The Pentecost that shook Jerusalem

[stmatthew]

I listened to a message today titled "The Pentecost That Shook Jerusalem". In it the preacher implied that the Pentecost of this day and age seems to be powerless compared to the Pentecost of the book of Acts. He said that their Pentecost was a powerful baptism that changed folks and causing them to stop sinning. He said that the Pentecost of that day gave folks power over the devil, power to heal the sick, make the lame walk, and make the blind to see. The Pentecost of that day took arrogant and haughty men and made them humble servants, full of Love.

I relate much to this message, as I continue to look for a city whose builder and maker is God. I am very disheartened by the American Church. Very little true Pentecostal power is present in most churches. Of Course, most will disagree with me, but I have seen the glory, and will not be swayed by the opposing views. Something is missing in our day.

Am I alone in my views?? Am I crazy?? Am I sadly mistaken?? Am I blind to the glory of God in the present church of America??

[nahkoe]

Am I alone in my views?? Am I crazy?? Am I sadly mistaken?? Am I blind to the glory of God in the present church of America??

No. No. No. No.

Unfortunately.

I relate much to this message, as I continue to look for a city whose builder and maker is God. I am very disheartened by the American Church. Very little true Pentecostal power is present in most churches. Of Course, most will disagree with me, but I have seen the glory, and will not be swayed by the opposing views. Something is missing in our day.

I'm with you 100% on this.

[Ron]

I listened to a message today titled "The Pentecost That Shook Jerusalem". In it the preacher implied that the Pentecost of this day and age seems to be powerless compared to the Pentecost of the book of Acts. He said that their Pentecost was a powerful baptism that changed folks and causing them to stop sinning. He said that the Pentecost of that day gave folks power over the devil, power to heal the sick, make the lame walk, and make the blind to see. The Pentecost of that day took arrogant and haughty men and made them humble servants, full of Love.

I relate much to this message, as I continue to look for a city whose builder and maker is God. I am very disheartened by the American Church. Very little true Pentecostal power is present in most churches. Of Course, most will disagree with me, but I have seen the glory, and will not be swayed by the opposing views. Something is missing in our day.

Am I alone in my views?? Am I crazy?? Am I sadly mistaken?? Am I blind to the glory of God in the present church of America??

No you are not.
It isn't just in America.

Those that really care need to go deeper than ever in 2008!

[Hoovie]

St matt.,

I certainly believe in holiness and that the church needs a huge dose of humility...

but I will say I believe our expectations of what the New testament church is or should be are somewhat different.

[Pastor Keith]

I listened to a message today titled "The Pentecost That Shook Jerusalem". In it the preacher implied that the Pentecost of this day and age seems to be powerless compared to the Pentecost of the book of Acts. He said that their Pentecost was a powerful baptism that changed folks and causing them to stop sinning. He said that the Pentecost of that day gave folks power over the devil, power to heal the sick, make the lame walk, and make the blind to see. The Pentecost of that day took arrogant and haughty men and made them humble servants, full of Love.

I relate much to this message, as I continue to look for a city whose builder and maker is God. I am very disheartened by the American Church. Very little true Pentecostal power is present in most churches. Of Course, most will disagree with me, but I have seen the glory, and will not be swayed by the opposing views. Something is missing in our day.

Am I alone in my views?? Am I crazy?? Am I sadly mistaken?? Am I blind to the glory of God in the present church of America??


I watched Perry Stone tonight, he had his father and TL Lowery of the Church of God, they sat and talked about what your post is stating. Not much power, little in the way of healing, over indulgence in material pursuits.

It was refeshing to see some Old Time Pentecost Ministers (granted COG) but irregardless passionate and experienced in the Power of God.

One thought they brought up was contrasting Elijah and Elisha, Elijah imparted before he departed, Elisha died without imparting, the power was still in this bones.

TL Lowery said that one of the issues with this generation is lack of Spiritual Fathers. I can identify with that, sorry I don't know what to do how to remedy it, but I think his point was good.

[Cindy]

But we have THE spiritual Father, maybe we just aren't paying enough attention to him. But I understand what you are saying, because we made it about ourselves instead of him.

[Pastor Keith]

But we have THE spiritual Father, maybe we just aren't paying enough attention to him. But I understand what you are saying, because we made it about ourselves instead of him.

I agree, and that is maybe why that I have never had one, because he is the way, the truth and the life. But they pointed out that many in the ranks of Pentecost are growing up in powerless churches and have not experienced the gifts of the Spirit and flowing in the power of God.

[PastorD]

I listened to a message today titled "The Pentecost That Shook Jerusalem". In it the preacher implied that the Pentecost of this day and age seems to be powerless compared to the Pentecost of the book of Acts. He said that their Pentecost was a powerful baptism that changed folks and causing them to stop sinning. He said that the Pentecost of that day gave folks power over the devil, power to heal the sick, make the lame walk, and make the blind to see. The Pentecost of that day took arrogant and haughty men and made them humble servants, full of Love.

I relate much to this message, as I continue to look for a city whose builder and maker is God. I am very disheartened by the American Church. Very little true Pentecostal power is present in most churches. Of Course, most will disagree with me, but I have seen the glory, and will not be swayed by the opposing views. Something is missing in our day.

Am I alone in my views?? Am I crazy?? Am I sadly mistaken?? Am I blind to the glory of God in the present church of America??



Not sure if it was same preacher you heard, but I have a tape of Jerry Jones preaching "What it took to shake Jerusalem." Great word.

[scotty]

I listened to a message today titled "The Pentecost That Shook Jerusalem". In it the preacher implied that the Pentecost of this day and age seems to be powerless compared to the Pentecost of the book of Acts. He said that their Pentecost was a powerful baptism that changed folks and causing them to stop sinning. He said that the Pentecost of that day gave folks power over the devil, power to heal the sick, make the lame walk, and make the blind to see. The Pentecost of that day took arrogant and haughty men and made them humble servants, full of Love.

I relate much to this message, as I continue to look for a city whose builder and maker is God. I am very disheartened by the American Church. Very little true Pentecostal power is present in most churches. Of Course, most will disagree with me, but I have seen the glory, and will not be swayed by the opposing views. Something is missing in our day.

Am I alone in my views?? Am I crazy?? Am I sadly mistaken?? Am I blind to the glory of God in the present church of America??


2 Timothy 3


1This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

We see the second verse right here on this board, and the 5th verse I beleive is what you refer too.
The coming is near my friends.
Here is my question; Does the following verse apply just to the day of Pentecost or does this speak of the end days? Is there a revival coming like we have not seen?


Acts 2; 14-21


14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words. 15 For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day. 16 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
17 ‘ And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.
18 And on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days;
And they shall prophesy.
19 I will show wonders in heaven above
And signs in the earth beneath:
Blood and fire and vapor of smoke.
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness,
And the moon into blood,
Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the LORD.
21 And it shall come to pass
That whoever calls on the name of the LORD
Shall be saved.’[b (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%202%20;&version=50;#fen-NKJV-26965b)]

[Fireside]

I heard SteveMcMullen preach this message several years ago.

[Barb]

I heard SteveMcMullen preach this message several years ago.

What are your thoughts, Elder?! :snowing

[Fireside]

What are your thoughts, Elder?! :snowing

It is a powerful and stirring message.

I agree that we have something missing among us in many places and in many respects.

However, I also think it is important that we recall that the Book of Acts covers a number of years. The miracles mentioned are certainly not every miracle that took place; but neither do I think we are totally bereft of miracle power.

I see miracles and healings at our church, not as often as we would like, but then, would it ever be enough?

I think the greatest difference between us and the early church is not in doctrine, or even im prayer and mireacles; but rather I believe it is in our attitude toward suffering.

They rejoiced to be counted worthy to suffer for His Name; we whine and beg for deliverance.

But then again, Calvary is a couple of thousand years old, and not real enough to us. Many of them saw it and were personally impacted by it.

Paul said this--

2Co 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

There is a cause and effect relationship between our attitude toward suffering, and the power of Christ's attitude toward us.

The power of Christ visits us, but often doesn't feel comfortable "resting" upon us because the element that bring brokenness, and that render us capable of being in the Presence of His glory without taking it unto our own selves, we reject.

You want my thoughts, there they are.

[philjones]

I listened to a message today titled "The Pentecost That Shook Jerusalem". In it the preacher implied that the Pentecost of this day and age seems to be powerless compared to the Pentecost of the book of Acts. He said that their Pentecost was a powerful baptism that changed folks and causing them to stop sinning. He said that the Pentecost of that day gave folks power over the devil, power to heal the sick, make the lame walk, and make the blind to see. The Pentecost of that day took arrogant and haughty men and made them humble servants, full of Love.

I relate much to this message, as I continue to look for a city whose builder and maker is God. I am very disheartened by the American Church. Very little true Pentecostal power is present in most churches. Of Course, most will disagree with me, but I have seen the glory, and will not be swayed by the opposing views. Something is missing in our day.

Am I alone in my views?? Am I crazy?? Am I sadly mistaken?? Am I blind to the glory of God in the present church of America??

St. Matt,

Just go back to the prophetic promise and the days preceeding the Acts 1 outpouring and see what the precursor was to the promise of Pentecostal Power. You will easily see why we do not have the results today. There will be no post Pentecost power without pre-Pentecost sacrifice and consecration.

[scotty]

Bump

Here is my question; Does the following verse apply just to the day of Pentecost or does this speak of the end days? Is there a revival coming like we have not seen?

Reply #9

[OneAccord]

Comparing the Pentecostal Movement of today to the Outpouring of the Holy Ghost at Pentecost is like comparing apples to oranges. They both have the same basic shape, but thats about it. The answer to whats the difference between Pentecostal and todays "Pentecost" is staring us straight in the face but, for whatever reason, we don't see it. Maybe we don't want to see it, or maybe we are spiritually blind to it. Or maybe its a combination of the two. So...whats different? Doctrine? No, by and large, the Gospel being preached today is very similar in many aspects to what was preached at Pentecost (At least in the Apostolic Movement). Holiness? A debateable subject for sure, but most everyone who believes in Acts 2, believes and practices holiness to some degree. Som emphasize the "outward appearance" while others place more emphasis on the "inner man", and rightfully so. Methods? No, the Apostles used the latest technology available to them (the written and spoken word) to proclaim the Gospel. We do, too. The Internet, radio, the printed page and, finally (at least among some), television.

So things are basically the same. So whats different? The answer is there in Acts 2:1. They were in One Accord. The were united (and not in name only) before, during and after Pentecost. Unity is what is missing. Look at us. We are divided. we are split. We are splintered. We have spots, wrinkles and blemishes. If you don't want to hear me, then listen to what Jesus said:

Jhn 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

The world does not believe our message, nor do they believe in Jesus because we, His representatives, are divided among ourselves. Pick a subject. Any subject. We are divided over it. Jesus also said Jhn 13:35 By this shall all [men] know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. Our love for one another has been replaced with a love of having preeminence over our brother (3Jo 1:9). "I'm right, you're wrong". "I'm more Apostolic than you" (Sorry, Bro. Dan).

Don't believe it? Look at the outpourings of the Holy Ghost in the Bible. What element is common among them? UNITY. Act 1:14, Act 2:1, Act 2:42, Act 4:32 and so on. Miracles, healings? The Bible speaks of a time when Jesus could do no mighty miracles because of unbelief. What is unbelief but when people are divided over what they believe? Division is killing us. Read what Paul says in 1 Cor. about the divisions that plague us. Specifically: 1Cr 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas [there is] among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? Go through the Bible, read what God says about the unity in His Church. I know, I know, some equate UNITY with ecumenicalism. They are of whom Paul speaks above. Watch the replies to this post. Some will probably denounce this as another attempt to unite people to sing "We are the world..." Now hear what Paul said, Gal 5:15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. UNITY comes from the Holy Spirit. Read Jesus' prayer in John 17. We are dying, we are committing spiritual suicide because we refuse to put our differences aside long enough to really hear what the Spirit is saying to the Church.

[Brother Price]

The state of the American Church is sadly found in these verses.

And to the angel (messenger) of the assembly (church) in Laodicea write: These are the words of the Amen, the trusty and faithful and true Witness, the Origin and Beginning and Author of God's creation: [Isa. 55:4; Prov. 8:22.] I know your [record of] works and what you are doing; you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm and neither cold nor hot, I will spew you out of My mouth! For you say, I am rich; I have prospered and grown wealthy, and I am in need of nothing; and you do not realize and understand that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked. [Hos. 12:8.] Therefore I counsel you to purchase from Me gold refined and tested by fire, that you may be [truly] wealthy, and white clothes to clothe you and to keep the shame of your nudity from being seen, and salve to put on your eyes, that you may see. Those whom I [dearly and tenderly] love, I tell their faults and convict and convince and reprove and chasten [I discipline and instruct them]. So be enthusiastic and in earnest and burning with zeal and repent [changing your mind and attitude]. [Prov. 3:12.] Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears and listens to and heeds My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will eat with him, and he [will eat] with Me. He who overcomes (is victorious), I will grant him to sit beside Me on My throne, as I Myself overcame (was victorious) and sat down beside My Father on His throne. He who is able to hear, let him listen to and heed what the [Holy] Spirit says to the assemblies (churches). {Revelation 3:14-22}

[philjones]

It is a powerful and stirring message.

I agree that we have something missing among us in many places and in many respects.

However, I also think it is important that we recall that the Book of Acts covers a number of years. The miracles mentioned are certainly not every miracle that took place; but neither do I think we are totally bereft of miracle power.

I see miracles and healings at our church, not as often as we would like, but then, would it ever be enough?

I think the greatest difference between us and the early church is not in doctrine, or even im prayer and mireacles; but rather I believe it is in our attitude toward suffering.

They rejoiced to be counted worthy to suffer for His Name; we whine and beg for deliverance.

But then again, Calvary is a couple of thousand years old, and not real enough to us. Many of them saw it and were personally impacted by it.

Paul said this--

2Co 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

There is a cause and effect relationship between our attitude toward suffering, and the power of Christ's attitude toward us.

The power of Christ visits us, but often doesn't feel comfortable "resting" upon us because the element that bring brokenness, and that render us capable of being in the Presence of His glory without taking it unto our own selves, we reject.

You want my thoughts, there they are.

I hadn't seen your post when I posted but I agree with your assessment. We are no longer living sacrificial lifestyles... we are so Laodecian in our attitude and expression of God's blessing that He is often relegated to the stoop while we have "church" without him! How sad that the Father remains in the Foyer!

[Barb]

It is a powerful and stirring message.

I agree that we have something missing among us in many places and in many respects.

However, I also think it is important that we recall that the Book of Acts covers a number of years. The miracles mentioned are certainly not every miracle that took place; but neither do I think we are totally bereft of miracle power.

I see miracles and healings at our church, not as often as we would like, but then, would it ever be enough?

I think the greatest difference between us and the early church is not in doctrine, or even im prayer and mireacles; but rather I believe it is in our attitude toward suffering.

They rejoiced to be counted worthy to suffer for His Name; we whine and beg for deliverance.

But then again, Calvary is a couple of thousand years old, and not real enough to us. Many of them saw it and were personally impacted by it.

Paul said this--

2Co 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

There is a cause and effect relationship between our attitude toward suffering, and the power of Christ's attitude toward us.

The power of Christ visits us, but often doesn't feel comfortable "resting" upon us because the element that bring brokenness, and that render us capable of being in the Presence of His glory without taking it unto our own selves, we reject.

You want my thoughts, there they are.

And great thoughts they are, Elder.

As I read them, my thoughts ran to the beginning of the Church...

There is something extraordinary about the beginning of something, be it your first day on the job, the first years of marriage, or whatever.

It's not always pleasant when the 'new' wears off and it takes great effort in most cases to keep it as fresh and alive as in the beginning, or to bring it back to where it was in the beginning.

Perhaps for some, the honeymoon is over and they are just existing in the place they are?!

I wonder... :star

[philjones]

The state of the American Church is sadly found in these verses.

Again, I had not seen this post when I last posted but, Bro. Price, I agree with your assessment as well.

[philjones]

Could one of the problems be our depth of Knowledge of HIM? Paul said Oh that I might now him (level 1), AND the power of the resurrection (level 2), AND the fellowship of HIS Suffering (Level 3) being made conformable unto HIS death.

Oh that I might REALLY KNOW HIM!

[Brother Price]

I am so saddened. We have so much wealth, so much goods, and we have so little love. We have no real fire, no real Pentecost, because we have had it so easy. We send missionaries around the world, and then they have to almost beg for funds. We send $1 for offerings for missions, and $10,000 for TV advertising. Please understand what this fat man is saying, and I feel this so strongly in my heart...

Where are the all night prayer meetings for revival? Where are the men and women bowed on the altar seeking His face? Where are the preachers dripping from sweat of prayer? Where are the seekers, the Bereans, those who want so much of God that if they do not get Him, it would be almost to the brink of their own demise?

We have so much, and have so little. We have a powerless Pentecost, and a hollow explosion. We have devastation, but no cleansing. I hope I am understood on this.

This past Sunday morning, while in worship, the Lord actually showed me a vision. I saw a dark city, and something that looked powerful was slowly engulfing that city. I then realized what it was. It was an explosion of monumental magnitude. Suddenly, it went from slow to fast, and became a mushroom cloud. I was able to walk into the explosion, and there was no continued explosion inside. It was hollow. It had no real power, no continued effect. It just destroyed.This is what I feel is now the state of the American pentecostal church, a form of godliness but denying the power thereof.

[Apprehended]

St. Matt,

Just go back to the prophetic promise and the days preceeding the Acts 1 outpouring and see what the precursor was to the promise of Pentecostal Power. You will easily see why we do not have the results today. There will be no post Pentecost power without pre-Pentecost sacrifice and consecration.

I've been reading this thread with little comment. This post jumped out at me as probably the most poignant of all statements made on this thread or else where.

It bears emphasizing. I recall that it was the love of God that drove a certain one to sacrifice, if I am not mistaken here. What love drives us? Then, where does that love drive us to?

Light of truth can be bright enough to blind but when the fire and heat of love is missing, there is no true Pentecost, only dead ritual apart from the cloven tongues upon each of us.

[OneAccord]

I am so saddened. We have so much wealth, so much goods, and we have so little love. We have no real fire, no real Pentecost, because we have had it so easy. We send missionaries around the world, and then they have to almost beg for funds. We send $1 for offerings for missions, and $10,000 for TV advertising. Please understand what this fat man is saying, and I feel this so strongly in my heart...

Where are the all night prayer meetings for revival? Where are the men and women bowed on the altar seeking His face? Where are the preachers dripping from sweat of prayer? Where are the seekers, the Bereans, those who want so much of God that if they do not get Him, it would be almost to the brink of their own demise?

We have so much, and have so little. We have a powerless Pentecost, and a hollow explosion. We have devastation, but no cleansing. I hope I am understood on this.

This past Sunday morning, while in worship, the Lord actually showed me a vision. I saw a dark city, and something that looked powerful was slowly engulfing that city. I then realized what it was. It was an explosion of monumental magnitude. Suddenly, it went from slow to fast, and became a mushroom cloud. I was able to walk into the explosion, and there was no continued explosion inside. It was hollow. It had no real power, no continued effect. It just destroyed.This is what I feel is now the state of the American pentecostal church, a form of godliness but denying the power thereof.

I agree that we don't give enough and we don't pray enough. I agree that our enduement of power bears little resemblence to that of the Day of Pentecost. But, we do give, we do pray and we do have some power, at least. But why not on the same level at that at Pentecost? Again, its because our giving is not united. Our prayer seems to run in every direction. And our power...need I say more. At Pentecost, their prayer, the every activity was for a single purpose. Ours is not. Corporately, they waited for 1 thing, the promise of the father to be filled with the Holy Ghost.

We cannot expect the same results until we move beyond the stage of divsion. The brother here who stated over and over again, "the UPC needs a Healer" had a point. But he, like the rest of us missed the mark. The UPC doen't need a Healer. The Body needs a healer. We need a healer. And that healer is found in the prayer of Jesus. "that they may be one..." Until we deal with how that can be accomplished we will continue to be a facade. A shell. No matter how much we splash around in the waters of water baptism. No matter how much we speak in tongues and debate all this doctrinal... we will continue to be wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: Rev 3:17

[Nahum]

Wonderful thread.

[OneAccord]

see what I mean. I last posted on this thread at 10:13 and not one comment regarding UNITY. Plenty on other threads about the rifts regarding water baptism, but known about UNITY. We're dancing all around it, but we refuse to consider that, maybe, just maybe, we don't see Pentecost results, because we enjoy the fight, we love the debate more than we love our brother. Maybe we are so far removed from what God intended in John 17 that we have become spiritually blind. And maybe, we just don't know, or want to know what UNITY is. Oh, we are to 'contend for the faith". Yes, but with each other. Infighting? Is this what God intends? Didn't he say something about being One in Christ? In fact He said quite alot about it. We were just too busy fighting to hear it.

[stmatthew]

I've been reading this thread with little comment. This post jumped out at me as probably the most poignant of all statements made on this thread or else where.

It bears emphasizing. I recall that it was the love of God that drove a certain one to sacrifice, if I am not mistaken here. What love drives us? Then, where does that love drive us to?

Light of truth can be bright enough to blind but when the fire and heat of love is missing, there is no true Pentecost, only dead ritual apart from the cloven tongues upon each of us.

The preacher, which was Bro Steve McMullen, pointed this out as well. He stated that the Feast of Pentecost had become only a ritual for the Jews of that day. The way I see it, the day of Pentecost was the day that substance came ("fully come") and replaced shadow.

[Thad]

The preacher, which was Bro Steve McMullen, pointed this out as well. He stated that the Feast of Pentecost had become only a ritual for the Jews of that day. The way I see it, the day of Pentecost was the day that substance came ("fully come") and replaced shadow.

Matt,I agree with your initial post, and not to be disrespectful but where is the same books of Acts power found amongst Steve's group?? Is anyone getting heald by his shadow ? instead of preaching it why not live the example?? If the UCs was really having it like ACTS i'd be the first one to get behind them.

[Thad]

I am so saddened. We have so much wealth, so much goods, and we have so little love. We have no real fire, no real Pentecost, because we have had it so easy. We send missionaries around the world, and then they have to almost beg for funds. We send $1 for offerings for missions, and $10,000 for TV advertising. Please understand what this fat man is saying, and I feel this so strongly in my heart...

Where are the all night prayer meetings for revival? Where are the men and women bowed on the altar seeking His face? Where are the preachers dripping from sweat of prayer? Where are the seekers, the Bereans, those who want so much of God that if they do not get Him, it would be almost to the brink of their own demise?

We have so much, and have so little. We have a powerless Pentecost, and a hollow explosion. We have devastation, but no cleansing. I hope I am understood on this.

This past Sunday morning, while in worship, the Lord actually showed me a vision. I saw a dark city, and something that looked powerful was slowly engulfing that city. I then realized what it was. It was an explosion of monumental magnitude. Suddenly, it went from slow to fast, and became a mushroom cloud. I was able to walk into the explosion, and there was no continued explosion inside. It was hollow. It had no real power, no continued effect. It just destroyed.This is what I feel is now the state of the American pentecostal church, a form of godliness but denying the power thereof.


Bill, I use to lament over all this but i've come to place where I don't anymore. This is God's church and he knows what he is doing.
We all know the church is lukewarm but we need to just rest in God.
He'll bring it around in his way and time you watch and see.

[scotty]

see what I mean. I last posted on this thread at 10:13 and not one comment regarding UNITY. Plenty on other threads about the rifts regarding water baptism, but known about UNITY. We're dancing all around it, but we refuse to consider that, maybe, just maybe, we don't see Pentecost results, because we enjoy the fight, we love the debate more than we love our brother. Maybe we are so far removed from what God intended in John 17 that we have become spiritually blind. And maybe, we just don't know, or want to know what UNITY is. Oh, we are to 'contend for the faith". Yes, but with each other. Infighting? Is this what God intends? Didn't he say something about being One in Christ? In fact He said quite alot about it. We were just too busy fighting to hear it.


PREACH!!!!!!!:preach

[stmatthew]

Matt,I agree with your initial post, and not to be disrespectful but where is the same books of Acts power found amongst Steve's group?? Is anyone getting heald by his shadow ? instead of preaching it why not live the example?? If the UCs was really having it like ACTS i'd be the first one to get behind them.

Thad,

He levied the accusation that those present were in the clutches of ritualism. His message was a challenge to those present, that they where not showing the fruits or humility that the early church showed.

[OneAccord]

Bill, I use to lament over all this but i've come to place where I don't anymore. This is God's church and he knows what he is doing.
We all know the church is lukewarm but we need to just rest in God.
He'll bring it around in his way and time you watch and see.

I couldn't disagree more, Brother. I know what you are saying, but, "rest"? Watch and see? Shouldn't it be "watch and pray"?. The disciples slept while Jesus prayed for UNITY in the Church. We are asleep, resting, waiting for Him to do the work of bringing us together as one. What is our reponsibilty. Just rest? waith. Jesus told the disciples in Acts 1to wait for God's promise. But they didn't wait. They prayed. They sought God. They came together as one. No we don't need to wait. God is waiting for us.

It was said that "this is God's church..." Is it really? Does it bear any resemblence to the NT church? Or, more importantly, with all of its blemishes and spots and wrinkles, does it look any thing like the Church Jesus is coming back to recieve unto Himself? Christ isn't divided, and neither is HIS church. It is United... and thats not just a word, its a state of being. It is a truly United Pentecostal Church

[Thad]

I couldn't disagree more, Brother. I know what you are saying, but, "rest"? Watch and see? Shouldn't it be "watch and pray"?. The disciples slept while Jesus prayed for UNITY in the Church. We are asleep, resting, waiting for Him to do the work of bringing us together as one. What is our reponsibilty. Just rest? waith. Jesus told the disciples in Acts 1to wait for God's promise. But they didn't wait. They prayed. They sought God. They came together as one. No we don't need to wait. God is waiting for us.

It was said that "this is God's church..." Is it really? Does it bear any resemblence to the NT church? Or, more importantly, with all of its blemishes and spots and wrinkles, does it look any thing like the Church Jesus is coming back to recieve unto Himself? Christ isn't divided, and neither is HIS church. It is United... and thats not just a word, its a state of being. It is a truly United Pentecostal Church


when i used the word "rest",i was meaning that we are going to have to TRUST in God for what is to come. I agree we should continue prayer absolutley and i also agree that we are alseep but i also believe that the church of America has gone beyond a point that without divine intervention, we are done. We have heard all the preaching,warning,we have the resources yet we remain the same. now it's up to God to turn it around.
DIdn't Jesus say that he would seperate the wheat from the tares ? therefore, it's not my job. This is indeed God's church and he has it all in control

[nahkoe]

The power of Christ visits us, but often doesn't feel comfortable "resting" upon us because the element that bring brokenness, and that render us capable of being in the Presence of His glory without taking it unto our own selves, we reject.

Good thoughts, Brother.

This is so very, very true.

[Apprehended]

The preacher, which was Bro Steve McMullen, pointed this out as well. He stated that the Feast of Pentecost had become only a ritual for the Jews of that day. The way I see it, the day of Pentecost was the day that substance came ("fully come") and replaced shadow.

Here I might take a slight disagreement. I personally do not see Pentecost as the substance of the shadow but the person of Jesus in stead. He fullfilled all types and shadows, in my opinion.

I believe this is where Pentecostals and Apostolics get derailed in that assumption. We go wrong in centering in upon the Apostles rather than upon Jesus. He is the way...we must go HIS WAY. We must live HIS life. We will ever flounder until we get back to the GOSPELS and learn how to become imitators of JESUS. There is a reason why the Apostles never told anyone to take their yoke upon them and learn of them. Our way and life would have been flawed to imitate them rather than become imitators of Jesus.

We need to get back to JESUS and HIS gospel. We need to practive Jesus. We need to learn of Jesus. We need to hear Jesus, eat Jesus, see Jesus, love Jesus, and let Jesus fill our minds, our hearts our spirits and vision.

We have gone astray by the emphasis that we have placed upon certain things. I feel that this is a trick of the enemy.

[Sister Alvear]

America is a great land...so with that said I will say more.

We missionaries have much to thank the American church for...prayers, offerings etc...Yet in many churches there is little flow of the spirit...we pat our selves on the back how holy we are yet our earth brother sits in complete spiritual darkenss...
We ok our spendthrift ways by giving 100 dollars to the missionary...

My dear ones America will shake...Her proud will fall...and then we will see the real christians...
America is drunk on pleasure and desire...yes the UC´s too...

Shall I say more? I think not...

[Thad]

America is a great land...so with that said I will say more.

We missionaries have much to thank the American church for...prayers, offerins etc...Yet in many churches there is little flow of the spirit...we pat our selves on the back how holy we are yet our earth brother sits in complete spiritual darkenss...
We ok our spendthrift ways by giving 100 dollars to the missionary...

My dear ones America will shake...Her proud will fall...and then we will see the real christians...
America is drunk on pleasure and desire...yes the UC´s too...

Shall I say more? I think not...

Wooooooooow! now that was a mouth full and i could not agree more!

you are right on

[Apprehended]

America is a great land...so with that said I will say more.

We missionaries have much to thank the American church for...prayers, offerins etc...Yet in many churches there is little flow of the spirit...we pat our selves on the back how holy we are yet our earth brother sits in complete spiritual darkenss...
We ok our spendthrift ways by giving 100 dollars to the missionary...

My dear ones America will shake...Her proud will fall...and then we will see the real christians...
America is drunk on pleasure and desire...yes the UC´s too...

Shall I say more? I think not...

Right.

Every word said here is right.

[Sister Alvear]

my heart is heavy...my spirit weeps to walk into our churches in America today and see them so focused on self...

and yes I know some really sacrifice...

[Thad]

my heart is heavy...my spirit weeps to walk into our churches in America today and see them so focused on self...

and yes I know some really sacrifice...


Alright Prophetess! tell it

The days for Man's kingdom is coming to a close here in the states Sis Alvear- handwriting is on the wall. there are some things that are going to be exposed in the days to come that have been hidden that is going to rock the world of Pentecost

[nahkoe]

I was asked to post this by the person I messaged it to after reading this thread.

Once upon a time, there was this obnoxious, mouthy kid. This obnoxious, mouthy kid somehow got the idea that the Bible is true, and wondered why you don't see now what you saw then. This mouthy, obnoxious kid, started seeking answers from God. And found them. As this revival exploded through the youth around this obnoxious, mouthy kid, things started happening. The power of God would fall, people were healed, set free, CHANGED.

When did this happen? When the kids joined hands to pray with no regard for time or anything else. Someone's feeling down? Everyone circle up, let's pray. No matter what was the reason, sometimes there wasn't a reason other than just wanting to commune with God, God showed up. Powerfully.

You see, no one had told these kids you don't fall on your face crying out to God while you're praying. No one had told these kids it's not ok to weep in the presence of God, to cry out, to sob, to EXPECT the presence and power of God to be available. No one had told these kids it's a rare thing to be so overwhelmed by God that you fall to the floor under His power. So it wasn't rare.

The day someone told these kids all of the above, is the day something died inside of me. This is the restoration I'm looking for in 2008. It scares me, I know the cost. Unity is part of it, Coonskinner hit another big part of it, the cost is complete abandonment of self. There is no hanging onto anything, nothing else can matter at all, not just "not more than God". That, is a scary place to consider being as a single mom with 4 kids, vs a mouthy, obnoxious 16 year old kid. One thing I know though, when you can abandon yourself completely, it's not so difficult to be in unity with others. It doesn't matter if they have tattoos, short hair, long hair, piercings, pants, smell like smoke (all of the above in our group of kids, at least when we got started..), the key is in unity. When you abandon yourself totally to what God wants, surrender all your thoughts to His, you see people the way He does. All the rest of the stuff I mentioned no longer matters then. Trust me, when a kid falls out shaking and spends 45 min, 2 hours...on the floor weeping, they get up changed. The other stuff, changes. And they learn to expect God to touch them when they need it, and they learn that they always need it.

And I turn away from this message sad. I am not ready to give what I need to. And yet I fully recognize that I always need a touch from God. Every day since I've been back, I've thought on this. Every. Single. Day.

[Scott Hutchinson]

Alot of so-called Spirit Filled churches have a lack of the manifest presence of God and there is lack of brother kindness in churches today.
Also I think real heart felt commitment to Christ is generally lacking,and true Bible study skill in alot of places is lacking.

[OneAccord]

It seems on this thread we are playing horse shoes. We're getting close to the answer but ...we're not quite there. a lack of prayer. Brotherly kindness. Consecration. All of these are true. But, they all stem from one root problem. The problem: we don't have what they had at Pentecost. We have the tongues. We have the preaching. We have prayer and we have Acts 2:38. And, it seems, we are content with that. But "one thing thou lackest..." We are divided. We are divided over everything you can name. Until we do something about that, all we can hope to do is look back and remember the good old days.

The reason no one seems to have anything to say about this lack of unity is that they don't quite understand what the term means. Maybe because we, as a movement, have never reallly experienced. We've lived in a fractured movement our entire lives, so, this split and divided church is all we know. But there is more. There is UNITY. There is the UNITY of the SPIRIT. Ignoring the answer, brethren, won't make the question go away.

[Pastor Keith]

It is a powerful and stirring message.

I agree that we have something missing among us in many places and in many respects.

However, I also think it is important that we recall that the Book of Acts covers a number of years. The miracles mentioned are certainly not every miracle that took place; but neither do I think we are totally bereft of miracle power.

I see miracles and healings at our church, not as often as we would like, but then, would it ever be enough?

I think the greatest difference between us and the early church is not in doctrine, or even im prayer and mireacles; but rather I believe it is in our attitude toward suffering.

They rejoiced to be counted worthy to suffer for His Name; we whine and beg for deliverance.

But then again, Calvary is a couple of thousand years old, and not real enough to us. Many of them saw it and were personally impacted by it.

Paul said this--

2Co 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

There is a cause and effect relationship between our attitude toward suffering, and the power of Christ's attitude toward us.

The power of Christ visits us, but often doesn't feel comfortable "resting" upon us because the element that bring brokenness, and that render us capable of being in the Presence of His glory without taking it unto our own selves, we reject.

You want my thoughts, there they are.


I agree with much of what you say about this subject, you and I are practioners, but somewhere people do have to wipe the tears off there faces, freshen up and go out to where the needs are are start giving the power away. I can't tell you the times that we prayed as a group, cried, called out to the Lord for fresh power, conviction, holiness, make a new commitment and for the Lord to speak back to us that we need to Go and if we go he would confirm.

I think mostly as OP's we are good at repentance (brokeness), good at making altar commitments, but we are not very good at the going part, taking Jesus wherever we are, and in whatever situation we are doing.

I think as a movement we need to recapture the frontier mentality, get out of notion that if we can produce a great service, in a great building then surely the harvest will come, but as Jesus said the meat is in the streets. Our harvest is still in the fields.

[Nahum]

Could it be that we are not willing to "turn aside" as Moses did in order to see and hear what God was up to?

We are so wrapped up in what everyone else is doing we don't even take time to find out what God is doing, and/or what he wants for/from us. Our view is earthly and horizontal instead of heavenly and vertical.

Every time I start to feel a distance between me and Jesus I pull out EM Bounds articles on prayer. He seemed to have an uncanny knack for positioning himself to hear from God.

I crave that so desperately.

[Pastor Keith]

Could it be that we are not willing to "turn aside" as Moses did in order to see and hear what God was up to?

We are so wrapped up in what everyone else is doing we don't even take time to find out what God is doing, and/or what he wants for/from us. Our view is earthly and horizontal instead of heavenly and vertical.

Every time I start to feel a distance between me and Jesus I pull out EM Bounds articles on prayer. He seemed to have an uncanny knack for positioning himself to hear from God.

I crave that so desperately.

AW Tozer does it for me.

[Nahum]

AW Tozer does it for me.
Absolutely.

Funny how the answer to so many issues and questions always seems to come back to prayer.

[Pastor Keith]

I agree with much of what you say about this subject, you and I are practioners, but somewhere people do have to wipe the tears off there faces, freshen up and go out to where the needs are are start giving the power away. I can't tell you the times that we prayed as a group, cried, called out to the Lord for fresh power, conviction, holiness, make a new commitment and for the Lord to speak back to us that we need to Go and if we go he would confirm.

I think mostly as OP's we are good at repentance (brokeness), good at making altar commitments, but we are not very good at the going part, taking Jesus wherever we are, and in whatever situation we are doing.

I think as a movement we need to recapture the frontier mentality, get out of notion that if we can produce a great service, in a great building then surely the harvest will come, but as Jesus said the meat is in the streets. Our harvest is still in the fields.


Bump for Coonskinner

[Mrs. LPW]

St. Matt,

Just go back to the prophetic promise and the days preceeding the Acts 1 outpouring and see what the precursor was to the promise of Pentecostal Power. You will easily see why we do not have the results today. There will be no post Pentecost power without pre-Pentecost sacrifice and consecration.

I concur

[philjones]

I concur

Thank you for your concurrence! :)

[Mrs. LPW]

I agree that we don't give enough and we don't pray enough. I agree that our enduement of power bears little resemblence to that of the Day of Pentecost. But, we do give, we do pray and we do have some power, at least. But why not on the same level at that at Pentecost? Again, its because our giving is not united. Our prayer seems to run in every direction. And our power...need I say more. At Pentecost, their prayer, the every activity was for a single purpose. Ours is not. Corporately, they waited for 1 thing, the promise of the father to be filled with the Holy Ghost.

We cannot expect the same results until we move beyond the stage of divsion. The brother here who stated over and over again, "the UPC needs a Healer" had a point. But he, like the rest of us missed the mark. The UPC doen't need a Healer. The Body needs a healer. We need a healer. And that healer is found in the prayer of Jesus. "that they may be one..." Until we deal with how that can be accomplished we will continue to be a facade. A shell. No matter how much we splash around in the waters of water baptism. No matter how much we speak in tongues and debate all this doctrinal... we will continue to be wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: Rev 3:17

Can anyone tell me how to take a quote and start another thread with it? I'd like to address this without hijacking the thread completely.

[nahkoe]

Can anyone tell me how to take a quote and start another thread with it? I'd like to address this without hijacking the thread completely.

I just reply here, copy the code, exit before I submit the reply then start a new thread and paste the code into it.

Or, you can just hijack this thread since it's not getting enough airtime as it is. :rudolph

[OneAccord]

Absolutely.

Funny how the answer to so many issues and questions always seems to come back to prayer.

I agree, I guess its because everything starts with prayer.

However...in the issue of this tread, it has to go back beyond prayer. Since the thread is about "Pentecost", we have to go back to Pentecost to find whats missing. Prayer, like preaching, should have a purpose. How many times have we heard ill-prepared sermons that seems to have no purpose? No direction? Preaching, like prayer is described by Paul: 1Cr 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: James put it this way: Jam 4:3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume [it] upon your lusts. Praying without purpose falls flat.

Our search for Pentecostal Power will lead us to praying with purpose. And, that purpose is found in Acts 1:14- These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren. See how "being in one accord" preceeds prayer? If we are to seek God for something as a group, we must do so in UNITY. But, it seems we are skirting the heart of the issue. Everything in this thread is close to the mark, but UNITY is a dead ringer. Without that we will never, ever. achieve anything like Pentecost. Because we still ignore the most prevalent factor of Pentecost. Organizations will rise and fall. Manuals will be printed that onlt achieves the result of dividing the Body of Christ further still. Prayer will last a season. But UNITY will last until Jesus comes because it doesn't come through man-made programs and events. It comes through and by the Holy Ghost. And it seems that, with many here being affilated with a group that boldly declares itself UNITED, the very word is being avoided like a dirty word. Thats odd to me since we have a mandate to endeavor to keep the very thing we seem to be avoiding like the plague. Is it just me...or is there something very wrong with this picture?

[stmatthew]

I think it may be that we have become to proud to pray. Prayer means that we are admitting that we can't do it.


One thing I know about ALL the old timers and their great moves of God. They "sold out" and followed Jesus. They did not hold on to anything this world had to offer. We want the Glory, but only on Sundays and Wednesdays. The rest of the week we want to play video games, go out to eat with friends, watch tv, go out to eat with friends, go to the movies, go out to eat with friends, go to the theater, go out to eat with friends, go golfing with our preacher friends, go out to eat with friends. I think you get me point. To truely have ALL of God, we are going to have to empty out everything else so he has ALL of us.

[nahkoe]

I think it may be that we have become to proud to pray. Prayer means that we are admitting that we can't do it.


One thing I know about ALL the old timers and their great moves of God. They "sold out" and followed Jesus. They did not hold on to anything this world had to offer. We want the Glory, but only on Sundays and Wednesdays. The rest of the week we want to play video games, go out to eat with friends, watch tv, go out to eat with friends, go to the movies, go out to eat with friends, go to the theater, go out to eat with friends, go golfing with our preacher friends, go out to eat with friends. I think you get me point. To truely have ALL of God, we are going to have to empty out everything else so he has ALL of us.

This is exactly what I meant when I said nothing else can matter at all, not just "more than God". I hear so often that nothing can matter more than God. That's true, and good enough if you just want to get by, I suppose. Good chance you can even do more than get by really. But if you want power in your life, if you really want to see what God wants to do, NOTHING ELSE CAN MATTER AT ALL.

I hear people speak of being consumed by God and wonder if they really know what that means? I wonder if I really know what that means. And, this is in no way to discredit what they're saying, I'm truly curious. If someone knows, teach me. I'm really not sure I do know, but something within me wants to know.

[Fireside]

Bump for Coonskinner

I agree with you pretty much, Keith.

God is drawn to empty, and He moves most often when we obey His command to go.

They went, He confirmed.

[J-Roc]

I think it may be that we have become to proud to pray. Prayer means that we are admitting that we can't do it.


One thing I know about ALL the old timers and their great moves of God. They "sold out" and followed Jesus. They did not hold on to anything this world had to offer. We want the Glory, but only on Sundays and Wednesdays. The rest of the week we want to play video games, go out to eat with friends, watch tv, go out to eat with friends, go to the movies, go out to eat with friends, go to the theater, go out to eat with friends, go golfing with our preacher friends, go out to eat with friends. I think you get me point. To truely have ALL of God, we are going to have to empty out everything else so he has ALL of us.


And I think if many of us are honest with ourselves...the time we spend in forum land...this can be more excessive than everything you listed for some of us.

[Pastor Keith]

I think it may be that we have become to proud to pray. Prayer means that we are admitting that we can't do it.


One thing I know about ALL the old timers and their great moves of God. They "sold out" and followed Jesus. They did not hold on to anything this world had to offer. We want the Glory, but only on Sundays and Wednesdays. The rest of the week we want to play video games, go out to eat with friends, watch tv, go out to eat with friends, go to the movies, go out to eat with friends, go to the theater, go out to eat with friends, go golfing with our preacher friends, go out to eat with friends. I think you get me point. To truely have ALL of God, we are going to have to empty out everything else so he has ALL of us.


Sounds like Laodecia doesn't it.

[stmatthew]

And I think if many of us are honest with ourselves...the time we spend in forum land...this can be more excessive than everything you listed for some of us.

You are correct.

I guess in the end, the question is, "Are we really hungry enough?". If we fill ourselves with things other than God 9natural things), can we really expect to get hungry for spiritual things?

[philjones]

You are correct.

I guess in the end, the question is, "Are we really hungry enough?". If we fill ourselves with things other than God 9natural things), can we really expect to get hungry for spiritual things?

Matt,

For some time I have been hung up between two spirits, trying to decide which is the most detrimental to the church as well as to my own life. Those two spirits are the spirit of contentment and the spirit of discontentment. I have almost decided the spirit of contentment may well be the worst of the two. We have become content with our increase both naturally and spiritually and as a result we seek nothing greater than we currently possess.

[Mrs. LPW]

Matt,

For some time I have been hung up between two spirits, trying to decide which is the most detrimental to the church as well as to my own life. Those two spirits are the spirit of contentment and the spirit of discontentment. I have almost decided the spirit of contentment may well be the worst of the two. We have become content with our increase both naturally and spiritually and as a result we seek nothing greater than we currently possess.

I concur... again.

[Mrs. LPW]

We cannot expect the same results until we move beyond the stage of divsion. The brother here who stated over and over again, "the UPC needs a Healer" had a point. But he, like the rest of us missed the mark. The UPC doen't need a Healer. The Body needs a healer. We need a healer. And that healer is found in the prayer of Jesus. "that they may be one..." Until we deal with how that can be accomplished we will continue to be a facade. A shell. No matter how much we splash around in the waters of water baptism. No matter how much we speak in tongues and debate all this doctrinal... we will continue to be wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: Rev 3:17

Hijacking in progress.

Unity is a very key issue. They know that we are His disciples because of our love one for another... and in Christiandom today there are a hundred different groups with a hundred different teachings. (more actually)

So, One God, Jesus Name Baptising, Holy Ghost filled, Holy living people, how do WE, the ones who hold to the original teaching and pattern of the Apostles, strike the balance? How do we hold to the doctrine that is extremely important, while showing the love of God to our fellow "believers".
So that those in our communities and cities can believe and be baptised?

I asked my husband this... his answer was that we not fight with the other denom's but that we continue to preach, and continue to teach home Bible studies, continue to show love and light at the same time.. and God will look after the disunity or perceived disunity.

One thing I know One Accord... Unity is key, but so is Truth. And you've got to have both. But we can't walk together for very long unless we agree.

[Esther]

A lot of good post, but I have to throw my two cents in. I believe the problem is love or rather the lack there of.

When we have LOVE for one another we can have UNITY.

When we have LOVE for God we will want to KNOW HIM.

When we KNOW HIM we will want to be like Him.

When we have LOVE for one another we will pray for them with compassion. COMPASSION moves God.

When we have COMPASSION we will have healings.

When we LOVE God move than ourselves we will commune with Him. (PRAYER)

When we pray more we will read His WORD and know the TRUTH.

When we really, really LOVE HIM we will lose our love for the world.

Yes we have love now. Love for wealth, love for power, love for fame, we are full of pride. The down fall of satan was PRIDE.


To KNOW HIM is to be like Him as much as possible.

LOVE was born in a stable. Humble.

LOVE went to the cross. Sacrafrice.

LOVE rose in triump and power.

LOVE will catch you on fire.

Again, there are a lot of good post on this thread, but I had to add my thoughts.

Thanks and Lord Bless.

[stmatthew]

I know this is going to go against a lot of folks thinking, but Love is the "fruit". The problem is in the "root". When we get the "root" right, the fruit will grow and mature naturally.

One of the commandments is that we are not to have any other gods before the One True God. Jesus summed this up when he states that, "thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this [is] the first commandment." As long as we love the world more than we love him, we will not see the Glory. As long as we refuse to give our whole selves to Him, and sow Spiritual things into our lives instead of natural, we will remain a carnal church, and see little of Gods power manifested in our meetings.

[Esther]

I know this is going to go against a lot of folks thinking, but Love is the "fruit". The problem is in the "root". When we get the "root" right, the fruit will grow and mature naturally.

One of the commandments is that we are not to have any other gods before the One True God. Jesus summed this up when he states that, "thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this [is] the first commandment." As long as we love the world more than we love him, we will not see the Glory. As long as we refuse to give our whole selves to Him, and sow Spiritual things into our lives instead of natural, we will remain a carnal church, and see little of Gods power manifested in our meetings.

This statement is so true.

We also should remember God is Love.

[OneAccord]

Hijacking in progress.

Unity is a very key issue. They know that we are His disciples because of our love one for another... and in Christiandom today there are a hundred different groups with a hundred different teachings. (more actually)

So, One God, Jesus Name Baptising, Holy Ghost filled, Holy living people, how do WE, the ones who hold to the original teaching and pattern of the Apostles, strike the balance? How do we hold to the doctrine that is extremely important, while showing the love of God to our fellow "believers".
So that those in our communities and cities can believe and be baptised?

I asked my husband this... his answer was that we not fight with the other denom's but that we continue to preach, and continue to teach home Bible studies, continue to show love and light at the same time.. and God will look after the disunity or perceived disunity.

One thing I know One Accord... Unity is key, but so is Truth. And you've got to have both. But we can't walk together for very long unless we agree.

There is no unity outside of truth. Unity that is based on anything but truth is... denominationalism and ecumenalism. They require a departure from truth rather than a movement toward truth. But, and this is important to understanding unity, that doesn't necessarily mean we will always believe everything exactly alike, nor will we all say the same thing. Oh, I know, 1 Cor tells us "that you all speak the same thing..." but a close look at those passages show that the basic message of the church has to be centered on one thing. "The preaching of the Cross..." We talk here of the "root" and getting back to "the Apostles Doctrine". It all stems from the Cross. The central message of the Apostles Doctrine isn't baptism or Godhead, it was the Cross. Baptism and Godhead are importnat, but they should not be our Central Message. That should be Jesus and His sacrifice to purchase our salvation.

Look at history. Azusa Street happened because of UNITY. The UPC came into being, because of UNITY. Every move of God is based on a unified spirit. Without it we are but a "form of godliness" preaching a message that will win few, if any, to the Lord. Until we begin exploring what Jesus meant when He spoke of our being ONE, the world will continue to ignore us as a bunch of people who can't get along among themselves. Thats what Jesus said: Jhn 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

But, its obvious.... there is little to no, interest in UNITY, even though it is the very hallmark of God's true church.

[stmatthew]

There is no unity outside of truth. Unity that is based on anything but truth is... denominationalism and ecumenalism. They require a departure from truth rather than a movement toward truth. But, and this is important to understanding unity, that doesn't necessarily mean we will always believe everything exactly alike, nor will we all say the same thing. Oh, I know, 1 Cor tells us "that you all speak the same thing..." but a close look at those passages show that the basic message of the church has to be centered on one thing. "The preaching of the Cross..." We talk here of the "root" and getting back to "the Apostles Doctrine". It all stems from the Cross. The central message of the Apostles Doctrine isn't baptism or Godhead, it was the Cross. Baptism and Godhead are importnat, but they should not be our Central Message. That should be Jesus and His sacrifice to purchase our salvation.

Look at history. Azusa Street happened because of UNITY. The UPC came into being, because of UNITY. Every move of God is based on a unified spirit. Without it we are but a "form of godliness" preaching a message that will win few, if any, to the Lord. Until we begin exploring what Jesus meant when He spoke of our being ONE, the world will continue to ignore us as a bunch of people who can't get along among themselves. Thats what Jesus said: Jhn 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

But, its obvious.... there is little to no, interest in UNITY, even though it is the very hallmark of God's true church.

Again, I know I am going against the tide, but UNITY is the "fruit". The problem is in the "root". When we get the "root" right, the fruit will grow and mature naturally.