TULSA WEBSITE UPDATE:Benefits of Joining,address,names added and subtracted,etc

[Minister_WD]

Looks like they updated the new Tulsa org. website...

http://www.worldwidepf.com/page.php?ID=19

links are on the bottom right

They added the mailing address, purpose statement and benefits of joining

Also, Wayne Budgell, Benny Dobson and David Smith are not on the list anymore

David Smith (ultra con from Maine)very involved with the group that split off from Tekle in Ethiopia

Jeff Dyches and Paul Elder have been added to the list

Interestingly, Chris Craft is no longer on any committees

http://www.worldwidepf.com/page.php?ID=6

[Thad]

why were some names removed ????

[rgcraig]

why were some names removed ????

Because they were added without their knowledge was the assumption.

[Mrs. LPW]

Kinda glad to hear Budgell and Smith aren't there. I'm hoping they won't do their own thing.

[Thad]

Because they were added without their knowledge was the assumption.


you really think so? I kinda doubt they didn't know

[rgcraig]

you really think so? I kinda doubt they didn't know

You'd hope they knew, but that was the "talk" here.

[LaGirl]

why were some names removed ????

is this the same david smith that was at your church a few months ago?

[Thad]

is this the same david smith that was at your church a few months ago?



no

[LaGirl]

no

okay...i didnt think he was from maine.

[philjones]

no

Thad, did you have the David Smith from Eastwood? Mr.Crazy with Energy to burn? the David Smith I am referring to is tremendous at encouraging faith in the hearts of hearers to receive the Holy Ghost. If David Smith can't pray you through to the Holy Ghost you may be dead and need to call NLYP! :D

[Thad]

Thad, did you have the David Smith from Eastwood? Mr.Crazy with Energy to burn? the David Smith I am referring to is tremendous at encouraging faith in the hearts of hearers to receive the Holy Ghost. If David Smith can't pray you through to the Holy Ghost you may be dead and need to call NLYP! :D

Yes

now in reference to NLYP, was that spiritually speaking?????? :christmoose

[philjones]

Yes

now in reference to NLYP, was that spiritually speaking?????? :christmoose

AHHH No.. I was speaking of "The UnderTaker!" :)

[Thad]

AHHH No.. I was speaking of "The UnderTaker!" :)


ummm ...im telling Dan that you think he is dead spiritually

[philjones]

ummm ...im telling Dan that you think he is dead spiritually

Now, Thad, you know that is not what I said or what I meant. :D

I was simply saying that if DS could not pray you through then you were dead and need Dan to bury you!

But, that said, if you want to tell Dan I said that I would love it. He might actually call me for something other than my mom's phone number! :D:penguin

[Thad]

Now, Thad, you know that is not what I said or what I meant. :D

I was simply saying that if DS could not pray you through then you were dead and need Dan to bury you!

But, that said, if you want to tell Dan I said that I would love it. He might actually call me for something other than my mom's phone number! :D:penguin


He'll call anyone for anything !!! lol lol lol

[ChicagoPastor]

Maybe I'm clicking on the wrong thing but I clicked on the linke provided, when I got to the website I clicked on the committe and I still see Chris Craft's name on the youth committe and TLC on the council as well...

i thought they weren't leaving????

[pelathais]

Looks like they updated the new Tulsa org. website...

http://www.worldwidepf.com/page.php?ID=19

links are on the bottom right

They added the mailing address, purpose statement and benefits of joining

Also, Wayne Budgell, Benny Dobson and David Smith are not on the list anymore

David Smith (ultra con from Maine)very involved with the group that split off from Tekle in Ethiopia

Jeff Dyches and Paul Elder have been added to the list

Interestingly, Chris Craft is no longer on any committees

http://www.worldwidepf.com/page.php?ID=6
We've still got the 6x50 structure between the "Executive" and the "General" Committees. This must be changed before Tulsa! The chakras will not open and the Sephiroth shall wither.

[anapko]

Looks like they updated the new Tulsa org. website...

http://www.worldwidepf.com/page.php?ID=19

links are on the bottom right

They added the mailing address, purpose statement and benefits of joining

Also, Wayne Budgell, Benny Dobson and David Smith are not on the list anymore

David Smith (ultra con from Maine)very involved with the group that split off from Tekle in Ethiopia

Jeff Dyches and Paul Elder have been added to the list

Interestingly, Chris Craft is no longer on any committees

http://www.worldwidepf.com/page.php?ID=6


Honestly, after viewing the website, my conclusion is they have formed another organization. This isn't a fellowship, it is another denomination with the word fellowship in it's name. How cloy to try to downplay the denominal overtones with word play. The late Alan Oggs called the UPC a denomination, in his books and I heard him call it from the pulpit. At least that great man had the decency to call it like it was...a denomination! Why won't the Tulsa group give us the same courtesy?

[Pastor Keith]

For Phil

Taken from the website, their motivation is fear and not faith

"The formation of WPF is an outgrowth of the changing times and directions within the American apostolic movement and is the result of a constellation of events and decisions which have shaped apostolic direction for some time—some, we fear, for the worse, and ours hopefully for the better. "

[pelathais]

Maybe I'm clicking on the wrong thing but I clicked on the linke provided, when I got to the website I clicked on the committe and I still see Chris Craft's name on the youth committe and TLC on the council as well...

i thought they weren't leaving????
You may need to refresh the page in your browser. Hit F5 or the "Refresh" button.

[philjones]

For Phil

Taken from the website, their motivation is fear and not faith

"The formation of WPF is an outgrowth of the changing times and directions within the American apostolic movement and is the result of a constellation of events and decisions which have shaped apostolic direction for some time—some, we fear, for the worse, and ours hopefully for the better. "

Actually, that is NOT the case. When I read that quote, their fear is for those who are headed the wrong direction. Their corporate expression for their direction is hope! :)

[anapko]

For Phil

Taken from the website, their motivation is fear and not faith

"The formation of WPF is an outgrowth of the changing times and directions within the American apostolic movement and is the result of a constellation of events and decisions which have shaped apostolic direction for some time—some, we fear, for the worse, and ours hopefully for the better. "

I couldn't agree more with your post. I also believe it is fear of losing control. With the new org. they can have complete control. That is until someone brings another resolution 4 to the table. Then they'll go somewhere else to start another org. Good Post!

[Encryptus]

I couldn't agree more with your post. I also believe it is fear of losing control. With the new org. they can have complete control. That is until someone brings another resolution 4 to the table. Then they'll go somewhere else to start another org. Good Post!

Nah they'll split over split end trimming before that. :-)

[anapko]

Nah they'll split over split end trimming before that. :-)

Righteous!!!

[Pastor Keith]

Actually, that is NOT the case. When I read that quote, their fear is for those who are headed the wrong direction. Their corporate expression for their direction is hope! :)


You miss my point, they are reacting to something, thus reactionary, and the motive is fear not faith.

For the simpletons among us, we see something and we are afraid therefore change (withdraw) and new fellowship is needed.

[SavedLou]

Hello! New here...my first post! I’m a little confused about this Tulsa thing. I know UPC pastors/churches are leaving due to the TV decision, etc. Is the WWPF a new “organization” with the Tulsa meeting their “kickoff” or is it just a meeting for anyone? I went to their site and saw all the names…are these the ones that have officially left? I feel so stupid and naive…I had no idea things had gotten to this point already.

[Pastor Keith]

Hello! New here...my first post! I’m a little confused about this Tulsa thing. I know UPC pastors/churches are leaving due to the TV decision, etc. Is the WWPF a new “organization” with the Tulsa meeting their “kickoff” or is it just a meeting for anyone? I went to their site and saw all the names…are these the ones that have officially left? I feel so stupid and naive…I had no idea things had gotten to this point already.

Bloom where your are planted!

[SavedLou]

Bloom where your are planted!

:huh trying to figure out where to apply that but...

[Pastor Keith]

:huh trying to figure out where to apply that but...

Stay involved in your local church and stay out of the national stuff, your life and state of mind will be more peaceful.

[SavedLou]

Stay involved in your local church and stay out of the national stuff, your life and state of mind will be more peaceful.

planning on it. we are pretty happy as we are thankfully.

[IBCrazier2]

WPF is an honest attempt to embrace and work with any and all authentic Apostolics who are forward looking, agree with its Articles of Faith, desire to be proactive in propagating the gospel, and are of good spirit, regardless of organization affiliation or lack thereof. We feel it evident that the lack of concerted fellowship and cooperation between men of like precious faith due to organizationally imposed boundaries have hindered rather than helped the growth and power of the Kingdom of God.


What defines an authentic Apostolic?

[Thoughts by T]

For Phil

Taken from the website, their motivation is fear and not faith

"The formation of WPF is an outgrowth of the changing times and directions within the American apostolic movement and is the result of a constellation of events and decisions which have shaped apostolic direction for some time—some, we fear, for the worse, and ours hopefully for the better. "

Keith,

I couldn't agree with you more. This kind of leadership leads out of a fear based concept. If they cannot control something, it leaves them with a feeling of no self worth. So they have to manipulate something or do something that goes against normal icy to validate themselves. This kind of leadership does not lead pro actively, but reactively. If you look at Jesus, he was never seen doing anything like this. He didn't have to be a controller because he had enough self worth and was affirmed of who he really was. The day of influence for some of these people is over. They cant influence like they could back in the day and it bugs them. Someone that has to control something all the time in order to validate themselves and make themselves feel important will always lead that way. They will lead churches that way, people that way and sadly life that way. If we could ever wake up and realize that we don't have to be in control of every situation around us, think of how much further we could reach. Sadly, some people will never realize that and they will not see that they are showing people who they really are. We are arguing and splitting over something that in the course of the next 2 years will be in every home (and already is in most) through the internet anyway. It is INEVITABLE. If you have the internet you will be able to go turn it on to any channel you want. You already can to a degree. Even on our cell phones you can watch TV now. It sounds like if you own a cell phone you will probably go to hell. It doesn't make sense. Put the controlling aside and just live life to the fullest point you can. Its too short already.

[SavedLou]

Keith,

I couldn't agree with you more. This kind of leadership leads out of a fear based concept. If they cannot control something, it leaves them with a feeling of no self worth. So they have to manipulate something or do something that goes against normal icy to validate themselves. This kind of leadership does not lead pro actively, but reactively. If you look at Jesus, he was never seen doing anything like this. He didn't have to be a controller because he had enough self worth and was affirmed of who he really was. The day of influence for some of these people is over. They cant influence like they could back in the day and it bugs them. Someone that has to control something all the time in order to validate themselves and make themselves feel important will always lead that way. They will lead churches that way, people that way and sadly life that way. If we could ever wake up and realize that we don't have to be in control of every situation around us, think of how much further we could reach. Sadly, some people will never realize that and they will not see that they are showing people who they really are. We are arguing and splitting over something that in the course of the next 2 years will be in every home (and already is in most) through the internet anyway. It is INEVITABLE. If you have the internet you will be able to go turn it on to any channel you want. You already can to a degree. Even on our cell phones you can watch TV now. It sounds like if you own a cell phone you will probably go to hell. It doesn't make sense. Put the controlling aside and just live life to the fullest point you can. Its too short already.

well put. i've often thought it was ironic that people are in a turmoil over the resolution being passed while most UPCers i know already own a TV with at least their local channels. now if the majority didn't i could see their point that this would cause it to occur. i would say it's about 85% true at my church. people tell me all the time that they've had one since the 60's just back then they kept it out of sight in case pastor came over :jolly

[Ron Turner]

I know some of these guys personally. They are very controlling. At least the guys in my district.

[triumphant1]

well put. i've often thought it was ironic that people are in a turmoil over the resolution being passed while most UPCers i know already own a TV with at least their local channels. now if the majority didn't i could see their point that this would cause it to occur. i would say it's about 85% true at my church. people tell me all the time that they've had one since the 60's just back then they kept it out of sight in case pastor came over :jolly

Ahhh...now you are proving Steve Epley's long held point...(you might not know who SE is but many of us do).

[SavedLou]

Ahhh...now you are proving Steve Epley's long held point...(you might not know who SE is but many of us do).

so who is SE?

[dizzyde]

What defines an authentic Apostolic?

That is my major problem with some of these guys (not all), that they somehow feel it is their right to judge who is preaching truth, based on their personal convictions. I realize this does not apply to all of these men, possibly not even most, but that is very dangerous mindset, IMO.

[Ron Turner]

That is my major problem with some of these guys (not all), that they somehow feel it is their right to judge who is preaching truth, based on their personal convictions. I realize this does not apply to all of these men, possibly not even most, but that is very dangerous mindset, IMO.

I agree. The guys on the list from my district have that attitude.

How much of all of this is due to unrest in California? The guys in my district who are involved with this have close ties to California.

It seems to me that the "virus" that has plagued California for so long is now being spread the nation.

[SavedLou]

have often heard very "controlling" stories about cali. one guy i know is only 32 and said growing up their pastor forbid the guys to wear certain types of jeans b/c they looked "gay". he isn't there anymore though...goes to one of those (gasp) liberal churches out there. :)

[philjones]

I agree. The guys on the list from my district have that attitude.

How much of all of this is due to unrest in California? The guys in my district who are involved with this have close ties to California.

It seems to me that the "virus" that has plagued California for so long is now being spread the nation.

Ron, you wouldn't be my kin folks would you... possibly living in OK?:D

[dizzyde]

I agree. The guys on the list from my district have that attitude.

How much of all of this is due to unrest in California? The guys in my district who are involved with this have close ties to California.

It seems to me that the "virus" that has plagued California for so long is now being spread the nation.

You said it! (I tend to agree)

[Ron Turner]

Ron, you wouldn't be my kin folks would you... possibly living in OK?:D

No sir, I'm not from OK. :tattle But I watched them get man-handled by West Virginia last night.

I am closely related to many Jones though.

[philjones]

No sir, I'm not from OK. :tattle But I watched them get man-handled by West Virginia last night.

I am closely related to many Jones though.

Ironically, the Ron Turner I was thinking you might be attends or at least attended Triumphant1's church. That is why I thought you might be he!:)

As far as I know, I am the only Jones from our tree that is in the Apostolic Ministry.

BTW, you could have gone a long time without bringing up the whuppin' my Sonners took last night. When I read it in the paper this morning I was really shocked and saddened! When my dad pastored in OK we used to use the Sooners as a prognostication tool. We could tell how the service was going to go based on whether the Sooners wone or lost! :D

[Ron Turner]

When the big team in our district wins, we have blowout church.

So funny.

Nice to meet you!

[Sister Truth Seeker]

Interesting to me...............

A few from Oregon, not long ago someone came to the forum to declare Oregon is in tact and NO one is leaving............and was very upset with me because I heard some were..........ahhhh guess I was correct after all!

[Ron Turner]

For Phil

Taken from the website, their motivation is fear and not faith

"The formation of WPF is an outgrowth of the changing times and directions within the American apostolic movement and is the result of a constellation of events and decisions which have shaped apostolic direction for some time—some, we fear, for the worse, and ours hopefully for the better. "


A well known Pastor in the UPC recently preached near my home. I was able to go hear him.

In his sermon, he mentioned how most men who struggle with fear are very controlling of their wives.

It seems that men resort to control when they are afraid. I think the same principle would apply here.

[SISTER Murphy]

Interesting to me...............

A few from Oregon, not long ago someone came to the forum to declare Oregon is in tact and NO one is leaving............and was very upset with me because I heard some were..........ahhhh guess I was correct after all!

I never said nobody was leaving, I said that, so far, none had left. Only one minister turned in his license. And, if there are some that are leaving, it will be about five pastors, not whatever bigger number (11 or 12 or so), was being spouted when I first responded. The real numbers will be known after January ends, for there are a few who (so I have heard) are not going to renew their licenses.

[StillStanding]

A well known Pastor in the UPC recently preached near my home. I was able to go hear him.

In his sermon, he mentioned how most men who struggle with fear are very controlling of their wives.

It seems that men resort to control when they are afraid. I think the same principle would apply here.

Very good post! This is so true!

[Barb]

For Phil

Taken from the website, their motivation is fear and not faith

"The formation of WPF is an outgrowth of the changing times and directions within the American apostolic movement and is the result of a constellation of events and decisions which have shaped apostolic direction for some time—some, we fear, for the worse, and ours hopefully for the better. "

Regretfully, I must agree with you, Keith...

I went to the site and read it after seeing your post today.

They fear the UPCI brethren are headed in the wrong direction, but the WPF brethren are not...hmmm...

And wording it the way they did, that this formation of a fellowship is "a constellation of events and decisions," makes it clear that they don't want anyone to think it is just a 'tv issue'.

Other things posted on their site...hoping to fellowship with those who "hold true to the core values of scriptural righteousness, holiness, and separation."

And just what is an "authentic Apostolic?!"

My concern for all of this is heightened, I must say...

[George]

Hello! New here...my first post! I’m a little confused about this Tulsa thing. I know UPC pastors/churches are leaving due to the TV decision, etc. Is the WWPF a new “organization” with the Tulsa meeting their “kickoff” or is it just a meeting for anyone? I went to their site and saw all the names…are these the ones that have officially left? I feel so stupid and naive…I had no idea things had gotten to this point already.

WWPF? Is that Worldwide Wrestling Pentecostal Fellowship? :toofunny

[Barb]

WWPF? Is that Worldwide Wrestling Pentecostal Fellowship? :toofunny

Mercy...I pray not!! :ouch

[Sweet Pea]

Something I don't understand.... they clearly state on their website that they already have a 501(c)(3) status. From my limited knowledge (and I've been wrong before), this takes some time to acquire. So are they using the 501(c)(3) that has already been established by one of the churches involved? Or did they apply for one and already go through the government hoops to obtain one quite a while before actually publicizing the formation of their new "organization" (for lack of a better term)? - that would mean that they had all their ducks were in a row BEFORE General Conference.... :stirpot

Feel free to correct me if you have more knowledge about how obtaining a 501(c)(3) status works and I'm wrong on the time it takes.... :tiphat

[RevBuddy]

Swee Pea,

You're exactly correct. A complete 501(c)(3) filing is quite detailed and the approval process is extensive. If I were to guess, I would guess they are using an existing 501(c)(3) organization's documentation until their documentation is approved. But this is only a guess...

[triumphant1]

I have an interesting observation...originally it was said (by KP I believe) that the Tulsa location was picked because it was the best place they found to RENT space for the conference...."The Green Country Event Center"

On the flier it says that the services will be held at their HEADQUARTERS--"THE GREEN COUNTRY EVENT CENTER"...

I rarely go to that part of town (31st and Hwy 169 area) but I am real tempted to go over there now just to see...DID THEY BUY THAT PROPERTY?

[triumphant1]

I have an interesting observation...originally it was said (by KP I believe) that the Tulsa location was picked because it was the best place they found to RENT space for the conference...."The Green Country Event Center"

On the flier it says that the services will be held at their HEADQUARTERS--"THE GREEN COUNTRY EVENT CENTER"...

I rarely go to that part of town (31st and Hwy 169 area) but I am real tempted to go over there now just to see...DID THEY BUY THAT PROPERTY?

***Bump***

So Did they? Did they actually buy a headquaters building in Tulsa?

[Jekyll]

Something I don't understand.... they clearly state on their website that they already have a 501(c)(3) status. From my limited knowledge (and I've been wrong before), this takes some time to acquire. So are they using the 501(c)(3) that has already been established by one of the churches involved? Or did they apply for one and already go through the government hoops to obtain one quite a while before actually publicizing the formation of their new "organization" (for lack of a better term)? - that would mean that they had all their ducks were in a row BEFORE General Conference.... :stirpot

Feel free to correct me if you have more knowledge about how obtaining a 501(c)(3) status works and I'm wrong on the time it takes.... :tiphat
If this is the case, what is wrong with this? Why can't one prepare for adverse results? Don't most people carry insurance? Auto, health life?

[Pastor Keith]

Something I don't understand.... they clearly state on their website that they already have a 501(c)(3) status. From my limited knowledge (and I've been wrong before), this takes some time to acquire. So are they using the 501(c)(3) that has already been established by one of the churches involved? Or did they apply for one and already go through the government hoops to obtain one quite a while before actually publicizing the formation of their new "organization" (for lack of a better term)? - that would mean that they had all their ducks were in a row BEFORE General Conference.... :stirpot

Feel free to correct me if you have more knowledge about how obtaining a 501(c)(3) status works and I'm wrong on the time it takes.... :tiphat

I did one not to long ago, if you have a competent person such as an accountant, it takes 6-8 weeks, but I agree I think they were lining up their ducks for this move.

[LaGirl]

***Bump***

So Did they? Did they actually buy a headquaters building in Tulsa?

you will know when the "official announcement" is made! you KNOW i could not let that pass me by! lol lol lol lol :toofunny:toofunny

[SoCaliUPC]

***Bump***

So Did they? Did they actually buy a headquaters building in Tulsa?

From what we are hearing here....the headquarters for this new group will be in Tulsa. Someone can correct me, but the word out here is that Floyd Odom is moving or has moved to Tulsa.

[triumphant1]

you will know when the "official announcement" is made! you KNOW i could not let that pass me by! lol lol lol lol :toofunny:toofunny

LOL...I'll letcha have that one....

Funny thing, I didn't know about this until my UPC sister told me that the flier said the meeting was at the WPF headquaters.....she was asking me....I'm like, "They rented a meeting hall here because it was the only one available in the mid-west for those dates (according to what was posted oroginally on the forum)"...but the flier (posted on their OFFICIAL website does in fact say, "Held at WPF Headquarters: The Green Country Event Center"...

SOOOOO....

Did they buy that building to headquater out of?

Does this mean we have to put up with them showing up all the time in our eating and shopping establishments? TIC

[SoCaliUPC]

LOL...I'll letcha have that one....

Funny thing, I didn't know about this until my UPC sister told me that the flier said the meeting was at the WPF headquaters.....she was asking me....I'm like, "They rented a meeting hall here because it was the only one available in the mid-west for those dates (according to what was posted oroginally on the forum)"...but the flier (posted on their OFFICIAL website does in fact say, "Held at WPF Headquarters: The Green Country Event Center"...

SOOOOO....

Did they buy that building to headquater out of?

Does this mean we have to put up with them showing up all the time in our eating and shopping establishments? TIC

T1....can't say if they bought THAT building...but word is that they have bought/rented/leased (whatever) a building in Tulsa to serve as their HQ. Once again, the word out here, from various people, is that the person that they have "anointed" to be the person in charge is moving (or has already moved) to Tulsa.

[triumphant1]

From what we are hearing here....the headquarters for this new group will be in Tulsa. Someone can correct me, but the word out here is that Floyd Odom is moving or has moved to Tulsa.

yes...but did they buy that building?

Do they actually have a "headquarters" building for a fellowship that is not an organization?

Does this mean that they will "staff" it with full time employees and leaders?

BTW, I don't care, my sis just made me interested that's all....

[SoCaliUPC]

yes...but did they buy that building?

Do they actually have a "headquarters" building for a fellowship that is not an organization?

Does this mean that they will "staff" it with full time employees and leaders?

BTW, I don't care, my sis just made me interested that's all....

Don't know if THAT was the building they bought. They do have a HQ building, however. Don't know what the staff will be.

[triumphant1]

T1....can't say if they bought THAT building...but word is that they have bought/rented/leased (whatever) a building in Tulsa to serve as their HQ. Once again, the word out here, from various people, is that the person that they have "anointed" to be the person in charge is moving (or has already moved) to Tulsa.

It must be "The Green Country Event Center"....according to how that flier is worded....it sure convinced my sis...

I had never heard of this event center before this...i guess I'll have to drive over there and look at it for us all.....

I'll let ya'll know if they have a sign up....

[triumphant1]

Don't know if THAT was the building they bought. They do have a HQ building, however. Don't know what the staff will be.

interesting...for a Tulsan....

[SoCaliUPC]

T1....just looked at the website of said venue....just seems to be a convention type place. I think it is just the "meeting" place...as it has different rooms for breakouts.

I don't think THIS is the building.

[triumphant1]

T1....just looked at the website of said venue....just seems to be a convention type place. I think it is just the "meeting" place...as it has different rooms for breakouts.

I don't think THIS is the building.

That's what was so interesting to me...I thought this building was an "event center"....I was thinking, "Well, that's one way to fund missions...rent your headquarters building out for events...."

Maybe they just mean headquaters (town) is Tulsa...but it sure is worded funny....like they bought the event center...

I think Ill still go look at it...lol.

[SoCaliUPC]

That's what was so interesting to me...I thought this building was an "event center"....I was thinking, "Well, that's one way to fund missions...rent your headquarters building out for events...."

Maybe they just mean headquaters (town) is Tulsa...but it sure is worded funny....like tey bought to event center...I think Ill still go look at it...lol.

Well....it could be like their "leader list".....evangelistically speaking!!!

[embonpoint]

T1....can't say if they bought THAT building...but word is that they have bought/rented/leased (whatever) a building in Tulsa to serve as their HQ. Once again, the word out here, from various people, is that the person that they have "anointed" to be the person in charge is moving (or has already moved) to Tulsa.

I heard that they are not in Tulsa proper but actually in a suburb called Mounds?????




















J/k T1 :happydance

[triumphant1]

I heard that they are not in Tulsa proper but actually in a suburb called Mounds?????

J/k T1 :happydance

Well it's a good thing my church is in the suburb Glenpool now!!! LOL....

[gulfcoastbrother]

Floyd Odom, who retired from Pentecostal Tabernacle in Hattiesburg, MS moved to Gulf Shores (Bon Secour) Alabama to a retirement home he bought. From pretty reliable sources, he and his wife have gotten an apartment in Tulsa. With that being said, I believe Tulsa is more than a "fellowship". It is indeed a split because why else would he move there? Also his name is on the flier as being from Tulsa, which confirms what we were told.

[embonpoint]

Well it's a good thing my church is in the suburb Glenpool now!!! LOL....

Yeah but they would have to drive through it to get to the restaurants at the Riverwalk.:lol

[triumphant1]

Yeah but they would have to drive through it to get to the restaurants at the Riverwalk.:lol

If they did that they'd have to drive through my home suburb as well....I guess they could stop in and watch some good football with me on their way to eat...LOL

[TrmptPraise]

Quoting from their own site: The formation of WPF is an outgrowth of the changing times and directions within the American apostolic movement and is the result of a constellation of events and decisions which have shaped apostolic direction for some time—some, we fear, for the worse, and ours hopefully for the better.

The wording of the text seems, IMO, to point to just that cause. A new organization. Perhaps the reason that is is being touted as a fellowship is that right now, pre-org, it is not in the group's best interest to publicize it as such during this "recruitment" time.

"Mapping a preferred Apostolic future" certainly means that, in their opinion, the current organization that they belong to (or are leaving, or intend to leave) is not adequate to meet the needs of the future. Therefore, the creation of this organization is the result. Also, when you see such things on the schedule as Governance, By-Laws, Articles of Faith and Membership, its hard to define that organizational structure as a fellowship. So, I can't see it by no other definition, but an organization.

I am not attending, but looking at the schedule, I am interested in Bro. Booker's address entitled, "What the Worldwide Pentecostal Fellowship Is Not." It would seem that would be a short address.

The question is whether the UPCI will take a stance (which I think they have with the release of KH's letter) that truly recognizes this as an organization formation.

Still lots of questions and hypothesis that won't be answered until the end of this month.

[stmatthew]

I thought this was already spoken about. The initial feeling was that the Tulsa meeting would be the place that a fellowship would be created. Then the word was that there would be dual licensing. Fellowship cards for those that wished to stay UPC, and licenses for those that wanted more and were leaving UPC. The word now is that this is a full fledged Organization with non-payed positions. The Tulsa meeting is to introduce the Org to potential members, with another meeting to be held later for the actual signing up of those that wish to join. Thus, the way I understand it right now, Tulsa is just an detailed info meeting of what the WPF is offering.

[TrmptPraise]

I thought this was already spoken about. The initial feeling was that the Tulsa meeting would be the place that a fellowship would be created. Then the word was that there would be dual licensing. Fellowship cards for those that wished to stay UPC, and licenses for those that wanted more and were leaving UPC. The word now is that this is a full fledged Organization with non-payed positions. The Tulsa meeting is to introduce the Org to potential members, with another meeting to be held later for the actual signing up of those that wish to join. Thus, the way I understand it right now, Tulsa is just an detailed info meeting of what the WPF is offering.

That is the way I understood it at its initial face value, as well. I have no difference with you there. But since they have updated the site and looking at the schedule that ends Friday morning with Membership on the agenda, it would seem that membership might be available right away. Of course, I may be taking what it released on their website at too much of a face value. As I said, I don't think a lot of these questions will be answered until we hear exactly what happens at Tulsa.

[stmatthew]

That is the way I understood it at its initial face value, as well. I have no difference with you there. But since they have updated the site and looking at the schedule that ends Friday morning with Membership on the agenda, it would seem that membership might be available right away. Of course, I may be taking what it released on their website at too much of a face value. As I said, I don't think a lot of these questions will be answered until we hear exactly what happens at Tulsa.

i would say that very likely you are right, and there will be an open enrollment for ministers to join at the end of the Tulsa Meeting.

[Mrs. LPW]

:stirpot Is anyone going to sneak a video camera into Tulsa?

[TrmptPraise]

:stirpot Is anyone going to sneak a video camera into Tulsa?

No, I heard that the minutes will be recorded by a stenographer. (TIC)

[triumphant1]

:stirpot Is anyone going to sneak a video camera into Tulsa?

I'm not!!! ROTFL!!!

[Cindy]

:stirpot Is anyone going to sneak a video camera into Tulsa?

:shhh Now who would do a thing like that? :saycheese

[Mrs. LPW]

:shhh Now who would do a thing like that? :saycheese

Too bad it's men only, Katie Couric could loan someone her camera purse.

[triumphant1]

Sooo...can no one connected to the Tulsa group verify where the Headquaters building is--if in fact it is not the Green Country Event Center?

Or does the statement, "Held at WPF Headquaters" only signify the town and not a building?

[TrmptPraise]

Sooo...can no one connected to the Tulsa group verify where the Headquaters building is--if in fact it is not the Green Country Event Center?

Or does the statement, "Held at WPF Headquaters" only signify the town and not a building?

I wish I could answer to that, Triumph. I can't find any official or confirmed information that would say they have purchased that building.

I see there have been more updates today on the site, or at least since my previous visit, especially in the points of interest tab. A lot of questions with one word answers and no explanations. I personally like the one that says, "Does the WPF have missionaries." The answer: " 'Find and Facilitate'--Come and see." Not sure what that exactly means.

Another interesting question: Can I support an independent apostolic missionary or one from another apostolic organization by giving through the Worldwide Pentecostal Fellowship? Answer: Yes. And why would that be necessary if the missionary already has an affiliation with another organization through whom you could contribute?

Even better, they are tax deductible.

[tv1a]

No, but you can bet there will be tons of portable cassette recorders just like the good days.:stirpot Is anyone going to sneak a video camera into Tulsa?

[Broken]

:stirpot Is anyone going to sneak a video camera into Tulsa?


This is definately stirring a pot as it sure is not humorous

I am sure u can count back to the days when u didn't own a video camera and with all due respect they were few and far between in your district

I personally feel if these christians want to go this route - may they be enriched with great friends, brothers and sisters that would love them and appreciate their stand.

[dht0943]

No, but you can bet there will be tons of portable cassette recorders just like the good days.
oh someone will definitely video it, you could bet on that (if you were a gambling person of course, which none of us on here is im sure). I would guess ppl will vid with their cell phones if that is the only way they can do it and not get caught. I think i want to dress up as a man and go... hahahahahaha

[Ron Turner]

T1....can't say if they bought THAT building...but word is that they have bought/rented/leased (whatever) a building in Tulsa to serve as their HQ. Once again, the word out here, from various people, is that the person that they have "anointed" to be the person in charge is moving (or has already moved) to Tulsa.

I noticed that Floyd Odom is listed as being from Tulsa. I thought he had moved from Mississippi to Foley, Alabama after resigning the church in Hattiesburg.

[Thinking]

Is there something in the announcement that says only men can attend the meetings?

Concerning the video question: I know many "conservatives" who take video pictures with their digital cameras. Just short ones, of course.

[triumphant1]

I wish I could answer to that, Triumph. I can't find any official or confirmed information that would say they have purchased that building.

I see there have been more updates today on the site, or at least since my previous visit, especially in the points of interest tab. A lot of questions with one word answers and no explanations. I personally like the one that says, "Does the WPF have missionaries." The answer: " 'Find and Facilitate'--Come and see." Not sure what that exactly means.

Another interesting question: Can I support an independent apostolic missionary or one from another apostolic organization by giving through the Worldwide Pentecostal Fellowship? Answer: Yes. And why would that be necessary if the missionary already has an affiliation with another organization through whom you could contribute?

Even better, they are tax deductible.

I understand that it is just really getting started and there is a lot to do....but mis-information is bad. The flier says, "Held at WPF Headquarters"...which really sounds like they have a permanent place at TGEC....but who knows?

[philjones]

I noticed that Floyd Odom is listed as being from Tulsa. I thought he had moved from Mississippi to Foley, Alabama after resigning the church in Hattiesburg.

Ron,

He still has the place in Bon Secour. He is currently residing in Tulsa and the AL home is still his retirement haven! :D

[Mrs. LPW]

This is definately stirring a pot as it sure is not humorous

I am sure u can count back to the days when u didn't own a video camera and with all due respect they were few and far between in your district

I personally feel if these christians want to go this route - may they be enriched with great friends, brothers and sisters that would love them and appreciate their stand.

I'm sorry I offended you. If you knew me you'd know I'm pretty conservative myself. I like to have fun though, but again I'm sorry I offended you.

[SoCaliUPC]

I noticed that Floyd Odom is listed as being from Tulsa. I thought he had moved from Mississippi to Foley, Alabama after resigning the church in Hattiesburg.

DID and is now coming to or is in Tulsa.

[Apprehended]

Ron,

He still has the place in Bon Secour. He is currently residing in Tulsa and the AL home is still his retirement haven! :D

Brother Jones,

I forgot Floyd Odom's brother's first name but he pastored a church in Mississippi too, at one time. Do you think that he might be a part of that too?

[CC1]

No, I heard that the minutes will be recorded by a stenographer. (TIC)

This is highly offensive. You know good and well that to be "Apostolic" we must shun all modern technology as it is of the world. We must emulate the original church in every way so I am confident that the minutes will be recorded on a scroll.

Hopefully by a very talented scribe who can also illustrate.

[gulfcoastbrother]

Brother Odom's brother is not a pastor. His uncle, Royce Earl Odom, pastors in Petal, MS. He is really old now. I doubt he will travel to Tulsa. He was a long time MS District Board Member for over 30 years.

[gulfcoastbrother]

Ron Turner, do you pastor in VA?

[Monkeyman]

This is definately stirring a pot as it sure is not humorous

I am sure u can count back to the days when u didn't own a video camera and with all due respect they were few and far between in your district

I personally feel if these christians want to go this route - may they be enriched with great friends, brothers and sisters that would love them and appreciate their stand.Naw, disagree bro/sis. Humor can be found in her statements. It works on both sides of the issue ane her comment was funny. I found it funny, just as funny when certain "great" canadian posters jab at our church music, commenting that banjo music is played. The humor is in that it they know that obviously we have a modern concept with our style. Are some of them upset at that fact...maybe...some of them are just having fun with me...and it is funny. Lets not get over-dramatic, ok?

[Monkeyman]

I'm sorry I offended you. If you knew me you'd know I'm pretty conservative myself. I like to have fun though, but again I'm sorry I offended you.Ur cool...he/she over-reacted.

[TrmptPraise]

This is highly offensive. You know good and well that to be "Apostolic" we must shun all modern technology as it is of the world. We must emulate the original church in every way so I am confident that the minutes will be recorded on a scroll.

Hopefully by a very talented scribe who can also illustrate.

You are so right! I must repent of my ways. Now where was that cave wall I was doodling on?........:toofunny

[Broken]

Naw, disagree bro/sis. Humor can be found in her statements. It works on both sides of the issue ane her comment was funny. I found it funny, just as funny when certain "great" canadian posters jab at our church music, commenting that banjo music is played. The humor is in that it they know that obviously we have a modern concept with our style. Are some of them upset at that fact...maybe...some of them are just having fun with me...and it is funny. Lets not get over-dramatic, ok?



Who are you to say it is "funny"...I found it not so funny- if u think it is funny- laugh- the world is yours to laugh

I am not over-dramatic - I know it was stirring the pot - maybe I need to know the author of the post more to see if the they really are funny witty and all the time jokester-

No offense Monkeyman- u are not in my shoes/skin and I do not think it is a funny statement - sorry!

[Broken]

Ur cool...he/she over-reacted.


:ohplease

[Monkeyman]

Who are you to say it is "funny"...I found it not so funny- if u think it is funny- laugh- the world is yours to laugh

I am not over-dramatic - I know it was stirring the pot - maybe I need to know the author of the post more to see if the they really are funny witty and all the time jokester-

No offense Monkeyman- u are not in my shoes/skin and I do not think it is a funny statement - sorry!That was my point. It was funny...to me.:reaction

There was another thread about PSR and how could it have had such a big attendance...my first thought was: an overflow room with "video CCTV" like BOTT...see, that is funny to me, yeah I know, I know, not to you. Its all good.

[Monkeyman]

Who are you to say it is "funny"...I found it not so funny- if u think it is funny- laugh- the world is yours to laugh

I am not over-dramatic - I know it was stirring the pot - maybe I need to know the author of the post more to see if the they really are funny witty and all the time jokester-

No offense Monkeyman- u are not in my shoes/skin and I do not think it is a funny statement - sorry!

1. Your posts speak differently.
2. Yes, yes, you do.

[Maple Leaf]

This is definately stirring a pot as it sure is not humorous

I am sure u can count back to the days when u didn't own a video camera and with all due respect they were few and far between in your district

I personally feel if these christians want to go this route - may they be enriched with great friends, brothers and sisters that would love them and appreciate their stand.

Just guessing Mrs. LPW's age, I doubt that she can count back to the days when video cameras were few and far between in her district. The use of video became fairly common in this end of the world in the middle eighties, and I suspect that Mrs LPW was more concerned about Easy Bake Ovens than Video Cameras in those days.

For what's it worth, the comment about video at Tulsa was pretty funny considering some conservatives oppose the use of video and Mr ABN Global is one of the organizers of the Tulsa Tea Party.

[Monkeyman]

Just guessing Mrs. LPW's age, I doubt that she can count back to the days when video cameras were few and far between in her district. The use of video became fairly common in this end of the world in the middle eighties, and I suspect that Mrs LPW was more concerned about Easy Bake Ovens than Video Cameras in those days.

For what's it worth, the comment about video at Tulsa was pretty funny considering some conservatives oppose the use of video and Mr ABN Global is one of the organizers of the Tulsa Tea Party.And the fact that Mrs. LPW doesn't have a mean, pot-stirring bone in her body. I have realized though since she started posting here what a sense of humor she has....even for a conservative!!!!!!! Ooops, I meant, "humour".

Did you notice my reference to a great canadian poster....you are legendary my friend, ha!

[Maple Leaf]

And the fact that Mrs. LPW doesn't have a mean, pot-stirring bone in her body. I have realized though since she started posting here what a sense of humor she has....even for a conservative!!!!!!! Ooops, I meant, "humour".

Did you notice my reference to a great canadian poster....you are legendary my friend, ha!

I assume that, in the Monkeyman Standard Dictionary, legendary means "old and out of touch."

Some of us pine for the days when the ratio of accordians to guitars in church was 10:1, and Bro. Gerry was strumming the soul stirring chords of "The Great Speckled Bird" on that one guitar. I don't know how any band expects the Spirit to move without the heavenly wail of a steel guitar.

[Monkeyman]

I assume that, in the Monkeyman Standard Dictionary, legendary means "old and out of touch."

Some of us pine for the days when the ratio of accordians to guitars in church was 10:1, and Bro. Gerry was strumming the soul stirring chords of "The Great Speckled Bird" on that one guitar. I don't know how any band expects the Spirit to move without the heavenly wail of a steel guitar.
LOL. ML, you will be highly appreciative of the fact that our esteemed youth band has resurrected that wonderful song from the ashes...but...heavy rock style, sorry. (pronounced surry) ha.

Also, while visiting CLC I noticed they have a tambourine ministry....yup, really nice tambourines, located at the altar, a fine usher will hand deliver it to you at your request. I'm gonna have to talk to Than...I mean, Pastor Haney! So maybe the brush arbor days are ahead of you?

****To the author of this thread, "You may have it back"****

[Mrs. LPW]

Just guessing Mrs. LPW's age, I doubt that she can count back to the days when video cameras were few and far between in her district. The use of video became fairly common in this end of the world in the middle eighties, and I suspect that Mrs LPW was more concerned about Easy Bake Ovens than Video Cameras in those days.

For what's it worth, the comment about video at Tulsa was pretty funny considering some conservatives oppose the use of video and Mr ABN Global is one of the organizers of the Tulsa Tea Party.

Thank you! Keep me just as young as possible for as long as possible please!!! I'm starting to near the top of the hill they say.

See, now I thought it was funny too.

[Mrs. LPW]

LOL. ML, you will be highly appreciative of the fact that our esteemed youth band has resurrected that wonderful song from the ashes...but...heavy rock style, sorry. (pronounced surry) ha.

Also, while visiting CLC I noticed they have a tambourine ministry....yup, really nice tambourines, located at the altar, a fine usher will hand deliver it to you at your request. I'm gonna have to talk to Than...I mean, Pastor Haney! So maybe the brush arbor days are ahead of you?

****To the author of this thread, "You may have it back"****

Which song is that MM, the old one ressurected I mean?

I learned to play the accordian when I was first married and in some country churches. Quite an instrument. I dearly love music, although I'm a terrible make fun at times, I do enjoy the occasional CCC Keenager choir song. (hope none of them read this.. they all love me you see)

I think my 'problem' is I'm an old soul in a still considered young body.




ps... I do like to stir pots occasionally but only in fun... never to hurt anyone
If you've ever chatted with my brother, you'll find I'm a milder version of him.

[Monkeyman]

Which song is that MM, the old one ressurected I mean?

I learned to play the accordian when I was first married and in some country churches. Quite an instrument. I dearly love music, although I'm a terrible make fun at times, I do enjoy the occasionally CCC Keenager choir song. (hope none of them read this.. they all love me you see)

I think my 'problem' is I'm an old soul in a still considered young body.




ps... I do like to stir pots occasionally but only in fun... never to hurt any
The Great Speckled Bird...heavy metal style...don't worry, it was only in rehearsal, and just for fun. You won't be hearing it anytime soon...yet

[Mrs. LPW]

The Great Speckled Bird...heavy metal style...don't worry, it was only in rehearsal, and just for fun. You won't be hearing it anytime soon...yet

HOW IN THE WORLD.... never mind.

That is one song I just can't imagine being sung any other way. And I thought I had a good imagination.

[Monkeyman]

HOW IN THE WORLD.... never mind.

That is one song I just can't imagine being sung any other way. And I thought I had a good imagination.Wait til you hear my rap version of "ImaoneGodapostolictonguetalkingholyroller"...its off da chain!!!!:happydance
I spit some mean beats!!! LOL (I'll translate all that if I have to)

[Mrs. LPW]

Wait til you hear my rap version of "ImaoneGodapostolictonguetalkingholyroller"...its off da chain!!!!:happydance
I spit some mean beats!!! LOL (I'll translate all that if I have to)

I'd rather you didn't.








:toofunny

[CC1]

Yesterday my wife and I were paid a visit by a UPC evangelist and wife who are preaching in our state this week.

The preacher is a former ultra con who has become just conservative, perhaps even moderate-conservative as he has aged. I found out he is going to the Tulsa meeting to "check it out".

I have a feeling he would have been much more comfortable there 15 years ago than he will be now. I am curious now to see if he will join.

[Rhoni]

It's nothing short of a cult giving all the power to the Pastor with no accountability to anyone. There are a few names I am sorry to see on there.

Blessings, Rhoni

[tv1a]

If I could get someone to play the banjo, Friend of God would make a great contemporary bluegrass tune.


The Great Speckled Bird...heavy metal style...don't worry, it was only in rehearsal, and just for fun. You won't be hearing it anytime soon...yet

[Harmony]

It's nothing short of a cult giving all the power to the Pastor with no accountability to anyone. There are a few names I am sorry to see on there.

Blessings, Rhoni

You are right. No accountability whatsoever.

[Raven]

If I could get someone to play the banjo, Friend of God would make a great contemporary bluegrass tune.

I know MM [JR] will groan at this but I have a 14 year old grandson that can light a banjo on fire! We need more banjo's in Pentecost don't we MM?
Ravenhttp://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc78/Papalarry15/now.jpg

[Monkeyman]

I know MM [JR] will groan at this but I have a 14 year old grandson that can light a banjo on fire! We need more banjo's in Pentecost don't we MM?
Ravenhttp://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc78/Papalarry15/now.jpg

Aww, now that ain't fair, he's too cuuute a kid to make fun of. Man he's a good looking dude!

Can we get him a geetar instead??? :happydance

Tell him to enjoy that noise-maker down here, cuz' they ain't none in heaven!!!!!!!

[Raven]

Aww, now that ain't fair, he's too cuuute a kid to make fun of. Man he's a good looking dude!

Can we get him a geetar instead??? :happydance

Tell him to enjoy that noise-maker down here, cuz' they ain't none in heaven!!!!!!!
MM
Actually he's very good on the guitar too but you can't be a good citizen of the state of Tennessee and not like the banjo!
Raven

[Thinking]

Do any of you know that the late Emily Gray--wife of the late David F. Gray of Revival Tabernacle in San Diego played the banjo? I mean she played it in church on the platform. I think it was a banjo--maybe a mandolin.

[stmatthew]

Do any of you know that the late Emily Gray--wife of the late David F. Gray of Revival Tabernacle in San Diego played the banjo? I mean she played it in church on the platform. I think it was a banjo--maybe a mandolin.

I am sure he will not mind, as he has not hidden his ID, but Reformed Dave, is the son of the late David F Gray.

[lad]

Aww, now that ain't fair, he's too cuuute a kid to make fun of. Man he's a good looking dude!

Can we get him a geetar instead??? :happydance

Tell him to enjoy that noise-maker down here, cuz' they ain't none in heaven!!!!!!!


MM - that is Anthony's(AR) son.... didn't know if you knew?...

[Thinking]

I am sure he will not mind, as he has not hidden his ID, but Reformed Dave, is the son of the late David F Gray.

He had wonderful parents.

[Monkeyman]

MM - that is Anthony's(AR) son.... didn't know if you knew?...I didn't know that at first, and then the closer I looked, I just knew! Not fair, the R's got all the smarts AND looks!!!

[SoCaliUPC]

Do any of you know that the late Emily Gray--wife of the late David F. Gray of Revival Tabernacle in San Diego played the banjo? I mean she played it in church on the platform. I think it was a banjo--maybe a mandolin.

She played the banjo.

[rgcraig]

Excerpts from the Articles of Faith

Public School Activities

We disapprove of school students attending shows, dances, dancing classes, theaters, engaging in school activities against their religious scruples, and being forced to dress in any way which immodestly exposes the body.

We disapprove of school students being forced to take coeducational classes which involve boys and girls being mixed together in swimming, calisthenics, and other mixed athletics while clothed in unsuitable attire which immodestly exposes the body.

We disapprove of school students being forced to take any classes, in which, under the guise of health classes or otherwise, sex education is taught coeducationally or films or lectures are given that promote amoral, immoral, or unnatural behavior.

We disapprove of school students being forced to be taught by or listen to those who promote or advocate sexual activity of any kind other than that within the bonds of the marriage relationship of husband and wife.



Marriage and Divorce

“Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, commiteth adultery” (Matthew 19:9, 5:32). A right to divorce includes a right for the innocent party to remarry only in the Lord.



The Bible

The Bible is inspired of God and is the infallible Word of God. “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness” (II Timothy 3:16). The King James Version shall be the official version used in the development of all materials or programs of this fellowship.





Religious Holidays

Pentecost Sunday, the Annual Summit, and the annual National Youth Convocation of this fellowship are declared to be an official religious holidays for all members.

[rgcraig]

5. Implications of the Human Individual as the Temple of God

The Bible uses numerous descriptions for the individual believer. In God’s body, they are “members in particular” (I Corinthians 12:27). They are also “sons of God,”(I John 3:2) “disciples” (John 15:7,8), “light” (Matthew 5:16, Ephesians 5:8), “salt” (Matthew 5:13), “saints” (“holy ones”, I Corinthians 1:2, Romans 1:7), “vessels” (I Thessalonians 4:4), and “the temple of God” (Ephesians 2:20-22, I Corinthians 3:16). Much of the epistolic content of the New Testament is devoted to expanding on the implication of the individual as the temple of God.

As a temple they are to be “set apart” only for the holy purposes of God.

The human spirit is set apart “from,” as well as “to.” For example, it is to be set apart from all that is profane – all hatred, bitterness, unthankfulness, idolatry and such like… In contrast, it is to set apart to the holy purposes of worship (John 4:23-24, Phil. 3:3), thanksgiving (Ephesians 5:20), reverence, and prayer (Philippians 4:6, Ephesians 6:18).

The soul/mind/emotions are likewise to be set apart from licentiousness, evil thoughts, dishonesty, etc., and set apart to purity, beauty, charity, honesty, etc. The five senses are to be carefully guarded as to what enters and is allowed to reside in the mind and what is allowed to stimulate the emotions to act (Philippians 4:8, II Peter 3:1,2). Hence, Paul’s admonition to put on the “helmet of salvation” that protects the mind (Ephesians 6:17). As a manifestation of his ethical standards, David declared, “I will set no wicked thing before my eyes,” (Psalms 101:3). These principles in practical living include separation from the general historical and cultural milieu of worldly entertainment and adulation of flesh, regardless of its origin or form, all of which runs counter, in virtually every way, to the vibrancy, power, wholesomeness, and triumph of God’s holiness. The believer abstains from purveyors of all such, including, but not limited to, prurient print material, unclean musical acts and songs, and musical productions (I Corinthians 15:33), Hollywood-style movies, and television, worldly sports, improper internet content, and all other forms and mediums of such (Deuteronomy 7:26).

The body of the believer is specifically identified by scripture as being the temple of the Holy Ghost (I Corinthians 3:16,17 6:19,20). The body is to always be carefully and modestly clothed, (I Timothy 2:9) reserved to the glory of God, not used for the glory of the flesh (I Corinthians 3:17). Adulation of flesh is a form of idolatry; that is, to worship the temple rather than the God of the temple. To glory in men in any situation, whether religious, theatre, or sporting events, is a conflict with scripture, (I Corinthians 3:21). “He delighteth not in the strength of the horse: he taketh not pleasure in the legs of a man. The Lord taketh pleasure in them that fear him, in those that hope in his mercy,” (Psalms 147:10,11). Believers are to adorn the doctrine of God, our Savior, in all things (Titus 2:10).

In contrast to the teaching of the ancient Greeks, and later, the Gnostics, the Bible does not teach that the human body is evil, nor that it is an impediment to spirituality. Instead, it is God’s habitation from which and through which He conveys His glory to the world (Matthew 5:16). As one would expect, God’s dwelling is sacred (I Kings 9:3, I Corinthians 3:16,17) and therefore is to be separated from all other uses as well as all uncleanness, immorality, sexual impurity, illicit lust, and all porneia (Romans 1:27-32). Any or all sexual impurity defiles the temple of God (I Corinthians 3:17). Any activity which lends itself to the accommodation or temptation to such is to be avoided, including sensual dress, dancing, mixed swimming, and attendance at places and events which accommodate such (I Peter 2:11). In addition, other abuses of the body such as gluttony (Proverbs 23:1-3,23), any substance addiction, or acts of uncleanness contrary to the spirit and word of the Bible, such as gambling, use of tobacco and alcoholism (I Corinthians 6:9,10, Galatians 5:21), and any other actions which run counter to the sacred separation of that (Revelation 21:8) which is dedicated only to holy uses (I Corinthians 6:11,12, II Corinthians 7:1). Sexual relationships are intended for and acceptable only within the bounds of marriage (Hebrews 13:4). Marriage is ordained of God (Matthew 19:5,6) and is God’s provision for avoidance of sexual immorality (I Corinthians 7:9) as well as being a cornerstone of all civilization (Genesis 2:18, 21-24).

The glory (Romans 2:10) of the male believer is manifested, among other ways, in lifting holy hands as an holy act to God (I Timothy 2:8). The glory of the female believer is manifested, among other ways, through the emanation of the divine glory in her appearance (I Peter 3:3,4). All artifice is viewed as obstruction to her authentic beauty and is to be avoided (I Timothy 2:9,10). Jewelry, (I Timothy 2:9), make-up, (II Kings 9:3) dyes, and any other artificiality, as well as immodest apparel, are viewed as attempts to artificially induce beauty (Isaiah 3:16-24 RSV, I Peter 3:1-5) and replace the lost glow of God’s glory as seen in the face of the believer as well as in the heavens. All this is Scripturally associated with Jezebel, who is both an Old Testament (I Kings 18:4, 19:1-2, II Kings 9:7,30), as well as New Testament, example of seduction and artificiality (Revelation 2:20,22). Thus, “cosmetics,” derived from “cosmos” (arrangement, as in the universe) are attempts to “make-up” the sparkle and glow, which is normative in the presence of the living God as well as within the believer (Philippians 2:15).

6. Believers as the Image of God

Mankind requires both feminine and masculine gender to complete the role as revealer of God’s image, that is, being made in the image of God (Genesis 1:27). Thus, Scripture is firmly consistent in its insistence on maintaining feminine/masculine distinctions. This is done in numerous ways, ranging from repeated explanations of the order of nature (I Corinthians 15:38-41; I Corinthians 11:3), including sexual relations being normative between male and female (Genesis 2:24, 4:1,2; Proverbs 18:22), to injunctions concerning dress, and distinctions between things which are associated with men versus things which are associated with women I Corinthians 6:9, Deuteronomy 22:5, I Corinthians 11:4,5, 14,15). Pants, for example, scripturally and historically are equivalent to “girding up the loins like a man” (Job 38:3), something women did not do (Deuteronomy 22:5). Included in these distinctions were occupations and activities which were masculine as opposed to those considered feminine (I Timothy 5:14; Titus 2:4,5 and Titus 2:6-8). Hair is also an outward distinctive which Scripture utilizes to display this principle. Cut hair for masculine (I Corinthians 11:4, 13), uncut hair for feminine (I Corinthians 11:5,6,14), are also examples utilized to emphasize this principle (I Corinthians 11:7-9). Even in the liberty, freedom, and gender equivalency of New Testament birth of the Spirit and ministry, (Galatians 3:28; Ephesians 2:15,16) Paul firmly delineates equality in ministry as a separate thing from destruction of feminine and masculine distinctions (Acts 2:17,18). He insists that women and men, though both can be equally anointed, (Acts 21:9; I Corinthians 12:10) nevertheless are to maintain their order and gender distinction outwardly by man’s cut hair and the woman’s uncut hair (I Corinthians 11:13-15). These guidelines clearly cannot be dismissed as local cultural biases of days gone by. Nor can they be classified as parochial issues germane only to a certain day or time. They are, instead, connected to the permanent ground and order of Creation and should not be abrogated due to whim and fancy of a worldly society.

[Ferd]

You know for a group that has only been "organizing" since October of 07, these guys sure have a lot of stuff already in place.

[rgcraig]

You know for a group that has only been "organizing" since October of 07, these guys sure have a lot of stuff already in place.

lol....there's lots more on the website.

[Melody]

Nice to know they are educated to handle facilitating this

[Ferd]

lol....there's lots more on the website.

we even had someone come on here and post a link to a new acredited college these guys are very much involved in.

it is a distance learning program but looks quite credible.

These fellows have had this thing in the works for a long time. They have just been waiting for the "timeing" to be right.


the conspircy nut inside me is beginning to think that "tabling" of the TV resolution in 2006 was just because they werent quite ready with the new org yet!

[chseeads]

Ooo, good conspiracy theory!

[CC1]

You know for a group that has only been "organizing" since October of 07, these guys sure have a lot of stuff already in place.

The scope and detail of all of this should hush those who were saying they didn't think this was going to be a full fledged denomination competing with the UPC.

It is clear it is pretty much as mirror image of the UPC with a few conservative twists.

General Conference = In Tulsa time is apparently "the Summit"
National Youth Congress = In Tulsa time is the "National Youth Convocation"

[rgcraig]

The scope and detail of all of this should hush those who were saying they didn't think this was going to be a full fledged denomination competing with the UPC.

It is clear it is pretty much as mirror image of the UPC with a few conservative twists.

General Conference = In Tulsa time is apparently "the Summit"
National Youth Congress = In Tulsa time is the "National Youth Convocation"

Exactly!

I think they were in denial.

[CC1]

Exactly!

I think they were in denial.

Yup. You don't declare certain meetings "Holidays" if you don't plan on being considered a full fledged denomination (or for those who deny the UPC and like are denominations - religious organization)