UPC District Supt recruiting for Tulsa

[gulfcoastbrother]

I have a good pastor friend in the UPC who lives in the USA who got a call from a District Supt in the UPC who tried to recruit him to go to Tulsa. Now, I have a question - IS THIS LEGAL with the UPC? Is this morally right? This is first hand info and to my understanding, he's not the first one that has gotten a phone call such as this.

[Turbid Bliss]

A District Superintendant? :eek: Wow!

[RevBuddy]

This is quite a heresay declaration without any evidence at all...

What's the value of a unsubstantiated rumor...?

[gulfcoastbrother]

The point of the post is not to substaniate anything at all. I will not divulge any info because I would be violating this great man of God's trust. He's an awesome, Godly man in the movement and would not lie to me. It is my thought that this Dist Supt will come to naught and be exposed eventually. I was just asking for thoughts as to how the UPC looks on this type of activity.

[Rev]

I have a good pastor friend in the UPC who lives in the USA who got a call from a District Supt in the UPC who tried to recruit him to go to Tulsa. Now, I have a question - IS THIS LEGAL with the UPC? Is this morally right? This is first hand info and to my understanding, he's not the first one that has gotten a phone call such as this.

This DS needs to resign BEFORE he makes those calls.

[Apprehended]

I can't help but to remember Korah who was an esteemed Prince among the people of God.

Persoally, I would not stand on the same ground as those people going to Tulsa. I remember what happened to the ground that Korah and his bunch stood on. In fact, I would not be caught dead in Tulsa during the month of January...or even Feburary, just to be sure....

Rebels never prosper nor do the fellowships that rebels foster.

[tv1a]

Wow!!! Be careful, you may join Dan on the outside looking in. lol

I can't help but to remember Korah who was an esteemed Prince among the people of God.

Persoally, I would not stand on the same ground as those people going to Tulsa. I remember what happened to the ground that Korah and his bunch stood on. In fact, I would not be caught dead in Tulsa during the month of January...or even Feburary, just to be sure....

Rebels never prosper nor do the fellowships that rebels foster.

[Praxeas]

I have a good pastor friend in the UPC who lives in the USA who got a call from a District Supt in the UPC who tried to recruit him to go to Tulsa. Now, I have a question - IS THIS LEGAL with the UPC? Is this morally right? This is first hand info and to my understanding, he's not the first one that has gotten a phone call such as this.
I don't know about legalities. Morality? I don't know. Ethical? I think it is unethical

[Apprehended]

Wow!!! Be careful, you may join Dan on the outside looking in. lol

LOL... :lol

Naaaah, I don't think AFF will fall into the pit with Korah leaving me on the outside looking in. AFF is safe I think... :D

[RevBuddy]

This is just complete and irresponsible gossip...no facts, no evidence, no brains...

[Praxeas]

This is just complete and irresponsible gossip...no facts, no evidence, no brains...
True, but no name was given so we can treat is a hypothetical....what say ye?

[gulfcoastbrother]

If I had names, it may be gossip. However, I would never do that because then it would be wrong. My pastor friend is not lying I can assure you.

[Whole Hearted]

I can't help but to remember Korah who was an esteemed Prince among the people of God.

Persoally, I would not stand on the same ground as those people going to Tulsa. I remember what happened to the ground that Korah and his bunch stood on. In fact, I would not be caught dead in Tulsa during the month of January...or even Feburary, just to be sure....

Rebels never prosper nor do the fellowships that rebels foster.

I wouldn't want to stand on the same ground with compromises.

[Pig Pen]

I wouldn't want to stand on the same ground with compromises.


Man, are you ever in trouble. Compromisers in the UPCI and gonna be compromisers in Tulsa.

[tv1a]

As if the internet admendment in the manual wasn't a compromise.

I wouldn't want to stand on the same ground with compromises.

[stmatthew]

I think the "US vs Them" will forever be in the Apostolic movement of our day. I look for God to birth His next revival outside of the current ranks.

[Apprehended]

I think the "US vs Them" will forever be in the Apostolic movement of our day. I look for God to birth His next revival outside of the current ranks.

What God is going to do will be a new thing. It will not be old time religion as usual. It will be as drastic to Pentecost today as Pentecost was to the Jews 2000 years ago. Radical, unheard of, mind boggling, unprecedented and will not believed though told you...so much so that your ears will tingle when you hear of it.

But, no denomination, Pentecost or otherwise will be able to hold it unless they become new skins. The new wine will break old bottles.

[pelathais]

I don't know about legalities. Morality? I don't know. Ethical? I think it is unethical
If it were true, the DS in question would be guilty of working against the unity of the body. Depending upon what was said (if anything) the ones recieving the calls would have grounds to initiate a Judicial Proceeding against their DS after first confronting him as per Matthew 18.

The elected J.P. representatives could then take the matter either to the General Board, where the DS would face his peers, or to a trial with elected officers presiding.

In any event, such behavior as what is alleged is a very serious breach of ethics and a clear violation of the Manual. The DS should have resigned before taking a "pro-Tulsa" position.

It seems to me that a lot of folks are getting desperate to fill that 2,000 seat auditorium. If they don't fill every chair with a preacher and having preachers standing in the aisle then they will have egg on their faces over the grandiose predictions they made at the start.

If the don't even get all of the men on their list of "Committees" and "Councils" to attend then it's over.

[RevBuddy]

Admin,

This can't be an exceptable thread in accordance with your forum policy...I appeal to you to remove it...

[rrford]

Admin,

This can't be an exceptable thread in accordance with your forum policy...I appeal to you to remove it...

Agreed.

[bishoph]

I guess I will take the heat from all the Tulsa Group "haters." I think it depends on the intent of the DS who has/is doing the calling. If the Tulsa Group is creating another "AWCF" type fellowship with a conservative bend (which is what they claim to be doing) and are just taking it one step further by providing licensing only for those who are independent or have left their respective organizations and need that type of structure, then this DS may not be acting in an unethical manner as long as he is not advocating leaving the UPCI, but rather participating in both.

I remember when the AWCF was forming and while the circumstances were different, (the founders were not leaving the UPCI to form it) the outcome may be the same. The UPCI took a very harsh stand against the AWCF and even threatened to bring formal charges in some districts if one of their ministers joined the AWCF. Such a stand backfired and caused many men who would not have even given the AWCF a second look to check them out.

If the said DS is in fact advocating some type of mass withdrawal from the UPCI this is unethical IMO.

[mizpeh]

I have a good pastor friend in the UPC who lives in the USA who got a call from a District Supt in the UPC who tried to recruit him to go to Tulsa. Now, I have a question - IS THIS LEGAL with the UPC? Is this morally right? This is first hand info and to my understanding, he's not the first one that has gotten a phone call such as this.

If the Tulsa group is JUST a fellowship, what's the big deal? Is the DS saying disfellowship with the UPC?

Did the DS call this pastor friend as a friend or as the DS?

[Neck]

I have a good pastor friend in the UPC who lives in the USA who got a call from a District Supt in the UPC who tried to recruit him to go to Tulsa. Now, I have a question - IS THIS LEGAL with the UPC? Is this morally right? This is first hand info and to my understanding, he's not the first one that has gotten a phone call such as this.


Start calling it what it is a "Split".

[Mr. Steinway]

If the Tulsa group is JUST a fellowship, what's the big deal? Is the DS saying disfellowship with the UPC?

Did the DS call this pastor friend as a friend or as the DS?

Well, could Bro. Haney call fellow UPCI preachers as a friend to discourage them from going to Tulsa, and it not come across as the GC of the UPCI calling them? In this case, the "GS" card would trump the "friend" card.

[Jekyll]

The point of the post is not to substaniate anything at all. I will not divulge any info because I would be violating this great man of God's trust. He's an awesome, Godly man in the movement and would not lie to me. It is my thought that this Dist Supt will come to naught and be exposed eventually. I was just asking for thoughts as to how the UPC looks on this type of activity.
This post is schizophrenic and suspect. The whole hypothetical issue is incorrect, as gulfc mentioned that someone called him about a DS.

Anyway, an awesome man of God will be exposed eventually...hmmm baaad starting point, gulfc. You should start this over.

And, Pig Pen, were you referencing that WholeHearted is a compromiser in the UPCI and would be in Tulsa? Lol :toofunny

[mizpeh]

Well, could Bro. Haney call fellow UPCI preachers as a friend to discourage them from going to Tulsa, and it not come across as the GC of the UPCI calling them? In this case, the "GS" card would trump the "friend" card.

Tulsa is being promoted as a fellowship and no one has to leave the UPC to join! Why is it unethical to invite someone to go? :drama

[Jekyll]

Admin,

This can't be an exceptable thread in accordance with your forum policy...I appeal to you to remove it...
What does politics have to do with this???


OH, it says forum, not foreign policy...:ouch

[Walkbyfaith7]

Start calling it what it is a "Split".

The Lord spoke to me months ago and told me about this split. I told all my UPCI friends and other people as well. I think alot of them are still in denial but the true fallout has yet to be uncovered and people will try to hide the real numbers in an attempt to 'save face'.

As with people who abuse alcohol and drugs...the first step is always DENIAL.

[Praxeas]

Tulsa is being promoted as a fellowship and no one has to leave the UPC to join! Why is it unethical to invite someone to go? :drama
Is that really ALL it is promotes as being? Why is it many of those involved have already left the UPC?

[Jekyll]

Is that really ALL it is promotes as being? Why is it many of those involved have already left the UPC?
Is this enough of a reason to say a fellowship is something that it isn't?

[Praxeas]

Admin,

This can't be an exceptable thread in accordance with your forum policy...I appeal to you to remove it...
Use the Post reporting tool and the Admins will review it.....

[mizpeh]

Is that really ALL it is promotes as being? Why is it many of those involved have already left the UPC?

And maybe that's why there are all the letters from the higher ups in the UPC and the behind the scenes phone calls and such......Tulsa has the potential for becoming more than just a loose fellowship and most probably will be.:drama

[Praxeas]

And maybe that's why there are all the letters from the higher ups in the UPC and the behind the scenes phone calls and such......Tulsa has the potential for becoming more than just a loose fellowship and most probably will be.:drama
The UPC is a fellowship.....by definition this other "fellowship" is an alternative. The PAW is a fellowship. The AA is a fellowship.

As it stands we have "church within a church"...we have sectarianism. We have loss of love it seems....we have tale bearers and liars....we have tattle tales, rumor mongers and people that have nothing better to do than to try to cause trouble for others....and most of them visit this forum or other internet forums obviously....so much energy...if only we could channel it into soul winning. Why whine about Res 4 for or against when clearly we are not as intent on soul willing as we claim to be as organizations go and sub organizations

[TrmptPraise]

And maybe that's why there are all the letters from the higher ups in the UPC and the behind the scenes phone calls and such......Tulsa has the potential for becoming more than just a loose fellowship and most probably will be.:drama

quoting from their own site: The formation of WPF is an outgrowth of the changing times and directions within the American apostolic movement and is the result of a constellation of events and decisions which have shaped apostolic direction for some time—some, we fear, for the worse, and ours hopefully for the better.

The wording of the text seems, IMO, to point to just that cause. A new organization. Perhaps the reason that is is being touted as a fellowship is that right now, pre-org, it is not in the group's best interest to publicize it as such during this "recruitment" time.

"Mapping a preferred Apostolic future" certainly mean that, in their opinion, the current organization that they belong to (or are leaving, or intend to leave) is not adequate to meet the needs of the future. Therefore, the creation of this organization is the result. So, I can see it as no other definition, but an organization.

The question is whether the UPCI will take a stance (which I think they have with the release of KH's letter) that truly recognize this as an organization formation. Still lots of questions and hypothesis that won't be answered until the end of this month.

[mizpeh]

The UPC is a fellowship.....by definition this other "fellowship" is an alternative. The PAW is a fellowship. The AA is a fellowship.

As it stands we have "church within a church"...we have sectarianism. We have loss of love it seems....we have tale bearers and liars....we have tattle tales, rumor mongers and people that have nothing better to do than to try to cause trouble for others....and most of them visit this forum or other internet forums obviously....so much energy...if only we could channel it into soul winning. Why whine about Res 4 for or against when clearly we are not as intent on soul willing as we claim to be as organizations go and sub organizations

I was going to respond on what I really thought of the Tulsa meeting earlier today, but deleted it. It started out like this: The only thing that I can point to in which I think God was pleased with was the forming of the UPC. It was a show of unity and not division.

[Mrs. LPW]

The Lord spoke to me months ago and told me about this split. I told all my UPCI friends and other people as well. I think alot of them are still in denial but the true fallout has yet to be uncovered and people will try to hide the real numbers in an attempt to 'save face'.

As with people who abuse alcohol and drugs...the first step is always DENIAL.

AmAzInG... oh never mind.

[Ferd]

I guess I will take the heat from all the Tulsa Group "haters." I think it depends on the intent of the DS who has/is doing the calling. If the Tulsa Group is creating another "AWCF" type fellowship with a conservative bend (which is what they claim to be doing) and are just taking it one step further by providing licensing only for those who are independent or have left their respective organizations and need that type of structure, then this DS may not be acting in an unethical manner as long as he is not advocating leaving the UPCI, but rather participating in both.

I remember when the AWCF was forming and while the circumstances were different, (the founders were not leaving the UPCI to form it) the outcome may be the same. The UPCI took a very harsh stand against the AWCF and even threatened to bring formal charges in some districts if one of their ministers joined the AWCF. Such a stand backfired and caused many men who would not have even given the AWCF a second look to check them out.

If the said DS is in fact advocating some type of mass withdrawal from the UPCI this is unethical IMO.


I like this post. I think it gets to the heart of the matter.

This thread is at best a hypothetical and at worst hearsay. in either case, names have been named so as a hypothetical only, the bishops words are accurate.

I still say 1000 preachers will leave and 500 churches will be affected. That is my story and I am sticking to it. (not all will join the Tulsa group.)

[Steadfast]

I like this post. I think it gets to the heart of the matter.

This thread is at best a hypothetical and at worst hearsay. in either case, names have been named so as a hypothetical only, the bishops words are accurate.

I still say 1000 preachers will leave and 500 churches will be affected. That is my story and I am sticking to it. (not all will join the Tulsa group.)

I couldn't have said it better. Consider yourself applauded by Steadfast!

[ChicagoPastor]

The point of the post is not to substaniate anything at all. I will not divulge any info because I would be violating this great man of God's trust. He's an awesome, Godly man in the movement and would not lie to me. It is my thought that this Dist Supt will come to naught and be exposed eventually. I was just asking for thoughts as to how the UPC looks on this type of activity.

IF it's true and it becomes known who this Dist Supt is I'm sure the General Board would take action against the man

[ChicagoPastor]

The Lord spoke to me months ago and told me about this split. I told all my UPCI friends and other people as well. I think alot of them are still in denial but the true fallout has yet to be uncovered and people will try to hide the real numbers in an attempt to 'save face'.

As with people who abuse alcohol and drugs...the first step is always DENIAL.

:drama :drama :drama

The only ones that will be inflating numbers and be in denial about what they truly are is the Tulsa group not the UPC

[Apprehended]

A Mississippi Pastor/Evangelist just called me. He is going to the meeting in Tulsa. I told him that I will not be caught dead in Tulsa either in January or Feburary...just to be sure.

He is intimate with what is going on and said they are going to have to get a larger auditorium to handle the crowds of people coming. I don't know if he is speaking "evangelistically" or not.

[ChicagoPastor]

A Mississippi Pastor/Evangelist just called me. He is going to the meeting in Tulsa. I told him that I will not be caught dead in Tulsa either in January or Feburary...just to be sure.

He is intimate with what is going on and said they are going to have to get a larger auditorium to handle the crowds of people coming. I don't know if he is speaking "evangelistically" or not.

I'd take it as "evangelisticly" speaking.
They can't change venues now.

[Apprehended]

I'd take it as "evangelisticly" speaking.
They can't change venues now.

Sounds reasonable to me. It's too near the event to try anything like that. I guess they will have to have overflow rooms with thousands standing out on the streets...yeah right!

Actually, I wonder if there'll be enough there to fill up the platform.

[ChicagoPastor]

Sounds reasonable to me. It's too near the event to try anything like that. I guess they will have to have overflow rooms with thousands standing out on the streets...yeah right!

Actually, I wonder if there'll be enough there to fill up the platform.

:search

Something l never got clarification on is whether Tulsa is just for ministers or if it is also opened to saints.

IF it's just ministers I doubt they get 500 ministers there.



IF it's open to minsiters AND saints, they have a chance at getting 1000 people there.

[Discerner]

I like this post. I think it gets to the heart of the matter.

This thread is at best a hypothetical and at worst hearsay. in either case, names have been named so as a hypothetical only, the bishops words are accurate.

I still say 1000 preachers will leave and 500 churches will be affected. That is my story and I am sticking to it. (not all will join the Tulsa group.)

No way this happens, maybe in Tulsa's dreams. However, sometimes you have to get rid of some stuff before you can move on. If this group just wants to continue to cause divisions within the body, then so long!

[Discerner]

A Mississippi Pastor/Evangelist just called me. He is going to the meeting in Tulsa. I told him that I will not be caught dead in Tulsa either in January or Feburary...just to be sure.

He is intimate with what is going on and said they are going to have to get a larger auditorium to handle the crowds of people coming. I don't know if he is speaking "evangelistically" or not.

Ever heard the term propoganda?

[embonpoint]

:search

Something l never got clarification on is whether Tulsa is just for ministers or if it is also opened to saints.

IF it's just ministers I doubt they get 500 ministers there.



IF it's open to minsiters AND saints, they have a chance at getting 1000 people there.

If folks keep throwin numbers around carelessly someones gonna get poked in eye by a digit. Or slapped by an integer.:)

Actually 500 to 1000 would seem to be a very significant number as the voting ministers at GC in Tampa was only a little over 2000 with a year's worth of preconference buidup over Res 4. Using this as a base line I would be surprised if 2000 ministers showed up in Tulsa.

[Pastor G]

If folks keep throwin numbers around carelessly someones gonna get poked in eye by a digit. Or slapped by an integer.:)

Actually 500 to 1000 would seem to be a very significant number as the voting ministers at GC in Tampa was only a little over 2000 with a year's worth of preconference buidup over Res 4. Using this as a base line I would be surprised if 2000 ministers showed up in Tulsa.

I personally think the majority of the ministers who go to Tulsa will be ones who were not in Tampa... I think the majority will be those who were told about it from people who threw their own personal opinion (scare tactic) in the mix about the future of the UPC..

[SoCaliUPC]

I personally think the majority of the ministers who go to Tulsa will be ones who were not in Tampa... I think the majority will be those who were told about it from people who threw their own personal opinion (scare tactic) in the mix about the future of the UPC..

You are not the only one to see the "scare tactics" used as propoganda for the Tulsa group.

[triumphant1]

A Mississippi Pastor/Evangelist just called me. He is going to the meeting in Tulsa. I told him that I will not be caught dead in Tulsa either in January or Feburary...just to be sure.

He is intimate with what is going on and said they are going to have to get a larger auditorium to handle the crowds of people coming. I don't know if he is speaking "evangelistically" or not.

Call your friend and ask him for me, "Did they buy the "Green Country Event Center" as their headquaters...because it looks like they did on their flier....

If not, where is their headquaters building located?

[gulfcoastbrother]

Many of you are upset with this post and I apologize for that. However, the intent was to discuss whether or not this was right for this DS to be making these types of calls. I can assure you this happened. Now to what extent the DS went I can't be sure. The point was not to condemn the DS but to discuss whether or not it was right. I believe we have determined that it was not right for him to do this regardless of his intent.

[Joseph Miller]

I have a good pastor friend in the UPC who lives in the USA who got a call from a District Supt in the UPC who tried to recruit him to go to Tulsa. Now, I have a question - IS THIS LEGAL with the UPC? Is this morally right? This is first hand info and to my understanding, he's not the first one that has gotten a phone call such as this.

With no proof then it is just gossip and discord among the brethern. I believe that is an abomination.

This is just complete and irresponsible gossip...no facts, no evidence, no brains...

I agree Revbuddy

[Walkbyfaith7]

With no proof then it is just gossip and discord among the brethern. I believe that is an abomination.



And what about overeating or being overweight and not taking care of the temple of the Holy Ghost?

Hmm.....

:shhh

[Joseph Miller]

And what about overeating or being overweight and not taking care of the temple of the Holy Ghost?

Hmm.....

:shhh


Explain yourself, I don't understand what you are saying. The things you listed are not abominations are they?

[Walkbyfaith7]

Explain yourself, I don't understand what you are saying. The things you listed are not abominations are they?

I have met so many OBESE preachers.....they can preach all they want but they have their own addiction to fight and get right with God on.

Also many woman in some UPCI churches are obese, much more than the normal population. No doubt it's because sports are of the devil and they can't interact with the world in any activities.

Control, power, money, greed. That is what organizations are famous for.

[augustianian]

What's the value of a unsubstantiated rumor...?

Uh....they're fun.:drama

a