Presidential Candidates: Who is the most focused on Defense and the war on Terror?

[COOPER]

Who is the most military minded?

In other words; Which candidates is more willing, ready to kick some Tali ban butt and protect our borders?

[Walkbyfaith7]

Is COOPER a warmonger? :)

[Ferd]

Any of the republicans will be OK on the war. any of the dems are cowards.

[Walkbyfaith7]

Any of the republicans will be OK on the war. any of the dems are cowards.

I say everyone who is for the war in Iraq should be allowed to sign up for the military!

Old or young, lame or walking. Somehow those that want the war should all be responsible for the war.

Some right wing Christians are not aware of what mental health is and how the soldiers are coming back really messed up witd PTSD.

[Ferd]

I say everyone who is for the war in Iraq should be allowed to sign up for the military!

Old or young, lame or walking. Somehow those that want the war should all be responsible for the war.

Some right wing Christians are not aware of what mental health is and how the soldiers are coming back really messed up witd PTSD.

Good for you. This is American and you can say what ever you want....


you dont even have to be right.








BTW, i served in Desert Storm. I know a thing or two about the subject.

[Walkbyfaith7]

Good for you. This is American and you can say what ever you want....

you dont even have to be right.

BTW, i served in Desert Storm. I know a thing or two about the subject.


Thanks for serving in Destert Storm. But you are mistaken when it comes to this topic.

These people are fighting because of their God, Allah. It is more than in Iraq, more than Iran, more than Pakistan, more than in Europe and now they are starting to increase in number in the USA. These people want all the Jews killed. These people want all the allies of the Jews killed. Prophecy says that all nations will come against who? Jersusalem and that mean the USA too. So before you are too patriotic you might want to consider this very country will end up fighting against the Lord's first chosen people.

[DividedThigh]

i would be glad to go, but the rangers think i am to old now, lol,and more valuable at home generating income tax, to pay for it, lol,dt:happydance

[DividedThigh]

Thanks for serving in Destert Storm. But you are mistaken when it comes to this topic.

These people are fighting because of their God, Allah. It is more than in Iraq, more than Iran, more than Pakistan, more than in Europe and now they are starting to increase in number in the USA. These people want all the Jews killed. These people want all the allies of the Jews killed. Prophecy says that all nations will come against who? Jersusalem and that mean the USA too. So before you are too patriotic you might want to consider this very country will end up fighting against the Lord's first chosen people.

well we do live in america so all of my family have served so you can talk smart i guess, my brother just got back from iraq, so speak on bro, but you arent there either, dt:drama

[Walkbyfaith7]

well we do live in america so all of my family have served so you can talk smart i guess, my brother just got back from iraq, so speak on bro, but you arent there either, dt:drama

Talk smart? Did I say something that was wrong?

[DividedThigh]

Talk smart? Did I say something that was wrong?

i live in the great north woods, among the hunters up here, when the muslims get here, and they do have a mosque here, however small they dont run around trying to kill everybody else, mainly because we will and should defend ourselves, that is the kind of president we need, like the one we have, inho, dt

[Walkbyfaith7]

i live in the great north woods, among the hunters up here, when the muslims get here, and they do have a mosque here, however small they dont run around trying to kill everybody else, mainly because we will and should defend ourselves, that is the kind of president we need, like the one we have, inho, dt

You can't defend yourself against these types we are dealing with.
We can't even find them hardly. That is the tactic of terror.

We don't need a president to war monger like Bush, we need a president who will stop bulling other countries as that is not in our constitution nor in our best interest as a country. We have more enemies than anyone because we are in everyone else's business.

[DividedThigh]

You can't defend yourself against these types we are dealing with.
We can't even find them hardly. That is the tactic of terror.

We don't need a president to war monger like Bush, we need a president who will stop bulling other countries as that is not in our constitution nor in our best interest as a country. We have more enemies than anyone because we are in everyone else's business.

you keep believing that, and i will believe what i have believed since a child, dont worry when they come my powder will be dry, lol, dt:drama

[Walkbyfaith7]

you keep believing that, and i will believe what i have believed since a child, dont worry when they come my powder will be dry, lol, dt:drama

They won't come for you. They don't care about you. They care about the big military that is around taunting people and on their land.

If someone was on your soil...see you get upset but then it is ok with you if we go on theirs, blow up their lands, accidentally killed some woman and children and enforce our political system.

My question is: Why is it Ok for you to do that to people but they can't do it to you?

These such statements are made by hipocrites.

Sigh.

[Cindy]

Well repeated exposure to violence causes Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome. Not just war. But I believe had 9/11 not happened our military would not be in Iraq. But I also believe if we had not sent our military there more of the innocent people o. Iraq would have been tortured and killed than are the terrorist and the remnants of Sadaam's supporters that the military is fighting.
Just because someone supports the military doesn't mean they are warmongers. I think most Americans don't like war but are willing to support our military and our President, Congress, and Senate.

[Walkbyfaith7]

Well repeated exposure to violence causes Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome. Not just war. But I believe had 9/11 not happened our military would not be in Iraq. But I also believe if we had not sent our military there more of the innocent people o. Iraq would have been tortured and killed than are the terrorist and the remnants of Sadaam's supporters that the military is fighting.
Just because someone supports the military doesn't mean they are warmongers. I think most Americans don't like war but are willing to support our military and our President, Congress, and Senate.

From what my brother and others have told me that have served multiple times in Iraq/afganistan is that we have been in Iraq for years! We occupy many countries even today. Some destroyers almost had it in with IRAN the other day. It will lead to something with Iran and that will be bad.

[DividedThigh]

They won't come for you. They don't care about you. They care about the big military that is around taunting people and on their land.

If someone was on your soil...see you get upset but then it is ok with you if we go on theirs, blow up their lands, accidentally killed some woman and children and enforce our political system.

My question is: Why is it Ok for you to do that to people but they can't do it to you?

These such statements are made by hipocrites.

Sigh.

well we are gonna have to agree to disagree, cause you dont know me or anything about me, or you wouldnt talk like that, your an american your privelege bought by many peoples sacrifice, god bless, dt:drama

[DividedThigh]

Well repeated exposure to violence causes Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome. Not just war. But I believe had 9/11 not happened our military would not be in Iraq. But I also believe if we had not sent our military there more of the innocent people o. Iraq would have been tortured and killed than are the terrorist and the remnants of Sadaam's supporters that the military is fighting.
Just because someone supports the military doesn't mean they are warmongers. I think most Americans don't like war but are willing to support our military and our President, Congress, and Senate.

well said, dt:drama

[Walkbyfaith7]

well we are gonna have to agree to disagree, cause you dont know me or anything about me, or you wouldnt talk like that, your an american your privelege bought by many peoples sacrifice, god bless, dt:drama

How can you disagree?

You said: You wouldn't allow them on your soil to attack you. What does that mean? That means you would fight them and kill them right?

Well, guess what? We are on their soil, their land trying to spread out political system and enforce our miliary rules.

So what makes you think they wouldn't fight too?

[Cindy]

From what my brother and others have told me that have served multiple times in Iraq/afganistan is that we have been in Iraq for years! We occupy many countries even today. Some destroyers almost had it in with IRAN the other day. It will lead to something with Iran and that will be bad.


Where do you really expect the American military to be? Staying home? Of course we are in that part of the world. And did not Saudi Arabia ask for our help after the invasion of Kuwait? Where we are now is just an extension of that. And it is so simple to know that God uses men to ally with his people (Israel). And from my understanding America will not ever be condemning Israel but that Israel will be our only ally at some point in the future.

[Ferd]

Thanks for serving in Destert Storm. But you are mistaken when it comes to this topic.

These people are fighting because of their God, Allah. It is more than in Iraq, more than Iran, more than Pakistan, more than in Europe and now they are starting to increase in number in the USA. These people want all the Jews killed. These people want all the allies of the Jews killed. Prophecy says that all nations will come against who? Jersusalem and that mean the USA too. So before you are too patriotic you might want to consider this very country will end up fighting against the Lord's first chosen people.

LOL! they are bad, they want us dead, we should not fight them.


im confused. exactly how do you stop these people if you dont fight them? LOL!

crazy.

Im corn fused.

[DividedThigh]

LOL! they are bad, they want us dead, we should not fight them.


im confused. exactly how do you stop these people if you dont fight them? LOL!

crazy.

Im corn fused.

lol, that s my friend ferd, honest and funny, dt:scripture

[scotty]

I say everyone who is for the war in Iraq should be allowed to sign up for the military!

Old or young, lame or walking. Somehow those that want the war should all be responsible for the war.

Some right wing Christians are not aware of what mental health is and how the soldiers are coming back really messed up witd PTSD.

Been there, done that , got the shirt...whats your point.

[Ferd]

lol, that s my friend ferd, honest and funny, dt:scripture

I just LOVE that argument!

THEY WILL KILL US !!!!!!!!

Run for the hills! dont fight them! we have to get outta there!

we are going to make them mad! oh know!


What happened? Did half of America become french?

[DividedThigh]

I just LOVE that argument!

THEY WILL KILL US !!!!!!!!

Run for the hills! dont fight them! we have to get outta there!

we are going to make them mad! oh know!


What happened? Did half of America become french?

yeah well when they do come for him, i will be busy defending my own, they are a little french arent they, lol, i am italian , lol dt

[Cindy]

LOL! they are bad, they want us dead, we should not fight them.


im confused. exactly how do you stop these people if you dont fight them? LOL!

crazy.

Im corn fused.

Ferd I am going to say this, it's not about war but is about defense. I live in a rural area, at one time we had maybe one or two relatively close neighbors. Burglars were going around stealing guns from peoples homes while they were at work. I was at that time the only stay at home mom close by. And yes we have guns. Anyway I saw 2 people trying to go in one of my neighbors windows. So I hollered at them and asked them what they thought they were doing. They said oh we know them and they said if we came by to just come on in. The doors were locked so we were just gonna go in a window. I am not stupid so I told them I had called the sheriff before I confronted them. I am not quite 5" tall and weighed about 95 lbs. They took off because I had my 12 gauge in my hands. A deputy came by and took a report and we talked some and I asked him what should I do if someone tried to break in my house. He said let them come all the way in and shoot them. You could shoot them before or during but it's best to let them get inside for self defense purposes I guess. Of course I live in Texas and we are a whole nother country.

[DividedThigh]

Ferd I am going to say this, it's not about war but is about defense. I live in a rural area, at one time we had maybe one or two relatively close neighbors. Burglars were going around stealing guns from peoples homes while they were at work. I was at that time the only stay at home mom close by. And yes we have guns. Anyway I saw 2 people trying to go in one of my neighbors windows. So I hollered at them and asked them what they thought they were doing. They said oh we know them and they said if we came by to just come on in. The doors were locked so we were just gonna go in a window. I am not stupid so I told them I had called the sheriff before I confronted them. I am not quite 5" tall and weighed about 95 lbs. They took off because I had my 12 gauge in my hands. A deputy came by and took a report and we talked some and I asked him what should I do if someone tried to break in my house. He said let them come all the way in and shoot them. You could shoot them before or during but it's best to let them get inside for self defense purposes I guess. Of course I live in Texas and we are a whole nother country.
guess i better move to texas, lol,dt:drama

[Ferd]

Ferd I am going to say this, it's not about war but is about defense. I live in a rural area, at one time we had maybe one or two relatively close neighbors. Burglars were going around stealing guns from peoples homes while they were at work. I was at that time the only stay at home mom close by. And yes we have guns. Anyway I saw 2 people trying to go in one of my neighbors windows. So I hollered at them and asked them what they thought they were doing. They said oh we know them and they said if we came by to just come on in. The doors were locked so we were just gonna go in a window. I am not stupid so I told them I had called the sheriff before I confronted them. I am not quite 5" tall and weighed about 95 lbs. They took off because I had my 12 gauge in my hands. A deputy came by and took a report and we talked some and I asked him what should I do if someone tried to break in my house. He said let them come all the way in and shoot them. You could shoot them before or during but it's best to let them get inside for self defense purposes I guess. Of course I live in Texas and we are a whole nother country.
I live in Texas too. the law has changed recently. Now you could have shot that guy going in the neighbors house.

back when that happened, you would have to go before a grand jury.

bottom line, we have really tightened up in Iraq and the violence has decreased. we killed the bad guys and this time didnt leave any place for them to hide. if we keep up the heat in Iraq, that place will settle down.

for those that want a full pull out, remember we are still in Germany 60 years after the end of WW2.

[DividedThigh]

I live in Texas too. the law has changed recently. Now you could have shot that guy going in the neighbors house.

back when that happened, you would have to go before a grand jury.

bottom line, we have really tightened up in Iraq and the violence has decreased. we killed the bad guys and this time didnt leave any place for them to hide. if we keep up the heat in Iraq, that place will settle down.

for those that want a full pull out, remember we are still in Germany 60 years after the end of WW2.

be careful ferd the peaceniks cant deal with reality and a good dose of history, to much peace pipe or something, lol, dt:happydance

[Walkbyfaith7]

be careful ferd the peaceniks cant deal with reality and a good dose of history, to much peace pipe or something, lol, dt:happydance

Of course you have to forget the commandments of our Lord when you kill people, right?

[scotty]

They won't come for you. They don't care about you. They care about the big military that is around taunting people and on their land.

If someone was on your soil...see you get upset but then it is ok with you if we go on theirs, blow up their lands, accidentally killed some woman and children and enforce our political system.

My question is: Why is it Ok for you to do that to people but they can't do it to you?

These such statements are made by hipocrites.

Sigh.


WMD's ? Nope. Nukes? Nope. Terrorist? Nope. So why did we go? Ohhh yeah! Biological weapons Sadam was using on his own people. Mass graves of hundreds of thousands of men, women and children. A dictator that picked women off the street to play with in his rape-room. Thousands of dollars given to Palastinian terror groups to blow up civilians in Israel. Come on people, did we do it right? No. Should we be doing it? Yes. Bush offered twice the troops when we first went in and the commanders on the ground said "we don't need that many" They should have took the offer. We did not have enough troops to secure what we were occupying. And yes we are now the police until the Iraqi government can provide it's own. Front Page says 5 died today. Yet I have to "literally" dig through Yahoo,MSN, to find the story about the orphanage we raided were we found hundreds of children bound, naked and sexually abused by insurgents. Or the stories of the schools and hospitals "we" are building. (We is emphasized due to me being a member of the US Navy Seabees Construction Battalion)Troops playing with children or feeding the poor. Look, Bush is not the best we have had. But he is the best there was to choose from. He did not come into office knowing 9/11 was going to happen or knowing some rogue dictator was going to build nukes to "wipe a country off the face of the map". He came into office to lower taxes and build the economy which he did, and quite well I might add,. It offends me for you people to sit over here and say " its all for nothing". This website could not hold the stories of thankful Iraqi's I could talk about. I will gladly pick up my weapon again and go share a candy bar with an Iraqi child or knock some more doors down, kill 2 or 3 armed thugs and pull the woman from the back room, bleeding from between the legs, and carry her to a waiting ambulance. If that were your sister you might see things differently. If it were your mother going to the grocery store one day just to be taken off the street by the president of this country and raped for days at a time then maybe you would be the one praying everynight for someone, anyone, to come take the nightmare away. But instead you wake up every morning wondering what flavor latte you will have, while they wake every morning wondering which family member they will bury today. For the most part this war has no effect on your lives whatsoever.

The economy is good, the market is strong and the illegal immigrants are still a pain in the butt, but I get up to a sunrise, wake and have breakfast with my daughter before taking her to school and kiss my wife good morning. WHY? Because I killed some people over there that don't want me to have this. One day I will go back again and I might take a bullet this time, but I do so knowing it's because I want my family and all of you to go on enjoying the above. You want to open a forum about the war?, open it to troops and the citizens of Iraq, those who are effected by it. As for the rest of you, open a forum to gripe about the price of a latte, I've given you the right and freedom to that.

I relinqish the stump for I am done.

[scotty]

Who is the most military minded?

In other words; Which candidates is more willing, ready to kick some Tali ban butt and protect our borders?


Personally I would like to see Huckabee as President, but as far as who would be the best in the war on terror? I would have to say McCain. It was his "surge" idea that is doing so well over there now. Should have been done in the beggining

[DividedThigh]

Of course you have to forget the commandments of our Lord when you kill people, right?

you crack me up, that moderate, i mean liberal thread is your place right, lol,dt:drama

[DividedThigh]

WMD's ? Nope. Nukes? Nope. Terrorist? Nope. So why did we go? Ohhh yeah! Biological weapons Sadam was using on his own people. Mass graves of hundreds of thousands of men, women and children. A dictator that picked women off the street to play with in his rape-room. Thousands of dollars given to Palastinian terror groups to blow up civilians in Israel. Come on people, did we do it right? No. Should we be doing it? Yes. Bush offered twice the troops when we first went in and the commanders on the ground said "we don't need that many" They should have took the offer. We did not have enough troops to secure what we were occupying. And yes we are now the police until the Iraqi government can provide it's own. Front Page says 5 died today. Yet I have to "literally" dig through Yahoo,MSN, to find the story about the orphanage we raided were we found hundreds of children bound, naked and sexually abused by insurgents. Or the stories of the schools and hospitals "we" are building. (We is emphasized due to me being a member of the US Navy Seabees Construction Battalion)Troops playing with children or feeding the poor. Look, Bush is not the best we have had. But he is the best there was to choose from. He did not come into office knowing 9/11 was going to happen or knowing some rogue dictator was going to build nukes to "wipe a country off the face of the map". He came into office to lower taxes and build the economy which he did, and quite well I might add,. It offends me for you people to sit over here and say " its all for nothing". This website could not hold the stories of thankful Iraqi's I could talk about. I will gladly pick up my weapon again and go share a candy bar with an Iraqi child or knock some more doors down, kill 2 or 3 armed thugs and pull the woman from the back room, bleeding from between the legs, and carry her to a waiting ambulance. If that were your sister you might see things differently. If it were your mother going to the grocery store one day just to be taken off the street by the president of this country and raped for days at a time then maybe you would be the one praying everynight for someone, anyone, to come take the nightmare away. But instead you wake up every morning wondering what flavor latte you will have, while they wake every morning wondering which family member they will bury today. For the most part this war has no effect on your lives whatsoever.

The economy is good, the market is strong and the illegal immigrants are still a pain in the butt, but I get up to a sunrise, wake and have breakfast with my daughter before taking her to school and kiss my wife good morning. WHY? Because I killed some people over there that don't want me to have this. One day I will go back again and I might take a bullet this time, but I do so knowing it's because I want my family and all of you to go on enjoying the above. You want to open a forum about the war?, open it to troops and the citizens of Iraq, those who are effected by it. As for the rest of you, open a forum to gripe about the price of a latte, I've given you the right and freedom to that.

I relinqish the stump for I am done.

thanks for your service bro, god bless you and yours, dt

[Ferd]

WMD's ? Nope. Nukes? Nope. Terrorist? Nope. So why did we go? Ohhh yeah! Biological weapons Sadam was using on his own people. Mass graves of hundreds of thousands of men, women and children. A dictator that picked women off the street to play with in his rape-room. Thousands of dollars given to Palastinian terror groups to blow up civilians in Israel. Come on people, did we do it right? No. Should we be doing it? Yes. Bush offered twice the troops when we first went in and the commanders on the ground said "we don't need that many" They should have took the offer. We did not have enough troops to secure what we were occupying. And yes we are now the police until the Iraqi government can provide it's own. Front Page says 5 died today. Yet I have to "literally" dig through Yahoo,MSN, to find the story about the orphanage we raided were we found hundreds of children bound, naked and sexually abused by insurgents. Or the stories of the schools and hospitals "we" are building. (We is emphasized due to me being a member of the US Navy Seabees Construction Battalion)Troops playing with children or feeding the poor. Look, Bush is not the best we have had. But he is the best there was to choose from. He did not come into office knowing 9/11 was going to happen or knowing some rogue dictator was going to build nukes to "wipe a country off the face of the map". He came into office to lower taxes and build the economy which he did, and quite well I might add,. It offends me for you people to sit over here and say " its all for nothing". This website could not hold the stories of thankful Iraqi's I could talk about. I will gladly pick up my weapon again and go share a candy bar with an Iraqi child or knock some more doors down, kill 2 or 3 armed thugs and pull the woman from the back room, bleeding from between the legs, and carry her to a waiting ambulance. If that were your sister you might see things differently. If it were your mother going to the grocery store one day just to be taken off the street by the president of this country and raped for days at a time then maybe you would be the one praying everynight for someone, anyone, to come take the nightmare away. But instead you wake up every morning wondering what flavor latte you will have, while they wake every morning wondering which family member they will bury today. For the most part this war has no effect on your lives whatsoever.

The economy is good, the market is strong and the illegal immigrants are still a pain in the butt, but I get up to a sunrise, wake and have breakfast with my daughter before taking her to school and kiss my wife good morning. WHY? Because I killed some people over there that don't want me to have this. One day I will go back again and I might take a bullet this time, but I do so knowing it's because I want my family and all of you to go on enjoying the above. You want to open a forum about the war?, open it to troops and the citizens of Iraq, those who are effected by it. As for the rest of you, open a forum to gripe about the price of a latte, I've given you the right and freedom to that.

I relinqish the stump for I am done.


well said my friend. well said.

[Ferd]

Personally I would like to see Huckabee as President, but as far as who would be the best in the war on terror? I would have to say McCain. It was his "surge" idea that is doing so well over there now. Should have been done in the beggining

If GWB made a mistake it was putting Rummy in the DOD. His view of military was wrong. he wants to shrink it and become more hit and run.

in Iraq we were repeating the tacktics of vietnam. the current surge is working finally Rummy is gone and a general who knows how to win without being handcuffed by the Secretary of Defense is in charge.

you have not yet sold me on huck... i am still leaning towards him but im not ready to commit.

[Walkbyfaith7]

WMD's ? Nope. Nukes? Nope. Terrorist? Nope. So why did we go? Ohhh yeah! Biological weapons Sadam was using on his own people. Mass graves of hundreds of thousands of men, women and children. A dictator that picked women off the street to play with in his rape-room. Thousands of dollars given to Palastinian terror groups to blow up civilians in Israel. Come on people, did we do it right? No. Should we be doing it? Yes. Bush offered twice the troops when we first went in and the commanders on the ground said "we don't need that many" They should have took the offer. We did not have enough troops to secure what we were occupying. And yes we are now the police until the Iraqi government can provide it's own. Front Page says 5 died today. Yet I have to "literally" dig through Yahoo,MSN, to find the story about the orphanage we raided were we found hundreds of children bound, naked and sexually abused by insurgents. Or the stories of the schools and hospitals "we" are building. (We is emphasized due to me being a member of the US Navy Seabees Construction Battalion)Troops playing with children or feeding the poor. Look, Bush is not the best we have had. But he is the best there was to choose from. He did not come into office knowing 9/11 was going to happen or knowing some rogue dictator was going to build nukes to "wipe a country off the face of the map". He came into office to lower taxes and build the economy which he did, and quite well I might add,. It offends me for you people to sit over here and say " its all for nothing". This website could not hold the stories of thankful Iraqi's I could talk about. I will gladly pick up my weapon again and go share a candy bar with an Iraqi child or knock some more doors down, kill 2 or 3 armed thugs and pull the woman from the back room, bleeding from between the legs, and carry her to a waiting ambulance. If that were your sister you might see things differently. If it were your mother going to the grocery store one day just to be taken off the street by the president of this country and raped for days at a time then maybe you would be the one praying everynight for someone, anyone, to come take the nightmare away. But instead you wake up every morning wondering what flavor latte you will have, while they wake every morning wondering which family member they will bury today. For the most part this war has no effect on your lives whatsoever.

The economy is good, the market is strong and the illegal immigrants are still a pain in the butt, but I get up to a sunrise, wake and have breakfast with my daughter before taking her to school and kiss my wife good morning. WHY? Because I killed some people over there that don't want me to have this. One day I will go back again and I might take a bullet this time, but I do so knowing it's because I want my family and all of you to go on enjoying the above. You want to open a forum about the war?, open it to troops and the citizens of Iraq, those who are effected by it. As for the rest of you, open a forum to gripe about the price of a latte, I've given you the right and freedom to that.

I relinqish the stump for I am done.

Your argument: We need to police the world and fight those governments and countries who are evil

My argument: 1.) Is that what our constitution says this country was formed for?

2.) Do you realized that Iraq is just one place out of many where these things go on? You think Iraq is the only places where injustice happens?
We DO NOT have the capacity to help the whole world and to police it as the moral country. You need to read about about all the other countries that have the same types of problems morally and militarily. Bottom line is we can't do it.

We only police the ones we feel we can do without going into a world war.

3.) My freedom is not based upon Iraq. There is no one that there that can take this country from us. My freedom was not given because of Vietnam. My freedom I can credit parly to my grandfather for WW2 because Hilter was almost had Britian and we would have been probably next.

We have alot going on here in American that deserves our attention.

[Walkbyfaith7]

WMD's ? Nope. Nukes? Nope. Terrorist? Nope. So why did we go? Ohhh yeah! Biological weapons Sadam was using on his own people. Mass graves of hundreds of thousands of men, women and children..

I relinqish the stump for I am done.

And your fact is wrong too: We went because of WMD then we found none.
Do you need to be dig up facts?

[scotty]

If GWB made a mistake it was putting Rummy in the DOD. His view of military was wrong. he wants to shrink it and become more hit and run.

in Iraq we were repeating the tacktics of vietnam. the current surge is working finally Rummy is gone and a general who knows how to win without being handcuffed by the Secretary of Defense is in charge.

you have not yet sold me on huck... i am still leaning towards him but im not ready to commit.

Understandable , he has great ideas for economic and social, but no experience in forgien policy , I am starting to lean towards McCain just for that , it will be another term or two before we can settle down in this war stance. Would love to see McCain-Pres. Huckabee-VP...

[Ferd]

Understandable , he has great ideas for economic and social, but no experience in forgien policy , I am starting to lean towards McCain just for that , it will be another term or two before we can settle down in this war stance. Would love to see McCain-Pres. Huckabee-VP...

I will not support McCain for president. The only thing he is right on is the War. there are other options that are more right on other things than McCain. Huck has some understanding of the way of the world. he has access to the best minds as well.

McCain will NOT appoint strict constructionists to the supreme court, and the next president will be replacing the most liberal judge on the court. (John Paul Stevens) and likely the centrist "swing vote" Justice Kennedy.

Beyond that, McCain is not a conservitive on taxation, has been consistantly wrong on campaign finance reform, and I doubt will stand up for the first amendment.

I would rather take my chances with Rudy or Mitt or Huck than McCain. I will however, support who ever the republican party nominates.

[scotty]

And your fact is wrong too: We went because of WMD then we found none.
Do you need to be dig up facts?

No sir , you like all other liberals like you need to go back and read the speech he gave, there were 8 different reasons he listed for going in , but the only thing you people want to center on is the WMD's. That is Bush Bashing, period. no matter what he does you will center on the negative.

[Pragmatist]

Any of the republicans will be OK on the war. any of the dems are cowards.

I couldn't believe the Democrats during the debate Saturday night. After Gibson (moderator) pointed out that the surge was working, ALL 4 candidates denied it. I'm seriously frightened for any of them to be in charge.

[Walkbyfaith7]

No sir , you like all other liberals like you need to go back and read the speech he gave, there were 8 different reasons he listed for going in , but the only thing you people want to center on is the WMD's. That is Bush Bashing, period. no matter what he does you will center on the negative.

Call be liberal because the president either lied or made a mistake when saying they had WMD? HA!

I'm far from liberal my friend and I haven't drank the coolaid either like some have.

[DividedThigh]

I couldn't believe the Democrats during the debate Saturday night. After Gibson (moderator) pointed out that the surge was working, ALL 4 candidates denied it. I'm seriously frightened for any of them to be in charge.

good point prag, all of them are scary, since they make up there minds with polls and the wind, lol,dt:drama

[Ferd]

I couldn't believe the Democrats during the debate Saturday night. After Gibson (moderator) pointed out that the surge was working, ALL 4 candidates denied it. I'm seriously frightened for any of them to be in charge.

well, the only democrate that is even qualified to be President is Bill Richardson. the rest are just names in empty suits. Hillary talks about 35 years of change. I havent yet seen anything she has "changed" she cant even change her playboy husband!

John Edwards is a crybaby and Obama hasnt really done anything more than get elected to the Senate.

[scotty]

Your argument: We need to police the world and fight those governments and countries who are evil

No where in my post have I said this

My argument: 1.) Is that what our constitution says this country was formed for?

2.) Do you realized that Iraq is just one place out of many where these things go on? You think Iraq is the only places where injustice happens?
We DO NOT have the capacity to help the whole world and to police it as the moral country. You need to read about about all the other countries that have the same types of problems morally and militarily. Bottom line is we can't do it.

You are partially right here, and this confuses me. Your group says we shouldn't be out there doing this in the world yet in the same breath stand up in congress and complain because we are not in Darfur.

We only police the ones we feel we can do without going into a world war.

Sounds like a good strategy to me

3.) My freedom is not based upon Iraq. There is no one that there that can take this country from us. My freedom was not given because of Vietnam. My freedom I can credit parly to my grandfather for WW2 because Hilter was almost had Britian and we would have been probably next.

So wrong here brother, because we are over there, they are over there fighting us. They know if they lose over there they will lose support among the islamic world therefore they are dumping everything they have into Iraq, Afganistan and Israel. Otherwise they would be here fighting this war. So yes sir, if I have a choice between my backyard or theirs , I will chose theirs.

We have alot going on here in American that deserves our attention.

then write your representatives and tell them you want community support and not pork barrel spending on parks and conservation to save the local toad frog.


a

[Walkbyfaith7]

Originally Posted by Walkbyfaith7
Your argument: We need to police the world and fight those governments and countries who are evil

No where in my post have I said this

My argument: 1.) Is that what our constitution says this country was formed for?

2.) Do you realized that Iraq is just one place out of many where these things go on? You think Iraq is the only places where injustice happens?
We DO NOT have the capacity to help the whole world and to police it as the moral country. You need to read about about all the other countries that have the same types of problems morally and militarily. Bottom line is we can't do it.

You are partially right here, and this confuses me. Your group says we shouldn't be out there doing this in the world yet in the same breath stand up in congress and complain because we are not in Darfur.

*******My group? Who is my group? **********

We only police the ones we feel we can do without going into a world war.

Sounds like a good strategy to me

******Sounds like a bulling strategy to me. Only do it to those who can't defend themselves to the point of victory. USA the big bully*****

3.) My freedom is not based upon Iraq. There is no one that there that can take this country from us. My freedom was not given because of Vietnam. My freedom I can credit parly to my grandfather for WW2 because Hilter was almost had Britian and we would have been probably next.

So wrong here brother, because we are over there, they are over there fighting us. They know if they lose over there they will lose support among the islamic world therefore they are dumping everything they have into Iraq, Afganistan and Israel. Otherwise they would be here fighting this war. So yes sir, if I have a choice between my backyard or theirs , I will chose theirs.

*****Who is THEY? It's certainly not the country of Iraq. We are trying to put an america in Iraq by bulling. This is not why went first took military action after 9-11******

We have alot going on here in American that deserves our attention.

then write your representatives and tell them you want community support and not pork barrel spending on parks and conservation to save the local toad frog.

****Hey, now you are showing off you biological knowledge. An ecosystem is important to maintain. *****Edited by Admin******

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by Walkbyfaith7
****Hey, now you are showing off you biological knowledge. An ecosystem is important to maintain. You must be white?********

Walkbyfaith7, I think you need to clarify this statement.

[Walkbyfaith7]

Walkbyfaith7, I think you need to clarify this statement.

It is a statement and then a question.

[Ferd]

It is a statement and then a question.

I am more interested in you putting some context to the question. what does his race have to do with anything?

[Walkbyfaith7]

I am more interested in you putting some context to the question. what does his race have to do with anything?

I don't know his race, do you?

[DividedThigh]

I am more interested in you putting some context to the question. what does his race have to do with anything?

now there is an answer i would like to hear, dt:drama

[scotty]

It is a statement and then a question.

Neither of which make sense.

Look, once again in your response you point to WMD's but do not address the other reasons,

"They" are the terrorist.

Your "group" are liberals who only want to bash a president without recognition of facts.

[Walkbyfaith7]

Neither of which make sense.

Look, once again in your response you point to WMD's but do not address the other reasons,

"They" are the terrorist.

Your "group" are liberals who only want to bash a president without recognition of facts.

Who did we first go after as a result from 9-11? Was it Iraq?

[scotty]

Who did we first go after as a result from 9-11? Was it Iraq?

Nope , Afganistan, whats that got to do with Iraq....nothing.

Can we link Sadam to 9/11 ,,,no
can we link Sadam to terrerism....yes

[Walkbyfaith7]

Nope , Afganistan, whats that got to do with Iraq....nothing.

Can we link Sadam to 9/11 ,,,no
can we link Sadam to terrerism....yes

Terrerism? Is that with an accent?
:search

[Ferd]

Walkbyfaith, seriously you need to address the question you asked Scotty.

you need to explain yourself.

[Ferd]

On point,

Saddam used WMDs and killed tens of thousands of people with them, thus proving his willingness to do so.

Saddam stated he wanted the US to be distroyed.

Saddam was connected to terrorists.

ergo...

[Walkbyfaith7]

Walkbyfaith, seriously you need to address the question you asked Scotty.

you need to explain yourself.

I address the question but got no answer.

Move on to the subject at hand.

[Walkbyfaith7]

On point,

Saddam used WMDs and killed tens of thousands of people with them, thus proving his willingness to do so.

Saddam stated he wanted the US to be distroyed.

Saddam was connected to terrorists.

ergo...

I am talking about the original intend of the adminstration to go after the people that caused 9-11. These people were mostly from where....do you know?

[Ferd]

I am talking about the original intend of the adminstration to go after the people that caused 9-11. These people were mostly from where....do you know?

misdirection. and not worth discussing. of course i know where they are from, and no that doesnt mean we need to invade an ally.

[Walkbyfaith7]

misdirection. and not worth discussing. of course i know where they are from, and no that doesnt mean we need to invade an ally.

That is why we don't need to destroy a country because of some people that are in it, like Saudi Arabia, Iraq, etc.

If you think people in Saudi Arabia really like USA well, I guess you can believe a lie.

[Ferd]

That is why we don't need to destroy a country because of some people that are in it, like Saudi Arabia, Iraq, etc.

If you think people in Saudi Arabia really like USA well, I guess you can believe a lie.

Dude, you are too hard to follow. who said what you said i believe? crazy.


the point here is that your question is a boondoggle! where the attackers on 9/11 are from is pointless!

[scotty]

That is why we don't need to destroy a country because of some people that are in it, like Saudi Arabia, Iraq, etc.

If you think people in Saudi Arabia really like USA well, I guess you can believe a lie.


We know this, but you still have no case. Saudi Arabia does not mass murder its own people. Nor do they "intentionally" harbor terrorism.

Talk about drinking kool-aid...

And what does my race have to with it? I am curious.

[SoCaliUPC]

I am not going to vote for someone who thinks the only weapon we have is "talking to the individual" and "talk sense to them." Therefore, I will NOT be voting for a demoncrat.

[Ferd]

I am not going to vote for someone who thinks the only weapon we have is "talking to the individual" and "talk sense to them." Therefore, I will NOT be voting for a demoncrat.

Tell em SoCali!

[Cindy]

Fanatics do not know how to reason.

[TRFrance]

I'll ask and answer the question this way:

Who would the terrorists most like to see elected president?
(Obama or Edwards)

Who would they least like to see?

(Giuliani)



...

[Walkbyfaith7]

Dude, you are too hard to follow. who said what you said i believe? crazy.


the point here is that your question is a boondoggle! where the attackers on 9/11 are from is pointless!

You said our ally and that implies Saudi Arabia, correct?

You really think these guys approve of you and the USA? HAHAHAHA
They think we are infidels. It's just a ploy to get rich of their product: Oil.

They do not think highly about us.

[John Atkinson]

I was against the invasion of Iraq, thought it wasn't necessary.

But, we are there so now I am for giving our guys all the tools needed for the job.

I am also for the next time that chimp looking nutjob in Tehran sends his little boats out to monkey with my Navy that we blow them out of the water and launch fifty or so tomahawks at the presidential palace in Tehran to let the slob know: "You mess with the bull, you get the horn"


I know, I know....politcally untenable...yadda yadda...shame on you..blah blah blah..

[Cindy]

Um I don't think that WBF sees the connection of all that Bro. A. And what about when they bombed the marine base in Lebanon. It's all connected. And They started it. We are just defending ourselves and our allies.

[Ferd]

I was against the invasion of Iraq, thought it wasn't necessary.

But, we are there so now I am for giving our guys all the tools needed for the job.

I am also for the next time that chimp looking nutjob in Tehran sends his little boats out to monkey with my Navy that we blow them out of the water and launch fifty or so tomahawks at the presidential palace in Tehran to let the slob know: "You mess with the bull, you get the horn"


I know, I know....politcally untenable...yadda yadda...shame on you..blah blah blah..

You tell em Brother A!

[COOPER]

I'll ask and answer the question this way:

Who would the terrorists most like to see elected president?
(Obama or Edwards)

Who would they least like to see?

(Giuliani)



...
Good point!

[scotty]

Originally Posted by TRFrance http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?p=350714#post350714)
I'll ask and answer the question this way:

Who would the terrorists most like to see elected president?
(Obama or Edwards)

Who would they least like to see?

(Giuliani)


I think these could be

1. any democrat

2. any republican (except maybe romney)

remember it was McCain that suggested the surge that is working in the first place..He has said from the beggining we needed more troops in Iraq and Afganistan and he is right, go in with force, do the job and get out.

[ChristopherHall]

I don't see anyone who is capable of dealing with this. Terrorism is the wave of the future and it's here to stay. Anything we do can and will feed the cause to breed more terrorists. If we engage in more widespread open warfare we will breed terrorists. If we become more reserved and act diplomatically they will see it as an act of weakness and we will breed more terrorists.

Whoever becomes president will not change this. The terrorists will exploit whatever we do for their cause. In this brave new world terrorism is here to stay. The only strategy to combat it is more secure boarders, more secure identification, more security, and eternal vigilance from this day forward.

[COOPER]

I don't see anyone who is capable of dealing with this. Terrorism is the wave of the future and it's here to stay. Anything we do can and will feed the cause to breed more terrorists. If we engage in more widespread open warfare we will breed terrorists. If we become more reserved and act diplomatically they will see it as an act of weakness and we will breed more terrorists.

Whoever becomes president will not change this. The terrorists will exploit whatever we do for their cause. In this brave new world terrorism is here to stay. The only strategy to combat it is more secure boarders, more secure identification, more security, and eternal vigilance from this day forward.
Could you Imagine if America was evil as them?

About fifty Nukes in the whole region would keep the roaches down for a while.

[John Atkinson]

You tell em Brother A!
Hey, these whack jobs want a magic carpet ride to allah, i say we help them in every way possible.

[COOPER]

Hey, these whack jobs want a magic carpet ride to allah, i say we help them in every way possible.

:happydance You said it!

[Ferd]

I don't see anyone who is capable of dealing with this. Terrorism is the wave of the future and it's here to stay. Anything we do can and will feed the cause to breed more terrorists. If we engage in more widespread open warfare we will breed terrorists. If we become more reserved and act diplomatically they will see it as an act of weakness and we will breed more terrorists.

Whoever becomes president will not change this. The terrorists will exploit whatever we do for their cause. In this brave new world terrorism is here to stay. The only strategy to combat it is more secure boarders, more secure identification, more security, and eternal vigilance from this day forward.

here we go again "we cant beat them so lets hide!"

sad.

[Cindy]

Kind of sounds like when we had bomb shelters and drills at school in case Russia tried to bomb us back in the day.

[John Atkinson]

I don't see anyone who is capable of dealing with this. Terrorism is the wave of the future and it's here to stay. Anything we do can and will feed the cause to breed more terrorists. If we engage in more widespread open warfare we will breed terrorists. If we become more reserved and act diplomatically they will see it as an act of weakness and we will breed more terrorists.

Whoever becomes president will not change this. The terrorists will exploit whatever we do for their cause. In this brave new world terrorism is here to stay. The only strategy to combat it is more secure boarders, more secure identification, more security, and eternal vigilance from this day forward.
So your answer is a Police State?

Nope. the answer is to frag the freaks and anyone who is supporting them, Terrorists operating in {insert country here}? Bummer for you {insert country here}. You should really secure your country.

We are the United States of America, little more than 60 years ago we took down two military super powers simultaneously. Now we are going to run and hide and change our free republic because of some nut cases wearing bed sheets?

Please note: There have been no terorist attacks on US soil since 9/11, not one. We must be doing something right.

[Ferd]

So your answer is a Police State?

Nope. the answer is to frag the freaks and anyone is supporting them, Terrorists operating in {insert country here}? Bummer for you {insert country here}. You should really secure your country.

Please note: There have been no terorist attacks on US soil since 9/11, not one. We must be doing something right.

I like to call it "Parking Lot Deplomacy"

you pick a country that is causeing issues, you blow up everything, buldoze it flat, the pour cement over the entire thing and stripe it off like a parking lot.

then you simply ask "who is next"

[DividedThigh]

I like to call it "Parking Lot Deplomacy"

you pick a country that is causeing issues, you blow up everything, buldoze it flat, the pour cement over the entire thing and stripe it off like a parking lot.

then you simply ask "who is next"

you crack me up ferd, you are gonna stir up these libs, and get em all excited, lol,dt:reaction

[scotty]

He is right,,,,all that sand with some high heat ....be like a big glass parking lot
:nuke:nuke:nuke:nuke:nuke:nuke:nuke

[John Atkinson]

I like to call it "Parking Lot Deplomacy"

you pick a country that is causeing issues, you blow up everything, buldoze it flat, the pour cement over the entire thing and stripe it off like a parking lot.

then you simply ask "who is next"
It works a whole lot better than being a pack of politically correct pansies trying to apease everybody.

[COOPER]

It works a whole lot better than being a pack of politically correct pansies trying to apease everybody.
Thats what I'm talk'n about!

[Ferd]

It works a whole lot better than being a pack of politically correct pansies trying to apease everybody.

That is what I am saying. dead men blow nothing up.

[COOPER]

That is what I am saying. dead men blow nothing up.
Hey Ferd, That pic of the young Cowboy is too cool!

[Ferd]

Hey Ferd, That pic of the young Cowboy is too cool!

Thanks. that is my little boy. my wife took it.

[ChristopherHall]

So your answer is a Police State?

Nope. the answer is to frag the freaks and anyone who is supporting them, Terrorists operating in {insert country here}? Bummer for you {insert country here}. You should really secure your country.

We are the United States of America, little more than 60 years ago we took down two military super powers simultaneously. Now we are going to run and hide and change our free republic because of some nut cases wearing bed sheets?

Please note: There have been no terorist attacks on US soil since 9/11, not one. We must be doing something right.

Bro...the terrorist attacks prevented on US soil are a direct result of excellent domestic counter terrorist efforts.

You frag 50 terrorists. In the eyes of their people, they become martyrs. Let's say on average each has 3 children, now you have 150 children growing up with fervently hatred for America and another 200 are inspired to die for their cause against "The American aggressor."...these will be the terrorists of tomorrow.

The strategy of dealing with a Super Power and terrorism is totally different. For example the entire USSR was dependent upon the economic and political infrastructure of the Kremlin. We cracked it and it crumbled. Terrorism is home grown. Today a dozen men may decide to be terrorists and suicide bombers. These dozen men may not even been connected in any way. You can't financially cripple them, they fight with home made bombs and weapons sold by dealers. Instead of fighting one bear...it's more like fighting a swarm of killer bees. You can kill a number of them...you can even blow up a hive...but a hives exist elsewhere and new hives will be built quickly. It will take continual vigilance. Do you only treat for bees and hornets with one gigantic extermination effort...or do you have to maintain a constant look out for the pests? It's going to take eternal vigilance from this day forward. With travel and technology, the world has grown smaller. Now were dealing with something other nations have been dealing with for decades, and some, centuries. We'll catch on eventually.

We have to insulate our country, our boarders, our transportation systems, our internal security efforts. Frankly, there are domestic counter terrorist efforts being conducted by the CIA, FBI, and various law enforcement agencies that are in dire need of more funding. In a sense we're short changing domestic efforts to play nation builder in the desert. Overseas operations should be strategic surgical strikes at confirmed terrorist targets. We don't go around pre-emptively invading nations at will. That only justifies the terrorists propaganda.

I was in the military John, ever sit in a briefing prior to a domestic terrorism response training exercise? Ever train for responding to a sniper in an urban theater of war? Bro..."frag em" isn't a sound defense policy. Secure the boarders and keep them out is. Strategically eliminate them where they are operating is. Pre-emptively bogging our military and resources down in a foreign country that didn't even attack us while we still have serious holes in our domestic security infrastructure is absolutely insane.

Ever, "frag", a man John? This isn't Hollywood.

[DividedThigh]

talkin sweet to these people only makes them think we are weak and vulnerable, they only understand strength, and willingness, someone has to have it, inho, dt:drama

[COOPER]

Bro...the terrorist attacks prevented on US soil are a direct result of excellent domestic counter terrorist efforts.

You frag 50 terrorists. In the eyes of their people, they become martyrs. Let's say on average each has 3 children, now you have 150 children growing up with fervently hatred for America and another 200 are inspired to die for their cause against "The American aggressor."...these will be the terrorists of tomorrow.

.


These people are a cancer to the free world.

They need radiation treatment.

[ChristopherHall]

talkin sweet to these people only makes them think we are weak and vulnerable, they only understand strength, and willingness, someone has to have it, inho, dt:drama

Wow. You guys are nuts. You have no idea what we're up against. Ever study the fall of Rome?

[ChristopherHall]

What do you think would be better...

Targeted, overwhelming, surgical strikes to kill confirmed terrorists and their leaders where ever they are.

Or...

Invading a nation without confirmed evidence justifying war, toppling it's government, funding it's rebuilding, and institute a weak government that will fall to the internal pressures of citizens who sympathize with the terrorists?

[DividedThigh]

Wow. You guys are nuts. You have no idea what we're up against. Ever study the fall of Rome?

i dont remember calling you names, please refrain from such nonsense, i am sure my education in history is the equal of yours since i taught high school history, dt:drama

[ChristopherHall]

Fighting a superpower is like fighting one bear, you wound it, bring it to it's knees and kill it. This is more like fighting a swarm of killer bees. You cannot kill every killer bee on the planet. You can only attack recognized hives and insulate your property. If you see a hive on your neighbor's property, warn him and assist him with the removal.

[ChristopherHall]

i dont remember calling you names, please refrain from such nonsense, i am sure my education in history is the equal of yours since it taught high school history, dt:drama

Excellent, the you should understand the parallel I'm driving for. What are your thoughts?

[DividedThigh]

Excellent, the you should understand the parallel I'm driving for. What are your thoughts?

discussing this any further with you, would be the equivalent of beating my head on the floor, since you only value the ideas you have, god bless you, be safe, and enjoy the freedoms i and my fellow patriots have afforded you, peace out, dt:drama

[COOPER]

What do you think would be better...

Targeted, overwhelming, surgical strikes to kill confirmed terrorists and their leaders where ever they are.

Or...

Invading a nation without confirmed evidence justifying war, toppling it's government, funding it's rebuilding, and institute a weak government that will fall to the internal pressures of citizens who sympathize with the terrorists?

Saddam was a loose canon, a Hitler to his own people. Bush did right.

We had to do something and that something was better than nothing.

War was justified on 9-11-01, that was evidence enough.

[ChristopherHall]

I believe that which ever candidate will boost domestic security measures, especially in relation to our boarders and any immigration activity from the Middle East or any know terrorist haven would be the best candidate. I'm not for spreading our military extra thin with unsustainable missions in a time like this.

[ChristopherHall]

discussing this any further with you, would be the equivalent of beating my head on the floor, since you only value the ideas you have, god bless you, be safe, and enjoy the freedoms i and my fellow patriots have afforded you, peace out, dt:drama

Patriots? Like I'm not a patriot. Divded...I served as a 19K (M1 Tank Crewman) and 91B10 (Combat Medical Specialist). I assure you I'm just as patriotic as you are. I'm just trying to illsutrate that this is more complicated than merely "frag 'em."

[ChristopherHall]

Saddam was a loose canon, a Hitler to his own people. Bush did right.

We had to do something and that something was better than nothing.

War was justified on 9-11-01, that was evidence enough.

Dude, you're ignorant of the facts. Yes, I'm glad Saddam is gone...but I want Bin Laden!

[DividedThigh]

Patriots? Like I'm not a patriot. Divded...I served as a 19K (M1 Tank Crewman) and 91B10 (Combat Medical Specialist). I assure you I'm just as patriotic as you are. I'm just trying to illsutrate that this is more complicated than merely "frag 'em."

i dont remember saying you werent, thanks for your service, dont assume anything at least when i talk, peace, dt:drama

[ChristopherHall]

We need to be a fortress...not an open camp with a chain link fence patrolled by Dobermans. Sure, those Dobermans are doing well right now...but eventually somethings going to get through and it won't be pretty.

The thing that allowed 9/11 to take place was weakened domestic security. Had they not been able to get in 3,000 Americans would be alive today.

[Ferd]

Bro...the terrorist attacks prevented on US soil are a direct result of excellent domestic counter terrorist efforts.

You frag 50 terrorists. In the eyes of their people, they become martyrs. Let's say on average each has 3 children, now you have 150 children growing up with fervently hatred for America and another 200 are inspired to die for their cause against "The American aggressor."...these will be the terrorists of tomorrow.

The strategy of dealing with a Super Power and terrorism is totally different. For example the entire USSR was dependent upon the economic and political infrastructure of the Kremlin. We cracked it and it crumbled. Terrorism is home grown. Today a dozen men may decide to be terrorists and suicide bombers. These dozen men may not even been connected in any way. You can't financially cripple them, they fight with home made bombs and weapons sold by dealers. Instead of fighting one bear...it's more like fighting a swarm of killer bees. You can kill a number of them...you can even blow up a hive...but a hives exist elsewhere and new hives will be built quickly. It will take continual vigilance. Do you only treat for bees and hornets with one gigantic extermination effort...or do you have to maintain a constant look out for the pests? It's going to take eternal vigilance from this day forward. With travel and technology, the world has grown smaller. Now were dealing with something other nations have been dealing with for decades, and some, centuries. We'll catch on eventually.

We have to insulate our country, our boarders, our transportation systems, our internal security efforts. Frankly, there are domestic counter terrorist efforts being conducted by the CIA, FBI, and various law enforcement agencies that are in dire need of more funding. In a sense we're short changing domestic efforts to play nation builder in the desert. Overseas operations should be strategic surgical strikes at confirmed terrorist targets. We don't go around pre-emptively invading nations at will. That only justifies the terrorists propaganda.

I was in the military John, ever sit in a briefing prior to a domestic terrorism response training exercise? Ever train for responding to a sniper in an urban theater of war? Bro..."frag em" isn't a sound defense policy. Secure the boarders and keep them out is. Strategically eliminate them where they are operating is. Pre-emptively bogging our military and resources down in a foreign country that didn't even attack us while we still have serious holes in our domestic security infrastructure is absolutely insane.

Ever, "frag", a man John? This isn't Hollywood.


Chris, you arent the only one who has served.... John and I have both served. Ive been in on a lot of training. i was in desert storm.

frag, nuke, blast, kill, distroy, what ever term you use, i dont care. the important thing is to make them understand if they hurt us, it will be worse for them.

[COOPER]

Fighting a superpower is like fighting one bear, you wound it, bring it to it's knees and kill it. This is more like fighting a swarm of killer bees. You cannot kill every killer bee on the planet. You can only attack recognized hives and insulate your property. If you see a hive on your neighbor's property, warn him and assist him with the removal.

Was America out of line when they bombed Japan?

[COOPER]

Dude, you're ignorant of the facts. Yes, I'm glad Saddam is gone...but I want Bin Laden!

Ignorant of what facts? If you have better facts, then serve America in the fight.

Are you FBI, CIA, Intelligents or anything useful to the cause?

You almost sound Anti-America and Bush in the war efforts.

[ChristopherHall]

Ignorant of what facts? If you have better facts, then serve America in the fight.

Are you FBI, CIA, Intelligents or anything useful to the cause?

You almost sound Anti-America and Bush in the war efforts.

Dude, I was in the military for 8 years. I had two MOS's during my time in. I served as a 19K (M1 Tank crewmen) and as a 91b10 (Combat Medical Specialist). What's you're problem bro? Are you or have you been in the military?

And yes...I think President Bush is "goofy" and often misguided, but I would do my job and take a bullet for him because he represents us, the American people. Also, I'm not Anti-American. Dude, you need to talk to someone about your anger issues man. lol

[ChristopherHall]

Was America out of line when they bombed Japan?

Japan was a bear. Terrorism is a massive swarm of killer bees bro.

Maybe I can explain it better...the Japanese were loyal to their imperial government. Topple the government and they surrender. Terrorists are loyal to ideology. Each cell has it's own ideology and therefore you can kill every man in Iraq...those with the ideology will continue on...they lost nothing by loosing Iraq. The Japanese wanted to rule territory and own resources. When faced with defeat that wanted to at least walk away with their lives and their families. Islamic terrorists believe that death is their highest honor. Surrender is a fate worse than death to them. This is not about territory or boarders, or resources...it's about ideology...thoughts, namely the Islamic Fundamentalist ideology. The only way to destroy all Islamic terrorists would be to eliminate all Muslims...which isn't a possibility. Therefore we have to take a defensive posture that has STRONG international alliances, allows for surgical strikes against confirmed threats, and insulates us through domestic security by preventing them from getting in. And we have to accept this isn't a war one can "win" and file for the history books. This is a war we will have to be vigilant in fighting from now until Jesus returns.

I think you're not catching on because in all of America's previous wars we've fought "nations"...we've never really had to face an ideology like this. This is a war without end bro.

[COOPER]

Japan was a bear. Terrorism is a massive swarm of killer bees bro.

America is a Bear too, Bears are thick skinned and are not affected by the swarm.

A bear takes the honey when ever he feels like it and there ain't nothing the swarm can do about it.

America is like a bee keeper as well, be keepers use smoke to control the bees.

It's time to smoke 'em and take the honey!

[Walkbyfaith7]

Was America out of line when they bombed Japan?

That is a tough one bro. I guess we could have waited for them to develop it and then use the bomb on US soil against us?

[ChristopherHall]

Chris, you arent the only one who has served.... John and I have both served. Ive been in on a lot of training. i was in desert storm.

frag, nuke, blast, kill, distroy, what ever term you use, i dont care. the important thing is to make them understand if they hurt us, it will be worse for them.

That sounds like Jesus there Ferd. LOL

No seriously. I agree that we have to respond to threats with extreme prejudice. What I'm saying is that we can frag, nuke, blast, kill, and destroy a million of them today...and tomorrow there will be 2 million lining up to fight us. They aren't going to surrender. They are not out to expand boarders and gain resources. This is about ideology. As long as there is Islam, there will be these terrorist groups. We can wear ourselves out invading nation after nation, toppling governments, throwing bombs and money at the problem and it will not go away. We have to be willing to conduct extremely deadly surgical strikes against confirmed threats, build strong alliances with our allies, and protect ourselves domestically. Again, it's like fighting a swarm of killer bees. You can blast the nest...but next summer they'll be back. You can't assume that because you knocked out a nest in Iraq that they will not hit us again. You can't run around the neighborhood hitting every nest you see for a week and then call it quits and declare yourself the winner when you don't see any more. Next summer the battle will continue.

The only answer will be to eliminate Islam, but that's not going to happen. Therefore strong diplomacy, strong surgical strikes and against confirmed threats, and strong national security are essential from here on out. This calls for eternal vigilance. The longer we wage this war like it's a conventional war with a conventional "nation state" the more resources and soldiers we waste.

[COOPER]

Japan was a bear. Terrorism is a massive swarm of killer bees bro.

Maybe I can explain it better...the Japanese were loyal to their imperial government. Topple the government and they surrender. Terrorists are loyal to ideology. Each cell has it's own ideology and therefore you can kill every man in Iraq...those with the ideology will continue on...they lost nothing by loosing Iraq. The Japanese wanted to rule territory and own resources. When faced with defeat that wanted to at least walk away with their lives and their families. Islamic terrorists believe that death is their highest honor. Surrender is a fate worse than death to them. This is not about territory or boarders, or resources...it's about ideology...thoughts, namely the Islamic Fundamentalist ideology. The only way to destroy all Islamic terrorists would be to eliminate all Muslims...which isn't a possibility. Therefore we have to take a defensive posture that has STRONG international alliances, allows for surgical strikes against confirmed threats, and insulates us through domestic security by preventing them from getting in. And we have to accept this isn't a war one can "win" and file for the history books. This is a war we will have to be vigilant in fighting from now until Jesus returns.

I think you're not catching on because in all of America's previous wars we've fought "nations"...we've never really had to face an ideology like this. This is a war without end bro.

America needs to conquer the whole region and take over the oil or destroy all of that regions resources to sustain life.

[scotty]

America needs to conquer the whole region and take over the oil or destroy all of that regions resources to sustain life.


Whooaaa!!!!!!!!!!!......(looking at swapping sides)

Hey .... ah .... coop my man......give me the grenade.......


Seriously I was with you till right here, unless your joking.

[Walkbyfaith7]

America needs to conquer the whole region and take over the oil or destroy all of that regions resources to sustain life.


Well they say history repeats itself. This land was taken from the Indians and raped for natural resources so it wouldn't be the first time!

Little Indian children and woman were raped and murdered. By hey all those explorers and settlers would good, honest Christians!

[COOPER]

Well they say history repeats itself. This land was taken from the Indians and raped for natural resources so it wouldn't be the first time!

Little Indian children and woman were raped and murdered. By hey all those explorers and settlers would good, honest Christians!
"America" as we know it did not take the land from an already established Indian Nation.

This country evolved from a series of events and became the USA.

The extremist Terrorist are on a mission kill USA in the Name of Allah.

It's kill or be killed. This is not Cowboys and Indians.

These are Jihadist on a mission to kill and rape America.

[COOPER]

Whooaaa!!!!!!!!!!!......(looking at swapping sides)

Hey .... ah .... coop my man......give me the grenade.......


Seriously I was with you till right here, unless your joking.

Of course it's a joke.

But terrorist need to be starved of resources.

[Ferd]

That sounds like Jesus there Ferd. LOL

No seriously. I agree that we have to respond to threats with extreme prejudice. What I'm saying is that we can frag, nuke, blast, kill, and destroy a million of them today...and tomorrow there will be 2 million lining up to fight us. They aren't going to surrender. They are not out to expand boarders and gain resources. This is about ideology. As long as there is Islam, there will be these terrorist groups. We can wear ourselves out invading nation after nation, toppling governments, throwing bombs and money at the problem and it will not go away. We have to be willing to conduct extremely deadly surgical strikes against confirmed threats, build strong alliances with our allies, and protect ourselves domestically. Again, it's like fighting a swarm of killer bees. You can blast the nest...but next summer they'll be back. You can't assume that because you knocked out a nest in Iraq that they will not hit us again. You can't run around the neighborhood hitting every nest you see for a week and then call it quits and declare yourself the winner when you don't see any more. Next summer the battle will continue.

The only answer will be to eliminate Islam, but that's not going to happen. Therefore strong diplomacy, strong surgical strikes and against confirmed threats, and strong national security are essential from here on out. This calls for eternal vigilance. The longer we wage this war like it's a conventional war with a conventional "nation state" the more resources and soldiers we waste.

Chris, those who are involved in the leadership of the terrorists want to expand the "caliphate".

one of the things we can do is reach out to moderate muslims, and help establish viable democracies like we are doing in Iraq.

yea, I know a lot of people hate that idea and Ron Paul says it is unconstitutional, but i think that is the best way for us to help reign in terror.

[Walkbyfaith7]

"America" as we know it did not take the land from an already established Indian Nation.

This country evolved from a series of events and became the USA.

The extremist Terrorist are on a mission kill USA in the Name of Allah.

It's kill or be killed. This is not Cowboys and Indians.

These are Jihadist on a mission to kill and rape America.

This land that you live on was taken my the government of what became the USA.

The Indians were murdered, forced to speak english, relocated and all land was taken away/rights. The buffalo were virtually exterminated by hunters who only raped the land.

I think you need a history lesson. But you know what? They don't really teach this at school because they want to hide the fact that they killed, stole and continue to cheat/steal land, resources and culture from the REAL Natives of this land.

[Ferd]

I guess we are the bad guys in this. us bad Americans were so mean.

you want the actual history? the soux were forced north by the Cheyenne and the Utes who were force north by the Apache

the Iraqous (sp) were at war with other tribes when we got here.

every Indian tribe was fighting someone, pushing them off their lands.

when the Soux got the horse, they pushed the Creeks, Cherokee, and a half dozen other tribes clean out of the Dakotas.

How about the Brittish Isles? the Picts got pushed out by the Celts, the Celts got pushed by the Angles, The Angles got run over by the Saxons who got subjugated by the Normans.

You want to tell the Queen of England she needs to find some Woade Warrior to take her thrown? LOL!

Get real.

[COOPER]

This land that you live on was taken my the government of what became the USA.

The Indians were murdered, forced to speak English, relocated and all land was taken away/rights. The buffalo were virtually exterminated by hunters who only raped the land.

I think you need a history lesson. But you know what? They don't really teach this at school because they want to hide the fact that they killed, stole and continue to cheat/steal land, resources and culture from the REAL Natives of this land.

I am Cherokee and Irish. My wife and kids are registered Choctaw.
I know the Indian history and the trail of tears. But I am not Anti-America because of it either.


Those were terrible times for everyone. Our bloodiest war was on our own soil with brothers killing brothers in the Civil war.

Human rights have alway been fought for in America and we fight still today to make things right for all races. America has it short comings and we study her history in shame. But at the same time we study her history with pride

It's not time to lick old racial scars when the enemy want to kill us all.

Every Red Blooded American needs to defend himself no matter what history he has, good or bad.

[Walkbyfaith7]

I guess we are the bad guys in this. us bad Americans were so mean.

you want the actual history? the soux were forced north by the Cheyenne and the Utes who were force north by the Apache

the Iraqous (sp) were at war with other tribes when we got here.

every Indian tribe was fighting someone, pushing them off their lands.

when the Soux got the horse, they pushed the Creeks, Cherokee, and a half dozen other tribes clean out of the Dakotas.

How about the Brittish Isles? the Picts got pushed out by the Celts, the Celts got pushed by the Angles, The Angles got run over by the Saxons who got subjugated by the Normans.

You want to tell the Queen of England she needs to find some Woade Warrior to take her thrown? LOL!

Get real.


Yes, SOME Indians did fight among eachother but nothing like the government of the USA. Indians are are stuped enough to rape the land of all the buffalo like the governement and settlers did.

The government said peace but then broke treaties with all the Oregon Tribes here and I work for them here and have seen the damage done so don't tell me to 'get real'. You don't have a clue when it comes to the destruction of Indian people where millions and millions were killed for land, $$$ and trees and power and did I say money?

Only recently some of the Oregon Tribes were re-instated and recognized as soverign nations. Some have land, some don't. But don't worry- some of the land they stole and raped was gratefully named in honor of the tribes! Do you see how insulting that is?

[COOPER]

I guess we are the bad guys in this. us bad Americans were so mean.

you want the actual history? the soux were forced north by the Cheyenne and the Utes who were force north by the Apache

the Iraqous (sp) were at war with other tribes when we got here.

every Indian tribe was fighting someone, pushing them off their lands.

when the Soux got the horse, they pushed the Creeks, Cherokee, and a half dozen other tribes clean out of the Dakotas.

How about the Brittish Isles? the Picts got pushed out by the Celts, the Celts got pushed by the Angles, The Angles got run over by the Saxons who got subjugated by the Normans.

You want to tell the Queen of England she needs to find some Woade Warrior to take her thrown? LOL!

Get real.
:shhhI guess America has a bad history so we need to just let her die.*sigh*

[Walkbyfaith7]

:shhhI guess America has a bad history so we need to just let her die.*sigh*

And American is still corrupt! I know people in special forces and in elite military ranks who do things for this country that you would be ashamed to even hear spoken!

But, hey....GOD BLESS AMERICA.

[COOPER]

Yes, SOME Indians did fight among eachother but nothing like the government of the USA. Indians are are stuped enough to rape the land of all the buffalo like the governement and settlers did.

The government said peace but then broke treaties with all the Oregon Tribes here and I work for them here and have seen the damage done so don't tell me to 'get real'. You don't have a clue when it comes to the destruction of Indian people where millions and millions were killed for land, $$$ and trees and power and did I say money?

Only recently some of the Oregon Tribes were re-instated and recognized as soverign nations. Some have land, some don't. But don't worry- some of the land they stole and raped was gratefully named in honor of the tribes! Do you see how insulting that is?

Does America need to killed by Terrorist because of this?

Will this make you happy?

[COOPER]

And American is still corrupt! I know people in special forces and in elite military ranks who do things for this country that you would be ashamed to even hear spoken!

But, hey....GOD BLESS AMERICA.

Then do something. Hmm,,,, Mabey move out of the USA?

[Walkbyfaith7]

Does America need to killed by Terrorist because of this?

Will this make you happy?

I hate terrorism. What needs to happen is the people of the USA need to WAKE UP and start trying to follow the constitution again.

[COOPER]

America is not perfect, but she is a lot better than the Arab lands.

Go complain about American history and corruption over their.

They will even fit you with a bomb laden vest to make it all better.

[Walkbyfaith7]

Then do something. Hmm,,,, Mabey move out of the USA?

Why? This country needs people who know enough to help change it.

[COOPER]

Why? This country needs people who know enough to help change it.

Then do something man. Get into some kind of office, run for mayor.

But complaining about history is not going to make history.

[Walkbyfaith7]

America is not perfect, but she is a lot better than the Arab lands.

Go complain about American history and corruption over their.

They will even fit you with a bomb laden vest to make it all better.


I have never lived among Arab people but I will say I guarantee you and I would both learn something and be better because of it.

The real point though is that we don't own our country like the arabs don't own theirs either. It's only a few powerful people that decide what to do.

I'm sure there are many good arab people...good families and children. But then you have their governements corruption and the extremists too. They ruin it all by CONTROLLING everyone else.

Kings and Queens, rulers and presidents. The more and more I think about it we shouldn't have just one person with so much power.

[Walkbyfaith7]

Then do something man. Get into some kind of office, run for mayor.

But complaining about history is not going to make history.

Maybe you are right Cooper. Sorry for the venting bro. Maybe you should be a counselor, lol. Maybe I should run for office, haha. I would go for the conservative vote and talk about being a good Christian.

I feel hurt because the goverment covers up everything like what they did to the Indians. Then they preach evolution like it's the truth. It is all about what they want us to learn and I don't like it brother.

[COOPER]

Maybe you are right Cooper. Sorry for the venting bro. Maybe you should be a counselor, lol. Maybe I should run for office, haha. I would go for the conservative vote and talk about being a good Christian.

I feel hurt because the goverment covers up everything like what they did to the Indians. Then they preach evolution like it's the truth. It is all about what they want us to learn and I don't like it brother.

I am hearing you.

[Ferd]

And American is still corrupt! I know people in special forces and in elite military ranks who do things for this country that you would be ashamed to even hear spoken!

But, hey....GOD BLESS AMERICA.

somehow I get a odd feeling about this comment.


you know these people, and these people they talk to you and tell you these things?


my friend, in general these people are the most tight lipped people in the country... yet they are telling you these stories?

interesting.

[DividedThigh]

somehow I get a odd feeling about this comment.


you know these people, and these people they talk to you and tell you these things?


my friend, in general these people are the most tight lipped people in the country... yet they are telling you these stories?

interesting.

very true ferd, i actually do know several of these guys and they dont and wont talk about it, dt:drama

[Walkbyfaith7]

somehow I get a odd feeling about this comment.


you know these people, and these people they talk to you and tell you these things?


my friend, in general these people are the most tight lipped people in the country... yet they are telling you these stories?

interesting.

Well one of them was in South America/Central America dealing drugs with the bad guys down there and yes, this was approved by higher ups and yes they took the profits and killed those who wouldn't comply. He was afraid for his life because of some of the things he did- and eventually left and lived to tell the story. Many of the people he worked with died in the name of drugs and money.

The CIA. Do you know anything about what they do? Of course not.
You are just a pawn in their world really and so I am. You think you can talk on your cell phone and not be heard by the CIA, lol. Of course they would only monitor you if they had reason to- they don't like to waist their time. They have cameras that can see a dime on the floor anywhere on the earth. My friend in the military was in intelligence and he monitored foreign targets including people by satelitte.

I know a former U-2 plane pilot. Have you ever met one? Only a few in the world. I can't tell you his name of course but he is all over history books and a lot of the stuff that happened of course never gets to be public knowledge.

Why do you think they are so secretive? Do you think it's because they are doing things that are moral and right?

Basically this is the moral code: Do whatever it takes to win and that includes the USA.

[ChristopherHall]

Chris, those who are involved in the leadership of the terrorists want to expand the "caliphate".

Ah...you're right...but they don't even agree among themselves as to the political nature of said Caliphate. They are a fractured front. If they did all gain power in various nations there would be so much sectarian infighting it'd be worse than Iraq. C'mon man, you should know more about this region dude.

one of the things we can do is reach out to moderate muslims, and help establish viable democracies like we are doing in Iraq.

I agree, well, with my own slant to it. lol I agree that you're right, we need to reach out to moderate Muslims. But, as long as there are Moderate Muslims there will be the Koran and as long as there is a Koran there will be Fundamentalists. In a very real way "moderate Muslims" are like little time bombs or seeds, all it will take is a couple experiences and fundamentalism will bloom. Jihad is endemic to their faith, the moderates reign it in...but the beast will always break free.

As for establishing "democracies", I don't agree. There are several reasons why I disagree. First the culture doesn't hold democracy in high regard. In all honesty they need a strong dictatorial regime (preferably a dictator of our choosing), a royal family, a religious federation, or an Islamic theocracy (highly undesired). The region is very volatile. Let's say we establish a democracy. Well, in a democracy there will always be a minority party, an opposition party so to speak. These will be the Islamic hardliners. They will always have die hard support from the right-wing Islamists in their society. Let's say Israel "accidentally" bombs something or attacks a perceived threat. Guess what, the region goes up in protest and social unrest. The opposition party blames the "Americanized democracy" for not having the will to respond to the "Zionist Satan". A few political gaffs take place in which the moderate democracy advocates civility and it's perceived as being Pro-American or Pro-Israel. Then there will be backlash in the Mosques. Imams will preach against the moderate democracy we established. Within a very short period of time a social shift takes place and the angered or confused population begins calling for elections, they want to elect the hard liners who will "do something" about "Western aggression." Soon elections take place and hardliners sweep the government. Moderate democrats are sidelined or worse...assassinated. Then we have an Anti-American fundamentalist Islamic regime in power that we didn't hand pick. "Democracy" is a bad idea with this people. It would be unstable and short lived resulting in the very thing we're trying to prevent.

We'd do much better to support or secretly support a strong centralized dictator that will be determined to maintain his own power for at least a generation. The man has to be ruthless enough to put down any opposition to his party's authority, especially any hard line religious fundamentalists. Sadly, he'll have to be a tyrant...but he'll be "our tyrant". Only danger here is that he might turn on us like our last bad guy. That's why we leave enough carrot to keep him on our payroll...or we assassinate him and use some greedy little man who was appointed in his shadow to take over if he gets too big for his britches.

If possible a political federation of religious authorities might work out...but the sectarian differences make this near impossible. Also, if we unite them for peace...they are united...all it would take is something to get them upset with us and viola...a united Anti-American coalition. Bad idear really.

Allowing an Islamic theocracy is absolutely out of the question. That would be like helping them accomplish their overall goal.

I vote...appointed (or rather permitted) dictatorship. That will mean we have a man in power that we've allowed to reign, the man has incentive to resist fundamentalist opposition (for his own survival) and we keep them divided among themselves. Yes...he'd be a little dictator but again...he'd be our dictator. If you're going to invade a nation that has little reverence for democracy you have to have the guts to do what it will take to keep the unruly in check after you leave.

If you look, most poorer, socio-economically unstable nations slip right back into tyranny after being liberated. Don't waste the lives and the money...give them a tyrant we can deal with who will kill all comers (namely the Jihadists) to maintain his power. That will at least keep them fighting themselves for at least a generation. After seeing what happened in Lebanon I don't trust democracy in the region at all. It would be really ironic and all to plausible...we invade Iraq as part of the War on Terror and install democracy. Shortly after we leave some unrest breaks out and a Pro-Taliban party gets legally voted into the power. Not good bro...not good. Democracy works with Westerners, you know, us Christians. I firmly don't see it working over there. Of course an "Iraqi democracy" is Bush's goal...this is one point where I think President Bush, bless his heart, is on crack.

yea, I know a lot of people hate that idea and Ron Paul says it is unconstitutional, but i think that is the best way for us to help reign in terror.

Democracy? In my opinion you're not really grasping what you're doing with democracy. Do you want "democracy" in the hands of an Islamic people who can be swayed by Islamic fundamentalist religious leaders? Ummmm....hello?

[John Atkinson]

Ever, "frag", a man John? This isn't Hollywood.

You ever been at 700 feet with a Soviet alpha class attack boat pinging active sonar on you as a way of letting you know he could ram a torpedo up your tail and there is nothing you can do about it? I have.

Bad guy active sonar has a very distinct sound. They call it "Blocks of wood" Shring Tok. Shring tok. Shring tok. And you can hear it through the pressure hull. Loud. and. clear.

I rode around on a nuclear submarine during the cold war. I trained to frag entire cities "Bro". I also trained to go up against the IRA flavor terrorist as we refitted aweful close to ireland and a boatload of nukes made for a tempting target.

And this isn't France either, no matter how much you want it to be. Sorry Bro, I hate your politics on every level, from your police state desire to your entitlement mentality and I wish you and everyone like you would just move to europe where you can be happy and leave us Americans alone.

I swore oath to defend this nation against all enemies, foriegn and domestic. Domestic includes the purveyors of communism. That would be you.

There just never is a Senator McCarthy around when you need one.


AFF Admin, you ban me for this I am fine, no harm, no foul.

[ChristopherHall]

somehow I get a odd feeling about this comment.


you know these people, and these people they talk to you and tell you these things?


my friend, in general these people are the most tight lipped people in the country... yet they are telling you these stories?

interesting.

After all the history about "black ops", illegal operations, and torture...you're going to challenge this? Bro. Just admit it...sometimes we break eggs if we feel the cake absolutely has to be baked our way. That's just the nature of worldly government. That's why I want to puke when people's eyes get glazed over and they start talking about a righteous and godly nation. Give me a break man. Let's be honest Christians here, Christians are allowed to be honest right? Our government has done, is doing, and will do some very terrible things to protect it's interests. And anyone who denies that has lost all touch with reality.

[ChristopherHall]

I rode around on a nuclear submarine during the cold war. I trained to frag entire cities "Bro".

Did I accidently say I was from Dayton Ohio? Ummm...ehhh...I meant Daytona...yeah...Daytona. :)

I also trained to go up against the IRA flavor teerorist as we refitted awful close to ireland and a boatload of nukes made for a tempting target.

Again, the IRA was a nationalist terrorist organization. Very different from Islamic fundamentalism.

And this isn't France either, no matter how much you want it to be. Sorry Bro, I hate your politics and wish you and everyone like you would just move to europe and leave us Americans alone.

Bro...you can hate whatever you like all you like. But it doesn't change reality. But while you're hating my politics and wishin' I would move and all that...let me say that I like you. You're a neat guy. On top of that while I don't agree with all of your political views, I agree with many of them. I'm not a such a mental midget that I would dislike you over your politics. And in all honesty, I don't think you should move just because of your politics, you're my brother. I'm of the opinion that people like you and me balance this country out and it needs us both. The last thing I think America needs is all the conservatives to move to some absolutely free market, anarcho-capitalist bana republic, because then America would lean to the extreme left. The moderates like me try to keep the ultra- right wing-nuts and ultra-left wing-nuts in the center and thinking. Because in politics people get "religious". People start to think that "everything" that is "conservative" is right and "everything" that is "liberal" is wrong.... or that "everything" that is "liberal" is right and "everything" that is "conservative" is wrong. Each side begins to think that their political agenda is "inspired by God" and infallible. There was a news story a while back about a pastor who actually cast Democratic voters out of his church. Hey, I'll be the first to tell you that many liberal ideas are wacko. But I'm also gonna tell you that many conservative ideas are wacko. I'm a free thinker and arrive at my own opinions. Some just choose to agree with the entire conservative or liberal slate. I don't know why, I suspect that it's because they really haven't considered coming to their own conclusions. On some things I agree with the libs...on others I agree with the cons. The Conservatives tell me things like,

Sorry Bro, I hate your politics and wish you and everyone like you would just move

...and the liberals typically say worse things about me. LOL Oh well...that's cool. I see it as the high cost of honesty. Both sides will hate your guts when you crush their sacred cows and get real with them. But you know what...that's what Jesus did too. You had the Liberal Sadducees and the conservative Pharisees in a power struggle over ancient Judea. Jesus wouldn't take sides but rebuked them both rather strongly. You'll notice that the Sadducees and the Pharisees had a very divisive history...but one thing united them...the desire to silence this truth telling man named Jesus. I'm no Jesus but I wanna be like him. I want to be honest. If a conservative is being goofy about a subject...I'm gonna speak up. If a liberal is being goofy about a subject...I'm gonna speak up. If I agree with them...I'll agree or just listen.

Oh well. With all that said I regret to inform you that me and my family have no desire to move at this present time.

Love ya bro. Your's truly, Bro. Chris.

[Ferd]

After all the history about "black ops", illegal operations, and torture...you're going to challenge this? Bro. Just admit it...sometimes we break eggs if we feel the cake absolutely has to be baked our way. That's just the nature of worldly government. That's why I want to puke when people's eyes get glazed over and they start talking about a righteous and godly nation. Give me a break man. Let's be honest Christians here, Christians are allowed to be honest right? Our government has done, is doing, and will do some very terrible things to protect it's interests. And anyone who denies that has lost all touch with reality.

I didnt challenge the concept Chris. Knowing a few things about the military...having served... I know what the standard line is.

guys involved in black ops, dont talk. that was all I said.

if you can type Mena Arkansas in a brouser or have any recolection of Iran Contra, you can come up with all kinds of stories about what the CIA may or may not have done.

This I know for sure, what I know about that kind of thing, would never be admitted to...especially on an internet site.

[John Atkinson]

I never did say I disliked you. I said I hate your politics, you are quite simply, a communist. I like you yourself just fine. You are my brother in the Lord and were we to meet I would laugh and joke and buy your food.

But after all that you would still be a commie and I would not be.

Politics should never interfere with love among Christians.

[ChristopherHall]

I never did say I disliked you. I said I hate your politics, you are quite simply, a communist. I like you yourself just fine. You are my brother in the Lord and were we to meet I would laugh and joke and buy your food.

But after all that you would still be a commie and I would not be.

Politics should never interfere with love among Christians.

Aw, I love ya too Bro. John.

I'm hardly a Communist. You wouldn't know a Communist if it bit ya my propaganda believing friend. LOL

Would you call our Apostolic, Bible believing brethren from Canada who happened to disagree with you "Communists" or is that my distinct honor?

Here's an interesting article:

September 28, 2007
Editorial Observer
The Socialists Are Coming! The Socialists Are Coming!
By Philip M. Boffey
The New York Times
http://americanhealthcarereform.org/html/socialism.html

The epithet of choice these days for Republicans who oppose any expansion of government's role in health care programs is "socialized" medicine.

Rudy Giuliani has used the "s-word" to denounce legislation that would enlarge a children's health insurance program and to besmirch Hillary Clinton's health plan. Mitt Romney has added a xenophobic twist, calling the Clinton plan "European-style socialized medicine," while ignoring its similarities to a much-touted health care reform he championed as governor of Massachusetts. Other conservative critics have wielded the "s-word" to deplore efforts to expand government health care programs or regulation over the private health care markets.

Our political discourse is so debased that the term is typically applied where it is least appropriate and never applied where it most fits the case.

No one has the nerve to brand this country's purest systems of "socialized medicine" — the military and veterans hospitals — for what they are. In both systems, care is not only paid for by the government but delivered in government facilities by doctors who are government employees. Even so, a parade of Washington's political dignitaries, including President Bush, has turned to the National Naval Medical Center in Bethesda, Md., for checkups and treatment, without ideological complaint. Politicians who deplore government-run health care for average Americans are only too happy to use it themselves.

Nor are they eager to tar the vast array of government hospitals and clinics that serve our nation's veterans. For one thing, the veterans' hospitals, once considered a second-rate backwater, now lead their private sector competitors in adopting electronic medical records and score well for delivering high quality care at relatively low cost. Even when the veterans' hospitals were rightly criticized this year for their part in the disgraceful failure to care adequately for soldiers injured in Iraq and Afghanistan, there was no clamor to junk or privatize the system, only demands to make it better.

Mayor Michael Bloomberg startled most New Yorkers two years ago when he asserted that the city's public hospitals are "better than the great teaching hospitals" all around them. Although some deemed his praise hyperbolic, the city's billionaire, entrepreneurial, free-market-enriched mayor thought he knew quality when he saw it, even if it was socialist at its core.

The country's vast Medicare program is one step less socialized — a "single-payer" program in which the government pays for the care and sets reimbursement rates, but the actual care is delivered by private doctors and hospitals. When Medicare was launched in 1965 it was routinely denounced as socialized medicine, but it has become so popular that politicians deem it the third rail of American politics, sure to electrocute anyone who tries to cut it or privatize it. No politician is eager to brand 43 million beneficiaries as socialists at heart.

Meanwhile, the two current butts of the "s-word" are such hybrids of public and private elements that it is hard to know how to characterize them. The State Children's Health Insurance Program, or S-chip, was denigrated by one Republican congressman this week as "a government-run socialized wolf masquerading in the sheep skin of children's health." It might better be thought of as a "double-payer system" in which the states and the federal government put up the money, the states take the lead in defining the program and the actual care is typically delivered through private health plans by private doctors and hospitals.

The "s-word" seems even less appropriate for Senator Clinton's proposed universal health care plan, which seeks to bolster employer-provided health benefits and create new purchasing pools to help individuals buy private policies at low group rates.

True, her plan would expand government regulation, and she wants to make a Medicare-like option available to compete with private policies. But that would only lead to a socialized, single-payer system if everybody were to choose the Medicare-like option.

There is no special magic in government-run or government-financed health care. Medicare has serious cost-control and financing problems, and the veterans' hospitals could take a turn for the worse, as they have in the past, should federal funding shrivel. Private health care systems have strengths of their own, are favored by many patients and often provide care as good as any.

The take-home message for voters is this: Look behind the labels to judge health care proposals on their merits. Whenever you hear a candidate denounce something as a step toward socialized medicine, it probably isn't. More likely the politician is demagoguing the issue or is abysmally ignorant of the inner workings — and real, not ideological, failings — of the country's multifaceted health care system.

[ChristopherHall]

Wouldn't you say that when labels are abused over and over and over they do violence to the seriousness of actual Communism or Socialism?

[John Atkinson]

Hh heh, I do know what is and isn't communist. And you are one. You want big government with it's hands in everything.

And that philosophy offends me to the core of my being. And it is an old issue, in the war of northern agression my ancestors wore gray, not blue.

But I'll share a story,

a few years ago, when the russian submarine Kursk went down I took out my dolphins, the US Navy submarine insignia, wrapped black tape around it as police officers do their badges when one of their own is killed. And wore it. In honor to my brothers on eternal patrol on the Kursk. Because any man who serves his country beneath the waves is my brother.

Chris I seriousley hate your politics, and I do see you as an enemy, politically, but you are yet my brother and I love ya commie.

[Hoovie]

Funny discussion. I too would favor buying a communist brother a meal. What better way than to lace his mashed potatoes?

[ChristopherHall]

Hh heh, I do know what is and isn't communist. And you are one. You want big government with it's hands in everything.

Everything? Hardly. Do you support "communist" hospitals for our veterans?

And that philosophy offends me to the core of my being. And it is an old issue, in the war of northern agression my ancestors wore gray, not blue.

That would offend me too bro. I don't want government involvement in everything. Just a few things where the system is riddled with abuse and manipulation. Sometimes a regulation is needed. I am an account reconciler for the local government. I work with paying private contractors who lie about services rendered every day. I work closely with Industrial Pretreatment agents with the water department and I've seen the private industries doctor paperwork and even commit perjury more times than you'd ever imagine. If you knew how these guys fleece you, the tax payer, you'd want a few more regulations too.

But I'll share a story,

a few years ago, when the russian submarine Kursk went down I took out my dolphins, the US Navy submarine insignia, wrapped black tape around it as police officers do their badges when one of their own is killed. And wore it. In honor to my brothers on eternal patrol on the Kursk. Because any man who serves his country beneath the waves is my brother.

Chris I seriousley hate your politics, and I do see you as an enemy, politically, but you are yet my brother and I love ya.

Bro. I don't count you as an enemy at all. I disagree with you. You know...it amazes me how we Christians have evolved into this vitriolic creatures who declare anyone who doesn't agree with us completely an "enemy." I don't think it glorifies Christ.

[ChristopherHall]

Funny discussion. I too would favor buying a communist brother a meal. What better way than to lace his mashed potatoes?

LOL

According to John, I'm a "Communist." Don't let him make me any mashed potatoes. LOL

[ChristopherHall]

John, was Abraham Lincoln a "Communist"?

"I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. . . . corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed."
-- U.S. President Abraham Lincoln, Nov. 21, 1864
(letter to Col. William F. Elkins)
Ref: The Lincoln Encyclopedia, Archer H. Shaw (Macmillan, 1950, NY)

Those days are upon us...and bro...you're siding with the Empire.

http://kurtnimmo.com/images/cheney-darth.jpg

Don't go to the Dark Side bro. LOL

[John Atkinson]

Chris, your philosophies are red to the core, may as well change your avatar to the hammer and sickle

[ChristopherHall]

Hey, but for real, the Democrats aren't much better. You have the Borg on the far left:

http://static.flickr.com/32/44913231_06be2b84af.jpg
"Resistance is futile."

She gives me the creeps dude.

[ChristopherHall]

Chris, your philosophies are red to the core, may as well change your avatar to the hammer and sickle

Do you believe that political conservatives are right about everything and liberals are wrong about everything?

I'm just trying to get a feel for our realistic you are in your politics.

[ChristopherHall]

Chris, your philosophies are red to the core, may as well change your avatar to the hammer and sickle

Hey, you didn't answer my question about Abraham Lincoln.

Would you say that the following laws are "Communist" in nature?

* Corporate charters (licenses to exist) granted for a limited time and revoked promptly for violating laws.

* Corporations only involved in activities necessary to fulfill their chartered purpose.

* Corporations cannot own stock in other corporations nor own any property that is not essential to fulfilling their chartered purpose.

* Corporations to be terminated if they exceeded their authority or caused public harm.

* Owners and managers responsible for criminal acts committed on the job.

* Corporations not able make any political or charitable contributions nor spend money to influence law-making.

[John Atkinson]

Hey Chris, here are the lyrics to tje Soviet National Anthem, in case you forgot commie.
Unbreakable union of free republics, Great Russia has joined forever! Long live the created by the will of peoples United and mighty Soviet Union CHORUS: To Glory, our free Fatherland The stronghold of the friendship of peoples Party of Lenin is the power of the people It leads us to the triumph of Communism 2.
Through storms the sun of freedom shone to us And the great Lenin lighted us the way He raised peoples to the right cause He inspired us for labour and for acts of heroism CHORUS 3.
In the victory of the immortal ideas of Communism We see the future of our country, And to the Red banner of our glorious Fatherland We shall always be selflessly loyal CHORUS Unbreakable union of free republics, Great Russia has joined forever! Long live the created by the will of peoples United and mighty Soviet Union CHORUS: To Glory, our free Fatherland The stronghold of the friendship of peoples Party of Lenin is the power of the people It leads us to the triumph of Communism 2.
Through storms the sun of freedom shone to us And the great Lenin lighted us the way He raised peoples to the right cause He inspired us for labour and for acts of heroism CHORUS 3.
In the victory of the immortal ideas of Communism We see the future of our country, And to the Red banner of our glorious Fatherland We shall always be selflessly loyal CHORUS

[StMark]

~~~~~ TO GOD BE THE GLORY ~~~~~~


Hillary Won Tonight!!!!!!!!!!!!!! woooo hooooo !!!


any thoughts on that ????

[ChristopherHall]

Hey, I'm asking honest questions based on historical facts. You're coming at me with accusations. What's that tell ya?

You can call me a Commie if you like, but how would you feel if someone called you a militant Fascist? Honestly John, you don't even know me. You've only heard me talk about two maybe three issues.

We shouldn't call each other names bro.

[ChristopherHall]

~~~~~ TO GOD BE THE GLORY ~~~~~~


Hillary Won Tonight!!!!!!!!!!!!!! woooo hooooo !!!


any thoughts on that ????

I'm sure she's a neat person and all...but really she doesn't have all that much experience. She was a President's wife. That's about it. I think the Democrats will be making a big political mistake if they nominate her.

[John Atkinson]

Do you believe that political conservatives are right about everything and liberals are wrong about everything?

I'm just trying to get a feel for our realistic you are in your politics.
We all already know I am a constitutionalist and you are a communist. Did you know Mao Zedong was a child molester?

[StMark]

:happydanceI'm sure she's a neat person and all...but really she doesn't have all that much experience. She was a President's wife. That's about it. I think the Democrats will be making a big political mistake if they nominate her.


Well aDkinson is backing her - I have the PM to prove it :happydance:happydance

[ChristopherHall]

We all already know I am a constitutionalist and you are a communist. Did you know Mao Zedong was a child molester?

John, I'm going to ask that you stop harassing me simply because I disagree with you politically. I served in the U.S. military (Army) just like you did. I would have given my life for this country, my dad served one tour in Vietnam and my uncle Sandy served three... and now you've really upset me. If you call me a communist one more time, I'm going to formally report you to the moderator. I've tried to be civil bro. I don't want to do it and I only feel I have to if you continue. I counted you as a friend dude. Why you doing this man? You start repeatedly calling me a "Communist" and then equate me with a child molester, simply because I disagree with you politically on two maybe three issues? Man, that's going WAAAAYYY too far dude. More importantly, don't loose your Christianity over it. Jesus ain't cool with that.

Bro...take a deep breath and relax. Say the Serenity Prayer or something. Jeesh man. I know you're above this. Somethin' else on your mind tonight bro? PM me if you need to talk about something, anything. I'm here man.

[ChristopherHall]

:happydance


Well aDkinson is backing her - I have the PM to prove it :happydance:happydance

No way! Let me see it. I don't believe you. LOL

[John Atkinson]

Hey, I'm asking honest questions based on historical facts. You're coming at me with accusations. What's that tell ya?

You can call me a Commie if you like, but how would you feel if someone called you a militant Fascist? Honestly John, you don't even know me. You've only heard me talk about two maybe three issues.

We shouldn't call each other names bro.
You Want;
An American Gestapo: to secure our borders and make sure we are all safe
Government free ride; Make sure everyone gets fed and is health cared.r

what do you want me to call you?

[ChristopherHall]

You Want;
An American Gestapo: to secure our borders and make sure we are all safe
Government free ride; Make sure everyone gets fed and is health cared.r

what do you want me to call you?

A person that wants the boarders secure and people fed and healthy. That would be a good start. This stuff isn't cool John and you know it bro. Technically a Communist wouldn't want a National Health Insurance program paying private doctors and hospitals in a single-payer system. A Communist would outlaw private doctors and hospitals. Bro...you're not cool. If I'm a Communist for supporting national health insurance...I'd hate to see what you think of American soldiers who value our government hospitals. Would you call those fighting in Iraq "Communists"? Many of them enjoy the government hospitals and health care they receive. Many of them even support the notion of a national health insurance program....some might even be...*gasp!*, Democrats.

Bro, it's this kind of hatred (from both sides) that's really hurting this country. It's not cool to be a racist or slander people because of the color of their skin anymore...but it's cool to hate and slander people over their politics. It's the same spirit man. Instead of using the "N" word, they use the "L" word (liberal), or the "C" word (Communist). It's outrageous man. Just because I disagree with two or three issues politically, you'll call me a Communist? It's really conduct unbecoming a man of your caliber. I thought you were a friend bro.

[John Atkinson]

Chris, You want a socialist America, I don't lets leave it at that.

[ChristopherHall]

Chris, You want a socialist America, I don't lets leave it at that.

Not true John. I'm neither for total socialism or capitalism. I believe in a mixed economy.

[Walkbyfaith7]

After all the history about "black ops", illegal operations, and torture...you're going to challenge this? Bro. Just admit it...sometimes we break eggs if we feel the cake absolutely has to be baked our way. That's just the nature of worldly government. That's why I want to puke when people's eyes get glazed over and they start talking about a righteous and godly nation. Give me a break man. Let's be honest Christians here, Christians are allowed to be honest right? Our government has done, is doing, and will do some very terrible things to protect it's interests. And anyone who denies that has lost all touch with reality.

You are speaking some good truth there Brother.

[Walkbyfaith7]

We all already know I am a constitutionalist and you are a communist. Did you know Mao Zedong was a child molester?

Please refrain from labeling Chris as a communist.
Please and thank you.

[John Atkinson]

Not true John. I'm neither for total socialism or capitalism. I believe in a mixed economy.
Just wanted to apologize to you publically, that was out of line, sorry.

We have gone down this trail before and you know I am death on anything resembling socialism. I will just refrain from discussing politics with you eh? So. You like fishing?

Lord Bless and I do apologize to you.

[Aquila]

Each political party is desperately wicked...and each political party has virtuous eliments that contribute to a strong society. We have to guard against the extremes in each. When Christians become the pawns of a single political philosophy we are headed down the road to Rome.

[John Atkinson]

Each political party is desperately wicked...and each political party has virtuous eliments that contribute to a strong society. We have to guard against the extremes in each. When Christians become the pawns of a single political philosophy we are headed down the road to Rome.
You are right Bro. I have been doing pretty good this election season except for this momentary lapse into fascist militant redneckism. :shhh