Tulsa Report Day One

[Steve Epley]

Some of the brethren from CAF are going to be reporting on the meeting I will report about the crowd size and so forth on this thread. Of course I will not post any info that would be considered private as to CAF. But that which I feel will not violate and CAF rules I will be happy to report.

[Consapostolic1]

awesome...thanks Bro. Epley

[AGAPE]

This is the most outstanding thing to happen in the Apostolic Movement since 1945 maybe since Azusa....

(course 1 soul being saved is faaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrr more important!)

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

This is the most outstanding thing to happen in the Apostolic Movement since 1945 maybe since Azusa....

(course 1 soul being saved is faaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrr more important!)

Fantastic that Steve Epley will report?

:huh

[seguidordejesus]

Thanks Bro. Epley.

[AGAPE]

150 + ministers in the lobby of the Radison just moments ago....according to a report

[AGAPE]

Fantastic that Steve Epley will report?

:huh

Tulsa Elder, Tulsa:theyareontome:

[Mr. Steinway]

Tulsa Elder, Tulsa:theyareontome:
You almost sound giddy! :) :stretch:

[AGAPE]

almost...there a bunch of liberals

:>)

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

150 + ministers in the lobby of the Radison just moments ago....according to a report

Why are you not there?

:weightlifter:

[Mrs. LPW]

This is the most outstanding thing to happen in the Apostolic Movement since 1945 maybe since Azusa....

(course 1 soul being saved is faaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrr more important!)

amazing

[Mr. Steinway]

almost...there a bunch of liberals

:>) :lol

[StMark]

amazing


some folks are happy to see the UPC split

They would never admit but they are happy nonetheless

[Pastor G]

Marky, I don't mind admitting it... I think it will be good for both sides if it is to happen...

[Melody]

Why are you not there?

:weightlifter:

That is curious, as everyone is so very interested in what does happen there, why not go and see for yourself? Rather than rely on hearsay

[rgcraig]

That is curious, as everyone is so very interested in what does happen there, why not go and see for yourself? Rather than rely on hearsay

Just because we are curious doesn't mean we could or want to go.

[jrLA]

Just because we are curious doesn't mean we could or want to go.

Agreed...I know I wouldn't want to be within a 100 miles of the place. Further...Our officials asked that we NOT go, even to spectate.

However, I do want to know what is going on!

:theyareontome:

[Barb]

Marky, I don't mind admitting it... I think it will be good for both sides if it is to happen...

I don't...oh well...nothing I can do about it.

[George]

Just because we are curious doesn't mean we could or want to go.

Well said

[Sister Alvear]

It would be better if we all could get along however someone once said:
Too live above with saints we've heard, Oh that will be blest and glory
To live below with saints we know, OH that's a different story...

[StMark]

Marky, I don't mind admitting it... I think it will be good for both sides if it is to happen...


I'm going to call your Dist Supt you keep talkin' like that :walking:

[PastorD]

I'm going to call your Dist Supt you keep talkin' like that :walking:

His DS is probably on the phone trying to straighten out his own stuff. If busy keep dialing.


:karate:

[AGAPE]

Bro Tommy Craft is now preaching...

[Hoovie]

some folks are happy to see the UPC split

They would never admit but they are happy nonetheless

...and others consider it a purging of sorts....

[Hoovie]

I hear the Elder is having health treatment. Who is filling in? How many are there?


Is this event streamed on the internet? (I might even pay the 20 bucks for the upgrade!)

[AGAPE]

approx.....1,500 present

[Pastor G]

Bro Tommy Craft is now preaching...

hmmm and he told us he wasn't going!!! go figure

[AGAPE]

When did he say he wasn't going???

[Mrs. LPW]

It would be better if we all could get along however someone once said:
Too live above with saints we've heard, Oh that will be blest and glory
To live below with saints we know, OH that's a different story...

:toofunny

[stmatthew]

approx.....1,500 present

Didn't you mean to type between 200 and 500??? :jogging:

[Sister Alvear]

however lots just went to see what would happen and look on...In 10 years we will know how it really turned out...

[Pastor G]

When did he say he wasn't going???

right before Christmas

[StMark]

***** NEWS FLASH *****


Did you hear that the UPC Oklahoma Ladies conference is going on at the same time AND AND AND at the same hotel !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





.

[Pastor G]

yes i did quite funny perhaps they can help give an accurate count of how many are there for the other thing

[StMark]

maybe they're going to reopen JCM again via online ????

[Pastor G]

Oh Boy!!!

[CC1]

Bro Tommy Craft is now preaching...


I was a little surprised they chose TLC to kick it off as he can be somewhat of a loose cannon. There is no telling what he might say!

[Sister Alvear]

I just feel sorry for the unsaved friends and kinfolks when they see brothers fighting What about the children that will grow up remembering families turning on each other...

What about the outside world and what will they think?

Yes, I know more than some the cost of of convictions however the cost does not include destroying the innocent.

[AGAPE]

Didn't you mean to type between 200 and 500??? :jogging:

Bro Matt

If my numbers are wrong let me know

[AGAPE]

a friend just said "over 1000 in attendance. 80% preachers"

[StMark]

I just feel sorry for the unsaved friends and kinfolks when they see brothers fighting What about the children that will grow up remembering families turning on each other...

What about the outside world and what will they think?

Yes, I know more than some the cost of of convictions however the cost does not include destroying the innocent.



it's every real sister

[PastorD]

Can we trust preachers to count a crowd?

[StMark]

Can we trust preachers to count a crowd?

Speaking Evangelistically or??? Oh!! i forgot you was also an evangelist OOPPS:stretch:

[KarenJo]

Speaking Evangelistically or??? Oh!! i forgot you was also an evangelist OOPPS:stretch:

Off subject...I thought you were going to Landmark Tonight???

[Pastor G]

Can we trust preachers to count a crowd?


Well a few posts ago it was approx 1500 now it is about 1000 and only 800 preachers...

Pastor D how many did they say were in houston a couple of years ago and how many were actually there?

[StMark]

Off subject...I thought you were going to Landmark Tonight???


You know, I felt a spirit overwhelm me tonight called "laziness" lol

we've had rain storms here for one week straight. the weather has been terrible. of course we need it since we only had like 2-4 in last year and if it doesn't rain everything starts burning down around here(you know)
anyhow, i just didn't feel up to it- I;ll try again tomorrow:walking:

[KarenJo]

You know, I felt a spirit overwhelm me tonight called "laziness" lol

we've had rain storms here for one week straight. the weather has been terrible. of course we need it since we only had like 2-4 in last year and if it doesn't rain everything starts burning down around here(you know)
anyhow, i just didn't feel up to it- I;ll try again tomorrow:walking:


I don't blame you. I heard the weather was bad. We are expecting ICE tonight, it's at the freezing mark so I am in my PJ's nice and warm and watching Sis Monk getting with it...I am just a "Music Deprived Texan".... They are doing, "Take It To God In Prayer" I haven't heard that in a while, sounds good!!!!

[Hoovie]

It's been zero degrees here that last few mornings!

[Steve Epley]

Since I guess there is no accurate count unless it is disclosed later the estimate is between 1000-1500 and 80% are men thus preachers. And several are having problems with rooms and air delays so many will not be in until late tonite or tomorrow. Thus a good showing.

[Felicity]

I'm very curious to know how many UPC pastors are present. :)

[StMark]

Bro Epley!!!

Shame on you you are suppose to be resting! I'm going to call your wife on you!

Did you see the thread with all the people praying for you ??

please go address the members there okay?

[StMark]

I don't blame you. I heard the weather was bad. We are expecting ICE tonight, it's at the freezing mark so I am in my PJ's nice and warm and watching Sis Monk getting with it...I am just a "Music Deprived Texan".... They are doing, "Take It To God In Prayer" I haven't heard that in a while, sounds good!!!!



it's been unusually cold here to but no Ice just a cold rain.

all you folks back east better look because when all these storms head your way you are going to be in for a mess !

[Cindy]

it's been unusually cold here to but no Ice just a cold rain.

all you folks back east better look because when all these storms head your way you are going to be in for a mess !


:lalala

[Hoovie]

OK, back to the topic at hand...


What is on the agenda? Is anyone giving a play by play? To think we live in an age of technology this news is coming out slooooowwwwww.... oh wait, that was the point of the meeting - to slow down the technological encroachment on the church.

Here is how my former (Old Order Mennonite) church handles this. Perhaps this can be adopted.

NO TV, and if it looks talks or sounds like a TV - it's a TV.

Modem on a FAX is OK. A screen is OK. But no device that combines a modem/screen.

[Hoovie]

Since I guess there is no accurate count unless it is disclosed later the estimate is between 1000-1500 and 80% are men thus preachers. And several are having problems with rooms and air delays so many will not be in until late tonite or tomorrow. Thus a good showing.

Brother Devito! I am glad you are feeling better and posting!!

[Felicity]

I just feel sorry for the unsaved friends and kinfolks when they see brothers fighting What about the children that will grow up remembering families turning on each other...

What about the outside world and what will they think?

Yes, I know more than some the cost of of convictions however the cost does not include destroying the innocent.True, but nothing can be done about it I'm afraid. Issues.... there are always issues.

[StMark]

Here is my situation. I lost my cell phone monday and have not been abel to find it. my brother and i tore the living room up today looking for it.
If i don't find it by tomorrow Im buying a new one.

anyhow, I know 2 people who are there who said they'd call me but i don't have my phone! waiting for an email tonight.


I do know that there is one person on this forum whose father is there - why he wont give is any news I can't tell you :weightlifter:

[Cindy]

OK, back to the topic at hand...


What is on the agenda? Is anyone giving a play by play? To think we live in an age of technology this news is coming out slooooowwwwww.... oh wait, that was the point of the meeting - to slow down the technological encroachment on the church.

Here is how my former (Old Order Mennonite) church handles this. Perhaps this can be adopted.

NO TV, and if it looks talks or sounds like a TV - it's a TV.

Modem on a FAX is OK. A screen is OK. But no device that combines a modem/screen.

I thought we had a spy.... er um a reporter there. :D

[Steve Epley]

It is 9:52 there so I guess they are yet in service so info is slow. I don't know how long I will be able to stay up? But I am going to try to wait a little while to give y'all a report. I know several there.

[Hoovie]

It is 9:52 there so I guess they are yet in service so info is slow. I don't know how long I will be able to stay up? But I am going to try to wait a little while to give y'all a report. I know several there.

Thax Rev.

[The Dean]

It is 9:52 there so I guess they are yet in service so info is slow. I don't know how long I will be able to stay up? But I am going to try to wait a little while to give y'all a report. I know several there.

Elder, I'm glad to see that you're alright. Someone had already contacted my Brother in Law and told him to pray for you and that it seemed pretty serious.

Glad you're doing better. I'll continue in prayer on your behalf.

[StMark]

***** NEWS FLASH *****


The REVERAND GARY RECKHART says he is going to have pics on his blog http://apostoliccontender.blogspot.com/





.

[AGAPE]

they are in somewhat of an "answering q's" stage at the moment...
we will see...
so far the following have been spotted in attendance::

Randy Keyes
Jerry Jones
J Mark Jordan
Paul Mooney
Dan Segraves



















































just kidding.....don't know if any of those Elders are there

[ChicagoPastor]

they are in somewhat of an "answering q's" stage at the moment...
we will see...
so far the following have been spotted in attendance::

Randy Keyes
Jerry Jones
J Mark Jordan
Paul Mooney
Dan Segraves



















































just kidding.....don't know if any of those Elders are there

Most of those Elders can be seen RIGHT NOW at Landmark's webcast

[Hoovie]

***** NEWS FLASH *****


The REVERAND GARY RECKHART says he is going to have pics on his blog http://apostoliccontender.blogspot.com/





.

What a wRetched site.

[AGAPE]

What a wRetched site.

Call the law....I agree with Bro Hoover:stretch:

[AGAPE]

will service ever get over???

[ChicagoPastor]

Hopefully someone will pass a resolution at the WPF so AT LEAST they will allow webcasting :)

[Hoovie]

They are in the "excommunicating phase". Shall we bow our heads?

[RevBuddy]

This is waaaaaaaay toooooooooooo slow..........send in the ASF's...











apostolic special forces NOW...

[Melody]

I am deeply saddened by the turn of events since "the vote". Mostly I am saddened by the way that our brethren, those of like precious faith, are acting. It is as though we have forgotten that we are to first of all be Christians! I see very little Christianily being displayed among us, and for that I am sad.

I implore you all, don't speculate or call names of those who you may have heard are leaving. It has always been my policy to be sure before I speak. It seems that there are alot of folks just plain gossiping!



The letter writing and orders to not attend? And yes please don't speculate or call these precious brethren names. Please contact them before you speak and don't gossip.

Is it fair to to give the same consideration to both sides? Just wondering if we are to be Christian to brothers that agree with us, and not to those that actually believed what the manual and fundamental doctrine statement says?

You do know what it says?

[Felicity]

Just need to be "Christian" - period.

[Sister Alvear]

Just need to be "Christian" - period.


so true my friend...guess it is really cold up your way...

[StMark]

**** NEWS FLASH***

I heard one report of 1000 and another of 1,500 and that there is more coming in tomorrow.

ALSO!! have you heard that there are some preachers who are opposed to this who are going to take the mic and give them a piece of their minds tomorrow during the open session???????????????????????????????

there's a pastor's wife whose husband is there and she is going to email shortly

[Felicity]

so true my friend...guess it is really cold up your way...
Very cold - yes. But it's "winter" after all. Got to expect some cold temps - particularly in January.

Wish you could see how beautiful it is though - especially during and right after some of these snowfalls we've had in the past few days. So so beautiful! :)

[AGAPE]

all 7 are to speak tonight....

[Hoovie]

**** NEWS FLASH***

I heard one report of 1000 and another of 1,500 and that there is more coming in tomorrow.

ALSO!! have you heard that there are some preachers who are opposed to this who are going to take the mic and give them a piece of their minds tomorrow during the open session???????????????????????????????

there's a pastor's wife whose husband is there and she is going to email shortly

kewl.

Has anyone considered there may be a few hundred men there who accompanied their wife to the Ladies Meeting? Perhaps they walked over to the other meeting to scope it out. It gets old waiting in the hotel rooms.... not much on TV....

[StMark]

all 7 are to speak tonight....

6 or 7??? I thought i was 6

are you saying that TLC is the 7th afterall?

[NHyler]

Does anyone know who that is preaching at Landmark right now?

[StMark]

kewl.

Has anyone considered there may be a few hundred men there who accompanied their wife to the Ladies Meeting? Perhaps they walked over to the other meeting to scope it out. It gets old waiting in the hotel rooms.... not much on TV....


There are a lot of people just going to spectate too. I know some myself :walking:

[StMark]

Does anyone know who that is preaching at Landmark right now?


bro willoughby]

was suppose to be Than haney- don't know what happend

[Hoovie]

6 or 7??? I thought i was 6

are you saying that TLC is the 7th afterall?

Read the code brother!

There were seven spainish angels at the altar of the sun...

[Scooter]

Bro. Willouby is preaching at Landmark.

[Hoovie]

Does anyone know who that is preaching at Landmark right now?

Howdy!

Please state your name, and the state you live in, then you can resume posting.

[rgcraig]

will service ever get over???

Are you there?

[CC1]

bro willoughby]

was suppose to be Than haney- don't know what happend

I was wondering about that myself. Than is listed on the website but this old guy WillowB is preaching.

I had prepared myself for Than by running to the kitchen and grabbing a bottle of no doze and got a strong pot of coffee brewing only to see he is not speaking for some reason. I also was hoping to get some fashion pointers on what kind of vest to wear. Rats...........:shocked:

[CC1]

Are you there?

He is there in awe with mouth Agape.:stretch:

[Discerner]

When did he say he wasn't going???

Well he told people he wasnt going, even people in St. Louis. Very high up official.

[Pastor G]

I was wondering about that myself. Than is listed on the website but this old guy WillowB is preaching.

I had prepared myself for Than by running to the kitchen and grabbing a bottle of no doze and got a strong pot of coffee brewing only to see he is not speaking for some reason. I also was hoping to get some fashion pointers on what kind of vest to wear. Rats...........:shocked:



hahahahahahaha

[StMark]

I was wondering about that myself. Than is listed on the website but this old guy WillowB is preaching.

I had prepared myself for Than by running to the kitchen and grabbing a bottle of no doze and got a strong pot of coffee brewing only to see he is not speaking for some reason. I also was hoping to get some fashion pointers on what kind of vest to wear. Rats...........:shocked:


That sure was cold! :exercise:

I wonder if maybe he wasn't feeling well ?

[Steve Epley]

I am going to bed they are still in service all 7 were to speak it might be a marathon since some of them are long winded anyways. Men will be posting when they get out but I can't stay up. I will catch up in the morning.

[StMark]

I am going to bed they are still in service all 7 were to speak it might be a marathon since some of them are long winded anyways. Men will be posting when they get out but I can't stay up. I will catch up in the morning.
'

You need to get your rest anyways it's already mid night where you are.
If you don't take care there are several here who are coming after you!!

[Neck]

Some of the brethren from CAF are going to be reporting on the meeting I will report about the crowd size and so forth on this thread. Of course I will not post any info that would be considered private as to CAF. But that which I feel will not violate and CAF rules I will be happy to report.


Bro Epley, I trust the Lord is with you..

Nate

[StMark]

Bro. George Guy referenced tulsa without saying it tonight at Landmark

He said that a preacher offered to pay his way to a meeting that he does not want to go to - Guy said he was glad that he was at Landmark instead.

[CC1]

That sure was cold! :exercise:

I wonder if maybe he wasn't feeling well ?

I would think it would have to be something significant to keep him from preaching at the conference.

Who is this Bro. Willoughby? I think I have heard his name before. He just talked about 9 Roman Catholics a week getting Holy Ghost or baptized in his church every week for three years. That would be 1500 converts in three years! Where does he pastor? What is the name of his church? Does anyone know if this story is current or an old one?

[ChicagoPastor]

Bro. George Guy referenced tulsa without saying it tonight at Landmark

He said that a preacher offered to pay his way to a meeting that he does not want to go to - Guy said he was glad that he was at Landmark instead.

I heard that as well!

[Neck]

I would think it would have to be something significant to keep him from preaching at the conference.

Who is this Bro. Willoughby? I think I have heard his name before. He just talked about 9 Roman Catholics a week getting Holy Ghost or baptized in his church every week for three years. That would be 1500 converts in three years! Where does he pastor? What is the name of his church? Does anyone know if this story is current or an old one?

I thought he was a missionary...

[Pastor G]

I would think it would have to be something significant to keep him from preaching at the conference.

Who is this Bro. Willoughby? I think I have heard his name before. He just talked about 9 Roman Catholics a week getting Holy Ghost or baptized in his church every week for three years. That would be 1500 converts in three years! Where does he pastor? What is the name of his church? Does anyone know if this story is current or an old one?

he is a missionary

[CC1]

Ah! Where is he a missionary to?

[StMark]

I would think it would have to be something significant to keep him from preaching at the conference.

Who is this Bro. Willoughby? I think I have heard his name before. He just talked about 9 Roman Catholics a week getting Holy Ghost or baptized in his church every week for three years. That would be 1500 converts in three years! Where does he pastor? What is the name of his church? Does anyone know if this story is current or an old one?


I believe he is/was a missionary somewhere in Asia?? Singapore I believe.
If memory serves me correctly, his wife was sick with cancer last summer.

[MissBrattified]

***** NEWS FLASH *****


Did you hear that the UPC Oklahoma Ladies conference is going on at the same time AND AND AND at the same hotel !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





.

Not true. :)

[Neck]

he is a missionary

That is what I thought. I knew I was still up on my UPCI roots....

[CC1]

OK - thanks for trying. Keep us informed please if there are updates (like if they start preaching circumcision is mandatory)


Whew, I'm saved!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:stretch:

[StMark]

Not true. :)



Yes true

[Pastor G]

Ah! Where is he a missionary to?

used to be singapore maybe still is but he is phenominal he has seen an incredible work over there

[Cindy]

Ah! Where is he a missionary to?

I think China

[StMark]

used to be singapore maybe still is but he is phenominal he has seen an incredible work over there

I think they have BOTT there in the summer

Bro stoneking does a crusade there every year too

[ChicagoPastor]

MARK!
his wife is on the front row!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[lad]

I believe he is/was a missionary somewhere in Asia?? Singapore I believe.
If memory serves me correctly, his wife passed away last summer.

She spoke today at Ladies Landmark. She has been fighting cancer.

[CC1]

MARK!
his wife is on the front row!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Whose wife?

[ChicagoPastor]

Bro. Willoughby is a missionary to Singapore but has a burden for China as well.
his wife IS alive! She has cancer that was in remission but has come back but she's doing better...

[Hoovie]

Thad you are batting about 4 in 10 tonight.

[ChicagoPastor]

Whose wife?

Mark said he thought Steve Willoughby's wife had passed away!
she's on the front row at Landmark.

[StMark]

She spoke today at Ladies Landmark. She has been fighting cancer.


ooops i changed my post- too much information sorry I can't keep up!

I think i need to hire a secretary just to keep up with all the news i get :stretch:

[freeatlast]

Any news reports from WholeHearted yet?

[Scooter]

400 Average That is without HGH and would put him in the Hall of Fame

[Hoovie]

Any news reports from WholeHearted yet?

No just halfhearted stuff filtering in....

[StMark]

Mark said he thought Steve Willoughby's wife had passed away!
she's on the front row at Landmark.


i changed it to - she was very ill this past summer
IF IF IF i remember right things were not going too well ....

[freeatlast]

No just halfhearted stuff filtering in....

Ha Ha ....is that Menonite humor ??? :stretch:

[ChicagoPastor]

Mark, just for the naysayers, can you confirm one more time that the WWPF IS meeting in the same hotel as the OK Ladie's Conference??????????/

[MissBrattified]

Yes true

If it is the UPCI Ladies' Conference, then it isn't true. Our Ladies' Conference was in November.

Anyway, if it WAS going on at the same time, I'd be there, and then play hooky to go to the Summit. :D

[ChicagoPastor]

If it is the UPCI Ladies' Conference, then it isn't true. Our Ladies' Conference was in November.

Anyway, if it WAS going on at the same time, I'd be there, and then play hooky to go to the Summit. :D

He said the Oklahoma Ladies' Conference.

[AGAPE]

service is over

yes I'm here, no I'm not there

[Hoovie]

Ha Ha ....is that Menonite humor ??? :stretch:

Am I being profiled by my religion? I'm suing!

[freeatlast]

He said the Oklahoma Ladies' Conference.

Maybe it's the first annual WPF ladies conference.

[StMark]

If it is the UPCI Ladies' Conference, then it isn't true. Our Ladies' Conference was in November.

Anyway, if it WAS going on at the same time, I'd be there, and then play hooky to go to the Summit. :D


let me re check my email - it's some kind of conference going on with your district and it's downtown at the radisson

[Melody]

or they have it listed in correctly at headquarters?

Oklahoma Ladies Retreat 11/14/2008 - 11/15/2008
Contact: Kala Martin #918-652-2296/Email: kmartin@dewarupc.org
Division: Ladies Ministries


guess you could call sis martin, but I don't think she would appreciate it right now

[jrLA]

The OK Dist website said that there was a minsters meeting scheduled for the same date as the Tulsa Tango...Friend of mine said that this was "ministers meeting" was scheduled for Tulsa, Jan 24 & 25--put on the calendar way before this Tulsa things was scheduled. No word on weather the meeting went on or not.

[Sunni]

WPF is not meeting in a hotel anyway...

There looked to be close to 1500- as told to me

The board spoke

Bro. Wilson closed it out tonight

[Scooter]

according to UPCI.org the OK ladies mtg is in Nov. 08

[jrLA]

let me re check my email - it's some kind of conference going on with your district and it's downtown at the radisson

According to my sources...yes there was supposed to be a "Minsters Meeting" same time, same station! Did it happen...not sure!:walking:

[MissBrattified]

according to UPCI.org the OK ladies mtg is in Nov. 08

Right! Our meeting is always in November.

[Hoovie]

WPF is not meeting in a hotel anyway...

There looked to be close to 1500- as told to me

The board spoke

Bro. Wilson closed it out tonight

Hi Sunni!

Tell us, were there any Shiites there as well?

[freeatlast]

WPF is not meeting in a hotel anyway...

There looked to be close to 1500- as told to me

The board spoke

Bro. Wilson closed it out tonight

So theyhave said the final amen and dismissed to local Denny's for the meeting after the meeting???

[ChicagoPastor]

For those watching the Landmark webcast, is anyone else getting sick? The camera man needs to hold that camera still! They're moving around more than the preacher!!
so sad......we did this to ourselves by not allowing TV sooner :) pray for our camera men!

[Scooter]

I am expecting Bro. WillowB's teeth to fly across the platform any moment now.

[Scooter]

Bro. Willowb could pass at Bro. A. Mangun

[CC1]

Bro. Willowb could pass at Bro. A. Mangun

LOL!!! Less than 5 minutes ago I told my wife that he looks like AM a little.

[Sunni]

Hi Sunni!

Tell us, were there any Shiites there as well?

HA, HA...try the alternate pronunciation...hint-look at pic....:biggrin:

[StMark]

Right! Our meeting is always in November.


hold on I'll let you know what conference it was - it was okla dist.

[Hoovie]

HA, HA...try the alternate pronunciation...hint-look at pic....:biggrin:

OK then!! Welcome!

[StMark]

I am expecting Bro. WillowB's teeth to fly across the platform any moment now.



show some respect

[Hoovie]

hold on I'll let you know what conference it was - it was okla dist.

How long does it take to check your mail? I think you are buying time...

[The Dean]

Just got information: It ended about 15 minutes ago with Nate Wilson speaking. Wayne McClain opened it up they said with prayer and took quite a while. They said it broke out in a good spirit of prayer to start the meeting.

There were over 1,000 ministers there according to a young man out from under my ministry. They said Booker did wonderful as did Godair. Obviously the TV advertising issue came up but nothing said against the UPC. They said that the name 'UPC' was only mentioned once - period.

It was made very clear that they were not going to restrict UPC speakers from their pulpits. Their intention is to coexist as a more organized form of the 'conservative leaning' brethren they have always been.

It appeared, according to my 'source', that they were intentionally NOT being derogatory about the UPC. They pretty much let it be known (in so many words) that it would not be tolerated. They said that an accurate count was just over 1,000 ministers with others there who weren't ministers.

The building was pretty full except in the balcony to the right of the platform. They said there were 6 or 7 rows there still open. The floor level was way overcrowded they said. Some left because it was too crowded.

They allowed no picture taking (except the designated person) and no laptops open - for obvious reasons!

[Ron]

For those watching the Landmark webcast, is anyone else getting sick? The camera man needs to hold that camera still! They're moving around more than the preacher!!
so sad......we did this to ourselves by not allowing TV sooner :) pray for our camera men!

If we ever video a service & I am chosen to run the camera, I usually get into trouble because I get off & worship God!

Maybe that is happening here!

[Hoovie]

show some respect

Speaking of repect... I see no one has "thanked" you yet!


:walking:

[MissBrattified]

hold on I'll let you know what conference it was - it was okla dist.

Okey Doke! :coffee2

[MissBrattified]

Just got information: It ended about 15 minutes ago with Nate Wilson speaking. Wayne McClain opened it up they said with prayer and took quite a while. They said it broke out in a good spirit of prayer to start the meeting.

There were over 1,000 ministers there according to a young man out from under my ministry. They said Booker did wonderful as did Godair. Obviously the TV advertising issue came up but nothing said against the UPC. They said that the name 'UPC' was only mentioned once - period.

It was made very clear that they were not going to restrict UPC speakers from their pulpits. Their intention is to coexist as a more organized form of the 'conservative leaning' brethren they have always been.

It appeared, according to my 'source', that they were intentionally NOT being derogatory about the UPC. They pretty much let it be known (in so many words) that it would not be tolerated. They said that an accurate count was just over 1,000 ministers with others there who weren't ministers.

The building was pretty full except in the balcony to the right of the platform. They said there were 6 or 7 rows there still open. The floor level was way overcrowded they said. Some left because it was too crowded.

They allowed no picture taking (except the designated person) and no laptops open - for obvious reasons!

Thanks for posting!

[Hoovie]

Thank you Dean!

[ChicagoPastor]

Just got information: It ended about 15 minutes ago with Nate Wilson speaking. Wayne McClain opened it up they said with prayer and took quite a while. They said it broke out in a good spirit of prayer to start the meeting.

There were over 1,000 ministers there according to a young man out from under my ministry. They said Booker did wonderful as did Godair. Obviously the TV advertising issue came up but nothing said against the UPC. They said that the name 'UPC' was only mentioned once - period.

It was made very clear that they were not going to restrict UPC speakers from their pulpits. Their intention is to coexist as a more organized form of the 'conservative leaning' brethren they have always been.

It appeared, according to my 'source', that they were intentionally NOT being derogatory about the UPC. They pretty much let it be known (in so many words) that it would not be tolerated. They said that an accurate count was just over 1,000 ministers with others there who weren't ministers.

The building was pretty full except in the balcony to the right of the platform. They said there were 6 or 7 rows there still open. The floor level was way overcrowded they said. Some left because it was too crowded.

They allowed no picture taking (except the designated person) and no laptops open - for obvious reasons!

Thanks, Dean.
Do you know if they are going to sell CD's of the services there??

[StMark]

How long does it take to check your mail? I think you are buying time...


I have so many emails and PMs i couldn't find it - waiting for the person to come on the forum

[CC1]

Just got information: It ended about 15 minutes ago with Nate Wilson speaking. Wayne McClain opened it up they said with prayer and took quite a while. They said it broke out in a good spirit of prayer to start the meeting.

There were over 1,000 ministers there according to a young man out from under my ministry. They said Booker did wonderful as did Godair. Obviously the TV advertising issue came up but nothing said against the UPC. They said that the name 'UPC' was only mentioned once - period.

It was made very clear that they were not going to restrict UPC speakers from their pulpits. Their intention is to coexist as a more organized form of the 'conservative leaning' brethren they have always been.

It appeared, according to my 'source', that they were intentionally NOT being derogatory about the UPC. They pretty much let it be known (in so many words) that it would not be tolerated. They said that an accurate count was just over 1,000 ministers with others there who weren't ministers.

The building was pretty full except in the balcony to the right of the platform. They said there were 6 or 7 rows there still open. The floor level was way overcrowded they said. Some left because it was too crowded.

They allowed no picture taking (except the designated person) and no laptops open - for obvious reasons!

Thanks for the report. So if the number of ministers there was around 1,000 that is about half what they were anticipating (the 2,000 number had been bandied about) but probably double what the UPC was hoping.

What will be interesting is to see the percentage of those attending who sign up. If the 1,000 number is accurate and half sign up that would be an impressive start with 500 ministers.

[MissBrattified]

I have so many emails and PMs i couldn't find it - waiting for the person to come on the forum

It's no biggie! I don't doubt there's something going on. I just know it isn't Ladies' Conf.

[Hoovie]

It was made very clear that they were not going to restrict UPC speakers from their pulpits. Their intention is to coexist as a more organized form of the 'conservative leaning' brethren they have always been.



Does anyone rember the Republican Assembly? I did'nt think so.

[Sunni]

THEY (as in the six) weren't communicating that 2000 number...the building capacity is not even that much...

[StMark]

It's no biggie! I don't doubt there's something going on. I just know it isn't Ladies' Conf.

i will post it as soon as i can

[StMark]

THEY (as in the six) weren't communicating that 2000 number...the building capacity is not even that much...


But AGAPE said it was the 7

ummmmm

[The Dean]

Thanks, Dean.
Do you know if they are going to sell CD's of the services there??

It was said that they are going to make CD's of every session available.

[The Dean]

Thanks for the report. So if the number of ministers there was around 1,000 that is about half what they were anticipating (the 2,000 number had been bandied about) but probably double what the UPC was hoping.

What will be interesting is to see the percentage of those attending who sign up. If the 1,000 number is accurate and half sign up that would be an impressive start with 500 ministers.

Remember, CC1, that one of their big 'drawing cards' is that you don't have to 'sign up' to be a part of their fellowship. Many, if not most, are keeping their UPC credentials.

I've said from the beginning that I expect only about 500 to 700 total to drop the UPC. That will quickly double if the UPC tries to put them 'off limits'.

The actual number of a little over 1,000 was accurate as they did a genuine count. I'm not sure how many were there who weren't ministers but they did say the building was pretty much full - and too full on the floor for comfort.

I was pleased to hear that they were careful to not allow UPC bashing.

[The Dean]

But AGAPE said it was the 7

ummmmm
There was actually more than the '6' plus '1' tonight. Various others were in the pulpit for different reasons.

[StMark]

There was actually more than the '6' plus '1' tonight. Various others were in the pulpit for different reasons.


and WHY didn't you go ????????????????????????????????????????

[George]

Remember, CC1, that one of their big 'drawing cards' is that you don't have to 'sign up' to be a part of their fellowship. Many, if not most, are keeping their UPC credentials.

I've said from the beginning that I expect only about 500 to 700 total to drop the UPC. That will quickly double if the UPC tries to put them 'off limits'.

The actual number of a little over 1,000 was accurate as they did a genuine count. I'm not sure how many were there who weren't ministers but they did say the building was pretty much full - and too full on the floor for comfort.

I was pleased to hear that they were careful to not allow UPC bashing.

Surely you did not think they would UPC bash?

[CC1]

Remember, CC1, that one of their big 'drawing cards' is that you don't have to 'sign up' to be a part of their fellowship. Many, if not most, are keeping their UPC credentials.

I've said from the beginning that I expect only about 500 to 700 total to drop the UPC. That will quickly double if the UPC tries to put them 'off limits'.

The actual number of a little over 1,000 was accurate as they did a genuine count. I'm not sure how many were there who weren't ministers but they did say the building was pretty much full - and too full on the floor for comfort.

I was pleased to hear that they were careful to not allow UPC bashing.


If they stay positive and continue to avoid UPC bashing AND if the UPC does not knee jerk overreact and try to ban the new org. then they might just be able to co-exist peacefully. It will be a real test though because old time Oneness Pentecost does not have a history of being tolerant of competing organizations. A lot of token gestures but not much else over the years.

[The Dean]

and WHY didn't you go ????????????????????????????????????????

Cause the Lord wouldn't let me.

Next question?

[StMark]

If they stay positive and continue to avoid UPC bashing AND if the UPC does not knee jerk overreact and try to ban the new org. then they might just be able to co-exist peacefully. It will be a real test though because old time Oneness Pentecost does not have a history of being tolerant of competing organizations. A lot of token gestures but not much else over the years.



sorry but i seriously doubt this and im not going into all the reasons but several here will understand

[StMark]

Cause the Lord wouldn't let me.

Next question?


O come on now be serious

[The Dean]

If they stay positive and continue to avoid UPC bashing AND if the UPC does not knee jerk overreact and try to ban the new org. then they might just be able to co-exist peacefully. It will be a real test though because old time Oneness Pentecost does not have a history of being tolerant of competing organizations. A lot of token gestures but not much else over the years.

One could only hope, my friend. At some juncture I would hope the Apostolic movement as a whole would focus on the field instead of on internal fractures.

[Pastor G]

If they stay positive and continue to avoid UPC bashing AND if the UPC does not knee jerk overreact and try to ban the new org. then they might just be able to co-exist peacefully. It will be a real test though because old time Oneness Pentecost does not have a history of being tolerant of competing organizations. A lot of token gestures but not much else over the years.


I don't think they will be able to co-exist... In fact there will be an uproar of those in UPC if the ones who sign up for whatever they are offering in Tulsa are allowed to keep their credentials...

[The Dean]

O come on now be serious

What gave you any indication that I'm not serious?

Some things I don't joke about. God speaking to me is one of them.

I don't pretent to understand why. I do, however, obey what I'm told by the Almighty.

[The Dean]

I don't think they will be able to co-exist... In fact there will probably be an uproar of those in UPC if the ones who sign up for whatever they are offering in Tulsa are allowed to keep their credentials...

I hope not. That will instantly at least double the Tulsa crowd if the UPC does it.

Someone said, and I believe it, that while this issue may not be enough for some to 'break away' from the UPC over a large percentage of them agree with the concerns the Tulsa group have. If the UPC makes them look 'persecuted' for holding on to an issue of separation it will cause many to move Tulsa way.

[Ron]

One could only hope, my friend. At some juncture I would hope the Apostolic movement as a whole would focus on the field instead of on internal fractures.

Amen Brother, Amen!

[Pastor G]

I hope not. That will instantly at least double the Tulsa crowd if the UPC does it.

Someone said, and I believe it, that while this issue may not be enough for some to 'break away' from the UPC over a large percentage of them agree with the concerns the Tulsa group have. If the UPC makes them look 'persecuted' for holding on to an issue of separation it will cause many to move Tulsa way.

There are many in UPC that feel if they are allowed to keep their credentials with UPC, they as a group within a body, will control votes and push their agenda on every issue... If that happens, the exodus will happen on the other side... All of the possibilities are not pretty, but there are there none-the-less...

[StMark]

What gave you any indication that I'm not serious?

Some things I don't joke about. God speaking to me is one of them.

I don't pretent to understand why. I do, however, obey what I'm told by the Almighty.


well okay then - I did think you was kidding me
obey God!

[StMark]

There are many in UPC that feel if they are allowed to keep their credentials with UPC, they as a group within a body, will control votes and push their agenda on every issue... If that happens, the exodus will happen on the other side... All of the possibilities are not pretty, but there are there none-the-less...

there is a group urging Bro Haney to do something in this regard

[The Dean]

There are many in UPC that feel if they are allowed to keep their credentials with UPC, they as a group within a body, will control votes and push their agenda on every issue... If that happens, the exodus will happen on the other side... All of the possibilities are not pretty, but there are there none-the-less...

NEVER gonna happen. I do think that enough of the conservatives will pull out that there will never again be a close 50%/50% balance like there has been for the last several years.

You can be guarenteed that the organization will become decidedly more slanted towards moderate to liberal in their decisions.

[Pastor G]

NEVER gonna happen. I do think that enough of the conservatives will pull out that there will never again be a close 50%/50% balance like there has been for the last several years.

You can be guarenteed that the organization will become decidedly more slanted towards moderate to liberal in their decisions.

I agree if they pull out, but if they try to hold on to both and are allowed, the possibility remains..

[StMark]

* * * THIS FROM A PASTOR"S WIFE * * *


Wilson's main points were:
a. who created the situation (not to focus on that)
b. where do we go from here (let's focus on that)

[The Dean]

I agree if they pull out, but if they try to hold on to both and are allowed, the possibility remains..

The 500 to 700 who I think will pull out will be MORE than enough to imbalance that pretty even divide at every conference. And, additionally, those new ministers coming in - for the most part - are not going to be the more conservative minded people. Those may just start out with Tulsa since it more aligns to their beliefs.

[Pastor G]

The 500 to 700 who I think will pull out will be MORE than enough to imbalance that pretty even divide at every conference. And, additionally, those new ministers coming in - for the most part - are not going to be the more conservative minded people. Those may just start out with Tulsa since it more aligns to their beliefs.

I agree if that many pull out... However, I believe that only about half of that number that you say will pull out even go to conference and vote.. I believe a lot of the ones there are from smaller churches that don't get to go to conference too much... I could be wrong... If I am it will be the first time today... since it is just 19 minutes into the new day, I might be wrong a lot more before this time tomorrow..

[embonpoint]

there is a group urging Bro Haney to do something in this regard

NO! Say it ain't so! Not from the unifiers and reconcilers. Divide the body???

:shocked:

He says tic.

[Sunni]

If they stay positive and continue to avoid UPC bashing AND if the UPC does not knee jerk overreact and try to ban the new org. then they might just be able to co-exist peacefully. It will be a real test though because old time Oneness Pentecost does not have a history of being tolerant of competing organizations. A lot of token gestures but not much else over the years.

Co-exist peacefully...

Not off to a good start...some of the UPC letter writing has been disheartening from an organization that I have loved...

[embonpoint]

I agree if that many pull out... However, I believe that only about half of that number that you say will pull out even go to conference and vote.. I believe a lot of the ones there are from smaller churches that don't get to go to conference too much... I could be wrong... If I am it will be the first time today... since it is just 19 minutes into the new day, I might be wrong a lot more before this time tomorrow..

If 200 pull out that normally go to conference and vote that is a significant shift as there were only 2000 voters at Tampa.

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

If 200 pull out that normally go to conference and vote that is a significant shift as there were only 2000 voters at Tampa.

Get it straight, bub.

Only Twenty Seven left


:smilie_spam :TulsaTime: :TulsaROCKS: :TulsaNO:

[The Dean]

Just got this in from someone else at the Tulsa meeting...


Another thing that I forgot but now remember now that I am warm and in my hotel room is that - Bro. Booker told a story about a wise man that had bro. booker come and preach for him when bro. booker was a very young preacher. Bro. booker said this man was an icon in the movement back then and that if he mentioned his name everyone would either know him or has heard of him....Bro. Booker said that this man had him come and preach and LB was so intimidated because of how everyone revereed him and he was blown away that this man would want him (LB) to come and preach for him. He said that while he was sititng in his office, this wise man grabbed a chair and sat it in front of bro. booker and thier knees were touching and he leaned in real close to bro. booker and he said son - you remind me of myself when I was your age- ambitious, serious etc etc.. Bro. Booker said this wise man looked at him and said the upc will be around from now on - he said it will never go away, he said fifty years, four hundred years, he said from now on - the upci will always be here - he said but son - when I was your age - I started fighting - and bro. booker said this aged old wise man looked at him and said you see these hands - and bro. booker looked at his hands and this wise man has a far away look in his eyes and he stared at his own hands and said theres blood on these hands and I can not get them off and it haunts my soul- he said bro. booker remember this - no matter what the upc does it will always be around - don't have blood on your hands, dont fight it. With this bro. booker launched into how he can and will coexist with upc brethren etc... and this org is NOT going to be built around upc bashing etc etc...

[KarenJo]

That sure was cold! :exercise:

I wonder if maybe he wasn't feeling well ?



I agree, VERY COLD!!! Than Haney is a good guy with a good heart. Are you a friend of his? Or do you know him? You don't have to agree with him but don't talk bad about him or his ministry....

I think he spoke during Ladies Landmark today....Also, if Than felt that God wanted to change the schedule, then he wouldn't have a problem stepping aside...

[Pastor G]

I agree, VERY COLD!!! Than Haney is a good guy with a good heart. Are you a friend of his? Or do you know him? You don't have to agree with him but don't talk bad about him or his ministry....

I think he spoke during Ladies Landmark today....Also, if Than felt that God wanted to change the schedule, then he wouldn't have a problem stepping aside...

He was just stating his opinion that Than was kind of boring... He wasn't talking bad about him...

[Ron]

Just got this in from someone else at the Tulsa meeting...

Very wise words!

[StMark]

* * * NEWS FLASH ****

Have heard that UPC HeadQuaters sent undercover spies to Tulsa to
scoope it out and report back to SL????????????????????/




.

[StMark]

I agree, VERY COLD!!! Than Haney is a good guy with a good heart. Are you a friend of his? Or do you know him? You don't have to agree with him but don't talk bad about him or his ministry....

I think he spoke during Ladies Landmark today....Also, if Than felt that God wanted to change the schedule, then he wouldn't have a problem stepping aside...


CC1, you need to address this one

[PastorD]

I hope not. That will instantly at least double the Tulsa crowd if the UPC does it.

Someone said, and I believe it, that while this issue may not be enough for some to 'break away' from the UPC over a large percentage of them agree with the concerns the Tulsa group have. If the UPC makes them look 'persecuted' for holding on to an issue of separation it will cause many to move Tulsa way.

IMO, the only thing that is keeping them from being a FULL-BLOWN organization is that the key men that they want to lean heavy on are pastoring affiliated churches. I think it is more than obvious that the affiliated congregations are offering some resistance to leaving. Thus, the "Let's co-exist."

The 6 or 7 and the key men involved KNOW that they are DONE with UPC. They will never be seen as team players or supporters again. Showing up in Tulsa was like the burning of their boats....they cannot and will not return.

They have to promote the "co-exist" message to allow others time to work their churches out of affiliation.

[George]

Just got this in from someone else at the Tulsa meeting...

AND the wise man stayed with UPC till he died. I. H. Terry.

[NW Pastor]

I agree. This "co-exist" mentality is only a temporary comprimise while the organization gathers support and becomes established. Also, it is easier to recruit new members if you still have a fifth colum in the good old UPC.

[NW Pastor]

I have never fully understood the "leave the UPC now because it is on the road to perdition" push, yet retain your connections to said hell bound organization. What is accomplished by forming a new, pure fellowship when ministers are still connected to the clearly contaminated UPC?

Is this not a little like holding on to the world with one hand and your convictions with other? Comprimise?

[StMark]

IMO, the only thing that is keeping them from being a FULL-BLOWN organization is that the key men that they want to lean heavy on are pastoring affiliated churches. I think it is more than obvious that the affiliated congregations are offering some resistance to leaving. Thus, the "Let's co-exist."

The 6 or 7 and the key men involved KNOW that they are DONE with UPC. They will never be seen as team players or supporters again. Showing up in Tulsa was like the burning of their boats....they cannot and will not return.

They have to promote the "co-exist" message to allow others time to work their churches out of affiliation.


including TLC??????????????????????????????


interesting insight

[StMark]

I have never fully understood the "leave the UPC now because it is on the road to perdition" push, yet retain your connections to said hell bound organization. What is accomplished by forming a new, pure fellowship when ministers are still connected to the clearly contaminated UPC?

Is this not a little like holding on to the world with one hand and your convictions with other? Comprimise?

now that's an interesting Question - Do you think you can get an answer?? seriously. I wonder what the answer to this is

[The Dean]

I have never fully understood the "leave the UPC now because it is on the road to perdition" push, yet retain your connections to said hell bound organization. What is accomplished by forming a new, pure fellowship when ministers are still connected to the clearly contaminated UPC?

Is this not a little like holding on to the world with one hand and your convictions with other? Comprimise?

For the record, I've never heard anybody associated with the Tulsa group saying things like "leave the UPC now because it is on the road to perdition" or "the UPC is hellbound" or "they are contaminated" type stuff.

I've not heard anything remotely like that at all.

[deacon blues]

Concerning a OK District event taking place at the same time......

The District Minister's and Wives Retreat is taking place at the same Embassy Suites that the Tulsa Summit people had advertised as one of the hotel options on their mailer. This event was scheduled at least a year in advance, long before the Summit. The Summit is happening just a few miles down the road and the Embassy Suites has a lot of Apostolics staying there that are attending the Summit while the OK District is trying to conduct its retreat.

When the Summit organizers realized that they had selected a date the coincided with the OK District, they sent a letter to the DS apologizing for the error. Needless to say doning such a thing is highly unethical according to the sacred manual. First, if one is going to conduct a meeting in an area, independent of any UPC churches in the area, the organizer(s) of the meeting are supposed to contact and secure the permission of all area pastors before doing so according to the ethics section of the manual. None of the four Tulsa pastors (the only ones inside the city limits) were contacted, let alone granted their permission for such a meeting.

Second, once the Summit organizers learned of the conflict, the right thing to do would have been to reschedule. There was no attempt to do so. Just an apology for their honest mistake. I will grant them it was an honest mistake, but it was unethical nonetheless.

The retreat has a smaller crowd this year, probably due to the pull of the other meeting with some of the OK brethren.

[StMark]

Concerning a OK District event taking place at the same time......

The District Minister's and Wives Retreat is taking place at the same Embassy Suites that the Tulsa Summit people had advertised as one of the hotel options on their mailer. This event was scheduled at least a year in advance, long before the Summit. The Summit is happening just a few miles down the road and the Embassy Suites has a lot of Apostolics staying there that are attending the Summit while the OK District is trying to conduct its retreat.

When the Summit organizers realized that they had selected a date the coincided with the OK District, they sent a letter to the DS apologizing for the error. Needless to say doning such a thing is highly unethical according to the sacred manual. First, if one is going to conduct a meeting in an area, independent of any UPC churches in the area, the organizer(s) of the meeting are supposed to contact and secure the permission of all area pastors before doing so according to the ethics section of the manual. None of the four Tulsa pastors (the only ones inside the city limits) were contacted, let alone granted their permission for such a meeting.

Second, once the Summit organizers learned of the conflict, the right thing to do would have been to reschedule. There was no attempt to do so. Just an apology for their honest mistake. I will grant them it was an honest mistake, but it was unethical nonetheless.

The retreat has a smaller crowd this year, probably due to the pull of the other meeting with some of the OK brethren.


*** Attention Mrs. Bratfield ***


Here is the conference I was referring to.

[NW Pastor]

For the record, I've never heard anybody associated with the Tulsa group saying things like "leave the UPC now because it is on the road to perdition" or "the UPC is hellbound" or "they are contaminated" type stuff.

I've not heard anything remotely like that at all.

Actions speak louder than words. Double speak is alive and well in 2008.Clearly, they are not forming the WPF because they think the UPC is on the right track. Why form a new organization unless the old one is deemed to be unreformable? Why not work from the inside to promote change, rather than abandon that effort for a new endevor?

I think their actions speak for themselves. We have already felt the sting of followers of the dearly departed who are not able to say one thing and do another. Their words reveal verbally what the ministers repress.

[PastorD]

Concerning a OK District event taking place at the same time......

The District Minister's and Wives Retreat is taking place at the same Embassy Suites that the Tulsa Summit people had advertised as one of the hotel options on their mailer. This event was scheduled at least a year in advance, long before the Summit. The Summit is happening just a few miles down the road and the Embassy Suites has a lot of Apostolics staying there that are attending the Summit while the OK District is trying to conduct its retreat.

When the Summit organizers realized that they had selected a date the coincided with the OK District, they sent a letter to the DS apologizing for the error. Needless to say doning such a thing is highly unethical according to the sacred manual. First, if one is going to conduct a meeting in an area, independent of any UPC churches in the area, the organizer(s) of the meeting are supposed to contact and secure the permission of all area pastors before doing so according to the ethics section of the manual. None of the four Tulsa pastors (the only ones inside the city limits) were contacted, let alone granted their permission for such a meeting.

Second, once the Summit organizers learned of the conflict, the right thing to do would have been to reschedule. There was no attempt to do so. Just an apology for their honest mistake. I will grant them it was an honest mistake, but it was unethical nonetheless.

The retreat has a smaller crowd this year, probably due to the pull of the other meeting with some of the OK brethren.



Same 'honest' mistake with initial Summit in Houston. They said they didn't know they were supposed to contact DS or area men and that it was an oversight. Hmmm......

[CountryRev]

including TLC??????????????????????????????


interesting insight

I spoke with TLC on the phone last week. When asked if he was leaving the UPC, he told me - "I'm not even thinking about it. I'm more UPC than the Tamp or Tulsa crowd"

Furthermore, he instructed me to let his presbyter know that he wasn't going anywhere.

Just thought I would clarify.

[deacon blues]

I was told a young pastor came marching in to the Embassy Suites wearing a self- designed "I Love UPC" Tshirt (Think of the "I Love NY" logo with a heart in place of the word "love"). He was politely asked to not wear it by his superiors. The guy had about 20 of them made and was going to pass them out. Wish a had a photo of the scene before hetook off the shirt!

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Deacon are you in Tulsa for the retreat?







There is a boat show there next week too.

[deacon blues]

Same 'honest' mistake with initial Summit in Houston. They said they didn't know they were supposed to contact DS or area men and that it was an oversight. Hmmm......

Ambition can be blinding.

[George]

For the record, I've never heard anybody associated with the Tulsa group saying things like "leave the UPC now because it is on the road to perdition" or "the UPC is hellbound" or "they are contaminated" type stuff.

I've not heard anything remotely like that at all.

They may not have used those words verbatim but they are telling their saints to stay away from UPC people. I personally know several young people who had close friends in some of these churches and their friends are not allowed to fellowship them anymore. That closely translates to the above phrases.

[deacon blues]

Deacon are you in Tulsa for the retreat?







There is a boat show there next week too.

Nah, I can't ge the time off since I went to BOTT. I just have a good friend thats there.

[SecretWarrior]

For the record, I've never heard anybody associated with the Tulsa group saying things like "leave the UPC now because it is on the road to perdition" or "the UPC is hellbound" or "they are contaminated" type stuff.

I've not heard anything remotely like that at all.


Ever hear of a message called "Protecting the bean patch"?

[PastorD]

Just got information: It ended about 15 minutes ago with Nate Wilson speaking. Wayne McClain opened it up they said with prayer and took quite a while. They said it broke out in a good spirit of prayer to start the meeting.

There were over 1,000 ministers there according to a young man out from under my ministry. They said Booker did wonderful as did Godair. Obviously the TV advertising issue came up but nothing said against the UPC. They said that the name 'UPC' was only mentioned once - period.

It was made very clear that they were not going to restrict UPC speakers from their pulpits. Their intention is to coexist as a more organized form of the 'conservative leaning' brethren they have always been.

It appeared, according to my 'source', that they were intentionally NOT being derogatory about the UPC. They pretty much let it be known (in so many words) that it would not be tolerated. They said that an accurate count was just over 1,000 ministers with others there who weren't ministers.

The building was pretty full except in the balcony to the right of the platform. They said there were 6 or 7 rows there still open. The floor level was way overcrowded they said. Some left because it was too crowded.

They allowed no picture taking (except the designated person) and no laptops open - for obvious reasons!


Thy speech betrays thee . . .

:shhh

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

They may not have used those words verbatim but they are telling their saints to stay away from UPC people. I personally know several young people who had close friends in some of these churches and their friends are not allowed to fellowship them anymore. That closely translates to the above phrases.

George do you have anything at all positive to post on this forum?

:TulsaROCKS:

[George]

Ever hear of a message called "Protecting the bean patch"?

Now we are talking proof of their UPC bashing. Booker took the text from Steve McMullens message years ago at PSR and it is on Bookers church website. He even tells his congregation he did not mean to get into so much but...

[embonpoint]

I have never fully understood the "leave the UPC now because it is on the road to perdition" push, yet retain your connections to said hell bound organization. What is accomplished by forming a new, pure fellowship when ministers are still connected to the clearly contaminated UPC?

Is this not a little like holding on to the world with one hand and your convictions with other? Comprimise?

And this harms you, how? This affects the harvest in your field. how?
If these men fellowship together, preach truth, support missions, have revival, refrain from speaking evil of the UPC, then why do you care?

To date the only accusations I have seen have come from leadership on one side of this issue. I have read that the WPF "will come to naught" but have not seen in any of the WPF materials the "leave the UPC now because it is on the road to perdition" quote you use.

Maybe you can point me to where on their website or mail outs anything negative is said about the UPCI?

[StMark]

I was told a young pastor came marching in to the Embassy Suites wearing a self- designed "I Love UPC" Tshirt (Think of the "I Love NY" logo with a heart in place of the word "love"). He was politely asked to not wear it by his superiors. The guy had about 20 of them made and was going to pass them out. Wish a had a photo of the scene before hetook off the shirt!

Hey!!! who is this person??? maybe HE is the one who wrote that satire :jogging:

[George]

George do you have anything at all positive to post on this forum?

:TulsaROCKS:

Sure. I am leasing them space at my used car dealership for the big boat sale.

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Now we are talking proof of their UPC bashing. Booker took the text from Steve McMullens message years ago at PSR and it is on Bookers church website. He even tells his congregation he did not mean to get into so much but...

:digging

George, I heard "Defending The Lentiles Of Pentecost" while in High School. As a new preacher in search of good sermons, I used the text once myself.

[StMark]

I spoke with TLC on the phone last week. When asked if he was leaving the UPC, he told me - "I'm not even thinking about it. I'm more UPC than the Tamp or Tulsa crowd"

Furthermore, he instructed me to let his presbyter know that he wasn't going anywhere.

Just thought I would clarify.

Thanks CR

Pastor D, any comments on this one ?

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Sure. I am leasing them space at my used car dealership for the big boat sale.

[putting on the Admin hat here]

Since I am soon to go to bed, I am not logging off and back as Admin, but your personal attacks are going to see you not have the joy of spamming here.

capiche?

I encourage others to report such negative attack and run posts.

[StMark]

Sure. I am leasing them space at my used car dealership for the big boat sale.

:shocked::shocked::shocked::shocked:
HILARIOUS!

[PastorD]

I spoke with TLC on the phone last week. When asked if he was leaving the UPC, he told me - "I'm not even thinking about it. I'm more UPC than the Tamp or Tulsa crowd"

Furthermore, he instructed me to let his presbyter know that he wasn't going anywhere.

Just thought I would clarify.

Poor Bro. C . . . somebody needs to cut his phone line.

:oops :digging

[George]

:theyareontome:[putting on the Admin hat here]

Since I am soon to go to bed, I am not logging off and back as Admin, but your personal attacks are going to see you not have the joy of spamming here.

capiche?

I encourage others to report such negative attack and run posts.

:theyareontome:

[StMark]

Poor Bro. C . . . somebody needs to cut his phone line.

:oops :digging


why is that ?>>??

[PastorD]

why is that ?>>??

So him can't talk.

:theyareontome:

[KarenJo]

He was just stating his opinion that Than was kind of boring... He wasn't talking bad about him...


I have no problem with people having their own opinion but Than was my Youth Pastor..Like every preacher, everyone one has good days and bad days.

[StMark]

So him can't talk.

:theyareontome:



:statbike:

[embonpoint]

They may not have used those words verbatim but they are telling their saints to stay away from UPC people. I personally know several young people who had close friends in some of these churches and their friends are not allowed to fellowship them anymore. That closely translates to the above phrases.

There is a difference in not fellowshipping because they are UPC and not fellowshipping because there are differing views or convictions.
Some believe that if it is UPC it should be fellowshipped no questions asked.

I believe that this is part of the new paradigm the Tulsa group is trying to establish i.e. fellowship is not based on a card or certificate but on life and message whether independent, UPC, ALJC, PAW LMNOP or whatever. Interestingly the same thing seems to also be happening on the more liberal end of the spectrum.

[PastorD]

*** Attention Mrs. Bratfield ***


Here is the conference I was referring to.

Darrell Johns preached 'that' meeting tonight.

[embonpoint]

Darrell Johns preached 'that' meeting tonight.

I wonder if his brother was at the other one?

[PastorD]

I wonder if his brother was at the other one?

Wow.....don't get me started.

[StMark]

Darrell Johns preached 'that' meeting tonight.


Did he go over and check out what was going on at WPF?

[Joseph Miller]

I hope not. That will instantly at least double the Tulsa crowd if the UPC does it.

Someone said, and I believe it, that while this issue may not be enough for some to 'break away' from the UPC over a large percentage of them agree with the concerns the Tulsa group have. If the UPC makes them look 'persecuted' for holding on to an issue of separation it will cause many to move Tulsa way.


It is not an issue of seperation, it is about outreach.

[Barb]

they are in somewhat of an "answering q's" stage at the moment...
we will see...
so far the following have been spotted in attendance::

Randy Keyes
Jerry Jones
J Mark Jordan
Paul Mooney
Dan Segraves


Just kidding.....don't know if any of those Elders are there

I know you are kidding, but it just dawned on me...RK is like a brother to Bishop W...

[Barb]

And this harms you, how? This affects the harvest in your field. how?
If these men fellowship together, preach truth, support missions, have revival, refrain from speaking evil of the UPC, then why do you care?

To date the only accusations I have seen have come from leadership on one side of this issue. I have read that the WPF "will come to naught" but have not seen in any of the WPF materials the "leave the UPC now because it is on the road to perdition" quote you use.

Maybe you can point me to where on their website or mail outs anything negative is said about the UPCI?

Bash the UPCI?! They wouldn't be so blatant, but sectarian?! That's another issue.

From the WPF site...

"The Preamble of the Worldwide Pentecostal Fellowship is an articulation of its general intent and purpose. The formation of WPF is an outgrowth of the changing times and directions within the North American apostolic movement and is the result of a constellation of events and decisions which have shaped apostolic direction for some time—some, we fear, for the worse, and ours hopefully for the better."

In other words, our way is the better way...'we' are right and 'they' are wrong.

Strange isn't it?! The only 'us' and 'them' that used to go on was between 'us' and Trinitarians.

And this...

"WPF is an honest attempt to embrace and work with any and all authentic Apostolics..."

Who are the authentic Apostolics?!

Who is qualified to make that distinction?!

Listen...one of the wives of the Tulsa Six spoke to a friend of mine in her church and said, "You know who your friends are!!"

So if folks disagree with them, they are no longer firends?!

They drew the line here...

[papapraiz]

Thank You!

[Sarah]

Co-exist peacefully...

Not off to a good start...some of the UPC letter writing has been disheartening from an organization that I have loved...


All involved might say, and want to co-exist peacefully, but sooner or later, that will be a dream from the past.

I wonder if the leaders of the 'organizations' will confer with each other when it's time to schedule meetings for the year? And are the ministers of the new 'organization' going to support both 'organizations'?

Seems impossible to me that the ministers can support both 'organizations'. It will get mighty expensive after a while. And if their views are so different that they will form another group, then, probably, the UPCI will be left behind eventually.

[Melody]

After last years youth congress I want an alternative for my children.
Is it wrong to want your children to hold dear the same things you were taught as a child? Earlier someone mentioned that things will just go more liberal, I don't want that, I want to grow closer to Godly principles.

[Barb]

After last years youth congress I want an alternative for my children.
Is it wrong to want your children to hold dear the same things you were taught as a child? Earlier someone mentioned that things will just go more liberal, I don't want that, I want to grow closer to Godly principles.

No, of course this isn't wrong, and was even spoken to me as being the main reason for the new org.

However, these same folk have long ago stopped allowing their youth to attend youth camps and such, choosing to conduct their own events.

So some things just don't make sense...

[Sarah]

After last years youth congress I want an alternative for my children.
Is it wrong to want your children to hold dear the same things you were taught as a child? Earlier someone mentioned that things will just go more liberal, I don't want that, I want to grow closer to Godly principles.

Melody, it is absolutely not wrong for us to want for our children what we were taught, and what we've taught them. I hold these same biblical principles dear also. What I'm saying is, I just don't think these two 'organizations' will always fellowship, as a whole. Maybe for a while, but not always.

I hope I am proven wrong. I said once before........I just hate the thought of never hearing Bro Booker, and others, preach again at our campmeeting. These men of God have always been such a blessing to us, and have for years.

I just hope they didn't leave too quick.

[pelathais]

I had to be away from the board last night so I missed the play-by-play. Reading the through the thread I got the impression from reports on Tulsa that thare were about 1,000 in attendance and about 80% of that crows was "preachers."

Is that tally correct? Too high, too low? Brother Craft preached but nothing was said about the message. What tone did he take? Anything noteworthy said?

Just trying to catch up here. Thanks.

[pelathais]

After last years youth congress I want an alternative for my children.
Is it wrong to want your children to hold dear the same things you were taught as a child? Earlier someone mentioned that things will just go more liberal, I don't want that, I want to grow closer to Godly principles.
What specifically did you see that was wrong with last year's Youth Congress?

I know they tried some new things; you would expect some of those things to be received well and others not to be repeated. What things did you have a problem with?

[revrandy]

Co-Exist is interesting...

for the most part the some of the WD brethern don't allow their kids to participate in district functions...they have their own camps, and last year their own camp meeting...

they don't preach folks who preach for Pastors they consider more liberal....

I think CO-Exist means you can still buy my books, have me preach for you and we can use your name....but fellowship..."well we choose WHO we will fellowship based upon our "Preferred Apostolic" future.....we won't preach folks like Mangun, Haney or Stoneking and any others we deem not "Preferred"....

But there are some up and coming folks we would like to have join our group...

we can co-exist but will only do so at arms length...

There is a reason they aren't slamming the UPC or any other....they can't afford to....

imo....

[Barb]

Co-Exist is interesting...

for the most part the some of the WD brethern don't allow their kids to participate in district functions...they have their own camps, and last year their own camp meeting...

they don't preach folks who preach for Pastors they consider more liberal....

I think CO-Exist means you can still buy my books, have me preach for you and we can use your name....but fellowship..."well we choose WHO we will fellowship based upon our "Preferred Apostolic" future.....we won't preach folks like Mangun, Haney or Stoneking and any others we deem not "Preferred"....

But there are some up and coming folks we would like to have join our group...

we can co-exist but will only do so at arms length...

There is a reason they aren't slamming the UPC or any other....they can't afford to....

imo....

No, of course this isn't wrong, and was even spoken to me as being the main reason for the new org.

However, these same folk have long ago stopped allowing their youth to attend youth camps and such, choosing to conduct their own events.

So some things just don't make sense...
Two great minds, Randy...

[chseeads]

It's really all just a punch of political poo. That's about the long and the short of it. :)

[revrandy]

Two great minds, Randy...

Thas' Cuz We Got history!!

[Barb]

Thas' Cuz We Got history!!

LOL!! That's cuz we know too much!!

[Melody]

What specifically did you see that was wrong with last year's Youth Congress?

I know they tried some new things; you would expect some of those things to be received well and others not to be repeated. What things did you have a problem with?

Did you know that this young lady, http://www.prphotos.com/store/catego...hleen%20Herles

http://images.google.com/images?sour...-revision&cd=1

was heralded at youth congress as someone our young ladies would want to pattern their lives after? It wasn't as if I was looking for "dirt" and it wasn't hard to find, a simple search brought this up.

[AGAPE]

I had to be away from the board last night so I missed the play-by-play. Reading the through the thread I got the impression from reports on Tulsa that thare were about 1,000 in attendance and about 80% of that crows was "preachers."

Is that tally correct? Too high, too low? Brother Craft preached but nothing was said about the message. What tone did he take? Anything noteworthy said?

Just trying to catch up here. Thanks.

I posted that Bro Craft was preaching b/c of a text./...
actually he was just speaking
all 7 (if you include Bro Craft) spoke last night....and I'm sure that they all "preached" a lil bit...

1000-1200 is a conservative guess

another stat said 1500 - 1600...

I would be comfortable saying that there was 1000 there last night...

[AGAPE]

Co-Exist is interesting...

for the most part the some of the WD brethern don't allow their kids to participate in district functions...they have their own camps, and last year their own camp meeting...

they don't preach folks who preach for Pastors they consider more liberal....

I think CO-Exist means you can still buy my books, have me preach for you and we can use your name....but fellowship..."well we choose WHO we will fellowship based upon our "Preferred Apostolic" future.....we won't preach folks like Mangun, Haney or Stoneking and any others we deem not "Preferred"....

But there are some up and coming folks we would like to have join our group...

we can co-exist but will only do so at arms length...

There is a reason they aren't slamming the UPC or any other....they can't afford to....

imo....


Lord Bless you my brother...

:running:

[Steve Epley]

The service lasted so late not much was posted I will try to catch today as soon as some relevant new is forthcoming. A friend who is pretty good at numbers said the count would have been closer to about 1200 mostly men.
However the CAF was filled men who did not make it for last night's service but would be there for today. There were some prominent GIB's there so I don't know what that means? With large churches.

[Melody]

No, of course this isn't wrong, and was even spoken to me as being the main reason for the new org.

However, these same folk have long ago stopped allowing their youth to attend youth camps and such, choosing to conduct their own events.

So some things just don't make sense...

I didn't know that, but now maybe communication will be easier. Why send a flyer to churches that don't want to attend, I would want to be on the mailing list. So I can send my children. We have been in hotels with bible quizzers, and I'm not trying to start a debate on what you can or can't sleep in, but rather than confine girls in pajamas, (and in my opinion it is pants) to the hotel room, the chaperones weren't keeping the girls in the rooms, they weren't dressed whether in gowns or pajamas, but they were quiet comfortable walking down to breakfast etc.... I don't want my daughters to question.

[Melody]

What is CAF? Who are GIB's?

[Melody]

I think these men have a group of people that already appreciated their position and ministry, with things as close as they are in the voting constituency, who knows how the tides will turn