Information about the WWPF Mailing List

[OfInterest]

This was a dialogue between myself and whoever answers their email (info@worldwidepf.com) at the WWPF.

I first emailed and asked the following:

"Do you think it is unethical to steal a mailing list from an organization you are planning to leave and use that mailing list to advertise for your new "fellowship"/organization?"


Their reply:

"it was not stolen.
Sincerely,
God Bless You"

My response:

"If that is true, why was my UPCI ministerial ID on it?"


Their 2nd reply:

"The list was bought and paid for from the UPC. They used to give them
away and now they sell them. I helped sponsor a meeting and we used
to get a new one every year.

In case you wondered, there are UPCI mailing lists ALL over this
nation. I know of literally hundreds of ministers that have
them...Sorry.
God Bless You,"

I sent this third reply I sent on the 15th of January. I have not received a reply. (not that I anticipate receiving one):

"If you read the guidelines to using such a list, it states that they are for a one time use and your district superintendent must sign his approval for the use. Did you have district superintendent approval to use this list? Have you used it more than once? Also, was this the first time you has used that list? How many times have you used this same list? Also, UPCI idnumbers are not supposed to be included on out of the building mailings. This is a clear example of unethical behavior unbecoming ministers of the gospel."

I know the UPCI is not perfect. I have plenty of complaints, but organizations/fellowships are made of people and people are not perfect, thus this new fellowship will have plenty of it's own problems. If they were truly starting this organization over the TV resolution, it would make them look pretty silly and inconsistent when most of them have web broadcasts. You cannot legislate every media source. If they have other complaints, they should start talking about them instead of creating new fellowships/organizations.

[rgcraig]

Little testy there, huh?

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

I am certain the person behind the website is in Tulsa.

He did not even have to answer you.

I know a man who mined UPCI email lists and emailed 5 per week for his business. I questioned it since it was my brother-in-law who was his Pastor, I found the answer. UPCI was not secure enough to block out my email from anyone who wanted it (this has been changed). This man did make some sales from the emails he sent out.

I have a paper sack in my office that I file all the junk mail into. I have a shredder for those items I consider personal nature. You can get a grocery sack for free on your next trip to the market. A shredder is $15, or email and I am sure they would gladly take your name off their lists.

:trashcan

[Melody]

Just curious why they would sell a mailing list with the ministers number on it. Shouldn't it be blocked out before it is given away?

Any minister with a ministers directory could make up a mailing list,
up until this point I have seen numerous conferences use a mailing list and there hasn't been a problem or speculation as to the theft of it?

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Just curious why they would sell a mailing list with the ministers number on it. Shouldn't it be blocked out before it is given away?

Any minister with a ministers directory could make up a mailing list,
up until this point I have seen numerous conferences use a mailing list and there hasn't been a problem or speculation as to the theft of it?

I think the answer is in post number one-

Their 2nd reply:

"The list was bought and paid for from the UPC. They used to give them
away and now they sell them. I helped sponsor a meeting and we used
to get a new one every year.

In case you wondered, there are UPCI mailing lists ALL over this
nation. I know of literally hundreds of ministers that have
them...Sorry.
God Bless You,"


Is it ethical for HQ to sell lists to anyone willing to pay for them?!?

[Mr. Steinway]

Just curious why they would sell a mailing list with the ministers number on it. Shouldn't it be blocked out before it is given away?

Any minister with a ministers directory could make up a mailing list,
up until this point I have seen numerous conferences use a mailing list and there hasn't been a problem or speculation as to the theft of it?

I believe the UPCI's good intentions for allowing special conferences the use of their mailing list was taken advantage of! Surely they never expected the list to be used to cause division! I'm sure the UPCI feels violated!

This happened to me not long ago. Thinking we were friends on the same page, I gave confidential information to someone. They used that information and filed a lawsuit against me and others. I felt like a fool for trusting that they had my best intensions in mind!

[Mr. Steinway]

Is it ethical for HQ to sell lists to anyone willing to pay for them?!?

The answer is "YES!!" It is saving the conference (etc.) precious time in typing in all of the information. I'm sure the UPCI expects the customers who purchase their list to abide within ethical guidelines using private information.

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

The answer is "YES!!" It is saving the conference (etc.) precious time in typing in all of the information. I'm sure the UPCI expects the customers who purchase their list to abide within ethical guidelines using private information.

I don't think they really have an Affirmation Statement for mailing lists do you?

You send them $XX (I am thinking in the neighborhood of $200-$250) and you get a list in a plain white envelope. :TulsaTime:

[Mr. Steinway]

I don't think they really have an Affirmation Statement for mailing lists do you?

You send them $XX (I am thinking in the neighborhood of $200-$250) and you get a list in a plain white envelope. :TulsaTime:

I promise you they don't give out their list to just anybody! I would imagine that your intensions would have to be made known.

[OfInterest]

The list had been purchased for another purpose. They re-used the list (a violation) for their own purposes (to from another fellowship/organization) which is unethical on so many levels.

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

The list had been purchased for another purpose. They re-used the list (a violation) for their own purposes (to from another fellowship/organization) which is unethical on so many levels.

Did you ask to be removed?

I get junk all the time from others NOT upc and I simply throw them away. I am gonna find a mailbox smiley to use here.

[Mr. Steinway]

Did you ask to be removed?

I get junk all the time from others NOT upc and I simply throw them away. I am gonna find a mailbox smiley to use here.


Boomm, one can always request to be removed from a mialing list, but that is not the point.

Our business buys mailing lists all of the time. These are public lists for difference household incomes, etc.

However, if we want a private list such as a physicians association or symphony season ticket holders, we must state our intentions. If our intensions are not congruent with their association's purpose and direction, our request will be denied!

[PastorD]

Just reverse the situation. If it were a bunch a liberals that were starting another Org and doing these mailings.....they would flip. It is un-ethical and EVERYONE involved with and posting about it KNOWS it. They just don't want to admit that these good conservative brethren have crossed a line with the mailings. I say again, it is NO different that splitting the church across town.

[George]

Just reverse the situation. If it were a bunch a liberals that were starting another Org and doing these mailings.....they would flip. It is un-ethical and EVERYONE involved with and posting about it KNOWS it. They just don't want to admit that these good conservative brethren have crossed a line with the mailings. I say again, it is NO different that splitting the church across town.

Amen.

[Mr. Steinway]

I wonder if the Tulsa group will reciprocate and give the UPCI their mailing list of new members. After all, one good turn deserves another, right? :)

[stmatthew]

I think it would be good if someone could actually PROVE that the list was purchased prior for other things, and then used again for this.

[stmatthew]

I wonder if the Tulsa group will reciprocate and give the UPCI their mailing list of new members. After all, one good turn deserves another, right? :)

I doubt it. They may sell it back to them though. :D

[Mrs. LPW]

This just bothers me on so many levels (the using of the list, not the thread)

I'm trying my hardest to understand these people.. but I keep coming to the same conclusions.

[pelathais]

I think it would be good if someone could actually PROVE that the list was purchased prior for other things, and then used again for this.
To use the the UPC mailing list you must state the reason, cause or event that you are promoting. How do you imagine J.J. let this one get by?

I can answer that: he didn't. The list was obtained for another purpose and then used for the WwPF mailing.

[stmatthew]

To use the the UPC mailing list you must state the reason, cause or event that you are promoting. How do you imagine J.J. let this one get by?

I can answer that: he didn't. The list was obtained for another purpose and then used for the WwPF mailing.

Is this written somewhere so we can know it is so?

[pelathais]

Is this written somewhere so we can know it is so?
Yes.

You could confirm it yourself by sending a letter to the WEC requesting a copy of the list. In return you receive a questionaire. It's been a few years since I had first hand experience with this, but you could get the form faxed to you - you fill it and sign it and the list arrives DHL (back then); they'll probably email it or give you an ftp address these days.

[Markus]

I wonder if maybe the UPCI felt that they had nothing to worry about so they went ahead an ok'd letting the new org purchase the list.

[pelathais]

I wonder if maybe the UPCI felt that they had nothing to worry about so they went ahead an ok'd letting the new org purchase the list.
That descision would have been made by just a couple of guys. And no, they wouldn't. The General Board would have been all over them for doing so.

Someone earlier had emailed the info at wpf email address and asked about it. The anonymous respondent said that he "helped to organize a conference" and had access to the list through that connection.

It's safe to say that no one contacted WEC and asked for permission to use the UPC minister's mailing list to recruit attendance for the formation meeting of the Worldwide Pentecostal Fellowship in Tulsa.

And yet, the list was used.

[OfInterest]

That is correct. The list was approved for a different purpose. The WWPF organizers had access to it and decided to use for their own purposes. It was not approved for use by the WWPF.

[OfInterest]

Yes. It has been proven.

[missourimary]

Of course, anyone who wants a mailing list for UPCI churches can just go to their online church directory. I know, they got addresses for evangelists and other card carriers too, and they took the easiest route-using an already compiled list, but they could have done a little more work and printed it all off by getting the addresses one at a time from the online church directory. From what I can tell, others were on that list who are not UPCI affiliated. They just took a shortcut with the UPCI list. Should it have happened? No. But did they lie on the questionaire in order to obtain the list, or did they have a list from another meeting that they said, "oh, we have these names already"?