Tulsa Tango

[Dan'D]

In my opinion the propose of the World Wide Pentecostal fellowship is that in years past the difference between standards from one UPC church to another was little. Now the difference is great. Some of the churches like ours have kept to the old ways. Yet we have UPC churches close by that look like they belong to any OTHER type of church, just not UPC, Apostolic Jesus Name. The Bible taught us to be separate. We should not look like every other Tom, Dick and Harry’s Church.

As we all have read “he is the same yesterday, today and forever”.

If we really believe that then why should our standards change?

Are we calling UPC’s minister that have preached for the last 50 years liers.
Standards should not change, If he is the same yesterday, today and forever. There is a reason those old time men of God preached keeping strong standards. They would had not voted that resolution in.

Are we going to fall pray to the evils that has hit every other denomination. No we are different; We have the power of his name on our side.

TV has no place in our homes or churches even as videos.

We have always had good church. But I believe our churches will see the power of God like we have not seen in a long time because we are purifying our churches to be involved in a fellowship of like minded people of god. That is not afraid to stand up for God and the standards he want us to live by. We believe God does not need our help. We with his guidance can reach the lost. We don’t need to worry whether a backslider would recognize our church.

Can you say that or has your church allowed things to creep in that used to be preached against.

God has not changed – have you

Dan’D

[Timmy]

Right on! Standards should never, ever change! Ever! That's why, at my church, we all dress like Adam and Eve. :toofunny

[Fiyahstarter]

And no telephones in the homes. No electric. Nor running water. Nor inside facilities.

[Fiyahstarter]

"Honey, can you press my robe. I have to get to work. The horse and buggy is waiting."

[Ferd]

wow. I gess we all need to understand that TV has no place in the home because Dan'D has said it!

nice.

Carpet has no place in the home!

This I have said. you must all remove your carpet! (rugs are compromise and thus the handiwork of satan)

[Esther]

In my opinion the propose of the World Wide Pentecostal fellowship is that in years past the difference between standards from one UPC church to another was little. Now the difference is great. Some of the churches like ours have kept to the old ways. Yet we have UPC churches close by that look like they belong to any OTHER type of church, just not UPC, Apostolic Jesus Name. The Bible taught us to be separate. We should not look like every other Tom, Dick and Harry’s Church.

As we all have read “he is the same yesterday, today and forever”.

If we really believe that then why should our standards change?

Are we calling UPC’s minister that have preached for the last 50 years liers.
Standards should not change, If he is the same yesterday, today and forever. There is a reason those old time men of God preached keeping strong standards. They would had not voted that resolution in.

Are we going to fall pray to the evils that has hit every other denomination. No we are different; We have the power of his name on our side.

TV has no place in our homes or churches even as videos.

We have always had good church. But I believe our churches will see the power of God like we have not seen in a long time because we are purifying our churches to be involved in a fellowship of like minded people of god. That is not afraid to stand up for God and the standards he want us to live by. We believe God does not need our help. We with his guidance can reach the lost. We don’t need to worry whether a backslider would recognize our church.

Can you say that or has your church allowed things to creep in that used to be preached against.

God has not changed – have you

Dan’D

I hate to bust your bubble here, being that you are new and all, but disagreeing with the old timers teaching does not mean calling them liars.

They had their understanding of the scriptures, and others have theirs. A LOVE for the TRUTH will see the day.

[grace_seeker]

As we all have read “he is the same yesterday, today and forever”.

If we really believe that then why should our standards change?

Are we calling UPC’s minister that have preached for the last 50 years liers.
Standards should not change, If he is the same yesterday, today and forever. There is a reason those old time men of God preached keeping strong standards. They would had not voted that resolution in.

Dan’D

This is a fallacy of logic. God is the same and consistent. Man is not all knowing INCLUDING our respected elders and preachers. Enough said.....it only leads down that dreaded standards argument road.

[LadyRev]

And no telephones in the homes. No electric. Nor running water. Nor inside facilities.

And no deodorant or perfumed soaps or cologne and girls, stop shaving those armpits and legs you sinners you!

By your stench and visible leg hair (for the ladies) you will be assured considerable, if not complete, separation from the world.

[pelathais]

Hey Lady Rev! Haven't seen you for a while. Finished smoking that venison and looking forward to spring yet?

[Whole Hearted]

In my opinion the propose of the World Wide Pentecostal fellowship is that in years past the difference between standards from one UPC church to another was little. Now the difference is great. Some of the churches like ours have kept to the old ways. Yet we have UPC churches close by that look like they belong to any OTHER type of church, just not UPC, Apostolic Jesus Name. The Bible taught us to be separate. We should not look like every other Tom, Dick and Harry’s Church.

As we all have read “he is the same yesterday, today and forever”.

If we really believe that then why should our standards change?

Are we calling UPC’s minister that have preached for the last 50 years liers.
Standards should not change, If he is the same yesterday, today and forever. There is a reason those old time men of God preached keeping strong standards. They would had not voted that resolution in.

Are we going to fall pray to the evils that has hit every other denomination. No we are different; We have the power of his name on our side.

TV has no place in our homes or churches even as videos.

We have always had good church. But I believe our churches will see the power of God like we have not seen in a long time because we are purifying our churches to be involved in a fellowship of like minded people of god. That is not afraid to stand up for God and the standards he want us to live by. We believe God does not need our help. We with his guidance can reach the lost. We don’t need to worry whether a backslider would recognize our church.

Can you say that or has your church allowed things to creep in that used to be preached against.

God has not changed – have you

Dan’D

AAAAMMMMMEEEEENNNNNNNNN

[Rev]

In my opinion the propose of the World Wide Pentecostal fellowship is that in years past the difference between standards from one UPC church to another was little. Now the difference is great. Some of the churches like ours have kept to the old ways. Yet we have UPC churches close by that look like they belong to any OTHER type of church, just not UPC, Apostolic Jesus Name. The Bible taught us to be separate. We should not look like every other Tom, Dick and Harry’s Church.

As we all have read “he is the same yesterday, today and forever”.

If we really believe that then why should our standards change?

Are we calling UPC’s minister that have preached for the last 50 years liers.
Standards should not change, If he is the same yesterday, today and forever. There is a reason those old time men of God preached keeping strong standards. They would had not voted that resolution in.

Are we going to fall pray to the evils that has hit every other denomination. No we are different; We have the power of his name on our side.

TV has no place in our homes or churches even as videos.

We have always had good church. But I believe our churches will see the power of God like we have not seen in a long time because we are purifying our churches to be involved in a fellowship of like minded people of god. That is not afraid to stand up for God and the standards he want us to live by. We believe God does not need our help. We with his guidance can reach the lost. We don’t need to worry whether a backslider would recognize our church.

Can you say that or has your church allowed things to creep in that used to be preached against.

God has not changed – have you

Dan’D

You are 100% right! But you must understand that the line has been drawn in the sand (if you will).

God has a sin sick, polluted body that he can't and won't work through. And he will do what he has always done. He will call out a remanant of those that cry and sigh for the sins of the people (Eze 9:4) and the rest will be cast into darkness.

[Neck]

In my opinion the propose of the World Wide Pentecostal fellowship is that in years past the difference between standards from one UPC church to another was little. Now the difference is great. Some of the churches like ours have kept to the old ways. Yet we have UPC churches close by that look like they belong to any OTHER type of church, just not UPC, Apostolic Jesus Name. The Bible taught us to be separate. We should not look like every other Tom, Dick and Harry’s Church.

As we all have read “he is the same yesterday, today and forever”.

If we really believe that then why should our standards change?

Are we calling UPC’s minister that have preached for the last 50 years liers.
Standards should not change, If he is the same yesterday, today and forever. There is a reason those old time men of God preached keeping strong standards. They would had not voted that resolution in.

Are we going to fall pray to the evils that has hit every other denomination. No we are different; We have the power of his name on our side.

TV has no place in our homes or churches even as videos.

We have always had good church. But I believe our churches will see the power of God like we have not seen in a long time because we are purifying our churches to be involved in a fellowship of like minded people of god. That is not afraid to stand up for God and the standards he want us to live by. We believe God does not need our help. We with his guidance can reach the lost. We don’t need to worry whether a backslider would recognize our church.

Can you say that or has your church allowed things to creep in that used to be preached against.

God has not changed – have you

Dan’D

Get out your robe and saddle up your camel.

Get over your idea that because an organization that you belong to preached hard at every conference standards, standards, standards!!!

They also preached revivial.

Well Revivial never came and the standards kept being preached....

Revivial has moved to the church that is seeking to save the lost.

Not save the saint toa higher saved state.....

Go out and preach on the street corner and when you do, Preach the saving Grace of God and his finished work on Calvary.

His blood was given the saving power of Grace, and that was given by his word before the foundations of the world.

That was the word that became flesh and spilled sinless blood.

You want revival preach Jesus Christ and him crucified.

Your majic hair and no TV will not save a soul, Period....

There simply will not be a no TV or uncut hair section in heaven....

[pelathais]

In my opinion the propose of the World Wide Pentecostal fellowship is that in years past the difference between standards from one UPC church to another was little. Now the difference is great. Some of the churches like ours have kept to the old ways. Yet we have UPC churches close by that look like they belong to any OTHER type of church, just not UPC, Apostolic Jesus Name. The Bible taught us to be separate. We should not look like every other Tom, Dick and Harry’s Church.

As we all have read “he is the same yesterday, today and forever”.

If we really believe that then why should our standards change?

Are we calling UPC’s minister that have preached for the last 50 years liers.
Standards should not change, If he is the same yesterday, today and forever. There is a reason those old time men of God preached keeping strong standards. They would had not voted that resolution in.

Are we going to fall pray to the evils that has hit every other denomination. No we are different; We have the power of his name on our side.

TV has no place in our homes or churches even as videos.

We have always had good church. But I believe our churches will see the power of God like we have not seen in a long time because we are purifying our churches to be involved in a fellowship of like minded people of god. That is not afraid to stand up for God and the standards he want us to live by. We believe God does not need our help. We with his guidance can reach the lost. We don’t need to worry whether a backslider would recognize our church.

Can you say that or has your church allowed things to creep in that used to be preached against.

God has not changed – have you

Dan’D
Indeed, the Almighty never changes - but just look at all the changes we have gone through over the years:

• It used to be a sin to wear the color red.

• Women's stockings had to have a seam in them so that you could tell from a distance that they were not bare legged.

• Women were not allowed to shave under their arms and legs and men were allowed to go unshaved on the face.

• Listening to the radio was "worldly."

• Going to amusement parks was a sin (I still remember that one).

• Only the King James Bible could be used.

• College education was off limits (again, I was told that).

We have to go through a huge list of things to sort out the wheat from the chaff. It's no wonder that some people get lost in all of this, because they were never taught principles; instead they were just given a list of "do's and dont's."

We have needed to let some of the old standards go. Let's be honest, they seem kind of silly today. What we need are principles of godliness that will guide us not a list by which we can compare ourselves against the new converts and the backsliders in the church down the road.

[Neck]

I hate to bust your bubble here, being that you are new and all, but disagreeing with the old timers teaching does not mean calling them liars.

They had their understanding of the scriptures, and others have theirs. A LOVE for the TRUTH will see the day.

They all had pressure from the top to uphold the doctrine of man's manual.

[Neck]

Indeed, the Almighty never changes - but just look at all the changes we have gone through over the years:

• It used to be a sin to wear the color red.

• Women's stockings had to have a seam in them so that you could tell from a distance that they were not bare legged.

• Women were not allowed to shave under their arms and legs and men were allowed to go unshaved on the face.

• Listening to the radio was "worldly."

• Going to amusement parks was a sin (I still remember that one).

• Only the King James Bible could be used.

• College education was off limits (again, I was told that).

We have to go through a huge list of things to sort out the wheat from the chaff. It's no wonder that some people get lost in all of this, because they were never taught principles; instead they were just given a list of "do's and dont's."

We have needed to let some of the old standards go. Let's be honest, they seem kind of silly today. What we need are principles of godliness that will guide us not a list by which we can compare ourselves against the new converts and the backsliders in the church down the road.

You know why the UPCI ministers life insurance is so low and behind the times.

In the 1050's, 60's and 70's it was wrong to have insurance.

When my dad died in 1978 we have been feeling that blow ever since...

[SavedLou]

Indeed, the Almighty never changes - but just look at all the changes we have gone through over the years:

• It used to be a sin to wear the color red.

• Women's stockings had to have a seam in them so that you could tell from a distance that they were not bare legged.

• Women were not allowed to shave under their arms and legs and men were allowed to go unshaved on the face.

• Listening to the radio was "worldly."

• Going to amusement parks was a sin (I still remember that one).

• Only the King James Bible could be used.

• College education was off limits (again, I was told that).

We have to go through a huge list of things to sort out the wheat from the chaff. It's no wonder that some people get lost in all of this, because they were never taught principles; instead they were just given a list of "do's and dont's."

We have needed to let some of the old standards go. Let's be honest, they seem kind of silly today. What we need are principles of godliness that will guide us not a list by which we can compare ourselves against the new converts and the backsliders in the church down the road.

I was just thinking the same things when I read the original post. Also, no coffee or open-toed shoes. I have this same conversation with some dear elders at times. They want to say that if we start to let go of our standards then this will happen or that...and don't get me wrong, i am not saying forget it all, but if you look at our history, we HAVE let go of things over the years. We have already evolved whether people want to admit it or not.

[Dan'D]

Yes, there has always been preachers that have preached strange things. like against red shoes. During that time there were also some who had a little more balance about what they believe. That is not the question!

You look at our people today yes her dress is to the knee, Barely. But it is so form fitting you can see everything and she is leading the music. The envelope has always been pushed but now it is being pushed over the edge.

TV is a new subject. Advertising is just the start. If you ask around to UPC churches you will find a fair amount of them, the saints have TV’s in there homes.

You will find in 10 years the UPC’s standards will go down.

I don’t know about you but I don’t want to take that chance with my children.

You will have some people who will start watching church service on TV for years then they will come to church and then you tell they can not have one in there home.

We have lived this long without it I won’t take a chance.

And once you start videoing your service now you have actors and worshiper that want to do it a certain way because who could be watching . It is not worth it.

Dan’D

[IBCrazier2]

Yes, there has always been preachers that have preached strange things. like against red shoes. During that time there were also some who had a little more balance about what they believe. That is not the question!

You look at our people today yes her dress is to the knee, Barely. But it is so form fitting you can see everything and she is leading the music. The envelope has always been pushed but now it is being pushed over the edge.

TV is a new subject. Advertising is just the start. If you ask around to UPC churches you will find a fair amount of them, the saints have TV’s in there homes.

You will find in 10 years the UPC’s standards will go down.

I don’t know about you but I don’t want to take that chance with my children.

You will have some people who will start watching church service on TV for years then they will come to church and then you tell they can not have one in there home.

We have lived this long without it I won’t take a chance.

And once you start videoing your service now you have actors and worshiper that want to do it a certain way because who could be watching . It is not worth it.

Dan’D

If they would "act" because of video .... most likely they are acting now.

[Pastor G]

In my opinion the propose of the World Wide Pentecostal fellowship is that in years past the difference between standards from one UPC church to another was little. Now the difference is great. Some of the churches like ours have kept to the old ways. Yet we have UPC churches close by that look like they belong to any OTHER type of church, just not UPC, Apostolic Jesus Name. The Bible taught us to be separate. We should not look like every other Tom, Dick and Harry’s Church.


Dan’D

I know some UPC pastors named Tom... I know some UPC pastors named Dick... And I know some UPC pastors named Harry... And I am proud to be like them...

Off to Tulsa with your mentality...

[Ferd]

I LOVE Seperation! I think any apostolic that doesnt if selling themselves short (not a pair of shorts, just short).

I BELIEVE in the doctrine of Sanctification and see this as vital to the salvation of the church collectively and the saint individually.

having a TV, or even worse (evidently) putting a 30 second ad on TV, is NOT a violation of either the doctrine of Sanctification, nor of seperation from the world.

good grief!

[Ferd]

I LOVE Seperation! I think any apostolic that doesnt if selling themselves short (not a pair of shorts, just short).

I BELIEVE in the doctrine of Sanctification and see this as vital to the salvation of the church collectively and the saint individually.

having a TV, or even worse (evidently) putting a 30 second ad on TV, is NOT a violation of either the doctrine of Sanctification, nor of seperation from the world.

good grief!

watching bad stuff on TV is however a violation of both.

[Pastor G]

I LOVE Seperation! I think any apostolic that doesnt if selling themselves short (not a pair of shorts, just short).

I BELIEVE in the doctrine of Sanctification and see this as vital to the salvation of the church collectively and the saint individually.

having a TV, or even worse (evidently) putting a 30 second ad on TV, is NOT a violation of either the doctrine of Sanctification, nor of seperation from the world.

good grief!

Ferd, I think being on TV should be a violation for those so against it... They might embarrass the rest of us if they were on...

And it probably should be a violation for them to have a TV as well, since they obviously couldn't control what they watch, just like the rest of us can't, according to them...

[PastorD]

Yes, there has always been preachers that have preached strange things. like against red shoes. During that time there were also some who had a little more balance about what they believe. That is not the question!

You look at our people today yes her dress is to the knee, Barely. But it is so form fitting you can see everything and she is leading the music. The envelope has always been pushed but now it is being pushed over the edge.

TV is a new subject. Advertising is just the start. If you ask around to UPC churches you will find a fair amount of them, the saints have TV’s in there homes.

You will find in 10 years the UPC’s standards will go down.

I don’t know about you but I don’t want to take that chance with my children.

You will have some people who will start watching church service on TV for years then they will come to church and then you tell they can not have one in there home.

We have lived this long without it I won’t take a chance.

And once you start videoing your service now you have actors and worshiper that want to do it a certain way because who could be watching . It is not worth it.

Dan’D



Just let a man talk (or type) and you will get to the crux of the matter.


:girlytantrum

[dizzyde]

Yes, there has always been preachers that have preached strange things. like against red shoes. During that time there were also some who had a little more balance about what they believe. That is not the question!

You look at our people today yes her dress is to the knee, Barely. But it is so form fitting you can see everything and she is leading the music. The envelope has always been pushed but now it is being pushed over the edge.

TV is a new subject. Advertising is just the start. If you ask around to UPC churches you will find a fair amount of them, the saints have TV’s in there homes.

You will find in 10 years the UPC’s standards will go down.

I don’t know about you but I don’t want to take that chance with my children.

You will have some people who will start watching church service on TV for years then they will come to church and then you tell they can not have one in there home.

We have lived this long without it I won’t take a chance.

And once you start videoing your service now you have actors and worshiper that want to do it a certain way because who could be watching . It is not worth it.

Dan’D

Funny thing, my apostolic great-grandparents had TV when they were alive. There is a stronger stance against TV in the UPC church that I attend than there was 40 years ago. So your gloom and doom sermonizing make me chuckle.

Also, we have been videoing our services for years, and none of the people on the platform are even conscious of it. I can guarantee that, because I have had many of them come into the church office while I was reviewing a service, and heard them groan when they remember that they are on video. You do realize there are ways of videoing services that do not involve having a camera right in your face?

Things will change in the next ten years? Sure, that that is inevitable, time changes things. Will the Gospel, and the Truth change? No. BTW, I have pictures of my apostolic mother as a teenager with her skirts barely covering her knees. She wasn't "loose", her father was a very conservative evangelist. You just have led an apparently extremely sheltered and uninformed life.

Oh and, one of your heroes in the Tulsa 6 videotapes his church services.

[Pastor G]

I have never seen everything in a form fitting dress to the knees... How does that work?

[PastorD]

AAAAMMMMMEEEEENNNNNNNNN

WH....will you please notify me when you turn your card in? There's going to be a party!

:happydance

[revrandy]

Yes, there has always been preachers that have preached strange things. like against red shoes. During that time there were also some who had a little more balance about what they believe. That is not the question!

You look at our people today yes her dress is to the knee, Barely. But it is so form fitting you can see everything and she is leading the music. The envelope has always been pushed but now it is being pushed over the edge.

TV is a new subject. Advertising is just the start. If you ask around to UPC churches you will find a fair amount of them, the saints have TV’s in there homes.

You will find in 10 years the UPC’s standards will go down.

I don’t know about you but I don’t want to take that chance with my children.

You will have some people who will start watching church service on TV for years then they will come to church and then you tell they can not have one in there home.

We have lived this long without it I won’t take a chance.

And once you start videoing your service now you have actors and worshiper that want to do it a certain way because who could be watching . It is not worth it.

Dan’D

I asked someone about that recently because most of the dress I've seen in the Bible School yearbooks from my parents...the dresses were above the knee....then they came out with dresses to the Floor and was told that preachers preached against those to...I forget the name they called them...

Brother...Keep your eye's on the LORD...... :)

Concerning the Actor's and dancing Do you mean like this??

X5xvecTgqb0

[Pastor G]

WH....will you please notify me when you turn your card in? There's going to be a party!

:happydance
:toofunny

[Hesetmefree238]

Dan, I love holiness. I love seperation. I love righteousness and purity. However, all
change isn't bad. In fact, how many saints do you see walking around in the clothing
styles of the 1st Century. Those whom we call oldtimers, even they didn't dress the same
as those of the Apostolic Church of the 1st Century. Clothing styles change, Cultures change,
Methods change, but the principles never change and apply to every generation.
The men who have promoted the idea of advertising on television aren't tearing down
any doctrine of the Word of God, nor are they tearing down any principle of holiness.
In fact these men love the message of Acts 2:38, and the message of Biblical holiness
so much that they want to get it out of the 4 walls of the church and into the living rooms of
the people.

[Dan'D]

Your humor or your attempt to humor say a lot about your inability to have a serious conversation about something that effects someone’s spirituality.

I enjoy having good conversation with someone where we can both learn from it but were not 6 years old and at recess.

Dan’D

[Dan'D]

My remarks were directed toward Pastor G

Dan'D

[revrandy]

We have always had good church. But I believe our churches will see the power of God like we have not seen in a long time because we are purifying our churches to be involved in a fellowship of like minded people of god. That is not afraid to stand up for God and the standards he want us to live by. We believe God does not need our help. We with his guidance can reach the lost. We don’t need to worry whether a backslider would recognize our church.

Can you say that or has your church allowed things to creep in that used to be preached against.

God has not changed – have you

Dan’D

How then can you join the WPF if you are against video??

They are very pro-video??

[revrandy]

How then can you join the WPF if you are against video??

They are very pro-video??

Bump**** For Dan'd...

[SecretWarrior]

A Rock Church Production...

y0IpA0dWnC8&feature=related

[Dan'D]

This was my own feeling. But I do think some video there services for historical reasons not to put them on TV.

I am not a minister I am just giving how I feel. My father, brothers and uncles are UPC Pastors.

Dan’d

[PastorD]

Dandy.....I do have a question?

You post as if you know some of the "6" personally and if not, you seem to be aware of their intentions with this and other threads you have started or posted in.

Are you aware that they are saying the two bodies will co-exist? That we will even work together?

How do you suppose that will happen when you/they are so convinced we so far off track?

[Dan'D]

I feel there is a difference if it is going to be used for TV purpose.

Dan'D

[revrandy]

I feel there is a difference if it is going to be used for TV purpose.

Dan'D

What difference would it make...if it were reaching the lost??

Are those that watch TV any less important to the Kingdom than those who are online??

[Dan'D]

Yes I'm aware that the two bodies will co-exist I would expect that. I’m hopping that would be allowed buy both groups. We are all on the same team. We just have a difference of opinion. These conversation are healthy for the body. I have met some of these men I am not aware of their intentions this is my personal feeling and I don’t mean to give the feeling that know anything other than what is on there Web site

Dan’D

[Pastor G]

Your humor or your attempt to humor say a lot about your inability to have a serious conversation about something that effects someone’s spirituality.

I enjoy having good conversation with someone where we can both learn from it but were not 6 years old and at recess.

Dan’D

Sorry DanD, perhaps I am very spiritually mature for my six year old frame, but advertising TV, video and dresses to the knee on music directors do not affect my spirituality...
I am a pastor who has advertised on TV with great success, and I am still in fellowship with God with a growing church.
I have watched a couple of videos in my life and I am still in fellowship with God...
I have even seen dresses to the knee even on my mother in the 70's, and with a choker to boot, and I am still here... Nope, not spiritually affected by that either...

[Dan'D]

After someone has watch a church program on TV for who know how long and then come to a church service.

How do we explain that there TV must go. Or do we just allow them to have one.

Dan’D

[Pastor G]

After someone has watch a church program on TV for who know how long and then come to a church service.

How do we explain that there TV must go. Or do we just allow them to have one.

Dan’D

For a pastor to think he can allow or not allow someone to have a TV is very presumptuous... Most here will tell you that they preach against the evils of TV, not TV itself...

[IBCrazier2]

Concerning the Actor's and dancing Do you mean like this??





you are a bad bad boy:stirpot









:toofunny

[Dan'D]

I disagree

Do you tell your kids how having sex before marriage can mess up your life and that is it.

Or do you tell the it can mess up your life and don’t do it.

Dan'D

[Pastor G]

I disagree

Do you tell your kids how having sex before marriage can mess up your life and that is it.

Or do you tell the it can mess up your life and don’t do it.

Dan'D

I can never tell what you don't agree with, because you don't ever copy the post you are referring to...

But in the event you are referring to mine, there is something totally wrong somewhere for you to couple advertising on TV or preaching against the evils of TV to sex before marriage...

[Dan'D]

I'm sorry as you can see I'm new at this. Bear with me.
Your quote:
For a pastor to think he can allow or not allow someone to have a TV is very presumptuous... Most here will tell you that they preach against the evils of TV, not TV itself...

What I’m saying is that you said you do not preach against TV just the evils of it.

Do you preach against sex before marriage or just the evils of it.

Dan’D

[pelathais]

I'm sorry as you can see I'm new at this. Bear with me.
Your quote:
For a pastor to think he can allow or not allow someone to have a TV is very presumptuous... Most here will tell you that they preach against the evils of TV, not TV itself...

What I’m saying is that you said you do not preach against TV just the evils of it.

Do you preach against sex before marriage or just the evils of it.

Dan’D
The act that you describe at the end is "the evil of it."

Watching a televised class from your community college, a science documentary or a news report that you can't see anywhere else but on television is not "evil." In my home you would have to call a 1-800 number and impersonate me to gain access to the "evils" on television.

[Pastor G]

I'm sorry as you can see I'm new at this. Bear with me.
Your quote:
For a pastor to think he can allow or not allow someone to have a TV is very presumptuous... Most here will tell you that they preach against the evils of TV, not TV itself...

What I’m saying is that you said you do not preach against TV just the evils of it.

Do you preach against sex before marriage or just the evils of it.

Dan’D

Is there a part of sex before marriage that isn't evil?

Your analogy of sex before marriage to TV... Would be to get rid of your fiance until your wedding day so you won't have sex before then...

I trust our people not to watch anything bad on TV because I know what I have taught them and how they have responded... I trust in their integrity...

Also, I trust my daughter not to have sex before marriage because of what I have taught her and how she has responded... I trust her integrity...

You have to trust what you put into people sometime....

[stmatthew]

Dan'd,

At the bottom right of each post is a "quote" button. If you click it on the post you are addressing, it will automatically add that post in a quote to your post.

[pelathais]

After someone has watch a church program on TV for who know how long and then come to a church service.

How do we explain that there TV must go. Or do we just allow them to have one.

Dan’D
I'm concerned about the mentality of "do we just allow them to have one."

When we convert someone to the saving Gospel of Jesus Christ and they follow the NT pattern of response as outlined in Acts 2:38, do we think that we now "own" these people?

They are free human beings who deserve every bit of respect and deferential treatment that any other human being deserves. Only if I knew someone very closely would I dare to comment upon the furnishings of their home. With very close friends and family members we might even joke around. But with someone who has newly come to faith in a church where I attend I will act with all respect.

What they choose to do with their lives is not because of something I have "allowed." Whatever happened to freedom and individual rights?

[Dan'D]

The act that you describe at the end is "the evil of it."

Watching a televised class from your community college, a science documentary or a news report that you can't see anywhere else but on television is not "evil." In my home you would have to call a 1-800 number and impersonate me to gain access to the "evils" on television.

If your are UPC preacher does not the UPC manual speak against ministers having a TV in there home and you would had sign an agreement to that fact.

If you are not a UPC preacher then you have no dog in this fight.

If that is the case, why not.

Or you are not a pastor.

Dan'D

[stmatthew]

If your are UPC preacher does not the UPC manual speak against ministers having a TV in there home and you would had sign an agreement to that fact.

If you are not a UPC preacher then you have no dog in this fight.

If that is the case, why not.

Or you are not a pastor.

Dan'D

The ministers manual gives provision for the minister to have video in his home, and defines what is allowable only as "wholesome entertainment".

[TrmptPraise]

If your are UPC preacher does not the UPC manual speak against ministers having a TV in there home and you would had sign an agreement to that fact.

If you are not a UPC preacher then you have no dog in this fight.

If that is the case, why not.

Or you are not a pastor.

Dan'D

I love this. Now we have to be licensed by the "evil empire" in order to be intellectually competent to discuss the issue.

You don't have to be a UPC preacher (current or otherwise) to have a stance, have a right to an opinion, or to be able to logically converse about an issue as it relates to UPC reform. *Did I type reform out loud?:hmmm

[jrLA]

Is there a part of sex before marriage that isn't evil?

Your analogy of sex before marriage to TV... Would be to get rid of your fiance until your wedding day so you won't have sex before then...

I trust our people not to watch anything bad on TV because I know what I have taught them and how they have responded... I trust in their integrity...

Also, I trust my daughter not to have sex before marriage because of what I have taught her and how she has responded... I trust her integrity...

You have to trust what you put into people sometime....

This is a very good post! The ministry is not the Gospel Police. They are called to deliver the word, to be the messenger! The people have to live it! The ministry can't possibly police what the saints are doing. We simply must trust them to be doers and not hearers only!

[Rev]

The act that you describe at the end is "the evil of it."

Watching a televised class from your community college, a science documentary or a news report that you can't see anywhere else but on television is not "evil." In my home you would have to call a 1-800 number and impersonate me to gain access to the "evils" on television.

That's something that you can do that. But TV is just like many other things. For most people if the TV is there they will watch any and everything. They will also spend so much time watching the thing they will not pray.

I don't mind someone having a TV,: just as long as they can't turn it on. :toofunny

[revrandy]

Short Skirts and Sex....:hmmm.....

[TrmptPraise]

That's something that you can do that. But TV is just like many other things. For most people if the TV is there they will watch any and everything. They will also spend so much time watching the thing they will not pray.

I don't mind someone having a TV,: just as long as they can't turn it on. :toofunny


Please take no offense, Rev. No doubt there are some things that can be addictive in one form or another, but I believe you underestimate the average saint in his ability to weed out the things that are unsuitable.

Does the bridge, spades or hearts player have to throw the cards out in fear that a poker game with break out?

[Hoovie]

Please take no offense, Rev. No doubt there are some things that can be addictive in one form or another, but I believe you underestimate the average saint in his ability to weed out the things that are unsuitable.

Does the bridge, spades or hearts player have to throw the cards out in fear that a poker game with break out?

Some do still think this.

[Rev]

Please take no offense, Rev. No doubt there are some things that can be addictive in one form or another, but I believe you underestimate the average saint in his ability to weed out the things that are unsuitable.

Does the bridge, spades or hearts player have to throw the cards out in fear that a poker game with break out?

In some homes yes.

It's like booze. I could keep a bottle in my home and never touch it. Some would be drunk in an hour.

You don't serve real wine at communion because of those that can't handle booze. One drink is all it would take.

The same is true for TV. Some could handle it, most could not.

(I Co 8:9) But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.
(I Co 8:10) For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol’s temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;
(I Co 8:11) And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?
(I Co 8:12) But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.

[pelathais]

Does the bridge, spades or hearts player have to throw the cards out in fear that a poker game with break out?
In some homes yes.

It's like booze. I could keep a bottle in my home and never touch it. Some would be drunk in an hour.

You don't serve real wine at communion because of those that can't handle booze. One drink is all it would take.

The same is true for TV. Some could handle it, most could not.

(I Co 8:9) But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.
(I Co 8:10) For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol’s temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;
(I Co 8:11) And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?
(I Co 8:12) But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.[/quote]
Sadly Rev, you describe a condition of such weakness that I would question whether or not the power of God exists there at all, not to mention just plain common sense.

I've always hoped that my faith in God might give me some sense of a higher purpose and meaning in life. You know, something that would stir my heart when the weariness, pain and toils of life really bear down upon my soul.

Instead, you appear to offer a faith filled with a bunch of nagging old nannies who want to "inspect" everyone's home and life. Makes it kind of hard for me to envision the human condition as anything more than a bunch of snarling beasts.

[Rev]

[quote=Rev;374588]
Sadly Rev, you describe a condition of such weakness that I would question whether or not the power of God exists there at all, not to mention just plain common sense.

I've always hoped that my faith in God might give me some sense of a higher purpose and meaning in life. You know, something that would stir my heart when the weariness, pain and toils of life really bear down upon my soul.

Instead, you appear to offer a faith filled with a bunch of nagging old nannies who want to "inspect" everyone's home and life. Makes it kind of hard for me to envision the human condition as anything more than a bunch of snarling beasts.

Paul must have been seeing the very things that you write about. That's the reason he put them in the book.

[pelathais]

Paul must have been seeing the very things that you write about. That's the reason he put them in the book.
I'm afraid I can't find the passage where Paul said anything about:

Playing bridge, spades or hearts leading a weaker brother into the snare of a "poker game."

Keeping or not keeping alcohol around the house. And it is an historical fact that fresh fruit was never successfully preserved until the 1790's. So some how the good Christians in Paul's time had to figure out some way to control their rampaging lust for drunkeness every single time they had a communion service.

And nothing in Paul's writings that tell me any reason why a television is inherently "evil" and a computer with an Internet connection is "better." In fact, very little guidance on electronics at all.

[Rev]

I'm afraid I can't find the passage where Paul said anything about:

Playing bridge, spades or hearts leading a weaker brother into the snare of a "poker game."

Keeping or not keeping alcohol around the house. And it is an historical fact that fresh fruit was never successfully preserved until the 1790's. So some how the good Christians in Paul's time had to figure out some way to control their rampaging lust for drunkeness every single time they had a communion service.

And nothing in Paul's writings that tell me any reason why a television is inherently "evil" and a computer with an Internet connection is "better." In fact, very little guidance on electronics at all.

Some how you always manage to miss the point! Don't you! But yours is the only one that is important. Right?

[pelathais]

Some how you always manage to miss the point! Don't you! But yours is the only one that is important. Right?
I guess I need your help here. What was your point?

[TrmptPraise]

Paul must have been seeing the very things that you write about. That's the reason he put them in the book.

(I Co 8:9) But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.
(I Co 8:10) For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol’s temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;
(I Co 8:11) And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?
(I Co 8:12) But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.

1 Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Paul also let us know that we always have a way to escape temptation. Paul never wrote to my knowledge, that God's power is so weak in the saint, that they are useless in the fight against temptation. I am sorry to say that is the message you are conveying in this thread. That somehow if everyone had a television in their home, no matter their spiritual level, all would fail. All would use it unwisely. All would watch the ungodly. When are we going to realize that the message is not about the weakness of the human condition (however we may perceive it), but rather the message is about the Power of the Holy Ghost.

Also the scripture's you use for this pertains to the stumbling blocks of another. As we are not to be a facilitator to one's failure. I am not sure how that pertains to one's personal strength in the Lord or one's inability to make sound decisions on his own behalf through Christ's direction and leading.

[Praxeas]

That's something that you can do that. But TV is just like many other things. For most people if the TV is there they will watch any and everything. They will also spend so much time watching the thing they will not pray.

I don't mind someone having a TV,: just as long as they can't turn it on. :toofunny
For most people if the internet is there they will watch anything and everything...from kiddie porn to beastiality. They will also spend so much time on the Internet that they will not pray. I don't mind a weak Christian having the Internet.....well...nuff said

[Fiyahstarter]

Some how you always manage to miss the point! Don't you! But yours is the only one that is important. Right?

Typical lash out response when backed in a corner.

Again, what is your attempted point? That you want to control everyone's life to make sure they stay "saved" by your definition?

[Fiyahstarter]

Hey Lady Rev! Haven't seen you for a while. Finished smoking that venison and looking forward to spring yet?

Smoking venison??? Is that legal? LOL!!

[Usher45]

The issue isn't TV, video, or smoking venison...it's about seperation from the world. The TV and internet has been debated by better men than me, and probably always will be. The issue is how close to the world can you live, and still enter into Heaven. As for me and my house, we will not have TV. That's my choice. I need to stay away from the world as much as possible. Our elders decided that Hollywood entertainment was too worldly back then...and that was their man-made decision. We stuck with it. Now our leaders have decided that advertising on TV is ok. That, too, is their man-made decision. We either agree or disagree with the decision. But that doesn't mean that it's mandatory to own a TV. The Heaven/hell issues are in black and white (sometimes red-letters) in the bible, and I dare to mention rebellion, the 10 commandments, hair length, men and women wearing one anothers apparel, etc...but TV is not mentioned. So we can carry on and fuss forever and ever amen, and still not reach a conclusion... :stirpot

[Subdued]

Separation from the world can be summed up here:

Galatians 5:19-26 (King James Version)



19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

(^ The World - avoid the above)

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

(^ The Church - do/be these things)

[Pressing-On]

Separation from the world can be summed up here:

Galatians 5:19-26 (King James Version)



19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

(^ The World - avoid the above)

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

(^ The Church - do/be these things)
Amen, good post!