Tulsa 6

[Dan'D]

You must remember UPC left the Tulsa 6, not the other way around. Think about all the changes that have gone on in the UPC over the last 10 - 15 years if it had happen all at one time every person at that church would leave. But because it has happen over a period of time we don't think about it.

The Bible and what God expect from us has not changed but churches have changed.

The Tulse 6 has a great following and there belief is grounded in the Bible. Over the period of time a lot of you will be eating your own words.

The UPC is not meant to be the spiritual leaders of the churches as much as organizational leaders. Each Pastor must lead his own church. Bro Haney will not answer to god about the church I attend. My pastor will answer to God regarding the church I attend. This is how it was meant to be. This is bible God chose my pastor to lead my church. Bro Haney was voted in. The resolution was voted in. Each pastor has the obligation to determined what is right for his church. He must answer to God for that.

I have spoke with many of saint that say a good percentage of the people in there church have a TV in there home. The reason is the Pastor has not felt that is was that important. AS well as other standards. The UPC has changed and it would take a blind person not to see that.

So again I say ”the UPC left us.”

Dan’D

[RevBuddy]

Dan'D...please go to my "Paradise Lost??" thread and tell me what has happened to the UPCI and other oneness organizations...

Thanks.

[TrmptPraise]

Dan'D...please go to my "Paradise Lost??" thread and tell me what has happened to the UPCI and other oneness organizations...

Thanks.


Or even my thread "Are We Missing the Little Picture?" :bliss

[stmatthew]

You must remember UPC left the Tulsa 6, not the other way around. Think about all the changes that have gone on in the UPC over the last 10 - 15 years if it had happen all at one time every person at that church would leave. But because it has happen over a period of time we don't think about it.

The Bible and what God expect from us has not changed but churches have changed.

The Tulse 6 has a great following and there belief is grounded in the Bible. Over the period of time a lot of you will be eating your own words.

The UPC is not meant to be the spiritual leaders of the churches as much as organizational leaders. Each Pastor must lead his own church. Bro Haney will not answer to god about the church I attend. My pastor will answer to God regarding the church I attend. This is how it was meant to be. This is bible God chose my pastor to lead my church. Bro Haney was voted in. The resolution was voted in. Each pastor has the obligation to determined what is right for his church. He must answer to God for that.

I have spoke with many of saint that say a good percentage of the people in there church have a TV in there home. The reason is the Pastor has not felt that is was that important. AS well as other standards. The UPC has changed and it would take a blind person not to see that.

So again I say ”the UPC left us.”

Dan’D

I tend to disagree with the statement that "the UPC has left the Tulsa 6".

[Timmy]

Or even my thread "Are We Missing the Little Picture?" :bliss

Dan'D should post in the "What's for Dinner Tonight" thread. I'd like to know what the never-changed standards for food are! :lol

[Pastor G]

You must remember UPC left the Tulsa 6, not the other way around. Think about all the changes that have gone on in the UPC over the last 10 - 15 years if it had happen all at one time every person at that church would leave. But because it has happen over a period of time we don't think about it.

The Bible and what God expect from us has not changed but churches have changed.

The Tulse 6 has a great following and there belief is grounded in the Bible. Over the period of time a lot of you will be eating your own words.

The UPC is not meant to be the spiritual leaders of the churches as much as organizational leaders. Each Pastor must lead his own church. Bro Haney will not answer to god about the church I attend. My pastor will answer to God regarding the church I attend. This is how it was meant to be. This is bible God chose my pastor to lead my church. Bro Haney was voted in. The resolution was voted in. Each pastor has the obligation to determined what is right for his church. He must answer to God for that.

I have spoke with many of saint that say a good percentage of the people in there church have a TV in there home. The reason is the Pastor has not felt that is was that important. AS well as other standards. The UPC has changed and it would take a blind person not to see that.

So again I say ”the UPC left us.”

Dan’D

SO which one of the Tulsa 6 are you? I don't remember any of their names being Dan D..

[Apprehended]

I tend to disagree with the statement that "the UPC has left the Tulsa 6".

That's right.

The idea that the UPC left the T6 is silly.

If it is truly the case, then why were the T6 so derelic and neglectful in preaching the Word of God? Why did they let the UPC depart, if indeed that is what they did? The Word of God WILL accomplish that wherein it was sent. It (the Word) will not return VOID.

So, if they claim that they have been preaching it all along the past 10 to 20 years, why wasn't the Word of God any more powerful than to let them depart? Could it be that what they have been preaching, if they have been preaching, IS NOT the Word of God after all, but some illusion of the mind that has no power, no affect, not quick, not sharp but only a dead seed that only rots in the ground having no life in it at all.

I am totally convinced that the preaching of the Word will return results. It will either lead men to repentance, or it will cost the heads of the Prophet that proclaim it. Sometimes both are the end results. BUT PREACH THE WORD. Let the seed fall into the ground. Don't just walk away calling the rest of us "backslid."

[pelathais]

You must remember UPC left the Tulsa 6, not the other way around. Think about all the changes that have gone on in the UPC over the last 10 - 15 years if it had happen all at one time every person at that church would leave. But because it has happen over a period of time we don't think about it.

The Bible and what God expect from us has not changed but churches have changed.

The Tulse 6 has a great following and there belief is grounded in the Bible. Over the period of time a lot of you will be eating your own words.

The UPC is not meant to be the spiritual leaders of the churches as much as organizational leaders. Each Pastor must lead his own church. Bro Haney will not answer to god about the church I attend. My pastor will answer to God regarding the church I attend. This is how it was meant to be. This is bible God chose my pastor to lead my church. Bro Haney was voted in. The resolution was voted in. Each pastor has the obligation to determined what is right for his church. He must answer to God for that.

I have spoke with many of saint that say a good percentage of the people in there church have a TV in there home. The reason is the Pastor has not felt that is was that important. AS well as other standards. The UPC has changed and it would take a blind person not to see that.

So again I say ”the UPC left us.”

Dan’D
I think I know how you can see it from that perspective. But to really understand the thousands of churches and ministers across the board you really need to look more closely at the history of the UPC.

That history reflects a movement away from many of the original positions held by the majority of men in the org and even in the pre-UPC Oneness Movement. Most "conservatives" (I know, the labels are uncomfortable and ill fitting but that's the best we've got right now) will say that there has been "progress" in the movement as such teachings as "The Light Doctrine" were silenced for a more stern "Water & Spirit" position. The changes were made in the editing of the Required Reading Material for UPC ministers in the 1990's.

The very fact that this "progress" was being made shows that the UPC was changing all the time. Many people were uncomfortable with the changes and we lost quite a few of them in 1992. Those men hadn't changed at all. The UPC had changed and forced them out. The UPC "left them."

And now there has been something of a backlash against that "progress" and change as exlemplified in the recent Resolution #4 debate. Resolution #4 at Tampa, in fact undid a change in our by-laws and halted some of the "progress" that the so-called "conservatives" had been implementing for years.

There was a huge movement of change within the UPC to "straighten up the ship." These changes are documented over the years in the changes in the Fundamental Doctrine and the Articles of Faith. Now the majority has resisted further change and even undid one change. This isn't the "UPC changing." It represents a movement of moderation and one where many are seeking to "get back to our roots."

Given the standard use of the terms "Conservative (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/conservative)" and "Liberal (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/liberal)," by passing Resolution #4, the UPC has made a truly "conservative" turn for the first time in a long time. In some people's eyes, this vote stopped the "progress" that they had been making within the org. Understandably, they are concerned about that. But I don't think it's accurate to say that the "UPC left" them. The only ones who were really abandoned over the years were those who were forced out in 1992 - and ironically, perhaps those who left with the AMF.

[Ron Turner]

This post is a joke.

[stmatthew]

This post is a joke.

Fill us in with which post, and why you feel that it is a joke.

[dizzyde]

You must remember UPC left the Tulsa 6, not the other way around. Think about all the changes that have gone on in the UPC over the last 10 - 15 years if it had happen all at one time every person at that church would leave. But because it has happen over a period of time we don't think about it.

The Bible and what God expect from us has not changed but churches have changed.

The Tulse 6 has a great following and there belief is grounded in the Bible. Over the period of time a lot of you will be eating your own words.

The UPC is not meant to be the spiritual leaders of the churches as much as organizational leaders. Each Pastor must lead his own church. Bro Haney will not answer to god about the church I attend. My pastor will answer to God regarding the church I attend. This is how it was meant to be. This is bible God chose my pastor to lead my church. Bro Haney was voted in. The resolution was voted in. Each pastor has the obligation to determined what is right for his church. He must answer to God for that.

I have spoke with many of saint that say a good percentage of the people in there church have a TV in there home. The reason is the Pastor has not felt that is was that important. AS well as other standards. The UPC has changed and it would take a blind person not to see that.

So again I say ”the UPC left us.”
Dan’D

I guess my question is, if this is true, why was one of the "Tulsa 6" willing to allow his name to stand for prominent leadership within the UPC last year.

Are you saying to me that if he had been elected, that he would still have left the UPC after res.4?

[pelathais]

:chirp:chirp:chirp

Hey Dandy! Hit 'n Run is no fair! Come back and play!

[Dan'D]

This is all just my opinion:

Yes, I believe he would had left anyway. This is just my opinion.

For a number of years there has been a number of ministers that have been doing there best to keep the movement’s standards. All anyone must do is look at some of our large meeting and look around.

It is good to keep with the times but that don’t mean let down our standards. That is what has been happing. I have children and it got to the point I could not let my children mix with certain churches. We did not have that problem years ago at least not to this point.

I believe it just got to a point that a line in the sand was drawn. A man must keep to his convictions. When we just go with the flow that is the direction dead fish go.

I feel with all my heart what is being done is for the good of our church. Every person without throwing mud must come to a point and say enough is enough. I believe that is what this new movement is all about. Each and every pastor that has chosen to go with the World Wide Pentecostal Fellowship had to come to that point for there own salvation sake. I know they felt if they chose not to go with there convictions that they will answer to god for there indecisiveness.

The world if full of sissified men. We need men who are not afraid to stand up and be counted.

Dan’D

[Dan'D]

This is all just my opinion:

Yes, I believe he would had left anyway. This is just my opinion.

For a number of years there has been a number of ministers that have been doing there best to keep the movement’s standards. All anyone must do is look at some of our large meeting and look around.

It is good to keep with the times but that don’t mean let down our standards. That is what has been happing. I have children and it got to the point I could not let my children mix with certain churches. We did not have that problem years ago at least not to this point.

I believe it just got to a point that a line in the sand was drawn. A man must keep to his convictions. When we just go with the flow that is the direction dead fish go.

I feel with all my heart what is being done is for the good of our church. Every person without throwing mud must come to a point and say enough is enough. I believe that is what this new movement is all about. Each and every pastor that has chosen to go with the World Wide Pentecostal Fellowship had to come to that point for there own salvation sake. I know they felt if they chose not to go with there convictions that they will answer to god for there indecisiveness.

The world if full of sissified men. We need men who are not afraid to stand up and be counted.

Dan’D

[Whole Hearted]

You must remember UPC left the Tulsa 6, not the other way around. Think about all the changes that have gone on in the UPC over the last 10 - 15 years if it had happen all at one time every person at that church would leave. But because it has happen over a period of time we don't think about it.

The Bible and what God expect from us has not changed but churches have changed.

The Tulse 6 has a great following and there belief is grounded in the Bible. Over the period of time a lot of you will be eating your own words.

The UPC is not meant to be the spiritual leaders of the churches as much as organizational leaders. Each Pastor must lead his own church. Bro Haney will not answer to god about the church I attend. My pastor will answer to God regarding the church I attend. This is how it was meant to be. This is bible God chose my pastor to lead my church. Bro Haney was voted in. The resolution was voted in. Each pastor has the obligation to determined what is right for his church. He must answer to God for that.

I have spoke with many of saint that say a good percentage of the people in there church have a TV in there home. The reason is the Pastor has not felt that is was that important. AS well as other standards. The UPC has changed and it would take a blind person not to see that.

So again I say ”the UPC left us.”

Dan’D


I agree

[grace_seeker]

You must remember UPC left the Tulsa 6, not the other way around. Think about all the changes that have gone on in the UPC over the last 10 - 15 years if it had happen all at one time every person at that church would leave. But because it has happen over a period of time we don't think about it.

The Bible and what God expect from us has not changed but churches have changed.

The Tulse 6 has a great following and there belief is grounded in the Bible. Over the period of time a lot of you will be eating your own words.

The UPC is not meant to be the spiritual leaders of the churches as much as organizational leaders. Each Pastor must lead his own church. Bro Haney will not answer to god about the church I attend. My pastor will answer to God regarding the church I attend. This is how it was meant to be. This is bible God chose my pastor to lead my church. Bro Haney was voted in. The resolution was voted in. Each pastor has the obligation to determined what is right for his church. He must answer to God for that.

I have spoke with many of saint that say a good percentage of the people in there church have a TV in there home. The reason is the Pastor has not felt that is was that important. AS well as other standards. The UPC has changed and it would take a blind person not to see that.

So again I say ”the UPC left us.”

Dan’D

I would only agree with your statement if the following happened: The UPC disaffiliated itself with the Tulsa 6 by requesting back their licences. Did that happen? If not, then I disagree.

[pelathais]

This is all just my opinion:

Yes, I believe he would had left anyway. This is just my opinion.

For a number of years there has been a number of ministers that have been doing there best to keep the movement’s standards. All anyone must do is look at some of our large meeting and look around.

It is good to keep with the times but that don’t mean let down our standards. That is what has been happing. I have children and it got to the point I could not let my children mix with certain churches. We did not have that problem years ago at least not to this point.

I believe it just got to a point that a line in the sand was drawn. A man must keep to his convictions. When we just go with the flow that is the direction dead fish go.

I feel with all my heart what is being done is for the good of our church. Every person without throwing mud must come to a point and say enough is enough. I believe that is what this new movement is all about. Each and every pastor that has chosen to go with the World Wide Pentecostal Fellowship had to come to that point for there own salvation sake. I know they felt if they chose not to go with there convictions that they will answer to god for there indecisiveness.

The world if full of sissified men. We need men who are not afraid to stand up and be counted.

Dan’D
My heart really does leap when you call for "men who are not afraid to stand up and be counted." But what do you think about those men who we've left behind with all of the changes to the UPC that I mentioned earlier?

From where I stand, the "changes" have all been instigated by those who have called themselves "conservative." They are the ones who have been forcing men out for years - all in the name of "Progress." Now, when the org, for the first time really, stands up against the changes they all cry "foul" and want to leave.

Why couldn't we have kept the original Articles of Faith and Fundamental Doctrine that we had at the time of the merger? Why do you support such massive change in the org?

[Mr. Steinway]

Why couldn't we have kept the original Articles of Faith and Fundamental Doctrine that we had at the time of the merger? Why do you support such massive change in the org?

You are correct that the nearly all of the "changes" since the original AOF in 1945 have been pushed by the conservatives. The UPCI changed into a more conservative organization over the years.

[dizzyde]

This is all just my opinion:

Yes, I believe he would had left anyway. This is just my opinion.

For a number of years there has been a number of ministers that have been doing there best to keep the movement’s standards. All anyone must do is look at some of our large meeting and look around.

It is good to keep with the times but that don’t mean let down our standards. That is what has been happing. I have children and it got to the point I could not let my children mix with certain churches. We did not have that problem years ago at least not to this point.

I believe it just got to a point that a line in the sand was drawn. A man must keep to his convictions. When we just go with the flow that is the direction dead fish go.

I feel with all my heart what is being done is for the good of our church. Every person without throwing mud must come to a point and say enough is enough. I believe that is what this new movement is all about. Each and every pastor that has chosen to go with the World Wide Pentecostal Fellowship had to come to that point for there own salvation sake. I know they felt if they chose not to go with there convictions that they will answer to god for there indecisiveness.

The world if full of sissified men. We need men who are not afraid to stand up and be counted.

Dan’D

That is all that it is, your opinion.

My opinion, is different.

[SavedLou]

Is anyone else sick and tired of having (some) of the Tulsa crowd act like everyone else in the UPC is just some anything-goes, throw out all the standards, worldly bunch of sinners who look just like Hollywood and are barely on the other side of hell?! Give me a break. If you disagree about the TV deal, yes, you have every right to leave, but stop making everyone else feel like we have all just gone completely Charismatic and will be sitting with the pink haired lady on TBN tomorrow!!! Last time I checked the UPC was still Pentecostal and therefore considered very conservative next to mainstream Christianity. Oh and as I said on another thread, we have evolved over the years. We ALL look and think a lot differently than our founding fathers, right? So the UPC didn't leave anyone. It has (like any other faith) made gradual changes over time. That's called progress!

[dizzyde]

Is anyone else sick and tired of having (some) of the Tulsa crowd act like everyone else in the UPC is just some anything-goes, throw out all the standards, worldly bunch of sinners who look just like Hollywood and are barely on the other side of hell?! Give me a break. If you disagree about the TV deal, yes, you have every right to leave, but stop making everyone else feel like we have all just gone completely Charismatic and will be sitting with the pink haired lady on TBN tomorrow!!! Last time I checked the UPC was still Pentecostal and therefore considered very conservative next to mainstream Christianity. Oh and as I said on another thread, we have evolved over the years. We ALL look and think a lot differently than our founding fathers, right? So the UPC didn't leave anyone. It has (like any other faith) made gradual changes over time. That's called progress!

Yes!!! :girlytantrum :girlytantrum

[PastorD]

Is anyone else sick and tired of having (some) of the Tulsa crowd act like everyone else in the UPC is just some anything-goes, throw out all the standards, worldly bunch of sinners who look just like Hollywood and are barely on the other side of hell?! Give me a break. If you disagree about the TV deal, yes, you have every right to leave, but stop making everyone else feel like we have all just gone completely Charismatic and will be sitting with the pink haired lady on TBN tomorrow!!! Last time I checked the UPC was still Pentecostal and therefore considered very conservative next to mainstream Christianity. Oh and as I said on another thread, we have evolved over the years. We ALL look and think a lot differently than our founding fathers, right? So the UPC didn't leave anyone. It has (like any other faith) made gradual changes over time. That's called progress!

Post of the Thread!!! (I know that's not saying much)


:TulsaNO:

[Ron Turner]

Fill us in with which post, and why you feel that it is a joke.

Oh sorry. The original post.

[Ron Turner]

Is anyone else sick and tired of having (some) of the Tulsa crowd act like everyone else in the UPC is just some anything-goes, throw out all the standards, worldly bunch of sinners who look just like Hollywood and are barely on the other side of hell?! Give me a break. If you disagree about the TV deal, yes, you have every right to leave, but stop making everyone else feel like we have all just gone completely Charismatic and will be sitting with the pink haired lady on TBN tomorrow!!! Last time I checked the UPC was still Pentecostal and therefore considered very conservative next to mainstream Christianity. Oh and as I said on another thread, we have evolved over the years. We ALL look and think a lot differently than our founding fathers, right? So the UPC didn't leave anyone. It has (like any other faith) made gradual changes over time. That's called progress!

Wonderful post. Great point. I agree.

[George]

I guess my question is, if this is true, why was one of the "Tulsa 6" willing to allow his name to stand for prominent leadership within the UPC last year.

Are you saying to me that if he had been elected, that he would still have left the UPC after res.4?

My initial response is "No." After some consideration, I am leaning towards "Yes." WPF has been in the making for a couple years. If he would have won the the election, he would have had nearly eight months to work to direct in a "preferred Apostolic" way. He would have believed more UPC would follow him and thereby make the WPF larger.

[George]

Is anyone else sick and tired of having (some) of the Tulsa crowd act like everyone else in the UPC is just some anything-goes, throw out all the standards, worldly bunch of sinners who look just like Hollywood and are barely on the other side of hell?! Give me a break. If you disagree about the TV deal, yes, you have every right to leave, but stop making everyone else feel like we have all just gone completely Charismatic and will be sitting with the pink haired lady on TBN tomorrow!!! Last time I checked the UPC was still Pentecostal and therefore considered very conservative next to mainstream Christianity. Oh and as I said on another thread, we have evolved over the years. We ALL look and think a lot differently than our founding fathers, right? So the UPC didn't leave anyone. It has (like any other faith) made gradual changes over time. That's called progress!

YES!

[StMark]

George(or anyone)

Could this be any indication that there was something in the works long before it became public knowledge ?


http://www.gospelmax.com/productCart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=19



Wilson set this site up a few years ago. There was nothing on it but mostly Rock Church Products. Will This will be WPF's new
Pentecostal Publishing House ??

[Pastor G]

George(or anyone)

Could this be any indication that there was something in the works long before it became public knowledge ?


http://www.gospelmax.com/productCart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=19



Wilson set this site up a few years ago. There was nothing on it but mostly Rock Church Products. Will This will be WPF's new
Pentecostal Publishing House ??


You order yours yet, Mark?

[StMark]

You order yours yet, Mark?


LOrd help 'em :happydance

[George]

George(or anyone)

Could this be any indication that there was something in the works long before it became public knowledge ?


http://www.gospelmax.com/productCart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=19



Wilson set this site up a few years ago. There was nothing on it but mostly Rock Church Products. Will This will be WPF's new
Pentecostal Publishing House ??

I have always maintained WPF has been in the works ever since Haney become gen. supt. Did you notice the brand name on the set of CD's? LOL Maybe there will be t-shirts and hoodies coming soon.

[pelathais]

Is anyone else sick and tired of having (some) of the Tulsa crowd act like everyone else in the UPC is just some anything-goes, throw out all the standards, worldly bunch of sinners who look just like Hollywood and are barely on the other side of hell?! Give me a break. If you disagree about the TV deal, yes, you have every right to leave, but stop making everyone else feel like we have all just gone completely Charismatic and will be sitting with the pink haired lady on TBN tomorrow!!! ...

You bring up an excellent point. This same tactic is used by the American political Left when they attack the United States. Notice the following argument being used by a Berkeley, CA city councilman:

"We are confronted with an organization that can spend billions of dollars on propaganda," Anderson said. "This is not Okinawa here; we're involved in a naked act of aggression. If we can provide a space for ordinary people to express themselves against this kind of barbarity, then we should be doing it." (http://www.insidebayarea.com/oaklandtribune/ci_8127493)

The United States Marines doesn't have "billions" to "spend on propaganda." Congressional budgets records reveal that. And whatever your take on US policy in Iraq might be, it's not "naked aggression" when you're responding to 12 years of continual cease fire violations and 14 UN Security Council Resolutions which threatened sanctions and the use of force.

And "barbarity" does not describe the millions of men and women who serve faithfully, putting their own lives on the line to defend our freedoms. But notice the preceding paragragh which partly describes the one hurling venom at our armed forces:

"Anderson, a former Marine who said he was "drummed out" of the corps when he took a stand against the Vietnam War, said he'd love to see the Marines high-tail it out of town."

Oh, I get it... he feels like he was "drummed out" of the club because of his committed stands of personal conscience. Okay.

That's one reason why I have to put "quote" marks around the word "conservative" when applied to "conservatives" in the UPC and the OP movement in general. Their actions closely follow the behaviors of the Radical Left in the broader political world. They run around demanding new laws and ordinances until they can't get enough legislation to satisfy their hunger and so they then storm out of the public fellowship proclaiming themselves to be martyrs of conscience when they themselves started the whole argument to begin with.

[dizzyde]

My initial response is "No." After some consideration, I am leaning towards "Yes." WPF has been in the making for a couple years. If he would have won the the election, he would have had nearly eight months to work to direct in a "preferred Apostolic" way. He would have believed more UPC would follow him and thereby make the WPF larger.

Well, I had heard about public statements that seemed to indicate that he would have, but I agree, the evidence seems to be that this was in the pipeline for quite a while.

That is even more disheartening to me than my original thought.

[Dan'D]

Is anyone else sick and tired of having (some) of the Tulsa crowd act like everyone else in the UPC is just some anything-goes, throw out all the standards, worldly bunch of sinners who look just like Hollywood and are barely on the other side of hell?! Give me a break. If you disagree about the TV deal, yes, you have every right to leave, but stop making everyone else feel like we have all just gone completely Charismatic and will be sitting with the pink haired lady on TBN tomorrow!!! Last time I checked the UPC was still Pentecostal and therefore considered very conservative next to mainstream Christianity. Oh and as I said on another thread, we have evolved over the years. We ALL look and think a lot differently than our founding fathers, right? So the UPC didn't leave anyone. It has (like any other faith) made gradual changes over time. That's called progress!

Feeling guilty?

Dan’D
:TulsaROCKS::TulsaROCKS::TulsaROCKS:

[Dan'D]

Well, I had heard about public statements that seemed to indicate that he would have, but I agree, the evidence seems to be that this was in the pipeline for quite a while.

That is even more disheartening to me than my original thought.

Its called hoping for the best but planning for the worse.

Dan’D
:TulsaROCKS::TulsaROCKS::TulsaROCKS:

[Rev]

Feeling guilty?

Dan’D
:TulsaROCKS::TulsaROCKS::TulsaROCKS:

Notice what she said.....

"We ALL look and think a lot differently than our founding fathers".

Isn't that the point you are trying to make!?

[jrLA]

Is anyone else sick and tired of having (some) of the Tulsa crowd act like everyone else in the UPC is just some anything-goes, throw out all the standards, worldly bunch of sinners who look just like Hollywood and are barely on the other side of hell?! Give me a break. If you disagree about the TV deal, yes, you have every right to leave, but stop making everyone else feel like we have all just gone completely Charismatic and will be sitting with the pink haired lady on TBN tomorrow!!! Last time I checked the UPC was still Pentecostal and therefore considered very conservative next to mainstream Christianity. Oh and as I said on another thread, we have evolved over the years. We ALL look and think a lot differently than our founding fathers, right? So the UPC didn't leave anyone. It has (like any other faith) made gradual changes over time. That's called progress!

I agree with you SavedLou...
It gets really old. We are still what we've always been. I know I haven't moved! Maybe the Tulsa group is just jealous and grasping at straws, trying to make their reasoning sound better themselves! :TulsaNO:

[Rev]

I agree with you SavedLou...
It gets really old. We are still what we've always been. I know I haven't moved! Maybe the Tulsa group is just jealous and grasping at straws, trying to make their reasoning sound better themselves! :TulsaNO:

"We ALL look and think a lot differently than our founding fathers"

Sorry but you are not agreeing with her.

You said....

We are still what we've always been

She said.....

"We ALL look and think a lot differently than our founding fathers"

[jrLA]

"We ALL look and think a lot differently than our founding fathers"

Sorry but you are not agreeing with her.

You said....

We are still what we've always been

She said.....

"We ALL look and think a lot differently than our founding fathers"

Not so friend, I feel fundamentally we are what we've always been. Sure the church has changed, but the basic HAVE NOT! Why do so many major on such minors?:TulsaNO:

[Rev]

Not so friend, I feel fundamentally we are what we've always been. Sure the church has changed, but the basic HAVE NOT! Why do so many major on such minors?:TulsaNO:

Because of sin and the human nature. I'm sure you have heard the term give them an inch and they will take a mile.

Just look at the people on this site that call themselves pentecostal.

I saw a church that was the most powerful church I ever walked into become a total mess. And all the pastor did was quit preaching standards.

It went from having someone get the H.G. just about every service to where now they are lucky to have someone get the H.G. every 6 mos.

[Dan'D]

Notice what she said.....

"We ALL look and think a lot differently than our founding fathers".

Isn't that the point you are trying to make!?

it is just not the TV. TV is just the straw that broke the camals back.

My point is, Some of our churches don't look Pentecostal. Some pastor have allowed to much into our churches.

I know of one will known pastor who allowed lady who had earring on run there lady’s fellowship.

Our standard of holiness has got to be kept up.

I don’t want my children running with the church up the street unless they believe likes us and there standards are similar to ours.

When I was a child the difference from one UPC church to the other was miner at worst now it is Major at best.

Dan’D

[jrLA]

Because of sin and the human nature. I'm sure you have heard the term give them an inch and they will take a mile.

Just look at the people on this site that call themselves pentecostal.

I saw a church that was the most powerful church I ever walked into become a total mess. And all the pastor did was quit preaching standards.

It went from having someone get the H.G. just about every service to where now they are lucky to have someone get the H.G. every 6 mos.

But, Rev...you can't broad stroke every church with that filter. I have always been taught and firmly believe in balance. There must be a balance in ministry? While there is an evolution of methods...there should NEVER be an evolving of the message! That remains untouched...the same yesterday, today, and forever! One God...Holy Ghost infilling, Necessity of Tongues at that infilling, being baptized in Jesus Name, and a holy seperated life are all STILL essential!

And yes, we in LA still believe it all!

[Rev]

it is just not the TV. TV is just the straw that broke the camals back.

My point is, Some of our churches don't look Pentecostal. Some pastor have allowed to much into our churches.

I know of one will known pastor who allowed lady who had earring on run there lady’s fellowship.

Our standard of holiness has got to be kept up.

I don’t want my children running with the church up the street unless they believe likes us and there standards are similar to ours.

When I was a child the difference from one UPC church to the other was miner at worst now it is Major at best.

Dan’D

What you are talking about is mild compared to what I'm seeing in UPC churchs.

[Rev]

But, Rev...you can't broad stroke every church with that filter. I have always been taught and firmly believe in balance. There must be a balance in ministry? While there is an evolution of methods...there should NEVER be an evolving of the message! That remains untouched...the same yesterday, today, and forever! One God...Holy Ghost infilling, Necessity of Tongues at that infilling, being baptized in Jesus Name, and a holy seperated life are all STILL essential!

And yes, we in LA still believe it all!

I've preached in many places in LA. and yes most of the churches there still live it. But you should see what I'm seeing in other places.

[Dan'D]

What you are talking about is mild compared to what I'm seeing in UPC churchs.

Explain

Dan'D

:TulsaROCKS::TulsaROCKS::TulsaROCKS:

[jrLA]

What you are talking about is mild compared to what I'm seeing in UPC churchs.

This is NOT in every church!

[Rev]

Explain

Dan'D

:TulsaROCKS::TulsaROCKS::TulsaROCKS:

99% of the women with earrings, paints, cut hair. Man and woman having an affair still on the platform, etc.

[PastorD]

it is just not the TV. TV is just the straw that broke the camals back.

My point is, Some of our churches don't look Pentecostal. Some pastor have allowed to much into our churches.

I know of one will known pastor who allowed lady who had earring on run there lady’s fellowship.

Our standard of holiness has got to be kept up.

I don’t want my children running with the church up the street unless they believe likes us and there standards are similar to ours.

When I was a child the difference from one UPC church to the other was miner at worst now it is Major at best.

Dan’D



Do you read your post's before your submit reply?

[jrLA]

Explain

Dan'D

:TulsaROCKS::TulsaROCKS::TulsaROCKS:

99% of the women with earrings, paints, cut hair. Man and woman having an affair still on the platform, etc.

Ok...that's obsurd! You're being way too judgemental here. I know that number is too high!

[Rev]

Explain

Dan'D

:TulsaROCKS::TulsaROCKS::TulsaROCKS:

I'm not sure what happened to that last post. Try again.

99% of the women with earrings, cut hair (shorter than mine and mine is short for a man), pants etc.

Man and woman having an affair still on the platform. etc.

[Rev]

Ok...that's obsurd! You're being way too judgemental here. I know that number is too high!

Just FACT!

[Dan'D]

If you want to see a healthy church. Go to any of the Tulsa 6 churches and you will see a healthy church.

Watch there young people that’s how you can till if a church is healthy.

They see it, They Preach it and they live it.

Yes, you will always see some hypocrites but the majority are trying very hard to do it right.

Dan’D

[Dan'D]

Do you read your post's before your submit reply?

So, I can't spell

THANKS
Dan'D

[PastorD]

If you want to see a healthy church. Go to any of the Tulsa 6 churches and you will see a healthy church.

Watch there young people that’s how you can till if a church is healthy.

They see it, They Preach it and they live it.

Yes, you will always see some hypocrites but the majority are trying very hard to do it right.

Dan’D

Which of the 6 churches have you been to?

[Dan'D]

:TulsaROCKS::happydance:happydanceWhich of the 6 churches have you been to?

I've ben to 3 of them myself and I know saints in all of them.

Dan'D

:TulsaROCKS::happydance:happydance:happydance

[Dan'D]

:TulsaROCKS::happydance:happydance

I've ben to 3 of them myself and I know saints in all of them.

Dan'D

:TulsaROCKS::happydance:happydance:happydance

If it make you feel any better I have family in two of them.

Dan'D

:happydance:happydance:happydance:happydance

[Dan'D]

:TulsaROCKS::happydance:happydance

I've ben to 3 of them myself and I know saints in all of them.

Dan'D

:TulsaROCKS::happydance:happydance:happydance

since you are asking:

Let me put it this way. I have been in the UPC since I was born and I’m not a young man. My Grandfather went the original Azusa Street Church. In all my years I’ve been to a lot of churches and met a lot of Preachers. My grandfather used to enjoy speaking to Bro Andrew Urshan in his native tongue. So I can tell you a lot of stories of UPC,

Dan'D

[PastorD]

:TulsaROCKS::happydance:happydance

I've ben to 3 of them myself and I know saints in all of them.

Dan'D

:TulsaROCKS::happydance:happydance:happydance

I got you beat.

:happydance

[Dan'D]

I got you beat.

:happydance

I'm sorry, My point was not to win but to answer your question.

But on that point. Congratulations

Dan’D

[SavedLou]

Feeling guilty?

Dan’D
:TulsaROCKS::TulsaROCKS::TulsaROCKS:

nope...not a bit! :tvhappy just tired of this "us vs. them" mess. sad it has to be that way but when one side wants to make the other feel like less of a Christian b/c they might actually have a different opinion on something it gets OLDDDD!

[Rev]

nope...not a bit! :tvhappy just tired of this "us vs. them" mess. sad it has to be that way but when one side wants to make the other feel like less of a Christian b/c they might actually have a different opinion on something it gets OLDDDD!

It will always be us vs them. It was that way in Paul's day also.

[AmazingGrace]

I am gonna rain happy on yalls sour parade cuz there aint no where else to say it! My baby got the holy ghost today! That makes all my kiddos!!!!

So now go back to fussin and fightin... LOL... just had to chime in and say... the WW whoever and the UPwhatever... may think they got it all goin on and fight and fuss all they want but all I know is God is good and my girl got the holy ghost and momma is happy :)

[IBCrazier2]

We need that kind of rain

:hanky:hanky:shockamoo:congrats

[Dan'D]

I am gonna rain happy on yalls sour parade cuz there aint no where else to say it! My baby got the holy ghost today! That makes all my kiddos!!!!

So now go back to fussin and fightin... LOL... just had to chime in and say... the WW whoever and the UPwhatever... may think they got it all goin on and fight and fuss all they want but all I know is God is good and my girl got the holy ghost and momma is happy :)

That is where the rubber meets the road.

The LORD is good to us.

Congratulations

Dan'D

[AmazingGrace]

Amen and Thank you! We baptized 7 more tonight at church... all from our spanish daughter work and had 4 more kids get the holy ghost for a total of 11 today! Not sure how many more got the Holy Ghost tonight... My son said so far we have baptized 30 so far this year and had more than that get the Holy Ghost!!! God is good! We are fastly approaching our 150 or so we baptized last year already!!!

[rgcraig]

Amen and Thank you! We baptized 7 more tonight at church... all from our spanish daughter work and had 4 more kids get the holy ghost for a total of 11 today! Not sure how many more got the Holy Ghost tonight... My son said so far we have baptized 30 so far this year and had more than that get the Holy Ghost!!! God is good! We are fastly approaching our 150 or so we baptized last year already!!!

Wow - that is awesome!!!!

You need to make a victory thread.

[pelathais]

99% of the women with earrings, paints, cut hair. Man and woman having an affair still on the platform, etc.
This is nonsensical information. C'mon Rev! Don't just make thinks up when you complain about how "bad" it is. That's not helpful. Didn't you ever hear the story about the boy who cried "wolf?"

I respect someone who may differ from me but still sticks to their guns. But "99% of the women with earings, paints (is that make up or "pants"?), cut hair..." in UPC churches? And open adultery among those on the platform? Nope. Again, it didn't happen. Sorry.

[AmazingGrace]

Wow - that is awesome!!!!

You need to make a victory thread.

I might sometime later... I have to go to bed now.. hurting really bad tonight and gotta go for my MRI in the morning...


DanD sorry to Hijack your thread :)

[dizzyde]

I'm not sure what happened to that last post. Try again.

99% of the women with earrings, cut hair (shorter than mine and mine is short for a man), pants etc.

Man and woman having an affair still on the platform. etc.

Where on earth are you from. This is the most outlandish statement I have ever seen on here, and I have seen a LOT!!!

99% REALLY????

When you make ridiculous statements like this your credibility goes completely out the window.

[Esther]

I am gonna rain happy on yalls sour parade cuz there aint no where else to say it! My baby got the holy ghost today! That makes all my kiddos!!!!

So now go back to fussin and fightin... LOL... just had to chime in and say... the WW whoever and the UPwhatever... may think they got it all goin on and fight and fuss all they want but all I know is God is good and my girl got the holy ghost and momma is happy :)

Awesome! AG I am so happy for you!!!

You deserve this :):happydance

[FBMcGuffey]

George(or anyone)

Could this be any indication that there was something in the works long before it became public knowledge ?


http://www.gospelmax.com/productCart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=19



Wilson set this site up a few years ago. There was nothing on it but mostly Rock Church Products. Will This will be WPF's new
Pentecostal Publishing House ??

I sure hope so! :)

[Rev]

Where on earth are you from. This is the most outlandish statement I have ever seen on here, and I have seen a LOT!!!

99% REALLY????

When you make ridiculous statements like this your credibility goes completely out the window.

My credibility does not rest with you!

99% is a real number. The couple on the platform is real! The woman was and/is a friend of ours! Everyone in that church knew about it.

[FBMcGuffey]

by 99% aren't you referring to 99% of THAT church... not all UPC churches? Seems believable to me.

[Rev]

by 99% aren't you referring to 99% of THAT church... not all UPC churches? Seems believable to me.

Yes! did anyone think differently? I think I said "I know of a church", etc.

[rgcraig]

Yes! did anyone think differently? I think I said "I know of a church", etc.

Yep, I thought you mean in UPC. That's the way it read.

[rgcraig]

What you are talking about is mild compared to what I'm seeing in UPC churchs.

Explain

Dan'D

:TulsaROCKS::TulsaROCKS::TulsaROCKS:

99% of the women with earrings, paints, cut hair. Man and woman having an affair still on the platform, etc.

You said the first quote and someone asked you to explain and this was your explanation.

Easy to think you mean what you were seeing in UPC churches.

[TrmptPraise]

What you are talking about is mild compared to what I'm seeing in UPC churchs.

I've preached in many places in LA. and yes most of the churches there still live it. But you should see what I'm seeing in other places.

99% of the women with earrings, paints, cut hair. Man and woman having an affair still on the platform, etc.

I'm not sure what happened to that last post. Try again.

99% of the women with earrings, cut hair (shorter than mine and mine is short for a man), pants etc.

Man and woman having an affair still on the platform. etc.

My credibility does not rest with you!

99% is a real number. The couple on the platform is real! The woman was and/is a friend of ours! Everyone in that church knew about it.

Yes! did anyone think differently? I think I said "I know of a church", etc.


I could see where there might have been thought you were talking about UPC in general.. Unless I missed it, it wasn't until you 2nd to last post there that you mentioned "that" church.

And if this church is in existence with 99% of its congregation basically out of touch with what would generally be considered a UPC church, is its pastor UPCI? Is the district ignoring this boil? Just curious.

[Rev]

I could see where there might have been thought you were talking about UPC in general.. Did I miss your post where you said "a church"

And if this church is in existence with 99% of its congregation basically out of touch with what would generally be considered a UPC church, is its pastor UPCI? Is the district ignoring this boil? Just curious.

This is what I said....

I've preached in many places in LA. and yes most of the churches there still live it. But you should see what I'm seeing in other places.

[FBMcGuffey]

Yes! did anyone think differently? I think I said "I know of a church", etc.

It seemed obvious to me. 99% would be an extremely high percentage for any organization who claimed to have "holiness" I think some folks are a bit quick to defend the mothership. In any case, worldliness is rampant in the UPC. Those in a position to reverse it are either pushing that direction or turning a blind eye to it... very sad. I hope it changes someday.

[TrmptPraise]

You said the first quote and someone asked you to explain and this was your explanation.

Easy to think you mean what you were seeing in UPC churches.


I hate people who show off just because they can type faster.....:foottap

:happydance

[Rev]

I could see where there might have been thought you were talking about UPC in general.. Unless I missed it, it wasn't until you 2nd to last post there that you mentioned "that" church.

And if this church is in existence with 99% of its congregation basically out of touch with what would generally be considered a UPC church, is its pastor UPCI? Is the district ignoring this boil? Just curious.

For many years the pastor was the UPC sectional presbyter

[rgcraig]

I hate people who show off just because they can type faster.....:foottap

:happydance

And I was going to say, great minds..............:happydance

You copied more than I did.

[Rev]

I hate people who show off just because they can type faster.....:foottap

:happydance

If I could just spell it would help! :toofunny

[rgcraig]

If I could just spell it would help! :toofunny

Click on the little ABC checkmark and load the spelling program - - it'll help!

[Rev]

Click on the little ABC checkmark and load the spelling program - - it'll help!

I have a spell checker but the letters are worn off! :toofunny

[TrmptPraise]

For many years the pastor was the UPC sectional presbyter


Thanks for the clarification, Rev. Is he still the pastor? Is the church still affiliated and is it still going strong? If it is still affiliated, does no one in the district know or are they turning their head from the issue? I am not wanting you to reveal the church, just want to know how long this has gone on and why it hasn't been addressed.

[Rev]

Thanks for the clarification, Rev. Is he still the pastor? Is the church still affiliated and is it still going strong? If it is still affiliated, does no one in the district know or are they turning their head from the issue? I am not wanting you to reveal the church, just want to know how long this has gone on and why it hasn't been addressed.

Sr. Pastor has a pastor also. Still affiliated! Many of the churches in this area are very similar. The man was/is a very close friend of ours. It's difficult to even write about this.

[rgcraig]

So, I'm assuming this could be the same church that Steadfast was speaking of last week.

[Rev]

So, I'm assuming this could be the same church that Steadfast was speaking of last week.

I don't know. I didn't read what he said.

[TrmptPraise]

Sr. Pastor has a pastor also. Still affiliated! Many of the churches in this area are very similar. The man was/is a very close friend of ours. It's difficult to even write about this.

Rev, I must admit I find this extremely disturbing. If the blind eye has been turned to this type of blatant hypocrisy, I certainly question this pastor's ability to be an effective leader (evidence you give points to the contrary), or this congregation's audacity to stick its thumb in the face of righteousness.

If these strong words offend anyone, I apologize.

[Rev]

Rev, I must admit I find this extremely disturbing. If the blind eye has been turned to this type of blatant hypocrisy, I certainly question this pastor's ability to be an effective leader (evidence you give points to the contrary), or this congregation's audacity to stick its thumb in the face of righteousness.

If these strong words offend anyone, I apologize.

You have to understand that this has been a process over a 30 year period. A church doesn't get this way overnight. You let this go and then you let something else go.

But this is one of the reasons why I am such a strong believer in strong standards.

[rgcraig]

You have to understand that this has been a process over a 30 year period. A church doesn't get this way overnight. You let this go and then you let something else go.

But this is one of the reasons why I am such a strong believer in strong standards.

It's almost like the chicken/egg theory - - which came first.

Do you not think the spirit of adultery could have been the initiating problem?

[TrmptPraise]

You have to understand that this has been a process over a 30 year period. A church doesn't get this way overnight. You let this go and then you let something else go.

But this is one of the reasons why I am such a strong believer in strong standards.

That was one of my questions that I did not ask, how long.

Definitely, a sign of what comes when we digress. I appreciate your clarification on this. I see we have more common ground than what I once perceived. :)

[Rev]

That was one of my questions that I did not ask, how long.

Definitely, a sign of what comes when we digress. I appreciate your clarification on this. I see we have more common ground than what I once perceived. :)

Good!

[Rev]

It's almost like the chicken/egg theory - - which came first.

Do you not think the spirit of adultery could have been the initiating problem?

No, the two people that were involved would have been babies when the slide started.

[Dan'D]

Thanks for the clarification, Rev. Is he still the pastor? Is the church still affiliated and is it still going strong? If it is still affiliated, does no one in the district know or are they turning their head from the issue? I am not wanting you to reveal the church, just want to know how long this has gone on and why it hasn't been addressed.

There is a lot more churches like that than you realize. Yes most UPC churches are very good and strong. But I Feel the UPC has not beed following up on those type of problems. That not saying WPF won't have some of that also. All we can do is Pray.

Dan'D

[ogatt]

You have to understand that this has been a process over a 30 year period. A church doesn't get this way overnight. You let this go and then you let something else go.

But this is one of the reasons why I am such a strong believer in strong standards.

amen to that. You let men away with colored shirts and next thing you know the sleeves are to the elbow and then they want to go and play golf and all the time the tv is on in the clubhouse.

then people go and get computers. I still preach against that. some of them saints aint strong enough to have computers.

whatever happened to radio and dime novels. that was the good ole days when sin was simple to deal with. Dime novels burn real good but i have a parking lot full of charrd tv frames.
Like i tell my saints about TV. "you better watch that thing"

I wish we would had y2k. We wouldnt have to deal with video, tv, cell phones, and hair curlers.
and i wouldnt have 2500 pounds of rice still in my cellar.

[PastorD]

amen to that. You let men away with colored shirts and next thing you know the sleeves are to the elbow and then they want to go and play golf and all the time the tv is on in the clubhouse.

then people go and get computers. I still preach against that. some of them saints aint strong enough to have computers.

whatever happened to radio and dime novels. that was the good ole days when sin was simple to deal with. Dime novels burn real good but i have a parking lot full of charrd tv frames.
Like i tell my saints about TV. "you better watch that thing"

I wish we would had y2k. We wouldnt have to deal with video, tv, cell phones, and hair curlers.
and i wouldnt have 2500 pounds of rice still in my cellar.



You can't be serious?

[TrmptPraise]

You can't be serious?


Don't worry PastorD, just take a look at his/her other post.

I smell a pot stirrer. :stirpot

[Rev]

amen to that. You let men away with colored shirts and next thing you know the sleeves are to the elbow and then they want to go and play golf and all the time the tv is on in the clubhouse.

then people go and get computers. I still preach against that. some of them saints aint strong enough to have computers.

whatever happened to radio and dime novels. that was the good ole days when sin was simple to deal with. Dime novels burn real good but i have a parking lot full of charrd tv frames.
Like i tell my saints about TV. "you better watch that thing"

I wish we would had y2k. We wouldnt have to deal with video, tv, cell phones, and hair curlers.
and i wouldnt have 2500 pounds of rice still in my cellar.

"then people go and get computers. I still preach against that"

Could you tell me how you posted this?

[StMark]

amen to that. You let men away with colored shirts and next thing you know the sleeves are to the elbow and then they want to go and play golf and all the time the tv is on in the clubhouse.

then people go and get computers. I still preach against that. some of them saints aint strong enough to have computers.

whatever happened to radio and dime novels. that was the good ole days when sin was simple to deal with. Dime novels burn real good but i have a parking lot full of charrd tv frames.
Like i tell my saints about TV. "you better watch that thing"

I wish we would had y2k. We wouldnt have to deal with video, tv, cell phones, and hair curlers.
and i wouldnt have 2500 pounds of rice still in my cellar.


**HEY**

this sounds like the REV Caston Smith!!!!:happydance


.

[ogatt]

You can't be serious?

if i believed in doctors i would be as serious as a heart attack with a pacemaker

[Rev]

Don't worry PastorD, just take a look at his/her other post.

I smell a pot stirrer. :stirpot

There are some funny, very funny, people that come through every so often :stirpot :toofunny

[TrmptPraise]

**HEY**

this sounds like the REV Caston Smith!!!!:happydance


.

Nah....Caston types better..

[StMark]

if i believed in doctors i would be as serious as a heart attack with a pacemaker


D, you and I both know preachers who preach against doctors so don't put it past him.

[Rev]

if i believed in doctors i would be as serious as a heart attack with a pacemaker

Listen don't wait for any replies, just keep posting.

[Pastor G]

amen to that. You let men away with colored shirts and next thing you know the sleeves are to the elbow and then they want to go and play golf and all the time the tv is on in the clubhouse.

then people go and get computers. I still preach against that. some of them saints aint strong enough to have computers.

whatever happened to radio and dime novels. that was the good ole days when sin was simple to deal with. Dime novels burn real good but i have a parking lot full of charrd tv frames.
Like i tell my saints about TV. "you better watch that thing"

I wish we would had y2k. We wouldnt have to deal with video, tv, cell phones, and hair curlers.
and i wouldnt have 2500 pounds of rice still in my cellar.

I have read a couple of posts from this newbie ogatt... i think we may already be able to crown him King TIC...

[TrmptPraise]

I have read a couple of posts from this newbie ogatt... i think we may already be able to crown him King TIC...


agreed....Captian :stirpot

[dizzyde]

You said the first quote and someone asked you to explain and this was your explanation.

Easy to think you mean what you were seeing in UPC churches.

I could see where there might have been thought you were talking about UPC in general.. Unless I missed it, it wasn't until you 2nd to last post there that you mentioned "that" church.

And if this church is in existence with 99% of its congregation basically out of touch with what would generally be considered a UPC church, is its pastor UPCI? Is the district ignoring this boil? Just curious.

Thanks for clearing this up, I had to post and run yesterday!! Yes, it read to me as if he was saying 99% of all UPC churches.