Concerning Tulsa, could sombody please answer this

[NLYP]

I still wish someone would explain something to me.....
"We are not requiring anybody to leave the UPC to be a part of the WWPF"

oooook.

So....I am UPC....and I agree that if hold license that I will faithfully support the UPC with prayer and finances.

So.....If I am upc AND wwpf.....where does my financial alliegence lie?

They say they are not an org...YET..they have woman ministry, foreign ministry, home missions, youth ministry...etc....

They WILL want their members to support their works.

So whats a "Dual" membership man to do???

I say this...ITS a ploy to get them in the door.

I just have serious problems with the "dual" thing.....

Get in or Get out....

I do know the general Board is getting ready to meet and address this....
We shall see.......
Dont get me wrong....I want this Apostolic message to reach the world...BUT...there is an old saying...."fish or cut bait".

God bless the WWPF...but not at the expense of devisiveness towards the fellowship I am a part of and love.

I say that with no malicious intent...

[scotty]

It makes no sense to me. Like I said if you look at the wording behind Global Impact and the messege in BOTT then UPC is saying the same thing as WWPF, get back to basics.

so whats the difference?

There is none, this split is about something else.

What?

thats the million dollar question.

[jrLA]

NYLP...

You nailed it my friend. I have been pondering this myself. I think it is IMPOSSIBLE to be a part of both UPC and WwPF. Not to mention all of the other reasons listed in other threads, but the financial issue is one as well. I hope that the General Board comes out with teeth on this issue.

You are either in or not. End of discussion!

I know that pushing the envelope may cause some who are on the fence to jump to the other side....but I say, there is no other course of action here!

As for me and my house....well,

Yep, we're in the mothership!
:TulsaNO:

[RevDWW]

Not to mention paying dues twice..........

[jrLA]

Not to mention paying dues twice..........

Thank You...who in their right mind would!
:TulsaNO:

[NLYP]

Thank You...who in their right mind would!
:TulsaNO:

check your pm's

[rgcraig]

I don't believe there will ever be dual membership (I really like bi-org best).

[scotty]

(I really like bi-org best).


:toofunny:toofunny:toofunny

Not even touching that one.




:TulsaNO:

[Mr. Steinway]

I don't believe there will ever be dual membership (I really like bi-org best).

So.....WWPF members are encouraged to swing both ways????????

[IBCrazier2]

I don't believe there will ever be dual membership (I really like bi-org best).

Most likely duel membership:drawguns

[dizzyde]

Most likely duel membership:drawguns

:toofunny :toofunny :toofunny

[NLYP]

I don't believe there will ever be dual membership (I really like bi-org best).

So are you saying the slogan for WPF is We are the Bi Organization???
:toofunny:toofunny:toofunny:toofunny:toofunny

[NLYP]

So.....WWPF members are encouraged to swing both ways????????

LOLOLOLOL As I spit my coke across the room......

[IBCrazier2]

LOLOLOLOL As I spit my coke across the room......

What?

[rgcraig]

So.....WWPF members are encouraged to swing both ways????????

Now, don't start that!

The other day someone was saying bi-organization. In my replied I got lazy and just typed bi-org.

[Michael Phelps]

What?

Spell check.

[rgcraig]

OMLORDY!!!

I'm so glad I hadn't signed off yet.

I spit my gum out laughing!!!!!!!!!

[IBCrazier2]

What?

Thanks for the correction ... lol:stirpot

[rgcraig]

Thanks for the correction ... lol:stirpot

WHEW - - I don't think I've moved that fast in awhile!

[IBCrazier2]

OMLORDY!!!

I'm so glad I hadn't signed off yet.

I spit my gum out laughing!!!!!!!!!



Is my face red?

[rgcraig]

Is my face red?

I'm still laughing.

Poor NLYP comes back and gets kicked off after just a few hours - - LOLOLOLOL!!!!!!

[IBCrazier2]

I'm still laughing.

Poor NLYP comes back and gets kicked off after just a few hours - - LOLOLOLOL!!!!!!

I rarely get in on the good stuff ...... I NEEDED that laugh

[Mr. Steinway]

WHEW - - I don't think I've moved that fast in awhile!
:lol Thank God!!!!

[rgcraig]

I rarely get in on the good stuff ...... I NEEDED that laugh

I think he's clueless what he did.

[IBCrazier2]

I think he's clueless what he did.

You can tell him .... poor guy

[RevDWW]

I'm still laughing.

Poor NLYP comes back and gets kicked off after just a few hours - - LOLOLOLOL!!!!!!

Is he really banned?

[NLYP]

What?

RENDA FIXED IT!!!!

MOVE on nothing to see here!!!!!!!!!:toofunny:toofunny

[IBCrazier2]

Is he really banned?

He made a Horrible typo ....... I hate to cry but i can't stop it ...... lol

[rgcraig]

Is he really banned?

NO! :happydance

[NLYP]

Is my face red?

Stop it~!!!!!:stirpot

[Pressing-On]

RENDA FIXED IT!!!!

MOVE on nothing to see here!!!!!!!!!:toofunny:toofunny

Out of the abundance of the heart.........


:happydance

[JaneEyre]

I still wish someone would explain something to me.....
"We are not requiring anybody to leave the UPC to be a part of the WWPF"

oooook.

So....I am UPC....and I agree that if hold license that I will faithfully support the UPC with prayer and finances.

So.....If I am upc AND wwpf.....where does my financial alliegence lie?

They say they are not an org...YET..they have woman ministry, foreign ministry, home missions, youth ministry...etc....

They WILL want their members to support their works.

So whats a "Dual" membership man to do???

I say this...ITS a ploy to get them in the door.

I just have serious problems with the "dual" thing.....

Get in or Get out....

I do know the general Board is getting ready to meet and address this....
We shall see.......
Dont get me wrong....I want this Apostolic message to reach the world...BUT...there is an old saying...."fish or cut bait".

God bless the WWPF...but not at the expense of devisiveness towards the fellowship I am a part of and love.

I say that with no malicious intent...

I say this with no malicious intent:

I think they should just get out and say they are out. Maybe they don't want to burn all the bridges because if they fall into the water during the crossing they might need to climb back on to get back on the Mothership. I mean no disrespect. It gets into not wanting to cut all ties and not wanting to cause complete division within families, etc.

[RevDWW]

He made a Horrible typo ....... I hate to cry but i can't stop it ...... lol

I miss alot of stuff around here.......:doh

[NLYP]

Stop now!!!!!!
Renda and I are on the phone..........CRYING!!!!!!!!
I am at work...dead man in next room....family wondering if I really knew DAD..That director is taking this so hard.

[NLYP]

Coke!!!!!! Its The Real Thing!!!!!!!

[Mr. Steinway]

Stop now!!!!!!
Renda and I are on the phone..........CRYING!!!!!!!!
I am at work...dead man in next room....family wondering if I really knew DAD..That director is taking this so hard.
:lol

[rgcraig]

Stop now!!!!!!
Renda and I are on the phone..........CRYING!!!!!!!!
I am at work...dead man in next room....family wondering if I really knew DAD..That director is taking this so hard.

I couldn't even read the post my eyes were so watery - - just glad everyone at work is gone because I'm howling!

At least at your work they think you are crying for them.

[rgcraig]

I say this with no malicious intent:

I think they should just get out and say they are out. Maybe they don't want to burn all the bridges because if they fall into the water during the crossing they might need to climb back on to get back on the Mothership. I mean no disrespect. It gets into not wanting to cut all ties and not wanting to cause complete division within families, etc.

Straighten up now.........I agree!

[NLYP]

I couldn't even read the post my eyes were so watery - - just glad everyone at work is gone because I'm howling!

At least at your work they think you are crying for them.

UGH!!!!!!!

STOP IT!

[IBCrazier2]

Not sure but this may be the first time I have seen the author of a thread hijack his own thread ... hehehehe

[NLYP]

moving on............

[IBCrazier2]

Straighten up now.........I agree!



good thing I am not bowling ... everything is hitting the gutter around here ... My 8 yr old daughter said " I haven't ever seen you tickled like that" "Youre face is RED daddy"

[dizzyde]

I couldn't even read the post my eyes were so watery - - just glad everyone at work is gone because I'm howling!

At least at your work they think you are crying for them.

Back for less than a day and already causing a fuss. :naughty :shifty

:toofunny :toofunny :toofunny

[rgcraig]

Not sure but this may be the first time I have seen the author of a thread hijack his own thread ... hehehehe

For sure.

:TulsaTime:

[rgcraig]

good thing I am not bowling ... everything is hitting the gutter around here ... My 8 yr old daughter said " I haven't ever seen you tickled like that" "Youre face is RED daddy"

We all need a good laugh every once in a while at someone else's expense!!!!

[Dora]

giggle giggle giggle!!!! Heeeheeeeeeeeee!!!!

[dizzyde]

We all need a good laugh every once in a while at someone else's expense!!!!

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t209/deannamullings/funny%20icons/funny1.gif

[Subdued]

:toofunny:toofunny:toofunny:toofunny

[NLYP]

Ok Back On Topic!!!!!!

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Not to mention paying dues twice..........

Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut you get $50000 in life insurance that way.

To help pay those greedy morticians--

Money grubbing thieves they are!!

(I guess I need a coffin smiley)

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t209/deannamullings/funny%20icons/funny1.gif

THAT is funny!

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

I'm still laughing.

Poor NLYP comes back and gets kicked off after just a few hours - - LOLOLOLOL!!!!!!



Wow CC1 will be so diappointed.


(who won the pool?)

[RevDWW]

Wow CC1 will be so diappointed.


(who won the pool?)


:toofunny :toofunny :toofunny :toofunny :toofunny :toofunny :toofunny

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

:toofunny :toofunny :toofunny :toofunny :toofunny :toofunny :toofunny

Mrs CC1 will be so shocked if it was CC1. It was only about 6 hours from what I can tell.

I miss everything here.

:killinme

[embonpoint]

I still wish someone would explain something to me.....
"We are not requiring anybody to leave the UPC to be a part of the WWPF"

oooook.

So....I am UPC....and I agree that if hold license that I will faithfully support the UPC with prayer and finances.

So.....If I am upc AND wwpf.....where does my financial alliegence lie?

They say they are not an org...YET..they have woman ministry, foreign ministry, home missions, youth ministry...etc....

They WILL want their members to support their works.

So whats a "Dual" membership man to do???

I say this...ITS a ploy to get them in the door.

I just have serious problems with the "dual" thing.....

Get in or Get out....

I do know the general Board is getting ready to meet and address this....
We shall see.......
Dont get me wrong....I want this Apostolic message to reach the world...BUT...there is an old saying...."fish or cut bait".

God bless the WWPF...but not at the expense of devisiveness towards the fellowship I am a part of and love.

I say that with no malicious intent...

Am I the only one that sees the irony in this?

It is the "Cons" that are always criticized for wanting to control people.

But if they pay there obligations to the org they should be kicked out for having the audacity to give elsewhere too?

As I said in another thread, kick 'em out you don't need their money anyway. Especially if they're gonna give some to independant missionaries too.

:crazy

[NLYP]

Am I the only one that sees the irony in this?

It is the "Cons" that are always criticized for wanting to control people.

But if they pay there obligations to the org they should be kicked out for having the audacity to give elsewhere too?

As I said in another thread, kick 'em out you don't need their money anyway. Especially if they're gonna give some to independant missionaries too.

:crazy

You missed it....

[Praxeas]

I still wish someone would explain something to me.....
"We are not requiring anybody to leave the UPC to be a part of the WWPF"

oooook.

So....I am UPC....and I agree that if hold license that I will faithfully support the UPC with prayer and finances.

So.....If I am upc AND wwpf.....where does my financial alliegence lie?

They say they are not an org...YET..they have woman ministry, foreign ministry, home missions, youth ministry...etc....

They WILL want their members to support their works.

So whats a "Dual" membership man to do???

I say this...ITS a ploy to get them in the door.

I just have serious problems with the "dual" thing.....

Get in or Get out....

I do know the general Board is getting ready to meet and address this....
We shall see.......
Dont get me wrong....I want this Apostolic message to reach the world...BUT...there is an old saying...."fish or cut bait".

God bless the WWPF...but not at the expense of devisiveness towards the fellowship I am a part of and love.

I say that with no malicious intent...
My question is....what is the point in starting a new org which for many seemed to be based on Res 4....not being able to fellowship or be IN an org that was going the wrong direction.....hmmmmm

[Praxeas]

Am I the only one that sees the irony in this?

It is the "Cons" that are always criticized for wanting to control people.

But if they pay there obligations to the org they should be kicked out for having the audacity to give elsewhere too?

As I said in another thread, kick 'em out you don't need their money anyway. Especially if they're gonna give some to independant missionaries too.

:crazy
This goes to show there are still a lot of Cons left in the UPCI :tvhappy

[Neck]

I still wish someone would explain something to me.....
"We are not requiring anybody to leave the UPC to be a part of the WWPF"

oooook.

So....I am UPC....and I agree that if hold license that I will faithfully support the UPC with prayer and finances.

So.....If I am upc AND wwpf.....where does my financial alliegence lie?

They say they are not an org...YET..they have woman ministry, foreign ministry, home missions, youth ministry...etc....

They WILL want their members to support their works.

So whats a "Dual" membership man to do???

I say this...ITS a ploy to get them in the door.

I just have serious problems with the "dual" thing.....

Get in or Get out....

I do know the general Board is getting ready to meet and address this....
We shall see.......
Dont get me wrong....I want this Apostolic message to reach the world...BUT...there is an old saying...."fish or cut bait".

God bless the WWPF...but not at the expense of devisiveness towards the fellowship I am a part of and love.

I say that with no malicious intent...

All new organization are soft at first. Once they reach the level of membership to finance their organization they will become show more authority.

Right now they just want the UPCI ministers to here the sales pitch.

They fully believe everyone wants to go back to 1945.

Before the TV etc....

[embonpoint]

You missed it....

Please tell me what I missed.

[AGAPE]

I predict that the WPF will cause a lot of good...maybe, just maybe the UPC conference speakers will speak more about the ESSENTIALS of the Oneness of God; The New Birth (Acts 2:38); Living an Overcoming Life; Holiness within and without...IF so maybe they will pull the UPC to the right....it would be good...

BUT if they refuse to name things they will continue to drift...........

[NLYP]

All new organization are soft at first. Once they reach the level of membership to finance their organization they will become show more authority.

Right now they just want the UPCI ministers to here the sales pitch.

They fully believe everyone wants to go back to 1945.

Before the TV etc....

DING DING DING...We have a winner!!!!!!!!!

[NLYP]

All this and nobody still has answered the original question.

[rgcraig]

All this and nobody still has answered the original question.

What WAS the question?

[TalkLady]

I still wish someone would explain something to me.....
"We are not requiring anybody to leave the UPC to be a part of the WWPF"

oooook.

So....I am UPC....and I agree that if hold license that I will faithfully support the UPC with prayer and finances.

So.....If I am upc AND wwpf.....where does my financial alliegence lie?

They say they are not an org...YET..they have woman ministry, foreign ministry, home missions, youth ministry...etc....

They WILL want their members to support their works.

So whats a "Dual" membership man to do???

I say this...ITS a ploy to get them in the door.

I just have serious problems with the "dual" thing.....

Get in or Get out....

I do know the general Board is getting ready to meet and address this....
We shall see.......
Dont get me wrong....I want this Apostolic message to reach the world...BUT...there is an old saying...."fish or cut bait".

God bless the WWPF...but not at the expense of devisiveness towards the fellowship I am a part of and love.

I say that with no malicious intent...


All this and nobody still has answered the original question.

Was the bolded above considered the original question..If so -

Maybe he should get a prescription for lithium if he becomes bipolar. JUST KIDDING. JUST KIDDING.

[TrmptPraise]

OK, Dan.

Dual Membership Man (Sounds like a super hero, "Hi I'm Dual Membership Man, here to empty my wallet at the intersection of disunity, straddling fences in one easy step, traveling from St.Louis to Tulsa at the speed of sound *audio only*")

Seriously, there shouldn't be one. You can only serve one master :stirpot

[pelathais]

All this and nobody still has answered the original question.
The WwPF seems to have been founded around a certain ambiguity. You're not supposed to ask questions. Just appreciate the fact that there was no UPC "bashing" and a "great spirit" was in Tulsa.

So far very few questions have been answered.

Someone mentioned that the General Board was getting ready to meet about this. I just spoke to one of my contacts on the GB yesterday and he didn't say anything about it. But then again I didn't bring it up either. I think some of the Tulsa men are waiting to be "martyred." It's like those Buddhist monks in SE Asia demonstrated: the best way to get a lot of attention is to set yourself on fire.

[bishoph]

At the risk of being called the WPF defender (I've been called much worse I'll assure you) Let me take a stab at answering the question and hopefully provide some clarification.

Because the WPF has been billed as a fellowship not an organization, (which many here dispute) as such it differs nothing from the AWCF or the NCO, except that it is more structured and their (WPF) fees are substantial. (AWCF has very minimal dues while the NCO at this time has none as far as I can tell) However, for the man who has built a relationship with the UPCI that he wants to retain, and/or if he is in a situation where the church he pastors wishes to continue fellowship within the UPCI structure, this should not prevent him from being a part of both and deriving the benefits of both if he so chooses. This is no different IMO than a pastor paying for membership in some other "professional" association that would be related to his call of ministry. For many smaller church pastors, it may not be financially feasible to do both, in which case unfortunately a person may have to choose. (This is a concern that I have voiced to the WPF leadership and it will be addressed.)

I highly regard the UPCI and have/will never bash(ed) it or its leaders. I do feel however, that some have misunderstood the WPF because of the apparent similarities such as youth, ladies, missions, Bible quizzing, etc. Remember that the WPF is not just for UPCI members present and past, but rather for any and all Apostolics who may share a "conservative" viewpoint. This means men who may be independent and may need the different departments to better serve their members. Also it should be understood that while there may be seemingly mirror auxiliaries, they are not even remotely the same as outlined in Tulsa.

As an example with the World Missions committee, the WPF is not going to commission and deputize missionaries. They are going to identify nationals who are already evangelizing their countries and help them facilitate that evangelism. They will also identify missionaries who are doing the work of God and help to raise their support without the need for deputation, and without subtracting any administrative fees from their support, thus allowing them to put their efforts in fulfilling their call instead of raising money. They have stated very clearly that if a WPF pastor wishes to support a UPCI/other Apostolic organization missionary that all funds designated for that missionary will be sent to the respective organization.

Again I think it is hypocritical to find fault with the WPF based on these issues, if you would defend someone being UPCI and AWCF. The AWCF has a missions department (I have been on missions trips with them) they now have a youth arm that LS has been developing (and doing a great job) etc.

Respectfully Submitted.

[scotty]

I predict that the WPF will cause a lot of good...maybe, just maybe the UPC conference speakers will speak more about the ESSENTIALS of the Oneness of God; The New Birth (Acts 2:38); Living an Overcoming Life; Holiness within and without...IF so maybe they will pull the UPC to the right....it would be good...

BUT if they refuse to name things they will continue to drift...........

Have you seen BOTT?? Specificly Bro. Mangun from Jan 9th. If not, then you got your wish but haven't read it yet.

I still don't know why they split, I know what they say, but what they say is empty. One day we will know the truth.

[scotty]

It makes no sense to me. Like I said if you look at the wording behind Global Impact and the messege in BOTT then UPC is saying the same thing as WWPF, get back to basics.

so whats the difference?

There is none, this split is about something else.

What?

thats the million dollar question.


Bump

:TulsaNO:

[Wink]

At the risk of being called the WPF defender (I've been called much worse I'll assure you) Let me take a stab at answering the question and hopefully provide some clarification.

Because the WPF has been billed as a fellowship not an organization, (which many here dispute) as such it differs nothing from the AWCF or the NCO, except that it is more structured and their (WPF) fees are substantial. (AWCF has very minimal dues while the NCO at this time has none as far as I can tell) However, for the man who has built a relationship with the UPCI that he wants to retain, and/or if he is in a situation where the church he pastors wishes to continue fellowship within the UPCI structure, this should not prevent him from being a part of both and deriving the benefits of both if he so chooses. This is no different IMO than a pastor paying for membership in some other "professional" association that would be related to his call of ministry. For many smaller church pastors, it may not be financially feasible to do both, in which case unfortunately a person may have to choose. (This is a concern that I have voiced to the WPF leadership and it will be addressed.)

I highly regard the UPCI and have/will never bash(ed) it or its leaders. I do feel however, that some have misunderstood the WPF because of the apparent similarities such as youth, ladies, missions, Bible quizzing, etc. Remember that the WPF is not just for UPCI members present and past, but rather for any and all Apostolics who may share a "conservative" viewpoint. This means men who may be independent and may need the different departments to better serve their members. Also it should be understood that while there may be seemingly mirror auxiliaries, they are not even remotely the same as outlined in Tulsa.

As an example with the World Missions committee, the WPF is not going to commission and deputize missionaries. They are going to identify nationals who are already evangelizing their countries and help them facilitate that evangelism. They will also identify missionaries who are doing the work of God and help to raise their support without the need for deputation, and without subtracting any administrative fees from their support, thus allowing them to put their efforts in fulfilling their call instead of raising money. They have stated very clearly that if a WPF pastor wishes to support a UPCI/other Apostolic organization missionary that all funds designated for that missionary will be sent to the respective organization.

Again I think it is hypocritical to find fault with the WPF based on these issues, if you would defend someone being UPCI and AWCF. The AWCF has a missions department (I have been on missions trips with them) they now have a youth arm that LS has been developing (and doing a great job) etc.

Respectfully Submitted.


then why do you need a formal fellowship? I know lots of cons that travel and attend each others meetings and have a circle of fellowship without putting a name to it or drawing up paperwork or appointing people or taking money!!!

Why not just agree to fellowship certain people and leave the money and the positions out of it.

[rgcraig]

then why do you need a formal fellowship? I know lots of cons that travel and attend each others meetings and have a circle of fellowship without putting a name to it or drawing up paperwork or appointing people or taking money!!!

Why not just agree to fellowship certain people and leave the money and the positions out of it.

Eureka!!!! The millions dollar question is now on the floor!

Seems to be working for Bro. Epley.

[bishoph]

then why do you need a formal fellowship? I know lots of cons that travel and attend each others meetings and have a circle of fellowship without putting a name to it or drawing up paperwork or appointing people or taking money!!!

Why not just agree to fellowship certain people and leave the money and the positions out of it.

Again I am not the resident WPF representative, however, when I see responses like this it makes me wonder a little..................I have seen people strongly defend the NCO and the AWCF here, both of which are organized, both of which raise monies, (one officially and one unofficially) have leaders and appointed leadership, and both of which encourage their members to continue their present circles of fellowship while providing a "preferred" environment to enhance the chosen genre of fellowship.

I don't have any problem with people critiquing WPF or stating their opinions whether for or against, I just think the assessment must be fair and balanced. You can't draw certain conclusions about one group and excuse the same in another group without revealing a biased opinion.

(Incidentally I support the NCO and the AWCF in their efforts and applaud them for what they are attempting to do for the kingdom.) JMHO

[Thumper]

I still wish someone would explain something to me.....
"We are not requiring anybody to leave the UPC to be a part of the WWPF"

oooook.

So....I am UPC....and I agree that if hold license that I will faithfully support the UPC with prayer and finances.

So.....If I am upc AND wwpf.....where does my financial alliegence lie?

They say they are not an org...YET..they have woman ministry, foreign ministry, home missions, youth ministry...etc....

They WILL want their members to support their works.

So whats a "Dual" membership man to do???

I say this...ITS a ploy to get them in the door.

I just have serious problems with the "dual" thing.....

Get in or Get out....

I do know the general Board is getting ready to meet and address this....
We shall see.......
Dont get me wrong....I want this Apostolic message to reach the world...BUT...there is an old saying...."fish or cut bait".

God bless the WWPF...but not at the expense of devisiveness towards the fellowship I am a part of and love.

I say that with no malicious intent...

Didn't your hero Anthony M say at BOTT this last year that the TV issue wasn't a holiness issue but an evangelism issue? Why would you oppose another layer of potential evangelism like the WPF is offering. More potential funds going to various missions and ministries that might not be covered by the umbrella of the UPC. More souls reached by the gospel that the UPC is not reaching.

Dont get me wrong....I want this Apostolic message to reach the world...BUT...there is an old saying...."fish or cut bait".

Either you want this apostolic message to reach the world or you don't. No buts at all.

[Thumper]

OK, Dan.


Seriously, there shouldn't be one. You can only serve one master :stirpot

True and the UPC is a hard taskmaster isn't she

[Thumper]

At the risk of being called the WPF defender (I've been called much worse I'll assure you) Let me take a stab at answering the question and hopefully provide some clarification.

Because the WPF has been billed as a fellowship not an organization, (which many here dispute) as such it differs nothing from the AWCF or the NCO, except that it is more structured and their (WPF) fees are substantial. (AWCF has very minimal dues while the NCO at this time has none as far as I can tell) However, for the man who has built a relationship with the UPCI that he wants to retain, and/or if he is in a situation where the church he pastors wishes to continue fellowship within the UPCI structure, this should not prevent him from being a part of both and deriving the benefits of both if he so chooses. This is no different IMO than a pastor paying for membership in some other "professional" association that would be related to his call of ministry. For many smaller church pastors, it may not be financially feasible to do both, in which case unfortunately a person may have to choose. (This is a concern that I have voiced to the WPF leadership and it will be addressed.)

I highly regard the UPCI and have/will never bash(ed) it or its leaders. I do feel however, that some have misunderstood the WPF because of the apparent similarities such as youth, ladies, missions, Bible quizzing, etc. Remember that the WPF is not just for UPCI members present and past, but rather for any and all Apostolics who may share a "conservative" viewpoint. This means men who may be independent and may need the different departments to better serve their members. Also it should be understood that while there may be seemingly mirror auxiliaries, they are not even remotely the same as outlined in Tulsa.

As an example with the World Missions committee, the WPF is not going to commission and deputize missionaries. They are going to identify nationals who are already evangelizing their countries and help them facilitate that evangelism. They will also identify missionaries who are doing the work of God and help to raise their support without the need for deputation, and without subtracting any administrative fees from their support, thus allowing them to put their efforts in fulfilling their call instead of raising money. They have stated very clearly that if a WPF pastor wishes to support a UPCI/other Apostolic organization missionary that all funds designated for that missionary will be sent to the respective organization.

Again I think it is hypocritical to find fault with the WPF based on these issues, if you would defend someone being UPCI and AWCF. The AWCF has a missions department (I have been on missions trips with them) they now have a youth arm that LS has been developing (and doing a great job) etc.

Respectfully Submitted.

Quit being so logical. That is not allowed here.

[Neck]

I still wish someone would explain something to me.....
"We are not requiring anybody to leave the UPC to be a part of the WWPF"

oooook.

So....I am UPC....and I agree that if hold license that I will faithfully support the UPC with prayer and finances.

So.....If I am upc AND wwpf.....where does my financial alliegence lie?

They say they are not an org...YET..they have woman ministry, foreign ministry, home missions, youth ministry...etc....

They WILL want their members to support their works.

So whats a "Dual" membership man to do???

I say this...ITS a ploy to get them in the door.

I just have serious problems with the "dual" thing.....

Get in or Get out....

I do know the general Board is getting ready to meet and address this....
We shall see.......
Dont get me wrong....I want this Apostolic message to reach the world...BUT...there is an old saying...."fish or cut bait".

God bless the WWPF...but not at the expense of devisiveness towards the fellowship I am a part of and love.

I say that with no malicious intent...

Of course the WPF wants you to send money along to them. Even to the point of using part of your tithing to pay membership.

That is a first.

They want to make sure you do not have any extra out of pocket.

Just do not give it the other God when you tithe give it to the WPF God.

Becasue we live more like the real God.

God will only be winking our way.....

[Thumper]

Of course the WPF wants you to send money along to them. Even to the point of using part of your tithing to pay membership.

That is a first.

They want to make sure you do not have any extra out of pocket.

Just do not give it the other God when you tithe give it to the WPF God.

Becasue we live more like the real God.

God will only be winking our way.....

It's posts like this that remind me to pray for you, that God would heal your wounds from being kicked in the head by a horse.

[NLYP]

Again I am not the resident WPF representative, however, when I see responses like this it makes me wonder a little..................I have seen people strongly defend the NCO and the AWCF here, both of which are organized, both of which raise monies, (one officially and one unofficially) have leaders and appointed leadership, and both of which encourage their members to continue their present circles of fellowship while providing a "preferred" environment to enhance the chosen genre of fellowship.

I don't have any problem with people critiquing WPF or stating their opinions whether for or against, I just think the assessment must be fair and balanced. You can't draw certain conclusions about one group and excuse the same in another group without revealing a biased opinion.

(Incidentally I support the NCO and the AWCF in their efforts and applaud them for what they are attempting to do for the kingdom.) JMHO

However......the AWCF nor the NCO will get the money that I give the UPCI.
You a part of the sanhiedran of 50...so I understand your defense.
I DO KNOW that the General Board is meeting on Feb 25th and this will be discussed. Dual membership will not be an option is my understanding.

[NLYP]

Again I am not the resident WPF representative, however, when I see responses like this it makes me wonder a little..................I have seen people strongly defend the NCO and the AWCF here, both of which are organized, both of which raise monies, (one officially and one unofficially) have leaders and appointed leadership, and both of which encourage their members to continue their present circles of fellowship while providing a "preferred" environment to enhance the chosen genre of fellowship.

I don't have any problem with people critiquing WPF or stating their opinions whether for or against, I just think the assessment must be fair and balanced. You can't draw certain conclusions about one group and excuse the same in another group without revealing a biased opinion.

(Incidentally I support the NCO and the AWCF in their efforts and applaud them for what they are attempting to do for the kingdom.) JMHO

Are you for TV Advertising??

[bishoph]

Of course the WPF wants you to send money along to them. Even to the point of using part of your tithing to pay membership.

That is a first.

They want to make sure you do not have any extra out of pocket.

Just do not give it the other God when you tithe give it to the WPF God.

Becasue we live more like the real God.

God will only be winking our way.....

Bro. Neckstadt. I enjoy many of your postings, got to disagree with you here though. The tithing thing is not a WPF created thing by any means. The UPCI has been doing this for many years. If you are a full-time minister in the UPCI in most districts you are required to pay tithes to the district.

As for the rest of your post on this subject I respect your attempt at sarcasm/satire lol.:toofunny

[bishoph]

However......the AWCF nor the NCO will get the money that I give the UPCI.
You a part of the sanhiedran of 50...so I understand your defense.
I DO KNOW that the General Board is meeting on Feb 25th and this will be discussed. Dual membership will not be an option is my understanding.

Are you for TV Advertising??

Nor should the WPF

First NLYP I am not a member of the Sanheidron as you suppose :toofunny in fact I am not even a member of WPF yet. (the key operative word YET) I just feel that all assessments must be fair and balanced.

As for your second question, the answer is without reservation NO. This has nothing to do with whether or not TV is innately evil, but has to do with much research that I have personally done on the effectiveness (or lack thereof) of TV advertising/broadcasting. We can all talk about local cable access, however, "most" of the local cable access "church" programing is not the image/spirit of Pentecost we want portrayed to the world. (And will unfortunately probably be what is seen the most.)

The reality is that the mainstream denominations have already been down this path, and they for the most part have completely discontinued TV advertising, (think about the last time you saw an add for a local church....very rare indeed according to statistics) because it doesn't provide a reasonable return. (I know if one soul is won........but lets face it there have been many things that we have tried and ceased to do that won 1,2, or even 3 souls but we didn't feel that the effort, time, or money spent, exemplified wise stewardship.)

A friend of mine had a TV broadcast on a national network that cost him $2000.00 per 30 minutes of airtime not including the production costs etc. about $3000.00 per week, I don't know many churches that can afford to spend that kind of money. There are too many other things that are much more effective. Incidentally, his broadcast after one year had not brought on person to his church, he also has a broadcast on the local TV station and has for 7-8 years with not one convert as a result. From his internet live streaming, however, he has had 40-50 new converts, and many more around the country/world.

[Wink]

Nor should the WPF

First NLYP I am not a member of the Sanheidron as you suppose :toofunny in fact I am not even a member of WPF yet. (the key operative word YET) I just feel that all assessments must be fair and balanced.

As for your second question, the answer is without reservation NO. This has nothing to do with whether or not TV is innately evil, but has to do with much research that I have personally done on the effectiveness (or lack thereof) of TV advertising/broadcasting. We can all talk about local cable access, however, "most" of the local cable access "church" programing is not the image/spirit of Pentecost we want portrayed to the world. (And will unfortunately probably be what is seen the most.)

The reality is that the mainstream denominations have already been down this path, and they for the most part have completely discontinued TV advertising, (think about the last time you saw an add for a local church....very rare indeed according to statistics) because it doesn't provide a reasonable return. (I know if one soul is won........but lets face it there have been many things that we have tried and ceased to do that won 1,2, or even 3 souls but we didn't feel that the effort, time, or money spent, exemplified wise stewardship.)

A friend of mine had a TV broadcast on a national network that cost him $2000.00 per 30 minutes of airtime not including the production costs etc. about $3000.00 per week, I don't know many churches that can afford to spend that kind of money. There are too many other things that are much more effective. Incidentally, his broadcast after one year had not brought on person to his church, he also has a broadcast on the local TV station and has for 7-8 years with not one convert as a result. From his internet live streaming, however, he has had 40-50 new converts, and many more around the country/world.


and the sad part is that you can lose more thru the internet than TV. tv chats dont really seem to escalate into affairs.

[Praxeas]

and the sad part is that you can lose more thru the internet than TV. tv chats dont really seem to escalate into affairs.
wow......I mean WOW! Did he say it? Did he really say it? Hmmmmm...... :stirpot

[Cindy]

wow......I mean WOW! Did he say it? Did he really say it? Hmmmmm...... :stirpot

Yep, he did.

[NLYP]

Nor should the WPF

First NLYP I am not a member of the Sanheidron as you suppose :toofunny in fact I am not even a member of WPF yet. (the key operative word YET) I just feel that all assessments must be fair and balanced.

As for your second question, the answer is without reservation NO. This has nothing to do with whether or not TV is innately evil, but has to do with much research that I have personally done on the effectiveness (or lack thereof) of TV advertising/broadcasting. We can all talk about local cable access, however, "most" of the local cable access "church" programing is not the image/spirit of Pentecost we want portrayed to the world. (And will unfortunately probably be what is seen the most.)

The reality is that the mainstream denominations have already been down this path, and they for the most part have completely discontinued TV advertising, (think about the last time you saw an add for a local church....very rare indeed according to statistics) because it doesn't provide a reasonable return. (I know if one soul is won........but lets face it there have been many things that we have tried and ceased to do that won 1,2, or even 3 souls but we didn't feel that the effort, time, or money spent, exemplified wise stewardship.)

A friend of mine had a TV broadcast on a national network that cost him $2000.00 per 30 minutes of airtime not including the production costs etc. about $3000.00 per week, I don't know many churches that can afford to spend that kind of money. There are too many other things that are much more effective. Incidentally, his broadcast after one year had not brought on person to his church, he also has a broadcast on the local TV station and has for 7-8 years with not one convert as a result. From his internet live streaming, however, he has had 40-50 new converts, and many more around the country/world.

Well....let me share with you the other side of it....
Our former Pastor, before we moved here has been on tv for over a year and a half. He sits behind his desk and teaches search for truth for 30 minutes 3 times a week on our local cable station. He is a HIGH Holiness preacher. Our church went from 200 to 500 in less then 3 years. He changed NOTHING about him or what he preached....BUT used the best way possible to reach the masses. On the visitor card it says...did you find out about us through tv?

91% said yes.

They have a 72% retention rate.....ALL THROUGH search for truth...but instead of 1 family at a time in a living room..its hundreds of households at a time.

OH by the way thats at a cost of 150.00 per 30 minute spot.

My funeral home is on a 30 sec spot 5 times per day....we are on cnn, fox news, lifetime and the discovery channel.....
We paid 5500.00 to produce the spot and we pay 7.00 per day.....ie 210.00 per month....
in 2006 this funeral home did 32 funerals...Ive been here 6 months and have done 46....sooooo

Cant argue the facts man...you just can do it.

Kinda like the baptist saying the Holy Ghost isnt real, you cant argue with what Ive experienced.

Here is the UPC webiste..... www.hopupc.org
Its called the what and where of the Bible.

Later.

[Mr. Steinway]

Well....let me share with you the other side of it....
Our former Pastor, before we moved here has been on tv for over a year and a half. He sits behind his desk and teaches search for truth for 30 minutes 3 times a week on our local cable station. He is a HIGH Holiness preacher. Our church went from 200 to 500 in less then 3 years. He changed NOTHING about him or what he preached....BUT used the best way possible to reach the masses. On the visitor card it says...did you find out about us through tv?

91% said yes.

They have a 72% retention rate.....ALL THROUGH search for truth...but instead of 1 family at a time in a living room..its hundreds of households at a time.

OH by the way thats at a cost of 150.00 per 30 minute spot.

My funeral home is on a 30 sec spot 5 times per day....we are on cnn, fox news, lifetime and the discovery channel.....
We paid 5500.00 to produce the spot and we pay 7.00 per day.....ie 210.00 per month....
in 2006 this funeral home did 32 funerals...Ive been here 6 months and have done 46....sooooo

Cant argue the facts man...you just can do it.

Kinda like the baptist saying the Holy Ghost isnt real, you cant argue with what Ive experienced.

Here is the UPC webiste..... www.hopupc.org
Its called the what and where of the Bible.

Later.

That's what I call a knock-out punch! :crazyluv

[NLYP]

That's what I call a knock-out punch! :crazyluv

Sad part is...they will find some way to refute it...They will say Im a compromiser....that I water down my embalming fluids.......that I cut corners on my mouth glue....that I dont put on underwear....that I used too much make up!!!!

[jrLA]

Sad part is...they will find some way to refute it...They will say Im a compromiser....that I water down my embalming fluids.......that I cut corners on my mouth glue....that I dont put on underwear....that I used too much make up!!!!

:killinme

[Jekyll]

and the sad part is that you can lose more thru the internet than TV. tv chats dont really seem to escalate into affairs.
They just let you sin and lust in secret.

[Jekyll]

That's what I call a knock-out punch! :crazyluv
Anyone who thinks that Res 4 was about TV has no clue about organizational government.

[bishoph]

Sad part is...they will find some way to refute it...They will say Im a compromiser....that I water down my embalming fluids.......that I cut corners on my mouth glue....that I dont put on underwear....that I used too much make up!!!!

Your too funny......lol.

Not so sure it is a knock out punch!

The truth is, there are times that TV advertising works, (Your church is a good example) this is not, however, the statistical norm. Again this is not my opinion, it is soundly based on the research of respected church growth analysts such as Barna and company. (His research indicates that less than 1% of people attending any kind of religious institution are there directly or indirectly from TV.) We can all find someone that it works for, however, you cannot build a case on a very small sampling of churches, you must use the law of averages wisely.

For every 1 church you can find that it works for, the research/statistics will show 10 that it did not work for. Incidentally, advertising for a business does have a completely different set of statistics. I do not know if there have been any correlation studies done to see why it is effective for businesses and not for churches.

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Bro. Neckstadt. I enjoy many of your postings, got to disagree with you here though. The tithing thing is not a WPF created thing by any means. The UPCI has been doing this for many years. If you are a full-time minister in the UPCI in most districts you are required to pay tithes to the district.

As for the rest of your post on this subject I respect your attempt at sarcasm/satire lol.:toofunny

I Tithe to my local church. I pay fees to District and National levels....

:2cents

[scotty]

Your too funny......lol.

Not so sure it is a knock out punch!

The truth is, there are times that TV advertising works, (Your church is a good example) this is not, however, the statistical norm. Again this is not my opinion, it is soundly based on the research of respected church growth analysts such as Barna and company. (His research indicates that less than 1% of people attending any kind of religious institution are there directly or indirectly from TV.) We can all find someone that it works for, however, you cannot build a case on a very small sampling of churches, you must use the law of averages wisely.

For every 1 church you can find that it works for, the research/statistics will show 10 that it did not work for. Incidentally, advertising for a business does have a completely different set of statistics. I do not know if there have been any correlation studies done to see why it is effective for businesses and not for churches.

Impressive, didn't think anyone actually studied such data. You are correct. And so I will add, the number one media tool for the church is that very thing we are tapping on. A study poll of Ark, La, and Tx churches showed that 70% of those not already affiliated with a church will visit a churches website before going.

[Mr. Steinway]

Your too funny......lol.

Not so sure it is a knock out punch!

The truth is, there are times that TV advertising works, (Your church is a good example) this is not, however, the statistical norm. Again this is not my opinion, it is soundly based on the research of respected church growth analysts such as Barna and company. (His research indicates that less than 1% of people attending any kind of religious institution are there directly or indirectly from TV.) We can all find someone that it works for, however, you cannot build a case on a very small sampling of churches, you must use the law of averages wisely.

For every 1 church you can find that it works for, the research/statistics will show 10 that it did not work for. Incidentally, advertising for a business does have a completely different set of statistics. I do not know if there have been any correlation studies done to see why it is effective for businesses and not for churches.

I understand what you're saying, but should the rest snuff out the ONE church that is having success with TV?

[scotty]

I understand what you're saying, but should the rest snuff out the ONE church that is having success with TV?

Not at all

[rgcraig]

They just let you sin and lust in secret.

I think you missed the point that he was tic and said TV chat rooms!

However, your point is RIGHT on in regards to the internet!

[Monkeyman]

Your too funny......lol.

Not so sure it is a knock out punch!

The truth is, there are times that TV advertising works, (Your church is a good example) this is not, however, the statistical norm. Again this is not my opinion, it is soundly based on the research of respected church growth analysts such as Barna and company. (His research indicates that less than 1% of people attending any kind of religious institution are there directly or indirectly from TV.) We can all find someone that it works for, however, you cannot build a case on a very small sampling of churches, you must use the law of averages wisely.

For every 1 church you can find that it works for, the research/statistics will show 10 that it did not work for. Incidentally, advertising for a business does have a completely different set of statistics. I do not know if there have been any correlation studies done to see why it is effective for businesses and not for churches.Please give me Barna's stats on how many come in cuz they preach against watches????:TulsaNO:

[bishoph]

Well.............................since I don't preach against watches I haven't researched those stats. LOL The most important thing I can preach and teach is having a true relationship with Jesus Christ. If that is realized everything else will come in alignment with his principles and desires. I will say what he wants me to say, dress in a way that is pleasing to him, go where he wants me to go, act as he would have me to act, and love as he would love. All of this out of love/relationship not commandment!

[NLYP]

Your too funny......lol.

Not so sure it is a knock out punch!

The truth is, there are times that TV advertising works, (Your church is a good example) this is not, however, the statistical norm. Again this is not my opinion, it is soundly based on the research of respected church growth analysts such as Barna and company. (His research indicates that less than 1% of people attending any kind of religious institution are there directly or indirectly from TV.) We can all find someone that it works for, however, you cannot build a case on a very small sampling of churches, you must use the law of averages wisely.

For every 1 church you can find that it works for, the research/statistics will show 10 that it did not work for. Incidentally, advertising for a business does have a completely different set of statistics. I do not know if there have been any correlation studies done to see why it is effective for businesses and not for churches.

Brother...Humbly I as you this question......even if the "norm" is as you say.....was it not worth just one soul? or in the case of this church worth 300 souls? Did that make us compromisers??
The problem is we have created folks that are little pastoral robots....that have not been allowed think for themselves. Its time to go back to Holy Ghost and less pulpit.

The TV issue is ALL about control.....period. Its a pastoral mandate by a MINORITY of ministers that feel they must hold on to what they deem apostolic.
UGH....its so sad....
But back to my question.....JESUS risked losing his ENTIRE following by eating with sinners and meeting with a sinful women at the well....did he worry about the opinion of the following or the lost soul that needed him?

Could be he might have taught his followers...and knew they were big boys and girls...

So....he risked it all for one........

THATS why I am ANTI WPF....resolution 4 risked it all to say lets try to reach more folks.....

WPF says we did not get our way...our religious system is more valuable than the souls we could reach. With all the fussing of the followers....seems they might just need to grow up.

[Fiyahstarter]

Brother...Humbly I as you this question......even if the "norm" is as you say.....was it not worth just one soul? or in the case of this church worth 300 souls? Did that make us compromisers??
The problem is we have created folks that are little pastoral robots....that have not been allowed think for themselves. Its time to go back to Holy Ghost and less pulpit.

The TV issue is ALL about control.....period. Its a pastoral mandate by a MINORITY of ministers that feel they must hold on to what they deem apostolic.
UGH....its so sad....
But back to my question.....JESUS risked losing his ENTIRE following by eating with sinners and meeting with a sinful women at the well....did he worry about the opinion of the following or the lost soul that needed him?

Could be he might have taught his followers...and knew they were big boys and girls...

So....he risked it all for one........

THATS why I am ANTI WPF....resolution 4 risked it all to say lets try to reach more folks.....

WPF says we did not get our way...our religious system is more valuable than the souls we could reach. With all the fussing of the followers....seems they might just need to grow up.

Goooood post!

[stmatthew]

Well....let me share with you the other side of it....
Our former Pastor, before we moved here has been on tv for over a year and a half. He sits behind his desk and teaches search for truth for 30 minutes 3 times a week on our local cable station. He is a HIGH Holiness preacher. Our church went from 200 to 500 in less then 3 years. He changed NOTHING about him or what he preached....BUT used the best way possible to reach the masses. On the visitor card it says...did you find out about us through tv?

91% said yes.

They have a 72% retention rate.....ALL THROUGH search for truth...but instead of 1 family at a time in a living room..its hundreds of households at a time.

OH by the way thats at a cost of 150.00 per 30 minute spot.

My funeral home is on a 30 sec spot 5 times per day....we are on cnn, fox news, lifetime and the discovery channel.....
We paid 5500.00 to produce the spot and we pay 7.00 per day.....ie 210.00 per month....
in 2006 this funeral home did 32 funerals...Ive been here 6 months and have done 46....sooooo

Cant argue the facts man...you just can do it.

Kinda like the baptist saying the Holy Ghost isnt real, you cant argue with what Ive experienced.

Here is the UPC webiste..... www.hopupc.org
Its called the what and where of the Bible.

Later.

Stop the presses here. So you are saying that a UPC licensed Pastor advertised on tv PRIOR to it being approved by the Org?? Where are all those that are slamming the WPF for its lack of ethics to also slam your former Pastor for the same??

[stmatthew]

I still wish someone would explain something to me.....
"We are not requiring anybody to leave the UPC to be a part of the WWPF"

oooook.

So....I am UPC....and I agree that if hold license that I will faithfully support the UPC with prayer and finances.

So.....If I am upc AND wwpf.....where does my financial alliegence lie?

They say they are not an org...YET..they have woman ministry, foreign ministry, home missions, youth ministry...etc....

They WILL want their members to support their works.

So whats a "Dual" membership man to do???

I say this...ITS a ploy to get them in the door.

I just have serious problems with the "dual" thing.....

Get in or Get out....

I do know the general Board is getting ready to meet and address this....
We shall see.......
Dont get me wrong....I want this Apostolic message to reach the world...BUT...there is an old saying...."fish or cut bait".

God bless the WWPF...but not at the expense of devisiveness towards the fellowship I am a part of and love.

I say that with no malicious intent...

As it has been stated, The AWCF is much the same as the WPF. They only offer a fellowship card. They have missions, youth ministries, and regional and national conferences. While I think the "cost" of the WPF is ridiculous for a "fellowship", I see no difference in the 2.

So should the UPCI also kick anyone that is part of the AWCF, as they (AWCF) ask for finances and offerings also for their agendas?

[Steve Epley]

Dan thanks for the call I appreciate it.

[NLYP]

Stop the presses here. So you are saying that a UPC licensed Pastor advertised on tv PRIOR to it being approved by the Org?? Where are all those that are slamming the WPF for its lack of ethics to also slam your former Pastor for the same??

NO MATT!!! We did NOT advertise prior to the passage of the resolution..
























We did a 30 minute program!:highfive:highfive

He offered his card to the board...they refused it...the DS told him to do what the HG was telling him to do.
So he did and 300 souls resulted......

The DS knew it would eventually pass......Its not our fault it took too long to pass this thing. Pastor was not willing to chance losing one soul he could reach.

[NLYP]

Dan thanks for the call I appreciate it.

You are welcome my friend......

[Hoovie]

NO MATT!!! We did NOT advertise prior to the passage of the resolution..



















We did a 30 minute program!:highfive:highfive

He offered his card to the board...they refused it...the DS told him to do what the HG was telling him to do.
So he did and 300 souls resulted......

The DS knew it would eventually pass......Its not our fault it took too long to pass this thing. Pastor was not willing to chance losing one soul he could reach.

Wow. This is quite the testimony!

[stmatthew]

NO MATT!!! We did NOT advertise prior to the passage of the resolution..
























We did a 30 minute program!:highfive:highfive

He offered his card to the board...they refused it...the DS told him to do what the HG was telling him to do.
So he did and 300 souls resulted......

The DS knew it would eventually pass......Its not our fault it took too long to pass this thing. Pastor was not willing to chance losing one soul he could reach.

Wow. This is quite the testimony!

So it is ok to go against the bylaws of the org as long as you get results?? I see.

[NLYP]

So it is ok to go against the bylaws of the org as long as you get results?? I see.

Was it ok for Jesus to heal on the Sabbath?

[NLYP]

So it is ok to go against the bylaws of the org as long as you get results?? I see.

Matt, love ya man...but listen to what you are actually saying.....The org can get in the way of a soul and the fullfilment of the great commission....
Jesus knew full well the by laws of the day and the "org"...but did his thing in spite of what they thought.
Last time I checked he is our example...
Now we are not talking about watching tv or a ball game...we are talking about reaching a human soul and snatching it from the pits of hell.

[Jekyll]

I think you missed the point that he was tic and said TV chat rooms!

However, your point is RIGHT on in regards to the internet!
I was speaking about the TV. Don't require any input from the viewer to see 99% trash.

[stmatthew]

Was it ok for Jesus to heal on the Sabbath? The Sabbath was made for man, not the other way arround.


The question remains, is it ethically right for a man to hold license with an organization, representing that org and its bylaws, and then go against stated bylaws to do his own thing?

The ends (results) do not justify the means.

[stmatthew]

Matt, love ya man...but listen to what you are actually saying.....The org can get in the way of a soul and the fullfilment of the great commission....
Jesus knew full well the by laws of the day and the "org"...but did his thing in spite of what they thought.
Last time I checked he is our example...


Jesus understood and FULFILLED the Law. He was never a Law Breaker.



Now we are not talking about watching tv or a ball game...we are talking about reaching a human soul and snatching it from the pits of hell.
Not that you don't watch ball games while still holding a license, right??

[Apprehended]

It makes no sense to me. Like I said if you look at the wording behind Global Impact and the messege in BOTT then UPC is saying the same thing as WWPF, get back to basics.

so whats the difference?

There is none, this split is about something else.

What?

thats the million dollar question.

The million dollar question???

Not hardly. I will give it to you for FREE.

LUST!

[stmatthew]

It makes no sense to me. Like I said if you look at the wording behind Global Impact and the messege in BOTT then UPC is saying the same thing as WWPF, get back to basics.

so whats the difference?

There is none, this split is about something else.

What?

thats the million dollar question.

The million dollar question???

Not hardly. I will give it to you for FREE.

LUST!




I am still amazed that some will find a buggyman behind every door. :toofunny


The reason could be as simple as DIRECTION. It would seem that the WPF has already stated in so many words that the DIRECTION of the UPC has continued to change toward a more liberal organization, and thus they formed this fellowship to move forward to a "more prefered" direction.