REVISITED Concerning Tulsa, could sombody please a

[IBCrazier2]

I still wish someone would explain something to me.....
"We are not requiring anybody to leave the UPC to be a part of the WWPF"

oooook.

So....I am UPC....and I agree that if hold license that I will faithfully support the UPC with prayer and finances.

So.....If I am upc AND wwpf.....where does my financial alliegence lie?

They say they are not an org...YET..they have woman ministry, foreign ministry, home missions, youth ministry...etc....

They WILL want their members to support their works.

So whats a "Dual" membership man to do???

I say this...ITS a ploy to get them in the door.

I just have serious problems with the "dual" thing.....

Get in or Get out....

I do know the general Board is getting ready to meet and address this....
We shall see.......
Dont get me wrong....I want this Apostolic message to reach the world...BUT...there is an old saying...."fish or cut bait".

God bless the WWPF...but not at the expense of devisiveness towards the fellowship I am a part of and love.

I say that with no malicious intent...


Lets see if we can keep this one on track just for NLYP ... lol

[dizzyde]

Lets see if we can keep this one on track just for NLYP ... lol

Sorry, the other thread is way more fun!!! :toofunny

[IBCrazier2]

Sorry, the other thread is way more fun!!! :toofunny

:highfive

[NLYP]

Help Me Lord...deliver Me From My Tormentors!!!!!!

[Dan'D]

Lets see if we can keep this one on track just for NLYP ... lol

As the dust settles we will all see a little more clearly.

After a few months I believe a lot of your concerns will answer themselves.

Rome was not built overnight.

Give them time.

If they could work together we would all be better off.

Dan’D

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

I like M&M's but have been known to eat a Snickers Bar from time to time.

[dizzyde]

I like M&M's but have been known to eat a Snickers Bar from time to time.

:toofunny :toofunny :toofunny


:yahoo :clap :rooting :cheer :dance

[Dan'D]

As the dust settles we will all see a little more clearly.

After a few months I believe a lot of your concerns will answer themselves.

Rome was not built overnight.

Give them time.

If they could work together we would all be better off.

Dan’D

I think we all are not sure about UPC vs. WPF.

There are good men on both side of this and the Apostolic movement can not afford to lose these good men.

I hop and pray the WPF is for real and really works because they are more inline with my beliefs on my standard of holiness.

Dan’D

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

:toofunny :toofunny :toofunny


:yahoo :clap :rooting :cheer :dance

MilkyWay- Snickers with no peanuts, even a plain old Hershey's bar.

I never liked a 3Muskateers Bar!

[dizzyde]

I think we all are not sure about UPC vs. WPF.

There are good men on both side of this and the Apostolic movement can not afford to lose these good men.

I hop and pray the WPF is for real and really works because they are more inline with my beliefs on my standard of holiness.

Dan’D

Honestly, Dan'D, I agree with you here. At this point in time I would like nothing more than to have my evil surmising proven wrong, my faith in men is a little shaken right now.

And I appreciate that you are willing to come at this with a little more reasoned tone. That has been my problem with you, it seemed as if you were so sure that your information and way of thinking was the only "right" one. I like the spirit of this post much more! :highfive

I think you are probably right, you will probably be better off mixing with the new group, your belief system sounds like it is right in line with theirs.

[IBCrazier2]

MilkyWay- Snickers with no peanuts, even a plain old Hershey's bar.

I never liked a 3Muskateers Bar!

Gotta be Reese's .... any of them ... lol

The new Reese's Whipps are horribly wonderful.

[Dan'D]

Honestly, Dan'D, I agree with you here. At this point in time I would like nothing more than to have my evil surmising proven wrong, my faith in men is a little shaken right now.

And I appreciate that you are willing to come at this with a little more reasoned tone. That has been my problem with you, it seemed as if you were so sure that your information and way of thinking was the only "right" one. I like the spirit of this post much more! :highfive

I think you are probably right, you will probably be better off mixing with the new group, your belief system sounds like it is right in line with theirs.

Now that is one phase no one has ever said to me "reasoned tone"
I have raised 8 daughters and there is nothing reasonable about me.

But thanks
Dan'D

[dizzyde]

Now that is one phase no one has ever said to me "reasoned tone"
I have raised 8 daughters and there is nothing reasonable about me.

But thanks
Dan'D

:jaw Well, then I think you deserve my condolences!!! And prayers!! 8!!

I raised one and it was a full time job!

[TrmptPraise]

I think we all are not sure about UPC vs. WPF.

There are good men on both side of this and the Apostolic movement can not afford to lose these good men.

I hop and pray the WPF is for real and really works because they are more inline with my beliefs on my standard of holiness.

Dan’D

Honestly, Dan'D, I agree with you here. At this point in time I would like nothing more than to have my evil surmising proven wrong, my faith in men is a little shaken right now.

And I appreciate that you are willing to come at this with a little more reasoned tone. That has been my problem with you, it seemed as if you were so sure that your information and way of thinking was the only "right" one. I like the spirit of this post much more! :highfive

I think you are probably right, you will probably be better off mixing with the new group, your belief system sounds like it is right in line with theirs.


Truly, if we saw this kind of dialog more often, we would see less tearing down and more building up of each other.

:TulsaROCKS: :pillowfight :TulsaNO:

[pelathais]

I think we all are not sure about UPC vs. WPF.

There are good men on both side of this and the Apostolic movement can not afford to lose these good men.

I hop and pray the WPF is for real and really works because they are more inline with my beliefs on my standard of holiness.

Dan’D
To be candid with you, I don't really see a difference.

[Cindy]

I like M&M's but have been known to eat a Snickers Bar from time to time.

I like Mounds, but have eaten an Almond Joy or two.:happydance

[PastorD]

I like Mounds, but have eaten an Almond Joy or two.:happydance

Well....sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't.

:happydance

[bishoph]

I still wish someone would explain something to me.....
"We are not requiring anybody to leave the UPC to be a part of the WWPF"

oooook.

So....I am UPC....and I agree that if hold license that I will faithfully support the UPC with prayer and finances. Please continue to do so....to do otherwise would be to neglect your responsibility and violate ethical principles.

So.....If I am upc AND wwpf.....where does my financial alliegence lie? Your first allegiance lies with your mother organization. (In your case the UPCI) That is where your credentials are issued from and they are they ones you have chosen as a covering for you.

They say they are not an org...YET..they have woman ministry, foreign ministry, home missions, youth ministry...etc.... See my post below..............

They WILL want their members to support their works.

So whats a "Dual" membership man to do???

I say this...ITS a ploy to get them in the door.

I just have serious problems with the "dual" thing.....

Get in or Get out....

I do know the general Board is getting ready to meet and address this....
We shall see.......
Dont get me wrong....I want this Apostolic message to reach the world...BUT...there is an old saying...."fish or cut bait".

God bless the WWPF...but not at the expense of devisiveness towards the fellowship I am a part of and love.

I say that with no malicious intent...

I posted this on the original thread, here are my thoughts.

At the risk of being called the WPF defender (I've been called much worse I'll assure you) Let me take a stab at answering the question and hopefully provide some clarification.

Because the WPF has been billed as a fellowship not an organization, (which many here dispute) as such it differs nothing from the AWCF or the NCO, except that it is more structured and their (WPF) fees are substantial. (AWCF has very minimal dues while the NCO at this time has none as far as I can tell) However, for the man who has built a relationship with the UPCI that he wants to retain, and/or if he is in a situation where the church he pastors wishes to continue fellowship within the UPCI structure, this should not prevent him from being a part of both and deriving the benefits of both if he so chooses. This is no different IMO than a pastor paying for membership in some other "professional" association that would be related to his call of ministry. For many smaller church pastors, it may not be financially feasible to do both, in which case unfortunately a person may have to choose. (This is a concern that I have voiced to the WPF leadership and it will be addressed.)

I highly regard the UPCI and have/will never bash(ed) it or its leaders. I do feel however, that some have misunderstood the WPF because of the apparent similarities such as youth, ladies, missions, Bible quizzing, etc. Remember that the WPF is not just for UPCI members present and past, but rather for any and all Apostolics who may share a "conservative" viewpoint. This means men who may be independent and may need the different departments to better serve their members. Also it should be understood that while there may be seemingly mirror auxiliaries, they are not even remotely the same as was outlined in Tulsa.

As an example with the World Missions committee, the WPF is not going to commission and deputize missionaries. They are going to identify nationals who are already evangelizing their countries and help them facilitate that evangelism. They will also identify missionaries who are doing the work of God and help to raise their support without the need for deputation, and without subtracting any administrative fees from their support, thus allowing them to put their efforts in fulfilling their call instead of raising money. They have stated very clearly that if a WPF pastor wishes to support a UPCI/other Apostolic organization missionary that all funds designated for that missionary will be sent to the respective organization.

Again I think it is hypocritical to find fault with the WPF based on these issues, if you would defend someone being UPCI and AWCF. The AWCF has a missions department (I have been on missions trips with them) they now have a youth arm that LS has been developing (and doing a great job) etc.

Respectfully Submitted.

[Draw4Tacos]

I think we all are not sure about UPC vs. WPF.

There are good men on both side of this and the Apostolic movement can not afford to lose these good men.

I hop and pray the WPF is for real and really works because they are more inline with my beliefs on my standard of holiness.

Dan’D

Some of us are pretty sure that we like the UPC, and wholeheartedly believe that the many Holy men, women and children who are affiliated with it are going to be just fine - even after these men leave to pursue their own dreams and goals.

At the very heart of this issue is the question "What constitutes true Bibilcal Holiness?"

Let me be very clear, I believe and follow the NT teachings of Paul that we in the current day church have encapsulated into an easy-to-digest lozenge (or, "easy to understand, clearly defined list" if my previous analogy doesnt work for you), heretofore referred to as "my standard of holiness." That having been said, I'd like us all to refresh all of our memories in regard to what the very creator of the universe, yes, Jesus Christ himself (for whom we have enacted our "personal standard of holiness") had to say by way of warning in regard to these things:

Matt 23:1-28
1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.
8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!
17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?
18 And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.
19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?
20 Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.
21 And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.
22 And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.
23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.


Just a little "food of The Word" for thought...

[IBCrazier2]

I posted this on the original thread, here are my thoughts.

At the risk of being called the WPF defender (I've been called much worse I'll assure you) Let me take a stab at answering the question and hopefully provide some clarification.

Because the WPF has been billed as a fellowship not an organization, (which many here dispute) as such it differs nothing from the AWCF or the NCO, except that it is more structured and their (WPF) fees are substantial. (AWCF has very minimal dues while the NCO at this time has none as far as I can tell) However, for the man who has built a relationship with the UPCI that he wants to retain, and/or if he is in a situation where the church he pastors wishes to continue fellowship within the UPCI structure, this should not prevent him from being a part of both and deriving the benefits of both if he so chooses. This is no different IMO than a pastor paying for membership in some other "professional" association that would be related to his call of ministry. For many smaller church pastors, it may not be financially feasible to do both, in which case unfortunately a person may have to choose. (This is a concern that I have voiced to the WPF leadership and it will be addressed.)

I highly regard the UPCI and have/will never bash(ed) it or its leaders. I do feel however, that some have misunderstood the WPF because of the apparent similarities such as youth, ladies, missions, Bible quizzing, etc. Remember that the WPF is not just for UPCI members present and past, but rather for any and all Apostolics who may share a "conservative" viewpoint. This means men who may be independent and may need the different departments to better serve their members. Also it should be understood that while there may be seemingly mirror auxiliaries, they are not even remotely the same as was outlined in Tulsa.

As an example with the World Missions committee, the WPF is not going to commission and deputize missionaries. They are going to identify nationals who are already evangelizing their countries and help them facilitate that evangelism. They will also identify missionaries who are doing the work of God and help to raise their support without the need for deputation, and without subtracting any administrative fees from their support, thus allowing them to put their efforts in fulfilling their call instead of raising money. They have stated very clearly that if a WPF pastor wishes to support a UPCI/other Apostolic organization missionary that all funds designated for that missionary will be sent to the respective organization.

Again I think it is hypocritical to find fault with the WPF based on these issues, if you would defend someone being UPCI and AWCF. The AWCF has a missions department (I have been on missions trips with them) they now have a youth arm that LS has been developing (and doing a great job) etc.

Respectfully Submitted.

thank you ... a level answer imho