Flirt To Convert???

[TK Burk]

What's up with this? Would anyone here want their children partaking in such an 'outreach'? I have never heard of such a thing, and hope my kids never do either!

FLIRT TO CONVERT (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXJKrr8NFdQ)

:crazyluv

Okay, what do you think?

[rgcraig]

Better to flirt and convert than flirt and do other things.

[TK Burk]

Better to flirt and convert than flirt and do other things.

So it is okay to 'tease' a person to Christ? Is that an honest way to convert people? Would you have liked a man to have acted like he was interested in you personally only to later let you know it was all an act to get you to an altar for repentace? Also, what about the opportunity that will accompany such tactics? Some people, as you know, will let their emotions carry them further once they are involved. This, IMHO, is a real danger. Any time you 'lie' it always leads to sin.

[scotty]

So it is okay to 'tease' a person to Christ? Is that an honest way to convert people? Would you have liked a man to have acted like he was interested in you personally only to later let you know it was all an act to get you to an altar for repentace? Also, what about the opportunity that will accompany such tactics? Some people, as you know, will let their emotions carry them further once they are involved. This, IMHO, is a real danger. Any time you 'lie' it always leads to sin.

I would have to agree.

"a currupt tree cannot bare good fruit"

[brotherjason]

What happened to to the Spirit drawing them. I mean I use ice breakers (no not the gum) to kind of ease people but flirt and convert? That's ridiculous.

[rgcraig]

So it is okay to 'tease' a person to Christ? Is that an honest way to convert people? Would you have liked a man to have acted like he was interested in you personally only to later let you know it was all an act to get you to an altar for repentace? Also, what about the opportunity that will accompany such tactics? Some people, as you know, will let their emotions carry them further once they are involved. This, IMHO, is a real danger. Any time you 'lie' it always leads to sin.

I didn't say it was okay - just made a statement.

[Harmony]

By the looks of the video I doubt that they are converting to Christ. Looks like they are converting to a GAY club....YUCK!!

[scotty]

By the looks of the video I doubt that they are converting to Christ. Looks like they are converting to a GAY club....YUCK!!


Easy now!!!

you'll get that "bi" thing going and then someone will get banned for 30 secs. and the laughing will last for pages!!!! :stirpot

[MissBrattified]

Um. Maybe their heart's in the right place, but I don't like it.

[TK Burk]

I didn't say it was okay - just made a statement.

Sorry, I guess we have different definitions of "better". :hmmm

[rgcraig]

Sorry, I guess we have different definitions of "better". :hmmm

I was kidding.......

[seguidordejesus]

Bad idea. A former pastor of mine, not in my current location, suggested that I do this. Crazy. Everyone else in the church had, but then had backslidden...and he apparently hadn't noticed the connection. I said, no thanks.

[Bro-Larry]

I got an uneasy feeling watching that clip. Wasn't sure they were recruiting for Christ.

[Cindy]

I think that is just WRONG.

[Michael The Disciple]

Back in the 70's The Children Of God group had "flirty fishing". This included flirting and sex to win "converts". The larger issue is of course that we are not supposed to be unequally yoked with unbelievers.

A Christian should not be interested in dating an unbeliever to start with. If they are in a position to witness to someone thats fine. But not so they can start a relationship with them. The motive should be that they may escape the wrath to come and enter the Kingdom.

[The Mrs]

I thought it was TIC. :wacko

Looked like they were just joking around. Like they were exagerating how they were flirting with young women to 'specifically' get them to come to church...*wink, wink*.

And I'd like to add that there is nothing wrong with young people flirting. It's how you 'test the waters' of acceptability. If they smile and are met with a cold, hard stare, they probably would move on to another! (At least if they're smart they would!) :lol

[chseeads]

Yeah, I didn't really take it to be a serious primer on an outreach tool either. lol

[Kae]

Recently I met a girl at a restaurant, she told me she was raising money for a missions trip. She was disturbing to me and I wondered what kind of mission work she was doing. I checked out her religion on line and found that they have a perverted history. They practiced flirtly fishing. This is the only other time I have heard of flirting to convert.

[Michael The Disciple]

Ok now I went and looked at the video. I couldnt understand a word they said. It certainly could be taken for a gay thing. At any rate it seemed weird to me.

[Rev]

Better to flirt and convert than flirt and do other things.

Silly!

[TK Burk]

I was kidding.......

So was I.... :happydance

[Ron]

When I came to the Lord 25 years ago this March not only was God drawing & dealing with me but I came to service & looked around & saw all these "nice chicks" around & thought I must be dreaming!
Came to find out later most of them were married-but I stayed & found my own "Church's Chick!"

Flirt to convert-=no.

[TK Burk]

Bad idea. A former pastor of mine, not in my current location, suggested that I do this. Crazy. Everyone else in the church had, but then had backslidden...and he apparently hadn't noticed the connection. I said, no thanks.

Wow! This is new to me. I cannot believe this is actually occuring with 'approval' from 'the pastor.' Talk about being out of the loop; I guess I am.

When I was first saved, we did door knocking and home Bible studies. These worked and made some lasting results for souls. I really do not see how flirting with someone to win them will work. Your post really confirmed this. Thanks!

[RandyWayne]

There was another cult (who's name escapes me) that used to call it "Flirty Fishing". If someone can't see how ludicrous the idea is, there are some other big problems with them.

[freeatlast]

There was another cult (who's name escapes me) that used to call it "Flirty Fishing". If someone can't see how ludicrous the idea is, there are some other big problems with them.

Maybe we could call it Evangelistic Dating. :bemine

[mfblume]

Nutty.

[Sept5SavedTeen]

I saw an article on a Vineyard website that had to do with Apostolic Pentecostalism, and they were writing about us being a cult and whatnot. Anyways, I saw that they had mentioned something about flirty fishing and that UPC kids, supposedly went to trinity Pentecost churches to win their youth via flirty fishing (which was rediculous, although UPC youth did a lot of flirting it was mainly just among themselves, anyways....). I wrote an e-mail to the man who wrote this article after I had become Oneness and told him that the flirty fishing thing he mentioned was really offensive. The doctrinal differences are fine to go and argue, but they attacked our youth, so I wrote back. Here was part of his e-mail back to me:

Alex,

What you have shared is what you testify to from your own experiences in the couple of years you've been around UPC. Others have gotten to see things over the years. So, because you haven't seen what we do, you imply we must therefore be liars. What we have posted is not a smear on UPC but a warning about them which you would have done well to take heed to.

The flirty fishing mentioned to in our article is something that has been
witnessed to. You don't honestly expect UPC youth to readily admit their
flirtiness, do you?

The way we've seen UPC girls flirt with Pentecostal boys to have them come to their church was paramount to slumming. So who is your girlfriend at the UPC church you look forward to seeing? (This was really offensive to me, personally, because there were no girls at the UPC church I went to, except for my sister, and I have never [and hopefully will never] date a UPC girl)

We didn't even mention the widespread spiritual, physical and sexual abuse of a wide number of UPC ministers of women. It was deemed to intense for the
respectable article we have posted.

There are communities of Christians on the web and elsewhere who have gathered together to console each other from the abuse they have gotten in UPC. They are ex-UPC members.

I was most disappointed at the minister who was in the video and was joking around about flirty fishing. The youth were bad enough, but then to think that their pastor or youth pastor was joking about it, there and allowing this foolishness was really shameful. Honestly, if I were a parent and had my kids in that youth group we'd find another church- OVER THAT INCIDENT ALONE! My question is when is GOD going to start smitting people down for this sort of foolishness! O the fool and his folly!

GOD BLESS!
Bro. Alex

[Praxeas]

I think it's carnal....sends the wrong message to other youth and to sinners

[Praxeas]

I saw an article on a Vineyard website that had to do with Apostolic Pentecostalism, and they were writing about us being a cult and whatnot. Anyways, I saw that they had mentioned something about flirty fishing and that UPC kids, supposedly went to trinity Pentecost churches to win their youth via flirty fishing (which was rediculous, although UPC youth did a lot of flirting it was mainly just among themselves, anyways....). I wrote an e-mail to the man who wrote this article after I had become Oneness and told him that the flirty fishing thing he mentioned was really offensive. The doctrinal differences are fine to go and argue, but they attacked our youth, so I wrote back. Here was part of his e-mail back to me:

Alex,

What you have shared is what you testify to from your own experiences in the couple of years you've been around UPC. Others have gotten to see things over the years. So, because you haven't seen what we do, you imply we must therefore be liars. What we have posted is not a smear on UPC but a warning about them which you would have done well to take heed to.

The flirty fishing mentioned to in our article is something that has been
witnessed to. You don't honestly expect UPC youth to readily admit their
flirtiness, do you?

The way we've seen UPC girls flirt with Pentecostal boys to have them come to their church was paramount to slumming. So who is your girlfriend at the UPC church you look forward to seeing? (This was really offensive to me, personally, because there were no girls at the UPC church I went to, except for my sister, and I have never [and hopefully will never] date a UPC girl)

We didn't even mention the widespread spiritual, physical and sexual abuse of a wide number of UPC ministers of women. It was deemed to intense for the
respectable article we have posted.

There are communities of Christians on the web and elsewhere who have gathered together to console each other from the abuse they have gotten in UPC. They are ex-UPC members.

I was most disappointed at the minister who was in the video and was joking around about flirty fishing. The youth were bad enough, but then to think that their pastor or youth pastor was joking about it, there and allowing this foolishness was really shameful. Honestly, if I were a parent and had my kids in that youth group we'd find another church- OVER THAT INCIDENT ALONE! My question is when is GOD going to start smitting people down for this sort of foolishness! O the fool and his folly!

GOD BLESS!
Bro. Alex
I think this "guy" is biased and possibly exaggerating or making it up....I say that not because it never happens but he seems to be embellishing and making generalized statements and unsubstantiated statements like the

the widespread spiritual, physical and sexual abuse of a wide number of UPC ministers of women.

Does it happen? I have no doubt it happens everywhere. But to say it like this, widespread sexual abuse of UPC Ministers? I don't see any widespread stuff like that happening. That is not saying it does not happen, but this seems to be an embellishment

[mfblume]

This "flirt to convert" is a young person's fantasized excuse of continuing to flirt using Christ. Come on, we were all young, and know how these things are concocted. lol

[Joseph Miller]

What's up with this? Would anyone here want their children partaking in such an 'outreach'? I have never heard of such a thing, and hope my kids never do either!

FLIRT TO CONVERT (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXJKrr8NFdQ)

:crazyluv

Okay, what do you think?



Players For Christ (PFC) ?

[scotty]

Players For Christ (PFC) ?

:crazyluv :toofunny:toofunny

[Joseph Miller]

By the looks of the video I doubt that they are converting to Christ. Looks like they are converting to a GAY club....YUCK!!

Ok now I went and looked at the video. I couldnt understand a word they said. It certainly could be taken for a gay thing. At any rate it seemed weird to me.


I agree with both of you.

[Kae]

There was another cult (who's name escapes me) that used to call it "Flirty Fishing". If someone can't see how ludicrous the idea is, there are some other big problems with them.

Flirt to Convert is nothing next to flirty fishing. Flirty Fishing is perverted. I believe it was the Children of God and then became The Family or The Family International.

[Kae]

I saw an article on a Vineyard website that had to do with Apostolic Pentecostalism, and they were writing about us being a cult and whatnot. Anyways, I saw that they had mentioned something about flirty fishing and that UPC kids, supposedly went to trinity Pentecost churches to win their youth via flirty fishing (which was rediculous, although UPC youth did a lot of flirting it was mainly just among themselves, anyways....). I wrote an e-mail to the man who wrote this article after I had become Oneness and told him that the flirty fishing thing he mentioned was really offensive. The doctrinal differences are fine to go and argue, but they attacked our youth, so I wrote back. Here was part of his e-mail back to me:

Alex,

What you have shared is what you testify to from your own experiences in the couple of years you've been around UPC. Others have gotten to see things over the years. So, because you haven't seen what we do, you imply we must therefore be liars. What we have posted is not a smear on UPC but a warning about them which you would have done well to take heed to.

The flirty fishing mentioned to in our article is something that has been
witnessed to. You don't honestly expect UPC youth to readily admit their
flirtiness, do you?

The way we've seen UPC girls flirt with Pentecostal boys to have them come to their church was paramount to slumming. So who is your girlfriend at the UPC church you look forward to seeing? (This was really offensive to me, personally, because there were no girls at the UPC church I went to, except for my sister, and I have never [and hopefully will never] date a UPC girl)

We didn't even mention the widespread spiritual, physical and sexual abuse of a wide number of UPC ministers of women. It was deemed to intense for the
respectable article we have posted.

There are communities of Christians on the web and elsewhere who have gathered together to console each other from the abuse they have gotten in UPC. They are ex-UPC members.

I was most disappointed at the minister who was in the video and was joking around about flirty fishing. The youth were bad enough, but then to think that their pastor or youth pastor was joking about it, there and allowing this foolishness was really shameful. Honestly, if I were a parent and had my kids in that youth group we'd find another church- OVER THAT INCIDENT ALONE! My question is when is GOD going to start smitting people down for this sort of foolishness! O the fool and his folly!

GOD BLESS!
Bro. Alex

Flirty Fishing came about in the 60's. I have a feeling this guy didn't have a clue what he was saying. If he knew what it was he wouldn't of been joking around about it.

[rgcraig]

I thought it was TIC. :wacko

Looked like they were just joking around. Like they were exagerating how they were flirting with young women to 'specifically' get them to come to church...*wink, wink*.

And I'd like to add that there is nothing wrong with young people flirting. It's how you 'test the waters' of acceptability. If they smile and are met with a cold, hard stare, they probably would move on to another! (At least if they're smart they would!) :lol

Yeah, I didn't really take it to be a serious primer on an outreach tool either. lol

That's what I thought too. Young people come up with all sorts of funny skits and spoofs!

[Monkeyman]

OK, gang, before your knickers get all bunched up......This is TIC, I just watched it. The pastor is Mark Hattabaugh.You would have to know him and his sense of humour, great guy, great preacher, FUNNY FUNNY dude,and quite brave too with some of his "undercover" mission trips to certain countries. SoCali--Reformed Dave,Help me out, back me up on this one. DEAD THREAD MOVE ON, NOTHING TO SEE HERE This vid was TIC!!!

[rgcraig]

Thanks for the clarification - -

[The Mrs]

Lol...I figured as much!

It looked like a couple of young guys were caught in the act of flirting by their pastor and had to quickly come up with the 'REAL' reason WHY *wink, wink* they were trying to get a girl's attention in the first place.

'Of COURSE, it's to bring them to CHURCH Pastor! Why ELSE would you possibly even THINK we'd be talking to a girl!!!' :crazyluv

[Monkeyman]

I tried for years to get my "Reach The Beach" ministry off of the ground...my pastor kept nixing it...sheesh!

[mfblume]

I tried for years to get my "Reach The Beach" ministry off of the ground...

Especially in Malibu!

[deadeye]

Its a joke...there is no way that Mark Hattabaugh would seriously do something this stupid. The problem is that some of you are seriously humor challenged and just dont get it.

[KarenJo]

OK, gang, before your knickers get all bunched up......This is TIC, I just watched it. The pastor is Mark Hattabaugh.You would have to know him and his sense of humour, great guy, great preacher, FUNNY FUNNY dude,and quite brave too with some of his "undercover" mission trips to certain countries. SoCali--Reformed Dave,Help me out, back me up on this one. DEAD THREAD MOVE ON, NOTHING TO SEE HERE This vid was TIC!!!




I AGREE MM, Mark is one funny man! NO ONE like him....

[Pentecostal]

Ok people with your 'HOLIER THAN THOU' attitudes... I was ON this MISSIONS trip with MARK HATTABAUGH - this was a JOKE! I can't beleive you all think this stuff is serious and have to have a Bible Study about it! And where does the GAY thing come in??? You are sick people and need to get a life!!! If you can't get one, buy a dog and name it LIFE so you have one. This Apostolic Friends Forum is getting to be a Gossip column, and none of the Holier that thous are willing to stand up and say that Gossip is a sin??? Ok - I'm getting off my little horse... I don't want to judge either.
But, you see a little clip, you don't know what is behind it - you were not there before or after and you throw in your $5.00 (yeah - this is way beyond 2 cents stuff).
Thanks for those who know Mark Hattabaugh and standing up for him. He's a world changer, and doing many things with young people.
As for this "Flirt to Convert" - if you had been on this missions trip with our group, you would have realized it was a joke that Mark Hattabaugh was trying to pin some of the guys for especially inviting the cute senoritas to church.
It's a joke people - Laugh or let others laugh... and go to another gossip page... LOL That's a joke tooo... LOL

[Steve Epley]

What's up with this? Would anyone here want their children partaking in such an 'outreach'? I have never heard of such a thing, and hope my kids never do either!

FLIRT TO CONVERT (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXJKrr8NFdQ)

:crazyluv

Okay, what do you think?

Good grief.

[Timmy]

There was a teen girl in one of my previous churches (AG) who was dating an unsaved guy. She was so sad, one day, because God told her she had to break up with him until he got saved, if he got saved. So sad! Well, it wasn't long before she was so happy! The guy told her he was thinking of getting saved! Thinking! Oh joy, now they could date again. (I was like "what the?")

[aak1972]

There was a teen girl in one of my previous churches (AG) who was dating an unsaved guy. She was so sad, one day, because God told her she had to break up with him until he got saved, if he got saved. So sad! Well, it wasn't long before she was so happy! The guy told her he was thinking of getting saved! Thinking! Oh joy, now they could date again. (I was like "what the?")

Well in my old church we didnt need God for that, the pastor done it!

[Timmy]

Well in my old church we didnt need God for that, the pastor done it!

:thumbsup

[Pentecostal]

Ok - You all still don't get it - IT WAS A JOKE!!! OK? Don't worry about it or them... these people in this video are RIGHT NOW on fire for God, right now doing awesome ministry and preaching (some even around the world), while you set at your keyboard and judge something that was really a bad joke. Laugh or cry - but please... GET OVER IT! Let it go...

[Praxeas]

Relax....they saw it the first time you said it. It as a joke

[Pentecostal]

K - Kul - I'm relaxed! Thanks and God bless -
I hope I get to go again someday with the Youth On Missions team. This trip changed my life!

[Evang.Benincasa]

What's up with this? Would anyone here want their children partaking in such an 'outreach'? I have never heard of such a thing, and hope my kids never do either!

FLIRT TO CONVERT (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXJKrr8NFdQ)

:crazyluv

Okay, what do you think?

Interesting still today as it was then.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Ok - You all still don't get it - IT WAS A JOKE!!! OK? Don't worry about it or them... these people in this video are RIGHT NOW on fire for God, right now doing awesome ministry and preaching (some even around the world), while you set at your keyboard and judge something that was really a bad joke. Laugh or cry - but please... GET OVER IT! Let it go...

Yeah, it was a joke, sure. :lol

[jediwill83]

Yeah, it was a joke, sure. :lol


Missionary dsting? Lol

[Evang.Benincasa]

Missionary dating? Lol

Moses David Berg would be proud. :(

[Michael The Disciple]

Moses David Berg would be proud. :(

Agree Berg was the worse false prophet I knew of. Not everyone in his group followed his wicked ways. I met some of them the first time our street witnessing group went out.

They started out hard line judgment and total discipleship to Jesus. This was the way they witnessed early on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeTfkhdeNUQ

They believed that baptism in Jesus name and the Spirit baptism were both essential to be a "full Christian".

We were very much grieved when we found out what was going on behind the scenes. None of the women of the group tried "flirty fishing" with us.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Agree Berg was the worse false prophet I knew of. Not everyone in his group followed his wicked ways. I met some of them the first time our street witnessing group went out.

They started out hard line judgment and total discipleship to Jesus. This was the way they witnessed early on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeTfkhdeNUQ

They believed that baptism in Jesus name and the Spirit baptism were both essential to be a "full Christian".

We were very much grieved when we found out what was going on behind the scenes. None of the women of the group tried "flirty fishing" with us.

Amen.

I have many friends who knew this movement in its early days. Post Tribulation was preached, Jesus name baptism, and the infilling of the Holy Ghost with speaking in other tongues. But the flirty fishing came later, when Berg realized his authority was going unchecked, and unquestioned. With most cults the prime engine is the people. They are the only ones who place the leader or leaders in power. They are the main ones who police for heretics, and ne'er do wells (those who are slacking in the program). Berg was a full blown devil, and it was his daughter, and the main leadership who fueled the monster. Until the feds crashed down on them.

[Michael The Disciple]

There were those in the group who were shocked when Bergs doctrines of sex began to come out. Linda Meisner was prominent in Dave Wilkersons group in the 60's and was one of the founders of the Jesus movement joined the group taking a number of her people with her.

She was leading a "colony" of the group in Europe when she first heard these doctrines. She was horrified and taught her converts against it. The leadership that remained summoned her to a meeting and told her she had to get with the program.

She left and never saw them again. She repented and stayed in Europe for 40 years. She recently wrote a book where she addresses the matter and her deep regrets for bringing people into the group.

The leader of our group first accepted the post trib rapture from them. They tried to recruit him and our group. The leader told us they did not see Berg as the "pope" and were following the Lord. He never admitted to sexual sins to us.

I first found out about Berg when the Lord led me to read an article in a Jesus People newspaper some months later.

[mfblume]

Post trib is not "the" important doctrine. Wow. I am partial preterist, but it's not THE doctrine to me. Why all this comparison to post trib? .

[Michael The Disciple]

Post trib is not "the" important doctrine. Wow. I am partial preterist, but it's not THE doctrine to me. Why all this comparison to post trib? .

Its part of the Children Of God story and part of my story. We know Dom is not post trib. Its just part of the story.

But yes it is an important doctrine. Any doctrine of Jesus is important.:highfive

[Bro Flame]

Every time I've heard the "flirt to convert" phrase it was in a joking manner.

In reality, I don't think it's a good idea. Personally, I think one would worry about their son, daughter, or other loved one having an eye for someone outside the Church, therefore the world.

Most people, I would guess, what probably backslide if their boyfriend, girlfriend, or whomever didn't grab a hold of Christ in the way it was intended.

[diakonos]

I know people that got her pregnant to convert.

[Tithesmeister]

I know people that got her pregnant to convert.

It’s a slippery slope. Once you start, where do you stop?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Every time I've heard the "flirt to convert" phrase it was in a joking manner.

In reality, I don't think it's a good idea. Personally, I think one would worry about their son, daughter, or other loved one having an eye for someone outside the Church, therefore the world.

Most people, I would guess, what probably backslide if their boyfriend, girlfriend, or whomever didn't grab a hold of Christ in the way it was intended.

The video is about kids on a missionary trip flirting with the locals to invite them to church. Not looking for any long term realstionship, as you describe above.