QUESTION: DId only 72 or 225 join WPF???????

[StMark]

If this is not so please state what the real numbers are.

Disclaimer: I am NOT stating this as fact but rather asking the Question.

I heard from an official's wife and another pastor today that only 72 have joined WPF ?????

Now, if that is NOT true, I can assure you that is the word that is going around the UPC.

[Pastor G]

If this is not so please state what the real numbers are.

Disclaimer: I am NOT stating this as fact but rather asking the Question.

I heard from an official's wife and another pastor today that only 72 have joined WPF ?????

Now, if that is NOT true, I can assure you that is the word that is going around the UPC.

They gonna have a hard time paying the bills with 72... I am sure 900 more will join real soon...

[embonpoint]

If this is not so please state what the real numbers are.

Disclaimer: I am NOT stating this as fact but rather asking the Question.

I heard from an official's wife and another pastor today that only 72 have joined WPF ?????

Now, if that is NOT true, I can assure you that is the word that is going around the UPC.

Elder Epley posted this a while back

At Baker when the AMF formed if I remember correctly about 72 men crossed the line to form and that doubled within months then in about 4 years it had jumped to about 250 remember this was 68.

Either this is the ultimate irony or perhaps someone has confused somewhat ancient history with current happenings.

[George]

A pastor friend told me there was only about 70 that signed up. I find that believeable because most went to to Tulsa with a "wait and see" mindset. Another ultra-con elder who went to Tulsa thinking he would join has made the statement they have a long ways to go to be an organization.

[StMark]

Elder Epley posted this a while back



Either this is the ultimate irony or perhaps someone has confused somewhat ancient history with current happenings.



He was talking about the AMF sister.

[StMark]

A pastor friend told me there was only about 70 that signed up. I find that believeable because most went to to Tulsa with a "wait and see" mindset. Another ultra-con elder who went to Tulsa thinking he would join has made the statement they have a long ways to go to be an organization.



I understand that the Majority of those in attendance were independant and not UPC???????

[NW Pastor]

If there had been hundreds, as was enthusiatically postulated to me, I would think we would have heard about it.

The silence may be significant.

[PastorD]

If there had been hundreds, as was enthusiatically postulated to me, I would think we would have heard about it.

The silence may be significant.

Steadfasts' or The Dean's report (I get them confused) was that the leaders had to schedule Sunday speakers to stay over and process all of the applications.

:TulsaNO:

[embonpoint]

He was talking about the AMF sister.

I know, that is what would it make ironic and a little hard to believe if they both started with exactly the same number of members. The odds of that would be pretty staggering.

[Pastor G]

Steadfasts' or The Dean's report (I get them confused) was that the leaders had to schedule Sunday speakers to stay over and process all of the applications.

:TulsaNO:

That must have been one looonnnnnngggggg application for 6 guys to have to stay all weekend to go through 70 of them...

[Pastor G]

I know, that is what would it make ironic and a little hard to believe if they both started with exactly the same number of members. The odds of that would be pretty staggering.

perhaps their fate the same as well if the wpe can make it that long

[PastorD]

That must have been one looonnnnnngggggg application for 6 guys to have to stay all weekend to go through 70 of them...

72, G! Keep the story straight.

[NW Pastor]

Steadfasts' or The Dean's report (I get them confused) was that the leaders had to schedule Sunday speakers to stay over and process all of the applications.

:TulsaNO:

That's probably it. There were so many they are still counting.

[ogatt]

i was fixin to join till they wouldnt let me preach. I told them since we are against stuff lets lay our cards out on the table and get on with it.

if i cant hear it strong then i dont want to hear it. I wouldnt even let my young people go to tulsa...either of them.

60 dollars will buy a lot of why i do not have a television tracts

[Pastor G]

72, G! Keep the story straight.

Sorry D... I guess those other 2 were very involved...

[embonpoint]

They gonna have a hard time paying the bills with 72... I am sure 900 more will join real soon...

The SS letter said they raised about $100k on Friday night. If they get another 72 like that they should be fine.

[Pastor G]

The SS letter said they raised about $100k on Friday night. If they get another 72 like that they should be fine.

He said this; she said this; they said this..... oh my goodness what to believe??

[NW Pastor]

I wonder how they screen applicants? How do they know the WPF is clean, and there are no "leakers" getting past the gates?

How is doctrinal purity ascertained? What if the Executive Council members have no idea who an applicants three mentors are?

It probably is a huge task, regardless of the number of applications.

[Pastor G]

I wonder how they screen applicants? How do they know the WPF is clean, and there are no "leakers" getting past the gates?

How is doctrinal purity ascertained? What if the Executive Council members have no idea who an applicants three mentors are?

It probably is a huge task, regardless of the number of applications.

It just occured to me what took them so long to process 72 applications... They hooked each one of them up and gave them a polygraph test... No leakers there...

[Pastor G]

It just occured to me what took them so long to process 72 applications... They hooked each one of them up and gave them a polygraph test... No leakers there...

Actually 200 filled out apps, but only 72 passed the polygraph... The question most failed:::: Have you watched TV since Tampa, or any Wild, Wild West videos on your laptop...

[ogatt]

The SS letter said they raised about $100k on Friday night. If they get another 72 like that they should be fine.

if the orginazational thing dont work out, they could have a great investment club and i just happen to have the perfect thing to invest in.

[Pastor G]

if the orginazational thing dont work out, they could have a great investment club and i just happen to have the perfect thing to invest in.


Flat Screens?

[NW Pastor]

Flat Screens?

The correct word is "monitors".

[StMark]

wow you guys are a trip

[NW Pastor]

We couldn't get any real news, so why not have a little fun?

[ogatt]

they got ipod, iphone, ithis and ithat. Im working on ispy. Slip ir into a prayer cloth or in the coats in the coat rack and bingo! you can keep up with saints.

I figure this will go over great. TV's, Video machines, glass front washing machines, christmas trees and tylenol. It will have to be audio only as i dont believe in any moving pictures.

i take away the temptation on the computer cause i only have 14.4 dialup and im on a party line with my saints

[Rev]

they got ipod, iphone, ithis and ithat. Im working on ispy. Slip ir into a prayer cloth or in the coats in the coat rack and bingo! you can keep up with saints.

I figure this will go over great. TV's, Video machines, glass front washing machines, christmas trees and tylenol. It will have to be audio only as i dont believe in any moving pictures.

i take away the temptation on the computer cause i only have 14.4 dialup and im on a party line with my saints

What's the latest going on on the party line?

[NW Pastor]

That must be some party!

[Pastor G]

That must be some party!


They are having virtual foot washing

[Rev]

That must be some party!

Yes and a very small church! All one one party line! :happydance

[Pastor G]

I wonder how they screen applicants? How do they know the WPF is clean, and there are no "leakers" getting past the gates?

How is doctrinal purity ascertained? What if the Executive Council members have no idea who an applicants three mentors are?

It probably is a huge task, regardless of the number of applications.

72 members with an average age of 70 yrs old you are probably not going to able to keep from having some "leakers."

[ogatt]

Yes and a very small church! All one one party line! :happydance

ever since our 7 day y2k training campout we have stayed close to the church and each other.
im working on a book. 2000 reasons why y2k will happen again.

publishing house aint intersted but maybe wpf book people will print it and sell it for me.

[Rev]

Flat Screens?

No, sheep!

[Rev]

ever since our 7 day y2k training campout we have stayed close to the church and each other.
im working on a book. 2000 reasons why y2k will happen again.

publishing house aint intersted but maybe wpf book people will print it and sell it for me.

Did yall fast or eat a lot of beans?

[StMark]

ever since our 7 day y2k training campout we have stayed close to the church and each other.
im working on a book. 2000 reasons why y2k will happen again.

publishing house aint intersted but maybe wpf book people will print it and sell it for me.

Speaking of Y2K, we had a church in CA. where the pastor instructed all his members to buy guns to hunt and live off the land. He told them all to buy tents and survival gear. they were planning to flee to the woods and live up in the mountains.

his wife wrote a cook book on how to kill and cook wild game. one of her recipes was "Possumm stew". she even told how to marinate it to get the "wild taste out of it LOL


.

[ogatt]

Did yall fast or eat a lot of beans?

we got by. we live near a river and caught us some carp.
You don need a lot of money to get by.

wife wanted to go to niagra falls for our anniversry but we didnt have the money so we took a slow drive thru a car wash.

[Rev]

we got by. we live near a river and caught us some carp.
You don need a lot of money to get by.

wife wanted to go to niagra falls for our anniversry but we didnt have the money so we took a slow drive thru a car wash.

I almost swallowed my gum on that one.

I hope it was a hard top.

[ogatt]

I almost swallowed my gum on that one.

I hope it was a hard top.

1972 ford station wagon woody

[Rev]

1972 ford station wagon woody

You know high as gas is and with you loosing saints I think I would get something smaller. Like maybe a tricycle!

[Pastor G]

ogatt check your pm's

[ogatt]

Speaking of Y2K, we had a church in CA. where the pastor instructed all his members to buy guns to hunt and live off the land. He told them all to buy tents and survival gear. they were planning to flee to the woods and live up in the mountains.

his wife wrote a cook book on how to kill and cook wild game. one of her recipes was "Possumm stew". she even told how to marinate it to get the "wild taste out of it LOL


.

carp recipe

get a maple board, take the carp and soak it in soy sauce, brown sugar, and a touch of garlic and some black pepper for 2 hours.

tack the carp out on the board on the back porch for a while and then turn it over. after about 2 more hours go out and get the carp, throw it away and eat the board

[Rev]

carp recipe

get a maple board, take the carp and soak it in soy sauce, brown sugar, and a touch of garlic and some black pepper for 2 hours.

tack the carp out on the board on the back porch for a while and then turn it over. after about 2 more hours go out and get the carp, throw it away and eat the board

:toofunny :toofunny :toofunny :toofunny :toofunny

[Pastor G]

:toofunny:toofunny:toofunny:toofunny amen:toofunny :toofunny :toofunny :toofunny :toofunny

[NW Pastor]

carp recipe

get a maple board, take the carp and soak it in soy sauce, brown sugar, and a touch of garlic and some black pepper for 2 hours.

tack the carp out on the board on the back porch for a while and then turn it over. after about 2 more hours go out and get the carp, throw it away and eat the board

Is that the only board allowed in the church?

[Rev]

Is that the only board allowed in the church?

True story. A pastor told me one time that he was going to stand a board up in the cornor or his office so that when people called about stuff he could tell them that he had talked to his board and it/they said so and so.

[NW Pastor]

Amazing! That gives us all a bad name. Too bad his preaching was not able to adequately perfect his members enough to be reliable board members, a valid ministry. That is, after all, the pastor's mandate. Not to be lords over God's heritage.

[ogatt]

Is that the only board allowed in the church?


only boards in my church are the ones that the lazy carcasses sit on. No board is going to run me off. I built all of this myself.

Why just yesterday i got electric to the outhouse. Pull a string from the porch of the church and it lights up like a christmas tre.....oops i mean like the star of bethlehem

[StMark]

***Cracking up!! *** :happydance:happydance:happydance

[George]

Ogatt - you are on a roll!!!! :toofunny

[ogatt]

Ogatt - you are on a roll!!!! :toofunny

well i know one thing i about got tv preached out of our church. I stood up last nite and told those morons that if they didnt put 20.00 apiece in the offering i was going to make them openly confess
to watching tv at shoneys after church.

i had a 60.00 dollar offering and 3 I.O.U.'s that said
' i will pay up next sunday."

[Pressing-On]

carp recipe

get a maple board, take the carp and soak it in soy sauce, brown sugar, and a touch of garlic and some black pepper for 2 hours.

tack the carp out on the board on the back porch for a while and then turn it over. after about 2 more hours go out and get the carp, throw it away and eat the board

:toofunny:toofunny:toofunny

Thank you! Was getting worried about your infatuation with Carp.

:toofunny

[AmazingGrace]

72 members with an average age of 70 yrs old you are probably not going to able to keep from having some "leakers."

I thought the thread was about Defectors.. not Dependers!!!!

[AmazingGrace]

we got by. we live near a river and caught us some carp.
You don need a lot of money to get by.

wife wanted to go to niagra falls for our anniversry but we didnt have the money so we took a slow drive thru a car wash.

Thought you were gonna say you tripped her! Good.. you did it the safe way and caused no bodily harm!

[AmazingGrace]

You know high as gas is and with you loosing saints I think I would get something smaller. Like maybe a tricycle!

Whats wrong with a moped? They go almost as fast!!!!

[rgcraig]

well i know one thing i about got tv preached out of our church. I stood up last nite and told those morons that if they didnt put 20.00 apiece in the offering i was going to make them openly confess
to watching tv at shoneys after church.

i had a 60.00 dollar offering and 3 I.O.U.'s that said
' i will pay up next sunday."

TV's at Shoney's?

[R.D. Foster]

Bro. Haney said only 27 left the UPCI and 128 were added so the several hundred that joined WPF were probably independents.

[rgcraig]

You guys just had wayyyyyy too much fun last night!!!

Someone did say they were calling in ministers to cover the Sunday morning services to stay and process the apps. Who said that?

[Pastor G]

You guys just had wayyyyyy too much fun last night!!!

Someone did say they were calling in ministers to cover the Sunday morning services to stay and process the apps. Who said that?

Your friend Ste, Dea, Dou oh I give up...

[rgcraig]

Your friend Ste, Dea, Dou oh I give up...

Guess I missed that one. Well, whoever said it, I think they were given a little misinformation.

[R.D. Foster]

Bro. Haney said only 27 left the UPCI and 128 were added so the several hundred that joined WPF were probably independents.

bump

[rgcraig]

bump

So you have heard that several hundred have joined WPF?

[R.D. Foster]

So you have heard that several hundred have joined WPF?

That's what I understand. But with 9500 UPCI licensed ministers, how can that effect the larger org.?

[WyoPastor]

Bro. Haney said only 27 left the UPCI and 128 were added so the several hundred that joined WPF were probably independents.

Wasn't that the numbers BEFORE Tulsa?

[R.D. Foster]

Wasn't that the numbers BEFORE Tulsa?

That's the last official word I have heard from Bro. Haney.

[rgcraig]

That's the last official word I have heard from Bro. Haney.

So we can take that number to the bank?

[ogatt]

Bro. Haney said only 27 left the UPCI and 128 were added so the several hundred that joined WPF were probably independents.


independant wpf'ers thats one of those oxy-morons aint it

[R.D. Foster]

independant wpf'ers thats one of those oxy-morons aint it


Not really, did you read their By-laws?

[R.D. Foster]

So we can take that number to the bank?

Well..............................?

[NW Pastor]

That's what I understand. But with 9500 UPCI licensed ministers, how can that effect the larger org.?

That all depends upon which "hundreds" left. Not all "ministers" are of equal caliber and effectiveness. I've known some that wouldn't even make a dependable layman in a good church, but they are deluded by someone into thinking they have a call to preach.

[George]

Bro. Haney said only 27 left the UPCI and 128 were added so the several hundred that joined WPF were probably independents.

R.D., you sound a little confused. Bro. Haney's letter was written before the end of 2007. It was only an assessment up to that date. Several hundred attended the WPF summit in Tulsa but they didn't all join. I believe the 72 total is close to reality.

[R.D. Foster]

That all depends upon which "hundreds" left. Not all "ministers" are of equal caliber and effectiveness. I've known some that wouldn't even make a dependable layman in a good church, but they are deluded by someone into thinking they have a call to preach.

So which type do you think left? And can a few hundred effect such a large org. as the UPCI?

[dizzyde]

The SS letter said they raised about $100k on Friday night. If they get another 72 like that they should be fine.

Cash offering or promises??? Because I know how those "promise" offerings turn out. Sad, but true.

[dizzyde]

That all depends upon which "hundreds" left. Not all "ministers" are of equal caliber and effectiveness. I've known some that wouldn't even make a dependable layman in a good church, but they are deluded by someone into thinking they have a call to preach.

:stirpot :stirpot

[Minty]

I am really confused! Are the WPFers leaving the UPC, or are they going to be both WPF and UPC? How can you tell how many have left the UPC when most of the general council members and two of the executive council members are still with the UPC (Nat Wilson and Crawford Coon). Only 9 out of the 50 some general council members have actually dropped out of the UPC. Haven't they had ample time to leave? What are they waiting for? Or are they staying? Just curious!

[Nahum]

That must have been one looonnnnnngggggg application for 6 guys to have to stay all weekend to go through 70 of them...
Yes, where is Steadfast to answer our questions?

[StMark]

I am really confused! Are the WPFers leaving the UPC, or are they going to be both WPF and UPC? How can you tell how many have left the UPC when most of the general council members and two of the executive council members are still with the UPC (Nat Wilson and Crawford Coon). Only 9 out of the 50 some general council members have actually dropped out of the UPC. Haven't they had ample time to leave? What are they waiting for? Or are they staying? Just curious!

I doubt anyone will remain in both - that would be too expensive.

[StMark]

Cash offering or promises??? Because I know how those "promise" offerings turn out. Sad, but true.


how do they turn out?

[Minty]

I thought that they would part with the UPC before they started recruiting members for WPF. I can't believe that two of their executive members and most of their general council have not dropped out of the UPC.

[StMark]

I thought that they would part with the UPC before they started recruiting members for WPF. I can't believe that two of their executive members and most of their general council have not dropped out of the UPC.

I believe that the month of January serves as a grace period for those who didn't pay their dues.

This month will tell the real story.

[dizzyde]

how do they turn out?

Some guys make big promises in public, but are not quite so generous when the time comes to pay. If they pay.

[R.D. Foster]

I thought that they would part with the UPC before they started recruiting members for WPF. I can't believe that two of their executive members and most of their general council have not dropped out of the UPC.

There is no requirement to drop out of another org. The UPC rule is that you cannot hold license or ordination with another org. Most of the men involved with WPF are there for 'like-minded' fellowship. There really is no threat to the UPC unless WEC decides to make it a threat.

[StMark]

I predict that the UPC will pass a rule that you cannot be apart of WPF and the UPC at the same time.could be wrong,but I know there are a lot of people pushing for this.

already(i was told )there was an employee of WEC that was fired because her husband joined WPF

[philjones]

wow you guys are a trip

ogatt is about as funny as a two headed puppy. His insipid attempts at humor are really just gross examples of immaturity! Not funny!:bemine

[AmazingGrace]

ogatt is about as funny as a two headed puppy. His insipid attempts at humor are really just gross examples of immaturity! Not funny!:bemine

Oh lord the meds are getting to me... I swore he said a 2 headed pimple ROFL!!!!!!!!!

Ok back to my corner!!!

[Pastor G]

ogatt is about as funny as a two headed puppy. His insipid attempts at humor are really just gross examples of immaturity! Not funny!:bemine

"Bitter, party of one, your table is ready...."

[philjones]

"Bitter, party of one, your table is ready...."

ROFL... now YOU are funny!:TulsaROCKS:

[Pastor G]

ROFL... now YOU are funny!:TulsaROCKS:

Phil, get up off the floor, your heart can't take it.....

[philjones]

Phil, get up off the floor, your heart can't take it.....

Wachu tawkin bout willis?

My heart is fine...now my knees are not so hot but the last nuclear stress test was passed with flying colors (don't tell ogatt since he doesn't believe in Drs)... so worry not thine head... all is well! :TulsaTime::happydance:toofunny

[rgcraig]

ogatt is about as funny as a two headed puppy. His insipid attempts at humor are really just gross examples of immaturity! Not funny!:bemine

Now Phil, where is your sense of humor?

[Minty]

One good reason for the WPF pastors to stay in the UPC (it would keep another UPC preacher from starting a church next door). I really respect Bro. Booker, Coon, Godair and Odom. They decided to leave the UPC and do WPF. God bless them in their endeavors. Hopefully, the rest of their group will do likewise. It's just baffling that some are taking their time to leave. If the UPC is so bad, why not get out and move on (of course with the right spirit). Why would Miles Young get out and Bro. Nat. Wilson stay in? Just curious...

[KarenJo]

One good reason for the WPF pastors to stay in the UPC (it would keep another UPC preacher from starting a church next door). I really respect Bro. Booker, Coon, Godair and Odom. They decided to leave the UPC and do WPF. God bless them in their endeavors. Hopefully, the rest of their group will do likewise. It's just baffling that some are taking their time to leave. If the UPC is so bad, why not get out and move on (of course with the right spirit). Why would Miles Young get out and Bro. Nat. Wilson stay in? Just curious...


Did I miss something, is Nate Wilson staying in?

[Minty]

He is still in at the present time. I'm not sure when or if he will leave. In my opinion, and its just my opinion you should be one or the other and not both.

[Sister Alvear]

See what the AMF has today...should be a lesson to all. They came out fighting...and went down fighting...
If the new group lives and learns from history maybe they will know what to and what not to do. I am not against in any way forming a new group for that will always happen however we must be very careful that we do not become bitter or tear down what God has built in the form of relationships and families.

[dizzyde]

He is still in at the present time. I'm not sure when or if he will leave. In my opinion, and its just my opinion you should be one or the other and not both.

My info is that he is not.

[Scooter]

He is officially gone as of a couple weeks ago.

[Joseph Miller]

He is officially gone as of a couple weeks ago.



If WPF is not giving license are these guys independant now or.....??????































:stirpot

[pelathais]

Steadfasts' or The Dean's report (I get them confused) was that the leaders had to schedule Sunday speakers to stay over and process all of the applications.

:TulsaNO:
He said that he had been told that. But according to his website, the lead coordinator was in his pulpit that very next Sunday. No "staying over" for him at least.

[rgcraig]

He said that he had been told that. But according to his website, the lead coordinator was in his pulpit that very next Sunday. No "staying over" for him at least.

Seems like his friends have told him wrongly a few times lately.

[pelathais]

My info is that he is not.

He is officially gone as of a couple weeks ago.
NW is still listed at https://wec.upci.org/ministers/ . I have no idea how long it takes to update that list, but they seem to get your name in the Forward pretty quickly.

[NW Pastor]

So which type do you think left? And can a few hundred effect such a large org. as the UPCI?

I have no way of knowing. Also, to be clear, I am not making a judgement as to the caliber of preachers joining the WPF. I just wanted to point out that simply by looking at numbers of applicants does not tell the whole story. Relying upon numbers alone, great or small, to make a point could be misleading.

72 ministers of high caliber joining the WPF could create a huge impact, while 300 ministers of mediocre caliber may not cause a ripple.

We will have to wait and see.

[dizzyde]

NW is still listed at https://wec.upci.org/ministers/ . I have no idea how long it takes to update that list, but they seem to get your name in the Forward pretty quickly.

It is a definite, the website must lag.

[Sunni]

Dizzy De is correct, Nate Wilson is no longer UPC.

The number 72 is totally fictional....they HAVE NOT realeased any numbers yet... The organizers are in agreement on this- no numbers have been released...

[NW Pastor]

Dizzy De is correct, Nate Wilson is no longer UPC.

The number 72 is totally fictional....they HAVE NOT realeased any numbers yet... The organizers are in agreement on this- no numbers have been released...

Why does everthing have to be a secret?

[Sunni]

Why does everthing have to be a secret?

So that you all can have fun 'speculating'!!

:happydance

[Rev]

So that you all can have fun 'speculating'!!

:happydance

Fun! They are mad and serious! :stirpot

:TulsaROCKS: :TulsaNO:

[Praxeas]

i was fixin to join till they wouldnt let me preach. I told them since we are against stuff lets lay our cards out on the table and get on with it.

if i cant hear it strong then i dont want to hear it. I wouldnt even let my young people go to tulsa...either of them.

60 dollars will buy a lot of why i do not have a television tracts
maybe they can get the bearded guy to take pictures of TVs for the tracts

[pelathais]

maybe they can get the bearded guy to take pictures of TVs for the tracts
"Mustache." He had a "nice mustache." http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[OfInterest]

I predict that the UPC will pass a rule that you cannot be apart of WPF and the UPC at the same time.could be wrong,but I know there are a lot of people pushing for this.

already(i was told )there was an employee of WEC that was fired because her husband joined WPF

That is not true.

[NW Pastor]

So that you all can have fun 'speculating'!!

:happydance

I can't see the fun in speculating when, and how impacting this split will be. Which families will be divided, which districts will be weakened and to what extent, which pastors will withdraw fellowship from sister churches of longstanding. That's like having the doctor withold revealing what kind of cancer is in your body, the fast-moving killing kind, or the slow-moving treatable form.

I see nothing fun or frivolous in any of this. There was a lot of pipe playing and dancing when the South seceeded, but more sober minds knew the end was not yet. You cannot divide a living organism without bloodshed.

[pelathais]

That is not true.
I agree. How would anybody even know who joined the WPF since the list has been kept a secret since Tulsa. And perusing the list of the "committees" do we find anyone who's wife was "fired" from WEC?

[Praxeas]

Why does everthing have to be a secret?
Because 72 sounds better than 13?

[Minty]

Nat Wilson is considered UPC until his name is officially removed.

[AmazingGrace]

As Dizzy said she has verified his name has been officially removed... the website has lag...

[George]

Nat Wilson is considered UPC until his name is officially removed.

But he told members of his congregation he was letting his license lapse so it is fair to assess he is no longer UPC.

[Sunni]

We couldn't get any real news, so why not have a little fun?

NWP, you said it yourself!!!:happydance

My point was TIC!


In fact, I do groan a bit every time I see false information posted and then see it dissected and analyzed... sometimes we just have to laugh- it beats crying!

[NW Pastor]

NWP, you said it yourself!!!:happydance

My point was TIC!


In fact, I do groan a bit every time I see false information posted and then see it dissected and analyzed... sometimes we just have to laugh- it beats crying!

As the old song says, "Sometimes we laugh together, sometimes we cry."

[embonpoint]

If this is not so please state what the real numbers are.

Disclaimer: I am NOT stating this as fact but rather asking the Question.

I heard from an official's wife and another pastor today that only 72 have joined WPF ?????

Now, if that is NOT true, I can assure you that is the word that is going around the UPC.

The numbers are obviously bogus. I could name 72 who have joined myself and I didn't go to Tulsa and am not a member.:ouch

Where is a reliable reporter like Thad when you need him?:toofunny

[pelathais]

The numbers are obviously bogus. I could name 72 who have joined myself and I didn't go to Tulsa and am not a member.:ouch

Where is a reliable reporter like Thad when you need him?:toofunny
Okay, name them for us. http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[embonpoint]

Okay, name them for us. http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Well you will have to figure a little bit out for yourself, but....

You could start with the 62 ministers named to the various commitees on the WPF website and then you need only 10 more. I could actually name names from that point, but would rather not, however I am quite sure that there are 10 more ministers working in the local churched of just the 6 executive council members. Not to mention their "sons in the Gospel." :TulsaTime:


Like I say, it sure makes ya miss the "accurate" reporting we used to get from Thad!! :blah

[dizzyde]

Well you will have to figure a little bit out for yourself, but....

You could start with the 62 ministers named to the various commitees on the WPF website and then you need only 10 more. I could actually name names from that point, but would rather not, however I am quite sure that there are 10 more ministers working in the local churched of just the 6 executive council members. Not to mention their "sons in the Gospel." :TulsaTime:


Like I say, it sure makes ya miss the "accurate" reporting we used to get from Thad!! :blah

Problem, at least one of the names on the website has not joined, and I don't think even went to Tulsa.

[embonpoint]

Problem, at least one of the names on the website has not joined, and I don't think even went to Tulsa.

So that means there are only 71? What is your point?

There are obviously more than 72 ministers signed up for the WPF. Whether the UPCI folks like it or not.

[dizzyde]

So that means there are only 71? What is your point?

There are obviously more than 72 ministers signed up for the WPF. Whether the UPCI folks like it or not.

My point is that you are making the assumption that the information on the website is 100% accurate. It would seem that is not the case.

[MissionsJD]

So that means there are only 71? What is your point?

There are obviously more than 72 ministers signed up for the WPF. Whether the UPCI folks like it or not.

Nothing is obvious with this group. I know for a fact at least three of the names on the website actually asked for their names to be removed from the list. They had never given permission for their names to be used and were quite upset that this happened.

What does that tell you about this group?

[embonpoint]

My point is that you are making the assumption that the information on the website is 100% accurate. It would seem that is not the case.

I think you assume what my assumptions are.:biggrin:

I don't assume that the site is 100% correct. Lets assume it is only 90% correct that means you only have to come up with another 16 or 17 names other than those listed, again a pretty safe assumption based on the churches of the 56 or so that would still be associated.

I do admit to making assumptions. Just not the one you assumed.:toofunny

[embonpoint]

Nothing is obvious with this group. I know for a fact at least three of the names on the website actually asked for their names to be removed from the list. They had never given permission for their names to be used and were quite upset that this happened.

What does that tell you about this group?

Which 3?

[NW Pastor]

Which 3?

Well, it's probably a secret, just like those who have joined.

[embonpoint]

Nothing is obvious with this group. I know for a fact at least three of the names on the website actually asked for their names to be removed from the list. They had never given permission for their names to be used and were quite upset that this happened.

What does that tell you about this group?

You tell me!

That they learned from sitting at the feet of the best? :bubble

[NW Pastor]

Maybe that's why we don't know who did join.

[NW Pastor]

You tell me!

That they learned from sitting at the feet of the best? :bubble

Exactly whose feet do the leadership of Tulsa sit at?

[embonpoint]

Well, it's probably a secret, just like those who have joined.

I know. Can you believe the audacity of this group. It has been 2 weeks since the meeting and they haven't published a directory yet. Haven't even posted names on the forums. :girlytantrum

Don't they know or care that the masses are waiting. :feedback

[embonpoint]

Exactly whose feet do the leadership of Tulsa sit at?

That was past tense.

[NW Pastor]

I know. Can you believe the audacity of this group. It has been 2 weeks since the meeting and they haven't published a directory yet. Haven't even posted names on the forums. :girlytantrum

Don't they know or care that the masses are waiting. :feedback

In the past they have been so quick to publicise positive info, I thought a list would be immediately forthcoming.

After all, they apparently had the names of some Council and Committee members published before some even knew for sure they would take part. One of the council members even said so on this forum.

Two weeks ought to be plenty of time.

[NW Pastor]

That was past tense.

Apparently.

[embonpoint]

Apparently.

But they did learn well?

[NW Pastor]

We don't have enough data to make an informed decision. But they are and have been great men in many ways.

[embonpoint]

Nothing is obvious with this group. I know for a fact at least three of the names on the website actually asked for their names to be removed from the list. They had never given permission for their names to be used and were quite upset that this happened.

What does that tell you about this group?

Tells me it must be gettin' kinda crowded there on the moral high ground. I mean with all these facts and names everyone has, but are never released, its gotta be crowded up there. You must be havin' to take numbers for your turn at the spotting scope.

Maybe they could raffle off turns at takin' potshots without data for SFC this year.

[MissionsJD]

Which 3?

I don't have their permission to post their names. They didn't ask for this negative publicity and posting thier names here would only add insult to injury.

Tell you what. When this list does come out, (assuming there will be one) compare the names that were on the pre Tulsa list, and which ones actually joined up. Better yet, check with some that were "on committees" and see if they actually joined WPF. That will at least let you narrow it down a little bit.

On second thought, that may not be a very good way to tell because I don't think many have joined up at all... sorry.

[NW Pastor]

Tells me it must be gettin' kinda crowded there on the moral high ground. I mean with all these facts and names everyone has, but are never released, its gotta be crowded up there. You must be havin' to take numbers for your turn at the spotting scope.

Maybe they could raffle off turns at takin' potshots without data for SFC this year.

Yeah, the moral high ground is getting to be a prime piece of real estate. The Tulsa folks seized it, and now us old, wornout, backslidden UPC'rs are crawling up the hill to build a fort right next to theirs.

I bet this really burns some of them up, others contaminating the land they claim.

Elbow room is getting tough to find!

[embonpoint]

I don't have their permission to post their names. They didn't ask for this negative publicity and posting thier names here would only add insult to injury.

Tell you what. When this list does come out, (assuming there will be one) compare the names that were on the pre Tulsa list, and which ones actually joined up. Better yet, check with some that were "on committees" and see if they actually joined WPF. That will at least let you narrow it down a little bit.

On second thought, that may not be a very good way to tell because I don't think many have joined up at all... sorry.

Of course it is all about protecting the nameless 3. That is why you brought it up.

Must be tough being so much more righteous than that self righteous WPF bunch.:rolleyes2

[embonpoint]

Yeah, the moral high ground is getting to be a prime piece of real estate. The Tulsa folks seized it, and now us old, wornout, backslidden UPC'rs are crawling up the hill to build a fort right next to theirs.

I bet this really burns some of them up, others contaminating the land they claim.

Elbow room is getting tough to find!

Oh there is plenty out here in GIB land.:happydance

You just have to watch for riccochets.

[dizzyde]

Well you will have to figure a little bit out for yourself, but....

You could start with the 62 ministers named to the various commitees on the WPF website and then you need only 10 more. I could actually name names from that point, but would rather not, however I am quite sure that there are 10 more ministers working in the local churched of just the 6 executive council members. Not to mention their "sons in the Gospel." :TulsaTime:


Like I say, it sure makes ya miss the "accurate" reporting we used to get from Thad!! :blah

My point is that you are making the assumption that the information on the website is 100% accurate. It would seem that is not the case.

I think you assume what my assumptions are.:biggrin:

I don't assume that the site is 100% correct. Lets assume it is only 90% correct that means you only have to come up with another 16 or 17 names other than those listed, again a pretty safe assumption based on the churches of the 56 or so that would still be associated.

I do admit to making assumptions. Just not the one you assumed.:toofunny

:hmmm :dunno :huh

[Mr. Steinway]

It seems to me that a forthcoming list of membership would be benificial, so other members would know exactly who to fellowship and who to blacklist! :)

[AUTHORgio]

well i know one thing i about got tv preached out of our church. I stood up last nite and told those morons that if they didnt put 20.00 apiece in the offering i was going to make them openly confess
to watching tv at shoneys after church.

i had a 60.00 dollar offering and 3 I.O.U.'s that said
' i will pay up next sunday."

You are in the wrong profession Ogatt. I have been reading your stuff and am crying from laughing so hard. You should be a comedian.

[AUTHORgio]

I predict that the UPC will pass a rule that you cannot be apart of WPF and the UPC at the same time.could be wrong,but I know there are a lot of people pushing for this.

already(i was told )there was an employee of WEC that was fired because her husband joined WPF

do I smell a lawsuit?

[Dan'D]

Nothing is obvious with this group. I know for a fact at least three of the names on the website actually asked for their names to be removed from the list. They had never given permission for their names to be used and were quite upset that this happened.

What does that tell you about this group?

You need to check your facts.

Dan'D

[Pastor G]

You need to check your facts.

Dan'D


Please note: no one knows anything about Tulsa, WPF or anyone on the flyer they sent out except Dandy... He is the authority!!! So no one mention anything unless Dandy authenticates it first....

[stmatthew]

I don't have their permission to post their names. They didn't ask for this negative publicity and posting thier names here would only add insult to injury.

Tell you what. When this list does come out, (assuming there will be one) compare the names that were on the pre Tulsa list, and which ones actually joined up. Better yet, check with some that were "on committees" and see if they actually joined WPF. That will at least let you narrow it down a little bit.

On second thought, that may not be a very good way to tell because I don't think many have joined up at all... sorry.

If you are not able to substantiate your claims of wrong doing, then your testamony is void of credibility. It has been stated plainly by the Tulsa group that they did in fact speak to each person on the list. Thus far, no one has been bold enough to come forward that was on the original list and state openly that they did not speak to them. Until that occurs, I will continue to give the Tulsa group the benefit of the doubt, and disbelieve all those that come saying "he said/she said".

[embonpoint]

Well you will have to figure a little bit out for yourself, but....

You could start with the 62 ministers named to the various commitees on the WPF website and then you need only 10 more. I could actually name names from that point, but would rather not, however I am quite sure that there are 10 more ministers working in the local churched of just the 6 executive council members. Not to mention their "sons in the Gospel." :TulsaTime:

Like I say, it sure makes ya miss the "accurate" reporting we used to get from Thad!! :blah

My point is that you are making the assumption that the information on the website is 100% accurate. It would seem that is not the case.

I think you assume what my assumptions are.:biggrin:

I don't assume that the site is 100% correct. Lets assume it is only 90% correct that means you only have to come up with another 16 or 17 names other than those listed, again a pretty safe assumption based on the churches of the 56 or so that would still be associated.

I do admit to making assumptions. Just not the one you assumed.:toofunny

:hmmm :dunno :huh

Sis. Dizzy,

I try to be careful on AFF as to what I post and what assumptions I make. This is only fair as I have been one questioning, even in this thread, the hearsay that is being used to convict the organizers of the WPF. The best bluff is always, no bluff.

The little exchange you I have been having is again a microcosm of the over all debate and rush to judgment based on what appears to be obvious facts. Many times on closer examination the facts are not exactly as they first appeared.

The missing fact in the above posts is that there are actually 63 different ministers names listed on the committees of the WPF not including any on the Ladies Committee.

My actual assumption was that the list might not be 100% accurate particularly the youth committee, thus the 62 number, but the thread was not about the accuracy of the website but the accuracy of only 72 joining.

Not trying to pick a fight and am in fact probably done with AFF.
God Bless

[dizzyde]

Sis. Dizzy,

I try to be careful on AFF as to what I post and what assumptions I make. This is only fair as I have been one questioning, even in this thread, the hearsay that is being used to convict the organizers of the WPF. The best bluff is always, no bluff.

The little exchange you I have been having is again a microcosm of the over all debate and rush to judgment based on what appears to be obvious facts. Many times on closer examination the facts are not exactly as they first appeared.

The missing fact in the above posts is that there are actually 63 different ministers names listed on the committees of the WPF not including any on the Ladies Committee.

My actual assumption was that the list might not be 100% accurate particularly the youth committee, thus the 62 number, but the thread was not about the accuracy of the website but the accuracy of only 72 joining.

Not trying to pick a fight and am in fact probably done with AFF.
God Bless

Bro./Sis.?

I certainly hope that it did not seem like I was trying to pick a fight, that was not my intention. One of my biggest struggles since joining AFF is learning how to have discussions without being able to hear the tones of voices. I am not a confrontational person by nature, and I have gotten more riled up on here than I would prefer on a few occasions.

I sincerely hope that nothing that I have said or done would cause you to leave here, if that is the case I apologize.

I understand the point that you were trying make, I think that my problem stemmed from the fact that I didn't realize you were looking at the bigger picture with your comments, while I was focusing on that one comment.

I really hope you don't leave AFF, especially not because of me!

[embonpoint]

Bro./Sis.?

I certainly hope that it did not seem like I was trying to pick a fight, that was not my intention. One of my biggest struggles since joining AFF is learning how to have discussions without being able to hear the tones of voices. I am not a confrontational person by nature, and I have gotten more riled up on here than I would prefer on a few occasions.

I sincerely hope that nothing that I have said or done would cause you to leave here, if that is the case I apologize.

I understand the point that you were trying make, I think that my problem stemmed from the fact that I didn't realize you were looking at the bigger picture with your comments, while I was focusing on that one comment.

I really hope you don't leave AFF, especially not because of me!

No it did not seem you were picking a fight. I am sorry for making it sound that way. You are not responsible for my decision. Our exchange has made me look at myself and realize that I am engaging unknown people in discussions that I would never feel comfortable doing in person and certainly not with members of another flock. It is my comfort level and ethics that is the issue. Not saying I will never postagain :) but not for some time and not in the same manner. Again may God bless you and yours.

[pelathais]

Well you will have to figure a little bit out for yourself, but....

You could start with the 62 ministers named to the various commitees on the WPF website and then you need only 10 more. I could actually name names from that point, but would rather not, however I am quite sure that there are 10 more ministers working in the local churched of just the 6 executive council members. Not to mention their "sons in the Gospel." :TulsaTime:


Like I say, it sure makes ya miss the "accurate" reporting we used to get from Thad!! :blah
Are you saying that they were being advertised as members of the WwPF before they ever joined? I was trusting that all the men on the committees had already joined before the meeting in Tulsa - thus their positions on the various committees.

So we still need 72 names. :blah

[Fireside]

Why does everthing have to be a secret?


This is just my own speculation--but they may be keeping the information private because they would like to try and postpone the horrendous backlash that might be brought to bear against joiners--at least for a while until things settle down.

Makes sense to me.

Right now, while emotions run high, the reaction might be a lot more violent than a couple of years down the road, when things have quieted down a little.

[MissionsJD]

If you are not able to substantiate your claims of wrong doing, then your testamony is void of credibility. It has been stated plainly by the Tulsa group that they did in fact speak to each person on the list. Thus far, no one has been bold enough to come forward that was on the original list and state openly that they did not speak to them. Until that occurs, I will continue to give the Tulsa group the benefit of the doubt, and disbelieve all those that come saying "he said/she said".

Time will tell. Naming names is an easy way to get the hearsay amped up even more. Just because I named a name would not make it validated because it is still he said/she said.

Suffice it to say that there is a reason this membership role is not coming out in a timely manner, because when it does it will not look like the Pre-Tulsa list. Right now, that is my opinion, when it actually happens, it will be fact.

It is interesting to hear them talk though. "It is an organization... It is not an organization." "We will not have leaders making decisions... we will have leaders making decisions." "I am not handing in my fellowship card... I have handed in my fellowship card."

What exactly is the WPF? We are sitting here debating whether they have members or not, if they have income, if they have a missions program... What is this all about anyway?

[MissionsJD]

You need to check your facts.

Dan'D

For you to question my fact, you must have facts of your own. Do you know for sure how many names on the Pre Tulsa list actually signed up? I believe the Tulsa group is not pleased by the response and is wondering how to proceed. (My opinion) I know this may be painful for you, and I hope it does not lead to bitterness because that is no fun. The whole deal is that this thing is dividing families and friends from way back. People are being pulled one way then another. This thing is a mess.

My facts do not come from others. They come from the mouths of these three men. I have heard of two more, but since I did not hear them myself, I don't know if this happened or not.

All of this speculation would be mute if they would just publicize a membership role. Take an moment and ask yourself why this has not happened yet. I don't know but have my thoughts on the subject.

[Fireside]

For you to question my fact, you must have facts of your own. Do you know for sure how many names on the Pre Tulsa list actually signed up? I believe the Tulsa group is not pleased by the response and is wondering how to proceed. (My opinion) I know this may be painful for you, and I hope it does not lead to bitterness because that is no fun. The whole deal is that this thing is dividing families and friends from way back. People are being pulled one way then another. This thing is a mess.

My facts do not come from others. They come from the mouths of these three men. I have heard of two more, but since I did not hear them myself, I don't know if this happened or not.

All of this speculation would be mute if they would just publicize a membership role. Take an moment and ask yourself why this has not happened yet. I don't know but have my thoughts on the subject.

All of this speculation would be mute if they would just publicize a membership role.

Riiiiiight. :)

Step right on into my parlor, said that spider to the fly.:girlyluv

Give us a list of folks we can put the bead on. :)

[pelathais]

Riiiiiight. :)

Step right on into my parlor, said that spider to the fly.:girlyluv

Give us a list of folks we can put the bead on. :)
I'm disappointed that such a calculating cynicism exists. "They" already have lots of names upon which to "put the bead on." But who's even been hassled?

The way it looks to me, the WwPF could send a truck to Hazelwood and load up desks and furniture and the UPC officials wouldn't even peep.

[tv1a]

If that is the case, I believe I predicted that. I believe I also predicted very few public ripples and a lot of ripples behind closed doors. It appeared to have the success of Woodstock II....

I understand that the Majority of those in attendance were independant and not UPC???????

[Fireside]

The report is that there were relatively few independents there. It was mostly UPC preachers.

The average independent isn't interested in joining anything.

[CC1]

If 1500 ministers attended I would expect at least a 10% conversion (pun intended) rate which would mean at least 150.

I really expect more in the 300-500 range at start up so it will be interesting to see if they publish any membership numbers soon.

I think with as big a prosle....er..."recruitment" effort as they made anything less than several hundred at startup would be a failure. Especially with as many established conservative names heading this thing up.

[stmatthew]

If 1500 ministers attended I would expect at least a 10% conversion (pun intended) rate which would mean at least 150.

I really expect more in the 300-500 range at start up so it will be interesting to see if they publish any membership numbers soon.

I think with as big a prosle....er..."recruitment" effort as they made anything less than several hundred at startup would be a failure. Especially with as many established conservative names heading this thing up.


My understanding is that the Tulsa event was simply an infommercial :D. They did have some join there, but the actual deal for joining is supposed to be in Branson.

[CC1]

My understanding is that the Tulsa event was simply an infommercial :D. They did have some join there, but the actual deal for joining is supposed to be in Branson.

This makes sense but I would have thought the pent up desire in all those unhappy conservatives would have made for a fast start in OK.

I do think that Coonskinner's point that a lot of conservatives are independent is correct and I would not be surprised if some of the unhappy conservative UPCers that the WWPF hoped to recruit end up leaving the UPC but to just become independent rather than joining the WWPF. Should be interesting to see what happens.

[tv1a]

The reoprts I've read said a number were independents in attendance. Of course I have to consider the source.The report is that there were relatively few independents there. It was mostly UPC preachers.

The average independent isn't interested in joining anything.

[stmatthew]

This makes sense but I would have thought the pent up desire in all those unhappy conservatives would have made for a fast start in OK.

I do think that Coonskinner's point that a lot of conservatives are independent is correct and I would not be surprised if some of the unhappy conservative UPCers that the WWPF hoped to recruit end up leaving the UPC but to just become independent rather than joining the WWPF. Should be interesting to see what happens.

I think quite a few of those that left the UPC ARE staying independent. And some of those that were AMF have went independent as well. Organization is on its way out for many conservatives. They have in place the AMC for a conference to fellowship, and the IAM to send their mission offerings through. Most of them already have a network of fellowship. They simply do not need politics any more.

[ogatt]

I think quite a few of those that left the UPC ARE staying independent. And some of those that were AMF have went independent as well. Organization is on its way out for many conservatives. They have in place the AMC for a conference to fellowship, and the IAM to send their mission offerings through. Most of them already have a network of fellowship. They simply do not need politics any more.

im independant and the only reason i would a went to tulsa was because thats the only way i could see the preaching since i dont believe in video pictures. it would be cheaper to go and buy a video machine and watch that jake feller preach if i was a backslid heathern.

i aint goin to branson tho. that place is a den of iniquity, not to mention a rippoff joint. i see comedy that good in my church.
The only thing that intersts me is that titanic thing. maybe i could get some new sermons about sinking ships and judgement.

[ogatt]

maybe some of them wpf liberals will go visit that titanic thing.

[ogatt]

does the word "sinking ship" mean anything?

[Felicity]

I think quite a few of those that left the UPC ARE staying independent. And some of those that were AMF have went independent as well. Organization is on its way out for many conservatives. They have in place the AMC for a conference to fellowship, and the IAM to send their mission offerings through. Most of them already have a network of fellowship. They simply do not need politics any more.There can be good reasons for deciding to not take credentials out with an organization or a particular fellowship. Although we wouldn't ever consider ourselves to be the lone ranger type, there are some considerations that might give way to deciding to not join up with an organization per se.

Thought the day would never come when I'd make that statement, but sometimes circumstances alter cases.

[CC1]

There can be good reasons for deciding to not take credentials out with an organization or a particular fellowship. Although we wouldn't ever consider ourselves to be the lone ranger type, there are some considerations that might give way to deciding to not join up with an organization per se.

Thought the day would never come when I'd make that statement, but sometimes circumstances alter cases.

Does this mean there has been some bumps in the road to rejoining the Mothership?:happydance:toofunny

[RevBuddy]

I think quite a few of those that left the UPC ARE staying independent. And some of those that were AMF have went independent as well. Organization is on its way out for many conservatives. They have in place the AMC for a conference to fellowship, and the IAM to send their mission offerings through. Most of them already have a network of fellowship. They simply do not need politics any more.

STM...by their very nature, UC's are independent thinkers...they think outside the box (and the bun)... :stirpot

...they think so much outside, that sometimes they think outside the book... :stirpot :happydance :toofunny

[Fireside]

STM...by their very nature, UC's are independent thinkers...they think outside the box (and the bun)... :stirpot

...they think so much outside, that sometimes they think outside the book... :stirpot :happydance :toofunny

I'd be interested in hearing you expound on the nature of the conservative and his thought process.

How did it develop?

What inherent traits draw men in that direction?

(Other than the obvious...being right with God) ;)

[CC1]

I'd be interested in hearing you expound on the nature of the conservative and his thought process.

How did it develop?

What inherent traits draw men in that direction?
(Other than the obvious...being right with God) ;)

*Fell out of their baby high chairs often while young.
*Loud noises from gunshots while coonhunting has caused mild concussions.
*Too tight blue jean overalls can cut off circulation and cause aggressive and independent behaviour.

[Fireside]

*Fell out of their baby high chairs often while young.
*Loud noises from gunshots while coonhunting has caused mild concussions.
*Too tight blue jean overalls can cut off circulation and cause aggressive and independent behaviour.



LOL!

My friend, you have a knack for making me laugh.:)

[Fireside]

PS I have always worn my overalls real loose.

[Straightline]

Copied from a Blog:

This past weekend I spoke with one of the Tulsa "high-ups". I inquired as to the number of ministers that actually signed up with WPF while at the Apostolic Summit at Tulsa, and if I could post it on my blog. He gave me permission to make this information public. "Over 225 ministers signed up to be apart of WPF while at Tulsa, and more have been signing up every day since then."


The Way of The Serpent
cannot endure a
Straightline

[Felicity]

Does this mean there has been some bumps in the road to rejoining the Mothership?:happydance:toofunnyNow, did I say that CC? No, I did not. :p :D

[CC1]

LOL!

My friend, you have a knack for making me laugh.:)

Good! That was my intention. Hope all is well and Lady Coonskinner is keeping you in line.

[CC1]

Now, did I say that CC? No, I did not. :p :D

LOL!!! I was just checking to see if you were reading. You are no fun tonight. You were supposed to get mad and post something smarty. Not smiley faces!!!!

[Felicity]

LOL!!! I was just checking to see if you were reading. You are no fun tonight. You were supposed to get mad and post something smarty. Not smiley faces!!!!Sorry to disappoint you! :razz



:happydance

[Whole Hearted]

Copied from a Blog:

This past weekend I spoke with one of the Tulsa "high-ups". I inquired as to the number of ministers that actually signed up with WPF while at the Apostolic Summit at Tulsa, and if I could post it on my blog. He gave me permission to make this information public. "Over 225 ministers signed up to be apart of WPF while at Tulsa, and more have been signing up every day since then."


The Way of The Serpent
cannot endure a
Straightline

:TulsaROCKS:

[Pastor Keith]

Copied from a Blog:

This past weekend I spoke with one of the Tulsa "high-ups". I inquired as to the number of ministers that actually signed up with WPF while at the Apostolic Summit at Tulsa, and if I could post it on my blog. He gave me permission to make this information public. "Over 225 ministers signed up to be apart of WPF while at Tulsa, and more have been signing up every day since then."


The Way of The Serpent
cannot endure a
Straightline

I guess I never got this straight since I was in India when the conference took place, those 225 are they required to leave the UPC? did leave the UPC? or will be members of both groups?

Curious minds want to know.

[stmatthew]

I guess I never got this straight since I was in India when the conference took place, those 225 are they required to leave the UPC? did leave the UPC? or will be members of both groups?

Curious minds want to know.

My understanding is, as of right now they can hold both a fellowship card with the WPF and a license with the UPCI. The rumor is that the UPCI may consider making them make a choice between the two. I personally am figuring that most will drop their UPCI license. I know I would not pay for both.

[CC1]

My understanding is, as of right now they can hold both a fellowship card with the WPF and a license with the UPCI. The rumor is that the UPCI may consider making them make a choice between the two. I personally am figuring that most will drop their UPCI license. I know I would not pay for both.

I thought the UPC did not allow dual citizenship. I could be wrong though. According to my wife I have been wrong before.

[S.D. Pullen]

WHATS IT MATTER???? It is evident that most of you guys did not and will not join, so whats the big deal if 72 or 772 joined. You know these forums are becoming alot like gossip stations. I preach against gossip at my local church. It seems to me some of you may be a little worried about what actually happens in Tulsa. Just for your information I did go to Tulsa and I did Join. I do not know how many more joined for sure neither do I care. Some of you are letting out some concerns in your post about the number of Men who may have joined the WPF. I think the reason you are so caught up on how many may have joined is not because you actually care but in Alabama we would say " YOU ARE SIMPLY NOSEY" So lets go back to what forums are supposed to be, and get off the Wagon of Gossip. But while you are doing so Look out cause it is alot bigger than you think! the numbers on this thread are way low, don't you wish they would just go ahead and post the number, but then what would you guys do with your time, if you knew? cause you would not evidently have anything to talk about. I was UPC for years and have alot of friends who are still UPC. They UPC leadership would be ashamed of some of you, the way you claim to be a part of them but are so soon to open your mouth and say things about some of the Greatest Men of God ever. The WPF has been very clear it will not put up with any type of hate groups. I wished we all could have that standard.

[KarenJo]

WHATS IT MATTER???? It is evident that most of you guys did not and will not join, so whats the big deal if 72 or 772 joined. You know these forums are becoming alot like gossip stations. I preach against gossip at my local church. It seems to me some of you may be a little worried about what actually happens in Tulsa. Just for your information I did go to Tulsa and I did Join. I do not know how many more joined for sure neither do I care. Some of you are letting out some concerns in your post about the number of Men who may have joined the WPF. I think the reason you are so caught up on how many may have joined is not because you actually care but in Alabama we would say " YOU ARE SIMPLY NOSEY" So lets go back to what forums are supposed to be, and get off the Wagon of Gossip. But while you are doing so Look out cause it is alot bigger than you think! the numbers on this thread are way low, don't you wish they would just go ahead and post the number, but then what would you guys do with your time, if you knew? cause you would not evidently have anything to talk about. I was UPC for years and have alot of friends who are still UPC. They UPC leadership would be ashamed of some of you, the way you claim to be a part of them but are so soon to open your mouth and say things about some of the Greatest Men of God ever. The WPF has been very clear it will not put up with any type of hate groups. I wished we all could have that standard.


There is a BIG difference between Gossip and laying out the facts...

[CC1]

WHATS IT MATTER???? It is evident that most of you guys did not and will not join, so whats the big deal if 72 or 772 joined. You know these forums are becoming alot like gossip stations. I preach against gossip at my local church. It seems to me some of you may be a little worried about what actually happens in Tulsa. Just for your information I did go to Tulsa and I did Join. I do not know how many more joined for sure neither do I care. Some of you are letting out some concerns in your post about the number of Men who may have joined the WPF. I think the reason you are so caught up on how many may have joined is not because you actually care but in Alabama we would say " YOU ARE SIMPLY NOSEY" So lets go back to what forums are supposed to be, and get off the Wagon of Gossip. But while you are doing so Look out cause it is alot bigger than you think! the numbers on this thread are way low, don't you wish they would just go ahead and post the number, but then what would you guys do with your time, if you knew? cause you would not evidently have anything to talk about. I was UPC for years and have alot of friends who are still UPC. They UPC leadership would be ashamed of some of you, the way you claim to be a part of them but are so soon to open your mouth and say things about some of the Greatest Men of God ever. The WPF has been very clear it will not put up with any type of hate groups. I wished we all could have that standard.

Hello Mr. High and Mighty. Nice of you to feebly attempt to put an entire forum in its place with your first post.

Obviously you do not understand what a forum is. Particularly this one. AFF is a place to discuss matters pertaining to Oneness Pentecost. Tulsa is definitely one of the biggest things to happen to OP along with the TV resolution.

To expect people not to discuss the WWPF, how many have joined, how successful or unsuccessful it's recruitment efforts were is just silly.

Of course you could just be "Pullen" our collective leg.

[Monkeyman]

WHATS IT MATTER???? It is evident that most of you guys did not and will not join, so whats the big deal if 72 or 772 joined. You know these forums are becoming alot like gossip stations. I preach against gossip at my local church. It seems to me some of you may be a little worried about what actually happens in Tulsa. Just for your information I did go to Tulsa and I did Join. I do not know how many more joined for sure neither do I care. Some of you are letting out some concerns in your post about the number of Men who may have joined the WPF. I think the reason you are so caught up on how many may have joined is not because you actually care but in Alabama we would say " YOU ARE SIMPLY NOSEY" So lets go back to what forums are supposed to be, and get off the Wagon of Gossip. But while you are doing so Look out cause it is alot bigger than you think! the numbers on this thread are way low, don't you wish they would just go ahead and post the number, but then what would you guys do with your time, if you knew? cause you would not evidently have anything to talk about. I was UPC for years and have alot of friends who are still UPC. They UPC leadership would be ashamed of some of you, the way you claim to be a part of them but are so soon to open your mouth and say things about some of the Greatest Men of God ever. The WPF has been very clear it will not put up with any type of hate groups. I wished we all could have that standard.I don't agree with they way they did things but I agree they have a right to leave. I do not think these are bad men, I think they are great men...having said that, you say Greatest Men of God EVER???? Really? Like in the past 30 years or EVER??? Thats a mouthful bro, and of course, yes, you are entitled to your opinion!

[dizzyde]

I don't agree with they way they did things but I agree they have a right to leave. I do not think these are bad men, I think they are great men...having said that, you say Greatest Men of God EVER???? Really? Like in the past 30 years or EVER??? Thats a mouthful bro, and of course, yes, you are entitled to your opinion!

My thoughts exactly!! :highfive

[KarenJo]

I don't agree with they way they did things but I agree they have a right to leave. I do not think these are bad men, I think they are great men...having said that, you say Greatest Men of God EVER???? Really? Like in the past 30 years or EVER??? Thats a mouthful bro, and of course, yes, you are entitled to your opinion!



AMEN!

[Monkeyman]

Greater than those nameless preachers who have died for this cause, greater than missionaries who give up comforts, nameless preachers in inner cities that face things we will NEVER know...that was one weird post man. And bro...the Head Cheese of UPC knows me, is proud of me, and not ashamed of me! *I feel like NYLP right now, heeeeeeeeeeee*

[Weary Pilgrim]

WHATS IT MATTER???? It is evident that most of you guys did not and will not join, so whats the big deal if 72 or 772 joined. You know these forums are becoming alot like gossip stations. I preach against gossip at my local church. It seems to me some of you may be a little worried about what actually happens in Tulsa. Just for your information I did go to Tulsa and I did Join. I do not know how many more joined for sure neither do I care. Some of you are letting out some concerns in your post about the number of Men who may have joined the WPF. I think the reason you are so caught up on how many may have joined is not because you actually care but in Alabama we would say " YOU ARE SIMPLY NOSEY" So lets go back to what forums are supposed to be, and get off the Wagon of Gossip. But while you are doing so Look out cause it is alot bigger than you think! the numbers on this thread are way low, don't you wish they would just go ahead and post the number, but then what would you guys do with your time, if you knew? cause you would not evidently have anything to talk about. I was UPC for years and have alot of friends who are still UPC. They UPC leadership would be ashamed of some of you, the way you claim to be a part of them but are so soon to open your mouth and say things about some of the Greatest Men of God ever. The WPF has been very clear it will not put up with any type of hate groups. I wished we all could have that standard.


Why are you here reading the Gossip? Why aren't you home reading your bible?



.

[rgcraig]

WHATS IT MATTER???? It is evident that most of you guys did not and will not join, so whats the big deal if 72 or 772 joined. You know these forums are becoming alot like gossip stations. I preach against gossip at my local church. It seems to me some of you may be a little worried about what actually happens in Tulsa. Just for your information I did go to Tulsa and I did Join. I do not know how many more joined for sure neither do I care. Some of you are letting out some concerns in your post about the number of Men who may have joined the WPF. I think the reason you are so caught up on how many may have joined is not because you actually care but in Alabama we would say " YOU ARE SIMPLY NOSEY" So lets go back to what forums are supposed to be, and get off the Wagon of Gossip. But while you are doing so Look out cause it is alot bigger than you think! the numbers on this thread are way low, don't you wish they would just go ahead and post the number, but then what would you guys do with your time, if you knew? cause you would not evidently have anything to talk about. I was UPC for years and have alot of friends who are still UPC. They UPC leadership would be ashamed of some of you, the way you claim to be a part of them but are so soon to open your mouth and say things about some of the Greatest Men of God ever. The WPF has been very clear it will not put up with any type of hate groups. I wished we all could have that standard.

Feel better?

[Monkeyman]

Somebody call the Waaaahmbulance for this guy, sheesh!

[rgcraig]

Somebody call the Waaaahmbulance for this guy, sheesh!

Think he'd like a little cheese with that whine?

[RevDWW]

Sometimes silence is a great answer............


Sometimes if you ignore folks they will just go away........



Sometimes I just don't care who belongs to what........:happydance

[TRIPLE E]

Think he'd like a little cheese with that whine?

If he does somebody please get him some and quick!

[tv1a]

I don't know if they would be considered the greatest men of God in the past 30 minutes let alone the past 30 years.

I don't agree with they way they did things but I agree they have a right to leave. I do not think these are bad men, I think they are great men...having said that, you say Greatest Men of God EVER???? Really? Like in the past 30 years or EVER??? Thats a mouthful bro, and of course, yes, you are entitled to your opinion!

[Joseph Miller]

WHATS IT MATTER???? It is evident that most of you guys did not and will not join, so whats the big deal if 72 or 772 joined. You know these forums are becoming alot like gossip stations. I preach against gossip at my local church. It seems to me some of you may be a little worried about what actually happens in Tulsa. Just for your information I did go to Tulsa and I did Join. I do not know how many more joined for sure neither do I care. Some of you are letting out some concerns in your post about the number of Men who may have joined the WPF. I think the reason you are so caught up on how many may have joined is not because you actually care but in Alabama we would say " YOU ARE SIMPLY NOSEY" So lets go back to what forums are supposed to be, and get off the Wagon of Gossip. But while you are doing so Look out cause it is alot bigger than you think! the numbers on this thread are way low, don't you wish they would just go ahead and post the number, but then what would you guys do with your time, if you knew? cause you would not evidently have anything to talk about. I was UPC for years and have alot of friends who are still UPC. They UPC leadership would be ashamed of some of you, the way you claim to be a part of them but are so soon to open your mouth and say things about some of the Greatest Men of God ever. The WPF has been very clear it will not put up with any type of hate groups. I wished we all could have that standard.


glad ya got that off ya chest

[NW Pastor]

glad ya got that off ya chest

Likewise. Man, I can't understand the dismissiveness of the Tulsa crowd concerning the number of preachers that joined the WPF or left the UPCI (which will be one and the same). Like it won't make the slightest difference to the rest of the fellowship if 10, 100, 1000, or 10,000 preachers choose to take their ball and bat and go home. WE ALL HAVE A VESTED INTEREST IN THIS ORGANIZATION! It is not gossip to contemplate the impact upon us all based upon the decisions of our brethren.

I will freely admit there are some on this forum who view all the hubub with sadistic glee, but for many it is a tradgedy in motion. We are concerned. I suppose that is unbiblical also.

[PocatelloApostolic]

WHATS IT MATTER???? It is evident that most of you guys did not and will not join, so whats the big deal if 72 or 772 joined. You know these forums are becoming alot like gossip stations. I preach against gossip at my local church. It seems to me some of you may be a little worried about what actually happens in Tulsa. Just for your information I did go to Tulsa and I did Join. I do not know how many more joined for sure neither do I care. Some of you are letting out some concerns in your post about the number of Men who may have joined the WPF. I think the reason you are so caught up on how many may have joined is not because you actually care but in Alabama we would say " YOU ARE SIMPLY NOSEY" So lets go back to what forums are supposed to be, and get off the Wagon of Gossip. But while you are doing so Look out cause it is alot bigger than you think! the numbers on this thread are way low, don't you wish they would just go ahead and post the number, but then what would you guys do with your time, if you knew? cause you would not evidently have anything to talk about. I was UPC for years and have alot of friends who are still UPC. They UPC leadership would be ashamed of some of you, the way you claim to be a part of them but are so soon to open your mouth and say things about some of the Greatest Men of God ever. The WPF has been very clear it will not put up with any type of hate groups. I wished we all could have that standard.

The fact that this statement would upset some folks only goes to show where they stand spiritually! Lets go on to something more uplifting folks!!

[CC1]

The fact that this statement would upset some folks only goes to show where they stand spiritually! Lets go on to something more uplifting folks!!


Gotta love this classic post also. Apparently anytime anybody takes exception to a post that means that post was exactly on the money.

What hogwash. This is the typical pretzel logic too many people use to justify their illogical and unbiblical positoins.

C'mon PiccadelloeclecticApostolic, do you REALLY mean it that anytime people obejct to a post or disagree with it that validates the post? I sure hope you are kidding because if you are not then think about what your philosophy the next time you respond to a post you differ with - by your own theory you will be wrong and the poster correct.

[dizzyde]

WHATS IT MATTER???? It is evident that most of you guys did not and will not join, so whats the big deal if 72 or 772 joined. You know these forums are becoming alot like gossip stations. I preach against gossip at my local church. It seems to me some of you may be a little worried about what actually happens in Tulsa. Just for your information I did go to Tulsa and I did Join. I do not know how many more joined for sure neither do I care. Some of you are letting out some concerns in your post about the number of Men who may have joined the WPF. I think the reason you are so caught up on how many may have joined is not because you actually care but in Alabama we would say " YOU ARE SIMPLY NOSEY" So lets go back to what forums are supposed to be, and get off the Wagon of Gossip. But while you are doing so Look out cause it is alot bigger than you think! the numbers on this thread are way low, don't you wish they would just go ahead and post the number, but then what would you guys do with your time, if you knew? cause you would not evidently have anything to talk about. I was UPC for years and have alot of friends who are still UPC. They UPC leadership would be ashamed of some of you, the way you claim to be a part of them but are so soon to open your mouth and say things about some of the Greatest Men of God ever. The WPF has been very clear it will not put up with any type of hate groups. I wished we all could have that standard.

The fact that this statement would upset some folks only goes to show where they stand spiritually! Lets go on to something more uplifting folks!!

Yes, you are correct, there was absolutely nothing in this post for anyone to get offended over, or to have any kind of negative response to. It was just a loving, kind and Godly post, full of meaningful, uplifting intellegence.... :hmmm :nah :crazy
:pullhair

[PocatelloApostolic]

Gotta love this classic post also. Apparently anytime anybody takes exception to a post that means that post was exactly on the money.

What hogwash. This is the typical pretzel logic too many people use to justify their illogical and unbiblical positoins.

C'mon PiccadelloeclecticApostolic, do you REALLY mean it that anytime people obejct to a post or disagree with it that validates the post? I sure hope you are kidding because if you are not then think about what your philosophy the next time you respond to a post you differ with - by your own theory you will be wrong and the poster correct.

I had and still have a right to respond BECAUSE I WAS AT TULSA! I saw, heard, and felt the spirit of the men present. There was also a great moving of the Holy Ghost! Regardless of what anyone thinks, to me, that signified the approval of God to all. And if God be for it, you, AFF, UPC, or anyother nay-sayer are foolish to speak against it. Only God and time will reveal the true intents of everyone's heart. So, as I said before, LETS GO ON WITH THE WORK OF GOD!! Amen??

[Timmy]

I had and still have a right to respond BECAUSE I WAS AT TULSA! I saw, heard, and felt the spirit of the men present. There was also a great moving of the Holy Ghost! Regardless of what anyone thinks, to me, that signified the approval of God to all. And if God be for it, you, AFF, UPC, or anyother nay-sayer are foolish to speak against it. Only God and time will reveal the true intents of everyone's heart. So, as I said before, LETS GO ON WITH THE WORK OF GOD!! Amen??

Was the Browsnville revival a great moving of the HG? Are there great moves of the HG at Benny Hinn crusades? How can you tell the real thing from fake (if there is such a thing)?

[Whole Hearted]

I had and still have a right to respond BECAUSE I WAS AT TULSA! I saw, heard, and felt the spirit of the men present. There was also a great moving of the Holy Ghost! Regardless of what anyone thinks, to me, that signified the approval of God to all. And if God be for it, you, AFF, UPC, or anyother nay-sayer are foolish to speak against it. Only God and time will reveal the true intents of everyone's heart. So, as I said before, LETS GO ON WITH THE WORK OF GOD!! Amen??

AMEN:TulsaROCKS::TulsaROCKS::TulsaROCKS:

[Thinking]

There was a powerful move of God in the general conference at Tampa...some say one of the best general conferences in many years. Did that signify God's approval on the United Pentecostal Church?

[Mr. Steinway]

There was a powerful move of God in the general conference at Tampa...some say one of the best general conferences in many years. Did that signify God's approval on the United Pentecostal Church?

Here is a thread that was dedicated to talking about God's Approval.

God's Approval (http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=11859)

[PocatelloApostolic]

Was the Browsnville revival a great moving of the HG? Are there great moves of the HG at Benny Hinn crusades? How can you tell the real thing from fake (if there is such a thing)?

Jesus said, "By their fruits shall ye know them." When I see men that are trying their best to stand for truth, righteousness, and holiness(inside and outside) and the presence of God moves, then yes, I take that as the approval of God upon a situation. However, when you visit meetings where you know and SEE that people are not producing the right kind of fruit, I question the spirit I feel. There is also another spirit that LOVES to mask as the spirit of God. But those who have got the REAL Holy Ghost can tell the difference between the two!

[Nahum]

Here we go again. :tantrum

I so appreciate those among us who really think we are so ignorant as to buy the absolute pack-o-l...ahem...I mean purposefully erroneous reports that they post.

Ahhhhh, it seems like only yesterday that I was being told that the 2006 meeting in Houston wasn't about a new org.

And then there were widespread claims that those fine, fine, fine upstanding purveyors of ethics and truth in charge of the Tulsa meeting had no intention of starting an org.

And now we are told that even though these same super-ethical men have organized, given their "fellowship" a name, formatted a charter, incorporated as a 501c3a and mapped a "better" future than the rest of us ever dreamed - THEY ARE STILL MOST HIGH, MOST HOLY, and MOST ETHICAL.

To which I say....um....whatever dude.

They have medication for that kind of thinking.

[dizzyde]

Jesus said, "By their fruits shall ye know them." When I see men that are trying their best to stand for truth, righteousness, and holiness(inside and outside) and the presence of God moves, then yes, I take that as the approval of God upon a situation. However, when you visit meetings where you know and SEE that people are not producing the right kind of fruit, I question the spirit I feel. There is also another spirit that LOVES to mask as the spirit of God. But those who have got the REAL Holy Ghost can tell the difference between the two!

And guess who get to decide who has the REAL Holy Ghost?? :girlytantrum

[stmatthew]

Here we go again. :tantrum

I so appreciate those among us who really think we are so ignorant as to buy the absolute pack-o-l...ahem...I mean purposefully erroneous reports that they post.

Ahhhhh, it seems like only yesterday that I was being told that the 2006 meeting in Houston wasn't about a new org.

And then there were widespread claims that those fine, fine, fine upstanding purveyors of ethics and truth in charge of the Tulsa meeting had no intention of starting an org.

And now we are told that even though these same super-ethical men have organized, given their "fellowship" a name, formatted a charter, incorporated as a 501c3a and mapped a "better" future than the rest of us ever dreamed - THEY ARE STILL MOST HIGH, MOST HOLY, and MOST ETHICAL.

To which I say....um....whatever dude.

They have medication for that kind of thinking.

So I assume you consider AWCF to be an organization??

[bishoph]

So I assume you consider AWCF to be an organization??

St. Matt, you ought to know by now that common sense and sound reasoning are rare commodities with regard to this debate. It seems to me that few (on both sides) are willing to be unbiased in their assessment of this situation.

[NW Pastor]

So I assume you consider AWCF to be an organization??

I'm not overly familiar with the AWCF particulars. Do its leaders and/or members hold credentials with the UPCI? Or is this a collection of independent apostolics?

[bishoph]

I'm not overly familiar with the AWCF particulars. Do its leaders and/or members hold credentials with the UPCI? Or is this a collection of independent apostolics?

The AWCF is a "fellowship" that does not issue licenses or credentials, it does have limited departments such as youth and missions, and the basis of its formation was that one could retain membership in their respective organization, yet belong to a wider "fellowship." The AWCF boasts many UPCI members.

[NW Pastor]

The AWCF is a "fellowship" that does not issue licenses or credentials, it does have limited departments such as youth and missions, and the basis of its formation was that one could retain membership in their respective organization, yet belong to a wider "fellowship." The AWCF boasts many UPCI members.

Thanks for the response. But perhaps you did not understand my complete question, or I was unclear.

Are the leaders of the AWCF part of the UPCI? My reason for asking is simple. The leaders of the WPF have or soon will be handing in their credentials. Also, according to the WPF Articles of Faith, the Executive Chairman if the WPF cannot belong to any other organization. This doesn't appear very inclusive as the others have been. It appears to border on exclutionary.

Although I am unfamiliar with the intricacies of the AWCF and other "fellowships" acceptible to the UPCI in the past (such as Pentecom and others), I would be surprised if they were structured any way similar.

To compare this new "fellowship" to them would seem to be comparing apples and oranges. I just want to define the terms so we can have a fruitful discussion.

[tv1a]

With the proven lies and inaccuracies from the World Pharisee Federation, I find it difficult to beleive the Tulsa Tango was a God sanction event.

Jesus said, "By their fruits shall ye know them." When I see men that are trying their best to stand for truth, righteousness, and holiness(inside and outside) and the presence of God moves, then yes, I take that as the approval of God upon a situation. However, when you visit meetings where you know and SEE that people are not producing the right kind of fruit, I question the spirit I feel. There is also another spirit that LOVES to mask as the spirit of God. But those who have got the REAL Holy Ghost can tell the difference between the two!

[Nahum]

Here we go again. :tantrum

I so appreciate those among us who really think we are so ignorant as to buy the absolute pack-o-l...ahem...I mean purposefully erroneous reports that they post.

Ahhhhh, it seems like only yesterday that I was being told that the 2006 meeting in Houston wasn't about a new org.

And then there were widespread claims that those fine, fine, fine upstanding purveyors of ethics and truth in charge of the Tulsa meeting had no intention of starting an org.

And now we are told that even though these same super-ethical men have organized, given their "fellowship" a name, formatted a charter, incorporated as a 501c3a and mapped a "better" future than the rest of us ever dreamed - THEY ARE STILL MOST HIGH, MOST HOLY, and MOST ETHICAL.

To which I say....um....whatever dude.

They have medication for that kind of thinking.

So I assume you consider AWCF to be an organization??

It absolutely is an organization.

By both definition and practice.

[stmatthew]

It absolutely is an organization.

By both definition and practice.

I think technically they all are, because they are organized. BUT most understand that the definition of an organization would include a licensing of the constituency. Since neither the AWCF, nor the WPF issue licenses, most will consider them a fellowship, and not a "Full-fledged Organization".


Technically, yes.

[Nahum]

I think technically they all are, because they are organized. BUT most understand that the definition of an organization would include a licensing of the constituency. Since neither the AWCF, nor the WPF issue licenses, most will consider them a fellowship, and not a "Full-fledged Organization".


Technically, yes.

It concerns me that the WPF seems to have a different mission.

[stmatthew]

It concerns me that the WPF seems to have a different mission.

Since I have not read anything on them in a while other than what has been posted here, I have no idea what their mission is.

[Jekyll]

It concerns me that the WPF seems to have a different mission.
And it concerns me that the sun might be blue at noon tomorrow...

Meritless concerns abound.

[Nahum]

And it concerns me that the sun might be blue at noon tomorrow...

Meritless concerns abound.

Meritless may be correct, cause other than the fun I have from poking some of 'em in the eye every now and agin, I couldn't give a flyin' fajita what they do.

I am learning not to waste time on unethical, dishonest folk.

Notice I said "learning", not that I "have learned.":toofunny

[PocatelloApostolic]

With the "?PROVEN LIES?" and inaccuracies from the World Pharisee Federation, I find it difficult to beleive the Tulsa Tango was a God sanction event.

What "PROVEN LIES"? They were very careful to clear up any mis-led concerns or misunderstandings at the Q&A session on Friday afternoon at the meeting. Maybe YOU should have gone!
:TulsaROCKS:

[Jekyll]

Meritless may be correct, cause other than the fun I have from poking some of 'em in the eye every now and agin, I couldn't give a flyin' fajita what they do.

I am learning not to waste time on unethical, dishonest folk.

Notice I said "learning", not that I "have learned.":toofunny

Lol.

I'm sure that you will find that we can learn alot from ourselves.

:toofunny

[Jekyll]

What "PROVEN LIES"? They were very careful to clear up any mis-led concerns or misunderstandings at the Q&A session on Friday afternoon at the meeting. Maybe YOU should have gone!
:TulsaROCKS:
Don't bother...this guy thinks that anyone having a shred of holiness beliefs included in their faith is a legalist. These folks know AAAAALLLL about the WPF especially since they were willing to give a benefit of a doubt and attend the inaugural sessions.

Now they can give a FIRST-HAND account of the direction and vision given by the leadership of this fellowship.

:ohplease

[tv1a]

I believe if you check the archives, I've posted the biblical principles I live by on this forum. Check it out. Find out which princples you have a problem with. Point them out. Not one claiming a consrvative leaning had one thing to say. I dare say my principles are more in line with the Word than the World Pharisee Federation. I treat the internet with the same intensity as I do television. I don't have to find loopholes to justify why I can have the internet. Legalism?

When doesn't have to attend an Italiam restaruant to know what goes on in a Mafia meeting. There are enough facts out there to prove their actions are less than honorable.

Don't bother...this guy thinks that anyone having a shred of holiness beliefs included in their faith is a legalist. These folks know AAAAALLLL about the WPF especially since they were willing to give a benefit of a doubt and attend the inaugural sessions.

Now they can give a FIRST-HAND account of the direction and vision given by the leadership of this fellowship.

:ohplease

[Whole Hearted]

:TulsaROCKS::TulsaROCKS::TulsaROCKS:

[Jekyll]

I believe if you check the archives, I've posted the biblical principles I live by on this forum. Check it out. Find out which princples you have a problem with. Point them out. Not one claiming a consrvative leaning had one thing to say. I dare say my principles are more in line with the Word than the World Pharisee Federation. I treat the internet with the same intensity as I do television. I don't have to find loopholes to justify why I can have the internet. Legalism?

When doesn't have to attend an Italiam restaruant to know what goes on in a Mafia meeting. There are enough facts out there to prove their actions are less than honorable.
Leave it to tv to equate the WPF to a Mafia meeting in the basement of an Italian restaurant.

Sorry, pal, the WPF was formed by free will with those who have expressed their free will by possibly leaving the UPC. When an organization forces a change to its foundation therby nullifying core beliefs change of membership may be needed. One doesn't have to stand on a mountain in the pathof a rock slide to know that erosion of solidity has taken place.

Pharisees? Mafia? These are the groups who have damaged ethical choices of freedom akin to the damage the illegalists who have bypassed the AOF for years have caused to the UPC.

[CC1]

It saddens me that some have stooped to impuning the entire WWPF. There is no doubt in my mind that there are some founders, members, supporters, etc who have the wrong motives, attitudes, etc.

I am just as certain there are good honest hearted men involved who are doing what they are doing out of absolute conviction.

Like any other man made organization there will be the good,bad, and ugly. That is the nature of imperfect human beings and the organizations they create.

[George]

What "PROVEN LIES"? They were very careful to clear up any mis-led concerns or misunderstandings at the Q&A session on Friday afternoon at the meeting. Maybe YOU should have gone!
:TulsaROCKS:

If you consider yourself a minister, you should know how wrong it is to listen to one side of a story. You listened to their side of the story and took it as fact. Furthermore, they have listed answers on their website so attendance in Tulsa was not necessary to hear their response. I felt their answers were quite defensive and had loopholes so big an attorney would enjoy jumping through them. I'm glad I didn't go.

If I may ask, what will the WPF do when TV is obsolete and entirely run through computers? TV as it is currently known will be equal to an eight track stereo in less than five years. Will you then give up your computers? In fact, all computers on the market have TV receivers built in.

[tv1a]

The wpf was started by men who reasons for leaving are absurd. It is obvious they don't believe in principle. If so when Larry Booker announced at a conference a police officer at his church arrested over 40 people for sexual crimes using the internet, he would have said the internet needed to be banned. I haven't heard of 40 people in a year being arrested for watching television. It doesn't take a mensa meeting to see the lack of principle in their stance. Disguising meetings prior to GC, formulating game plans to succeed from the union. They are operating in direct violation of scripture. Romans 14 comes to mind as other scriptures.


You need to reread your history of the upci. The foundation was not based on television. The foundation was based on One God/Acts 2:38. It wasn't until the 1970's that television became an issue. The lies purportrated by anti-tv advertising have been debunked. ALJC has always permitted television. They haven't compromised Acts 2:38 or the One God messge one iota.

The founders of WPF were not forced to leave. Their unbiblical views were defeated. So they started an organization which still has inconsistent principles.

Leave it to tv to equate the WPF to a Mafia meeting in the basement of an Italian restaurant.

Sorry, pal, the WPF was formed by free will with those who have expressed their free will by possibly leaving the UPC. When an organization forces a change to its foundation therby nullifying core beliefs change of membership may be needed. One doesn't have to stand on a mountain in the pathof a rock slide to know that erosion of solidity has taken place.

Pharisees? Mafia? These are the groups who have damaged ethical choices of freedom akin to the damage the illegalists who have bypassed the AOF for years have caused to the UPC.

[tv1a]

Look at the wpf founders history. They haven't totally honest. The mouthpieces represents the organizations.

It saddens me that some have stooped to impuning the entire WWPF. There is no doubt in my mind that there are some founders, members, supporters, etc who have the wrong motives, attitudes, etc.

I am just as certain there are good honest hearted men involved who are doing what they are doing out of absolute conviction.

Like any other man made organization there will be the good,bad, and ugly. That is the nature of imperfect human beings and the organizations they create.

[Whole Hearted]

The WPF was started by good God fearing men who are standing by their convictions and not going with the tide of worldliness .

[revrandy]

The WPF was started by good God fearing men who are standing by their convictions and not going with the tide of worldliness .

Are you still swimming with the tide??

[WyoPastor]

ALJC has always permitted television. They haven't compromised Acts 2:38 or the One God messge one iota.

So, when the G family withdrew from the UPCI over women preachers in the 60's they joined a group that approved TV's?

[Mr. Steinway]

Can WPF survive the test of time?

When organizations or fellowships are young, the passion and enthusiasm are contagious. A fire fills the air. Everyone takes note, perhaps with alarm, of this new emerging force.

But, over time, leadership and core teams and committees can begin to tire and dwindle. The organization or fellowship then begins to take on bureaucratic tendencies as many people, once committed, return to their previous existence.

How do you sustain?

1. Establish a culture and purpose (check!)
2. Leaders with excellent leadership skills (Some seem to have - let's wait and see!)
3. Ability to Manage Change! :eek: Oops!

The whole reason for their existence is because they couldn't handle change! Oh well........

[Nahum]

Funny thread.

[Kansas Preacher]

I don't know if the question ever got answered on this thread, and I am not about to read through more than 20 pages to find out. Therefore, if my answer is redundant, so be it.

There were more than 200 who joined at the Tulsa meeting. They have had 1-2 more applications arriving every day.

It has been the M.O. of the officials of the UPC to downplay this at every turn. First, only 16 people got out. (I personally knew almost 30!) Now, only 72 have joined. Perhaps someone needs to take a refresher course in basic math.

:happydance

[StMark]

I don't know if the question ever got answered on this thread, and I am not about to read through more than 20 pages to find out. Therefore, if my answer is redundant, so be it.

There were more than 200 who joined at the Tulsa meeting. They have had 1-2 more applications arriving every day.

It has been the M.O. of the officials of the UPC to downplay this at every turn. First, only 16 people got out. (I personally knew almost 30!) Now, only 72 have joined. Perhaps someone needs to take a refresher course in basic math.

:happydance


KP posting on AFF?????????????????????????????????


***** SHOCKING *******


:happydance

[tv1a]

Larry Booker talks about rapid rise in arrests internet porn and doesn't preach against the internet. How is that not going with the tide of worldliness. The wpf lives in a world of suspended animation.

The WPF was started by good God fearing men who are standing by their convictions and not going with the tide of worldliness .

[tv1a]

What does that have to do with Acts 2:38 or ONE God? The lie purportrated by anti television movement is the message is compromised. Proof in pudding that isn't true. Women preachers is a separate issue from Acts 2:38

So, when the G family withdrew from the UPCI over women preachers in the 60's they joined a group that approved TV's?

[CC1]

I don't know if the question ever got answered on this thread, and I am not about to read through more than 20 pages to find out. Therefore, if my answer is redundant, so be it.

There were more than 200 who joined at the Tulsa meeting. They have had 1-2 more applications arriving every day.

It has been the M.O. of the officials of the UPC to downplay this at every turn. First, only 16 people got out. (I personally knew almost 30!) Now, only 72 have joined. Perhaps someone needs to take a refresher course in basic math.

:happydance


KP,

Good to see you posting. Sounds like by your information tha they should be right at about 230+ members. Sounds to me like WWPF is trending toward a 300-500 membership which is about where it was predicted by many.

I could be wrong (as Elder Epley and my wife claim I have been many times before) but I think if there was going to be a mass exodus from the UPC to the WWPF it would have already happened enmasse.

Having said that there is no doubt that 300-500 members, if that is what it turns out to be, is a significant number and certainly enough for them to be successful.

[WyoPastor]

What does that have to do with Acts 2:38 or ONE God? The lie purportrated by anti television movement is the message is compromised. Proof in pudding that isn't true. Women preachers is a separate issue from Acts 2:38

I agree Acts 2:38 and One God are what's important, I was just trying to point out that this was not the first time the G family left the UPCI. We were attending one of their churches, my father had a TV and I don't remember hearing it preached against. Although I wasn't even a teenager then.

:TulsaNO:

[Jehoram]

I don't know if the question ever got answered on this thread, and I am not about to read through more than 20 pages to find out. Therefore, if my answer is redundant, so be it.

There were more than 200 who joined at the Tulsa meeting. They have had 1-2 more applications arriving every day.

It has been the M.O. of the officials of the UPC to downplay this at every turn. First, only 16 people got out. (I personally knew almost 30!) Now, only 72 have joined. Perhaps someone needs to take a refresher course in basic math.

:happydance

Are you saying the UPC is purposefully misleading the public?

[Ferd]

Are you saying the UPC is purposefully misleading the public?

I think he is saying


"It has been the M.O. of the officials of the UPC to downplay this at every turn."


but I could be wrong!:TulsaTime:

[Thinking]

Respectfully, I have a question for Kansas Preacher:

Today you say this: "(I personally knew almost 30!)" and this: "Now, only 72 have joined." (referring to words of the UPC.)

My question: Can you document where the UPC is saying that today?

[MissBrattified]

Speaking of "simple math", perhaps the difference in the numbers has to do with that the UPC is reporting the number that has withdrawn from the UPCI, NOT the number that has joined the WPF.

In case someone has forgotten, you do not have to withdraw from the UPC in order to join the WPF.

Ergo, the numbers may not match!

[JosephConroy]

Speaking of Y2K, we had a church in CA. where the pastor instructed all his members to buy guns to hunt and live off the land. He told them all to buy tents and survival gear. they were planning to flee to the woods and live up in the mountains.

his wife wrote a cook book on how to kill and cook wild game. one of her recipes was "Possumm stew". she even told how to marinate it to get the "wild taste out of it LOL


.


Hilarious! I remember I was back in the US in the run up to "Y2K" and was in a Kroger grocery store. THEY had a whole section of Y2K supplies. you know the dehydrated food and stuff at exorbitant prices. But I just about lost it when I saw the Y2K candles that were $5.00 each! And by that I mean for ONE single five inch long white wax stubby candle! Over in the candle aisle in the same store you could by a pack of TEN of the same stubby white five inchers for 99 cents! 'Course THEY probably wouldn't have worked because they weren't Y2K candles! I still crack up every time I think about it! thanks for reminding me about it!:TulsaROCKS:



(Sorry to keep posting these Emoticons, it must be the devil makin' me do it!)
THE Joe Conroy

[Kansas Preacher]

Respectfully, I have a question for Kansas Preacher:

Today you say this: "(I personally knew almost 30!)" and this: "Now, only 72 have joined." (referring to words of the UPC.)

My question: Can you document where the UPC is saying that today?
I was simply referring to what has been stated on this thread. It was said that this is the number coming from the officials.

Speaking of "simple math", perhaps the difference in the numbers has to do with that the UPC is reporting the number that has withdrawn from the UPCI, NOT the number that has joined the WPF.

In case someone has forgotten, you do not have to withdraw from the UPC in order to join the WPF.

Ergo, the numbers may not match!The "numbers" that are "not matching" have nothing to do with how many got out versus how many joined. The fact is, it WAS reported in numerous letters by officials that "only 16" had gotten out. I personally knew of around 30 at that time. This was BEFORE Tulsa, and BEFORE it was even POSSIBLE to join the WPF.

My point was simply that, if they can find a way to misconstrue the facts about how many got out, why should we accept at face value their assessment of how many joined?

KP,

Good to see you posting. Sounds like by your information tha they should be right at about 230+ members. Sounds to me like WWPF is trending toward a 300-500 membership which is about where it was predicted by many.

I could be wrong (as Elder Epley and my wife claim I have been many times before) but I think if there was going to be a mass exodus from the UPC to the WWPF it would have already happened enmasse.

Having said that there is no doubt that 300-500 members, if that is what it turns out to be, is a significant number and certainly enough for them to be successful.

Thank you, CC1. I appreciate the fact that, although we disagree on much, I trust you to be honest in the way you deal with things. That means a LOT. Rather than being "agenda driven," you impress me as one who has no problem accepting facts that may not lead to the conclusions which you might prefer.

As for me posting, I honestly don't feel like I "fit" on AFF. That's not a slam, it's just an opinion. I keep my membership open because I feel the need to post from time to time in defense of my friends. Furthermore, on at least a couple of occasions, I myself have been the topic of discussion, and have had to post to "set the record straight." (Does anyone remember the thread that claimed that the "entire Kansas District was going to pull out?" I was District Superintendent at the time, and became quite the "party pooper" when I laid out the TRUTH.)

Thus, you probably won't be seeing a whole lot of me here. In fact, my OWN forum hasn't been seeing as much of me lately, and I DO feel like I fit there! I just haven't had the time to devote to forums and, when I do, I would prefer to discuss things rather than having to debate them OR feel like I or my friends are under attack. I think you understand.

[Thinking]

Again, respectfully, Kansas Preacher, are you accusing UPC officials of misconstruing facts?

[Kansas Preacher]

Again, respectfully, Kansas Preacher, are you accusing UPC officials of misconstruing facts?
I am not "accusing" anyone of anything. I am simply stating the facts. The letters said only 16 had gotten out, when I knew for a fact that was not the case. Did they lie? I don't think so. I think they were counting the number of men who wrote a letter specifically stating why they were dropping out. However, they were well aware that a lot more than that had gotten out.

Again, I am just trying to say that we KNOW their numbers were not accurate when it came to how many got out. Based on that knowledge, I personally would not trust any number they might proffer with regards to how many joined. How could they possibly know? Any statement concerning the number of men who have joined, when coming from the UPC, would be a matter of either conjecture or hearsay. If they HEARD that "only 72" have joined, and they repeat that, they wouldn't technically be "misconstruing facts." However, one would have to question the motive behind spreading such a story. It could ONLY be to "downplay" what has happened as a result of the vote in Tampa.

I hope that clarifies my statement sufficiently. If not, I don't know what more to say.