is McCain the Lessor of Two Evils?

[Praxeas]

Dobson is pulling support....where else will he go? Thad votes Democrat, but not Obama. McCain is touted as being too liberal, yet Thad won't vote for him either.

As "Liberal" as some might think McCain is and if one wants a conservative President...is there really any other choice that will make it to the office? It's sad that we might have to vote for someone just because other third party candidates have no hope of winning anyways, but there is one big issue I see here that historically has often had a balance.

What tends to balance things out is when one party rules congress or the senate having an opposite president could balance it out.

Having differing viewpoints might make for a lot of disagreements but at least it presents an opposing voice to test whether or not what the other side wants is good for us. Without opposition we might as well have a dictator.

Witha strong democrat representation in congress and the house I think America needs a Republican president no matter how "un conservative" he might be in some minds.

It might be a bitter pill to swallow but it might also be the lessor of two evils and in this case a non-vote for McCain is just as much a lessor of two evils as a vote is for a Democrat if you are a Conservtive.

[Pressing-On]

Scoring 82.5% on the Conservative side - No he is not the lesser of two evils.

[The Mrs]

Two weevils...not two evils!

Don't you guys know ANYTHING?!? :girlytantrum

[Pressing-On]

Two weevils...not two evils!

Don't you guys know ANYTHING?!? :girlytantrum

Sorry! I speld it rong

[scotty]

You are full of truth o wise one.

The thing is, during this campaign McCain has realized that he is a little too far left for most of his base. Otherwise Huckster would not be winning anything. I think that is why his backing down from some positions and he will have to, to keep the Amercan people in favor of him he will have to conform or compromise. All of them do.

What about the media hype going around about how even if Obama gets the most delegates that the super delegates will go for Hillary anyway at the convention. If that happens there will be total pandimonium. He could then pull a Lieberman and actually run against Hillary.

Also Ron Paul has recieved enough support that I figure he will run also. This will change the vote count also. To answer your question , yes, McCain is the lessor of two evils. JMO

My other opinion is wishing the Media would research whats being said about Huckabee and put the truth out there. Things would be alot different if people knew the truth.

[Ferd]

Prax, the short term answer is a half conservitive is better than a full liberal.

the long term answer is a little more complicated.

The fact remains, John McCain has no loyalty to those of us in the conservitive movement who are concerned with the supreme court. He doesnt necessarly like liberals but he has not been exactly happy to see conservitives nominated either.

what does that mean? it means, he doesnt care and therefore, is just as likely to appoint someone like John Paul Stevens (Richard Nixon appointee) as he is an Anthony Kennedy.

He does seem to be clear on one thing. He doesnt like guys like Scalia and Alito.

this is very bad.

In fact for conservitives who care about the court, this is actully exactly the same as Hillary Clinton or Barak Obama being elected.


Jump forward. Will McCain hold the line on spending ? Likely that has been his passion in congress.

will he do other things republicans will like? sure. he will even try to win the war on terror.

BUT what does he do to the Republican party? it is all together possible that McCains VP would win the whitehouse when he retires. if he lives and serves 8 years, then the VP gets elected, we are talking about McCain impacting the face of the republican party until 2020 or 2024.

He will effectivly end the conservitive movement.

A defeated McCain will leave us with 2 appointments to the Supreme court in the relm of Stevens and Ginsburg. which is not much different than what we get with McCain.

It will also leave us with an oppurtunity to reform the Republican party as the Conservitive party in American politics.

the trade off? Iraq and Americas men in uniform will suffer the indignaty of a commander in chief who holds them in contempt.....

I remain conflicted.

[chosenbyone]

You are full of truth o wise one.

The thing is, during this campaign McCain has realized that he is a little too far left for most of his base. Otherwise Huckster would not be winning anything. I think that is why his backing down from some positions and he will have to, to keep the Amercan people in favor of him he will have to conform or compromise. All of them do.

What about the media hype going around about how even if Obama gets the most delegates that the super delegates will go for Hillary anyway at the convention. If that happens there will be total pandimonium. He could then pull a Lieberman and actually run against Hillary.

Also Ron Paul has recieved enough support that I figure he will run also. This will change the vote count also. To answer your question , yes, McCain is the lessor of two evils. JMO

My other opinion is wishing the Media would research whats being said about Huckabee and put the truth out there. Things would be alot different if people knew the truth.




I could see McCain choosing Lieberman as his running mate, because that would bring in more independents, liberals and the Jewish vote (Florida). Don't look for Ron Paul to run as a third party candidate! He has stated on numerous occasions that he had no intentions of doing that and Ron Paul doesn't seem like the kind of man to play political games.

Paul has even started paving the way for his leaving the Presidential race during the last few days. He recognized that there would be no chance of being the Republican nominee for President, which I have been sorely disappointed that more Americans couldn't see that he was the best choice.

[chosenbyone]

I saw this video this morning where McCain flip-flopped more than any other candidate I could remember. After viewing this, I wondered why anyone would want this man to be our next President!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioy90nF2anI&feature=related

[Neck]

Dobson is pulling support....where else will he go? Thad votes Democrat, but not Obama. McCain is touted as being too liberal, yet Thad won't vote for him either.

As "Liberal" as some might think McCain is and if one wants a conservative President...is there really any other choice that will make it to the office? It's sad that we might have to vote for someone just because other third party candidates have no hope of winning anyways, but there is one big issue I see here that historically has often had a balance.

What tends to balance things out is when one party rules congress or the senate having an opposite president could balance it out.

Having differing viewpoints might make for a lot of disagreements but at least it presents an opposing voice to test whether or not what the other side wants is good for us. Without opposition we might as well have a dictator.

Witha strong democrat representation in congress and the house I think America needs a Republican president no matter how "un conservative" he might be in some minds.

It might be a bitter pill to swallow but it might also be the lessor of two evils and in this case a non-vote for McCain is just as much a lessor of two evils as a vote is for a Democrat if you are a Conservtive.

I am having a hard time wanting to vote for him...........

It's his attitude......

[scotty]

Prax, the short term answer is a half conservitive is better than a full liberal.

the long term answer is a little more complicated.

The fact remains, John McCain has no loyalty to those of us in the conservitive movement who are concerned with the supreme court. He doesnt necessarly like liberals but he has not been exactly happy to see conservitives nominated either.

what does that mean? it means, he doesnt care and therefore, is just as likely to appoint someone like John Paul Stevens (Richard Nixon appointee) as he is an Anthony Kennedy.

He does seem to be clear on one thing. He doesnt like guys like Scalia and Alito.

this is very bad.

In fact for conservitives who care about the court, this is actully exactly the same as Hillary Clinton or Barak Obama being elected.


Jump forward. Will McCain hold the line on spending ? Likely that has been his passion in congress.

will he do other things republicans will like? sure. he will even try to win the war on terror.

BUT what does he do to the Republican party? it is all together possible that McCains VP would win the whitehouse when he retires. if he lives and serves 8 years, then the VP gets elected, we are talking about McCain impacting the face of the republican party until 2020 or 2024.

He will effectivly end the conservitive movement.

A defeated McCain will leave us with 2 appointments to the Supreme court in the relm of Stevens and Ginsburg. which is not much different than what we get with McCain.

It will also leave us with an oppurtunity to reform the Republican party as the Conservitive party in American politics.

the trade off? Iraq and Americas men in uniform will suffer the indignaty of a commander in chief who holds them in contempt.....

I remain conflicted.

I don't know Ferd, I don't think McCain is that influential. You he know could actually excite the conservative base in the other direction. It may take him to make the base wake up.

[tbpew]

since when it comes to political thinking I normally wait to hear what FERD has to say and then work from there......

McCain or Hillary is almost an indistinguishable selection.
For me, it tips toward Johnny because a Clinton dynasty would have more pardons of criminal cohorts and pandering to the Chinese

So yes, In a straight two-party, one system game.....McCain is that lesser evil.

but what FERD's last post proves to me is that if the nation is going to have any balance in place, we should stop focusing on the presidency and place our attention in the Senate.

RIP Vince.

[Praxeas]

Scoring 82.5% on the Conservative side - No he is not the lesser of two evils.
but in light of the Rush/Dobson issue....my point is it's best to vote for him even if he is not perfectly what the Cons want

[Praxeas]

But consider what will a Democratic President mean with a Strong Democratic presense, even a majority in congress and senate?...

To NOTE vote at all or to vote for a third party is to NOT vote for that counter balance.

[TRFrance]

is McCain the Lessor of Two Evils?



Alex, I'll take "YOU GOT THAT RIGHT!!" for $1,000

http://www.download-free-games.com/online_games/onlineScreens/Jeopardy.jpg

[Ferd]

I don't know Ferd, I don't think McCain is that influential. You he know could actually excite the conservative base in the other direction. It may take him to make the base wake up.

As president, he will control the party and the platform. He will get challenged in four years from the right, but if the economy is good and the war in Iraq looks like a winner, he will get four more years.

Scotty, who ever the president is, they have absolute control of the party and thus control of the money and that is all he needs.

[scotty]

I know that is the way it is supposed to work, but you know Bush hasn't gotten his way with the party in the past 2 or 3 years. I don't know, everything is really fluid right now. It may be getting ready to sway back the other way. You know everything the Repub. are for today used to be the Dem. base. JFK was more conservative than most Republicans. Don't know what happen to Teddy boy.

[Ferd]

since when it comes to political thinking I normally wait to hear what FERD has to say and then work from there......

McCain or Hillary is almost an indistinguishable selection.
For me, it tips toward Johnny because a Clinton dynasty would have more pardons of criminal cohorts and pandering to the Chinese

So yes, In a straight two-party, one system game.....McCain is that lesser evil.

but what FERD's last post proves to me is that if the nation is going to have any balance in place, we should stop focusing on the presidency and place our attention in the Senate.

RIP Vince.

my friend, the tea leaves are saying that no matter who wins the whitehouse, the dems will pick up between 25 and 75 seats in the house and up to 10 seats in the senate.

IF McCain wins the whitehouse, the Dems might have a filibuster proof Demorat congress.

the only help for conservitives is if the Dems fall flat on their face.

[Ferd]

I know that is the way it is supposed to work, but you know Bush hasn't gotten his way with the party in the past 2 or 3 years. I don't know, everything is really fluid right now. It may be getting ready to sway back the other way. You know everything the Repub. are for today used to be the Dem. base. JFK was more conservative than most Republicans. Don't know what happen to Teddy boy.

One can hope.

based on the numbers tonight, McCain is getting a lesson in humility in VA.

I will vote for Huck if he is still in it when they get to Texas.

I have not decided what to do in the General election.

[OP_Carl]

Prax, the short term answer is a half conservitive is better than a full liberal.

the long term answer is a little more complicated.

The fact remains, John McCain has no loyalty to those of us in the conservative movement who are concerned with the supreme court. He doesnt necessarly like liberals but he has not been exactly happy to see conservitives nominated either.

what does that mean? it means, he doesnt care and therefore, is just as likely to appoint someone like John Paul Stevens (Richard Nixon appointee) as he is an Anthony Kennedy.

He does seem to be clear on one thing. He doesnt like guys like Scalia and Alito.

this is very bad. I agree.

In fact for conservitives who care about the court, this is actully exactly the same as Hillary Clinton or Barak Obama being elected. I disagree. It's almost as bad, but not as bad.


Jump forward. Will McCain hold the line on spending ? Likely that has been his passion in congress.

will he do other things republicans will like? sure. he will even try to win the war on terror.

BUT what does he do to the Republican party? it is all together possible that McCains VP would win the whitehouse when he retires. if he lives and serves 8 years, then the VP gets elected, we are talking about McCain impacting the face of the republican party until 2020 or 2024.

He will effectivly end the conservitive movement. You are incorrect. Such a scenario will not END the conservative movement. It will force the conservative movement to find a new home. Or build one. It will yank one of the three legs out from under the "three-legged-stool" that is the conservative coalition. This could put the Republicans in permanent minority status, however, I believe such a third party would appeal to blue dog democrats and Southern Christian democrats.

We've actually got a less diverse representation of beliefs in the Republican party than in the democrat party - the democrats are better at controlling their factions. The democratic convention may see the beginning of this awkward conglomeration of strange bedfellows unravel if the fur begins to fly when there is no clear winner of the nomination.

A defeated McCain will leave us with 2 appointments to the Supreme court in the relm of Stevens and Ginsburg. which is not much different than what we get with McCain.

It will also leave us with an oppurtunity to reform the Republican party as the Conservitive party in American politics. I'm not sure such an opportunity truly exists. The evidence suggests that the Republicans have an elite ruling class just as the Democrats do, and they use us "evangelicals" just like the Dems use minority groups, "victim" classes, and labor unions. The promises are made, the votes are gathered up, and not much of substance is delivered in the ensuing terms of office.

the trade off? Iraq and Americas men in uniform will suffer the indignaty of a commander in chief who holds them in contempt.....

I remain conflicted.
No question it's a toughie. Obama might have what it takes to grow into his shoes, so to speak. Hillary is as tough and unchanging as an anvil. Peggy Noonan, Ronald Reagan's famous speech writer, asks and answers the rhetorical question does Hillary have what it takes to lose gracefully. (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120241915915951669.html?mod=opinion_main_comment aries) We all already know she does not. She will wade through hip-deep mud to gouge eyes, bite, and pull hair before she turns loose of this nomination. It is literally the Clinton's last hurrah for power.

I can't find it now but there is a chilling comparison between an Adolf Hitler quote circa 1931 and a Hillary Clinton quote from 1993. The Hillary quote is here (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=29119)

[OP_Carl]

I know that is the way it is supposed to work, but you know Bush hasn't gotten his way with the party in the past 2 or 3 years. I'm not so sure about that. The party is just more fractured because the prez has demonstrated he's a big-gov't republican and that turns off conservatives. Plus there is a faction of face-time republicans that become nervous nellies when the press runs us through the wringer. Bush has had an uphill battle the last 2 or 3 years because the republicans lost legislative majority. NOT that they were doing anything conservative with it when they had it . . .

I don't know, everything is really fluid right now. It may be getting ready to sway back the other way. You know everything the Repub. are for today used to be the Dem. base. That isn't so. The dem base has never been for big business.
JFK was more conservative than most Republicans. The entire country was more conservative than it is now in 1959.
Don't know what happen to Teddy boy. He got water on the brain when he was baptized in the Chappaquiddick river. It's a medical condition that requires constant effort to keep the bloodstream sterile, and Senator Kennedy has done an admirable job in the face of adversity keeping his blood alcohol content up to the recommended dosages for his delicate condition.

[ManOfWord]

I hate to say this, but I'm afraid we may have to get used to saying "President Obama." I don't think McCain is a conservative, but he is certainly FAR more of a conservative than either Mrs. "C" or Mr. "O." That being said, if it comes down to it, I'll vote for McCain. I'd rather vote for Huckabee, but he doesn't seem to be a fiscal conservative.

At any rate, we will never have the perfect candidate and if we're waiting for a Oneness Pentecostal to get to the whitehouse, the rapture has a better chance of happening before I post this than that does!! :D

We just have to choose the best we can. Our major problem is that most of us don't get involved or support candidates until it is too late. What I mean by that is that we should be getting behind young conservative candidates who are running for School Board, City Council, County Commissioner, State Rep, State Senate etc. The guys at the top will only be a result of our effort at the bottom. If we don't get busy and "fill" the pipeline, we'll just have more of the same old "stuff."

[OP_Carl]

my friend, the tea leaves are saying that no matter who wins the whitehouse, the dems will pick up between 25 and 75 seats in the house and up to 10 seats in the senate. And this, my friend, is the one area of this year's election where we conservatives don't have to sit there and take whatever we're served. We can not only make a difference for this year's election, but we can begin identifying the true-blue conservatives at the statehouse levels!

IF McCain wins the whitehouse, the Dems might have a filibuster proof Demorat congress. And no reason to filibuster . . .

the only help for conservitives is if the Dems fall flat on their face. We could all join the constitution party or the libertarian party.

[OP_Carl]

IIt is possible to inferentially determine where our opportunities are by determining where the left's risks are. The mainstream media focuses attentiona AWAY from left's risks. They gave a lot of attention to Huck and McCain because they have calculated that neither of them can win in the national election. They avoided Thompson like the plague. It's not good for the left that we're making good progress in Iraq, so the MSM focuses on suicide and violence among returning veterans instead. They are giving absolutely ZERO coverage to the congressional races this year because they know that is where conservatives can have their voice - a voice the leftists hope to deny us.

[Ferd]

OP Carl, I like you!

[pelathais]

Jim Dobson is a tired old man. McCain is a "lib" but he's ammendable to pressures from the Republican party. With O or Hillary in office all bets are off and watch for them to stack the courts and raise taxes.

Even if you couldn't bring yourself to vote for McCain, there are still a lot of other important races for the House and Senate that need your attention as well. Don't throw in the towel like Dobson and Co. Keep fighting.

[Ferd]

Jim Dobson is a tired old man. McCain is a "lib" but he's ammendable to pressures from the Republican party. With O or Hillary in office all bets are off and watch for them to stack the courts and raise taxes.

Even if you couldn't bring yourself to vote for McCain, there are still a lot of other important races for the House and Senate that need your attention as well. Don't throw in the towel like Dobson and Co. Keep fighting.

I agree about the other races. we need wins. we need a much better organization.

[OP_Carl]

OP Carl, I like you!

Likewise, I'm sure! :) :thumbsup

[scotty]

He got water on the brain when he was baptized in the Chappaquiddick river. It's a medical condition that requires constant effort to keep the bloodstream sterile, and Senator Kennedy has done an admirable job in the face of adversity keeping his blood alcohol content up to the recommended dosages for his delicate condition.


:toofunny:toofunny:toofunny:toofunny

Your alright OP

[pelathais]

Barak Hussein Obama for president? The man's first job was as a "community organizer." He opened an office in Houston and his campaign folks led the media into the new digs. Notice the wall behind the desk. What gets me is that no one in the media entourage even thought to ask questions at the time.

No need to watch the whole clip, you can cut when it goes to Hillary.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=KU5Rt890Wm4&feature=related

Here's another office.

http://www.myfoxhouston.com/myfox/pages/News/Politics/Detail?contentId=5668120&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=3.14.1

When someone in the media finally got up the nerve to ask the really tough questions, here's the response from the Obama campaign:

http://www.myfoxhouston.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=5757617&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=1.1.1

Only in Texas will you find people this clueless. :stirpot

[scotty]

WOW.....and they want to make something out a cross behind Huckabee...

[Sister Alvear]

Is that really true? If so it is very scary...

[scotty]

Not really, I don't think he supports Cuba as much as trying to appease the American-Cuban vote.

[Sister Alvear]

by the video it says:

This clip from myfoxhouston.com shows a Barack Obama office in Houston with a flag over the desk...not the American flag, but the Cuban flag. And the flag is adorned by a picture of infamous terrorist, tyrant, and opponent of democracy, Che Guevara.

Che Guevara was a violent communist anti-American, something nobody would dispute.

Let's hope that if Obama wins, he doesn't follow in the footsteps of Guevara....as he was "The Butcher of the Cabaña," a ruthless tyrant who executed countless people without trial, merely on suspicion that they disagreed with him, were religious, etc.

Another reason for Obama to beware emulating this guy... Seems that the peasants didn't like him as much as he'd hoped. He was captured and executed when they failed to protect him. Doesn't stop American loons from idolizing him, though!

(Why do I call him a terrorist, when he felt that widespread terrorism was counterproductive? Because he did promote assassination as legitimate, and he ran a terror campaign when he gained power. Perhaps that's overly broad--so viewers can just figure Obama campaign volunteers support assassination, thuggery, and murder, if it feels liguistically better.

[Sister Alvear]

Guevara is the hero here in South American among the far extreme left parties...seen that picture lots of places before...May God help America.

[pelathais]

Guevara is the hero here in South American among the far extreme left parties...seen that picture lots of places before...May God help America.
It was put up by Obama supporters in their Houston offices. It seems to have been removed from public and the "Cuban-American" Obama campaign volunteer who was interviewed about the flag refused to even discuss it before walking away from the interview.

[Michael The Disciple]

Mccain has till November to convince me to vote for him. Hes no worse than most politicians I have been aware of over the years. It takes one with tremendous ego to run for President.

No votes ever from me for pro gay, pro aborts.

[OP_Carl]

Mccain has till November to convince me to vote for him. So, are you saying you are willing to suspend reviewing his track record for support and voting and decide based on campaign promises? Would the selection of a churchmouse veep do it for you?

Hes no worse than most politicians I have been aware of over the years. It takes one with tremendous ego to run for President. I daresay it also takes a lot of guts. ONE misspoken word on the campaign trail, or even years in the past, can ruin it all. Any past indiscretion is fair game for a surly and public analysis.

This year all the front runners have had some sort of protected status that limits the ferocity with which the opponents are willing to attack them:
1) Be careful attacking the minority on the issues lest you be viewed as racist
2) Be careful attacking the woman on the issues lest you be viewed as sexist
3) Be careful attacking the former war hero P.O.W. on the issues- hordes of people get a tear in their eye just thinking about his sacrifice for his country
4) Be careful attacking the former Baptist preacher on the issues- Baptists vote both sides and there are MILLIONS of them
5) Be careful attacking the cult member on the issues lest you be viewed as discriminating based on religion

No votes ever from me for pro gay, pro aborts.

There is just no question that this year it's going to be a tough call.

[Sister Alvear]

The christians in my church find it hard to believe that Americans would go wild over Obama...How can I ever tell my people the evils of the left party if he has a picture of Guevara in one of his offices and intelligent people laugh it off...
You would not be laughing if you were under rule of a Guevara...yes, I know most think that could never happen in the good ole USA...many thought Rome would rule forever...

[OP_Carl]

The christians in my church find it hard to believe that Americans would go wild over Obama...How can I ever tell my people the evils of the left party if he has a picture of Guevara in one of his offices and intelligent people laugh it off...
You would not be laughing if you were under rule of a Guevara...yes, I know most think that could never happen in the good ole USA...many thought Rome would rule forever...

Ouch!

[ChristopherHall]

Here's something I posted in another thread:
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?p=388432#post388432

John McCain met his wife Cindy and began a whirlwind love affair and courtship. However, John McCain had a few things to take care of before they could marry. John McCain had to divorce Carol, his wife of 14 years. John McCain has even admitted to having had a problem keeping his member privy during this period by admitting that he had extramarital "affairs". John McCain then abandoned his wife and children to marry Cindy, the woman he was sleeping around with (not even Clinton abandoned his wife and children). During this adulterous relationship John McCain charmed Cindy with a web of "white lies". For example he lied about his age when they met and even lied to her while in the hospital when she was given flowers from a "John", when she thanked him he let on like he had sent her flowers, but in fact the flowers weren't from John McCain. He laughs about this today as though it is charming. But while telling these little white lies he was sleeping around with her and being unfaithful to his wife. Absolutely nothing charming about it.

Also John McCain has emotional outbursts, fits of rage, and uses extensive foul language. These are typicaly behaviors of men who have Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, something for which he has been evaluated for several times, primarily because of his suicide attempt. The man is also in his 70's and is having moments of being "out of touch" with conversations. He's the last man who can be expected to broker peace in the Middle East and bring moderate Islamic nations into alliance with us against Islamic extremists. I don't want him anywhere near the "button".

A man's family life is a sure sign of his character and leadership, that's why the Apostle Paul made a solid family life a requirement for leadership in God's church. John McCain is a lying, unfaithful, and emotionally unstable man. His age should also be a concerning factor. So I'd consider these things before anointing him our "conservative" leader.

On the other hand Obama, while a liberal, is still married to his first and only wife Michelle. Obama deeply loves his wife and children, and it shows. Men may have their political "policies" they espouse, and we might disagree with them on an issue or two....but fidelity is the truest test of "character". And McCain fails that test.

Like I said, I'd rather vote for a man who is honest about being a liberal than a man who claims to be a conservative but is actually nothing but an emotionally unstable phony.

[Pressing-On]

Jim Dobson is a tired old man. McCain is a "lib" but he's ammendable to pressures from the Republican party. With O or Hillary in office all bets are off and watch for them to stack the courts and raise taxes.

Even if you couldn't bring yourself to vote for McCain, there are still a lot of other important races for the House and Senate that need your attention as well. Don't throw in the towel like Dobson and Co. Keep fighting.
Point!

[Sister Alvear]

Chris...son I am not against you because I speak out against Obama. I live, work and worship in a country controlled by the left party...Thanks to our government it is next to impossible for missionaries to get visas to come to Brazil, Guevara is a picture that hangs in many offices...It is not Obama personally that I am against it is what he stands for...yes, I know McCain has done terrible things and Mrs Clinton is what every godly would should not want to be...
Chris what scares me is your defense of someone YOU really do not know...How can you know what is in his heart? How can you really know what his values are?

[OP_Carl]

Here's something I posted in another thread:
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?p=388432#post388432

Aaaannnnd . . . . you got handed your lunch in that other thread, too.

[ChristopherHall]

Carl, McCain is a womanizing phony who walked out on his family for some floosy. While Obama may have a different philosophical approach to his politics, he's got far more character. McCain's mentally unbalanced and a deadbeat husband and father.

[OP_Carl]

Just write in "none of the above" on your ballot.

[Ferd]

Carl, McCain is a womanizing phony who walked out on his family for some floosy. While Obama may have a different philosophical approach to his politics, he's got far more character. McCain's mentally unbalanced and a deadbeat husband and father.

And as I have already pointed out today, you as a democrat voter, have absolutly NO Right to make the point.


Sorry buddy. I love you and all, but No democrat EVER gets to speak on the issue of morality in politics. period.

We conservitives can choose to have the discussion if we so desire. Your team has forfitted that right.

[Ferd]

Here's something I posted in another thread:
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?p=388432#post388432

Chris, I see now where you didnt reply or even post another post in "the other thread...."

instead you run here to this thread to spred the message.... therefore, let me post here, what I posted in reply to you there....

Chris, I am doing my best to be nice here.

but let me be quite frank.

No democrat EVER gets to mention morality as a cause NOT to vote for something.

That is a discussion that ONLY republicans are allowed to have with FELLOW REPUBLICANS.

WE can discuss it. You are NOT allowed.

Morality is not the perview of those who support politicians of the democrat party. period. ever.

[Ferd]

And yes, I still get a feeling of superiority when I tell a dem they cant talk about morality in politics!

Hee hee....

[Praxeas]

Chris, I see now where you didnt reply or even post another post in "the other thread...."

instead you run here to this thread to spred the message.... therefore, let me post here, what I posted in reply to you there....

Chris, I am doing my best to be nice here.

but let me be quite frank.

No democrat EVER gets to mention morality as a cause NOT to vote for something.

That is a discussion that ONLY republicans are allowed to have with FELLOW REPUBLICANS.

WE can discuss it. You are NOT allowed.

Morality is not the perview of those who support politicians of the democrat party. period. ever.
Only Republicans? lol....

[Ferd]

Only Republicans? lol....

well.... independants that have opposed all things democrat.... constitutionalists....


you know, the usual suspects... the good guys.

but yea, Republicans get to talk about morality with other republicans. Democrats are not allowed to talk. period.

Gerry Studds
Barny Frank
Bill Clinton
Ted Kennedy
Robert Byrd

it isnt what they did, it is what their party defended.

Richard Nixon
Mark Foley
Bill Packwood
Bob Livingston
Trent Lott

it is what they did and it is what their party did about it.

[Bro-Larry]

YES,

[pelathais]

Carl, McCain is a womanizing phony who walked out on his family for some floosy. While Obama may have a different philosophical approach to his politics, he's got far more character. McCain's mentally unbalanced and a deadbeat husband and father.
How exactly has McCain been a "deadbeat father?" You're just making stuff up now. McCain's not my guy, but it's for reasons.

You're the one who's coming across as "mentally unbalanced" when you just throw accusations out there.

If McCain paid alimony to the "ex," then he's not even a "deadbeat husband." Philandering flyboy, maybe; but I haven't seen him do anything that qualifies as a "deadbeat."

[pelathais]

And as I have already pointed out today, you as a democrat voter, have absolutly NO Right to make the point.


Sorry buddy. I love you and all, but No democrat EVER gets to speak on the issue of morality in politics. period.

We conservitives can choose to have the discussion if we so desire. Your team has forfitted that right.
ChristopherHall is a "Democrat?" Ask him about how Mary Jo Kopechne's health care was handled after her little car accident in 1969.

[Ferd]

How exactly has McCain been a "deadbeat father?" You're just making stuff up now. McCain's not my guy, but it's for reasons.

You're the one who's coming across as "mentally unbalanced" when you just throw accusations out there.

If McCain paid alimony to the "ex," then he's not even a "deadbeat husband." Philandering flyboy, maybe; but I haven't seen him do anything that qualifies as a "deadbeat."

Sir, Chris is not allowed to have this discussion with us. Please do not engage him with morality discussions about republicans. He isnt allowed on that part of the playground.

[pelathais]

Sir, Chris is not allowed to have this discussion with us. Please do not engage him with morality discussions about republicans. He isnt allowed on that part of the playground.
I have made a note of this and will conduct myself accordingly. Thank you for your kindest instructions and regard.

[ChristopherHall]

And as I have already pointed out today, you as a democrat voter, have absolutly NO Right to make the point.


Sorry buddy. I love you and all, but No democrat EVER gets to speak on the issue of morality in politics. period.

We conservitives can choose to have the discussion if we so desire. Your team has forfitted that right.

As I said before, I've only voted Democratic three times if you count local elections. I'll comment where I like.

[deacon blues]

Dobson is pulling support....where else will he go? Thad votes Democrat, but not Obama. McCain is touted as being too liberal, yet Thad won't vote for him either.

As "Liberal" as some might think McCain is and if one wants a conservative President...is there really any other choice that will make it to the office? It's sad that we might have to vote for someone just because other third party candidates have no hope of winning anyways, but there is one big issue I see here that historically has often had a balance.

What tends to balance things out is when one party rules congress or the senate having an opposite president could balance it out.

Having differing viewpoints might make for a lot of disagreements but at least it presents an opposing voice to test whether or not what the other side wants is good for us. Without opposition we might as well have a dictator.

Witha strong democrat representation in congress and the house I think America needs a Republican president no matter how "un conservative" he might be in some minds.

It might be a bitter pill to swallow but it might also be the lessor of two evils and in this case a non-vote for McCain is just as much a lessor of two evils as a vote is for a Democrat if you are a Conservtive.

McCain is a 1,000 times more conservative on his most liberal day than Obama is on his most conservative day.

[ChristopherHall]

How exactly has McCain been a "deadbeat father?" You're just making stuff up now. McCain's not my guy, but it's for reasons.

You're the one who's coming across as "mentally unbalanced" when you just throw accusations out there.

If McCain paid alimony to the "ex," then he's not even a "deadbeat husband." Philandering flyboy, maybe; but I haven't seen him do anything that qualifies as a "deadbeat."

He was having extramarital affairs when married to Carol, then abandoned his wife of 14 years and his children. Yes, he paid alimony. But here's the deal...he abandoned his kids. That's something we need to address. That does just as much damage to marriage, if not more, than two gays getting hitched in some tree huggin' church on E. Doper St. Massachusetts. We as straight Christians need to recommit to addressing divorce in our ranks with more force. Frankly McCain's current marriage is a sham. It was forged in adultery and since his wife was the won with biblical grounds to divorce him, he's currently still in adultery though he married Cindy. McCain might as well be gay married to John Edwards. Sin is sin brother. It's men like McCain that are leaving kids to grow up in fatherless homes all over the United States. Sin is sin bro.

[ChristopherHall]

Sir, Chris is not allowed to have this discussion with us. Please do not engage him with morality discussions about republicans. He isnt allowed on that part of the playground.

Get real. I've only voted Democratic three times in my life, and that's including local, city, county, state, and congressional elections. LOL You don't have a clue. :toofunny

[ChristopherHall]

McCain is a 1,000 times more conservative on his most liberal day than Obama is on his most conservative day.

I don't discount that McCain is a more conservative liberal than Obama. My issue is that McCain is pretending to be a "conservative". Obama is honest about being a liberal. And Obama doesn't have PTSD and never tried to commit suicide. Obama is also still married to his wife and loves his kids too much to abandon them. Do I agree with Obama politically on every issue? No. But Obama has far more character and integrity than John McMac.

[Ferd]

Get real. I've only voted Democratic three times in my life, and that's including local, city, county, state, and congressional elections. LOL You don't have a clue. :toofunny

yet today you are advocting the liberal/democratic position, and therefore you are a member of the team who doesnt get to play!

sorry bro. you advocate for an organization that is what it is.

so dont tell me that McCain is immoral. sorry, you have forfitted that right. unless you dont mind wearing the hypocrit lable?

[Ferd]

well.... independants that have opposed all things democrat.... constitutionalists....


you know, the usual suspects... the good guys.

but yea, Republicans get to talk about morality with other republicans. Democrats are not allowed to talk. period.

Gerry Studds
Barny Frank
Bill Clinton
Ted Kennedy
Robert Byrd

it isnt what they did, it is what their party defended.

Richard Nixon
Mark Foley
Bill Packwood
Bob Livingston
Trent Lott

it is what they did and it is what their party did about it.

bumping this. history is a great teacher.

[pelathais]

He was having extramarital affairs when married to Carol, then abandoned his wife of 14 years and his children. Yes, he paid alimony. But here's the deal...he abandoned his kids. That's something we need to address. That does just as much damage to marriage, if not more, than two gays getting hitched in some tree huggin' church on E. Doper St. Massachusetts. We as straight Christians need to recommit to addressing divorce in our ranks with more force. Frankly McCain's current marriage is a sham. It was forged in adultery and since his wife was the won with biblical grounds to divorce him, he's currently still in adultery though he married Cindy. McCain might as well be gay married to John Edwards. Sin is sin brother. It's men like McCain that are leaving kids to grow up in fatherless homes all over the United States. Sin is sin bro.
You're really serious? Obama is this much of a paragon of virtue in your book that you run out a screed condemning the behavior of a man who flew with Tailhook? What do you think Navy pilots are like? Has McCain ever pretended to be anything else?

Like I said, he's not my guy- but he is what he is. And your nonsense about his treatment of his children is absurd. You just sit there and spew out propaganda that you've cut and pasted from Che's web sites. Are you really trying to make us believe that you're on a first name basis with McCain's wives? What's your point there?

Everyone who reads your silliness sees it for what it is - except you. I feel badly for you, bro. When you hit bottom from this I'm afraid that you're going to hit hard. But don't worry- I'll be there for you. I'll pick you up like a ragged drunk on the streets in the Bowery and help you to stagger back into a stream of conscious reasoning again. I'll be there for ya, bro! http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[OP_Carl]

When you hit bottom from this I'm afraid that you're going to hit hard. But don't worry- I'll be there for you. I'll pick you up like a ragged drunk on the streets in the Bowery and help you to stagger back into a stream of conscious reasoning again. I'll be there for ya, bro!

:blink:uhoh

So you're going to be his Apostolics Anonymous sponsor?

[pelathais]

:blink:uhoh

So you're going to be his Apostolics Anonymous sponsor?
I just think that he's a kid who got bit by the Barak Obama bug. A little time is all that's needed to clear that up - as long as he doesn't go too far over the edge.

[ChristopherHall]

You're really serious? Obama is this much of a paragon of virtue in your book that you run out a screed condemning the behavior of a man who flew with Tailhook? What do you think Navy pilots are like? Has McCain ever pretended to be anything else?

Like I said, he's not my guy- but he is what he is. And your nonsense about his treatment of his children is absurd. You just sit there and spew out propaganda that you've cut and pasted from Che's web sites. Are you really trying to make us believe that you're on a first name basis with McCain's wives? What's your point there?

Everyone who reads your silliness sees it for what it is - except you. I feel badly for you, bro. When you hit bottom from this I'm afraid that you're going to hit hard. But don't worry- I'll be there for you. I'll pick you up like a ragged drunk on the streets in the Bowery and help you to stagger back into a stream of conscious reasoning again. I'll be there for ya, bro! http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

McCain himself talked about this in an interview in Arizona. It's also common knowledge that McCain's children and him had a serious falling out over his abandoning their mother. Thank God they mended their relationship after a couple years.

McCain is a schmuck. Trust me...my dad walked out and abandoned me and my mother. Any man who would do such a thing is a straight up deadbeat.

At least Obama hasn't abandoned his wife and kids. Whatever we say about his politics, he has more character than McCain has.

[scotty]

Satan is faithful to his followers too, right up to the time he is stops being faithful.

I'm sorry, what was your point?

[pelathais]

McCain himself talked about this in an interview in Arizona. It's also common knowledge that McCain's children and him had a serious falling out over his abandoning their mother. Thank God they mended their relationship after a couple years.

McCain is a schmuck. Trust me...my dad walked out and abandoned me and my mother. Any man who would do such a thing is a straight up deadbeat.

At least Obama hasn't abandoned his wife and kids. Whatever we say about his politics, he has more character than McCain has.
I'm sorry about the pain you've experienced in your life. Not having a stable family in my background has been a source of sorrow in my own life. However, I've also learned that my own circumstances and experiences don't often correlate to those of others. McCain divorced his wife, yes; but it does not necessarily follow that he "abandoned" his children or shirked his responsibilities in other ways.

You're taking an undoubtedly painful and very personal failing of a total stranger and smearing him and his ex and their children. Running others down will not bring you any justice or a sense of closure for your own painful experiences.

Why don't we hit McCain for having a policy on Illegal Immigration that was even more "liberal" than Obama's? Or why don't we ask the tough questions about how the First Amendment was harmed by the McCain-Feingold Campaign Finance Bill?

There are plenty of real issues to hammer the guy on. The fact that he also behaves like the majority of men in America is not really a compelling argument against his candidacy. Didn't you ever hear what the First Lady, Mrs. Harding found in a closet in the White House kitchen back in the 1920's?

I fear that your emotional highs and lows on this reveal vulnerabilities that will only get you hurt. These politicians are goobers; you however, are a child of God.

[Sister Alvear]

As all know I am not political but I am reading you all´s posts...some almost seem childish...
sorry that does sound offensive but I do not mean it to be...

We do not see into people´s bedrooms to know the why´s of McCain...and believe me I think he is a long ways from holy however some of these threads amaze me at the mindset in our mist...
The anti- christ could easy take over and Pentecostals might be guilty of voting him in...

[scotty]

Thank God they mended their relationship after a couple years.

They repaired their relationship above, yet he is still a schmuck below.

McCain is a schmuck. Trust me...my dad walked out and abandoned me and my mother. Any man who would do such a thing is a straight up deadbeat.

At least Obama hasn't abandoned his wife and kids. Whatever we say about his politics, he has more character than McCain has.

So if Satan showed up with wife and kids he has been faithful to all along but still has no problem with killing a baby in the womb he would be better than one who was unfaithful yet reconcillary(sp)?

Has there been any study to effects of military life on his personal downfalls. I mean what kind of after effects is there to living in hole in the ground in a hostile country without any real since of hope. Not to mention the torture.

But your probably right, that wouldn't have any effect on a man whatsoever....sorry just thinking out loud...

[Ferd]

well.... independants that have opposed all things democrat.... constitutionalists....


you know, the usual suspects... the good guys.

but yea, Republicans get to talk about morality with other republicans. Democrats are not allowed to talk. period.

Gerry Studds
Barny Frank
Bill Clinton
Ted Kennedy
Robert Byrd

it isnt what they did, it is what their party defended.

Richard Nixon
Mark Foley
Bill Packwood
Bob Livingston
Trent Lott

it is what they did and it is what their party did about it.


Chris continues to post in this thread about McCains morality.

just want to balance that with the above...

Hypocracy runs rampant.

[ChristopherHall]

I'm sorry about the pain you've experienced in your life. Not having a stable family in my background has been a source of sorrow in my own life. However, I've also learned that my own circumstances and experiences don't often correlate to those of others. McCain divorced his wife, yes; but it does not necessarily follow that he "abandoned" his children or shirked his responsibilities in other ways.

McCain had extramarital affairs and left his wife and kids for a floosy he was sleeping around with. That's not the kind of man who should be President. Liberalism is a political position...but immoral character is immoral character. Divorce is the true enemy of the institution of marriage.

You're taking an undoubtedly painful and very personal failing of a total stranger and smearing him and his ex and their children. Running others down will not bring you any justice or a sense of closure for your own painful experiences.

McCain's a womanizing deadbeat.

Why don't we hit McCain for having a policy on Illegal Immigration that was even more "liberal" than Obama's? Or why don't we ask the tough questions about how the First Amendment was harmed by the McCain-Feingold Campaign Finance Bill?

You mean, why don't we look the other way about him sleeping around and ditching is family for some tramp?

There are plenty of real issues to hammer the guy on. The fact that he also behaves like the majority of men in America is not really a compelling argument against his candidacy. Didn't you ever hear what the First Lady, Mrs. Harding found in a closet in the White House kitchen back in the 1920's?

Not true. The man is unfaithful and emotionally unbalanced.

I fear that your emotional highs and lows on this reveal vulnerabilities that will only get you hurt. These politicians are goobers; you however, are a child of God.

According to most here I'm a godless socialist. Therefore all bets are off.

[ChristopherHall]

So if Satan showed up with wife and kids he has been faithful to all along but still has no problem with killing a baby in the womb he would be better than one who was unfaithful yet reconcillary(sp)?

Obama's position is consistent with current law. Obama hasn't forced a single woman to abort and he admits that these are tough issues. His position is that the government's ability to police abortion is limited, therefore choice and responsibility rests entirely on the woman choosing an abortion.

You see...you guys like to politicize abortion by blaming a political party and not the women who choose it. The government has taken a hands off approach to the matter. Now it's on women. The problem is women are tithe payers and church attendees. Most don't have the guts to tell women who have aborted that their godless murderers from the pulpit. Instead, it's much easier to politicize it and blame the Democrats. And it's important to note here, a growing number of Democrats are becoming pro-life, while a growing number of Republicans are becoming pro-choice. Within the next generation we'll see both parties becoming pro-choice with a pro-life minority voice in each.


Has there been any study to effects of military life on his personal downfalls. I mean what kind of after effects is there to living in hole in the ground in a hostile country without any real since of hope. Not to mention the torture.

No excuse. There are men who have endured worse and remained faithful to their families.

[Digging4Truth]

is McCain the Lessor of Two Evils?

I dunno.

Do you have any information whee McCain has leased one or more evils?

:)

[Ron]

I dunno.

Do you have any information whee McCain has leased one or more evils?

:)

:toofunny

[scotty]

Obama's position is consistent with current law. Obama hasn't forced a single woman to abort and he admits that these are tough issues. His position is that the government's ability to police abortion is limited, therefore choice and responsibility rests entirely on the woman choosing an abortion.

You see...you guys like to politicize abortion by blaming a political party and not the women who choose it. The government has taken a hands off approach to the matter. Now it's on women. The problem is women are tithe payers and church attendees. Most don't have the guts to tell women who have aborted that their godless murderers from the pulpit. Instead, it's much easier to politicize it and blame the Democrats. And it's important to note here, a growing number of Democrats are becoming pro-life, while a growing number of Republicans are becoming pro-choice. Within the next generation we'll see both parties becoming pro-choice with a pro-life minority voice in each.



No excuse. There are men who have endured worse and remained faithful to their families.

WOW , thats a serious slap in the face there brother, there are Iraqi veterans suffering from less treatment than that right know and it is destroying families and taking lives yet you write off any his experience as null and void? Thought you were the caring one here....

I don't know what else to type, I am truly shocked at the heartlessness of your remark, in one sentence you just told thousands of veterans that their experience in war time is no excuse for any suffering they may be going through.

I have had a comment in the back of my mind that I have kept there because in a round about way you haven't deserved it. Now you have.

In my opinion you should just pack your family up and move to Canada so you can have everything that makes you happy and you won't have to put up with us Americans anymore. I pray you do this. I am having enough problems paying for illegal immigrants without having to pay for "so called" "Americans". You no longer deserve the label.

[ChristopherHall]

WOW , thats a serious slap in the face there brother, there are Iraqi veterans suffering from less treatment than that right know and it is destroying families and taking lives yet you write off any his experience as null and void? Thought you were the caring one here....

I don't know what else to type, I am truly shocked at the heartlessness of your remark, in one sentence you just told thousands of veterans that their experience in war time is no excuse for any suffering they may be going through.

I have had a comment in the back of my mind that I have kept there because in a round about way you haven't deserved it. Now you have.

In my opinion you should just pack your family up and move to Canada so you can have everything that makes you happy and you won't have to put up with us Americans anymore. I pray you do this. I am having enough problems paying for illegal immigrants without having to pay for "so called" "Americans". You no longer deserve the label.

I meant that there's no excuse in not holding McCain responsible for his actions. There are many servicemen who have endured far worse and been faithful. Its you who think they are so incapable of being faithful after war time you're willing to excuse their immorality. I was in the military and let me tell you from personal experience...there are faithful men who remained faithful. These are men with guts and integrity. McCain has guts, I'll give him that. But integrity? Nope. No man who cheats on his wife and abandons her for some floosy should be revered as a Christian's candidate.

And now I no longer deserve the label of American because I disagree with you. You're a real piece of work. I served. Did you?

[Ferd]

I meant that there's no excuse in not holding McCain responsible for his actions. There are many servicemen who have endured far worse and been faithful. Its you who think they are so incapable of being faithful after war time you're willing to excuse their immorality. I was in the military and let me tell you from personal experience...there are faithful men who remained faithful. These are men with guts and integrity. McCain has guts, I'll give him that. But integrity? Nope. No man who cheats on his wife and abandons her for some floosy should be revered as a Christian's candidate.

And now I no longer deserve the label of American because I disagree with you. You're a real piece of work. I served. Did you?

I see you are still at it.

dude, dont you get it? CLEAN UP YOUR OWN HOUSE BEFORE TELLING US WHAT TO DO ABOUT OURS.

we can run a thice married womanizing by-sexual felandering child abandoning, manslaughterer and you dont get to say a stinking word.

[ChristopherHall]

Chris continues to post in this thread about McCains morality.

just want to balance that with the above...

Hypocracy runs rampant.

I think your post was fair. The point is...neither party is the "moral party". I think we can agree on that much.

Now that I'm judged as being a "socialist", been regarded as having compromised my Christianity, and now been labeled unAmerican, for merely disagreeing...what else can you guys call me?

[ChristopherHall]

I see you are still at it.

dude, dont you get it? CLEAN UP YOUR OWN HOUSE BEFORE TELLING US WHAT TO DO ABOUT OURS.

we can run a thice married womanizing by-sexual felandering child abandoning, manslaughterer and you dont get to say a stinking word.

It's a free country and I'll say what I like. You can fly to Ohio and hit me in the nose over it, if it will make you feel better. LOL

[ChristopherHall]

By the way...I think I'm still a registered Republican because I've never changed my registration and only voted Democratic two or three times. That is unless you, Ferd, are the sole authority on party membership. Tell me, what's you're position in the Republican Party?

[scotty]

I meant that there's no excuse in not holding McCain responsible for his actions. There are many servicemen who have endured far worse and been faithful. Its you who think they are so incapable of being faithful after war time you're willing to excuse their immorality. I was in the military and let me tell you from personal experience...there are faithful men who remained faithful. These are men with guts and integrity. McCain has guts, I'll give him that. But integrity? Nope. No man who cheats on his wife and abandons her for some floosy should be revered as a Christian's candidate.

And now I no longer deserve the label of American because I disagree with you. You're a real piece of work. I served. Did you?

Yes sir I sure did serve so you don't impress me with your service as you would others. But neither you nor anyone from Iraqi has been through what he went through. Veitnam vets suffered through things of which you and your boy scout service couldn't imagine. Do I dismiss his actions , no, do have enough understanding to realize there could have been underlying problems...yes. You write that off with your self righteous views like you actually have a clue. Yes sir I am a piece of work, I assure you of that.

[ChristopherHall]

Yes sir I sure did serve so you don't impress me with your service as you would others. But neither you nor anyone from Iraqi has been through what he went through. Veitnam vets suffered through things of which you and your boy scout service couldn't imagine. Do I dismiss his actions , no, do have enough understanding to realize there could have been underlying problems...yes. You write that off with your self righteous views like you actually have a clue. Yes sir I am a piece of work, I assure you of that.

Anybody can see there are underlying problems, possibly stemming from his time in Vietnam. The man was an emotional basket case. And honestly, I think he still is, that's my point. However, being a Vet doesn't exempt him from being responsible for adultery.

[scotty]

Anybody can see there are underlying problems, possibly stemming from his time in Vietnam. The man was an emotional basket case. And honestly, I think he still is, that's my point. However, being a Vet doesn't exempt him from being responsible for adultery.

(sigh)....I just said in the very post you quoted that it is not an excuse?!?! Did you not read that?? do I need to use a larger font??

You are trashing a mans personal life when you have no idea what he may have been going through. That alone is not very Christian of you, yet you stand on that label too. Your arguements are a joke.

[ChristopherHall]

(sigh)....I just said in the very post you quoted that it is not an excuse?!?! Did you not read that?? do I need to use a larger font??

You are trashing a mans personal life when you have no idea what he may have been going through. That alone is not very Christian of you, yet you stand on that label too. Your arguements are a joke.

Hey, what about Clinton? You had no idea what the man was going through. For crying out loud he was married to the Hilderbeast. lol

But McCain is still an emotional basket case who was committed to an adulterous affair to the point of divorcing his wife of 14 years.

By the way, according to you I'm not a Christian. So, why should I stand on the label?

[scotty]

Hey, what about Clinton? You had no idea what the man was going through. For crying out loud he was married to the Hilderbeast. lol

But McCain is still an emotional basket case who was committed to an adulterous affair to the point of divorcing his wife of 14 years.

Sorry,,, stupid argument just to vote Dem. We don't want their politics. We are going to get them because there are mush minded like you out there that vote. My only prayer is for the rapture before I have to endure too much ignorance.

[ChristopherHall]

Sorry,,, stupid argument just to vote Dem. We don't want their politics. We are going to get them because there are mush minded like you out there that vote. My only prayer is for the rapture before I have to endure too much ignorance.

You know Scotty, you've been real insulting to me just because I disagree with you on some things and don't like McCain. Do you think that's a Christlike thing to do?

[Ferd]

By the way...I think I'm still a registered Republican because I've never changed my registration and only voted Democratic two or three times. That is unless you, Ferd, are the sole authority on party membership. Tell me, what's you're position in the Republican Party?

by virtue of the current discussion and your solid position of support for liberalism and democrats in general.... as long as I have posted with you....


you are one of them. If I have to be the sole autority on the subject, so be it.

[ChristopherHall]

Let's make a deal. According to you, I'm no longer a real Christian, so I'll not stand on that label if it will make you feel better. And so you don't have to call me brother either. It's obvious from talking with you gents that disagreement with you precludes me from being a Christian and even an American. So, maybe that would be an acceptable agreement since disagreeing has cost me my faith, my citizenship, and even my freedom of speech?

[scotty]

You know Scotty, you've been real insulting to me just because I disagree with you on some things and don't like McCain. Do you think that's a Christlike thing to do?

I am insulting your insults. You are a pretty nice guy when your not acting as you accuse me of acting....its not the disagreement it is the way you right off peoples suffering and insult personal lives like you are some self righteous morale judge. You tell us we should believe you because you see it and have friends that live it , yet when speak of the same on our side you tell us we are lying or exagerating or confused or you just laugh at people. So I apologize if you feel I have insulted you
maybe you should reread your post before you post and think about whether or not you would accept what you are saying.

[ChristopherHall]

Let's make a deal. According to you, I'm no longer a real Christian, so I'll not stand on that label if it will make you feel better. And so you don't have to call me brother either. It's obvious from talking with you gents that disagreement with you precludes me from being a Christian and even an American. So, maybe that would be an acceptable agreement since disagreeing has cost me my faith, my citizenship, and even my freedom to comment?

[ChristopherHall]

I am insulting your insults. You are a pretty nice guy when your not acting as you accuse me of acting....its not the disagreement it is the way you right off peoples suffering and insult personal lives like you are some self righteous morale judge. You tell us we should believe you because you see it and have friends that live it , yet when speak of the same on our side you tell us we are lying or exagerating or confused or you just laugh at people. So I apologize if you feel I have insulted you
maybe you should reread your post before you post and think about whether or not you would accept what you are saying.

C'mon man. No need to patronize me. I never said anything about anyone's suffering. I'm sure McCain went through Hell. I see him as a man who should be held in high esteem, but not worthy of the Office of President. Obama is at least faithful to his wife, everything else is just a matter of political opinion.

McCain's still responsible for his actions. He's still a phony conservative.

McCain - A phony conservative who admits to womanizing and committing adultery. He then abandoned his wife to marry his cheep conquest.
Obama - A real liberal who has remained married to his first wife and remained a devoted father to his children.

With Obama the issues are his politics. With McCain, it's both his politics and his character.

[scotty]

C'mon man. No need to patronize me. I never said anything about anyone's suffering. I'm sure McCain went through Hell. I see him as a man who should be held in high esteem, but not worthy of the Office of President. Obama is at least faithful to his wife, everything else is just a matter of political opinion. But he's still responsible for his actions.

You can't pass your personal experience onto everyone brother. You gotta let your feelings about your father go. Its time to bury that and get on with life. Your decisions because of it have you supporting more immoral behavior than McCain could ever promote...

Personally I wanted Huckabee

[Ferd]

Chris did you vote for Bill Clinton the second time he ran?

[Ferd]

C'mon man. No need to patronize me. I never said anything about anyone's suffering. I'm sure McCain went through Hell. I see him as a man who should be held in high esteem, but not worthy of the Office of President. Obama is at least faithful to his wife, everything else is just a matter of political opinion.

McCain's still responsible for his actions. He's still a phony conservative.

McCain - A phony conservative who admits to womanizing and committing adultery. He then abandoned his wife to marry his cheep conquest.
Obama - A real liberal who has remained married to his first wife and remained a devoted father to his children.

With Obama the issues are his politics. With McCain, it's both his politics and his character.


most important point of the above post (that is also accurate)

[Nina]

Obama's position is consistent with current law. Obama hasn't forced a single woman to abort and he admits that these are tough issues. His position is that the government's ability to police abortion is limited, therefore choice and responsibility rests entirely on the woman choosing an abortion.

You see...you guys like to politicize abortion by blaming a political party and not the women who choose it. The government has taken a hands off approach to the matter. Now it's on women. The problem is women are tithe payers and church attendees. Most don't have the guts to tell women who have aborted that their godless murderers from the pulpit. Instead, it's much easier to politicize it and blame the Democrats. And it's important to note here, a growing number of Democrats are becoming pro-life, while a growing number of Republicans are becoming pro-choice. Within the next generation we'll see both parties becoming pro-choice with a pro-life minority voice in each.



No excuse. There are men who have endured worse and remained faithful to their families.



Brother,
Mr Obama wouldn't even vote to ban partial-birth abortions!
Nina

[scotty]

Brother,
Mr Obama wouldn't even vote to ban partial-birth abortions!
Nina


You know, we can debate this across all of these pages and one sister says this and I want to cry. We as men could never understand what this means to a woman. And you can try to write it off all you want to, but if any Republican President could overturn Roe vs Wade and get it to pass, he would. You can't say that about any Democrat, (except maybe Liberman)