View Full Version : The Key to Salvation is... the Book of Acts...
revrandy
02-21-2008, 07:21 PM
Following the Book...and using the Key to walk thru the Door into the Throne Room of God...
Repentance...
Baptism in Jesus Name...
and the Infilling of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in an unknown tongue...
Anything else is a Half-truth, if not false Doctrine...
The 120 including Mary the mother of Jesus and his brothers were there...
Even Mary who carried the Christ child had to be filled with the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in other tongues....
Three steps is a complete misnomer..it is the entire experiance of the infilling and indwelling of God's Spirit in Man....
Anything else is simply not acceptable... how could it be??
Unless you take out the entire Book of the Acts of the Apostles...
Then the Comforter is of none importance and effect only impressionistic on the soul man instead of the infilling of the Holy Ghost...
God is the judge we know..but when it comes that time for me and you to stand before him... What will your answer be when you tell him you didn't believe His Spirit in You was necessary for Salvation... and His Plan wasn't your Plan??
I will tell you...YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN!! And it's not just acceptance of a Good Word...but you MUST BE FILLED WITH THE HOLY GHOST!..... It's the only way a Supernatural Change will come into to your life...
period...
Cindy
02-21-2008, 07:48 PM
Preach!
JamDat
02-21-2008, 08:01 PM
Truth is truth and always will be truth. The book of Acts is the foundation that Jesus laid down in me when I was born again. No man better dare to attempt and build from a different blueprint. They will fail.
Amen RevRandy
period...
ChurchMouse
02-21-2008, 09:15 PM
AMEN !!!:hanky:hanky
Mrs. LPW
02-21-2008, 09:17 PM
Acts of the Apostles
Amen Randy
OneAccord
02-21-2008, 10:30 PM
The Holy Ghost... just what does He do? I use the masculine pronoun HE because the Holy Ghost is, in reality, God IN us. (God is a He, not an It).
1. The Holy Ghost testifies of Jesus. Jhn 15:26
2. He teaches ALL things. Jhn 14:26
3. he brings Jesus' Words to our remembrance. Jhn 14:26
4. He abides with us FOREVER Jhn 14:16
5. He gives us the words to speak. Mar 13:11
6. He comes upon us. Luk 1:35
7. He fills us. Luk 1:67
8. He reveals God's Word to us. Luk 2:26
9. He gives us power from on high. Luk 24:49
10. He falls upon us. Act 11:15
11. He speaks to us. Act 13:2
12. He baptizes (submerges, dips) us. Act 1:5
13. He send us forth into the ministry. Act 13:4
14. He enables us to "speak with other tongues". Act 2:4
15. He gives us boldness to speak. Act 4:13
16, He bears witness the things of God Act 5:32
17. He gives power to do "great wonders and miracles". Act 6:8
18. He gives us unresistable wisdom to speak. Act 6:10
19. He gives us visions. Act 7:55 And in dreams. Act 2:17
20. He comforts us. Act 9:31
21. He interupts our speaking to perform His work. Act 10:44
22. he bides us to go, without doubts. Act 11:12
23. He reveals sin to us. Act 13:9
24. He forbids us from violating God's will. Act 16:6
25. He speaks to us through prophecy. Act 21:4
26. He takes away our condemnation. Rom 8:1
27. He sets us free from the Law. Rom 8:2
28. He gives us our spirituality. Rom 8:5
29. He quickens our mortal body. Rom 8:11
30. He mortifies the sinful deeds of the flesh. Rom 8:13
31. Hes leads us to become the sons of God. Rom 8:14
32. He bears witness with our spirit that we are God's children. Rom 8:16
33. He helps our infirmities, and makes intercession for us. Rom 8:26
34. He enables us to "abound in hope". Rom 15:13
35. He sancitifies us. Rom 15:16
36. He enpowers us to preach the Gospel. Rom 15:19
37. He searches the deep things of God. 1Cr 2:10
38. He dwells within us. 1Cr 3:16
39. He washes, sanctifies ans justifies us. 1Cr 6:11
40. He enables to say Jesus is Lord. 1Cr 12:3
41. He enables us to be used in His Gifts. 1Cr 12:8-11
42. He baptizes us into the Body of Christ. 1Cr 12:13
43. He gives us liberty. 2Cr 3:17
44. He changes us to Gods image. 2Cr 3:18
45. He proves us as ministers of God. 2Cr 6:4-7
46. He wars against our flesh. Gal 5:17
47. He provides the Friut if the Spirit. Gal 5:21-23
48. He allows us to walk in the Spirit. Gal 5:25
49. He seals us. Eph 1:13
50. He gives us access to the Father. Eph 2:18
51. He builds us up together as a temple unto God. Eph 2:22
52. He reveals the hidden mystery of Christ. Eph 3:4
53. He provides the Unity of the church. Eph 4:3
54. He helps us to overcome with God's Word. Eph 6:17
55. He gives us one mind, and brings us together in one accord. Phl 2:1-2
56. He brings God's Word to us with power. 1Th 1:5
57. He speaks expressly (clearly) against false teaching. 1Ti 4:1
58. He has made us taste and partake of the heavenly gift. Hbr 6:4
59. He purifies our souls by our obeying God's Word. 1Pe 1:22
60. He moves on us to speak God's Word. 2Pe 1:21
61. He confesses that Jesus has come in the flesh. 1Jo 4:2
62. He is the Spirit of Truth. 1Jo 5:6
63. He bears record in heaven with the Father and Son, for the three are one. 1Jo 5:7
64. He bears witness on earth with blood and water, for the three agree as one. 1Jo 5:8
65. He builds up our faith. Jud 1:20
66. He guides us into all truth, and reveals things to come. Jhn 16:13
67. He is truth. 1Jo 5:6
68. He leads us to a life of consecration. Mat 4:1
69. He calls men and women, young and old to fullfill His mission. Act 2:17-18
Here are 69 things the Holy Ghost does for, and through, us. Now...I ask... who in their right mind would ever believe they don't need the Holy Ghost!?!
Joelel
02-21-2008, 10:55 PM
Yes let's do believe the book of Acts.
This tongue talking was referred to as prophecy,Why ? Because the people understood what was being said.They were giving prophecy to these people in their own tongue.The following scripture will teach us this.When the pentecostals say they are filled with the Holy Ghost and speak in tongues no one understands.
Acts2:
1: And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2: And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3: And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4: And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5: And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
6: Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
7: And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8: And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
9: Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10: Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
11: Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. 12: And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
13: Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
14: But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
15: For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
16: But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17: And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy
What happened to your prophecy and dreams and visions when your filled with the Holy Ghost ?
Believe what God says NOT man.God said they would prophesy and have dreams and visions when he pours out his Spirit.Acts.2:16: But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel.17: And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams.
The word prophecy means to preach and teach and fortell.We all prophecy or witness.We prophecy to people in their own tongue (language) as they did on the day of pentecost and other times as written in the book of acts or we prophecy to people in our own tongue (language).Acts1:8: But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
Joelel
02-21-2008, 11:12 PM
Please note what happened here.Acts4:4.First the disciples were preaching and got 5,000 new believers but they were not filled with the Holy Ghost yet.Then later they went back to their own company of 5,000 new believers and prayed for them and they were filled with the Holy Ghost and spoke the word of God with boldness (Prophecy).They didn't speak with tongues when they were filled this first time, verse 23-31
23: And being let go, they went to their own company,(5000 new believers) and reported all that the chief priests and elders had said unto them.29: And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they (NOTE they NOT US) may speak thy word
30 By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus.:31: And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they(5000 new believers) were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.(prophecy)
Joelel
02-21-2008, 11:17 PM
On the day of Pentecost they were prophesying in tongues and it was being interpreted in 17 different tongues from the mouths of the speakers to the ears of the hearers
(Ways tongues is interpreted,)1 Cor.14: 6. Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
(On the day of Pentecost it was interpreted because all the hearers understood in their own language.So there was the gift of tongues and the interpretation of tongues and prophecy.Three gifts on the day of Pentecost.)Acts2:[8] And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
revrandy
02-21-2008, 11:23 PM
Joelel...
The 120 in the Upper Room were speaking in an unknown tongue to them.... they were Gallileans.. and yet they were speaking multiple langauges...
Are you denying that speaking in Tongues is not a part of the New Birth??
and if you are...You are Wrong... it is very important for the New Believer to be filled with the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues....which are unknown to the speaker... as they were unknown to those who were in the Upper Room... which were made known to those who did not have the Holy Ghost but was a witness to them by a Supernatural Work of God...
:hmmm....
nahkoe
02-21-2008, 11:28 PM
Joelel...
The 120 in the Upper Room were speaking in an unknown tongue to them.... they were Gallileans.. and yet they were speaking multiple langauges...
Are you denying that speaking in Tongues is not a part of the New Birth??
and if you are...You are Wrong... it is very important for the New Believer to be filled with the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues....which are unknown to the speaker... as they were unknown to those who were in the Upper Room... which were made known to those who did not have the Holy Ghost but was a witness to them by a Supernatural Work of God...
:hmmm....
Something I've been musing lately. I've been studying original language some. I'm realizing that some passages don't say quite what I thought they did.
What if the passage describing the day of Pentecost is one of those places that has a different meaning in Greek than in English? What if that meaning can't be reconciled with what's being taught in Pentecostal churches?
Don't really want an answer, just something I've been pondering. There are a few other passages that would completely shatter my world view if they weren't what I thought they were. I've been thinking over how I might handle that.
Following the Book...and using the Key to walk thru the Door into the Throne Room of God...
Repentance...
Baptism in Jesus Name...
and the Infilling of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in an unknown tongue...
Anything else is a Half-truth, if not false Doctrine...
The 120 including Mary the mother of Jesus and his brothers were there...
Even Mary who carried the Christ child had to be filled with the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in other tongues....
Three steps is a complete misnomer..it is the entire experiance of the infilling and indwelling of God's Spirit in Man....
Anything else is simply not acceptable... how could it be??
Unless you take out the entire Book of the Acts of the Apostles...
Then the Comforter is of none importance and effect only impressionistic on the soul man instead of the infilling of the Holy Ghost...
God is the judge we know..but when it comes that time for me and you to stand before him... What will your answer be when you tell him you didn't believe His Spirit in You was necessary for Salvation... and His Plan wasn't your Plan??
I will tell you...YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN!! And it's not just acceptance of a Good Word...but you MUST BE FILLED WITH THE HOLY GHOST!..... It's the only way a Supernatural Change will come into to your life...
period...
That whole speach without once mentioning the Cross of Calvary.
You go by way of Acts 2:38 once.
You do not dip again when falling short in your walk.
You go back to the plan of Gods salvation.
His shedding "His" blood for you, before the foundations of the World.
Some spend their entire ministry preaching about what they have to do to be saved.
And gloss right over what God did for us...
I know you assume the world knows as you mention Acts 2:38 you lump in the cross by repentance.
The sinner on the street has no way of knowing Repentance equals the cross...
You simply need to preach Jesus Christ and him crucified.
To them that believe "The preaching of the Cross". It is the power of God.
Do not put your repentance as a type of the Cross in the literal meaning of what Christ did for you.
Get a vision of the sorrow, shame and anguish he suffered for you.
Then repent and .....
SO many want to repent and call that their cross experience.
Your belief is Jesus dying for your sins preceeds repentance.
Otherwise your repentance is sorrow and not a turning of one's heart from sin towards the Cross of Calvary....
There is a deeper meaning for me regarding the cross of calvary then just a step in a salvational formula...
I do not overlook Acts 2:38.
I preach the cross as the starting place for a sinner to repent.
How will they know the cross if all you preach is Acts 2:38.
Period.
revrandy
02-21-2008, 11:31 PM
Something I've been musing lately. I've been studying original language some. I'm realizing that some passages don't say quite what I thought they did.
What if the passage describing the day of Pentecost is one of those places that has a different meaning in Greek than in English? What if that meaning can't be reconciled with what's being taught in Pentecostal churches?
Don't really want an answer, just something I've been pondering. There are a few other passages that would completely shatter my world view if they weren't what I thought they were. I've been thinking over how I might handle that.
What have you found and what text are you studing?
revrandy
02-21-2008, 11:38 PM
That whole speach without once mentioning the Cross of Calvary.
You go by way of Acts 2:38 once.
You do not dip again when falling short in your walk.
You go back to the plan of Gods salvation.
His shedding "His" blood for you, before the foundations of the World.
Some spend their entire ministry preaching about what they have to do to be saved.
And gloss right over what God did for us...
I know you assume the world knows as you mention Acts 2:38 you lump in the cross by repentance.
The sinner on the street has no way of knowing Repentance equals the cross...
You simply need to preach Jesus Christ and him crucified.
To them that believe "The preaching of the Cross". It is the power of God.
Do not put your repentance as a type of the Cross in the literal meaning of what Christ did for you.
Get a vision of the sorrow, shame and anguish he suffered for you.
Then repent and .....
SO many want to repent and call that their cross experience.
Your belief is Jesus dying for your sins preceeds repentance.
Otherwise your repentance is sorrow and not a turning of one's heart from sin towards the Cross of Calvary....
There is a deeper meaning for me regarding the cross of calvary then just a step in likeness to his death...
Period.
Without Calvary the Book of Acts would have not Been written.. Most here on AFF already that know that... We are not talking to sinners on this forum...I can understand your point in dealing with Sinners..but here people are educated as to the Work of Calvary and the Book of Acts... but some here try to cheapen the Gospel's Work by negating what the Word of God says we must to do to be complete in Him...
a Good Point to prove though ... Romans...Corinthians and so on were written to folks who had already been filled with the Holy Ghost... who understood what the New Birth was.... many try apply these writings to new believers when preaching salvation leaving Acts out... but in fact just as I wrote to those here on AFF that already believe and are filled with the Holy Ghost... Paul was writing to Churches already filled believers also...
Thanks..
Joelel
02-21-2008, 11:45 PM
Joelel...
The 120 in the Upper Room were speaking in an unknown tongue to them.... they were Gallileans.. and yet they were speaking multiple langauges...
Are you denying that speaking in Tongues is not a part of the New Birth??
and if you are...You are Wrong... it is very important for the New Believer to be filled with the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues....which are unknown to the speaker... as they were unknown to those who were in the Upper Room... which were made known to those who did not have the Holy Ghost but was a witness to them by a Supernatural Work of God...
:hmmm....
Yes they were all Gallileans but the people that was hearing them speak spoke different langauges and they was hearing in their own langauges.
1: And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2: And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3: And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4: And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5: And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. 6: Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
7: And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? 8: And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
9: Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10: Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
11: Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
12: And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
13: Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
14: But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
15: For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
16: But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17: And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy
revrandy
02-21-2008, 11:46 PM
Yes they were all Gallileans but but the people that was hearing them speak spoke different langauges and they was hearing in their own langauges.
1: And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2: And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3: And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4: And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5: And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. 6: Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
7: And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? 8: And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
9: Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10: Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
11: Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
12: And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
13: Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
14: But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
15: For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
16: But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17: And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy
Not doubting any of this.. but the tongue they were speaking in was still unknown to they who were speaking in tongues..do you deny this??
Joelel
02-21-2008, 11:54 PM
On the day of Pentecost tongues was understood.What did Paul say about tongues that were not understood?Paul wrote in Cor. 14: 1: Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.2: For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.3: But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.4: He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.5: I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying
revrandy
02-21-2008, 11:58 PM
On the day of Pentecost tongues was understood.What did Paul say about tongues that were not understood?Paul wrote in Cor. 14: 1: Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.2: For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.3: But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.4: He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.5: I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying
Joelel,
Your a bit off subject... answer the question..Did the Gallileans on the Day of Pentecost speak in a unknown tongue to them or not?
You know the answer...they did... the Gallileans were speaking in languages of far off lands.... don't evade the issue here..
I will say that if you haven't repented or been baptized in Jesus Name and been filled with the Holy Ghost I pray that you will soon... It will be the greatest experiance of your life...
Joelel
02-21-2008, 11:59 PM
Not doubting any of this.. but the tongue they were speaking in was still unknown to they who were speaking in tongues..do you deny this??
Yes it was unknown to the about 120 who were speaking but the about 3000 that was hearing was hearing in their own tongue.
revrandy
02-22-2008, 12:00 AM
Yes it was unknown to the about 120 who were speaking but the about 3000 that was hearing was hearing in their own tongue.
And when the 3000 who were filled with the Holy Ghost do you think that they spoke in a Known tongue to them?
Joelel
02-22-2008, 12:15 AM
Joelel,
Your a bit off subject... answer the question..Did the Gallileans on the Day of Pentecost speak in a unknown tongue to them or not?
You know the answer...they did... the Gallileans were speaking in languages of far off lands.... don't evade the issue here..
I will say that if you haven't repented or been baptized in Jesus Name and been filled with the Holy Ghost I pray that you will soon... It will be the greatest experiance of your life...
Yes it was unknown to the 120 but not the 3000 they were speaking to.They were not speaking to God in unknown tongues.They were speaking in tongues of men.It was referred to as other tongues,not unknown.
.2: For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.3
Acts1:4: And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Without Calvary the Book of Acts would have not Been written.. Most here on AFF already that know that... We are not talking to sinners on this forum...I can understand your point in dealing with Sinners..but here people are educated as to the Work of Calvary and the Book of Acts... but some here try to cheapen the Gospel's Work by negating what the Word of God says we must to do to be complete in Him...
a Good Point to prove though ... Romans...Corinthians and so on were written to folks who had already been filled with the Holy Ghost... who understood what the New Birth was.... many try apply these writings to new believers when preaching salvation leaving Acts out... but in fact just as I wrote to those here on AFF that already believe and are filled with the Holy Ghost... Paul was writing to Churches already filled believers also...
Thanks..
The Jews to this day can not speak the name of God. Because they refused to speak it.
Your ongoing educated walk with God takes you back to the cross of calvary on a daily basis.
Our Acts 2:38 experience took place once in our salvational journey.
Most of the educated folks on this forum.
Have forgotten the preaching of the cross is the power of God!
The power of God to do what?
To save the sinner.
You are not going to win over masses of the denominational church world.\
Nor will you save sinners by preaching a formula first.
You have to preach the cross of calvary.
If the cross of calvary were preached on regular basis.
Such as when you sin you put to death a fresh the Son of God.
Acts 2:38 should always be preached at the end of a sermon preached on the cross.
But many want to open with Acts 2:38.
If I use your educated argument.
Stop preaching Acts 2:38 many on this forum have been hearing it for so long long that page is completly worn out in our bibles...
Joelel
02-22-2008, 12:20 AM
And when the 3000 who were filled with the Holy Ghost do you think that they spoke in a Known tongue to them?
It don't say they did.It don't say they spoke in known or unknown or other.
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41: Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
42: And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
43: And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.
44: And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
45: And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
46: And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
47: Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
Joelel
02-22-2008, 12:34 AM
Following the Book...and using the Key to walk thru the Door into the Throne Room of God...
Repentance...
Baptism in Jesus Name...
and the Infilling of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in an unknown tongue...
Anything else is a Half-truth, if not false Doctrine...
The 120 including Mary the mother of Jesus and his brothers were there...
Even Mary who carried the Christ child had to be filled with the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in other tongues....
Three steps is a complete misnomer..it is the entire experiance of the infilling and indwelling of God's Spirit in Man....
Anything else is simply not acceptable... how could it be??
Unless you take out the entire Book of the Acts of the Apostles...
Then the Comforter is of none importance and effect only impressionistic on the soul man instead of the infilling of the Holy Ghost...
God is the judge we know..but when it comes that time for me and you to stand before him... What will your answer be when you tell him you didn't believe His Spirit in You was necessary for Salvation... and His Plan wasn't your Plan??
I will tell you...YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN!! And it's not just acceptance of a Good Word...but you MUST BE FILLED WITH THE HOLY GHOST!..... It's the only way a Supernatural Change will come into to your life...
period...
I'm sorry if you think tongues is off the subject,but your the one who started the subject salvation is the book of Acts and said you receive the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues.I just showed the scripture where God said he would pour out his Spirit and they would Prophecy and have dreams and visions.Why can't people be filled withe the Holy Ghost and prophecy and have dreams and visions as God said ?
Brother Price
02-22-2008, 04:15 AM
The Key To Salvation is found within the Gospels. Those keys were given to Peter, and he preached the Gospel in Acts. Afterwards, when the hearts of the people were pricked, Peter told them to repent, and be baptized for (because of) the remission of sins in the name of Jesus Christ.
In truth, the truth of salvation is found in Ephesians 2:8-9, the most ignored scriptures in Pentecost today...
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. {Ephesians 2:8-9}
It is by the favor of God we have been saved because we have believed. Nothing of our own physical works could or can save us, and nothing another man does to us can save us. It is God's gift of love poured out upon our heart through Christ. It is not through what we have done or what another does to us, so that no man shall be able to brag and say that they had a hand in our salvation.
Brother Price
02-22-2008, 04:20 AM
One additional point. Throughout the Acts, men and women were filled with the Spirit before their baptism. Jesus said His disciples would be the ones to receive the Holy Ghost. Thus, one must be His disciple to get the baptism of the Holy Ghost.
How could God dwell in an unclean vessel according to modern Pentecost theory? Does this mean that, prior to these souls being baptized, God had fellowship with their sins?
JamDat
02-22-2008, 06:47 AM
That whole speach without once mentioning the Cross of Calvary.
You go by way of Acts 2:38 once.
You do not dip again when falling short in your walk.
You go back to the plan of Gods salvation.
His shedding "His" blood for you, before the foundations of the World.
Some spend their entire ministry preaching about what they have to do to be saved.
And gloss right over what God did for us...
I know you assume the world knows as you mention Acts 2:38 you lump in the cross by repentance.
The sinner on the street has no way of knowing Repentance equals the cross...
You simply need to preach Jesus Christ and him crucified.
To them that believe "The preaching of the Cross". It is the power of God.
Do not put your repentance as a type of the Cross in the literal meaning of what Christ did for you.
Get a vision of the sorrow, shame and anguish he suffered for you.
Then repent and .....
SO many want to repent and call that their cross experience.
Your belief is Jesus dying for your sins preceeds repentance.
Otherwise your repentance is sorrow and not a turning of one's heart from sin towards the Cross of Calvary....
There is a deeper meaning for me regarding the cross of calvary then just a step in a salvational formula...
I do not overlook Acts 2:38.
I preach the cross as the starting place for a sinner to repent.
How will they know the cross if all you preach is Acts 2:38.
Period.
Sorry bub, but he didn't single out Acts 2:38. If you reread his post he used the entire book of Acts. If you can't find calvary in chapter 2 between verses 22 and 37 you are willingly being ignorant.
The key to salvation is in the book of Acts the whole book and what RevRandy posted is the gospel truth.
drummerboy_dave
02-22-2008, 06:54 AM
This thread is great.
I don't see the problem here.
Jesus is the door. Peter shows us the key to open it.
Period.
Pressing-On
02-22-2008, 07:02 AM
Without Calvary the Book of Acts would have not Been written.. Most here on AFF already that know that... We are not talking to sinners on this forum...I can understand your point in dealing with Sinners..but here people are educated as to the Work of Calvary and the Book of Acts... but some here try to cheapen the Gospel's Work by negating what the Word of God says we must to do to be complete in Him...
a Good Point to prove though ... Romans...Corinthians and so on were written to folks who had already been filled with the Holy Ghost... who understood what the New Birth was.... many try apply these writings to new believers when preaching salvation leaving Acts out... but in fact just as I wrote to those here on AFF that already believe and are filled with the Holy Ghost... Paul was writing to Churches already filled believers also...
Thanks..
Amen!
Romans 1:7 "To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints:"
I Corinthians 1:2 "Unto the church of God which is at Corinth,"
II Corinthians 1:1 "Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:
Galatians 1:2 "And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:"
Ephesians 1:1 "Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:"
Philippians 1:1 "Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi,"
Colossians 1:2 "To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse:"
I Thessalonians 1:1 "Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ:"
II Thessalonians 1:1 "Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:"
I Peter 1: 2 "Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.'
II Peter 1:1 "Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:"
revrandy
02-22-2008, 07:03 AM
This thread is great.
I don't see the problem here.
Jesus is the door. Peter shows us the key to open it.
Period.
Period!!
Pressing-On
02-22-2008, 07:05 AM
Period!!
Period!!!
Amen!!
revrandy
02-22-2008, 07:05 AM
Great Point PO!!
Pressing-On
02-22-2008, 07:11 AM
Great Point PO!!
Just backing up what you said with scripture! Can't argue with that, right? lol
RandyWayne
02-22-2008, 07:12 AM
I'm sorry if you think tongues is off the subject,but your the one who started the subject salvation is the book of Acts and said you receive the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues.I just showed the scripture where God said he would pour out his Spirit and they would Prophecy and have dreams and visions.Why can't people be filled withe the Holy Ghost and prophecy and have dreams and visions as God said ?
Whats more, we don't we require the appearance of a tongue-like flame above the head of everyone as a true sign of infilling? It happened in the book of Acts......
revrandy
02-22-2008, 07:12 AM
Scripture does NOT contradict itself...
Monkeyman
02-22-2008, 07:24 AM
Hey Randy...........PREACH!!!!!!!!! *B-3 Hammond* You the man bro, keep it up!
We had a HG blow-out this weekend...including, a girl who started to speak in tongues in the pew where two Philipino young men sitting in front of her understood what she said...they told our Pastor she was speaking their language!!!!!!!
OneAccord
02-22-2008, 07:43 AM
Several years ago, a preacher friend of mine was sick. Very sick. Another brother who had been working among a tribe of American Indians out west and I went to pray for and visit the sick brother. As we prayed, the Lord spoke a word of prophecy to me, that seemed, well, outlandish to me. So I asked the Lord for confirmation. I sat there speaking in tongues as we prayed. The brother who served as a missionary out west spoke up, and said, "You know, Brother, the tongues you are speaking in sounds very much like the Apache Language." That was all the confirmation I needed. I stood up and spoke, "When your enemies think you have fallen, and will not rise, then I will raise you up, and send you from this place to minister the Gospel to the American Indians". The brother was healed, and, a few months later, resigned his church and went west. He had a very fruitful ministry in New Mexico, Arizona and Colorado, working among the Indians.
Enjoying the thread, RevRandy.
Jesus is the Key to Salvation and the Door.
Mrs. LPW
02-22-2008, 08:15 AM
Brother Price;397688]In truth, the truth of salvation is found in Ephesians 2:8-9, the most ignored scriptures in Pentecost today...
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. {Ephesians 2:8-9}
I can't speak for every last preacher in Pentecost today, for certain. But I can speak for the many I've known. And I have yet to meet one who hasn't preached God's grace and unmerited favor. I have yet to meet one who was afraid to quote Ephesians 2... All of the preachers I have known have been grateful for the Grace that saved them and us. Amazing Grace... how sweet the sound. I don't know anyone who has ignored this scripture.
In fact, this scripture was written to people who were still trying to keep the Old Testement law, and expecting everyone to do so... the "works" referred to in this passage have nothing to do with our being Baptised in that beautiful name of Jesus when we've repented.
None of us can merit our salvation, and I've never heard a preacher preach that you could.
The Acts of the Apostles are written so we know how, when, where, why, who, and the like... when the church was born. How the Jews and Gentiles were both brought through the same door with the same keys.
revrandy
02-22-2008, 08:52 AM
Jesus is the Key to Salvation and the Door.
Knowing Him won't save you....Obeying Him Will...
Sorry bub, but he didn't single out Acts 2:38. If you reread his post he used the entire book of Acts. If you can't find calvary in chapter 2 between verses 22 and 37 you are willingly being ignorant.
The key to salvation is in the book of Acts the whole book and what RevRandy posted is the gospel truth.
You should not have to find the Cross of Calvary like finding an egg on easter.
You should take folks directly to the cross.
Notice your own words the Cross is visited before verse 38.
That is my only message.... Bub!
revrandy
02-22-2008, 09:37 AM
You should not have to find the Cross of Calvary like finding an egg on easter.
You should take folks directly to the cross.
Notice your own words the Cross is visited before verse 38.
That is my only message.... Bub!
The Cross is everything that Jesus Christ did for us... but it did not empower us.. We receive Power after that the Holy Ghost is come upon us... That the Work of the Cross is completed in our lives daily... The Work of Mercy is sufficient in our hearts and The Work of Grace in our minds...
Bro. I will lead folks who don't know our Savior to the Cross but also to the Resurrection and to the Upper Room...
Don't let the Cross become a Crutch... Because it Held the Savior but it had to let the Savior go.... Because what came next is what happens in every life who receives the Holy Ghost... the Resurrection....
Pressing-On
02-22-2008, 09:39 AM
The Cross is everything that Jesus Christ did for us... but it did not empower us.. We receive Power after that the Holy Ghost is come upon us... That the Work of the Cross is completed in our lives daily... The Work of Mercy is sufficient in our hearts and The Work of Grace in our minds...
Bro. I will lead folks who don't know our Savior to the Cross but also to the Resurrection and to the Upper Room...
Don't let the Cross become a Crutch... Because it Held the Savior but it had to let the Savior go.... Because what came next is what happens in every life who receives the Holy Ghost... the Resurrection....
LORD HAVE MERCY - PREACH IT!
:shockamoo :shockamoo
The Cross is everything that Jesus Christ did for us... but it did not empower us.. We receive Power after that the Holy Ghost is come upon us... That the Work of the Cross is completed in our lives daily... The Work of Mercy is sufficient in our hearts and The Work of Grace in our minds...
Bro. I will lead folks who don't know our Savior to the Cross but also to the Resurrection and to the Upper Room...
Don't let the Cross become a Crutch... Because it Held the Savior but it had to let the Savior go.... Because what came next is what happens in every life who receives the Holy Ghost... the Resurrection....
When Neck speaks of the Cross ... he speaks of the Work of the Lamb ... both his death and resurrection ... it is HIS RESURRECTION that empowers us to new LIFE through His Spirit ....
Joelel
02-22-2008, 09:41 AM
One additional point. Throughout the Acts, men and women were filled with the Spirit before their baptism. Jesus said His disciples would be the ones to receive the Holy Ghost. Thus, one must be His disciple to get the baptism of the Holy Ghost.
How could God dwell in an unclean vessel according to modern Pentecost theory? Does this mean that, prior to these souls being baptized, God had fellowship with their sins?
Yes a person must have faith and or believe first,if they don't they sure woun't get baptized and get filled with the Spirit.The truth is there is a process of salvation that takes place.Jesus said you must be born again of water and Spirit.You guys gut totally ignor other scripture.
John.3
[3] Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
[4] Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
[5] Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
[6] That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
[7] Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
He saved us by what ?
Tit.3
[5] Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Pressing-On
02-22-2008, 09:45 AM
When Neck speaks of the Cross ... he speaks of the Work of the Lamb ... both his death and resurrection ... it is HIS RESURRECTION that empowers us to new through His Spirit ....
Through his Spirit is correct, Daniel! Without the death, burial and resurrection you couldn't preach to those that ask - "What shall we do?"
What did Peter tell them they needed to do? It couldn't be more simple, IMMHO!
Knowing Him won't save you....Obeying Him Will...
He becomes our obedience through faith at the point of faith ... it's his righteousness imputed on us that justifies us .... and it is through faith.
This assertion that somehow we are merely adovating Knowing Him is hooey. It's not mere mental assent ... and you know it.
Obedience to your three step plan w/o faith is null and void.
The issue will always when and what regenerates the rest is OBSFUCATION.
Pressing-On
02-22-2008, 09:46 AM
He becomes our obedience through faith at the point of faith ... it's his righteousness imputed on us that justifies us .... and it is through faith.
This assertion that somehow we are merely adovating Knowing Him is hooey. It's not mere mental assent ... and you know it.
Obedience to your three step plan w/o faith is null and void.
The issue will always when and what regenerates the rest is OBSFUCATION.
Why would someone obey the "Three-step plan" if they didn't have faith, Daniel?
revrandy
02-22-2008, 09:46 AM
Yes a person must have faith and or believe first,if they don't they sure woun't get baptized and get filled with the Spirit.The truth is there is a process of salvation that takes place.Jesus said you must be born again of water and Spirit.You guys gut totally ignor other scripture.
John.3
[3] Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
[4] Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
[5] Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
[6] That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
[7] Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
He saved us by what ?
Tit.3
[5] Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Romans 10:17
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Yes a person must have faith and or believe first,if they don't they sure woun't get baptized and get filled with the Spirit.The truth is there is a process of salvation that takes place.Jesus said you must be born again of water and Spirit.You guys gut totally ignor other scripture.
John.3
[3] Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
[4] Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
[5] Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
[6] That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
[7] Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
He saved us by what ?
Tit.3
[5] Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
You know full well that water or washing does not exclusively mean water baptism in Scripture ... It is you that ignores ... as you ignore that water baptism is NOT DIRECTLY REFERENCED IN BOTH OF THE SCRIPTURES YOU QUOTED. It's more theological and verbal acrobatics.
Unfortunately, when my 3 step brethren see as much as a puddle in the word of God .. they equate it to the biblical ordinance of water baptism.
Being born from above [gennatha anothen], as found in John, is exactly that ... a work which rests entirely on the Holy Spirit through placing our trust in the Son of God.
Our warrior friend Adino said it best:
I understand the underlying Greek structure of John 3:5 speaks of a single birth and not two. This single birth is one "of the Spirit." I believe the word "water" in the phrase "born of water" is a spiritual metaphor. By using this metaphor Christ places emphasis on the single new birth "of the Spirit." The author uses this same water/spirit metaphor in chapters 4 (v10-16) and 7 (v37-39). It makes sense we recognize the metaphorical use here.
If we also recognize the word "KAI" has more than one meaning, such as is shown in 1Corinthians 15:24 which states, "Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, KAI (even) the Father," we can see that John 3:5 is not offering two separate and distinct elements of a single birth but simply an emphasis on the single birth.
John 3:5 can be understood this way, "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water KAI (even) of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."
"Born of water even of the Spirit" brings to mind a later usage of this same metaphor in John 7:37-39 where it is, in fact, parenthetically explained that the metaphor "water" is a reference to the Spirit (vs39 But this spake he of the Spirit...).
That the remainder John chapter 3 jumps directly to further discussion on being born of the Spirit gives added strength to the metaphorical position.
Sacramental re-enactment theologoy often jump to Titus 3:5 as prooftext ... but sadly isolate this verse ..... not reading the verse in it's proper context and assuming washing must mean water baptism ...
As for the poor exegesis of Titus 3:
One writer refutes this assertion by stating:
. [N]ot by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit. . . (Titus 3:5)
This verse is sometimes referred to as proof that baptism is the means of regeneration. However, it does not mention baptism, and our discussion of Hebrews 10:22 will show that the regeneration, the cleansing of the evil conscience, is accomplished by washing, or sprinkling in the blood of Christ. Revelation 1:5 makes it perfectly clear that the washing from sin is done in the blood of Christ, not in the waters of baptism.
Furthermore, there is good grammatical cause to believe that "washing of regeneration" means "washing which is regeneration." This is argued for by Charles Hodge, who notes that this would be the meaning as a "genitive of apposition," identifying "washing" with "regeneration." Thus Hodge writes, "We are saved by that washing which is regeneration, namely, the renewing of the Holy Ghost." [16]
Titus 3:5 does not actually refer to baptism in water. It refers to washing of regeneration which is done in the blood of Christ which was shed to cleanse us from sin. It cannot be used to prove that baptism in water is necessary for salvation.
Furthermore, even if baptism is not seen as a work of the law, it is a work of righteousness. It is something which we do: therefore it is a work. It is right for us to do: therefore it is a work of righteousness. But this very verse says that it is not by any works of righteousness which we have done that we are saved. Therefore it cannot be by baptism that we are saved [http://www.rickross.com/reference/icc/ICC122.html#titus3 (http://www.rickross.com/reference/icc/ICC122.html#titus3)]
I would also simply point out the the surrounding 2 verses 4 and 6 in Titus.
4But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, 5he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.
The washing and renewal of the Holy Spirit is and simultaneous work ... not sequential ... as evident in verse 6 that states "He poured out on us" ... this is the pouring out promised by the prophet Joel, reaffirmed by John the Baptist [I baptize you w/ water, but he will baptize you w/ the Holy Ghost] and Jesus who offers us living water: Everyone who drinks this ... rivers of living water will flow from within him.
It is mind boggling to hear posters on this board deny those who are filled w/ the Spirit of God ... access to heaven's gate .... or fellowship in the Body of Christ.
1 Corinthians 12:13 states, "For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.
Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
My bible is clear ... if they show fruit of the Spirit .... THEY ARE HIS AND BORN OF GOD.
And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24Those who obey his commands live in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.
Why would someone obey the "Three-step plan" if they didn't have faith, Daniel?
See Simon the Sorcerer.
Jehoram
02-22-2008, 09:52 AM
Here we go with the name calling again.
I loathe the "three-stepper" moniker.
Jehoram
02-22-2008, 09:53 AM
Comparing water and spirit proponents to Simon the sorcerer is quite a stretch.
Comparing water and spirit proponents to Simon the sorcerer is quite a stretch.
The stretch is yours friend ... I was responding to PO's question if it is possible to go through the 3 steps w/o faith.
Um ... don't know where you came to your conclusion.
revrandy
02-22-2008, 09:58 AM
Three step is something made up by folks who won't obey the Word...
Repentance...Baptism....and Holy Ghost...
How hard is that??
Joelel
02-22-2008, 09:58 AM
Whats more, we don't we require the appearance of a tongue-like flame above the head of everyone as a true sign of infilling? It happened in the book of Acts......
That's what i'm saying,Jesus said these signs shall follow,not just tongues or not just any one sign.Everyone has different signs.
Yes on the day of pentecost they seen the tongues and heard the Holy Ghost.Paul said each person has different gifts.
2: And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3: And there appeared (they seen)unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them
Mark 16:15: And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17: And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18: They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover
Here we go with the name calling again.
I loathe the "three-stepper" moniker.
Apostolic must be name calling in your book too??? Funny.,:tantrum
Three step is something made up by folks who won't obey the Word...
Repentance...Baptism....and Holy Ghost...
How hard is that??
Funny ... I know one-steppers who've obeyed Acts 2:38 ... odd.
JamDat
02-22-2008, 10:00 AM
You should not have to find the Cross of Calvary like finding an egg on easter.
You should take folks directly to the cross.
Notice your own words the Cross is visited before verse 38.
That is my only message.... Bub!
Sorry, but finding those verses in the book of Acts is comparable to the Gospel's in the midst of the rest of the bible. No easter egg hunt required.
Remember RevRandy said the book of Act's not just Acts 2:38. Acts 2:38 is along the journey to salvation.
The bub comment was because it seemed like you were arguing with what RevRandy posted, but you were arguing about something that wasn't even posted and then what you posted implied that the Gospel wasn't in the book of Acts when in fact it is.
All this nonsense of trying to say that traditional apostolics bypass the gospel and are only concerned with people being wet and "acting" like they're drunk in the Holy Ghost is deserving of the El Toro award. We preach, convert and accept baptism, and the gift of the Holy Ghost as a result of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
When I was baptized and filled with the Holy Ghost I fully understood why I needed and was accepting of it. I was mostly convinced of it because of the book of Act's where it told me what I had to do because I was pricked in my heart. I'm sure most others were the same. Of course we heard the Gospel and that is why we did what is commanded of us.
Pressing-On
02-22-2008, 10:02 AM
See Simon the Sorcerer.
Comparing water and spirit proponents to Simon the sorcerer is quite a stretch.
A big stretch. Especially, when we are speaking of people that are looking for salvation and not personal power to wield as Simon was looking for.
Pressing-On
02-22-2008, 10:03 AM
Sorry, but finding those verses in the book of Acts is comparable to the Gospel's in the midst of the rest of the bible. No easter egg hunt required.
Remember RevRandy said the book of Act's not just Acts 2:38. Acts 2:38 is along the journey to salvation.
The bub comment was because it seemed like you were arguing with what RevRandy posted, but you were arguing about something that wasn't even posted and then what you posted implied that the Gospel wasn't in the book of Acts when in fact it is.
All this nonsense of trying to say that traditional apostolics bypass the gospel and are only concerned with people being wet and "acting" like they're drunk in the Holy Ghost is deserving of the El Toro award. We preach, convert and accept baptism, and the gift of the Holy Ghost as a result of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
When I was baptized and filled with the Holy Ghost I fully understood why I needed and was accepting of it. I was mostly convinced of it because of the book of Act's where it told me what I had to do because I was pricked in my heart. I'm sure most others were the same. Of course we heard the Gospel and that is why we did what is commanded of us.
Amen, good post!
revrandy
02-22-2008, 10:04 AM
Funny ... I know one-steppers who've obeyed Acts 2:38 ... odd.
What is a one -stepper?
Joelel
02-22-2008, 10:05 AM
Hey Randy...........PREACH!!!!!!!!! *B-3 Hammond* You the man bro, keep it up!
We had a HG blow-out this weekend...including, a girl who started to speak in tongues in the pew where two Philipino young men sitting in front of her understood what she said...they told our Pastor she was speaking their language!!!!!!!
That's the way it should be.
This is what's going on in many church assemblies today,1 Cor.14:23: If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad (crazy)?
This is what should be taking place in the church,1 Cor.14:24: But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:25: And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth
Jehoram
02-22-2008, 10:05 AM
Apostolic must be name calling in your book too??? Funny.,:tantrum
Not really.
But the term "three-stepper" implies a works based view of salvation. I believe that is a warped assessment of our doctrine.
Your signature says what we believe.
Two commands and a promise.
It really is that simple.
Arguing the semantics of "what happens when" seems to be the more legalistic approach to doctrine.
The important thing is to point lost souls to the proper response to Jesus' sacrifice - which is found in Acts 2:38.
What is so insidious about that?
Not really.
But the term "three-stepper" implies a works based view of salvation. I believe that is a warped assessment of our doctrine.
Your signature says what we believe.
Two commands and a promise.
It really is that simple.
Arguing the semantics of "what happens when" seems to be the more legalistic approach to doctrine.
The important thing is to point lost souls to the proper response to Jesus' sacrifice - which is found in Acts 2:38.
What is so insidious about that?
Then it appears Paul was legalist as were the Apostles ... friend because they did not teach the point of Salvation as you do.
Of course our definitions would differ on what a legalist is ... as also it differs on what a sacrament is ... so we'll do the merry-go round thing.
What is a one -stepper?
I suggest you spend the rest of the day reading the archives if it hasn't registered yet.:friend
Pressing-On
02-22-2008, 10:11 AM
That's what i'm saying,Jesus said these signs shall follow,not just tongues or not just any one sign.Everyone has different signs.
Yes on the day of pentecost they seen the tongues and heard the Holy Ghost.Paul said each person has different gifts.
2: And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3: And there appeared (they seen)unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them
Mark 16:15: And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17: And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18: They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover
Joel,
The Word says, "like as of fire." Whatever they experienced this was the imagery. It is not saying "actual" fire.
Much like in Mat 3:16 "And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:"
The dove was the most gentle of birds. Whatever they felt and however Jesus presented himself - this was the imagery - the gentle dove.
Not an actual dove descending.
Jehoram
02-22-2008, 10:11 AM
Then it appears Paul was legalist as were the Apostles ... friend because they did not teach the point of Salvation as you do.
All of the Apostles were in the Upper Room when the Holy Ghost fell. They were present when Peter preached at Pentecost. None offered an objection - or a different response to the Gospel message Peter preached. None of them disagreed with his answer to the question "what shall we do."
Both the Pauline and General Epistles were written to churches and individuals who had that same understanding.
Joelel
02-22-2008, 10:11 AM
Several years ago, a preacher friend of mine was sick. Very sick. Another brother who had been working among a tribe of American Indians out west and I went to pray for and visit the sick brother. As we prayed, the Lord spoke a word of prophecy to me, that seemed, well, outlandish to me. So I asked the Lord for confirmation. I sat there speaking in tongues as we prayed. The brother who served as a missionary out west spoke up, and said, "You know, Brother, the tongues you are speaking in sounds very much like the Apache Language." That was all the confirmation I needed. I stood up and spoke, "When your enemies think you have fallen, and will not rise, then I will raise you up, and send you from this place to minister the Gospel to the American Indians". The brother was healed, and, a few months later, resigned his church and went west. He had a very fruitful ministry in New Mexico, Arizona and Colorado, working among the Indians.
Enjoying the thread, RevRandy.
Amen,that's the way it should be.Acts 2: 1: And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2: And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3: And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4: And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5: And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
6: Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
7: And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8: And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
9: Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10: Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
11: Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God
Pressing-On
02-22-2008, 10:12 AM
Not really.
But the term "three-stepper" implies a works based view of salvation. I believe that is a warped assessment of our doctrine.
Your signature says what we believe.
Two commands and a promise.
It really is that simple.
Arguing the semantics of "what happens when" seems to be the more legalistic approach to doctrine.
The important thing is to point lost souls to the proper response to Jesus' sacrifice - which is found in Acts 2:38.
What is so insidious about that?
Amen!
Jehoram
02-22-2008, 10:16 AM
All:
The terms we use in debate are important. I have no intention of ceding territory to verbal opponents who would paint the traditional Oneness Pentecostal view of Acts 2:38 as legalistic.
The term "three-stepper" is used in an absolutely derogatory manner. Much the same way trinitarians refer to us as "Jesus Only." Both terms should make our hackles rise.
Whole Hearted
02-22-2008, 10:18 AM
No other saving message outside of Acts 2:38
All:
The terms we use in debate are important. I have no intention of ceding territory to verbal opponents who would paint the traditional Oneness Pentecostal view of Acts 2:38 as legalistic.
The term "three-stepper" is used in an absolutely derogatory manner. Much the same way trinitarians refer to us as "Jesus Only." Both terms should make our hackles rise.
There you have it ... three stepper is now derrogatory ...
Gentlemen what shall we do??? :tissue
All of the Apostles were in the Upper Room when the Holy Ghost fell. They were present when Peter preached at Pentecost. None offered an objection - or a different response to the Gospel message Peter preached. None of them disagreed with his answer to the question "what shall we do."
Both the Pauline and General Epistles were written to churches and individuals who had that same understanding.
We agree it's the proper response to the Gospel that saves us through faith in Jesus Christ. Yet it's the semantics and the focus on a works-based salvation ... whether it be soteriological ... standards ... salvific-tithing ... that has stretched Scripture to the point where some leave feeling unsaveable.
Joelel
02-22-2008, 10:24 AM
You know full well that water or washing does not exclusively mean water baptism in Scripture ... It is you that ignores ... as you ignore that water baptism is NOT DIRECTLY REFERENCED IN BOTH OF THE SCRIPTURES YOU QUOTED. It's more theological and verbal acrobatics.
Unfortunately, when my 3 step brethren see as much as a puddle in the word of God .. they equate it to the biblical ordinance of water baptism.
Being born from above [gennatha anothen], as found in John, is exactly that ... a work which rests entirely on the Holy Spirit through placing our trust in the Son of God.
Our warrior friend Adino said it best:
I understand the underlying Greek structure of John 3:5 speaks of a single birth and not two. This single birth is one "of the Spirit." I believe the word "water" in the phrase "born of water" is a spiritual metaphor. By using this metaphor Christ places emphasis on the single new birth "of the Spirit." The author uses this same water/spirit metaphor in chapters 4 (v10-16) and 7 (v37-39). It makes sense we recognize the metaphorical use here.
If we also recognize the word "KAI" has more than one meaning, such as is shown in 1Corinthians 15:24 which states, "Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, KAI (even) the Father," we can see that John 3:5 is not offering two separate and distinct elements of a single birth but simply an emphasis on the single birth.
John 3:5 can be understood this way, "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water KAI (even) of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."
"Born of water even of the Spirit" brings to mind a later usage of this same metaphor in John 7:37-39 where it is, in fact, parenthetically explained that the metaphor "water" is a reference to the Spirit (vs39 But this spake he of the Spirit...).
That the remainder John chapter 3 jumps directly to further discussion on being born of the Spirit gives added strength to the metaphorical position.
Sacramental re-enactment theologoy often jump to Titus 3:5 as prooftext ... but sadly isolate this verse ..... not reading the verse in it's proper context and assuming washing must mean water baptism ...
As for the poor exegesis of Titus 3:
One writer refutes this assertion by stating:
. [N]ot by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit. . . (Titus 3:5)
This verse is sometimes referred to as proof that baptism is the means of regeneration. However, it does not mention baptism, and our discussion of Hebrews 10:22 will show that the regeneration, the cleansing of the evil conscience, is accomplished by washing, or sprinkling in the blood of Christ. Revelation 1:5 makes it perfectly clear that the washing from sin is done in the blood of Christ, not in the waters of baptism.
Furthermore, there is good grammatical cause to believe that "washing of regeneration" means "washing which is regeneration." This is argued for by Charles Hodge, who notes that this would be the meaning as a "genitive of apposition," identifying "washing" with "regeneration." Thus Hodge writes, "We are saved by that washing which is regeneration, namely, the renewing of the Holy Ghost." [16]
Titus 3:5 does not actually refer to baptism in water. It refers to washing of regeneration which is done in the blood of Christ which was shed to cleanse us from sin. It cannot be used to prove that baptism in water is necessary for salvation.
Furthermore, even if baptism is not seen as a work of the law, it is a work of righteousness. It is something which we do: therefore it is a work. It is right for us to do: therefore it is a work of righteousness. But this very verse says that it is not by any works of righteousness which we have done that we are saved. Therefore it cannot be by baptism that we are saved [http://www.rickross.com/reference/icc/ICC122.html#titus3 (http://www.rickross.com/reference/icc/ICC122.html#titus3)]
I would also simply point out the the surrounding 2 verses 4 and 6 in Titus.
4But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, 5he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.
The washing and renewal of the Holy Spirit is and simultaneous work ... not sequential ... as evident in verse 6 that states "He poured out on us" ... this is the pouring out promised by the prophet Joel, reaffirmed by John the Baptist [I baptize you w/ water, but he will baptize you w/ the Holy Ghost] and Jesus who offers us living water: Everyone who drinks this ... rivers of living water will flow from within him.
It is mind boggling to hear posters on this board deny those who are filled w/ the Spirit of God ... access to heaven's gate .... or fellowship in the Body of Christ.
1 Corinthians 12:13 states, "For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.
Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
My bible is clear ... if they show fruit of the Spirit .... THEY ARE HIS AND BORN OF GOD.
And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24Those who obey his commands live in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.
Being born of water and Spirit is two parts of the one birth of being born again.
Pressing-On
02-22-2008, 10:24 AM
All:
The terms we use in debate are important. I have no intention of ceding territory to verbal opponents who would paint the traditional Oneness Pentecostal view of Acts 2:38 as legalistic.
The term "three-stepper" is used in an absolutely derogatory manner. Much the same way trinitarians refer to us as "Jesus Only." Both terms should make our hackles rise.
I agree that the "three-stepper" term is used in a derogatory manner, for some people, although it doesn't make my hackles rise. lol
I know how salvation was wrought in my life and other than making a few comments, I don't need to debate that. Furthermore, I can't be convinced of looking at that any other way.
Mainly, because I look at things in a simple way. When, in the English language, I read a sentence with a question, I look for the response to follow.
I remember reading in Acts somewhere - (lol) "What shall we do?" The answer was interesting......
Jehoram
02-22-2008, 10:24 AM
We agree it's the proper response to the Gospel that save us. Yet it's the semantics and the focus on a works-based salvation ... whether it be soteriological ... standards ... salvific-tithing ... that has stretched Scripture to the point where some leave feeling unsaveable.
You know, of course, that I completely agree.
Some have "shut up Heaven" just as the Pharisees did.
Being born of water and Spirit is two parts of the one birth of being born again.
Right.
Jehoram
02-22-2008, 10:26 AM
There you have it ... three stepper is now derrogatory ...
Gentlemen what shall we do??? :tissue
Seriously, can it somehow be viewed in a positive way?
I agree that the "three-stepper" term is used in a derogatory manner, for some people, although it doesn't make my hackles rise. lol
I know how salvation was wrought in my life and other than making a few comments, I don't need to debate that. Furthermore, I can't be convinced of looking at that any other way.
Mainly, because I look at things in a simply way. When, in the English language, I read a sentence with a question, I look for the response to follow.
I remember reading in Acts somewhere - (lol) "What shall we do?" The answer was interesting......
The question never was and does not read ... TO BE BE SAVED ... that question was asked by the jailer to Paul and we know what his immediate response was.
Jehoram
02-22-2008, 10:27 AM
Being born of water and Spirit is two parts of the one birth of being born again.
I do not agree with this.
At all.
Seriously, can it somehow be viewed in a positive way?
How about a neutral term, AE ... some terms are just neutral.
Jehoram
02-22-2008, 10:28 AM
How about a neutral term, AE ... some terms are just neutral.
I am not convinced THAT term is neutral.
I am not convinced THAT term is neutral.
Perception is everything ... now all we need is a mob w/ torches to agree w/ you. :bliss
revrandy
02-22-2008, 10:32 AM
Dan..
DO you believe to be saved you must Repent of your sins ..Be Baptized in Jesus Name and Be Filled with the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues?
Or do you believe that only Repentance is necessary for Salvation?
Jehoram
02-22-2008, 10:34 AM
Daniel,
If we use the principle of "reduce to the ridiculous" the most important thing becomes obedience to the Word. Some place more emphasis on certain portions of it than others, but if we reduce everything down to the most simple of terms I think we will agree that Acts 2:38 encapsulates a fullness of response to the Gospel message that no other passage in the Word does.
I am not suggesting it is more important than other passages. But I am not minimizes its place in God's Word either.
It is what it is.
And it is THE proper response to the Gospel.
Would be adherants need to obey the two conjunctive commands of repentance and baptism. The rest is up to God.
Joelel
02-22-2008, 10:35 AM
Joel,
The Word says, "like as of fire." Whatever they experienced this was the imagery. It is not saying "actual" fire.
Much like in Mat 3:16 "And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:"
The dove was the most gentle of birds. Whatever they felt and however Jesus presented himself - this was the imagery - the gentle dove.
Not an actual dove descending.
They seen the Holy Ghost that look like fire,it we not fire,It looked like tongues of fire.Yes the Holy Ghost looked like a dove too.Old testement God looked like a burning bush.He can look like anything.He has the power.
The Cross is everything that Jesus Christ did for us... but it did not empower us.. We receive Power after that the Holy Ghost is come upon us... That the Work of the Cross is completed in our lives daily... The Work of Mercy is sufficient in our hearts and The Work of Grace in our minds...
Bro. I will lead folks who don't know our Savior to the Cross but also to the Resurrection and to the Upper Room...
Don't let the Cross become a Crutch... Because it Held the Savior but it had to let the Savior go.... Because what came next is what happens in every life who receives the Holy Ghost... the Resurrection....
1 Cor 1:18
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish "foolishness", but unto us "which" are saved it is the power of God.
The cross and Christs' journey to the cross holds miracles and Apostolic annointing.
The cross is not just a connection we link through repentance and them move on.
It is with us in our daily walk with Christ.
I understand the power of the Holy Spriit in us.
You will prick more mens hearts by the preaching of the cross.
Than you will with preaching Acts 2:38.
Acts 2:38 came after the mention of the death of Christ on Calvary.
That is why churches are empty and revival has not swept the land.
We are trying to have sinners make decisions on Acts 2:38 before the cross of Calvary convicts them of their sins...
You have me wrong to try and convince me Acts 2:38.
That experience I have and will preach.
But the preaching of the Cross is the power of God unto salvation.
Jehoram
02-22-2008, 10:36 AM
Perception is everything ... now all we need is a mob w/ torches to agree w/ you. :bliss
I think they all took the day off.:friend
Sorry, but finding those verses in the book of Acts is comparable to the Gospel's in the midst of the rest of the bible. No easter egg hunt required.
Remember RevRandy said the book of Act's not just Acts 2:38. Acts 2:38 is along the journey to salvation.
The bub comment was because it seemed like you were arguing with what RevRandy posted, but you were arguing about something that wasn't even posted and then what you posted implied that the Gospel wasn't in the book of Acts when in fact it is.
All this nonsense of trying to say that traditional apostolics bypass the gospel and are only concerned with people being wet and "acting" like they're drunk in the Holy Ghost is deserving of the El Toro award. We preach, convert and accept baptism, and the gift of the Holy Ghost as a result of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
When I was baptized and filled with the Holy Ghost I fully understood why I needed and was accepting of it. I was mostly convinced of it because of the book of Act's where it told me what I had to do because I was pricked in my heart. I'm sure most others were the same. Of course we heard the Gospel and that is why we did what is commanded of us.
The easter egg hunt started with this Thread post at the beginning. Do not be ashamed to preach the cross of calvary today.
Then preach Acts 2:38.
Preach the second chapter of Acts as the Acts unfold....
Do not start at the end of the chapter...
The preaching, singing and teaching on the cross has for the most part been lost.
Give me an email address and I wll send you a sermon on the Cross...
The sermon does not stop at the cross but brings men to the need for Acts 2:38.
In many denominational churches the cross has been lost.
And with it many souls of mankind..
Pressing-On
02-22-2008, 10:39 AM
The question never was and does not read ... TO BE BE SAVED ... that question was asked by the jailer to Paul and we know what his immediate response was.
It doesn't? The jailer? I think you are referring to another passage of scriptures. I'm referring to Acts 2:37 "Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?"
Jehoram
02-22-2008, 10:39 AM
1 Cor 1:18
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish "foolishness", but unto us "which" are saved it is the power of God.
The cross and Christs' journey to the cross holds miracles and Apostolic annointing.
The cross is not just a connection we link through repentance and them move on.
It is with us in our daily walk with Christ.
I understand the power of the Holy Spriit in us.
You will prick more mens hearts by the preaching of the cross.
Than you will with preaching Acts 2:38.
Acts 2:38 came after the mention of the death of Christ on Calvary.
That is why churches are empty and revival has not swept the land.
We are trying to have sinners make decisions on Acts 2:38 before the cross of Calvary convicts them of their sins...
You have me wrong to try and convince me Acts 2:38.
That experience I have and will preach.
But the preaching of the Cross is the power of God unto salvation.
Acts 2:38 is meaningless without the cross.
We do not present (should not present) the response before the question has even been asked in the mind of the hearer of the Word.
The pattern is simple and clear. Peter preached Christ's death, burial and resurrection first. And then, when they were pricked in their hearts, he fed them the proper response to Christ's actions.
Joelel
02-22-2008, 10:41 AM
I do not agree with this.
At all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joelel
Being born of water and Spirit is two parts of the one birth of being born again.
I do not agree with this.
At all.
What do you say ?
I think they all took the day off.:friend
Perhaps you can go rally them up at JP.
Pressing-On
02-22-2008, 10:43 AM
The easter egg hunt started with this Thread post at the beginning. Do not be ashamed to preach the cross of calvary today.
Then preach Acts 2:38.
Preach the second chapter of Acts as the Acts unfold....
Do not start at the end of the chapter...
The preaching, singing and teaching on the cross has for the most part been lost.
Give me an email address and I wll send you a sermon on the Cross...
The sermon does not stop at the cross but brings men to the need for Acts 2:38.
You are right. Don't start at the end of the chapter.
It doesn't? The jailer? I think you are referring to another passage of scriptures. I'm referring to Acts 2:37 "Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?"
Right ... my point exactly. Acts 2 does not as what shall we do TO BE SAVED ...
have we dispensed with Acts yet? what other books of the bible can we get rid of? it will help me in my reading. I would like to shave a few weeks of my trip thru the scripture.
revrandy
02-22-2008, 10:45 AM
have we dispensed with Acts yet? what other books of the bible can we get rid of? it will help me in my reading. I would like to shave a few weeks of my trip thru the scripture.
Probable Corinthians would be a good one not to read...all that Standard Stuff...you know...
Jude is pretty short. we can get rid of it.
A_PoMo
02-22-2008, 10:46 AM
I can understand the resentment toward the perjorative "three-stepper". It reminds me of the terms too many "three-steppers" use when describing trinitarians as 'three-godists" and polytheists, and their doctrine of salvation as "greasy grace" and those who practice Christian liberties as "liberals". I suppose I could also mention all the derogatory terms I hear in holiness churches when talking about gays and Democrats. If we are going to complain about the other side perhaps we ought to take the first step in eliminating our derogatory terminology along with the attitudes that accompany them.
Probable Corinthians would be a good one not to read...all that Standard Stuff...you know...
how about leviticus?
I cant spell it and it has all those begats.
revrandy
02-22-2008, 10:46 AM
Dan..
DO you believe to be saved you must Repent of your sins ..Be Baptized in Jesus Name and Be Filled with the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues?
Or do you believe that only Repentance is necessary for Salvation?
***BUMP***
For Daniel....
Double Bumped for My friend Daniel******
Any Answer on the Question??
Which book has Shamgar fighting over beans?
we dont need object lessons on fighting over beans.
Dan..
DO you believe to be saved you must Repent of your sins ..Be Baptized in Jesus Name and Be Filled with the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues?
Or do you believe that only Repentance is necessary for Salvation?
Dude! what a silly question!
DA believes what ever Tom Fudge says you should believe....
well, he believes all the rest of us should believe Tom Fudge anyway. Im not sure exactly what he personally believes.
Jehoram
02-22-2008, 10:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joelel
Being born of water and Spirit is two parts of the one birth of being born again.
I do not agree with this.
At all.
What do you say ?
I do not think we can separate one action from another. I believe repentance and baptism are inseparable commands. The Word says "Repent and be baptized FOR the remission of sins."
Some say the Greek implies the word "and" should actually be EVEN.
That adds a singularity to Peter's command that seldom is preached.
My opinion is that remission does not occur until both commands are obeyed.
I think it would be dangerous to begin a process of parsing one, two or even three events as you had mentioned.
At that point, our friend Daniel would have every right to call us "three-steppers."
Some folk say we should get rid of all the blood and gore.
if we get rid of duteronomy womens dont have to wear blue jean skirts.
Joelel
02-22-2008, 10:50 AM
Dan..
DO you believe to be saved you must Repent of your sins ..Be Baptized in Jesus Name and Be Filled with the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues?
Or do you believe that only Repentance is necessary for Salvation?
Why do pentecostals say be filled with the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues ? God very clearly said he would pour out his Spirit and they would prophecy and have dreams and visions.Why can't people have other signs as Jesus said in Mark 16.The tongues on the day of pentecost is what was needed because God was giving prophecy to the 3000 in their own tongue.
Pressing-On
02-22-2008, 10:50 AM
Right ... my point exactly. Acts 2 does not as what shall we do TO BE SAVED ...
Romans 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."
Romans 8:11 "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you."
Being that the epistles were written to people that were termed as "saints" and written to "the churches of", we conclude that somewhere they found salvation.
Acts shows how that Spirit came. It's a salvational message. It's a salvational issue.
So why did the men ask - "What shall we do?" Why were their hearts pricked? What did they think they needed at that point?
Jehoram
02-22-2008, 10:51 AM
I can understand the resentment toward the perjorative "three-stepper". It reminds me of the terms too many "three-steppers" use when describing trinitarians as 'three-godists" and polytheists, and their doctrine of salvation as "greasy grace" and those who practice Christian liberties as "liberals". I suppose I could also mention all the derogatory terms I hear in holiness churches when talking about gays and Democrats. If we are going to complain about the other side perhaps we ought to take the first step in eliminating our derogatory terminology along with the attitudes that accompany them.
Do you really expect me to disagree with you?
It bothers me when I hear trinitarians referred to as "three-godists." That, even though I completely disagree with their theology.
Debate is squelched immediately when terms like that are thrown around.
I feel better.
we got rid of Acts
corinthens
jude
duteronomy
leviticus.
also, I personally dont understand reverlations so lets get rid of that. plus it will get Brother Blume back in the fold.
Pressing-On
02-22-2008, 10:52 AM
if we get rid of duteronomy womens dont have to wear blue jean skirts.
I have one that buttons up the front. I need it, Ferd. I can throw it on real quick and skeedaddle!! Don't take it from me!! You can have all the ones with zippers in the front though. Can't stand them. :bliss
revrandy
02-22-2008, 10:54 AM
Dan..
DO you believe to be saved you must Repent of your sins ..Be Baptized in Jesus Name and Be Filled with the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues?
Or do you believe that only Repentance is necessary for Salvation?
Dude! what a silly question!
DA believes what ever Tom Fudge says you should believe....
well, he believes all the rest of us should believe Tom Fudge anyway. Im not sure exactly what he personally believes.
I would like to hear it from Dan the Man....
Do you really expect me to disagree with you?
It bothers me when I hear trinitarians referred to as "three-godists." That, even though I completely disagree with their theology.
Debate is squelched immediately when terms like that are thrown around.
yea, and also when trinitarians ask me if Jesus was his own father.
(btw I think we should keep Isaiah it answers lots of questions)
I would like to hear it from Dan the Man....
Dan the Man pastors in Louisiana. He posts here from time to time.
you should have been around back in the FCF days. he went toe to toe with WWOD over LBs "Library" letter.
pretty cool stuff.
He believes Acts 2:38 is in the bible.
Jehoram
02-22-2008, 10:57 AM
yea, and also when trinitarians ask me if Jesus was his own father.
But how many really do?
The average layman in either Oneness or Trinitarian churches could not even begin to explain the orthodox views of their assembly.
When we start labeling before dialogue begins deep division occurs and nothing is accomplished.
And that goes both ways.
But how many really do?
The average layman in either Oneness or Trinitarian churches could not even begin to explain the orthodox views of their assembly.
When we start labeling before dialogue begins deep division occurs and nothing is accomplished.
And that goes both ways.
I dont know how many do, I just know anytime the subject comes up, some trinitarian pulls that one out and gets all smug.
Like they actually said something. wacky.
revrandy
02-22-2008, 10:59 AM
Dan the Man pastors in Louisiana. He posts here from time to time.
you should have been around back in the FCF days. he went toe to toe with WWOD over LBs "Library" letter.
pretty cool stuff.
He believes Acts 2:38 is in the bible.
Sorry...Not that Dan... but Daniel....
He has yet to answer... I'm waiting... I would just like to see where he stands...
Joelel
02-22-2008, 10:59 AM
Acts 2:38 is meaningless without the cross.
We do not present (should not present) the response before the question has even been asked in the mind of the hearer of the Word.
The pattern is simple and clear. Peter preached Christ's death, burial and resurrection first. And then, when they were pricked in their hearts, he fed them the proper response to Christ's actions.
Peter preached the blood of Jesus to them befor Acts 2:38.Yes I know many preach Acts 2:38 by passing the blood.
Acts, chapter 2
1: And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2: And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3: And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4: And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5: And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
6: Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
7: And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8: And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
9: Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10: Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
11: Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
12: And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
13: Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
14: But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
15: For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
16: But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17: And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
19: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
21: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
22: Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
23: Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
24: Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
25: For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
26: Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
27: Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
28: Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
29: Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30: Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31: He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32: This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33: Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34: For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35: Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
36: Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41: Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
42: And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
43: And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.
44: And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
45: And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
46: And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
47: Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
***BUMP***
For Daniel....
Double Bumped for My friend Daniel******
Any Answer on the Question??
Saved at the point of genuine faith and repentance.
:friend
I like labels.
Like "Conservitive Republican"
gives me a warm fuzzy. makes me feel like I can trust a guy, you know?
or "Three Stepper" I like that one a lot. Makes me fell like a fellow can actually read.
i also like people who know what the word "is" means.
Sorry...Not that Dan... but Daniel....
He has yet to answer... I'm waiting... I would just like to see where he stands...
Oh you meant DA, isnt here banned or some such?
Dude! what a silly question!
DA believes what ever Tom Fudge says you should believe....
well, he believes all the rest of us should believe Tom Fudge anyway. Im not sure exactly what he personally believes.
A real silly question.
Oh you meant DA, isnt here banned or some such?
Good to see you Ferd ... I've seen you lurking in the past few days ...
Pressing-On
02-22-2008, 11:04 AM
I like labels.
Like "Conservitive Republican"
gives me a warm fuzzy. makes me feel like I can trust a guy, you know?
or "Three Stepper" I like that one a lot. Makes me fell like a fellow can actually read.
i also like people who know what the word "is" means.
You are killing me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:ursofunny:ursofunny:ursofunny
Jehoram
02-22-2008, 11:06 AM
Perhaps you can go rally them up at JP.
I'm sure I would not be welcomed there.
How about you, Rev?
Sorry...Not that Dan... but Daniel....
He has yet to answer... I'm waiting... I would just like to see where he stands...
he is back. still not answering your question.
said it was silly or some such.
its funny what some folk consider silly.
take me for instance. i find some questions too silly to answer too.
Like when my dad used to ask me if i shut the barn door.
who would ever leave the Barn door open? do you realize how many foxes live out in the Piney woods of Southwest Louisiana? leave the barn door open and all your chickens get killed.
Did I leave the barn door open. thats just a plane silly question.
I'm sure I would not be welcomed there.
How about you, Rev?
Maybe I should try???
Joelel
02-22-2008, 11:08 AM
I do not think we can separate one action from another. I believe repentance and baptism are inseparable commands. The Word says "Repent and be baptized FOR the remission of sins."
Some say the Greek implies the word "and" should actually be EVEN.
That adds a singularity to Peter's command that seldom is preached.
My opinion is that remission does not occur until both commands are obeyed.
I think it would be dangerous to begin a process of parsing one, two or even three events as you had mentioned.
At that point, our friend Daniel would have every right to call us "three-steppers."
I agree,guess you just miss understand me.By the way,I'm not just a three stepper.I'm a full stepper.The full gospel for total salvation.
Saved at the point of genuine faith and repentance.
:friend
he is back. still not answering your question.
said it was silly or some such.
its funny what some folk consider silly.
take me for instance. i find some questions too silly to answer too.
Like when my dad used to ask me if i shut the barn door.
who would ever leave the Barn door open? do you realize how many foxes live out in the Piney woods of Southwest Louisiana? leave the barn door open and all your chickens get killed.
Did I leave the barn door open. thats just a plane silly question.
Egggh ....
Wrong again, Ferd.
I trust you will apologize.
Not.
Jehoram
02-22-2008, 11:08 AM
Maybe I should try???
It's Friday, be bold.
I have extra gauze and peroxide.
Alter Ego, instead of "three stepper" you might try Water/Spirit Doctrine.
Its a pretty cool doctrine, even if some folk think we are all wet.
(I am most certainly a proponet of the Water/Spirit Doctrine.)
It's Friday, be bold.
I have extra gauze and peroxide.
Maybe I have already???
Egggh ....
Wrong again, Ferd.
I trust you will apologize.
Not.
Im sorry DA, I thought when you said it was a real silly question, you were being honest.
I appologize for believing you.
Jehoram
02-22-2008, 11:12 AM
Maybe I have already???
And?
Spill it Bubba!
Mrs. LPW
02-22-2008, 11:47 AM
See Simon the Sorcerer.
Simon wanted the power only Daniel... he didn't get it either.
Mrs. LPW
02-22-2008, 11:49 AM
The stretch is yours friend ... I was responding to PO's question if it is possible to go through the 3 steps w/o faith.
Um ... don't know where you came to your conclusion.
Where do you read Simon went through "3 steps"???
I certainly never read that...
You cannot recieve the gift of the Holy Ghost without faith...
You won't repent of your sins without faith. And sure... you can be baptised without faith.. but it won't do you a lick of good. Your point is really moot.
revrandy
02-22-2008, 11:50 AM
Dan..
DO you believe to be saved you must Repent of your sins ..Be Baptized in Jesus Name and Be Filled with the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues?
Or do you believe that only Repentance is necessary for Salvation?
Hay...DA.. can ya answer today??
Hay...DA.. can ya answer today??
I did already ... and quoted it ...
Go back.
revrandy
02-22-2008, 11:53 AM
I did already ... and quoted it ...
Go back.
Found it...Thanks..
Is Genuine Faith also being obedient to the Word?
Is that a part of Faith?
Where do you read Simon went through "3 steps"???
I certainly never read that...
You cannot recieve the gift of the Holy Ghost without faith...
You won't repent of your sins without faith. And sure... you can be baptised without faith.. but it won't do you a lick of good. Your point is really moot.
No, not really, one can try to go through the steps and not have genuine faith ...
Act 8:13 Then Simon himself believed also [in Jesus Christ]: and when he was baptized, he continued with [followed] Philip [everywhere], and wondered [was astonished by], beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
He could've done the Borat and he would've been in the ship.
Was Simon saved if he did steps 1 and 2 in faith but did not speak in tongues?
Im sorry DA, I thought when you said it was a real silly question, you were being honest.
I appologize for believing you.
One can answer a question and still think it's silly.
However, thanks for believing in me Sir Ferd.
Mrs. LPW
02-22-2008, 11:58 AM
There you have it ... three stepper is now derrogatory ...
Gentlemen what shall we do??? :tissue
You see Dan... I have kept silent the last couple days with your new return.. and the new ownership and the new admin and everything else that is new. And kind of observed.
But what is not knew... is your way. And you're very good at it.
It's called thinly veiled sarcasm and condecension. It likely will not be addressed (now that those you are this way to, who were in position to stop you, are gone.) You are never this way toward those who believe as you do. So likely you won't be called on it again anytime soon.
But if you can't be polite and argue your "faith alone" doctrine than you've missed many of the other doctrines of the Bible in your quest to refute the message of the Apostles when the church was born.
Mrs. LPW
02-22-2008, 12:03 PM
I stand corrected on Simon the Sorceror...
However, with my mistake, it is recorded that Simon believed... that is faith.
Mrs. LPW
02-22-2008, 12:06 PM
Do you really expect me to disagree with you?
It bothers me when I hear trinitarians referred to as "three-godists." That, even though I completely disagree with their theology.
Debate is squelched immediately when terms like that are thrown around.
... yes, that and the fact that most trinitarians aren't three-godists at all.
Found it...Thanks..
Is Genuine Faith also being obedient to the Word?
Is that a part of Faith?
Do you believe genuinely? Are you always obedient to all the Word? Will your disobedience in one area mean you are going to split Hell wide open?
Pressing-On
02-22-2008, 12:08 PM
Romans 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."
Romans 8:11 "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you."
Being that the epistles were written to people that were termed as "saints" and written to "the churches of", we conclude that somewhere they found salvation.
Acts shows how that Spirit came. It's a salvational message. It's a salvational issue.
So why did the men ask - "What shall we do?" Why were their hearts pricked? What did they think they needed at that point?
Daniel,
I'm still curious on your response to my post here?
:hanky
Mrs. LPW
02-22-2008, 12:20 PM
Brother Price;397688]In truth, the truth of salvation is found in Ephesians 2:8-9, the most ignored scriptures in Pentecost today...
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. {Ephesians 2:8-9}
I can't speak for every last preacher in Pentecost today, for certain. But I can speak for the many I've known. And I have yet to meet one who hasn't preached God's grace and unmerited favor. I have yet to meet one who was afraid to quote Ephesians 2... All of the preachers I have known have been grateful for the Grace that saved them and us. Amazing Grace... how sweet the sound. I don't know anyone who has ignored this scripture.
In fact, this scripture was written to people who were still trying to keep the Old Testement law, and expecting everyone to do so... the "works" referred to in this passage have nothing to do with our being Baptised in that beautiful name of Jesus when we've repented.
None of us can merit our salvation, and I've never heard a preacher preach that you could.
The Acts of the Apostles are written so we know how, when, where, why, who, and the like... when the church was born. How the Jews and Gentiles were both brought through the same door with the same keys.
Just wondered why no one had addressed the fact that the so-called "three steppers" don't believe you are saved by works.
That entering a covenant with the Lord isn't our own "works". But His Grace and our obedience.
Because really and truly, that is what we believe and anyone who tells you any different has an agenda.
Pressing-On
02-22-2008, 12:25 PM
Just wondered why no one had addressed the fact that the so-called "three steppers" don't believe you are saved by works.
That entering a covenant with the Lord isn't our own "works". But His Grace and our obedience.
Because really and truly, that is what we believe and anyone who tells you any different has an agenda.
I believe someone stated it was "unfortunate" to use the 3-stepper terminology in a derogatory way. I agree.
Mrs. LPW
02-22-2008, 12:28 PM
I believe someone stated it was "unfortunate" to use the 3-stepper terminology in a derogatory way. I agree.
Yes.. it is unfortunate, and even more unfortunate are the souls who will never hear the message the Apostles preached because of men equating obedience to works...
I stand corrected on Simon the Sorceror...
However, with my mistake, it is recorded that Simon believed... that is faith.
Before you stand their and take the correction... back up a minute.
if we are going to do this... I mean discount what the scripture says...
(kind of like "Acts 2 doesnt say 'what shall we do to be saved' it just says 'what shall we do')
remember what the good book says.
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.
Nowhere does it say "have genuine faith"
Simon "believed on Jesus Christ" that's all they say you have to have (unless ditching Acts 2:38 allows ditching other scirptures that talk about "believe")
But it didnt work for simon now did it?
Before you stand their and take the correction... back up a minute.
if we are going to do this... I mean discount what the scripture says...
(kind of like "Acts 2 doesnt say 'what shall we do to be saved' it just says 'what shall we do')
remember what the good book says.
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.
Nowhere does it say "have genuine faith"
Simon "believed on Jesus Christ" that's all they say you have to have (unless ditching Acts 2:38 allows ditching other scirptures that talk about "believe")
But it didnt work for simon now did it?
When the bible speaks of believing ... it's not mental assent, Ferd ... we know this ...
biblical faith/believing ... in its biblical context and in th Hebrew dealt w/ faithfulness, complete reliance, total submission, turning around completely ... etc.
Just wondered why no one had addressed the fact that the so-called "three steppers" don't believe you are saved by works.
That entering a covenant with the Lord isn't our own "works". But His Grace and our obedience.
Because really and truly, that is what we believe and anyone who tells you any different has an agenda.
Most Christian groups will not say they are saved by works .... PO.
I will answer your previous questions this evening.
Pressing-On
02-22-2008, 01:15 PM
Most Christian groups will not say they are saved by works ....
PO,
I will answer your previous questions this evening.
Thanks, I'm trying to do several things at once and don't have the time to focus on your response right now. Thank you for being so polite, Daniel!
Mrs. LPW
02-22-2008, 01:52 PM
Most Christian groups will not say they are saved by works .... PO.
I will answer your previous questions this evening.
I know this... but what point are you trying to make?
When the bible speaks of believing ... it's not mental assent, Ferd ... we know this ...
biblical faith/believing ... in its biblical context and in th Hebrew dealt w/ faithfulness, complete reliance, total submission, turning around completely ... etc.
see. why would anyone ask if the barn door was left open.
i checked. I didnt say "mental assent" nor did i infer it.
you however, keep scratching at the door with this notion that Simon's belief wasnt beleif but something else.
Believe and be saved bro! if your going to stand by it, STAND.
you however, keep scratching at the door with this notion that Simon's belief wasnt beleif but something else.
When have I said such a thing?
When have I said such a thing?
I tend to be a dolt.
did I miss something? it sure seems your view of Simon's experience was that he didnt have genuine faith. or some such.
RandyWayne
02-22-2008, 02:10 PM
... yes, that and the fact that most trinitarians aren't three-godists at all.
I always use the example of my dear grandma who was a very devote Catholic. I think she was the ONLY person I ever knew who was a true "trinitarian" in that she believed in three distinct person hoods, as well as the Mt Olympus style plethora of saints that ALL needed to be prayed too.
But I don't personally know anyone besides her who believed like that. Catholic or not.
Jehoram
02-22-2008, 02:18 PM
I always use the example of my dear grandma who was a very devote Catholic. I think she was the ONLY person I ever knew who was a true "trinitarian" in that she believed in three distinct person hoods, as well as the Mt Olympus style plethora of saints that ALL needed to be prayed too.
But I don't personally know anyone besides her who believed like that. Catholic or not.
I have met a few who believe in three, but when most hear me teach Oneness doctrine they have no problem with it. They usually say "that is exactly what I believe."
The rub is in the official creed of most trinitarians where the "three persons who are coequal, coexistent and coeternal" statment is made.
Mrs. LPW
02-22-2008, 03:17 PM
I have met a few who believe in three, but when most hear me teach Oneness doctrine they have no problem with it. They usually say "that is exactly what I believe."
The rub is in the official creed of most trinitarians where the "three persons who are coequal, coexistent and coeternal" statment is made.
True.
Pressing-On
02-22-2008, 03:47 PM
I have met a few who believe in three, but when most hear me teach Oneness doctrine they have no problem with it. They usually say "that is exactly what I believe."
The rub is in the official creed of most trinitarians where the "three persons who are coequal, coexistent and coeternal" statment is made.
True.
Yes, true!
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