Obama: Wrong On Iran

[vrblackwell]

OBAMA: WRONG ON IRAN

By DICK MORRIS & EILEEN MCGANN / Published on FOXNews.com on May 16, 2008.

President Bush is absolutely right to criticize sharply direct negotiations with Iranian President Ahmadinejad. Barack Obama’s embrace of the idea of direct negotiations is both naïve and dangerous and should be a big issue in the campaign.

The reason not to negotiate with Ahmadinejad is not simply to stand on ceremony or some kind of policy of non-recognition. It is based on the fundamental need to topple his regime by increasing the sense the Iranian people have — that he has isolated Iran from the rest of the world, to its severe and ongoing detriment...

continued here. http://www.dickmorris.com/blog/2008/05/17/obama-wrong-on-iran/#more-339

[Pressing-On]

If a President Obama were to meet with President Ahmadinejad, it would send a signal to the Iranian people that they are not isolated but that the rest of the world has come to respect them and to have to deal with them. The leading argument for toppling the current regime will have been fatally undermined.

But if the West sustains a policy of economic sanctions, curbs on foreign investment, and diplomatic isolation, the Iranian regime’s days are numbered.
Exactly! BUT I viewed a video clip where he "handily" turned that around as though he didn't mean what they say he is meaning. Very smooth on his part.

[Pressing-On]

Here is that clip. Very handily turned that around.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video_log/2008/05/obama_responds_to_bushs_appeas.html

[vrblackwell]

Here is that clip. Very handily turned that around.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video_log/2008/05/obama_responds_to_bushs_appeas.html

I've heard him say it to many time in other debates.

[Pressing-On]

I've heard him say it to many time in other debates.

He reminds me of a "know it all punk". :toofunny

[Pressing-On]

Here is McCain's rebuttal.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video_log/2008/05/mccain_responds_to_obamas_rema.html

McCain comes across as more experienced in what he knows. Obama does not come across as a man of wisdom for the task. He may have intelligence, but he does not have seasoned wisdom.

[pelathais]

Thanks for the links, VRB. "Negotiating" with Iran right now would be a lot like our "negotiations" with the North Koreans. These people do not want to talk openly with the outside world. They just want to use us to try and stir fear and paranoia among the small handful of mind-numbed robots in their respective countries that keep them in power.

By not enabling this tactic of theirs, we are in fact hastening the day when the Iranians and North Koreans and all of the others suffering under totalitarianism can shake off their chains.

[chosenbyone]

OBAMA: WRONG ON IRAN

By DICK MORRIS & EILEEN MCGANN / Published on FOXNews.com on May 16, 2008.

President Bush is absolutely right to criticize sharply direct negotiations with Iranian President Ahmadinejad. Barack Obama’s embrace of the idea of direct negotiations is both naïve and dangerous and should be a big issue in the campaign.

The reason not to negotiate with Ahmadinejad is not simply to stand on ceremony or some kind of policy of non-recognition. It is based on the fundamental need to topple his regime by increasing the sense the Iranian people have — that he has isolated Iran from the rest of the world, to its severe and ongoing detriment...

continued here. http://www.dickmorris.com/blog/2008/05/17/obama-wrong-on-iran/#more-339

Could you show me either in print or video where it shows Obama wanted to negotiate face to face with Ahmadinejad?

[AmericanAngel]

Could you show me either in print or video where it shows Obama wanted to negotiate face to face with Ahmadinejad?
If memory serves me right...I remember this very question being asked (or simular/enemies?) in the very early debates. Hilary said she would not and she was made fun of kinda and Obama said he would.

I know someone here could find those vidoe files, huh?

[chosenbyone]

If memory serves me right...I remember this very question being asked (or simular/enemies?) in the very early debates. Hilary said she would not and she was made fun of kinda and Obama said he would.

I know someone here could find those vidoe files, huh?

Thanks, AA. I am waiting patiently.:thumbsup

[Pressing-On]

Thanks, AA. I am waiting patiently.:thumbsup

Here's what you are looking for and, I believe, what AA is referencing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pw-oPjSeb4

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/capitalgames?pid=217102

This is the focus on that portion of the debate:

Obama had responded from the gut, working off a correct critique of the Bush administration's skeptical approach toward diplomacy. But his answer lacked the sophistication of Clinton's and Edwards' replies. And this moment illustrated perhaps the top peril for the Obama campaign: with this post-9/11 presidential contest, to a large degree, a question of who should be the next commander in chief, any misstep related to foreign policy is a big deal for a candidate who has little experience in national security matters.

[TRFrance]

I feel that if Obama becomes president, he will quickly surpass Jimmy Carter as America's worst president ever.

[pelathais]

I feel that if Obama becomes president, he will quickly surpass Jimmy Carter as America's worst president ever.
How can you be so correct in your political views but we fuss about other stuff? I want to shout a loud "Amen!" to some of the stuff you say and throw tomatoes at you at other times. http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Of course... the tomatoes splattered on the wall behind me had to have come from somewhere as well... http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/images/icons/icon11.gif

[vrblackwell]

Chosenbyone

The video that PO posted should be sufficient enough. That has always been his policy until he realized how unpopular it was with the majority of Americans.

Obama is a very inexperienced, and yes I agree, he will be worse then Jimmy Carter.

[ChristopherHall]

Most people don't understand how complex these things are. Obama agreed to "talks" with Iran. He never indicated what would be "negotiated".

Here's the deal, Obama's political enemies think you're so stupid that in your mind "talks" equals negotiations and compromise. Talks are only intended to begin dialogue to see how the enemy perceives "us" and how we can better take action to deal with such perception. For example is Iran thinks we are going to invade them, we know that we take action to calm those fears. We began talks with Russia, Korea, Britain, and nearly every other enemy we've ever had and those talks we most certainly would have faced far more military clashes with those enemies.

Talks are talks. They are not "negotiations". They are not "compromises". Iran isn't going away. Iran isn't going to wake up tomorrow and say, "Ya know...them American's are OK." We need to engage in strong diplomatic talks with all concerned.

Bush has trashed America's image...and now we need someone with the guts to rebuild that image. Not another policy of ignore them and bomb them.

[Pressing-On]

Most people don't understand how complex these things are. Obama agreed to "talks" with Iran. He never indicated what would be "negotiated".

Here's the deal, Obama's political enemies think you're so stupid that in your mind "talks" equals negotiations and compromise. Talks are only intended to begin dialogue to see how the enemy perceives "us" and how we can better take action to deal with such perception. For example is Iran thinks we are going to invade them, we know that we take action to calm those fears. We began talks with Russia, Korea, Britain, and nearly every other enemy we've ever had and those talks we most certainly would have faced far more military clashes with those enemies.

Talks are talks. They are not "negotiations". They are not "compromises". Iran isn't going away. Iran isn't going to wake up tomorrow and say, "Ya know...them American's are OK." We need to engage in strong diplomatic talks with all concerned.

Bush has trashed America's image...and now we need someone with the guts to rebuild that image. Not another policy of ignore them and bomb them.
Christopher,
I do see what you are saying when weighing the "talks", "negotiations" and "compromise".

BUT, Obama will still have to answer, this fall, the questions - "What will you talk about that has not already been said by more seasoned people than you? What will you "talk" about that will make a "change"? What will you "talk" about that will be hope? What will you "talk" about that will bring positive "action"?

http://texansforobama.typepad.com/blog/images/2007/03/29/obama_hac_logo.gif

WHAT will you talk about, Obama? What solutions do YOU have?

[Michael The Disciple]

I am fully against Obama. Baby killing and Gay promotion is the ruin of the nation now. But in this instance yes talk to the Iranian guy. People say what would be the first thing you would say to him. I would say "What could Israel do to get you to quit threatening them?

Go from there. If there is nothing that can be done get up and walk away.

Nothing ventured nothing gained.

[ChristopherHall]

Christopher,
I do see what you are saying when weighing the "talks", "negotiations" and "compromise".

BUT, Obama will still have to answer, this fall, the questions - "What will you talk about that has not already been said by more seasoned people than you? What will you "talk" about that will make a "change"? What will you "talk" about that will be hope? What will you "talk" about that will bring positive "action"?

http://texansforobama.typepad.com/blog/images/2007/03/29/obama_hac_logo.gif

WHAT will you talk about, Obama? What solutions do YOU have?

I don't think Obama will have any solutions that are different from those who came before. I do think that he may have a different perspective, being relatively new to the international scene. Often being "less seasoned" means one is less bound to traditional perspectives. I think his more likely to think outside of the box.

[ChristopherHall]

I am fully against Obama. Baby killing and Gay promotion is the ruin of the nation now. But in this instance yes talk to the Iranian guy. People say what would be the first thing you would say to him. I would say "What could Israel do to get you to quit threatening them?

Go from there. If there is nothing that can be done get up and walk away.

Nothing ventured nothing gained.

True.

Let me propose something to you. The majority of the justices that ruled in favor of gay marriage in California, and even in cases gone to the SCOTUS were appointed by Conservative Republicans. Also Republicans have done virtually nothing to stem the tide of abortions in our country. In the South, we even see Republicans hindering legislation proposed by Pro-Life Democrats.

The Republicans aren't going to address these issues. In fact...government can't address these issues. Democrat or Republican...we as the Church have to condemn these issues on moral grounds.

So in my opinion the idea that the GOP is the answer to the issues of abortion and gay marriage is a joke. They've had power and have done virtually NOTHING. This election is about the economy, health care, the war, and newer and better fuel technologies. Sadly, Republicans are just offering more of the same.

[DividedThigh]

obamas statements about foreign policy clearly show his lack of seasoning and experience on the international stage, he will be worse than jimma carta for sure, might be good for him to get elected so people can see what a mess he can make in four years, gwb in some small minds has trashed our countries image, but i actually like the fact that the islamo fascists hate him, it means they fear us, all for that, dt:bliss

[Rico]

I feel that if Obama becomes president, he will quickly surpass Jimmy Carter as America's worst president ever.

Say what you want about Jimmy Carter, but he did broker a peace treaty between Egypt and Israel that has lasted for over 30 years. No other President has come close to what he achieved for Middle East peace.

[ChristopherHall]

Say what you want about Jimmy Carter, but he did broker a peace treaty between Egypt and Israel that has lasted for over 30 years. No other President has come close to what he achieved for Middle East peace.

Also Carter negotiated the release of hostages...but because the hostages were released after Reagan won the election Reagan took much of the credit.

[Rico]

Also Carter negotiated the release of hostages...but because the hostages were released after Reagan won the election Reagan took much of the credit.


I saw a program on the History Channel that dealt with the Carter years. There's a lot he did that he doesn't get credit for.

[Baron1710]

I saw a program on the History Channel that dealt with the Carter years. There's a lot he did that he doesn't get credit for.

Sure, like keeping track of who was using the tennis court.

[Rico]

Sure, like keeping track of who was using the tennis court.

Oooooooooooooook. Whatever that means. :lol

[DividedThigh]

i would have let the hostages go too especially since the reaganator was coming into offcice and had the guts to do what he had to, to defend our country, dt

[Baron1710]

Oooooooooooooook. Whatever that means. :lol

Carter was a micro manager and wasn't too good at delegation. It has been said he personally kept track of who used the tennis court at the White House.

[ChristopherHall]

obamas statements about foreign policy clearly show his lack of seasoning and experience on the international stage, he will be worse than jimma carta for sure, might be good for him to get elected so people can see what a mess he can make in four years, gwb in some small minds has trashed our countries image, but i actually like the fact that the islamo fascists hate him, it means they fear us, all for that, dt:bliss
Bro, the majority of the world has lost much respect for the US. It’s not just “some small minds”. Also President Bush’s approval rating is the lowest in recent history. Americans are hurting and the majority of us are far worse off than we were when Clinton left office. Bush’s policies are a tragic flop. Sadly, men like McCain who could be great leaders of our country only want to perpetuate President Bush’s loony policies.
Our enemies aren’t going away. We can’t afford to stick our heads into the sand and ignore them only to scramble for talks once they do finally gain nuclear weapons. We need to engage in solid talks with them expressing our concerns and build a solid moral consensus that we have taken EVERY effort to avoid military confrontation. Most Christians believe in the “Just War” doctrine. A vital part of this approach is that all non-violent measures must be exhausted before military force is justified. Engaging in talks with our enemies will first set the moral tone that WE are no threat and that WE are reaching out. If THEY fail to honor our talks or if THEY refuse to talk it makes them look extreme and uncompromising. Right now leaders in the Middle East are telling citizens of Middle Eastern nations that he reason we will not talk with them is because we are terrified that they will bring valid grievances to the table against the US for the entire world to see. Their leaders are using our cowboy diplomacy to fuel their cause.
We ignore them at our own peril. At the very least, demonstrating an effort to talk will give us moral high ground in the world’s eyes if military action is ever needed.
Bush’s Cowboy Diplomacy has gotten too many of us “stuck on stupid”.

[ChristopherHall]

i would have let the hostages go too especially since the reaganator was coming into offcice and had the guts to do what he had to, to defend our country, dt

The release was already agreed upon based on established conditions. The hostages were released after Carter left office to slap him in the face so he couldn't claim it as an achievement in his term. The enemy didn't just scramble and say, OK, we'll release now. Geesh. You think we're stupid.

[Rico]

Carter was a micro manager and wasn't too good at delegation. It has been said he personally kept track of who used the tennis court at the White House.

Ahhhhhh. I see.

[DividedThigh]

chris why dont you address someone who actually cares what you think, i sure dont, your little world will crumble, sorry for you , i really am, i was an adult when that stuff happened, i think i know a bit more about it than you, what were you in diapers or something, dt

[Rico]

The release was already agreed upon based on established conditions. The hostages were released after Carter left office to slap him in the face so he couldn't claim it as an achievement in his term. The enemy didn't just scramble and say, OK, we'll release now. Geesh. You think we're stupid.


This is one of the points they made during this program.

[Rico]

chris why dont you address someone who actually cares what you think, i sure dont, your little world will crumble, sorry for you , i really am, i was an adult when that stuff happened, i think i know a bit more about it than you, what were you in diapers or something, dt

What he's saying about the hostage crisis is true, DT. Reagan had very little to do with them being released, even though he got the credit for it.

[DividedThigh]

What he's saying about the hostage crisis is true, DT. Reagan had very little to do with them being released, even though he got the credit for it.

whatever, i still believe that they knew it had to end, or get worse for them, and i was there, that is what many people thought, dt

[Rico]

whatever, i still believe that they knew it had to end, or get worse for them, and i was there, that is what many people thought, dt

:lol Well, if you want to believe that the hostage takers suddenly got afraid and decided to release the hostages, knock yourself out. You are free to believe anything you want. That's not what happened, though. Their release had already been negotiated by the time Reagan took office.

[ChristopherHall]

chris why dont you address someone who actually cares what you think, i sure dont, your little world will crumble, sorry for you , i really am, i was an adult when that stuff happened, i think i know a bit more about it than you, what were you in diapers or something, dt

You're a Republican partisian. Nothing you say regarding the Democrats can be trusted. You'll hide the truth if it will make Republicans look good.

Since your so much older DT, and you remember these events, I think this proves how you'll distort the truth even about the marginal success of a Democrat. You have no creditability.

Since you believe Reagan deserves the credit for the hostage release...back it up with facts. There are documenatries and books galore about the work of the Carter Administration. Give us something to look at that would indicate otherwise.

[DividedThigh]

chris you are losing your mind, dont address me again, you are just a kid, get some brains before you talk, you are a liberal hiding like you might be a conservative you arent fooling anyone, for the last time, you dont know me, that is fine, ignore for you, i dont have time to fool with you, even though i feel sorry for you, dt

[Rico]

DT, you might find this little video clip interesting.

http://www.history.com/media.do?id=tdih_jan20_broadband&action=clip

[Baron1710]

You're a Republican partisian. Nothing you say regarding the Democrats can be trusted. You'll hide the truth if it will make Republicans look good.

Since your so much older DT, and you remember these events, I think this proves how you'll lie even about the marginal success of a Democrat. You have no creditability.

Since you believe Reagan deserves the credit for the hostage release...back it up with facts. There are documenatries and books galore about the work of the Carter Administration. Give us something to look at that would indicate otherwise.

So now we have to disprove the conspiracy theories of the democrats. How there were secret meeting with the Iranians so that they wouldn't release the prisoners until after the election. Because a country that hates the US is going to meet with unelected people and negotiate a deal to help the next President and make him more powerful. Makes perfect sense. It really is hard to believe people buy into such nonsense.

[DividedThigh]

for the record i have always voted my christian values, not for a party, i find it amusing that children can be so aggressive and ugly to people they dont even know, so back to work, dt

[Rico]

So now we have to disprove the conspiracy theories of the democrats. How there were secret meeting with the Iranians so that they wouldn't release the prisoners until after the election. Because a country that hates the US is going to meet with unelected people and negotiate a deal to help the next President and make him more powerful. Makes perfect sense. It really is hard to believe people buy into such nonsense.


Baron, what conspiracy theories are you talking about? Reagan did not negotiate their release.

[DividedThigh]

rico, bro i dont think anyone is saying that reagan negotiated there release, but no matter what happened back then that does not change the fact that obama does not have the experience or seasoning to handle this stuff or also that jimma carter was a failure, there is a reason people called him a pitiful prez, dt

[ChristopherHall]

chris you are losing your mind, dont address me again, you are just a kid, get some brains before you talk, you are a liberal hiding like you might be a conservative you arent fooling anyone, for the last time, you dont know me, that is fine, ignore for you, i dont have time to fool with you, even though i feel sorry for you, dt
No DT….you’re a cool-aide drinking conservative. You don’t even have what it takes to acknowledge marginal success of a Democrat. I don’t like about 80%-90% of what I’ve read about Carter…but I’m honest about the hostage issue. He tirelessly did worked to get them released in the midst of a campaign season. I’m confident President Bush would have let our hostages ROT while he refused to talk and focused on winning another election.
I’m an ANGRY conservative. I’m angry because I was assured that the Republicans would make life better in the United States and they’ve just raped us. They made promises about gay marriage and abortion but they’ve not stood by a single one of them. The Republicans got us involved in an unnecessary war where 80,000 civilians have died and the villain that masterminded 9/11 is still sending us videos. The Republicans have policies that have undermined the strength of the dollar and the economic stability of the American worker, at least those who still have jobs.
I think the Republicans have failed and they deserve to suffer like any other failed political party…they deserve to be voted out. First, this will show them that they have to do better next time to keep office. Second, I don’t trust them one bit.
I do believe the Democrats have a greater propensity to handle the economy in the American worker’s best interest, make health insurance more affordable, and get Iraqis back to running their own country.
Some folks would vote for a Republican because they claim to be Pro-Life and Pro-Family….and then make excuses and even praise that Republican for selling that person’s grandmother to the Chinese in the name of “free trade”. It’s all about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
So go ahead, personally insult me again. But it doesn’t change the facts…you’re distorting the truth regarding Carter on this issue because you can’t accept that a Democrat had marginal success. You’d have far greater creditability if you admitted that Carter did do well on this issue and then expressed how you feel he failed on issues were he really failed, like the North Korean negotiations. Those were an abysmal failure.

[ChristopherHall]

rico, bro i dont think anyone is saying that reagan negotiated there release, but no matter what happened back then that does not change the fact that obama does not have the experience or seasoning to handle this stuff or also that jimma carter was a failure, there is a reason people called him a pitiful prez, dt

DT, it's evident you don't know the background information of what even happened.

Fresh minds bring fresh ideas. Also don't neglect to mention that you're not considering who Obama may choose to advise him regarding international affairs.

[Rico]

rico, bro i dont think anyone is saying that reagan negotiated there release, but no matter what happened back then that does not change the fact that obama does not have the experience or seasoning to handle this stuff or also that jimma carter was a failure, there is a reason people called him a pitiful prez, dt

Again, say what you want about Jimmy Carter, but he brokered a peace treaty between Egypt and Israel that has lasted to this day. No one can take that away from him, DT. No other president has managed to accomplish the same thing with other enemies of Israel.

As for Obama, ready or not he's headed for the Whitehouse. It matters more who he chooses to be his advisers than the fact that he doesn't have as much experience in foreign affairs as his opponent. While the President will have the final say on foreign policy, he doesn't make those decisions without advisers.

[DividedThigh]

i dont mind discussing things even with people that are immature but i draw the line at spreading falsehoods, i would never distort anything, to make any body look good, for that the offending party owes me an apology, other than that i have nothing to say to them,dt

[DividedThigh]

Again, say what you want about Jimmy Carter, but he brokered a peace treaty between Egypt and Israel that has lasted to this day. No one can take that away from him, DT. No other president has managed to accomplish the same thing with other enemies of Israel.

As for Obama, ready or not he's headed for the Whitehouse. It matters more who he chooses to be his advisers than the fact that he doesn't have as much experience in foreign affairs as his opponent. While the President will have the final say on foreign policy, he doesn't make those decisions without advisers.

well of course he did, but there were many other things that he did or didnt do rico, i am not the one that calls him not good as a prez in history, when he first came into office i was happy, 17 but happy cause he was a christian, but was sorely disappointed by him later, dt

[ChristopherHall]

i dont mind discussing things even with people that are immature but i draw the line at spreading falsehoods, i would never distort anything, to make any body look good, for that the offending party owes me an apology, other than that i have nothing to say to them,dt

DividedThigh, I took a little jab at you here but I'm modifying this post because I really want you to take my apology seriously.

I'm sorry if I offended you. You just seemed to be distorting the facts. If I'm mistaken please forgive me. Friends?

[ChristopherHall]

well of course he did, but there were many other things that he did or didnt do rico, i am not the one that calls him not good as a prez in history, when he first came into office i was happy, 17 but happy cause he was a christian, but was sorely disappointed by him later, dt
Now you’re drifting toward reality. But I got to give you credit…you’re moving subtly so as to not draw attention to your partisanship bias.

[Rico]

well of course he did, but there were many other things that he did or didnt do rico, i am not the one that calls him not good as a prez in history, when he first came into office i was happy, 17 but happy cause he was a christian, but was sorely disappointed by him later, dt


That's how I feel about President Bush. I supported him, voted for him twice, and was firmly behind him after 9/11. It wasn't until this war in Iraq became more of a civil war that my support for him started to waver. We have spent $600,000,000,000 on this war with no end in sight.

In the meantime, things here at home have gone down the toilet. People are losing their homes left and right, the price fuel has gone through the roof, food is getting more and more expensive with every passing week, jobs are getting harder and harder to find, etc. I'm not blaming Bush for these things happening, but it would be nice to see some more leadership coming from him regarding these issues. It's almost as if his administration is focused almost exclusively on the war effort. If we had spent the same amount of money on domestic issues as has been spent on the war effort I believe things would be much better for us on the home front.

[ChristopherHall]

But the subject of this thread is Obama being wrong on Iran. Do you believe we should ignore them (like you're doing me) until they just start playing in the flowers and dancing with Israel?

Bro...we might play hardline cowboy diplomacy and refuse to talk to them...only wake up to a mushroom cloud over a major city. We need to engage in talks and show the world WE are the ones seeking peace. That will justify any necessary military action to disarm Iran.

[DanielR]

It doesn't matter whether you vote Democrate or Republican the outcome is always the same. Although there may be minor fluctuations depending on which party is in control, in the big picture it all looks the same. I am a former Republican because they are looking too much like the democrate party. It's time we started backing minority parties so that we can get some better government to take hold.

[Rico]

Did Carter work tirelessly for the release of US hostages? Yes.
Was the deal to release the hostages after the election already negotiated? Yes.

So who's acting immature now? You wont talk to me because I want to hear you clarify the facts and called you on your distortion?

Ok, I'll apologize. I'm sorry you completely disregarded the facts about the hostage release that Carter negotiated and insinuated that Reagan somehow deserved the credit.

I hope that apology is fitting bro. Friends? :lol

CH, when someone tells you they aren't interested in posting with you, it makes more sense to leave that person alone than to keep on posting to them. Someone I know did that to me and ended up on my ignore list for a good long while before I was willing to post to her again. DT doesn't want to post with you right now. Be man enough to respect his wishes until he is ready to chat with you again.

[DividedThigh]

That's how I feel about President Bush. I supported him, voted for him twice, and was firmly behind him after 9/11. It wasn't until this war in Iraq became more of a civil war that my support for him started to waver. We have spent $600,000,000,000 on this war with no end in sight.

In the meantime, things here at home have gone down the toilet. People are losing their homes left and right, the price fuel has gone through the roof, food is getting more and more expensive with every passing week, jobs are getting harder and harder to find, etc. I'm not blaming Bush for these things happening, but it would be nice to see some more leadership coming from him regarding these issues. It's almost as if his administration is focused almost exclusively on the war effort. If we had spent the same amount of money on domestic issues as has been spent on the war effort I believe things would be much better for us on the home front.

well rico, we disagree on the war, that is fine, but i personally dont like some of gwb's policies either, but i do think he is a good man, and tries , sometimes not successfully, but he has faith and that is encouraging, i want things to improve too , dt

[Rico]

It doesn't matter whether you vote Democrate or Republican the outcome is always the same. Although there may be minor fluctuations depending on which party is in control, in the big picture it all looks the same. I am a former Republican because they are looking too much like the democrate party. It's time we started backing minority parties so that we can get some better government to take hold.

I would agree with you in terms of foreign policy. It seems that some things are set in stone regarding US foreign policy, regardless of who is in office. My feeling is that even if we had had a democratic president, we still would have invaded Iraq. I don't know that we would still be there, though.

[ChristopherHall]

Sorry Rico, I thought he said,

for that the offending party owes me an apology, other than that i have nothing to say to them,dt

I was primarily wanting to offer an apology. Sometimes I think these guys are just not hurting as bad as so many of the rest of us. My wife and I are in pure HADES trying to work with the bank to keep our home and we don't even have one of those crazy loans that went bad. Dude, the rising cost of gasoline possible loss of our home and the rising cost of food is killing us. And now there's a rumor she might be facing a layoff. I just want to be a good father and husband and home a home and live a modest life. What gives?

[Rico]

Sorry Rico, I thought he said,



I was primarily wanting to offer an apology. Sometimes I think these guys are just not hurting as bad as so many of the rest of us. My wife and I are in pure HADES trying to work with the bank to keep our home and we don't even have one of those crazy loans that went bad. Dude, the rising cost of gasoline and food is killing us.

You call that post a sincere apology? You basically told him you were sorry that he was wrong. DUH?!?!?! That wasn't an apology, CH; that was an insult.

I don't know all the circumstances surrounding what you are facing right now, so I don't feel comfortable commenting on it.

[ChristopherHall]

You call that post a sincere apology? You basically told him you were sorry that he was wrong. DUH?!?!?! That wasn't an apology, CH; that was an insult.

I don't know all the circumstances surrounding what you are facing right now, so I don't feel comfortable commenting on it.

It was meant as a friendly jab. Me and DT lock horns all the time and we both can give and take it pretty good. But I'll change the post because I can see what you're saying.

Rico...you know you mentioned being insulted. Here's an honest question. Would it upset you if someone insinuated that if you voted Democratic as opposed to Republican you'd be a baby killer or supporting those who kill babies?

I just experienced that and dude, how do you respond to that one?

[DividedThigh]

fact is that i am sure the carter admin was trying to get those hostages back and also even made an attempt at a rescue, which failed, but i do know that many people believed that things were hastened along by the new prez coming into office, i have no doubt that all good americans wanted an end to that awful situation as well as they do now, dt

[Rico]

It was meant as a friendly jab. Me and DT lock horns all the time and we both can give and take it pretty good. But I'll change the post because I can see what you're saying.

Rico...you know you mentioned being insulted. Here's an honest question. Would it upset you if someone insinuated that if you voted Democratic as opposed to Republican you'd be a baby killer or supporting those who kill babies?

I just experienced that and dude, how do you respond to that one?

CH, you need to smart enough to pick and choose your battles. That's my best piece of advice. You know you aren't a baby killer, so don't let it bother you. If you find yourself agreeing more with the democratic party on domestic and foreign issues than the republicans then vote your conscience. While I have voted republican for most of my adult life, I am not against voting for a democrat, if I find myself in agreement with one on enough issues. Abortion and gay marriage are serious issues, but my feelings on them aren't the sole deciding factors in who I vote for or against.

To be honest, I am against abortion because I think it's a form of murder, but I am in favor of a woman having the right to make that choice for herself. I believe homosexuality is a sin, but I don't think it's fair that two committed homosexuals don't have access to things like health insurance and next of kin rights.

[ChristopherHall]

Very balanced answer Rico. I can respect that. I think for me the issue is that my real name is on my posts. When someone labels me they don't label a code name. They label me. Maybe I'll switch to an alias and stay with it. lol

[Baron1710]

Very balanced answer Rico. I can respect that. I think for me the issue is that my real name is on my posts. When someone labels me they don't label a code name. They label me. Maybe I'll switch to an alias and stay with it. lol

We will just call you grasshopper from now on.

[DividedThigh]

We will just call you grasshopper from now on.

lol, do you get to step on those, lol:boxing

[Baron1710]

lol, do you get to step on those, lol:boxing

I was thinking more along the lines of the TV series Kung Fu when the young man had a lot to learn from the master. "When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave."

[Rico]

I don't agree with a lot of what CH posts. I will, however, say this much in his favor. This is a man who researches things before he makes all these long posts. Most of us give our opinions on things and provide little evidence of how we came to hold these opinions. No, I am not encouraging him to continue posting 1000 word essays :D, but I can see that he thinks things through before he makes up his mind.

[DividedThigh]

I don't agree with a lot of what CH posts. I will, however, say this much in his favor. This is a man who researches things before he makes all these long posts. Most of us give our opinions on things and provide little evidence of how we came to hold these opinions. No, I am not encouraging him to continue posting 1000 word essays :D, but I can see that he thinks things through before he makes up his mind.

which mind is that, lol, just kidding rico, dt

[DividedThigh]

I was thinking more along the lines of the TV series Kung Fu when the young man had a lot to learn from the master. "When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave."

i know bro, nice analogy, i just thought steppin on grasshoppers was funny, but hey i aint no eco freak, lol,dt

[Baron1710]

i know bro, nice analogy, i just thought steppin on grasshoppers was funny, but hey i aint no eco freak, lol,dt

Come on try the grasshopper, you can lick the frog for dessert.

[Grasshopper]

lol, do you get to step on those, lol:boxing

C'ome on! Wanna fight. Errrrr :boxing :lol

[Baron1710]

C'ome on! Wanna fight. Errrrr :boxing :lol

Nice.

[DividedThigh]

C'ome on! Wanna fight. Errrrr :boxing :lol

sure, lol, dt:boxing:macho:beatdeadhorse:hurtyou

[Grasshopper]

sure, lol, dt:boxing:macho:beatdeadhorse:hurtyou

:evilglee

:nuke

[DividedThigh]

:evilglee

:nuke

nice grasshopper, you made me laugh, sure go for the nuclear option right away, lol:boxing

[Grasshopper]

That's what I would have done in 2002. I would have vaporized Osama. hehehe

No seriously...I'm just clownin' around. ;)

[DividedThigh]

That's what I would have done in 2002. I would have vaporized Osama. hehehe

No seriously...I'm just clownin' around. ;)

i see, but grass how about the innocents, we must worry about them, lol,dt

[Grasshopper]

i see, but grass how about the innocents, we must worry about them, lol,dt

Now you're catchin' on. lol

[DividedThigh]

Now you're catchin' on. lol

so you think, lol,dt

[rgcraig]

Do you think this is true?

If so, scary!!!!

Monday, April 14, 2008 7:57 AM
Subject: Message from Missionaries about Obama

We need to get this message out! Please circulate this to all your
contacts!
This man must not get into office.

Celeste and Loren Davis are Missionaries in Africa and can shed some
light on one of our Presidential candidates.

Thanks for sending out an alert about Obama. We are living and
working in Kenya for almost twelve years now and know his family
(tribe) well. They are the ones who were behind the recent
Presidential election chaos here. Thousands of people have been
displaced by election violence(over 350,000) and I don't know the
last count of the dead.Obama under friends of Obama gave almost
a million dollars to the opposition campaign who just happened to be
his cousin, Raila Odinga, who is a socialist trained in east germany.

He has been trying to bring Kenya down for years and the last
president threw him in prison for trying to subvert this country!
December 27th elections brought cries from ODM (Odinga Camp) of
rigged election. Obama and Raila speak daily.As we watch Obama rise
in the US we are sure that whatever happens, he will use the same
tactic,cyring rigged election if he doesn't win and possibly cause
a race war in America.

What we would like you to know is what the American press has been
keeping a dirty little secret. Obama IS a muslim and he IS a racist and
this is a fullfilllment of the 911 threat that was just the beginning. Jihad
is the only true muslim way. We've been working with them for 20 years
this july! He is not an American as we know it.

Please encourage your friends and associates not to be taken in by
those that are promoting him. It is world wide jihad. All our friends in
Europe are very disturbed by the mulsim infiltration into their country.
By the way. His true name is Barak Hussein Muhammed Obama.
Won't that sound sweet to our enemies as they swear him in on the Koran!

Pray for us here in Kenya. We are still fighting for our nation to
withstand the same kind of assault that every nation, including
America, is fighting. Takeover from the outside to fit the new world
order. As believers, this means we will be their first targets.
Here in Kenya, not one mosque was burned down, but hundreds of
churches were burned down, some with people in them, burned alive.

Jesus Christ is our peace, but the new world order of Globalism has
infiltrated the church and confused believers into thinking that they
can compromise and survive. It will not happen. I will send you a
newsletter we sent out documenting in a more cohesive manner
what I've tried to say in these few paragraphs.

Love, Celeste
Celeste and Loren Davis
About our Father's business!

Luke 2:49b
God bless you,,

J. Nowacki

[DividedThigh]

that is a little scary renda, nowacki is a good guy, but the info wish there was a way to verify, dt

[Rico]

Do you think this is true?

If so, scary!!!!

Monday, April 14, 2008 7:57 AM
Subject: Message from Missionaries about Obama

We need to get this message out! Please circulate this to all your
contacts!
This man must not get into office.

Celeste and Loren Davis are Missionaries in Africa and can shed some
light on one of our Presidential candidates.

Thanks for sending out an alert about Obama. We are living and
working in Kenya for almost twelve years now and know his family
(tribe) well. They are the ones who were behind the recent
Presidential election chaos here. Thousands of people have been
displaced by election violence(over 350,000) and I don't know the
last count of the dead.Obama under friends of Obama gave almost
a million dollars to the opposition campaign who just happened to be
his cousin, Raila Odinga, who is a socialist trained in east germany.

He has been trying to bring Kenya down for years and the last
president threw him in prison for trying to subvert this country!
December 27th elections brought cries from ODM (Odinga Camp) of
rigged election. Obama and Raila speak daily.As we watch Obama rise
in the US we are sure that whatever happens, he will use the same
tactic,cyring rigged election if he doesn't win and possibly cause
a race war in America.

What we would like you to know is what the American press has been
keeping a dirty little secret. Obama IS a muslim and he IS a racist and
this is a fullfilllment of the 911 threat that was just the beginning. Jihad
is the only true muslim way. We've been working with them for 20 years
this july! He is not an American as we know it.

Please encourage your friends and associates not to be taken in by
those that are promoting him. It is world wide jihad. All our friends in
Europe are very disturbed by the mulsim infiltration into their country.
By the way. His true name is Barak Hussein Muhammed Obama.
Won't that sound sweet to our enemies as they swear him in on the Koran!

Pray for us here in Kenya. We are still fighting for our nation to
withstand the same kind of assault that every nation, including
America, is fighting. Takeover from the outside to fit the new world
order. As believers, this means we will be their first targets.
Here in Kenya, not one mosque was burned down, but hundreds of
churches were burned down, some with people in them, burned alive.

Jesus Christ is our peace, but the new world order of Globalism has
infiltrated the church and confused believers into thinking that they
can compromise and survive. It will not happen. I will send you a
newsletter we sent out documenting in a more cohesive manner
what I've tried to say in these few paragraphs.

Love, Celeste
Celeste and Loren Davis
About our Father's business!

Luke 2:49b
God bless you,,

J. Nowacki

Do you seriously think that, if this were true, the Republicans or Hillary Clinton wouldn't have already brought it up to slam Obama? If this is being circulated via email then that means it's common knowledge, right? Not one single mention of it from Clinton or McCain pretty much indicates that we need to take it with a grain of salt.

[Ferd]

so does anyone think Obama is right to talk to Akmapuke?

[DividedThigh]

so does anyone think Obama is right to talk to Akmapuke?

i dont think he is, i think he is naive and ignorant especially regarding foreign affairs, but they all just spend time defending jimma carta or something othere than deal with his ignorance and immaturity, and lack of commitment to the country, dt

[Ferd]

i dont think he is, i think he is naive and ignorant especially regarding foreign affairs, but they all just spend time defending jimma carta or something othere than deal with his ignorance and immaturity, and lack of commitment to the country, dt

the idiot Obama sited JFK meeting with the Russians. that meeting led the russians to think JFK was weak and they decided to put missiles in Cuba!

what an idiot. he sites a failure to prove his reasoning to repeat the failure.

and this guy is likely to be the next president!