View Full Version : The Upcoming Republican Defeat
:D I knew that would get your attention. :D
I have been thinking about this upcoming election and what it could mean for America. I've read a lot of posts on this site from people who are worried about Barak Obama winning. It's almost as if you guys think God is pulling for the Republicans to win or something. Something dawned on me a little bit ago, while I was responding to a post from TRFrance. God is neither Republican nor Democrat. Both those designations are man made. God is holy and both parties fall equally short on doing anything to "represent" God in this country. Having a Republican or Democrat in the White House isn't gonna make a bit of difference in God's plans for mankind. Either party isn't going to hasten or delay the coming of the Lord.
With that in mind, I don't see why we get so caught up in politics. Good Lord! It's even affected how we refer to each others as brothers. This one is a conservative, that one is a liberal, that one is a moderate, yada, yada. Don't get me wrong. I believe in voting. I have just realized that we make our choices for selfish reasons. "I support candidate x because I agree with him/her on such and thus, etc. etc." It all boils down to getting our way. You can't convince me it's God leading you to vote this way or that way, because Brother So and So, who supports the other side, believes God is leading him as well, and we all know God isn't going to pull against Himself. It just seems to me like this whole stinkin mess is an exercise in vanity. God knows the end from the beginning and things are going to happen how they were meant to happen, in the time they were meant to happen because God planned for them to happen this way. We aren't in control of nuthin. It's all in His hands.
I don't know why I decided to post this. Just rambling, I guess. I honestly think Barak Obama is going to win this election. I may be wrong. Won't be the first time either. I just don't think it's going to mean as much as we like to believe it will. God is our Source. Not the republicans, not the democrats, not our jobs, not the welfare system, not the UN, not any of these things. We could lose everything we have; houses, cars, jobs, the very clothes on our backs. It still wouldn't change the fact that God is our Source. I've got several scriptures screamin at me inside my head right now. :lol Not gonna post them, though. I'm just gonna sit here and thank God for being my Source. Carry on.
Antipas
05-20-2008, 05:58 AM
Political things are worldly and carnal. Throughout history many Christians chose not to get absorbed into the political machines of their day, they could discern that they would become pawns of the political powers of this world.
I say, vote at your own risk.
DividedThigh
05-20-2008, 08:04 AM
fact is we have an obligation to vote and at least try to get our voice heard, who knows what will happen, me and mine will live for the lord anyway, but i think the most important thing that will happen is the judges , since they seem to be shaping our laws more than our lawmakers, dt
Truthseeker
05-20-2008, 08:09 AM
I'm for neither, but I don't think Obama will win, at least I hope not.
Michael The Disciple
05-20-2008, 08:21 AM
If abortion and gay were not issues I probably would not vote. Unless Mcain comes out in public against them I still wont.
DividedThigh
05-20-2008, 09:03 AM
if mccain has a chance at all he will have to shift hard right to get the base motivated , just dont know if he has it in him, we will see, dt
Political things are worldly and carnal. Throughout history many Christians chose not to get absorbed into the political machines of their day, they could discern that they would become pawns of the political powers of this world.
I say, vote at your own risk.
And I say as Christians we have a responsibility to work for as moral a government and laws as possible and that means voting for the canidates and political parties that most support Christian values.
It is naive to think it doesnt matter. Just a few days ago USA Today had an article about the lasting effects of the many conservative judges Ronald Reagan appointed to the Federal courts. If not for these judges somewhat holding back the flood of judicial activism there is no telling how much worse the country would be today.
Burying ones head in the sand and wahing ones hands of politics may seem pious but it is in fact a dereliction of ones responsibilty to God and family.
There are real differences between canidates and parties and those real differences have great impact on moral issues like partial birth abortion, etc.
DividedThigh
05-20-2008, 09:10 AM
well said cc1, i agree we do have a responibility to do our duty, dt
Light
05-20-2008, 09:19 AM
If abortion and gay were not issues I probably would not vote. Unless Mcain comes out in public against them I still wont.
Here we go again. If the republicans in 12 years of control didn't send a bill to completely stop abortion what makes you think they will stop it even if they control for another 8 years.
Abortion and gay issues are the republicans only selling point for those ignorant enough to believe they want to overturn ROW verse Wade. They know what will push your buttons.
They have tried to scare the people with terrorism but that is failing so it's back to the tried and faithful, ABORTION.
TRFrance
05-20-2008, 09:32 AM
If abortion and gay were not issues I probably would not vote. Unless Mcain comes out in public against them I still wont.
Here we go again. If the republicans in 12 years of control didn't send a bill to completely stop abortion what makes you think they will stop it even if they control for another 8 years. Abortion and gay issues are the republicans only selling point for those ignorant enough to believe they want to overturn ROW verse Wade. They know what will push your buttons.
They have tried to scare the people with terrorism but that is failing so it's back to the tried and faithful, ABORTION.
Speaking as a conservative independent myself, I have to admit there’s probably a lot of truth in that.
The Repubs have given up on the abortion issue, and the gay marriage issue.
Like it or not, the writing is on the wall, and has been for a while now...
Realistically, abortion has become an irremovable part of American society now, as gay marriage will probably also be fairly soon. (Amnesty for illegal aliens is the next issue they’re in the process of giving up on too)
The Rethuglicans, however, know how to use the issue as red meat to get the base riled up every election cycle.
Here we go again. If the republicans in 12 years of control didn't send a bill to completely stop abortion what makes you think they will stop it even if they control for another 8 years.
Abortion and gay issues are the republicans only selling point for those ignorant enough to believe they want to overturn ROW verse Wade. They know what will push your buttons.
They have tried to scare the people with terrorism but that is failing so it's back to the tried and faithful, ABORTION.
No one is going to be able to overturn RvW in the current social climate. However it is the Republicans who got a ban on partial birth abortion. That would have never happened with a Democrat President.
To paint efforts as a failure because they don't get everything Christians want is incredibly naive and foolish.
Gains are incremental. Don't you think the babies that now will not have to endure the horror of partial birth abortion are worth it?
rgcraig
05-20-2008, 09:37 AM
Not sure this is factual, but it is from missionaries from UPCI.
Monday, April 14, 2008 7:57 AM
Subject: Message from Missionaries about Obama
We need to get this message out! Please circulate this to all your
contacts!
This man must not get into office.
Celeste and Loren Davis are Missionaries in Africa and can shed some
light on one of our Presidential candidates.
Thanks for sending out an alert about Obama. We are living and
working in Kenya for almost twelve years now and know his family
(tribe) well. They are the ones who were behind the recent
Presidential election chaos here. Thousands of people have been
displaced by election violence(over 350,000) and I don't know the
last count of the dead.Obama under friends of Obama gave almost
a million dollars to the opposition campaign who just happened to be
his cousin, Raila Odinga, who is a socialist trained in east germany.
He has been trying to bring Kenya down for years and the last
president threw him in prison for trying to subvert this country!
December 27th elections brought cries from ODM (Odinga Camp) of
rigged election. Obama and Raila speak daily.As we watch Obama rise
in the US we are sure that whatever happens, he will use the same
tactic,cyring rigged election if he doesn't win and possibly cause
a race war in America.
What we would like you to know is what the American press has been
keeping a dirty little secret. Obama IS a muslim and he IS a racist and
this is a fullfilllment of the 911 threat that was just the beginning. Jihad
is the only true muslim way. We've been working with them for 20 years
this july! He is not an American as we know it.
Please encourage your friends and associates not to be taken in by
those that are promoting him. It is world wide jihad. All our friends in
Europe are very disturbed by the mulsim infiltration into their country.
By the way. His true name is Barak Hussein Muhammed Obama.
Won't that sound sweet to our enemies as they swear him in on the Koran!
Pray for us here in Kenya. We are still fighting for our nation to
withstand the same kind of assault that every nation, including
America, is fighting. Takeover from the outside to fit the new world
order. As believers, this means we will be their first targets.
Here in Kenya, not one mosque was burned down, but hundreds of
churches were burned down, some with people in them, burned alive.
Jesus Christ is our peace, but the new world order of Globalism has
infiltrated the church and confused believers into thinking that they
can compromise and survive. It will not happen. I will send you a
newsletter we sent out documenting in a more cohesive manner
what I've tried to say in these few paragraphs.
Love, Celeste
Celeste and Loren Davis
About our Father's business!
Luke 2:49b
God bless you,,
J. Nowacki
DividedThigh
05-20-2008, 09:37 AM
No one is going to be able to overturn RvW in the current social climate. However it is the Republicans who got a ban on partial birth abortion. That would have never happened with a Democrat President.
To paint efforts as a failure because they don't get everything Christians want is incredibly naive and foolish.
Gains are incremental. Don't you think the babies that now will not have to endure the horror of partial birth abortion are worth it?
i think they are, and i will never stop fightin for there lives, dt
Rico, I honestly think the dems will win the whitehouse, as well as expand vastly their control of both houses of congress. and i think that will be pretty bad for us in the short term.
in the long term, I suspect it will be bad for America.
in the long term, it will give them the rope they need to hang themselves.
bond88
05-20-2008, 09:40 AM
:hmmmI think it is our god given right to vote, if not then we let those of the world make our decesions for us. I not as up on the book as I should be but some where it says that we should obey the lawss of GOD and MAN, Give unto GOD what is GOD'S and give unto man what is man's. I think that as people of the name we should vote. God help this country if we don't
DividedThigh
05-20-2008, 09:40 AM
Rico, I honestly think the dems will win the whitehouse, as well as expand vastly their control of both houses of congress. and i think that will be pretty bad for us in the short term.
in the long term, I suspect it will be bad for America.
in the long term, it will give them the rope they need to hang themselves.
dont say it ferd, but unfortunately i agree with your analysis, i just wish we were wrong, dt:blah:blah
Rico, I honestly think the dems will win the whitehouse, as well as expand vastly their control of both houses of congress. and i think that will be pretty bad for us in the short term.
in the long term, I suspect it will be bad for America.
in the long term, it will give them the rope they need to hang themselves.
Ditto for my analysis. The only weird thing that might happen is that if Obama's inexperience comes through and he stumbles badly enough McCain is enough of a Democrat that if enough unhappy Dems and independents voted for him he might squeak in. Of course having McCain in the Whitehouse is like having a Democrat there but at least a moderate one and not a lib one like Obama or Hillary.
Michael The Disciple
05-20-2008, 09:46 AM
Speaking as a conservative independent myself, I have to admit there’s probably a lot of truth in that.
The Repubs have given up on the abortion issue, and the gay marriage issue.
Like it or not, the writing is on the wall, and has been for a while now...
Realistically, abortion has become an irremovable part of American society now, as gay marriage will probably also be fairly soon. (Amnesty for illegal aliens is the next issue they’re in the process of giving up on too)
The Rethuglicans, however, know how to use the issue as red meat to get the base riled up every election cycle.
Yes I understand the Republicans are not strong enough. Thats why I said unless Mcain comes out STRONG about this I will not vote.
I would simply sit on the sidelines in this election if it were not for 2 things.
Iraq and the Supreme court.
everyone should take notice that yesterday a Supreme Court ruling came down.
It dealt with the subject of Child Pornography. the vote was 7-2. David Souter and Ruth Bader Ginsburg were the only dissenters. they want to protect the right of an individual to have computer generated images of child pornography. these two are exactly what we will get from Obama.
DividedThigh
05-20-2008, 09:51 AM
I would simply sit on the sidelines in this election if it were not for 2 things.
Iraq and the Supreme court.
everyone should take notice that yesterday a Supreme Court ruling came down.
It dealt with the subject of Child Pornography. the vote was 7-2. David Souter and Ruth Bader Ginsburg were the only dissenters. they want to protect the right of an individual to have computer generated images of child pornography. these two are exactly what we will get from Obama.
these people are just sick and that is exactly what we will get from a demoncat, lol,dt
TRFrance
05-20-2008, 09:54 AM
Yes I understand the Republicans are not strong enough. Thats why I said unless Mcain comes out STRONG about this I will not vote.
Understood.
However, I've seen nothing that indicates he's inclinded to do so.
He's trying harder to appleal to the center than the right.
And I say as Christians we have a responsibility to work for as moral a government and laws as possible and that means voting for the canidates and political parties that most support Christian values.
It is naive to think it doesnt matter. Just a few days ago USA Today had an article about the lasting effects of the many conservative judges Ronald Reagan appointed to the Federal courts. If not for these judges somewhat holding back the flood of judicial activism there is no telling how much worse the country would be today.
Burying ones head in the sand and wahing ones hands of politics may seem pious but it is in fact a dereliction of ones responsibilty to God and family.
There are real differences between canidates and parties and those real differences have great impact on moral issues like partial birth abortion, etc.
CC1, if you can provide some scriptural backing for this notion that getting out of the political scene is a "dereliction of one's responsibility to God and family" then I would most certainly be willing to read them.
Understood.
However, I've seen nothing that indicates he's inclinded to do so.
He's trying harder to appleal to the center than the right.
Yup. McCain knows that conservative Republicans pretty much despise him. He hopes to build a winning coalition by holding on to enough of the Republican base so that when he adds a majority of independents and disgruntled Democrats he can win.
It is a longshot but Obama's recent drubbing in blue collar states show a big vulnerability on his part. For him to win an electoral majority he is going to have to do it differently than recent strategies.
Obama can pull all of the elite liberal vote from the urban North East and CA but will still lose if he can't get a majority in many more conservative states.
The unknown question is can he pull enough new voters into the system who are excited about the first Black Presidential nominee for President to offset those with concerns about his lack of experience and his radical connections (not to mention prejudice people who won't vote for him based on his skin color).
CC1, if you can provide some scriptural backing for this notion that getting out of the political scene is a "dereliction of one's responsibility to God and family" then I would most certainly be willing to read them.
Christian duty in the sense of common sense measures to try and provide as moral an enviroment as possible for ones family to grow up in.
Christian duty in the sense we are to do what is right and protecting the unborn and opposing murder are right. Supporting a party or canidate who opposes partial birth abortion vs those who don't is a real world application of living out God's morality.
I would simply sit on the sidelines in this election if it were not for 2 things.
Iraq and the Supreme court.
everyone should take notice that yesterday a Supreme Court ruling came down.
It dealt with the subject of Child Pornography. the vote was 7-2. David Souter and Ruth Bader Ginsburg were the only dissenters. they want to protect the right of an individual to have computer generated images of child pornography. these two are exactly what we will get from Obama.
This is kind of my point, Ferd. This kind of stuff is going to happen no matter who is in office. I know that the President is who does the nominating, but having a completely conservative panel of judges isn't going to change the fact that this world is going to get worse and worse. When I read my Bible, I don't see a command to go out and change or dominate the world. I see a command to go out and save people from the world. It's almost as if we're bent on building an earthly kingdom for Jesus, when His kingdom is a spiritual one not governed by politics, judges, or earthly laws.
Christian duty in the sense of common sense measures to try and provide as moral an enviroment as possible for ones family to grow up in.
Christian duty in the sense we are to do what is right and protecting the unborn and opposing murder are right. Supporting a party or canidate who opposes partial birth abortion vs those who don't is a real world application of living out God's morality.
Ok. So you have none. Glad we got that cleared up. Supporting or not supporting a political party is not included as part of a Christian's obligation, from a scriptural standpoint.
DividedThigh
05-20-2008, 10:19 AM
hey rico, some people take romans 13:1-7 as an admonition to participate in govt, even an obligation, just a thought for you, dt
This is kind of my point, Ferd. This kind of stuff is going to happen no matter who is in office. I know that the President is who does the nominating, but having a completely conservative panel of judges isn't going to change the fact that this world is going to get worse and worse. When I read my Bible, I don't see a command to go out and change or dominate the world. I see a command to go out and save people from the world. It's almost as if we're bent on building an earthly kingdom for Jesus, when His kingdom is a spiritual one not governed by politics, judges, or earthly laws.
Rico, there is a thread within christianity that believes we should do what ever we can to hasten the coming of the Lord. they would say, vote for the worst candidate and seek to see things get worse.
but i cant see that. Nor can I see doing nothing as a good course.
my bible tells me to do what is right. to always do what is just.
I realize that we cannot stop the progression of time, but we are none the less required to do what we believe is right.
where politics are concerned, doing what ever we can to stop abortion falls in that catagory. maybe Mccain will be no different than Obama, but there is a chance he will.
put 2 more conservitives on the court and Roe can be overturned.
if Obama is elected we will pull out of Iraq. and that country will devolve into chaos and it will be our fault. that is doing wrong. I cannot do wrong.
chosenbyone
05-20-2008, 10:25 AM
McCain will be his own biggest obstacle to winning this Presidential race.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=GEtZlR3zp4c
Rico, there is a thread within christianity that believes we should do what ever we can to hasten the coming of the Lord. they would say, vote for the worst candidate and seek to see things get worse.
but i cant see that. Nor can I see doing nothing as a good course.
my bible tells me to do what is right. to always do what is just.
I realize that we cannot stop the progression of time, but we are none the less required to do what we believe is right.
where politics are concerned, doing what ever we can to stop abortion falls in that catagory. maybe Mccain will be no different than Obama, but there is a chance he will.
put 2 more conservitives on the court and Roe can be overturned.
if Obama is elected we will pull out of Iraq. and that country will devolve into chaos and it will be our fault. that is doing wrong. I cannot do wrong.
Overturning Roe is not going to stop abortions from happening, Ferd.
McCain will be his own biggest obstacle to winning this Presidential race.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=GEtZlR3zp4c
I didn't catch all of it, but I caught part of a news story yesterday that was talking about how many people in McCain's party who have been fired because it came to light they either had been or were lobbyists with connections to questionable countries. I wish I could find that story and post it.
That video you posted is so true. McCain doesn't seem to know from one day to the next what he says, what he knows, who our enemies are, etc.
DividedThigh
05-20-2008, 10:38 AM
i dont beleive that anyone ever said overturning roe, which was a bad decision even said by democrats, would stop abortion, but it would put its control and fate back in the hands of the states where it belongs, and take the shadow of 40 million innocents slain away from our country, my opinion, dt
Overturning Roe is not going to stop abortions from happening, Ferd.
No but as DT said, it will force the subject back to the states.
DividedThigh
05-20-2008, 10:42 AM
as far as the montage of mccain gaffs, they have one of those for hillary, and even obama, have you heard him talk without a teleprompter, not even coherent, good night, we all make mistakes, dt
At least McCain has not suggested JFKs really dumb move of meeting with the russians was a smart thing.
there are gaffs, and then there are gaffs...
TRFrance
05-20-2008, 11:04 AM
Well, I'm just glad I'm an independent.
Neither party is truly serving the American people's best interests.
I'm neither a Dumbocrat nor a Rethuglican.
DividedThigh
05-20-2008, 11:04 AM
ever heard of the democrat powerhouse ted kennedy, he speaks completely illiterately sometimes, good night, dt
ever heard of the democrat powerhouse ted kennedy, he speaks completely illiterately sometimes, good night, dt
Yes i have heard of Red Ted. would it be unkind to tell you I was saddned to hear of his survival this past weekend?
Well, I'm just glad I'm an independent.
Neither party is truly serving the American people's best interests.
I'm neither a Dumbocrat nor a Rethuglican.
currently the republicans have abandoned the things that got them our support.
they need to return to the path of righteousness.... hee hee...
Both parties are corrupt and controlled by special interests.
DividedThigh
05-20-2008, 11:10 AM
Yes i have heard of Red Ted. would it be unkind to tell you I was saddned to hear of his survival this past weekend?
that is funny, i am still in mourning, lol:boxing
You will all be glad to know that Senator Kennedy has been diagnosed with a malignant brain tumor. Happy now?
You will all be glad to know that Senator Kennedy has been diagnosed with a malignant brain tumor. Happy now?
i was kidding before. I dont wish that on anyone.
DividedThigh
05-20-2008, 11:40 AM
not really happy when anyone suffers, dt
Ok. So you have none. Glad we got that cleared up. Supporting or not supporting a political party is not included as part of a Christian's obligation, from a scriptural standpoint.
I don't expect to have a ratoinal conversation with someone whose logic causes them to not celebrate Christmas. That is no slam, just a fact.
If you don't think the things I outlined are not part of the repsponsibility of being a Christian just because there is not a scripture saying " support politicians that oppose partial birth abortion" or " support politicans and political parties that believe in not legislating from the bench immorality" then I don't believe we have enough common ground to continue the dialogue.
Apparently applying principles to specific situations is a problem for you.
I don't expect to have a ratoinal conversation with someone whose logic causes them to not celebrate Christmas. That is no slam, just a fact.
If you don't think the things I outlined are not part of the repsponsibility of being a Christian just because there is not a scripture saying " support politicians that oppose partial birth abortion" or " support politicans and political parties that believe in not legislating from the bench immorality" then I don't believe we have enough common ground to continue the dialogue.
Apparently applying principles to specific situations is a problem for you.
CC1, if you want to make this a contest of personal insults we can. Just say the word and we can take it to pm.
CC1, if you want to make this a contest of personal insults we can. Just say the word and we can take it to pm.
I have no desire to PM you or continue a pointless discussion here with you so lets just drop it and we can converse on this thread with other posters.
I have no desire to PM you or continue a pointless discussion here with you so lets just drop it and we can converse on this thread with other posters.
Well, I can tell you that I am sick of you insulting me over my beliefs on Christmas. There's plenty you believe in that I consider very wishy washy and bland, but I don't find ways of throwing those things in your face. I can't help it that you have nothing other than your opinion to back up this notion about dereliction of supposed duty to God and family, but that doesn't give you the right to throw unrelated issues in my face.
chosenbyone
05-20-2008, 01:32 PM
I have no desire to PM you or continue a pointless discussion here with you so lets just drop it and we can converse on this thread with other posters.
That's it, CC1, take the high road! :killinme
That's it, CC1, take the high road! :killinme
Some high road. He takes a cheap shot and then tries to hide behind wanting to have a rational conversation. If he wanted to have a rational conversation he should have answered my question instead of insulting me.
DividedThigh
05-20-2008, 01:36 PM
boys be nice now, what were we talking about here, oh yeah, the fact that if the repubs dont do something they are going to get blasted this year, dt
chosenbyone
05-20-2008, 01:37 PM
as far as the montage of mccain gaffs, they have one of those for hillary, and even obama, have you heard him talk without a teleprompter, not even coherent, good night, we all make mistakes, dt
That's very true, DT! I could only imagine how it must feel to be constantly in the spotlight and always having to be on! There leaves little doubt why I never became a politician...tough job!
BTW, I don't limit my delight in watching only McCain bloopers, there are whole slew of politicians that I get a kick from watching their gaffs!
boys be nice now, what were we talking about here, oh yeah, the fact that if the repubs dont do something they are going to get blasted this year, dt
Have you checked out what the Libertarian party believes?
chosenbyone
05-20-2008, 01:41 PM
Some high road. He takes a cheap shot and then tries to hide behind wanting to have a rational conversation. If he wanted to have a rational conversation he should have answered my question instead of insulting me.
I know, that's what makes it funny. (hint,hint)
That's it, CC1, take the high road! :killinme
LOL!!! I am not sure what part of my post about not wanting further dialogue is so hard to understand.
DividedThigh
05-20-2008, 01:46 PM
That's very true, DT! I could only imagine how it must feel to be constantly in the spotlight and always having to be on! There leaves little doubt why I never became a politician...tough job!
BTW, I don't limit my delight in watching only McCain bloopers, there are whole slew of politicians that I get a kick from watching their gaffs!
i do that too, they are all funny, me no politician either, too brutally honest, lol,dt
DividedThigh
05-20-2008, 01:47 PM
Have you checked out what the Libertarian party believes?
bro i am sure a lot of my beliefs are libertarian, but i am fiscally a reagan conservative, so no libs for me, sounds bad even in my mouth, lol,dt:happydance
bro i am sure a lot of my beliefs are libertarian, but i am fiscally a reagan conservative, so no libs for me, sounds bad even in my mouth, lol,dt:happydance
Um, isn't Reagan the president famous for deficit spending? If so, that means you are in favor of spending more than you make!! :D
chosenbyone
05-20-2008, 01:52 PM
LOL!!! I am not sure what part of my post about not wanting further dialogue is so hard to understand.
CC1, I knew you couldn't keep from posting on this thread.
As fun as it is to read you get so wound up at times, perhaps you should come to the full realization that discussing politics isn't exactly a calming subject for you to engage someone. If fact, you could add years to your life if you would just STOP! :lol
Um, isn't Reagan the president famous for deficit spending? If so, that means you are in favor of spending more than you make!! :D
sigh. why do I have to contend repeatedly with mythical falsehoods?
Regan suffered from a democrat controlled congress. those idiots would not curb spending.
Reagan's economic policy cut taxes which increased revenue by huge amounts.
CONGRESS CONTROLS SPENDING. (which is why the current crop of republicans are about to get tossed out of congress.)
TRFrance
05-20-2008, 01:54 PM
You will all be glad to know that Senator Kennedy has been diagnosed with a malignant brain tumor. Happy now?
Not cool, Rico.
Nobody here would be happy about that.
sigh. why do I have to contend repeatedly with mythical falsehoods?
Regan suffered from a democrat controlled congress. those idiots would not curb spending.
Reagan's economic policy cut taxes which increased revenue by huge amounts.
CONGRESS CONTROLS SPENDING. (which is why the current crop of republicans are about to get tossed out of congress.)
Yeah, but isn't it the President who submits the budgets to Congress for approval? It's the fault of Congress for passing the budgets the President sends to them?
Not cool, Rico.
Nobody here would be happy about that.
That was my way of letting people know their timing about joking around about Senator Kennedy's death wasn't a good idea. I think I got my point across, yes?
Yeah, but isn't is the President who submits the budgets to Congress for approval? It's the fault of Congress for passing the budgets the President sends to them?
Rico Presidential submission of budget is kind of a misnomer.
Yes the current tradition is for Presidents to submit budgets. However, budgets do not get an up or down vote. they get re-worked....bigtime.
Presidents generally submit guidelines that they like and congress then goes about the business of fleshing it out as they see fit.
BUT at the same time, a president can submit a budget with 50% tax reduction and congress and pass/send him a budget with a 99% tax increase.
spending is the same. they have to work together to some degree, because a president can veto a budget if he wants to.
In the case of Reagan, what he asked for was far from what he got on spending.... but it was the compromise he was forced to accept to get dems to agree with tax cutting and standing up to the USSR.
DividedThigh
05-20-2008, 02:00 PM
dont kid yourself rico, i dont beleive that , neither do any of mine, we are conservative, dt
DividedThigh
05-20-2008, 02:01 PM
isnt that info in civics 101, oh i must have missed that, lol, dt
Not cool, Rico.
Nobody here would be happy about that.
in fairness to Rico, he was responding to a crass comment I made.
i was kidding of course....
isnt that info in civics 101, oh i must have missed that, lol, dt
Dude, sometimes I think I am out here by myself....
I still remember the line "The House of Representatives control the purse strings"
Doesnt anyone else remember that???
Both parties are a mess.
yea, dems are acting like dems and republicans are acting like dems..
it is a sad and tragic world we live in.
Rico Presidential submission of budget is kind of a misnomer.
Yes the current tradition is for Presidents to submit budgets. However, budgets do not get an up or down vote. they get re-worked....bigtime.
Presidents generally submit guidelines that they like and congress then goes about the business of fleshing it out as they see fit.
BUT at the same time, a president can submit a budget with 50% tax reduction and congress and pass/send him a budget with a 99% tax increase.
spending is the same. they have to work together to some degree, because a president can veto a budget if he wants to.
In the case of Reagan, what he asked for was far from what he got on spending.... but it was the compromise he was forced to accept to get dems to agree with tax cutting and standing up to the USSR.
I hear what you are saying, Ferd, but it's also the President who signs off on whatever Congress sends back to him. That's why presidents get the credit or take the blame for surpluses or deficits.
DividedThigh
05-20-2008, 02:10 PM
Dude, sometimes I think I am out here by myself....
I still remember the line "The House of Representatives control the purse strings"
Doesnt anyone else remember that???
yes, the constitution is set up that way, so the peoples voice should be the loudest, dt
DividedThigh
05-20-2008, 02:11 PM
Dude, sometimes I think I am out here by myself....
I still remember the line "The House of Representatives control the purse strings"
Doesnt anyone else remember that???
you are never alone dude, never alone, dt
I hear what you are saying, Ferd, but it's also the President who signs off on whatever Congress sends back to him. That's why presidents get the credit or take the blame for surpluses or deficits.
Presidents get blame and credit for a lot of stuff because Americans are ignorant of basic civics. Evidently America’s high school civics teachers are rejects who couldn’t teach anything else but can’t be fired for incompetence because the teachers unions are too strong.
The fact is, when a president veto’s a budget, it tends to shut down the government. Additionally budgets tend to be functions of compromise where a president seeks the most important aspects of his agenda and allows other things to slip by.
Rico, it doesn’t matter how you cut this, bottom line is the purse strings of the USA are controlled by the House of Representatives. THIS is the design of the framers. THIS is where accountability should always remain as it relates to spending.
But we Americans are ignorant sheep bleating our latest need followed by "why aint the gubbermint taking care of me???"
Presidents get blame and credit for a lot of stuff because Americans are ignorant of basic civics. Evidently America’s high school civics teachers are rejects who couldn’t teach anything else but can’t be fired for incompetence because the teachers unions are too strong.
The fact is, when a president veto’s a budget, it tends to shut down the government. Additionally budgets tend to be functions of compromise where a president seeks the most important aspects of his agenda and allows other things to slip by.
Rico, it doesn’t matter how you cut this, bottom line is the purse strings of the USA are controlled by the House of Representatives. THIS is the design of the framers. THIS is where accountability should always remain as it relates to spending.
But we Americans are ignorant sheep bleating our latest need followed by "why aint the gubbermint taking care of me???"
Let's not mix issues, Ferd. The "gubbermint (sounds like a new flavor of Wrigleys gum :D) taking care of me" is another issue altogether.
The point I am making is that, since it's the President who sends the budget to Congress and it's the President who signs off on whatever Congress sends back to him, then it's only natural for the President to get the credit or take the blame for what we end up with. I know that Congress revises, adds to, takes away from, etc., what he sends to them, but the bottom line is that it's him who signs it into law.
Let's not mix issues, Ferd. The "gubbermint (sounds like a new flavor of Wrigleys gum :D) taking care of me" is another issue altogether.
The point I am making is that, since it's the President who sends the budget to Congress and it's the President who signs off on whatever Congress sends back to him, then it's only natural for the President to get the credit or take the blame for what we end up with. I know that Congress revises, adds to, takes away from, etc., what he sends to them, but the bottom line is that it's him who signs it into law.
hey bro, you are making the argument that the vast majority of Americans attempt to make.
I aint mad at ya! but you need to take your argument to the constitution.
The president has a great deal of power in dealing with the collection of taxes and what those taxes are going to be. but when it comes to spending, the veto pen can do only so much dammage.
Ronald Reagan had to contend with massive spending by a democrat congress, that would only give him what he wanted on tax policy at the expense of their spending habits. he also had to deal with congress (and pass their spending bills ) to get them to agree with his efforts in curbing the USSR.
GWB on the other hand, had a republican congress that was bent on spending and Bush didnt want to alienate his allies in congress when he needed them on the war issues..... complicated yes, but bottom line, it dont matter what you or anyone else decides they want to think. Spending is a function of the House of Representatives. (not even the Senate has the power the HoR has when it comes to spending.)
rgcraig
05-20-2008, 02:38 PM
Not to bring up old arguments, but since the Bible is the roadmap to everything we do, I can almost imagine there's some scripture in there that would support us being good citizens and supporting what is right.
Bible Gateway has a lot of links to political topics.
ALLIANCES » POLITICAL
AMNESTY » For political offenses
CORRUPTION » POLITICAL
ECONOMY » POLITICAL
INFLUENCE » POLITICAL
USURPATION » OF POLITICAL FUNCTIONS
ECONOMICS » POLITICAL (Genesis 41:33-57)
INFLUENCE » POLITICAL (1 Kings 2:13-18; 2 Kings 4:12,13; Nehemiah 6:17-19; Proverbs 19:6;)
LIBERTY » Political (Judges 17:6;21:25; Acts 22:28)
LOBBYING » See INFLUENCE, POLITICAL
ISRAEL » UNDER THE KINGS BEFORE THE SEPARATION INTO TWO KIN » The conflict between the two political factions (2 Samuel 2:12-32;3:1)
POLITICS » WOMEN IN » See INFLUENCE, POLITICAL
http://www.biblegateway.com/topical/topical_searchresults.php?resultsapp=25&source=1&search=political&searchtype=all
tstew
05-20-2008, 02:40 PM
if mccain has a chance at all he will have to shift hard right to get the base motivated , just dont know if he has it in him, we will see, dt
Dt...there's the rub...if Mccain does verbalize that it will be verbalization only, and only for the reason you stated. That has been the m.o. of the party for a generation now. It will not necessarily be a reflection of what he truly believes or who he is and it will certainly not affect those issues in a real way. I'm just tired of the semantics.
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