Who's Your Next President?

[1Corinth2v4]

I'm still undecided, but of these two will receive my vote!






http://morningcoffee.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/clinton-obama-tradeing-jabs.jpg

[DividedThigh]

neither of those, dt

[1Corinth2v4]

neither of those, dt

You're a McCain fan ehh.....?

[Ferd]

I will only vote for McCain.

but to suggest i am a McCain fan would be a stretch.

i can assure you of one thing. I will NOT be voting for the demon rat.

[1Corinth2v4]

I will only vote for McCain.

but to suggest i am a McCain fan would be a stretch.

i can assure you of one thing. I will NOT be voting for the demon rat.

You forgot to vote in the poll, Ferd.
Who's the demon rat?

[DividedThigh]

I will only vote for McCain.

but to suggest i am a McCain fan would be a stretch.

i can assure you of one thing. I will NOT be voting for the demon rat.

no need for me to become verbose, ferd said it, ditto, dt

[Praxeas]

I'm still undecided, but of these two will receive my vote!






http://morningcoffee.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/clinton-obama-tradeing-jabs.jpg
Why will you be voting for one of those two?

[JTULLOCK]

Barak H. Obama...the next President of the United States. The title of the thread was 'Who's your next President?' not who are you voting for. I am not going to vote. But I think that BHO is the next Prez.

[1Corinth2v4]

Barak H. Obama...the next President of the United States. The title of the thread was 'Who's your next President?' not who are you voting for. I am not going to vote. But I think that BHO is the next Prez.


Who's your next president infers to voting. The title is quite appropriate.

[Ferd]

You forgot to vote in the poll, Ferd.
Who's the demon rat?

democrat=demon rat

I did not forget to vote. i just didnt vote.

I am still working up the currage to vote for McCain. I aint quite there yet!

[1Corinth2v4]

Why will you be voting for one of those two?

Well, there's various issues.

[DividedThigh]

anybody got a wish list, lol,dt

[1Corinth2v4]

democrat=demon rat

I did not forget to vote. i just didnt vote.

I am still working up the currage to vote for McCain. I aint quite there yet!

LOL

[Praxeas]

Well, there's various issues.
Why will you be voting for one of those two?

[1Corinth2v4]

Why will you be voting for one of those two?

some examples.....health-care.......war in Iraq......taxes.....etc...

[JTULLOCK]

Who's your next president infers to voting. The title is quit appropriate.

ummm ok. I was not trying to debate whether the title was appropriate. I was stating who 'I' think will win. Not especially who I would vote for. I think that all the hopefuls are hopeless, none of them are going to do any good. IMO.

[Rhoni]

I am going to vote for McCain but I truly do not think OBAMA is right for the office. As a matter of fact...it scares me.

[Rico]

some examples.....health-care.......war in Iraq......taxes.....etc...

You are in favor of the largest tax increase in American history?

[Praxeas]

some examples.....health-care.......war in Iraq......taxes.....etc...
I see....you think democrats are going to lower taxes for you or raise them?

If Clinton is elected do you think she will pull the troops out?

BTW how about abortion?

[1Corinth2v4]

I see....you think democrats are going to lower taxes for you or raise them?

If Clinton is elected do you think she will pull the troops out?

BTW how about abortion?


Praxeas,

I understand you're an administrator? I'll gladly discuss these issues, but I request liberty to speak without retaliation of banning by admins or posters because of them disagreeing with my opinions.

[Ferd]

some examples.....health-care.......war in Iraq......taxes.....etc...

I am for healthcare (the market driven kind NOT governtment mandated)
i am for the US staying the course in iraq
i am for lower taxes

dont see me voting for the idiot that thinks JFK did a good thing in talking to the russians before the cuban missile crisis.

and hillary wont be there.

[Praxeas]

Praxeas,

I understand you're an administrator? I'll gladly discuss these issues, but I request liberty to speak without retaliation of banning by admins or posters because because they might disagree with my opinions.
Disagreeing with opinions is usually not a problem here. The problem is HOW some opinions are expressed.

[COOPER]

The choices in this years election make me queasy.


Our country will get very ill because of Obama.

[1Corinth2v4]

Disagreeing with opinions is usually not a problem here. The problem is HOW some opinions are expressed.

Shall we discuss abortion first?

[Neck]

I'll defer my comments until 2012.

[Rico]

Shall we discuss abortion first?

Abortion is murder. If a woman wants to kill her unborn child that's her choice. Next.

[1Corinth2v4]

Abortion is murder. If a woman wants to kill her unborn child that's her choice. Next.

Your comment in far from discussion, and falls under the category of dictatorship.

Shall we discuss abortion or would you rather slam your gavel?

[mizpeh]

I'm still undecided, but of these two will receive my vote!






http://morningcoffee.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/clinton-obama-tradeing-jabs.jpg

I'll vote for Clinton. If she doesn't get nominated then I'll vote against Obama.

[mizpeh]

I am going to vote for McCain but I truly do not think OBAMA is right for the office. As a matter of fact...it scares me.

He scares me too!

[1Corinth2v4]

He scares me too!

Why?

[DividedThigh]

abortion is murder, no discussion, refer to the bible, lol,dt

[Rico]

abortion is murder, no discussion, refer to the bible, lol,dt

Dictator!!! :D

[DividedThigh]

Dictator!!! :D

yesss, is there a problem, lol,dt

[mizpeh]

Why?

Because in Middle East affairs I don't think he will ever side with Israel.

[1Corinth2v4]

abortion is murder, no discussion, refer to the bible, lol,dt


Divided Thigh,


Let pretend you had a sister which was raped, and later found it she's pregnant by this gross act.

Should she have it or abort it?

[DividedThigh]

i dont play games friend, i have 5 sisters, if that ever happens i will let you know, dt oh and by the way abortion is murder, yep it is

[1Corinth2v4]

i dont play games friend, i have 5 sisters, if that ever happens i will let you know, dt oh and by the way abortion is murder, yep it is

That's what I thought......your non-response answered the question.

[DividedThigh]

assumption is the mother of all foul ups, dude, lol,dt

[1Corinth2v4]

dt oh and by the way abortion is murder, yep it is

Isn't it murder when we step on a ant or snail, run over a squirrel or possum, put a dog or cat to sleep? What about killing a rat with a rat trap? What about hunting?


Isn't that murder, or are those life forms worthless piece of trash?

[Sister Alvear]

I don't know who the next president will be but I do know that King Jesus will one day rule and reign. I look forward to that day...yeah I know some think He is doing that now...but I don't think so...

[DividedThigh]

i believe it is perfectly humane to kill an animal before i eat it, lol,dt

[mizpeh]

Isn't it murder when we step on a ant or snail, run over a squirrel or possum, put a dog or cat to sleep? What about killing a rat with a rat trap? What about hunting?


Isn't that murder, or are those life forms worthless piece of trash?

You forgot to mention roaches! Shouldn't roaches have the right to live? :tic

[Sister Alvear]

A gig difference between man and animals...man has a living soul.

[DividedThigh]

You forgot to mention roaches! Shouldn't roaches have the right to live? :tic

no, not in my house, lol,dt

[Rico]

Isn't it murder when we step on a ant or snail, run over a squirrel or possum, put a dog or cat to sleep? What about killing a rat with a rat trap? What about hunting?


Isn't that murder, or are those life forms worthless piece of trash?

You are putting ant and squirrels on the same level as humans? You need to go back and read your Bible. Humans were created in His image, not the animals.

[DividedThigh]

A gig difference between man and animals...man has a living soul.

so true sis, some people miss that little fact, dt

[1Corinth2v4]

You forgot to mention roaches! Shouldn't roaches have the right to live? :tic

They sure should.
Also, if your clean person, you don't have to worry about roaches! :bliss

[Sister Alvear]

how about inviting me over to eat deer meat...

[DividedThigh]

how about inviting me over to eat deer meat...

any time sis, i have a freezer full, thanks to my sharp eye and steady trigger finger, lol,dt

[Sister Alvear]

I even like rabbit and squirrel...

[Sister Alvear]

any time sis, i have a freezer full, thanks to my sharp eye and steady trigger finger, lol,dt


just pm that address to me ...who knows where I will be next,,,

[Sister Alvear]

I don't know if man was really made to eat meat but I sure love it...

[DividedThigh]

just pm that address to me ...who knows where I will be next,,,

ok sis, just let me know if you ever travel north of illinois, i will be there for you with great venison, dt

[Sister Alvear]

my kids think I have an iron stomach...can eat about anything...as long as I have my hot peppers..

[1Corinth2v4]

A gig difference between man and animals...man has a living soul.

Murder is to deprive of life.

Murder is murder.

[Sister Alvear]

ok sis, just let me know if you ever travel north of illinois, i will be there for you with great venison, dt

Are you close to peoria?

[Sister Alvear]

Murder is to deprive of life.

Murder is murder.

yeah, I know but i wouldn't want to eat my Meat alive...

[DividedThigh]

Are you close to peoria?

north sis, like 4 and half hours, you would be welcome to eat with us anytime, dt

[DividedThigh]

hey 1corinthinan, you should go on peta's web site, they agree with you, i think people eating tasty animals is a gift from god, dt

[Sister Alvear]

I even eat Armadillo when the people bring it to me...not something I perfere...however I am a missionary...

[Sister Alvear]

north sis, like 4 and half hours, you would be welcome to eat with us anytime, dt

Ok..just looked on the map up close to michigan? I am just imaging some churches and a route to come your way...I am supposed to be home in Aug if things work out...maybe Wisconsin...

[DividedThigh]

Ok..just looked on the map up close to michigan? I am just imaging some churches and a route to come your way...I am supposed to be home in Aug if things work out...

well you just give me some warning, and you will be feasting, potatoes and gravy and rice to boot, lol,dt

[Sister Alvear]

Well, we have wandered off from the president question however our grandbaby had surgery in Peoria...We were treated so nice at that hospital.

[mizpeh]

Murder is to deprive of life.

Murder is murder.

You must be a vegetarian. :)

[Sister Alvear]

well you just give me some warning, and you will be feasting, potatoes and gravy and rice to boot, lol,dt


sounds good to me...

[DividedThigh]

You must be a vegetarian. :)

must be, this thread got jacked i guess, lol,dt:boxing

[Ferd]

Isn't it murder when we step on a ant or snail, run over a squirrel or possum, put a dog or cat to sleep? What about killing a rat with a rat trap? What about hunting?


Isn't that murder, or are those life forms worthless piece of trash?
Oh good grief.

If that is the case, then God is an accomplice to murder. He told Peter "kill and eat."
Acts 11:7:"I also heard a voice saying to me, 'Get up, Peter; kill and eat.'


Your above quote holds within it the spirit of Anti-Christ!

1 Timothy 4
1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

[DividedThigh]

Oh good grief.

If that is the case, then God is an accomplice to murder. He told Peter "kill and eat."
Acts 11:7:"I also heard a voice saying to me, 'Get up, Peter; kill and eat.'


Your above quote holds within it the spirit of Anti-Christ!

1 Timothy 4
1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

oh my ferd, you are gonna wake them up again, lol, dt

[Ferd]

oh my ferd, you are gonna wake them up again, lol, dt

sorry. just had to toss a little scripture in the room. it make great rat poison.

[DividedThigh]

:happydance:drama:toofunny:boxingsorry. just had to toss a little scripture in the room. it make great rat poison.

[1Corinth2v4]

Oh good grief.

If that is the case, then God is an accomplice to murder. He told Peter "kill and eat."
Acts 11:7:"I also heard a voice saying to me, 'Get up, Peter; kill and eat.'


Your above quote holds within it the spirit of Anti-Christ!

1 Timothy 4
1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.


Ferd,


Please....!!

Leave 1 Timothy 4:1-3 for onesteppers!

A murderer is a criminal who commits homicide. It's within God's bounds/limitations to take whomever's life He wishes, by Himself, or by direct commandment through a 3rd party.


Don't let your lack of understanding condemn me. I simply said all life is precious. Regardless, with an understanding we dominate every species, all life is precious.


Abortion should only be optional to females that have been raped, and become pregnant from this act.


Also, I never claimed to abstain from meats, so get over it.

[DividedThigh]

hey corinthain dude, you are the one that brought up animals and called it murder to kill them, you need to get over it, dt

[DividedThigh]

Divided~~~~~~shew~~~~

you make me laugh, thanks, dt:bliss

[1Corinth2v4]

hey corinthain dude, you are the one that brought up animals and called it murder to kill them, you need to get over it, dt

Divided, what's the process called when a man/women takes the life of an animal?

[bkstokes]

I know that I am probably going to get a lot of bashing after posting this, but here goes. I am going to pray about who I should vote for most definately. So the LORD could change my mind. Nevertheless if I were casting my vote today, I think I would vote against the Republicans. As I heard on NPR yesterday, 30 yrs ago the average CEO made 20 times what the average worker of the company made. Today the average CEO makes 400 times what the average worker makes.

Say what you want but the Republican party is favoring the upper class and by doing so they are diminishing the middle class to become more like the working class.

People if the we lose our middle class we will lose more and more of our democratic republic.

[BrotherEastman]

Divided, what's the process called when a man/women takes the life of an animal?
I don't know what he calls it, but I call it dinner.

[BrotherEastman]

Wow! According to the poll, McCain is our next president.

[Grasshopper]

Divided, what's the process called when a man/women takes the life of an animal?

Wickedness?

Proverbs 12:10
A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.

[Grasshopper]

I know that I am probably going to get a lot of bashing after posting this, but here goes. I am going to pray about who I should vote for most definately. So the LORD could change my mind. Nevertheless if I were casting my vote today, I think I would vote against the Republicans. As I heard on NPR yesterday, 30 yrs ago the average CEO made 20 times what the average worker of the company made. Today the average CEO makes 400 times what the average worker makes.

Say what you want but the Republican party is favoring the upper class and by doing so they are diminishing the middle class to become more like the working class.

People if the we lose our middle class we will lose more and more of our democratic republic.

The average rank and file Republicans are good people. But corporate powers have hijacked the party leadership.

[Ferd]

Ferd,


Please....!!

Leave 1 Timothy 4:1-3 for onesteppers!

A murderer is a criminal who commits homicide. It's within God's bounds/limitations to take whomever's life He wishes, by Himself, or by direct commandment through a 3rd party.


Don't let your lack of understanding condemn me. I simply said all life is precious. Regardless, with an understanding we dominate every species, all life is precious.


Abortion should only be optional to females that have been raped, and become pregnant from this act.


Also, I never claimed to abstain from meats, so get over it.

Bro, I dont want to be overly contentious with ya or nuthen but well... no ya didnt....

here is your exact quote:
Isn't it murder when we step on a ant or snail, run over a squirrel or possum, put a dog or cat to sleep? What about killing a rat with a rat trap? What about hunting?
Isn't that murder, or are those life forms worthless piece of trash?


Oh and bully for you that you are against abortion. its nice to be against abortion. I recomend it.

never the less, I stand by my statement.

[Ferd]

The average rank and file Republicans are good people. But corporate powers have hijacked the party leadership.

huh. I kind of figured democrats had hijacked the party leadershipl. example: John McCain.

[Ferd]

Divided, what's the process called when a man/women takes the life of an animal?

butchering?

[Grasshopper]

huh. I kind of figured democrats had hijacked the party leadershipl. example: John McCain.

Maybe. lol

[Ferd]

I know that I am probably going to get a lot of bashing after posting this, but here goes. I am going to pray about who I should vote for most definately. So the LORD could change my mind. Nevertheless if I were casting my vote today, I think I would vote against the Republicans. As I heard on NPR yesterday, 30 yrs ago the average CEO made 20 times what the average worker of the company made. Today the average CEO makes 400 times what the average worker makes.

Say what you want but the Republican party is favoring the upper class and by doing so they are diminishing the middle class to become more like the working class.

People if the we lose our middle class we will lose more and more of our democratic republic.


hmmm. so the republican party passed what legislation that allows CEOs to make 400 times what the average worker makes?

I think that might be a good place to start a nice respectful conversation. (and I aint bashing you)

[Ferd]

Maybe. lol

Look how reasonable you can be!

[1Corinth2v4]

Bro, I dont want to be overly contentious with ya or nuthen but well... no ya didnt....

here is your exact quote:
Isn't it murder when we step on a ant or snail, run over a squirrel or possum, put a dog or cat to sleep? What about killing a rat with a rat trap? What about hunting?
Isn't that murder, or are those life forms worthless piece of trash?


Oh and bully for you that you are against abortion. its nice to be against abortion. I recomend it.

never the less, I stand by my statement.


Re-phrase your stance on abortion please.

When one takes the life of any life-form, that is murder. At least, that's what murder signifies here on Earth.

[1Corinth2v4]

butchering?
In other words, murder or kill. Thanks.:bliss

[Ferd]

Re-phrase your stance on abortion please.

When one takes the life of any life-form, that is murder. At least, that's what murder signifies here on Earth.

well. actually murder as defined by American law... and most nations law in general.... and the OT in particular, is the taking of innocent human life.

however, can we agree that what you said and what you said you said are somewhat different?

also I thought we were talking about killing animals? why the concern with the subject of abortion?

[Ferd]

In other words, murder or kill. Thanks.:bliss

killing yes. murder no. you cant murder an animal.

you can be cruel and wantonly kill animals. I agree with the bibile that is terrible.

but turning bully into hamburger is neither wanton killing nor murder.

it butchering and i am for it!

[Grasshopper]

I know solid conservatives that are prochoice because they don't believe the government's role is to essentially seize a pregnant woman's body and force her to give birth. They say that as disturbing as abortion might be the final decision should rest with the woman alone. Now, that doesn't make it moral or right in any given circumstance. But the notion from these conservatives I was reading about is that a prochoice approach is a necessary evil in a civil society. Women should be educated about abortion and advised against it but the choice is best left in her hands.

Don't know what any of y'all will think about that, but I thought I'd drop it here since we're discussing abortion, murder, and life ethics. Frankly...that's all the Republicans have going for them this election.

[Ferd]

Re-phrase your stance on abortion please.

When one takes the life of any life-form, that is murder. At least, that's what murder signifies here on Earth.

Now, my stance on abortion.... not that it relates in any way to this discussion... but.... at the point where the first blood cell exists (around day 21) there is absolutly no justifyable reason to kill the baby unless not doing so would cause the mother to die.

innocent life is to be protected. the bible says the life is in the blood. (this is my own view and my experience is that most people dont make this connection but this is what I got from studing scripture on the subject.)

the reason why I would make an expection of the life of the mother, is that at the point where the baby could cause the mothers death, the baby though innocent itself, is an instument of death. also generally speaking the baby would die as well.

I also think there is some argument to terminate a pregnancy where the baby is not viable. but this is slippery. some "not viable" babies would live for some period of time. others would be born with no brain and arent capable of survival in any form at all. so where is that line?

so there. thats my stance on abortion. its really really bad.

[Ferd]

I know solid conservatives that are prochoice because they don't believe the government's role is to essentially seize a pregnant woman's body and force her to give birth. They say that as disturbing as abortion might be the final decision should rest with the woman alone. Now, that doesn't make it moral or right in any given circumstance. But the notion from these conservatives I was reading about is that a prochoice approach is a necessary evil in a civil society. Women should be educated about abortion and advised against it but the choice is best left in her hands.

Don't know what any of y'all will think about that, but I thought I'd drop it here since we're discussing abortion, murder, and life ethics. Frankly...that's all the Republicans have going for them this election.


this is the classic liberatarian argument. (and has nothing to do with murdering chickens which I am for)

but my position is that the governments key function is to protect innocent life. nothing is more innocent than a baby. There is no such thing as a legal choice that terminates an innocent human life..... unlike chickens which may be innocent but taste pretty good once they have been terminated.

[MrsMcD]

I find it hard to believe anyone could vote for Obama after him trusting his life/salvation to Jeremiah Wright. Lord, help us all if he gets voted in.

[Ferd]

I find it hard to believe anyone could vote for Obama after him trusting his life/salvation to Jeremiah Wright. Lord, help us all if he gets voted in.

there is a song about that.

People are strange.

[1Corinth2v4]

it butchering and i am for it!

Butcher:
1 a: a person who slaughters animals or dresses their flesh b: a dealer in meat
2: one that kills ruthlessly or brutally


Thank you.....confession is good for the soul! :happydance

[BrotherEastman]

Butcher:
1 a: a person who slaughters animals or dresses their flesh b: a dealer in meat
2: one that kills ruthlessly or brutally


Thank you.....confession is good for the soul! :happydance
So, what does eating meat have to do with who we vote for?

[Ferd]

So, what does eating meat have to do with who we vote for?

i dont know that eating meat has to do with it, but suggesting that we not eat meat comes from the spirit of the anti-christ according to the bible.

[Ferd]

Butcher:
1 a: a person who slaughters animals or dresses their flesh b: a dealer in meat
2: one that kills ruthlessly or brutally


Thank you.....confession is good for the soul! :happydance

LOL! then let me clarify. I was speaking of dressing an animal for consumption. not killing humans.

[1Corinth2v4]

LOL! then let me clarify. I was speaking of dressing an animal for consumption. not killing humans.


Which is classified as butchering meaning one that ruthlessly or brutally kills and animal.


:drama KILLER:toofunny

[Rico]

I know solid conservatives that are prochoice because they don't believe the government's role is to essentially seize a pregnant woman's body and force her to give birth. They say that as disturbing as abortion might be the final decision should rest with the woman alone. Now, that doesn't make it moral or right in any given circumstance. But the notion from these conservatives I was reading about is that a prochoice approach is a necessary evil in a civil society. Women should be educated about abortion and advised against it but the choice is best left in her hands.

Don't know what any of y'all will think about that, but I thought I'd drop it here since we're discussing abortion, murder, and life ethics. Frankly...that's all the Republicans have going for them this election.

That about sums up my feelings on the subject.

[Ferd]

Which is classified as butchering meaning one that ruthlessly or brutally kills and animal.


:drama KILLER:toofunny

and your earlier post had the spirit of anti-chirst... I think that is worse.

[Rico]

Hey, 1C, when you take your car out on a hot summer day, do you repent as soon as you get home? You know, for murdering all those bugs with your car? If it's murder, as you claim, then that makes it a sin, which means you have to repent over it or it's the fires of Hell for you come judgement day.

[Monkeyman]

I find it hard to believe anyone could vote for Obama after him trusting his life/salvation to Jeremiah Wright. Lord, help us all if he gets voted in.You mean President Obama....well, I guess we should wait until January, although in November he will be President-elect.

[1Corinth2v4]

and your earlier post had the spirit of anti-chirst... I think that is worse.

Where Ferd?

[1Corinth2v4]

Hey, 1C, when you take your car out on a hot summer day, do you repent as soon as you get home? You know, for murdering all those bugs with your car? If it's murder, as you claim, then that makes it a sin, which means you have to repent over it or it's the fires of Hell for you come judgement day.

You mean my driver as I lay back and relax?

[Ferd]

Where Ferd?

we covered that my brother. i quoted you then gave you the scripture.


you were none too pleased.

seemed to think I was taking liberties. then you restated what you said in a way that wasnt nearly as strong as what you stated in the first place.

its all good.

i remain for the killing and consuming of animals. I dont however kick dogs. cats maybe but never dogs.

[Ferd]

yo ONE SEE, did you see my answer to your abortion question?

[Rico]

we covered that my brother. i quoted you then gave you the scripture.


you were none too pleased.

seemed to think I was taking liberties. then you restated what you said in a way that wasnt nearly as strong as what you stated in the first place.

its all good.

i remain for the killing and consuming of animals. I dont however kick dogs. cats maybe but never dogs.

Maybe it was his driver doing the posting.

[Ferd]

Isn't it murder when we step on a ant or snail, run over a squirrel or possum, put a dog or cat to sleep? What about killing a rat with a rat trap? What about hunting?


Isn't that murder, or are those life forms worthless piece of trash?

Oh good grief.

If that is the case, then God is an accomplice to murder. He told Peter "kill and eat."
Acts 11:7:"I also heard a voice saying to me, 'Get up, Peter; kill and eat.'


Your above quote holds within it the spirit of Anti-Christ!

1 Timothy 4
1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

here is OneSee's antichrist post and my reply.

[Monkeyman]

Another nut....

[Ferd]

Another nut....

... wonder if this nut is from the land of fruits and nuts?


I am FOR MEAT!

[Monkeyman]

... wonder if this nut is from the land of fruits and nuts?


I am FOR MEAT!I am for MEAT..........................with tortillas and salsa!

[Ferd]

I am for MEAT..........................with tortillas and salsa!

mmmmm tortillas and salsa. i am for those too.

in other news democrats are against tortillas as they have turned corn into gas. cant have tortillas without corn.

[Rico]

I am for MEAT..........................with tortillas and salsa!

Now yer talkin!

[Monkeyman]

mmmmm tortillas and salsa. i am for those too.

in other news democrats are against tortillas as they have turned corn into gas. cant have tortillas without corn.That might help switch the Latino vote to the GOP!!! Put that on a bumper sticker FERD.

[Rico]

mmmmm tortillas and salsa. i am for those too.

in other news democrats are against tortillas as they have turned corn into gas. cant have tortillas without corn.


Ain't you never heard of flour tortillas? What kinda cook are you anyway?:boxing

[Monkeyman]

Ain't you never heard of flour tortillas? What kinda cook are you anyway?:boxingFlour is cool but that isn't what my grandparents ate..it had to be COOOOOORN!!!

[Ferd]

I like them flour tor-till-ahs myself quite a bit. but thats cuz i am about as white as it gets.

now i know my brothers from the south prefer the corn tortillia and honestly while I like the flour ones a bit more, I am still FOR the Corn Tortillia!

[Rico]

Flour is cool but that isn't what my grandparents ate..it had to be COOOOOORN!!!

This is one of the differences between Mexicans and us Puerto Ricans. I grew up with the flour tortillas. In fact, my first time eating corn tortillas was at Taco Bell. To me, corn tortillas are like large Frito chips. They're good, but I can't get into eating them as tacos. My wife likes them with tacos though.

[Ferd]

This is one of the differences between Mexicans and us Puerto Ricans. I grew up with the flour tortillas. In fact, my first time eating corn tortillas was at Taco Bell. To me, corn tortillas are like large Frito chips. They're good, but I can't get into eating them as tacos. My wife likes them with tacos though.

dude, you cant beat a taco bell double decker supreme!

flour tortilla with beans spread on it, then wrap that around a hard shell corn tortilla filled with MEAT and the taco fixens.

dont forget the sour cream.... i prefer creama but you take what you can get!

[Rico]

dude, you cant beat a taco bell double decker supreme!

flour tortilla with beans spread on it, then wrap that around a hard shell corn tortilla filled with MEAT and the taco fixens.

dont forget the sour cream.... i prefer creama but you take what you can get!

I can't hardly eat Taco Bell food anymore Ferd. A few years ago I ate a burrito from Taco Bell that tasted kind of funny. Turns out they had just wiped the counter where they made the tacos with bleachwater. That little thing in the back of my throat swelled up and I had a very hard time breathing because of it. Every time I think about eating Taco Bell food I think about what happened and start to get sick to my stomach.

[Ferd]

I can't hardly eat Taco Bell food anymore Ferd. A few years ago I ate a burrito from Taco Bell that tasted kind of funny. Turns out they had just wiped the counter where they made the tacos with bleachwater. That little thing in the back of my throat swelled up and I had a very hard time breathing because of it. Every time I think about eating Taco Bell food I think about what happened and start to get sick to my stomach.

well, next time you make em at home try it. yum~!

[Grasshopper]

this is the classic liberatarian argument. (and has nothing to do with murdering chickens which I am for)

but my position is that the governments key function is to protect innocent life. nothing is more innocent than a baby. There is no such thing as a legal choice that terminates an innocent human life..... unlike chickens which may be innocent but taste pretty good once they have been terminated.

So the question becomes; is government granted the power to essentially seize a pregnant woman's body and force her to have birth?

I once read an article by a conservative (perhaps of the libertarian stripe) that explained that Government's role is to protect innocent life. However, in the case of pregnancy you have two sovereign individuals who's lives are intertwined. To assert that the state has the power to force a woman to give birth if she so doesn't desire to do so is to essentially seize the woman's body for the purposes of state enforced forced reproduction. Such a policy philosophically asserts the state's authority over the mother's rights concerning not only her own body but also establishes the unborn child as state property. Therefore a just and civil response is in favor of choice. This preserves the mother's rights over her own body and prevents her from being seized by the government and forced to give birth. It also asserts the authority of the mother over the state in regards to her unborn child making the unborn child entirely under her authority. The unborn child is therefore legally viewed as an extension of the mother's person. The will of the mother regarding her unborn child is to be respected. This allows for not only choice in matters regarding abortion, but also privacy regarding the deepest and most intimate issues of her health. Lastly, since the mother's rights over her own body and her will regarding the unborn child is asserted over the powers of the state, the unborn may also be protected in cases of unlawful termination of the pregnancy (miscarriage) when the mother intended to carry the child to term. Conversely if the state has the legal authority to seize a woman's body and force her to give birth the woman and the child in question are reduced to property of the state. If a child is property of the state before birth, it is philosophically the property of the state after birth. Therefore laws forcing women to give birth are a direct assault on women and an assertion of state ownership over children.

All of that is not to say that abortion should be accepted as morally right in every circumstance. Churches and houses of worship should indeed condemn unnecessary abortion to the point of even enforcing those convictions throughout their congregations by proper pronouncements of anathema. Women should be educated regarding the unborn life they are essentially responsible for and in authority over. A woman should also be expected to seek moral counsel from the woman's husband and/or religious counselor.

I wish I had that article. It was very interesting.

[SOUNWORTHY]

He scares me too!

And he scares me also !!:tissue

[Scott Hutchinson]

Too bad Ron Paul can't be in the poll.

[DanielR]

You must be a vegetarian. :)


Woa, I'm a vegetarian but I would never make an arguement like this person is. There is a huge difference between a vegetarian and an animal right activist, the common thread between these two people groups is that ARA's are also vegetarians as part of their...shall I say it? I believe I will...religion. Whereas vegetarianism is just a diet choice for vegetarians.

[DanielR]

Too bad Ron Paul can't be in the poll.

Since he's not, I guess we'll just have to vote for "none of the above"

[Praxeas]

Isn't it murder when we step on a ant or snail, run over a squirrel or possum, put a dog or cat to sleep? What about killing a rat with a rat trap? What about hunting?


Isn't that murder, or are those life forms worthless piece of trash?
no that is not murder. Murder is the willful act to take another human's life.

Additionally an unborn child..or any human life..is not equal to an animal

[Praxeas]

Murder is to deprive of life.

Murder is murder.
Murder is a form of killing. It's specifically refers to taking human lives.

[Praxeas]

A murderer is a criminal who commits homicide. It's within God's bounds/limitations to take whomever's life He wishes, by Himself, or by direct commandment through a 3rd party.


Divided, what's the process called when a man/women takes the life of an animal?
It's not "homicide" that is for sure.

Homicde www.dictionary.com
1.the killing of one human being by another.
2.a person who kills another; murderer.

Murder is the taking of a human life.

[Praxeas]

I don't know what he calls it, but I call it dinner.
"you can't grill it till you kill it" - Ted Nugent

[Praxeas]

Re-phrase your stance on abortion please.

When one takes the life of any life-form, that is murder. At least, that's what murder signifies here on Earth.
Nope. Not what murder means.

[Praxeas]

In other words, murder or kill. Thanks.:bliss
Murder and Kill are not equal terms. You can kill anything, but when you kill a human willfully it is murder

[Praxeas]

Which is classified as butchering meaning one that ruthlessly or brutally kills and animal.


:drama KILLER:toofunny
I believe you just butchered the dictionary by combining two different definitions into one and applying it to Ferd contrary to how Ferd used the word

[Encryptus]

Isn't it murder when we step on a ant or snail, run over a squirrel or possum, put a dog or cat to sleep? What about killing a rat with a rat trap? What about hunting?


Isn't that murder, or are those life forms worthless piece of trash?

Fascinating thought process: the killing of any mammal is a violation of God's commandment against murder?

And yet God ordered the "murder" of millions of animals as blood offerings. Which by your definition would be in direct violation of one of the ten commandments.

Hmmmm

Or could murder be the killing of a human with malice?

[Ferd]

So the question becomes; is government granted the power to essentially seize a pregnant woman's body and force her to have birth?

I once read an article by a conservative (perhaps of the libertarian stripe) that explained that Government's role is to protect innocent life. However, in the case of pregnancy you have two sovereign individuals who's lives are intertwined. To assert that the state has the power to force a woman to give birth if she so doesn't desire to do so is to essentially seize the woman's body for the purposes of state enforced forced reproduction. Such a policy philosophically asserts the state's authority over the mother's rights concerning not only her own body but also establishes the unborn child as state property. Therefore a just and civil response is in favor of choice. This preserves the mother's rights over her own body and prevents her from being seized by the government and forced to give birth. It also asserts the authority of the mother over the state in regards to her unborn child making the unborn child entirely under her authority. The unborn child is therefore legally viewed as an extension of the mother's person. The will of the mother regarding her unborn child is to be respected. This allows for not only choice in matters regarding abortion, but also privacy regarding the deepest and most intimate issues of her health. Lastly, since the mother's rights over her own body and her will regarding the unborn child is asserted over the powers of the state, the unborn may also be protected in cases of unlawful termination of the pregnancy (miscarriage) when the mother intended to carry the child to term. Conversely if the state has the legal authority to seize a woman's body and force her to give birth the woman and the child in question are reduced to property of the state. If a child is property of the state before birth, it is philosophically the property of the state after birth. Therefore laws forcing women to give birth are a direct assault on women and an assertion of state ownership over children.

All of that is not to say that abortion should be accepted as morally right in every circumstance. Churches and houses of worship should indeed condemn unnecessary abortion to the point of even enforcing those convictions throughout their congregations by proper pronouncements of anathema. Women should be educated regarding the unborn life they are essentially responsible for and in authority over. A woman should also be expected to seek moral counsel from the woman's husband and/or religious counselor.

I wish I had that article. It was very interesting.

Chris, there is this old song.

it has a great line in it.

Dont go away mad, just go away. this thread isnt about the chinese. go to your other thread that is about the chinese and complain all you want about how I want to murder chinese babies.

lets stick to talking about killing chickens and putting them in tacos in this thread.

thank you for playing.

[Ferd]

Woa, I'm a vegetarian but I would never make an arguement like this person is. There is a huge difference between a vegetarian and an animal right activist, the common thread between these two people groups is that ARA's are also vegetarians as part of their...shall I say it? I believe I will...religion. Whereas vegetarianism is just a diet choice for vegetarians.

vegetarianism is the spirit of the anti-christ.

God said to KILL AND EAT

[DanielR]

vegetarianism is the spirit of the anti-christ.

God said to KILL AND EAT


Hmm, so you think these four Hebrew men had the spirit of anti-christ?


Daniel Chapter 1

1In the third year of the reign of Jehoiakim king of Judah came Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon unto Jerusalem, and besieged it.

2And the Lord gave Jehoiakim king of Judah into his hand, with part of the vessels of the house of God: which he carried into the land of Shinar to the house of his god; and he brought the vessels into the treasure house of his god.

3And the king spake unto Ashpenaz the master of his eunuchs, that he should bring certain of the children of Israel, and of the king's seed, and of the princes;

4Children in whom was no blemish, but well favoured, and skilful in all wisdom, and cunning in knowledge, and understanding science, and such as had ability in them to stand in the king's palace, and whom they might teach the learning and the tongue of the Chaldeans.

5And the king appointed them a daily provision of the king's meat, and of the wine which he drank: so nourishing them three years, that at the end thereof they might stand before the king.

6Now among these were of the children of Judah, Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah:

7Unto whom the prince of the eunuchs gave names: for he gave unto Daniel the name of Belteshazzar; and to Hananiah, of Shadrach; and to Mishael, of Meshach; and to Azariah, of Abednego.

8But Daniel purposed in his heart that he would not defile himself with the portion of the king's meat, nor with the wine which he drank: therefore he requested of the prince of the eunuchs that he might not defile himself.

9Now God had brought Daniel into favour and tender love with the prince of the eunuchs.

10And the prince of the eunuchs said unto Daniel, I fear my lord the king, who hath appointed your meat and your drink: for why should he see your faces worse liking than the children which are of your sort? then shall ye make me endanger my head to the king.

11Then said Daniel to Melzar, whom the prince of the eunuchs had set over Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah,

12Prove thy servants, I beseech thee, ten days; and let them give us pulse to eat, and water to drink.

13Then let our countenances be looked upon before thee, and the countenance of the children that eat of the portion of the king's meat: and as thou seest, deal with thy servants.

14So he consented to them in this matter, and proved them ten days.

15And at the end of ten days their countenances appeared fairer and fatter in flesh than all the children which did eat the portion of the king's meat.

16Thus Melzar took away the portion of their meat, and the wine that they should drink; and gave them pulse.

17As for these four children, God gave them knowledge and skill in all learning and wisdom: and Daniel had understanding in all visions and dreams.

18Now at the end of the days that the king had said he should bring them in, then the prince of the eunuchs brought them in before Nebuchadnezzar.

19And the king communed with them; and among them all was found none like Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah: therefore stood they before the king.

20And in all matters of wisdom and understanding, that the king enquired of them, he found them ten times better than all the magicians and astrologers that were in all his realm.

21And Daniel continued even unto the first year of king Cyrus.


pulse : the edible seeds of various crops (as peas, beans, or lentils) of the legume family; also : a plant yielding pulse

[DividedThigh]

Divided, what's the process called when a man/women takes the life of an animal?

we hunters call it harvesting, who cares dude, dt

[Grasshopper]

I don't think it's a sin to eat meat. But I do believe that based on the overall design of the human teeth, we are primarily designed to eat fruits and veggies. No massive canines to indicate a design to kill and eat as seen in nature. In the Garden Adam was commissioned to eat of any "tree" in the garden. I personally don't believe that eating meat became human practice until after the Fall.

[DividedThigh]

well that is one of the reasons we cook it, and tenderize it, tasty, lol,dt by the way i think you are right about not eating meat till after the fall, my opinion of course

[Ferd]

Hmm, so you think these four Hebrew men had the spirit of anti-christ?



pulse : the edible seeds of various crops (as peas, beans, or lentils) of the legume family; also : a plant yielding pulse

Daniel, I was being over the top again. made me smile anyway.

No. if you want to be a vegtible eater that is perfectly fine and not the spirit of Anti-Christ, however when one crosses a line and begins to seek to make others conform it is the spirit of anti-christ.

I would say that if a person needed to eat no meat due to health reasons, its fine. but when you do it because killing a goat is murder, you have crossed a line that I dont want to be anywhere near.

1 Timothy 4
1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

3Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

4For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

5For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

[DanielR]

God said to KILL AND EAT

Deuteronomy 12:14-16

14But in the place which the LORD shall choose in one of thy tribes, there thou shalt offer thy burnt offerings, and there thou shalt do all that I command thee.

15Notwithstanding thou mayest kill and eat flesh in all thy gates, whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, according to the blessing of the LORD thy God which he hath given thee: the unclean and the clean may eat thereof, as of the roebuck, and as of the hart.

16Only ye shall not eat the blood; ye shall pour it upon the earth as water.

Well here God said that you may kill and eat, not you must kill and eat.

As far as Acts Chapter 10 it's not a command to eat meat as much as a command to take the gospel to the gentiles with a secondary allowence to consume all kinds of animals for those that already consume meat. It is not however a command for vegetarians to consume meat.

[DanielR]

Daniel, I was being over the top again. made me smile anyway.

No. if you want to be a vegtible eater that is perfectly fine and not the spirit of Anti-Christ, however when one crosses a line and begins to seek to make others conform it is the spirit of anti-christ.

I would say that if a person needed to eat no meat due to health reasons, its fine. but when you do it because killing a goat is murder, you have crossed a line that I dont want to be anywhere near.

1 Timothy 4
1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

3Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

4For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

5For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

Exactly. I thought you was over the top, but I have come across those that truely believe what you said, convieniently dismissing the examples in God's word. There are extreemists on both sides.

[Ferd]

Exactly. I thought you was over the top, but I have come across those that truely believe what you said, convieniently dismissing the examples in God's word. There are extreemists on both sides.


you are right. some folk go overboard. I do see this spirit creeping into the church. we see it gaining force in the world daily.

[DividedThigh]

balance friends, extremism is wrong even if you are right, because it leads to judging others, not good, like fox news fair and balanced, lol,dt

[Ferd]

balance friends, extremism is wrong even if you are right, because it leads to judging others, not good, like fox news fair and balanced, lol,dt

it is right to eat pork ribs... of that I am certain.

me and my brother in law polished off nearly 60 baby back ribs at Tony Romas one night a few years ago.... that is a form or extremeism that I am FOR!

[DividedThigh]

we could have done 90 if i had been there, lol,dt

[Ferd]

we could have done 90 if i had been there, lol,dt

my brother, there are few things in this world better than a pork rib. I would share a plate any day!

alas, Tony Roma's has closed in the Dallas area....it just breaks my heart to drive past my favorite Tony's and see that it is now some stupid fondue resturant.

Ribs replaced by chick feed. sad.

[scotty]

I'm still undecided, but of these two will receive my vote!






http://morningcoffee.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/clinton-obama-tradeing-jabs.jpg


You can't vote for Hillary, she won't be the nominee

[Ferd]

You can't vote for Hillary, she won't be the nominee

where you been dude? taking a long trip on a short bus?

[Grasshopper]

vegetarianism is the spirit of the anti-christ.

God said to KILL AND EAT

Hermenuetically God was refering to the Gentiles, not diet. ;)

But...

As I reflected on the notion of Christian vegetarianism I began to consider some things. I’m a big meat eater and I was over 245 lbs, and at my height (5.4”) that’s a heart attack waiting to happen. My mother died last year of a heart attack at 54 years old and everyone in my family over 50 has already had some form of heart surgery. I was 31 years old and my blood pressure was through the roof. After consulting with my doctor she advised that I eat less red meats and that I eat more fruits, vegetables and sea food. I’ve now lost a lot of weight and my blood pressure has stabilized. Things look good in all the tests now. Eating meat in modest amounts isn’t a problem, but when meat is eaten with every meal and if that meat is high in fat, fried, or is red meat the body suffers. I believe this is by design, we’re not designed for so much meat intake. Many who are big on meat are men given over to appetite and excess, obese, and abusing their bodies… the temple of the Holy Ghost. While they might decry the idea of drinking a glass of wine with dinner (something found to be pretty good for us) and smoking, they are more than willing to down massive steaks, cheeseburgers, friend chicken, gravy, and all the “fixin’s”. I know…I was there. What they fail to realize is that these foods are more deadly and cause more harm to the temple (our bodies) than modest intake of wine or spirits. Yes, regular eating of a double cheeseburger and fries (especially Super Sized) will do more harm to the body than a glass of Merlot or Chardonnay with dinner or before bed 4 to 5 times a week. Most people I know eat like this for lunch and dinner day in and day out. It’s no wonder America has such a high obesity rate. Man wasn’t designed to be a carnivore.

I have great respect for those who have the discipline to eat vegetarian diets. Those vegetarians who eat a diverse range of fruits and vegetables and grains get all the nutrients they need and they are far healthier by and large than their meat eating counterparts. In a sense vegetarians are returning to man’s Edenic eating habits.

While eating meat isn’t a sin…abusing the temple of God (our bodies) is. Eating too much meat and being obese has to be sin by virtue of how bad it is for your body. Bad health or being obese hinders your ministry, your witness, and essentially buries the light you have under a bushel of fat. This is why I believe God condemned gluttony in the OT. Gluttony, in my opinion, is not only “overeating” but I also see it as undisciplined eating that causes serious harm to our bodies. I put it on the same moral level as fornication. If a man commits fornication he sins against his own body…so to if a man fails to eat properly and damages his health he sins against his own body.

God began to speak to me about this subject after my bout with high blood pressure and other health issues that were the result of my eating habits. I don’t mean this in any condemnatory way, I present it as an admonition from someone who’s been there and done that. Dear brothers and sisters…beware of the idolatrous flesh pots of Egypt.

[Ferd]

Hermenuetically God was refering to the Gentiles, not diet. ;)

But...

As I reflected on the notion of Christian vegetarianism I began to consider some things. I’m a big meat eater and I was over 245 lbs, and at my height (5.4”) that’s a heart attack waiting to happen. My mother died last year of a heart attack at 54 years old and everyone in my family over 50 has already had some form of heart surgery. I was 31 years old and my blood pressure was through the roof. After consulting with my doctor she advised that I eat less red meats and that I eat more fruits, vegetables and sea food. I’ve now lost a lot of weight and my blood pressure has stabilized. Things look good in all the tests now. Eating meat in modest amounts isn’t a problem, but when meat is eaten with every meal and if that meat is high in fat, fried, or is red meat the body suffers. I believe this is by design, we’re not designed for so much meat intake. Many who are big on meat are men given over to appetite and excess, obese, and abusing their bodies… the temple of the Holy Ghost. While they might decry the idea of drinking a glass of wine with dinner (something found to be pretty good for us) and smoking, they are more than willing to down massive steaks, cheeseburgers, friend chicken, gravy, and all the “fixin’s”. I know…I was there. What they fail to realize is that these foods are more deadly and cause more harm to the temple (our bodies) than modest intake of wine or spirits. Yes, regular eating of a double cheeseburger and fries (especially Super Sized) will do more harm to the body than a glass of Merlot or Chardonnay with dinner or before bed 4 to 5 times a week. Most people I know eat like this for lunch and dinner day in and day out. It’s no wonder America has such a high obesity rate. Man wasn’t designed to be a carnivore.

I have great respect for those who have the discipline to eat vegetarian diets. Those vegetarians who eat a diverse range of fruits and vegetables and grains get all the nutrients they need and they are far healthier by and large than their meat eating counterparts. In a sense vegetarians are returning to man’s Edenic eating habits.

While eating meat isn’t a sin…abusing the temple of God (our bodies) is. Eating too much meat and being obese has to be sin by virtue of how bad it is for your body. Bad health or being obese hinders your ministry, your witness, and essentially buries the light you have under a bushel of fat. This is why I believe God condemned gluttony in the OT. Gluttony, in my opinion, is not only “overeating” but I also see it as undisciplined eating that causes serious harm to our bodies. I put it on the same moral level as fornication. If a man commits fornication he sins against his own body…so to if a man fails to eat properly and damages his health he sins against his own body.

God began to speak to me about this subject after my bout with high blood pressure and other health issues that were the result of my eating habits. I don’t mean this in any condemnatory way, I present it as an admonition from someone who’s been there and done that. Dear brothers and sisters…beware of the idolatrous flesh pots of Egypt.

yawn

[Titus2Mom]

None of the above.

I cast my vote in the primary, and it was the only time this season that I will be able to do it with a good conscience. I will no longer vote *against* anyone. I've said it before...voting for the lesser of two evils is still voting for evil.

[Grasshopper]

yawn

Sorry, too spiritual for ya? lol

Faith without works is dead.

Too many "men of God" straining at wine and dress codes while swallowing camels...with extra cheese and two strips of bacon of course. Oh...and don't forget the fries. :lol

Abuse of the temple is nothing to yawn at.

[Ferd]

None of the above.

I cast my vote in the primary, and it was the only time this season that I will be able to do it with a good conscience. I will no longer vote *against* anyone. I've said it before...voting for the lesser of two evils is still voting for evil.
Ron Paul voter?

[Ferd]

Sorry, too spiritual for ya? lol

Faith without works is dead.

Too many "men of God" straining at wine and dress codes while swallowing camels...with extra cheese and two strips of bacon of course. Oh...and don't forget the fries. :lol

Abuse of the temple is nothing to yawn at.

some of the things that come out of the end of your finders is.....


and I think you get hearburn confused with the voice of God on a regular basis.

[Grasshopper]

Here’s another angle…selfishness.

Eating whatever we like whenever we like in spite of the consequences of our health is terribly selfish. When my mother died I was facing high blood pressure and other health problems relating to my weight. After my mom died I was eating a double cheeseburger at MacDonald’s on a Saturday. It dawned on me that I had eaten at fast food places all week…and I had eaten whatever I liked. I looked down at my little boy and he looked up at me with so much love and beaming joy. I felt something…I was being selfish. My mother died at 54 from heart disease (it runs in my family). When I’m 54 my son will be 23. Do I want my 23 year old son looking down into the casket at his 54 year old father? Do I want him, not even 25 years old, weeping while speaking at my funeral? What was I doing? Where were my priorities? My son loves me and needs me. He needs a father to walk with him as he grows into manhood, being a husband, and fatherhood. Was my “double cheeseburger and fries with coke” worth robbing him of years with his father? And my wife…oh God…is it fair to her, after being so faithful to me, for me to eat like a human locust until it kills me and she is left a widow and alone after all her love and tenderness?

I was eating whatever I liked without regard to my health or my family’s need of a father. I was in sin. Yes, sin. Not necessarily for eating meats etc….but for being gluttonous and selfish. Me, my desires, my appetites, my tastes. That was my concern when I pulled up a plate. Today I don’t eat like that. Today I eat far more veggies (though not vegetarian), grains, lean chicken, and fish. I have red meat maybe once a week if that. When I’m preparing my seafood Caesar salad (which I’m having for lunch today), I say my prayers and take an extra couple seconds to pray for my family. I think about my mom’s funeral, my son, and my wife and I ask God to bless my food for the nourishment of my body that I might live long and be the husband and father he desires me to be.

If you are a vegetarian or practicing temperance in regards to your diet don’t be ashamed. Don’t let anyone cast judgment upon you. In fact, I’d question their judgment and lack of wisdom and foresight. You can be sure they'd protect their financial investments...but your health is the greatest investment other than Heaven itself. Eat to the glory of God. Let what you eat be a sweet life giving sacrifice of love before your God and creator. Let what you eat be a form of worship, praising him in all things, and building up the temple of the Holy Ghost with health and vitality.

Odds are you will not face bankruptcy, be killed in a terrorist attack, or be killed in an armed robbery. However, the odds are pretty good that if you're an average American you may face America's leading killer...heart disease. When you preach your 54 year old mother's funeral it opens your eyes to the more important and more practical things in life. Advice like this is perhaps more practical and more important than most are willing to admit.

[1Corinth2v4]

yo ONE SEE, did you see my answer to your abortion question?

Now, my stance on abortion.... not that it relates in any way to this discussion... but.... at the point where the first blood cell exists (around day 21) there is absolutly no justifyable reason to kill the baby unless not doing so would cause the mother to die.

innocent life is to be protected. the bible says the life is in the blood. (this is my own view and my experience is that most people dont make this connection but this is what I got from studing scripture on the subject.)

the reason why I would make an expection of the life of the mother, is that at the point where the baby could cause the mothers death, the baby though innocent itself, is an instument of death. also generally speaking the baby would die as well.

I also think there is some argument to terminate a pregnancy where the baby is not viable. but this is slippery. some "not viable" babies would live for some period of time. others would be born with no brain and arent capable of survival in any form at all. so where is that line?

so there. thats my stance on abortion. its really really bad.



Ferd,

Here's my stance on abortion.

If a woman willfully engages in sexual intercourse, she shouldn't be allowed to abort, even if the condom brakes or the anti-birth pills were defective.

If a woman feels to emulate Jezebel, she should responsibly accept the outcome! Furthermore, a man should also take responsibility and raise his child!


I only see one exception for abortion, if a woman is raped, and eventually becomes pregnant through rape.

[Ferd]

Ferd,

Here's my stance on abortion.

If a woman willfully engages in sexual intercourse, she shouldn't be allowed to abort, even if the condom brakes or the anti-birth pills were defective.

If a woman feels to emulates Jezebel, she should responsibly accept the outcome! Furthermore, a man should also take responsibility and raise his child!


I only see one exception for abortion, if a woman is raped, and eventually becomes pregnant through rape.
thank God! reasonable conversation has returned!

my brother I agree to a point.... but I have to ask, why is it ok to terminate an innocent life, because of rape?

Now i understand the increadable mental strain i am speaking of. but is that justifcation for ending a human life?

[1Corinth2v4]

thank God! reasonable conversation has returned!

my brother I agree to a point.... but I have to ask, why is it ok to terminate an innocent life, because of rape?

Now i understand the increadable mental strain i am speaking of. but is that justifcation for ending a human life?


Well, in reviewing journals I've learned a infant's heart begins functioning at 5 weeks, so technically, they're in the process of becoming a human-being prior the 5 weeks.


It's the woman's right to bear a child with her husband, and no rapist should infringe that right! For this reason I find an exception with abortion.


Ferd, from my understanding you're a father? Lets pretend your daughter was 21, and she's 2 months from wedding her husband. You then found out she was raped and became pregnant.

Should she keep this child?

[Monkeyman]

This is one of the differences between Mexicans and us Puerto Ricans. I grew up with the flour tortillas. In fact, my first time eating corn tortillas was at Taco Bell. To me, corn tortillas are like large Frito chips. They're good, but I can't get into eating them as tacos. My wife likes them with tacos though.I can see I need to get this thread back on track.
Taco bell does not resemble at all the corn tortillas I speak of. We bake them not fry, and they are warm, doughy, with a hint of lime. So amazing filled with grilled steak, chicken, or pork. Throw in some fresh salsa, hot salsa, lime juice, onions, a little cilantro, and
BAM
you have a wonderful GOD GIVEN delight!!!

[Rico]

I don't think it's a sin to eat meat. But I do believe that based on the overall design of the human teeth, we are primarily designed to eat fruits and veggies. No massive canines to indicate a design to kill and eat as seen in nature. In the Garden Adam was commissioned to eat of any "tree" in the garden. I personally don't believe that eating meat became human practice until after the Fall.

That's because God gave us the intelligence to know that meat needs to be cooked. We don't eat it raw or rip it off the body of the animal we are eating. Plus, we have the use of our hands. That's why we don't have teeth like an animal.

Sometimes I wonder if people actually think about what they are posting before they post it.

[Monkeyman]

I don't think it's a sin to eat meat. But I do believe that based on the overall design of the human teeth, we are primarily designed to eat fruits and veggies. No massive canines to indicate a design to kill and eat as seen in nature. In the Garden Adam was commissioned to eat of any "tree" in the garden. I personally don't believe that eating meat became human practice until after the Fall.Dude, I just watched my neighbors dog poop on my lawn, should I get back to nature and reciprocate???

Every once in a while, some whackos invade the forum...tag, you're it!

[Ferd]

Well, in reviewing journals I've learned a infant's heart begins functioning at 5 weeks, so technically, they're in the process of becoming a human-being prior the 5 weeks.


It's the woman's right to bear a child with her husband, and no rapist should infringe that right! For this reason I find an exception with abortion.


Ferd, from my understanding you're a father? Lets pretend your daughter was 21, and she's 2 months from wedding her husband. You then found out she was raped and became pregnant.

Should she keep this child?

I am a father. I prefer not to pretend as you suggest.

It certainly is a horrible horrible thing to be faced with isnt it?

the heart actaully begins to beat around day 20 first a clear liquid then within about a day, actual blood cells...

I cant even begin to imagine the horror that a lady is faced with in such a situation. but are we saying that abortion should be about the emotional impact to the mother?

I dont know that I can simply say I disagree with that. but if we are going to say that abortion is wrong because the child is innocent, it poses a problem for that particular exception doesnt it?

what about a 14 year old that comes from a broken home with no saftynet who got drunk and ended up doing something she should not have done? do we make an exception for that?

abortion is a terribly complicated thing.

[Rico]

I can see I need to get this thread back on track.
Taco bell does not resemble at all the corn tortillas I speak of. We bake them not fry, and they are warm, doughy, with a hint of lime. So amazing filled with grilled steak, chicken, or pork. Throw in some fresh salsa, hot salsa, lime juice, onions, a little cilantro, and
BAM
you have a wonderful GOD GIVEN delight!!!

Never tried them that way, Bro. The only ones I have tried are the Taco Bell variety and the ones like Taco Bell's you can get at the grocery store. What you are describing sounds pretty good.

[Ferd]

I can see I need to get this thread back on track.
Taco bell does not resemble at all the corn tortillas I speak of. We bake them not fry, and they are warm, doughy, with a hint of lime. So amazing filled with grilled steak, chicken, or pork. Throw in some fresh salsa, hot salsa, lime juice, onions, a little cilantro, and
BAM
you have a wonderful GOD GIVEN delight!!!

oh man now you are talking! mmmmmmmmmmm


one of the great things about texas is what you speak of above....

[Baron1710]

I am a father. I prefer not to pretend as you suggest.

It certainly is a horrible horrible thing to be faced with isnt it?

the heart actaully begins to beat around day 20 first a clear liquid then within about a day, actual blood cells...

I cant even begin to imagine the horror that a lady is faced with in such a situation. but are we saying that abortion should be about the emotional impact to the mother?

I dont know that I can simply say I disagree with that. but if we are going to say that abortion is wrong because the child is innocent, it poses a problem for that particular exception doesnt it?

what about a 14 year old that comes from a broken home with no saftynet who got drunk and ended up doing something she should not have done? do we make an exception for that?
abortion is a terribly complicated thing.

Legally that could be rape since she cannot consent if she is drunk.

[Monkeyman]

Rico, you forgot the other difference between Mexicans and Puerto Ricans...we can whup you at soccer:D

Similarities? We both become Spanish when we start dating someone's daughter!!! LOL!!

[Ferd]

Rico, you forgot the other difference between Mexicans and Puerto Ricans...we can whup you at soccer:D

Similarities? We both become Spanish when we start dating someone's daughter!!! LOL!!

dont yall both make fun of cubans?

[Rico]

Rico, you forgot the other difference between Mexicans and Puerto Ricans...we can whup you at soccer:D

Similarities? We both become Spanish when we start dating someone's daughter!!! LOL!!

Soccer is not really that a big a sport amongst us Ricans. We are more into baseball!! GO CUBS!!!

[Rico]

dont yall both make fun of cubans?

Just Fidel!!

[Monkeyman]

dont yall both make fun of cubans?Naw, there too easy a target...like gringos................:D:happydance

[Ferd]

Naw, there too easy a target...like gringos................:D:happydance

then you may not be Mexican.... I got a buddy whos dad was a Mexican Senator.... he says the Cuban is the Hispanic Pollock!

I should be nice. I like Cuban food so they cant be all that bad.

[DividedThigh]

funny monkey man, and rico you funny too, lol

[DividedThigh]

I can see I need to get this thread back on track.
Taco bell does not resemble at all the corn tortillas I speak of. We bake them not fry, and they are warm, doughy, with a hint of lime. So amazing filled with grilled steak, chicken, or pork. Throw in some fresh salsa, hot salsa, lime juice, onions, a little cilantro, and
BAM
you have a wonderful GOD GIVEN delight!!!

you are making me hungry bro, i want some of that, lol

[Monkeyman]

then you may not be Mexican.... I got a buddy whos dad was a Mexican Senator.... he says the Cuban is the Hispanic Pollock!

I should be nice. I like Cuban food so they cant be all that bad.I never tried Cuban food til later in life, man have I been missing the bus! And their coffee, mmmm mmmm!:bliss

[Monkeyman]

you are making me hungry bro, i want some of that, lol
When the wife does an occasional girls night out or a work trip....it get pretty cavemanish out on my deck...a grill, a cow, and hot peppers!!!!! I only come up for air!

[Ferd]

I never tried Cuban food til later in life, man have I been missing the bus! And their coffee, mmmm mmmm!:bliss

i am soooo hungry right now.... gonna eat me some cajun dirty rice in a minute.

[DividedThigh]

Dude, I just watched my neighbors dog poop on my lawn, should I get back to nature and reciprocate???

Every once in a while, some whackos invade the forum...tag, you're it!

your killin me monkey man, lol,dt i smell chris hall again, lol:boxing

[DividedThigh]

i am soooo hungry right now.... gonna eat me some cajun dirty rice in a minute.

stop it dude i am allready drooling, lol:toofunny

[Ferd]

When the wife does an occasional girls night out or a work trip....it get pretty cavemanish out on my deck...a grill, a cow, and hot peppers!!!!! I only come up for air!

sometimes , I force my wife to endure these events.

she generally doesnt complain.

I have found the lime to be the key to good Mex-style grilling. (it may be tex-mex but what ever)

[1Corinth2v4]

what about a 14 year old that comes from a broken home with no saftynet who got drunk and ended up doing something she should not have done? do we make an exception for that?


A 14 year old knows right from wrong. She clearly knows she shouldn't be drinking at that age too!

If there's a broken home, there are school counselor's, pastors, relatives, etc. that will help mentor a child within proper steps.

If she feels mature enough to drink and engage in sexual intercourse, then she'll have to be mature enough to care for her child.

No exceptions.

[Ferd]

A 14 year old knows right from wrong. She clearly knows she shouldn't be drinking at that age too!

If there's a broken home, there are school counselor's, pastors, relatives, etc. that will help mentor a child within proper steps.

If she feels mature enough to drink and engage in sexual intercourse, then she'll have to be mature enough to care for her child.

No exceptions.


my friend, my experience of 15 years in youth ministry tells me that kind of kid is nowhere near what you suggest and has far less support than you are providing.

that doesnt mean I support abortion for them... on the contrary i am simply pointing out that it is quite often extremely complicated.

anyone approaching the subject without being willing to have extrem empathy for those faced with a terrible reality ought not approach the subject...

[DividedThigh]

two wrongs dont make a right, grand ma said she was right, murdering that baby wont help that girl, it would only make it worse, dt

[Grasshopper]

That's because God gave us the intelligence to know that meat needs to be cooked. We don't eat it raw or rip it off the body of the animal we are eating. Plus, we have the use of our hands. That's why we don't have teeth like an animal.

Sometimes I wonder if people actually think about what they are posting before they post it.

Did Adam kill and eat in the Garden? We are told specifically that he was granted to eat of every "tree" of the Garden. The Garden reflect's God's perfect will regarding man's design not norms in our fallen state. (Animal death was absent in the garden, Adam and Eve were vegetarians.)

Some I wonder if people actually read what the Bible says before they post it. lol

[Grasshopper]

Ferd,

Here's my stance on abortion.

If a woman willfully engages in sexual intercourse, she shouldn't be allowed to abort, even if the condom brakes or the anti-birth pills were defective.

If a woman feels to emulate Jezebel, she should responsibly accept the outcome! Furthermore, a man should also take responsibility and raise his child!

I only see one exception for abortion, if a woman is raped, and eventually becomes pregnant through rape.

Here’s my stance on abortion.

Abortion is morally wrong in every circumstance with the possible exception of when the lives of both are compromised. To sanction abortion in the event of rape is to morally accept the murder of an unborn child for the sin of its father. It is morally wrong to abort even in cases of rape or incest.

My question is in regards to state power. Does the state have authority to essentially seize the body of a woman, assume ownership of the unborn child, and force her to give birth? What does the state do to women who resist or don’t comply? All arguments against abortion typically argue that it should be illegal but the polemic stops there and the concept isn’t carried to fruition. Assuming that the state does have the authority to seize the body of a woman and assume ownership of the unborn child, what would the penalty be for a woman who procured abortion? If abortion is murder the state should prosecute her for murder. However, this has never happened in American history and it’s pretty practical to assume that unless we take over the government by military force and institute a Taliban style regime a woman will never be charged for murder in relation to abortion. Same problems exist with regards to prosecuting abortionists. So, what do we do then? Some say we fine the woman and/or the abortionist. Ok…but now life is measured in value compared to a parking ticket. Wealthy women will just pay the fines and walk away. Essentially the only ones penalized will be those who struggle to pay it (which isn’t a bad idea, the . But the real issue with the fine is that it becomes a source of government revenue. Essentially it is an “abortion tax” and government profits from abortion. Lastly, some say that the license of a doctor should be revoked. That would be good, but most abortions aren’t performed by licensed doctors.

Not of the above truly address abortion as murder. And if abortion isn’t “murder” then on what grounds do we make it illegal? Also, even if it is successfully made illegal, the battle’s not won. Pro-Choice forces will seek to overturn abortions prohibition. And then there’s that…prohibition. Policies of prohibition appear to always backfire creating more of a problem than the problem they were intended to address. For example, Prohibition in the US when alcohol was outlawed. A black market of abortion provision will be born and abortion will essentially drop off the map of government oversight.

While no one I know (Democrat or Republican) believes that abortion is a good thing, and Christians definitely see it as a murderous sin. Life is full of life and death choices. Government is a dirty job. It’s hardly if ever clean and noble. Its grit, sweat, and law. Rule to enforce social stability. The SCOTUS ruled that Government should step aside and that this most controversial decision and all its physical, moral, and psychological consequences should rest entirely on the individual woman. Those way the government’s hands are clean and the responsibility is entirely on individual women who choose the procedure.

So what penalties will be enforced upon women and abortionists in the case of an abortion if abortion is made illegal?

But abortion, regardless of legality, is immoral with the only possible exception of when attempting to save the mother’s life when the child and mother would die anyway. I know many who would say even in this case, one should trust God to decide who lives and who dies, but in my opinion, that’s problematic.

I find it interesting how serious we view this sin politically…yet we do very little in our congregations regarding it. In my opinion women who have procured abortion shouldn’t be licensed or allowed to serve in leadership offices of the church. Member? Sure. But not a board member or official of the church. There is a price to pay for this most heinous of sins. I know churches that will not ordain or allow a divorced man to serve as a licensed minister or church official. The church is just in setting certain boundaries that should never be crossed if one is to be accepted into leadership. But that’s just my opinion.

[Praxeas]

Daniel, I was being over the top again. made me smile anyway.

No. if you want to be a vegtible eater that is perfectly fine and not the spirit of Anti-Christ, however when one crosses a line and begins to seek to make others conform it is the spirit of anti-christ.

I would say that if a person needed to eat no meat due to health reasons, its fine. but when you do it because killing a goat is murder, you have crossed a line that I dont want to be anywhere near.

1 Timothy 4
1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

3Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

4For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

5For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
The "spirit" was that they forbid eating of meats as a religious practice

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit explicitly says that in the later times some will desert the faith and occupy themselves with deceiving spirits and demonic teachings,
1Ti 4:2 influenced by the hypocrisy of liars whose consciences are seared.
1Ti 4:3 They will prohibit marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For every creation of God is good and no food is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving.
1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by God's word and by prayer.

[Ferd]

The "spirit" was that they forbid eating of meats as a religious practice

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit explicitly says that in the later times some will desert the faith and occupy themselves with deceiving spirits and demonic teachings,
1Ti 4:2 influenced by the hypocrisy of liars whose consciences are seared.
1Ti 4:3 They will prohibit marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For every creation of God is good and no food is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving.
1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by God's word and by prayer.

yea Prax, we covered that. DanielR and I are on the same page.

[Praxeas]

Hermenuetically God was refering to the Gentiles, not diet. ;)

But...

As I reflected on the notion of Christian vegetarianism I began to consider some things. I’m a big meat eater and I was over 245 lbs, and at my height (5.4”) that’s a heart attack waiting to happen. My mother died last year of a heart attack at 54 years old and everyone in my family over 50 has already had some form of heart surgery. I was 31 years old and my blood pressure was through the roof. After consulting with my doctor she advised that I eat less red meats and that I eat more fruits, vegetables and sea food. I’ve now lost a lot of weight and my blood pressure has stabilized. Things look good in all the tests now. Eating meat in modest amounts isn’t a problem, but when meat is eaten with every meal and if that meat is high in fat, fried, or is red meat the body suffers. I believe this is by design, we’re not designed for so much meat intake. Many who are big on meat are men given over to appetite and excess, obese, and abusing their bodies… the temple of the Holy Ghost. While they might decry the idea of drinking a glass of wine with dinner (something found to be pretty good for us) and smoking, they are more than willing to down massive steaks, cheeseburgers, friend chicken, gravy, and all the “fixin’s”. I know…I was there. What they fail to realize is that these foods are more deadly and cause more harm to the temple (our bodies) than modest intake of wine or spirits. Yes, regular eating of a double cheeseburger and fries (especially Super Sized) will do more harm to the body than a glass of Merlot or Chardonnay with dinner or before bed 4 to 5 times a week. Most people I know eat like this for lunch and dinner day in and day out. It’s no wonder America has such a high obesity rate. Man wasn’t designed to be a carnivore.

I have great respect for those who have the discipline to eat vegetarian diets. Those vegetarians who eat a diverse range of fruits and vegetables and grains get all the nutrients they need and they are far healthier by and large than their meat eating counterparts. In a sense vegetarians are returning to man’s Edenic eating habits.

While eating meat isn’t a sin…abusing the temple of God (our bodies) is. Eating too much meat and being obese has to be sin by virtue of how bad it is for your body. Bad health or being obese hinders your ministry, your witness, and essentially buries the light you have under a bushel of fat. This is why I believe God condemned gluttony in the OT. Gluttony, in my opinion, is not only “overeating” but I also see it as undisciplined eating that causes serious harm to our bodies. I put it on the same moral level as fornication. If a man commits fornication he sins against his own body…so to if a man fails to eat properly and damages his health he sins against his own body.

God began to speak to me about this subject after my bout with high blood pressure and other health issues that were the result of my eating habits. I don’t mean this in any condemnatory way, I present it as an admonition from someone who’s been there and done that. Dear brothers and sisters…beware of the idolatrous flesh pots of Egypt.
Ultimately God was referring to the tearing down of the dividing wall. I just read this yesterday in Ephesians

Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility
Eph 2:15 by abolishing the law of commandments and ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace,

[DividedThigh]

hey ferd our mpd dude is back, lol, how was the rice, you made me crave popeyes, we dont have those around here, dt

[Praxeas]

Well, in reviewing journals I've learned a infant's heart begins functioning at 5 weeks, so technically, they're in the process of becoming a human-being prior the 5 weeks.


It's the woman's right to bear a child with her husband, and no rapist should infringe that right! For this reason I find an exception with abortion.


Ferd, from my understanding you're a father? Lets pretend your daughter was 21, and she's 2 months from wedding her husband. You then found out she was raped and became pregnant.

Should she keep this child?
Before 5 weeks then what is it if not Human? Even after being born Humans go through many stages of development. Infancy, Pre-teens, Teens, Adulthood etc etc....

So isn't that pre 5 week fetus still just a Human, created in God's own image in human stage of development?

At what point is that fetus considered a human?

[Ferd]

Before 5 weeks then what is it if not Human? Even after being born Humans go through many stages of development. Infancy, Pre-teens, Teens, Adulthood etc etc....

So isn't that pre 5 week fetus still just a Human, created in God's own image in human stage of development?

At what point is that fetus considered a human?

Actually Prax 1C was speaking to a point I made.

i believe that life begins when blood cells appear. the bible says that the life is in the blood.

blood appears somewhere around the 20th day.

[Praxeas]

Legally that could be rape since she cannot consent if she is drunk.
I think there is a problem with that. What if the guy is drunk too? She says "yes", but later says "Oh I was drunk, I did not really want to do it".

If she is so drunk that she can't give an answer then that should be rape. On the other hand if she got so drunk that she said yes when she would otherwise have said no then she should not get drunk because the guy simple does not read minds or know she would have said no if not drunk.

Same thing with driving a car....if you can't drink and drive either don't drink and drive or don't drink at all.

[Grasshopper]

Ultimately God was referring to the tearing down of the dividing wall. I just read this yesterday in Ephesians

Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility
Eph 2:15 by abolishing the law of commandments and ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace,

Prax, God bless ya. I'm not saying that eating meat is a sin. But gluttonous and undisciplined eating that destroyes the body is just as bad as abusing alcohol or smoking.

[Praxeas]

two wrongs dont make a right, grand ma said she was right, murdering that baby wont help that girl, it would only make it worse, dt
And two Wongs don't make a Whight

[Praxeas]

Actually Prax 1C was speaking to a point I made.

i believe that life begins when blood cells appear. the bible says that the life is in the blood.

blood appears somewhere around the 20th day.
well the same questions are not just for him but everyone. If that fetus is a human being at any stage how can we terminate that life for the reasons given? It is still a human life. The criminal was the rapest, not the girl or the fetus.

[Praxeas]

Prax, God bless ya. I'm not saying that eating meat is a sin. But gluttonous and undisciplined eating that destroyes the body is just as bad as abusing alcohol or smoking.
I didn't suggest you did say eating meat was a sin. I was simply pointing out that when God spoke to Peter about Food that though it was directly about the Gentiles it was ultimately about what God was or did with the law.

[Ferd]

well the same questions are not just for him but everyone. If that fetus is a human being at any stage how can we terminate that life for the reasons given? It is still a human life. The criminal was the rapest, not the girl or the fetus.

on this point i agree more with you than he....

but where you and I may depart is that i firmly belive that life begins when the first bloodcell forms. my belief is based on scripture.

others believe life begins at conception. I simply cannot agree with that biblically.

[Grasshopper]

I didn't suggest you did say eating meat was a sin. I was simply pointing out that when God spoke to Peter about Food that though it was directly about the Gentiles it was ultimately about what God was or did with the law.

Amen.

[Baron1710]

I think there is a problem with that. What if the guy is drunk too? She says "yes", but later says "Oh I was drunk, I did not really want to do it".

If she is so drunk that she can't give an answer then that should be rape. On the other hand if she got so drunk that she said yes when she would otherwise have said no then she should not get drunk because the guy simple does not read minds or know she would have said no if not drunk.

Same thing with driving a car....if you can't drink and drive either don't drink and drive or don't drink at all.

Not consenting to something while drunk, is different from doing something while drunk. In one case one is simply drunk and they have done nothing offensive. In both the case of the driver and the rape scenario both require assertive actions.

[Grasshopper]

On abortion, it's always an abomination unless it is in effort to save the life of the mother when the life of both would be lost.

[DividedThigh]

And two Wongs don't make a Whight

i dont speek chineese brother, lol, you funny:toofunny

[Praxeas]

on this point i agree more with you than he....
For many years the supposed argument was about when does a fetus become a life form. I personally think that is NOT really even the argument. I really think the pro abortionists...particularly the left leaning womens movement with their feminazis and dikes and the abortion industry don't care at all when life begins. It's more of a legal argument for the pro life side.

The question has to be what is life? Even scientists have to admit the simplest protozoa is a life form though a simple one. If we use that logic then it does not matter when the heart beats...that is a life form at it's earlies and simplest stage. The next question is what sort of life form? Human? If not then it's another species and one has to believe in evolution on a grand scale....

All logic points that this is in fact a Human life form in it's earliest stage,

[Praxeas]

Not consenting to something while drunk, is different from doing something while drunk. In one case one is simply drunk and they have done nothing offensive. In both the case of the driver and the rape scenario both require assertive actions.
If I understand what you just said, then I think that is pretty much what I just said. People make decisions all the time while drunk, yet able to make those decisions, but they are often bad decisions because the alcohol clutters their thinking....this is then the fault of the drunk person.

But if she is incapacitated to NOT give a clear answer as to yes or no...to not be able to consent by saying yes, then that is rape. Are we in agreement?

[DividedThigh]

prax, i dont think it matters either, i beleive life begins at conception, and abortion is murder, see bible, dt

[Ferd]

For many years the supposed argument was about when does a fetus become a life form. I personally think that is NOT really even the argument. I really think the pro abortionists...particularly the left leaning womens movement with their feminazis and dikes and the abortion industry don't care at all when life begins. It's more of a legal argument for the pro life side.

The question has to be what is life? Even scientists have to admit the simplest protozoa is a life form though a simple one. If we use that logic then it does not matter when the heart beats...that is a life form at it's earlies and simplest stage. The next question is what sort of life form? Human? If not then it's another species and one has to believe in evolution on a grand scale....

All logic points in it's earliest stage,

for me, if i am going to argue against abortion it can only be on the grounds of my faith. my faith takes me to scripture and scriture tells me life is in the blood. in the absenese of blood there is no life.

this is my story and i am sticking to it.

[Baron1710]

For many years the supposed argument was about when does a fetus become a life form. I personally think that is NOT really even the argument. I really think the pro abortionists...particularly the left leaning womens movement with their feminazis and dikes and the abortion industry don't care at all when life begins. It's more of a legal argument for the pro life side.

The question has to be what is life? Even scientists have to admit the simplest protozoa is a life form though a simple one. If we use that logic then it does not matter when the heart beats...that is a life form at it's earlies and simplest stage. The next question is what sort of life form? Human? If not then it's another species and one has to believe in evolution on a grand scale....

All logic points that this is in fact a Human life form in it's earliest stage,

I am not convinced that life begins at conception. However, until I find otherwise my attitude is that you err on the side of life.

[DividedThigh]

for me, if i am going to argue against abortion it can only be on the grounds of my faith. my faith takes me to scripture and scriture tells me life is in the blood. in the absenese of blood there is no life.

this is my story and i am sticking to it.

hey ferd i wont argue with your faith, i just believe life begins at conception, no need to argue, we both value life equally, dt

[Ferd]

I was the one that brought up the scenario of a 14 year old that got drunk and ended up pregnant.

it wasnt my intention to use that as an excuese for abortion. it was my intention to use that to point out that life is messy and difficult but even when it his messy and difficult, we need to keep two things in mind.

first, complete compassion for a person who has found herself in a terrible situation either by her own fault, or by no fault of her own.

second, what ever the mess, there is no excuse for not defending innocent life.

[Ferd]

hey ferd i wont argue with your faith, i just believe life begins at conception, no need to argue, we both value life equally, dt

agreed. it certainly isnt a point that I find needs argument. I have simply come to this conclusion because this is what the bible clearly says.

I dont find anything that points to some other place..... but like you say, it isnt a point of contention.

vertually no abortion occurs before day 20...

[1Corinth2v4]

The question has to be what is life? If we use that logic then it does not matter when the heart beats...that is a life form at it's earlies and simplest stage. The next question is what sort of life form? Human? If not then it's another species and one has to believe in evolution on a grand scale....

All logic points that this is in fact a Human life form in it's earliest stage,


Admins, I'm respectfully am posting the following. If it's inappropriate, I do apologize and ask that you remove my post.


Praxeas,


What about men that "please themselves"? Are they not killing the semen? After all, it's life at its earliest stage!

[DividedThigh]

gross, dt

[DividedThigh]

agreed. it certainly isnt a point that I find needs argument. I have simply come to this conclusion because this is what the bible clearly says.

I dont find anything that points to some other place..... but like you say, it isnt a point of contention.

vertually no abortion occurs before day 20...

i understand bro, most people dont figure it out that early now do they, lol

[Baron1710]

If I understand what you just said, then I think that is pretty much what I just said. People make decisions all the time while drunk, yet able to make those decisions, but they are often bad decisions because the alcohol clutters their thinking....this is then the fault of the drunk person.

But if she is incapacitated to NOT give a clear answer as to yes or no...to not be able to consent by saying yes, then that is rape. Are we in agreement?

Mostly. It's a fact question as to how drunk is too drunk to give consent, and if it was given.

[Praxeas]

Admins, I'm respectfully am posting the following. If it's inappropriate, I do apologize and ask that you remove my post.


Praxeas,


What about men that "please themselves"? Are they not killing the semen? After all, it's life at its earliest stage!
It's not a human life. If you took Biology you learned that it takes the combination of chromosomes from the Human man and the Human woman to created that human life in the womb.

[Praxeas]

Mostly. It's a fact question as to how drunk is too drunk to give consent, and if it was given.
Too drunk to give consent in the most obvious would be incapacitated to even speak or refuse. IF she is concious at any time and she does not want to do it she can resist or say no or stop or whatever. If she is so drunk that she can't resist or say no or stop etc etc then that would probably be the point that she is too drunk to give consent

[Baron1710]

Admins, I'm respectfully am posting the following. If it's inappropriate, I do apologize and ask that you remove my post.


Praxeas,


What about men that "please themselves"? Are they not killing the semen? After all, it's life at its earliest stage!

NO. It is not the same. Every month a woman's body naturally disposes of an egg. Even in a pregnancy only one Sperm cell lives to unite with the egg. Semen doesn't have the potential of creating life, only sperm does when joined with the egg.

[DividedThigh]

ok enough with the biology boys take it to private notes or something, lol,dt

[Baron1710]

ok enough with the biology boys take it to private notes or something, lol,dt

I thought I was very discrete...

[Praxeas]

I was too. I just used biological terms on a more "molecular" level

[Grasshopper]

I think it’s easy to try to justify abortion in cases of rape. But its still an abomination in my opinion. It is unfathomable to kill an unborn baby for the sins of its father.

As for origin of life, I believe we’re relying too much on biology instead of theology. Life begins in the mind and heart of God, biology only accommodates the life created by God. Theologically speaking life begins in the hands of God, possibly prior to conception and biological processes. Biology removes the mind, will, and plan of God. Life begins with God, not biology.

As for government, I think the ability of government to properly address abortion is marginal at best.

As for a man “pleasing himself”, if life is understood as theologically beginning in the spirit, in the mind of God prior to biological processes in our time/space continuum, we can conclude that God hasn’t intended such an act to result in reproduction, therefore life was not aborted for God wouldn’t have created a life to be conceived at such a moment of solitary climax.

The "professa" has spoken!

Now…pass the lentils. LOL

[Praxeas]

I think it’s easy to try to justify abortion in cases of rape. But its still an abomination in my opinion. It is unfathomable to kill an unborn baby for the sins of its father.

As for origin of life, I believe we’re relying too much on biology instead of theology. Life begins in the mind and heart of God, biology only accommodates the life created by God. Theologically speaking life begins in the hands of God, possibly prior to conception and biological processes. Biology removes the mind, will, and plan of God. Life begins with God, not biology.

As for government, I think the ability of government to properly address abortion is marginal at best.

As for a man “pleasing himself”, if life is understood as theologically beginning in the spirit, in the mind of God prior to biological processes in our time/space continuum, we can conclude that God hasn’t intended such an act to result in reproduction, therefore life was not aborted for God wouldn’t have created a life to be conceived at such a moment of solitary climax.

The "professa" has spoken!

Now…pass the lentils. LOL
Biblically speaking God says he formed us in the womb...not in the ovary sack or the testicles.....

[DividedThigh]

Biblically speaking God says he formed us in the womb...not in the ovary sack or the testicles.....

we have a winner, your correct sir, lol, dt

[DividedThigh]

I thought I was very discrete...

you were, but enough is enough, just kiddin you baron, lol,dt

[1Corinth2v4]

It's not a human life. If you took Biology you learned that it takes the combination of chromosomes from the Human man and the Human woman to created that human life in the womb.

Ok....and biology 321- Developmental Biology classes said without a heartbeat, there's no present life-form.

Whether a baby without a heart beat or a corpse at the morgue, they both contain blood, but bodies without a heart beat are lifeless.

[Baron1710]

I think it’s easy to try to justify abortion in cases of rape. But its still an abomination in my opinion. It is unfathomable to kill an unborn baby for the sins of its father.

As for origin of life, I believe we’re relying too much on biology instead of theology. Life begins in the mind and heart of God, biology only accommodates the life created by God. Theologically speaking life begins in the hands of God, possibly prior to conception and biological processes. Biology removes the mind, will, and plan of God. Life begins with God, not biology.
As for government, I think the ability of government to properly address abortion is marginal at best.

As for a man “pleasing himself”, if life is understood as theologically beginning in the spirit, in the mind of God prior to biological processes in our time/space continuum, we can conclude that God hasn’t intended such an act to result in reproduction, therefore life was not aborted for God wouldn’t have created a life to be conceived at such a moment of solitary climax.

The "professa" has spoken!

Now…pass the lentils. LOL

What have you been reading for your Theology the book of Mormon?

[James Griffin]

I am constantly amazed at how these threads can take on a life of their own.

From presidential candidates to biology lessons by way of vegetarianism.

What was the catalyst again? A salad eaten by Monica Lowensky?

[DividedThigh]

funny james, hey baron are you surprised he doesnt have a freind that told him that, lol,dt

[Baron1710]

I am constantly amazed at how these threads can take on a life of their own.

From presidential candidates to biology lessons by way of vegetarianism.

What was the catalyst again? A salad eaten by Monica Lowensky?

I just fell asleep at my desk and when I woke up this is where we were so I jumped in.

[DividedThigh]

WAKE UP BARON, HES BACK, LOL,dt

[Ferd]

I am constantly amazed at how these threads can take on a life of their own.

From presidential candidates to biology lessons by way of vegetarianism.

What was the catalyst again? A salad eaten by Monica Lowensky?

The best part of this thread was when Monkeyman brought it around to nice soft corn tortillias stuffed with all kinds of meat.

[Baron1710]

The best part of this thread was when Monkeyman brought it around to nice soft corn tortillias stuffed with all kinds of meat.

My wife's Grandfather was Mexican, and she grew up in San Diego...and we are having fajita's for dinner...come on over.

[DividedThigh]

you guys are making me hungry again, goodness, dt

[Ferd]

My wife's Grandfather was Mexican, and she grew up in San Diego...and we are having fajita's for dinner...come on over.

you in the Metroplex? I will take you up on that!

[Baron1710]

you in the Metroplex? I will take you up on that!

We are where ghetto meets the trailer park, Southern Maryland.

[Ferd]

my pregnant wife informed me that I am making baked chicken battered in FROSTED FLAKES

and NO i am NOT KIDDING

[Praxeas]

Ok....and biology 321- Developmental Biology classes said without a heartbeat, there's no present life-form.

Whether a baby without a heart beat or a corpse at the morgue, they both contain blood, but bodies without a heart beat are lifeless.
If a man's heart stops and paramedics are working to bring him back to life, does he suddenly stop being a life form?

Not all life forms have hearts.

[DividedThigh]

We are where ghetto meets the trailer park, Southern Maryland.

thats funny baron but true, lol,dt hope you have enough for ferd and me , i am hungry, dt

[Ferd]

We are where ghetto meets the trailer park, Southern Maryland.

LOL! well, Its a bit far to drive... but I appreciate the thought!

[DividedThigh]

my pregnant wife informed me that I am making baked chicken battered in FROSTED FLAKES

and NO i am NOT KIDDING

get r done, she wants what she wants, lol,dt:bliss

[1Corinth2v4]

If a man's heart stops and paramedics are working to bring him back to life, does he suddenly stop being a life form?

Not all life forms have hearts.


We're talking about mammals, not plants Praxeas.


If man's heart stops beating, he is clinically dead. Can one find life in a corpse? I would suppose after it begins to decompose.

Have you not read Lee Stoneking's testimony, how he was dead for 30 minutes?

They resuscitated him back to LIFE, meaning, prior to resuscitation there was no LIFE in him!

[Praxeas]

We're talking about mammals, not plants Praxeas.


If man's heart stops beating, he is clinically dead. Can one find life in a corpse? I would suppose after it begins to decompose.

Have you not read Lee Stoneking's testimony, how he was dead for 30 minutes?

They resuscitated him back to LIFE, meaning, prior to resuscitation there was no LIFE in him!
No we are talking about LIFE FORMS and what constitutes life..a living life form. As I pointed out a fetus is a human in one stage of development. He or she does not cease to be a human as an infant, teen or later on in life. They are all just different stages of human development.

If a man's heart stops beating

4. The uniform determination of death. The National Conference of Commissioners on Uniform State Laws in 1980 formulated the Uniform Determination of Death Act. It states that: "An individual who has sustained either (1) irreversible cessation of circulatory and respiratory functions, or (2) irreversible cessation of all functions of the entire brain, including the brain stem is dead. A determination of death must be made in accordance with accepted medical standards." This definition was approved by the American Medical Association in 1980 and by the American Bar Association in 1981.

Death. When the body is no more than a corpse, is when all bodily functions cease particularly the heart and brain permanently. Otherwise those humans that got his heart to beating again were God.

[1Corinth2v4]

No we are talking about LIFE FORMS and what constitutes life..a living life form. As I pointed out a fetus is a human in one stage of development. He or she does not cease to be a human as an infant, teen or later on in life. They are all just different stages of human development..

Semen is an ingredient of human development, is that alive? If so, men that please themselves are murderers.



Death. When the body is no more than a corpse, is when all bodily functions cease particularly the heart and brain permanently. Otherwise those humans that got his heart to beating again were God.


Really! When a person is brain dead in the hospital, and is on life support, is he/she dead? NO

When are they considered dead?.....that's right.....when their hearts stops.


By the way, a cow has a heart beat......how do you feel about eating steak?

[1Corinth2v4]

No we are talking about LIFE FORMS and what constitutes life..a living life form. As I pointed out a fetus is a human in one stage of development. He or she does not cease to be a human as an infant, teen or later on in life. They are all just different stages of human development.

If a man's heart stops beating

4. The uniform determination of death. The National Conference of Commissioners on Uniform State Laws in 1980 formulated the Uniform Determination of Death Act. It states that: "An individual who has sustained either (1) irreversible cessation of circulatory and respiratory functions, or (2) irreversible cessation of all functions of the entire brain, including the brain stem is dead. A determination of death must be made in accordance with accepted medical standards." This definition was approved by the American Medical Association in 1980 and by the American Bar Association in 1981.

Death. When the body is no more than a corpse, is when all bodily functions cease particularly the heart and brain permanently. Otherwise those humans that got his heart to beating again were God.

Oh...by the way.......email Bro. Stoneking and tell him he was never dead for 30 minutes. Let me know what he tells you:happydance

[Praxeas]

Semen is an ingredient of human development, is that alive? If so, men that please themselves are murderers.
That question was already answered twice. First of all semen does not carry genetic code, sperm does. Second sperm alone is NOT a human life in a stage of development. As already stated it takes the chromosomes from a male and female to produce a human life

Really! When a person is brain dead in the hospital, and is on life support, is he/she dead? NO
YES! if the brain is not functioning they are then dead. This is why if someone's heart stops it is imperative to start the heart as soon as possible because the longer you wait the more brain damage is done until the brain stops working....the heart after that can artificially beat all you want but that person is dead.

When are they considered dead?.....that's right.....when their hearts stops.
That's wrong. It's when the brain is no longer functioning.

By the way, a cow has a heart beat......how do you feel about eating steak?
so what if it has a heart beat? what does that prove?

[Praxeas]

Oh...by the way.......email Bro. Stoneking and tell him he was never dead for 30 minutes. Let me know what he tells you:happydance
Again
4. The uniform determination of death. The National Conference of Commissioners on Uniform State Laws in 1980 formulated the Uniform Determination of Death Act.

It states that: "An individual who has sustained either (1) irreversible cessation of circulatory and respiratory functions, or (2) irreversible cessation of all functions of the entire brain, including the brain stem is dead. A determination of death must be made in accordance with accepted medical standards." This definition was approved by the American Medical Association in 1980 and by the American Bar Association in 1981.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Determination_Of_Death_Act

[1Corinth2v4]

Again
4. The uniform determination of death. The National Conference of Commissioners on Uniform State Laws in 1980 formulated the Uniform Determination of Death Act.

It states that: "An individual who has sustained either (1) irreversible cessation of circulatory and respiratory functions, or (2) irreversible cessation of all functions of the entire brain, including the brain stem is dead. A determination of death must be made in accordance with accepted medical standards." This definition was approved by the American Medical Association in 1980 and by the American Bar Association in 1981.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Determination_Of_Death_Act

Did Stoneking lie in his testimony, was he or was he not dead for 30 minutes?

[Praxeas]

Did Stoneking lie in his testimony, was he or was he not dead for 30 minutes?
Why are you avoiding my arguments? Either refute them or admit you could be wrong.

As for Stoneking or anyone else, he could be wrong and not be a liar. His heart stopped yes. His brain function did not cease. His heart was NOT permamently impaired. He was NOT dead. He was dying. If you want to say he was dead in the sense that his heart was not beating, that is fine, but realize that what I posted was from the Medical community, not Stoneking. Someone is not officially declared dead until they have exhausted all efforts to revive the heart and failed and brain function ceases.

[Grasshopper]

Biblically speaking God says he formed us in the womb...not in the ovary sack or the testicles.....

Again you miss the point, seeing that you're bound by biological concepts. Spiritually (remember we're Christians not doctors or scientists) all things originate with the creator, not the creation. While biology can tell us when something is living "materially", the life itself, the intangible and eternal soul of a man begins in the hands of God (an anthropomorphism of course) and is embodied in the natural when sperm and egg meet. The meeting of sperm and egg do not create the intangible and eternal soul of a man...that originates with God on the spiritual plane. Life technically begins and originates in the spiritual. Carnal minds always focus on the natural, science, biology, evolution, etc. But creation, life, and existence begins in God. Biology knows no God or supernatural origin, soul, or intangibles. Therefore I believe it's foolish to merely define "life" biologically like a heathen atheist would.

So I propose that life doesn't begin at conception...unless that "conception" is the "conceptualization" in the eternal mind of God before biological conception and meets the biological conception at the point when sperm and egg meet.

Man is more than a physical biological thing. Man is body, soul, and spirit.

And please note, God's formation of man in the womb isn't instantaneous...it's a nine month process.