McCain renounces endorsements

[Cindy]

John McCain renounced endorsements of John Hagee and Ron Parsley. Because of inflammatory statements.
You just can't mix religion and politics.

[bkstokes]

John McCain renounced endorsements of John Hagee and Ron Parsley. Because of inflammatory statements.
You just can't mix religion and politics.

I am not surprised look at what happened with Obama.

[Cindy]

I was thinking about that too. Even when preachers speak the truth, sometimes it is not a good idea for a politician to accept their endorsements. Even Hitler was mentioned by one of them, so not good for McCain to align with in his opinion.

[Michael The Disciple]

At this point I would say Mccain has lost my vote. Here he sits on the "Ellen" show with a lesbian and acts as if everythings fine. He thinks to sit down with Dictators is wrong because it gives them status. Well the same principal applies here in my book.

He just said to the Gays "I wish you all the happiness in the World". The context was she was going to marry her Lesbian lover. He has no judgment neither moral character. Its a shame. I was wanting to be able to vote for him.

Not only that he is busy tonight repudiating Preachers left and right. He will lose a lot of other believers votes by his actions tonight.

[Rico]

So much for the Republican Party being against gay marriage.

[Sister Alvear]

America has a poor choice for president...

[Cindy]

At this point I would say Mccain has lost my vote. Here he sits on the "Ellen" show with a lesbian and acts as if everythings fine. He thinks to sit down with Dictators is wrong because it gives them status. Well the same principal applies here in my book.

He just said to the Gays "I wish you all the happiness in the World". The context was she was going to marry her Lesbian lover. He has no judgment neither moral character. Its a shame. I was wanting to be able to vote for him.

Not only that he is busy tonight repudiating Preachers left and right. He will lose a lot of other believers votes by his actions tonight.

I agree.

[Sister Alvear]

and will you folks vote for obama?

[ChristopherHall]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I may disagree with a man, but I'm looking for sincerity when it comes to my vote. I'd rather vote for a sincere man who is liberal and honest about it than an insincere panderer who claims to be a conservative and is lying about it.

I hear Chuck Baldwin is running for the Constitution Party. He might be someone to consider, at least he's really a conservative.

[Michael The Disciple]

I would never vote for Obama. I sat the last Presidential election out. Unless something big happens and someone stands up strong against abortion and gay guess Ill set this one out too.

[Grasshopper]

I would never vote for Obama. I sat the last Presidential election out. Unless something big happens and someone stands up strong against abortion and gay guess Ill set this one out too.

Michael, there are other issues. Look at their health care plans. You'll have to live with one of them and the plans submitted by McCain and Obama will bring a radical change in health care. For example one of them will take away the tax credits claimed by businesses for insuring their employees. The tax credits are then redistributed to individual employees and they are expected to purchase their own insurance and for most the entire cost is on them because without the tax credit businesses have no incentive to offer an employer contribution because it would be too expensive. If one is older or has pre-existing conditions the tax credits will not be enough to afford coverage at today's rates. That means one plan would increase the number of uninsured, not insure more Americans. The other plan would be a health insurance program reflecting a cooperative effort between government and private insurers to give all Americans the plan available to Congress. The plan will be subsidized for those who cannot afford it. The plan will follow you wherever you go and you still choose your own doctor. Employers would have the choice of keeping their tax credits and continue insuring their employees as they are now...or they could chose to not insure their employees and pay a tax to provide the government plan, whichever is cheapest, but all employers will be required to choose one system or the other, with the exception of those who qualify to be classified as a small business.

Look at their policies on Iraq.

Look at their policies on energy and the economy.

There are a LOT of very important things we need to address in the next four years that are VERY important. It's not all about gays and abortion.

[jaxfam6]

At this point I would say Mccain has lost my vote. Here he sits on the "Ellen" show with a lesbian and acts as if everythings fine. He thinks to sit down with Dictators is wrong because it gives them status. Well the same principal applies here in my book.

He just said to the Gays "I wish you all the happiness in the World". The context was she was going to marry her Lesbian lover. He has no judgment neither moral character. Its a shame. I was wanting to be able to vote for him.

Not only that he is busy tonight repudiating Preachers left and right. He will lose a lot of other believers votes by his actions tonight.

So are you refrainng from voting or casting it in with the elitist crowd? Vote against him for someone with no experience or qualifications who uses charisma to win votes?

To many Apostolic/Pentecostals will follow after charisma just because it looks good and is wrapped in a pretty package with a bow on top. They vote like their churches; lots of spirit, little truth. No not all groups or churches but from the way I hear many talking that seems to be the pattern.

Don't lose faith, keep up the fight. I know we are looking at voting for the lesser of two evils and neither one seems to be good but I still say we need to vote our convictions not our wallet or for the one who speaks the best or looks the best.

CHANGE IS NOT ALWAYS BEST. Depends on where the change leads us. The kind of change I see from the democratic party will not be a good change I am afraid. Would have to say I wish we had a good Libertarian running he or she might just be able to steal it from the others this year.

[Michael The Disciple]

So are you refrainng from voting or casting it in with the elitist crowd? Vote against him for someone with no experience or qualifications who uses charisma to win votes?

Not voting.

[Michael The Disciple]

Michael, there are other issues. Look at their health care plans. You'll have to live with one of them and the plans submitted by McCain and Obama will bring a radical change in health care. For example one of them will take away the tax credits claimed by businesses for insuring their employees. The tax credits are then redistributed to individual employees and they are expected to purchase their own insurance and for most the entire cost is on them because without the tax credit businesses have no incentive to offer an employer contribution because it would be too expensive. If one is older or has pre-existing conditions the tax credits will not be enough to afford coverage at today's rates. That means one plan would increase the number of uninsured, not insure more Americans. The other plan would be a health insurance program reflecting a cooperative effort between government and private insurers to give all Americans the plan available to Congress. The plan will be subsidized for those who cannot afford it. The plan will follow you wherever you go and you still choose your own doctor. Employers would have the choice of keeping their tax credits and continue insuring their employees as they are now...or they could chose to not insure their employees and pay a tax to provide the government plan, whichever is cheapest, but all employers will be required to choose one system or the other, with the exception of those who qualify to be classified as a small business.

Look at their policies on Iraq.

Look at their policies on energy and the economy.

There are a LOT of very important things we need to address in the next four years that are VERY important. It's not all about gays and abortion.

I dont want to stand before Jesus Christ and confess I helped put a ruler over the nation who encourages the killing of babies and gives aid and comfort to sodomites. I dont believe he would like it.

[Grasshopper]

I dont want to stand before Jesus Christ and confess I helped put a ruler over the nation who encourages the killing of babies and gives aid and comfort to sodomites. I dont believe he would like it.

Bro, the vast majority of Democrats don't encourage abortion accept in very difficult circumstances. The Democratic position is just an alignment with the SCOTUS ruling that limits government restriction on the procedure. The responsibility for abortion rests entirely on the women who choose them.

And you may not know this, but "Sodomites" were male temple prostitutes in the OT, not just the run of the mill "gay" person.

If you ignore other issues, you may essentially through your family under the bus when it comes to health care. And if that happens, you allowed gays and abortion to rob your family of something they may desperately need.

I don't hate gays more than I love my family.

[DividedThigh]

i will study the issues, say a prayer and vote my heart, along with my wife on election day, that is all i can do, dt

[AmericanAngel]

i will study the issues, say a prayer and vote my heart, along with my wife on election day, that is all i can do, dt

I agree.



What I listened to is this video of Ellen and McCain wasn't McCain agreeing at all.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/05/ellen-vs-mccain.html

Comparied with how Dole answered some simular questions (which I personally didn't like how he said them, doesn't mean I don't agree with Dole), but McCain, (to me) answered Ellen's question, without hate or malice.

How we conduct ourselves and answer people is very important. It's like an on and off switch. Without love, we are just making noise, with love we are drawing all men (and women) to Him, by our charactor.
Ellen, herself was also respectful.
This is a biblical issue, not a political issues IMHO. I wanna know who can protect this country, and serve for my best intests aside the biblical issues.

The under current strength of a body of water (the church) is much stronger that all the waves atop (the world). What are we afraid of? In whom shall I fear?
If you don't vote, don't complain. I'm for McCain.

:bolt

[DividedThigh]

I agree.



What I listened to is this video of Ellen and McCain wasn't McCain agreeing at all.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/05/ellen-vs-mccain.html

Comparied with how Dole answered some simular questions (which I personally didn't like how he said them, doesn't mean I don't agree with Dole), but McCain, (to me) answered Ellen's question, without hate or malice.

How we conduct ourselves and answer people is very important. It's like an on and off switch. Without love, we are just making noise, with love we are drawing all men (and women) to Him, by our charactor.
Ellen, herself was also respectful.
This is a biblical issue, not a political issues IMHO. I wanna know who can protect this country, and serve for my best intests aside the biblical issues.

The under current strength of a body of water (the church) is much stronger that all the waves atop (the world). What are we afraid of? In whom shall I fear?
If you don't vote, don't complain. I'm for McCain.

:bolt

i understand sis, that is the way we feel too, dt

[Michael The Disciple]

I agree.



What I listened to is this video of Ellen and McCain wasn't McCain agreeing at all.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/05/ellen-vs-mccain.html

Comparied with how Dole answered some simular questions (which I personally didn't like how he said them, doesn't mean I don't agree with Dole), but McCain, (to me) answered Ellen's question, without hate or malice.

How we conduct ourselves and answer people is very important. It's like an on and off switch. Without love, we are just making noise, with love we are drawing all men (and women) to Him, by our charactor.
Ellen, herself was also respectful.
This is a biblical issue, not a political issues IMHO. I wanna know who can protect this country, and serve for my best intests aside the biblical issues.

The under current strength of a body of water (the church) is much stronger that all the waves atop (the world). What are we afraid of? In whom shall I fear?
If you don't vote, don't complain. I'm for McCain.

:bolt

Ellen was by no means respectful of any position but her own. She was simply putting it in Mccains face that Gays were every bit as desrving of being married to each other as men and women. She did not mention anything about respecting Mccains position at all that I saw.

And yes we are to show them love. One should not assume because I have a strong stand on this that I am hating them. If Mccain had said he wished her well as a person that would have been fine. Unless I am mistaken tho he wished her and her partner happiness concerning their relationship. At least thats the way it came across to me.

He would sit and talk to her and speak nicities but would not sit and talk with our national adversaries? To me gay is more destructive to America than Iran.

And this is written below the video picture:

If everyone can muster the courage and integrity of Ellen DeGeneres, we will win the vote in California. And we will deserve to. This really is a challenge to the gay community and our families and friends: this is the fight of our generation. What have you done to make it happen?

So yes its ELLEN who has courage and integrity! Mccain certainly came across as a whimp.

[The Kid]

Not voting.

Coward.

Keep in mind folks, Party trumps person. Say it again and again until it saturates the mush in your skull.

All together now...

PARTY...TRUMPS....PERSON.

[rgcraig]

Coward.

Keep in mind folks, Party trumps person. Say it again and again until it saturates the mush in your skull.

All together now...

PARTY...TRUMPS....PERSON.

Exactly!

Not voting is a vote for the other person.

[Pressing-On]

So yes its ELLEN who has courage and integrity! Mccain certainly came across as a whimp.
Sorry, I can't agree with this at all.

Here is what he said.

"My thoughts are that I think that people should be able to enter into legal agreements and I think that that is something we should encourage....we have a respectful disagreement on this issue..."

He is bold enough to tell her that he does not agree with same-sex marriage, which he stated twice, and that he, as President, can not and will not go against what the courts have set forth on the issue. He can't go against what the courts issue.

She knew exactly what he was saying and there was nothing in what he said that she could come back and crucify him with later in the campaign. He also, specifically, engaged in the "legal" because she said was going to have the ceremony "illegally" this summer, regardless.

He won that little altercation! :thumbsup

Now, in the case of California - who trumped the will of the people - that is a totally different story and hopefully this fall it will get rectified.

On another issue - judicial appointments - Obama would not be as careful to appoint men/women that hold to the letter of the law.

Therefore, I vote for McCain.

He did a marvelous job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :thumbsup

[AmericanAngel]

"So yes its ELLEN who has courage and integrity! Mccain certainly came across as a whimp."
.....
You're not seeing what I'm seeing...but that's ok Micheal. Sometimes humbleness can look whimpish.
I don't think McCain is a whimp...it took courage to renounce his endorsement(s).... Rod Parsley...not sure of yet that he did...not watching TV at the moment.
Today is today. Tomorrow may be different, I may not like something McCain says tomorrow, but this I know, my trust is in the Lord.

But, anyways, peace(and I really mean that) to you Brother.

[Grasshopper]

i will study the issues, say a prayer and vote my heart, along with my wife on election day, that is all i can do, dt

Amen dt. That's all any of us can do.

[Ferd]

I am going to look for the candiate that will most opress the poor, force chinese women into aborthion clinics and help the rich get more rich while taking jobs away from middle class people and giving them to Mexicans, and who will kill the most Iraqi babies.

[Grasshopper]

Sorry, I can't agree with this at all.

Here is what he said.

He is bold enough to tell her that he does not agree with same-sex marriage, which he stated twice, and that he, as President, can not and will not go against what the courts have set forth on the issue. He can't go against what the courts issue.

She knew exactly what he was saying and there was nothing in what he said that she could come back and crucify him with later in the campaign. He also, specifically, engaged in the "legal" because she said was going to have the ceremony "illegally" this summer, regardless.

He won that little altercation! :thumbsup

Good point. When it comes to Ellen’s show, I’m surprised he even showed up. But think about it…how would any of us respond in McCain’s shoes? McCain showed that he’s an excellent politician. I don’t think McCain is unlikable. I think the policies he embraces will be rejected by the American people when examined in detail and compared to current hardships we face as a nation. The issue of gay people wanting to get married or civil unions is small potatoes compared to the economy, health care, and the Iraq war. I think it’s his positions in these areas that will hurt him.

Now, in the case of California - who trumped the will of the people - that is a totally different story and hopefully this fall it will get rectified.

I have to disagree here. The court didn’t trump the will of the people. The constitution of the state of California trumped the will of the people. Here in Ohio the Ohio Supreme Court couldn’t rule against a ban on gay marriage voted in by the people because we amended our state constitution to specifically identify marriage as being between one man and one woman. Had California amended their constitution to define marriage the court’s hands would have been tied on the issue. Californians can overturn the court by voting in an amendment to their constitution supporting traditional marriage.

On another issue - judicial appointments - Obama would not be as careful to appoint men/women that hold to the letter of the law.

Neither party has appointed justices that uphold the “letter of the law”. On the SCOTUS 7 out of 9 were appointed by Republicans. In California I believe 5 out of 7 were appointed by Republicans. Judges are ruling on behalf of their interpretation of the “spirit of the law” and have been for nearly 150 years.

Therefore, I vote for McCain.

Other than the glossy issues (abortion, gay marriage, and the Iraq war) how well do you know McCain’s policies in areas such as taxation, health care, and energy while compared to the policies suggested by Obama? If McCain gets elected and his health care agenda is put in place, businesses will drop insuring their employees all over the country because he’ll take away the tax incentive they receive for doing so. You’ll get a $2,500 tax credit toward health insurance, but if you are older or have health problems you’ll face the current rates on the market without employer contributions meaning….you’re $2,500 will not cover your health insurance premiums and you and your family will go without health insurance. Also his policies will break up state standards on insurance in spite of the will of those residents, exposing many to higher premiums as we’ve seen in similar moves in the credit card industry after deregulation. This issue is BIG and will effect your family for the rest of your lives. Look at all the issues before you let a man win you over based on the big glossy “candy stick” issues.

He did a marvelous job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :thumbsup

Yes he did. He’s an excellent politician.

[Grasshopper]

I am going to look for the candiate that will most opress the poor, force chinese women into aborthion clinics and help the rich get more rich while taking jobs away from middle class people and giving them to Mexicans, and who will kill the most Iraqi babies.

Ladies and gentlemen....FERD JUST ANNOUNCED HIS CANDIDACY!!!! :bliss

Hey Ferd, if ya really run can I be your veep? I'll balance out the ticket and help you win those working class voters who are loosing their homes, jobs, serving sons and daughters, not to mention being cruched with rising costs in health insurance and gas.

I've got a great job policy you guys might like...we can employ every American by enlisting them in the military and sending them to Iraq. Then we can insure them through the Iraqi Ministry of Health in the national Iraqi health insurance system we're already paying for. :lol

[Ferd]

I would rather see obama working as a dog catcher than president. he is a communist and that is at his least offensive.

[Ferd]

Ladies and gentlemen....FERD JUST ANNOUNCED HIS CANDIDACY!!!! :bliss

Hey Ferd, if ya really run can I be your veep? I'll balance out the ticket and help you win those working class voters who are loosing their homes, jobs, and health insurance. I've got a great job policy you guys might like...we can employ every American by enlisting them in the military and sending them to Iraq. Then we can insure them through the Iraqi Ministry of Health in the national Iraqi health insurance system we're paying for. :lol

No.

[DividedThigh]

I am going to look for the candiate that will most opress the poor, force chinese women into aborthion clinics and help the rich get more rich while taking jobs away from middle class people and giving them to Mexicans, and who will kill the most Iraqi babies.

hey ferd get antipas to run, he will do those things, lol,dt:boxing:boxing

[Baron1710]

Ladies and gentlemen....FERD JUST ANNOUNCED HIS CANDIDACY!!!! :bliss

Hey Ferd, if ya really run can I be your veep? I'll balance out the ticket and help you win those working class voters who are loosing their homes, jobs, and health insurance. I've got a great job policy you guys might like...we can employ every American by enlisting them in the military and sending them to Iraq. Then we can insure them through the Iraqi Ministry of Health in the national Iraqi health insurance system we're paying for. :lol

Nobody gives a rip what the policy of the VP is, he has as much influence as say a poster on AFF.

[Ferd]

Nobody gives a rip what the policy of the VP is, he has as much influence as say a poster on AFF.

i can promise you this. if i did run my veep would not be someone looking for a handout from the government!

[DividedThigh]

so true, baron, my influence extends to my household a total dictatorship, i am king, it is good, lol,dt

[Ferd]

And I would NOT have rejected Rod Parsley!!!!!!


ROD IS RIGHT!

[Ferd]

We just need a tirumverate of me, Baron and DT!

we should rule the world!

[Baron1710]

so true, baron, my influence extends to my household a total dictatorship, i am king, it is good, lol,dt

After 15 years I have learned to be a benevolent dictator....HAHAHAHA

[DividedThigh]

We just need a tirumverate of me, Baron and DT!

we should rule the world!

i am with you bro, it will be a small country but we could rule, lol

[DividedThigh]

After 15 years I have learned to be a benevolent dictator....HAHAHAHA

gargle some gravel or something, bro, lol:boxing

[Grasshopper]

I would rather see obama working as a dog catcher than president. he is a communist and that is at his least offensive.

I don’t like communist dog catchers…they don’t let anyone own their own dog. ;)

Can you be specific about which of Obama’s policies are communist?

(And no, “Rush Limbaugh told me so.”, isn’t a valid answer.) lol

[Ferd]

i am with you bro, it will be a small country but we could rule, lol

I have a buddy here at work. we decided that what the world needed was a depopulation program.


we need to get the population down to about 500k. then things would be just fine.

[Baron1710]

We just need a tirumverate of me, Baron and DT!

we should rule the world!

Have you been listeining to Dennis Miller's radio show? Busting out the big words. Triumvirate - Well done.

[Grasshopper]

i can promise you this. if i did run my veep would not be someone looking for a handout from the government!

I blame the Lortab. :lol

[DividedThigh]

I have a buddy here at work. we decided that what the world needed was a depopulation program.


we need to get the population down to about 500k. then things would be just fine.

thats funny, can you start in ohio, lol,dt:boxing

[Ferd]

I don’t like communist dog catchers…they don’t let anyone own their own dog. ;)

Can you be specific about which of Obama’s policies are communist?

(And no, “Rush Limbaugh told me so.”, isn’t a valid answer.) lol

lets start with that stupid grin of his. he looks like the cat that just ate the canary. commie.


then lets move on to confiscatory taxation. anti-free trade, gov mandated healthcare,

obama is a commie idiot who thinks government is the answer to all that ails you.

and i dont care what you think of rush limbaugh, I would rather suffer his drug induce bad breath than five minutes of obama scatimonious grin.

[Ferd]

thats funny, can you start in ohio, lol,dt:boxing

i would have to start with all the elcected republicans... they have really messed things up.

[DividedThigh]

lol

[Grasshopper]

Good news dt, you're plan is already underway here dt...the jobs are gone and people are loosing health insurance left and right. Give it time.

[DividedThigh]

i would have to start with all the elcected republicans... they have really messed things up.

thats true, no guts no convictions, gone, dt:boxing

[Ferd]

Have you been listeining to Dennis Miller's radio show? Busting out the big words. Triumvirate - Well done.

wish we got DM here. alas we dont. did I spell that one right? LOL1

thats my problem. I know big words, I just dont know how to spell them!

[DividedThigh]

i smell chris hall, hiding behind his mask again, lol

[Ferd]

thats true, no guts no convictions, gone, dt:boxing

and egos that have gotten them in trouble. yall need a house cleaning like we do down here in texas.

[Cindy]

Now I know how Thad felt after he started a thread.................:D

[Baron1710]

wish we got DM here. alas we dont. did I spell that one right? LOL1

thats my problem. I know big words, I just dont know how to spell them!

One of the guys I work with buys the shows and I put them on my ipod. Can you imagine two conservative attorneys in one building in DC? we are well balanced by hundreds of liberals.

[DividedThigh]

and egos that have gotten them in trouble. yall need a house cleaning like we do down here in texas.

i agree ferd, no doubt, but ron paul can stay there, i dont abide the blame america first folks, lol

[Ferd]

i agree ferd, no doubt, but ron paul can stay there, i dont abide the blame america first folks, lol

like I said. we need a house cleaning here too.

our governer is an idiot. good thing he is term limited. all suit and no substance.

[Pressing-On]

Good point. When it comes to Ellen’s show, I’m surprised he even showed up. But think about it…how would any of us respond in McCain’s shoes? McCain showed that he’s an excellent politician. I don’t think McCain is unlikable. I think the policies he embraces will be rejected by the American people when examined in detail and compared to current hardships we face as a nation. The issue of gay people wanting to get married or civil unions is small potatoes compared to the economy, health care, and the Iraq war. I think it’s his positions in these areas that will hurt him.
Wasn't the number of Americans trusting Obama on foreign security issues at 18% or was it 24%. The American people trust McCain somewhere around 54% or a little higher.



I have to disagree here. The court didn’t trump the will of the people. The constitution of the state of California trumped the will of the people. Here in Ohio the Ohio Supreme Court couldn’t rule against a ban on gay marriage voted in by the people because we amended our state constitution to specifically identify marriage as being between one man and one woman. Had California amended their constitution to define marriage the court’s hands would have been tied on the issue. Californians can overturn the court by voting in an amendment to their constitution supporting traditional marriage.
Thank you. I stand corrected.



Neither party has appointed justices that uphold the “letter of the law”. On the SCOTUS 7 out of 9 were appointed by Republicans. In California I believe 5 out of 7 were appointed by Republicans. Judges are ruling on behalf of their interpretation of the “spirit of the law” and have been for nearly 150 years.
Perhaps not, but we can be assured of more liberal judges under a Democratic leadership, IMO.



Other than the glossy issues (abortion, gay marriage, and the Iraq war) how well do you know McCain’s policies in areas such as taxation, health care, and energy while compared to the policies suggested by Obama? If McCain gets elected and his health care agenda is put in place, businesses will drop insuring their employees all over the country because he’ll take away the tax incentive they receive for doing so. You’ll get a $2,500 tax credit toward health insurance, but if you are older or have health problems you’ll face the current rates on the market without employer contributions meaning….you’re $2,500 will not cover your health insurance premiums and you and your family will go without health insurance. Also his policies will break up state standards on insurance in spite of the will of those residents, exposing many to higher premiums as we’ve seen in similar moves in the credit card industry after deregulation. This issue is BIG and will effect your family for the rest of your lives. Look at all the issues before you let a man win you over based on the big glossy “candy stick” issues.
From what I have studied I see that, from statistics, many Americans are not insured because they are healthy and don't see the need. They know that any catastrophic issue would not be fully covered, for the most part, and so they don't spend the money.

On taxes - I agreed with McCain on not going with the Bush tax cuts until they put forth something more concise to control spending. They needed to do both.

Obama on taxes - Obama pledges to raise taxes on the top 10 percent of income earners, possibly the top 2%. He will give them enormous incentives, whatever those are, to alter their behaviour, so to show lower income. Since the top 1% of earners pay over 35% of all income taxes that would mean any decline in their income would be a steep decline in tax revenues. He doesn't seem to have any comprehension that raising taxes at the top dramatically lowers revenue coming in.

So, his deal is no better, IMO





Yes he did. He’s an excellent politician.
He is also an excellent American. I don't feel that about Obama.

[Ferd]

One of the guys I work with buys the shows and I put them on my ipod. Can you imagine two conservative attorneys in one building in DC? we are well balanced by hundreds of liberals.

conservitive lawyer in DC. You guys registered with the Endangered Species Act?

[DividedThigh]

sounds like a lot of them, no doubt, can we start on this forum with the pretenders, lol

[The Kid]

Sorry, I can't agree with this at all.

Here is what he said.



He is bold enough to tell her that he does not agree with same-sex marriage, which he stated twice, and that he, as President, can not and will not go against what the courts have set forth on the issue. He can't go against what the courts issue.

She knew exactly what he was saying and there was nothing in what he said that she could come back and crucify him with later in the campaign. He also, specifically, engaged in the "legal" because she said was going to have the ceremony "illegally" this summer, regardless.

He won that little altercation! :thumbsup

Now, in the case of California - who trumped the will of the people - that is a totally different story and hopefully this fall it will get rectified.

On another issue - judicial appointments - Obama would not be as careful to appoint men/women that hold to the letter of the law.

Therefore, I vote for McCain.

He did a marvelous job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :thumbsup

Johhny McCain is looking our way!


But seriously can you imagine the heat a presidential candidate would take having an ultracon UPC pastor as his spiritual mentor?

It would make James Wright look like the Mona Lisa. :slaphappy

[Ferd]

PO you DONT stand corrected on the judement in Stupidfornia!

those judges used a backwards view of the equal protection clause to say marriage must be extened to gays! it was a violation of 63% of the california voters will!

good grief.

[Pressing-On]

Johhny McCain is looking our way!


But seriously can you imagine the heat a presidential candidate would take having an ultracon UPC pastor as his spiritual mentor?

It would make James Wright look like the Mona Lisa. :slaphappy

Well, if he wasn't unhinged it would be way cool. I could trust AM not to be an idiot with it.

[DividedThigh]

Johhny McCain is looking our way!


But seriously can you imagine the heat a presidential candidate would take having an ultracon UPC pastor as his spiritual mentor?

It would make James Wright look like the Mona Lisa. :slaphappy

so true carp, dt:boxing

[Pressing-On]

PO you DONT stand corrected on the judement in Stupidfornia!

those judges used a backwards view of the equal protection clause to say marriage must be extened to gays! it was a violation of 63% of the california voters will!

good grief.
That's what I thought. Thanks. :thumbsup

[DividedThigh]

PO you DONT stand corrected on the judement in Stupidfornia!

those judges used a backwards view of the equal protection clause to say marriage must be extened to gays! it was a violation of 63% of the california voters will!

good grief.

right, :boxing:boxing:boxing

[Grasshopper]

lets start with that stupid grin of his. he looks like the cat that just ate the canary. commie.

Aw, Ferd, you know I don’t eat canaries…especially when I routinely eat your lunch.

then lets move on to confiscatory taxation. anti-free trade, gov mandated healthcare,

Actually under Obama’s plan the average American paying out $700 in hidden taxes (i.e. inflated health care costs) could find them selves only paying $400 to $500 less than they’re paying now.

There’s no freedom in free trade unless it’s fair. Ask American workers loosing their jobs as factories move to Mexico and manufacturing moves to China.

The “government health care” isn’t “government” at all. It’s through private insurers and Americans can opt into plans like those held by our elected officials. The only mandate is that all must be covered. If you’re an employer you have a choice; you can continue to insure employees in the plans you offer now…or you can choose not to insure employees but pay into the insurance system that will insure your employees…whichever will be cheapest for you. The mandate is to make sure that all Americans are covered because we’re tired of paying for LAZY bums who don’t have health insurance and don’t pay their bills and thereby drive our premiums higher and higher each year. No free rides anymore. Everyone pays into the system and everyone receives coverage.

obama is a commie idiot who thinks government is the answer to all that ails you.

I don’t think so. I think the people have tried the free market approach and more and more are loosing their insurance due to ever rising costs (wages don’t change to match cost of living anymore) while insurance companies make out like bandits. It’s like eating a restaurant and they charge your credit card to pay for nearly 30% of the other patrons. So you call the police (the government) and demand that everyone pays their own bills. No free rides. Time for everyone to pay into the system.

and i dont care what you think of rush limbaugh, I would rather suffer his drug induce bad breath than five minutes of obama scatimonious grin.

What does your Lortab prescription cost? :lol Because nothing you mentioned is “communist”.

[Tina]

Aw, Ferd, you know I don’t eat canaries…especially when I routinely eat your lunch.





He was talking about OBAMA's grin, not yours. LOL

[vrblackwell]

People, the biggest decision the next president will make is the appointment of one, possibly two supreme court justices. McCain is not a true conservative and I disagree with him on many issues. However, he has stood strong against abortion and will appoint strong conservative justices in the order of Scalia and Roberts.

This issue alone should make you go out in November, hold your nose and pull the lever for John McCain.

[Grasshopper]

He was talking about OBAMA's grin, not yours. LOL

lololol

I thought he was talking about my little " ;) " :toofunny

[DividedThigh]

People, the biggest decision the next president will make is the appointment of one, possibly two supreme court justices. McCain is not a true conservative and I disagree with him on many issues. However, he has stood strong against abortion and will appoint strong conservative justices in the order of Scalia and Roberts.

This issue alone should make you go out in November, hold your nose and pull the lever for John McCain.

that is the conclusion we have come to in our house, for that reason, dt

[Pressing-On]

People, the biggest decision the next president will make is the appointment of one, possibly two supreme court justices. McCain is not a true conservative and I disagree with him on many issues. However, he has stood strong against abortion and will appoint strong conservative justices in the order of Scalia and Roberts.

This issue alone should make you go out in November, hold your nose and pull the lever for John McCain.

I agree, Verlon. I also believe that his percentages will go up when he picks his VP. I'm thinking it's going to be Crist.

Did you read about Romney put together a PAC to get the Republicans back on track? They are meeting in Arizona at McCain's place to discuss all of that. Crist will also be present.

Excellent strategy and timing.

[Grasshopper]

People, the biggest decision the next president will make is the appointment of one, possibly two supreme court justices. McCain is not a true conservative and I disagree with him on many issues. However, he has stood strong against abortion and will appoint strong conservative justices in the order of Scalia and Roberts.

This issue alone should make you go out in November, hold your nose and pull the lever for John McCain.

McCain could appoint a conservative justice in the order of Scalia and Roberts and guess what….nothing’s going to change in regards to abortion. But I assure you that corporate power will increase. Someday corporations might get the right to fire you if you place a political yard sign in your yard that they don’t like. They already have the right to fire employees for smoking in their own homes. If I worked for one of those companies…I’d buy a nice pipe and some mild cherry tobacco and then relax with a fine smoke on Friday nights after dinner. LOL

Study up on "corporate personhood" and how corporations are pressing to have more rights than you and I do.

[Ferd]

Aw, Ferd, you know I don’t eat canaries…especially when I routinely eat your lunch.



Actually under Obama’s plan the average American paying out $700 in hidden taxes (i.e. inflated health care costs) could find them selves only paying $400 to $500 less than they’re paying now.

There’s no freedom in free trade unless it’s fair. Ask American workers loosing their jobs as factories move to Mexico and manufacturing moves to China.

The “government health care” isn’t “government” at all. It’s through private insurers and Americans can opt into plans like those held by our elected officials. The only mandate is that all must be covered. If you’re an employer you have a choice; you can continue to insure employees in the plans you offer now…or you can choose not to insure employees but pay into the insurance system that will insure your employees…whichever will be cheapest for you. The mandate is to make sure that all Americans are covered because we’re tired of paying for LAZY bums who don’t have health insurance and don’t pay their bills and thereby drive our premiums higher and higher each year. No free rides anymore. Everyone pays into the system and everyone receives coverage.



I don’t think so. I think the people have tried the free market approach and more and more are loosing their insurance due to ever rising costs (wages don’t change to match cost of living anymore) while insurance companies make out like bandits. It’s like eating a restaurant and they charge your credit card to pay for nearly 30% of the other patrons. So you call the police (the government) and demand that everyone pays their own bills. No free rides. Time for everyone to pay into the system.



What does your Lortab prescription cost? :lol Because nothing you mentioned is “communist”.


shorty, the only people here that think you have eaten my lunch are Chris Hall, Antipas and Grasshopper.


which reminds me of my favorite poem

Roses are red
Violets are blue
I’m schizophrenic
And so am I
And so am I

[Pressing-On]

McCain could appoint a conservative justice in the order of Scalia and Roberts and guess what….nothing’s going to change in regards to abortion. But I assure you that corporate power will increase. Someday corporations might get the right to fire you if you place a political yard sign in your yard that they don’t like. They already have the right to fire employees for smoking in their own homes. If I worked for one of those companies…I’d buy a nice pipe and some mild cherry tobacco and relax with a fine smoke on Friday nights after dinner. LOL

Study up on "corporate personhood" and how corporations are pressing to have more rights than you and I do.
I think abortion is a moral issue that the courts cannot - ever - resolve.

[Pressing-On]

Romney Forms 'Free and Strong America PAC' To Help Elect Conservative Republicans

Free and Strong America PAC will support officeholders and candidates who are dedicated to advancing social, fiscal and foreign policies that will strengthen America at this critical time in the nation’s history. The guiding focus will be on the core principles that have built and nurtured America since its founding – uncompromised military strength, a belief in the power of free markets and that a competitive America is one where taxes are low and government is small, an emphasis on strong families and a federalist approach to government that leaves decision-making as close to the people as possible.

http://blog.4president.org/2008/2008/05/romney-forms-free-and-strong-america-pac-to-help-elect-conservative-republicans.html

[DividedThigh]

shorty, the only people here that think you have eaten my lunch are Chris Hall, Antipas and Grasshopper.


which reminds me of my favorite poem

Roses are red
Violets are blue
I’m schizophrenic
And so am I
And so am I

oh come on now, that is funny, :toofunny:toofunny:boxing

[Grasshopper]

shorty, the only people here that think you have eaten my lunch are Chris Hall, Antipas and Grasshopper.


which reminds me of my favorite poem

Roses are red
Violets are blue
I’m schizophrenic
And so am I
And so am I

LOL That's a good one. Do you have more of those things?

[DividedThigh]

McCain could appoint a conservative justice in the order of Scalia and Roberts and guess what….nothing’s going to change in regards to abortion. But I assure you that corporate power will increase. Someday corporations might get the right to fire you if you place a political yard sign in your yard that they don’t like. They already have the right to fire employees for smoking in their own homes. If I worked for one of those companies…I’d buy a nice pipe and some mild cherry tobacco and then relax with a fine smoke on Friday nights after dinner. LOL

Study up on "corporate personhood" and how corporations are pressing to have more rights than you and I do.

smoking is a sin dude, didnt you say harming your body is a sin, and besides there are times i wonder what you are smoking, lol

[Grasshopper]

smoking is a sin dude, didnt you say harming your body is a sin, and besides there are times i wonder what you are smoking, lol

I'm not being serious, I'm just showing contempt for companies that try to govern their employees lives when off the clock.

[Baron1710]

McCain could appoint a conservative justice in the order of Scalia and Roberts and guess what….nothing’s going to change in regards to abortion. But I assure you that corporate power will increase. Someday corporations might get the right to fire you if you place a political yard sign in your yard that they don’t like. They already have the right to fire employees for smoking in their own homes. If I worked for one of those companies…I’d buy a nice pipe and some mild cherry tobacco and then relax with a fine smoke on Friday nights after dinner. LOL

Study up on "corporate personhood" and how corporations are pressing to have more rights than you and I do.

Why wait to go to work for one of those companies? If the prince of preachers was still around he might join you with a cigar.

[Ferd]

LOL That's a good one. Do you have more of those things?

there is a particular line from a southern anthem that applies

"I'd love to spit some beachnut in that dudes eye!"

[The Kid]

People, the biggest decision the next president will make is the appointment of one, possibly two supreme court justices. McCain is not a true conservative and I disagree with him on many issues. However, he has stood strong against abortion and will appoint strong conservative justices in the order of Scalia and Roberts.

This issue alone should make you go out in November, hold your nose and pull the lever for John McCain.

Absolutely true, great post. We need to make sure that bra buring radical Ginsburg is not replaced by some activist 1960's peace-toad, civil rights NAACP soapbox, in your face type liberal judge!

I wish all protesting non-voters would keep in mind that...everyone together now...

PARTY TRUMPS PERSON!!!

[Baron1710]

I'm not being serious, I'm just showing contempt for companies that try to govern their employees lives when off the clock.

Some police departments have no smoking policies, and it applies both on and off work.

[Baron1710]

there is a particular line from a southern anthem that applies

"I'd love to spit some beachnut in that dudes eye!"

I like the next line better...

"and shoot him with my old .45"

[DividedThigh]

there is a particular line from a southern anthem that applies

"I'd love to spit some beachnut in that dudes eye!"

that is nasty but would be effective, lol,dt:boxing

[Ferd]

Why wait to go to work for one of those companies? If the prince of preachers was still around he might join you with a cigar.

LOL! Old grass hopper is a bureaucrat. he makes his living off the taxpayers of the great state of ohio.

interesting note, this is quite similar to what doctors used to try to cure George Washington....alas, instead of curing him, it killed him.

[vrblackwell]

McCain could appoint a conservative justice in the order of Scalia and Roberts and guess what….nothing’s going to change in regards to abortion. But I assure you that corporate power will increase. Someday corporations might get the right to fire you if you place a political yard sign in your yard that they don’t like. They already have the right to fire employees for smoking in their own homes. If I worked for one of those companies…I’d buy a nice pipe and some mild cherry tobacco and then relax with a fine smoke on Friday nights after dinner. LOL

Study up on "corporate personhood" and how corporations are pressing to have more rights than you and I do.

Wrong!!

[Grasshopper]

Romney…Governor Romney…was Governor of Massachusetts. Now that’s a man you can trust to hold back the rising tide in gay marriage, abortion, and the terrible evil of universal health care plans. :toofunny

[The Kid]

I like the next line better...

"and shoot him with my old .45"

You just alerted the Office of Homeland safety, the NSA, and FBI.

Expect a knock at your door in...5...4..3...2

[DividedThigh]

LOL! Old grass hopper is a bureaucrat. he makes his living off the taxpayers of the great state of ohio.

interesting note, this is quite similar to what doctors used to try to cure George Washington....alas, instead of curing him, it killed him.

imagine that grasshoppa,living off the tax payers, never woulda thunk it, dt

[Pressing-On]

Absolutely true, great post. We need to make sure that bra buring radical Ginsburg is not replaced by some activist 1960's peace-toad, civil rights NAACP soapbox, in your face type liberal judge!

I wish all protesting non-voters would keep in mind that...everyone together now...

PARTY TRUMPS PERSON!!!

Carpenter! You have to read this comment by Dennis Miller on Hillary using a sexism charge on this campaign! Hilarious!!!!!! :toofunny:toofunny

INGRAHAM: And Dennis, the other story I have to get your take on is the sexism charge that Hillary and Ferraro are making. Hillary was describing her struggle — I believe it was earlier today or yesterday — like the struggle of oppressed women around the world and the Middle East and "I'm with them, and I'm enduring this." What do you make of this?

MILLER: First off, I think Geraldine Ferraro and Eleanor Clift have to get a small business loan and get their hair together. Because there's no reason a woman has to — there's no reason a woman has to look like David McCallum from "Man from U.N.C.L.E."

INGRAHAM: Brutal. I disassociate myself from hair comments, given my hair problems.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,357265,00.html

:toofunny:toofunny:toofunny:toofunny

[vrblackwell]

I'm not being serious, I'm just showing contempt for companies that try to govern their employees lives when off the clock.

I really can't say how I feel about this without thinking it through completly. But if I were having to pay the majority of someones healthcare I would try and keep them from smoking as well.

[The Kid]

McCain could appoint a conservative justice in the order of Scalia and Roberts and guess what….nothing’s going to change in regards to abortion. But I assure you that corporate power will increase. Someday corporations might get the right to fire you if you place a political yard sign in your yard that they don’t like. They already have the right to fire employees for smoking in their own homes. If I worked for one of those companies…I’d buy a nice pipe and some mild cherry tobacco and then relax with a fine smoke on Friday nights after dinner. LOL

Study up on "corporate personhood" and how corporations are pressing to have more rights than you and I do.

I knew a chicken who when he got bopped on the head by an acorn, thereafter was convinced that the sky was falling...know him?

You forget a bout a wee little thing called the power of the market.

Sometimes it is worth it, sometimes it is not. That is why small business is the backbone of the United States.

[Ferd]

I like the next line better...

"and shoot him with my old .45"

well.... I was being nice....


songs have some interesting things to say...

like the old Motly Crue tome
Dont go away mad, just go away.

[Baron1710]

I'm not being serious, I'm just showing contempt for companies that try to govern their employees lives when off the clock.

Which company does this?

[DividedThigh]

I really can't say how I feel about this without thinking it through completly. But if I were having to pay the majority of someones healthcare I would try and keep them from smoking as well.

cant argue with good stewardship of our health too, course the govt cant completely ban smoking since they tax it to death, good grief, by the way , never smoked, never will, detest the stuff, dt

[The Kid]

Which company does this?

It is not A company it is THE whole industrial complex!

:slaphappy

[DividedThigh]

:boxing:toofunnywell.... I was being nice....


songs have some interesting things to say...

like the old Motly Crue tome
Dont go away mad, just go away.

:boxing or thank god and greyhound hes gone, lol

[Grasshopper]

Some police departments have no smoking policies, and it applies both on and off work.

Do you believe that is an encroachment on personal liberty of law abiding citizens or do you believe it broadens the liberties of law abiding citizens?

[Ferd]

I knew a chicken who when he got bopped on the head by an acorn, thereafter was convinced that the sky was falling...know him?

You forget a bout a wee little thing called the power of the market.

Sometimes it is worth it, sometimes it is not. That is why small business is the backbone of the United States.

sometimes I think our fridne is a cross between chicken little and Eor

[Ferd]

Which company does this?

LOL! the United States Government as run by the democrat party!

[DividedThigh]

your killin me ferd, lol, thats entertainment, dt

[Baron1710]

Do you believe that is an encroachment on personal liberty of law abiding citizens or do you believe it broadens the liberties of law abiding citizens?

I completely disagree with it, but then the same people that propose giving women the right to choose won't allow someone to light up. My pastor used to say, "Smoking won't send you to hell, just make you smell like you been there."

[DividedThigh]

and get you there sooner, baron my friend, dt

[Baron1710]

Still haven't heard which corp forbids their employees from smoking in their homes.

[vrblackwell]

cant argue with good stewardship of our health too, course the govt cant completely ban smoking since they tax it to death, good grief, by the way , never smoked, never will, detest the stuff, dt

I'm not for the government controlling anything. If I own a company and pay for someones health care, I expect them act responsibly with their body. They do not have to work for me if they do not wish.

I am in the insurance business, we penalize people who smoke and do not take care of themselves. They are a high risk.

If I am paying their health care and they smoke, it stands to reason that they are costing me more money.

[Ferd]

Someone with some sense explain to me the differnence between a business that provides health insurance telling people they cannot smoke and the States and the UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT taxing tobacco at extremely high levels?

please...anybody? anybody?

[DividedThigh]

I'm not for the government controlling anything. If I own a company and pay for someones health care, I expect them act responsibly with their body. They do not have to work for me if they do not wish.

I am in the insurance business, we penalize people who smoke and do not take care of themselves. They are a high risk.

If I am paying their health care and they smoke, it stands to reason that they are costing me more money.

agreed bro, no doubt, dt

[DividedThigh]

Someone with some sense explain to me the differnence between a business that provides health insurance telling people they cannot smoke and the States and the UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT taxing tobacco at extremely high levels?

please...anybody? anybody?

dont hold your breath bro, nobody knows that, lol

[Pressing-On]

Carpenter! You have to read this comment by Dennis Miller on Hillary using a sexism charge on this campaign! Hilarious!!!!!! :toofunny:toofunny

INGRAHAM: And Dennis, the other story I have to get your take on is the sexism charge that Hillary and Ferraro are making. Hillary was describing her struggle — I believe it was earlier today or yesterday — like the struggle of oppressed women around the world and the Middle East and "I'm with them, and I'm enduring this." What do you make of this?

MILLER: First off, I think Geraldine Ferraro and Eleanor Clift have to get a small business loan and get their hair together. Because there's no reason a woman has to — there's no reason a woman has to look like David McCallum from "Man from U.N.C.L.E."

INGRAHAM: Brutal. I disassociate myself from hair comments, given my hair problems.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,357265,00.html

:toofunny:toofunny:toofunny:toofunny

Carpenter!!!! Pay attention!!! I love this clip!!!

[SDG]

Lesson:

When preaching stick to the Word .... avoid politics.

[Grasshopper]

LOL! Old grass hopper is a bureaucrat. he makes his living off the taxpayers of the great state of ohio.

I manage the accounts payable accounts receivable for a wastewater treatment plant. We could close up shop and allow you to put up with your own…well. *ehem* You guys should serve up a lot of it. Hehehe

Note to the reader: Civil servants and soldiers who serve full time are government employees who perform a duty and service to the city, state, and nation. Comments like this are insinuating that soldiers proudly serving our country in Iraq and other civil servants here on the home front are lazy bums living off the government in spite of our duty or service we provide. That should cause us all pause to reconsider blantant misrepresentation of reality and disrespect for those serving at home and abroad as it is used to slander those who merely disagree.

[Baron1710]

Someone with some sense explain to me the differnence between a business that provides health insurance telling people they cannot smoke and the States and the UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT taxing tobacco at extremely high levels?

please...anybody? anybody?

compare and contrast....

Both penalize you for smoking. Insurance companies charge higher rates to smokers, cities and states are looking to criminalize tobacco and legalize mary jane.

[vrblackwell]

agreed bro, no doubt, dt

If I own a company, by the constitution, I should be allowed to make what ever rules I desire. If you want to work for me, then you abide by those rules. The choice is yours, no one is making you work for me. If you want to make the rules, start your own company.

I am against taxes that are not allowed by the people. We must have taxes in order to have a strong military for protection and in order to have infrastructure.

I am against all income taxes. They are against our constitution. I am for sales taxes that have been levied by the people (voted on). In this case, I do not have to pay taxes if I choose. I do not have to buy anything, that's my choice.

[DividedThigh]

I manage the accounts payable accounts receivable for a wastewater treatment plant. We could close up shop and allow you to put up with your own…well. *ehem* You guys should serve up a lot of it. Hehehe

Note to the reader: Civil servants and soldiers who serve full time are government employees who perform a duty and service to the city, state, and nation. Comments like this are insinuating that soldiers proudly serving our country in Iraq and other civil servants here on the home front are lazy bums living off the government in spite of our duty or service we provide. That should cause us all pause to reconsider blantant misrepresentation of reality and disrespect for those serving at home and abroad as it is used to slander those who merely disagree.

note to the reader, ferd was referrring to one civil grasshopper, not all of them, trying to make a connection between his rantings and the service of our troops over seas is a disgrace and blatant disrespect of there noble work, amen

[Ferd]

I manage the accounts payable accounts receivable for a wastewater treatment plant. We could close up shop and allow you to put up with your own…well. *ehem* You guys should serve up a lot of it. Hehehe

Note to the reader: Civil servants and soldiers who serve full time are government employees who perform a duty and service to the city, state, and nation. Comments like this are insinuating that soldiers proudly serving our country in Iraq and other civil servants here on the home front are lazy bums living off the government in spite of our duty or service we provide. That should cause us all pause to reconsider blantant misrepresentation of reality and disrespect for those serving at home and abroad as it is used to slander those who merely disagree.

note to reader. the grasshopper makes yet another false and mighty leap.

at least he labors where he ought.

[Rico]

I manage the accounts payable accounts receivable for a wastewater treatment plant. We could close up shop and allow you to put up with your own…well. *ehem* You guys should serve up a lot of it. Hehehe

Note to the reader: Civil servants and soldiers who serve full time are government employees who perform a duty and service to the city, state, and nation. Comments like this are insinuating that soldiers proudly serving our country in Iraq and other civil servants here on the home front are lazy bums living off the government in spite of our duty or service we provide. That should cause us all pause to reconsider blantant misrepresentation of reality and disrespect for those serving at home and abroad as it is used to slander those who merely disagree.

Know what? Don't even try to put yourself in the same category as the soldiers. YOU AIN"T EVEN CLOSE!

[DividedThigh]

If I own a company, by the constitution, I should be allowed to make what ever rules I desire. If you want to work for me, then you abide by those rules. The choice is yours, no one is making you work for me. If you want to make the rules, start your own company.

I am against taxes that are not allowed by the people. We must have taxes in order to have a strong military for protection and in order to have infrastructure.

I am against all income taxes. They are against our constitution. I am for sales taxes that have been levied by the people (voted on). In this case, I do not have to pay taxes if I choose. I do not have to buy anything, that's my choice.

so you like the fair tax, deal which is a sales tax, i like it, wish it had a chance, dt

[Ferd]

note to the reader, ferd was referrring to one civil grasshopper, not all of them, trying to make a connection between his rantings and the service of our troops over seas is a disgrace and blatant disrespect of there noble work, amen

The fact that I served in the military and am a veteran of Desert Storm, provides a clear understanding of my view of the military and the difference between a military man and a bureaucrat.

[Ferd]

so you like the fair tax, deal which is a sales tax, i like it, wish it had a chance, dt

I am FOR Fair tax and Free Trade!

[DividedThigh]

why yes, yes it does, mr ferd, with all respect of course, dt

[vrblackwell]

so you like the fair tax, deal which is a sales tax, i like it, wish it had a chance, dt

Yes, I am a proponet of the fair tax. A bill will soon be voted on in Mo to do away with state income taxes and go to the fair tax.

[DividedThigh]

I am FOR Fair tax and Free Trade!

i wish, then the whiners could just shut up about taxing the rich, and all that garbage, they didnt get there money by spending it, so chances are the libs will never let the fair tax fly, to bad, dt

[DividedThigh]

Yes, I am a proponet of the fair tax. A bill will soon be voted on in Mo to do away with state income taxes and go to the fair tax.

that is great, i have fam in st charles area, and several clients in st louis, dt

[Cindy]

I don't understand why insurance companies won't pay for birth control but will pay the much higher cost of having a baby.

[DividedThigh]

i dont know about all of them cindy but our insurance company pays for it, dt

[Cindy]

i dont know about all of them cindy but our insurance company pays for it, dt

Maybe they do now, but when I was of child bearing age they didn't. But probably if they had I wouldn't have had my wonderful children. I finally had permanent birth control after my 9th.

[DividedThigh]

Maybe they do now, but when I was of child bearing age they didn't. But probably if they had I wouldn't have had my wonderful children. I finally had permanent birth control after my 9th.

wow, god bless you sis, you are cool, my mom had 8, i was third, thank god she didnt abort me, dt

[Grasshopper]

I completely disagree with it, but then the same people that propose giving women the right to choose won't allow someone to light up. My pastor used to say, "Smoking won't send you to hell, just make you smell like you been there."

Here in Ohio it was largely the Republicans who pushed through and passed the smoking ban.

But in regards to abortion…

In your opinion, who’s worse, those who believe the government can’t force women to give birth and take a position of Choice…or the women who actually choose to murder their babies?

[Grasshopper]

Still haven't heard which corp forbids their employees from smoking in their homes.

Well, Reynolds & Reynolds (where my wife works) and DP&L (Dayton Power & Light). I’m sure you could find some in your neck of the woods too.

[Grasshopper]

I'm not for the government controlling anything. If I own a company and pay for someones health care, I expect them act responsibly with their body. They do not have to work for me if they do not wish.

If you owned a company you could possibly threaten the job of a father of three if you couldn’t control what he does in the privacy of his own home? It would make more sense for you to pay less of a contribution toward his health insurance….not fire him.

I am in the insurance business, we penalize people who smoke and do not take care of themselves. They are a high risk.

In our current system that makes sense. High risk is high risk.

If I am paying their health care and they smoke, it stands to reason that they are costing me more money.

So again, money trumps personal liberty. Dude, if you can control their behavior while they’re at home…you should be paying them 24/7.

[Grasshopper]

Someone with some sense explain to me the differnence between a business that provides health insurance telling people they cannot smoke and the States and the UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT taxing tobacco at extremely high levels?

please...anybody? anybody?

Smokers cost not only insurance companies but also the state.

[Grasshopper]

If I own a company, by the constitution, I should be allowed to make what ever rules I desire. If you want to work for me, then you abide by those rules. The choice is yours, no one is making you work for me. If you want to make the rules, start your own company.

If you can tell me how to live while at home…you better be paying me while I’m watching NBA on TV.

I am against taxes that are not allowed by the people. We must have taxes in order to have a strong military for protection and in order to have infrastructure.

That makes sense.

I am against all income taxes. They are against our constitution.

Who told you that the income tax is against the Constitution? The 16th Amendment of my Constitution states:

Amendment XVI
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

Now I think there might be a decent case made for how this shouldn’t have become an Amendment…but like it or not…it’s now part of the Constitution. Of course…this is what can happen when you go around Amending the Constitution. Handle with care.

I am for sales taxes that have been levied by the people (voted on). In this case, I do not have to pay taxes if I choose. I do not have to buy anything, that's my choice.

The idea of a national sales tax is a joke. Look at FactCheck on it.

[Ferd]

communism is not dead.

[Grasshopper]

Yes, I am a proponet of the fair tax. A bill will soon be voted on in Mo to do away with state income taxes and go to the fair tax.

It would be nice to see how it works on the state level. But here’s a prediction. If the state constitution allows the state to collect income taxes you’ll need to do two things. You’ll have to pass the state sales tax and then amend the state constitution. I predict…the will push through the state sales tax…but the amendment effort will fail. And you’ll end up with both a state sales tax and an income tax. :lol

[Ferd]

Smokers cost not only insurance companies but also the state.

smokers also cost businesses who pay for their insurance but you are against a business but not the state?


which i understand completly. your ilk trust the state and hate the business.

[Ferd]

im going to have to shoot myself. grass hopper said something that aint wrong.

the constitution does in fact allow for income tax. egads.

[DividedThigh]

democrats are the most controlling people in the world, they must keep the masses dependent on them to procure there votes, dt

[Ferd]

democrats are the most controlling people in the world, they must keep the masses dependent on them to procure there votes, dt

Anyone who would ever consider voting for a democrat ought to be forced to watch 5 hours of Henry Waxman in commettee meetings.

it will cure that sickness!

[DividedThigh]

Anyone who would ever consider voting for a democrat ought to be forced to watch 5 hours of Henry Waxman in commettee meetings.

it will cure that sickness!

eww, i think i am gonna hurl, i wont do it, vote dem or watche that buffoon, dt:toofunny

[Ferd]

eww, i think i am gonna hurl, i wont do it, vote dem or watche that buffoon, dt:toofunny

what you aint a fan of Nosehair man?

[DividedThigh]

what you aint a fan of Nosehair man?

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwwwwww, that is grosss:toofunny

[Grasshopper]

Know what? Don't even try to put yourself in the same category as the soldiers. YOU AIN"T EVEN CLOSE!

Bro, I served 8 years as a 91B10 Combat Medical Specialist assigned to HHT/207TH Armored Cav. And yes...now I have a government job and continue to serve my community. Ferd's trying to make me sound like some bumb living off tax payer dollars is what's uncalled for.

[Ferd]

Bro, I served 8 years as a 91B10 Combat Medical Specialist assigned to HHT/207TH Armored Cav. And yes...now I have a government job and continue to serve my community. Ferd's trying to make me sound like some bumb living off tax payer dollars is what's uncalled for.

I also bet you find Henry Waxman quite riveting

[Ferd]

Bumb is your word.

a thesaurus might offer "loser" as an alternative.

However, my use of that term has been retracted by managment.

please note, i do not in any way question the wisdom of management.

[The Kid]

I think Democrats (includes liberals) are pretty stupid. They stand up and scream on their soapbox of the rich not paying their fair share, and they end up hitting the middle class square in the mouth.

After all, when taxes go UP for the small business owner, the middle and lower classes lose their jobs...then the liberals vote for tax increases in order for social programs to take care of the people those evil rich business owners fired.

Plain and simple, political, fiscal, and social Liberals are morons.

[Ferd]

I think Democrats (includes liberals) are pretty stupid. They stand up and scream on their soapbox of the rich not paying their fair share, and they end up hitting the middle class square in the mouth.

After all, when taxes go UP for the small business owner, the middle and lower classes lose their jobs...then the liberals vote for tax increases in order for social programs to take care of the people those evil rich business owners fired.

Plain and simple, political, fiscal, and social Liberals are morons.

from a liberal politicians perspective it is quite smart.

by doing this, they force more people into poverty and poor people must vote for those that will give them more handouts.

causing poverty, extending poverty and supporting poverty are keys to liberalims success.

[The Kid]

from a liberal politicians perspective it is quite smart.

by doing this, they force more people into poverty and poor people must vote for those that will give them more handouts.

causing poverty, extending poverty and supporting poverty are keys to liberalims success.

Sure, but it is kind of scary to call impoverished people stupid for buying into the socialistic mindset...some of them might take issue, despite their complaints that the "Man" is holding them down!

:slaphappy

[Grasshopper]

smokers also cost businesses who pay for their insurance but you are against a business but not the state?

which i understand completly. your ilk trust the state and hate the business.

I think you’re paranoid. I don’t think it’s right for the state to ban tobacco use either.

Here’s a thought that might blow your mind…I personally don’t believe businesses should be involved in the provision of health insurance at all. Why make businesses responsible for that kind of expense??? My personal view is that everyone should pay into a single payer national health insurance program where insurance premiums are negotiated with private insurers and supplemented by the tax revenues paid into the system pay those who benefit from it. Everyone should have to pay something toward their health insurance. Right now if I didn’t have insurance I could go to the ER and get treatment. They would bill me. I could simply refuse to pay. Now, consider that there are over 10 million or more of me…that would fuel the rise in health care cost as providers increased costs to cover the loss. As health care costs rise…insurers have to raise premiums to cover those costs. Now YOU the business owner is found stuck paying more or handing more of that cost to the backs of your hard working employees. I say take you and your business out of the equation and let you focus on business. Negotiate rates with companies and then have everyone pay a lower negotiated premium and taxes into the system so all are covered. As providers are actually paid in a timely manner the cost of healthcare would drop exponentially. Not to mention a national medical records database would reduce health care costs 30%.

National health insurance would make health insurance an issue between the voters and their elected representatives. As a business man…you don’t even have to worry about nothing but business.

[Grasshopper]

I also bet you find Henry Waxman quite riveting

lol

Not hardly.

[Grasshopper]

Bumb is your word.

a thesaurus might offer "loser" as an alternative.

However, my use of that term has been retracted by managment.

please note, i do not in any way question the wisdom of management.

I'm a "looser" for disagreeing....

You make a great example of what a Conservative truly is.

[Ferd]

I think you’re paranoid. I don’t think it’s right for the state to ban tobacco use either.

Here’s a thought that might blow your mind…I personally don’t believe businesses should be involved in the provision of health insurance at all. Why make businesses responsible for that kind of expense??? My personal view is that everyone should pay into a single payer national health insurance program where insurance premiums are negotiated with private insurers and supplemented by the tax revenues paid into the system pay those who benefit from it. Everyone should have to pay something toward their health insurance. Right now if I didn’t have insurance I could go to the ER and get treatment. They would bill me. I could simply refuse to pay. Now, consider that there are over 10 million or more of me…that would fuel the rise in health care cost as providers increased costs to cover the loss. As health care costs rise…insurers have to raise premiums to cover those costs. Now YOU the business owner is found stuck paying more or handing more of that cost to the backs of your hard working employees. I say take you and your business out of the equation and let you focus on business. Negotiate rates with companies and then have everyone pay a lower negotiated premium and taxes into the system so all are covered. As providers are actually paid in a timely manner the cost of healthcare would drop exponentially. Not to mention a national medical records database would reduce health care costs 30%.

National health insurance would make health insurance an issue between the voters and their elected representatives. As a business man…you don’t even have to worry about nothing but business.

i am sorry. i got to the end of your first comment... which was a rude personal attack and decided to not read this.

[The Kid]

I think you’re paranoid. I don’t think it’s right for the state to ban tobacco use either.

Here’s a thought that might blow your mind…I personally don’t believe businesses should be involved in the provision of health insurance at all. Why make businesses responsible for that kind of expense??? My personal view is that everyone should pay into a single payer national health insurance program where insurance premiums are negotiated with private insurers and supplemented by the tax revenues paid into the system pay those who benefit from it. Everyone should have to pay something toward their health insurance. Right now if I didn’t have insurance I could go to the ER and get treatment. They would bill me. I could simply refuse to pay. Now, consider that there are over 10 million or more of me…that would fuel the rise in health care cost as providers increased costs to cover the loss. As health care costs rise…insurers have to raise premiums to cover those costs. Now YOU the business owner is found stuck paying more or handing more of that cost to the backs of your hard working employees. I say take you and your business out of the equation and let you focus on business. Negotiate rates with companies and then have everyone pay a lower negotiated premium and taxes into the system so all are covered. As providers are actually paid in a timely manner the cost of healthcare would drop exponentially. Not to mention a national medical records database would reduce health care costs 30%.

National health insurance would make health insurance an issue between the voters and their elected representatives. As a business man…you don’t even have to worry about nothing but business.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

Part of a successful business model is having the ability to hire and retain quality people. You are missing the whole point of employer paid health insurance, it is not an entitlement, it is a benefit.

[Ferd]

I'm a "looser" for disagreeing....

You make a great example of what a Conservative truly is.

No sir. you are not a loser. Managment clairfied that.

and it was Antipas anyway not grasshopper...

as for disagreeing.... well now there is disagreeing and then there is the lack of reading comprehension.

sometimes I think some folk (see above) comprehend like I spell.

[Ferd]

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

Part of a successful business model is having the ability to hire and retain quality people. You are missing the whole point of employer paid health insurance, it is not an entitlement, it is a benefit.

you read that? did you take a shower?

[Grasshopper]

I think Democrats (includes liberals) are pretty stupid. They stand up and scream on their soapbox of the rich not paying their fair share, and they end up hitting the middle class square in the mouth.

After all, when taxes go UP for the small business owner, the middle and lower classes lose their jobs...then the liberals vote for tax increases in order for social programs to take care of the people those evil rich business owners fired.

Plain and simple, political, fiscal, and social Liberals are morons.

Now anyone who doesn’t agree with the conservative mantra are “stupid” and “morons”.

Here’s the deal…small business owners should receive hearty tax benefits. But right now larger corporations have more breaks than the small business owner. They get massive tax shelters and even have attorneys that lobby for personal loopholes in the laws or seek to find those currently existing. A corporation can send dozens of lobbyists to Washington to protect THEIR interests and to get preferential tax treatment….the small business owner can’t and just struggles to survive. In fact as corporations get more and more tax shelters and options to dodge taxes…they tax burden to fund the government falls on the small business owner. As the small business owner struggles to survive the corporations poise themselves to put him out of business. The shark devours the seal.

Democrats focus on small business owners and the working class. Republicans are in bed with massive multinational corporations.

[Grasshopper]

i am sorry. i got to the end of your first comment... which was a rude personal attack and decided to not read this.

Let's make a deal...I'll be a looser and you can be paranoid. :lol

[Grasshopper]

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

Part of a successful business model is having the ability to hire and retain quality people. You are missing the whole point of employer paid health insurance, it is not an entitlement, it is a benefit.

When 140 million have less than adequate insurance to pay for medical procedures they need and 18,000 die every year from treatable conditions because they have no health insurance...I think there's more at stake than your profit margins.

Any national system would be very basic. Employers could compete by offering smaller plans to cover elective procedures. For example a national plan wouldn't cover breast enlargments or plastic surgery....an employer could offer a supplimental plans that would these elective things.

[Grasshopper]

No sir. you are not a loser. Managment clairfied that.

and it was Antipas anyway not grasshopper...

as for disagreeing.... well now there is disagreeing and then there is the lack of reading comprehension.

sometimes I think some folk (see above) comprehend like I spell.

Ok, sometimes I read something quickly and miss it. But here's a question...you're a Christian, why call anyone a "looser"? As a conservative do you give an oath to be nasty in some arcane neo-con ritual meeting during the full moon?

[The Kid]

Now anyone who doesn’t agree with the conservative mantra are “stupid” and “morons”.

Here’s the deal…small business owners should receive hearty tax benefits. But right now larger corporations have more breaks than the small business owner. They get massive tax shelters and even have attorneys that lobby for personal loopholes in the laws or seek to find those currently existing. A corporation can send dozens of lobbyists to Washington to protect THEIR interests and to get preferential tax treatment….the small business owner can’t and just struggles to survive. In fact as corporations get more and more tax shelters and options to dodge taxes…they tax burden to fund the government falls on the small business owner. As the small business owner struggles to survive the corporations poise themselves to put him out of business. The shark devours the seal.

Democrats focus on small business owners and the working class. Republicans are in bed with massive multinational corporations.

Read it again skippy, I never said anything about Republicans working in a vacuum, I could have been advocating libertarianism.

You are wrong again, you are only supposing that democrats shelter small business. Take a look at State governments that have a democrat majority the MAJORITY of their legislation advocates social programs and they put the screws to ALL business. State needs more employees? Raise the taxes across the board for ALL companies regardless of size.

How many small businesses do you own there black-liquid spitter? I can feel something poking me in the Levi Tag of my Jeans every month and it is my friendly local liberal democrat who hates me because I am trying to step up and provide jobs.

[The Kid]

When 140 million have less than adequate insurance to pay for medical procedures they need and 18,000 die every year from treatable conditions because they have no health insurance...I think there's more at stake than your profit margins.

Any national system would be very basic. Employers could compete by offering smaller plans to cover elective procedures. For example a national plan wouldn't cover breast enlargments or plastic surgery....an employer could offer a supplimental plans that would these elective things.

when you use the words National system, it causes me to laugh especially when I consider the efficiency of other divisions of Government, and you want them to handle health care? :slaphappy

I am not saying there is not a health care crisis, I am IN health care. However, I am not willing to pay higher taxes across the board because someone either refuses to work or use birth control.

[Michael The Disciple]

Mccain:

"My thoughts are that I think that people should be able to enter into legal agreements and I think that that is something we should encourage....we have a respectful disagreement on this issue..."

He is being respectful for sure. But to what? An abomination. And he wants us to ENCOURAGE them entering into legal agreements. I guess such as if I am an employer I have to pay for homosexuals insurance. I have to pay benefits to something (homosexual lifestyle) that God says he turns men over to a reprobate mind over. I have defended Mccain many times both here and other forums. But I have always said I wanted to hear more of what he would do about homosexuality. There is such a thing as a bully pulpit. The Republicans have become spineless and cowardly on the issues that are important to me.

I want a Pres who will at least speak up and say "My personal belief is that homosexuality is wrong and immoral". Mccain said he disagreed with her yes. But he never spoke about the issue AT ALL. Just that he and others disagree. That is way to timid. He's lost my vote. I would say hes lost many others also by that performance.

The Dems are BOLD about what they believe. Not ashamed. Thats the way he came across to me. Yes he has some areas I agree with but this is just to big an issue to the Lord. Everyone has those issues that are important to them.

To Mccain it seems to be low taxes, NAFTA, improving the lives of illegal aliens and defence. Thats a package many are ok with. But the things I care MOST ABOUT he is lukewarm on.

God will eventually devestate America for the murder of the unborn and the toleration of homosexuality. Yes there are many other sins. Its just that when a nation gets so low as to allow such evil they are getting very close to judgment. He is already sending wrath on this nation. A little here a little there. Soon it will be crushing blows that the nation cannot withstand.

[The Kid]

He is being respectful for sure. But to what? An abomination. And he wants us to ENCOURAGE them entering into legal agreements. I guess such as if I am an employer I have to pay for homosexuals insurance. I have to pay benefits to something (homosexual lifestyle) that God says he turns men over to a reprobate mind over. I have defended Mccain many times both here and other forums. But I have always said I wanted to hear more of what he would do about homosexuality. There is such a thing as a bully pulpit. The Republicans have become spineless and cowardly on the issues that are important to me.

I want a Pres who will at least speak up and say "My personal belief is that homosexuality is wrong and immoral". Mccain said he disagreed with her yes. But he never spoke about the issue AT ALL. Just that he and others disagree. That is way to timid. He's lost my vote. I would say hes lost many others also by that performance.

The Dems are BOLD about what they believe. Not ashamed. Thats the way he came across to me. Yes he has some areas I agree with but this is just to big an issue to the Lord. Everyone has those issues that are important to them.

To Mccain it seems to be low taxes, NAFTA, improving the lives of illegal aliens and defence. Thats a package many are ok with. But the things I care MOST ABOUT he is lukewarm on.

So don't vote.

[Ferd]

He is being respectful for sure. But to what? An abomination. And he wants us to ENCOURAGE them entering into legal agreements. I guess such as if I am an employer I have to pay for homosexuals insurance. I have to pay benefits to something (homosexual lifestyle) that God says he turns men over to a reprobate mind over. I have defended Mccain many times both here and other forums. But I have always said I wanted to hear more of what he would do about homosexuality. There is such a thing as a bully pulpit. The Republicans have become spineless and cowardly on the issues that are important to me.

I want a Pres who will at least speak up and say "My personal belief is that homosexuality is wrong and immoral". Mccain said he disagreed with her yes. But he never spoke about the issue AT ALL. Just that he and others disagree. That is way to timid. He's lost my vote. I would say hes lost many others also by that performance.

The Dems are BOLD about what they believe. Not ashamed. Thats the way he came across to me. Yes he has some areas I agree with but this is just to big an issue to the Lord. Everyone has those issues that are important to them.

To Mccain it seems to be low taxes, NAFTA, improving the lives of illegal aliens and defence. Thats a package many are ok with. But the things I care MOST ABOUT he is lukewarm on.

God will eventually devestate America for the murder of the unborn and the toleration of homosexuality. Yes there are many other sins. Its just that when a nation gets so low as to allow such evil they are getting very close to judgment. He is already sending wrath on this nation. A little here a little there. Soon it will be crushing blows that the nation cannot withstand.


what is he supposed to say ?

you are an abomination in the eyes of God and a stench in his nostrils! I celebrate your eventual torment in hell!

?????

was that what you were wanting?

[Grasshopper]

Read it again skippy, I never said anything about Republicans working in a vacuum, I could have been advocating libertarianism.

I’d favor a Libertarian before a Republican. The Republicans are owned by corporate power, Libertarians focus on personal liberties. I can dig that.

You are wrong again, you are only supposing that democrats shelter small business. Take a look at State governments that have a democrat majority the MAJORITY of their legislation advocates social programs and they put the screws to ALL business. State needs more employees? Raise the taxes across the board for ALL companies regardless of size.

Imagine that…if the state needs new policemen to patrol the streets or to contract with construction companies to repair the roads and bridges someone has to pay for it…it’s not going to just materialize like you seem to think it will. There will be a cost. Now that cost is going to have to be shared by all, especially those who can afford it. Excessive taxes on your business might cause you to cut a couple jobs but you’ll continue to exist and adapt and those people will find new jobs. But if that tax burden is shifted to individuals…many of them are so strapped already by the cost of living (wages sure haven’t risen to match cost of living while CEO salaries and stock options have 400 times over) that if they were to shoulder the tax increase…they might loose their family home. Bro…don’t wine, it’s the cost of a civil society.

How many small businesses do you own there black-liquid spitter?

My uncle owns The Customizer (an automobile customizing shop on Airway Rd. in Dayton Oh). I spent the day in his office and we talked quite a bit of politics. He is a die hard Democrat because he feels the Republicans have left him, as a small business to rot. The Democrats have actually done more for him on the state side than the Republicans ever did. You have to understand…Ohio Republicans have been an abysmal failure with extensive corruption and financial mismanagement throughout the state system. It’s one reason why I’m so turned off about them. Thank God Gov. Strickland is running a more bipartisan and transparent governorship.

I can feel something poking me in the Levi Tag of my Jeans every month and it is my friendly local liberal democrat who hates me because I am trying to step up and provide jobs.

Just pay your taxes. Both Jesus and Paul admonished us to do so. :rollseyes

Here’s a thought…some business people think they’re entitled to special treatment because they’re businesses. No one is entitled to be a business owner. If you can’t pay your taxes and function…maybe business isn’t for you or you need to better manage your businesses finances.

[Grasshopper]

when you use the words National system, it causes me to laugh especially when I consider the efficiency of other divisions of Government, and you want them to handle health care? :slaphappy

http://www.pnhp.org/images/cartoons/hightower_cartoon.gif

I am not saying there is not a health care crisis, I am IN health care. However, I am not willing to pay higher taxes across the board because someone either refuses to work or use birth control.

That's because you don't see health care as a moral imparative.

[Ferd]

I’d favor a Libertarian before a Republican.

this from the guy that advocates state run healthcare.

[Ferd]

Carpenter is my new hero.

[Michael The Disciple]

what is he supposed to say ?

you are an abomination in the eyes of God and a stench in his nostrils! I celebrate your eventual torment in hell!

?????

was that what you were wanting?

I quote me from that post:

I want a Pres who will at least speak up and say "My personal belief is that homosexuality is wrong and immoral".

Guess you did not read that part.

[The Kid]

http://www.pnhp.org/images/cartoons/hightower_cartoon.gif



That's because you don't see health care as a moral imparative.

I suppose you gather this from His eye is on the sparrow and all that...?

Moral imparative? Who pronounces what constitutes moral imparatives? YOU? The Democrats? Government?

True to your liberal position, you should be advocating survival of the species!

Now THAT is a moral imparative, survive or die.

Nonsense.

[Ferd]

I quote me from that post:

I want a Pres who will at least speak up and say "My personal belief is that homosexuality is wrong and immoral".

Guess you did not read that part.

i generally skim long posts... I stand by my question.

[Grasshopper]

God will eventually devestate America for the murder of the unborn and the toleration of homosexuality. Yes there are many other sins. Its just that when a nation gets so low as to allow such evil they are getting very close to judgment. He is already sending wrath on this nation. A little here a little there. Soon it will be crushing blows that the nation cannot withstand.

God will eventually devastate all nations for their sin. There has NEVER been a nation that pleased God; even Israel was judged by God for disobedience.

I know this might hurt but…homosexuals and abortion has been with us since our founding. Abortion was perfectly legal in America up until states began to ban the procedure in the 1800’s. States were banning the procedure because women were dying from infections from abortion procedures. Abortion began to be legalized in some measure as medical science provided safer abortion procedures. Of course eventually the SCOTUS ruled that the government was incapable of forcing women to give birth when they didn’t desire to so they ruled in favor of “choice” placing the entire responsibility on individual women. In a prochoice culture it is the individual women who choose abortion that are to blame…not the government. Interestingly, abortion rates have dropped in America even though abortion has been legalized. We need to do more to reduce this abortion rate…but consider this…based on maternal morbidity prior to 1970 abortion rates were significantly higher when abortion was illegal than they are today. Over 40% of Democrats polled by Gallup (or maybe it was Zogby) report that they are Prolife. Most Americans believe in the sanctity of life. However, most Americans also appear to believe that the government is incapable of addressing the issue.

Here’s a question…if abortion were banned…what would be the legal penalties? Seriously, in the real world what would happen. Our government has never charged a woman for murder after an abortion. And to fine a woman is to essentially allow the government to make money off of it. Also that reduces life to the value of a speeding ticket. You could take doctor’s licenses…but most abortionists aren’t doctors. Realistically…how would the government really address abortion if it were to be our primary political focus? How would the government seize women and force them to give birth when they didn’t want to? As wrong as abortion is…the government isn’t capable of addressing the issue. That’s why I feel the Republicans are manipulating us by using our religious values to get our votes with regards to this issue.

And as far as gays go…gays have always been with us. I assure you if they get the right to marry or civil unions they will also face very messy divorces and most will opt out after all is said and done.

[Ferd]

I suppose you gather this from His eye is on the sparrow and all that...?

Moral imparative? Who pronounces what constitutes moral imparatives? YOU? The Democrats? Government?

True to your liberal position, you should be advocating survival of the species!

Now THAT is a moral imparative, survive or die.

Nonsense.


I asked the question yesterday If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons?

somehow that just came to my mind....

[The Kid]

There will be a cost. Now that cost is going to have to be shared by all, especially those who can afford it.

Bro…don’t wine, it’s the cost of a civil society.

Here’s a thought…some business people think they’re entitled to special treatment because they’re businesses. No one is entitled to be a business owner. If you can’t pay your taxes and function…maybe business isn’t for you or you need to better manage your businesses finances.

Excuse me, I had to go puke after I read this and you should have seen it, it was yellow, kind of like color of socialism.

I don't think I am entitled to anything, this is so fitting because you think we got to where we are as business owners by luck, entitlement, or whatever else besides taking tremendous risk, incurring debt, with the desire to be happy.

You believe that business should exist for the sake of creating a teat for the impoverished classes. Wrong Pal, small business owners understand the true meaning of what America is all about and that is empowerment to be and do better.

Teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime, give a man a fish and he will want you to give him two fishes tomorrow including the one you have for your family. Refuse and this man will go away crying saying the MAN is holding him back.

[The Kid]

God will eventually devastate all nations for their sin. There has NEVER been a nation that pleased God; even Israel was judged by God for disobedience.

I know this might hurt but…homosexuals and abortion has been with us since our founding. Abortion was perfectly legal in America up until states began to ban the procedure in the 1800’s. States were banning the procedure because women were dying from infections from abortion procedures. Abortion began to be legalized in some measure as medical science provided safer abortion procedures. Of course eventually the SCOTUS ruled that the government was incapable of forcing women to give birth when they didn’t desire to so they ruled in favor of “choice” placing the entire responsibility on individual women. In a prochoice culture it is the individual women who choose abortion that are to blame…not the government. Interestingly, abortion rates have dropped in America even though abortion has been legalized. We need to do more to reduce this abortion rate…but consider this…based on maternal morbidity prior to 1970 abortion rates were significantly higher when abortion was illegal than they are today. Over 40% of Democrats polled by Gallup (or maybe it was Zogby) report that they are Prolife. Most Americans believe in the sanctity of life. However, most Americans also appear to believe that the government is incapable of addressing the issue.

Here’s a question…if abortion were banned…what would be the legal penalties? Seriously, in the real world what would happen. Our government has never charged a woman for murder after an abortion. And to fine a woman is to essentially allow the government to make money off of it. Also that reduces life to the value of a speeding ticket. You could take doctor’s licenses…but most abortionists aren’t doctors. Realistically…how would the government really address abortion if it were to be our primary political focus? How would the government seize women and force them to give birth when they didn’t want to? As wrong as abortion is…the government isn’t capable of addressing the issue. That’s why I feel the Republicans are manipulating us by using our religious values to get our votes with regards to this issue.

And as far as gays go…gays have always been with us. I assure you if they get the right to marry or civil unions they will also face very messy divorces and most will opt out after all is said and done.

I see words and letters, but all I read is blabby blabby blabby blabbity blab...

[Ferd]

Excuse me, I had to go puke after I read this and you should have seen it, it was yellow, kind of like color of socialism.

I don't think I am entitled to anything, this is so fitting because you think we got to where we are as business owners by luck, entitlement, or whatever else besides taking tremendous risk, incurring debt, with the desire to be happy.

You believe that business should exist for the sake of creating a teat for the impoverished classes. Wrong Pal, small business owners understand the true meaning of what America is all about and that is empowerment to be and do better.

Teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime, give a man a fish and he will want you to give him two fishes tomorrow including the one you have for your family. Refuse and this man will go away crying saying the MAN is holding him back.

Brilliant!

[Ferd]

I see words and letters, but all I read is blabby blabby blabby blabbity blab...

double brilliant!

[The Kid]

double brilliant!

Thanks Ferd.

[The Kid]

double brilliant!

hmm, I wonder if I pinched Grasshopper's two back legs a little too hard...


:slaphappy

[Ferd]

hmm, I wonder if I pinched Grasshopper's two back legs a little too hard...


:slaphappy

not hard enough in my humble opinion.

in any case you speak truth.

[Michael The Disciple]

i generally skim long posts... I stand by my question.

You have seen it twice now. I give up.

[AmericanAngel]

:donuts
my my my...wasn't that lovely!! LOL
:paranoid

[Ferd]

You have seen it twice now. I give up.

most generally do.

[vrblackwell]

im going to have to shoot myself. grass hopper said something that aint wrong.

the constitution does in fact allow for income tax. egads.

He right about the amendment. In the original it was not there.

[vrblackwell]

If you can tell me how to live while at home…you better be paying me while I’m watching NBA on TV.



That makes sense.



Who told you that the income tax is against the Constitution? The 16th Amendment of my Constitution states:

Amendment XVI
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

Now I think there might be a decent case made for how this shouldn’t have become an Amendment…but like it or not…it’s now part of the Constitution. Of course…this is what can happen when you go around Amending the Constitution. Handle with care.



The idea of a national sales tax is a joke. Look at FactCheck on it.

If they are paying your health care, they are paying you why you are at home.

[Pressing-On]

Carpenter! You have to read this comment by Dennis Miller on Hillary using a sexism charge on this campaign! Hilarious!!!!!! :toofunny:toofunny

INGRAHAM: And Dennis, the other story I have to get your take on is the sexism charge that Hillary and Ferraro are making. Hillary was describing her struggle — I believe it was earlier today or yesterday — like the struggle of oppressed women around the world and the Middle East and "I'm with them, and I'm enduring this." What do you make of this?

MILLER: First off, I think Geraldine Ferraro and Eleanor Clift have to get a small business loan and get their hair together. Because there's no reason a woman has to — there's no reason a woman has to look like David McCallum from "Man from U.N.C.L.E."

INGRAHAM: Brutal. I disassociate myself from hair comments, given my hair problems.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,357265,00.html

:toofunny:toofunny:toofunny:toofunny

Nobody loves me!!!!! :tissue

I was proud of this nappy, and sometimes crude, boxer wearing guy recognizing that he likes to see a feminine woman and not the likes of Geraldine, et al.

Kudos to Dennis Miller!!! :thumbsup

[Praxeas]

Nobody loves me!!!!! :tissue

I was proud of this nappy, and sometimes crude, boxer wearing guy recognizing that he likes to see a feminine woman and not the likes of Geraldine, et al.

Kudos to Dennis Miller!!! :thumbsup
Have you seen Ellen Degenerates soon to be ....er....wife? She is gorgeous....

[Pressing-On]

Have you seen Ellen Degenerates soon to be ....er....wife? She is gorgeous....

Please, you are making me sick.. :vomit

BTW, have you seen, Capucine, in North to Alaska with John Wayne. She was also gay and jumped out of a window to her death. Weird.

[pelathais]

I think you’re paranoid. I don’t think it’s right for the state to ban tobacco use either.

Here’s a thought that might blow your mind…I personally don’t believe businesses should be involved in the provision of health insurance at all. Why make businesses responsible for that kind of expense??? My personal view is that everyone should pay into a single payer national health insurance program where insurance premiums are negotiated with private insurers and supplemented by the tax revenues paid into the system pay those who benefit from it. Everyone should have to pay something toward their health insurance. Right now if I didn’t have insurance I could go to the ER and get treatment. They would bill me. I could simply refuse to pay. Now, consider that there are over 10 million or more of me…that would fuel the rise in health care cost as providers increased costs to cover the loss. As health care costs rise…insurers have to raise premiums to cover those costs. Now YOU the business owner is found stuck paying more or handing more of that cost to the backs of your hard working employees. I say take you and your business out of the equation and let you focus on business. Negotiate rates with companies and then have everyone pay a lower negotiated premium and taxes into the system so all are covered. As providers are actually paid in a timely manner the cost of healthcare would drop exponentially. Not to mention a national medical records database would reduce health care costs 30%.

National health insurance would make health insurance an issue between the voters and their elected representatives. As a business man…you don’t even have to worry about nothing but business.
No, the businessman would have to worry about doing business in an environment where there was excessive government regulation, Chr... I mean, Grasshopper.

Right now the "health care industry" makes up approximately 1/5 of GDP. Nationalizing 1/5 of GDP would have a considerable effect upon the other 4/5's. Removing what elements of the free market that still exist within our health care system would immediately drive up costs.

A national medical records database may or may not reduce costs, but it would also provide information for the social engineers to start making other decisions for you as well. Just look at what Hillary did when she was able to get the FBI files of her husband's political enemies. And you then want me to trust these same people with my genome?

Health care should be a matter between me and my doctor - NOT me and my "elected representatives," Chr... I mean Grasshopper. My "elected representatives" are supposed to clean my streets - my doctor and I have discussions that are fundamentally more private in nature.

[Grasshopper]

Excuse me, I had to go puke after I read this and you should have seen it, it was yellow, kind of like color of socialism.

I don't think I am entitled to anything, this is so fitting because you think we got to where we are as business owners by luck, entitlement, or whatever else besides taking tremendous risk, incurring debt, with the desire to be happy.

You believe that business should exist for the sake of creating a teat for the impoverished classes. Wrong Pal, small business owners understand the true meaning of what America is all about and that is empowerment to be and do better.

Teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime, give a man a fish and he will want you to give him two fishes tomorrow including the one you have for your family. Refuse and this man will go away crying saying the MAN is holding him back.

Maybe if it were someone you loved who died because they didn't have health insurance to cover the necessary treatments you'd care. Does it bother you that nearly 18,000 people die every year because they lack the insurance coverage they need?

[Grasshopper]

I see words and letters, but all I read is blabby blabby blabby blabbity blab...

It might be your monitor.

[Grasshopper]

If they are paying your health care, they are paying you why you are at home.

Most employers only pay a portion of people's health insurance. The premium is on the employee, along with the deductible. Yet these companies think they can demand you live as they command or they can send you packing. I say if you can tell an employee what to do 24/7 the company should pay 100% of all health care expenses including premiums and deductibles.

[Grasshopper]

No, the businessman would have to worry about doing business in an environment where there was excessive government regulation, Chr... I mean, Grasshopper.

I took the Grasshopper title because people were saying the most insulting things to me because I disagreed with them. In the past I've had people at my previous church read my posts on another site and they actually confronted me and almost got violent with me calling "commie" and abortionist because I was pulling for a Democrat. I realized that as Ferd and others began to harass me with insults and denigrations I better go with a name other than my real name for my own peace of mind. At the time Baron referred to me as "young grasshopper" so I took the Grasshopper handle.

Right now the "health care industry" makes up approximately 1/5 of GDP. Nationalizing 1/5 of GDP would have a considerable effect upon the other 4/5's. Removing what elements of the free market that still exist within our health care system would immediately drive up costs.

I think you're not understanding the plans on the table in this election. The Democratic plan wouldn't nationalize the system. First, employers could continue using what they have if they wish. If you wanted to keep the insurance you have right now you could. But if you were an employer and couldn't afford to insure your employees you would pay into the subsidized system for significantly less than what it would cost to insure your employees. The public system would actually be through private insurance companies in the industry. If you wanted the public program the government would essentially pick you up like you were an employee of the government and subsidize your insurance and you'd only pay a low negotiated premium. The premium would be very low because you'd belong to a pool of tens of millions of people, so they get those lower group rates (larger groups have buying power and can get better rates). The coverage would be exactly what is offered to members of Congress. The plan wouldn't be removing anything from the private market...in fact it would benefit the private market by bringing tens of millions of customers who are currently not customers into the program. The insurance companies will actually see business boom.

Think of it like this...Ohio passed a law stating all motorists had to purchase auto insurance. Do you think that hurt or helped the auto insurance market? Essentially the Democrats are making it law that you have to be insured, rather it's through your employer, personally purchased plan, or part of the public system...whichever is cheaper for you. Oh...you'd still see your doctor and go where you wish. And to top it off...you keep the public policy if you change jobs.

A national medical records database may or may not reduce costs, but it would also provide information for the social engineers to start making other decisions for you as well. Just look at what Hillary did when she was able to get the FBI files of her husband's political enemies. And you then want me to trust these same people with my genome?

Bro...it's a well known and documented fact that 30% of America's health care costs are administrative due to all the duplication. Every hospital, doctor, clinic, or office you go to you have to fill out paper work for each one. The same thing over and over and over and over. Those files are then filed and managed independently in each location and under each doctor. A national database is currently in the works and it's not the government pushing it....it's the private industry because they want to cut their overhead costs. A national health records database would help the health care industry streamline their entire office process. It would be like LexusNexus for doctors. Upon signing into the clinic you would authorize them to pull your record and they wouldn't have to send for records from another office or specialist. It will save the health care industry millions of dollars in office costs. You'd also not have to fill out all the forms you need to fill out every time you visit another office, specialist, or when checking in for your annual visit. The database is already being designed and it will be managed by the industry...not the government.

Health care should be a matter between me and my doctor - NOT me and my "elected representatives," Chr... I mean Grasshopper. My "elected representatives" are supposed to clean my streets - my doctor and I have discussions that are fundamentally more private in nature.

It's obvious you're not up to date on what's going on. You've been convinced that the national health care plans we're working on here are like that in Canada...their not. It's all through private insurance companies and health care providers. All the government does is negotiate your lower premiums with the group rates they can get by negotiating for millions and millions of people.

It's all market driven and with private insurers and providers.

[Grasshopper]

I have a question for some of you who own your own businesses. If you help pay for your employees health insurance...would you continue providing insurance if the government took away the tax benefit you get for paying a portion of their costs?

[pelathais]

I took the Grasshopper title because people were saying the most insulting things to me because I disagreed with them. In the past I've had people at my previous church read my posts on another site and they actually confronted me and almost got violent with me calling "commie" and abortionist because I was pulling for a Democrat...
Grasshopper, your thoughts are compelling and you articulate your views well. You have no reason to put up with harassment or insults, however, that is the nature of this "game" too.

The Internet began with a coy sort of anonymity and then briefly there was an actual cloak. Now any determined investigator can find out just about who anyone else is so we're back to a coy sort of pseudo-anonymity.

I wouldn't take the "name calling" here too much to heart. It's simply easier for me to call you a "commie" than it is for me to counter your single payer argument. So, you're a "commie." http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/images/icons/icon11.gif

But I'm left to wonder if a more centrally administered system wouldn't be more efficient? And everyone else sees our arguments for what they are.

[Grasshopper]

Pelathais, thanks for the civility bro. I love ya, you're a good man.

When it comes to health care...no system is perfect. But right now America is falling far behind other western nations. We have a system that is excellent. The problem with health care in the US is that 140 million people can't receive the full benefits of this great system.

As it is the uninsured go to the ER and get treated. They can't pay the bills and that loss is passed down to us in higher premiums. I know a man who's paying a $900 premium every month for his family. Why is his premium so high? Redundant administrative costs, excessively expensive malpractice insurance, and above all the fees and bills of the uninsured that drive the cost of health care higher and higher each year as more and More people loose coverage. (Please note: an estimated 25,000 people declare bankruptcy each year because they can't pay medical bills.) Right now our premiums are so high because we're paying for those who aren't paying a dime toward their own health care.

And consider this...those with pre-existing illnesses often can't get approved for coverage. Or if they are approved it's so expensive because they're high risk they can't afford it. Ultimately the result is that the sick, those that need it most, can't afford coverage. There's something morally wrong with that. I know a girl named Julie that my wife works with. She's fighting cancer and their department is facing layoffs. She's terrified that if she gets laid off she'll never be able to get the coverage she needs to continue treatments through insurance at a new job. Bro...there's something morally wrong with this. And it's happening all the time to people.