Testimony of Gods healing power

[Dr. Vaughn]

Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever... let this testimony bless your socks off

William David Upshaw was born on October 15, 1866, near Atlanta, Georgia. He served in Congress during the late 1910's and throughout the 1920's, and ran for the office of the President for the Prohibition Party in 1932. At the age of 84, 66 years after becoming a paraplegic, William Branham saw a vision of Congressman Upshaw walking. He was instantly healed, and had full use of his legs for the remainder of his life.

Shortly before his death at age 86, William Upshaw published his testimony in a tract which he sent to every Senator and member of the House of Representatives, as well as President Truman, Winston Churchill, King George, and Joseph Stalin.

While attending a Southern Baptist Convention, which William Upshaw had been the vice-president of twice, he learning about William Branham's ministry from Rev. Roy Davis, the man who had ordained him. On February 8, 1951 at the Calvary Temple in Los Angeles, while praying for the sick, William Branham turned to the audience and said:

I see a young man falling from a hay stack and breaking his back. A doctor with a white mustache and glasses that sit low on his nose, working on the young man, but to no avail. The youngster grows to become a famous person who writes books. People are applauding him.

William Upshaw told an usher he wanted to talk to William Branham, so a microphone was passed to him. He asked: "My son, how did you know that I fell and hurt myself when I was a boy?"
Congressman Upshaw is seen on the left, sitting in the front, with his arms folded
Congressman Upshaw is seen on the left, sitting in the front, with his arms folded

"I can't tell you, sir, I can only say what I see." William Branham responded.

But still William Upshaw was not healed. The prayer line continued while William Upshaw sat on the front row, finally a general prayer was called where people laid hands on each other.

Exhausted from preaching and praying for the sick, William Branham was carried from the platform. Before he could leave the building, he saw one final vision of William Upshaw walking without crutches. Upon hearing this vision, LeRoy Kopp, the Pastor at the Calvary Temple, rushed back to the pulpit and announced, "Brother Branham says, `The congressman is healed'."

Instantly, a man that had not walked for sixty-six years stood to his feet and started walking. William Upshaw retained the full use of his legs for the remainder of his life, and traveled across the country testifying of his healing. He died November 21, 1952.

In a message entitled "Who Hath Believed Our Report?", preached on July 19, 1951, William Branham referred to Congressman Upshaw's healing, and said:

"I feel that he was the one that the Angel of the Lord was referring to when He met me and said, `You'll pray for great men, statesmen, kings of the earth.'"

[Dr. Vaughn]

Go ahead gentlemen... tear it to pieces... destroy this testimony with pre-concieved disdain for Bro. Branham

[Rico]

Do you realize every thread you've started has been to bring glory to Branham? Think about that.

[Dr. Vaughn]

Wrong RICO - Branham healed no one -- it is brining glory to the great healer who walked with Branham

[Dr. Vaughn]

During the month of January, 1950, Brother Branham and Brother F.F. Bosworth were conducting meetings in Houston, Texas. On the same evening that the photograph was taken of Brother Branham, which registered the halo above his head, Brother Bosworth showed Brother Branham a lady's picture. It had accompanied a letter and airplane ticket from Florence Nightingale of Durban, South Africa, a distant relative of the Florence Nightingale who founded the Red Cross. She was a mere skeleton and reminded then of Georgie Carter, a young lady from Milltown, Indiana, who was in a similar condition before she received her healing.

...This Florence Nightingale of Durban suffered from cancer at the entrance of the stomach which causes one to die of starvation. She weighed only about fifty pounds. She had been fed through the veins on glucose until that was no longer possible. Hearing of Brother Branham, she cried for him to come and pray for her. Thus she wrote for him to come, sending along her picture and plane ticket.

That night in Houston they prayed for Florence Nightingale, promising God that if he would heal her and make her completely well, they would take it as an indication for God that they should go to South Africa.

Eight weeks later the Branham party landed in England on their way to Finland. The King of England had sent a cable requesting Brother Branham to come and pray for him. When the Branham party stepped off the plane, William Branham's name was called over the loud speaker. Florence Nightingale had arrived at the airport just fifteen minutes before and those with her had put out this call for Brother Branham to come quickly because they thought she was dying. The place was so crowded that they were informed to get in touch with him at the Picadilly Hotel. This was done and arrangements were made for him to come to her hotel.

It was one of those foggy days in April when they motored to the hotel where she was staying. No one in the party had ever seen a human being in such a pitiful condition as the woman in that room. She was so thin that the skin stuck to her bones. Their hearts were moved with compassion. Florence Nightingale could hardly speak as tears ran down her cheeks for she was suffering with such pain.

They all, including a minister of the Church of England as well as her nurses, knelt and began to pray for her. As they started to pray a dove came and sat on the window sill, looking inside as it started to coo. After prayer, when Brother Branham said, "Amen", the dove flew away. The minister started to speak saying, "Did you see that dove?" Before he finished the question the Spirit Of the Lord moved upon Brother Branham to speak these words- "Thus saith the Lord, you will live, sister."

Eight months after Brother Branham had prayed for Florence Nightingale in England he received another picture from her. At this time she was a perfect picture of health and weighed 155 pounds..."

[Broken]

:crazywalls:crazywalls:crazywalls- God is the healer ! I know him, live for him, love him and believe he will do whatever he promises he will, does not need any certain denomination to pour out his spirit on or healings!

[pelathais]

At about that same time, 1950, a personal friend of mine helped to evacuate several dozen people from Keil Auditorium in Saint Louis, Mo. who were not healed by William Branham. This was a general practice after each of his meetings. Scores and scores of people who had heard his message came in faith to be healed but left with the same infirmities that had brought with them.

And today; though I have no idea if she even existed in the first place, however, I am rather confidant that your "Florence Nightingale" is as dead as William Branham. The "King of England (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_VI_of_the_United_Kingdom)" that you mentioned for some reason would go on to die about a year later as well.

[Dr. Vaughn]

Pelathais..... even Jesus did not heal them all

[Dr. Vaughn]

Your friend... did he ever tell you how many were healed? Oh I am sure NONE.... typical non reasonable response

[pelathais]

Your friend... did he ever tell you how many were healed? Oh I am sure NONE.... typical non reasonable response
No, as best as I can quote him - "Some of them got up and some of them didn't." He then described with sadness what it was like helping those who did not get healed.

[Rico]

Pelathais..... even Jesus did not heal them all


14 Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him. 15 But when Jesus knew it, he withdrew himself from thence:and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all;
Matt 12:14-15 (KJV)

[HeavenlyOne]

Pelathais..... even Jesus did not heal them all

Got scripture for that?

[MrRight]

Man wha t is it with you and this Branam guy? You come here and start bunches of treads on this guy. It sounds like you idolize him!!! Whats your point? Why are you here and who really cares what Branam did? He is not the God of th dead but of the livng!

[CC1]

Man wha t is it with you and this Branam guy? You come here and start bunches of treads on this guy. It sounds like you idolize him!!! Whats your point? Why are you here and who really cares what Branam did? He is not the God of th dead but of the livng!

Do a little google seach on William Branham and you will find that they do idolize him.

They do not consider him "A" prophet, they consider him "THE" prophet of the "seventh church age".

It is very cultic. They sit around and listen to old poor quality audio tapes of WB's sermons as if they are listening to the Bible.

Check out some of their church websites and you will find WB quoted like most churches would quote the Bible.

It is all very interesting in a bizzare "bad car wreck" kind of way.

[Broken]

Do a little google seach on William Branham and you will find that they do idolize him.

They do not consider him "A" prophet, they consider him "THE" prophet of the "seventh church age".

It is very cultic. They sit around and listen to old poor quality audio tapes of WB's sermons as if they are listening to the Bible.

Check out some of their church websites and you will find WB quoted like most churches would quote the Bible.

It is all very interesting in a bizzare "bad car wreck" kind of way.



:boxing:boxing:boxing We need to fight for the truth of God's word...this is bizarre- have had encounters with worshippers of "THE" prophet....:girlytantrum:girlytantrum:girlytantrum :girlytantrum run for your life.

[Dr. Vaughn]

Got scripture for that?

Many people reached out to Jesus for their healing..... but only one was healed.. when he said "Who touched me"

Do, you not remember where Jesus could NO MIRACLES in his hometown... God in the flesh.. couldn't heal those who came to him for healing

[Dr. Vaughn]

No, as best as I can quote him - "Some of them got up and some of them didn't." He then described with sadness what it was like helping those who did not get healed.


Do you not rejoice about the "some got up"

or would it have to happen among your little group of ministers before you will rejoice that OUR GOD INDEED HEALED some..... if not all

Bro. Barnes left with MANY MANY still sick in his meetings.....

[HeavenlyOne]

Many people reached out to Jesus for their healing..... but only one was healed.. when he said "Who touched me"

Do, you not remember where Jesus could NO MIRACLES in his hometown... God in the flesh.. couldn't heal those who came to him for healing

Scripture...scripture. Thou lackest.

Show me scripture where Jesus prayed over someone or laid hands on them or whatever and they weren't healed. That's what you are claiming happened.

[Rico]

24 And Jesus went with him; and much people followed him, and thronged him. 25 And a certain woman, which had an issue of blood twelve years, 26 And had suffered many things of many physicians, and had spent all that she had, and was nothing bettered, but rather grew worse, 27 When she had heard of Jesus, came in the press behind, and touched his garment. 28 For she said, If I may touch but his clothes, I shall be whole. 29 And straightway the fountain of her blood was dried up; and she felt in her body that she was healed of that plague. 30 And Jesus, immediately knowing in himself that virtue had gone out of him, turned him about in the press, and said, Who touched my clothes? 31 And his disciples said unto him, Thou seest the multitude thronging thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me? 32 And he looked round about to see her that had done this thing. 33 But the woman fearing and trembling, knowing what was done in her, came and fell down before him, and told him all the truth. 34 And he said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace, and be whole of thy plague.
Mark 5:24-34 (KJV)


No mention whatsoever of all these people thronging Him to get a healing, except for one, who got what she came for.

[Dr. Vaughn]

So Rico,, all those reaching out to him.. were there just to touch the man? Do you honestly propose NO ONE else was there for healing from the great healer?

The blind man was not healed the first either....

In Jesus home town he could perform NO MIRACLES ----

Matt 13:58 And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

Why could he not do many mighty works??? He should have been able to see the sick healed...... anywhere he went..... I can only imagine the whispers when he was there... "why are the sick still sick"

[pelathais]

Do you not rejoice about the "some got up"

or would it have to happen among your little group of ministers before you will rejoice that OUR GOD INDEED HEALED some..... if not all

Bro. Barnes left with MANY MANY still sick in his meetings.....
I wonder about the "some got up." And FWIW, I have no "little group of ministers." And by "Bro. Barnes" I assume you mean T.W. Barnes - you know it's funny, I met Bro. Barnes on at least a couple of occasions and ate with him at least once, that I remember - but I never heard him preach.

I'm not so much concerned with the fact that not everyone gets "healed," at a Pentecostal service. We know about that. What concerns me about Branham are the claims that he made of himself and the claims that his followers have made. We are to test these claims (1 John 4:1; Revelation 2:2; 1 Thessalonians 5:21).

Nothing in World War 2 matches up to what William Branham described as was going to happen. You and I will grow old together and some day go on to our reward - but California will still be sitting there just as it is today.

Okay, maybe California will have more wind farms, but it won't "fall off into the ocean." I predict that. Get back with me when you're cashing your Social Security checks and you'll see that I'm right and William Branham was wrong.

Except maybe about the Social Security checks - now Social Security falling into the ocean is a definite possibility, but California will still be there long after humans are gone.

And about Congressman Upshaw's healing: I haven't been able to find anything that substantiates that story except excerpts from the same story that you cut-and-pasted here. Upshaw's official Congressional biography is here (http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/biodisplay.pl?index=U000026), it doesn't mention a healing. Do you know of any other sources for this other than the "BelievetheSign" article?

[Broken]

I do know today that if I call on Jesus - he will heal

I do know if I call on William Branham today he couldn't heal a fly with a headache as he is as dead as every earthly man that died however my JESUS liveth and liveth and liveth again for all eternity.

[TRFrance]

So Rico,, all those reaching out to him.. were there just to touch the man? Do you honestly propose NO ONE else was there for healing from the great healer?

The blind man was not healed the first either....

In Jesus home town he could perform NO MIRACLES ----

Matt 13:58 And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

Why could he not do many mighty works??? He should have been able to see the sick healed...... anywhere he went..... I can only imagine the whispers when he was there... "why are the sick still sick"

There's something very unsettling about this post, Vaughn. It's almost as if you're trying to bring Jesus' ministry down a bit; that is, closer to Branham's level... while elevating Branham's ministry, closer to Jesus' level.

Very disturbing.

[Dr. Vaughn]

All I can give you are the congressmans own words.... is that fair enough?

http://en.believethesign.com/index.php?title=Upshaw_tract

[Broken]

All I can give you are the congressmans own words.... is that fair enough?

http://en.believethesign.com/index.php?title=Upshaw_tract



Please get up and shake yourself from the chains that bind you!

[Rico]

So Rico,, all those reaching out to him.. were there just to touch the man? Do you honestly propose NO ONE else was there for healing from the great healer?

The blind man was not healed the first either....

In Jesus home town he could perform NO MIRACLES ----

Matt 13:58 And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

Why could he not do many mighty works??? He should have been able to see the sick healed...... anywhere he went..... I can only imagine the whispers when he was there... "why are the sick still sick"

I'll stick with what the Bible says. It says one woman reached out to him to get healed and she got what she came for. Their unbelief is what caused Jesus to not do many mighty works in His home town. That in no way suggests Jesus couldn't heal any one of them had they wanted it. You tried to justify Branham's failures at healing by saying even Jesus didn't heal them all. Jesus healed everyone that came to Him for a healing. You do not have even one scripture that shows he tried and failed. At this point I don't know which is worse; people such as yourself exalting Branham beyond measure or you trying to bring Jesus down to Branham's level.

[TRFrance]

Vaughn, I dont know how much you realize it, but over the past few days here you have said much to exalt Bro Branham and his memory...much more than you've said to exalt Jesus Christ.

I think you need to really take a step back and realize what you're doing here. God is a jealous God, and does not wish to share his glory with any man!

[Rico]

There's something very unsettling about this post, Vaughn. It's almost as if you're trying to bring Jesus' ministry down a bit; that is, closer to Branham's level... while elevating Branham's ministry, closer to Jesus' level.

Very disturbing.

Wow. This is exactly the same thing I see happening.

[Dr. Vaughn]

Did he not heal but just one among that great throng of people that day?

He didn't heal Lazarus.. can you imagine the rumors going around that Jesus couldnt even heal his best friend.. of course now we know it was for a purpose.. it wasnt Gods will for him to be healed....

and that is the point I am trying to make... if anyone would at least be reasonable and hear me... I'm not bringing Jesus down... I am saying not everyone is supposed to be healed.. is that tooo far out to comprehend?

[Dr. Vaughn]

Just as I exalt God when I exalt Christ because GOD was IN CHRIST... just as I exhalt God when I exalt Peter, God was with Peter..... I do the same when I exalt Bro. Branhams memory because GOD was with Bro. Branham

Nicodemus..,, sums it up
"no man can do the miracles you do except GOD BE WITH HIM"

So, if God is with someone... such as Bro. Barnes.. and we sit around and talk about Bro. Barnes and all the things God did in his ministry... are we not in fact exalting God at the same time....

[Apocrypha]

I am not a branhamite, i come from 4 generations of UPC, but we must be careful to do 2 things.

1. Give God the Glory

2. Not speak evil of those God has used and also not to discount the works of the Holy Spirit even if it didn't come from a approved source.

What he is doing is no different that those that talk about the miracles that are done under Stoneking, Cole, or any of our signs and wonders guys. Yes, we don't agree with his dispensationalism in regards to Branham being 'the prophet' in the way they teach, but just because it doesn't come from our chimney it doesn't mean its not smoke.

[TRFrance]

Did he not heal but just one among that great throng of people that day?

He didn't heal Lazarus.. can you imagine the rumors going around that Jesus couldnt even heal his best friend.. of course now we know it was for a purpose.. it wasnt Gods will for him to be healed....

and that is the point I am trying to make... if anyone would at least be reasonable and hear me... I'm not bringing Jesus down... I am saying not everyone is supposed to be healed.. is that tooo far out to comprehend?
I think I have been very reasonable with you, Vaughn, but I have observed this for a few days now. You seem to have this fixation with glorifying the ministry of a dead man.

I think you really need to take the blinders off brother.

Whether or not it's your intent, your posts are beginning to take on the unhealthy stench of hero-worship. Personally, I've found the content and tone of many of your posts to be very disturbing, and grievous to my spirit.

[pelathais]

All I can give you are the congressmans own words.... is that fair enough?

http://en.believethesign.com/index.php?title=Upshaw_tract
Those are not the Congressman's words. Those are the words of "Believethesign.com."

If the man was healed, surely his family would have preserved the memory. I'd think that even the starchy old Baptists that the Congressman worked with late in his life would comment on him walking around the last two years of his life. But I haven't found anything other than repostings of the Believethesign.com article. Even Wikipedia was infected with the cut-and-paste.

I was really hoping for some corroboration, Bro. Like I said, a friend of mine had told me that he saw healings at Branham's meetings. And despite the fact that now days I'm something of a skeptic about such claims - I still believe in the possibility.

Hey, when the doctors have failed, when the preacher has failed - there's still the placebo effect! And I don't say that entirely in jest. It's a real and well documented phenomena. There's always hope.

[Rico]

Just as I exalt God when I exalt Christ because GOD was IN CHRIST... just as I exhalt God when I exalt Peter, God was with Peter..... I do the same when I exalt Bro. Branhams memory because GOD was with Bro. Branham

Nicodemus..,, sums it up
"no man can do the miracles you do except GOD BE WITH HIM"

So, if God is with someone... such as Bro. Barnes.. and we sit around and talk about Bro. Barnes and all the things God did in his ministry... are we not in fact exalting God at the same time....


Once again, wrong answer. Paul warned against the sort of thing you are describing.


12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. 13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
1 Cor 1:12-13 (KJV)


We are to identify with Christ, not the preacher, pastor, or a man who died 40 years ago that had a healing ministry. The things you say revolve around Branham, not Christ.

[Dr. Vaughn]

Pelathais.. please stand corrected... the tract I linked you to was THE TRACT written by the CONGRESSMAN HIMSELF.. research more and get back with me....

but you know what.. the man could come on this forum from the dead.. testify of his healing and there would still be something wrong with it

[Broken]

Pelathais.. please stand corrected... the tract I linked you to was THE TRACT written by the CONGRESSMAN HIMSELF.. research more and get back with me....

but you know what.. the man could come on this forum from the dead.. testify of his healing and there would still be something wrong with it


:drama

[bkstokes]

Go ahead gentlemen... tear it to pieces... destroy this testimony with pre-concieved disdain for Bro. Branham

V

I don't disdain how God used Branham. I believe the Lord used him and other ministers to build faith. It was surely needed after that great and terrible war called WWII. However, just because God uses someone in healing does not mean we should follow all of his doctrine. Look at what happened to Oral Roberts in the tower.

As a side note, my father (biological) has/is continually used in the gifts of healings. The Lord has used him to pray for people and cancers, etc. have been healed. Nevertheless, I do not believe exactly as my dad does. He is an ole country boy from Mississippi and he was never able to complete high school. Thus, he does not have as trained a mind.

I look at Branham in the same light. He was no Word scholar.

[TRFrance]

What he is doing is no different that those that talk about the miracles that are done under Stoneking, Cole, or any of our signs and wonders guys. Yes, we don't agree with his dispensationalism in regards to Branham being 'the prophet' in the way they teach, but just because it doesn't come from our chimney it doesn't mean its not smoke.
Huh?
Come on now. Lets get real here, Erik.

1... Stoneking, Cole, and "our signs and wonders guys", as you put it, have not said the things about themselves that Branham has said about himself.

2... UPC churches don't revere Stoneking, Cole, etc anywhere near the level that the Branhamites revere and exalt William Branham.

[pelathais]

Pelathais.. please stand corrected... the tract I linked you to was THE TRACT written by the CONGRESSMAN HIMSELF.. research more and get back with me....

but you know what.. the man could come on this forum from the dead.. testify of his healing and there would still be something wrong with it
Again, I have no way to substantiate that these are the words of the congressman. There is absolutely nothing outside of Branhamite writings that even mention this event. The few sources that do come up are obviously copied from the same Branham tract. They're not even reworded, they're just straight out cut-and-paste, like someone was trying to disseminate that same info all over the place without really working at it.

And your response to my inquiry isn't particularly helpful either. How does "There ain't no proof" bolster your claims?

Please, don't be edgy, and understand that we are somewhat limited in this kind of forum when it comes to expressing ourselves. Sometimes we come across as terse or "short" when really our hearts are full but our keyboards don't convey that.

I respect the memory of William Branham and kind of wonder about it. But I am confused and even troubled when this becomes the thrust of the Gospel message.

[Dr. Vaughn]

TRFrance,, it the challenge no-one has risen to.. Ill try again

you just said "the things Branham has said about himself"

Have I not posted enough of his quotes to prove to the contrary.. that he thought NOTHINg of himself.. he never said ONE TIME

[HeavenlyOne]

So Rico,, all those reaching out to him.. were there just to touch the man? Do you honestly propose NO ONE else was there for healing from the great healer?

The blind man was not healed the first either....

In Jesus home town he could perform NO MIRACLES ----

Matt 13:58 And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

Why could he not do many mighty works??? He should have been able to see the sick healed...... anywhere he went..... I can only imagine the whispers when he was there... "why are the sick still sick"

It's not that He couldn't. He chose not to because the people didn't believe. It's no different than today. If we don't believe, we don't receive.

[Dr. Vaughn]

Pelathais.... I appreciate your tone and it is never my intention to be rude to my brothers in Christ....

However, when it is plain to see that this tract was written by COngressman Upshaw.. it seems to me you might not being fair in at least acknowledging it.

Please,, I humbly ask.. so the board has the benefit of knowing the truth... scroll down to the bottom of the page and see the authors name and address.. and also the address he gives for people who wish to donate to his Charity.......

this is all I ask

Here is the Link again - http://en.believethesign.com/index.php?title=Upshaw_tract

[Broken]

My mind runneth over with thoughts and I am reserving my judgmental, arrogant statements.

Good night

[pelathais]

Pelathais.... I appreciate your tone and it is never my intention to be rude to my brothers in Christ....

However, when it is plain to see that this tract was written by COngressman Upshaw.. it seems to me you might not being fair in at least acknowledging it.

Please,, I humbly ask.. so the board has the benefit of knowing the truth... scroll down to the bottom of the page and see the authors name and address.. and also the address he gives for people who wish to donate to his Charity.......

this is all I ask

Here is the Link again - http://en.believethesign.com/index.php?title=Upshaw_tract
That's a different tract entirely from the one I kept coming up with, thanks.

[pelathais]

My mind runneth over with thoughts and I am reserving my judgmental, arrogant statements.

Good night
Oh c'mon! It's the Internet! It cries out for your "judgmental, arrogant statements!" :toofunny

[Apocrypha]

Huh?
Come on now. Lets get real here, Erik.

1... Stoneking, Cole, and "our signs and wonders guys", as you put it, have not said the things about themselves that Branham has said about himself.

2... UPC churches don't revere Stoneking, Cole, etc anywhere near the level that the Branhamites revere and exalt William Branham.


Its a matter of degree, theres plenty of Stoneking groupies out there.

[Dr. Vaughn]

Pelathais... is it so hard to admit that perhaps you were wrong about this not being a real miracle? You've seen the tract..... you see that the thing about these debates.. no one is ever wrong..... I stood corrected earlier in another post...... and any time I have given concrete evidence contrary to statements made about Bro. Branham... no one ever acknowledges it.. the subject just dissapears.....

So, I ask you.... was this is as you tried to make us believe.... only made by by the Branham people?

[Bro-Larry]

It's not that He couldn't. He chose not to because the people didn't believe. It's no different than today. If we don't believe, we don't receive.

HO, I, in no way am saying this in support of WMB. But Mk 6:5 says that in Nazereth, "he could there do no mighty work, save that He laid His hands upon a few sick folk and healed them". Even Jesus COULD NOT over ride someone's unbelief. Vs. 7: "And He marvelled because of their unbelief."

Most every christian will say that God can do anything, but He can't .
He can't go against His word. He can't lie or break His word. When He gave mankind dominion over the earth, it gave man the right to make the wrong choices, (e.i. Adam and Eve). So unless some one agrees with and believes God's word, it just won't work for them, No matter if Jesus Himself lays hands on them. If God were to over ride a mankind's will, He would be a liar.

[Dr. Vaughn]

Heavenly ONe.. you said that it was NOT that Jesus COULDNT do miracles and heal them all..... but scriptures say plainly HE COULDN'T

[Dr. Vaughn]

Pelathais... you stated not everyone was healed in Branhams meetings.... what about Jesus meetings?

But Mk 6:5 says that in Nazereth, "he could there do no mighty work, save that He laid His hands upon a few sick folk and healed them". Even Jesus COULD NOT over ride someone's unbelief

[HeavenlyOne]

HO, I, in no way am saying this in support of WMB. But Mk 6:5 says that in Nazereth, "he could there do no mighty work, save that He laid His hands upon a few sick folk and healed them". Even Jesus COULD NOT over ride someone's unbelief. Vs. 7: "And He marvelled because of their unbelief."

Most every christian will say that God can do anything, but He can't .
He can't go against His word. He can't lie or break His word. When He gave mankind dominion over the earth, it gave man the right to make the wrong choices, (e.i. Adam and Eve). So unless some one agrees with and believes God's word, it just won't work for them, No matter if Jesus Himself lays hands on them. If God were to over ride a mankind's will, He would be a liar.

This I agree with, but it's not what the good doctor was referring to in principle. He is saying that Jesus was unable to heal some people like Branham was unable to heal people.

[HeavenlyOne]

Heavenly ONe.. you said that it was NOT that Jesus COULDNT do miracles and heal them all..... but scriptures say plainly HE COULDN'T

And why couldn't He? Not because He was unable, as you assert. If someone doesn't believe they can or will be healed, they cannot be. God can't do it...but not because He's unable. Unbelief stops God from working in the unbeliever's life.

[HeavenlyOne]

Pelathais... you stated not everyone was healed in Branhams meetings.... what about Jesus meetings?

But Mk 6:5 says that in Nazereth, "he could there do no mighty work, save that He laid His hands upon a few sick folk and healed them". Even Jesus COULD NOT over ride someone's unbelief

There is no verse nor recording that says Jesus prayed over someone or laid hands on them and they weren't healed. Not one. Even in the verse you quote, it says that Jesus did lay hands on a few and they were healed.

[Dr. Vaughn]

and many others WERE NOT.. the entire premise is this... if there were people in Branhams meetings without faith.. it was impossible for them to be healed.. and like Lazarus if some of them did indeed have faith.. like Lazarus did.. it was not the Will of God for them to be healed at that time.. any argument with that?

[Steve Epley]

There were folks healed in Branham meetings-Coe's meetings-Allen's meetings-Robert's meetings-Barnes' meetings- hey I have even had one or two healed in meetings I preached but I promise if anyone got their healing JESUS did it.
Speaking of Elder Barnes was there a Barnes Tabernacle?
Not even a Allen Tabernacle? As flamboyant as he was yet NO Allen Tabernacle?

Humility is as humility does. O am so humble if you don't believe it come to Epley Tabernacle and see?:happydance:bliss

[bkstokes]

and many others WERE NOT.. the entire premise is this... if there were people in Branhams meetings without faith.. it was impossible for them to be healed.. and like Lazarus if some of them did indeed have faith.. like Lazarus did.. it was not the Will of God for them to be healed at that time.. any argument with that?

V

A question: Do you go to the Branhamites conventions/meetings?

[Dr. Vaughn]

Stokes.,, I do if they are not Branhamites... I do not fellowship with Branhamites,, they disgust me.. However I love fellowshipping with those who follow the Message

[bkstokes]

Stokes.,, I do if they are not Branhamites... I do not fellowship with Branhamites,, they disgust me.. However I love fellowshipping with those who follow the Message

Ok

I am not in the loop with all the jargon -- what is the difference between the two?

[Dr. Vaughn]

Branhamites believe Branham was divine, that his every word was God Inspired.. that he was without mistakes of any kind.......

Those of us who "follow the Message" believe in the Message more than the Messenger.. we believe God used Bro. Branham to call the Bride out of the Church System.. to draw her to the Pure Word of God... to prepare for the soon coming rapture.. we believe Bro. Branham indeed was the VOICE that God raised up to bring this message.. However, we do not believe he was divine,, we do not believe he will raise from the dead, we do not believe every word he spoke was divine.....

[Dr. Vaughn]

Also Stokes.. I just returned from Ohio where 3500 people gathered for a revival meeting... all follow Bro. Branhams message.. yet many of them go to Pentecostal churches because there are no Message Churches in their area

[bkstokes]

Branhamites believe Branham was divine, that his every word was God Inspired.. that he was without mistakes of any kind.......

Those of us who "follow the Message" believe in the Message more than the Messenger.. we believe God used Bro. Branham to call the Bride out of the Church System.. to draw her to the Pure Word of God... to prepare for the soon coming rapture.. we believe Bro. Branham indeed was the VOICE that God raised up to bring this message.. However, we do not believe he was divine,, we do not believe he will raise from the dead, we do not believe every word he spoke was divine.....

Well it is good that you don't think he is divine. In the NT bride and church are synonimous terms.

[Dr. Vaughn]

This is not true.. the church I speak of is the systems and denominations of men.. from that church God has called his Bride out.. to "come out from among her" not to come out from the world in that verse but the religious systems

[bkstokes]

This is not true.. the church I speak of is the systems and denominations of men.. from that church God has called his Bride out.. to "come out from among her" not to come out from the world in that verse but the religious systems

We are talking about two different things. Everybody knows that the Church of Jesus Christ is not a particular denomination, etc. There is the church universal which is made up of many local churches. The church universal is the bride of Christ.

Except the Lord labor, they that labor -- labor in vain. V the Lord builds His church and someone doesn't have to listen to WB in order to be in it. You guys are just making things more complicated then they need to be.

[Dr. Vaughn]

Actually.... we always see the BRIDE coming out of the BODY

We see Eve coming from the side of the first Son of God, Adam
We see the Bride of Christ coming from the side of the Son of God, Jesus
and we believe that everyone who has been saved makes up the Body.. but the Bride will be the choice part of that Body... those who have drawn nigh unto him with more than just lip service

[bkstokes]

Actually.... we always see the BRIDE coming out of the BODY

We see Eve coming from the side of the first Son of God, Adam
We see the Bride of Christ coming from the side of the Son of God, Jesus
and we believe that everyone who has been saved makes up the Body.. but the Bride will be the choice part of that Body... those who have drawn nigh unto him with more than just lip service

Like I have told you before, all that stuff may sound pretty, but all you got is allegory. Show me text in the bible that clearly states that the bride is different from the church. You won't find it.

[Dr. Vaughn]

Oh absolutely brother.....

There are those who will live in the city,, and there are those who will live outside the city,,,,

Jesus speaking to the saved church.. the ones who have called on his name even in baptism...... "depart from me" I never KNEW YOU... I don;t need to tell you the meaning of KNEW as I am sure you know,,, they were never in relationship with him... and they were not allowed to enter the rapture.....

Also 10 virgins,... to be called a virgin was what the church was called.. these were all church members.. all of a high moral order but only half heard the call... only hald made the rapture