Barak Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination

[JaneEyre]

Comments?

One word or one sentence comments.

[SDG]

Ladies and Gentlemen ... the President of the United States of America.

[CC1]

Heaven help us.

[SoCaliUPC]

Heaven help us.

Ditto.

[Blubayou]

Socal- Good to see you checking in. I have missed your posting. This nomination is very distressing- but I wonder if we are not seeing prophecy fulfilled.

[Pressing-On]

Ditto.

Double ditto!

[SoCaliUPC]

Socal- Good to see you checking in. I have missed your posting. This nomination is very distressing- but I wonder if we are not seeing prophecy fulfilled.

Prophecy fulfilled? What do you see as prophecy here?

[AmazingGrace]

What is sad and I think is funny too is how now they are saying that Billary is considering DEMANDING?????? The VP??? Since when does someone get the honor of demanding they be vice president?

But with all the accusations against bill coming out again Obama would be utterly stupid to say yes!

[chosenbyone]

What is sad and I think is funny too is how now they are saying that Billary is considering DEMANDING?????? The VP??? Since when does someone get the honor of demanding they be vice president?

But with all the accusations against bill coming out again Obama would be utterly stupid to say yes!

Think JFK and LBJ!

JFK picked LBJ in order to squelch the rancor and to unite the party. With the amount of clout she garnered during the nomination campaign, Hillary could demand to be picked just like LBJ or threaten to not enthusiastically endorse Obama. If she chose the later then Obama would have a difficult if not impossible time winning the race.

[Esther]

Heaven help us.

Amen we NEED to PRAY for our nation!

[Hoovie]

In the words of his pastor... "Our chickens... are comin home... to roost!!!!!

[CC1]

The irony is that anyone not voting for Obama will be labeled a racist wehn his skin color has absolutely nothing to do with the myriad of reasons one should not vote for him.

Never has a Presidential canidate had such close past associations with absolute left wing radicals.

Obama makes George McGovern look conservative.

In a year the Dems should gain the Presidency in a cakewalk I have to hope that all of this will cause enough Americans to pause in their rush for "change" long enough to come to their senses and vote for the other Democrat - McCain.

[Sweet Pea]

Heaven help us.



mega dittos!

[Ron]

No better than the alternative!

[StMark]

This has me very sober in my spirit and to think that so many
dumb americans are being deceived! I'm just not getting it !
WHY???? WHY is this happening??????????






.

[AbundantGrace]

Comments?

One word or one sentence comments.

National Suicide!!!

[StMark]

National Suicide!!!


BUT WHY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SOUNWORTHY]

Because we have too few real America loving Americans left in America. These are people who come here to reap the benefits but never really pledge their allegiance to our country..now these people are voting. The thing I can't understand, there are "Christians" who stand up for Obama.

If we knowingly vote for a hard core liberal will we be accountable for the death of the millions of infants that will be killed as well as the rejection of Isareal plus many other things that may happen. Just a thought.

[Baron1710]

What is sad and I think is funny too is how now they are saying that Billary is considering DEMANDING?????? The VP??? Since when does someone get the honor of demanding they be vice president?

But with all the accusations against bill coming out again Obama would be utterly stupid to say yes!

Michael Reagan was commenting on Hillary as VP this morning and made the comment that Hillary would want to be Co-President and with her and Bill it would make an awkward threesome.

[Saved]

This has me very sober in my spirit and to think that so many
dumb americans are being deceived! I'm just not getting it !
WHY???? WHY is this happening??????????






.

Please explain why anyone who chooses to vote for Obama should be considered "dumb" or "deceived"...I would rather have a president who is true to him/herself and then one who vasilates with time like Mr. Mccain.

[Saved]

Because we have too few real America loving Americans left in America. These are people who come here to reap the benefits but never really pledge their allegiance to our country..now these people are voting. The thing I can't understand, there are "Christians" who stand up for Obama.

If we knowingly vote for a hard core liberal will we be accountable for the death of the millions of infants that will be killed as well as the rejection of Isareal plus many other things that may happen. Just a thought.

People will make their own decisions, regardless of a presidents do or don'ts. Voting for Obama is not a pledge to kill of thousands or regect Isreal, it simple voting for someone whom you agree with on most points and can follow as a leader. I am sure there things McCain has done and/or will do things that will fly in the face of Christiandom....too many assume just because he is republican that he is poised in the right seat for all Christians. Give me someone who is true to himself over someone who can't and I will vote for him any day.

[Mr. Steinway]

Racism trumps Sexism!

[CC1]

Don't forget folks, if you don't vote for Obama that means you are racist. (we now have the ultimate race card being played)

[rgcraig]

Don't forget folks, if you don't vote for Obama that means you are racist. (we now have the ultimate race card being played)

I'm just NOT voting for the 50% white side of him - - is that better?

[bethola]

Well, we have had a VP that didn't know how to spell and now a "possible" President that doesn't know how many states he will be serving. Don't they teach GEOGRAPHY and HISTORY anymore in school?

[SDG]

People will make their own decisions, regardless of a presidents do or don'ts. Voting for Obama is not a pledge to kill of thousands or regect Isreal, it simple voting for someone whom you agree with on most points and can follow as a leader. I am sure there things McCain has done and/or will do things that will fly in the face of Christiandom....too many assume just because he is republican that he is poised in the right seat for all Christians. Give me someone who is true to himself over someone who can't and I will vote for him any day.

Yep.

This idea that voting for Obama is unChristian ... and the attempt to spiritualize this with end-prophecy ... hail Mary prayers ... and other comments in this thread ... such as "national suicides, dumb", etc. ..

is is what at times makes some Evangelicals and Fundamentalist seem extremist to the general population. Do we believe in the Bill of Rights, or not?

The world is not ending ... America has the backbone and, skeletal, and exoskeletal structure and thick epedermis to endure a presidency of a NON- WASPish leader ... I hope.

Long live the Constitution!!

[SDG]

Don't forget folks, if you don't vote for Obama that means you are racist. (we now have the ultimate race card being played)

Disagree. However, Obama has for the most part not played this card either ... until it became an issue that he did not bring but had to address ... i.e. his INCLUSIVE race speech.

America is growing in this area ... as evident by this historic nomination ... 45 years after Dr. King's speech for a color-blind society.

Truth is he's where he is because whites have voted for him.

[CC1]

Yep.

This idea that voting for Obama is unChristian ... and the attempt to spiritualize this with end-prophecy ... hail Mary prayers ... and other comments in this thread ... such as "national suicides, dumb", etc. ..

is is what at times makes some Evangelicals and Fundamentalist seem extremist to the general population. Do we believe in the Bill of Rights, or not?

The world is not ending ... America has the backbone and, skeletal, and exoskeletal structure to endure a presidency of a NON- WASPish leader ... I hope.

Long live the Constitution!!

Voting for a canidate who opposes partial birth abortion vs one who approves of it is IMPORTANT. I don't care if the rest of the world thinks we are "extemist".

I see them as "extremist" promoting gay marriage, abortion, etc.

[CC1]

Disagree. However, Obama has for the most part not played this card either ... until it became an issue that he did not bring but had to address ... i.e. his INCLUSIVE race speech.

America is growing in this area ... as evident by this historic nomination ... 45 years after Dr. King's speech for a color-blind society.

Truth is he's where he is because whites have voted for him.

Obama doesn't have to play the race card himself. His surrogates do it for him. The Al Sharptons and Jesse Jacksons, etc.

Remember the threats that there would be riots in the streets if Hillary got the nominiation rather than Obama?

[deltaguitar]

Well, . . . Obama getting elected might push the republicans to get their act together. I highly doubt he can get elected though. There is just to much to overcome and the seniors like McCain.

[SDG]

Voting for a canidate who opposes partial birth abortion vs one who approves of it is IMPORTANT. I don't care if the rest of the world thinks we are "extemist".

I see them as "extremist" promoting gay marriage, abortion, etc.

Which John McCain are you voting for the one who is pro-abortion or anti-abortion? The one that is pro-gay marriage or anti-gay marriage ...?

If you were voting for a true man w/ integrity and principles ... and he was truly conservative in his voting record ... I'd vote for him too.

McCain is Clinton in elephant's skin clothing. He's poll-driven and a chamaleon who changes colors during campaigns.

Keep him. Obama will be our next president.

I'm not a single or handful issue voter ...

[Falla39]

Amen we NEED to PRAY for our nation!

Amen, Sis. Esther,

Great Lord God,

Your Word tells us that EXCEPT the LORD build the house, they labor
in vain that build. Your Word also tells us that EXCEPT the LORD KEEP
the CITY, the watchman waketh but in vain.

ALMIGHTY GOD, we humbly ask that YOU would KEEP our NATION!!
For if YOU do not KEEP our nation, we might as well sleep on!!

Falla39

[SDG]

Obama doesn't have to play the race card himself. His surrogates do it for him. The Al Sharptons and Jesse Jacksons, etc.

Remember the threats that there would be riots in the streets if Hillary got the nominiation rather than Obama?

What? Jackson has been quiet during this campaign ... and Sharpton has been in the Clinton camp.

Actually Sharpton has been vocal against Obama for most of the campaign.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/anderson/301930,CST-EDT-MONROE18.article

http://www.nypost.com/seven/04292008/news/regionalnews/sharpton_raps_obama_108577.htm

and now is keeping his support for Obama SILENT.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2008/03/19/2008-03-19_during_rally_al_sharpton_says_hes_keepin.html


You listen to too much talk radio, CC. It's evident in your political postings.

I'm a Rush Head .... but I won't regurgitate them verbatim. Nor will I become a clone.

[A_PoMo]

Obama doesn't have to play the race card himself. His surrogates do it for him. The Al Sharptons and Jesse Jacksons, etc.

Remember the threats that there would be riots in the streets if Hillary got the nominiation rather than Obama?

sharpton and jackson are not obama's surrogates by any stretch of the imagination. the only people who played the race card were the white cracker clintons. obama only responded, reluctantly, to their and their surrogate's charges. sharpton and jackson are the past and they know it. they just play to the old school crowd and get their amens and speaking fees and milk the cow until they're all dead. very few people below the age of forty take them seriously. obama conncects most effectively with an entirely different generation than sharpton and jackson, one that is less segregated and more open to racially inclusion than the older generations.

i'm a former ditto head.

[SDG]

sharpton and jackson are not obama's surrogates by any stretch of the imagination. the only people who played the race card where the white cracker clintons. obama only responded, reluctantly, to their and their surrogate's charges. sharpton and jackson are the past and they know it. they just play to the old school crowd and get their amens and speaking fees and milk the cow until they're all dead. very few people below the age of forty take them seriously. obama conncects most effectively with an entirely different generation than sharpton and jackson, one that is less segregated and more open to racially inclusion than the older generations.


Riots in the streets? Really? Why would there be riots, CC?

[A_PoMo]

Riots in the streets? Really? Why would there be riots, CC?

"Can't we all just get along?" :bliss

[CC1]

What? Jackson has been quiet during this campaign ... and Sharpton has been in the Clinton camp.

Actually Sharpton has been vocal against Obama for most of the campaign.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/anderson/301930,CST-EDT-MONROE18.article

http://www.nypost.com/seven/04292008/news/regionalnews/sharpton_raps_obama_108577.htm

and now is keeping his support for Obama SILENT.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2008/03/19/2008-03-19_during_rally_al_sharpton_says_hes_keepin.html


You listen to too much talk radio, CC. It's evident in your political postings.

I'm a Rush Head .... but I won't regurgitate them verbatim. Nor become become a clone.

My dear DA I have been a political junkie since the age of 14. I was a card carrying Republican at age 16, two years before I could vote.

I was involved in all of these matters long before talk radio. I resent your statement that I am some mind numbed robot regurgitating talk radio talking points. I was neck deep in policy wonk debates probably before you were born. I was arguing welfare policy and other government programs with my High Scool government teachers in the 9th grade.

[SDG]

My dear DA I have been a political junkier since the age of 14. I was a card carrying Republican at age 16, two years before I could vote.

I was involved in all of these matters long before talk radio. I resent your statement that I am some mind numbed robot regurgitating talk radio talking points. I was neck deep in policy wonk debates probably before you were born. I was arguing welfare policy and other government programs with my High Scool government teachers in the 9th grade.

Impressive resume ... definitely conservative ... Like I.

But your surrogate remark WAY WAY OFF MARK!!!

[CC1]

Riots in the streets? Really? Why would there be riots, CC?

Several black "leaders" publicly said that if Hillary "stole" the nomination from Obama that there would be riots in the streets at the Dem Convention.

Google it. I did not make that up. I read and saw on TV them say it with my own eyes and ears.

[deltaguitar]

Which John McCain are you voting for the one who is pro-abortion or anti-abortion. The one that is pro-gay marriage or anti-gay marriage ...

If you were voting for a true man w/ integrity and principles ... and he was truly conservative in his voting record ... I'd vote for him too.

McCain is Clinton in elephant's skin clothing. He's poll-driven and a chamaleon who changes colors during campaigns.

Keep him. Obama will be our next president.

I think one of the biggest issues is going to be healthcare. McCain is way more conservative than Hillary or Obama on this issue. Once you give people a "free" benefit the actual cost just explode. I would love to see some great minds get together and find a way to help our healthcare cost problems. The thought the government controlling my well being is scary.

[SDG]

Several black "leaders" publicly said that if Hillary "stole" the nomination from Obama that there would be riots in the streets at the Dem Convention.

Google it. I did not make that up. I read and saw on TV them say it with my own eyes and ears.

Jackson or Sharpton ... which of these surrogates orchestrated these comments?

Is this a highly charged issue for some ... of course. See slavery and segregation ... but to assume that it will happen because a couple of knuckleheads express hyperbolic free speech ...

is either not reading in between the lines ... or presumes that blacks can't handle a loss in this election w/ dignity and class.

Bill feels his wife has been the victim of a conspiracy and has been robbed too ... and has expressed this ... a former President, no less.

It's rhetoric, CC.

[CC1]

sharpton and jackson are not obama's surrogates by any stretch of the imagination. the only people who played the race card were the white cracker clintons. obama only responded, reluctantly, to their and their surrogate's charges. sharpton and jackson are the past and they know it. they just play to the old school crowd and get their amens and speaking fees and milk the cow until they're all dead. very few people below the age of forty take them seriously. obama conncects most effectively with an entirely different generation than sharpton and jackson, one that is less segregated and more open to racially inclusion than the older generations.

i'm a former ditto head.

I agree with a lot of what you say here.

While I don't think Obama himself will play the race card I do believe he is presenting himself as something he is not. He wants to appear as mainstream and a "unifier" when his past as a liberal activist in Chicago proves otherwise.

You don't sit and listen to the garbage his pastor spewed for 20 years and not leave if you are "mainstream" and not a radical.

Did you hear his church last Sunday cheering on that crazy RC priest as he called Hillary a white supremicist? Is that a "mainstream" group of people for Obama to have aligned himself with for the past 20 years?

Obama hides his extreme left wing agenda behind great oratory that does inspire and catches the imagination of young people and shallow mush heads who don't look beneath the surface.

At the end of the day he not only is the most left leaning canidate since George McGovern to run for President but he is also the least experience.

It is mind blowing that either party would nominate a canidate with only two years experience in the Senate and a few years as a state legislator before that.

[DividedThigh]

that is a joke to say that obama did not interject race into this nomination process, he is the one making speeches and going to selma and claiming to be down for the struggle, yeah of course he is, my goodness, dt

[CC1]

Jackson or Sharpton ... which of these surrogates orchestrated these comments?

Is this a highly charged issue for some ... of course. See slavery and segregation ... but to assume that it will happen because a couple of knuckleheads express free speech ...

is either not reading in between the lines ... or presumes that blacks can't handle a loss in this election w/ dignity and class.

Bill feels his wife has been the victim of a conspiracy and has been robbed too ... and has expressed this ... a former President.

It's rhetoric, CC.

No less an intellectual giant than Rosanne Barr on her radio show called for these riots so it was not all civil rights activist has beens. LOL!!

BTW - I think you are wrong about it just being rhetoric. I full well believe that if Hillary had pulled off getting enough superdelegates to support her to have taken the nomination from Obama after he received the most elected delegates, there would have been riots at the convention.

How do you so easily dismiss the radical attitudes and perpsective shown by the Pastor Jeremiah sermonss? That church cheered those crazy statements like they were true. THOSE are the same crazy folks who would riot if denied their first black Presidential nominiee.

[SDG]

No less an intellectual giant than Rosanne Barr on her radio show called for these riots so it was not all civil rights activist has beens. LOL!!

BTW - I think you are wrong about it just being rhetoric. I full well believe that if Hillary had pulled off getting enough superdelegates to support her to have taken the nomination from Obama after he received the most elected delegates, there would have been riots at the convention.

How do you so easily dismiss the radical attitudes and perpsective shown by the Pastor Jeremiah sermonss? That church cheered those crazy statements like they were true. THOSE are the same crazy folks who would riot if denied their first black Presidential nominiee.

You are entitled to an opinion CC ...

there have been riots at conventions before.

[OnTheFritz]

Yep.

This idea that voting for Obama is unChristian ... and the attempt to spiritualize this with end-prophecy ... hail Mary prayers ... and other comments in this thread ... such as "national suicides, dumb", etc. ..

is is what at times makes some Evangelicals and Fundamentalist seem extremist to the general population. Do we believe in the Bill of Rights, or not?

The world is not ending ... America has the backbone and, skeletal, and exoskeletal structure and thick epedermis to endure a presidency of a NON- WASPish leader ... I hope.

Long live the Constitution!!

Amen to that. :drama

[DividedThigh]

i just find it hard to believe that you danny, a person i think is bright could support the most liberal candidate to ever run for pres, and on top of that , a man with no practical experience running anything, dt

[SDG]

i just find it hard to believe that you danny, a person i think is bright could support the most liberal candidate to ever run for pres, and on top of that , a man with no practical experience running anything, dt

DT ... most liberal? Anymore liberal than Clinton was?

Surely we became socialists in the 90's

Give me a break. Let's have a serious discussion.

He's a Senator like McCain ... hello.

[DividedThigh]

he is by there own measure in the senate most lib and has the least of experience among any of the candidates, what are you danny in denial, dt

[SDG]

he is by there own measure in the senate most lib and has the least of experience among any of the candidates, what are you danny in denial, dt

You like the word "most" ... don't you?

[Mr. Steinway]

I haven't decided who I will vote for yet! I've been a republican for 35 years, in fact I was the VP of the Young Republicans of our county back in the day.

I'm trying to get excited about McCain, but I can't so far!

[DividedThigh]

danny you vote for who you want to, that is your privelege, but dont request a serious discussion and act like that, whatever you want from the govt, if elected i hope obama gives it to you, i think he is a disaster waiting to happen tax and foreign policy wise for this country, carry on danny i still like you, dt

[DividedThigh]

I haven't decided who I will vote for yet! I've been a republican for 35 years, in fact I was the VP of the Young Republicans of our county back in the day.

I'm trying to get excited about McCain, but I can't so far!

i agree pm , i feel as if he was rammed down our throats, i believe he could be a good president if he can ever make up his mind what he stands for, that is scary, dt

[CC1]

I haven't decided who I will vote for yet! I've been a republican for 35 years, in fact I was the VP of the Young Republicans of our county back in the day.

I'm trying to get excited about McCain, but I can't so far!

I don't think many people can get excited about McCain but the alternative is disasterous for our country, our kids, and our grand kids.

I have never been one of those to whine about voting for the "lesser of evils". I have been enthusiastic about every Republican canidate except Bob Dole and now McCain.

However there is too much at stake with federal judicial appointments and the fact that the dems are going to pick up huge gains in the House and Senate this fall.

Even if McCain is a moderate Democrat vs. a liberal one that is better than the liberal one and someone is going to have to keep the huge new Democrat majority in both houses of Congress in check.

[DividedThigh]

I don't think many people can get excited about McCain but the alternative is disasterous for our country, our kids, and our grand kids.

I have never been one of those to whine about voting for the "lesser of evils". I have been enthusiastic about every Republican canidate except Bob Dole and now McCain.

However there is too much at stake with federal judicial appointments and the fact that the dems are going to pick up huge gains in the House and Senate this fall.

Even if McCain is a moderate Democrat vs. a liberal one that is better than the liberal one and someone is going to have to keep the huge new Democrat majority in both houses of Congress in check.

agreed, cc1, no doubt the judges are my turner for sure, dt

[SDG]

I don't think many people can get excited about McCain but the alternative is disasterous for our country, our kids, and our grand kids.

I have never been one of those to whine about voting for the "lesser of evils". I have been enthusiastic about every Republican canidate except Bob Dole and now McCain.

However there is too much at stake with federal judicial appointments and the fact that the dems are going to pick up huge gains in the House and Senate this fall.

Even if McCain is a moderate Democrat vs. a liberal one that is better than the liberal one and someone is going to have to keep the huge new Democrat majority in both houses of Congress in check.

I now baptize the CHICKEN LITTLE ...

http://www.flooglebinder.com/images/chicken-little.jpg

THE SKY IS FALLING ... THE SKY IS FALLING.

[tstew]

danny you vote for who you want to, that is your privelege, but dont request a serious discussion and act like that, whatever you want from the govt, if elected i hope obama gives it to you, i think he is a disaster waiting to happen tax and foreign policy wise for this country, carry on danny i still like you, dt

I'm just not sure if I feel entirely comfortable with the way the country has been going tax and foreign policy wise (plus many other "wises") in the last 8 years anyway. I am not a supporter of any candidate, but I tend to agree that lumping Obama with Jackson and Sharpton...two men who have not even really endorsed him over Hillary, is an example of the extremist views that are clouding the issues on both sides.

[1Corinth2v4]

:sing:choir:choir:choir

http://texansforobama.typepad.com/blog/images/2007/03/29/obama_hac_logo.gif

[CC1]

I'm just not sure if I feel entirely comfortable with the way the country has been going tax and foreign policy wise (plus many other "wises") in the last 8 years anyway. I am not a supporter of any candidate, but I tend to agree that lumping Obama with Jackson and Sharpton...two men who have not even really endorsed him over Hillary, is an example of the extremist views that are clouding the issues on both sides.


Forget Jackson and Sharpton for a moment. Obama alone has enough extremist views and connections to warrant never being President of the USA.

[SDG]

Forget Jackson and Sharpton for a moment. Obama alone has enough extremist views and connections to warrant never being President of the USA.

No .. no. Why should we ???

They're *whispers* surrogates.

[DividedThigh]

obama with his affliiations couldnt even pass a background check by some sources information, i have never said he was in with jackson and sharpton, obama is for real they arent political wise, but i dont support him, cant, he wants to raise taxes and supports abortion, those the big ones for me, dt

[tstew]

Forget Jackson and Sharpton for a moment. Obama alone has enough extremist views and connections to warrant never being President of the USA.

My point is that I am much more interested in his views than in his "connections". Some of the connections have been tenuous and incidental at best (like with Ayers), but that has been so hyped that it seems to preempt real conversation on his views. Everytime I hear Hannity rave for 30 minutes about that instead of about Obama, it makes him seem less credible and more partisan or vindictive. I want to know about his views and how he has governed and would govern.

[SDG]

My point is that I am much more interested in his views than in his "connections". Some of the connections have been tenuous and incidental at best (like with Ayers), but that has been so hyped that it seems to preempt real conversation on his views. Everytime I hear Hannity rave for 30 minutes about that instead of about Obama, it makes him seem less credible and more partisan or vindictive. I want to know about his views and how he has governed and would govern.

Why are you SO REASONABLE?

[AmazingGrace]

Ok question for Dan and DT... or anyone else...

I asked this last night but it got passed over.

Do yall think he will take Hill as VP? And if so do you think the new accusations against Bill will hurt his race? Or do you think he will totally bypass her for that reason?

[tstew]

Why are you SO REASONABLE?

He and Ayers are two people prominent in the Chicago political scene and have served on boards together and been at the same functions... Ayers did despicable things when Obama was in short pants (no offense dt :). No one has demonstrated any more significant relationship than that.
I just am saying that when you begin to make mountains out of mole hills, people begin to wonder if there really are as many actual mountains as you may claim. Like I said I am not a supporter of any at this point but I am tired of politics and talking heads as usual.

[Encryptus]

A Muslim this close to the White House, and Falwell not available to pronounce it as the judgment of God that it is !!!

:reaction

[DividedThigh]

Ok question for Dan and DT... or anyone else...

I asked this last night but it got passed over.

Do yall think he will take Hill as VP? And if so do you think the new accusations against Bill will hurt his race? Or do you think he will totally bypass her for that reason?

dont know, i was thinking that hillary wouldnt want the vp slot, but she is pretty power hungry, and might want to be a heart beat away from the whitehouse, seriously i just dont know, dt

[tstew]

Ok question for Dan and DT... or anyone else...

I asked this last night but it got passed over.

Do yall think he will take Hill as VP? And if so do you think the new accusations against Bill will hurt his race? Or do you think he will totally bypass her for that reason?

I think he will only do it if he feels it is absolutely necessary to gain her supporters. There are just too many reasons that that could be problematic for him...not the least of which is that we live in a time when many people believe the VP has been actually running the country for two terms now. The office of VP does not seem as ceremonial as it used to. It used to be viewed more as a carrot and a strategic partnership primarily to garner votes.

[SDG]

Ok question for Dan and DT... or anyone else...

I asked this last night but it got passed over.

Do yall think he will take Hill as VP? And if so do you think the new accusations against Bill will hurt his race? Or do you think he will totally bypass her for that reason?

Won't happen.

[chosenbyone]

Ok question for Dan and DT... or anyone else...

I asked this last night but it got passed over.

Do yall think he will take Hill as VP? And if so do you think the new accusations against Bill will hurt his race? Or do you think he will totally bypass her for that reason?

AG,

Read post #9 on this thread! It looked like someone's answer was passed over. :toofunny

CB1

[AmazingGrace]

dont know, i was thinking that hillary wouldnt want the vp slot, but she is pretty power hungry, and might want to be a heart beat away from the whitehouse, seriously i just dont know, dt

Supposedly she has now stated she does want the VP????

[Encryptus]

dont know, i was thinking that hillary wouldnt want the vp slot, but she is pretty power hungry, and might want to be a heart beat away from the whitehouse, seriously i just dont know, dt

Considering some of the internet articles about mysterious deaths of her enemies I would think twice....

[AmazingGrace]

Won't happen.

I pray not!!!!

[AmazingGrace]

AG,

Read post #9 on this thread! It looked like someone's answer was passed over. :toofunny

CB1

Brother! Thank you! I guess its just another one of my blonde moments!!!!!!! Sorry and thanks for the response. That is too what I am afraid will happen but I pray it does not!

[DividedThigh]

amazing grace, i would be surprised if she didnt take it if offered, i read an article that says she demanded it, but who knows, i am sure a lot of the things they have said about each other will be ressurected if they run together, what fun, dt

[DividedThigh]

Considering some of the internet articles about mysterious deaths of her enemies I would think twice....

very interesting, lol, dt

[Hoovie]

I think Obama only wins in Nov if Hillarious is on the ticket.

[DividedThigh]

there has been talk of that, some people even saying that they wont vote for him after vanquishing billary, what fun this will be, dt

[Tina]

Heaven help us.

AMEN!!

Considering some of the internet articles about mysterious deaths of her enemies I would think twice....

I thought the same thing this morning when reading the articles on yahoo news.

[Encryptus]

Considering some of the internet articles about mysterious deaths of her enemies I would think twice....

FOR EXAMPLE:

James McDougal - Clinton’s convicted Whitewater partner died of an apparent heart attack, while in solitary confinement. He was a key witness in Ken Starr’s investigation.

Mary Mahoney - A former White House intern was murdered July 1997 at a Starbucks Coffee Shop in Georgetown. The murder happened just after she was to go public with her story of sexual harassment in the White House.

Vince Foster - Former White House counselor, and colleague of Hillary Clinton at Little Rock’s Rose Law Firm. Died of a gunshot wound to the head, ruled suicide. He also had another 22 gunshot wound in the neck. The gunshot wound to the head was of larger caliber and found still in his hand!!

Ron Brown - Secretary of Commerce and former DNC Chairman. Reported to have died by impact in a plane crash. A pathologist close to the investigation reported that there was a hole in the top of Brown’s skull resembling a gunshot wound. At the time of his death, Brown was being investigated, and spoke publicly of his willingness to cut a deal with prosecutors.

C. Victor Raiser II & Montgomery Raiser - Major players in the Clinton fund-raising organization. Died in a private plane crash in July 1992.

Paul Tulley - Democratic National Committee Political Director found dead in a hotel room in Little Rock, September 1992. Described by Clinton’s a “Dear friend and trusted advisor”.

Ed Willey - Clinton fund raiser, found dead November 1993 deep in the woods in Virginia of a gunshot wound to the head. Ruled a suicide. Ed Willey died on the same day his wife Kathleen Willey claimed Bill Clinton groped her in the oval office in the White House. Ed Willey was involved in several Clinton fund raising events.

Jerry Parks - Head of Clinton’s gubernatorial security team in Little Rock. Gunned down in his car at a deserted intersection outside Little Rock. Park’s son said his father was building a dossier on Clinton. He allegedly threatened to reveal this information. After he died the files were mysteriously removed from his house.

James Bunch - Died from a gunshot suicide. It was reported that he had a “Black Book” of people containing names of influential people who visited prostitutes in Texas and Arkansas.

James Wilson - Was found dead in May 1993 from an apparent hanging suicide. He was reported to have ties to Whitewater.

Kathy Ferguson - Ex-wife of Arkansas Trooper Danny Ferguson. Died in May 1994. She was found dead in her living room with a gunshot to her head. It was ruled a suicide although there were several packed suitcases, as if she was going somewhere. Danny Ferguson was a co- defendant along with Bill Clinton in the Paula Jones lawsuit. Kathy Ferguson was a possible corroborating witness for Paula Jones.

Bill Shelton - Arkansas State Trooper and fiancee of Kathy Ferguson. Critical of the suicide ruling of his fiancee, he was found dead in June, 1994 of a gunshot wound also ruled a suicide at the gravesite of his fiancee.

Gandy Baugh - Attorney for Clinton friend Dan Lassater. Died by jumping out a window of a tall building January, 1994. His client was a convicted drug distributor. One of Clinton’s last duties as Governor of Arkansas was to pardon Dan Lassater convicted on over a hundred drug charges.

Florence Martin - Accountant sub-contractor for the CIA related to the Barry Seal Mena Airport drug smuggling case. Died of three gunshot wounds.

Suzanne Coleman - Reportedly had an affair with Clinton when he was Arkansas Attorney General. Died of a gunshot wound to the back of the head, ruled a suicide. Was pregnant at the time of her death.

Paula Grober - Clinton’s speech interpreter for the deaf from 1978 until her death December 9, 1992. She died in a one-car accident.

Danny Casolaro - Investigative reporter. Investigating Mena Airport and Arkansas Development Finance Authority. He slit his wrists, apparent suicide in the middle of his investigation.

Paul Wilcher - Attorney investigating corruption at Mena Airport with Casolaro and the 1980 “October Surprise” was found dead on a toilet June 22, 1993 in his Washington D.C. apartment. Had delivered a report to Janet Reno 3 weeks before his death.

Jon Parnell Walker - Whitewater investigator for Resolution Trust Corp. Jumped to his death from his Arlington, Virginia apartment balcony August 15, 1993. Was investigating Morgan Guarantee scandal.

Barbara Wise - Commerce Department staffer. Worked closely with Ron Brown and John Huang. Cause of death unknown. Died November 29, 1996. Her bruised nude body was found locked in her office at the Department of Commerce.

Charles Meissner - Assistant Secretary of Commerce who gave John Huang special security clearance, died shortly thereafter in a small plane crash. Dr.

Stanley Heard - Chairman of the National Chiropractic Health Care Advisory Committee. Died with his attorney Steve Dickson in a small plane crash. Dr. Heard, in addition to serving on Clinton’s advisory council, personally treated Clinton’s mother, stepfather and brother.

Barry Seal - Drug running pilot out of Mena Arkansas, death was no accident.

Johnny Lawhorn Jr. - Mechanic, found a check made out to Clinton in the trunk of a car left in his repair shop. Died when his car hit a utility pole.

Stanley Huggins - Suicide. Investigated Madison Guarantee. His report was never released.

Hershell Friday - Attorney and Clinton fundraiser. Died March 1, 1994 when his plane exploded.

Kevin Ives & Don Henry - Known as “The boys on the track” case. Reports say the boys may have stumbled upon the Mena Arkansas airport drug operation. Controversial case where initial report of death was due to falling asleep on railroad track. Later reports claim the 2 boys had been slain before being placed on the tracks. Many linked to the case died before their testimony could come before a Grand Jury.

THE FOLLOWING SIX PERSONS HAD INFORMATION ON THE IVES / HENRY CASE:

Keith Coney - Died when his motorcycle slammed into the back of a truck July, 1988.

Keith McMaskle - Died of 113 stabbed wounds, November 1988.

Gregory Collins - Died from a gunshot wound January 1989.

Jeff Rhodes - He was shot, mutilated and found burned in a trash dump in April 1989.

James Milan - Found decapitated. Coroner ruled death due to natural causes.

Jordan Kettleson - Was found shot to death in the front seat of his pickup truck in June 1990.

Richard Winters - Was a suspect in the Ives / Henry deaths. Was killed in a set-up robbery July 1989.

THE FOLLOWING CLINTON BODYGUARDS ARE DEAD:

Major William S. Barkley Jr.
Captain Scott J. Reynolds
Sgt. Brian Hanley
Sgt. Tim Sabel
Major General William Robertson
Col. William Densberger
Col. Robert Kelly
Spec. Gary Rhodes
Steve Willis
Robert Williams
Conway LeBleu
Todd McKeehan

[tstew]

Just out of curioisity, I went to the National Journal study where they found Obama to be the most Liberal Senator. I wanted to find out more about the criteria. It is interesting reading. He does vote as Liberal on many key issues. He did cross and vote with the conservatives on funding the military.
But I also found this that I thought was curious, in order to get ranked you have to vote on a minimal number of issues I guess to establish a pattern:

"Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., the only other senator whose presidential candidacy survived the initial round of primaries and caucuses this year, did not vote frequently enough in 2007 to draw a composite score. He missed more than half of the votes in both the economic and foreign-policy categories."

[DividedThigh]

interesting, well we will see since we have these two now, huh, dt

[CC1]

FOR EXAMPLE:

James McDougal - Clinton’s convicted Whitewater partner died of an apparent heart attack, while in solitary confinement. He was a key witness in Ken Starr’s investigation.

Mary Mahoney - A former White House intern was murdered July 1997 at a Starbucks Coffee Shop in Georgetown. The murder happened just after she was to go public with her story of sexual harassment in the White House.

Vince Foster - Former White House counselor, and colleague of Hillary Clinton at Little Rock’s Rose Law Firm. Died of a gunshot wound to the head, ruled suicide. He also had another 22 gunshot wound in the neck. The gunshot wound to the head was of larger caliber and found still in his hand!!

Ron Brown - Secretary of Commerce and former DNC Chairman. Reported to have died by impact in a plane crash. A pathologist close to the investigation reported that there was a hole in the top of Brown’s skull resembling a gunshot wound. At the time of his death, Brown was being investigated, and spoke publicly of his willingness to cut a deal with prosecutors.

C. Victor Raiser II & Montgomery Raiser - Major players in the Clinton fund-raising organization. Died in a private plane crash in July 1992.

Paul Tulley - Democratic National Committee Political Director found dead in a hotel room in Little Rock, September 1992. Described by Clinton’s a “Dear friend and trusted advisor”.

Ed Willey - Clinton fund raiser, found dead November 1993 deep in the woods in Virginia of a gunshot wound to the head. Ruled a suicide. Ed Willey died on the same day his wife Kathleen Willey claimed Bill Clinton groped her in the oval office in the White House. Ed Willey was involved in several Clinton fund raising events.

Jerry Parks - Head of Clinton’s gubernatorial security team in Little Rock. Gunned down in his car at a deserted intersection outside Little Rock. Park’s son said his father was building a dossier on Clinton. He allegedly threatened to reveal this information. After he died the files were mysteriously removed from his house.

James Bunch - Died from a gunshot suicide. It was reported that he had a “Black Book” of people containing names of influential people who visited prostitutes in Texas and Arkansas.

James Wilson - Was found dead in May 1993 from an apparent hanging suicide. He was reported to have ties to Whitewater.

Kathy Ferguson - Ex-wife of Arkansas Trooper Danny Ferguson. Died in May 1994. She was found dead in her living room with a gunshot to her head. It was ruled a suicide although there were several packed suitcases, as if she was going somewhere. Danny Ferguson was a co- defendant along with Bill Clinton in the Paula Jones lawsuit. Kathy Ferguson was a possible corroborating witness for Paula Jones.

Bill Shelton - Arkansas State Trooper and fiancee of Kathy Ferguson. Critical of the suicide ruling of his fiancee, he was found dead in June, 1994 of a gunshot wound also ruled a suicide at the gravesite of his fiancee.

Gandy Baugh - Attorney for Clinton friend Dan Lassater. Died by jumping out a window of a tall building January, 1994. His client was a convicted drug distributor. One of Clinton’s last duties as Governor of Arkansas was to pardon Dan Lassater convicted on over a hundred drug charges.

Florence Martin - Accountant sub-contractor for the CIA related to the Barry Seal Mena Airport drug smuggling case. Died of three gunshot wounds.

Suzanne Coleman - Reportedly had an affair with Clinton when he was Arkansas Attorney General. Died of a gunshot wound to the back of the head, ruled a suicide. Was pregnant at the time of her death.

Paula Grober - Clinton’s speech interpreter for the deaf from 1978 until her death December 9, 1992. She died in a one-car accident.

Danny Casolaro - Investigative reporter. Investigating Mena Airport and Arkansas Development Finance Authority. He slit his wrists, apparent suicide in the middle of his investigation.

Paul Wilcher - Attorney investigating corruption at Mena Airport with Casolaro and the 1980 “October Surprise” was found dead on a toilet June 22, 1993 in his Washington D.C. apartment. Had delivered a report to Janet Reno 3 weeks before his death.

Jon Parnell Walker - Whitewater investigator for Resolution Trust Corp. Jumped to his death from his Arlington, Virginia apartment balcony August 15, 1993. Was investigating Morgan Guarantee scandal.

Barbara Wise - Commerce Department staffer. Worked closely with Ron Brown and John Huang. Cause of death unknown. Died November 29, 1996. Her bruised nude body was found locked in her office at the Department of Commerce.

Charles Meissner - Assistant Secretary of Commerce who gave John Huang special security clearance, died shortly thereafter in a small plane crash. Dr.

Stanley Heard - Chairman of the National Chiropractic Health Care Advisory Committee. Died with his attorney Steve Dickson in a small plane crash. Dr. Heard, in addition to serving on Clinton’s advisory council, personally treated Clinton’s mother, stepfather and brother.

Barry Seal - Drug running pilot out of Mena Arkansas, death was no accident.

Johnny Lawhorn Jr. - Mechanic, found a check made out to Clinton in the trunk of a car left in his repair shop. Died when his car hit a utility pole.

Stanley Huggins - Suicide. Investigated Madison Guarantee. His report was never released.

Hershell Friday - Attorney and Clinton fundraiser. Died March 1, 1994 when his plane exploded.

Kevin Ives & Don Henry - Known as “The boys on the track” case. Reports say the boys may have stumbled upon the Mena Arkansas airport drug operation. Controversial case where initial report of death was due to falling asleep on railroad track. Later reports claim the 2 boys had been slain before being placed on the tracks. Many linked to the case died before their testimony could come before a Grand Jury.

THE FOLLOWING SIX PERSONS HAD INFORMATION ON THE IVES / HENRY CASE:

Keith Coney - Died when his motorcycle slammed into the back of a truck July, 1988.

Keith McMaskle - Died of 113 stabbed wounds, November 1988.

Gregory Collins - Died from a gunshot wound January 1989.

Jeff Rhodes - He was shot, mutilated and found burned in a trash dump in April 1989.

James Milan - Found decapitated. Coroner ruled death due to natural causes.

Jordan Kettleson - Was found shot to death in the front seat of his pickup truck in June 1990.

Richard Winters - Was a suspect in the Ives / Henry deaths. Was killed in a set-up robbery July 1989.

THE FOLLOWING CLINTON BODYGUARDS ARE DEAD:

Major William S. Barkley Jr.
Captain Scott J. Reynolds
Sgt. Brian Hanley
Sgt. Tim Sabel
Major General William Robertson
Col. William Densberger
Col. Robert Kelly
Spec. Gary Rhodes
Steve Willis
Robert Williams
Conway LeBleu
Todd McKeehan

Even if you eliminate 2/3 of this list as coincidence the number of deaths and suicides left is astounding. I don't know if the Clinton's are capable of this kind of evil or not but it is interesting statistics.

[DividedThigh]

some of these guys werent that easy to kill either, interesting, lol,dt

[Ron]

Even if you eliminate 2/3 of this list as coincidence the number of deaths and suicides left is astounding. I don't know if the Clinton's are capable of this kind of evil or not but it is interesting statistics.

Yup!

[SOUNWORTHY]

DT ... most liberal? Anymore liberal than Clinton was?

Surely we became socialists in the 90's

Give me a break. Let's have a serious discussion.

He's a Senator like McCain ... hello.

Get serious, the only similarity between Obama and McCain, they are both senators. Don't forget Obama's wife has been proud of America once. I'd almost welcome Bill back.

[Mr. Steinway]

If Obama doesn't pick Hillary as his VP, she could run for president as an independent AND WIN!! In a three way election, Hillary could beat both McCain and Obama. She would win the big states.

This may be what the big hold-up is.

[chosenbyone]

Just out of curioisity, I went to the National Journal study where they found Obama to be the most Liberal Senator. I wanted to find out more about the criteria. It is interesting reading. He does vote as Liberal on many key issues. He did cross and vote with the conservatives on funding the military.
But I also found this that I thought was curious, in order to get ranked you have to vote on a minimal number of issues I guess to establish a pattern:

"Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., the only other senator whose presidential candidacy survived the initial round of primaries and caucuses this year, did not vote frequently enough in 2007 to draw a composite score. He missed more than half of the votes in both the economic and foreign-policy categories."

Thanks for sharing this informative info with us this morning. There is so much news out their that we have yet to learn about McCain and Obama. It's going to be a long, long battle to November.

[tstew]

Thanks for sharing this informative info with us this morning. There is so much news out their that we have yet to learn about McCain and Obama. It's going to be a long, long battle to November.

That's the point I've been trying to make...we've been getting a lot of information from talking heads on all sides, but very little news. I believe that given the global climate (political, social, financial, and environmental) and the decisions that have jeopardized our standing in each of these areas, this will be a very important decision. I'm tired of all the partisan "pundits" and extremists on all sides with the scare tactics and innuendos.
It is impossible to make wise decisions with flawed and skewered information.

[SOUNWORTHY]

I think Obama only wins in Nov if Hillarious is on the ticket.


WOW,talk about a marriage made in hell!! I rather both of them would survive the first four years. Bill couldn't even get along with the screamer, she walked all ove the poor guy. The more I hear about Oshama the more I like Bill.:toofunny

[chosenbyone]

That's the point I've been trying to make...we've been getting a lot of information from talking heads on all sides, but very little news. I believe that given the global climate (political, social, financial, and environmental) and the decisions that have jeopardized our standing in each of these areas, this will be a very important decision. I'm tired of all the partisan "pundits" and extremists on all sides with the scare tactics and innuendos.
It is impossible to make wise decisions with flawed and skewered information.

Hey, brother, you're preaching to the choir!

[George]

DT ... most liberal? Anymore liberal than Clinton was?

Surely we became socialists in the 90's

Give me a break. Let's have a serious discussion.

He's a Senator like McCain ... hello.

His own senate peers labeled Obama the most liberal

[tstew]

Hey, brother, you're preaching to the choir!

Yeah, well I've been a music director long enough to know that they need it the most .
Sunday : :choir
Monday : :thad
Tuesday : :hurtyou
Wednesday: :largehalo
Thursday : :pirates
Friday: :redheels
Saturday: :feral
Sunday : :sing

[tstew]

His own senate peers labeled Obama the most liberal

George, I believe it was the National Journal that labeled him as such. I'm not sure the other Senators voted on that.

[CC1]

Hey, brother, you're preaching to the choir!

Maybe your choir. Not mine.

It is silly for concerns about Obama to just be waved off as having come from "talking heads" on TV.

By any measure he is an extremely liberal Senator. That is FACTUAL from his voting record and previous publicly stated positions. Not from a talking head.

His past close associations are FACT not from some talking head.

No "talking head" forced him to sit for 20 years in a radical church under a radical pastor espousing Black Liberation Theology and accusing the Federal Government of creating AIDS to kill Black people!!!

Puleeeze!!! Stop it with the idea that we are all just stupid numb robots listening to talk radio. We have brains and see the evidence.

[chosenbyone]

Maybe your choir. Not mine.

It is silly for concerns about Obama to just be waved off as having come from "talking heads" on TV.

By any measure he is an extremely liberal Senator. That is FACTUAL from his voting record and previous publicly stated positions. Not from a talking head.

His past close associations are FACT not from some talking head.

No "talking head" forced him to sit for 20 years in a radical church under a radical pastor espousing Black Liberation Theology and accusing the Federal Government of creating AIDS to kill Black people!!!

Puleeeze!!! Stop it with the idea that we are all just stupid numb robots listening to talk radio. We have brains and see the evidence.

Wow!!! Settle down, CC1!

No one stated or implied, at least that I was aware of, that you were a stupid numb(?) robot! Take a deep breath! I am not here to argue, fight or stoop to name calling, friend.

[tstew]

Maybe your choir. Not mine.

It is silly for concerns about Obama to just be waved off as having come from "talking heads" on TV.

By any measure he is an extremely liberal Senator. That is FACTUAL from his voting record and previous publicly stated positions. Not from a talking head.

His past close associations are FACT not from some talking head.

No "talking head" forced him to sit for 20 years in a radical church under a radical pastor espousing Black Liberation Theology and accusing the Federal Government of creating AIDS to kill Black people!!!

Puleeeze!!! Stop it with the idea that we are all just stupid numb robots listening to talk radio. We have brains and see the evidence.

CC I would never make that sort of broad generalization about people that I have never met or know very little about. My whole point agrees with your line about seeing the evidence. I just want to see facts. It is not enough for me to have a faceless group of people tell me that he votes the most liberal. I wanted to see the actual votes and the actual issues and see the criteria and determine for myself whether I agree or disagree with his votes.
According to the rating system, they tell you that they are not grading him as it relates to the issues, but instead on how his votes compare to other politicians. In this day of partisan politics that is not enough for me. I had to see the actual votes and the actual issues.

Here is the link, if anyone is interested. http://nj.nationaljournal.com/voteratings/votes.htm

[DividedThigh]

now we are gettin somewhere, lol, let the games begin, lol

[Ferd]

Here is what I know. he wants to raise my taxes, he wants to increase spending by a trillion dollars, and he wants to loose the war in Iraq. AND he will appoint idiots like Ginsburg to the supreme court.

AND he wants to nationalize health care.

I dont care if he is more conservitive than Attila the Hun. If he wants to do the above, he needs to be elected sewage system cleaner not president.

[tstew]

For example...just to illustrate my point. This is the first vote that is listed:

Establish a Senate Office of Public Integrity to handle ethics complaints against senators. January 18. (27-71) C-1

Obama's vote of Yes is in keeping with what they consider to be the votes of Liberal politicians so that is one in the "negative" ledger.

[mizpeh]

CC I would never make that sort of broad generalization about people that I have never met or know very little about. My whole point agrees with your line about seeing the evidence. I just want to see facts. It is not enough for me to have a faceless group of people tell me that he votes the most liberal. I wanted to see the actual votes and the actual issues and see the criteria and determine for myself whether I agree or disagree with his votes.
According to the rating system, they tell you that they are not grading him as it relates to the issues, but instead on how his votes compare to other politicians. In this day of partisan politics that is not enough for me. I had to see the actual votes and the actual issues.

Here is the link, if anyone is interested. http://nj.nationaljournal.com/voteratings/votes.htm

If we go by votes in the Senate, Obama and Hillary look like they agree on most issues.

[Ferd]

Oh and while we are on the subject, he is very friendly with a known liberal TERRORIST

Growing up my daddy used to tell me "show me your friends and I will tell you who you are"

[Ron]

Oh and while we are on the subject, he is very friendly with a known liberal TERRORIST

Growing up my daddy used to tell me "show me your friends and I will tell you who you are"

Fair enough Ferd.
Look at McCain's & Clinton's friends.

Some choice huh?

[Ferd]

For example...just to illustrate my point. This is the first vote that is listed:

Establish a Senate Office of Public Integrity to handle ethics complaints against senators. January 18. (27-71) C-1

Obama's vote of Yes is in keeping with what they consider to be the votes of Liberal politicians so that is one in the "negative" ledger.

to be fair here is another

Agree to final passage of a bill implementing the 9/11 commission's homeland-security recommendations, including a provision extending collective bargaining rights to federal security screeners. March 13. (60-38) L-3
it was that last part that would have hamstrung the Homeland Security Department. and this idiot voted for it because of liberal idiology and political silliness.

Obama is a whacked out liberal who thinks LBJ and Jimmy "the idiot" Carter were great presidents!

Obama needs to be picking up dog poop in the local park, not running for president!

[Ferd]

Fair enough Ferd.
Look at McCain's & Clinton's friends.

Some choice huh?

All of Clintons friends are dead (ie Vince Foster)

McCains "friends" and by that I mean the folk he has hung with for the last 20 years or so, tend to not be guilty of BOMING THE PENTEGON.

[chosenbyone]

to be fair here is another

Agree to final passage of a bill implementing the 9/11 commission's homeland-security recommendations, including a provision extending collective bargaining rights to federal security screeners. March 13. (60-38) L-3
it was that last part that would have hamstrung the Homeland Security Department. and this idiot voted for it because of liberal idiology and political silliness.

Obama is a whacked out liberal who thinks LBJ and Jimmy "the idiot" Carter were great presidents!

Obama needs to be picking up dog poop in the local park, not running for president!

You're too much, Ferd! :toofunny It's good to have you back! You've been missed.

[tstew]

Ferd I just don't understand what you mean when you say things like "making us lose the war in Iraq". That was bungled without help from Obama or anyone else for that matter. I don't even want to mention Afghanistan.
I just want to have all the facts for myself. What the National Journal considers a liberal position based on the fact the "conservatives" are opposed can be misleading.
It's just that this White House has destroyed my trust in it to a great enough extent that things are not as simple as they used to be.

[DividedThigh]

All of Clintons friends are dead (ie Vince Foster)

McCains "friends" and by that I mean the folk he has hung with for the last 20 years or so, tend to not be guilty of BOMING THE PENTEGON.

yikes, scarwy, lol

[Ferd]

Here is another vote by our guy Obama

Support non-embryonic-stem-cell research. April 11. (70-28; 60 votes required because of a unanimous consent agreement) C-2


He voted no.

you know why? because he wants embrionic stemcell research.

Forget the scientific fact that non-embrionic stemcell research is actually being USED to treat people and the other kind (you know, the kind that kills a HUMAN BEING) has not been proven successfull at all.

LIBERAL ABOVE GOOD SENSE!

But Barak wants change and "Changey-Change-Change" is the all important issue!

[tstew]

All of Clintons friends are dead (ie Vince Foster)

McCains "friends" and by that I mean the folk he has hung with for the last 20 years or so, tend to not be guilty of BOMING THE PENTEGON.

Ferd here is a repost of some of what I said earlier:

My point is that I am much more interested in his views than in his "connections". Some of the connections have been tenuous and incidental at best (like with Ayers), but that has been so hyped that it seems to preempt real conversation on his views. Everytime I hear Hannity rave for 30 minutes about that instead of about Obama, it makes him seem less credible and more partisan or vindictive. I want to know about his views and how he has governed and would govern.

He and Ayers are two people prominent in the Chicago political scene and have served on boards together and been at the same functions... Ayers did despicable things when Obama was in short pants (no offense dt . No one has demonstrated any more significant relationship than that.
I just am saying that when you begin to make mountains out of mole hills, people begin to wonder if there really are as many actual mountains as you may claim. Like I said I am not a supporter of any at this point but I am tired of politics and talking heads as usual.

[DividedThigh]

Oh and while we are on the subject, he is very friendly with a known liberal TERRORIST

Growing up my daddy used to tell me "show me your friends and I will tell you who you are"

yo daddy was right, lol

[CC1]

Here is what I know. he wants to raise my taxes, he wants to increase spending by a trillion dollars, and he wants to loose the war in Iraq. AND he will appoint idiots like Ginsburg to the supreme court.

AND he wants to nationalize health care.

I dont care if he is more conservitive than Attila the Hun. If he wants to do the above, he needs to be elected sewage system cleaner not president.

Ding, ding, ding!!!! We have a winner. Ferd's post says it all.

[tstew]

Here is another vote by our guy Obama

Support non-embryonic-stem-cell research. April 11. (70-28; 60 votes required because of a unanimous consent agreement) C-2


He voted no.

you know why? because he wants embrionic stemcell research.

Forget the scientific fact that non-embrionic stemcell research is actually being USED to treat people and the other kind (you know, the kind that kills a HUMAN BEING) has not been proven successfull at all.

LIBERAL ABOVE GOOD SENSE!

But Barak wants change and "Changey-Change-Change" is the all important issue!

But at least now we are talking real issues in black and white. That is all I want. There are certainly votes that I consider too liberal for me, but then there are votes that I believe can be misleading in it's label as liberal.

[Ferd]

Ferd I just don't understand what you mean when you say things like "making us lose the war in Iraq". That was bungled without help from Obama or anyone else for that matter. I don't even want to mention Afghanistan.
I just want to have all the facts for myself. What the National Journal considers a liberal position based on the fact the "conservatives" are opposed can be misleading.
It's just that this White House has destroyed my trust in it to a great enough extent that things are not as simple as they used to be.

My friend, I have LISTENED to Barak. HE has stated that he will pull us out of Iraq and do so before that place is stable.

kind of like what happened in Vietnam (under a Republican).

bottom line, His view, that we pull out now, will lead to Iraq destablizing. When it falls apart, even if we are not there, WE LOOSE!

Barak Obamas position is to LOOSE the war in Iraq. period. end of story. it is exactly what he WANTS.

[Ron]

All of Clintons friends are dead (ie Vince Foster)

Now that's a scary thought!
Not to mention, one should keep Bill away from the White House at any cost!


McCains "friends" and by that I mean the folk he has hung with for the last 20 years or so, tend to not be guilty of BOMING THE PENTEGON.

A vote for McCain is pretty much a vote for an indirect third term of George Bush.

[tstew]

We supposedly already "won" the war in Iraq years ago. That position, and yours my friend, are made by people who don't understand the nature of the situation in Iraq or civil war in general. The United States cannot win the Iraqi Civil War (even though we started it). That is something we should have learned in Vietnam.

[DividedThigh]

A vote for McCain is pretty much a vote for an indirect third term of George Bush.

dont agree ron, mccain got beat by bush in 2000 for the nomination cause they are different, not the same, sounds like a dem parrot talking, lol

[mizpeh]

My friend, I have LISTENED to Barak. HE has stated that he will pull us out of Iraq and do so before that place is stable.

kind of like what happened in Vietnam (under a Republican).

bottom line, His view, that we pull out now, will lead to Iraq destablizing. When it falls apart, even if we are not there, WE LOOSE!

Barak Obamas position is to LOOSE the war in Iraq. period. end of story. it is exactly what he WANTS.

Ferd, LOSE not loose. :)

[Ron]

My friend, I have LISTENED to Barak. HE has stated that he will pull us out of Iraq and do so before that place is stable.

kind of like what happened in Vietnam (under a Republican).

bottom line, His view, that we pull out now, will lead to Iraq destablizing. When it falls apart, even if we are not there, WE LOOSE!

Barak Obamas position is to LOOSE the war in Iraq. period. end of story. it is exactly what he WANTS.

I believe there will be pressure to bear on him to not do that from powers that be.

However, a majority of Americans want the troops home, are all Americans stupid?
I don't think so, they just don't want another Vietnam where the troops are there for 13 plus years with a great cost in lives while still losing the war.

[Ferd]

But at least now we are talking real issues in black and white. That is all I want. There are certainly votes that I consider too liberal for me, but then there are votes that I believe can be misleading in it's label as liberal.

Bro, there are some votes in that list that dont look so liberal and make no sense to be considered liberal.

But when you look at the depth of what he voted for, as it applies to what he has at his core, you see a guy that wants to raise taxes and spending by trillions of dollars, wants to pull out of Iraq right now, will talk to Iran and other terrorists at a presidential level, and uses JKF as the example.

Not withstanding the FACT that it was JFKs talks with the Russians that led them to think he was weak and thus to put missils in Cuba. Remember that? the Cuban Missil crisis?

it was an extenion of JFK coming off weak in talking to the Russians.

and Barak is using that has the president for his talking to that Iranian terrorist president.

no thanks. I dont want a president who cannot grasp the historic context.

[SOUNWORTHY]

I'll repeat what I said somewhere before. Israel wanted change and they got Saul. Germany wanted change and they got Hitler. I'm sure this will be a change but will it be for the better? I personally don't think so. I've lived through all the presidents since FDR and have voted both sides of the ticket. I was voting before some of you were dry behind the ears and some of you before you even had ears. :)

[Ron]

dont agree ron, mccain got beat by bush in 2000 for the nomination cause they are different, not the same, sounds like a dem parrot talking, lol

They are different-true.

Just not by much, that's all.

[Ferd]

I believe there will be pressure to bear on him to not do that from powers that be.

However, a majority of Americans want the troops home, are all Americans stupid?
I don't think so, they just don't want another Vietnam where the troops are there for 13 plus years with a great cost in lives while still losing the war.

Ahh, elect Mr Changey-Change-Change, because he wont be allowed to do what he wants.... but will be Mr Changey-Change-Change. That makes about as much sense as a football bat.

[AmazingGrace]

Ahh, elect Mr Changey-Change-Change, because he wont be allowed to do what he wants.... but will be Mr Changey-Change-Change. That makes about as much sense as a football bat.

Remember this is from someone who doesnt live the the USA.... I guess to some it doesnt matter if we have a friend of the local terrorist for president as long as it doesnt directly affect them! :crazywalls:crazywalls

[DividedThigh]

how do you know the majority of americans want the troops home ron, you are a canadian, i know hardly anyone the wants that, good night, dt

[tstew]

Ahh, elect Mr Changey-Change-Change, because he wont be allowed to do what he wants.... but will be Mr Changey-Change-Change. That makes about as much sense as a football bat.

I wonder if Obama can work "Mr. Changey-Change-Change" into his campaign. It's kind of catchy. :)

[Ron]

Ahh, elect Mr Changey-Change-Change, because he wont be allowed to do what he wants.... but will be Mr Changey-Change-Change. That makes about as much sense as a football bat.

Ferd that is true, what one says to be elected & what they will do afterwards are two very different things, but aren't they all?

I believe Barak will be elected, but he will be a President that will be saddled with a lot of baggage.

Look for a one term shot.

[tstew]

We supposedly already "won" the war in Iraq years ago. That position, and yours my friend, are made by people who don't understand the nature of the situation in Iraq or civil war in general. The United States cannot win the Iraqi Civil War (even though we started it). That is something we should have learned in Vietnam.

bump...just in case anyone had an opinion.

[Ron]

how do you know the majority of americans want the troops home ron, you are a canadian, i know hardly anyone the wants that, good night, dt

How do I know?
Well true, I haven't talked to every American, but I have seen "Polls" & we as Canadians have troops in Afghanistan & a majority of Canadians want our troops home.

They were going to come home 2009, but that was extended to 2011.

[Ferd]

A vote for McCain is pretty much a vote for an indirect third term of George Bush.

Ron, being a Canadian, I will give you a pass. Its likely you dont grasp the reality of American politics and what you get up there is filtered thru a Canadian centric news system.

the simple fact is, NO PERSON in the Republican party has been more ANTI-Bush than McCain.

McCain has been with the president when he felt the president was right and HARD AGAINST the president when he felt GWB was wrong.

there have been times when I felt McCain was too much against GWB other times I have agreed with McCain.

McCain has been MORE AGAINST stupid spending than Bush and McCain called for the fireing of Rumsfeld and a change in direction in the war in Iraq. on these I have agreed with McCain.

McCain opposed a number of the Bush tax cuts. On these I was against McCain.

McCain has NEVER been a guy that ANYONE could count as a "Supportive back bencher"

To suggest that McCain is effectively a 3rd Bush term, is either based in ignorance or it is willful misdirection.

[Ron]

bump...just in case anyone had an opinion.

It is a mess, & however well intentioned it was to go in there (I am being generous) people now matter what country you are from, don't want America as an occupying power!

[DividedThigh]

How do I know?
Well true, I haven't talked to every American, but I have seen "Polls" & we as Canadians have troops in Afghanistan & a majority of Canadians want our troops home.

They were going to come home 2009, but that was extended to 2011.

not picking on ya buddy, as a matter of fact i just watched a coming home parade for one of our gurard units, great that they are home, but the fight must be fought, the majority of people i know want the job to be done, then we are out, by the way, we are still in germany, japan and korea, what is that now 60 yrs, dt

[Ferd]

We supposedly already "won" the war in Iraq years ago. That position, and yours my friend, are made by people who don't understand the nature of the situation in Iraq or civil war in general. The United States cannot win the Iraqi Civil War (even though we started it). That is something we should have learned in Vietnam.

you dun drunk the democrat coolaid.

No one has EVER Suggested that we have "won"

and Iraq is not a civil war. and the lesson we learned in Vietnam is that when liberals cry we end up loosing.

we lost vietnam because of cowards like ted kennedy and others who WANTED to loose.

NOT because it was a so called civil war.

the situation in Iraq is very much winnable. the majority of Iraqis want us there and want a free society and know they can get it with out help.

but we have too many liberals who smell power and have decided they can get power by loosing.

[Ferd]

I believe there will be pressure to bear on him to not do that from powers that be.

However, a majority of Americans want the troops home, are all Americans stupid?
I don't think so, they just don't want another Vietnam where the troops are there for 13 plus years with a great cost in lives while still losing the war.

egads.

[Ron]

That is not to say those countries that are allowing people to promote terrorism or an outright hatred of America, should be given a free pass either.

[Ferd]

Ferd, LOSE not loose. :)

ok, ok!

[Ferd]

That is not to say those countries that are allowing people to promote terrorism or an outright hatred of America, should be given a free pass either.

yea. according to mr obama we need to sit down and talk to them.

that way we can build trust and openness and come to a better understanding.

puke.

[DividedThigh]

ron my friend for the record, i want victory and then the troops home, but i am also convinced that the iraqi people dont want peace, if they did they would rise up and fight the terrorists among them and it would be done, dt

[Ron]

not picking on ya buddy, as a matter of fact i just watched a coming home parade for one of our gurard units, great that they are home, but the fight must be fought, the majority of people i know want the job to be done, then we are out, by the way, we are still in germany, japan and korea, what is that now 60 yrs, dt

And there is pressure in those countries for the troops to leave as well.
They also are not there as an occupying power.

Don't you think that there should be a push toward Iraq sovereignty?

[Ferd]

Folks, we had issues in Germany until the 1950's. we still have bases both there and in Japan 60 years later.


I want a stable ally in the middle east where we can have bases of operations. just like we do in Europe and the far east.

[Ferd]

And there is pressure in those countries for the troops to leave as well.
They also are not there as an occupying power.

Don't you think that there should be a push toward Iraq sovereignty?

Ron where are you getting your news? Bushisevil.com?

Dude, there is a massive push for Iraqi Sovreignty. Case in point. WE have not stolen their oil....

[tstew]

you dun drunk the democrat coolaid.

No one has EVER Suggested that we have "won"

and Iraq is not a civil war. and the lesson we learned in Vietnam is that when liberals cry we end up loosing.

we lost vietnam because of cowards like ted kennedy and others who WANTED to loose.

NOT because it was a so called civil war.

the situation in Iraq is very much winnable. the majority of Iraqis want us there and want a free society and know they can get it with out help.

but we have too many liberals who smell power and have decided they can get power by loosing.

Ferd, it may be the koolaid but I do interpret "Mission Accomplished" as a win.
As someone who was raised around civil war that involved tribalism and religion, let me tell you that the Shiite and Sunni situation in that country and region will not be solved by what we are doing, and it has been worse because of what we have done.

[DividedThigh]

And there is pressure in those countries for the troops to leave as well.
They also are not there as an occupying power.

Don't you think that there should be a push toward Iraq sovereignty?

of course, dt

[Ron]

yea. according to mr obama we need to sit down and talk to them.

that way we can build trust and openness and come to a better understanding.

puke.

I didn't not say that Ferd.
Just as it is hard for me to grasp an American mindset, it is also hard for most Americans to grasp how the rest of the world views how American intervention
is perceived.

That is all I an trying to put forward.

[DividedThigh]

tstew i love you man, but i dont agree that it is worse there than before, and like i said if the people over there want peace they will have it, we have done that here a couple times, dt

[Ron]

Ron where are you getting your news? Bushisevil.com?

Dude, there is a massive push for Iraqi Sovreignty. Case in point. WE have not stolen their oil....


There is a web site called that?

Pretty perceptive person.:D

[Ferd]

Ferd, it may be the koolaid but I do interpret "Mission Accomplished" as a win.
As someone who was raised around civil war that involved tribalism and religion, let me tell you that the Shiite and Sunni situation in that country and region will not be solved by what we are doing, and it has been worse because of what we have done.

my friend, "MIssion Accomplised" was the correct asessment of what those particular sailors did who were returning after that phase was over.

GWB on the deck of that Carrier STATED that the WAR was NOT over and we had a long road ahead.

this thing that you are repeating is quite a diservice to the men and women who fought so valiantly during those early days in Iraq.

[tstew]

tstew i love you man, but i dont agree that it is worse there than before, and like i said if the people over there want peace they will have it, we have done that here a couple times, dt

Dt. that region is a powder keg. Most American have no concept of tribalism and sectarian feelings. If you think that Iraq is a nation of one people who are going to rise up together and forget about that whole little Sunni Shiite thing because we come bearing democracy, you are just as misled as some of our policy makers.
We have upset the apple cart and we were banking on national patriotism overriding the centuries of sectarian history. A "new" country like America that was founded as a republic and thinks along those lines will never understand this. What works for us and countries like us, work because it matches well with how our society was structured from the beginning.
This whole concept that we will give them the opportunity to "rise up" and become like us is what is naive. We are dealing with issues that are ten times as old as our nation.

[Aquila]

Don't forget folks, if you don't vote for Obama that means you are racist. (we now have the ultimate race card being played)

I don't think anyone is a racist if they don't vote for Obama. I will concede, I think that a lot of people who won't vote for him are going to do so because they are racists. This will make those who vote against Obama based on the issues have to defend themselves from being labeled racists.

[Ron]

Dt. that region is a powder keg. Most American have no concept of tribalism and sectarian feelings. If you think that Iraq is a nation of one people who are going to rise up together and forget about that whole little Sunni Shiite thing because we come bearing democracy, you are just as misled as some of our policy makers.
We have upset the apple cart and we were banking on national patriotism overriding the centuries of sectarian history. A "new" country like America that was founded as a republic and thinks along those lines will never understand this. What works for us and countries like us, work because it matches well with how our society was structured from the beginning.
This whole concept that we will give them the opportunity to "rise up" and become like us is what is naive. We are dealing with issues that are ten times as old as our nation.

Very Perceptive & very true!
Good post!

[tstew]

my friend, "MIssion Accomplised" was the correct asessment of what those particular sailors did who were returning after that phase was over.

GWB on the deck of that Carrier STATED that the WAR was NOT over and we had a long road ahead.

this thing that you are repeating is quite a diservice to the men and women who fought so valiantly during those early days in Iraq.

Ferd as a military brat, I'm going to nip that last statement in the bud. I know from the first hand stories of my father, the frustrations of Vietnam. Most of my frustration is with the disregard for those who have fought valiantly (in freaking unarmored jeeps or walking down the street playing soccer with kids so as not to appear like an occupying force...so that they get a nice little blurb on the evening news). I'm sick of seeing kids born in the '80's having funeral services ...for what?

[DividedThigh]

Dt. that region is a powder keg. Most American have no concept of tribalism and sectarian feelings. If you think that Iraq is a nation of one people who are going to rise up together and forget about that whole little Sunni Shiite thing because we come bearing democracy, you are just as misled as some of our policy makers.
We have upset the apple cart and we were banking on national patriotism overriding the centuries of sectarian history. A "new" country like America that was founded as a republic and thinks along those lines will never understand this. What works for us and countries like us, work because it matches well with how our society was structured from the beginning.
This whole concept that we will give them the opportunity to "rise up" and become like us is what is naive. We are dealing with issues that are ten times as old as our nation.

tstew i dotn want them to be like us my man, and i know about the sectarianism in iraq, i am not talking about the ethnic divides i am talking about the terrorist and foreigners there from iran and other countries that foment the conflict killin all that get in there way for there own political agendas, they are the ones the iraqi people should rise against, dt

[Ferd]

Dt. that region is a powder keg. Most American have no concept of tribalism and sectarian feelings. If you think that Iraq is a nation of one people who are going to rise up together and forget about that whole little Sunni Shiite thing because we come bearing democracy, you are just as misled as some of our policy makers.
We have upset the apple cart and we were banking on national patriotism overriding the centuries of sectarian history. A "new" country like America that was founded as a republic and thinks along those lines will never understand this. What works for us and countries like us, work because it matches well with how our society was structured from the beginning.
This whole concept that we will give them the opportunity to "rise up" and become like us is what is naive. We are dealing with issues that are ten times as old as our nation.


i think we are banking on the ideals of freedom and democracy. NOT nationalism.

I do agree that part of the neo-conserivitive view ie "rise up" thing was off. that doesnt mean we just cut and run. we leave and the whole area destablizes and Iran controls everything.

not a solid option.

[StMark]

We live in sad times. It's so hard to watch America going down the toilet- heartbreaking. And to see so many people,
especially God's people decieved in these last and evil days

[Ferd]

Ferd as a military brat, I'm going to nip that last statement in the bud. I know from the first hand stories of my father, the frustrations of Vietnam. Most of my frustration is with the disregard for those who have fought valiantly (in freaking unarmored jeeps or walking down the street playing soccer with kids so as not to appear like an occupying force...so that they get a nice little blurb on the evening news). I'm sick of seeing kids born in the '80's having funeral services ...for what?

Well, speaking as a Military man who fought in Desert Storm, and as a man who has 2 uncles who fought in Vietnam.... and who majored in history in college, I disagree.

[tstew]

tstew i dotn want them to be like us my man, and i know about the sectarianism in iraq, i am not talking about the ethnic divides i am talking about the terrorist and foreigners there from iran and other countries that foment the conflict killin all that get in there way for there own political agendas, they are the ones the iraqi people should rise against, dt

Yes, but due to the teaching of their society and religion, there will always be those who see us as the "terrorist and foreigners there from iran and other countries that foment the conflict killin all that get in there way for there own political agendas".
And you're still saying what the "Iraqi people" should do. Once again a republic centered view of them. The reality is that you have people who are Sunni or Shiite first and Iraqi a very distant second.

[CC1]

Ferd as a military brat, I'm going to nip that last statement in the bud. I know from the first hand stories of my father, the frustrations of Vietnam. Most of my frustration is with the disregard for those who have fought valiantly (in freaking unarmored jeeps or walking down the street playing soccer with kids so as not to appear like an occupying force...so that they get a nice little blurb on the evening news). I'm sick of seeing kids born in the '80's having funeral services ...for what?

As the parent of a United States Marine who served two tours in Iraq in the most dangerous places at the time (Fallujah and then Ramadi) I agree 100% with Ferd.

Those of you who claim us opposing Obama are just repeating what the "talking heads" say should take your own advice.

As Ferd said GWB made it clear in that speech on that carrier that the war was far from over and that difficult times lay ahead.

The lib media who hates GWB chooses to ignore all of that and focus on the banner congratulating the men and women of that ship on THEIR mission being done.

[tstew]

Well, speaking as a Military man who fought in Desert Storm, and as a man who has 2 uncles who fought in Vietnam.... and who majored in history in college, I disagree.

Disagree with what?

[CC1]

We live in sad times. It's so hard to watch America going done the toilet- heartbreaking. And to see so many people,
especially God's people decieved in these last and evil days

It's ok Mark. We will continue to pray for tstew!!!

[tstew]

As the parent of a United States Marine who served two tours in Iraq in the most dangerous places at the time (Fallujah and then Ramadi) I agree 100% with Ferd.

Those of you who claim us opposing Obama are just repeating what the "talking heads" say should take your own advice.

As Ferd said GWB made it clear in that speech on that carrier that the war was far from over and that difficult times lay ahead.

The lib media who hates GWB chooses to ignore all of that and focus on the banner congratulating the men and women of that ship on THEIR mission being done.

Everyone recognizes the the White House was greviously off in their estimate of the time, money, lives, and resources that it was going to take to "win" this war. My point is that people who understand the world and that part of the world were saying what I'm saying from the beginning.

[StMark]

It's ok Mark. We will continue to pray for tstew!!!



as someone recently put it, we are committing national suicide.

I can see now how people are going to be so easily deceived by the anti christ.

They are already embracing that spirit

[tstew]

It's ok Mark. We will continue to pray for tstew!!!

I actually thought that was another (you) joke. Well I appreciate the prayers CC. I'm doing very well but prayer is always welcome.

[Aquila]

Yep.

This idea that voting for Obama is unChristian ... and the attempt to spiritualize this with end-prophecy ... hail Mary prayers ... and other comments in this thread ... such as "national suicides, dumb", etc. ..

is is what at times makes some Evangelicals and Fundamentalist seem extremist to the general population. Do we believe in the Bill of Rights, or not?

The world is not ending ... America has the backbone and, skeletal, and exoskeletal structure and thick epedermis to endure a presidency of a NON- WASPish leader ... I hope.

Long live the Constitution!!

I don't think it makes us seem extreme. I think it makes us look like mindless pawns of the Republican machine.

[Ron]

as someone recently put it, we are committing national suicide.

I can see now how people are going to be so easily deceived by the anti christ.

They are already embracing that spirit

Not to mention Russia is feeling more nationalistic and is starting to rearm herself.
They also don't want to share the world stage with the States.
Not to mention China.


Even so come quickly Jesus.

[tstew]

as someone recently put it, we are committing national suicide.

I can see now how people are going to be so easily deceived by the anti christ.

They are already embracing that spirit

I'm going to assume that that part of the response was not directed towards me even though it was in response to a post about me. From what I've seen of your posts, you don't seem that type.

[Aquila]

Voting for a canidate who opposes partial birth abortion vs one who approves of it is IMPORTANT. I don't care if the rest of the world thinks we are "extemist".

I see them as "extremist" promoting gay marriage, abortion, etc.

And the polarization continues.

[DividedThigh]

Yes, but due to the teaching of their society and religion, there will always be those who see us as the "terrorist and foreigners there from iran and other countries that foment the conflict killin all that get in there way for there own political agendas".
And you're still saying what the "Iraqi people" should do. Once again a republic centered view of them. The reality is that you have people who are Sunni or Shiite first and Iraqi a very distant second.

and dont forget the kurd bro, i see what you mean, but i dont agree, but then again we all cant all the time, dt

[Ron]

I'm going to assume that that part of the response was not directed towards me even though it was in response to a post about me. From what I've seen of your posts, you don't seem that type.

I don't thnk it was.

[Ferd]

Disagree with what?

pretty much everything youve said in this thread about the war in Iraq.

you offered your credentials. I offered mine.

it seems we have vastly different views here. your proxemity as a military brad, arent a trump card.

But I still repect you tstew.

[tstew]

and dont forget the kurd bro, i see what you mean, but i dont agree, but then again we all cant all the time, dt

Yeah, 'cause then there would be nothing to fight about. :boxing

[Ron]

And the polarization continues.

Not much different in Canada.

[Aquila]

Well, . . . Obama getting elected might push the republicans to get their act together. I highly doubt he can get elected though. There is just to much to overcome and the seniors like McCain.

True. In a sense, if the Republicans get elected they will continue down the path they're currently on. Loosing the Presidency could serve to help the Republicans make the changes they need to be respectable again.

[Ferd]

Everyone recognizes the the White House was greviously off in their estimate of the time, money, lives, and resources that it was going to take to "win" this war. My point is that people who understand the world and that part of the world were saying what I'm saying from the beginning.

hmm..... by everyone I assume you mean the democrat party, the lib media and FRANCE?


Cuz if by everyone you include me, then your estimation is off a bit.

[tstew]

pretty much everything youve said in this thread about the war in Iraq.

you offered your credentials. I offered mine.

it seems we have vastly different views here. your proxemity as a military brad, arent a trump card.

But I still repect you tstew.

Not trying to trump you bro. I respect your sacrifice...I just didn't care for the comment about me not respecting the valiant sacrifice of those serving.

[tstew]

hmm..... by everyone I assume you mean the democrat party, the lib media and FRANCE?


Cuz if by everyone you include me, then your estimation is off a bit.

No, even the White House will tell you that. Remember they did have to offer projections before they got us into this thing...complete with estimated costs and exit strategy...

[Ron]

Yeah, 'cause then there would be nothing to fight about. :boxing

Well, now that Obama earned the Dem nomination, I believe he is fair game to be scrutinized.

Hopefully it will have some facts.:hypercoffee

[A_PoMo]

If we can survive 8 yrs of Clinton followed by 8 yrs of Bush we can survive Obama or McCain. All the drama is melodramatic.

[Aquila]

I think one of the biggest issues is going to be healthcare. McCain is way more conservative than Hillary or Obama on this issue. Once you give people a "free" benefit the actual cost just explode. I would love to see some great minds get together and find a way to help our healthcare cost problems. The thought the government controlling my well being is scary.

I know the health care plans well. The Democrat's plan is the most realistic. McCain's will only lead to millions more of uninsured people...and that will drive up the cost of insurance for the rest of us who might be able to afford it if he becomes President.

Remember, the more uninsured people you have the higher the cost of health care will become.

[StMark]

I'm going to assume that that part of the response was not directed towards me even though it was in response to a post about me. From what I've seen of your posts, you don't seem that type.


not you directly no, in general, yes. I'm not a republican. I'm a democrat, but they (the majority of the Dems) are soooo far to the right, they are equal to marxist communist! They're views are just outrageous! Now, Ferd and i will disagree, but I think SOMETHING has got to be done about America's health care. He thinks it's fine the way it is. Since the Republicans have been in office, it has almost taken out middle class under. gas prcies, housing, taxes are still high, but I don't think the Dems plan is going to work either.
But all the financial woes aside, there is something else at play here... I believe this is all a set up of the one world government

[Ferd]

Not trying to trump you bro. I respect your sacrifice...I just didn't care for the comment about me not respecting the valiant sacrifice of those serving.

Maybe I was sloppy in how I said that. typing fast and mixing belief with a bit of sarcastic comedy....


I firmly believe that the democrats that picked up on that "mission accomplised" did infact disrespect the men and women who served during that phase of the war.

there is an old saying that if you repeat a lie enough, it becomes fact.

I cannot say that you mean disrespect. Ive posted with you enough to know better. I do believe that the line of thought, as it was devised as a political ploy against GWB was disrespectful and its disheartening when I see honest people who do respect our men and women in uniform repeat it.

[tstew]

Well, now that Obama earned the Dem nomination, I believe he is fair game to be scrutinized.

Hopefully it will have some facts.:hypercoffee

I agree, that is why I posted the link to the actual list of his voting record. I will once again say that I am not really a supporter of any of the candidates...I'm just not the GWB supporter that I once was.

[Ferd]

not you directly no, in general, yes. I'm not a republican. I'm a democrat, but they (the majority of the Dems) are soooo far to the right, they are equal to marxist communist! They're views are just outrageous! Now, Ferd and i will disagree, but I think SOMETHING has got to be done about America's health care. He thinks it's fine the way it is. Since the Republicans have been in office, it has almost taken out middle class under. gas prcies, housing, taxes are still high, but I don't think the Dems plan is going to work either.
But all the financial woes aside, there is something else at play here... I believe this is all a set up of the one world government

Not fine as it is, I just dont think tossing the baby out with the bathwater is smart.

nationalizing healthcare is no answer to what ails us.

[Aquila]

that is a joke to say that obama did not interject race into this nomination process, he is the one making speeches and going to selma and claiming to be down for the struggle, yeah of course he is, my goodness, dt

True. Merely being the first black Presidential candidate brings race to the table. It's just life.

[Ferd]

I agree, that is why I posted the link to the actual list of his voting record. I will once again say that I am not really a supporter of any of the candidates...I'm just not the GWB supporter that I once was.

and I think I at least dealt with spcifics about what Obama has SAID and what he stands for and how he as voted.

It IS about the core of his actual beliefs.

Just a note. i was watching some talking heads last night.

when the McCain guy was asked what policy McCain would pursue, he gave specifics.

when the Obama guy was asked, his answer was "the last 8 years have been a failure we must go in a new direction"

what is that? you want to talk about what these guys are talking about? I dont think Obama can take that kind of in depth look.

[DividedThigh]

True. Merely being the first black Presidential candidate brings race to the table. It's just life.

so very true, it is life, inevitalbe life, dt

[Aquila]

i just find it hard to believe that you danny, a person i think is bright could support the most liberal candidate to ever run for pres, and on top of that , a man with no practical experience running anything, dt

I think Bush's "facism" having been labeled "conservatism" has caused a backlash against "conservatism". So more people are willing to accept the more liberal candidate.

As for experience...the people in charge have tremendous amounts of experience and they're warmongering baffoons. Regardless of party, someone with less experience will be more likely to think outside of the box and listen to advisors. When people have tons of experience they often get locked into their personal notions and refuse to accept sound advice that contradicts what they think. This is what has gotten this administration into a lot of it's troubles.

[tstew]

Maybe I was sloppy in how I said that. typing fast and mixing belief with a bit of sarcastic comedy....


I firmly believe that the democrats that picked up on that "mission accomplised" did infact disrespect the men and women who served during that phase of the war.

there is an old saying that if you repeat a lie enough, it becomes fact.

I cannot say that you mean disrespect. Ive posted with you enough to know better. I do believe that the line of thought, as it was devised as a political ploy against GWB was disrespectful and its disheartening when I see honest people who do respect our men and women in uniform repeat it.

Ferd, I was a GWB supporter at one point, but I am appalled at how the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were mismanaged. I am appalled at what seems to be an almost unprecedented bonanza for big business and powerful lobbies. Case in point, the willingness to turn the security our ports over to the highest bidder who just happened to be Saudi. I could go on and on but....:beatdeadhorse

[Ferd]

I didn't not say that Ferd.
Just as it is hard for me to grasp an American mindset, it is also hard for most Americans to grasp how the rest of the world views how American intervention
is perceived.

That is all I an trying to put forward.

No Ron you didnt say that OBAMA did!

and Ron, just a tidbit, after 9/11 I honestly dont care what the rest of the world thinks.

All I care about is no more muslims flying planes into American buildings and no more muslim nations supporting any form of terror.

beyond that the rest of the world can get frances stinky cheese stuck in their noses and drown in their gassy wine.

[Aquila]

I don't think many people can get excited about McCain but the alternative is disasterous for our country, our kids, and our grand kids.

I have never been one of those to whine about voting for the "lesser of evils". I have been enthusiastic about every Republican canidate except Bob Dole and now McCain.

However there is too much at stake with federal judicial appointments and the fact that the dems are going to pick up huge gains in the House and Senate this fall.

Even if McCain is a moderate Democrat vs. a liberal one that is better than the liberal one and someone is going to have to keep the huge new Democrat majority in both houses of Congress in check.

What do you really expect from McCain regarding the Supreme Court?

[Ron]

No Ron you didnt say that OBAMA did!

and Ron, just a tidbit, after 9/11 I honestly dont care what the rest of the world thinks.

All I care about is no more Muslims flying planes into American buildings and no more Muslim nations supporting any form of terror.

beyond that the rest of the world can get Frances stinky cheese stuck in their noses and drown in their gassy wine.

Fair enough Ferd, but don't be surprised if these thoughts and actions don't fuel
more Anti American sentiment and Terrorism.

What are you going to do?

Nuke the Middle East?

Perhaps this will usher in Armageddon.

[Aquila]

A Muslim this close to the White House, and Falwell not available to pronounce it as the judgment of God that it is !!!

:reaction

Obama's a liberal Christian, not a Muslim.

[Ferd]

Ferd, I was a GWB supporter at one point, but I am appalled at how the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were mismanaged. I am appalled at what seems to be an almost unprecedented bonanza for big business and powerful lobbies. Case in point, the willingness to turn the security our ports over to the highest bidder who just happened to be Saudi. I could go on and on but....:beatdeadhorse

and thus the reason I will vote for McCain.

I think Rumsfeld was wrong. I felt that way LONG before he got kicked out.

I was with McCain from day one when he started blasting Rummy.

we should have done what Collin Powell said and go in with a massive army and not a smaller force.

we should have been more precise with Afghanistan in the early days and approaced it as a trap for bin ladin.

I do not agree with GWB on how we did what we did. I DO agree on the need to do it.

BUT that is no longer the question. WE ARE THERE NOW. we have do deal with the reality NOW. and I firmly belive that John McCain is RIGHT on the course we should take.

[Ferd]

Fair enough Ferd, but don't be surprised if these thoughts and actions don't fuel
more Anti American sentiment and Terrorism.

What are you going to do?

Nuke the Middle East?

Perhaps this will usher in Armageddon.

...if necessary.

[tstew]

and thus the reason I will vote for McCain.

I think Rumsfeld was wrong. I felt that way LONG before he got kicked out.

I was with McCain from day one when he started blasting Rummy.

we should have done what Collin Powell said and go in with a massive army and not a smaller force.

we should have been more precise with Afghanistan in the early days and approaced it as a trap for bin ladin.

I do not agree with GWB on how we did what we did. I DO agree on the need to do it.

BUT that is no longer the question. WE ARE THERE NOW. we have do deal with the reality NOW. and I firmly belive that John McCain is RIGHT on the course we should take.

But which course? The one where he said we could be there for the next 100 years or the one where he said we would be out by 2013?

[Ferd]

But which course? The one where he said we could be there for the next 100 years or the one where he said we would be out by 2013?

context my friend. he is right on both counts.

the 100 year comment references the change in post ww2 Germany and Japan where we still have bases and at the same time we have allies in these nations.

the 2013 comment was about the end of hostilities.


context my friend, context. (you cant get context from democrat position papers and talking points...)

[DividedThigh]

I think Bush's "facism" having been labeled "conservatism" has caused a backlash against "conservatism". So more people are willing to accept the more liberal candidate.

As for experience...the people in charge have tremendous amounts of experience and they're warmongering baffoons. Regardless of party, someone with less experience will be more likely to think outside of the box and listen to advisors. When people have tons of experience they often get locked into their personal notions and refuse to accept sound advice that contradicts what they think. This is what has gotten this administration into a lot of it's troubles.

that is your opinion of course, not mine, dt

[Aquila]

Ok question for Dan and DT... or anyone else...

I asked this last night but it got passed over.

Do yall think he will take Hill as VP? And if so do you think the new accusations against Bill will hurt his race? Or do you think he will totally bypass her for that reason?

I think he will refrain from making a VP decision for a while. I think he'd be wise to verbally explain that Hillary is a leading contender. Then he should make a few possibilities known and meet with them and get some publicity. Allow the polls to show how the electorate feels about each possible contender compared to Hillary. And then go from there. Hopefully the polls among Democrats will show that Richardson or someone else resonates with the electorate. Personally...I'd like to see Richardson. The first African-American President and Hispanic Vice President. It would also open the door for a second historic race in 8 years when Richardson runs as the first Hispanic President. That'd be what I'd bank on. Obama is running on "Change". Clinton is a throwback to another decade and administration. I think the American people are tired of Bush's and Clinton's.

[tstew]

context my friend. he is right on both counts.

the 100 year comment references the change in post ww2 Germany and Japan where we still have bases and at the same time we have allies in these nations.

the 2013 comment was about the end of hostilities.


context my friend, context. (you cant get context from democrat position papers and talking points...)

Pretty clever Ferd, but the context of his first statement was to highlight how naive and unenlightened Obama and Clinton were when they were giving any sort of concrete timeline. Then when that stance garnered some good reviews, he had a timeline of his own.

[Ferd]

Pretty clever Ferd, but the context of his first statement was to highlight how naive and unenlightened Obama and Clinton were when they were giving any sort of concrete timeline. Then when that stance garnered some good reviews, he had a timeline of his own.

go back and read the entire quote. the context of the 100 years referenced our current relationship with German and Japan. He named them.

and YES it was about the nieve position of Obama and Clinton.

thank you. sometimes I am clever....

[A_PoMo]

Hey, like most Americans, I don't know diddly about all this policy and morality stuff. I'm going to vote for Obama cuz he's thin and handsome and looks good in a suit and he makes me feel good, like a good preacher. Plus I think McCain looks old and his wife is way too rich and pretty for her age. God bless America! :tic

[DividedThigh]

go back and read the entire quote. the context of the 100 years referenced our current relationship with German and Japan. He named them.

and YES it was about the nieve position of Obama and Clinton.

thank you. sometimes I am clever....

well sometimes, lol

[Aquila]

Here is what I know. he wants to raise my taxes,

If you don't mind me asking, how much do you make? He has some rather nice tax cuts for the middle class in his plan. If you as an individual make over $100,000 a year, you might not see any tax cuts. If you make over $200,000 a year, you'll most likely see a tax increase.

he wants to increase spending by a trillion dollars, and he wants to loose the war in Iraq. AND he will appoint idiots like Ginsburg to the supreme court.

Advisors aren't going to allow him to loose Iraq. In fact, he'll listen to a number of the advisors Bush ignored leading up to the war. Don't forget we're spending some ungodly amount like 10 BILLION in Iraq every month.

AND he wants to nationalize health care.

You're already funding the Iraqi Ministry of Health and the Iraqi national health care system. Not to mention, Obama's not proposing "nationalizing health care"...he wants to subsidize insurance.

I dont care if he is more conservitive than Attila the Hun. If he wants to do the above, he needs to be elected sewage system cleaner not president.

Opinions are like feet. We all have a couple...and they normaly stink.

[tstew]

go back and read the entire quote. the context of the 100 years referenced our current relationship with German and Japan. He named them.

and YES it was about the nieve position of Obama and Clinton.

thank you. sometimes I am clever....

"I have no Plan B. ... I cannot give you a good alternative because if I had a good alternative, maybe we could consider it now. Every alternative that I know of that is keyed to a date for withdrawal, which that would dictate, is chaos in the region. And genocide."

— In an interview with The New York Times, April 14, 2007

I'm just saying that he was very clear about his stance on a timetable...until he came up with one of his own. A timetable is either naive and foolish or it's not.

[AmazingGrace]

Hey, like most Americans, I don't know diddly about all this policy and morality stuff. I'm going to vote for Obama cuz he's thin and handsome and looks good in a suit and he makes me feel good, like a good preacher. Plus I think McCain looks old and his wife is way too rich and pretty for her age. God bless America! :tic

You have been gone too long... But still.... :boxing Do I have to smack you upside the head too! :reaction

[DividedThigh]

If you don't mind me asking, how much do you make? He has some rather nice tax cuts for the middle class in his plan. If you as an individual make over $100,000 a year, you might not see any tax cuts. If you make over $200,000 a year, you'll most likely see a tax increase.



Advisors aren't going to allow him to loose Iraq. In fact, he'll listen to a number of the advisors Bush ignored leading up to the war. Don't forget we're spending some ungodly amount like 10 BILLION in Iraq every month.



You're already funding the Iraqi Ministry of Health and the Iraqi national health care system. Not to mention, Obama's not proposing "nationalizing health care"...he wants to subsidize insurance.



Opinions are like feet. We all have a couple...and they normaly stink.

hmm this obsession with how much money people make rings familiar, lol

[Aquila]

Ding, ding, ding!!!! We have a winner. Ferd's post says it all.

Ferd's post was nothing but an opinion.

[DividedThigh]

You have been gone too long... But still.... :boxing Do I have to smack you upside the head too! :reaction

let the whacken begin, lol:boxing

[DividedThigh]

Ferd's post was nothing but an opinion.

that s your opinion oh curious one, i think he was right on, dt

[Aquila]

not picking on ya buddy, as a matter of fact i just watched a coming home parade for one of our gurard units, great that they are home, but the fight must be fought, the majority of people i know want the job to be done, then we are out, by the way, we are still in germany, japan and korea, what is that now 60 yrs, dt

What do the Iraqi people want?

[Ferd]

If you don't mind me asking, how much do you make? He has some rather nice tax cuts for the middle class in his plan. If you as an individual make over $100,000 a year, you might not see any tax cuts. If you make over $200,000 a year, you'll most likely see a tax increase.



Advisors aren't going to allow him to loose Iraq. In fact, he'll listen to a number of the advisors Bush ignored leading up to the war. Don't forget we're spending some ungodly amount like 10 BILLION in Iraq every month.



You're already funding the Iraqi Ministry of Health and the Iraqi national health care system. Not to mention, Obama's not proposing "nationalizing health care"...he wants to subsidize insurance.



Opinions are like feet. We all have a couple...and they normaly stink.
i do mind you asking.

[Aquila]

And there is pressure in those countries for the troops to leave as well.
They also are not there as an occupying power.

Don't you think that there should be a push toward Iraq sovereignty?

Iraqis need to govern themselves. Sadly, I don't see a Democracy in Iraq. I think we'll see something more akin to a coalition government where a specific religious faction keeps control.

[Aquila]

Folks, we had issues in Germany until the 1950's. we still have bases both there and in Japan 60 years later.


I want a stable ally in the middle east where we can have bases of operations. just like we do in Europe and the far east.

Germany and Japan aren't Islamic cultures.

[Ferd]

"I have no Plan B. ... I cannot give you a good alternative because if I had a good alternative, maybe we could consider it now. Every alternative that I know of that is keyed to a date for withdrawal, which that would dictate, is chaos in the region. And genocide."

— In an interview with The New York Times, April 14, 2007

I'm just saying that he was very clear about his stance on a timetable...until he came up with one of his own. A timetable is either naive and foolish or it's not.

Bro, is 2013 a time table for withdrawal or a firm prediction of how long it will take to achieve stabaliztion?

what Obama wants is a timetable for withdrawal that is stated publically and our enemies can simply lay low unitl we pass that date.

You are taking McCain out of context again.

[A_PoMo]

You have been gone too long... But still.... :boxing Do I have to smack you upside the head too! :reaction

No head smacking allowed...Diz does that to me just fine! Btw: I did say TIC at the end of that thing didn't I? :)

[Ron]

hmm this obsession with how much money people make rings familiar, lol

Only obsession (if one calls it an obsession, more of a comment) is that when the Rich get Richer & the poor get poorer, and what's left of the Middle class is meant to bear the main cost, that is the stuff that fuels revolutions!

[DividedThigh]

i do mind you asking.

some things are just nunyo, nunyobidness, lol

[AmazingGrace]

No head smacking allowed...Diz does that to me just fine! Btw: I did say TIC at the end of that thing didn't I? :)

Yea but I purposfully ignored it LOL Dizzy!!!! GIT over here!!!:happydance:happydance

[Ron]

Iraqis need to govern themselves. Sadly, I don't see a Democracy in Iraq. I think we'll see something more akin to a coalition government where a specific religious faction keeps control.

It will be unstable for sure, but sadly that is but the norm for that part of the world.

[AmazingGrace]

some things are just nunyo, nunyobidness, lol

Amen! :boxing

[Ferd]

Ferd's post was nothing but an opinion.

Chris Hall has more names than the king of Spain

Juan Carlos Alfonso Víctor María de Borbón y Borbón-Dos Sicilias

[Ferd]

some things are just nunyo, nunyobidness, lol

Actually I mind him asking me anything. Including the price of tea in china.

[Aquila]

If we can survive 8 yrs of Clinton followed by 8 yrs of Bush we can survive Obama or McCain. All the drama is melodramatic.

Thank YOU!

I think if we survive we should stone the false prophets. :lol

[Aquila]

not you directly no, in general, yes. I'm not a republican. I'm a democrat, but they (the majority of the Dems) are soooo far to the right, they are equal to marxist communist! They're views are just outrageous! Now, Ferd and i will disagree, but I think SOMETHING has got to be done about America's health care. He thinks it's fine the way it is. Since the Republicans have been in office, it has almost taken out middle class under. gas prcies, housing, taxes are still high, but I don't think the Dems plan is going to work either.
But all the financial woes aside, there is something else at play here... I believe this is all a set up of the one world government

It's important to note that the Democrats have formed international forums...the Republicans have formed global markets. The global markets will do more to march us toward global government than international forums.

[Aquila]

Not fine as it is, I just dont think tossing the baby out with the bathwater is smart.

nationalizing healthcare is no answer to what ails us.

Can you explain how Obama would "nationalize health care"?

[Ron]

How would one nationalize health care?
Even that isn't what is done in Canada.

[Ferd]

Can you explain how Obama would "nationalize health care"?

can you explain "multiple personality disorder"?

[Aquila]

Hey, like most Americans, I don't know diddly about all this policy and morality stuff. I'm going to vote for Obama cuz he's thin and handsome and looks good in a suit and he makes me feel good, like a good preacher. Plus I think McCain looks old and his wife is way too rich and pretty for her age. God bless America! :tic

Translation = "I think Americans are stupid."

Well we elected Bush...once. :lol

[Ron]

can you explain "multiple personality disorder"?

That was mean, but funny.:toofunny

[Ferd]

How would one nationalize health care?
Even that isn't what is done in Canada.

I am reminded of a famous Shakeperian quote.

"A rose by any other name smells so sweet..."

in Homage to TheMrs. William himself penned that line, and I didnt quote 30% of the article

[Aquila]

i do mind you asking.

I wanted to know to make sure you knew what you were talking about. ;)

[A_PoMo]

Yea but I purposfully ignored it LOL Dizzy!!!! GIT over here!!!:happydance:happydance

Uhoh, I'm in trouble now. Kimbo...I mean Diz gonna get me! :boxing

[Ron]

I am reminded of a famous Shakeperian quote.

"A rose by any other name smells so sweet..."

in Homage to TheMrs. William himself penned that line, and I didnt quote 30% of the article

Can you explain how one would nationalize health care?

[AmazingGrace]

can you explain "multiple personality disorder"?

:toofunny:toofunny:toofunny

[Aquila]

can you explain "multiple personality disorder"?

Roses are red
And violets are blue
I’m schizophrenic
And so am I

:lol

[Ferd]

Can you explain how one would nationalize health care?

Ron, who controls healthcare in Canada?

[AmazingGrace]

Roses are red
Violets are blue
I’m schizophrenic
And so am I

:lol

we know:happydance

[Ron]

Ron, who controls healthcare in Canada?

That doesn't explain how one nationalizes Health care.

How do you do it?

We have private clinics & a lot of the Hospitals are owned by private entities such as The Sisters of Providence.

There are Doctors in Private Practice & Surgeons & Specialist in private practice.

There is even a new hostpital being built by the private sector to be run by the private sector in Abbotsford about 45 miles from me.

Nationalization?

[Aquila]

I’ve read the entire thread and I realized something that’s so glaringly obvious I’m surprised it hasn’t been mentioned. We’ve mentioned how we need to pray for our country, and that’s very true. But…what about praying for these candidates? Sure, both of them may have different positions and each of us might prefer one over the other. But these are the guys, like it or not. We need to pray that God guide them and give them the wisdom to lead our country. Right now they’re formulating policies and choosing advisors and cabinet members. They both need to choose wisely. These men need our prayers.

[Ferd]

That doesn't explain how one nationalizes Health care.

How do you do it?

We have private clinics & a lot of the Hospitals are owned by private entities such as The Sisters of Providence.

There are Doctors in Private Practice & Surgeons & Specialist in private practice.

There is even a new hostpital being built by the private sector to be run by the private sector in Abbotsford about 45 miles from me.

Nationalization?
at the end of the day, who controls costs, payment, structure?

who pays the "privately owned business" for its service?

[Ferd]

I’ve read the entire thread and I realized something that’s so glaringly obvious I’m surprised it hasn’t been mentioned. We’ve mentioned how we need to pray for our country, and that’s very true. But…what about praying for these candidates? Sure, both of them may have different positions and each of us might prefer one over the other. But these are the guys, like it or not. We need to pray that God guide them and give them the wisdom to lead our country. Right now they’re formulating policies and choosing advisors and cabinet members. They both need to choose wisely. These men need our prayers.

Ive been praying that McCain lives long enough to get elected so his conservitive VP can take over....


and that Obama becomes a dog pooperscooper.

[Ron]

at the end of the day, who controls costs, payment, structure?

who pays the "privately owned business" for its service?

I and every Canadian who pays a monthly premium does.
How it works is the Government negotiates payment schedules both with Doctors, Surgeons, and Health Boards (they are the ones in charge of the Hospitals) and they also get funding from private insurers like Blue Cross, Pacific Cross, Manulife, etc.

There isn't a shortage of funding or infrastructure, there is however a shortage of manpower, but that is happening worldwide.

[Ferd]

I and every Canadian who pays a monthly premium does.
How it works is the Government negotiates payment schedules both with Doctors, Surgeons, and Health Boards (they are the ones in charge of the Hospitals) and they also get funding from private insurers like Blue Cross, Pacific Cross, Manulife, etc.

There isn't a shortage of funding or infrastructure, there is however a shortage of manpower, but that is happening worldwide.

I rest my case.

How long did you have to wait to go to physical therapy?

[Ron]

I rest my case.

How long did you have to wait to go to physical therapy?

For my back, or foot?

[Ferd]

For my back, or foot?

how about both?

[SOUNWORTHY]

Ferd, it may be the koolaid but I do interpret "Mission Accomplished" as a win.
.

It's possible to accomplish a mission but not win the war. A war is made up of many missions. I'm a Bush man and he is the best we've had since his dad. That doesn't mean I agree with everything he does. I don't even agree with my wife all the time but I don't tell her that. I'm no fool!! :bliss

[Rico]

i do mind you asking.

That's because you are making millions off your oil stocks right now! :toofunny

[Aquila]

Let's not turn this into a health care debate. If you gents really want to talk about Health Care and compare it to Canada's...let's go to the thread for that discussion and allow Canadians to share their experiences...

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=5559&page=4

[Aquila]

I rest my case.

How long did you have to wait to go to physical therapy?

I know a man who needs surgery on his wrist. He's been waiting for over 6 months with some real pain that he tries to treat with over the counter pain meds. And he lives right here in the ol' U.S. of A. Wanna guess why he's waitin'???

[Ron]

how about both?

No wait at all so long as there was confirmation on who was paying.
Foot was Workers Compensation, Back was ICBC.

[CC1]

Everyone recognizes the the White House was greviously off in their estimate of the time, money, lives, and resources that it was going to take to "win" this war. My point is that people who understand the world and that part of the world were saying what I'm saying from the beginning.

Without a doubt we had enough troops to conquor but not enough to pacify. There were mistakes made no doubt.

But that is a far cry from the revisionist history Democrats are trying to bamboozle the American people with.

Every Western Intelligence bureau had come to the same conclusions our Government did. Not to mention that the Dems looking at the same intelligence estimates the President did supported going to war.

It was only when it became a difficult struggle and no WMD were found that all of a sudden the Dems started fingers at the Prez and acting like he knew the intelligence was wrong all along. Bull Hockey.

Do you really think he would have risked his Presidency on going to war on a lie that would immediately be found out? That is so illogical it is laughable but right donw the liberal Dems alley.

Liberals, Dems, believe that no matter how outragous something is you say that if you say it enough times people will begin to believe it. Sadly sometimes that is true.