Legislating Morality?

[Praxeas]

You've probably heard this before in regards to having certain laws...you can't legislate morality. But can you? You can't force people to be truly moral in their heart through legislation, that is true.

However why can't we legislate a moral code for society? We already do it with theft, murder, rape and other moral issues. Why CAN'T we legislate morality for our society? Why can't we have laws based on morality to protect both individual citizens and society in general?

I read a lot from Christians saying we should be less political. But I was thinking about all these polls they have asking people questions about gay rights etc etc...they never asked me. Why SHOULDN'T Christians say gay marriage is wrong by voting? Why shouldn't we let our voices be heard? It's not a matter of forcing them to be moral. It's a matter of speaking up and saying "this is wrong". We said murder is wrong. We said theft is wrong. We said Child porn is wrong. Voting on those issues does NOT equal NOT preaching them as well, which is usually the fallacious argument in return. Just because Christians vote against some thing like gay marriages does not mean they are not at the same time preaching in their churches against sin and going out and witnessing to individuals.

People are often driven by peer pressure and our society is beginning to think "gay is ok" because they hear it a lot. The gay agenda is LOUD but gays make up a very very small percentage of the population, yet we are allowing their will to be forced upon our society which is also trickling down to our kids in schools and through the media. Our world is big. There are no more central market places to meet and preach. People don't all open their doors when you knock. This is one reason TV makes sense. But on the other hand why not send a message to all Americans that their are still a substantial number of people that have not bowed to Molech. Why NOT vote against the Gay agenda? Why NOT vote against baby killing? If it is morally wrong and you have the ability to affect those laws, are we being good citizens of the Kingdom by voting FOR such things by default by voting for candidates or political groups that favor such things?

Or are we being good citizens by being silent ON those issues and allowing our society to believe it's ok? Recently when the California law was repealed that banned gay marriages a Gay Lesbian spokesperson quipped that Californians showed their approval...it was ironic because in fact we showed our disapproval. It was a liberal court that changed the law. But THIS is what the small gay agenda wants YOU to believe...that YOU are a small small marginalized minority and you might as well NOT speak up because there are not enough of you to matter.

We have been in a battle for the hearts and MINDS of American Citizens...and we are allowing small but very vocal groups to win and promote their agenda on our society through their political actions and through our media and through peer pressure...the sad thing is peer pressure is usually the larger group pressuring the smaller, but this is happening in reverse because largely Christians do nothing.

[Baron1710]

You've probably heard this before in regards to having certain laws...you can't legislate morality. But can you? You can't force people to be truly moral in their heart through legislation, that is true.

However why can't we legislate a moral code for society? We already do it with theft, murder, rape and other moral issues. Why CAN'T we legislate morality for our society? Why can't we have laws based on morality to protect both individual citizens and society in general?

I read a lot from Christians saying we should be less political. But I was thinking about all these polls they have asking people questions about gay rights etc etc...they never asked me. Why SHOULDN'T Christians say gay marriage is wrong by voting? Why shouldn't we let our voices be heard? It's not a matter of forcing them to be moral. It's a matter of speaking up and saying "this is wrong". We said murder is wrong. We said theft is wrong. We said Child porn is wrong. Voting on those issues does NOT equal NOT preaching them as well, which is usually the fallacious argument in return. Just because Christians vote against some thing like gay marriages does not mean they are not at the same time preaching in their churches against sin and going out and witnessing to individuals.

People are often driven by peer pressure and our society is beginning to think "gay is ok" because they hear it a lot. The gay agenda is LOUD but gays make up a very very small percentage of the population, yet we are allowing their will to be forced upon our society which is also trickling down to our kids in schools and through the media. Our world is big. There are no more central market places to meet and preach. People don't all open their doors when you knock. This is one reason TV makes sense. But on the other hand why not send a message to all Americans that their are still a substantial number of people that have not bowed to Molech. Why NOT vote against the Gay agenda? Why NOT vote against baby killing? If it is morally wrong and you have the ability to affect those laws, are we being good citizens of the Kingdom by voting FOR such things by default by voting for candidates or political groups that favor such things?

Or are we being good citizens by being silent ON those issues and allowing our society to believe it's ok? Recently when the California law was repealed that banned gay marriages a Gay Lesbian spokesperson quipped that Californians showed their approval...it was ironic because in fact we showed our disapproval. It was a liberal court that changed the law. But THIS is what the small gay agenda wants YOU to believe...that YOU are a small small marginalized minority and you might as well NOT speak up because there are not enough of you to matter.

We have been in a battle for the hearts and MINDS of American Citizens...and we are allowing small but very vocal groups to win and promote their agenda on our society through their political actions and through our media and through peer pressure...the sad thing is peer pressure is usually the larger group pressuring the smaller, but this is happening in reverse because largely Christians do nothing.

I had a unique experience by going to a Christian law school. One of the classes we had was on the foundations of law. And we discussed this extensively, and what most of us came up with was this. You shouldn't legislate anything that is unenforceable. Laws against homosexuality probably are going to be ineffective, but laws against gay marriage are enforceable. Laws against adultery are generally hard to enforce and do we really want adultery police. In a nut shell what I took from the morality part of the class is don't legislate the unenforceable.

[Cindy]

I had a unique experience by going to a Christian law school. One of the classes we had was on the foundations of law. And we discussed this extensively, and what most of us came up with was this. You shouldn't legislate anything that is unenforceable. Laws against homosexuality probably are going to be ineffective, but laws against gay marriage are enforceable. Laws against adultery are generally hard to enforce and do we really want adultery police. In a nut shell what I took from the morality part of the class is don't legislate the unenforceable.

Sodomy laws are pretty much unenforcable right?

[Praxeas]

I had a unique experience by going to a Christian law school. One of the classes we had was on the foundations of law. And we discussed this extensively, and what most of us came up with was this. You shouldn't legislate anything that is unenforceable. Laws against homosexuality probably are going to be ineffective, but laws against gay marriage are enforceable. Laws against adultery are generally hard to enforce and do we really want adultery police. In a nut shell what I took from the morality part of the class is don't legislate the unenforceable.
I agree. It's very hard to enforce such laws.

BTW a ban against gay marriages does not necessarily mean it is illegal to be gay and married. A gay person can go to a gay preacher and do a wedding ceremony and they are not going to be hauled off to jail. It means the state does not officially recognize it as a marriage

[RandyWayne]

Sodomy laws are pretty much unenforcable right?

If they ARE enforceable, then we are all in a lot more trouble then we realize. Not because of the "crime" per say but because their is actually someone trying to enforce it.... and seeing what else?

[Aquila]

We just need to be Christians.

If gays "marry" we teach fellow Christians and make plain statements that God doesn't recognize these sinful unions. Then we seek to pray for the healing and deliverance of homosexuals.

Regarding abortion we teach that God views abortion as murder and make plain statements that abortion is an abomination never to be named among us. Then we seek to help women in crisis pregnancies and reconcile murderous women who have aborted to God through Christ Jesus.

If anyone tries to silence our teaching, we resist them and teach the truth anyway. If hardship becomes of it we rejoice in that we are counted worthy to suffer for the gospel of Jesus Christ.

[OneAccord]

The problem with "legislating morality" is, who's morality are we legislating? The do have laws aginst rape, murder, incest and tens of thousands of other moral issues. But... has that stopped rapes from occuring? Did laws against murder stop two men from killing my first wife? The threat of capital punishment didn't stop them They can pass legislation on morality but they can't legislate whats in a persons heart. People are gonna do whats in their heart. A law doen't stop a rapist any more than a speed limit will slow a speeder down. The only way for morality to be legislated is for us, our own selves, to do the legislating. And we can only do that by submitting ourselves fully and completely to the Lord.

Jer 17:9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Psa 119:11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.

[Aquila]

All laws can do is protect life, liberty, and property.

[Praxeas]

A law doen't stop a rapist any more than a speed limit will slow a speeder down. The only way for morality to be legislated is for us, our own selves, to do the legislating. And we can only do that by submitting ourselves fully and completely to the Lord.

Jer 17:9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Psa 119:11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.
Should we make it then legal to rape?
I think you missed the point of the thread

[OneAccord]

Should we make it then legal to rape?
I think you missed the point of the thread

No, and no. No, of course, rape should not be legalized. And, no I didn't miss the point. We should speak up, we should vote... and laws should be enacted to affect the moral climate of this country and others. However, all the laws in the land won't change whats in a persons hearts. Gay marriages. Yes, they should be illegal.... and we should do all we can to ensure that it stays that way. But gays are still gonna do what gays do. Abortion? Yes, while Roe v Wade is being whittled down to nothingness, we should speak our piece in the ballot box. But, sadly, it won't stop the killing of the innocent.

Thats the problem with living in a free society. People don't know what it means to be free. Freedom isn't the ability to do what I wanna do when and how I wanna do it. Its about doing the right thing. Freedom is life...liberty and the pursuit of happiness for all...not just for a select few.

[Aquila]

Laws can only protect life, liberty and property.

Rape is a threat to the life and liberty of a woman, therefore law is within it's bounds to act on the victim's behalf.

Abortion is more difficult. The life and liberty of an individual woman regarding her own person precludes the idea that the government can seize her body and force her to give birth against her will. Therefore the right to an abortion is recognized. However, with such a right comes immense moral responsibility. Sadly many women abuse this right. They will answer to God and be given the severest of punishments under the fearsome wrath of God. We, the Church, have to warn of this grave evil and reach out to women in need of help and women who need their bloody hands cleansed by the blood of Jesus.

As for gay marriage; the government's commitment to protect life, liberty, and property requires that in order to ban gay marriage it be successfully proven that gay marriage endangers the life, liberty, and/or property of others. If it cannot be proven that gay marriage endangers the life, liberty, and/or property of other free citizens the government will take the course that the right to individual liberty precludes banning gay marriage. Sadly this will allow gays to marry. However, God's truth never changes. The Church must continue to preach against such sinful unions and lifestyles, praying for the healing and deliverance of those bound by homosexual infirmity.

[Praxeas]

No, and no. No, of course, rape should not be legalized. And, no I didn't miss the point. We should speak up, we should vote... and laws should be enacted to affect the moral climate of this country and others. However, all the laws in the land won't change whats in a persons hearts. Gay marriages. Yes, they should be illegal.... and we should do all we can to ensure that it stays that way. But gays are still gonna do what gays do. Abortion? Yes, while Roe v Wade is being whittled down to nothingness, we should speak our piece in the ballot box. But, sadly, it won't stop the killing of the innocent.

Thats the problem with living in a free society. People don't know what it means to be free. Freedom isn't the ability to do what I wanna do when and how I wanna do it. Its about doing the right thing. Freedom is life...liberty and the pursuit of happiness for all...not just for a select few.
I actually said that in my first post. Making moral laws don't make everyone moral. That is not why we have these laws in the first place.

There is still gonna be rape and murder but it would be insane NOT to have laws against these. We are a Republic. Having Laws are very important to our existance as a nation. This is why so many courts had (past tense) and as well our Legislature, images of the 10 commandments.

[Aquila]

I met a man on a flight out of San Antonio. I was reading Verbal Bean's book on prayer and he just asked me what I was reading. I told him about the book and the author and he said, "So, you're a Christian?" And I said yes. We talked about the Lord for a while and were making some headway. But then he said, "One thing I don't understand about Christians today. You're all Republican. I'm not a Republican and never will be." From that it was hard to get past discussing the political issues to focus on the gospel. The world doesn't see us as bearers of a spiritual message anymore. They see us as right wing political activists.

When we engage in this political war we redifine the conversation with this world. It becomes about money and power...not the gospel. Christianity becomes more about activism and less and less about evangelism. I've been out with brethren after church and the entire discussion be centered on politics and those "Dirty-rat Democrats". It's gotten to the point where I'd rather go home and pray and spend some time reading the Word than fellowship the brethren.

The more we turn our attention to the less focused on the gospel we become. My philosophy is that these are just two earthly parties. Neither party is more moral or less moral than the other and Christians should participate on every level in each party.

[DividedThigh]

fact is that all christians arent republicans, many , even apostolics are dems, dt