View Full Version : Bishop G E Patterson - fussing thread (see other thread for nice things)
The Greatest Leader since their founder, Bishop Mason, Bishop GE Patterson Passed away today.
I really enjoyed his music, visiting his church and even his preaching
rgcraig
03-20-2007, 05:14 PM
COGIC Bishop G.E. Patterson dies
By James Dowd
The Commercial Appeal
March 20, 2007
Bishop G.E. Patterson, leader of the international Church of God in Christ, died today after a long illness, church leaders confirm.
Patterson, chief apostle of the Memphis-based COGIC, was 67. Under his leadership, COGIC grew to more than 6 million members in 54 countries.
Arrangements are incomplete, said Bishop Jerry Maynard, chief operating officer for COGIC. "I've lost not only a friend, but my best friend," Maynard said Tuesday afternoon. "It's like losing a part of oneself."
Copyright 2007, commercialappeal.com - Memphis, TN. All Rights Reserved.
The Greatest Leader since their founder, Bishop Mason, Bishop GE Patterson Passed away today.
I really enjoyed his music, visiting his church and even his preaching
COGIC Bishop G.E. Patterson dies
By James Dowd
The Commercial Appeal
March 20, 2007
Bishop G.E. Patterson, leader of the international Church of God in Christ, died today after a long illness, church leaders confirm.
Patterson, chief apostle of the Memphis-based COGIC, was 67. Under his leadership, COGIC grew to more than 6 million members in 54 countries.
Arrangements are incomplete, said Bishop Jerry Maynard, chief operating officer for COGIC. "I've lost not only a friend, but my best friend," Maynard said Tuesday afternoon. "It's like losing a part of oneself."
Copyright 2007, commercialappeal.com - Memphis, TN. All Rights Reserved.
I was about to log out when I saw this...so sorry to read this news...:(
I also am sorry to hear this news. Several decades ago back when there were those high power Mexican radio stations beaming religous programs in the South I used to listen to his radio broadcast and enjoyed it a lot.
rgcraig
03-20-2007, 05:24 PM
I just watched a small tribute on the news - it is sad.
He really had a great presence here in Memphis and throughout the world.
I'll post other articles as they come out.
chosenbyone
03-20-2007, 07:17 PM
He was a great preacher.
SoCaliUPC
03-20-2007, 07:19 PM
There was none other then Bishop Patterson. Some Sunday mornings, I would tune him in to hear him preach. He was an exciting minister to listen to...often times singing the last few parts of his sermon.
He will be very missed.
rgcraig
03-20-2007, 07:32 PM
COGIC Biship G.E. Patterson dead at 67
March 20, 2007 06:06 PM CDT
Action News 5 has learned that Church of God in Christ Bishop G.E. Patterson passed away today.
The following is a statement from the Carter Malone Group, which acted as spokesperson for Patterson and COGIC:
This afternoon at 4:03 p.m. at Methodist University Hospital in Memphis, Tennessee, the Presiding Bishop of the Church of God In Christ, Bishop G.E. Patterson, passed away as a result of heart failure. Patterson was surrounded by his wife, Mrs. Louise Patterson, and his family.
Patterson served as the leader of the fourth-largest Protestant religious denomination in the world with an estimated membership of 6.5 million members. He led the denomination since November 2000.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Two years ago, Patterson disclosed he had prostate cancer. In January, he was hospitalized with undisclosed illness.
Below is Patterson's bio (bbless.org):
Bishop Gilbert Earl Patterson was born in 1939 to Bishop W. A. and Mrs. Mary Patterson, Sr. in Humboldt, Tennessee. He was reared in Memphis, Tennessee and Detroit, Michigan. Bishop J. S. Bailey ordained him in 1958 as an elder in the Church of God in Christ. In 1962, Bishop Patterson became co-pastor with his father at Holy Temple Church of God in Christ in Memphis, Tennessee. Bishop Patterson continued his pastorate in 1975 as the founder and pastor of Temple of Deliverance, the Cathedral of the Bountiful Blessings in Memphis, Tennessee. Today, Temple of Deliverance Church of God in Christ is one of the nation's fastest growing congregations with over 12,000 on its membership roll. The church is located at 369 G. E. Patterson Avenue.
Temple of Deliverance also serves as the home church base for the rapidly growing Bountiful Blessings Ministries (BBM) which is viewed internationally on BET and TBN cable networks weekly, as well as on local TV stations throughout the nation. BBM has a mailing list of over 100,000 active donors from outside the Memphis viewing audience. Bishop Patterson is founder and president of BBM.
Bishop Patterson is a learned minister. He has studied at the Detroit Bible Institute, and LeMoyne Owen College in Memphis, Tennessee. He holds an honorary Doctorate from Oral Roberts University and is the president of the Charles H. Mason Bible College of Tennessee Fourth Jurisdiction in Memphis, Tennessee. Bishop Patterson is the publisher of Bountiful Blessings Magazine and a contributing writer in the Spirit Filled life Bible (King James Version) published by Thomas Nelson Publishers and edited by Dr. Jack W. Hayford. In July 2002, Whitaker House Publishers released Bishop Patterson's first book entitled "Here Comes The Judge".
Bishop Patterson is a 20th century Apostle of Jesus Christ. He is a renowned national speaker, known for his simplistic messages that transcend all barriers of race, gender, age and walks of life for people around the globe. One of his themes, "Be healed, be delivered, and be set free" has become a popular expression. The nation demand for audio and video tapes is overwhelming. Bishop Patterson is the president and general manager of the Memphis based Radio Station WBBP (1480 AM), a full time gospel station with over 100,000 daily listeners.
Bishop Patterson humbly serves God and his community through the ministries he has established at Temple of Deliverance Church (TOD). These ministries have a positive and direct impact on: unemployment-TOD employs over 100 people and has over 100 local and national vendors; wellness-TOD is a member of the Church Health Center; education-TOD issues scores of $1,000 scholarships annually to students entering or returning to colleges or universities; family life-a prayer ministry with more than 40 telephone lines and a prison ministry that serves in the Criminal Justice Center and the Penal Farm in Memphis, Tennessee. There are numerous other ministries at TOD that address the needs of the community.
Bishop Patterson is a leader of church leaders. He is the Presiding Bishop of Church of God in Christ, Incorporated. Bishop Patterson has helped finance many local churches and helped organize seven other churches across the nation.
Bishop Patterson has been married to his lovely wife, Louise D. Patterson for 35 years. We are proud to present to you this highly respected and committed man of God.
South of I 90
03-20-2007, 08:36 PM
This is hard to believe, but very true. One of GE Pattersons biggest admirers was Don Imus. He is on MSNBC every morning from 5am to 8am cst.
rgcraig
03-20-2007, 08:40 PM
This is hard to believe, but very true. One of GE Pattersons biggest admirers was Don Imus. He is on MSNBC every morning from 5am to 8am cst.
I didn't know that. Do you know how he became acquainted with the Bishop?
Steve Epley
03-20-2007, 08:42 PM
Sad he died lost.
ChTatum
03-20-2007, 08:52 PM
Sad he died lost.
No measurable depth to your compassion, huh?
Sad he died lost.
EPELY!
That was low...I get so tired of you! Your post can be rude, judgemental and sometimes downright stupid!
What kind of man of God says those things??????
UGH! whatever....Im outta here.
PS....SO glad you are not God and dont know the heart of a man!
You are suposed to love people........Get a grip, get a life and while your at it get some altar time!
NYLP,
You should edit your post to avoid being banned. You can word your sentiments very strongly without that language.
Besides I am sure that somewhere there will be a UPC evangelist telling how he baptized Elder Patterson in Jesus name in a hotel swimming pool or something similar!
rrford
03-20-2007, 10:49 PM
=
And you wonder why you end up as a lightning rod? This post does nothing more than what you accuse him of.
And you wonder why you end up as a lightning rod? This post does nothing more than what you accuse him of.
Love ya Bro Ford....But dont care.....His statement was just STUPID! Period!
Love ya Bro Ford....But dont care.....His statement was just STUPID! Period!
Didn't your mama teach you that two wrongs don't make one right?
rrford
03-20-2007, 11:01 PM
Love ya Bro Ford....But dont care.....His statement was just STUPID! Period!
But if what you say is said in the same manner or worse, then your post comes across as stupid also.
ILuvFPC
03-20-2007, 11:28 PM
sounds like your the one who needs some altar time!
ThePastorsCoach
03-20-2007, 11:45 PM
BISHOP W. WAYNE PUGH AND CHURCH ALIVE OF ATLANTA, INC
celebrates the life and mourns the passing
of one of God’s most anointed spiritual leaders of this century
BISHOP GILBERT EARL PATTERSON
September 22nd, 1939 – March 20th, 2007
A Leader to be remembered throughout the ages to come!
Please keep First Lady Louise D. Patterson, The Patterson Family
The Temple of Deliverance Family & the COGIC, Inc. in your prayers!
Bishop Gilbert Earl Patterson
Presiding Bishop – Church Of God In Christ, Incorporated
Pastor – Temple Of Deliverance Church Of God In Christ
Founder – Bountiful Blessings Ministries
Temple Of Deliverance Church Of God In Christ
369 G. E. Patterson Avenue
Memphis, Tennessee 38216
901-521-9160
This information was verified by his church office.
We do purpose to forward funeral arrangements, once they have been made available.
Bishop Patterson impacted my life as a young 16 year old boy in Memphis, TN. He was always so very kind to me and every time I would visit Temple of Deliverance - Bishop would say - "Is that my son? Bishop Pugh - come sit at my right hand."
He was a present day Apostle of Jesus Christ. He was a kind and humble servant of our Lord. He was a father and mentor to many of us and I will miss him greatly. May god bless Mother Louise Patterson and the Grand Old Church of God in Christ and the Saints of Temple of Deliverance.
Bishop William Wayne Pugh - www.ChurchAliveAtlanta.com
lisafitzh2o
03-21-2007, 04:09 AM
This is hard to believe, but very true. One of GE Pattersons biggest admirers was Don Imus. He is on MSNBC every morning from 5am to 8am cst.
Were you listening to Imus yesterday (Tuesday)? How freaky! He was just asking Congressman Harold Ford, Jr. how Bishop Patterson was doing. They talked about him for a while and how he has been fighting prostate cancer but that he was doing better now.
WHOA!:eek:
Steve Epley
03-21-2007, 04:40 AM
My comment was not intended to be ugly if it came across that way I apologize I was just stating a fact the man had not obeyed the message that saves neither did he preach the message that saves. And I am sorry for anyone who dies lost. No nastiness meant if it came across that way I am sorry. But it is a fact all who die that have not obeyed Acts 2:38 is lost. Death fixes nothing that is not fixed in life. Life is for fixing not death. Death only settles the matter.
South of I 90
03-21-2007, 07:42 AM
I didn't know that. Do you know how he became acquainted with the Bishop?
I'm not sure, but Imus has played parts GE Patterson sermons as "bumpers" for a long time.
This morning they were giving Imus a hard time because Imus missed a returned call from GE Pattersons wife yesterday.
rgcraig
03-21-2007, 07:43 AM
I'm not sure, but Imus has played parts GE Patterson sermons as "bumpers" for a long time.
This morning they were giving Imus a hard time because Imus missed a returned call from GE Pattersons wife yesterday.Oh, that's too bad.
I'm sure the homecoming service is going to be unreal!
South of I 90
03-21-2007, 07:44 AM
Were you listening to Imus yesterday (Tuesday)? How freaky! He was just asking Congressman Harold Ford, Jr. how Bishop Patterson was doing. They talked about him for a while and how he has been fighting prostate cancer but that he was doing better now.
WHOA!:eek:
I missed Imus on Tuesday.
I happened to see Bishop Patterson in the Memphis airport about 8 months ago. I thought he looked pretty good for someone battling cancer./
He will be missed!!
rgcraig
03-21-2007, 07:48 AM
Presiding Bishop G.E. Patterson of the Church of God in Christ died Tuesday of heart failure at 67. He fought prostate cancer in recent years.
COGIC members gather Tuesday at the Temple of Deliverance for a prayer vigil in remembrance of the late bishop. "I've lost not only a friend, but my best friend," said Bishop Jerry Maynard. Story Tools
By James Dowd
Contact
March 21, 2007
From his humble birth in a tiny West Tennessee town, Bishop G.E. Patterson rose to international prominence as the charismatic leader of one of the nation's largest Christian groups.
As presiding bishop and chief apostle of the Church of God in Christ, he oversaw a global media empire that included television, radio, Internet and publishing divisions, and he was instrumental in swelling the denomination's ranks to more than 6.5 million members in 58 countries.
Bishop Patterson died Tuesday afternoon of heart failure at Methodist University Hospital after battling prostate cancer. He was 67.
"He was progressive and a visionary, but at the same time he was a man who never forgot our heritage, and he knew the Church of God in Christ like the back of his hand," First Presiding Bishop Charles E. Blake of West Angeles COGIC in Los Angeles said Tuesday. "He was a great preacher, a pioneer of media ministries and he elevated our church in ways that touched millions of lives."
Among them, former U.S. Rep. Harold Ford Jr., who mourned the bishop's passing.
"America lost an angel today. He was favored by the Almighty and he used his favor to instruct us all on how to be better servants," Ford said in a statement. "I love him like an earthly father. The only thing that gives me some peace is that I'm certain that the Lord has already put him in charge of the humility ministry in Heaven with his chief job being to continue reminding us all that we serve an awesome and all-knowing God."
Dr. David Hall, pastor of Temple COGIC, gave the keynote address at Bishop Patterson's inauguration in 2000 and knew him for more than a quarter-century.
"He was so big, yet so human and accessible," Hall said. "He was world-renowned for his preaching, but he had such a soft touch and a loving heart for the ordinary man."
Lauded as a visionary, Bishop Patterson's influence extended beyond his Memphis pulpit. His Bountiful Blessings Ministries television program was broadcast worldwide, he served as president of gospel radio station WBBP and as president of Podium Records.
But those who knew him best said Bishop Patterson's greatest attribute was his down-to-earth personality and the ability to make everyone he came in contact with feel special.
"I've lost not only a friend, but my best friend," said Bishop Jerry Maynard, chief operating officer for the denomination. "It's like losing a part of one's self."
Historically, COGIC presiding bishops served until they died, but that changed in recent years because of Bishop Patterson's enormous popularity and support within the denomination.
In 1995, Chandler David Owens of Atlanta became presiding bishop after Bishop L.H. Ford died. Owens was expected to be re-elected to a four-year term in 1996 without opposition, but for the first time in COGIC history, the top spot was challenged.
Delegates had to choose between Owens and Bishop Patterson, who had received the most votes in the General Board election. In the runoff, Owens won by a single vote.
Expressing a desire for church unity, Bishop Patterson did not seek a recount and Owens served a four-year term.
In 2000, Bishop Patterson ran for the office and won with 59 percent of the vote, becoming the sixth leader of the denomination founded in Memphis in 1907 by Bishop Charles Harrison Mason. It marked the first time in COGIC history that a presiding bishop had been unseated.
The two faced off again in 2004, but Owens withdrew from the ballot and Bishop Patterson was unanimously elected. He announced afterward that he would not seek a third term.
Bishop Patterson is credited with expanding the denomination's appeal by focusing on traditional, Biblical teachings. He also redefined the role of presiding bishop, which he once said had become mired in bureaucracy and isolation far above the people it was created to serve.
In an attempt to be more accessible, in 2002 Bishop Patterson returned to founder Mason's practice of holding Bible studies during the annual convocation and held them every year during his time as chief apostle.
"It is a return to the older days, a time of Biblical preaching and prayer," Bishop Patterson said in an interview with The Commercial Appeal in November 2003. "Some of the membership felt it was new, but to me it was simply a matter of worshiping as I did when I was a boy."
In 2005, Bishop Patterson acknowledged he was battling prostate cancer. At the 99th annual COGIC Holy Convocation last November, he said he'd considered vacating the post, but decided against the idea.
"I asked the General Board to have a special election in April to elect an able-bodied man, but I was shouted down," Bishop Patterson said.
Rather than squabbling about denominational politics, Bishop Patterson said COGIC's focus should be on saving souls and building up the church.
And he emphasized at the time that he was ready to do his part.
"If my body being afflicted can get us back to where God wants us to be, then I'm willing to suffer," he said.
Gilbert Earl Patterson was born Sept. 22, 1939, in Humboldt, Tenn., to Bishop W.A. and Mrs. Mary Patterson. He grew up in Memphis before moving to Detroit with his family in 1952.
The young Patterson preached his first sermon at 17 and was ordained as a COGIC elder by Bishop J.S. Bailey in Detroit in 1958. In December of 1961, he returned to Memphis to become co-pastor with his father at Holy Temple COGIC in Memphis.
In 1975, after years of feuding with his uncle, then-Presiding Bishop J.O. Patterson, about establishing new congregations and jurisdictional authority, the younger Patterson left COGIC and founded Temple of Deliverance, the Cathedral of the Bountiful Blessings in Memphis.
Housed in the former Mt. Vernon Baptist Church at 547 Mississippi Blvd., the congregation outgrew the facilities within three years and a new 1,200-seat sanctuary was constructed.
With a price tag of $1.2 million, it was the city's first church built by black workers that cost more than a million dollars.
Eventually, Bishop Patterson mended the family rift and was invited back into active COGIC ministry.
Under Bishop Patterson's leadership, Temple of Deliverance COGIC moved in 1999 to a $13 million campus that featured a 5,000-seat worship center. By 2007, the church -- located at 369 G.E. Patterson -- had grown to more than 13,000 members.
Bishop Patterson is survived by his wife, Louise. Funeral arrangements are incomplete.
-- James Dowd: 529-2737
rgcraig
03-21-2007, 07:50 AM
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f108/rgcraig/21patterson_o.jpg
South of I 90
03-21-2007, 08:00 AM
thanks RC for all the info.......good stuff
rgcraig
03-21-2007, 08:02 AM
thanks RC for all the info.......good stuff
You're welcome. I didn't realize they didn't have any children.
Ronzo
03-21-2007, 08:18 AM
I always liked Bro. Patterson. Sorry to see him go home.
Steve Epley
03-21-2007, 10:57 AM
I attended a funeral last week the preacher conducting the funeral said he did not know the deceased and the man never attended anyone's church. His family actually never remember him every going to church. But his preacher calling the man by his first name put the man inside the pearly gates and I tought he was going to make God vacate the throne and give it to this man.:winkgrin The sad thing is death settles nothing. A man cannot be a false prophet and die and become the apostle of the Lamb. It is truly sad for any man to die without obeying and preaching the gospel. Instead preaching a subsitute gospel that decieved instead of saving. Was David crude in saying "Abner died as a fool dieth?" Was Jesus crude in saying "It was better this man was never born?" We preach our own funerals by what we live and believe.
ThePastorsCoach
03-21-2007, 11:14 AM
Sad he died lost.
My comment was not intended to be ugly if it came across that way I apologize I was just stating a fact the man had not obeyed the message that saves neither did he preach the message that saves. And I am sorry for anyone who dies lost. No nastiness meant if it came across that way I am sorry. But it is a fact all who die that have not obeyed Acts 2:38 is lost. Death fixes nothing that is not fixed in life. Life is for fixing not death. Death only settles the matter.
Bishop Patterson became my Pastor when I was 16 years old. He left the Church of God in Christ and had an independent ministry for 11 years. He told me many times that he had been baptized in the name of Jesus and he even preached at the National Convention of the PAW and the title of his message was JESUS ONLY! He was a man filled with the Holy Ghost. I do know that in our independent days - I heard him baptize in the Name of Jesus. You can argue this from daylight to midnight - but I heard him do it.
Did Pastor Epley or any of the rest of you hear what PETER or any other Apostle said when they baptized? Is there any account anywhere of the EXACT WORDS they said??? NOOOOOOOOOO There is NOT! And friends - that is one reason you "Apostolic" people can't even agree your selves and you fight and fuss with each other over every little issue. You are ISSUE oriented preachers. You have to be right to FEEL good about your selves and you have to ........ to hell everybody that is not just like you!
PLEASE SHOW ME THE EXACT WORDS THAT ANY APOSTLE USED IN BAPTISM! SHOW ME THE QUOTE!
I am a ministry son of G. E. Patterson and I know what he was and what he stood for. He was a man of God. He was an Apostle of Jesus Christ. Nothing you can say or do can change that.
It amazes me that I rebuked and my post was deleted and someone wrote - NAME CALLING AND PREACHER BASHING on the post because I said that someone was a liar - which was a FACT!
Elder Epley can get on here and can post that Bishop G. E. Patterson "died lost" and no rebuke whatsoever! AMAZING!
I have really thought long and hard about even posting this as I am sick of judgmental people that want to put in hell everybody that is not their brand of Pentecost.
This forum gets crazier every day. Now go ahead and have at it and bash me for having great respect and honor for one of the greatest men that has ever preached the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
The Dean
03-21-2007, 11:32 AM
Bishop Patterson became my Pastor when I was 16 years old. He left the Church of God in Christ and had an independent ministry for 11 years. He told me many times that he had been baptized in the name of Jesus and he even preached at the National Convention of the PAW and the title of his message was JESUS ONLY! He was a man filled with the Holy Ghost. I do know that in our independent days - I heard him baptize in the Name of Jesus. You can argue this from daylight to midnight - but I heard him do it.
Did Pastor Epley or any of the rest of you hear what PETER or any other Apostle said when they baptized? Is there any account anywhere of the EXACT WORDS they said??? NOOOOOOOOOO There is NOT! And friends - that is one reason you "Apostolic" people can't even agree your selves and you fight and fuss with each other over every little issue. You are ISSUE oriented preachers. You have to be right to FEEL good about your selves and you have to ........ to hell everybody that is not just like you!
PLEASE SHOW ME THE EXACT WORDS THAT ANY APOSTLE USED IN BAPTISM! SHOW ME THE QUOTE!
I am a ministry son of G. E. Patterson and I know what he was and what he stood for. He was a man of God. He was an Apostle of Jesus Christ. Nothing you can say or do can change that.
It amazes me that I rebuked and my post was deleted and someone wrote - NAME CALLING AND PREACHER BASHING on the post because I said that someone was a liar - which was a FACT!
Elder Epley can get on here and can post that Bishop G. E. Patterson "died lost" and no rebuke whatsoever! AMAZING!
I have really thought long and hard about even posting this as I am sick of judgmental people that want to put in hell everybody that is not their brand of Pentecost.
This forum gets crazier every day. Now go ahead and have at it and bash me for having great respect and honor for one of the greatest men that has ever preached the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
My first querstion would focus on the very real dilemma that he would be in if he truly believed in being baptized in Jesus Name and being filled with the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues. How can you be the presiding Bishop of a false doctrine group and not feel compelled to bring them greater revelation?
My observation through time has been that if a man was truly Apostolic then Apostolic doctrine is going to be an issue. The great command of the Apostle was simple: "Take heed to yourselves and to the doctrine." There could be no confusion in the following words that said, basically, that in doing so you save yourself and them that hear you.
He was in a position to be heard by many and yet, if he was in a position to bring greater revelation to a large organization, we see no signs of it. It is not my intent to berate a deceased man or take a cheap shot at your Pastor. However, while it seems contrary to your opinion, if the doctrine isn't worth standing for then nothing else matters. If it's not an issue then nothing else remotely qualifies.
Again, Apostolic doctrine is an issue to any real Apostolic. That, coincidentally, is what gives Bro. Epley much credibility in spite of his oft biting words. I may not agree with the bluntness of his statement but he remains a respected poster because his stance on doctrine is unwavering.
ThePastorsCoach
03-21-2007, 12:21 PM
My first querstion would focus on the very real dilemma that he would be in if he truly believed in being baptized in Jesus Name and being filled with the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues. How can you be the presiding Bishop of a false doctrine group and not feel compelled to bring them greater revelation?
My observation through time has been that if a man was truly Apostolic then Apostolic doctrine is going to be an issue. The great command of the Apostle was simple: "Take heed to yourselves and to the doctrine." There could be no confusion in the following words that said, basically, that in doing so you save yourself and them that hear you.
He was in a position to be heard by many and yet, if he was in a position to bring greater revelation to a large organization, we see no signs of it. It is not my intent to berate a deceased man or take a cheap shot at your Pastor. However, while it seems contrary to your opinion, if the doctrine isn't worth standing for then nothing else matters. If it's not an issue then nothing else remotely qualifies.
Again, Apostolic doctrine is an issue to any real Apostolic. That, coincidentally, is what gives Bro. Epley much credibility in spite of his oft biting words. I may not agree with the bluntness of his statement but he remains a respected poster because his stance on doctrine is unwavering.
You know - there are so many different BRANDS of Apostolics and you know that. I guess if you own this you can define what a "real Apostolic" is the same as CC1 can or Elder Epley can. The fact of the matter is there is hardly TWO on here that can totally agree 100% on ANYTHING!
You love to judge others - judge your own selves and let God judge the others. Yes - I do know the COGIC is a Trinitarian organization and YES I continue to preach in it and everyone I have ever baptized in it - I baptized in the Name of Jesus. But still - that is NEVER ENOUGH with you guys - It NEVER BECOMES ENOUGH to be saved!
Let's take the stupid BORAT deal - Did they have BORAT pray a prayer of repentance? NO! Did they sit him down and explain that if you want to be saved you must repent and turn from your sin and pray with him that he would REPENT???? NO - They had one thing on their minds - getting him to speak in tongues. That was not an isolated case. In UPC and Apostolic Camp meetings across America - and in altars in their churches - its SPEAK IN TONGUES. Yes - I have spoke in tongues since I was 5 years old - did that save me - NO - I had to be baptized in Jesus Name or to some that was not enough because It was not in their church or their tank. IT IS NEVER ENOUGH and you guys know it. You cannot even agree among your APOSTOLIC selves as to EXACTLY what to say. Some have told me they say something different every time. Oh, But we always "include" the name of Jesus - how sweet! Give me a break - When is the last time you went to a conference and they cast devils out, got people up out of wheel chairs and busted canes and crutches and commanded the crippled to walk. That my friend is Apostolic!
I hesitate to say I am finished with this forum - but It sickens me to see the childishness of grown men that put burdens and yokes on people that they are not even willing to bear past their own city limits. Men that preach against TV and stay up all night watching them in hotels. Porn addicts, closet homosexuals and abusers of themselves with mankind. I could call names and officials - but what good would it do - it would get ME BANNED!
GO ahead and say Bishop Patterson "died lost" but don't say anything about raving maniac that is a hater of God's people and a letter writer that says the UPC is the Great Whore! Oh yeah - HE is Apostolic! Yeah - Right! If that is "Apostolic" we are all in trouble and the whole world is going to Hell!
As I have said many times when teaching my young ministers - SHUT UP AND PREACH! I don't want to hear your ideas and opinions and what Bishop Patterson or somebody else should have done - who died and made YOU God!
Why don't you do something?
Glad to get this off my chest! And you wonder why we leave you guys and don't want to have anything to do with you??????????????
You know - there are so many different BRANDS of Apostolics and you know that. I guess if you own this you can define what a "real Apostolic" is the same as CC1 can or Elder Epley can.
Yeah, but my definition is the RIGHT one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:happydance :slaphappy :aaa
You know - there are so many different BRANDS of Apostolics and you know that. I guess if you own this you can define what a "real Apostolic" is the same as CC1 can or Elder Epley can. The fact of the matter is there is hardly TWO on here that can totally agree 100% on ANYTHING!
You love to judge others - judge your own selves and let God judge the others. Yes - I do know the COGIC is a Trinitarian organization and YES I continue to preach in it and everyone I have ever baptized in it - I baptized in the Name of Jesus. But still - that is NEVER ENOUGH with you guys - It NEVER BECOMES ENOUGH to be saved!
Let's take the stupid BORAT deal - Did they have BORAT pray a prayer of repentance? NO! Did they sit him down and explain that if you want to be saved you must repent and turn from your sin and pray with him that he would REPENT???? NO - They had one thing on their minds - getting him to speak in tongues. That was not an isolated case. In UPC and Apostolic Camp meetings across America - and in altars in their churches - its SPEAK IN TONGUES. Yes - I have spoke in tongues since I was 5 years old - did that save me - NO - I had to be baptized in Jesus Name or to some that was not enough because It was not in their church or their tank. IT IS NEVER ENOUGH and you guys know it. You cannot even agree among your APOSTOLIC selves as to EXACTLY what to say. Some have told me they say something different every time. Oh, But we always "include" the name of Jesus - how sweet! Give me a break - When is the last time you went to a conference and they cast devils out, got people up out of wheel chairs and busted canes and crutches and commanded the crippled to walk. That my friend is Apostolic!
I hesitate to say I am finished with this forum - but It sickens me to see the childishness of grown men that put burdens and yokes on people that they are not even willing to bear past their own city limits. Men that preach against TV and stay up all night watching them in hotels. Porn addicts, closet homosexuals and abusers of themselves with mankind. I could call names and officials - but what good would it do - it would get ME BANNED!
GO ahead and say Bishop Patterson "died lost" but don't say anything about raving maniac that is a hater of God's people and a letter writer that says the UPC is the Great Whore! Oh yeah - HE is Apostolic! Yeah - Right! If that is "Apostolic" we are all in trouble and the whole world is going to Hell!
As I have said many times when teaching my young ministers - SHUT UP AND PREACH! I don't want to hear your ideas and opinions and what Bishop Patterson or somebody else should have done - who died and made YOU God!
Why don't you do something?
Glad to get this off my chest! And you wonder why we leave you guys and don't want to have anything to do with you??????????????
HEy Hey...I happen to think you and I have a GREAT realtionship.....
:grampa
Dear Bishop Type Mylanta Dude! (LOL You know I love you!)
You said, and I quote,
"Epely says that G. E. Patterson dies last and he gets NO rebuke...AMAZING"!
I would like to point out two things.
#1
Below is my rebuke of him...I guess you misse that.
#2
Good thing Admin edited what I REALLY said to HIM! Just ignore him....
Fact is If he was baptized in Jesus Name and he had the Holy Ghost...Most folks would do well to shut up, back off and let GOD do his thing!
Here is what I said.
"EPELY!
That was low...I get so tired of you! Your post can be rude, judgemental and sometimes downright stupid!
What kind of man of God says those things??????
UGH! whatever....Im outta here.
PS....SO glad you are not God and dont know the heart of a man!
You are suposed to love people........Get a grip, get a life and while your at it get some altar time!"
StillStanding
03-21-2007, 02:43 PM
Dear Bishop Type Mylanta Dude! (LOL You know I love you!)
You said, and I quote,
"Epely says that G. E. Patterson dies last and he gets NO rebuke...AMAZING"!
I would like to point out two things.
#1
Below is my rebuke of him...I guess you misse that.
#2
Good thing Admin edited what I REALLY said to HIM! Just ignore him....
Fact is If he was baptized in Jesus Name and he had the Holy Ghost...Most folks would do well to shut up, back off and let GOD do his thing!
Here is what I said.
"EPELY!
That was low...I get so tired of you! Your post can be rude, judgemental and sometimes downright stupid!
What kind of man of God says those things??????
UGH! whatever....Im outta here.
PS....SO glad you are not God and dont know the heart of a man!
You are suposed to love people........Get a grip, get a life and while your at it get some altar time!"
:eek: Whoa, bro! :grampa
rrford
03-21-2007, 03:39 PM
Dear Bishop Type Mylanta Dude! (LOL You know I love you!)
You said, and I quote,
"Epely says that G. E. Patterson dies last and he gets NO rebuke...AMAZING"!
I would like to point out two things.
#1
Below is my rebuke of him...I guess you misse that.
#2
Good thing Admin edited what I REALLY said to HIM! Just ignore him....
Fact is If he was baptized in Jesus Name and he had the Holy Ghost...Most folks would do well to shut up, back off and let GOD do his thing!
Here is what I said.
"EPELY!
That was low...I get so tired of you! Your post can be rude, judgemental and sometimes downright stupid!
What kind of man of God says those things??????
UGH! whatever....Im outta here.
PS....SO glad you are not God and dont know the heart of a man!
You are suposed to love people........Get a grip, get a life and while your at it get some altar time!"
This post was out of line yesterday. It is even more out of line today.
This post was out of line yesterday. It is even more out of line today.
No its not...ADMIN edited it...I quoted as they left it:tiphat
BoredOutOfMyMind
03-21-2007, 04:02 PM
This post was out of line yesterday. It is even more out of line today.
And the post Bro Epley apologized for was correct?
rgcraig
03-21-2007, 04:03 PM
My comment was not intended to be ugly if it came across that way I apologize I was just stating a fact the man had not obeyed the message that saves neither did he preach the message that saves. And I am sorry for anyone who dies lost. No nastiness meant if it came across that way I am sorry. But it is a fact all who die that have not obeyed Acts 2:38 is lost. Death fixes nothing that is not fixed in life. Life is for fixing not death. Death only settles the matter.
He did apologize NLYP.
I enjoyed Bishop G E Patterson preaching.
Nathan Eckstadt
He did apologize NLYP.
Interpretation...Im sorry...but he still died lost...That is no Apology!
The Dean
03-21-2007, 04:42 PM
You know - there are so many different BRANDS of Apostolics and you know that. I guess if you own this you can define what a "real Apostolic" is the same as CC1 can or Elder Epley can. The fact of the matter is there is hardly TWO on here that can totally agree 100% on ANYTHING!
You love to judge others - judge your own selves and let God judge the others. Yes - I do know the COGIC is a Trinitarian organization and YES I continue to preach in it and everyone I have ever baptized in it - I baptized in the Name of Jesus. But still - that is NEVER ENOUGH with you guys - It NEVER BECOMES ENOUGH to be saved!
Let's take the stupid BORAT deal - Did they have BORAT pray a prayer of repentance? NO! Did they sit him down and explain that if you want to be saved you must repent and turn from your sin and pray with him that he would REPENT???? NO - They had one thing on their minds - getting him to speak in tongues. That was not an isolated case. In UPC and Apostolic Camp meetings across America - and in altars in their churches - its SPEAK IN TONGUES. Yes - I have spoke in tongues since I was 5 years old - did that save me - NO - I had to be baptized in Jesus Name or to some that was not enough because It was not in their church or their tank. IT IS NEVER ENOUGH and you guys know it. You cannot even agree among your APOSTOLIC selves as to EXACTLY what to say. Some have told me they say something different every time. Oh, But we always "include" the name of Jesus - how sweet! Give me a break - When is the last time you went to a conference and they cast devils out, got people up out of wheel chairs and busted canes and crutches and commanded the crippled to walk. That my friend is Apostolic!
I hesitate to say I am finished with this forum - but It sickens me to see the childishness of grown men that put burdens and yokes on people that they are not even willing to bear past their own city limits. Men that preach against TV and stay up all night watching them in hotels. Porn addicts, closet homosexuals and abusers of themselves with mankind. I could call names and officials - but what good would it do - it would get ME BANNED!
GO ahead and say Bishop Patterson "died lost" but don't say anything about raving maniac that is a hater of God's people and a letter writer that says the UPC is the Great Whore! Oh yeah - HE is Apostolic! Yeah - Right! If that is "Apostolic" we are all in trouble and the whole world is going to Hell!
As I have said many times when teaching my young ministers - SHUT UP AND PREACH! I don't want to hear your ideas and opinions and what Bishop Patterson or somebody else should have done - who died and made YOU God!
Why don't you do something?
Glad to get this off my chest! And you wonder why we leave you guys and don't want to have anything to do with you??????????????
First of all, if you are referring to me personally you don't have a clue what I do or don't do for God. I feel confident that I'm doing what God wants out of my life and it seems to be working.
Also, I do see wheelchairs emptied and canes cast aside. I have pictures showing as much. I just don't point to it as a justification of my ministry worth. I know that anything of the sort done outside of sound biblical doctrine is little more than a cheap magician or a soothsayer. The Bible does tell us that signs and wonders are possible outside the realm of righteousness.
I find it interesting as well that you seem to place as little emphasis on doctrinal purity as Bro. Epley puts much emphasis on it. You always run back to the whole 'you don't even agree among yourselves' rhetoric as if that makes a strong point. It makes about as much sense as saying, "Some stop here at the stop light and some ease on into the intersection while yet others just move in the middle of the pedestrian's walking lane. Well, since you don't even agree among yourselves I'm going just run the light!" Be careful, AB, it's the total disregard of the light that causes most catastrophes!
While I may not have agreed with the bluntness of what Bro. Epley said I have to tell you that most of the people on this board will not say that any person is saved outside of repentance, baptism in Jesus Name and being filled with the Holy Ghost. So, tell me, if doctine means so little to you how do you in your own ministry deal with the fact that the Bible tells us that if we or an angel from Heaven come preaching any other doctrine - let him be accursed?
I'm sorry that my post evidently pushed you over the edge. Being an owner, while it seems to bother you, means little in the overall spectrum of things. The forum is an Apostolic forum and I agree that there are various opinions in that wide spectrum. Even so, when you strip away our differences on standards and outward appearance the very foundation of being Apostolic is found in our Oneness and the new birth message of repentance, water baptism in Jesus Name and being filled with the Holy Ghost.
No amount of signs or wonders or positions held can justify living outside of those requirements of being Apostolic.
The Dean
03-21-2007, 04:44 PM
Interpretation...Im sorry...but he still died lost...That is no Apology!
His apology seemed clear as did his position. Do you infer that some should say he's saved?
rgcraig
03-21-2007, 05:01 PM
Interpretation...Im sorry...but he still died lost...That is no Apology!That's an apology and his opinion, so it's done.
If you want to keep fussing about it - start a separate thread.
This thread is to honor the Bishop and let those that care read what's been written about him.
His apology seemed clear as did his position. Do you infer that some should say he's saved?
I infer that if MylantaBishop...:winkgrin (he knows I love him!)
Says that he knows that G.E. Patterson was batized in Jesus Name, THAT makes him a part of the Bride. And I would 100& venture to say that the COGIC has the real HG and speaks in Real tongues.
Now my dear Brother, if those things are true, I would not say he is saved...But the Word of God would.:friend
The Dean
03-21-2007, 05:06 PM
I infer that if MylantaBishop...:winkgrin (he knows I love him!)
Says that he knows that G.E. Patterson was batized in Jesus Name, THAT makes him a part of the Bride. And I would 100& venture to say that the COGIC has the real HG and speaks in Real tongues.
Now my dear Brother, if those things are true, I would not say he is saved...But the Word of God would.:friend
So the real question would not be if he was 'saved' but if one could be saved knowing truth but promoting a false doctrine. What is your opinion of that?
Personally, I've long maintained that a trinitarian could be saved not understanding oneness but they can't go to Heaven promoting a lie.
Drama Queen
03-21-2007, 05:07 PM
I infer that if MylantaBishop...:winkgrin (he knows I love him!)
Says that he knows that G.E. Patterson was batized in Jesus Name, THAT makes him a part of the Bride. And I would 100& venture to say that the COGIC has the real HG and speaks in Real tongues.
No my dear Brother, if those things are true, I would not say he is saved...But the Word of God would.:friend
O man... here we go again!:ignore
O man... here we go again!:ignore
Baby...I am on my way home...."The Dean" has me all flustered.
Ready to go eat??
The Dean
03-21-2007, 05:17 PM
Baby...I am on my way home...."The Dean" has me all flustered.
Ready to go eat??
Sure. What do you want to eat? And it would be nice if you invited your wife to go with us. :friend
Maybe then you can answer my last question. Answers flow easier over a big steak anyway.
So the real question would not be if he was 'saved' but if one could be saved knowing truth but promoting a false doctrine. What is your opinion of that?
Personally, I've long maintained that a trinitarian could be saved not understanding oneness but they can't go to Heaven promoting a lie.
I heard many years ago that Bishop had indeed preached Jesus Name baptism on one of his telecasts...I didn't hear it, just heard about it from someone at church.
As for me, I will leave Bishop Gilbert Earl in the hands of a loving and just God...
IAintMovin
03-21-2007, 08:24 PM
Sad he died lost.
I cannot believe that ANYONE who considers themselves to be a Christian would make this kind of statement.......Hope it made you feel better......It broke my heart to see it.....you can have a right to feel that way if you desire, but some things are better left unsaid elder......
BTW ..... love your post count as of this minute.....
Whole Hearted
03-21-2007, 08:27 PM
Sad he died lost.
Yes it is. Close to the kingdom but not in it.
IAintMovin
03-21-2007, 08:29 PM
Yes it is. Close to the kingdom but not in it.
And I just THOUGHT that the elders post was the worst one that could be written......IMO you need a good praying through.......
I am SOOOOOOOOO glad that you are NOT in the judgement seat.........
rrford
03-21-2007, 08:30 PM
And the post Bro Epley apologized for was correct?
Uhm, never said that. You did notice that he APOLOGIZED though, right?
IAintMovin
03-21-2007, 08:31 PM
To keep from getting banned, I will no longer post on this subject.........I must hush or I will overstep my lines......
Whole Hearted
03-21-2007, 08:40 PM
And I just THOUGHT that the elders post was the worst one that could be written......IMO you need a good praying through.......
I am SOOOOOOOOO glad that you are NOT in the judgement seat.........
I just had a good praying through this evening thank you.
IAintMovin
03-21-2007, 08:45 PM
I just had a good praying through this evening thank you.
Dude.....fruits..... missing.....
Dude.....fruits..... missing.....
Spinning your wheels Jim....he is a class A_______________(fillin the blank)
Wholehearted...I have a question for you.....
I was told today that YOU do your daughters hair...is that true??
Whole Hearted
03-21-2007, 08:52 PM
Dude.....fruits..... missing.....
No fruit is missing. When one is in false doctrine they are in false doctrine and they are lost. The COGIC is trinity and that is false doctrine. Also the man did not teach holiness.
rgcraig
03-21-2007, 08:52 PM
Spinning your wheels Jim....he is a class A_______________(fillin the blank) GREAT GUY!!!!!!!!!! I LOVE MY POWER........
dAN, i aM kEEPING yOU oUT oF tHE dOG hOUSE......
Wholehearted...I have a question for you.....
I was told today that YOU do your daughters hair...is that true??
Class Act?
Class Act?
Well......74oq wep8fy8923 56 -1235;18y[9pe6f shf syf s8dy pvwefw6587687087TI&^D% GLI*&P*&%&^$EO*&PW(*HSIUG DSG
Ad he is a real &%(*%^#&^%O*& *&%)^&
Ill pm you the decoder! LOL:slaphappy
IAintMovin
03-21-2007, 08:59 PM
No fruit is missing. When one is in false doctrine they are in false doctrine and they are lost. The COGIC is trinity and that is false doctrine. Also the man did not teach holiness.
So am I to assume that you PERSONALLY knew him and visited with him about this matter and these are things that he PERSONALLY told you?
Either way, I have found that it is always kinder to speak kind of someone than ATTEMPT to make your self feel better about yourself by pointing at faults.
If the man was not ready to meet God that is between him and God, if he was and you say he was not, YOU will have to answer to God concerning this matter. I would not want to be in your shoes.
rgcraig
03-21-2007, 09:02 PM
So am I to assume that you PERSONALLY knew him and visited with him about this matter and these are things that he PERSONALLY told you?
Either way, I have found that it is always kinder to speak kind of someone than ATTEMPT to make your self feel better about yourself by pointing at faults.
If the man was not ready to meet God that is between him and God, if he was and you say he was not, YOU will have to answer to God concerning this matter. I would not want to be in your shoes.
Great post!
IAintMovin
03-21-2007, 09:04 PM
Great post!
Thanks, I really need to shut up now on this matter......I PMed him my number and will take it up to any other extent in private.......I hope that the man was ready to meet God, I did not know him, so I will not say one way or the other....
To AB - sorry for your loss.
Thanks, I really need to shut up now on this matter......I PMed him my number and will take it up to any other extent in private.......I hope that the man was ready to meet God, I did not know him, so I will not say one way or the other....
To AB - sorry for your loss.
Lord would love to listen!!!! LOL:winkgrin :winkgrin
He just Pmed me the answer to my question...man would I love to go public:toofunny :toofunny :toofunny :toofunny That face says it all!
rgcraig
03-21-2007, 09:07 PM
I didn't respond yesterday when I first read it. My blood ran cold - - just too close to playing God to me for someone to state something so bold.
rrford
03-21-2007, 09:08 PM
Lord would love to listen!!!! LOL:winkgrin :winkgrin
He just Pmed me the answer to my question...man would I love to go public:toofunny :toofunny :toofunny :toofunny That face says it all!
Come on Dan. I think the "assertion" you are trying to make is beneath you.
rgcraig
03-21-2007, 09:08 PM
NLYP is that some new type baptism tank you are in?
rrford
03-21-2007, 09:09 PM
I didn't respond yesterday when I first read it. My blood ran cold - - just too close to playing God to me for someone to state something so bold.
True. But Epley did apologize. It is a hard subject. Makes one wonder how the prophets would have responded if asked.
rgcraig
03-21-2007, 09:10 PM
True. But Epley did apologize. It is a hard subject. Makes one wonder how the prophets would have responded if asked.
He did and like I told Dan we need to accept the apology and accept the fact that it's his opinion.
Steve Epley
03-21-2007, 09:14 PM
I didn't respond yesterday when I first read it. My blood ran cold - - just too close to playing God to me for someone to state something so bold.
I am sorry again I posted it I did not mean to be callous it was the feeling of my heart. I believe everyone outside the Apostolic church is lost. If the Bishop was baptized in Jesus Name in his past he certainly did nothing with it in leading the largest black denomination in America today. It was sad Bishop Mason was baptized in Jesus Name and I quoted right from his own writings where he said the exact opposite. C. L. Franklin was a great speaker but lost.
No one is saved outside of obeying Acts 2:38 and to know it and NOT preach it is even worse.
rgcraig
03-21-2007, 09:17 PM
I am sorry again I posted it I did not mean to be callous it was the feeling of my heart. I believe everyone outside the Apostolic church is lost. If the Bishop was baptized in Jesus Name in his past he certainly did nothing with it in leading the largest black denomination in America today. It was sad Bishop Mason was baptized in Jesus Name and I quoted right from his own writings where he said the exact opposite. C. L. Franklin was a great speaker but lost.
No one is saved outside of obeying Acts 2:38 and to know it and NOT preach it is even worse.
Elder, I respect you and your conviction and appreciate your apology.
I work with several that attend his church and they are wonderful Christians - it's just very hard for me to send them to hell.
freeatlast
03-21-2007, 09:17 PM
So the real question would not be if he was 'saved' but if one could be saved knowing truth but promoting a false doctrine. What is your opinion of that?
Personally, I've long maintained that a trinitarian could be saved not understanding oneness but they can't go to Heaven promoting a lie.
But we can teach all our man made doctrines of "holiness". Making scripture's say what it in no way says, and we all get a free pass to glory.
With what judgment we judge we shall be judged.
Mr Dean...you should pray to God you got it all right. Every jot every tittle.
slave4him
03-21-2007, 09:24 PM
Elder, I respect you and your conviction and appreciate your apology.
I work with several that attend his church and they are wonderful Christians - it's just very hard for me to send them to hell.
The thing is sister you or me do not send them to hell. The word of God does. I loved this mans singing and yes he was very annointed. That in no way tells of his salvation.
Romans 11:29
For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
I am not going to say that GE Paterson is lost because I wasn't their when he died nor do I know what of the Word he obeyed or didn't obey. I do know that if he had sin in his life of any kind that he didn't get under the blood then he isn't saved. Because sin seperates us from God. It is also plain in the word of God that anyone who preaches another gospel is accursed.
So Bro. Epely or no one here is sending him to hell the word of God does that if he wasn't what he should have been.
rgcraig
03-21-2007, 09:27 PM
The thing is sister you or me do not send them to hell. The word of God does. I loved this mans singing and yes he was very annointed. That in no way tells of his salvation.
Romans 11:29
For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
I am not going to say that GE Paterson is lost because I wasn't their when he died nor do I know what of the Word he obeyed or didn't obey. I do know that if he had sin in his life of any kind that he didn't get under the blood then he isn't saved. Because sin seperates us from God. It is also plain in the word of God that anyone who preaches another gospel is accursed.
So Bro. Epely or no one here is sending him to hell the word of God does that if he wasn't what he should have been.
I understand that. I'd just rather not be the judge deciding who I think is or isn't going to heaven.
slave4him
03-21-2007, 09:33 PM
But we can teach all our man made doctrines of "holiness". Making scripture's say what it in no way says, and we all get a free pass to glory.
With what judgment we judge we shall be judged.
Mr Dean...you should pray to God you got it all right. Every jot every tittle.
Love how people allways like to quote that and don't read any further.
Matthew 7
1Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
rgcraig
03-21-2007, 09:40 PM
Love how people allways like to quote that and don't read any further.
Matthew 7
1Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.Excellent scripture! Believe every word of it!
The Dean
03-22-2007, 12:16 AM
But we can teach all our man made doctrines of "holiness". Making scripture's say what it in no way says, and we all get a free pass to glory.
With what judgment we judge we shall be judged.
Mr Dean...you should pray to God you got it all right. Every jot every tittle.
Question: How in the world did you get any of this as a result of my post? Not one solitary thing was said about standards. I personally think that some of you folks just live to take pot shots at those who love separation.
I've stated three times already that I think it was a poor choice of words for Bro. Epley. Yet, he did apologize and has the credibility of being unwavering in his love for doctrine.
So, 'Mr. Free', perhaps you should answer the question: Perhaps one can be saved not totally understanding truth but can a person be saved promoting a lie?
Question: How in the world did you get any of this as a result of my post? Not one solitary thing was said about standards. I personally think that some of you folks just live to take pot shots at those who love separation.
I've stated three times already that I think it was a poor choice of words for Bro. Epley. Yet, he did apologize and has the credibility of being unwavering in his love for doctrine.
So, 'Mr. Free', perhaps you should answer the question: Perhaps one can be saved not totally understanding truth but can a person be saved promoting a lie?
There are some who preach it like I believe it whom I have serious doubts about...the bottom line?!
I heard many years ago that Bishop had indeed preached Jesus Name baptism on one of his telecasts...I didn't hear it, just heard about it from someone at church.
As for me, I will leave Bishop Gilbert Earl in the hands of a loving and just God...
Bishop Patterson .... 1992 ... THIS SAME JESUS.
dpJwVVXv1UI
5Qqvk_gUt8Y
When the Dust Settles ... Bishop Patterson tries to preach while the HG ... falls down.
Steve Epley
03-23-2007, 12:23 AM
Every preacher that does not preach the Acts 2:38 message is lost. It is that simple I don't care if he is the Bishop of a large denomination or a jack leg preacher preaching under a shade tree. No one is saved outside of the Acts2:38 message in this dispensation.
Every preacher that does not preach the Acts 2:38 message is lost. It is that simple I don't care if he is the Bishop of a large denomination or a jack leg preacher preaching under a shade tree. No one is saved outside of the Acts2:38 message in this dispensation.
THUS saith our residenr fourth person in the Godhead!:grampa
ThePastorsCoach
03-23-2007, 12:42 AM
Every preacher that does not preach the Acts 2:38 message is lost. It is that simple I don't care if he is the Bishop of a large denomination or a jack leg preacher preaching under a shade tree. No one is saved outside of the Acts2:38 message in this dispensation.
You are entitled to you opinion and you are WRONG! God did not quit speaking two thousand years ago. There is more in the Bible than Acts 2:38.
If you don't love your brother - you won't be one of the chosen few!
I thought this was supposed to be the Apostolic Friends Forum - Not the I am the only one saved forum!
I know I am wasting my breath and thanks guys for your PM's - But I do want him to know - HE IS WRONG!
Steadfast
03-23-2007, 12:48 AM
THUS saith our residenr fourth person in the Godhead!:grampa
You are entitled to you opinion and you are WRONG! God did not quit speaking two thousand years ago. There is more in the Bible than Acts 2:38.
If you don't love your brother - you won't be one of the chosen few!
I thought this was supposed to be the Apostolic Friends Forum - Not the I am the only one saved forum!
I know I am wasting my breath and thanks guys for your PM's - But I do want him to know - HE IS WRONG!
Okay folks, let's ask the question and leave it open for an answer... Can someone be saved outside of obedience to Acts 2:38?
To me it seems that, at the very least, to be Apostolic you have to obey the Apostles doctrine. What say ye? And sincerely, Atlanta, you really aren't saying much when you say there is more to preach than Acts 2:38. We're not talking about the process of living for God as much as being born again. Can that happen outside of Acts 2:38?
Steadfast
03-23-2007, 12:51 AM
Okay folks, let's ask the question and leave it open for an answer... Can someone be saved outside of obedience to Acts 2:38?
To me it seems that, at the very least, to be Apostolic you have to obey the Apostles doctrine. What say ye? And sincerely, Atlanta, you really aren't saying much when you say there is more to preach than Acts 2:38. We're not talking about the process of living for God as much as being born again. Can that happen outside of Acts 2:38?
Whoa! Now THAT is neat! I just noticed on my post that all scriptural references are quick links to that scripture!
Thanks, Admin! It makes posting things like John 3:5-7 much more meaningful!
Whoa! Now THAT is neat! I just noticed on my post that all scriptural references are quick links to that scripture!
Thanks, Admin! It makes posting things like John 3:5-7 much more meaningful!
WELL...YABO SHUNDAI...teach Epely the one that says "Judge NOT lest YE be Judged"
Lets start our little discussion there...shall we.
Steadfast
03-23-2007, 01:10 AM
WELL...YABO SHUNDAI...teach Epely the one that says "Judge NOT lest YE be Judged"
Lets start our little discussion there...shall we.
Well, it was an interesting post but didn't come close to answering the question. Additionally, carefully lay that 'judge not that ye be not judged' beside the 'ye shall know them by their fruits' and you pretty much lose that argument.
Again, can ANYBODY in this dispensation be saved outside of obedience to the New Birth as outlined in Acts 2:38? Not our opinions or hopes... we all have those... but according to sound solid scripture can ANYBODY bypass Acts 2:38 for finding salvation.
:nah
Steadfast
03-23-2007, 01:13 AM
By the way, "Judge not that ye be not judged" is Matthew 7:1 and knowing them by their fruits is in the same chapter 15 verses later in Matthew 7:16.
Steve Epley
03-23-2007, 07:50 AM
WELL...YABO SHUNDAI...teach Epely the one that says "Judge NOT lest YE be Judged"
Lets start our little discussion there...shall we.
Dan why is it that YOU have posted in times past you believed only those who had obeyed Acts 2:38 are saved???????????? Have you changed your mind? Someone dying does not change that fact even if it is MY family.
And quoting that passage it might be fair to quote the rest of the passage."For with what judgment ye judge ye shall be judged." YOU and I will be judged by Jesus words Jn. 12:48 and Pauls preaching Rom. 2:16 NOT some adlive made up on the spot judgment. Those "books" opened are the 66 books of your Bible.
AB I had no intent to offend you nor anyone on this forum with my statement I think it was ill-advised and I apologized yet if I act like I think someone is saved outside of what I think the Bible demands I fool no one not even myself. I was making a sincere statement not a cut or slander though it came out that way. I have buried my OWN family who died outside the church and it is sad they died lost. I told my mother I dearly loved goodbye forever she died outside the church. Though I loved her dearly God is NOT going to rewrite the Bible for me. She along with everyone else have choices and how they exercise them will determine eternity for them not my personal feelings.
I realize I mostly stand here alone because most posters on here think it is nearly impossible to be lost belief matters little if anything. However I do believe what I preach. I make no apologies for that.
Timmy
03-23-2007, 08:12 AM
Okay folks, let's ask the question and leave it open for an answer... Can someone be saved outside of obedience to Acts 2:38?
To me it seems that, at the very least, to be Apostolic you have to obey the Apostles doctrine. What say ye? And sincerely, Atlanta, you really aren't saying much when you say there is more to preach than Acts 2:38. We're not talking about the process of living for God as much as being born again. Can that happen outside of Acts 2:38?
Should we also obey Matthew 28:19?
Matthew 28:19 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost
If the following scriptures be true ...
Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
and
1 Corinthians 12:13
"For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.
Then would you say that a trinitarian, like the Bishop, filled with the baptism of the Holy Ghost IS HIS or NOT HIS?
or perhaps .....
Do they have a false Holy Ghost? ....
Someone saying they received a "false" Holy Ghost is in direct contradiction of the scriptures if they are seeking the HG. You can't get a counterfeit if you're seeking the real thing. "How much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Ghost to them that ask Him?"
Should we judge their HG by their tongues?
While tongues is the indeed the physical evidence of the baptsim of the Holy Ghost but according to the bible it is a sign for the unbeliever ....
so, us as believers .... what should we look for ????
MOW said it best in the His or Not His
"Check the fruit!" It is not hard to see who has the fruit, tongues or no tongues. I've seen people with more of the fruit of the spirit who didn't speak with tongues than some who boasted of their tongues and even Jesus' name experience.
I'll take someone with a "walk" over someone with a "talk" any day of the week.
If God is omniscient and is the ONLY one who can baptize someone with Himself, then it would stand to reason that they are completely accepted by Him. To presume otherwise, IMO, is dangerous, ludicrous and just plain not smart.
How can a mere man or woman conclude that God gives His spirit to someone whom He has not accepted except by the acceptance of man's interpretation of scripture instead of God's actions. Our interpretation needs to line up with God's actions or we don't correctly understand His word.
If we are going to interpret all of God's Word ... using the whole counsel of the word then ... we need to realize that God is moving, sealing, and baptizing a Bride, His Body unto himself.
If we were to ask the Bishop he would have told us that he obeyed Acts 2:38.
Steve Epley
03-23-2007, 08:30 AM
If the following scriptures be true ...
Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
and
1 Corinthians 12:13
"For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.
Then would you say that a trinitarian, like the Bishop, filled with the baptism of the Holy Ghost IS HIS or NOT HIS?
or perhaps .....
Do they have a false Holy Ghost? ....
Someone saying they received a "false" Holy Ghost is in direct contradiction of the scriptures if they are seeking the HG. You can't get a counterfeit if you're seeking the real thing. "How much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Ghost to them that ask Him?"
Should we judge their HG by their tongues?
While tongues is the indeed the physical evidence of the baptsim of the Holy Ghost but according to the bible it is a sign for the unbeliever ....
so, us as believers .... what should we look for ????
MOW said it best in the His or Not His
If we are going to interpret all of God's Word ... using the whole counsel of the word then ... we need to realize that God is moving, sealing, and baptizing a Bride, His Body unto himself.
If we were to ask the Bishop he would have told us that he obeyed Acts 2:38.
IF the Bishop had his sins remitted by baptism in Jesus Name (which I seriously doubt) he is guilty for not preaching that message and by influence leading his denomination to continue in the error Bishop Mason probagated thus causing millions to be lost. The POPE would tell you he obeyed Acts 2 :38 so what?? Billy (goat) Graham would say the same thing. OPral Roberts and EVERY false prophet living and dead would probably say the same. Saying it and doing it is two different things.
IF the Bishop had his sins remitted by baptism in Jesus Name (which I seriously doubt) he is guilty for not preaching that message and by influence leading his denomination to continue in the error Bishop Mason probagated thus causing millions to be lost. The POPE would tell you he obeyed Acts 2 :38 so what?? Billy (goat) Graham would say the same thing. OPral Roberts and EVERY false prophet living and dead would probably say the same. Saying it and doing it is two different things.
We could go into the discussion of forgiveness and remission meaing the same thing ... aphesis ... or we could discuss how it's the blood and not water that remits sins ... but why beat that horse ...
Let's discuss the fact that God baptized him with his Holy Spirit and scripture says he's HIS ... and part of the body .... whay say ye, Elder????
Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
and
1 Corinthians 12:13
"For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.
These same scriptures are used by PAJCers to say why the BAPTISM of the HG is REQUIRED .... for salvation ... yet it seems to only apply to those that interpret scripture as they do .... where is the consisitency???
mizpeh
03-23-2007, 08:40 AM
Should we also obey Matthew 28:19?
Matthew 28:19 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost
We obey Matthew 28:19 when we are baptized in the NAME of Jesus Christ.
Steve Epley
03-23-2007, 08:41 AM
We could go into the discussion of forgiveness and remission meaing the same thing ... aphesis ... or we could discuss how it's the blood and not water that remits sins ... but why beat that horse ...
Let's discuss the fact that God baptized him with his Holy Spirit and scripture says he's HIS ... and part of the body .... whay say ye, Elder????
I am NOT saying the good Bishop never recieved the Holy Ghost but if he did he certainly did not follow it. The Holy Ghost would lead a preacher to stand and preach for truth. And after a long ministry and still failing to preach truth?
Sorry I don't believe it. And NO it takes MORE than HGB to put you in the body these folks in Corinth had been water baptized in Jesus Name. The focus here is giving everyone their right place in the body through HGB he is not discussing the plan of salvation rather the position and work in the local body. NO ONE is in the church without baptism in Jesus Name.:tiphat
I am NOT saying the good Bishop never recieved the Holy Ghost but if he did he certainly did not follow it. The Holy Ghost would lead a preacher to stand and preach for truth. And after a long ministry and still failing to preach truth?
Sorry I don't believe it. And NO it takes MORE than HGB to put you in the body these folks in Corinth had been water baptized in Jesus Name. The focus here is giving everyone their right place in the body through HGB he is not discussing the plan of salvation rather the position and work in the local body. NO ONE is in the church without baptism in Jesus Name.:tiphat
That applies if you are a "water and spirit" man .... Not all of us are.
Steve Epley
03-23-2007, 08:45 AM
That applies if you are a "water and spirit" man .... Not all of us are.
Jesus was a 'water & Spirit' man thus I am in good company! YOU howver are in company with the majority of false prophets living and dead.
mizpeh
03-23-2007, 08:46 AM
Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
and
1 Corinthians 12:13
"For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.
These same scriptures are used by PAJCers to say why the BAPTISM of the HG is REQUIRED .... for salvation ... yet it seems to only apply to those that interpret scripture as they do .... where is the consisitency???
Being born of the Spirit is only one part of the new birth. John 3
There is the doctrine of "baptisms". Heb 6:1-2 And the verses that state baptism (water) saves us.
Timmy
03-23-2007, 08:54 AM
We obey Matthew 28:19 when we are baptized in the NAME of Jesus Christ.
OK. Are we disobeying Acts 2:38 if we baptize using the Matthew 28:19 wording?
Elder ... Jesus was a new birth man ... Where we, you and I, differ is in the interpretation of John 3 ..... You have equated water with water baptism ... while others see it as something else ..
Clearly in John Jesus and Nicodemus were having a conversation about the new covenant that was promised through the prophets....
Ezekiel 36
24For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
25Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
If water in John 3 is water baptism should we do as God said he do would by SPRINKLING water... in verse 24 of Ezekiel .... and how will we get to the heart ... surgery?
Jesus promised his Spirit would be living waters also ...
Gentlemen where does scripture equate water baptism with being born of the water /Spirit??????
Steve Epley
03-23-2007, 09:14 AM
Elder ... Jesus was a new birth man ... Where we, you and I, differ is in the interpretation of John 3 ..... You have equated water with water baptism ... while others see it as something else ..
Clearly in John Jesus and Nicodemus were having a conversation about the new covenant that was promised throught the prophets....
Ezekiel 36
24For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
25Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
If water in John 3 is water baptism should we do as God said he would by SPRINKLING ... in verse 24 of Ezekiel .... and how will we get to the heart ... surgery?
Jesus promised his Spirit would be living waters also ...
Gentlemen where does scripture equate water baptism with being born of the water??????
The question was about being born AGAIN.
But to answer the question we have discussed over and over:
Mk. 16:16, Mt. 28:19, Luke 24:47, Acts 2:38, etc.
The question was about being born AGAIN.
But to answer the question we have discussed over and over:
Mk. 16:16, Mt. 28:19, Luke 24:47, Acts 2:38, etc.
You don't have a scripture do you to equate water baptism to being born again ... or the New birth ... do you ... ???
The scriptures you have provided discuss the necessity of obeying Jesus command for baptism ...
Steve Epley
03-23-2007, 09:22 AM
You don't have a scripture do you to equate water baptism to being born again ... or the New birth ... do you ... ???
The scriptures you have provided discuss the necessity of obeying Jesus command for baptism ...
Born of the Spirit is baptism thus born of water is baptism very simple. The Blood-water-Spirit agree in one that is one birth.
Born of the Spirit is baptism thus born of water is baptism very simple. The Blood-water-Spirit agree in one that is one birth.
I await the scripture ....
Steadfast
03-23-2007, 09:45 AM
NOBODY has aswered the question yet: Can ANYBODY be saved outside of obedience to Acts 2:38? Why are there no answers to this?
Timmy, you are obeying Matthew 28:19 when you baptize in the NAME of Jesus for it IS the NAME of the Father, the NAME of the Son and the NAME of the Holy Ghost.
At the very least, folks, one would have to believe in repentance, Baptism in Jesus Name and receiving the Holy Ghost to genuinely have any claim to being Apostolic! What is with the folks that claim to be Apostolic and don't come close to believing Acts 2:38 which defines the basic doctrinal foundation.
If you think you 'become' something just because you 'claim' the title it's ludicrous... I think I'll claim to be Bill Gates! Wait... no, just looked in my wallet and I'm not Bill Gates. Why? Because I don't have what Bill Gates has! Some folks seem to claim 'Apostolic' as their title and yet seem to think you can get to Heaven in this dispensation without obedience to our basic scriptural tenet. If you fall in that category then you're NOT Apostolic because you don't have what the Apostolics had.
Much of this debate could end with the answer of the real question. Again, the question: Do you think you can be saved in this dispensation outside of obedience to Acts 2:38?
Felicity
03-23-2007, 09:47 AM
NOBODY has aswered the question yet: Can ANYBODY be saved outside of obedience to Acts 2:38? Why are there no answers to this?My answer is no.
Timmy
03-23-2007, 09:51 AM
My answer is no.
I say Yes. The thief on the cross is one example.
Steadfast
03-23-2007, 10:01 AM
I say Yes. The thief on the cross is one example.
Wrong dispensation, Slick. The theif was in a different dispensation... one before Jesus died and, thus, the 'will of the testator' was not yet in effect.
Next answer?
The Dean
03-23-2007, 10:09 AM
So the real question would not be if he was 'saved' but if one could be saved knowing truth but promoting a false doctrine. What is your opinion of that?
Personally, I've long maintained that a trinitarian could be saved not understanding oneness but they can't go to Heaven promoting a lie.
Okay folks, let's ask the question and leave it open for an answer... Can someone be saved outside of obedience to Acts 2:38?
To me it seems that, at the very least, to be Apostolic you have to obey the Apostles doctrine. What say ye? And sincerely, Atlanta, you really aren't saying much when you say there is more to preach than Acts 2:38. We're not talking about the process of living for God as much as being born again. Can that happen outside of Acts 2:38?
Steadfast, those questions have been asked before as you see in a prior post. You will not get an answer. Opinions are more important than scriptural truth in some.
The Dean
03-23-2007, 10:13 AM
My answer is no.
My "NO" is an emphatic one. I agree with you Felicity.
Steadfast
03-23-2007, 10:17 AM
I have no problem answering the question, either. I don't think anybody can be saved outside of obedience to the scriptural mandate of Acts 2:38. It's not the 'cure all' but its the door into the Kingdom.
My answer? NO.
NOBODY has aswered the question yet: Can ANYBODY be saved outside of obedience to Acts 2:38? Why are there no answers to this?
Timmy, you are obeying Matthew 28:19 when you baptize in the NAME of Jesus for it IS the NAME of the Father, the NAME of the Son and the NAME of the Holy Ghost.
At the very least, folks, one would have to believe in repentance, Baptism in Jesus Name and receiving the Holy Ghost to genuinely have any claim to being Apostolic! What is with the folks that claim to be Apostolic and don't come close to believing Acts 2:38 which defines the basic doctrinal foundation.
If you think you 'become' something just because you 'claim' the title it's ludicrous... I think I'll claim to be Bill Gates! Wait... no, just looked in my wallet and I'm not Bill Gates. Why? Because I don't have what Bill Gates has! Some folks seem to claim 'Apostolic' as their title and yet seem to think you can get to Heaven in this dispensation without obedience to our basic scriptural tenet. If you fall in that category then you're NOT Apostolic because you don't have what the Apostolics had.
Much of this debate could end with the answer of the real question. Again, the question: Do you think you can be saved in this dispensation outside of obedience to Acts 2:38?
No ... this debate has not yet ended ... Steadfast ... the question still stands whether or not Bishop Patterson obeyed Acts 2:38 .... He indeed did.
and I say if he repented
was baptized in the name [authority, power] of Jesus Christ
was Spirit baptized
and lived a Spirit-filled and consecrated life in obedience to God's Word ... THE ANSWER IS YES IT IS VERY LIKELY HE IS SAVED
ALL OF GOD'S WORD IS NECESSARY FOR SALVATION.
Paul .... and Apostle said ...
James 2
14What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
Shall we add James 2:15 ... or Genesis 1:1 ?????
Timmy
03-23-2007, 11:22 AM
Wrong dispensation, Slick. The theif was in a different dispensation... one before Jesus died and, thus, the 'will of the testator' was not yet in effect.
Next answer?
Oops, my bad.
OK, let me ask you this. You are 100% certain that you have the correct formula for salvation, straight from Scripture, clear as day. Right? Never mind that there are some who disagree (they must be evil folks, not to accept such a clear command from the Lord). You have it right, and they have it wrong. Fine.
Suppose on your first day in Heaven, you are given the job, the honor, of manning The Gate for a day. They give you a really nice laptop computer that has all the information you need about each candidate's life. The exact wording used at their baptism, the full history of their life, including the state of their hearts! (I said it was a nice laptop!)
Now, before you get started, Peter himself starts to tell you what to look for. Do you stop him and say "No, that's OK. I already know. Read it, understand it, no need to repeat it."?
Peter says, "Oh, good for you! Alright, then, I'll be back in a few hours to check on things."
First candidate. Your hand is on The Switch. (It has an "Up" position and a "Down" position. It's in "Neutral" for now.) Looking over this guy's records, you see that everything is in order. Oopsie! Except for one thing. The preacher that baptized the poor guy said, according to the audio, "...in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit". Ah, so close.
DOWN!
Yes, this is an impossible, ridiculous hypothetical situation. But, just asking: are you really that certain you have it right?
But in fact, it's not so hypothetical. By preaching what you are preaching, everyone who believes you is trusting you! Trusting that you got it right. Resting their own eternal lives on what you have taught them.
Nervous? No? Not even a little??
One would have to subscribe to dispensationalism to make your claim Steadfast ... their are many God-fearing Apostolics that don't
berkeley
03-23-2007, 01:30 PM
One would have to subscribe to dispensationalism to make your claim Steadfast ... their are many God-fearing Apostolics that don't
Do you??
Steadfast
03-23-2007, 01:30 PM
Oops, my bad.
OK, let me ask you this. You are 100% certain that you have the correct formula for salvation, straight from Scripture, clear as day. Right? Never mind that there are some who disagree (they must be evil folks, not to accept such a clear command from the Lord). You have it right, and they have it wrong. Fine.
Suppose on your first day in Heaven, you are given the job, the honor, of manning The Gate for a day. They give you a really nice laptop computer that has all the information you need about each candidate's life. The exact wording used at their baptism, the full history of their life, including the state of their hearts! (I said it was a nice laptop!)
Now, before you get started, Peter himself starts to tell you what to look for. Do you stop him and say "No, that's OK. I already know. Read it, understand it, no need to repeat it."?
Peter says, "Oh, good for you! Alright, then, I'll be back in a few hours to check on things."
First candidate. Your hand is on The Switch. (It has an "Up" position and a "Down" position. It's in "Neutral" for now.) Looking over this guy's records, you see that everything is in order. Oopsie! Except for one thing. The preacher that baptized the poor guy said, according to the audio, "...in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit". Ah, so close.
DOWN!
Yes, this is an impossible, ridiculous hypothetical situation. But, just asking: are you really that certain you have it right?
But in fact, it's not so hypothetical. By preaching what you are preaching, everyone who believes you is trusting you! Trusting that you got it right. Resting their own eternal lives on what you have taught them.
Nervous? No? Not even a little??
Timmy,
No, to be quite honest, I'm not even a 'little' nervous. I have a command from on high to 'rightly divide the word of truth' and see what the Bible says about matters of salvation. I rest assured in my deepest heart of hearts that the Acts 2:38 message is the right way or I would be something else!
As for the whole 'Peter step back and let me make the decisions here' stuff you were trying to say... I have no clue how to make sense out of it. If you're saying that I imply to know more than the Apostle I would refute that vehemently; I take my instructions from him!
How is it that you come to enjoy an Apostolic forum without being Apostolic? Again, the ground level of being an Apostolic is the New Birth of Acts 2:38 and it's verified by the rest of the scriptures.
The one thing that those who argue the whole 'are you saying Matthew 28:19 isn't acceptable' and 'I think people can be saved without the New Birth' are missing is that God is Sovereign. He makes the rules (yes, rules) and not us. I find it somewhere on the fragile border of funny and sad that anybody would dare stand in the face of God and say, "Well, I know what you said but this is what I think..."
As to whether Patterson was baptized in Jesus Name I don't know. Most likely he was filled with the Holy Ghost at one point. But the 'fruits' by which we know them tell us that if he was sold to the Apostolic message he sure forgot to hand it to his organization.
How is it that you come to enjoy an Apostolic forum without being Apostolic? Again, the ground level of being an Apostolic is the New Birth of Acts 2:38 and it's verified by the rest of the scriptures.
If by New Birth and Apostolic you mean the PAJC view of Acts 2:38 ... then about half of us would not fit your definition, Elder .....
but I thank God .... I'm more Apostolic than .....................???????????
Steadfast
03-23-2007, 01:36 PM
One would have to subscribe to dispensationalism to make your claim Steadfast ... their are many God-fearing Apostolics that don't
Be that as it may, you have still tip toed around the questions asked long before your statements were imposed: Can ANYBODY be saved outside of obedience to Acts 2:38?
Again, I've made it clear that that is just the entrance level of salvation and not a 'cure all' that means nothing else matters. Anybody with any maturity knows that.
I still say that, according to scripture, one MUST obey the New Birth to be saved. And, as another stated, you can't promote a false doctrine and be saved. That is a huge chasm in the whole process of being 'Apostolic' while leading false doctrine without an attempt to bring truth to them.
I cannot, even in all of scripture, understand being Apostolic myself and then promoting a false doctrine without paying an eternal price.
Sometimes I wonder whose fruit we're talking about ... whose fruit is on display? ... our interpretations of scripture and doctrine ... or HIS FRUIT ....
We are just branches .... He is the Vine. Bishop Patterson displayed His fruit because he received His Spirit ....
Be that as it may, you have still tip toed around the questions asked long before your statements were imposed: Can ANYBODY be saved outside of obedience to Acts 2:38?
Again, I've made it clear that that is just the entrance level of salvation and not a 'cure all' that means nothing else matters. Anybody with any maturity knows that.
I still say that, according to scripture, one MUST obey the New Birth to be saved. And, as another stated, you can't promote a false doctrine and be saved. That is a huge chasm in the whole process of being 'Apostolic' while leading false doctrine without an attempt to bring truth to them.
I cannot, even in all of scripture, understand being Apostolic myself and then promoting a false doctrine without paying an eternal price.
Would not preaching the standards/holiness doctrine as other conservative Apostolics also disqualify one from heaven since it would be considered "false"?
Or perhaps being an Apostolic Sabbatarian would split the gates of hell???
Timmy
03-23-2007, 01:40 PM
As for the whole 'Peter step back and let me make the decisions here' stuff you were trying to say... I have no clue how to make sense out of it. If you're saying that I imply to know more than the Apostle I would refute that vehemently; I take my instructions from him!
Not at all. I was just wondering if you are certain that you understood his instructions (Peter's instructions, as recorded in Acts) so well that you would not need to hear them again, perhaps clarified and explained in more detail, before you assume your duties as gate keeper. So well that you would confidently throw the switch to "down" if the wrong words were spoken at someone's baptism.
Just trying to understand.
Oh my! I just had a thought. What if they gave the job to a Morman, on the day I arrive? :uhoh
Steadfast
03-23-2007, 01:40 PM
If by New Birth and Apostolic you mean the PAJC view of Acts 2:38 ... then about half of us would not fit your definition, Elder .....
but I thank God .... I'm more Apostolic than .....................???????????
Sorry, I don't buy into the whole 'baptism is optional' theory. I think to walk in salvation you have to walk in obedience and that mandates baptism as well.
So, if you think you're saved at receiving the Holy Ghost then I'll let you dwell in that 'tedious' place without argument for now... but do you espouse the idea that you don't have to go on to baptism if you intend to walk with God?
Again, you won't answer the 'can you be saved outside of Acts 2:38' question.
The Greatest Leader since their founder, Bishop Mason, Bishop GE Patterson Passed away today.
I really enjoyed his music, visiting his church and even his preaching
But why are there soooooooooooo many COGIC churches (most of them storefront) in Buffalo?
Sorry, I don't buy into the whole 'baptism is optional' theory. I think to walk in salvation you have to walk in obedience and that mandates baptism as well.
So, if you think you're saved at receiving the Holy Ghost then I'll let you dwell in that 'tedious' place without argument for now... but do you espouse the idea that you don't have to go on to baptism if you intend to walk with God?
Again, you won't answer the 'can you be saved outside of Acts 2:38' question.
Sir ... can someone be saved ... prior to completeing THE 3 SEQUENTIAL STEPS ... let's say because their life is cut short? This has been our perennial question .... hasn't it???
Steadfast
03-23-2007, 01:43 PM
Not at all. I was just wondering if you are certain that you understood his instructions (Peter's instructions, as recorded in Acts) so well that you would not need to hear them again, perhaps clarified and explained in more detail, before you assume your duties as gate keeper. So well that you would confidently throw the switch to "down" if the wrong words were spoken at someone's baptism.
Just trying to understand.
Oh my! I just had a thought. What if they gave the job to a Morman, on the day I arrive? :uhoh
You sincerely are out there in left field. None of us will be pulling switches with trap doors to damnation. We will, however, be judged out of the books and I'm confident those 66 books tell us how to be saved... and I walk accordingly.
Those Books we call the Bible will be the ultimate judge of our 'rightness' or 'wrongness'. How can anyone insert their 'opinion' contrary to God's Word and feel safe?
Steadfast
03-23-2007, 01:45 PM
Sir ... can someone be saved ... prior to completeing THE 3 SEQUENTIAL STEPS ... let's say because their life is cut short? This has been our perennial question .... hasn't it???
Daniel, I like you. You're somewhat of a thinker. You're also evading the question: we're not talking about 'life cut short'. Surely Patterson's wasnt'! You and I both know that we're talking about, as I said earlier, walking with God and that takes time.
Forget cut short (for it isn't cutting the question short) and answer the question: Can someone be saved outside of obedience to Acts 2:38?
:nah
Daniel, I like you. You're somewhat of a thinker. You're also evading the question: we're not talking about 'life cut short'. Surely Patterson's wasnt'! You and I both know that we're talking about, as I said earlier, walking with God and that takes time.
Forget cut short (for it isn't cutting the question short) and answer the question: Can someone be saved outside of obedience to Acts 2:38?
:nah
Jesus said "if you love me .... obey my commandments" ... so the answer to your LEADING QUESTION is all of God's word is necessary for salvation but of course this is possible by grace, through faith .... A repentant sinner/believer will:
Love your neighbor
Repent
Judge not
be baptized in the name [authority and power] of Jesus Christ *
be good stewards
love thy enemy
etc, etc, etc.
as for
the New Birth, or regeneration, it is 'from above' {Greek translation}... it does not happen by obeying some sacrament to 'activate' grace .....
Furthermore, the baptism of the Holy Ghost is empowerment from God.
I'll leave God to do the saving AND JUDGING... while preaching the whole counsel of the Word.
Your question, Elder, is like .... saying can anyone be saved outside of ....
Matt 22:36-40
36 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?"
37 Jesus said to him," 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.'
or any other commandment????
Steadfast
03-23-2007, 02:01 PM
Jesus said "if you love me .... obey my commandments" ... so the answer to your LEADING QUESTION is all of God's word is necessary for salvation but of course this is possible by grace, through faith .... A repentant sinner/believer will:
Love your neighbor
Repent
Judge not
be baptized in the name [authority and power] of Jesus Christ *
be good stewards
love thy enemy
etc, etc, etc.
as for
the New Birth, or regeneration is 'from above' {Greek translation}... it does not happen by obeying some sacrament to 'activate' grace .....
The baptism of the Holy Ghost is empowerment from God.
I'll leave God to do the saving ... while preaching the whole counsel of the Word.
Congratulations! That is the most well verbulated articulation given as an attempt to not really say anything that I've probably read in my whole life!
I notice that you don't say 'yes' or 'no'. I understand that you really can't and keep your present position intact.
ILUVHIM
03-23-2007, 02:04 PM
2 Pet. 2.1-17
3 ¶ Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
5 ¶ I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, Ex. 12.51 afterward destroyed them that believed not. Num. 14.29, 30
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
7 Even as Sodom and Gomor'rah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Gen. 19.1-24
8 ¶ Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.
9 Yet Michael the archangel, Dan. 10.13, 21 ; 12.1 · Rev. 12.7 when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, Deut. 34.6 durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. Zech. 3.2
10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.
11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, Gen. 4.3-8 and ran greedily after the error of Ba'laam for reward, Num. 22.1-35 and perished in the gainsaying of Korah. Num. 16.1-35
12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;
13 raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.
14 ¶ And Enoch Gen. 5.21-24 also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
15 to execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.
But why are there soooooooooooo many COGIC churches (most of them storefront) in Buffalo?
that is COGIC for you! There's a joke that COGIC has 6 million members, with 3 million churches with 2 members in each one.
There are a couple of Big COGIC churches in your area.
"Prince Of Peace Tabernacle COGIC" . I remember their choir recorded an abulm years back with a famous artist (can't remmber the name). there is also a Very large and Prominant COGIC in your area but i cannot think of the name of it right now- they have a nice sanctuary.
Rumor has it that they may televise the funeral of GE Patterson on either TBN or word network ? don't know for sure but that's what's flying around.
also did you hear that ABC Did a special last night on speaking in tongues?
I wonder if they put it down, mocked it or what ? anyone know?
Congratulations! That is the most well verbulated articulation given as an attempt to not really say anything that I've probably read in my whole life!
I notice that you don't say 'yes' or 'no'. I understand that you really can't and keep your present position intact.
My present position, Elder, is the Whole Word ... yours is part ... and misinterpreted at that ... JMO.
2 Pet. 2.1-17
3 ¶ Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
5 ¶ I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, Ex. 12.51 afterward destroyed them that believed not. Num. 14.29, 30
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
7 Even as Sodom and Gomor'rah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Gen. 19.1-24
8 ¶ Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.
9 Yet Michael the archangel, Dan. 10.13, 21 ; 12.1 · Rev. 12.7 when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, Deut. 34.6 durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. Zech. 3.2
10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.
11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, Gen. 4.3-8 and ran greedily after the error of Ba'laam for reward, Num. 22.1-35 and perished in the gainsaying of Korah. Num. 16.1-35
12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;
13 raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.
14 ¶ And Enoch Gen. 5.21-24 also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
15 to execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.
The Swordsman's Replacement???? Aren't there union rules against scabs???
Steve Epley
03-23-2007, 06:53 PM
Congratulations! That is the most well verbulated articulation given as an attempt to not really say anything that I've probably read in my whole life!
I notice that you don't say 'yes' or 'no'. I understand that you really can't and keep your present position intact.
Yep!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Only way he could say less is talk more.:tiphat
Yep!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Only way he could say less is talk more.:tiphat
Still waiting on that scripture ... Elder.
Old Paths
03-23-2007, 07:58 PM
It would seem the way some present it, that the God of the Old Testament is NOT the God of the New Testament.
The OT is full of prophets declaring the judgments of God on unbelieving heathens. God would send fire or the sword of Israel to kill young and old. WHY? Simply because they had the misfortune of not being born in Israel and worshiped another God other than the God of Israel. The God that had declared that he was ONE (Deut. 6:4).
And along comes the NT and God evidently according to the libs, changes his mind.
It doesn't matter if you believe in a multiplicity of gods. It doesn't really matter if you believe that God is a made up of multiple persons. Follow the mother of harlots in her propagating of the false trinity. God doesn't care. God doesn't expect you to really search the Scripture about the Godhead. Just be Happy! Love everyone. Kiss all the babies and God will let you into his kingdom.
Above everything DO NOT teach there is just one way to be saved (Acts 2:38) because that is for the ignorant, narrow minded and just too harsh.
TIC
Besides it offends liberals and trinitarian sympathizers.
slave4him
03-23-2007, 08:04 PM
WELL...YABO SHUNDAI...teach Epely the one that says "Judge NOT lest YE be Judged"
Lets start our little discussion there...shall we.
Rewrite from post #79
Love how people allways like to quote that and don't read any further.
Matthew 7
1Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
Old Paths
03-23-2007, 08:34 PM
Rewrite from post #79
Love how people allways like to quote that and don't read any further.
Matthew 7
1Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
You goooooooooooooo!
:tiphat
stmatthew
03-23-2007, 08:53 PM
Daniel, I like you. You're somewhat of a thinker. You're also evading the question: we're not talking about 'life cut short'. Surely Patterson's wasnt'! You and I both know that we're talking about, as I said earlier, walking with God and that takes time.
Forget cut short (for it isn't cutting the question short) and answer the question: Can someone be saved outside of obedience to Acts 2:38?
:nah
No.
Old Paths
03-23-2007, 08:54 PM
No.
GREAT Response.
:D
stmatthew
03-23-2007, 08:56 PM
GREAT Response.
:D
hahaha! Maybe I should have put more thought into it.......... no, the answer is still NO.
:tiphat
Steve Epley
03-23-2007, 08:58 PM
No.
Except when they die THEN death makes everyone right. Bundy-Hitler-the Pope were all made saints at death without obeying anything.:tiphat
stmatthew
03-23-2007, 09:02 PM
Except when they die THEN death makes everyone right. Bundy-Hitler-the Pope were all made saints at death without obeying anything.:tiphat
Makes for an easy gospel message. Just die........and your saved!:
It would sure cut down on some of them looooooong sermons that are preached. toofunny
Steve Epley
03-23-2007, 09:08 PM
Was Pope Paul saved when he died????????? He was against abortion and did good deeds and was looking our way?:tiphat He could quote Acts 2:38 in Latin.
stmatthew
03-23-2007, 09:10 PM
Was Pope Paul saved when he died????????? He was against abortion and did good deeds and was looking our way?:tiphat
Close enough!!! Let him in!!
Steve Epley
03-23-2007, 09:11 PM
Close enough!!! Let him in!!
I heard him speak in tongues also I didn't understand a word he said. The man could indeed hoop.:happydance :happydance
You guys are having way too much fun ... can I join ?????
I love the jump through hoops Gospel ... some espouse. Let's make it virtually impossible to be saved and if you think you are then there's got be something you're hiding or not doing ...
Can someone be saved outside of obeying ???
Ephesians 6:4
4Fathers, do not exasperate your children; instead, bring them up in the training and instruction of the Lord.
or
Matthew 7:1, "Judge not that ye be not judged."
or
James 2
8If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, "Love your neighbor as yourself,"[a] you are doing right. 9But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers. 10For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. 11For he who said, "Do not commit adultery," also said, "Do not murder."[c] If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.
12Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, 13because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment!
Faith and Deeds
14What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
[B]Is not all of God's Word necessary for our salvation??
A great Apostolic once said:
I have a little problem with more faith being put in a specific verse that in the Saviour who's life inspired the need for the verse.
Reciting Acts 2:38 is not a magical incantation that removes all sin.
Acts 2:38 is NOT the gospel message.
Acts 2:38 is not THE saving message.
The saving message is laced throughout the synoptic gospels.
It is the message of Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection.
What HE did is what saves the world. Acts 2:38 is merely the proper response to his saving action.
It is fitting, and proper, that we place due prominence on the Saviour.
WHEN this happens, in the heart of every new believer, love for the God of the Gospel message will cause a truly repentant sinner to be baptized in Jesus' name. Subsequently, the promise of the Holy Ghost awaits every new believer.
Steve Epley
03-23-2007, 09:19 PM
You guys are having way too much fun ... can I join ?????
I love the jump through hoops Gospel ... some espouse. Let's make it virtually impossible to be saved and if you think you are then there's got be something you're hiding or not doing ...
Can someone be saved outside of obeying ???
Ephesians 6:4
4Fathers, do not exasperate your children; instead, bring them up in the training and instruction of the Lord.
or
Matthew 7:1, "Judge not that ye be not judged."
or
James 2
8If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, "Love your neighbor as yourself,"[a] you are doing right. 9But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers. 10For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. 11For he who said, "Do not commit adultery," also said, "Do not murder."[c] If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.
12Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, 13because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment!
Faith and Deeds
14What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
[B]Is not all of God's Word necessary for our salvation??
A great Apostolic once said:
I find your post judgmental God understands if we refuse to obey what he has said it is no big deal. Except ye repent ye shall all likewise perish however God knows you intended to repent so no biggie. Jesus is Santa Claus naughty or not you will NOT get a bundle of switches.:tiphat Quoting scripture could be seen as being judgmental so please refrain lest the weak be discouraged how will we win them quoting the Bible?????? Try Schuller or Osteen now there are two non-judgmental folks.:friend :friend
stmatthew
03-23-2007, 09:22 PM
You guys are having way too much fun ... can I join ?????
I love the jump through hoops Gospel ... some espouse. Let's make it virtually impossible to be saved and if you think you are then there's got be something you're hiding or not doing ...
Can someone be saved outside of obeying ???
Ephesians 6:4
4Fathers, do not exasperate your children; instead, bring them up in the training and instruction of the Lord.
or
Matthew 7:1, "Judge not that ye be not judged."
or
James 2
8If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, "Love your neighbor as yourself,"[a] you are doing right. 9But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers. 10For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. 11For he who said, "Do not commit adultery," also said, "Do not murder."[c] If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.
12Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, 13because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment!
Faith and Deeds
14What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
[B]Is not all of God's Word necessary for our salvation??
A great Apostolic once said:
I have a little problem with more faith being put in a specific verse that in the Saviour who's life inspired the need for the verse.
Reciting Acts 2:38 is not a magical incantation that removes all sin.
Acts 2:38 is NOT the gospel message.
Acts 2:38 is not THE saving message.
The saving message is laced throughout the synoptic gospels.
It is the message of Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection.
What HE did is what saves the world. Acts 2:38 is merely the proper response to his saving action.
It is fitting, and proper, that we place due prominence on the Saviour.
WHEN this happens, in the heart of every new believer, love for the God of the Gospel message will cause a truly repentant sinner to be baptized in Jesus' name. Subsequently, the promise of the Holy Ghost awaits every new believer.
Bro, without the proper response to the gospel, there will be no salvation, because the believer has accepted a response that is not biblical.
Its like attempting to drive from TN to FL, and using I-40 in that attempt. You will never arrive at your desired destination unless you go the right way.
Steve Epley
03-23-2007, 09:29 PM
Bro, without the proper response to the gospel, there will be no salvation, because the believer has accepted a response that is not biblical.
Its like attempting to drive from TN to FL, and using I-40 in that attempt. You will never arrive at your desired destination unless you go the right way.
You are wrong if they believe I-40 will take them to Miami then it will. Only the judgmental folks would dare say I-40 does not go to Miami. Some are so narrow minded and judgmental that say I-75 or I-95 are the correct hyways to Miami but if you believe in your heart I-40 is correct then to Miami you go.:aaa
You are wrong if they believe I-40 will take them to Miami then it will. Only the judgmental folks would dare say I-40 does not go to Miami. Some are so narrow minded and judgmental that say I-75 or I-95 are the correct hyways to Miami but if you believe in your heart I-40 is correct then to Miami you go.:aaa
Remind .. me ... Elder ... when we're in heaven ... to recount this thread to the good Bishop ... if only to shoot the breeze and remember old times. :friend
stmatthew
03-23-2007, 09:31 PM
You are wrong if they believe I-40 will take them to Miami then it will. Only the judgmental folks would dare say I-40 does not go to Miami. Some are so narrow minded and judgmental that say I-75 or I-95 are the correct hyways to Miami but if you believe in your heart I-40 is correct then to Miami you go.:aaa
:slaphappy Elder, you are having waaaaay too much fun!!
Steve Epley
03-23-2007, 09:33 PM
Remind .. me ... Elder ... when we're in heaven ... to recount this thread to the good Bishop ... if only to shoot the breeze and remember old times. :friend
I am sure the Pope will enjoy the story also.:happydance :happydance We will have a great time.:happydance :happydance
stmatthew
03-23-2007, 09:33 PM
Remind .. me ... Elder ... when we're in heaven ... to recount this thread to the good Bishop ... if only to shoot the breeze and remember old times. :friend
So its ok if you "judge" the Bishop as saved, but not ok if other "judge" him as not saved?
I am sure the Pope will enjoy the story also.:happydance :happydance We will have a great time.:happydance :happydance
As you were .... I'll let you Apostolics carry on ....
Steve Epley
03-23-2007, 09:35 PM
So its ok if you "judge" the Bishop as saved, but not ok if other "judge" him as not saved?
Nope he died thus he is saved you are unlearned death saves all!!!!
Pope Paul is hearing his confession right at this moment.:tiphat
Whole Hearted
03-23-2007, 09:36 PM
Be that as it may, you have still tip toed around the questions asked long before your statements were imposed: Can ANYBODY be saved outside of obedience to Acts 2:38?
Again, I've made it clear that that is just the entrance level of salvation and not a 'cure all' that means nothing else matters. Anybody with any maturity knows that.
I still say that, according to scripture, one MUST obey the New Birth to be saved. And, as another stated, you can't promote a false doctrine and be saved. That is a huge chasm in the whole process of being 'Apostolic' while leading false doctrine without an attempt to bring truth to them.
I cannot, even in all of scripture, understand being Apostolic myself and then promoting a false doctrine without paying an eternal price.
Amen Brother preach on.
slave4him
03-23-2007, 09:37 PM
Sir ... can someone be saved ... prior to completeing THE 3 SEQUENTIAL STEPS ... let's say because their life is cut short? This has been our perennial question .... hasn't it???
NO
James 4:17
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
1 Peter 3:21
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
Colossians 3:17
And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
Steve Epley
03-23-2007, 09:40 PM
NO
James 4:17
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
1 Peter 3:21
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
Colossians 3:17
And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
What about Anna Nicole??????????????????????????????
http://respiracreative.com/cops.jpg
I'm looking forward ... to the premiere, gentlemen.
Steve Epley
03-23-2007, 09:47 PM
http://respiracreative.com/cops.jpg
I'm looking forward ... to the premiere, gentlemen.
Sounds like a judgmental program to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am going to listen to Prairie Home Companion where love and peace abounds.:friend :friend
Steadfast
03-23-2007, 11:05 PM
So its ok if you "judge" the Bishop as saved, but not ok if other "judge" him as not saved?
Wow, now THAT is a thought! I think it's very telling that nobody has said, "You don't have to obey Acts 2:38 to be saved". Now, instead, they say things like, "What about obeying [add any scripture you may wish to add] to be saved". Obviously they know that obedience to all scripture is necessary but they ALSO know :neener that we're talking about getting into the Kingdom of God and walking with Him.
:nah Very telling indeed.
RunningOnFaith
03-30-2007, 02:35 PM
I am NOT saying the good Bishop never recieved the Holy Ghost but if he did he certainly did not follow it. The Holy Ghost would lead a preacher to stand and preach for truth. And after a long ministry and still failing to preach truth?
Sorry I don't believe it. And NO it takes MORE than HGB to put you in the body these folks in Corinth had been water baptized in Jesus Name. The focus here is giving everyone their right place in the body through HGB he is not discussing the plan of salvation rather the position and work in the local body. NO ONE is in the church without baptism in Jesus Name.:tiphat
My main thought on these comments is to emphasize that God is above His sacramental means of grace. God can give the graces of the sacraments apart from the acts themselves. I find it unhelpful to insist that God "cannot" save some because they did not share my view of scripture or were not able to get to the waters of baptism whenever (a) I am not their final judge and (b) they are now in the hands of God anyway. Of course, while we have the opportunity, we should insist on baptism, etc., but once one has died, they are now out of our realm of influence and therefore we trust in God's mercy and justice.
Nero34
01-30-2012, 05:32 PM
Does any one have concrete info on Bishop C.H.Mason being baptized in Jesus Name?
houston
01-30-2012, 05:34 PM
Does any one have concrete info on Bishop C.H.Mason being baptized in Jesus Name?
Cesar!!!!
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