Apostolic Feminists

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear
I don't think any Godly lady would want to take authority over a man...

Dat's whut ahm talkin' bout!

Men rule, women drool.







j/k

[Rhoni]

The out sliders looking in, will assume that Apostolics are Male supremest.

A prophetess is a Feminine form of prophet.

The Apostolics have created a demeaning role for women.

Women due respect and worth are denied.


hummmmmmmmmmm...I almost agree. :aaa

[originalsecretplace]

Dat's whut ahm talkin' bout!

Men rule, women drool.







j/k


Tent peg candidate!!!!!

:winkgrin

[Esther]

Tent peg candidate!!!!!

:winkgrin

Oh now that was funny :slaphappy

[Sister Alvear]

There is a difference in TAKING authority and being given authority...think on this for a while ...at least until I go hear my Friend Sister Pastor Sarah Jackson preach...She up in about 5 minutes...

[Esther]

Have you ever noticed we can have pages after pages of people discussing cut or uncut hair and the magic power that the uncut gives women. Of course the doctrine has been taught strongly for years..

But... look at this scripture, it is pretty plain... so what are we doing.. picking and choosing what is culture and what is not?

1 Cor 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

No, I am not against a woman speaking in a church... doesn't anyone else see the inconsistancies?

btw, I don't care for the way this woman is going about speaking/preaching.. she is trying to emulate a man... that disturbs me.

I think you either take that scripture literally and women do not speak in church period, which I think we know it doesn't mean that. Or understand what was happening and WHY it was given.

Most know that women did not attend the assembly before Jesus opened that door to them. They didn't understand what was happening and was yelling across the assembly, "Hey, Joe, what is he doing now?", (paraphased)

That is why he said for them to learn at home from their own husbands.

It never meant in this scripture that a women could not teach, speak, sing, or anything else.

If we want to go down the road of picking and choosing, then why do women sing? Why do they teach sunday school? That requires speaking.

[Esther]

There is a difference in TAKING authority and being given authority...think on this for a while ...at least until I go hear my Friend Sister Pastor Sarah Jackson preach...She up in about 5 minutes...

Amen!

Bro. T. F. Tenny, teaches that as well.

[COOPER]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Epley
Was Paul inspired to write it???????????????????

He said "I" As in "Him" PAUL. Was every thing he wrote under an Insperation of thus sayeth the Lord??

And HE wrote letters.
Every passing word or though of Paul was not God.

Apostolics use his writings as a doctrine to put down women.

Women were looked upon differntly back then.

1 Timothy 2
1I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;

2For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.

3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

6Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

7Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.

8I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.

9In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

10But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.

11Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

12But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 15Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Paul or one of the writers; had written about slaves and submitting to masters, do we teach its ok to have a slaves?


God did not say, "Now Paul Write these things to The church!"

[Ferd]

did anyone get proof that Paula White is really a woman?

[Nahum]

did anyone get proof that Paula White is really a woman?

How would we do that?

[ForeverBlessed]

I think you either take that scripture literally and women do not speak in church period, which I think we know it doesn't mean that. Or understand what was happening and WHY it was given.

Most know that women did not attend the assembly before Jesus opened that door to them. They didn't understand what was happening and was yelling across the assembly, "Hey, Joe, what is he doing now?", (paraphased)

That is why he said for them to learn at home from their own husbands.

It never meant in this scripture that a women could not teach, speak, sing, or anything else.

If we want to go down the road of picking and choosing, then why do women sing? Why do they teach sunday school? That requires speaking.

I agree with you.

I also think that we need to read 1 Cor 11 (hair) and realize just how much was cultural there as well.

[Theophilus]

Out of the heart *and attitude* the mouth speaks. I don't like women making those kind of general putdown remarks. It's disrespectful for one thing. Untrue for another.

On the other hand, I don't like men making jokes about women that are putdowns either. :nah

Dittos.

For example, neither my wife nor I ever cared for the obligatory wife putdowns from the pulpits.

[Sister Alvear]

I agree...Pentecostal preachers in some circles I do not care to be around I feel almost dirty coming out of a service when they talk about women...I hear enough of that from the Branhamites in Brazil...
I think godly women look for MANLY men and not some "man" that runs his mouth in a holy pulpit...
People are so hungry for God in this hour...Just last night a doctor lady told me she was so hungry for God...She did not look like me, dress like me but sat weeping all during a powerful service...
We have the answer for the world and what it needs but it would seem we stay happy fussing among ourselves many times....I refuse to get caught up in endless debates...they are like endless shopping sprees...

[LaGirl]

Do you believe they exist?

My wife, who is very active in District Ladies ministry, tells me that more and more she sees women speakers who's mannerisms and demeanor seem to be quite masculine. They scream, pound the pulpit, line everybody out on standards and such.

Recently, I had a chance to watch a lady preacher from TBN. Her first name was Paula (I can't remember the last name). She exhibited what my wife told me she keeps seeing at some of our "ladies" conferences.

It was revolting. I can't stand to see male preachers who priss around like fairies, and I can't stand to see women preachers/speakers who stomp around like lumberjacks.
Does feminism have a place in the Apostolic movement?

i have to agree with ya

[Sister Alvear]

While it is true that Deborah rode with the men...it is also true that God commanded cursing upon those that did NOT HELP DEBORAH...

[Sister Alvear]

Just got a revelation for a sermon: "The blessing of riding with Deborah"...ha....

[Sister Alvear]

Or maybe the title of another sermon: When the woman says, "Thus saith the Lord.." Think I will use Hulah on that one... ha....

[Sister Alvear]

OR maybe....when a woman saved an entire race....Esther would be the Bible reading....

[Sister Alvear]

How many nights are revivals these days???? Maybe I could hold a revival...That's 3 texts already....
Let me see how about this one: When God sends Moses, Aaron and Miram?
That makes four....how many nights should the revival be???

[Sister Alvear]

Oh yes that favorite scripture that says, sin entered the world by one man... that will preach...........ha....
Well, friends I am only being funny...However if you need any help I could help you get a title while I am in this mindset of titles...lol

[Newman]

ROFLOL Sister Alvear- You are awesome! :tiphat

[Sister Alvear]

My husband said I could preach on, " when redemption does not redeem" boy that sounds deeeeeeeeeeeeeeep...................

[Sister Alvear]

Oh Newman...can I come preach you a revival???????? I promise not to preach about magic hair...
I will get me a sermon that will probably make some of these men preachers want to be a woman preacher...they will be sooooooo convinced.....

[Felicity]

While it is true that Deborah rode with the men...it is also true that God commanded cursing upon those that did NOT HELP DEBORAH...WOW! ;) :)

[Ferd]

:nahnah How would we do that?

[Barb]

Mother A is on a roll!!:clap

[Scott Hutchinson]

I've been blessed by a woman,I mean blessed out just ask my wife.

[Sister Alvear]

Just having a little fun between services here at this conference...Sure love you all....

[Scott Hutchinson]

I'd love to hear that Deborah message while I don't believe in women Bishops I can listen to a woman minister the word.

[Theophilus]

janice jostrand (however it is spelled), is an amazing messanger that God has available.

she and her husband get it from God and give it liberally to any couple that can receive Godly counsels.

Surely you jest. What she's given is from Janice, and though I'm sure it's given liberally to any couple that will receive it, it's not of God. That's painfully apparent in this cross section of her ministry.

Now then, I realize that she is capable of regurgitating the Bible and doctrines and whatnot. She even has the ability to imitate that whole classic ‘preacher’ routine as well as anyone, but even the late Sam Kinison was able to pull off that stunt during his comedy routines.

Shouting into a mic and 'preaching' doesn't make you 'of God' no matter how much scripture you cite, no matter how loud, no matter how inaudible, and no matter how many people follow you around in support.

The truth is that this world is full of preachers that are of themselves, many of which, I'm sure, think that they do God service. This dying world recognizes this and needs another one like they need another lawyer. (no offense Newman)

What this world is in need of, the church included, are real preachers of God to get down to business and leave the new wisdoms and old clichés of this world were they belong and go with God soully.

[Newman]

Surely you jest. What she's given is from Janice, and though I'm sure it's given liberally to any couple that will receive it, it's not of God. That's painfully apparent in this cross section of her ministry.

Now then, I realize that she is capable of regurgitating the Bible and doctrines and whatnot. She even has the ability to imitate that whole classic ‘preacher’ routine as well as anyone, but even the late Sam Kinison was able to pull off that stunt during his comedy routines.

Shouting into a mic and 'preaching' doesn't make you 'of God' no matter how much scripture you cite, no matter how loud, no matter how inaudible, and no matter how many people follow you around in support.

The truth is that this world is full of preachers that are of themselves, many of which, I'm sure, think that they do God service. This dying world recognizes this and needs another one like they need another lawyer. (no offense Newman)

What this world is in need of, the church included, are real preachers of God to get down to business and leave the new wisdoms and old clichés of this world were they belong and go with God soully.

WOW... I would tremble to speak of a minister of God/ baptized in Jesus name and filled with the Holy Ghost with such contempt.

Are you so positive that God only annoints those to minister that fit into your thinking? I sure am not convinced of that.

I urge EXTREME caution for anyone that would point to a particular Jesus name/ Holy Ghost filled minister that is not known to be living in sin; and say they are not of God (and perhaps reaching someone that one would never be able to reach otherwise). :cool:

[Sister Alvear]

I do not know who you all are talking about but we must be very careful what we say...even about people we do not understand...Life is full of ups and downs and we never know sometimes the person we run down is the person that gives a hand when we are down...

All souls are mine sayeth the Lord....

[HeavenlyOne]

Was Paul inspired to write it???????????????????

Paul thought it was better that men and women not marry, but God doesn't agree with that.

[Fonix]

Janice Sjostrand is one awesome singer and keyboard player. I have heard her speak a few times, one in particular. I have nver experienced the Holy Ghost anymore stronger than I did on that Saturday morning back in the 90's.

She is a little rough talking for my likes but still I would certainly not say she isnt of God at all simply because her speaking is not my style. Its a dangerous thing to put down men or women of God that dont fit into our own box.

[Coonskinner]

I have many things to say unto you, but ye are not able to bear them.:)

[COOPER]

Paul thought it was better that men and women not marry, but God doesn't agree with that.
:slaphappy :happydance

[Coonskinner]

Coop, I had a dream about you last night.

[triumphant1]

I do not know who you all are talking about but we must be very careful what we say...even about people we do not understand...Life is full of ups and downs and we never know sometimes the person we run down is the person that gives a hand when we are down...

All souls are mine sayeth the Lord....

Amen!

It's one thing to say, "She's not my style." It's quite another to say, "She's not of God at all."

Although I do not like the particular delivery--I can't even watch Paula White so this isn't a 'don't like Apostolic women' statement--because I prefer women to act like women and men to act like men, I would not want to stand in judgement of her walk with God.

I do not know her so how could I pass that judgement on the basis of a short clip...CAN'T.

[Rhoni]

Amen!

It's one thing to say, "She's not my style." It's quite another to say, "She's not of God at all."

Although I do not like the particular delivery--I can't even watch Paula White so this isn't a 'don't like Apostolic women' statement--because I prefer women to act like women and men to act like men, I would not want to stand in judgement of her walk with God.

I do not know her so how could I pass that judgement on the basis of a short clip...CAN'T.

Amen to you and Sis. Alvear.:friend

Blessings, Rhoni

[COOPER]

Coop, I had a dream about you last night.

Is this a Joke?

Do you think it was from God?

[Coonskinner]

Is this a Joke?

Do you think it was from God?

No joke.

I did dream about you.

In the dream, there was a battlefield raging.

Guns were going off, bombs were exploding, it was horrendous.

You were gtting in your car with your family to go get closer to it, because you thought it would be exciting.

I was trying to talk you out of it, because of the danger involved for you folks.

I'm not claiming divine origin or anything, just mentioning it.

I did not go to bed thinking about you in any way.

Anyhow, that was it.

[COOPER]

No joke.

I did dream about you.

In the dream, there was a battlefield raging.

Guns were going off, bombs were exploding, it was horrendous.

You were gtting in your car with your family to go get closer to it, because you thought it would be exciting.

I was trying to talk you out of it, because of the danger involved for you folks.

I'm not claiming divine origin or anything, just mentioning it.

I did not go to bed thinking about you in any way.

Anyhow, that was it.
Thanks, I will keep this in mind.

[Sister Alvear]

We ALL incluing me must be very careful what we say about others...The recording angel writes down all we say and it is by our words we are judged...I do not even know Paula White or don't remember the name...
I personally LOVE to hear Brother Stoneking preach and have heard people say things about him...It makes me shutter...to think how many loose tongues we have in our circles...
Men judge the OUTWARD God sees way beyond the outward and that is what is scary....He sees our spirit.
If you don't understand somebody UNLESS you really know be very careful what you say... Mother Alvear

[Digging4Truth]

Janice Sjostrand is one awesome singer and keyboard player. I have heard her speak a few times,

I have heard her say... "Men are stupid"

[Sister Alvear]

Well, she should not say that at all. My husband is one of the kindest men you could ever meet and he is a long ways from stupid...speaks bunches of languages, sings like an angel...no men are not stupid. Some men may be stupid like some women may be stupid but that statement is unbecoming. May I say here that some women because people have said HARD things against them have taken the wrong route sometimes in anger and sometimes in hurt they have come off with statements that are not becoming to ladies...


I am trying to think if I know Paula White, one time years ago I spoke at a ladies conference and a Sister White was one of the speakers but I cannot remember if it was Paula White.

I do have a friend she comes off "kinda" strong but she is a precious God loving person...and as I write she is up in an area where I doubt if a Jesus Name man has ever been...maybe her "crude" ways (the term some use) is why God has sent her where she is. I confess I could not do what she is doing...
Until we have done more that the brother or sister we have an urge to talk about we had really better think about it...
So many people have told me about those old women that traveled taking the gospel to THIS country...and a lot of men confess it or not got the Holy Ghost under a woman...
If I don't believe in something I pray that God gives me wisdom to know how to handle it.
Pray about what you let lodge in your heart...

[triumphant1]

I have heard her say... "Men are stupid"

She said it to the young girls on one of the other youtube clips....she was talkng about women having physical power over men and that man are stupid, she then bulged her eyes and kindof stuck out her tongue like a man google eyeing woman nad being in lust....

BUT, this does not make her anti-anointed or Godless. Every one who gets up to speak/preach/teach has some fo pure God words and some pure self words IMO.

Even Paul wrote at one point that he was saying this and not the Holy Ghost...In other words, he recognized that what he was saying was the truth as he saw it in that circumstance and this was his OPINION and not given to him by divine revelation...JJ's OPINION that men are stupid is just that and she shared it while speaking...

The Holy Ghost didn't say that...she did...but to say that her whole message is discounted because she in her own communication style said something that may not seem very appropiate is just not right...IMHO.

All preachers lapse in and out of their own opinion while preaching...the key is for them to recognize it when they do it...and to not go around and pretend that it was a divine word when it was not...

[triumphant1]

Well, she should not say that at all. My husband is one of the kindest men you could ever meet and he is a long ways from stupid...speaks bunches of languages, sings like an angel...no men are not stupid. Some men may be stupid like some women may be stupid but that statement is unbecoming. May I say here that some women because people have said HARD things against them have taken the wrong route sometimes in anger and sometimes in hurt they have come off with statements that are not becoming to ladies...


I am trying to think if I know Paula White, one time years ago I spoke at a ladies conference and a Sister White was one of the speakers but I cannot remember if it was Paula White.
I do have a friend she comes off "kinda" strong but she is a precious God loving person...and as I write she is up in an area where I doubt if a Jesus Name man has ever been...maybe her "crude" ways (the term some use) is why God has sent her where she is. I confess I could not do what she is doing...
Until we have done more that the brother or sister we have an urge to talk about we had really better think about it...
So many people have told me about those old women that traveled taking the gospel to THIS country...and a lot of men confess it or not got the Holy Ghost under a woman...
If I don't believe in something I pray that God gives me wisdom to know how to handle it.
Pray about what you let lodge in your heart...

The Paula White I have referred to is not from the Apostolic persuation. She and her husband pastor a Charismatic church in Florida. She kindof came up under the likes of TD Jakes. She has never been among oneness Aposolics that I know of...she does appear often on TBN though...

[MissBrattified]

She said it to the young girls on one of the other youtube clips....she was talkng about women having physical power over men and that man are stupid, she then bulged her eyes and kindof stuck out her tongue like a man google eyeing woman nad being in lust....

BUT, this does not make her anti-anointed or Godless. Every one who gets up to speak/preach/teach has some fo pure God words and some pure self words IMO.

Even Paul wrote at one point that he was saying this and not the Holy Ghost...In other words, he recognized that what he was saying was the truth as he saw it in that circumstance and this was his OPINION and not given to him by divine revelation...JJ's OPINION that men are stupid is just that and she shared it while speaking...

The Holy Ghost didn't say that...she did...but to say that her whole message is discounted because she in her own communication style said something that may not seem very appropiate is just not right...IMHO.

All preachers lapse in and out of their own opinion while preaching...the key is for them to recognize it when they do it...and to not go around and pretend that it was a divine word when it was not...

You're right; good post. We're not always at our best, are we? I would hate for someone to judge my entire ability as a music director based on one practice or one church service.

I'm being a bit deliberately obtuse in reference to her video, because the one statement was so obnoxious. I agree, though, that that doesn't mean she isn't an anointed speaker or a good teacher.

I do think you'd be less supportive, however, if it were a man speaking at a men's conference, who made the statement that "Women are stupid." :aaa

[triumphant1]

You're right; good post. We're not always at our best, are we? I would hate for someone to judge my entire ability as a music director based on one practice or one church service.

I'm being a bit deliberately obtuse in reference to her video, because the one statement was so obnoxious. I agree, though, that that doesn't mean she isn't an anointed speaker or a good teacher.

I do think you'd be less supportive, however, if it were a man speaking at a men's conference, who made the statement that "Women are stupid." :aaa

THis is very possible...but I have heard many, many male preachers make comments that left me thinking, "I would not have said that" and I did keep the principle I stated in mind. Don't throw out the meat just because he offered a bone or two...eat the meat and throw away the bones.

A speaker needs to use personal analogies in order to communicate the message.

We must never forget that every sermon is a mixture of the word of God, the Spirit of God, and the one who is doing the talking....and the one doing the talking needs to be the first one who gets that!

[MissBrattified]

THis is very possible...but I have heard many, many male preachers make comments that left me thinking, "I would not have said that" and I did keep the principle I stated in mind. Don't throw out the meat just because he offered a bone or two...eat the meat and throw away the bones.

A speaker needs to use personal analogies in order to communicate the message.

We must never forget that every sermon is a mixture of the word of God, the Spirit of God, and the one who is doing the talking....and the one doing the talking needs to be the first one who gets that!

I'm sure you're quite right!! :coffee2

[Esther]

WOW... I would tremble to speak of a minister of God/ baptized in Jesus name and filled with the Holy Ghost with such contempt.

Are you so positive that God only annoints those to minister that fit into your thinking? I sure am not convinced of that.

I urge EXTREME caution for anyone that would point to a particular Jesus name/ Holy Ghost filled minister that is not known to be living in sin; and say they are not of God (and perhaps reaching someone that one would never be able to reach otherwise). :cool:

Well said.

[Sister Alvear]

I actually heard this statment, " Women who think they are called to preach are queers" I sat there thinking of all the great ladies I know...Sister LaJoyce Martim, Siater A.O. Holmes, Sister Lavada George, Sister Freeman, and on and on...ladies of the past such as Sister Rita Dawson, Sister Mary Williams...no my friend all women that work or have worked in God's harvest are NOT queers or whatever you want to call them...Many of them as they walk through heaven's gate angles will rejoice...
Oh...yes I know a few cases but think of the men that have been caught with other men...or even molesting children...that would not mean that God at some time did call or not call them...
People are human...
Even if you do not believe in women in pulpit ministry there is no reason to say such degrading remarks...let your words be few for you could just speak without even intending to against God's anointed...and then what???????
I may not believe in certain things but I am careful to speak against their calling...
Yes, I am a lady and have gleaned in His vineyards but no I am not ordained by man's hands and have never felt that I needed to be for He called me to be a missionary...

[Esther]

I actually heard this statment, " Women who think they are called to preach are queers" I sat there thinking of all the great ladies I know...Sister LaJoyce Martim, Siater A.O. Holmes, Sister Lavada George, Sister Freeman, and on and on...ladies of the past such as Sister Rita Dawson, Sister Mary Williams...no my friend all women that work or have worked in God's harvest are NOT queers or whatever you want to call them...Many of them as they walk through heaven's gate angles will rejoice...
Oh...yes I know a few cases but think of the men that have been caught with other men...or even molesting children...that would not mean that God at some time did call or not call them...
People are human...
Even if you do not believe in women in pulpit ministry there is no reason to say such degrading remarks...let your words be few for you could just speak without even intending to against God's anointed...and then what???????
I may not believe in certain things but I am careful to speak against their calling...
Yes, I am a lady and have gleaned in His vineyards but no I am not ordained by man's hands and have never felt that I needed to be for He called me to be a missionary...

Words of wisdom as usual, Sis. Alvera you are a peach of a lady. :)

[Theophilus]

WOW... I would tremble to speak of a minister of God/ baptized in Jesus name and filled with the Holy Ghost with such contempt.

Are you so positive that God only annoints those to minister that fit into your thinking? I sure am not convinced of that.

I urge EXTREME caution for anyone that would point to a particular Jesus name/ Holy Ghost filled minister that is not known to be living in sin; and say they are not of God (and perhaps reaching someone that one would never be able to reach otherwise). :cool:

It was the lawyer comment...wasn't it?

Did you bother to view her clips? She was most definitely in her flesh.

Has she ever been used of God? Perhaps, so has Kay Arthur for that matter and in the same respect: regurgitation...of the Word, respective Doctrines, and the wisdom and clichés of this present world. Doing such doesn't pass for being of God. In that case, every "Christian" can receive such credit to some degree. Sadly, many do, to their own destruction and that of those that follow them.

This basic premise is a general one that I would, after viewing the evidence, assign to Janice without hesitation, but to her credit she didn't invent it, she's simply following the suit of some. The culprit might very well be explained to the simple as arrogance and self-reliance of some in the Ministry. (i.e. the flesh)


Are you so positive that God only anoints those to minister that fit into your thinking? I sure am not convinced of that.

Absolutely not. However, I am so positive that God ONLY anoints those that minister to fit His thinking and purpose. That being said, when one that is believed to be "anointed" gives us Exhibit A,B, & C contrary to, that which is of God, and His Word, then you know that the flesh is in play.

Let us not mistake entertainments, contemporary wisdoms, and custom interpretations for anointing. One of these elements are rare, the rest in too much abundance, and yes...unfortunately...even in Pentecost.

Keep in mind, having had the New Birth Experience doesn't give 'diplomatic' immunity, not in this world, nor the world to come. Neither does it an anointed minister make.

(and perhaps reaching someone that one would never be able to reach otherwise)

What is she reaching them with? Maybe she will appeal to a certain demographic that is likeminded, but what is she reaching them with? What is she teaching? What impression is she responsible for putting upon her demographic that is not of God, yet appealing to the demographic?

Newman, In order to truly reach out to, grab hold of, and truly help save anyone to Christ, it must be with Christ alone, His Way. Else, what are we reaching them with in vain?

Consider the above quote carefully, honestly think about it. What is it really saying? I have to ponder: How foolish have we become to believe and assert that someone, or some group, cannot be reached but by a certain custom way or person(s)?

For example, we do not need feminists to reach feminists, the same as we don't need homosexuals to reach homosexuals. If they cannot be reached with His Way by the people of The Way(singular) then they will be lost. The message is not to custom conform to the lost, to the contrary, it is the lost that needs to be conformed to the Message and the Message Giver who is Christ.

If women are to be truly used of God, it will be done in a Godly way and according to their purpose and function within the Body, not contrary to His Word.

Janice has given us a glimpse of what is not of God. With all due respect, the evidence is on the table, counselor. You all can circle the wagons and like her as much as you want. That is admirable, but it doesn't change the truth, nor diminish the evidence given straight from the source.

I'll resign to my original post on the matter and let the evidence speak for itself. God Bless, Theo.

[Newman]

It was the lawyer comment...wasn't it?

Did you bother to view her clips? She was most definitely in her flesh.

Has she ever been used of God? Perhaps, so has Kay Arthur for that matter and in the same respect: regurgitation...of the Word, respective Doctrines, and the wisdom and clichés of this present world. Doing such doesn't pass for being of God. In that case, every "Christian" can receive such credit to some degree. Sadly, many do, to their own destruction and that of those that follow them.

This basic premise is a general one that I would, after viewing the evidence, assign to Janice without hesitation, but to her credit she didn't invent it, she's simply following the suit of some. The culprit might very well be explained to the simple as arrogance and self-reliance of some in the Ministry. (i.e. the flesh)

Absolutely not. However, I am so positive that God ONLY anoints those that minister to fit His thinking and purpose. That being said, when one that is believed to be "anointed" gives us Exhibit A,B, & C contrary to, that which is of God, and His Word, then you know that the flesh is in play.

Let us not mistake entertainments, contemporary wisdoms, and custom interpretations for anointing. One of these elements are rare, the rest in too much abundance, and yes...unfortunately...even in Pentecost.

Keep in mind, having had the New Birth Experience doesn't give 'diplomatic' immunity, not in this world, nor the world to come. Neither does it an anointed minister make.

What is she reaching them with? Maybe she will appeal to a certain demographic that is likeminded, but what is she reaching them with? What is she teaching? What impression is she responsible for putting upon her demographic that is not of God, yet appealing to the demographic?

Newman, In order to truly reach out to, grab hold of, and truly help save anyone to Christ, it must be with Christ alone, His Way. Else, what are we reaching them with in vain?

Consider the above quote carefully, honestly think about it. What is it really saying? I have to ponder: How foolish have we become to believe and assert that someone, or some group, cannot be reached but by a certain custom way or person(s)?

For example, we do not need feminists to reach feminists, the same as we don't need homosexuals to reach homosexuals. If they cannot be reached with His Way by the people of The Way(singular) then they will be lost. The message is not to custom conform to the lost, to the contrary, it is the lost that needs to be conformed to the Message and the Message Giver who is Christ.

If women are to be truly used of God, it will be done in a Godly way and according to their purpose and function within the Body, not contrary to His Word.

Janice has given us a glimpse of what is not of God. With all due respect, the evidence is on the table, counselor. You all can circle the wagons and like her as much as you want. That is admirable, but it doesn't change the truth, nor diminish the evidence given straight from the source.

I'll resign to my original post on the matter and let the evidence speak for itself. God Bless, Theo.

Theo- My point wasn't that a certain demographic reaches a certain demographic; but rather a certain personality can get a point across to some individuals that someone else might not be able to.

We can't say that there is only one or two ways to teach or preach. And even the most awful preacher in the world who puts everyone else to sleep might be just the right messenger for little Johnie sitting in the pew who then goes on to evangalize the world.

One may not like a woman's style when delivering what she feels God has given her; but God may nevertheless use her to reach someone that otherwise wouldn't have been reached.

I haven't seen exhibits A and C. And I wouldn't mind carefully talking about points one disagrees with or conduct that they find very unappealing.

However, I am not going to condemn a particular individual and say they are not of God based on my disagreement with their viewpoint and/or delivery when they are out ministering in our churches.

As if those used by God in Scripture didn't have their detracters:

Moses had a foreign wife, oratory and a sibling issues...

Paul had a past and a thorn in the flesh even as he preached deliverance to others...

Peter had impulsive tendencies and wasn't known for his education....

John the Baptist didn't know how to dress and didn't appear to have God's protection...

Mark was a quitter...

Timothy was a half breed...

Esther was Jewish but it wasn't even known...

James insisted on the old paths....

Paul insisted on the new paths...

Etc. etc. etc....

None were perfect with perfect pedigrees and reputations. But God filled the void. Who is to say whom God can use and who is or is not of God? :grampa "Therefore, judge nothing before its time, until the Lord come..." (1 Cor 4:5).

[Coonskinner]

Theo- My point wasn't that a certain demographic reaches a certain demographic; but rather a certain personality can get a point across to some individuals that someone else might not be able to.

We can't say that there is only one or two ways to teach or preach. And even the most awful preacher in the world who puts everyone else to sleep might be just the right messenger for little Johnie sitting in the pew who then goes on to evangalize the world.

One may not like a woman's style when delivering what she feels God has given her; but God may nevertheless use her to reach someone that otherwise wouldn't have been reached.

I haven't seen exhibits A and C. And I wouldn't mind carefully talking about points one disagrees with or conduct that they find very unappealing.

However, I am not going to condemn a particular individual and say they are not of God based on my disagreement with their viewpoint and/or delivery when they are out ministering in our churches.

As if those used by God in Scripture didn't have their detracters:

Moses had a foreign wife, oratory and a sibling issues...

Paul had a past and a thorn in the flesh even as he preached deliverance to others...

Peter had impulsive tendencies and wasn't known for his education....

John the Baptist didn't know how to dress and didn't appear to have God's protection...

Mark was a quitter...

Timothy was a half breed...

Esther was Jewish but it wasn't even known...

James insisted on the old paths....

Paul insisted on the new paths...

Etc. etc. etc....

None were perfect with perfect pedigrees and reputations. But God filled the void. Who is to say whom God can use and who is or is not of God? :grampa "Therefore, judge nothing before its time, until the Lord come..." (1 Cor 4:5).


But none of these characters blatantly violated the clear teaching of Scripture, and none of them aligned themselves with an ungodly ideology like feminism.

[Sister Alvear]

Hosea was quite a person and from the natural point of veiw I really do not think he would recieve too many invitations to preach at most Pentecostal churches especially going around telling GOD told him to do all those "things" he did...
Ez. would have shocked us all naked...
Noah got drunk...
Lot committed incest...
David had a man killed...to cover his sin...

I wonder what color their cards were? Maybe they were those independents...
Abraham he sure had some serious problems...Doubt if he would have made it to conference...

My dear friends we are ALL sinful by nature and if there is any good thing about us it is only by the GRACE of God...

I remember in an airport in Germany there was a Muslim lady all in black, veil and all and all I could see was her eyes...I really felt uneasy for some reason...Sometimes I have often thought how we are like her...It is so easy to pull our robes around us and stare at the world through our veil...and I wonder how many people feel ill at ease around us?

Some of the attitudes the world sees in us are unbecoming to christians...

Who are we to judge another man's servant? God will judge us all....and I am not taking up for sin but I am saying just because someone does not see everything like we do does not mean that person is of the devil.

Someone offered me since I have been home some old tapes of a well known preacher that once firmly taught a very false doctrine. I declined. Any one of us could be wrong on many subjects and no matter how strongly we feel about certain things we still are human and we still could be wrong.

I did not go to the clips or do I know the persons that have been discussed but I refuse to think evil. I will pray for them.

Please, weigh your words...Innocent souls have been destroyed because of careless and selfish preachers...

[Sister Alvear]

and I am not saying those that write here are careless or selfish...I am just using an example of things I do know in other situations.

[Newman]

But none of these characters blatantly violated the clear teaching of Scripture, and none of them aligned themselves with an ungodly ideology like feminism.

Coonskinner-

1. What clear teaching of Scripture is being violated? I know of at least two women teachers/preachers that have been behind your pulpit (despite not labeling it as such).

2. Can you show me where the feminism ideology is expressed that you speak of? Or define it so I understand for sure where you are coming from? :cool:

[Coonskinner]

Coonskinner-

1. What clear teaching of Scripture is being violated? I know of at least two women teachers/preachers that have been behind your pulpit (despite not labeling it as such).

2. Can you show me where the feminism ideology is expressed that you speak of? Or define it so I understand for sure where you are coming from? :cool:

I don't believe in women pastors, but I do use an occasional lady preacher.

I am talking abouty that "men are stupid" stuff, and other things that i really don't care to openly talk about on the forum.

I need to bow out since there is a name involved here.

Sorry...but I have reasons for my opinion on this particular deal.

I am not against women preachers; I just don't care for overbearing, domineering, man-bashers.

[Hesetmefree238]

Do you believe they exist?

My wife, who is very active in District Ladies ministry, tells me that more and more she sees women speakers who's mannerisms and demeanor seem to be quite masculine. They scream, pound the pulpit, line everybody out on standards and such.

Recently, I had a chance to watch a lady preacher from TBN. Her first name was Paula (I can't remember the last name). She exhibited what my wife told me she keeps seeing at some of our "ladies" conferences.

It was revolting. I can't stand to see male preachers who priss around like fairies, and I can't stand to see women preachers/speakers who stomp around like lumberjacks.

Does feminism have a place in the Apostolic movement?


I agree with you and my wife does to. I am not against women speakers/preachers, but I do not like to hear or watch one who acts
masculine.

[Sister Alvear]

I don't believe as stated men are stupid...but just because someone says that would not change my overall opinion on the subject.
I willl drop in something for all to consider...
I know lots of preachers that turned against women when they started associating with those that do not...That is called changing because of peer pressure...and then when one of them uses a certain woman the others use her as a "speeker"...
I know I am often called a speeker...that is fine with me because I personally never heard God call me to preach He called me to be a missionary. I don't even like to get up before a crowd so I am fine. But at the same time we should respect each other, pray for each other. I personally have no desire to lead if I did I could be anything in our work I wanted to me for I enjoy the love and respect of our people and our ministers but I rejoice to see them "doing it".
I think what must be discussed more is how to keep our spirits right when we are around those that differ.
I don't like pushy loud women but a lot of them are NOT women preachers.

If God in His plan has put a woman somewhere and you don't understand it...pray for her.
And believe me godly women are not standing in line to be ordained and trying to get attention...they are NOT trying to run the show and sit with the men on the platform...Godly women even in battle ride their horses gracefully and swing their swords (if needed) like a woman!
I know I live on the front lines of battle...and I am glad GOD MADE me a woman...I am thankful for my husband that is such a mighty leader and for my sons that work in the gospel...but I remember when I was just a young single girl on the mission field many years ago........I did what He bid and have been greatly rewarded.

[Sister Alvear]

I have closed my eyes when some men preached!

[Newman]

I don't believe in women pastors, but I do use an occasional lady preacher.

I am talking abouty that "men are stupid" stuff, and other things that i really don't care to openly talk about on the forum.

I need to bow out since there is a name involved here.

Sorry...but I have reasons for my opinion on this particular deal.

I am not against women preachers; I just don't care for overbearing, domineering, man-bashers.

Coonskinner- I do not know this individual and only had access to two short clips.

The "men are stupid" remark was addressed to 15 year old girls when speaking about how young men GENERALLY are swayed by beauty. And certainly most of us aren't going to deny that. How else could we explain the actions of Samson and Delilah or David and Bathsheeba?

Furthermore, I thought her point was that women needed to develop that which was lasting rather than rely on what was fleeting. I believe WWOD wrote an exceptional post on the very same issue at NFCF.

The idea that she seemed to be expressing is in keeping with the woman of Proverbs where we learn that beauty is vain but a woman that fears the Lord shall be praised.

Like you; I don't like talking about a particualr individual and in fact I obviously have no real basis to do so. I respect your decision to bow out of the conversation. I shall do likewise. :tiphat

[Felicity]

Just some quick points here........


I don't think most women marry intending to rely on beauty or brains or bodies to retain the interest of their husbands. Maybe I'm the odd one out here but it never occurred to me then nor has it occurred to me since.


Just how are women to 'develop' themselves anyhow?


I think this whole teaching can lead to paranoia on the part of young women.


I think that most women 'develop' over time due to life experience.


I think a woman is basically what she is and men need to take that into consideration when they marry.


What about men? Perhaps men need to 'develop' themselves as well?


I think we naturally improve and 'develop' with age in the ways that count.


Many women become even more lovely as they age.


There's something faulty with this whole line of thinking far as I'm concerned and I feel it represents some of the worst feminism has to offer.


I think that putting some of these ideas into the heads of young girls is putting unnecessary pressure on them and could lead to worry and concern where there should be none.

[Truly Blessed]

Just some quick points here........


I don't think most women marry intending to rely on beauty or brains or bodies to retain the interest of their husbands. Maybe I'm the odd one out here but it never occurred to me then nor has it occurred to me since.


Just how are women to 'develop' themselves anyhow?


I think this whole teaching can lead to paranoia on the part of young women.


I think that most women 'develop' over time due to life experience.


I think a woman is basically what she is and men need to take that into consideration when they marry.


What about men? Perhaps men need to 'develop' themselves as well?


I think we naturally improve and 'develop' with age in the ways that count.


Many women become even more lovely as they age.


There's something faulty with this whole line of thinking far as I'm concerned and I feel it represents some of the worst feminism has to offer.


I think that putting some of these ideas into the heads of young girls is putting unnecessary pressure on them and could lead to worry and concern where there should be none.
Just wondering, If you take away a woman's beauty, body and brains, what do you have left? :winkgrin

[Barb]

Just wondering, If you take away a woman's beauty, body and brains, what do you have left? :winkgrin

Oooh, are you in trouble...:aaa

[Newman]

Just some quick points here........


I don't think most women marry intending to rely on beauty or brains or bodies to retain the interest of their husbands. Maybe I'm the odd one out here but it never occurred to me then nor has it occurred to me since.

Who was speaking of marriaige? You have never seen a woman attempt to manipulate a man with her feminine charm? I assure you it happens. ;)


Just how are women to 'develop' themselves anyhow?

By learning first and foremost to fear God; which is the beginning of wisdom.


I think this whole teaching can lead to paranoia on the part of young women.

Paranoia? How so? Better for them not to realize that their husbands could possibly be susceptible to less than honorable women?


I think that most women 'develop' over time due to life experience.

Let's hope so!


I think a woman is basically what she is and men need to take that into consideration when they marry.

Absolutely.


What about men? Perhaps men need to 'develop' themselves as well?

Of course.


I think we naturally improve and 'develop' with age in the ways that count.

Depends. I think we become more of what we already are. That can be for the better or the worse. ;)


Many women become even more lovely as they age.

Certainly.


There's something faulty with this whole line of thinking far as I'm concerned and I feel it represents some of the worst feminism has to offer.

I think true feminist would be bothered by a women using her feminity to get what she wants.


I think that putting some of these ideas into the heads of young girls is putting unnecessary pressure on them and could lead to worry and concern where there should be none.


I saw it as the opposite. I saw it as letting them know that the path of seduction/manipulation isn't going to lead anywhere; so they might as well start climbing the steeper path now.

[Felicity]

I saw it as the opposite. I saw it as letting them know that the path of seduction/manipulation isn't going to lead anywhere; so they might as well start climbing the steeper path now. Is that how you won your husband's heart?

[Felicity]

Oooh, are you in trouble...:aaaI have the next 20 min. on the way to work to 'communicate' with TB. Hehe. :)

[Felicity]

Just wondering, If you take away a woman's beauty, body and brains, what do you have left? :winkgrinThe question could be turned around. Hmmm? :friend

[Newman]

Is that how you won your husband's heart?

I was who I was and pretended to be nobody else. He pretty much liked the total package. ;)

[berkeley]

I was who I was and pretended to be nobody else. He pretty much liked the total package. ;)That's great! I hate when females act like someone else. They need to be themselves. What I'm trying to say is, don't become what you think the guy is looking for. If he wasn't interested in her in the first place, chances are he wouldn't give her the time of day.

Anyway.. Just my thoughts

[Felicity]

I was who I was and pretended to be nobody else. He pretty much liked the total package. ;)We were discussing this on the way to work this morning and we came to the same conclusion. I was who I was. He liked who I was and was attracted to me for the whole package deal. :thumbsup

[Barb]

I was who I was and pretended to be nobody else. He pretty much liked the total package. ;)

We were discussing this on the way to work this morning and we came to the same conclusion. I was who I was. He liked who I was and was attracted to me for the whole package deal. :thumbsup

Ahhh...that is so precious...:winkgrin

[Felicity]

I don't think most women marry intending to rely on beauty or brains or bodies to retain the interest of their husbands. Maybe I'm the odd one out here but it never occurred to me then nor has it occurred to me since.
Who was speaking of marriaige? You have never seen a woman attempt to manipulate a man with her feminine charm? I assure you it happens. I have indeed seen it. Some of us never needed to do such a thing. Where do these girls learn the art of 'manipulation' I wonder.

Perhaps I misunderstood. I thought JS's comments were in the context of marriage.

[Felicity]

Ahhh...that is so precious...:winkgrinLOL! And it's true. I never ever was a "boy chaser". I never needed to. What can I say? :D

I remember my mom talking to a friend one day when I was in my late teens telling her that I wasn't a boy chaser. It's the truth! :tiphat

[LadyRev]

Maybe like this short clip???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DLeBB-tQgs

Texas District Ladies Conference???

Oh good grief. So a woman isn't supposed to raise her voice, emphasize, get excited, etc.?

Thats all this clip demonstrates...nothing more.

Feminine mannerisms are defined according to the eye, ear and opinion of the beholder. Such definitions vary greatly from person to person.

[Sister Alvear]

I wonder how excited the woman were are they ran to tell the news that Christ arose?

[Sister Alvear]

Let me see...I wonder what voice Deborah used in the battle? When she JUDGED Israel wonder if the people had to turn up their hearing aids because she spoke so soft and low...
LOL...
I wish God had a million ladies that were not ashamed to proclaim that He is risen...instead of sitting in danty tea parties and shopping at Walmart...

[Sister Alvear]

The history of women in the Church has been paradoxical and a test of fellowship among some circles. I believe that makes Jesus weep.
It is obvious that if we take Deborah out of the Bible, Israel remains in bondage, if we take out Ester, Israel is killed, if we take out Huldah, Israel remains without someone to interpret the scroll. If we take out Mary we remain without a Savior, if we take out the women at the tomb no one knows He has risen. So at many key times God in his wisdom chooses to use women. Why? I just really don’t know. Maybe it is because of his sense of humor. Does not his own word say his ways are past finding out? On so many occasions when man has thought they have figured God out He shows up and does exactly opposite to our human thinking.

[Sister Alvear]

The plan of God was not just revealed to men but to women as well in the Old Testament. It was to Rebecca not to Isaac that God disclosed that Jacob was favored over Esau. It was not Barak whom God chose to judge Israel and to lead an army, but it was Deborah the notable prophetess.
There was even a time when Moses the great lawgiver was saved by an entire group of women. It was Esther that He chose to preserve a nation. It was to Samson’s mother not his father that the angel gave instructions. When the priest and scribe asked for a word from the Lord they came to Huldah. It was to her and not to her husband, nor to the prophet Jeremiah that the word of the Lord came. Abraham heard God say, "Listen to Sarah's voice. Romans 16:1-2 reads that Phoebe had labored with the Apostle. In Romans 16:3, Pricilla is called by Paul, my helper, fellow helper RV. Romans 16:12 Salute Trephine and Tryphosa, who labor in the Lord. Salute the beloved Persis, which labored much in the Lord. Trephine, and Tryphosa, women, and who labored much in the Lord.

[Sister Alvear]

I Corinthians 16:16, that ye submit yourselves unto such, and to every one that helpeth with us, and laboreth. (Be in subjection, RV) to everyone that helpeth with us and laboreth.

[Sister Alvear]

In Acts 18:26 and 2 Timothy 4:19, the apostle Paul gives Priscilla the honor of first mention. Note also his salutation in Romans 16:3. Greet Pricilla and Aquila, my helpers in Christ Jesus. When Pricilla and Aqua heard him, they took him and expounded to him the way of God more perfectly (Acts 18:26). It is highly significant that both Pricilla and Aquila are named as instructing and illuminating Apollos. There can be no question that here is a woman engaged in teaching ministry, and she is teaching a man. Not that it may be the rule but probably the exception of the rule however she WAS teaching.

[Felicity]

Oh good grief. So a woman isn't supposed to raise her voice, emphasize, get excited, etc.?

Thats all this clip demonstrates...nothing more.

Feminine mannerisms are defined according to the eye, ear and opinion of the beholder. Such definitions vary greatly from person to person.I think it's okay for a voice to be raise, and emphasis and excitment is fine, but a lady is always expected to act like a lady and when the line is crossed it becoms unattractive.

[Sister Alvear]

Throughout the Bible there are evidences of women teaching and leading. Deborah as prophetess taught as well as led. Miriam was a leader. Paul spoke of women co-laborers, deacons and gospel workers. Certainly they taught. Their offices and titles show proof that certain women were used in the gifts of the spirit (I Corinthians 11:5; Acts 21:9)...”Teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord” (Colossians 3:16). Did you notice singing is also a teaching ministry? O consistency thou art a jewel!

[Newman]

I think it's okay for a voice to be raise, and emphasis and excitment is fine, but a lady is always expected to act like a lady and when the line is crossed it becoms unattractive.

What I saw in the video clip was a woman who was among women; that were worshipping God. Her voice was loud as it needed to be; if it were to be heard anymore since some prayer was already going on.

Given the fervent prayer one suspects that there must have been something said of value to someone there that day.

[Felicity]

What I saw in the video clip was a woman who was among women; that were worshipping God. Her voice was loud as it needed to be; if it were to be heard anymore since some prayer was already going on.

Given the fervent prayer one suspects that there must have been something said of value to someone there that day. :cool:I watched the clip. There were things of value said. I don't think anybody is disputing this?

[Newman]

And as an aside, there is nothing very lady like giving birth but of necesity life happens. :igotit

[Sister Alvear]

headed to church....see you my friends...

[Barb]

I could only see a few seconds of the clip because I have dialup...it keeps buffering too badly to view it.

However, I can say that everyone to their opinion...a raised voice in the heat of anointing is one thing, but I am not a fan of screaming in the pulpit, regardless of whether it is a man or woman...JMHO...:tiphat

[Felicity]

I've heard many women speak and preach and share their burden. Some of them have been HUGELY impacting, but none of the women that I can think of who I've heard in person has ever acted in a masculine unbecoming manner. I can think of so many women from Vesta Mangun to Evangeline Rodenbush, Thetus Tenney, Micky Mangun, Nona Freeman, women from my own district - so many - and none of them acted out of order or unbecoming. They didn't scream, stomp, or act masculine in any way

I DID watch the JS clip and I don't like all that I saw and certainly don't agree with everything I heard.

[Newman]

I've heard many women speak and preach and share their burden. Some of them have been HUGELY impacting, but none of the women that I can think of who I've heard in person has ever acted in a masculine unbecoming manner. I can think of so many women from Vesta Mangun to Evangeline Rodenbush, Thetus Tenney, Micky Mangun, Nona Freeman, women from my own district - so many - and none of them acted out of order or unbecoming. They didn't scream, stomp, or act masculine in any way

I DID watch the JS clip and I don't like all that I saw and certainly don't agree with everything I heard.

I have heard a couple of male ministers (in a lifetime) that I would prefer not to have heard. Uncouth comes to mind.

But there is no way I would get on the internet and say so. God's Word can flow from any vessel He chooses. Who am I to judge them (and publically to boot)?

Unless of course, I am the minister that has the choice of whom to invite to the pulpit and I recken that would be a private decision. :grampa

[Truly Blessed]

It seems to me that what is being said when one encourages women to "develop themselves" is that they should be self focused instead of being focused on building a relationship with their husband. It sounds like worldly philosophy to me.

If a man is marrying a woman for her body and beauty, he is not marrying her for love, but for lust. If that is the basis for the union, it won't last. It won't be long before he will be looking for another object for his lust. Unfortunately that sometimes leads one into pornography.

I would like to believe that although I was only 21 years old when I married, that I was not "stupid" as some women seem to think most men are, but rather that I was smart enough to recognize the amazing qualities of my bride to be and how her gifts would be such a great compliment to my life and ministry. It was a bonus that she was both beautiful and possessed a great body! :)

[Scott Hutchinson]

My wife does have a body, and beauty but I do love her.

[Scott Hutchinson]

TB,you need to go grocery shopping,eh.

[Newman]

It seems to me that what is being said when one encourages women to "develop themselves" is that they should be self focused instead of being focused on building a relationship with their husband. It sounds like worldly philosophy to me.



She was talking to 15 year old girls about what is going on here and now from what I could tell. Girls who don't develop beyond primping all the time (shallow) tend to attract men of similar calibre.

Girls who have confidence in themselves above and beyond their looks; tend to attract much better husbands. So the message seemed timely to me. :cool:

[Newman]

I would like to believe that although I was only 21 years old when I married, that I was not "stupid" as some women seem to think most men are, but rather that I was smart enough to recognize the amazing qualities of my bride to be and how her gifts would be such a great compliment to my life and ministry. It was a bonus that she was both beautiful and possessed a great body! :)

Talk is cheap. How many young men date fat women? Few and far between. ;)

[Rhoni]

It seems to me that what is being said when one encourages women to "develop themselves" is that they should be self focused instead of being focused on building a relationship with their husband. It sounds like worldly philosophy to me.

Although this may appear to you to be the truth, I have to disagree here. I find it difficult to believe that a man who loves his wife would limit her to supporting him, his ministries, and his activities without also encouraging her to do the same. The Bible teaches mutual submission and love and respect between spouses. To say that one is narcissistic when pursuing one's own goals and dreams to the sacrifice of her relationship to her spouse is a bit chauvenistic, not to mention narcisstic on the man's part don't you think?

If a man is marrying a woman for her body and beauty, he is not marrying her for love, but for lust. If that is the basis for the union, it won't last. It won't be long before he will be looking for another object for his lust. Unfortunately that sometimes leads one into pornography.

I'd have to agree here!

I would like to believe that although I was only 21 years old when I married, that I was not "stupid" as some women seem to think most men are, but rather that I was smart enough to recognize the amazing qualities of my bride to be and how her gifts would be such a great compliment to my life and ministry. It was a bonus that she was both beautiful and possessed a great body! :)

I may be wrong but I tend to think of you as one who is extremely intelligent and picked your wife on the basis of love, attraction, and are supportive of her developing the talents, skills, and ministries that you originally felt an asset to your ministry and your life.

One does not/should not have to choose between one's spouse and one's ministry. It is great when you can be supportive of each other and your ministries compliment each others.

Respectfully, Rhoni

[seguidordejesus]

I could only see a few seconds of the clip because I have dialup...it keeps buffering too badly to view it.

However, I can say that everyone to their opinion...a raised voice in the heat of anointing is one thing, but I am not a fan of screaming in the pulpit, regardless of whether it is a man or woman...JMHO...:tiphat

Barb, I have dialup, too. What I do to watch youtube is start the download, then hit pause on it. It'll continue to load, and I just do something else in the meantime, then I watch it when it's finished. Hope that helps.

[Felicity]

My wife does have a body, and beauty but I do love her.LOL. You love her in spite of her body and her beauty eh Scott? :toofunny

[freeatlast]

Young men are usally looking and attracted to someone that is "fit" not fat.

Shoot, even old rats like cheese too. :grampa

[Rhoni]

Talk is cheap. How many young men date fat women? Few and far between. ;)

I don't know...at JCM most chose the sweet, fat, and talented ones who could sing and play over the thin pretty ones with no musical talent. They called it...Marrying a sweet spirit back in the day;)!:slaphappy

[Scott Hutchinson]

LOL. You love her in spite of her body and her beauty eh Scott? :toofunny

She was other qualities as well, but good packaging helps.:slaphappy
Let's just say smoking hot brains.:friend

[Barb]

Barb, I have dialup, too. What I do to watch youtube is start the download, then hit pause on it. It'll continue to load, and I just do something else in the meantime, then I watch it when it's finished. Hope that helps.

Thank you...I'll give it a try...

[Falla39]

And as an aside, there is nothing very lady like giving birth but of necesity life happens. :igotit

Amen, Sis. Newman.

If women of God cannot be heard, who will travil in Zion! I have

yet to see a man have a baby! I do not mean that in a negative

way. God just didn't chose to give them the role of travailing in

birth. Maybe if more fathers would stay in the waiting room and

let the mothers travail freely, the baby(revival) would get here faster.

Women in travail can get that baby out because they relate to the labor

of childbirth. But could it be there are too many hinderances. Some men

are wonderful in the delivery room. They are compassinate. Their support

(prayer) is needed. But if you have a controling man in the home, I can

assure you, it will be a hinderance in the delivery room. If she is worried

about whether that man in her life at home is going to tell her she was

yelling too loudly or travailing too loud, he is a hindrance! When ladies get

together at a ladies conf., Etc. they get free. Some men do not like their

women getting too free in God. They might get in the Spirit and find out

the Son can set you free indeed!! A woman that loves God and knows her

place is only going to be a better wife, mother, grandmother, friend, and

saint of God!!! If some men only knew what God could do in their marriage,

home, church, in the world!! They would get out of the way and let God have

His way with His wife (church). I am not talking about getting wild and out

of order! If you think that is what I am speaking about, you are mistaken.

Maybe I am feeling my JUBILEE year coming up. Next year (08) will be 50

years since I received the Holy Ghost!! I have missed God, who hasn't,

but I have learned that we don't have to live in them. We can be forgiven

from them and go on! Someone said, "If you haven't made some mistakes

and fallen down, you haven't done anything". I believe Bro. Lee Stoneking

said that about 1994 at a BOTT Conf., in a message entitled, "Failures".

One of the most powerful sermons I have ever heard!!! We ALL, Church

of the Living God, need to humble ourselves under the Mighty Hand of God.

He will take care of the rest!!!

Well, let he who hath ears hear!! If THIS shoe doesn't fit you, please

don't pick it up and put it on! Nobody's talking to you!!:tiphat

Falla39

[ForeverBlessed]

Talk is cheap. How many young men date fat women? Few and far between. ;)

Not many older men date fat women either. :cool: age doesn't have much to do with it. They can be bald, and even overweight too.... nah, it doesn't matter... they want their women thin when they marry. They might tolerate the weight gain later in marriage, but that is because of their love for her.

[Felicity]

Talk is cheap. How many young men date fat women? Few and far between. ;)My husband was a cut above the rest and did use his head in choosing a mate for life knowing as he did he would be in ministry.

I also used my head. :tiphat

[Felicity]

My husband was a cut above the rest and did use his head in choosing a mate for life knowing as he did he would be in ministry.

I also used my head. :tiphatBut more than any of this, God's will was involved. We were both praying and seeking the will of God. God wants the best for us and He sure was kind to both of us. :cool:




:)

[Felicity]

I think what young girls should be encouraged to do is to seek God, to consecrate their lives to Him and seek God for HIs will in regard to a mate. That's the best advice of all.

[Barb]

I am a 'people watcher' by nature...this calling has caused me more than once to view some married folks, and wonder, "How in the world did they ever hook up?!"

I mean, they didn't look like they fit together at all...she was tall and he was short...his head looked too big for his body or whatever...you get the idea.

Yet they did fit in ways that couldn't be readily seen...God has His way of hooking folks up to perform His will and it goes beyond outward appearance.

Go figure...:winkgrin

[CupCake]

I am a 'people watcher' by nature...this calling has caused me more than once to view some married folks, and wonder, "How in the world did they ever hook up?!"

I mean, they didn't look like they fit together at all...she was tall and he was short...his head looked too big for his body or whatever...you get the idea.

Yet they did fit in ways that couldn't be readily seen...God has His way of hooking folks up to perform His will and it goes beyond outward appearance.

Go figure...:winkgrin

So true!

[HeavenlyOne]

My sister is overweight and has been most of her life. She once had two young men vieing for her love.....she choose one and remained best friends with the other.

Well, the one she chose turned out to be using her to quelch rumors among those who knew him that he was gay (and he was), and the other later dated and married another overweight woman (who coincidentally shares my sister's name) and they are happily married with two children.

My sister has never been married (she's 32) and is so sorry that she missed the boat she was offered so long ago. She hasn't dated anyone since.....and it's been about ten years ago.

[Truly Blessed]

Talk is cheap. How many young men date fat women? Few and far between. ;)What do you mean by "Talk is cheap"?

So you don't know any fat married women? I know many women who were fat when they got married. I will be performing a wedding on Easter Sunday for a woman who is fat.

[Felicity]

I think what young girls should be encouraged to do is to seek God, to consecrate their lives to Him and seek God for HIs will in regard to a mate. That's the best advice of all.*bump*

[berkeley]

What do you mean by "Talk is cheap"?

So you don't know any fat married women? I know many women who were fat when they got married. I will be performing a wedding on Easter Sunday for a woman who is fat.
:toofunny

[berkeley]

I'm fat. I don't know if I'd date a fat woman. I've always thought that the woman should be a few inches shorter, and weigh less than the man. Maybe that's too idealistic.

[Felicity]

Do you believe they exist?

My wife, who is very active in District Ladies ministry, tells me that more and more she sees women speakers who's mannerisms and demeanor seem to be quite masculine. They scream, pound the pulpit, line everybody out on standards and such.

Recently, I had a chance to watch a lady preacher from TBN. Her first name was Paula (I can't remember the last name). She exhibited what my wife told me she keeps seeing at some of our "ladies" conferences.

It was revolting. I can't stand to see male preachers who priss around like fairies, and I can't stand to see women preachers/speakers who stomp around like lumberjacks.

Does feminism have a place in the Apostolic movement?Getting back on topic overlooking hidden innuendo and putdowns (not you Pastor P) ....... to your original post and question........ :cool:

What's happening in the world sooner or later finds a resting place in the church so .... feminism in its negative connotation and effect is in the church. However I don't think that a certain style of speaking nor certain types of personality and how that's expressed behind a pulpit have to do so much with feminism. But certainly some of the messages coming across reek of something that sounds foreign to me and would no doubt to many of the women of this and previous generations.

Women can use intelligence "power" manipulatively (yep .... uh huh) as much as what they feel they lose in regard to physical attractiveness "power".

As for the style of some of these lady preachers, like everything else it's open for opinion. Some have no problem with it. Some do. :cool:

[Truly Blessed]

The bottom line is that it is not uncommon for men who are married to very attractive and bright women to end up having affairs with women who are not nearly as attractive nor as bright as their wives.

I do agree that teenage girls need to have someone come along and give them a reality check when it comes to buying into the ungodly fashions and trends of this world that are presented as what will make them popular and "hot" with the opposite sex.

In thinking back to some of my high school friends, I recall them coming to school on Monday and discussing the girls they had got in on with over the weekend. These were the girls who would have been considered "hot". However, one only needed to listen to the comments these guys made to know they didn't respect these girls. These certainly weren't the girls they ended up marrying!

[Rhoni]

The bottom line is that it is not uncommon for men who are married to very attractive and bright women to end up having affairs with women who are not nearly as attractive nor as bright as their wives.

Why do you think this is?

I do agree that teenage girls need to have someone come along and give them a reality check when it comes to buying into the ungodly fashions and trends of this world that are presented as what will make them popular and "hot" with the opposite sex.

I think that most Apostolic girls have good leadership in their churches as Pastor's wives, Sunday School teachers, and youth directors that are there to teach and train the young people what is modest and Godly apparrel.

In thinking back to some of my high school friends, I recall them coming to school on Monday and discussing the girls they had got in on with over the weekend. These were the girls who would have been considered "hot". However, one only needed to listen to the comments these guys made to know they didn't respect these girls. These certainly weren't the girls they ended up marrying!



Men don't marry women, boys don't marry girls that they sleep with/ have sex with before they are married...when will women/girls catch on to this very easy concept?


Good Post TB!

Blessings, Rhoni

[Rhoni]

Not many older men date fat women either. :cool: age doesn't have much to do with it. They can be bald, and even overweight too.... nah, it doesn't matter... they want their women thin when they marry. They might tolerate the weight gain later in marriage, but that is because of their love for her.

Foreverblessed..you are right about this. I think it quite hilarious the fat, bald, and over the hiill men who think that the deserve a young, thin, pretty woman...why would the women/girls even want to go out with the guy?:slaphappy

[Coonskinner]

The first part of a man that a woman notices is his backside--because that's where he keeps his wallet.

[Newman]

Getting back on topic overlooking hidden innuendo and putdowns (not you Pastor P) ....... to your original post and question........ :cool:

What's happening in the world sooner or later finds a resting place in the church so .... feminism in its negative connotation and effect is in the church. However I don't think that a certain style of speaking nor certain types of personality and how that's expressed behind a pulpit have to do so much with feminism. But certainly some of the messages coming across reek of something that sounds foreign to me and would no doubt to many of the women of this and previous generations.

Women can use intelligence "power" manipulatively (yep .... uh huh) as much as what they feel they lose in regard to physical attractiveness "power".

As for the style of some of these lady preachers, like everything else it's open for opinion. Some have no problem with it. Some do. :cool:

1. What hidden innuendo and put downs?

2. Where do you see feminism in the church?

3. What is a message that you have heard, that reeks (of something foreign) to you probably past generations?

4. Can you share a an example of "intelliegence power" manipulation? :cool:

[Felicity]

1. What hidden innuendo and put downs?

2. Where do you see feminism in the church?

3. What is a message that you have heard, that reeks (of something foreign) to you probably past generations?

4. Can you share a an example of "intelliegence power" manipulation? :cool:

I see feminism in the attitudes and behavior of some women, particularly younger women who have grown up under the influence of some of the mindsets of this generation.

This "two powers" message is foreign to me. :nah

Intelligence power manipulation .... I really can only imagine. But if young ladies are being taught that the first power is manipulative then surely the second power could be too.

"Talk is cheap" remark made to my husband. What did you mean by that anyway? My husband isn't usually referred to in that manner.

[Newman]

I see feminism in the attitudes and behavior of some women, particularly younger women who have grown up under the influence of some of the mindsets of this generation.

This "two powers" message is foreign to me. :nah

Intelligence power manipulation .... I really can only imagine. But if young ladies are being taught that the first power is manipulative then surely the second power could be too.

"Talk is cheap" remark made to my husband. What did you mean by that anyway? My husband isn't usually referred to in that manner.

In reverse order....

1. Please forgive the remark. It wasn't meant to be offensive.
It strikes me as funny when men say that looks is far down on the list of importance in a mate; but note that their wife has got it.

2. Hmm... WWOD posted just about the same thing in different words on a thread you were very active on. I don't remember you disagreeing then.

3. I noted something of interest in the brief video we saw. She pointed out that one can be outright defiant about doing something (which may be what you are referring to with this generation) but she also noted there are those who say ok but ignore what was asked of them. (In other words they come across as submissive but they are anything but). ;)

Actions speak louder than words. :cool:

[BeautifulFlower]

Do you believe they exist?

My wife, who is very active in District Ladies ministry, tells me that more and more she sees women speakers who's mannerisms and demeanor seem to be quite masculine. They scream, pound the pulpit, line everybody out on standards and such.

Recently, I had a chance to watch a lady preacher from TBN. Her first name was Paula (I can't remember the last name). She exhibited what my wife told me she keeps seeing at some of our "ladies" conferences.

It was revolting. I can't stand to see male preachers who priss around like fairies, and I can't stand to see women preachers/speakers who stomp around like lumberjacks.

Does feminism have a place in the Apostolic movement?


Just a thought.... don't you think that in some of these circumstances that it is the way the lady speaker is responding to the anointing she feels. Haven't you ever just felt so anointed and overtaken with the Holy Ghost that you feel like you're about to burst?

I agree that there are some ladies seem manly, I don't know if they think it gives them more authority with the congregation or what.......but I do think with some it's just how they're responding to the Holy Ghost.

[Felicity]

In reverse order....

1. Please forgive the remark. It wasn't meant to be offensive.
It strikes me as funny when men say that looks is far down on the list of importance in a mate; but note that their wife has got it.

2. Hmm... WWOD posted just about the same thing in different words on a thread you were very active on. I don't remember you disagreeing then.

3. I noted something of interest in the brief video we saw. She pointed out that one can be outright defiant about doing something (which may be what you are referring to with this generation) but she also noted there are those who say ok but ignore what was asked of them. (In other words they come across as submissive but they are anything but). ;)

Actions speak louder than words. :cool:Actually I did disagree then too. I don't buy into this "power" thing.

In regards to point 3. Yep - there are all kinds of people for sure.

[Felicity]

In reverse order....

1. Please forgive the remark. It wasn't meant to be offensive.
It strikes me as funny when men say that looks is far down on the list of importance in a mate; but note that their wife has got it. Hmmm.....I don't believe that he said it was far down the list. How many men or women are immune to good looks and personality. I don't think men are that dumb (unlike JS) that they don't take into consideration the character and pedigree of the woman they choose to marry. Perhaps some are that thoughtless, but most? I doubt it. It's part of the "whole package".

Like I said.........some of us actively and earnestly sought the will of God for our lives .... including the person we were to marry. Prayer and consecration and soldout-ness was a lifestyle. I know most of my friends were very serious about marrying the right man. It wasn't all about looks. Most of us are pretty average looking really. :cool:

[berkeley]

The first part of a man that a woman notices is his backside--because that's where he keeps his wallet.

was that TIC?

[Newman]

Hmmm.....I don't believe that he said it was far down the list. :cool:

Right! It wasn't even on the list. It was a bonus. ;)

[Felicity]

Right! It wasn't even on the list. It was a bonus. ;)That's the way he feels.

[rgcraig]

Does anyone have that link to JS where she said "men are stupid" - I'd like to listen to it again. I remember my first impression, just wanted to hear it again to see if that's how I still felt about it.

[Felicity]

Does anyone have that link to JS where she said "men are stupid" - I'd like to listen to it again. I remember my first impression, just wanted to hear it again to see if that's how I still felt about it.Post #140. (http://apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=56311&postcount=140)

She made it in regard to women manipulating men through their ability to be attractive. Good heavens. It's how God made women. We're attractive to the opposite sex. It's meant to be that way. And the attraction thing that goes on is inbuilt and the way God designed it. It's part of the whole male/female thing in regard to mating.

Perhaps we could go back to arranged marriages.

[rgcraig]

Post #140.

She made it in regard to women manipulating men through their ability to be attractive. Good heavens. It's how God made women. We're attractive to the opposite sex. It's meant to be that way. And the attraction thing that goes on is inbuilt and the way God designed it. It's part of the whole male/female thing in regard to mating.

Perhaps we could go back arranged marriages.

Thanks - I'll listen again, but I believe my first impression of what she was saying was that men become like jello when sex or the opposite sex is involved. They may not be stupid, but they do not always use the best judgment.

[Felicity]

Thanks - I'll listen again, but I believe my first impression of what she was saying was that men become like jello when sex or the opposite sex is involved. They may not be stupid, but they do not always use the best judgment.She used the word "stupid". And the facial expression that went along with it made it sound like that men can't think with their head/brains.

And then all the young girls giggled when she said it.

[Pressing-On]

She used the word "stupid". And the facial expression that went along with it made it sound like that men can't think with their head/brains.

And then all the young girls giggled when she said it.

:toofunny :toofunny They do?

[rgcraig]

She used the word "stupid". And the facial expression that went along with it made it sound like that men can't think with their head/brains.

And then all the young girls giggled when she said it.

I think she should have used another word instead of stupid, but everything she says is completely right on and girls need to hear it. She's not telling girls TO use their power, she's telling them it's empty to use that sexual power just for approval.

Boys at that age don't have the maturity and what she is saying is right on.

Do some here think she is preaching that girls need to use that power? I didn't get that from that at all.

[rgcraig]

She used the word "stupid". And the facial expression that went along with it made it sound like that men can't think with their head/brains.

And then all the young girls giggled when she said it.Well, to keep from being banned I won't respond to this, but I think we all know what we've heard.

[Pressing-On]

I think she should have used another word instead of stupid, but everything she says is completely right on and girls need to hear it. She's not telling girls TO use their power, she's telling them it's empty to use that sexual power just for approval.

Boys at that age don't have the maturity and what she is saying is right on.

Do some here think she is preaching that girls need to use that power? I didn't get that from that at all.

I didn't get that from it when I first heard it AND it's pretty ridiculous to even think, as we well know, that men don't think with another part of their anatomy before their brain.

That would be her point.

[Newman]

She used the word "stupid". And the facial expression that went along with it made it sound like that men can't think with their head/brains.

And then all the young girls giggled when she said it.

If it would have been a 12 year old class of girls, she might have said that boys had cooties. She got their attention and is teaching standards as a principle; in a way they will listen to!

She isn't talking about marriage. I doubt that she would say men were stupid if she were.

Overall, I think it pretty premature to condemn someone for a statement made out of context of the whole.

[rgcraig]

I didn't get that from it when I first heard it AND it's pretty ridiculous to even think, as we well know, that men don't think with another part of their anatomy before their brain.

That would be her point.

Exactly and I think girls need to hear that. I remember being taught in a youth class when I was about 13 that girls shouldn't put their hand on a guys leg while they are sitting in church.

I was CLUELESS......I thought that would show you cared, but didn't have a clue what it DID to a guy. Girls need to know this stuff and we can think all day long that they do and MANY, MANY do already know this stuff, but there are some that don't.

[Pressing-On]

Exactly and I think girls need to hear that. I remember being taught in a youth class when I was about 13 that girls shouldn't put their hand on a guys leg while they are sitting in church.

I was CLUELESS......I thought that would show you cared, but didn't have a clue what it DID to a guy. Girls need to know this stuff and we can think all day long that they do and MANY, MANY do already know this stuff, but there are some that don't.

Yes, they do need to hear it. Janice was using "stupid" in the way that we, as women, know that men can be - trade it for one moment of nothing. That is stupid.

[rgcraig]

Yes, they do need to hear it. Janice was using "stupid" in the way that we, as women, know that men can be - trade it for one moment of nothing. That is stupid.

That's the way I took it. Maybe if some other youth groups could hear this and "get it" there could be less provocative dressing and youth pregnancies.

And what she says about turning 45 and still using that "power" is sad, but there are so many cases of that too. Women that don't respect themselves and "use" their bodies to get what they think they want.

[Newman]

I think she should have used another word instead of stupid, but everything she says is completely right on and girls need to hear it. She's not telling girls TO use their power, she's telling them it's empty to use that sexual power just for approval.

Boys at that age don't have the maturity and what she is saying is right on.

Do some here think she is preaching that girls need to use that power? I didn't get that from that at all.

I got out of it what you did. And I thought it was a great and timely message for a fifteen year old girl to hear. :tiphat

[rgcraig]

I got out of it what you did. And I thought it was a great and timely message for a fifteen year old girl to hear. :tiphat

Absolutely!

[Felicity]

Well, to keep from being banned I won't respond to this, but I think we all know what we've heard.I don't know what you mean by this. :confused:

[rgcraig]

I don't know what you mean by this. :confused:

I'll PM you.

[Pressing-On]

That's the way I took it. Maybe if some other youth groups could hear this and "get it" there could be less provocative dressing and youth pregnancies.

And what she says about turning 45 and still using that "power" is sad, but there are so many cases of that too. Women that don't respect themselves and "use" their bodies to get what they think they want.
I'm sure it would help some, but you always have some that it won't. At least you can say you tried.

Right, but to some degree that flirtatious/manipulating power is still fun in a marriage. ;) I can't think it's all bad.

[Felicity]

I'll PM you.Ok.

[rgcraig]

I'm sure it would help some, but you always have some that it won't. At least you can say you tried.

Right, but to some degree that flirtatious power is still fun in a marriage. ;) I can't think it's all bad.

The key here is within a marriage!

JS needs to hold another session for the married ladies and tell them to use their fun side to keep things exciting in their marriages!

However, I don't like the word "power" used in this case - - I don't like muniplitive women or woman that use sex or their appeal to munipilate men (and men really never grow out of this stage - sex always makes them like jello).

[Pressing-On]

The key here is within a marriage!

JS needs to hold another session for the married ladies and tell them to use their fun side to keep things exciting in their marriages!

However, I don't like the word "power" used in this case - - I don't like muniplitive women or woman that use sex or their appeal to munipilate men (and men really never grow out of this stage - sex always makes them like jello).
LOL! Is your last paragraph referring to the unmarried?

[rgcraig]

LOL! Is your last paragraph referring to the unmarried?

It can apply to any really. I have a SIL (married) that uses her "power" to get what she wants and I just think it's down right wrong!!!!

[Pressing-On]

It can apply to any really. I have a SIL (married) that uses her "power" to get what she wants and I just think it's down right wrong!!!!

Gosh, Renda. It all depends on what you really want. lol Isn't that just an inbred thing in us - to some degree?

[Jekyll]

Gosh, Renda. It all depends on what you really want. lol Isn't that just an inbred thing in us - to some degree?

Okay, Renda, please keep an eye on this post if you think it is over the line...

Men do the same things when they do dinner, activities, give gifts, their time and money - over the course of an evening or longer time period - then complain if they don't get what they want. How does this differ from women using their "powers" to get what they want...

Isn't this a mild form of prostitution?? If not, where is the line drawn?

[rgcraig]

Gosh, Renda. It all depends on what you really want. lol Isn't that just an inbred thing in us - to some degree?

I believe it is, but I was taught different and never used it that way (maybe I should have - lol!) NOT!

[Pressing-On]

Okay, Renda, please keep an eye on this post if you think it is over the line...

Men do the same things when they do dinner, activities, give gifts, their time and money - over the course of an evening or longer time period - then complain if they don't get what they want. How does this differ from women using their "powers" to get what they want...

Isn't this a mild form of prostitution?? If not, where is the line drawn?

I've never asked for money - that's the difference. O.K., once, but I was joking!!! :toofunny

[Pressing-On]

I believe it is, but I was taught different and never used it that way (maybe I should have - lol!) NOT!

How can you be taught when it's just a part of you? It's just a natural reaction to things, I think. We play the game together. The one that lets you win isn't necessarily stupid. It just shows they wanted and enjoyed playing the game. :winkgrin


This thread feels somewhat similar to Hairspray. Hahahaha!

[rgcraig]

Okay, Renda, please keep an eye on this post if you think it is over the line...

Men do the same things when they do dinner, activities, give gifts, their time and money - over the course of an evening or longer time period - then complain if they don't get what they want. How does this differ from women using their "powers" to get what they want...

Isn't this a mild form of prostitution?? If not, where is the line drawn?

Jekyll, very good point and it is a delicate subject, but not sure one that shouldn't be discussed.

I completely agree - - the whole "oh, you look beautiful and I love you" lines that guys can use to get what they want. I completely agree!

So, maybe KJ (husband) was in the other room telling the boys, look guys you have power and girls are stupid - if you tell them they are beautiful and you love them they will have sex with you, so you don't need to use your power.

??????

[rgcraig]

How can you be taught when it's just a part of you? It's just a natural reaction to things, I think. We play the game together. The one that lets you win isn't necessarily stupid. It just shows they wanted and enjoyed playing the game. :winkgrin




This thread feels somewhat similar to Hairspray. Hahahaha!I understand what you are saying, I just choose to never use it for leverage.

[Pressing-On]

Jekyll, very good point and it is a delicate subject, but not sure one that shouldn't be discussed.

I completely agree - - the whole "oh, you look beautiful and I love you" lines that guys can use to get what they want. I completely agree!

So, maybe KJ (husband) was in the other room telling the boys, look guys you have power and girls are stupid - if you tell them they are beautiful and you love them they will have sex with you, so you don't need to use your power.

??????
Hahahahahahahahaha! He probably was!

[Pressing-On]

I understand what you are saying, I just choose to never use it for leverage.

Why not if you are both playing? After you're married long enough you know and you just play it.

[Jekyll]

Hahahahahahahahaha! He probably was!
No way, just like you said earlier it is innate in dudes...Both women and men need to be taught the finer points of romance and true love...the ungodly flesh in us wants something animal...maturity and training and the Holy Ghost helps us to take the proper and holy steps necessary to fulfill that need in the marital context

[rgcraig]

Why not if you are both playing? After you're married long enough you know and you just play it.

We have two different subjects going on here.

To address this one - I just don't agree with it. I think you play, you have fun, you flirt with your husband, but you should never use it (sex) to "get what you want" or "get your way."

Is that what you are saying?

[Pressing-On]

No way, just like you said earlier it is innate in dudes...Both women and men need to be taught the finer points of romance and true love...the ungodly flesh in us wants something animal...maturity and training and the Holy Ghost helps us to take the proper and holy steps necessary to fulfill that need in the marital context

Really? My husband isn't mature yet. :toofunny

Seriously, I think romance and true love are still included in the animal part - or rather - the unrefined. I think a women kind of likes that to linger a bit over time.

[rgcraig]

No way, just like you said earlier it is innate in dudes...Both women and men need to be taught the finer points of romance and true love...the ungodly flesh in us wants something animal...maturity and training and the Holy Ghost helps us to take the proper and holy steps necessary to fulfill that need in the marital contextThis is what we strive for.....

I think explaining things to the young people as JS has is very beneficial though, don't you?

[Pressing-On]

We have two different subjects going on here.

To address this one - I just don't agree with it. I think you play, you have fun, you flirt with your husband, but you should never use it (sex) to "get what you want" or "get your way."

Is that what you are saying?

No, I don't think you should offer sex to get what you want. It's cheap, but fun if you are playing like you are. If he's game, I'm game. That's what I mean.

[Felicity]

I guess I'm a little less sophisticated than some of you ladies here and don't have the cosmopolitan experience you all have had. I've led a fairly sheltered life. None of the women I've known have acted like this i.e. using their femininity to manipulate men (in a negative sense) into getting what they want.

I never saw this kind of behavior modeled by my mother or my sisters or my grandmother.

Never saw it modeled by my close friends -- either before marriage or after it. Neither I nor my close friends acted this way (intentional manipulation to draw some guy into relationship with us).

Haven't seen it modeled by most of the women I know in any kind of personal way. Like I said the women in my social circle which was the church circle didn't act that way. It was never even thought of by myself --- my mind certainly doesn't work that way. My husband would agree.

Our opinions are formed by our own realm of experience. Guess your realms of experience are outside of mine. :) All I knew was church, loving God and living for Him. And the friends I've hung with over the years were the same.

[HeavenlyOne]

There are some things I don't want mental pics of about my friends.

The above posts are along that line.......LOL!

:D

You girls are funny.

[Pressing-On]

There are some things I don't want mental pics of about my friends.

The above posts are along that line.......LOL!

:D

You girls are funny.
Read the words and don't visualize - that's the key! :winkgrin

[Pressing-On]

I guess I'm a little less sophisticated than some of you ladies here and don't have the cosmopolitan experience you all have had. I've led a fairly sheltered life. None of the women I've known have acted like this i.e. using their femininity to manipulate men (in a negative sense) into getting what they want.

I never saw this kind of behavior modeled by my mother or my sisters or my grandmother.

Never saw it modeled by my close friends -- either before marriage or after it. Neither I nor my close friends acted this way (intentional manipulation to draw some guy into relationship with us).

Haven't seen it modeled by most of the women I know in any kind of personal way. Like I said the women in my social circle which was the church circle didn't act that way. It was never even thought of by myself --- my mind certainly doesn't work that way. My husband would agree.

Our opinions are formed by our own realm of experience. Guess your realms of experience are outside of mine. :) All I knew was church, loving God and living for Him. And the friends I've hung with over the years were the same.
I saw my mother flirt - tremendously - with my father and him back. They were so cute!

You are right - our opinions are formed by our own realm of experience.

If you need any tips - PM me. J/K!!!!! :toofunny :toofunny

[Jekyll]

This is what we strive for.....

I think explaining things to the young people as JS has is very beneficial though, don't you?
That's why I included training in the post above...too many sincere young folks just don't get it and have a different view of God's requirements in their zest to please Him...then are either dorky or rebellious because they don't realize the time and effort that is needed for a good relationship

[Felicity]

I just asked my husband if I've ever used sex to manipulate him. He says not that he knows of. :)

The fact is I heard teaching in this regard by our DS as a young married woman. He made the point that women should never use sex as a bargaining tool or as a weapon of any sort to get their way.

I remember when he spoke about this thinking ........ "Women do this? But how could they? It's wrong!" LOL.

[Felicity]

I saw my mother flirt - tremendously - with my father and him back. They were so cute!

You are right - our opinions are formed by our own realm of experience.

If you need any tips - PM me. J/K!!!!! :toofunny :toofunnyThanks! I think I'm okay without your tips. :D

[rgcraig]

There are some things I don't want mental pics of about my friends.

The above posts are along that line.......LOL!

:D

You girls are funny.

Have you ever sat in church (not during worship of course) and looked at couples and thought....oh, I just can't imagine!!!!!!!

[ReformedDave]

I just asked my husband if I've ever used sex to manipulate him. He says not that he knows of. :)



I asked my wife the same question and she said "Sex?" !:friend

[Jekyll]

I guess I'm a little less sophisticated than some of you ladies here and don't have the cosmopolitan experience you all have had. I've led a fairly sheltered life. None of the women I've known have acted like this i.e. using their femininity to manipulate men (in a negative sense) into getting what they want.

I never saw this kind of behavior modeled by my mother or my sisters or my grandmother.

Never saw it modeled by my close friends -- either before marriage or after it. Neither I nor my close friends acted this way (intentional manipulation to draw some guy into relationship with us).

Haven't seen it modeled by most of the women I know in any kind of personal way. Like I said the women in my social circle which was the church circle didn't act that way. It was never even thought of by myself --- my mind certainly doesn't work that way. My husband would agree.

Our opinions are formed by our own realm of experience. Guess your realms of experience are outside of mine. :) All I knew was church, loving God and living for Him. And the friends I've hung with over the years were the same.
I've seen it both ways and because I respect women...

I'd want (and do have btw) a wife of the qualities spoken about here

[Pressing-On]

Thanks! I think I'm okay without your tips. :D

:toofunny :toofunny You know I'm just kidding.

[Jekyll]

I asked my wife the same question and she said "Sex?" !:friend
:slaphappy

[rgcraig]

That's why I included training in the post above...too many sincere young folks just don't get it and have a different view of God's requirements in their zest to please Him...then are either dorky or rebellious because they don't realize the time and effort that is needed for a good relationship

I couldn't agree with you more! Maybe I have found my ministry - - I could talk to young people....think they'd listen to an old lady?

[Pressing-On]

:slaphappy

I kinda skipped that post. :toofunny

[Pressing-On]

I couldn't agree with you more! Maybe I have found my ministry - - I could talk to young people....think they'd listen to an old lady?

No.

:toofunny

[rgcraig]

I asked my wife the same question and she said "Sex?" !:friend

:slaphappy :toofunny :slaphappy

[Sherri]

Wow! What have I missed here today? Who is JS anyway? I'm surprised this thread has gotten this far without someone banning it just for good measure.:winkgrin

[Felicity]

Thinking about this a few minutes ago and I can't recall ever in 33 years of ministry and many more of being in church that I have ever heard one woman address this "two powers" thing.

I have never heard any of the speakers I've listened to over the years and I've heard ....... goodness! How many?!! I have no idea! And I've heard women speak all around the world in womens conferences, womens retreats, church services, Mothers Day, Fathers Day, womens meetings, and I've heard the very best!! But I can't remember ever any one of them addressing this in the manner JS has.

So I don't think it's been all that huge an issue in church really. If it is it's been well hidden I guess.

[rgcraig]

I just asked my husband if I've ever used sex to manipulate him. He says not that he knows of. :)

The fact is I heard teaching in this regard by our DS as a young married woman. He made the point that women should never use sex as a bargaining tool or as a weapon of any sort to get their way.

I remember when he spoke about this thinking ........ "Women do this? But how could they? It's wrong!" LOL.

This was how I was brought up too - never saw my mother use it as a "tool", but saw love and didn't realize it existed until I met other friends and especially ladies in the work place that talk about it.

I know it exist, just not with me.

[rgcraig]

Wow! What have I missed here today? Who is JS anyway? I'm surprised this thread has gotten this far without someone banning it just for good measure.:winkgrin


Listen to link on post #140 on this thread.

[Sherri]

Listen to link on post #140 on this thread.
Well, she's definitely not really my "style" but I didn't see anything wrong with her. I didn't think she acted masculine. I have seen much more femininity in men preachers than masculinity in the women.

As to what she was saying, I could barely understand her!

[rgcraig]

Well, she's definitely not really my "style" but I didn't see anything wrong with her. I didn't think she acted masculine. I have seen much more femininity in men preachers than masculinity in the women.

As to what she was saying, I could barely understand her!I think you listened to the wrong link.

The second link in that post is the one where she's talking to young ladies.

[Truly Blessed]

Post #140. (http://apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=56311&postcount=140)

She made it in regard to women manipulating men through their ability to be attractive. Good heavens. It's how God made women. We're attractive to the opposite sex. It's meant to be that way. And the attraction thing that goes on is inbuilt and the way God designed it. It's part of the whole male/female thing in regard to mating.

Perhaps we could go back to arranged marriages.God is in the business of arranged marriages! He certainly arranged mine. :)

[rgcraig]

God is in the business of arranged marriages! He certainly arranged mine. :)

Ahhhh! :friend (TB and Felicity sitting in a tree!!)

[Barb]

I saw my mother flirt - tremendously - with my father and him back. They were so cute!

You are right - our opinions are formed by our own realm of experience.

If you need any tips - PM me. J/K!!!!! :toofunny :toofunny

I saw my parents flirting, too...him patting her backside and cuddling in the kitchen, but I never ever connected it to manipulation of any kind.:nah

[Newman]

Thinking about this a few minutes ago and I can't recall ever in 33 years of ministry and many more of being in church that I have never ever heard one woman address this "two powers" thing.

I have never heard any of the speakers I've listened to over the years and I've heard ....... goodness! How many?!! I have no idea! And I've heard women speak all around the world in womens conferences, womens retreats, church services, Mothers Day, Fathers Day, womens meetings, and I've heard the very best!! But I can't remember ever any one of them addressing this in the manner JS has.

So I don't think it's been all that huge an issue in church really. If it is it's been well hidden I guess.

Good grief!

You have never seen girls that you didn't think dressed appropriately? You never heard about fornication or adultery being committed in the church? You never saw a married woman who flirts and carries on with other men? What about on the internet? Never saw nothing? Unbelieveable.

I better get my boots on so I can get out of here... :wacko

[Felicity]

'Kay...... gonna say this.

1. If these teen girls are using their femininity, attractive looks, bodies etc. in a manipulative way to attract guys and get into relationships with them that is based solely on the physical then it needs to be addressed. So credit goes to JS for that if this is what she is doing.

2. If she is saying that when choosing a partner for life you need to be looking for more than mere physical attractiveness and charm, then good for her because it's true.

3. Again ... I say that what young women and men should be hearing is that they need to live consecrated sold out lives seeking the will of God in regard to their future and future spouse as well.

And they need to be taught as well that there are qualities to be looking for in a mate that go beyond looks and personality and a great body that will make for a solid quality marriage that will stand the test of time.

I guess I just kind of thought that this is kind of normal stuff that young people in apostolic churches would be hearing from youth leaders and pastors and parents at home too.

[Newman]

'Kay...... gonna say this.

1. If these teen girls are using their femininity, attractive looks, bodies etc. in a manipulative way to attract guys and get into relationships with them that is based solely on the physical then it needs to be addressed. So credit goes to JS for that if this is what she is doing.

2. If she is saying that when choosing a partner for life you need to be looking for more than mere physical attractiveness and charm, then good for her because it's true.

3. Again ... I say that what young women and men should be hearing is that they need to live consecrated sold out lives seeking the will of God in regard to their future and future spouse as well.

And they need to be taught as well that there are qualities to be looking for in a mate that go beyond looks and personality and a great body that will make for a solid quality marriage that will stand the test of time.

I guess I just kind of thought that this is kind of normal stuff that young people in apostolic churches would be hearing from youth leaders and pastors and parents at home too.

And how do we know they aren't hearing that? We heard 5 minutes of a message out of how many other messages these girls have heard? Thank goodness for variety and many perspectives! :cool:

[Barb]

:( I guess I'm a little less sophisticated than some of you ladies here and don't have the cosmopolitan experience you all have had. I've led a fairly sheltered life. None of the women I've known have acted like this i.e. using their femininity to manipulate men (in a negative sense) into getting what they want.

I never saw this kind of behavior modeled by my mother or my sisters or my grandmother.

Never saw it modeled by my close friends -- either before marriage or after it. Neither I nor my close friends acted this way (intentional manipulation to draw some guy into relationship with us).

Haven't seen it modeled by most of the women I know in any kind of personal way. Like I said the women in my social circle which was the church circle didn't act that way. It was never even thought of by myself --- my mind certainly doesn't work that way. My husband would agree.

Our opinions are formed by our own realm of experience. Guess your realms of experience are outside of mine. :) All I knew was church, loving God and living for Him. And the friends I've hung with over the years were the same.
Well, there ya go...we can't take what Felicity says seriously because she's never been exposed to the 'real world'.

The girl was raised in the wilderness of Canada...primitive lifestyle. Why...the only men she ever saw, aside from her daddy, was when the Canadian Wells Fargo drove up to her neck of the woods with supplies!!

And now that she's way out West...mercy, they are so far out in the wilderness now, I'm surprised she hasn't run across Moses and the children!!

Y'all need to be sensitive to the fact that she's a product of her invironment...poor girl can't help it...!!:winkgrin

[Felicity]

And how do we know they aren't hearing that? We heard 5 minutes of a message out of how many other messages these girls have heard? Thank goodness for variety and many perspectives! :cool:Like I say, hopefully they're hearing this kind of good teaching (that I mentioned), but listening to some of you here and to JS's message .... (short clip - yes - I acknowledge that. We didn't hear the whole thing.) ..... I wonder.

It's a problem anyhow. You can teach these kids but they're not all gonna follow the advice that's for sure.

[Felicity]

:(
Well, there ya go...we can't take what Felicity says seriously because she's never been exposed to the 'real world'.

The girl was raised in the wilderness of Canada...primitive lifestyle. Why the only men she ever saw, aside from her daddy, was when the Canadian Wells Fargo drove up to her neck of the woods with supplies!!

And now that she's way out West...mercy, they are so far out in the wilderness now, I'm surprised she hasn't run across Moses and the children!!

Y'all need to be sensitive to the fact that she's a product of her invironment...poor girl can't help it...!!:winkgrinLOL! :toofunny Well, I'm so thankful for my wilderness experience. ;) :D

Actually, marrying in the will of God has taken me around the world to places most of you might only dream of seeing. Of course I had no way of knowing that when I made my choice or maybe I should say when I chose God's choice for me. :tiphat

[Felicity]

Good grief!

You have never seen girls that you didn't think dressed appropriately? You never heard about fornication or adultery being committed in the church? You never saw a married woman who flirts and carries on with other men? What about on the internet? Never saw nothing? Unbelieveable.

I better get my boots on so I can get out of here... :wackoHuh? I never said that. I don't know about getting your boots on and getting out. You don't probably need to do that. Maybe just need to read more carefully sis. :)

[Felicity]

I asked my wife the same question and she said "Sex?" !:friendLOL! You asked your wife if you ever used sex as a means to manipulate and control? Maybe to get her to make that cake or pie you love so much? :toofunny

[Rhoni]

I guess I'm a little less sophisticated than some of you ladies here and don't have the cosmopolitan experience you all have had. I've led a fairly sheltered life. None of the women I've known have acted like this i.e. using their femininity to manipulate men (in a negative sense) into getting what they want.

I never saw this kind of behavior modeled by my mother or my sisters or my grandmother.

Never saw it modeled by my close friends -- either before marriage or after it. Neither I nor my close friends acted this way (intentional manipulation to draw some guy into relationship with us).

Haven't seen it modeled by most of the women I know in any kind of personal way. Like I said the women in my social circle which was the church circle didn't act that way. It was never even thought of by myself --- my mind certainly doesn't work that way. My husband would agree.

Our opinions are formed by our own realm of experience. Guess your realms of experience are outside of mine. :) All I knew was church, loving God and living for Him. And the friends I've hung with over the years were the same.

Oh please Felicity...I think this is a bunch of denial, out of touch with reality on your part...are you sure that senility isn't setting in at such a young age?

:slaphappy

[Felicity]

Oh please Felicity...I think this is a bunch of denial, out of touch with reality on your part...are you sure that senility isn't setting in at such a young age?

:slaphappyYou think? Which part of what I said do you have a problem with Rhonda?

[Felicity]

I saw my parents flirting, too...him patting her backside and cuddling in the kitchen, but I never ever connected it to manipulation of any kind.:nahMy parents didn't do much of this. My dad was fairly reserved and shy even. Most of the time my mom flirted with him was only when people were around and he hated that! :)

[Barb]

Oh please Felicity...I think this is a bunch of denial, out of touch with reality on your part...are you sure that senility isn't setting in at such a young age?

:slaphappy

You don't believe that our opinions are formed by our personal experiences?!

[Rhoni]

You think? Which part of what I said do you have a problem with Rhonda?

Felicity,

The truth is that I don't believe a word of it. Women and sometimes men use their sexuality or sex in general to manipulate and control their spouses since the beginning of time. Do I think it scriptural...NO, but a reality yes.

From the first time he wanted it and she didn't and gave in because it was easier. From the first time a woman faked the 'O' to make her man feel important so that there would be peace in her home and she could get what she wanted from her man.

Women in and out of the church use their sexuality to get what they want, whether a job, a husband, a decision in their favor, ect...

I believe you have done it, I know I have done it, and I think most on this forum have done it some time or another...:aaa

It's the truth anyhow!

Blessings, Rhoni

[Rhoni]

You don't believe that our opinions are formed by our personal experiences?!

I thoroughly believe our opinions are formed by our own personal experience...I just don't believe Felicity lives in the real world sometimes.:winkgrin

[Newman]

Felicity,

The truth is that I don't believe a word of it. Women and sometimes men use their sexuality or sex in general to manipulate and control their spouses since the beginning of time. Do I think it scriptural...NO, but a reality yes.

From the first time he wanted it and she didn't and gave in because it was easier. From the first time a woman faked the 'O' to make her man feel important so that there would be peace in her home and she could get what she wanted from her man.

Women in and out of the church use their sexuality to get what they want, whether a job, a husband, a decision in their favor, ect...

I believe you have done it, I know I have done it, and I think most on this forum have done it some time or another...:aaa

It's the truth anyhow!

Blessings, Rhoni

You and Felicity are on a roll with unbelievable posts! Felicity denies any personal knowledge of any women misusing their sexuality in the church and Rhoni says everybody does it!

But to address Rhoni....

I don't believe all wives manipulate their husbands with sex. I am not buying what you are selling. :tiphat

[Barb]

I thoroughly believe our opinions are formed by our own personal experience...I just don't believe Felicity lives in the real world sometimes.:winkgrin

And your opinions are based on yours...not hers, so what's the beef?!

[Rhoni]

You and Felicity are on a roll with unbelievable posts!

But to address yours....

I don't believe all wives manipulate their husbands with sex. I am not buying what you are selling. :tiphat

Then you and I believe the same thing...not all do but a great majority of them do;):igotit

[Barb]

You and Felicity are on a roll with unbelievable posts!

But to address yours....

I don't believe all wives manipulate their husbands with sex. I am not buying what you are selling. :tiphat

Thank you...I'm not married, but I don't believe that...and I think all of ya are on a roll tonight!!

[CupCake]

Felicity,

The truth is that I don't believe a word of it. Women and sometimes men use their sexuality or sex in general to manipulate and control their spouses since the beginning of time. Do I think it scriptural...NO, but a reality yes.

From the first time he wanted it and she didn't and gave in because it was easier. From the first time a woman faked the 'O' to make her man feel important so that there would be peace in her home and she could get what she wanted from her man.

Women in and out of the church use their sexuality to get what they want, whether a job, a husband, a decision in their favor, ect...

I believe you have done it, I know I have done it, and I think most on this forum have done it some time or another...:aaa

It's the truth anyhow!

Blessings, Rhoni

Rhoni~ What can I add, other then I love your honesty and the fact your so willing to put yourself out there, what you say is truth. You go ...;)

[Rhoni]

And your opinions are based on yours...not hers, so what's the beef?!

Felicity and I can duke it out ourselves...I just don't believe she really believes that...if she does then maybe her roots really are blond:toofunny


Love you both but the absurdity of this thread is cracking me up!:slaphappy

[Rhoni]

Rhoni~ What can I add, other then I love your honesty and the fact your so willing to put yourself out there, what you say is truth. You go ...;)

Thank-you for the reality check...sometimes I get the feeling that I don't live in the same world as many people on this forum!:friend

[CupCake]

Then you and I believe the same thing...not all do but a great majority of them do;):igotit

Agree, not all do but some do...

[Felicity]

You and Felicity are on a roll with unbelievable posts! Felicity denies any personal knowledge of any women misusing their sexuality in the churchSis. Newman........

Where did I say that I deny personal knowledge of any women misusing their sexuality in the church?

[CupCake]

Thank-you for the reality check...sometimes I get the feeling that I don't live in the same world as many people on this forum!:friend

Lol~ Lady you are very real and I love you for that.:friend

[Felicity]

Thank-you for the reality check...sometimes I get the feeling that I don't live in the same world as many people on this forum!:friendThat's how I feel too. This is just too funny! :toofunny

[Barb]

Felicity and I can duke it out ourselves...I just don't believe she really believes that...if she does then maybe her roots really are blond:toofunny


Love you both but the absurdity of this thread is cracking me up!:slaphappy

It's not my thread, sis...I just walked back in the room...

[Newman]

Then you and I believe the same thing...not all do but a great majority of them do;):igotit

Well, how can you know about what goes on in the bedrooms of the great majority of wives in church?

Remember, people that come to you for counseling do not represent healthy marriages. ;)

[Rhoni]

That's how I feel too. This is just too funny! :toofunny


I am laughing my head off Felicity...you and I live in alternate universes sometimes! LOL:happydance

Love ya though...

Rhoni

[Rhoni]

Well, how can you know about what goes on in the bedrooms of the great majority of wives in church?

Remember, people that come to you for counseling do not represent healthy marriages. ;)

I have healthy friends believe it or not and we talk about such things;)!

Blessings, Rhoni

[Felicity]

Felicity and I can duke it out ourselves...I just don't believe she really believes that...if she does then maybe her roots really are blond:toofunny


Love you both but the absurdity of this thread is cracking me up!:slaphappyI think some people aren't reading real close. Just hearing what they want to hear or something.

I'm not duking it out with anybody. :tiphat

I do find the varying perspectives here quite interesting and the fact that some people are intent on reading only what they want to hear. Not what's actually been said.

[rgcraig]

This is better than the hair spray thread!

[Felicity]

This is better than the hair spray thread!ROFL! :killinme

[rgcraig]

Sis. Newman........

Where did I say that I deny personal knowledge of any women misusing their sexuality in the church?

Felicity:
"Haven't seen it modeled by most of the women I know in any kind of personal way. Like I said the women in my social circle which was the church circle didn't act that way. It was never even thought of by myself --- my mind certainly doesn't work that way."

[Felicity]

I am laughing my head off Felicity...you and I live in alternate universes sometimes! LOL:happydance

Love ya though...

RhoniWell I was raised in the wilderness. What's your excuse? :toofunny

[Rhoni]

I think some people aren't reading real close. Just hearing what they want to hear or something.

I'm not duking it out with anybody. :tiphat

I do find the varying perspectives here quite interesting and the fact that some people are intent on reading only what they want to hear. Not what's actually been said.


:friend Agreed...but everyone does perceive it their own way and what is running though my head now is making me smile;)...you duke it out with many whether you realize it or not!:winkgrin

[Barb]

Well I was raised in the wilderness. What's your excuse? :toofunny

:killinme

[Rhoni]

Well I was raised in the wilderness. What's your excuse? :toofunny

I know too much, have seen too much, and wasn't born in the wilderness...but sure spent some time there:toofunny

[Newman]

I have healthy friends believe it or not and we talk about such things;)!

Blessings, Rhoni

Are they still married? I can't imagine that manipulating husbands with sex is good for a marriage. :nah

[Felicity]

Felicity:
"Haven't seen it modeled by most of the women I know in any kind of personal way. Like I said the women in my social circle which was the church circle didn't act that way. It was never even thought of by myself --- my mind certainly doesn't work that way."I'm talking about women I know personally like my PW friends, the friends I had before I married, the friends I've made with women in the church. The women in my social circle did not model the manipulative controlling behavior connected with physical attractiveness that you all are talking about here.

Have I ever seen this kind of behavior? Occasionally, yes. But not by those I've been close to through the years - no.

Oh wait -- I had one friend who had beautiful eyes and eyelashes and she used to bat those at the boys? Would that count? :toofunny

[Felicity]

:killinme:friend

[Truly Blessed]

This was how I was brought up too - never saw my mother use it as a "tool", but saw love and didn't realize it existed until I met other friends and especially ladies in the work place that talk about it.

I know it exist, just not with me.Women in the work place. Now I could tell you some stories there. I spent the summer of 1972 working in a shoe factory in a department of mostly women. I had never heard such talk in 20 years of living. I was red faced most of the summer! :)

[Felicity]

If this subject wasn't so serious it would truly be a hoot but there are concerns here.

One being that you all need to read what is actually said, not what you want it to say! :cool:

[rgcraig]

Women in the work place. Now I could tell you some stories there. I spent the summer of 1972 working in a shoe factory in a department of mostly women. I had never heard such talk in 20 years of living. I was red faced most of the summer! :)

Absolutely! Women will talk about anything!

[rgcraig]

If this subject wasn't so serious it would truly be a hoot but there are concerns here.

One being that you all need to read what is actually said, not what you want it to say! :neener :grampa

I think I've been reading what is actually being said.

What do you think is being misread?

[Barb]

Women in the work place. Now I could tell you some stories there. I spent the summer of 1972 working in a shoe factory in a department of mostly women. I had never heard such talk in 20 years of living. I was red faced most of the summer! :)

Oops...man onboard...:winkgrin

[Felicity]

I think I've been reading what is actually being said.Well then good. If you read the post I just wrote it will help you to understand that I didn't say what you thought I said. :winkgrin

[CupCake]

I'm talking about women I know personally like my PW friends, the friends I had before I married, the friends I've made with women in the church. The women in my social circle did not model the manipulative controlling behavior connected with physical attractiveness that you all are talking about here.

I think most people would not reveal this about themselves, even amongst their very good friends, let alone their church ones. So to say it not happening, lets just say their probably not telling.

[Felicity]

Oops...man onboard...:winkgrinTB was raised in the wilderness too! :toofunny

[rgcraig]

I guess I'm a little less sophisticated than some of you ladies here and don't have the cosmopolitan experience you all have had. I've led a fairly sheltered life. None of the women I've known have acted like this i.e. using their femininity to manipulate men (in a negative sense) into getting what they want.

I never saw this kind of behavior modeled by my mother or my sisters or my grandmother.

Never saw it modeled by my close friends -- either before marriage or after it. Neither I nor my close friends acted this way (intentional manipulation to draw some guy into relationship with us).

Haven't seen it modeled by most of the women I know in any kind of personal way. Like I said the women in my social circle which was the church circle didn't act that way. It was never even thought of by myself --- my mind certainly doesn't work that way. My husband would agree.

Our opinions are formed by our own realm of experience. Guess your realms of experience are outside of mine. :) All I knew was church, loving God and living for Him. And the friends I've hung with over the years were the same.

Felicity,

Is this post that we've misread?

[Truly Blessed]

Felicity,

The truth is that I don't believe a word of it. Women and sometimes men use their sexuality or sex in general to manipulate and control their spouses since the beginning of time. Do I think it scriptural...NO, but a reality yes.

From the first time he wanted it and she didn't and gave in because it was easier. From the first time a woman faked the 'O' to make her man feel important so that there would be peace in her home and she could get what she wanted from her man.

Women in and out of the church use their sexuality to get what they want, whether a job, a husband, a decision in their favor, ect...

I believe you have done it, I know I have done it, and I think most on this forum have done it some time or another...:aaa

It's the truth anyhow!

Blessings, RhoniSo-o-o-o that's what's been going on for the last 33 years! I am truly devastated! Please ladies, say no more! :ignore

[Barb]

TB was raised in the wilderness too! :toofunny

Oh, Lord bless his peapickin' heart...:winkgrin

[Felicity]

I think most people would not reveal this about themselves, even amongst their very good friends, let alone their church ones. So to say it not happening, lets just say their probably not telling.You really think?

Some of these were people I spent a LOT of time with. We went to conferences and meetings together - on vacations together. We knew each other pretty well.

You could be right though, but I still prefer to believe unlike many of you here that most women don't act this way. I'm talking about purposeful intentional manipulation using their femininity or sexuality as a means of leverage or bargaining chip or tool to get what they want.

[Rhoni]

TB was raised in the wilderness too! :toofunny

reminds me of a song:

Tell me how did you feel when you came out of the wilderness...:aaa

[rgcraig]

So-o-o-o that's what's been going on for the last 33 years! I am truly devastated! Please ladies, say no more! :ignore

Lol.....you better back out of the room quietly, so us ladies can finish this conversation!!!! :toofunny

[Felicity]

I thoroughly believe our opinions are formed by our own personal experience...I just don't believe Felicity lives in the real world sometimes.:winkgrinCome and visit. You'll find out what world I live in and you'll see it's just like I talk about it being.

[Rhoni]

You really think?

Some of these were people I spent a LOT of time with. We went to conferences and meetings together - on vacations together. We knew each other pretty well.

You could be right though, but I still prefer to believe unlike many of you here that most women don't act this way. I'm talking about purposeful intentional manipulation using their femininity or sexuality as a means of leverage or bargaining chip or tool to get what they want.

PW's are really adept at hiding their true feelings...I know this for a fact cuz I was one of the best!

Blessings, Rhoni

[CupCake]

So-o-o-o that's what's been going on for the last 33 years! I am truly devastated! Please ladies, say no more! :ignore

Lol~ Feeling used????...;)

[Barb]

PW's are really adept at hiding their true feelings...I know this for a fact cuz I was one of the best!

Blessings, Rhoni

Rhonda, do you seriously believe this...that the women Felicity knew then and now are deceivers?!

[rgcraig]

You really think?

Some of these were people I spent a LOT of time with. We went to conferences and meetings together - on vacations together. We knew each other pretty well.

You could be right though, but I still prefer to believe unlike many of you here that most women don't act this way. I'm talking about purposeful intentional manipulation using their femininity or sexuality as a means of leverage or bargaining chip or tool to get what they want.

Absolutely! Just because you don't and I don't doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Your post made it sound like you thought it was just unheard of. I'm afraid it's the norm (especially in the world), but no doubt in my mind in the church too!