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Nahum
03-28-2007, 01:41 PM
Do you believe they exist?

My wife, who is very active in District Ladies ministry, tells me that more and more she sees women speakers who's mannerisms and demeanor seem to be quite masculine. They scream, pound the pulpit, line everybody out on standards and such.

Recently, I had a chance to watch a lady preacher from TBN. Her first name was Paula (I can't remember the last name). She exhibited what my wife told me she keeps seeing at some of our "ladies" conferences.

It was revolting. I can't stand to see male preachers who priss around like fairies, and I can't stand to see women preachers/speakers who stomp around like lumberjacks.

Does feminism have a place in the Apostolic movement?

QueenEsther
03-28-2007, 01:44 PM
Do you believe they exist?

My wife, who is very active in District Ladies ministry, tells me that more and more she sees women speakers who's mannerisms and demeanor seem to be quite masculine. They scream, pound the pulpit, line everybody out on standards and such.

Recently, I had a chance to watch a lady preacher from TBN. Her first name was Paula (I can't remember the last name). She exhibited what my wife told me she keeps seeing at some of our "ladies" conferences.

It was revolting. I can't stand to see male preachers who priss around like fairies, and I can't stand to see women preachers/speakers who stomp around like lumberjacks.

Does feminism have a place in the Apostolic movement?

In my opinion NO! You can be used of God and be a minister and be a lady but you should NOT act like a dude!!!!!!!!!!

revrandy
03-28-2007, 01:46 PM
Do you believe they exist?

My wife, who is very active in District Ladies ministry, tells me that more and more she sees women speakers who's mannerisms and demeanor seem to be quite masculine. They scream, pound the pulpit, line everybody out on standards and such.

Recently, I had a chance to watch a lady preacher from TBN. Her first name was Paula (I can't remember the last name). She exhibited what my wife told me she keeps seeing at some of our "ladies" conferences.

It was revolting. I can't stand to see male preachers who priss around like fairies, and I can't stand to see women preachers/speakers who stomp around like lumberjacks.

Does feminism have a place in the Apostolic movement?

Maybe like this short clip???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DLeBB-tQgs

Texas District Ladies Conference???

Nahum
03-28-2007, 01:46 PM
Maybe like this short clip???



??????

Esther
03-28-2007, 01:52 PM
Do you believe they exist?

My wife, who is very active in District Ladies ministry, tells me that more and more she sees women speakers who's mannerisms and demeanor seem to be quite masculine. They scream, pound the pulpit, line everybody out on standards and such.

Recently, I had a chance to watch a lady preacher from TBN. Her first name was Paula (I can't remember the last name). She exhibited what my wife told me she keeps seeing at some of our "ladies" conferences.

It was revolting. I can't stand to see male preachers who priss around like fairies, and I can't stand to see women preachers/speakers who stomp around like lumberjacks.

Does feminism have a place in the Apostolic movement?

Define what YOU mean by feminism.

Kutless
03-28-2007, 01:55 PM
Do you believe they exist?

My wife, who is very active in District Ladies ministry, tells me that more and more she sees women speakers who's mannerisms and demeanor seem to be quite masculine. They scream, pound the pulpit, line everybody out on standards and such.

Recently, I had a chance to watch a lady preacher from TBN. Her first name was Paula (I can't remember the last name). She exhibited what my wife told me she keeps seeing at some of our "ladies" conferences.

It was revolting. I can't stand to see male preachers who priss around like fairies, and I can't stand to see women preachers/speakers who stomp around like lumberjacks.

Does feminism have a place in the Apostolic movement?Pastor, my grandmother whom you know well may have had some quirks but all the years of her ministry she maintained a feminine quality that in my mind exemplifies a Godly woman.

Maybe "pertaineth to a man" should go beyond clothing.

Digging4Truth
03-28-2007, 01:56 PM
Maybe like this short clip???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DLeBB-tQgs

Texas District Ladies Conference???

Great googly moogly...

Esther
03-28-2007, 01:58 PM
Well I believe in women ministers, preaching.

I don't think they have to just stand there and read their notes in a soft gentle voice.

I don't think it is wrong for them to emphasize their points either.

So I guess my question is this, how would you "suggest" they emphasize their points without offending you, if they are not allowed to a) raise their little voices b) hit the pulpit c) stomp their feet d) anything else?

Nahum
03-28-2007, 01:58 PM
Define what YOU mean by feminism.

I should have said RADICAL feminism.

What I mean is a woman who has a domineering, controlling demeanor and acts like a man when she is preaching/speaking. She may something like this "ladies, you need to go home and tell your husbands!!!!"........ and then you fill in the rest. (My wife says this happens a lot.)

Felicity
03-28-2007, 01:59 PM
Do you believe they exist?

My wife, who is very active in District Ladies ministry, tells me that more and more she sees women speakers who's mannerisms and demeanor seem to be quite masculine. They scream, pound the pulpit, line everybody out on standards and such.

Recently, I had a chance to watch a lady preacher from TBN. Her first name was Paula (I can't remember the last name). She exhibited what my wife told me she keeps seeing at some of our "ladies" conferences.

It was revolting. I can't stand to see male preachers who priss around like fairies, and I can't stand to see women preachers/speakers who stomp around like lumberjacks.

Does feminism have a place in the Apostolic movement?Totally agree with you! :grampa

Some of these women make me ....... :aaa

Forgiven
03-28-2007, 02:00 PM
Recently, I had a chance to watch a lady preacher from TBN. Her first name was Paula (I can't remember the last name). She exhibited what my wife told me she keeps seeing at some of our "ladies" conferences.



Sounds like this might be who you are talking about

http://www.paulawhite.org

revrandy
03-28-2007, 02:01 PM
Great googly moogly...

:D..not sure what that means.....but :D

Nahum
03-28-2007, 02:02 PM
Well I believe in women ministers, preaching.

I don't think they have to just stand there and read their notes in a soft gentle voice.

I don't think it is wrong for them to emphasize their points either.

So I guess my question is this, how would you "suggest" they emphasize their points without offending you, if they are not allowed to a) raise their little voices b) hit the pulpit c) stomp their feet d) anything else?

Hey, its my WIFE who keeps complaining. I just wanted to know if anyone else has seen the same thing. The lady I watched on TBN makes me want to barf.

Nahum
03-28-2007, 02:03 PM
Pastor, my grandmother whom you know well may have had some quirks but all the years of her ministry she maintained a feminine quality that in my mind exemplifies a Godly woman.

Maybe "pertaineth to a man" should go beyond clothing.


She could preach with the best of them, but she was always very ladylike.

I love her!!! She is supercool.

Esther
03-28-2007, 02:07 PM
Maybe like this short clip???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DLeBB-tQgs

Texas District Ladies Conference???

Yes I liked it.

Thanks.

I hate dead, dull, and boring. :)

It is hard to be anointed and just stand there, but a few can do it.

QueenEsther
03-28-2007, 02:07 PM
Well I believe in women ministers, preaching.

I don't think they have to just stand there and read their notes in a soft gentle voice.

I don't think it is wrong for them to emphasize their points either.

So I guess my question is this, how would you "suggest" they emphasize their points without offending you, if they are not allowed to a) raise their little voices b) hit the pulpit c) stomp their feet d) anything else?

This is true.

Esther
03-28-2007, 02:07 PM
Hey, its my WIFE who keeps complaining. I just wanted to know if anyone else has seen the same thing. The lady I watched on TBN makes me want to barf.

Paula White?

Nahum
03-28-2007, 02:09 PM
Sounds like this might be who you are talking about

http://www.paulawhite.org

That's her!!!!!!!

She was stompin and chompin and spittin and screamin and the like.
It plumb scared me.

tbpew
03-28-2007, 02:10 PM
Do you believe they exist?

My wife, who is very active in District Ladies ministry, tells me that more and more she sees women speakers who's mannerisms and demeanor seem to be quite masculine. They scream, pound the pulpit, line everybody out on standards and such.

Recently, I had a chance to watch a lady preacher from TBN. Her first name was Paula (I can't remember the last name). She exhibited what my wife told me she keeps seeing at some of our "ladies" conferences.

It was revolting. I can't stand to see male preachers who priss around like fairies, and I can't stand to see women preachers/speakers who stomp around like lumberjacks.

Does feminism have a place in the Apostolic movement?

Is the apostolic movement an operation of men or of the Spirit?

Because if it is of the Spirit, there is neither male nor female in Christ.

Any sex/gender based "ism" would have to apply to the realm of men and NOT the Kingdom of God.

Do we really believe that gender has application in the construct of God's own body?

What next, that male members of the body of Christ have rule over female members of the body of Christ? Such an idea would be an indicator of a 'babe-in-Christ' syndrome.

Make no mistaken, there is a diversity of roles in the way this temporal life is engaged, but we should be very careful not to bring differentiations from the natural realm into the Kingdom of God.

QueenEsther
03-28-2007, 02:10 PM
That's her!!!!!!!

She was stompin and chompin and spittin and screamin and the like.
It plumb scared me.

Lol!! My grandma says she can't stand to watch that lady!!

Ron
03-28-2007, 02:10 PM
Chuckle, Snort, Guffaw. It would be funny if it were not so sad.

No, feminism is definitely not a good thing anywhere.

Michlow
03-28-2007, 02:10 PM
Do you believe they exist?

My wife, who is very active in District Ladies ministry, tells me that more and more she sees women speakers who's mannerisms and demeanor seem to be quite masculine. They scream, pound the pulpit, line everybody out on standards and such.

Recently, I had a chance to watch a lady preacher from TBN. Her first name was Paula (I can't remember the last name). She exhibited what my wife told me she keeps seeing at some of our "ladies" conferences.

It was revolting. I can't stand to see male preachers who priss around like fairies, and I can't stand to see women preachers/speakers who stomp around like lumberjacks.

Does feminism have a place in the Apostolic movement?

Being a feminist (i.e. the belief that women are socially, politically, and economically equal to men) is NOT at all the same thing as ACTING like a man.

One can be a feminist without being masculine. Now, whether one can be Apostolic AND a feminist is an entire different topic.

Nahum
03-28-2007, 02:12 PM
Is the apostolic movement an operation of men or of the Spirit?

Because if it is of the Spirit, there is neither male nor female in Christ.

Any sex/gender based "ism" would have to apply to the realm of men and NOT the Kingdom of God.

Do we really believe that gender has application in the construct of God's own body?

What next, that male members of the body of Christ have rule over female members of the body of Christ? Such an idea would be an indicator of a 'babe-in-Christ' syndrome.

Make no mistaken, there is a diversity of roles in the way this temporal life is engaged, but we should be very careful not to bring differentiations from the natural realm into the Kingdom of God.


I normally enjoy your posts. I am disappointed in this one.

God expects men to be men and ladies to be ladies.

Kinda makes me rethink my position on ladies preachers. That woman sounds like a feminazi.

Drama Queen
03-28-2007, 02:13 PM
Do you believe they exist?

My wife, who is very active in District Ladies ministry, tells me that more and more she sees women speakers who's mannerisms and demeanor seem to be quite masculine. They scream, pound the pulpit, line everybody out on standards and such.

Recently, I had a chance to watch a lady preacher from TBN. Her first name was Paula (I can't remember the last name). She exhibited what my wife told me she keeps seeing at some of our "ladies" conferences.

It was revolting. I can't stand to see male preachers who priss around like fairies, and I can't stand to see women preachers/speakers who stomp around like lumberjacks.

Does feminism have a place in the Apostolic movement?



Our ex-pastors wife is very masculine. She donít have a feminine bone in her body. But she can flat out preach her hubby! :girlnails

tbpew
03-28-2007, 02:14 PM
I normally enjoy your posts. I am disappointed in this one.

God expects men to be men and ladies to be ladies.

Kinda makes me rethink my position on ladies preachers. That woman sounds like a feminazi.

bro, sorry to make you think beyond titles (afterall titles is what discussion boards are all about).

please tell me pastor poster,
are there males and females in Christ?

Nahum
03-28-2007, 02:16 PM
bro, sorry to make you think beyond titles (afterall titles is what discussion boards are all about).

please tell me pastor poster,
are there males and females in Christ?

Well. God chose to be referred to in the masculine.

Stay on topic! Do you think radical feminism has a place in the Apostolic movement?

tbpew
03-28-2007, 02:19 PM
Well. God chose to be referred to in the masculine.

Stay on topic! Do you think radical feminism has a place in the Apostolic movement?

dude, you normally think in terms of principles and that's what I was trying to do to stay on topic!

Radical sexism is fully devisive and has no part in anything that calls upon the name of Jesus.

MALE dominance or FEMALE dominance is a work of division within the unity of CHRIST that should not be.

DJElkins
03-28-2007, 02:19 PM
Maybe like this short clip???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DLeBB-tQgs

Texas District Ladies Conference???


This is a very good reason why I am in support of TV advertising...but not ministry... :nah

Esther
03-28-2007, 02:20 PM
I should have said RADICAL feminism.

What I mean is a woman who has a domineering, controlling demeanor and acts like a man when she is preaching/speaking. She may something like this "ladies, you need to go home and tell your husbands!!!!"........ and then you fill in the rest. (My wife says this happens a lot.)

You might like what she would say go home and tell your husbands...........I'm gonna try and be better :) But.........if you don't like that.........well..........lol

Nahum
03-28-2007, 02:20 PM
dude, you normally think in terms of principles and that's what I was trying to do to stay on topic!

Radical sexism is fully devisive and has no part in anything that calls upon the name of Jesus.

MALE dominance or FEMALE dominance is a work of division within the unity of CHRIST that should not be.

Oh.

Esther
03-28-2007, 02:22 PM
I normally enjoy your posts. I am disappointed in this one.

God expects men to be men and ladies to be ladies.

Kinda makes me rethink my position on ladies preachers. That woman sounds like a feminazi.

What "that woman" are you referring to?

Nahum
03-28-2007, 02:22 PM
You might like what she would say go home and tell your husbands...........I'm gonna try and be better :) But.........if you don't like that.........well..........lol

If that were the case men would be flying their wives to every ladies conference in the continental US!!!!!!!

Esther
03-28-2007, 02:25 PM
If that were the case men would be flying their wives to every ladies conference in the continental US!!!!!!!

Hey now I have been to a few conferences where they straightened the ladies out in their roles.

I don't know what you are hearing, but I haven't been to a ladies conference in years. Perhaps things are changing without me being their to supervise. lol

Nahum
03-28-2007, 02:25 PM
What "that woman" are you referring to?

Paula

Esther
03-28-2007, 02:25 PM
Paula

Ok, thanks.

MissBrattified
03-28-2007, 02:34 PM
Well. God chose to be referred to in the masculine.

Stay on topic! Do you think radical feminism has a place in the Apostolic movement?

As Michlow pointed out, feminism and women acting masculine aren't exactly the same things, and it seems you're opposing the second one. Some people would call me a feminist, because I believe that women have equal value as men, that they should be treated with respect and cherished by the men in their lives, and should be able to pursue the will of God. Speaking from a purely secular perspective, I believe women should be able to attend the best schools, work the best jobs, vote, have equal legal rights in marriage, etc. etc.

Women should behave in a feminine manner, and it's obnoxious and offensive when they act masculine.

Now, whether or not a raised voice or a passionately presented sermon qualifies as "masculine" is debatable. Most people know effeminance[sp?] or a macho woman when they see it, and its hard to put into concrete terms.

I certainly don't think that it's proper teaching for a woman to say things like, "women go home and 'tell' your husbands!" First of all, that's just a lack of wisdom, since most men don't respond well to being "told" anything. (e.g., bossed around or ordered to do something), and secondly it seems to contradict the idea of wives being meek, submissive and respectful to their husbands.

Again, though, is that masculinity or ignorance? Who knows?

At Ladies' Conferences, women tend to let their guard down a little more and say what's really on their hearts, and they probably don't tone things down as much as they would if men were in the room, so I'm not sure that's a bad thing....

Now, it isn't really FAIR to judge a woman's total status as "feminine" when she's shockamoo-ing! :happydance Especially at a conference where there are only ladies, and she may not be as worried about appearance as she normally would be.


Nona Freeman...Vesta Mangun...Nancy Grandquist...LaJoyce Martin...just a few women who can speak the Word of God with equal power and anointing as a man, while still retaining their femininity and dignity. :coffee2

Nahum
03-28-2007, 02:41 PM
What if a man shockamoos like a lady?

What if a man is totally gay in his speaking style?

tbpew
03-28-2007, 02:43 PM
What if a man shockamoos like a lady?

What if a man is totally gay in his speaking style?
*note to file*
10 posts ago this same poster publically rebuked poor 'ol tbpew for not being on topic!:tiphat

MissBrattified
03-28-2007, 02:44 PM
What if a man shockamoos like a lady?

I'm not sure what that would consist of, really. :nah

What if a man is totally gay in his speaking style?

Well, barring the possibility that he has an accent that makes his speech seem "gay", I would say that I wouldn't be interested in hearing what he had to say, really.

For you to have a discussion, here, though, you've got to define what you view as essentially masculine and feminine speaking styles (and shockamooing). :tiphat

When you say "feminist", do you mean the views and perspectives a woman believes and professes in reference to women's "rights"? Or do you mean mannerisms, style of dress and speaking voice? Both? Neither?

SDG
03-28-2007, 02:45 PM
What if a man shockamoos like a lady?

What if a man is totally gay in his speaking style?

One prominent evangelist comes to mind :slaphappy :slaphappy

Nahum
03-28-2007, 02:45 PM
*note to file*
10 posts ago this same poster publically rebuked poor 'ol tbpew for not being on topic!:tiphat


I was trying to make a point!

You kill me!!!!! HAHAHA!!!!

Most people have a real problem with a sissyman. Why don't they have an issue with lumberjack women?

Ron
03-28-2007, 02:46 PM
God says in Revelation that the "Effiminate" will "NOT" get into Heaven.
By that token I would say that "Gays" or those who have an "Effeminate" nature
are shut out of Heaven?

By implication would that not also say that "Masculine" or women whose mannerism is not effeminate are not of God?

MissBrattified
03-28-2007, 02:46 PM
One prominent evangelist comes to mind :slaphappy :slaphappy

:coffee2

rgcraig
03-28-2007, 02:46 PM
Carp is gonna love this thread.

SDG
03-28-2007, 02:46 PM
I have to agree ... with AO ... Miss B ...

PP,

You are talking about masculinity vs. femininity ... they are behaviors ...

Feminism is an ideology ...

MissBrattified
03-28-2007, 02:48 PM
I was trying to make a point!

You kill me!!!!! HAHAHA!!!!

Most people have a real problem with a sissyman. Why don't they have an issue with lumberjack women?

Are you saying that women can't chop wood????? :rolleyes:

MissBrattified
03-28-2007, 02:48 PM
I have to agree ... with AO ... Miss B ...

PP,

You are talking about masculinity vs. femininity ... they are behaviors ...

Feminism is an ideology ...

Exactly!

SDG
03-28-2007, 02:49 PM
A woman can be feminine and believe in feminism.

Michlow
03-28-2007, 02:49 PM
As Michlow pointed out, feminism and women acting masculine aren't exactly the same things, and it seems you're opposing the second one. Some people would call me a feminist, because I believe that women have equal value as men, that they should be treated with respect and cherished by the men in their lives, and should be able to pursue the will of God. Speaking from a purely secular perspective, I believe women should be able to attend the best schools, work the best jobs, vote, have equal legal rights in marriage, etc. etc.

Women should behave in a feminine manner, and it's obnoxious and offensive when they act masculine.

Now, whether or not a raised voice or a passionately presented sermon qualifies as "masculine" is debatable. Most people know effeminance[sp?] or a macho woman when they see it, and its hard to put into concrete terms.

I certainly don't think that it's proper teaching for a woman to say things like, "women go home and 'tell' your husbands!" First of all, that's just a lack of wisdom, since most men don't respond well to being "told" anything. (e.g., bossed around or ordered to do something), and secondly it seems to contradict the idea of wives being meek, submissive and respectful to their husbands.

Again, though, is that masculinity or ignorance? Who knows?

At Ladies' Conferences, women tend to let their guard down a little more and say what's really on their hearts, and they probably don't tone things down as much as they would if men were in the room, so I'm not sure that's a bad thing....

Now, it isn't really FAIR to judge a woman's total status as "feminine" when she's shockamoo-ing! :happydance Especially at a conference where there are only ladies, and she may not be as worried about appearance as she normally would be.


Nona Freeman...Vesta Mangun...Nancy Grandquist...LaJoyce Martin...just a few women who can speak the Word of God with equal power and anointing as a man, while still retaining their femininity and dignity. :coffee2

Thank you so much Abi! I was beginning to worry that I was invisible :friend

Michlow
03-28-2007, 02:51 PM
I have to agree ... with AO ... Miss B ...

PP,

You are talking about masculinity vs. femininity ... they are behaviors ...

Feminism is an ideology ...

I said it first

*sob*

Can anybody hear me? Hello? Hello? Echo....

Nahum
03-28-2007, 02:51 PM
Okay, okay, okay

All of this detail! sheesh people! You knew what I meant!

I always thought feminists wanted to take over the world.
They think they are better than (not equal to) men.
They are butch and manly in their actions.

I'm gonna get killed for this one.

MissBrattified
03-28-2007, 02:52 PM
I said it first

*sob*

Can anybody hear me? Hello? Hello? Echo....

LOL!!!




Michlow, you are important. Your comments are equally important. :friend

SDG
03-28-2007, 02:53 PM
Kudos Michi ... for giving PP a dainty yet well-deserved Apostolic smackdown!!!

Michlow
03-28-2007, 02:54 PM
LOL!!!




Michlow, you are important. Your comments are equally important. :friend

LOL, I was starting to get a complex, like the last 10 things that I have posted got no response. Apparently because I haven't been around much people have forgotten that Mich needs attention! (I am a middle child you know!) :bigbaby

MissBrattified
03-28-2007, 02:57 PM
Okay, okay, okay

All of this detail! sheesh people! You knew what I meant!

I always thought feminists wanted to take over the world.
They think they are better than (not equal to) men.
They are butch and manly in their actions.

I'm gonna get killed for this one.

Then you would be wrong. :D At least, when it comes to simple definitions. Simply put, a woman can believe a woman has value and "rights" as a human being without being butch or ungodly. In fact, those sentiments are in line with God's Word, since He does not prefer men above women. (And you may kill me for that one.)

Now from a secular point of view, mainstream feminism is something that most Christian women should view cautiously and partake in with equal caution or not at all. Secular feminism is basically humanism* with a pretty face. (Not always so pretty...sometimes there are whiskers and butch haircuts....)

*That may not be the right word...I'm trying to find the word that describes a perspective in which a person values themselves above all others, and relies upon themselves above all others...humanism? Selfishness?

Michlow
03-28-2007, 02:57 PM
Kudos Michi ... for giving PP a dainty yet well-deserved Apostolic smackdown!!!

Not to mention using restraint when he implied that all feminists are manly and butch and want to take over the world...

I figured if he could say that, then I would be able to say that all Pastors are controlling evil-dictators who want absolute power over their congregations.

But I didn't, so I was good, right? :winkgrin

Nahum
03-28-2007, 02:57 PM
Kudos Michi ... for giving PP a dainty yet well-deserved Apostolic smackdown!!!

Michi is not a feminazi. There are some on this forum though. :happydance

MissBrattified
03-28-2007, 02:58 PM
Now, according to what you posted earlier in the thread, you're really talking about masculine behavior...right? Not really "feminism"....clarify, PP, and we can move forward with the conversation.... (well, only for about 20 more minutes).... :coffee2

MissBrattified
03-28-2007, 02:58 PM
Michi is not a feminazi. There are some on this forum though. :happydance

Are you going to name names or use initials? :D

Nahum
03-28-2007, 02:59 PM
Not to mention using restraint when he implied that all feminists are manly and butch and want to take over the world...

I figured if he could say that, then I would be able to say that all Pastors are controlling evil-dictators who want absolute power over their congregations.

But I didn't, so I was good, right? :winkgrin

So are you like say Hilary Clinton? Vanessa Redgrave?

Are you a militant feminist?

MissBrattified
03-28-2007, 03:00 PM
So are you like say Hilary Clinton? Vanessa Redgrave?

Are you a militant feminist?

PP, I'm now offering myself as a human shield. :aaa


...take a deep breath, Mich....:D

Nahum
03-28-2007, 03:01 PM
Now, according to what you posted earlier in the thread, you're really talking about masculine behavior...right? Not really "feminism"....clarify, PP, and we can move forward with the conversation.... (well, only for about 20 more minutes).... :coffee2

My newest goal in life is to escape your cruel clutches one of these days. LOL!

I suppose I mean masculine behavior. Do you think masculine behavior is wrong for a woman to exhibit MIss Bratti?

Nahum
03-28-2007, 03:02 PM
Are you going to name names or use initials? :D

I don't want to get banned. How would I survive? :slaphappy

tbpew
03-28-2007, 03:03 PM
Michi is not a feminazi. There are some on this forum though. :happydance
cool idea for a thread start...

rank all the AFF female posters from greatest to least on a "feminazi" scale.
Maybe we could set up brackets while there is still some March-madness left.

BOOMM's measly 620 visitor in one day number will be over-run.

It can be a full blown celebration of the principle that made *F*F rise so high and fall so far;
Forget the post, its all about the poster!
aka, FOOLS WHO COMPARE!

wow, and if this happens, we will owe it all to this thread.

MissBrattified
03-28-2007, 03:04 PM
My newest goal in life is to escape your cruel clutches one of these days. LOL!

Oh, now I'm hurt. I am not cruel. :depressed

I suppose I mean masculine behavior. Do you think masculine behavior is wrong for a woman to exhibit MIss Bratti?

Cautiously and generically speaking: Yes.

CupCake
03-28-2007, 03:06 PM
Do you believe they exist?

My wife, who is very active in District Ladies ministry, tells me that more and more she sees women speakers who's mannerisms and demeanor seem to be quite masculine. They scream, pound the pulpit, line everybody out on standards and such.

Recently, I had a chance to watch a lady preacher from TBN. Her first name was Paula (I can't remember the last name). She exhibited what my wife told me she keeps seeing at some of our "ladies" conferences.

It was revolting. I can't stand to see male preachers who priss around like fairies, and I can't stand to see women preachers/speakers who stomp around like lumberjacks.

Does feminism have a place in the Apostolic movement?


This does seem to happen, just not in the churches but in the work force as well. I see nothing wrong with a strong woman, but can't understand why they must act like men, turns me off.

Nahum
03-28-2007, 03:07 PM
cool idea for a thread start...

rank all the AFF female posters from greatest to least on a "feminazi" scale.
Maybe we could set up brackets while there is still some March-madness left.

BOOMM's measly 620 visitor in one day number will be over-run.

It can be a full blown celebration of the principle that made *F*F rise so high and fall so far;
Forget the post, its all about the poster!

wow, and if this happens, we will owe it all to this thread.

No one is addressing the real issue here. Nobody loves me. :nah

Is there a problem with MASCULINE acting women preachers/speakers?

MissBrattified
03-28-2007, 03:08 PM
No one is addressing the real issue here. Nobody loves me. :nah

Is there a problem with MASCULINE acting women preachers/speakers?

YES, there is a problem with it. It's annoying and offensive. Now, what should be done about it, PP? :coffee2

Nahum
03-28-2007, 03:09 PM
YES, there is a problem with it. It's annoying and offensive. Now, what should be done about it, PP? :coffee2

I think we should send them to an etiquette school for aspiring ladies conference speakers.

Nahum
03-28-2007, 03:10 PM

This does seem to happen, just not in the churches but in the work force as well. I see nothing wrong with a strong woman, but can't understand why they must act like men, turns me off.

THANK YOU!!!!!!!

tbpew
03-28-2007, 03:11 PM
No one is addressing the real issue here. Nobody loves me. :nah

Is there a problem with MASCULINE acting women preachers/speakers?
Yes. If one can ever confidently know the specific qualities to subscribe as NOT being interchangeable, women striving to be like men would be an abomination in the eyes of the one who created them a woman.

Of course this goes in the EXACT same application for men.

We are wonderfully made.
God's wisdom is revealed in the distinctions between a man and a woman.

Now we are left with the need to consider how the spirit witnesses to us when we encounter these circumstances; are we looking on the outward or are we considering something invisible.

MissBrattified
03-28-2007, 03:11 PM
I think we should send them to an etiquette school for aspiring ladies conference speakers.

Good idea. :D

MissBrattified
03-28-2007, 03:12 PM
Can there be a list of concretely masculine traits or mannerisms for reference sake?

Nahum
03-28-2007, 03:13 PM
Can there be a list of concretely masculine traits or mannerisms for reference sake?

1. Don't spit in the mike.

COOPER
03-28-2007, 03:14 PM
Do you believe they exist?

My wife, who is very active in District Ladies ministry, tells me that more and more she sees women speakers who's mannerisms and demeanor seem to be quite masculine. They scream, pound the pulpit, line everybody out on standards and such.

Recently, I had a chance to watch a lady preacher from TBN. Her first name was Paula (I can't remember the last name). She exhibited what my wife told me she keeps seeing at some of our "ladies" conferences.

It was revolting. I can't stand to see male preachers who priss around like fairies, and I can't stand to see women preachers/speakers who stomp around like lumberjacks.Does feminism have a place in the Apostolic movement?

Yes, I saw it first hand at the old UPC Bible College/Church in Dover Delaware.
She had muscular Jaws and walked like a body builder. When I saw her preach it was like watching a Rainbow warrior in pulpit. I could not focus on the message.
:nah

Nahum
03-28-2007, 03:14 PM
2. Don't slap the pulpit with your sandpaper palm.

tbpew
03-28-2007, 03:14 PM
Can there be a list of concretely masculine traits or mannerisms for reference sake?

eating your sandwich over the sink, rejecting any concept of plate or napkin

Nahum
03-28-2007, 03:15 PM
She had muscular Jaws and walked like a body builder. When I saw her preach it was like watching a Rainbow warrior in pulpit. I could not focus on the message.

This is so funny I almost spewed my coffee!!!!!!

HAHAHA!!!!

Rhoni
03-28-2007, 03:15 PM
Do you believe they exist?

My wife, who is very active in District Ladies ministry, tells me that more and more she sees women speakers who's mannerisms and demeanor seem to be quite masculine. They scream, pound the pulpit, line everybody out on standards and such.

Recently, I had a chance to watch a lady preacher from TBN. Her first name was Paula (I can't remember the last name). She exhibited what my wife told me she keeps seeing at some of our "ladies" conferences.

It was revolting. I can't stand to see male preachers who priss around like fairies, and I can't stand to see women preachers/speakers who stomp around like lumberjacks.

Does feminism have a place in the Apostolic movement?

Pastor Poster,

I think you have a skewed view of what Feminism is. Women acting like men is not anywhere in the definition. As for Paula White: she is an awesome speaker and is very feminine in her mannerisms.

Blessings, Rhoni

Nahum
03-28-2007, 03:16 PM
4. She should shave her legs.

COOPER
03-28-2007, 03:17 PM
This is so funny I almost spewed my coffee!!!!!!

HAHAHA!!!!
:slaphappy

MissBrattified
03-28-2007, 03:18 PM
1. Don't spit in the mike.

Dear me, I hope you are joking. I have accidentally spit on the mic while singing, quite a few times. (Then hoped I was the only one who noticed....LOL!!!!)

Nahum
03-28-2007, 03:18 PM
Pastor Poster,

I think you have a skewed view of what Feminism is. Women acting like men is not anywhere in the definition. As for Paula White: she is an awesome speaker and is very feminine in her mannerisms.

Blessings, Rhoni

Well all I know is I could see her esophagus when she preached. She acted like a bull in a china shop. She stomped and chomped and romped.

It was sceery!

CupCake
03-28-2007, 03:18 PM
THANK YOU!!!!!!!


YOUR VERY WELCOME....;)

tbpew
03-28-2007, 03:19 PM
5. she should not say "nda" during inhale cycles with the microphone jammed between the lips.

Rhoni
03-28-2007, 03:19 PM
As Michlow pointed out, feminism and women acting masculine aren't exactly the same things, and it seems you're opposing the second one. Some people would call me a feminist, because I believe that women have equal value as men, that they should be treated with respect and cherished by the men in their lives, and should be able to pursue the will of God. Speaking from a purely secular perspective, I believe women should be able to attend the best schools, work the best jobs, vote, have equal legal rights in marriage, etc. etc.

Women should behave in a feminine manner, and it's obnoxious and offensive when they act masculine.

Now, whether or not a raised voice or a passionately presented sermon qualifies as "masculine" is debatable. Most people know effeminance[sp?] or a macho woman when they see it, and its hard to put into concrete terms.

I certainly don't think that it's proper teaching for a woman to say things like, "women go home and 'tell' your husbands!" First of all, that's just a lack of wisdom, since most men don't respond well to being "told" anything. (e.g., bossed around or ordered to do something), and secondly it seems to contradict the idea of wives being meek, submissive and respectful to their husbands.

Again, though, is that masculinity or ignorance? Who knows?

At Ladies' Conferences, women tend to let their guard down a little more and say what's really on their hearts, and they probably don't tone things down as much as they would if men were in the room, so I'm not sure that's a bad thing....

Now, it isn't really FAIR to judge a woman's total status as "feminine" when she's shockamoo-ing! :happydance Especially at a conference where there are only ladies, and she may not be as worried about appearance as she normally would be.


Nona Freeman...Vesta Mangun...Nancy Grandquist...LaJoyce Martin...just a few women who can speak the Word of God with equal power and anointing as a man, while still retaining their femininity and dignity. :coffee2


:friend Amen...

MissBrattified
03-28-2007, 03:19 PM
2. Don't slap the pulpit with your sandpaper palm.

Slapping the pulpit is probably masculine...:D

Sandpaper palms could also be called dishwater hands, though...:coffee2

Nahum
03-28-2007, 03:20 PM
5. she should not say "nda" during inhale cycles with the microphone jammed between the lips.

I feel a spidit up in hayah! :tiphat

CupCake
03-28-2007, 03:20 PM
Yes, I saw it first hand at the old UPC Bible College/Church in Dover Delaware.
She had muscular Jaws and walked like a body builder. When I saw her preach it was like watching a Rainbow warrior in pulpit. I could not focus on the message.
:nah

Coop how dare you talk about me...J/K :friend

Rhoni
03-28-2007, 03:20 PM
Well all I know is I could see her esophagus when she preached. She acted like a bull in a china shop. She stomped and chomped and romped.

It was sceery!

Come on...many of you males have issues with women who are assertive or ministering in any fashion.:aaa

Blessings, Rhoni

MissBrattified
03-28-2007, 03:21 PM
4. She should shave her legs.

Waxing can also work...haha!!! But hey...if the woman is old, and she doesn't care to or can't reach her calves any longer...tights are always an option. I'll revise your rule:

4. Either remove the leg hair or COVER IT UP!!!! :D

Nahum
03-28-2007, 03:21 PM
6. She should not grab hold of anyone's head with both hands and shake it violently while praying.

Chan
03-28-2007, 03:21 PM
Do you believe they exist?

My wife, who is very active in District Ladies ministry, tells me that more and more she sees women speakers who's mannerisms and demeanor seem to be quite masculine. They scream, pound the pulpit, line everybody out on standards and such.

Recently, I had a chance to watch a lady preacher from TBN. Her first name was Paula (I can't remember the last name). She exhibited what my wife told me she keeps seeing at some of our "ladies" conferences.

It was revolting. I can't stand to see male preachers who priss around like fairies, and I can't stand to see women preachers/speakers who stomp around like lumberjacks.

Does feminism have a place in the Apostolic movement?Apostolic feminist (like Christian feminist) is as much an oxymoron as "eternally begotten" or (arguably) "military intelligence."

MissBrattified
03-28-2007, 03:21 PM
5. she should not say "nda" during inhale cycles with the microphone jammed between the lips.

I can't stand that...LOL...but I don't really like it when men do it either.

Rhoni
03-28-2007, 03:22 PM
Now, according to what you posted earlier in the thread, you're really talking about masculine behavior...right? Not really "feminism"....clarify, PP, and we can move forward with the conversation.... (well, only for about 20 more minutes).... :coffee2

:friend

MissBrattified
03-28-2007, 03:22 PM
6. She should not grab hold of anyone's head with both hands and shake it violently while praying.

Hmmm...not sure I agree...ever seen Vesta Mangun pray for someone? :tiphat

Nahum
03-28-2007, 03:22 PM
Waxing can also work...haha!!! But hey...if the woman is old, and she doesn't care to or can't reach her calves any longer...tights are always an option. I'll revise your rule:

4. Either remove the leg hair or COVER IT UP!!!! :D

Number four is duly ammended.:tiphat

tbpew
03-28-2007, 03:22 PM
would a devil respond any differently to a female rebuking it and commanding it leave then if a male rebukes it, and commands it to go?

Does the voice need to be convincing?

Sister Alvear
03-28-2007, 03:22 PM
wonder about Deborah riding that horse and commanding that army...

Rhoni
03-28-2007, 03:23 PM
wonder about Deborah riding that horse and commanding that army...

:happydance You go Sis ALvear!

COOPER
03-28-2007, 03:23 PM
Coop how dare you talk about me...J/K :friend
Do you were army green Suit skirts and carry a horse whip? :toofunny

Rhoni
03-28-2007, 03:23 PM
would a devil respond any differently to a female rebuking it and commanding it leave then if a male rebukes it, and commands it to go?

Does the voice need to be convincing?
:friend

Nahum
03-28-2007, 03:24 PM
wonder about Deborah riding that horse and commanding that army...

She rode side saddle and asked nicely.

MissBrattified
03-28-2007, 03:24 PM
Apostolic feminist (like Christian feminist) is as much an oxymoron as "eternally begotten" or (arguably) "military intelligence."

I think that secular feminism as it exists now probably can't be combined with Christianity, especially not in totality.

However, using a simplistic definition, I think that men and women are equal in value, and that we are equally important to God, to His kingdom, in the home, in the church, and anywhere else. Where secular feminism and my definition of feminism part ways, is where I believe that God ordained certain roles for men and women, and that we should submit to His will in those areas. Secular feminism submits to no one, to nothing, except itself.

Nahum
03-28-2007, 03:25 PM
would a devil respond any differently to a female rebuking it and commanding it leave then if a male rebukes it, and commands it to go?

Does the voice need to be convincing?

Nope, its the name dude!

But she doesn't need to body slam it, hog tie it, and slap it around either.

A simple command will suffice.

MissBrattified
03-28-2007, 03:25 PM
wonder about Deborah riding that horse and commanding that army...

Riding horses isn't specifically masculine. Commanding an army, however....:grampa

MissBrattified
03-28-2007, 03:26 PM
She rode side saddle and asked nicely.

I DOUBT it!!!! :toofunny More likely she hiked up her skirts a bit, rode bareback, and carried a BIG sword!!!!

tbpew
03-28-2007, 03:26 PM
She rode side saddle and asked nicely.

with shaved or covered legs
and
without shaking anybody's head with both hands.

COOPER
03-28-2007, 03:27 PM
She rode side saddle and asked nicely.
Just like a Southern Bell.

:tiphat Nice horse ma'am.

Nahum
03-28-2007, 03:27 PM
We need a number seven. Anyone?

Rhoni
03-28-2007, 03:28 PM
I DOUBT it!!!! :toofunny More likely she hiked up her skirts a bit, rode bareback, and carried a BIG sword!!!!

I think she wore britches, regular saddle and had her hair cut short so as not to be grabbed by the enemy! Bet she was a marked swordsman;)!

Blessings, Rhoni

Coonskinner
03-28-2007, 03:29 PM
Being a feminist (i.e. the belief that women are socially, politically, and economically equal to men) is NOT at all the same thing as ACTING like a man.

One can be a feminist without being masculine. Now, whether one can be Apostolic AND a feminist is an entire different topic.

Whether one can be a Christian and a feminist is the real question.

I say no.

tbpew
03-28-2007, 03:29 PM
Nope, its the name dude!

But she doesn't need to body slam it, hog tie it, and slap it around either.

A simple command will suffice.
my question was mostly rhetorical in an effort to see if there was tie-back to my initial antagonist insertion that there is neither male nor female in Christ.

but thanks for witness that we come in the name of Jesus for whatever we do in word or deed.

slave4him
03-28-2007, 03:30 PM
Can there be a list of concretely masculine traits or mannerisms for reference sake?

This is probably impossible task. That is the problem with discussions like this. I have known of men who were very strong, hard working hands with deep voices who decided they were gay. I also know of men who are very proper, soft spoken, hands that were very delicate looking whom were some very strong men. My adoptive father is one.

I also have met women whom could work right beside men yet they were good mothers and wives. I know women who are very prim and proper who should have never had kids or got married.

When I was in Iraq the women were very hard workers and their hands would make sand paper look smooth. The women did most of the field work. The men for the most part were very sissy acting. Yet they are against homosexual lifestyles way more than Americans.

Nahum
03-28-2007, 03:30 PM
Whether one can be a Christian and a feminist is the real question.

I say no.

You go Brother Coonskinner Sir.

The only people with testosterone should be men.

COOPER
03-28-2007, 03:30 PM
I think she wore britches, regular saddle and had her hair cut short so as not to be grabbed by the enemy! Bet she was a marked swordsman;)!

Blessings, Rhoni
Cool!
:igotit

I wonder if she looked Gothic?

Nahum
03-28-2007, 03:31 PM
Cool!
:igotit

I wonder if she looked Gothic?

Yep Deborah was totally butch!

You heard it here first folks.

tbpew
03-28-2007, 03:31 PM
I think she wore britches, regular saddle and had her hair cut short so as not to be grabbed by the enemy! Bet she was a marked swordsman;)!

Blessings, Rhoni

Is there scripture that lights up the fact that Deborah handled a sword?

Sister Alvear
03-28-2007, 03:31 PM
I just spoke today at a "lady Preacher" conference and guess who came and sat down to listen? My lovely husband!
He did not feel intimidated at all...I was so proud he came to hear me...Quite a handsome man he is!

Rhoni
03-28-2007, 03:32 PM
You go Brother Coonskinner Sir.

The only people with testosterone should be men.

Women need testosterone also...it is part of hormone therapy for menopause. Men and women have the hormones in different quanitiies and utilized in different ways.

Blessings, Rhoni

Ferd
03-28-2007, 03:32 PM
That's her!!!!!!!

She was stompin and chompin and spittin and screamin and the like.
It plumb scared me.

ive seen her. not totally sure she is a girl.

Nahum
03-28-2007, 03:33 PM
I just spoke today at a "lady Preacher" conference and guess who came and sat down to listen? My lovely husband!
He did not feel intimidated at all...I was so proud he came to hear me...Quite a handsome man he is!

While speaking did you .....

1. Spit.
2. Slap the pulpit.
3. Grab somebodys head and shake it.

I can't remember the rest.

WE STILL NEED A NUMBER SEVEN!!!!!

Rhoni
03-28-2007, 03:34 PM
Is there scripture that lights up the fact that Deborah handled a sword?

I have no clue, just thought it sounded good. To be honest - if she led and army it wasn't in skirts with sweet smelling perfume for a weapon...

slave4him
03-28-2007, 03:34 PM
Women need testosterone also...it is part of hormone therapy for menopause. Men and women have the hormones in different quanitiies and utilized in different ways.

Blessings, Rhoni

Yes and even PP has some so called feminine hormones.

tbpew
03-28-2007, 03:34 PM
You go Brother Coonskinner Sir.

The only people with testosterone should be men.

Ok, Rhoni got in first, but this is a fact you're going to have to just let go.

women need the hormone as well and it is produced within the ovaries.

(much less than men of course but nevertheless....

Rhoni
03-28-2007, 03:35 PM
ive seen her. not totally sure she is a girl.

If you can't tell she's a girl...you have problems...not only with your eyesight but much deeper than that! LOL:neener

Nahum
03-28-2007, 03:35 PM
I have no clue, just thought it sounded good. To be honest - if she led and army it wasn't in skirts with sweet smelling perfume for a weapon...

That would be a devestating weapon.

Lots better than smelly camo and cargo pants.

tbpew
03-28-2007, 03:36 PM
I have no clue, just thought it sounded good. To be honest - if she led and army it wasn't in skirts with sweet smelling perfume for a weapon...

I just do not for a minute believe that God would send Deborah into mortal combat for Israel. It just does not seem like a God thing in the temporal realm.

Nahum
03-28-2007, 03:37 PM
Yes and even PP has some so called feminine hormones.

Is that why I've been so moody here lately.

Well, I never!:igotit

SDG
03-28-2007, 03:38 PM
Is that why I've been so moody here lately.

Well, I never!:igotit

Yes.

Nahum
03-28-2007, 03:40 PM
Yes, I saw it first hand at the old UPC Bible College/Church in Dover Delaware.
She had muscular Jaws and walked like a body builder. When I saw her preach it was like watching a Rainbow warrior in pulpit. I could not focus on the message.
:nah


This is still hilarious!

I love it.

Its exactly what I was talking about! :slaphappy

SDG
03-28-2007, 03:41 PM
The Deborah argument is pretty compelling ... I think your 1950's mentality of women-like behaviors is evident .... Sir PP ...

if we got in time machine saw how rustic some Pioneer women were even in their Victorian dresses ... you probably would puke.

slave4him
03-28-2007, 03:41 PM
PP, check this out


http://www.4-men.org/testosterone/pms.html

Nahum
03-28-2007, 03:42 PM
ive seen her. not totally sure she is a girl.

She looks fine until she starts her "preacher" thing. Then its like "EEEEEEEK".

SDG
03-28-2007, 03:42 PM
This is still hilarious!

I love it.

Its exactly what I was talking about! :slaphappy

Who T*???

rgcraig
03-28-2007, 03:44 PM
Is that why I've been so moody here lately.

Well, I never!:igotit
Are you buying shoes, different colored shoes, or multiple pairs of shoes in the same color?

tbpew
03-28-2007, 03:44 PM
dan, nobody was probing for names.
why is the name important?

Nahum
03-28-2007, 03:44 PM
I have no idea who he was talking about.

I just thought his characterization of manly woman preachers was pretty good.

Nahum
03-28-2007, 03:45 PM
Are you buying shoes, different colored shoes, or multiple pairs of shoes in the same color?

NO!!!! Thank God. :aaa

Theophilus
03-28-2007, 03:45 PM
Maybe like this short clip???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DLeBB-tQgs

Texas District Ladies Conference???


Men are stupid??? Really Janice?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgRLHDWjQzY&mode=related&search=

MissBrattified
03-28-2007, 03:46 PM
The Deborah argument is pretty compelling ... I think your 1950's mentality of women-like behaviors is evident .... Sir PP ...

if we got in time machine saw how rustic some Pioneer women were even in their Victorian dresses ... you probably would puke.

This is true.

My Grandma was a total lady, but she worked hard from daylight to dark, in the garden, in the house, and she had hands that were the hands of a workin' woman.

Honestly, unless a woman is obviously trying to emulate a man, it is a tough call, whether you can say a woman is masculine or not.

rgcraig
03-28-2007, 03:46 PM
NO!!!! Thank God. :aaa
You're okay then.....lol!

Nahum
03-28-2007, 03:46 PM
Men are stupid??? Really Janice?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgRLHDWjQzY&mode=related&search=

Did she say that? I couldn't even understand what she was saying.

MissBrattified
03-28-2007, 03:47 PM
Men are stupid??? Really Janice?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgRLHDWjQzY&mode=related&search=

Yeah, we discussed this clip awhile back...I think it's pretty difficult to teach young women to love and respect their husbands and in the same breath tell them how stupid men are. I don't particularly hold any respect for stupid people. I wouldn't have married a stupid man. :nah

SDG
03-28-2007, 03:47 PM
Lady T ... is awesome y'all ... she's got some Patois in her .... Caribbean women are strong .....

MissBrattified
03-28-2007, 03:48 PM
Did she say that? I couldn't even understand what she was saying.

Click on the link. It's a different clip. :tiphat

tbpew
03-28-2007, 03:48 PM
Men are stupid??? Really Janice?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgRLHDWjQzY&mode=related&search=
janice jostrand (however it is spelled), is an amazing messanger that God has available.

she and her husband get it from God and give it liberally to any couple that can receive Godly counsels.

SoCaliUPC
03-28-2007, 03:49 PM
Do you believe they exist?

My wife, who is very active in District Ladies ministry, tells me that more and more she sees women speakers who's mannerisms and demeanor seem to be quite masculine. They scream, pound the pulpit, line everybody out on standards and such.

Recently, I had a chance to watch a lady preacher from TBN. Her first name was Paula (I can't remember the last name). She exhibited what my wife told me she keeps seeing at some of our "ladies" conferences.

It was revolting. I can't stand to see male preachers who priss around like fairies, and I can't stand to see women preachers/speakers who stomp around like lumberjacks.

Does feminism have a place in the Apostolic movement?

I think what you are referring to is not exactly "feminist" but more of "acting masculine." The two are totally different and two different subjects.

As for Paula White...I would not say she is masculine in any way.

SDG
03-28-2007, 03:50 PM
I think what you are referring to is not exactly "feminist" but more of "acting masculine." The two are totally different and two different subjects.

As for Paula White...I would not say she is masculine in any way.

You're late.

Esther
03-28-2007, 03:50 PM
6. She should not grab hold of anyone's head with both hands and shake it violently while praying.

That would apply to all or none!

Felicity
03-28-2007, 03:54 PM
Men are stupid??? Really Janice?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgRLHDWjQzY&mode=related&search=Out of the heart *and attitude* the mouth speaks. I don't like women making those kind of general putdown remarks. It's disrespectful for one thing. Untrue for another.

On the other hand, I don't like men making jokes about women that are putdowns either. :nah

SoCaliUPC
03-28-2007, 03:54 PM
I should have said RADICAL feminism.

What I mean is a woman who has a domineering, controlling demeanor and acts like a man when she is preaching/speaking. She may something like this "ladies, you need to go home and tell your husbands!!!!"........ and then you fill in the rest. (My wife says this happens a lot.)


Okay...definition noted.

Felicity
03-28-2007, 03:56 PM
I have no clue, just thought it sounded good. To be honest - if she led and army it wasn't in skirts with sweet smelling perfume for a weapon...Deborah didn't lead the army. She rode WITH a man - with Barak. She was a helpmeet, a source of encouragement. She cheered him on and she rode by his side.

I love it! :thumbsup

COOPER
03-28-2007, 03:56 PM
Yep Deborah was totally butch!

You heard it here first folks.

Or maybe she looked like this?

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w235/6dodge9/1032849683_l.jpg?t=1175118844

SDG
03-28-2007, 03:56 PM
4. She should shave her legs.

Although a definite pet peeve of mine ... How many women in the bible shaved their legs ....

Where do you come up w/ this STUFF??? ... PP!!!

Ferd
03-28-2007, 03:56 PM
She looks fine until she starts her "preacher" thing. Then its like "EEEEEEEK".

Bro, back in my yonderding days, i was in Uraguay in the Navy. we were sitting at a bar and this really good looking chick comes up and starts talking to one of my buddies. not long after the cops show up and get us out of that bar.

We didnt understand but once out of the situation, one of the cops told us, they didnt want us to kill that MNA that had been hitting on my buddy. Dude looked like a lady! and he/she was smoken hot! eeeeekkkkkkk!!!!!!

tbpew
03-28-2007, 03:58 PM
Or maybe she looked like this?

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w235/6dodge9/1032849683_l.jpg?t=1175118844
her hair almost looks magical.

rgcraig
03-28-2007, 03:59 PM
her hair almost looks magical.

I think her hair is shorter than you think and that other stuff is her collar of horse hair or something!

Ferd
03-28-2007, 04:00 PM
Now let me say this.

some years back I cant tell you how many Melinie (sp) Shock spoke at Louisiana District Mens conference the subject "The elephant in the room"

It should be required for every Apostolic man. you talk about real. and no, she didnt "paula white" the thing up.

MS is as classy a lady as you will find anywhere and annointed too.

tbpew
03-28-2007, 04:01 PM
I think her hair is shorter than you think and that other stuff is her collar of horse hair or something!

...every party needs a pooper that why we invited......:toofunny

SDG
03-28-2007, 04:02 PM
Men are stupid??? Really Janice?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgRLHDWjQzY&mode=related&search=

We are stupid. But what's worse is her premise that a woman's power solely lies in her good looks and sexuality.

rgcraig
03-28-2007, 04:02 PM
...every party needs a pooper that why we invited......:toofunny

She's got a nice figure though! :happydance

tbpew
03-28-2007, 04:06 PM
We are stupid. But what's worse is her premise that a woman's power solely lies in her good looks and sexuality.
I don't know how one youtube cut enables a witness in the spirit, but maybe with you all having no need for the ministry of this couple where you call home, the great mid-atlantic region can have more of their challenging and transformation thinking ministered in the hearts and minds of married folks on my street!

MissBrattified
03-28-2007, 04:07 PM
We are stupid. But what's worse is her premise that a woman's power solely lies in her good looks and sexuality.

Speak for yourself. I married a very smart man.

SDG
03-28-2007, 04:10 PM
Speak for yourself. I married a very smart man.

I'm sure he's MENSA material.

tbpew
03-28-2007, 04:12 PM
I'm sure he's MENSA material.
*I think he scores the MENSA entrance exams....*
:happydance
(afterall, just picking miss brat gets him to 140 before the next question)

MissBrattified
03-28-2007, 04:26 PM
*I think he scores the MENSA entrance exams....*
:happydance
(afterall, just picking miss brat gets him to 140 before the next question)

:D

Fonix
03-28-2007, 04:29 PM
Does feminism have a place in the Apostolic movement?



Yeah, In the trash can where it belongs.

triumphant1
03-28-2007, 04:31 PM
Speak for yourself. I married a very smart man.

Your hubby is smart...and he's a great guy to boot! :tiphat

MissBrattified
03-28-2007, 04:32 PM
Your hubby is smart...and he's a great guy to boot! :tiphat

I can only agree!!! :winkgrin

Steve Epley
03-28-2007, 04:36 PM
Paul sufered shipwrecks, beating with rods, being stoned, many severe things but he never had to suffer listening to a woman preacher. 1Tim.2:12!:happydance :happydance :happydance I have suffered more than him in that regard but it wasn't pleasant.:tiphat What was the name of that powerful woman preacher in the NT I forgot?

berkeley
03-28-2007, 04:38 PM
Maybe like this short clip???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DLeBB-tQgs

Texas District Ladies Conference???That was disgusting.

triumphant1
03-28-2007, 04:38 PM
Paul sufered shipwrecks, beating with rods, being stoned, many severe things but he never had to suffer listening to a woman preacher. 1Tim.2:12!:happydance :happydance :happydance I have suffered more than him in that regard but it wasn't pleasant.:tiphat What was the name of that powerful woman preacher in the NT I forgot?

Priscilla?.....LOL. You're on a roll keep it up!:toofunny

triumphant1
03-28-2007, 04:39 PM
That was disgusting.

I would have to agree in that it wasn't very appealing to me either...:ignore

SDG
03-28-2007, 04:39 PM
Paul sufered shipwrecks, beating with rods, being stoned, many severe things but he never had to suffer listening to a woman preacher. 1Tim.2:12!:happydance :happydance :happydance I have suffered more than him in that regard but it wasn't pleasant.:tiphat What was the name of that powerful woman preacher in the NT I forgot?

If women aren't supposed to preach ... then they aren't supposed to obey Christ's command to "GO AND PREACH THE GOSPEL"??

He just wants the men to preach the Gospel???

I don't get it????

triumphant1
03-28-2007, 04:42 PM
If women aren't supposed to preach ... then they aren't supposed to obey Christ's command to "GO AND PREACH THE GOSPEL"??

He just wants the men to preach the Gospel???

I don't get it????

This is a tennis match worth watchin.......BTW, I agree with you on this point.

But again, the way we do church and preaching is a far cry from what they did I have a feeling....most of our theatrics are not anointing, they are culture...JT Pugh is one of the most anointed ever as a speaker and he did little jumping and little screaming....I certainly never saw him act like that lady...

Steve Epley
03-28-2007, 04:43 PM
If women aren't supposed to preach ... then they aren't supposed to obey Christ's command to "GO AND PREACH THE GOSPEL"??

He just wants the men to preach the Gospel???

I don't get it????

He told the preachers to GO preach the gospel not women unless you call witnessing preaching.

Below are the names of ALL the women in the NT who preached in public assemblies to men:

















































































































































































































:aaa

Nahum
03-28-2007, 04:44 PM
Although a definite pet peeve of mine ... How many women in the bible shaved their legs ....

Where do you come up w/ this STUFF??? ... PP!!!

You want a woman who doesn't shave her legs?

Dude, I'm starting to worry about YOU now.

Nahum
03-28-2007, 04:46 PM
We are stupid. But what's worse is her premise that a woman's power solely lies in her good looks and sexuality.

What are you talking about Daniel?

Men are stupid? I get so sick of men being put down by a media that is so antimale its insane. It seems as though an inordinate amount of energy is spent trying to debunk the truth that the male is to lead his family.

RevDWW
03-28-2007, 04:48 PM
dude, you normally think in terms of principles and that's what I was trying to do to stay on topic!

Radical sexism is fully devisive and has no part in anything that calls upon the name of Jesus.

MALE dominance or FEMALE dominance is a work of division within the unity of CHRIST that should not be.

Huh???? Do you read the same New Testament I do? There is differential teaching between the sexes. The man is the head of the woman, the woman was made for the man and not vice versa. Just to make it clear I firmly believe and live a life that demonstrates my love for my wife like Christ loved the Church.

triumphant1
03-28-2007, 04:49 PM
He told the preachers to GO preach the gospel not women unless you call witnessing preaching.

Below are the names of ALL the women in the NT who preached in public assemblies to men:


:aaa

But of coarse there were many other men who preached and taught that are not listed either so that kindof taints this particular reasoning in my opinion...

When Luke wrote his account he primarily focused on certain events that surrounded a handful of people at best...

There are enough references to women in the writings though to see that there were at least several mentioned by name that held prominant positions....

To completly "x" them out of teaching/preaching on the basis of them not being exampled would be to "x" out the pastors who held weekly, and even daily, services in the early church...

Unless you think Peter and Paul were translated in a constant whirlwind of services...."Every body just hold on, Paul will be appearing in a moment. Ours is his 14th stop today....."

Besides...."your sons and daughters shall prophesy"

berkeley
03-28-2007, 04:51 PM
I would have to agree in that it wasn't very appealing to me either...:ignore
Yeah, that was really sick. I have no problem with women preachers. I wouldn't sit under a woman pastor, hard enough for me to submit to a man pastor, hah.

CupCake
03-28-2007, 04:52 PM
Well behaved women rarely made history ~ Eleanor Roosevelt

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w235/6dodge9/1032849683_l.jpg?t=1175118844[/QUOTE]

RevDWW
03-28-2007, 04:52 PM
Yeah, that was really sick. I have no problem with women preachers. I wouldn't sit under a woman pastor, hard enough for me to submit to a man pastor, hah.

You, my friend, are a hoot! :winkgrin

berkeley
03-28-2007, 04:53 PM
He told the preachers to GO preach the gospel not women unless you call witnessing preaching.

Below are the names of ALL the women in the NT who preached in public assemblies to men:

You don't think it had anything to do with the cultural norm of the day. ??

RevDWW
03-28-2007, 04:53 PM
Well behaved women rarely made history ~ Eleanor Roosevelt

Mybe not, but the do add civility.

Steve Epley
03-28-2007, 04:54 PM
You don't think it had anything to do with the cultural norm of the day. ??

Nope!!!!!!!!


Women can go nuts every month He knew this.:aaa

SDG
03-28-2007, 04:55 PM
Elder ...

Ecclesiastes

Here some hard facts you can't ignore:
1. Of the ministry of PROPHETS this included women! Young's Analytical Concordance p. 78 defines a "PROPHETESS" as a female
preacher."

2. "In Hebrew the word "preacher" is a FEMININE word and literally means, *a FEMALE lector, orator, or a preacher.* Look it up in Strongs and see if this is the definition?"


3. Biblically speaking Romans 16:1-2 describes Phebe as a Pastor. The word "servant" is "diakonos" Strongs defines this a "Christian minister or Pastor." Paul also states that Phebe was a "succourer" of many, this is the noun form of the verb "rule". A "succourer" according to THAYER means, "a woman set over others." Also Phebe was the one delegating business, "see that ye assist HER in whatsoever things SHE hath need of YOU to do." This does not describe the acts of a slave (as many would have us believe) or the text would have said, "see that SHE assist YOU in whatsoever things you hath need of HER." Phebe was the one in charge of the business of the Church.

4. 1Timothy 2:12 for the context changes from MEN and WOMEN to just man and woman (singular) who is this man and woman? Well, Paul uses the illustration of Adam and Eve, who were they? They were HUSBAND and WIFE! The word man is "aner" and the word woman is "gune". These two words used together in the singular ALWAYS mean "husband and wife"! Paul goes on to say that the woman will be saved in childbearing, where dies this take place? In the church or in the home? Obviously in the home i.e. husband and wife. Paul concludes by saying "if THEY" continue in faith". Who is THEY? Well, obviously it is a HUSBAND and WIFE! Luther's German translation states: "I permit not a wife to teach or domineer over her husband." What Paul is prohibiting is a woman usurping authority over her husband."

5. As for a woman keeping silent in the church ....
You need to figure out what "LAW" is referred to in 1Corinthians 14:34-35. This "LAW" is the one that "SAYS" that a woman are to be silent in the churches "as also saith the law" then Paul states: "for it is a shame for a woman to speak in the church" literally this is "for it is a shame for a woman to speak in the congregation" what LAW says so? Study 1Corinthians and you will see that Paul is responding to a letter written to him by Chole 1Corinthians 1, and beginning at chapter u7 he deals with specific issues of the letter. Now concerning the things you wrote unto me... We find a pattern of Paul quoting from the letter written by the Corinthians or stating the situation in Corinth. 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 IS NOT a command of Paul but rather a quotation from the letter written by the Corinthians who were imposing this "LAW" upon the church that women should not speak. What is this "LAW" the only LAw that says women should not speak in the congregation of men" --that is from the Talmud!

The Corinthians had embraced the Talmud and were teaching it as the commandments of God, and Paul said, "WHAT" in Greek this is the "e" participle and is a stiff rebuke to what just proceeded it. Paul uses this many times in 1Corinthians. Paul is rebuking the Corinthians for not letting women speak. "WHAT" came the word of God unto you, WHAT or came it unto you only, if any man be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the thing I WRITE (as opposed to what the Corinthians had wrote) are the commandments of God." Paul wrote that women could pray and prophesy in church 1Corinthians 11.

Paul wrote that women labored with him in THE GOSPEL Philippians 4:3. Paul wrote That a woman was a minister of the Church Romans 16:1.

Paul writes that a woman was an apostle Romans 16:7, Junia is a woman's name and to be "among the apostles" means to be apart of the apostles in the same sense that the tongue is among our members.

berkeley
03-28-2007, 04:55 PM
You, my friend, are a hoot! :winkgrin
Allow me to be more clear, I do not believe in women pastors. Shevangelists are fine, but I'm with Carp, I don't like hearing women whine, I mean, preach. :)

berkeley
03-28-2007, 04:57 PM
Nope!!!!!!!!


Women can go nuts every month He knew this.:aaaAhh, well half a womans sermons would be on wrath.. the other half on knitting...

RevDWW
03-28-2007, 04:58 PM
Ahh, well half a womans sermons would be on wrath.. the other half on knitting...

:toofunny

Steve Epley
03-28-2007, 05:04 PM
Elder ...

Ecclesiastes

Here some hard facts you can't ignore:
1. Of the ministry of PROPHETS this included women! Young's Analytical Concordance p. 78 defines a "PROPHETESS" as a female
preacher."

2. "In Hebrew the word "preacher" is a FEMININE word and literally means, *a FEMALE lector, orator, or a preacher.* Look it up in Strongs and see if this is the definition?"


3. Biblically speaking Romans 16:1-2 describes Phebe as a Pastor. The word "servant" is "diakonos" Strongs defines this a "Christian minister or Pastor." Paul also states that Phebe was a "succourer" of many, this is the noun form of the verb "rule". A "succourer" according to THAYER means, "a woman set over others." Also Phebe was the one delegating business, "see that ye assist HER in whatsoever things SHE hath need of YOU to do." This does not describe the acts of a slave (as many would have us believe) or the text would have said, "see that SHE assist YOU in whatsoever things you hath need of HER." Phebe was the one in charge of the business of the Church.

4. 1Timothy 2:12 for the context changes from MEN and WOMEN to just man and woman (singular) who is this man and woman? Well, Paul uses the illustration of Adam and Eve, who were they? They were HUSBAND and WIFE! The word man is "aner" and the word woman is "gune". These two words used together in the singular ALWAYS mean "husband and wife"! Paul goes on to say that the woman will be saved in childbearing, where dies this take place? In the church or in the home? Obviously in the home i.e. husband and wife. Paul concludes by saying "if THEY" continue in faith". Who is THEY? Well, obviously it is a HUSBAND and WIFE! Luther's German translation states: "I permit not a wife to teach or domineer over her husband." What Paul is prohibiting is a woman usurping authority over her husband."

5. As for a woman keeping silent in the church ....
You need to figure out what "LAW" is referred to in 1Corinthians 14:34-35. This "LAW" is the one that "SAYS" that a woman are to be silent in the churches "as also saith the law" then Paul states: "for it is a shame for a woman to speak in the church" literally this is "for it is a shame for a woman to speak in the congregation" what LAW says so? Study 1Corinthians and you will see that Paul is responding to a letter written to him by Chole 1Corinthians 1, and beginning at chapter u7 he deals with specific issues of the letter. Now concerning the things you wrote unto me... We find a pattern of Paul quoting from the letter written by the Corinthians or stating the situation in Corinth. 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 IS NOT a command of Paul but rather a quotation from the letter written by the Corinthians who were imposing this "LAW" upon the church that women should not speak. What is this "LAW" the only LAw that says women should not speak in the congregation of men" --that is from the Talmud!

The Corinthians had embraced the Talmud and were teaching it as the commandments of God, and Paul said, "WHAT" in Greek this is the "e" participle and is a stiff rebuke to what just proceeded it. Paul uses this many times in 1Corinthians. Paul is rebuking the Corinthians for not letting women speak. "WHAT" came the word of God unto you, WHAT or came it unto you only, if any man be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the thing I WRITE (as opposed to what the Corinthians had wrote) are the commandments of God." Paul wrote that women could pray and prophesy in church 1Corinthians 11.

Paul wrote that women labored with him in THE GOSPEL Philippians 4:3. Paul wrote That a woman was a minister of the Church Romans 16:1.

Paul writes that a woman was an apostle Romans 16:7, Junia is a woman's name and to be "among the apostles" means to be apart of the apostles in the same sense that the tongue is among our members.

Sorry a prophetess is NOT a female prophet.
Then ONLY women could preach!
YOU nor I have any idea what Phoebe did.
Sorry the verse not only said usurp authority it also said TEACH ! She can't do either.
It was the Corinithians allowing women to preach as with their other errors Paul was letting them know the word of God came to them NOT from them.
Women labor in the gospel all the time without preaching! Ever hear of laboring in prayer?
The passage does NOT say Junia firstly is a woman that is pure conjecture also it does not say she was an apostle but rather noted or known among the apostles. You could be known or note among the airplane pilots and never been in an airplane.
Advise come up with something better this is way t easy.:tiphat

Change your heading from FACTS to FICTION.

tbpew
03-28-2007, 05:07 PM
Huh???? Do you read the same New Testament I do? There is differential teaching between the sexes. The man is the head of the woman, the woman was made for the man and not vice versa. Just to make it clear I firmly believe and live a life that demonstrates my love for my wife like Christ loved the Church.

hey no problem with principles,
lets just decide if they apply to the created realm
or
the Kingdom of God

so REV,
are there males and females in Christ?

Rhoni
03-28-2007, 05:09 PM
Huh???? Do you read the same New Testament I do? There is differential teaching between the sexes. The man is the head of the woman, the woman was made for the man and not vice versa. Just to make it clear I firmly believe and live a life that demonstrates my love for my wife like Christ loved the Church.


It also stated that man was born of woman and shouldn't get so full of himself;)!

You have to take all of Corinthians not just one verse to prove your point! DUH!
:tiphat

Steve Epley
03-28-2007, 05:09 PM
hey no problem with principles,
lets just decide if they apply to the created realm
or
the Kingdom of God

so REV,
are there males and females in Christ?

Women are yet women in Christ yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOT when it comes to being baptized into Christ that is what the passage is speaking of.
Example two Holy Ghost filled sisters cannot marry thus there are distinctions.

berkeley
03-28-2007, 05:10 PM
Sorry a prophetess is NOT a female prophet.
Then ONLY women could preach!
YOU nor I have any idea what Phoebe did.
Sorry the verse not only said usurp authority it also said TEACH ! She can't do either.
It was the Corinithians allowing women to preach as with their other errors Paul was letting them know the word of God came to them NOT from them.
Women labor in the gospel all the time without preaching! Ever hear of laboring in prayer?
The passage does NOT say Junia firstly is a woman that is pure conjecture also it does not say she was an apostle but rather noted or known among the apostles. You could be known or note among the airplane pilots and never been in an airplane.
Advise come up with something better this is way t easy.:tiphat

Change your heading from FACTS to FICTION.
I've already stated that I'm ok with women preachers, but I hate when Junia is mentioned. We don't know if Junia was male or female, and noted amongst the Apostles means that they were familiar with Junia.

I can be noted amongst the AMF, but not hold license.

Rhoni
03-28-2007, 05:10 PM
Women are yet women in Christ yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOT when it comes to being baptized into Christ that is what the passage is speaking of.
Example two Holy Ghost filled sisters cannot marry thus there are distinctions.


:slaphappy :nah

tbpew
03-28-2007, 05:12 PM
Women are yet women in Christ yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOT when it comes to being baptized into Christ that is what the passage is speaking of.
Example two Holy Ghost filled sisters cannot marry thus there are distinctions.
sorry steve, I depart with you there
there is NO MARRYING in CHRIST.

SDG
03-28-2007, 05:13 PM
Sorry a prophetess is NOT a female prophet.A prophetess is a female prophet ... and can be translated to female preacher.


Then ONLY women could preach!Here... once again your limited knowledge or interest in languages is glaring

The word preacher is feminine ... in the Hebrew ...

Some languages have masculine and feminine words ... not dealing necessarily w/ gender

In Spanish an example would be: el auto [masculine article used w/ car ...Taken literally .... How many male cars do you know ...???

YOU nor I have any idea what Phoebe did.As long as it doesn't fit your ideology .. then she of course wasn't in ministry.

Sorry the verse not only said usurp authority it also said TEACH ! She can't do either.

It was the Corinithians allowing women to preach as with their other errors Paul was letting them know the word of God came to them NOT from them.
Women labor in the gospel all the time without preaching! Ever hear of laboring in prayer?
Preaching the Gospel ... or sharing the good news is Christ's mandate to all believer's ... and BTW ... ever hear of the PRIESTHOOD OF ALL BELIEVERS ... it's quite a powerful concept.

The passage does NOT say Junia firstly is a woman that is pure conjecture also it does not say she was an apostle but rather noted or known among the apostles. You could be known or note among the airplane pilots and never been in an airplane.Deny ... Deny ... Deny ... even when faced with biblical witness.

Steve Epley
03-28-2007, 05:17 PM
I've already stated that I'm ok with women preachers, but I hate when Junia is mentioned. We don't know if Junia was male or female, and noted amongst the Apostles means that they were familiar with Junia.

I can be noted amongst the AMF, but not hold license.

Very true.:tiphat

Rhoni
03-28-2007, 05:18 PM
There are quite a few licensed UPCI female preachers. So what would licensure be or not be according to scripture? It is God who uses who he will use..regardless of sex, licensure, or acceptance of others.

Ron
03-28-2007, 05:20 PM
Ahh, well half a womans sermons would be on wrath.. the other half on knitting...

:toofunny

SDG
03-28-2007, 05:20 PM
Iounias-Junia , a common Latin female name meaning "youthful", a Christian woman at Rome, mentioned by Paul as one of his kinsfolk and fellow prisoners, Thayer's Greek Definitions.

Steve Epley
03-28-2007, 05:20 PM
A prophetess is a female prophet ... and can be translated to female preacher.

Here... once again your limited knowledge or interest in languages is glaring

The word preacher is feminine ... in the Hebrew ...

Some languages have masculine and feminine words ... not dealing necessarily w/ gender

In Spanish an example would be: el auto [masculine article used w/ car ...Taken literally .... How many male cars do you know ...???

As long as it doesn't fit your ideology .. then she of course wasn't in ministry.

Preaching the Gospel ... or sharing the good news is Christ's mandate to all believer's ... and BTW ... ever hear of the PRIESTHOOD OF ALL BELIEVERS ... it's quite a powerful concept.

Deny ... Deny ... Deny ... even when faced with biblical witness.

Sorry Dan every thing you posted is an ASSUMPTION not ONE FACT is included.

All you need is where ONE woman preached in a public assembly to men and the discussion is over NAME the woman!!!!!!! Very simple.

The priesthood of all believers does NOT have ONE thing to do with the subject every saved person is included but every saved person is not in the 5-fold ministry.

SDG
03-28-2007, 05:24 PM
.

The priesthood of all believers does NOT have ONE thing to do with the subject every saved person is included but every saved person is not in the 5-fold ministry.

Saith whom ... you ??? Elder, it's farcical to maintain the position that preaching the gospel, as Christ commanded .... is witnessing ... yet preaching to a public assembly is SOME KIND OF OTHER PREACHING ???

It holds NO WATER ....

berkeley
03-28-2007, 06:32 PM
Iounias-Junia , a common Latin female name meaning "youthful", a Christian woman at Rome, mentioned by Paul as one of his kinsfolk and fellow prisoners, Thayer's Greek Definitions.




Thayers is outdated. If you don't believe me, just ask Newman. :)

Steve Epley
03-28-2007, 06:58 PM
Iounias-Junia , a common Latin female name meaning "youthful", a Christian woman at Rome, mentioned by Paul as one of his kinsfolk and fellow prisoners, Thayer's Greek Definitions.




I have looked this over and there are many lexicons that do not give the defintion that this was a woman. There are both masculine and feminine names used by both sexes today so that proves nothing. Like Chis, Gail, and many others. I know a pastor named Gail most folks named Gail are women so someone writing his name today 19 centuries later someone might say he was a woman because of the name. However the text does NOT say she was an apostle but rather was known or note among the apostles NOT THE SAME. Just give the name of that woman that preached in a public assembly to men and the discussion is over.:tiphat

berkeley
03-28-2007, 07:01 PM
I have looked this over and there are many lexicons that do not give the defintion that this was a woman. There are both masculine and feminine names used by both sexes today so that proves nothing. Like Chis, Gail, and many others. I know a pastor named Gail most folks named Gail are women so someone writing his name today 19 centuries later someone might say he was a woman because of the name. However the text does NOT say she was an apostle but rather was known or note among the apostles NOT THE SAME. Just give the name of that woman that preached in a public assembly to men and the discussion is over.:tiphat
Evan,... Leslie.... Ryce.... etc..

SDG
03-28-2007, 07:02 PM
Evan,... Leslie.... Ryce.... etc..

DEMAS A WOMAN'S NAME ... MAYBE EVEN BARNABAS ... AND SILAS TOO.

Steve Epley
03-28-2007, 07:14 PM
DEMAS A WOMAN'S NAME ... MAYBE EVEN BARNABAS ... AND SILAS TOO.

However the pronoun HE is used with them. No pronouns are used of Junia that is point so it is a guessing game. Again they are note or KNOWN among the Apostles I am KNOWN among bankers-carpenters-plumbers-factory workers but I am none of the above. So to be note or known among a group does not make you part of the group. That is so easy.

Trouvere
03-28-2007, 10:17 PM
Our ex-pastors wife is very masculine. She donít have a feminine bone in her body. But she can flat out preach her hubby! :girlnails

is this for real?

Pressing-On
03-28-2007, 10:27 PM
Yes, I saw it first hand at the old UPC Bible College/Church in Dover Delaware.
She had muscular Jaws and walked like a body builder. When I saw her preach it was like watching a Rainbow warrior in pulpit. I could not focus on the message.
:nah

:toofunny :toofunny :toofunny :toofunny

Trouvere
03-28-2007, 10:29 PM
Paul sufered shipwrecks, beating with rods, being stoned, many severe things but he never had to suffer listening to a woman preacher. 1Tim.2:12!:happydance :happydance :happydance I have suffered more than him in that regard but it wasn't pleasant.:tiphat What was the name of that powerful woman preacher in the NT I forgot?Phoebe and don't forget Dorcas.She preached using the clothesline approach.

berkeley
03-28-2007, 10:46 PM
is this for real?

pretty sickening..

Trouvere
03-28-2007, 10:50 PM
pretty sickening..

surely she got her lines reversed right?

berkeley
03-28-2007, 10:51 PM
surely she got her lines reversed right?
I would be ashamed, it's not something to brag about.:ignore

MissBrattified
03-28-2007, 10:51 PM
Our ex-pastors wife is very masculine. She donít have a feminine bone in her body. But she can flat out preach her hubby! :girlnails

Was this post meant to be complimentary to your ex-pastor's wife?

CupCake
03-28-2007, 10:58 PM
Do you were army green Suit skirts and carry a horse whip? :toofunny

Shhhhhh....;)

berkeley
03-29-2007, 12:02 AM
Was this post meant to be complimentary to your ex-pastor's wife?That is how some of us read it! :nah

Barb
03-29-2007, 01:05 AM
However the pronoun HE is used with them. No pronouns are used of Junia that is point so it is a guessing game. Again they are note or KNOWN among the Apostles I am KNOWN among bankers-carpenters-plumbers-factory workers but I am none of the above. So to be note or known among a group does not make you part of the group. That is so easy.

But it is my understanding that the pronoun 'he' is not in the Greek, so they were inserted by the translators for clarity...can anyone verify?!

Pressing-On
03-29-2007, 01:29 AM
But it is my understanding that the pronoun 'he' is not in the Greek, so they were inserted by the translators for clarity...can anyone verify?!

I believe someone said the Roman Catholics are the ones that changed it to "he". Didn't Brother Strange say that?

Esther
03-29-2007, 07:42 AM
Can anyone tell me if any of the Apostles where Gentiles?

If so, which one???

Steve Epley
03-29-2007, 07:49 AM
But it is my understanding that the pronoun 'he' is not in the Greek, so they were inserted by the translators for clarity...can anyone verify?!

That's it rewrite the Bible maybe God is a she??????????????????:tiphat

AGAPE
03-29-2007, 08:01 AM
That's it rewrite the Bible maybe God is a she??????????????????:tiphat

God IS a rewarder of them that diligently seek HIM>>>

MissBrattified
03-29-2007, 08:11 AM
Sorry a prophetess is NOT a female prophet.


Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

-prophesy --

prophēteuō
prof-ate-yoo'-o
From G4396; to foretell events, divine, speak under inspiration, exercise the prophetic office: - prophesy.

When you say a prophetess isn't a "prophet", what do you mean? What position are you excluding her from with that statement?

*curious*

Steve Epley
03-29-2007, 08:14 AM
Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

-prophesy --

prophēteuō
prof-ate-yoo'-o
From G4396; to foretell events, divine, speak under inspiration, exercise the prophetic office: - prophesy.

When you say a woman can't be a "prophet", what do you mean? What position are you excluding her from with that statement?

*curious*


Women can prophecy and exercise all nine gifts. Prophecying is NOT preaching look at those who prophecied in the NT they were not preaching but prophecying. The texts themselves are clear what NT prophecying is.

MissBrattified
03-29-2007, 08:17 AM
Women can prophecy and exercise all nine gifts. Prophecying is NOT preaching look at those who prophecied in the NT they were not preaching but prophecying. The texts themselves are clear what NT prophecying is.

But why is it so important to say that a woman is NOT a prophet??? I don't get it....I'm just wondering why that distinction is even necessary?

You didn't say "A prophetess is not a preacher", you said "A prophetess is not a female prophet!"

Isn't that precisely what she is? A female prophet? What is included in the definition of "prophet" that would exclude a woman from being a prophet, as opposed to a "prophetess"?

Steve Epley
03-29-2007, 08:37 AM
But why is it so important to say that a woman is NOT a prophet??? I don't get it....I'm just wondering why that distinction is even necessary?

You didn't say "A prophetess is not a preacher", you said "A prophetess is not a female prophet!"

Isn't that precisely what she is? A female prophet? What is included in the definition of "prophet" that would exclude a woman from being a prophet, as opposed to a "prophetess"?

Most prophets preached that is the crux of the matter but women who were prophetesses prophecied NONE preached that is the point. If a female prophet was percieved as a godly woman who prophocied only I would not have a problem but in todays language it is infered a woman prophet is a preacher.

COOPER
03-29-2007, 08:38 AM
But why is it so important to say that a woman is NOT a prophet??? I don't get it....I'm just wondering why that distinction is even necessary?

You didn't say "A prophetess is not a preacher", you said "A prophetess is not a female prophet!"

Isn't that precisely what she is? A female prophet? What is included in the definition of "prophet" that would exclude a woman from being a prophet, as opposed to a "prophetess"?

The out sliders looking in, will assume that Apostolics are Male supremest.

A prophetess is a Feminine form of prophet.

The Apostolics have created a demeaning role for women.

Women due respect and worth are denied.

freeatlast
03-29-2007, 08:40 AM
Can anyone tell me if any of the Apostles where Gentiles?

If so, which one???

It seesm like I recall Luke might have been a proselyte. Not sure.


**EDIT** well I just trried to find it in bible..can't find it. First time for everything. I WAS WRONG **EDIT

MissBrattified
03-29-2007, 08:46 AM
Most prophets preached that is the crux of the matter but women who were prophetesses prophecied NONE preached that is the point. If a female prophet was percieved as a godly woman who prophocied only I would not have a problem but in todays language it is infered a woman prophet is a preacher.

Okay....:D So technically speaking, a woman can be a prophet, but strictly in the prophesying role and no other...got it!!! :tiphat

COOPER
03-29-2007, 08:52 AM
Most prophets preached that is the crux of the matter but women who were prophetesses prophecied NONE preached that is the point. If a female prophet was percieved as a godly woman who prophocied only I would not have a problem but in todays language it is infered a woman prophet is a preacher.



1 Timothy 2 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain



1 Timothy 2
1I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;

2For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.

3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

6Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

7Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.

8I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.

9In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

10But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.

11Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

12But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 15Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

In Timothy, He said "I" not God, {Suffer not a woman to teach]

Then he implies that it was the woman first decieved not man.

As to say she is weak and not to be trusted?

COOPER
03-29-2007, 08:58 AM
Okay....:D So technically speaking, a woman can be a prophet, but strictly in the prophesying role and no other...got it!!! :tiphat

But MissBrattifeid,
A women preaching the gospel of Jesus for salvation to men, is only preaching Gods word unto salvation.

It is a sin that a man should be saved through the preaching of a woman?

Shall the man be saved by her words, but yet she is condemned for preaching the word?

Steve Epley
03-29-2007, 08:59 AM
Okay....:D So technically speaking, a woman can be a prophet, but strictly in the prophesying role and no other...got it!!! :tiphat

Not comfortable with the way the word is used today but yes.

Steve Epley
03-29-2007, 08:59 AM
In Timothy, He said "I" not God, {Suffer not a woman to teach]

Then he implies that it was the woman first decieved not man.

As to say she is weak and not to be trusted?

Was Paul inspired to write it???????????????????

Sister Alvear
03-29-2007, 09:04 AM
I refuse to get a wrong spirit over women preachers or anything...last day messages, when Jesus is coming and a whole lot more stuff...I just want my spirit and my attitude to be right. I was a single missionary for 4 years before I married and the women haters tryed to get me to go home and went as far as to tell me I was going to hell! (this is not directed at Brother Epley so please do not take this wrong)
But I know He that called made no mistake and I did my best as a single missionary and do my best as a married woman to work in whatever He asks in His fields.
Personally, I have no problem with leadership and those that know me best know I HATE to get up before a crowd but if it falls my lot I will do whatever is asked of me...
Whatever He says I will do...
I heard a beautiful message by Sister McGruder last night how God healed her of cancer. My husband could not be here last night as he preached somewhere else but he told me he would have given a lot just to hear her story...
One of the things that bothers me and maybe it is because I have been in a completely different culture for 40 years but when American men come and we have a ladies meeting and they show no interest whatsoever in what their wife is saying and would never care to listen to her...
I am a blessed lady to have such a kind noble husband that encourages me in the work of the Lord. Sometimes he askes someone to teach his Sunday School class and just appears in mine and says, "decided to come back you...wanted to listen today..." Does that make me feel I am teaching him? OF course not...does that make me feel he is interested in me and my SS class...YES, it does...I study my lessons harder for how do I know when he just might ask someone else to teach his class (the adults) and pop in my class... not only does he show up in my class he appears in some of our other classes...
We are so proud to have a pastor that makes each one of his helpers feel important to him....
I witnessed one pastor laugh at his wife...it deeply hurt me...he was that group that felt he was so high and mighty...he came tumbling down...
I do not mean that all men that do not believe in women workers would feel that way for many DO not...but we need to be extra careful what we say for either side could be wrong...All we say the recording angel writes it down...

I am greatly impressed by women such as Sister Holmes she has always been my role model since a small girl...I still remember sermons she preached when I was in grade and high school...such a lady...
I hope I can be remembered as a lady...

Sister Alvear
03-29-2007, 09:10 AM
I mean no harm I just think many heated discussions start and many end up enemies and we live in the same camp...
I love God's people both his men and women and I do bleive there is a divine order and I respect it...but I do not respect men that say vulgar things about women from the pulpits or in their little circles...
I respect people that differ...I hope I can in some little way be a lady that has a right spirit in every matter. And on this subject we need all the godly men we can get for I am not afriad to follow a godly man...
My husband is a godly man, my pastor is a godly man...and I am blessed to know many godly men...and many that write here both pro and con are godly men...Thank you for such an example!

Sister Alvear
03-29-2007, 09:21 AM
and let me say here over the years as a lady I probably have done lots of "mens" jobs...but today I no longer have to do any of those things. I do other things...my greatest interest at the moment is my dear SS class.

I do not personally have a car Brother Alvear does but if I had a car my burden would be to go and gather in the street childern and take them to our place and work with them...but since I cannot do that I work with those around me and we have a nice little group and with my grocery money I save enough to pay music classes for a couple of them and have put some of them in a sign language class....and I just put more water in the beans!

So my dear ladies just do what you can do....
Someone asks me last night was I an ordained minister? I said no and don't plan on it either...why would I need a paper to tell someone about Jesus?
lol...
Well, I love you folks...

Felicity
03-29-2007, 09:22 AM
Yes, I saw it first hand at the old UPC Bible College/Church in Dover Delaware.
She had muscular Jaws and walked like a body builder. When I saw her preach it was like watching a Rainbow warrior in pulpit. I could not focus on the message.
:nahI'm sure I know who you're talking about. I remember her. :toofunny

Sister Alvear
03-29-2007, 09:25 AM
I don't think any Godly lady would want to take authority over a man...

COOPER
03-29-2007, 09:42 AM
Was Paul inspired to write it???????????????????

He said I As in Him,,,, ...was every thing he wrote under an Insperation of thus sayeth the Lord??

And these are letters. Every passing word or though of Paul was not God.

Or do used as a doctrine to put down women.

Women were looked upon differntly back then.

Paul or one them Writers wrote about slaves and submitting to masters, do we teach its ok to have a slaves?

God did not say, "Now Paul Write these things to The church!"

Truly Blessed
03-29-2007, 10:03 AM
Okay....:D So technically speaking, a woman can be a prophet, but strictly in the prophesying role and no other...got it!!! :tiphat
A woman can be anything God wants her to be. She can be a Queen, or she can be a Lydia, seller of purple, "...whose heart God opened..." and served as a hostess to Paul and Silas.

According to Galatians 3:28, "...there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

Even Paul spoke things that were inspired of God that he himself hadn't yet embraced because of the cultural traditions of his day. Surely in 2007 we've moved beyond the archaic mindset that women are somehow less qualified than men to serve God in ministry to the Body of Christ.

The only limitations that God has established is that the woman live within the boundaries set by the cultural obligations of her circumstances. In our culture women are granted equal status with men and this needs to be reflected in the church. There is no cultural reason in North America, and therefore, no biblical reason for restricting the freedom of women to function in whatever gifting God may have given them.

Esther
03-29-2007, 10:25 AM
A woman can be anything God wants her to be. She can be a Queen, or she can be a Lydia, seller of purple, "...whose heart God opened..." and served as a hostess to Paul and Silas.

According to Galatians 3:28, "...there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

Even Paul spoke things that were inspired of God that he himself hadn't yet embraced because of the cultural traditions of his day. Surely in 2007 we've moved beyond the archaic mindset that women are somehow less qualified than men to serve God in ministry to the Body of Christ.

The only limitations that God has established is that the woman live within the boundaries set by the cultural obligations of her circumstances. In our culture women are granted equal status with men and this needs to be reflected in the church. There is no cultural reason in North America, and therefore, no biblical reason for restricting the freedom of women to function in whatever gifting God may have given them.

Good post TB.

ForeverBlessed
03-29-2007, 10:32 AM
Maybe like this short clip???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DLeBB-tQgs

Texas District Ladies Conference???

Have you ever noticed we can have pages after pages of people discussing cut or uncut hair and the magic power that the uncut gives women. Of course the doctrine has been taught strongly for years..

But... look at this scripture, it is pretty plain... so what are we doing.. picking and choosing what is culture and what is not?

1 Cor 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

No, I am not against a woman speaking in a church... doesn't anyone else see the inconsistancies?

btw, I don't care for the way this woman is going about speaking/preaching.. she is trying to emulate a man... that disturbs me.

Pressing-On
03-29-2007, 10:37 AM
I don't think any Godly lady would want to take authority over a man...

POTD!!!!!!!

Chan
03-29-2007, 11:11 AM
I think that secular feminism as it exists now probably can't be combined with Christianity, especially not in totality.

However, using a simplistic definition, I think that men and women are equal in value, and that we are equally important to God, to His kingdom, in the home, in the church, and anywhere else. Where secular feminism and my definition of feminism part ways, is where I believe that God ordained certain roles for men and women, and that we should submit to His will in those areas. Secular feminism submits to no one, to nothing, except itself.Equal value, however, does not mean equal and interchangeable roles or equal authority. This is where Christian feminism (an oxymoron) goes wrong: it claims that there are equal and interchangeable roles and equal authority. God does not call women to the ministries listed in Ephesians 4:11. That does not make women in any way of lesser value than men (some here will lie about me and claim I'm saying women aren't allowed to do anything at all in the kingdom; they will wickedly bear false witness, showing the evil that is in their hearts, by claiming I hate women or am saying anything MORE than what I have said in this post). God has established a certain order and, in that order, there are men's roles and their are women's roles. Again, that doesn't mean women are somehow less than men because they are prohibited from taking on men's roles. Christian feminists commit treason against God by trying to go against His established order.

Chan
03-29-2007, 11:15 AM
This is probably impossible task. That is the problem with discussions like this. I have known of men who were very strong, hard working hands with deep voices who decided they were gay. I also know of men who are very proper, soft spoken, hands that were very delicate looking whom were some very strong men. My adoptive father is one.

I also have met women whom could work right beside men yet they were good mothers and wives. I know women who are very prim and proper who should have never had kids or got married.

When I was in Iraq the women were very hard workers and their hands would make sand paper look smooth. The women did most of the field work. The men for the most part were very sissy acting. Yet they are against homosexual lifestyles way more than Americans.Effeminacy has nothing to do with homosexuality. There are heterosexual men who are very effeminate (for example, the guy on one of those style shows who bleached his hair blond is heterosexual but very effeminate) and homosexual men who appear very masculine.

Chan
03-29-2007, 11:22 AM
The Deborah argument is pretty compelling ... I think your 1950's mentality of women-like behaviors is evident .... Sir PP ...

if we got in time machine saw how rustic some Pioneer women were even in their Victorian dresses ... you probably would puke.
Do you really think THIS is a compelling argument for erasing the distinctions between male and female roles?

"She sent for Barak son of Abinoam from Kedesh in Naphtali and said to him, 'The LORD, the God of Israel, commands you: "Go, take with you ten thousand men of Naphtali and Zebulun and lead the way to Mount Tabor." I will lure Sisera, the commander of Jabin's army, with his chariots and his troops to the Kishon River and give him into your hands.' Barak said to her, 'If you go with me, I will go; but if you don't go with me, I won't go.' 'Very well,' Deborah said, 'I will go with you. But because of the way you are going about this, the honor will not be yours, for the LORD will hand Sisera over to a woman.' So Deborah went with Barak to Kedesh, where he summoned Zebulun and Naphtali. Ten thousand men followed him, and Deborah also went with him."

Notice that God commanded Barak to go, not Deborah. Notice that 10,000 men followed Barak and not Deborah. Notice the passage says that Deborah went WITH Barak and that Deborah's role would be to lure Sisera into an ambush and not to fight like an army general.

originalsecretplace
03-29-2007, 11:28 AM
Yeah...

And a woman drove a spike through Sisera's head and into the ground.

heh heh heh Let that be a lesson to you men who underestimate just how strong stomached a woman can be.

:slaphappy

CupCake
03-29-2007, 11:56 AM
I don't think any Godly lady would want to take authority over a man...


I agree with this, I have no issues being under my husband headship, nor do I feel belittle by that fact. We each have different roles, does this make I or any other woman of lesser use in Gods eyes? No. The Word tells us in Genesis I 27-28

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created him; male and female he
created them.


God went on to tell them both to rule:

28 God blessed them and said to them, ‘Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea andthe birds of the air and over every living crea ure that moves on the ground.’