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The Five Fold Ministry
Reference Ephesians 4:1-16
Verses 1-6 speak about the one Church, the Body of Christ
Whether we recognize it as such or not, God only has one Church. It is made up of all those who have been placed (or baptized) into it by the Holy Spirit.
Verses 7-11 list 5 offices which Jesus has placed in His Church.
These offices are: apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers.
Verse 12 gives the purpose of those offices
“for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry for the edifying of the body of Christ”
Verses 13-16 tell us how long those offices will be needed
From the wording it seems to me that those 5 offices will be needed as long as there is a church that is made up of imperfect people.
When I was a new Christian I joined a church which would be called “cessationist.” In other words they believed that gifts of the Spirit were temporary until the books which became our New Testament were written. Part of this belief was that healing, prophecy, speaking in tongues and other gifts ended around the end of the first century. Also, that the offices of apostle and prophet ended at that time and that there could never be any additional apostles other than 11 of the original 12 plus the Apostle Paul.
Shortly after my conversion I discovered that there were things available to us today that were available to the early Church. Things like healing, miracles, and the empowering or baptism of the Holy Spirit were still available. Why would they have ever ceased if we were still in the same church that was established in the New Testament? I remember reading a book by the late Jack Coe where he listed several apostles in the book of Acts. This showed me that the number of apostles listed in the Bible was not limited to 12. I remember that he related a dream that one minister had where he saw a large hand which had two of the fingers bound so they could not be used. The Lord spoke to him that we were binding or limiting God from moving and acting like He wanted to because we refused to acknowledge two of the five offices in the church. These offices that we would not accept were apostles and prophets.
Shortly after this I went to St. Paul, Minnesota to a small Bible School. There we were taught that the offices of apostle and prophet had ceased shortly before the end of the first century. This was an Apostolic/Pentecostal Bible School and they were teaching some of the same cessationist stuff that I had heard in the denominational church which I had left. I realized this teaching could not be true because I had already read about 20 or so people who were called apostles in the New Testament.
Let’s look at these 5 offices and at some of the people in the New Testament who are identified by the titles of these offices.
The first is the office of apostle. I have the following notes about 26 people called "apostle" or "messenger" or "he that is sent" who are named. There are also some who are not named, plus Jesus is called an apostle in the NT. Our word apostle comes from “apostolos” which means a delegate, one sent with full power of attorney to act in the place of another, the sender remaining behind to back up the one sent, a messenger. The word occurs 81 times in the NT. It is translated apostle 78 times, messenger 2 times, and he that is sent 1 time. The original 12 are listed in Matthew 10:1-4 and Luke 6:12-16. The following are listed as apostles in the New Testament:
1 Peter, or Simon, or Kefa
2 Andrew
3 James (brother of John)
4 John (brother of James)
5 Philip
6 Bartholomew or Nathaniel, brother of Philip
7 James, son of Alphaeus or James the less Mark 15:40
8 Judas, or Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddeus, son of James,
9 Matthew or Levi of Alphaeus Mark 2:14; Luke 6:15-16
10 Thomas or Didymus or Twin
11 Simon the Zealot Acts 1:13
12 Judas Iscariot
13 Matthias Acts 1:26 (Paul refers to him as one of the 12 in I Cor 15:5)
14 Saul or Paul Gal. 1:1; 2:7,8, 1 Timothy 2:7
15 Barnabas Acts 11:22; 13:1-4; 14:1,4,14;I Cor 9:5-6
16 Andronicus Rom 16:7
17 Junia or Junias, or Julia Rom 16:7 (only woman called an apostle)
18 Apollos I Cor 4:6-9
19 James the Lord’s brother Gal 1:19 Acts 1:14, 1 Cor 15:7
20 Timothy I Thess 1:1; 2:6
21 Silas or Silvanus I Thess 1:1; 2:6, Acts 15:22
22 Titus 2 Cor. 8:23 (messenger) Acts 19:22
23 Epaphroditus Phil 2:25 (messenger)
24 Erastus Acts 19:22
25 Judas (Barsabas) Acts 15:22
26 Tychicus 2 Tim 4:12
27 Unnamed brothers 2 Cor 8:23
28 Jesus Christ Heb. 3:1
The following are listed as prophets in the New Testament:
Anna (Luke 2:36)
John the Baptist (Luke 7:28)
Agabus (Acts 11:27-28, Acts 21:10) and unnamed others (Acts 11:27-28)
Judas and Silas (Acts 15:32)
Only one person is called an evangelist in the New Testament. That is Philip (reference Acts 21:8)
The word “pastor” is not found in the King James New Testament. The plural form “pastors” is only found in Ephesians 4:11
As far as I can remember right now, only the Apostle Paul is called a teacher (reference 2 Timothy 1:11)
In Acts 13:1 it mentions certain people who are called “prophets and teachers.” These people are Paul, Barnabas, Simeon, Lucius, and Manaen. From the wording, I don’t know if all 5 of these were both “prophets and teachers” or if some were just prophets and some were just teachers, or if some fulfilled both offices.
Earlier I had mentioned the dream a man had about the hand of God with 5 fingers and how these 5 fingers represented the 5 offices of apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor and teacher. I recently came across an article online which also described these offices by comparing them to the fingers on a hand. You may or may not agree with everything in the short article but I think it’s interesting. I have slightly modified the wording of the article but did not modify the intent of it. I believe it was written by a Church of God in Christ minister. I don’t know if it represents the organization and offices of that particular group or not.
First, the thumb. The thumb represent the apostle.
Try holding your hand out and take your thumb and touch the tip of each finger on that hand. The apostle is the only finger that can touch each of the other offices. He reaches them all. He stays in contact with the churches he helps in building and establishes. He incorporates these ministries into that body so each can be efficient. The apostle is the first headship of the church given the right and authority to touch every member of the body of the 5-fold ministry. He is a man "anointed" to go and establish churches, as the Apostle Paul did. The apostle sets up churches and church leaderships in cities, countries and nations. The apostle sets up a church, incorporates the Word of God as the basics of its existence. He establishes helps in establishment of ministry inside the church and sets up a pastor if necessary. He helps the office of evangelism in bringing in the people. The church now established, the apostle moves on and establishes elsewhere. The apostle is a true missionary and does the work.
The second finger is the forefinger. It represents the prophet.
A prophet is one feared in the Old Testament, knowing he was a man of God who brought a word from God and some times it was correction, and such, showing tremendous miracles. The word prophet comes from the word prophetes which means “one who speaks for another.” This pointer finger points us to God and points out the Word of God for us.
The third finger, the middle finger represents the evangelist.
Holding your hand out flat and fingers together, you have a middle finger, the longest finger on your hand. This is the evangelist. This finger usually sticks out farther than the other four. Thus the evangelist reaches out into the community bringing in souls into the kingdom of God. It is an anointing that is within the evangelist that reaches for souls.
The fourth finger on the hand is the ring finger, the covenant finger, and represents the Pastor of the church.
The pastor is married to the church. He is in covenant to the Church that God has placed him over. He provides weekly food for the church table, the Word preached and taught to the sheep.
The pastor labors studying and preparing the Word. He gives fresh food as manna from heaven. He visits the sick and others in the body of the church. He stays daily with the church and assures all is well. He sets offices inside the church, prays and guards over them. He helps keep the sheep from wandering off, and being eaten by wolves. The pastor is the shepherd and covenant man of the church's house.
The fifth finger on the hand, the pinkie finger, is the smallest finger and most time with the hardest job. It represents The teacher. This little finger is the one we use to reach down into our ears. The little finger, the teacher, is anointed to bring the word in a way that one with a hearing ear, can sit down and listen to the teaching until well fed. A dedicated teacher is always studying to be prepared and his light never turns out. It’’s the anointing in the office of teacher that makes the Word blessed. We need anointed teachers of the Word.
I’ve seen the offices of evangelist, pastor, and teacher compared to the obstetrician, the pediatrician, and the dietitian.
One must pray and ask God to show where one fits, God will show him or her. He is concerned about His ministry and His church working so that all works together properly.
iceniez
10-08-2008, 05:24 AM
That is an awesome revealation.
PMBrown
10-08-2008, 05:39 AM
Marvelously said!! I suspect, though, that while not widely recognized, these Offices have always been in operation - although often crippled.
Sam, could you explain exactly why the Latter Rain movement halted the recognition of apostles and prophets in various denominations, including Oneness? I saw that you briefly mentioned the fact in another post, but you never elaborated.
Withdrawn
10-08-2008, 05:48 AM
No time to read it all and respond... bookmarking this topic. Very interesting!
Withdrawn
10-08-2008, 08:54 AM
Thank you, Bro. Sam. This is an excellent presentation of truth for the Church to hear. We have largely (and unfortunately) forsaken the intended structure of ministry to the church and have adopted the traditions of our RCC forefathers with a similar hierarchical structure.
There's a huge difference between how we traditionally look at ministry/leadership and how the first century church looked at it. Rather than have people with individual relationships with Jesus, who are accountable directly to Him, we have setup men to be "in charge" and to "make the rules" because it's easier for us to ask some man what to do and how to live than it is to pray for guidance through the Holy Ghost and have confidence that we've heard from Him correctly. And in distorting the role of shepherd (pastor) into an overlord, we've completely cut out the rest of the five-fold ministry that is provided to us for our perfection, edification and equipping.
I've heard the five finger explanation before, but it's always good to hear again. And I think it's dead on. As long as we allow ourselves to sit in congregations and submit to a man who has been setup as king over his own kingdom (which is exactly how many churches operate - large and small), we will miss the fullness of what God has for us and become effective in our own personal calling to minister to the sick and wounded in this world. Just like the children of Israel rejected God's plans for how to lead His people and required a king of their own, the church has done the same. We call him pastor, but he's really the king that Samuel described to the children of Israel. 1 Samuel 8. Read it and you might be amazed at the similarities.
I don't mean this as an indictment of all pastors - I know that many (probably even most) have a true heart for God and for His people, and they are truly servants at heart. I just believe that most are operating under so much stress and overwork (which often leads to burnout) because they don't have this revelation of how God intended for the ministry of His church to be setup. They take unto themselves all of these responsibilities (and authorities) and that was never God's plan. Still there are others (a minority, I hope) who do operate as kings and view themselves as such. The sheep are beaten into submission until they cannot think (study/interpret/understand) for themselves and rely completely on his whim or that of his royal family. These are the ones that are not "Apostolic", but rather "apostate."
steve p
10-08-2008, 11:38 AM
awesome posting!!
Pressing-On
10-08-2008, 11:43 AM
Good thread, Sam!!
Not taking away from your work here, but I never use my pinky in my ear. :toofunny
ronharvey
10-08-2008, 03:15 PM
What about where Pastors and (Kai=even=the same) teachers are lumped together?
Does it now become a 4 fold ministry?
What about the other offices mentioned? Does that increase to a ### fold ministry?
Serious question.
Ron
Pressing-On
10-08-2008, 03:24 PM
What about where Pastors and (Kai=even=the same) teachers are lumped together?
Does it now become a 4 fold ministry?
What about the other offices mentioned? Does that increase to a ### fold ministry?
Serious question.
Ron
Kai isn't always used as "even", from what I understand. It can simply just mean "and" as in "along with".
I'm not sure we can conclusively combine both pastor and teacher, JMO.
But you do raise a very good point.
PMBrown
10-08-2008, 05:45 PM
The Five Fold Ministry
The word “pastor” is not found in the King James New Testament. The plural form “pastors” is only found in Ephesians 4:11
This raises an interesting point. Is there a difference between the Offices of the five-fold ministry and the physical administrative Offices that run the church? I suspect this might be the case. Paul in the Epistles to Timothy and Titus refers to deacons and bishops but not to pastors. However, today there seems to be very little distinction between the role of pastor and bishop seems to be rolled up into one Office, with teachers more often than not relegated to Sunday school, and evangelists preaching revivals. Something seems seriously amiss here..........IMHO
ronharvey
10-08-2008, 06:34 PM
This raises an interesting point. Is there a difference between the Offices of the five-fold ministry and the physical administrative Offices that run the church? I suspect this might be the case. Paul in the Epistles to Timothy and Titus refers to deacons and bishops but not to pastors. However, today there seems to be very little distinction between the role of pastor and bishop seems to be rolled up into one Office, with teachers more often than not relegated to Sunday school, and evangelists preaching revivals. Something seems seriously amiss here..........IMHO
I have had this very conversation with many; including my own pastors.
The consensus has always been that what we call a pastor is actually in the bible a Bishop (who mus be apt to teach).
A deacon is who serves the local and corporate church.
Also, we call a deacon an evangelist when they also preach the gospel.
A Pastor is a Sheppard (Teacher).
I am sure when looked at you will see this also.
The "Five fold ministry" is now and always was a non bible doctrine.
It is never expounded on as a part of Apostolic understanding.
The Apostles (12) were called The Apostles or The 12 Apostles of the Lamb ( Revelation 21:14) distinguishing them from any other apostles.
The "5 fold ministry" only appears in our doctrine, not that of the Apostles.
Like the word "rapture" and "trinity" it is also not found.
Ron
This raises an interesting point. Is there a difference between the Offices of the five-fold ministry and the physical administrative Offices that run the church? I suspect this might be the case. Paul in the Epistles to Timothy and Titus refers to deacons and bishops but not to pastors. However, today there seems to be very little distinction between the role of pastor and bishop seems to be rolled up into one Office, with teachers more often than not relegated to Sunday school, and evangelists preaching revivals. Something seems seriously amiss here..........IMHO
Bishops and Elders seem to be the same office and pastor could be taken to mean the same.
Paul told Titus to ordain elders (plural) in every city (Titus 1:5) and then spoke of them as bishops in verse 6-7.
The word translated "elder" in our KJV is "presbuteros" (Strongs number 4245) which means an old person. The idea is that wisdom comes with age so those who are older and wiser are the rulers or elders. The type of government which uses aldermen (older men) is based on this. In my opinion the term "elder" can also apply to the office and not always on the age of the person. Many years ago when I was only twenty years old I was visiting in a church pastored by a woman who was over 70 years old. She referred to me as "Elder Ellis" and it just seemed strange to me since she was half a century older than I. But she was referring to the office, not my age. That organization (The Church of Jesus Christ Pentecostal Faith) did not use the term "Reverend." Actually I would have felt more comfortable just being called "Brother Ellis." Now that I am 70 years old (will be 71 before the end of the year) I am comfortable with the term "Elder." Actually, on my license/credential and on my fellowship card that is my title. That word "presbutero" is also where we get our word Presbyter from.
The word translated "Bishop" in our KJV Bible is "episkopos" (Strong's number 1985) and means superintendent or overseer. That's where the term episcopal in church government comes from. It may be why some organizations use "bishop," some use "overseer" and some use "superintendent."
The word "pastors" in our KJV is a translation of the word "poimen" (Strong's word no. 4166) which is usually translated "shepherd" in our KJV. Actually in Ezekiel 34 where the pastors are preached at by the prophet, in the LXX (Greek Septuagint which was the Bible usually used by the writers of the New Testament) the word used there is poimen.
Poimen can also be used in a verb form meaning "to shepherd." In Peter 5 where he addresses the elders (presbuteros) he refers to himself also as an elder (presbuteros) and tells them to feed/shepherd/pastor (poimen) the flock and they will get their reward when the Chief Shephere/Pastor (poimen) appears.
In Acts 20, the Apostle Paul summoned the elders (presbuteros) of the church in Ephesus and exhorted them to feed/pastor/shepherd (poimen) the church over which the Holy Spirit had made them overseers/bishops (episkopos).
When I said that bishop, elder, and pastor could mean the same thing, I was not claiming to be what some people consider a pastor. I refer to myself as an elder because I teach (midweek service Bible Study) and because I visit and pray for the sick, anointing them with oil in the name of the Lord (James 5:13-18). The church I attend does not have "elders" as an office. I do consider myself an elder in the Body of Christ.
Marvelously said!! I suspect, though, that while not widely recognized, these Offices have always been in operation - although often crippled.
Sam, could you explain exactly why the Latter Rain movement halted the recognition of apostles and prophets in various denominations, including Oneness? I saw that you briefly mentioned the fact in another post, but you never elaborated.
What we usually refer to as "The Latter Rain Movement" came from western Canada in 1948. It spread through the Pentecostal (both trinity and oneness) churches pretty rapidly. There was an emphasis on the gifts of the Spirit. Some would say an "over" emphasis. There were extremes. There was an emphasis on laying on of hands to impart the Holy Ghost Baptism and to impart the gifts of the Spirit. Some taught that when a person received the Holy Ghost Baptism he received all the gifts and they just needed to be stirred up (preferably by a Latter Rain prophet laying hands on you). The gift of prophecy was very prominent. There were "personal prophecies" and people were getting all kinds of guidance about things like whom to marry, where to move, what their calling from God was, about leaving churches, etc. It came at a time when the Pentecostal churches had lost a lot of the fire and zeal of Azusa Street and were pretty well organized and complacent. People were getting enthused (carried away?) and some pastors were afraid of folks in their congregations visiting prophets and healers and hearing from someone besides them. They (pastors) also didn't like the idea that someone outside their organization might consider himself a prophet or apostle and feel like they had authority over him (the pastor) or "his" sheep. Also, pastors and organization were put down by some of the Latter Rain apostles and prophets. There was more emphasis on experience than on teaching and trinitarians and oneness were fellowshipping one another. The reaction from some pastors and officials was to condemn the whole movement and anyone associated with it. In my opinion, Bro. Norris' teaching that there could be no apostles or prophets in the 20th century church was a reaction against the Latter Rain movement. It was derisively referred to as "Latter Splatter" and "Latter Drizzle." The people involved were "loose" with "standards."
Elder Epley would be able to give you more information on this. I didn't receive the Holy Ghost Baptism until 1956 and I did not have personal contact with anyone who would be considered "latter rain." Also, anything I heard about it was negative.
What about where Pastors and (Kai=even=the same) teachers are lumped together?
Does it now become a 4 fold ministry?
What about the other offices mentioned? Does that increase to a ### fold ministry?
Serious question.
Ron
Because of the way Ephesians 4:11 is worded, some believe that pastor/teacher is one office. That would make it a 4 fold ministry. I don't think (this is my personal opinion) that pastor/teacher is one office. I go along with the idea that pastor and teacher could be two separate callings and persons. In 1 Corinthians 12:28 "teachers" are listed as a gift. In Romans 12 teaching is listed as a gift. In 2 Timothy 1:11 the Apostle Paul calls himself "a preacher, an apostle, and a teacher..." In the Church at Antioch it lists several who were "prophets and teachers" (Acts 13:1. As I have said, I don't know if all 5 of those named there were both teacher and prophet or if some were just teachers and some were just prophets, or if some were both teachers and prophets.
...
The Apostles (12) were called The Apostles or The 12 Apostles of the Lamb ( Revelation 21:14) distinguishing them from any other apostles.
The "5 fold ministry" only appears in our doctrine, not that of the Apostles.
Like the word "rapture" and "trinity" it is also not found.
Ron
The original 12 were promised 12 thrones to rule over the 12 tribes of Israel (Matthew 19:28 and Luke 22:30). Also, the 11 (after the departure of Judas) chose one to replace him and stipulated that he was to have been with them all the way from the baptism of John until the ascension of Jesus (Acts 1:22). The one they chose was Matthias and he was numbered with the 11. Paul may have included him (Matthias) as one of the 12 who saw Jesus after His resurrection (1 Cor 15:5). Bro. Norris taught us at ABI that the choosing of Matthias was an error and God's choice for Apostle number 12 was Paul. Some believe Paul was qualified because he did see the resurrected Jesus (but he hadn't been around since the baptism of John).
Oh, and some of us believe in the "rapture" even though the word is not in our KJV. A form of the word is found in the Latin Vulgate.
Some of us believe in the trinity, some in the triunity, and some in the triune God although those words are not found in the KJV just like the word oneness is not found there.
Also, the phrase "United Pentecostal Church International" is not found in the KJV but some believe in it.
PMBrown
10-09-2008, 04:11 AM
What we usually refer to as "The Latter Rain Movement" came from western Canada in 1948. It spread through the Pentecostal (both trinity and oneness) churches pretty rapidly. There was an emphasis on the gifts of the Spirit. Some would say an "over" emphasis. There were extremes. There was an emphasis on laying on of hands to impart the Holy Ghost Baptism and to impart the gifts of the Spirit. Some taught that when a person received the Holy Ghost Baptism he received all the gifts and they just needed to be stirred up (preferably by a Latter Rain prophet laying hands on you). The gift of prophecy was very prominent. There were "personal prophecies" and people were getting all kinds of guidance about things like whom to marry, where to move, what their calling from God was, about leaving churches, etc. It came at a time when the Pentecostal churches had lost a lot of the fire and zeal of Azusa Street and were pretty well organized and complacent. People were getting enthused (carried away?) and some pastors were afraid of folks in their congregations visiting prophets and healers and hearing from someone besides them. They (pastors) also didn't like the idea that someone outside their organization might consider himself a prophet or apostle and feel like they had authority over him (the pastor) or "his" sheep. Also, pastors and organization were put down by some of the Latter Rain apostles and prophets. There was more emphasis on experience than on teaching and trinitarians and oneness were fellowshipping one another. The reaction from some pastors and officials was to condemn the whole movement and anyone associated with it. In my opinion, Bro. Norris' teaching that there could be no apostles or prophets in the 20th century church was a reaction against the Latter Rain movement. It was derisively referred to as "Latter Splatter" and "Latter Drizzle." The people involved were "loose" with "standards."
Elder Epley would be able to give you more information on this. I didn't receive the Holy Ghost Baptism until 1956 and I did not have personal contact with anyone who would be considered "latter rain." Also, anything I heard about it was negative.
Thank you Sam for taking the time to answer my question. I will certainly inquire further into the matter. I hope Elder Epley will not take offense to my questions, all asked in good faith, of course. From what you tell me and from what I've been able to find in other sources (which is not easy - perhaps i'm just looking in the wrong places, but the Latter Rain seems to have been very influential and poorly documented) it appears that this theology and approach has been revived in the "Third Wave" charismatic movement (i.e. the Vinyard Churches, the Toronto Blessing, Peter Wagner, Todd Bentley, Patricia King, Cindy Jacobs and many others). All the elements of Latter Rain theology seem to be there: the emphasis on prophecy, the firm belief in apostles and prophets, personal prophecy as a guide, quite a number of strange and/or extra-biblical doctrines (none of which seem to be systematically applied), the emphasis on gifts, the constant seeking for new and greater manifestations of the supernatural. The only truely new element I can see is the widespread teaching on spiritual warfare by binding territorial spirits - and its possible its also a preexisting teaching from the Latter Rain that I simply missed. What do you think about all of this? And are what I've noticed correct?
Also, there seems to be a link back to the Latter Rain via the Word of Faith movement through Kenneth Hagin, Fred Price, et al., in the teaching of manifest sons of God and serpent seed. Could you corroborate that? I'm sure I've seen snippets of manifest sons of God in the teachings of T. Bentley and Paul Cain and others in the "Third Wave" as well.
Withdrawn
10-09-2008, 07:20 AM
This raises an interesting point. Is there a difference between the Offices of the five-fold ministry and the physical administrative Offices that run the church?
Since they didn't have mega churches with paid staff and multi-million dollar facilities, I find it hard to believe that this would be a valid scriptural view.
MissBrattified
10-09-2008, 07:25 AM
Good thread, Sam!!
Not taking away from your work here, but I never use my pinky in my ear. :toofunny
I hope you don't use Q-tips!!!! :whistle
MissBrattified
10-09-2008, 07:25 AM
Excellent post, Sam. :)
Thank you Sam for taking the time to answer my question. I will certainly inquire further into the matter. I hope Elder Epley will not take offense to my questions, all asked in good faith, of course. From what you tell me and from what I've been able to find in other sources (which is not easy - perhaps i'm just looking in the wrong places, but the Latter Rain seems to have been very influential and poorly documented) it appears that this theology and approach has been revived in the "Third Wave" charismatic movement (i.e. the Vinyard Churches, the Toronto Blessing, Peter Wagner, Todd Bentley, Patricia King, Cindy Jacobs and many others). All the elements of Latter Rain theology seem to be there: the emphasis on prophecy, the firm belief in apostles and prophets, personal prophecy as a guide, quite a number of strange and/or extra-biblical doctrines (none of which seem to be systematically applied), the emphasis on gifts, the constant seeking for new and greater manifestations of the supernatural. The only truely new element I can see is the widespread teaching on spiritual warfare by binding territorial spirits - and its possible its also a preexisting teaching from the Latter Rain that I simply missed. What do you think about all of this? And are what I've noticed correct?
Also, there seems to be a link back to the Latter Rain via the Word of Faith movement through Kenneth Hagin, Fred Price, et al., in the teaching of manifest sons of God and serpent seed. Could you corroborate that? I'm sure I've seen snippets of manifest sons of God in the teachings of T. Bentley and Paul Cain and others in the "Third Wave" as well.
I'm not an expert on this but from my understanding:
The "healing" movement "began" in the late nineteen forties with William Branham. He "suddenly" appeared on the scene from "nowhere" and some real miracles happened. It was promoted by Bro. Jack Moore (UPC pastor in Shrevepot, LA) and by Gordon Lindsey. Gordon Lindsey later started an organization called "The Voice of Healing" and published a magazine promoting the ministries of others who started preaching healing and holding large campaigns. These were people like A.A. Allen, Jack Coe, Oral Roberts, Velmer Gardner, David Nunn, W.V. Grant and others. Soon these preachers started publishing their own magazines and radio programs. It became sort of a competition to see who could have the "largest" tent, largest crowds, and greatest miracles. The Voice of Healing is now known as Christ for the Nations and the magazine has changed. There is also a college which is part of that ministry. Gordon Lindsey died quite a few years ago and his wife, Frieda who is in her eighties or nineties now, just recently cut back on her involvement. It is now run by her son, Dennis.
People were saved, healed, and baptized in the Spirit in those large healing meetings but many could not exercise those gifts or fellowship in that manner in their local churches. The FGBMFI (Full Gospel Business Men's Fellowship International) developed during the early nineteen fifties. It was a place where people of different denominational backgrounds could come together and gifts of the Spirit could operate.
The Jesus Movement came into being as a reaction to the Hippie free love and drug culture of its day. In my opinion, people were genuinely saved and baptized in the Spirit through that movement. Many people were turned off by them because of their appearance and because they received these experiences outside of the structured Apostolic and/or Pentecostal churches. The Vineyard movement and Calvary Chapel group developed as a result of the Jesus movement.
The Charismatic movement began in the nineteen sixties. People from denominational churches were receiving the Holy Ghost Baptism. In some cases they were allowed to gather together and worship and exercise the gifts of the Spirit in small groups but not during the Sunday morning services. Many Roman Catholics were receiving the Holy Ghost Baptism and still remaining in their churches. Our reaction here in an Apostolic Church in Cincinnati (and from what I understand, in other Apostolic Pentecostal churches) to this was threefold:
1) Something wasn't right about their experience because they didn't come to us to receive it
2) they didn't get baptized in Jesus' name so they weren't really saved whether their experience in the Spirit was genuine or not
3) Some did not think this was the "real" Holy Ghost because of reasons 1 and 2 above.
Out of all of this we now have "mega" churches like Willow Creek, the Vineyard, Calvary Chapel, The Purpose Driven (some would say Purpose Drivel) churches and the "prophetic" movement with Peter Wagner, Cindy Jacobs, Dutch Sheets, the "late" (just kidding about "late" because he has dropped out of the scene) Todd Bentley and others involved with and promoted by "The Elijah List." In my opinion, The Elijah List is sort of like the Voice of Healing was about half a century ago.
Hope this wasn't too long, and hope it was reasonably accurate. Again, I invite Elder Epley to clarify and correct if I am inaccurate. His father was involved with the "healing" ministry and some of his family members were involved with William Branham so he would have a better perspective than I would. I did attend a large Vineyard Church from late 1992 until early 2006. During that time I spent 5 years as a "pastor on call" and for most of that time I was involved with the prayer ministry of the church. I still attend a weekly prayer meeting held in the Chapel of that Vineyard Church and still am involved in their Home and Hospital Visitation Team.
pkdad
10-15-2008, 11:42 PM
The early church hierarchy was an "all hands on deck" situation as the five fold ministry begins with an apostle, especially Paul. As apostle to the unbelievers he must first evangelize, pastor, teach, and confirm a true prophet until those offices can be filled by Spirit filled and called men.
The Jewish priesthood was their pattern for the administration interim team until God called men were found and trained.
You had the High Priest(senior elder/bishop) the sanhedrin ( board of elders) then scribes (deacons) unfortunately boards and committees became impediments to strong five-fold ministry development. Paul when establishing a new church delegated apostolic authority to men like Titus to"set those things in order which are wanting and ordain elders in every city as I had appointed thee". (in Crete)
We see this microcosm in a small work and in the mission field. The Man of God wearing all the hats until the called are found and trained. As the elders and deacons are appointed then they are double hatted as teachers etc...
Many Pastors who did not pioneer the work always seem to have a problem with establishing proper church government where the laity rule. This then sends the 'pendulum' to far the other way and monarchy reigns instead of Theocracy. Most local assemblies today are in fact too dependent upon the Pastor and many never find their calling in those bodies. As to an Evangelist, this office is also missed in it's true five-fold purpose. An Evangelist today is usually a novice out of bible college or a semi-retired pastor who just wants to preach.
The example of Timothy shows us an Evangelist must not be a novice as he must "rebuke and exhort" and expound and teach sound doctrine. He like Timothy is an emissary of an Apostle. Phillip also at Samaria with miracles signs and wonders was used by God to proceed the apostles. I have sadly seen Pastors wives treat evangelists shamefully when they took apostolic authority over those things "wanting" claiming it was the Pastors job. No it's Gods Church and the Evangelist can "rebuke exhort and set in order."
Many Pastors wives mistakenly believe they are second in command and this sets up an entrance for the enemy to attack this weakness as "rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft". They usually hate prophets and perceive any men in the church with an anointing as a threat especially if she has a son as heir to the pulpit. These problems are far too common when an anointed five-fold ministry is not the order in Gods church.
On one forum (don't remember which one, I'm on several and get them mixed up) someone recommended Bro. Lee Stoneking's book "Five-Fold Ministry and Spiritual Insights." I ordered the book a few days ago from PPH. It came Friday. I don't know when I'll get to read it. I've got hundreds of books and many of those I have only partially read, and some I haven't read at all.
The book has several pages in the Forward written by Rev. Kenneth Haney, Rev Paul Price, Rev. T.W. Barnes, and Rev. Steve Willoughby.
This is what the late T.W. Barnes said in his forward:
"Thank you, Bro. Stoneking, for writing this great book. I read through every chapter the day I received it and not only enjoyed reading it, but believe every word you have written.
"Utilizing this five-fold ministry given in Ephesians 4:11-12 is the only way to perfect the saints of God. We know these gifts are to be in the church until Jesus comes because of the words written in 1 Corinthians 1:7: 'So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.'
"I feel this book is destined to stir the gifts in the ministry and they will flow throughout the church. According to Revelation 22:19, if we take away from the words of the Book, our part will be taken out of the Book of Life. My prayer is that every minister who reads this will let the gifts God has given them flow unhindered to the church.
"Your ministry, Brother Stoneking, has been a great example of the operation of these gifts. May God richly bless you and all who read this book."
Those are words of high praise and, from what I've heard and read, Bro. T.W. Barnes was a real man of God. I've read at least one of Bro. Barnes' books and read a biography of him that Sis. Freeman wrote. That quote from Bro. Barnes was from pages 13 and 14 of the Stoneking book.
Chapter one of the Stoneking book is called "Structural Foundation" and starts in page 25. On this page he says:
Structurally in the beginning:
Apostles: Governed
Prophets: Guided
Evangelists: Gathered
Pastors: Guarded
Teachers: Grounded
Looking further at the book, it's only 125 pages so maybe I'll get to read it in the next few days
[QUOTE=pkdad;610249]
The Jewish priesthood was their pattern for the administration interim team until God called men were found and trained.
You had the High Priest(senior elder/bishop) the sanhedrin ( board of elders) then scribes (deacons) unfortunately boards and committees became impediments to strong five-fold ministry development. QUOTE]
Supposing this is the case of how it should be, what authority and/or duty, if any, do the "board of elders" have concerning overseeing the church as in Acts 20:28, IYO?
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