Smaller is Better-A interesting Statistic

[Pastor Keith]

As a pastor of a new church plant, I have become all to familiar with all the church growth literature currently in Christendom, both from an Apostolic perspective and from what others in the larger Christian world have to say about, How to grow a church?

At times this is a very frustrating experience, for# of reasons, of which I won't list here. But I came across a specific book called Natural Church Development; the thesis is that Church Growth will happen naturally as long as people/pastors/saints don't mess with it. The key is building and facilitating 8 specific biotic (taken from nature) potentials into the church.

His research the most comprehensive done in history of the church (facts don't lie) it showed a # of amazing facts, many I won't share here but I thought I would share this one fact that his team discovered contrasting the converting power of smaller church versus the mega church. Read it for yourself.

"But couldn’t it be that the picture is different for really large churches (with more than 1000 at worship services)? While the smallest churches (with an average attendance of 51) typically won 32 new people in the last five years, the mega churches (with an average attendance of 2,856) won 112 new persons during the same time period.

In raw numbers, a single mega church won may more people than a single “mini-church.” If we remember, though, that the mega churches are 56 times the size of the “mini-churches,” then the following calculation expresses the potential of the two categories far more realistically.

If instead of a single church with 2,856 in worship we had 56 churches, each with 51 worshippers, these churches would, statistically, win 1,792 new people within five years – 16 times the number the mega church would win.
Thus we can conclude that the evangelistic effectiveness of mini-churches is statistically 1,600 percent greater than that of mega churches!"

Natural Church Development
A Guide to Eight Essential Qualities of Healthy Churches
By
Christian A. Schwarz
ChurchSmart Resources

[Sister Truth Seeker]

From my perspective....I like a smaller church...I think there is more unity when everyone knows each other.

In a large church it is easy for people to fall through the cracks and never be brought into the fold....


During the two years I was out of my church I went to a couple of church that were much larger...in both I felt like I could be in any function that drew a large crowd...in one of them I was not acknowleged in anyway....I would never want to go to either of them again.

My church always says hello to visitors and they are greeted with hand shakes from many!!!

[Nahum]

As a pastor of a new church plant, I have become all to familiar with all the church growth literature currently in Christendom, both from an Apostolic perspective and from what others in the larger Christian world have to say about, How to grow a church?

At times this is a very frustrating experience, for# of reasons, of which I won't list here. But I came across a specific book called Natural Church Development; the thesis is that Church Growth will happen naturally as long as people/pastors/saints don't mess with it. The key is building and facilitating 8 specific biotic (taken from nature) potentials into the church.

His research the most comprehensive done in history of the church (facts don't lie) it showed a # of amazing facts, many I won't share here but I thought I would share this one fact that his team discovered contrasting the converting power of smaller church versus the mega church. Read it for yourself.

"But couldn’t it be that the picture is different for really large churches (with more than 1000 at worship services)? While the smallest churches (with an average attendance of 51) typically won 32 new people in the last five years, the mega churches (with an average attendance of 2,856) won 112 new persons during the same time period.

In raw numbers, a single mega church won may more people than a single “mini-church.” If we remember, though, that the mega churches are 56 times the size of the “mini-churches,” then the following calculation expresses the potential of the two categories far more realistically.

If instead of a single church with 2,856 in worship we had 56 churches, each with 51 worshippers, these churches would, statistically, win 1,792 new people within five years – 16 times the number the mega church would win.
Thus we can conclude that the evangelistic effectiveness of mini-churches is statistically 1,600 percent greater than that of mega churches!"

Natural Church Development
A Guide to Eight Essential Qualities of Healthy Churches
By
Christian A. Schwarz
ChurchSmart Resources

Keith, this is a wonderful post. Sorry I didn't respond sooner.

This information is not surprising at all. It affirms what we knew, doesn't it?
People want church to have a "family" feel and environment. They want to go where someone knows their name and shares their life experiences.

Mega-church cannot replicate this feel. It's the difference between Wal-Mart and the corner drug store. Wal-Mart has a broader selection, but it's way cold and corporate.

[Chan]

Something else that is worth noting is that when the Jerusalem church was a mega church (having several thousand members), God sent along persecution to break up that church and the result was that the gospel was spread to other communities.

[Mr. Steinway]

As many of you know, I attend a mega church in Nashville.

I kind of wish our church only ran about 600-800. That way, you know most of the people, but they're all not neccessarily into your personal business.

I know very few of our church members personally! I know folks that were in our Sunday School classes, and those that sit around us each Sunday. I guess it's really kind of sad.

Our church is constantly seeing new visitors and members, but the back door seems to be just as active as the front door!

[Drama Queen]

From my perspective....I like a smaller church...I think there is more unity when everyone knows each other.

In a large church it is easy for people to fall through the cracks and never be brought into the fold....


During the two years I was out of my church I went to a couple of church that were much larger...in both I felt like I could be in any function that drew a large crowd...in one of them I was not acknowleged in anyway....I would never want to go to either of them again.

My church always says hello to visitors and they are greeted with hand shakes from many!!!




I personally like a larger church. But maybe that's because that's what I'm use too.

Even thou the POA is a large church, everyone does know everyone. You may not be best-buds with everyone... but at least you have a few choices on whom you hang with! That's one of the down sides to smaller churches... your limited on your "church" friends.

It's really hard to fall in the cracks at the POA because they are sooo organized and have people in place ready to get you involved and connected. I do realize that at most larger churches this is not always the case.

What can I say... THE POA ROCKS!!!
:bliss :bliss :bliss :bliss

[revrandy]

I personally like a larger church. But maybe that's because that's what I'm use too.

Even thou the POA is a large church, everyone does know everyone. You may not be best-buds with everyone... but at least you have a few choices on whom you hang with! That's one of the down sides to smaller churches... your limited on your "church" friends.

It's really hard to fall in the cracks at the POA because they are sooo organized and have people in place ready to get you involved and connected. I do realize that at most larger churches this is not always the case.

What can I say... THE POA ROCKS!!!
:bliss :bliss :bliss :bliss

I think the atmosphere & the attitude of the Church will always reflect the leadership it has...

I have never been to POA although I have freinds who have and they have told me that it seemed that Bro. Anthony & Sis. Mickey touched everybody at the service...

[Drama Queen]

I think the atmosphere & the attitude of the Church will always reflect the leadership it has...

I have never been to POA although I have freinds who have and they have told me that it seemed that Bro. Anthony & Sis. Mickey touched everybody at the service...

Your right... and they do! It truly is an unique church.

[Rhoni]

I love big churches...Jackson was the first "big church" that I was in and I loved it...I knew everyone and still practice the same habits I alwasy have...I walk in and go up and down each row and shake hands and speak with everyone.

I think it depends on your personality to decide which type of church is best for you.

I like programs, diversity, people, people, and more people.

Small churches tend to be clickish and small minded, Us four AND no more...I can't deal with it.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Mr. Steinway]

This is a true story. On Sunday late afternoon, Pastor Hardwick got married at a special wedding ceremony at the church. The church was packed!

Anyway....I ran into a couple that I had not seen in over five years. I said "Hi!", and at first they didn't recognize Mrs. Pianoman and myself!

I asked where they attend church these days! They said that they've NEVER LEFT!!!!!!!!! They attend the same servives as we do, but they sit on the opposite side of the auditorium! :killinme

[Pastor Keith]

I personally like a larger church. But maybe that's because that's what I'm use too.

Even thou the POA is a large church, everyone does know everyone. You may not be best-buds with everyone... but at least you have a few choices on whom you hang with! That's one of the down sides to smaller churches... your limited on your "church" friends.

It's really hard to fall in the cracks at the POA because they are sooo organized and have people in place ready to get you involved and connected. I do realize that at most larger churches this is not always the case.

What can I say... THE POA ROCKS!!!
:bliss :bliss :bliss :bliss


Christian Schwarz did say that there are large churches that are able to be quality churches, but they according to his research are the exceptions. I agree with you POA is one of those.

By the way the 8 qualities or characteristics that he measured/found in healthy growing churches are:

1.Empowering Leadership — Is our mission to gather helpers for one leader’s ministry or to release the ministry potential that is in the "helpers?"
2.Gift-oriented Ministry — Does the spiritual gifting of each individual fit the ministry task he or she performs?
3.Passionate Spirituality — How much do we inspire passion and enthusiasm for Christ and His cause?
4.Functional Structures — Do our internal structures foster growth and multiplication or hinder it?
5.Inspiring Worship — How much do our worship services help people get inspiration from the Lord?
6.Holistic Small Groups — How much do our small group ministries meet the spiritual, mental, and physical needs of individual believers?
7.Need-Oriented Evangelism — How much do we direct the gospel to the felt needs of the people we are ministering to?
8.Loving Relationships — How much does our church demonstrate love in action and deed?

[Rhoni]

Christian Schwarz did say that there are large churches that are able to be quality churches, but they according to his research are the exceptions. I agree with you POA is one of those.

By the way the 8 qualities or characteristics that he measured/found in healthy growing churches are:

1.Empowering Leadership — Is our mission to gather helpers for one leader’s ministry or to release the ministry potential that is in the "helpers?"
2.Gift-oriented Ministry — Does the spiritual gifting of each individual fit the ministry task he or she performs?
3.Passionate Spirituality — How much do we inspire passion and enthusiasm for Christ and His cause?
4.Functional Structures — Do our internal structures foster growth and multiplication or hinder it?
5.Inspiring Worship — How much do our worship services help people get inspiration from the Lord?
6.Holistic Small Groups — How much do our small group ministries meet the spiritual, mental, and physical needs of individual believers?
7.Need-Oriented Evangelism — How much do we direct the gospel to the felt needs of the people we are ministering to?
8.Loving Relationships — How much does our church demonstrate love in action and deed?


Great qualities for smaller churches who will grow with the above in place, as well as bigger churches who practice the same;)

Blessings, rhoni

[RevDWW]

POA's emphasis is connection. Connection to God, connection to community, and connection to each other. While you can't connect with everyone at a large church, you should be able to find like mined souls to connect with.

Poeple will stay if they find others to be connected with.

[Rhoni]

POA's emphasis is connection. Connection to God, connection to community, and connection to each other. While you can't connect with everyone at a large church, you should be able to find like mined souls to connect with.

Poeple will stay if they find others to be connected with.

:highfive AMEN!

[MrRight]

I think the atmosphere & the attitude of the Church will always reflect the leadership it has...

I have never been to POA although I have freinds who have and they have told me that it seemed that Bro. Anthony & Sis. Mickey touched everybody at the service...

That mst be what heppens when the pastor really loves the peolpe.



(what aer these red lines for when I type?)

[IAintMovin]

I know some guys that will be delighted to know that smaller is better - now they dont have to do anything.

Sorry I couldnt resist.

Good Info Keith

[RevDWW]

(what aer these red lines for when I type?)


Pssst that means "they're" watching you.........



















or you've spelled something worng....no....I guess it couldn't be the later.....:killinme

[ManOfWord]

That mst be what heppens when the pastor really loves the peolpe.



(what aer these red lines for when I type?)

When you type in the post window, if you mispsell a word, it becomes underlined in red so you know that it is not spelled right. Get that, not spelled RIGHT! :D

[MrRight]

When you type in the post window, if you mispsell a word, it becomes underlined in red so you know that it is not spelled right. Get that, not spelled RIGHT! :D

OK, I think I get it. I guess it dosnt help if you don't know how to spell the word thogh. I don't have time to guess all nite on the spelling!

[ManOfWord]

OK, I think I get it. I guess it dosnt help if you don't know how to spell the word thogh. I don't have time to guess all nite on the spelling!

Dude, get a dictionary! :D

[MrRight]

OK, I think I get it. I guess it dosnt help if you don't know how to spell the word thogh. I don't have time to guess all nite on the spelling!

I thought it woud be easier than that.

[MrRight]

Dude, get a dictionary! :D

Oops. I ment to quote this one. I thought it woud be esaier than that!

[ManOfWord]

Oops. I ment to quote this one. I thought it woud be esaier than that!

Yeah, that is pretty hard huh? :D

[IAintMovin]

Dude, get a dictionary! :D

Ya gotta know how to spell to look the word up to see if ya spelled it right......duhhh.....:D :D

[ManOfWord]

Ya gotta know how to spell to look the word up to see if ya spelled it right......duhhh.....:D :D

Yeah, obviously Mr Right isn't "right" about everything!! :D

[RevDWW]

Ya gotta know how to spell to look the word up to see if ya spelled it right......duhhh.....:D :D

That always ticked me off to be told to go look up the word in the dictionary when I asked someone how to spell it. If I could spell it to look it up I would need the dictionary now would I?

[Rhoni]

That always ticked me off to be told to go look up the word in the dictionary when I asked someone how to spell it. If I could spell it to look it up I would need the dictionary now would I?


:highfive This is so true!

[Chan]

That always ticked me off to be told to go look up the word in the dictionary when I asked someone how to spell it. If I could spell it to look it up I would need the dictionary now would I?They're trying to get you to use your brain. Many people are too lazy to bother using their brains for such things as figuring out how to spell words. People who tell you to go look up the word in a dictionary are trying to keep you from being one of those lazy people.

[Chan]

When you type in the post window, if you mispsell a word, it becomes underlined in red so you know that it is not spelled right. Get that, not spelled RIGHT! :DOr at least that the word is not in the system's dictionary.

[KwaiQ]

Excellent. Our church is small too. We have just started an aggressive outreach program and have won 25 people since Christmas Eve services last year.

All were previously "unchurched" people.

[Titus2Mom]

I asked where they attend church these days! They said that they've NEVER LEFT!!!!!!!!! They attend the same servives as we do, but they sit on the opposite side of the auditorium! :killinme

I had the same thing happen to me. I had little children, so I always sat near the door on the side in case I needed to step out with a crying baby. I *always* sat there. About 3 years later, I decided to sit on the other side of the church, and people were coming up to me, introducing themselves to me, "Oh thank you for coming, we are happy to see you!" You should have seen the looks on their faces when I told them how long I had been there....every single service.

[JosephConroy]

OK, I think I get it. I guess it dosnt help if you don't know how to spell the word thogh. I don't have time to guess all nite on the spelling!

You know, my problem is NOT spelling, but my typing is abysmal!

So I stopped being lazy. I use the yahoo deal as my starting point, and they give you a tool bar at the top of the page. One of it's features is "Spell Check" (The icon looks like a mini "ABC with a check next to it." Simply hit that and it will do the same thing, change all the misspelled words to red. BUT the nice thing about spell check is that it will give you as you click on each misspelled word the different words with the Correct spelling that you may be wanting to write. then just click on that and it corrects it! Now if I can just keep taking my own advice, because I do tend to not only be a horrible typist but a lazy one at that!

Joseph Conroy

[JTULLOCK]

A big church is good and that is what I am used too as well. I have been to both big and little churches. I have seen and heard it said that you can fall through the cracks at a large church. While that does happen I think that is almost an excuse at times to try and help discredit the larger churches. I went to a good size church in TN and now a good size one here in AZ. The thing about big churches is you may not know everybody, but you should know somebody. If you go to a larger church and you do not know anyone then it is your fault, IMO. Many if not all of these larger churches have alot of 'things' in action to keep people from falling through the cracks as it were.

I know that as Pianoman said that sometimes the back door is just as open as the front one. That does happen in smaller churches too. No church can hang on to everyone that walks through the front door. I have seen Anthony Mangun say several times if they just reached around half of the 'backsliders' then the church would grow by almost half. I also know a smaller church I attended could not hold on to many people. They were in a college town and the leadership and most of the saints were older. So it does go both ways, IMO. But I vote for a little larger church. I could go to CC in Nashville and the country church too, but that is me. I do not know a stranger...at least I am told that.