View Full Version : What is your greatest ability?
I have been thinking about peoples ability as it relates to God and service in the church. This Sunday my pastor made a comment in his sermon that has really been with me, kind of connecting the dots. He said that often times you find someone with less ability working in a church while a real talent sits on the pew. The difference is one stepped up.
That got me thinking about the bible and the people God used. Samuel was an orphan. David was a kid with much more talented, stronger, OLDER brothers. Gideon was a nobody afraid of his own shadow. Peter was “an ignorant and unlearned man”….and a loudmouth coward…. Paul was a murderer….What was it about these guys that made them so used? I think really their common ability was availability.
I have been thinking about peoples ability as it relates to God and service in the church. This Sunday my pastor made a comment in his sermon that has really been with me, kind of connecting the dots. He said that often times you find someone with less ability working in a church while a real talent sits on the pew. The difference is one stepped up.
That got me thinking about the bible and the people God used. Samuel was an orphan. David was a kid with much more talented, stronger, OLDER brothers. Gideon was a nobody afraid of his own shadow. Peter was “an ignorant and unlearned man”….and a loudmouth coward…. Paul was a murderer….What was it about these guys that made them so used? I think really their common ability was availability.I think there might be more to it than their availability. I think it has to do with something Paul had mentioned in 1 Corinthians about how God did not call many wise according to the wisdom of the world, etc. but, instead, called those whom the world would not consider particularly capable, talented, etc. Why did He do this? So that we would not be able to boast.
Rhoni
02-12-2007, 03:31 PM
I have been thinking about peoples ability as it relates to God and service in the church. This Sunday my pastor made a comment in his sermon that has really been with me, kind of connecting the dots. He said that often times you find someone with less ability working in a church while a real talent sits on the pew. The difference is one stepped up.
That got me thinking about the bible and the people God used. Samuel was an orphan. David was a kid with much more talented, stronger, OLDER brothers. Gideon was a nobody afraid of his own shadow. Peter was “an ignorant and unlearned man”….and a loudmouth coward…. Paul was a murderer….What was it about these guys that made them so used? I think really their common ability was availability.
I disagree.
Rhoni
02-12-2007, 03:32 PM
I think there might be more to it than their availability. I think it has to do with something Paul had mentioned in 1 Corinthians about how God did not call many wise according to the wisdom of the world, etc. but, instead, called those whom the world would not consider particularly capable, talented, etc. Why did He do this? So that we would not be able to boast.
I disagree.
I disagree.Would you care to elaborate as to why you disagree?
Rhoni
02-12-2007, 03:35 PM
Would you care to elaborate as to why you disagree?
If you promise not to get ugly with me...I can't take any more...it has been a difficult month and will not be over until March 18.
Sincerely, Rhoni
whollyHis
02-12-2007, 03:37 PM
I have to say that I disagree with these posts, also...but, I won't go into WHY on here- I'll just get 'blasted' by the pastors...
Rhoni
02-12-2007, 03:40 PM
I have to say that I disagree with these posts, also...but, I won't go into WHY on here- I'll just get 'blasted' by the pastors...
Agreed! I don't want to get blasted but have started my own thread on the subject.
Blessings, Rhoni
If you promise not to get ugly with me...I can't take any more...it has been a difficult month and will not be over until March 18.
Sincerely, RhoniIn asking if you'd care to elaborate, I was thinking you might come up with something the rest of us haven't considered.
Rhoni
02-12-2007, 03:44 PM
In asking if you'd care to elaborate, I was thinking you might come up with something the rest of us haven't considered.
I think that God took the individual's best quality, Paul's was education, Peter's was boldness and determination, and Matthews was finance, and David's was his knowledge that through Christ anything can be accomplished. He took the tools each acquired through their trades and channelled them into usefulness in the kingdom.
Blessings, Rhoni
BoredOutOfMyMind
02-12-2007, 03:44 PM
I have to say that I disagree with these posts, also...but, I won't go into WHY on here- I'll just get 'blasted' by the pastors...
If we are going to simply disagree, we will never have any discussion.
I think they both had merit. Many on the pew are unwilling to take a part. Sir Ferd, are there more points to the lesson. It sounds like a winner.
:thumbsup
Malvaro
02-12-2007, 03:45 PM
What is your greatest ability?
The ones that I use.... I may not be completely proficient in areas, but I am willing to try....
whollyHis
02-12-2007, 03:54 PM
If we are going to simply disagree, we will never have any discussion.
I think they both had merit. Many on the pew are unwilling to take a part. Sir Ferd, are there more points to the lesson. It sounds like a winner.
:thumbsup
Well, for one thing- I believe that the pews are full of folk that are unwilling to take part, because they are tired of being passed over for the small nuclei that do it all. I know, for a fact of folk that yearn to be used, but are passed over, because they are not part of the 'group' that does it all.
I know what you all are gonna say- that I am bitter against leadership- that is SOOOOO far from the truth. But, I observe and I can see the trend in my local assembly...it hurts me to see folk that have so much to offer, just sit and rot in the pew...
You cannot paint with such a broad brush...there are good saints out there that WANT to be used...believe me.
If we are going to simply disagree, we will never have any discussion.
I think they both had merit. Many on the pew are unwilling to take a part. Sir Ferd, are there more points to the lesson. It sounds like a winner.
:thumbsup
Not really. bottom line, Paul was smarter than everybody else but if he decided not to play, he wouldnt have changed the world.... Sure he changed the world because he was both brilliant and a zelot....and more importanlty anointed by God. And sure his starting point was miraculous....but there have been many who started out due to a miraculous encounter only to fall. and there have been many who were brilliant who chose a different path.
I am convinced that I am right about 1 thing. NOTHING gets done for God if the doer wasnt first available.
Rhoni
02-12-2007, 03:56 PM
My greatest ability is to organize and delegate;)!
Blessings, Rhoni
whollyHis
02-12-2007, 03:57 PM
Not really. bottom line, Paul was smarter than everybody else but if he decided not to play, he wouldnt have changed the world.... Sure he changed the world because he was both brilliant and a zelot....and more importanlty anointed by God. And sure his starting point was miraculous....but there have been many who started out due to a miraculous encounter only to fall. and there have been many who were brilliant who chose a different path.
I am convinced that I am right about 1 thing. NOTHING gets done for God if the doer wasnt first available.
But, the way church government is set up today, you cannot do anything unless you are allowed to. Availability is just the FIRST requirement- there are many hoops to jump through after that...*smile*
Rhoni
02-12-2007, 03:59 PM
Not really. bottom line, Paul was smarter than everybody else but if he decided not to play, he wouldnt have changed the world.... Sure he changed the world because he was both brilliant and a zelot....and more importanlty anointed by God. And sure his starting point was miraculous....but there have been many who started out due to a miraculous encounter only to fall. and there have been many who were brilliant who chose a different path.
I am convinced that I am right about 1 thing. NOTHING gets done for God if the doer wasnt first available.
But, the way church government is set up today, you cannot do anything unless you are allowed to. Availability is just the FIRST requirement- there are many hoops to jump through after that...*smile*
Yep...you have to humble yourself to clean a toilet before you can hand your credentials on the wall! LOL:ranting
whollyHis
02-12-2007, 04:01 PM
[QUOTE=whollyHis;3389]
Yep...you have to humble yourself to clean a toilet before you can hand your credentials on the wall! LOL:ranting
hehhee...true.
AmazingGrace
02-12-2007, 04:03 PM
My greatest ability is to organize and delegate;)!
Blessings, Rhoni
LOL.... wanna come help me organize my house when I get one?!?! LOL
I am soooooooo not organized lately!
Well, for one thing- I believe that the pews are full of folk that are unwilling to take part, because they are tired of being passed over for the small nuclei that do it all. I know, for a fact of folk that yearn to be used, but are passed over, because they are not part of the 'group' that does it all.
I know what you all are gonna say- that I am bitter against leadership- that is SOOOOO far from the truth. But, I observe and I can see the trend in my local assembly...it hurts me to see folk that have so much to offer, just sit and rot in the pew...
You cannot paint with such a broad brush...there are good saints out there that WANT to be used...believe me.
I dont think you are bitter at all....
Now let me tell you the side of that little nuclei that are doing everything. Friend, I am in that group in my church. You know what? When we get done cleaning up after the rest of the church came, enjoyed, then left. we sit there TIERD wondering why those enjoyers didnt pitch in. The fact is, that small group that is doing everything arent doing it because they dont want you to have fun. They are doing it, because you arent.
Dont blame me for getting to church early to get things set up, pray and get ready for the day. Dont blame me for spending hours each week prepairing to teach a sunday school lesson. Blame yourself for not telling the pastor you need a job. Blame yourself for letting someone else clean the bathrooms.
the reason that small group of people are the "inner circle" is because they are the ones the Pastor KNOWS will get the job done. If you arent in that group, there is a better than zero chance, you havent joined in, showed up, stayed untill the lights got turned out.
You didnt go to the Pastor and ASK if you could cut the grass, teach a class or help with a dinner.
well I just dumped on you. Im sorry. make yourself available and before long, you will be longing for a pew and wondering why those other folk are just sitting there enjoying when you are working.
Rhoni
02-12-2007, 04:05 PM
LOL.... wanna come help me organize my house when I get one?!?! LOL
I am soooooooo not organized lately!
I'll help and instruct you exactly where to put everything and how to put it...I'll lead and delegate;)!
Blessings, Rhoni
whollyHis
02-12-2007, 04:11 PM
I dont think you are bitter at all....
Now let me tell you the side of that little nuclei that are doing everything. Friend, I am in that group in my church. You know what? When we get done cleaning up after the rest of the church came, enjoyed, then left. we sit there TIERD wondering why those enjoyers didnt pitch in. The fact is, that small group that is doing everything arent doing it because they dont want you to have fun. They are doing it, because you arent.
Dont blame me for getting to church early to get things set up, pray and get ready for the day. Dont blame me for spending hours each week prepairing to teach a sunday school lesson. Blame yourself for not telling the pastor you need a job. Blame yourself for letting someone else clean the bathrooms.
the reason that small group of people are the "inner circle" is because they are the ones the Pastor KNOWS will get the job done. If you arent in that group, there is a better than zero chance, you havent joined in, showed up, stayed untill the lights got turned out.
You didnt go to the Pastor and ASK if you could cut the grass, teach a class or help with a dinner.
well I just dumped on you. Im sorry. make yourself available and before long, you will be longing for a pew and wondering why those other folk are just sitting there enjoying when you are working.
Whoa, Nellie...this isn't about ME. I have cleaned that entire church, alonbe, for four years...and mowed the five acres it sits on...don't go there with me.
I have no interest in doing ANYTHING. I am talking about others that have cried and told me of their frustrated desire to be used for the Kingdom...they HAVE asked to be put to work...they HAVE asked for sunday school classes...
I get sooo tired of martyr attitudes..."Poor me...no one else will do this- guess I'll have to...*sigh*" This is why I didn't want to get involved in this topic...sore spot with sooo many...
Carry on...I'll observe from afar...*smile*
Whoa, Nellie...this isn't about ME. I have cleaned that entire church, alonbe, for four years...and mowed the five acres it sits on...don't go there with me.
I have no interest in doing ANYTHING. I am talking about others that have cried and told me of their frustrated desire to be used for the Kingdom...they HAVE asked to be put to work...they HAVE asked for sunday school classes...
I get sooo tired of martyr attitudes..."Poor me...no one else will do this- guess I'll have to...*sigh*" This is why I didn't want to get involved in this topic...sore spot with sooo many...
Carry on...I'll observe from afar...*smile*
well there you have it. One more example in a very long list of a Pentecost I have never come in contact with.
I promise, some of you people tell a story of Pentecost that might as well me from another planet than the Pentecost I have known all of my 37 years.
RevDWW
02-12-2007, 04:16 PM
Stand up and step up.
Stand up when the call goes out for volunteers.
Step up when no one else wants the job.
It won't be long before your plate will be full.
Been there, done that, wore out the tee shirts.:heeheehee
RevDWW
02-12-2007, 04:18 PM
well there you have it. One more example in a very long list of a Pentecost I have never come in contact with.
I promise, some of you people tell a story of Pentecost that might as well me from another planet than the Pentecost I have known all of my 37 years.
That's because you're in that "group"...............:killinme
whollyHis
02-12-2007, 04:19 PM
well there you have it. One more example in a very long list of a Pentecost I have never come in contact with.
I promise, some of you people tell a story of Pentecost that might as well me from another planet than the Pentecost I have known all of my 37 years.
Brother...you are truly blessed. I mean that sincerely. I read pastor's posts on here, and I have to wonder if it's all just a 'front'. So much is far removed from what I have experienced...my heart yearns for some of what I have read...thank God everyday for the wonderful example that you have been privileged to experience...*smile*
[QUOTE]
But, the way church government is set up today, you cannot do anything unless you are allowed to. Availability is just the FIRST requirement- there are many hoops to jump through after that...*smile*
In some cases this is true. God bless the leader who has learned the secret of leading and delegating.
whollyHis
02-12-2007, 04:20 PM
[QUOTE=whollyHis;3389]
In some cases this is true. God bless the leader who has learned the secret of leading and delegating.
RIGHT!!!!
That's because you're in that "group"...............:killinme
you know, I am actually thinking of one person in my church who has complained that they dont get to do anything because of "that click"
but when push comes to shove, and special attention is made to get them involved, they beg off. not this weekend, not that job.
but then there are these new converts that come in, get the HG and get involved in everything while our one complainer who "isnt allowed" sits.
Brother...you are truly blessed. I mean that sincerely. I read pastor's posts on here, and I have to wonder if it's all just a 'front'. So much is far removed from what I have experienced...my heart yearns for some of what I have read...thank God everyday for the wonderful example that you have been privileged to experience...*smile*
I am sorry for you. I have to go "jump" with my 2 year old. Please do me one favor and go back and fix your quotes.
well there you have it. One more example in a very long list of a Pentecost I have never come in contact with.
I promise, some of you people tell a story of Pentecost that might as well me from another planet than the Pentecost I have known all of my 37 years.
It is so, Ferd, in some places. One may be available but not welcomed.
However, that is no excuse for not doing. There are many things...many areas of service in the Kingdom that do not require permission as it were or credentials.
The ministry of helps...I don't need someone to give me permission to cook a meal for the sick and shut-in, or pitch in and help clean up after a church dinner or function.
Then there's the ministry or gift of encouraging...to encourage means to give courage, confidence and hope...I don't need a license to send a card or make a call.
Rhoni
02-12-2007, 04:28 PM
It is so, Ferd, in some places. One may be available but not welcomed.
However, that is no excuse for not doing. There are many things...many areas of service in the Kingdom that do not require permission as it were or credentials.
The ministry of helps...I don't need someone to give me permission to cook a meal for the sick and shut-in, or pitch in and help clean up after a church dinner or function.
Then there's the ministry or gift of encouraging...to encourage means to give courage, confidence and hope...I don't need a license to send a card or make a call.
I agree...but those with licenses don't need to be cleaning the church or cooking meals...they need to be doing what they are equipped to do;)!
Blessings, Rhoni
P.S. This is not to say that if the need arose that those with credentials and licenses wouldn't chip in;)!
Newman
02-12-2007, 04:36 PM
I think that God took the individual's best quality, Paul's was education, Peter's was boldness and determination, and Matthews was finance, and David's was his knowledge that through Christ anything can be accomplished. He took the tools each acquired through their trades and channelled them into usefulness in the kingdom.
Blessings, Rhoni
Wow. I never quite saw it that way before. Great post! :ty
Newman
02-12-2007, 04:37 PM
Not really. bottom line, Paul was smarter than everybody else but if he decided not to play, he wouldnt have changed the world.... Sure he changed the world because he was both brilliant and a zelot....and more importanlty anointed by God. And sure his starting point was miraculous....but there have been many who started out due to a miraculous encounter only to fall. and there have been many who were brilliant who chose a different path.
I am convinced that I am right about 1 thing. NOTHING gets done for God if the doer wasnt first available.
Great point also! You guys are on a roll. ;)
Rhoni
02-12-2007, 04:38 PM
Wow. I never quite saw it that way before. Great post! :ty
*speechless in Dallas*
RevDWW
02-12-2007, 04:39 PM
It is so, Ferd, in some places. One may be available but not welcomed.
However, that is no excuse for not doing. There are many things...many areas of service in the Kingdom that do not require permission as it were or credentials.
The ministry of helps...I don't need someone to give me permission to cook a meal for the sick and shut-in, or pitch in and help clean up after a church dinner or function.
Then there's the ministry or gift of encouraging...to encourage means to give courage, confidence and hope...I don't need a license to send a card or make a call.
Good words!
There is always somthing to do in "The Church". Even things you don't have to tell anyone about. Like leaving a bag of groceries on a needy doorstep or sending a few bucks or a gift card to some needy single mom.
I once heard a minister teach "don't ask God to use you, but rather ask Him to make you usable".
This whole Chritian life is about doing!
RevDWW
02-12-2007, 04:58 PM
I have two almost super human abilities.
Killing conversation on threads.
Being ignored and thus not killing threads..........:killinme :killinme :killinme :killinme
Rhoni
02-12-2007, 05:06 PM
I have two almost super human abilities.
Killing conversation on threads.
Being ignored and thus not killing threads..........:killinme :killinme :killinme :killinme
:drawguns
J/K you're doing better!
Blessings, Rhoni
RevDWW
02-12-2007, 05:12 PM
When someone says you're doing better, what does that imply? And Is that supposed to be of comfort?
:killinme :killinme :killinme :killinme :killinme
Nahum
02-12-2007, 05:28 PM
I have sifted through this thread in utter amazement.
As a pastor of a small church, with very little help, I have had it up to my eyeballs with people complain about their lack of use! HELLO PEOPLE!!!!
There are churches who would love to have help. Maybe you aren't burdened, just dissatisfied - there is a big difference.
I have had many young ministers call and whine to me about their supposed lack of use. For quite a while I allowed mysef to be a sounding board to them. I felt sorry for them.
But over time I recognized the problem for what it was. They were not burdened for the lost, they were dissatisfied with their ministry locale.
When a man or woman has a burden they will eventually act upon it.
They will step out into their calling.
Those who are just dissatisfied will never amount to anything. They just need something to complain about.
Apostolic Kitty
02-12-2007, 05:44 PM
That got me thinking about the bible and the people God used. Samuel was an orphan. David was a kid with much more talented, stronger, OLDER brothers. Gideon was a nobody afraid of his own shadow. Peter was “an ignorant and unlearned man”….and a loudmouth coward…. Paul was a murderer….What was it about these guys that made them so used? I think really their common ability was availability.
I definitley agree that the common thread in all of these men was that they were available to be used. God does not force His will on people who have chosen to shut Him out.
I think there might be more to it than their availability. I think it has to do with something Paul had mentioned in 1 Corinthians about how God did not call many wise according to the wisdom of the world, etc. but, instead, called those whom the world would not consider particularly capable, talented, etc. Why did He do this? So that we would not be able to boast.
God most definitely takes those that are available and anoints them to do tasks that do not come natural to them.
I think that God took the individual's best quality, Paul's was education, Peter's was boldness and determination, and Matthews was finance, and David's was his knowledge that through Christ anything can be accomplished. He took the tools each acquired through their trades and channelled them into usefulness in the kingdom.
God definitely will take a person (who is willing) and use the abilities they have that come natural to them. He will also use the talents the available person has learned.
Thing is I think it's all of these things...
Rhoni
02-12-2007, 05:46 PM
AK...You are a sweetie to tie them all in together...and affirm all...great talent!
Blessings, Rhoni
Apostolic Kitty
02-12-2007, 05:47 PM
But, the way church government is set up today, you cannot do anything unless you are allowed to. Availability is just the FIRST requirement- there are many hoops to jump through after that...*smile*
Sad to say, but you are right about this.
Apostolic Kitty
02-12-2007, 05:51 PM
Whoa, Nellie...this isn't about ME. I have cleaned that entire church, alonbe, for four years...and mowed the five acres it sits on...don't go there with me.
I have no interest in doing ANYTHING. I am talking about others that have cried and told me of their frustrated desire to be used for the Kingdom...they HAVE asked to be put to work...they HAVE asked for sunday school classes...
What I don't get is why those people who were crying on your shoulder did not show up to help you cut the grass and clean the church...
Apostolic Kitty
02-12-2007, 05:56 PM
*speechless in Dallas*
I have two almost super human abilities.
Killing conversation on threads.
Being ignored and thus not killing threads..........:killinme :killinme :killinme :killinme
Somebody say something??? :tease
I have been thinking about peoples ability as it relates to God and service in the church. This Sunday my pastor made a comment in his sermon that has really been with me, kind of connecting the dots. He said that often times you find someone with less ability working in a church while a real talent sits on the pew. The difference is one stepped up.
That got me thinking about the bible and the people God used. Samuel was an orphan. David was a kid with much more talented, stronger, OLDER brothers. Gideon was a nobody afraid of his own shadow. Peter was “an ignorant and unlearned man”….and a loudmouth coward…. Paul was a murderer….What was it about these guys that made them so used? I think really their common ability was availability.
My take... Many leaders and Pastors take the Hitler and Napoleon leadership. Never use or promote someone that has more ability than u.
How I know this to be true. I work in professionial technical sales.
Everytime a manager has a great performer they get nervous.
Many of the managers can't talk or sell themselves out of a paperbag.
next time you look over and see a more qualified person sitting in the pew.
Maybe you might realize they have it harder in the church.
I know it...... I have seen it a million times.
When my Dad taught at Mark Hanby's bible college in the mid 1970's.
When he preached and Mark Hanby was out of town.
The main leaders told my Dad he could not do the alter call after he preached.
Because he was starting to have to big of a following.
Nathan Eckstadt
Rhoni
02-12-2007, 05:59 PM
My take... Many leaders and Pastors take the Hitler and Napoleon leadership. Never use or promote someone that has more ability than u.
How I know this to be true. I work in professionial technical sales.
Everytime a manager has a great performer they get nervous.
Many of the managers can't talk or sell themselves out of a paperbag.
next time you look over and see a more qualified person sitting in the pew.
Maybe you might realize they have it harder in the church.
I know it...... I have seen it a million times.
When my Dad taught at Mark Hanby's bible college in the mid 1970's.
When he preached and Mark Hanby was out of town.
The main leaders told my Dad he could not do the alter call after he preached.
Because he was starting to have to big of a following.
Nathan Eckstadt Bro. Eckstadt,
Please read my thread on how to grow churches...I value your opinion.
Blessings, Rhoni
I have two almost super human abilities.
Killing conversation on threads.
Being ignored and thus not killing threads..........:killinme :killinme :killinme :killinme
great post!
My take... Many leaders and Pastors take the Hitler and Napoleon leadership. Never use or promote someone that has more ability than u.
How I know this to be true. I work in professionial technical sales.
Everytime a manager has a great performer they get nervous.
Many of the managers can't talk or sell themselves out of a paperbag.
next time you look over and see a more qualified person sitting in the pew.
Maybe you might realize they have it harder in the church.
I know it...... I have seen it a million times.
When my Dad taught at Mark Hanby's bible college in the mid 1970's.
When he preached and Mark Hanby was out of town.
The main leaders told my Dad he could not do the alter call after he preached.
Because he was starting to have to big of a following.
Nathan Eckstadt
first, I was talking about people being available to God not some preacher..... second, this is the second time ive seen someone compare preachers to hitler. that was a knucleheaded thing to say. sometimes you say things that are great. this one was kind of knucleheaded. Napoliean I get. Hitler not so much.
LadyChocolate
02-12-2007, 06:35 PM
My take... Many leaders and Pastors take the Hitler and Napoleon leadership. Never use or promote someone that has more ability than u.
How I know this to be true. I work in professionial technical sales.
Everytime a manager has a great performer they get nervous.
Nathan Eckstadt
I, too, have seen this and it is a very sad, sad situation each time I see it. I have watched ministers , men called of God, just minister in the local church with the pastor saying, "one day you might be out there on your own". And they keep dangling the carrot before the rabbit and lead them on but never have any intention on letting them go. Sad !!! so you have 15-20 "young preachers" sitting on pews for 10-20 years...and the pastor keeps saying, "there's still more I need to teach you on leadership'" ...:ranting
Nahum
02-12-2007, 06:44 PM
I, too, have seen this and it is a very sad, sad situation each time I see it. I have watched ministers , men called of God, just minister in the local church with the pastor saying, "one day you might be out there on your own". And they keep dangling the carrot before the rabbit and lead them on but never have any intention on letting them go. Sad !!! so you have 15-20 "young preachers" sitting on pews for 10-20 years...and the pastor keeps saying, "there's still more I need to teach you on leadership'" ...:ranting
Hello!
Who in their right mind would sit for 10-20 years? I sincerely doubt they are God-called. Don't put it all on the pastor, if some guy is stupid enough to remain inactive for that long, he has no business being in a pulpit.
Real burdens require discomfort and movement.
I don't buy what you guys are selling. :vomit
Hitler? Napoleon? Whatever! :beatdeadhorse
How about the pansies that are to weak-kneed to step out on their own?
LadyChocolate
02-12-2007, 06:51 PM
Hello!
Who in their right mind would sit for 10-20 years? I sincerely doubt they are God-called. Don't put it all on the pastor, if some guy is stupid enough to remain inactive for that long, he has no business being in a pulpit.
Real burdens require discomfort and movement.
I don't buy what you guys are selling. :vomit
Hitler? Napoleon? Whatever! :beatdeadhorse
How about the pansies that are to weak-kneed to step out on their own?
you really don't know where some people come from. There are some, hopefully few, but there are some pastors out there who don't let their young preachers go....And they will use fear to control their saints so they don't leave. They are the norm, but I've met them....And when men who God calling them leave, their name is smeared before the church even though they gave everything to that church...... guess you've never seen this before......
Hello!
Who in their right mind would sit for 10-20 years? I sincerely doubt they are God-called. Don't put it all on the pastor, if some guy is stupid enough to remain inactive for that long, he has no business being in a pulpit.
Real burdens require discomfort and movement.
I don't buy what you guys are selling. :vomit
Hitler? Napoleon? Whatever! :beatdeadhorse
How about the pansies that are to weak-kneed to step out on their own?
Perhaps we shouldn't be so hard here, PP...we have no way of knowing what is actually going on in a given situation. When one is trusting that the man of God has the mind of God, it is a hard thing to go against.
It is easy to say what we would do when we are not in that position...JMHO...;)
Nahum
02-12-2007, 06:57 PM
you really don't know where some people come from. There are some, hopefully few, but there are some pastors out there who don't let their young preachers go....And they will use fear to control their saints so they don't leave. They are the norm, but I've met them....And when men who God calling them leave, their name is smeared before the church even though they gave everything to that church...... guess you've never seen this before......
So he responds out of fear?
That, my Sister, is a cult! Run as far away as possible!
Who cares if his name is smeared? Time proves all things.
Tell him to get some chutzpah and do his own thing!
LadyChocolate
02-12-2007, 06:57 PM
Perhaps we shouldn't be so hard here, PP...we have no way of knowing what is actually going on in a given situation. When one is trusting that the man of God has the mind of God, it is a hard thing to go against.
It is easy to say what we would do when we are not in that position...JMHO...;)
That is true! When you submit to a man of God and let them pastor you, you feel like they are going to get the mind of God with you.......and they use the "submission" part of the bible to keep people where they want them....I have actually heard preachers say that the man of God hears from God for the saints, including the "called" preachers. So if you feel direction from God and the man of God doesn't , he considers you out of the will of God if you leave because he doesnt' see it..... GET IT!!!!
LadyChocolate
02-12-2007, 06:58 PM
So he responds out of fear?
That, my Sister, is a cult! Run as far away as possible!
Who cares if his name is smeared? Time proves all things.
Tell him to get some chutzpah and do his own thing!
I hear ya!!! :bliss
Nahum
02-12-2007, 06:59 PM
Perhaps we shouldn't be so hard here, PP...we have no way of knowing what is actually going on in a given situation. When one is trusting that the man of God has the mind of God, it is a hard thing to go against.
It is easy to say what we would do when we are not in that position...JMHO...;)
Some trust in men, some trust in horses.....
Can you finish it?
Sounds like he is looking for a calling from his pastor rather than Jesus.
He needs to get out of there.
I'm not being to hard Barb, just being honest. I have been where he is at.
Nahum
02-12-2007, 07:02 PM
That is true! When you submit to a man of God and let them pastor you, you feel like they are going to get the mind of God with you.......and they use the "submission" part of the bible to keep people where they want them....I have actually heard preachers say that the man of God hears from God for the saints, including the "called" preachers. So if you feel direction from God and the man of God doesn't , he considers you out of the will of God if you leave because he doesnt' see it..... GET IT!!!!
Listen, when you post like this it gives all of us pastors a bad rap.
If God called a man or woman somewhere, they had better get to going.
Men are fallible, God isn't.
Quit blaming the pastor, those who are called have a responsibility to be somewhere where that call can be developed.
These sort of pastors are the exception - not the rule.
LadyChocolate
02-12-2007, 07:03 PM
Some trust in men, some trust in horses.....
Can you finish it?
Sounds like he is looking for a calling from his pastor rather than Jesus.
He needs to get out of there.
I'm not being to hard Barb, just being honest. I have been where he is at.
I'm very sensitive too issues like this. I've seen a lot of people hurt from these situations and many lose their soul because they don't know how to rightly divide the word of God and man....
RevDWW
02-12-2007, 07:06 PM
Hello!
Who in their right mind would sit for 10-20 years? I sincerely doubt they are God-called. Don't put it all on the pastor, if some guy is stupid enough to remain inactive for that long, he has no business being in a pulpit.
Real burdens require discomfort and movement.
I don't buy what you guys are selling. :vomit
Hitler? Napoleon? Whatever! :beatdeadhorse
How about the pansies that are to weak-kneed to step out on their own?
What if it was ingrained into these ministers that they should never ask for an opportunity, it will come when God allows?
LadyChocolate
02-12-2007, 07:06 PM
Listen, when you post like this it gives all of us pastors a bad rap.
If God called a man or woman somewhere, they had better get to going.
Men are fallible, God isn't.
Quit blaming the pastor, those who are called have a responsibility to be somewhere where that call can be developed.
These sort of pastors are the exception - not the rule.
My sincere apologies....as I said, it is not the norm. In fact, I never knew how abnormal they were until we left!
Nahum
02-12-2007, 07:07 PM
I'm very sensitive too issues like this. I've seen a lot of people hurt from these situations and many lose their soul because they don't know how to rightly divide the word of God and man....
I've seen the same thing.
Been there.
Done that.
Bought the t-shirt.
But sitting somewhere in mortal fear of your soul being lost because you want to be used? I don't believe it!
If you want to be used of God, submit - or remove somewhere where you can. I would never submit to selfish and controlling leadership.
My pastor wants what is best for ME and my relationship with God, not HIM.
RevDWW
02-12-2007, 07:08 PM
I've seen the same thing.
Been there.
Done that.
Bought the t-shirt.
But sitting somewhere in mortal fear of your soul being lost because you want to be used? I don't believe it!
If you want to be used of God, submit - or remove somewhere where you can. I would never submit to selfish and controlling leadership.
My pastor wants what is best for ME and my relationship with God, not HIM.You even had to buy your own tee shirt? How sad........:killinme
Listen, when you post like this it gives all of us pastors a bad rap.
If God called a man or woman somewhere, they had better get to going.
Men are fallible, God isn't.
Quit blaming the pastor, those who are called have a responsibility to be somewhere where that call can be developed.
These sort of pastors are the exception - not the rule.
I didn't take her posts that way...the fact is not everyone pastors the same way.
LadyChocolate
02-12-2007, 07:11 PM
I've seen the same thing.
Been there.
Done that.
Bought the t-shirt.
But sitting somewhere in mortal fear of your soul being lost because you want to be used? I don't believe it!
If you want to be used of God, submit - or remove somewhere where you can. I would never submit to selfish and controlling leadership.
My pastor wants what is best for ME and my relationship with God, not HIM.
We left....but not without pain...Some close friends wouldn't even talk to us because of things that had been said, and truthfully, we gave all we could to help that church and took many a beating.... Thank God for real men of God we have met along the way! Again, my apologies! In the recent years, I have found many great men of God who are very balanced in the pulpit! God bless all you who are! jumping for joy!!! yahoo!!!
I've seen the same thing.
Been there.
Done that.
Bought the t-shirt.
But sitting somewhere in mortal fear of your soul being lost because you want to be used? I don't believe it!
If you want to be used of God, submit - or remove somewhere where you can. I would never submit to selfish and controlling leadership.
My pastor wants what is best for ME and my relationship with God, not HIM.
And there is the key...YOU wouldn't submit to it. There may be someone though who is unable to find that strength because of the trust issue.
Again, JMHO...goodnite all...:)
Nahum
02-12-2007, 07:15 PM
We left....but not without pain...Some close friends wouldn't even talk to us because of things that had been said, and truthfully, we gave all we could to help that church and took many a beating.... Thank God for real men of God we have met along the way! Again, my apologies! In the recent years, I have found many great men of God who are very balanced in the pulpit! God bless all you who are! jumping for joy!!! yahoo!!!
You have absolutely no need to apologize for anything! I appreciate your words. Your experiences are valid, and meaningful. I have been where you are now.
Aren't you glad you bit the bullet and left? It was painful, but I guarantee you are better for it. The real travesty would have been to stay in an untenable situation.
LadyChocolate
02-12-2007, 07:15 PM
You are my friend Bro, but listen to me very, very carefully!
Get out of there! There are thousands of pastors in the UPC that would give their right arm to have a right hand man.
Opportunities come when we position ourselves to receive them.
Think about that statement. Do you never ask for a raise? Do you never change jobs, houses?
You do these things to become better. There are some times you can become better in the place you are at. Other times you've gotta move.
But if you are sincere, you will position yourself to be used of God no matter what. I am not fomenting rebellion, just a healthy respect of self.
A good pastor will want what is best for you.
Oh yes you are!!! :bliss lolol.... we did leave and the hold got a lot tighter on those who were still there! But it takes time to actually realize that you won't be cursed if you leave with out the pastor's blessings... lol!
Nahum
02-12-2007, 07:15 PM
And there is the key...YOU wouldn't submit to it. There may be someone though who is unable to find that strength because of the trust issue.
Again, JMHO...goodnite all...:)
Gotcha! Nice talking to you Sis. :highfive
Nahum
02-12-2007, 07:18 PM
Oh yes you are!!! :bliss lolol.... we did leave and the hold got a lot tighter on those who were still there! But it takes time to actually realize that you won't be cursed if you leave with out the pastor's blessings... lol!
Well, I am sorry you had to go through that crud. Most of us pastors would never be like the guy you've described. I do believe we need to submit to spiritual leadership, but not dictatorial rants.
LadyChocolate
02-12-2007, 07:19 PM
You have absolutely no need to apologize for anything! I appreciate your words. Your experiences are valid, and meaningful. I have been where you are now.
Aren't you glad you bit the bullet and left? It was painful, but I guarantee you are better for it. The real travesty would have been to stay in an untenable situation.
I begged my husband not to ever take me back there....if you only knew! But you know, it's strange because, it just didn't have to be this way, ya know? I really feel a genuine sorrow for the all the people involved, including the pastor! We are better for it and truthfully, God knew where we were and the time spent there has helped us to be better in the ministry! God is good!
Nahum
02-12-2007, 07:21 PM
I begged my husband not to ever take me back there....if you only knew! But you know, it's strange because, it just didn't have to be this way, ya know? I really feel a genuine sorrow for the all the people involved, including the pastor! We are better for it and truthfully, God knew where we were and the time spent there has helped us to be better in the ministry! God is good!
Happy to hear it. I have enjoyed talking to you. Sorry about all the ranting. :heeheehee
RevDWW
02-12-2007, 07:22 PM
You are my friend Bro, but listen to me very, very carefully!
Get out of there! There are thousands of pastors in the UPC that would give their right arm to have a right hand man.
Opportunities come when we position ourselves to receive them.
Think about that statement. Do you never ask for a raise? Do you never change jobs, houses?
You do these things to become better. There are some times you can become better in the place you are at. Other times you've gotta move.
But if you are sincere, you will position yourself to be used of God no matter what. I am not fomenting rebellion, just a healthy respect of self.
A good pastor will want what is best for you.
I think you misunderstood me. I was not speaking about myself. I have had many good opportunities. I'm at a place right now that is awesome for my ministry.
The rest of your words are true!
Nahum
02-12-2007, 07:23 PM
I think you misunderstood me. I was not speaking about myself. I have had many good opportunities. I'm at a place right now that is awesome for my ministry.
The rest of your words are true!
You can't fool me, Bubba! You are just another disgruntled poster beating up all of us pastors. :tease :heeheehee
LadyChocolate
02-12-2007, 07:24 PM
[QUOTE=whollyHis;3389]
Yep...you have to humble yourself to clean a toilet before you can hand your credentials on the wall! LOL:ranting
lol! been there and done that...but ya know, for those wanting things of God, cleaning the toilet won't be bothersome at all. you just do it like you would in your own house. if it needs to be done, you do it...not for recognition, but because there was a need..!
whollyHis
02-12-2007, 07:25 PM
This thread is a prime example of why I didn't want to post my thoughts to begin with- but, conceded to BOOM's admonishment...
We have been at the church we attend now, for about eight years. There are multiple lay ministers that I have heard preach MAYBE one time...some not at all...
Sad, in my opinion...
We have a grand piano and a B3 organ that sit idle...more than enough willing talent to have them played...sad, in my opinion...
I'll say no more...
God bless all of you wonderful pastors out there who recognize folks' gifts to the church...
LadyChocolate
02-12-2007, 07:26 PM
for all you pastors!!!! lol
:drawguns :thwak :hunter :razz :evilglee :groan :blah :banghead
our thoughts during sunday morning services!!! lol
jk!!!!!!!!!
RevDWW
02-12-2007, 07:50 PM
You can't fool me, Bubba! You are just another disgruntled poster beating up all of us pastors. :tease :heeheehee
That's right...put'm up...put'm up........:ranting
:killinme :killinme :killinme
Bro. Eckstadt,
Please read my thread on how to grow churches...I value your opinion.
Blessings, Rhoni
Will do.
Nathan Eckstadt
first, I was talking about people being available to God not some preacher..... second, this is the second time ive seen someone compare preachers to hitler. that was a knucleheaded thing to say. sometimes you say things that are great. this one was kind of knucleheaded. Napoliean I get. Hitler not so much.
I am not comparing then to Hitler for the act of Murder. But his fear of those around him. It is the same in business as I mentioned before.
As for your premise. It takes the door that men allow to open for u to work within a church. Unless you start a new work. Correct? That is all I have to say.
Monkeyman
02-12-2007, 08:59 PM
video & audio editing
Apostolic Kitty
02-12-2007, 09:06 PM
That is true! When you submit to a man of God and let them pastor you, you feel like they are going to get the mind of God with you.......and they use the "submission" part of the bible to keep people where they want them....I have actually heard preachers say that the man of God hears from God for the saints, including the "called" preachers. So if you feel direction from God and the man of God doesn't , he considers you out of the will of God if you leave because he doesnt' see it..... GET IT!!!!
Perhaps if people read the bible for themselves they would see that this is not biblical...
Apostolic Kitty
02-12-2007, 09:17 PM
This thread is a prime example of why I didn't want to post my thoughts to begin with- but, conceded to BOOM's admonishment...
We have been at the church we attend now, for about eight years. There are multiple lay ministers that I have heard preach MAYBE one time...some not at all...
Sad, in my opinion...
We have a grand piano and a B3 organ that sit idle...more than enough willing talent to have them played...sad, in my opinion...
I'll say no more...
God bless all of you wonderful pastors out there who recognize folks' gifts to the church...
I'm not really sure what you have issues with and why. I hope nothing I said made you feel any worse because it was certainly not my intent.
:dunno
On another note... I thought it was a sin for an apostolic church to not make use of a B3. Time for repentence! :praying
Monkeyman
02-12-2007, 09:34 PM
Playing 3 chords on my Fender strat like a rockstar!!!
stmatthew
02-12-2007, 09:45 PM
Well,
I can complain with the best of them. I have been in places where I preached almost as much as the pastor, and I have set wringing my hands year after year, wondering why the pastor used no one in the church, but often talked about needing help.
What I have learned in my short life, is that IF a person wants to minister, whether it be a preaching type ministry, or a witnessing type ministry, there is plenty of room outside the 4 walls of the church to do so.
There is no excuse for 7 - 10 preachers to be sitting within a church while there are so many going to hell. GET OUT and do what you are called to do! WIN THE LOST!!!
The issue is not that there is not a need. The issue is that young ministers want a pulpit ministry to boost their ego, instead of having a burden for souls.
whollyHis
02-12-2007, 10:09 PM
Well,
I can complain with the best of them. I have been in places where I preached almost as much as the pastor, and I have set wringing my hands year after year, wondering why the pastor used no one in the church, but often talked about needing help.
What I have learned in my short life, is that IF a person wants to minister, whether it be a preaching type ministry, or a witnessing type ministry, there is plenty of room outside the 4 walls of the church to do so.
There is no excuse for 7 - 10 preachers to be sitting within a church while there are so many going to hell. GET OUT and do what you are called to do! WIN THE LOST!!!
The issue is not that there is not a need. The issue is that young ministers want a pulpit ministry to boost their ego, instead of having a burden for souls.
I can appreciate this post,and I agree. The men that I refer to are NOT young, nor young in the Lord...they are all busy for the Kingdom- prisons, nursing homes, chaplains, etc...they'll have their reward...*smile* What I cannot understand, is shutting down church when pastor is gone for one service...I say,Let'em have at it!!!
whollyHis
02-12-2007, 10:10 PM
I'm not really sure what you have issues with and why. I hope nothing I said made you feel any worse because it was certainly not my intent.
:dunno
On another note... I thought it was a sin for an apostolic church to not make use of a B3. Time for repentence! :praying
Ni issues with anyone, but I knew that the pastors on here would be defensive when I stated my opinion- and , they were. But, that's okay.
LaVonne
02-12-2007, 10:49 PM
Cleaning and organizing.
stmatthew
02-12-2007, 10:53 PM
I can appreciate this post,and I agree. The men that I refer to are NOT young, nor young in the Lord...they are all busy for the Kingdom- prisons, nursing homes, chaplains, etc...they'll have their reward...*smile* What I cannot understand, is shutting down church when pastor is gone for one service...I say,Let'em have at it!!!
Well........you got me on that one.
Sister Truth Seeker
02-12-2007, 11:18 PM
I dont think you are bitter at all....
Now let me tell you the side of that little nuclei that are doing everything. Friend, I am in that group in my church. You know what? When we get done cleaning up after the rest of the church came, enjoyed, then left. we sit there TIERD wondering why those enjoyers didnt pitch in. The fact is, that small group that is doing everything arent doing it because they dont want you to have fun. They are doing it, because you arent.
Dont blame me for getting to church early to get things set up, pray and get ready for the day. Dont blame me for spending hours each week prepairing to teach a sunday school lesson. Blame yourself for not telling the pastor you need a job. Blame yourself for letting someone else clean the bathrooms.
the reason that small group of people are the "inner circle" is because they are the ones the Pastor KNOWS will get the job done. If you arent in that group, there is a better than zero chance, you havent joined in, showed up, stayed untill the lights got turned out.
You didnt go to the Pastor and ASK if you could cut the grass, teach a class or help with a dinner.
well I just dumped on you. Im sorry. make yourself available and before long, you will be longing for a pew and wondering why those other folk are just sitting there enjoying when you are working.
This is true! I worked very hard before I left for my two years of turmoil...I don't know if I will ever be that involved again...I got used up...my pastor says almost every Sunday if you want a job in the church there are many things to do..just come to him and he will find something for you to do....it takes a willing servants heart to be used...God wants a willing heart! I love my church family, my pastor, and I will get involved slowly and selectively.
Felicity
02-13-2007, 12:27 AM
I think that my greatest ability is the ability to trust in God no matter what comes or goes, and with that comes all kinds of blessing and gifting and anointing and abilities I never ever thought or knew I had.
Even the ability of being able to trust in God comes from Him. I can't do that on my own except He has given me the faith to be able to do so. :thumbsup
Rhoni
02-13-2007, 03:27 AM
I think that my greatest ability is the ability to trust in God no matter what comes or goes, and with that comes all kinds of blessing and gifting and anointing and abilities I never ever thought or knew I had.
Even the ability of being able to trust in God comes from Him. I can't do that on my own except He has given me the faith to be able to do so. :thumbsup
Wow, you have said a mouthfull! Trust is not easily attained, especially when situations, friends, and family have proven untrustworthy. We can't help but project this onto God. What you said about He [God] has given you the faith to trust him...powerful.:highfive
Reminds me of the scripture which tells us to ...put on the whole armour of God: The helmet of salvation, the breastplate of righteousness, the sword of the spirit, the belt of truth, the shoes of peace, and formost...THE SHIELD of FAITH!
This shield diverts every firey dart of the enemy...every doubt, every temptation, everything the devil throws at us to destry and hurt us...Thank God for that Shield of Faith!
Blessings, Rhoni
Rhoni
02-13-2007, 05:56 AM
I, too, have seen this and it is a very sad, sad situation each time I see it. I have watched ministers , men called of God, just minister in the local church with the pastor saying, "one day you might be out there on your own". And they keep dangling the carrot before the rabbit and lead them on but never have any intention on letting them go. Sad !!! so you have 15-20 "young preachers" sitting on pews for 10-20 years...and the pastor keeps saying, "there's still more I need to teach you on leadership'" ...:ranting
They only teach them how to follow them...make them dependent and unable to think for themselves. They are not mentoring leaders they are growing followers! This is sad!:praying
Rhoni
02-13-2007, 06:05 AM
When someone says you're doing better, what does that imply? And Is that supposed to be of comfort?
:killinme :killinme :killinme :killinme :killinme
It implies that you are not going out of your way to be a jerk:tease
Rhoni
02-13-2007, 06:05 AM
:)!
Esther
02-13-2007, 08:24 AM
There are a lot of valid post on this thread.
Every individual and every situation can not be given a specific answer. Each situation has varying degrees.
1. If you are not faithful to attend service, you are not likely to be used.
2. It is common for pastors to use the same ones, because they feel they KNOW who will get the job done. Although, there is some merit to that, it can also cause harm in not giving others a chance.
3. Many pastors do not understand the importance of using people according to their temperaments. The very one that is most qualified to lead, appears to be the most threatening and scares an insecure pastor.
4. As Ferd mentioned, you can let your pastor know you are dependable by staying to help clean up after an event, without being asked.
5. As Barb mentioned there are ways to help that doesn't require permission.
Just a few thoughts.
Felicity
02-13-2007, 08:30 AM
Wow, you have said a mouthfull! Trust is not easily attained, especially when situations, friends, and family have proven untrustworthy. We can't help but project this onto God. What you said about He [God] has given you the faith to trust him...powerful.:highfive
Reminds me of the scripture which tells us to ...put on the whole armour of God: The helmet of salvation, the breastplate of righteousness, the sword of the spirit, the belt of truth, the shoes of peace, and formost...THE SHIELD of FAITH!
This shield diverts every firey dart of the enemy...every doubt, every temptation, everything the devil throws at us to destry and hurt us...Thank God for that Shield of Faith!
Blessings, RhoniRight, except that I can't even begin to imagine .... knowing God as I do and have ........ projecting the failures of others or disappointment or letdown onto Him. That totally baffles me. :dunno
Though God slay me yet I will trust Him.
It matters not what man does or doesn't do, yet will I trust Him.
It doesn't matter how I may fail or disappoint God, yet will I trust Him.
It doesn't matter how tough life gets, how bad situations turn out, yet will I trust Him.
Doesn't matter if I never ever receive another blessing from Him, yet will I trust Him!
I can't imagine not trusting and hoping in God. Without that I am lost and doomed.
Rhoni
02-13-2007, 08:33 AM
There are a lot of valid post on this thread.
Every individual and every situation can not be given a specific answer. Each situation has varying degrees.
1. If you are not faithful to attend service, you are not likely to be used.
2. It is common for pastors to use the same ones, because they feel they KNOW who will get the job done. Although, there is some merit to that, it can also cause harm in not giving others a chance.
3. Many pastors do not understand the importance of using people according to their temperaments. The very one that is most qualified to lead, appears to be the most threatening and scares an insecure pastor.
4. As Ferd mentioned, you can let your pastor know you are dependable by staying to help clean up after an event, without being asked.
5. As Barb mentioned there are ways to help that doesn't require permission.
Just a few thoughts.
Esther,
This is exactly what John Maxwell says. A level 6-7 Pastor will not use a 10 leader related to the intimidation factor. It is their own issue of insecurity and not that of the 10 person/leader wanting to be used. This is sad for all those truly gifted who have desire to be used.
Blessings, Rhoni
Hello!
Who in their right mind would sit for 10-20 years? I sincerely doubt they are God-called. Don't put it all on the pastor, if some guy is stupid enough to remain inactive for that long, he has no business being in a pulpit.
Real burdens require discomfort and movement.
I don't buy what you guys are selling. :vomit
Hitler? Napoleon? Whatever! :beatdeadhorse
How about the pansies that are to weak-kneed to step out on their own?
PREACH!
I am not comparing then to Hitler for the act of Murder. But his fear of those around him. It is the same in business as I mentioned before.
As for your premise. It takes the door that men allow to open for u to work within a church. Unless you start a new work. Correct? That is all I have to say.
this hitler thing just bugs me. honestly if you were just making a "stupid mustach" compairison it would bug me. I do get the Napolean complex thing. It does fit the insecurity of some preachers (thank God I havent run into them) . However, when I started this thread, I wasnt even thinking about preachers or pastors. I was thinking about being avialable to God. Now I did use my pastor's comments and how some folk with less talent get used over more talented people because of avialability so I see how the discussion devolved but honestly being available to God doesnt necessarily require the pastors approval.
One can be a soul winner even if the Pastor doent think you are qualifiedto wattch fish swim in a glass tank.
Felicity
02-13-2007, 09:00 AM
I don't think that having a choleric personality or natural "take charge" ability automatically qualifies someone for leadership position. Some of those type of people need to be passed over for very good cause.
Natural leadership ability and desire to lead is fine but it needs to be tempered with an ability to rein ones self in and needs to be submitted and yielded to authority. Add to that wisdom, good sense and propriety mixed with it. :thumbsup
Rhoni
02-13-2007, 09:02 AM
I don't think that having a choleric personality or natural "take charge" ability automatically qualifies someone for leadership position. Some of those type of people need to be passed over for very good cause.
Natural leadership ability and desire to lead is fine but it needs to be tempered with an ability to rein ones self in and needs to be submitted and yielded to authority. Add to that wisdom, good sense and propriety mixed with it. :thumbsup
This is true. But many cholerics always have people following and are excellent leaders. It is this type of personality that most leaders are made of.
Blessings, Rhoni
Nahum
02-13-2007, 09:21 AM
this hitler thing just bugs me. honestly if you were just making a "stupid mustach" compairison it would bug me. I do get the Napolean complex thing. It does fit the insecurity of some preachers (thank God I havent run into them) . However, when I started this thread, I wasnt even thinking about preachers or pastors. I was thinking about being avialable to God. Now I did use my pastor's comments and how some folk with less talent get used over more talented people because of avialability so I see how the discussion devolved but honestly being available to God doesnt necessarily require the pastors approval.
One can be a soul winner even if the Pastor doent think you are qualifiedto wattch fish swim in a glass tank.
It bothers me too. Hitler killed millions of innocents in order to create a
supposed utopian society. I think we need to be careful what analogies we make.
Rhoni
02-13-2007, 09:22 AM
It bothers me too. Hitler killed millions of innocents in order to create a
supposed utopian society. I think we need to be careful what analogies we make.
:highfive I agree! But I don't think Ferd meant to offend.
Blessings, Rhoni
LaVonne
02-13-2007, 09:22 AM
I don't think that having a choleric personality or natural "take charge" ability automatically qualifies someone for leadership position. Some of those type of people need to be passed over for very good cause.
Natural leadership ability and desire to lead is fine but it needs to be tempered with an ability to rein ones self in and needs to be submitted and yielded to authority. Add to that wisdom, good sense and propriety mixed with it. :thumbsup
Excellent post, I could not agree more!
Nahum
02-13-2007, 09:25 AM
I don't think that having a choleric personality or natural "take charge" ability automatically qualifies someone for leadership position. Some of those type of people need to be passed over for very good cause.
Natural leadership ability and desire to lead is fine but it needs to be tempered with an ability to rein ones self in and needs to be submitted and yielded to authority. Add to that wisdom, good sense and propriety mixed with it. :thumbsup
All leaders show some characteristics of a choleric personality. I would add that the twenty-first century leader needs to understand human sociology. He or she needs to understand the politics of people.
You can have many great ideas, and a wonderful vision, but without an understanding of how to move people ideas and vision are worthless.
Rhoni
02-13-2007, 09:26 AM
All leaders show some characteristics of a choleric personality. I would add that the twenty-first century leader needs to understand human sociology. He or she needs to understand the politics of people.
You can have many great ideas, and a wonderful vision, but without an understanding of how to move people ideas and vision are worthless.
This is so true.:ty
Nahum
02-13-2007, 09:26 AM
:highfive I agree! But I don't think Ferd meant to offend.
Blessings, Rhoni
Neckstadt was the poster, Sis. :dunno
Rhoni
02-13-2007, 09:29 AM
Neckstadt was the poster, Sis. :dunno
HIM either;)!:tease :killinme :killinme
Felicity
02-13-2007, 09:34 AM
All leaders show some characteristics of a choleric personality. I would add that the twenty-first century leader needs to understand human sociology. He or she needs to understand the politics of people.
You can have many great ideas, and a wonderful vision, but without an understanding of how to move people ideas and vision are worthless. In regard to leadership and personality I often think of some of the leaders in scripture - both male and female. They didn't all seem necessarily typically choleric.
Think about it and then share your thoughts. :)
Felicity
02-13-2007, 09:39 AM
I think that "leadership" comes natural to some people but they're not necessarily primarily choleric type people.
You find leaders who are strongly even primarily sanguine or melancholic or phlegmatic.
A lot of leadership skill can be developed and learned over time.
The ability to work with people is all important if you're going to lead - whether you're a "natural" or have had to learn and work at becoming a good leader.
Just a few thots ....... don't expect everyone to agree necessarily and I know that there's the other "side" of what I'm saying even while I'm saying it. :)
The thing is if God puts you in a position where you're called on to "lead" even though you may not feel that's your "thing" He will give and grant divine ability to do what He has put you in that position to do.
Rhoni
02-13-2007, 09:40 AM
In regard to leadership and personality I often think of some of the leaders in scripture - both male and female. They didn't all seem necessarily typically choleric.
Think about it and then share your thoughts. :)
Choleric attributes. I think many people have leadership abilities but have a mix of different personality types. I am primarily choleric but have a third melancholy.
Blessings, Rhoni
Nahum
02-13-2007, 09:42 AM
In regard to leadership and personality I often think of some of the leaders in scripture - both male and female. They didn't all seem necessarily typically choleric.
Think about it and then share your thoughts. :)
Examples:
Gideon
Young Saul
Esther
These examples were unwilling leaders. But as time progressed, they exhibited SOME choleric attributes.If you will notice, I simply stated all leaders exhibit SOME choleric characteristics. Doing so is an imperative to get the job done.
Leadership is not for the faint of heart. :ty
Felicity
02-13-2007, 09:42 AM
All leaders show some characteristics of a choleric personality. I would add that the twenty-first century leader needs to understand human sociology. He or she needs to understand the politics of people.
You can have many great ideas, and a wonderful vision, but without an understanding of how to move people ideas and vision are worthless.:thumbsup
Esther
02-13-2007, 09:45 AM
I think you can have a Choleric that is a natural born leader get the job done. Note: they do have a weakness of running over people IF the Holy Ghost doesn't temper them.
Or you can have a Melchonly that perfers to work alone. Note: they can over work themselves because they do the job themselves, since they want it done right.
Or you can have a Sanguine,that is the life of the party. Note: they may not remember where they put they keys to go home, or forget to bring the keys to unlock the church.
Or you can get a Phlymactic who does things at their own pace. Note: your deadline just may not get met.
Or you can get the Supine who gets along with everyone. Note: they hate to make decisions, so may take awhile to decide what to do.
All temperments have their place.
Felicity
02-13-2007, 09:46 AM
Examples:
Gideon
Young Saul
Esther
These examples were unwilling leaders. But as time progressed, they exhibited SOME choleric attributes.If you will notice, I simply stated all leaders exhibit SOME choleric characteristics. Doing so is an imperative to get the job done.
Leadership is not for the faint of heart. :tyI faint at the thought of it many times. :heeheehee
Felicity
02-13-2007, 09:47 AM
I think you can have a Choleric that is a natural born leader get the job done. Note: they do have a weakness of running over people IF the Holy Ghost doesn't temper them.
Or you can have a Melchonly that perfers to work alone. Note: they can over work themselves because they do the job themselves, since they want it done right.
Or you can have a Sanguine,that is the life of the party. Note: they may not remember where they put they keys to go home, or forget to bring the keys to unlock the church.
Or you can get a Phlymactic who does things at their own pace. Note: your deadline just may not get met.
Or you can get the Supine who gets along with everyone. Note: they hate to make decisions, so may take awhile to decide what to do.
All temperments have their place.Yes, and all the personality types are capable of leading. Not all people are though.
Esther
02-13-2007, 09:48 AM
Examples:
Gideon
Young Saul
Esther
These examples were unwilling leaders. But as time progressed, they exhibited SOME choleric attributes.If you will notice, I simply stated all leaders exhibit SOME choleric characteristics. Doing so is an imperative to get the job done.
Leadership is not for the faint of heart. :ty
Amen!
Nahum
02-13-2007, 09:56 AM
I think you can have a Choleric that is a natural born leader get the job done. Note: they do have a weakness of running over people IF the Holy Ghost doesn't temper them.
Or you can have a Melchonly that perfers to work alone. Note: they can over work themselves because they do the job themselves, since they want it done right.
Or you can have a Sanguine,that is the life of the party. Note: they may not remember where they put they keys to go home, or forget to bring the keys to unlock the church.
Or you can get a Phlymactic who does things at their own pace. Note: your deadline just may not get met.
Or you can get the Supine who gets along with everyone. Note: they hate to make decisions, so may take awhile to decide what to do.
All temperments have their place.
Addendum:
All personalities will eventually need to exhibit choleric attributes or they wll not make it as leaders. They will get eaten alive!
Otherwise, I agree with you totally. :bliss
Rhoni
02-13-2007, 10:07 AM
Addendum:
All personalities will eventually need to exhibit choleric attributes or they wll not make it as leaders. They will get eaten alive!
Otherwise, I agree with you totally. :bliss
:highfive Me too!
I think that God took the individual's best quality, Paul's was education, Peter's was boldness and determination, and Matthews was finance, and David's was his knowledge that through Christ anything can be accomplished. He took the tools each acquired through their trades and channelled them into usefulness in the kingdom.
Blessings, Rhoni
Interesting. I don't see any evidence in scripture that the Lord used Matthew's financial acumen (particularly since Judas Iscariot was the one who kept the money bag). You seem to be saying God uses skills and abilities that people acquire on their own, through their own effort. Could it not be that it was God who actually gave these men their respective talents/abilities?
Esther
02-13-2007, 10:26 AM
Yes, and all the personality types are capable of leading. Not all people are though.
I disagree that all personality types are capable of leading, but I agree that not all people are capable.
I think that is where the problem is when people that are sweet and kind are put in leadership roles that don't match their temperaments.
Sis Santos
02-13-2007, 10:44 AM
Right, except that I can't even begin to imagine .... knowing God as I do and have ........ projecting the failures of others or disappointment or letdown onto Him. That totally baffles me. :dunno
Though God slay me yet I will trust Him.
It matters not what man does or doesn't do, yet will I trust Him.
It doesn't matter how I may fail or disappoint God, yet will I trust Him.
It doesn't matter how tough life gets, how bad situations turn out, yet will I trust Him.
Doesn't matter if I never ever receive another blessing from Him, yet will I trust Him!
I can't imagine not trusting and hoping in God. Without that I am lost and doomed.
Felicity,
I just read this post. Thank you so much for blessing me this afternoon. That is the attitude that I need.
To all,
I heard someone say once, if you have something that you need done, find the busiest person and they will get it done. In our churches, we try to use everyone, looking for their talents and what they are best at. We arent perfect, but we are trying to raise leaders and give saints the chance to mature. Before coming to the mission field, there was so much to do in the church and I heard many complain about not being used. I always found more than enough to do and was always exhausted on Sunday night after church. I wasnt any part of an "in" group either, nor did I have any "pedigree" in fact, none of my family was in church.
Rhoni
02-13-2007, 01:04 PM
I disagree that all personality types are capable of leading, but I agree that not all people are capable.
I think that is where the problem is when people that are sweet and kind are put in leadership roles that don't match their temperaments.
This is true. My ex-husband was a good follower, very passive, and unable to make decisions. He began Pastoring to his own detriment. He would make an excellent assistant, but he cannot lead. He has a dependent personality!
Blessings, Rhoni
Rhoni
02-13-2007, 01:06 PM
Interesting. I don't see any evidence in scripture that the Lord used Matthew's financial acumen (particularly since Judas Iscariot was the one who kept the money bag). You seem to be saying God uses skills and abilities that people acquire on their own, through their own effort. Could it not be that it was God who actually gave these men their respective talents/abilities?
Of course everyone's personaility and giftedness comes from God, but it is expanded upon by situation, opportunity, and education.:highfive
Felicity
02-13-2007, 01:11 PM
I think we put too much emphasis on personality and not enough on the calling of God and the empowerment and gifting that comes with the anointing and baptism of the Holy Ghost! :)
My dad is a strong phleg if you want to stick a personality label on him yet he was sought out as a leader in many different areas through the years including supervisory positions within the company he worked for. He's always been known as being fairly laid back, quiet, shy and easy to get along with. Definitely not your typical 'chol' personality.
So there you go. :)
Felicity
02-13-2007, 01:12 PM
Felicity,
I just read this post. Thank you so much for blessing me this afternoon. That is the attitude that I need.
To all,
I heard someone say once, if you have something that you need done, find the busiest person and they will get it done. In our churches, we try to use everyone, looking for their talents and what they are best at. We arent perfect, but we are trying to raise leaders and give saints the chance to mature. Before coming to the mission field, there was so much to do in the church and I heard many complain about not being used. I always found more than enough to do and was always exhausted on Sunday night after church. I wasnt any part of an "in" group either, nor did I have any "pedigree" in fact, none of my family was in church.There were a few of the ladies in a church we pastored back home who complained about not being in my 'loop'. I told them the way to get into the PW loop was to become a worker. Hehe. ;) :)
Love your post by the way. :highfive
Felicity
02-13-2007, 01:16 PM
May I speak personally here? :)
I'm not your typical "take charge/bossy/choleric" personality yet I've filled leadership positions through the years. You learn as you go and I've been told by others I'm good at leading.
I'd really rather not have the responsibility or the hassle but this is where God has put me. I'm here to serve and one of the ways I've served through the years especially in the last is to step into leadership positions and submit and yield to those who have asked me to do so.
We're here to serve one another. There are different ways we do that -- both by serving and leading. I lead, I serve. I serve, I lead.
Forget "personality". It's really quite immaterial. ;) :)
Choleric attributes. I think many people have leadership abilities but have a mix of different personality types. I am primarily choleric but have a third melancholy.
Blessings, Rhoni
I have never really 'gotten into' the personality types thing...to be honest, I don't understand it much.
I've just always figured folks either were leaders or they weren't. :dunno
But, like I've always said, I'm not the brightest bulb in this chandelier...:heeheehee
May I speak personally here? :)
I'm not your typical "take charge/bossy/choleric" personality yet I've filled leadership positions through the years. You learn as you go and I've been told by others I'm good at leading.
I'd really rather not have the responsibility or the hassle but this is where God has put me. I'm here to serve and one of the ways I've served through the years especially in the last is to step into leadership positions and submit and yield to those who have asked me to do so.
We're here to serve one another. There are different ways we do that -- both by serving and leading. I lead, I serve. I serve, I lead.
Forget "personality". It's really quite immaterial. ;) :)
I've only have time to read the last two or three pages, but I must say, y'all have made some great posts here today, this one in particular.:highfive
Kudos to Ferd for a great thread...:bliss
Rhoni
02-13-2007, 03:53 PM
Personality as well as calling and anointing work together. You can't/shouldn't discount one or the other. Not everyone fits into the expected personility type or calling that others expect for them. God uses the uneducated and blesses them with skills for the tasks he calls them to. He also uses the educated and those well-equipped to do the job he has called them to do.
To say that God doesn't use the educated and the talented as opposed to the uneducated and untalented is short-changing God in both areas.
It kind of gets old to hear how God doesn't use the rich, the educated, and the multi-talented because they are unwilling and full of themselves. I know plenty of uneducated and unwilling who are also full of themselves.
The old paradigm of alienating the educated, more than average wealth, and the mulit-talented to use the poor, the feeble, and the ignorant is just a Pentecostal way of saying...don't strive for excellence or education because God only uses ignorant, and uneducated folks int he kingdom. That paradigm in itself is faulty to the max and is why we have an over abundance of small insignificant churches who have 20-30 relatives in it.
Just my thoughts on the subject.
Blessings, Rhoni
Don't strive for excellence and you will never fail to reach your goals;)!
Felicity
02-13-2007, 03:56 PM
Personality as well as calling and anointing work together. You can't/shouldn't discount one or the other. Not everyone fits into the expected personility type or calling that others expect for them. God uses the uneducated and blesses them with skills for the tasks he calls them to. He also uses the educated and those well-equipped to do the job he has called them to do.
To say that God doesn't use the educated and the talented as opposed to the uneducated and untalented is short-changing God in both areas.
It kind of gets old to hear how God doesn't use the rich, the educated, and the multi-talented because they are unwilling and full of themselves. I know plenty of uneducated and unwilling who are also full of themselves.
The old paradigm of alienating the educated, more than average wealth, and the mulit-talented to use the poor, the feeble, and the ignorant is just a Pentecostal way of saying...don't strive for excellence or education because God only uses ignorant, and uneducated folks int he kingdom. That paradigm in itself is faulty to the max and is why we have an over abundance of small insignificant churches who have 20-30 relatives in it.
Just my thoughts on the subject.
Blessings, Rhoni
Don't strive for excellence and you will never fail to reach your goals;)!Good thoughts and good expression of them too! ;) :)
Rhoni
02-13-2007, 03:59 PM
Good thoughts and good expression of them too! ;) :)
Is that a nice way of saying...Rhoni you have a big mouth?:heeheehee
:ty I think
Of course everyone's personaility and giftedness comes from God, but it is expanded upon by situation, opportunity, and education.:highfiveDo you really think everyone's personality comes from God? I'm not sure I'm prepared to put the blame on God for that one.
COOPER
02-14-2007, 09:50 AM
Do you really think everyone's personality comes from God? I'm not sure I'm prepared to put the blame on God for that one.
Are you Chancellor?????
Personality as well as calling and anointing work together. You can't/shouldn't discount one or the other. Not everyone fits into the expected personility type or calling that others expect for them. God uses the uneducated and blesses them with skills for the tasks he calls them to. He also uses the educated and those well-equipped to do the job he has called them to do.There you go thinking like the world. It doesn't matter what others expect, it only matters what God does. One may not have the kind of "personality" others might expect a person with a particular calling to have but it is God that has called this person to that particular work or gift (something you seemed to be trying to say but that got lost in your worldly thinking that personality and calling/anointing work together). Also, education or lack thereof has nothing to do with personality - one can have a "porcupine" or "sandpaper" (or some other) personality regardless of whether he has multiple college degrees or whether he never got past the first grade (as one who has one of those personalities in the quotes, I post from experience).
To say that God doesn't use the educated and the talented as opposed to the uneducated and untalented is short-changing God in both areas.I think God uses the educated despite their education and that talent (innate ability) itself comes from God.
It kind of gets old to hear how God doesn't use the rich, the educated, and the multi-talented because they are unwilling and full of themselves. I know plenty of uneducated and unwilling who are also full of themselves.While part of me agrees with this sentiment, I have to weigh that against what Paul said in 1 Corinthians 1:25-31, "For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, so that no human being might boast in the presence of God. He is the source of your life in Christ Jesus, whom God made our wisdom and our righteousness and sanctification and redemption. Therefore, as it is written, 'Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.'"
The old paradigm of alienating the educated, more than average wealth, and the mulit-talented to use the poor, the feeble, and the ignorant is just a Pentecostal way of saying...don't strive for excellence or education because God only uses ignorant, and uneducated folks in the kingdom. That paradigm in itself is faulty to the max and is why we have an over abundance of small insignificant churches who have 20-30 relatives in it.Worse, it's a Pentecostal way of saying "Check your brain at the door." However, what Paul said is true: "not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth." Of course, it does say "not many;" it doesn't say "none."
Apostolic Kitty
02-14-2007, 10:07 AM
I think we put too much emphasis on personality and not enough on the calling of God and the empowerment and gifting that comes with the anointing and baptism of the Holy Ghost! :)
Most definitely! God does not look at things through our eyes and shouldn't. We should be the ones striving to look at things through His eyes.
We're here to serve one another. There are different ways we do that -- both by serving and leading. I lead, I serve. I serve, I lead.
:ty
Apostolic Kitty
02-14-2007, 10:09 AM
I have never really 'gotten into' the personality types thing...to be honest, I don't understand it much.
I've just always figured folks either were leaders or they weren't. :dunno
But, like I've always said, I'm not the brightest bulb in this chandelier...:heeheehee
To me the personality type thing is just for fun... And sometimes it can help you understand some things about people, but it's not anywhere near gospel...
I think we put too much emphasis on personality and not enough on the calling of God and the empowerment and gifting that comes with the anointing and baptism of the Holy Ghost! :)I think that, if anything, personality can often get in the way.
Felicity
02-14-2007, 11:17 AM
I think that, if anything, personality can often get in the way. True! Very true!
Felicity
02-14-2007, 11:20 AM
Most definitely! God does not look at things through our eyes and shouldn't. We should be the ones striving to look at things through His eyes. Exactly. Looking at things His way is the only way we can ever get it right.
RevDWW
02-14-2007, 11:27 AM
Nothing wrong with having a good personality(not that I would know)....... for one to have friends one must show themselves friendly.
But personiality in the pulpit should never be preferred over Power in the Spirit.
philjones
02-14-2007, 11:36 AM
I have been thinking about peoples ability as it relates to God and service in the church. This Sunday my pastor made a comment in his sermon that has really been with me, kind of connecting the dots. He said that often times you find someone with less ability working in a church while a real talent sits on the pew. The difference is one stepped up.
That got me thinking about the bible and the people God used. Samuel was an orphan. David was a kid with much more talented, stronger, OLDER brothers. Gideon was a nobody afraid of his own shadow. Peter was “an ignorant and unlearned man”….and a loudmouth coward…. Paul was a murderer….What was it about these guys that made them so used? I think really their common ability was availability.
Good post and point, Ferdinand! I have always felt that God doesn't NEED my Ability (although he does use them), He simply needs my AvailAbility! He can equip you wherever he might ship you!
Some time ago I taught a lesson on "God's Unusual Tools of Triumph"! His tool box is full of the outcast and undesirables! Yet, He is able to do all that needs to be done in His strength through our weakness!:ty
philjones
02-14-2007, 11:37 AM
Nothing wrong with having a good personality(not that I would know)....... for one to have friends one must show themselves friendly.
But personiality in the pulpit should never be preferred over Power in the Spirit.
You said a mouthful here!:clap :clap
Nothing wrong with having a good personality(not that I would know)....... for one to have friends one must show themselves friendly.
But personiality in the pulpit should never be preferred over Power in the Spirit.And power in the pulpit should never be preferred over Truth in the Spirit.
RevDWW
02-14-2007, 11:53 AM
And power in the pulpit should never be preferred over Truth in the Spirit.
His Power and His Truth are one and the same. A good word for it would be LOVE!
His Power and His Truth are one and the same. A good word for it would be LOVE!But not all "power" in the pulpit is God's power.
RevDWW
02-14-2007, 12:02 PM
But not all "power" in the pulpit is God's power.
I understand what your saving, but I was using the word power as if it were the Power of God.
I understand what your saving, but I was using the word power as if it were the Power of God.Let us not be so quick to make that assumption.
To me the personality type thing is just for fun... And sometimes it can help you understand some things about people, but it's not anywhere near gospel...
I just wish I understood it all...:dunno
Rhoni
02-14-2007, 04:22 PM
There you go thinking like the world. It doesn't matter what others expect, it only matters what God does. One may not have the kind of "personality" others might expect a person with a particular calling to have but it is God that has called this person to that particular work or gift (something you seemed to be trying to say but that got lost in your worldly thinking that personality and calling/anointing work together). Also, education or lack thereof has nothing to do with personality - one can have a "porcupine" or "sandpaper" (or some other) personality regardless of whether he has multiple college degrees or whether he never got past the first grade (as one who has one of those personalities in the quotes, I post from experience).
I think God uses the educated despite their education and that talent (innate ability) itself comes from God.
While part of me agrees with this sentiment, I have to weigh that against what Paul said in 1 Corinthians 1:25-31, "For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, so that no human being might boast in the presence of God. He is the source of your life in Christ Jesus, whom God made our wisdom and our righteousness and sanctification and redemption. Therefore, as it is written, 'Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.'"
Worse, it's a Pentecostal way of saying "Check your brain at the door." However, what Paul said is true: "not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth." Of course, it does say "not many;" it doesn't say "none."
CHANCELLOR, I don't blame God for your personaility but I do hold you accountable for hounding and trying to destroy every post I make.
LadyChocolate
02-14-2007, 08:38 PM
CHANCELLOR, I don't blame God for your personaility but I do hold you accountable for hounding and trying to destroy every post I make.
Sis. Rhoni....Remember when the lil boys hit the lil girls in school.........it was because they really like them but didn't know how to show it!!! lol
:heeheehee
jk yall!
LadyChocolate
02-14-2007, 08:44 PM
To me the personality type thing is just for fun... And sometimes it can help you understand some things about people, but it's not anywhere near gospel...
I 've looked at the personality thing for fun too, but I really don't like it for anything else. I've seen people totally live by this "sanguine, meloncolly, plegmatic, choleric (i know my spelling is off on those)....I don't think it is fair to label people with these because people change but from what i've seen, those who really get into this never let people change. "oh that is just the phlegmatic personality coming out" they say. Or, "no, you won't make a good leader, pastor or whatever because you are too much this and not enough of that." That stuff really gets in my crawl.......also, it could become a little on the "astrology" side of things..... jmo.....
I 've looked at the personality thing for fun too, but I really don't like it for anything else. I've seen people totally live by this "sanguine, meloncolly, plegmatic, choleric (i know my spelling is off on those)....I don't think it is fair to label people with these because people change but from what i've seen, those who really get into this never let people change. "oh that is just the phlegmatic personality coming out" they say. Or, "no, you won't make a good leader, pastor or whatever because you are too much this and not enough of that." That stuff really gets in my crawl.......also, it could become a little on the "astrology" side of things..... jmo.....
I know one thing. Understanding your customer and their specific personality traits is a must.
See when you earn your living by selling to people.
You will learn how to deal with folks on the spot.
Or you will not earn a living.
I think being in sales for 10 plus years is setting me up to be very successful in a ministry.
You will get to know traits in a person upon meeting them.
Otherwise if you don't learn their traits you do not know how to adjust yours to work with them.
Have you ever known someone to just be able to make everyone feel comfortable?
If they are in the ministry they become very effective.
The ministers who do not have enough of this or enough of that...In my book they just are not good studies of human character.
I think that hurts their effectiveness....
Nathan Eckstadt
Felicity
02-14-2007, 10:51 PM
CHANCELLOR, I don't blame God for your personaility but I do hold you accountable for hounding and trying to destroy every post I make.I already mentioned this in another thread but I'll ask again. I thought Chan and Chancellor were two different people. :dunno
LadyChocolate
02-14-2007, 11:03 PM
I know one thing. Understanding your customer and their specific personality traits is a must.
See when you earn your living by selling to people.
You will learn how to deal with folks on the spot.
Or you will not earn a living.
I think being in sales for 10 plus years is setting me up to be very successful in a ministry.
You will get to know traits in a person upon meeting them.
Otherwise if you don't learn their traits you do not know how to adjust yours to work with them.
Have you ever known someone to just be able to make everyone feel comfortable?
If they are in the ministry they become very effective.
The ministers who do not have enough of this or enough of that...In my book they just are not good studies of human character.
I think that hurts their effectiveness....
Nathan Eckstadt
Ican understand what you saying...but I am talking about people who label others and pinning that label on them for life. Yes, you do get to know peoples traits and their temperments...But let me give you an example of what I am talking about....We moved to a new area and went to a church because my husband knew the pastor there and my hubby needed a friend. We went thru the death of our first born child and we needed some healing. Because we were in a state of depression, my hubby was very down on lots of things...God helped us and healing took place.....But, he was labeled by this preacher as being a negative person......With nothing positive to say.....Now, yeeeears later, time has healed and life has gone on. My husband is the funniest , most encouraging man I know....and very much a "people person". But in the eyes of this pastor, he still sees my husband as the man that came to his church yeeears ago. You can't pin a label on someone forever.....that's what i'm referring too.
Rhoni
02-15-2007, 02:46 AM
I already mentioned this in another thread but I'll ask again. I thought Chan and Chancellor were two different people. :dunno
Always...one's personality comes bleeding through...obviously one and the same.:heeheehee
Rhoni
02-15-2007, 02:55 AM
I 've looked at the personality thing for fun too, but I really don't like it for anything else. I've seen people totally live by this "sanguine, meloncolly, plegmatic, choleric (i know my spelling is off on those)....I don't think it is fair to label people with these because people change but from what i've seen, those who really get into this never let people change. "oh that is just the phlegmatic personality coming out" they say. Or, "no, you won't make a good leader, pastor or whatever because you are too much this and not enough of that." That stuff really gets in my crawl.......also, it could become a little on the "astrology" side of things..... jmo.....
I agree LadyChocolate! The personality traits you mentioned are from a layperson's book...was it Tim Lahaye or something? This is not how personality issues are address professionally in counseling circles. Besides, we are all on a continuum of sorts and flow in and out of different aspects of all the personality types.
I can't speak for others except the truly dysfunctional of course:heeheehee , but my personality has changed so much through the years. I am more melancholy now than I have ever been. But it is not really who I am, but more a reaction to the changes I have undergone in the past decade.
Yes, I think too much stock is put in the personailty types bit. Just another way to excuse someone's behavior when they get their undergarments all in a bunch:heeheehee :heeheehee :heeheehee :heeheehee
Blessings, Rhoni
I agree LadyChocolate! The personality traits you mentioned are from a layperson's book...was it Tim Lahaye or something? This is not how personality issues are address professionally in counseling circles. Besides, we are all on a continuum of sorts and flow in and out of different aspects of all the personality types.
I can't speak for others except the truly dysfunctional of course:heeheehee , but my personality has changed so much through the years. I am more melancholy now than I have ever been. But it is not really who I am, but more a reaction to the changes I have undergone in the past decade.
Yes, I think too much stock is put in the personailty types bit. Just another way to excuse someone's behavior when they get their undergarments all in a bunch:heeheehee :heeheehee :heeheehee :heeheehee
Blessings, RhoniTranslation: don't listen to what a man of God says, listen to what that worldly philosophy of psychology says - practitioners of that philosophy are the only people "qualified" to speak on such issues.
I think whoever came up with this personality trait thing was a big fat show off. I mean I cant spell a single one of them! Im not even sure I can pronounce them either.
what in the world is a choloric????? good grief (yea i realize i didnt spell it right)! give me a break, how about coming up with something normal people can relate to like "he smells funny" I understand that.
I think whoever came up with this personality trait thing was a big fat show off. I mean I cant spell a single one of them! Im not even sure I can pronounce them either.
what in the world is a choloric????? good grief (yea i realize i didnt spell it right)! give me a break, how about coming up with something normal people can relate to like "he smells funny" I understand that.Choleric, as in something related to cholera perhaps? Then there's phlegmatic, as in phlegm.
These relate to what were the four "humors" in early physiology. Phlegm is the one of the four humors in early physiology that was considered to be cold and moist and to cause sluggishness. The four humors are: blood, black bile, yellow bile, and phlegm. Of course, when referring to personality types, the reference is to Galen's four temperaments (in 190 A.D.): sanguine, melancholic, choleric, and phlegmatic. See the chart in the following link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_humours
SEE ALSO: http://www.philosophyprofessor.com/philosophies/four-humors.php
Choleric, as in something related to cholera perhaps? Then there's phlegmatic, as in phlegm.
These relate to what were the four "humors" in early physiology. Phlegm is the one of the four humors in early physiology that was considered to be cold and moist and to cause sluggishness. The four humors are: blood, black bile, yellow bile, and phlegm. Of course, when referring to personality types, the reference is to Galen's four temperaments (in 190 A.D.): sanguine, melancholic, choleric, and phlegmatic. See the chart in the following link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_humours
SEE ALSO: http://www.philosophyprofessor.com/philosophies/four-humors.php
He a spitter! LOL!
classic case of someone wanting to appear smart because they know in their heart they dont measure up. (how is that for a little psycho-babbel?)
He a spitter! LOL!
classic case of someone wanting to appear smart because they know in their heart they dont measure up. (how is that for a little psycho-babbel?)Or simply relying on worldly "wisdom" instead of the truth of God's word.
RevDWW
02-15-2007, 10:45 AM
I think whoever came up with this personality trait thing was a big fat show off. I mean I cant spell a single one of them! Im not even sure I can pronounce them either.
what in the world is a choloric????? good grief (yea i realize i didnt spell it right)! give me a break, how about coming up with something normal people can relate to like "he smells funny" I understand that.
ROTFL........Dude that is just plain funny!!!!
I submit easily understood personility definitions
-tends to think they know it all
-can be a jerk a lot
-is a pretty nice person
-stay away from this one
ROTFL........Dude that is just plain funny!!!!
I submit easily understood personility definitions
-tends to think they know it all
-can be a jerk a lot
-is a pretty nice person
-stay away from this one
I prefer
-Dude take your meds!
-dont play cards with that one, she cheats!
-7 words: sneek up on a bar of soap!
RevDWW
02-15-2007, 10:52 AM
I prefer
-Dude take your meds!
-dont play cards with that one, she cheats!
-7 words: sneek up on a bar of soap!
You have a way with words!
You have a way with words!
thank you.... they have been kind to me.
Rhoni
02-15-2007, 10:54 AM
He a spitter! LOL!
classic case of someone wanting to appear smart because they know in their heart they dont measure up. (how is that for a little psycho-babbel?)
:ty :killinme :killinme :killinme :killinme
Doesnt colera give you Diarrhea?
Bryan
02-15-2007, 11:09 AM
where can I take this personality test online?
where can I take this personality test online?
dude, just smell you arm pit. if you stink, you probaly need to see a shrink.
Bryan
02-15-2007, 11:15 AM
dude, just smell you arm pit. if you stink, you probaly need to see a shrink.
:eek:
Esther
02-15-2007, 12:18 PM
I know one thing. Understanding your customer and their specific personality traits is a must.
See when you earn your living by selling to people.
You will learn how to deal with folks on the spot.
Or you will not earn a living.
I think being in sales for 10 plus years is setting me up to be very successful in a ministry.
You will get to know traits in a person upon meeting them.
Otherwise if you don't learn their traits you do not know how to adjust yours to work with them.
Have you ever known someone to just be able to make everyone feel comfortable?
If they are in the ministry they become very effective.
The ministers who do not have enough of this or enough of that...In my book they just are not good studies of human character.
I think that hurts their effectiveness....
Nathan Eckstadt
This is true. Are you familiar with the reading of a persons face? I have heard salesmen use this.
Example given me was if a person's forehead slants back then you aren't going to get anything over on them. They have a sharp mind.
LadyChocolate
02-15-2007, 12:24 PM
Just a little thought for those of you who like to read people....It doesn't always work....I have been misread many of times and people think they know me and they really don't have a clue about me....
someone I know is like soooooooooo into this personality thing that when my husband and I told them that one of our dreams was to live in a log home in the mountains, they argued with us and said we weren't log home people. I laughed soo hard...WE've planned on living that dream more than anyother and then someone wants to tell us that that isn't us and we aren't log home people....lolol....and this person claims that he reads people like a book. Just be careful....You can generally tell what type of people you are dealing with but don't assume you know a person just because they show a few traits of some plegcholersangmel attribute......
Esther
02-15-2007, 12:30 PM
Just a little thought for those of you who like to read people....It doesn't always work....I have been misread many of times and people think they know me and they really don't have a clue about me....
someone I know is like soooooooooo into this personality thing that when my husband and I told them that one of our dreams was to live in a log home in the mountains, they argued with us and said we weren't log home people. I laughed soo hard...WE've planned on living that dream more than anyother and then someone wants to tell us that that isn't us and we aren't log home people....lolol....and this person claims that he reads people like a book. Just be careful....You can generally tell what type of people you are dealing with but don't assume you know a person just because they show a few traits of some plegcholersangmel attribute......
I think part of the problem is not all the testing is equal. And not all testers are honest in their answers, which will throw the test.
Most people are not full fledge of any temperament. A few are but most of us are a blend.
I have studied the temperaments and have seen where there are advantages is using them. Like determining the field of someone going to work.
But again as I said before it means nothing if the tester doesn't answer the questions honestly. For some reason we seem to think we should answer according to our perception of what a good answer would be.
JMO
Margies3
02-15-2007, 12:42 PM
Our youth pastor recently resigned, so we are looking to hire a new one. When the Church Board sat down to figure what questions they wanted to ask of any applicants, one of the things they decided to do is to give every applicant a personality profile test. The last guy we had was soooooooo shy and unsure of himself, it was pitiful. We need someone who is much more outgoing and confident. They think they will be able to determine that better with the test. We'll see
Warmbee
02-15-2007, 12:53 PM
I have been thinking about peoples ability as it relates to God and service in the church. This Sunday my pastor made a comment in his sermon that has really been with me, kind of connecting the dots. He said that often times you find someone with less ability working in a church while a real talent sits on the pew. The difference is one stepped up.
That got me thinking about the bible and the people God used. Samuel was an orphan. David was a kid with much more talented, stronger, OLDER brothers. Gideon was a nobody afraid of his own shadow. Peter was “an ignorant and unlearned man”….and a loudmouth coward…. Paul was a murderer….What was it about these guys that made them so used? I think really their common ability was availability.
My pastor has preached about people having talent, but because they are unfaithful he will not use them and instead will use someone with less talent because they are faithful and do the job giving God the glory. He's told stories of people actually getting mad because he wouldn't give them an invitation to sing a solo or somthing when they had an awesome voice.
I do agree that there are people that could be used, but don't either step up or have the availabity. Sometimes (well, actually alot lately) I feel that with me having a full time 9-5 it limits my availability to do God's work, I get really upset cause I know that I have talents that he's given me and I want to put them in use, but my schedule limits me SOOOO badly. (here I'm getting upset just thinking of it) The Lord has given me a great ability to go out and teach bible studies and win souls... but my only availability is at night and that doesn't leave much open.... oh well, I know he'll open up a door when the time is right, he IS an on time God.
..... I talk alot:heeheehee
LadyChocolate
02-15-2007, 01:11 PM
I think part of the problem is not all the testing is equal. And not all testers are honest in their answers, which will throw the test.
Most people are not full fledge of any temperament. A few are but most of us are a blend.
I have studied the temperaments and have seen where there are advantages is using them. Like determining the field of someone going to work.
But again as I said before it means nothing if the tester doesn't answer the questions honestly. For some reason we seem to think we should answer according to our perception of what a good answer would be.
JMO
Right....the "tests" we took showed that most people were a combo of 2 out of the 4. My husband was one that they knew they had figured out. They tried to tell him what he was by what they see. I found it hilarious because I knew him and they were soo off but they insisted they knew what they were talking about.....lol....some people just don't get it.
COOPER
02-15-2007, 01:27 PM
I told them that one of our dreams was to live in a log home in the mountains, ......
My wife and I love Log Homes!!!:highfive
Esther
02-15-2007, 01:43 PM
Right....the "tests" we took showed that most people were a combo of 2 out of the 4. My husband was one that they knew they had figured out. They tried to tell him what he was by what they see. I found it hilarious because I knew him and they were soo off but they insisted they knew what they were talking about.....lol....some people just don't get it.
Actually, you can be a blend of more than 2.
I know I am a blend of 3. Woe is me. :)
Our youth pastor recently resigned, so we are looking to hire a new one. When the Church Board sat down to figure what questions they wanted to ask of any applicants, one of the things they decided to do is to give every applicant a personality profile test. The last guy we had was soooooooo shy and unsure of himself, it was pitiful. We need someone who is much more outgoing and confident. They think they will be able to determine that better with the test. We'll see
having been one for most of the last 15 years, two things come to my mind about what makes an effective youth pastor.
you want someone who is crazy wild. someone with a HUGE personality and you want someone that loves God.
You find that guy, hire him.
My pastor has preached about people having talent, but because they are unfaithful he will not use them and instead will use someone with less talent because they are faithful and do the job giving God the glory. He's told stories of people actually getting mad because he wouldn't give them an invitation to sing a solo or somthing when they had an awesome voice.
I do agree that there are people that could be used, but don't either step up or have the availabity. Sometimes (well, actually alot lately) I feel that with me having a full time 9-5 it limits my availability to do God's work, I get really upset cause I know that I have talents that he's given me and I want to put them in use, but my schedule limits me SOOOO badly. (here I'm getting upset just thinking of it) The Lord has given me a great ability to go out and teach bible studies and win souls... but my only availability is at night and that doesn't leave much open.... oh well, I know he'll open up a door when the time is right, he IS an on time God.
..... I talk alot:heeheehee
I like you. just stay availible to God. He will do His part.
Actually, you can be a blend of more than 2.
I know I am a blend of 3. Woe is me. :)
I am a blend of blood and guts. I dont have a problem with that.
Esther
02-15-2007, 02:04 PM
I am a blend of blood and guts. I dont have a problem with that.
And I'm not gonna ask which is the most either. ;)
LadyChocolate
02-15-2007, 02:41 PM
My wife and I love Log Homes!!!:highfive
have you seen the white logs?/? they are beautiful! Very classsy and still has the rustic charm........
Apostolic Kitty
02-15-2007, 02:43 PM
I think whoever came up with this personality trait thing was a big fat show off. I mean I cant spell a single one of them! Im not even sure I can pronounce them either.
what in the world is a choloric????? good grief (yea i realize i didnt spell it right)! give me a break, how about coming up with something normal people can relate to like "he smells funny" I understand that.
I looked up the "he smells funny" personality information and found that it says "reserved for Ferd" next to it... :bliss
Jekyll
02-15-2007, 02:44 PM
My pastor has preached about people having talent, but because they are unfaithful he will not use them and instead will use someone with less talent because they are faithful and do the job giving God the glory. He's told stories of people actually getting mad because he wouldn't give them an invitation to sing a solo or somthing when they had an awesome voice.
I do agree that there are people that could be used, but don't either step up or have the availabity. Sometimes (well, actually alot lately) I feel that with me having a full time 9-5 it limits my availability to do God's work, I get really upset cause I know that I have talents that he's given me and I want to put them in use, but my schedule limits me SOOOO badly. (here I'm getting upset just thinking of it) The Lord has given me a great ability to go out and teach bible studies and win souls... but my only availability is at night and that doesn't leave much open.... oh well, I know he'll open up a door when the time is right, he IS an on time God.
..... I talk alot:heeheehee
GOODNESS!!!
I guess so...:ranting
:bliss
I looked up the "he smells funny" personality information and found that it says "reserved for Ferd" next to it... :bliss
be nice my cat died today!
GOODNESS!!!
I guess so...:ranting
:bliss
please be carefull, this is the largest thread Ive ever had, your posting could cause an untimely demise.
Jekyll
02-15-2007, 02:50 PM
please be carefull, this is the largest thread Ive ever had, your posting could cause an untimely demise.
Have you ever had a stalker??? :evilglee
Have you ever had a stalker??? :evilglee
I have found the best way to deal with a stalker is to return the favor.
Esther
02-15-2007, 02:52 PM
I looked up the "he smells funny" personality information and found that it says "reserved for Ferd" next to it... :bliss
:bliss
Esther
02-15-2007, 02:52 PM
be nice my cat died today!
So sorry to hear that.
I love pets. :)
Apostolic Kitty
02-15-2007, 02:53 PM
Our youth pastor recently resigned, so we are looking to hire a new one. When the Church Board sat down to figure what questions they wanted to ask of any applicants, one of the things they decided to do is to give every applicant a personality profile test. The last guy we had was soooooooo shy and unsure of himself, it was pitiful. We need someone who is much more outgoing and confident. They think they will be able to determine that better with the test. We'll see
How about they pray and fast and let God send them the right person? This sounds more like a corporation's way of hiring new employees rather than the church's way of finding the right youth pastor...
How about they pray and fast and let God send them the right person? This sounds more like a corporation's way of hiring new employees rather than the church's way of finding the right youth pastor...
I hate to tell you this, but while praying and fasting are required when looking for ministry, so is LOOKING....
Apostolic Kitty
02-15-2007, 02:57 PM
My husband was one that they knew they had figured out. They tried to tell him what he was by what they see. I found it hilarious because I knew him and they were soo off but they insisted they knew what they were talking about.....lol....some people just don't get it.
Haha... A lot of people like to think they have a clue about my husband, too... Not many people really know him though. We've been married almost eight years and he's kinda like a gift that you have to keep unwrapping because there are so many layers of packaging... And after each layer there's a neat -- or sometimes not-so-neat -- surprise. Most people don't get past the first layer or two.
Apostolic Kitty
02-15-2007, 03:01 PM
be nice my cat died today!
Are you for real? :( If so, I'm sorry.
Apostolic Kitty
02-15-2007, 03:03 PM
I hate to tell you this, but while praying and fasting are required when looking for ministry, so is LOOKING....
Ferd, I'm not stupid. I am aware that you have seek something in order to find it. My comment was about using a personality test as a means to find that person. You can still look while praying and fasting and know that person is right or wrong because of God's witness in your spirit. I'm sure you are aware of that, too...
Warmbee
02-15-2007, 03:05 PM
I like you. just stay availible to God. He will do His part.
awwww, thanks:blush
Are you for real? :( If so, I'm sorry.
yup the little one Isabella passed in the night. the big one Ferdinand is still alive and attacking everything.
My greatest attribute is:
PERSISTENCE
My greatest flaw is:
PERSISTENCE
RevDWW
02-15-2007, 04:29 PM
Sometimes (well, actually alot lately) I feel that with me having a full time 9-5 it limits my availability to do God's work, I get really upset cause I know that I have talents that he's given me and I want to put them in use, but my schedule limits me SOOOO badly. (here I'm getting upset just thinking of it) The Lord has given me a great ability to go out and teach bible studies and win souls... but my only availability is at night and that doesn't leave much open.... oh well, I know he'll open up a door when the time is right, he IS an on time God.
..... I talk alot:heeheehee
How about getting a lunch time Bible study going? Or on the weekend? Or right after work?
Warmbee
02-16-2007, 10:10 AM
I usually do them after work, but another part of it is going out doorknocking to get people into bible studies.... I used to work a really flexible job and would go out at least 3 hours a week and at that time I had at least 2 bible studies every week, now I can go out for maybe an hour on saturdays and I only have one bible study. Also, now most of the possibilities are coming from the brothers doorknocking and getting lady bible studies that they hand over to me, not me going out and having so many that I need to find other people to teach. I dunno, I talked to my roomie last night and she said the Lord knows my heart, he has given me the talent, and he will provide for me to be able to get out like I used to. I just wish it were sooner than later, I love going out and winning souls. Everytime a door opens and somebody says "yes, I'd like to go to church" or "yes, I think I would like a bible study, let's set it up" it increases my burden, gives me more joy, and allows me to see God's work on the front lines.... again I say, I talk too much (I should make that my siggy:tease )
Warmbee
02-16-2007, 10:13 AM
Oh, forgot to mention.... an old friend of mines agreed to have a bible study on Sunday afternoon, I'm gonna add her to the prayer thread cause her situation is pretty bad, but she said she'll do the bible study and I'm SOOO excited. We'd bumped into her while doorknocking over a month ago and this is some pretty good progress:woot
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