Do you really know how to grow churches?

[Rhoni]

I have observed many churches in the past decade and I know for a fact that not many people know how to grow a church, mentor leadership, and empower the people into taking pride in their church through exercising their gifts. I see so much potential but not enough people willing to give up control enough to let God move? What is this about? How do you think churches should be grown? How do you grow your church?

Blessings, Rhoni

[whollyHis]

I have observed many churches in the past decade and I know for a fact that not many people know how to grow a church, mentor leadership, and empower the people into taking pride in their church through exercising their gifts. I see so much potential but not enough people willing to give up control enough to let God move? What is this about? How do you think churches should be grown? How do you grow your church?

Blessings, Rhoni


There's a hint in these few words that will tell us the reason that some churches are NOT growing...*smile*
YES, I AM being bad....

[Chan]

I have observed many churches in the past decade and I know for a fact that not many people know how to grow a church, mentor leadership, and empower the people into taking pride in their church through exercising their gifts. I see so much potential but not enough people willing to give up control enough to let God move? What is this about? How do you think churches should be grown? How do you grow your church?

Blessings, RhoniPaul planted, Apollos watered but it was God who gave the increase. I think that is the best model for church growth.

[AmazingGrace]

BINGO!!!! One of the first things is to remember its not YOUR church in the first place...

And ohhhhhhh shall I count the ways!!!!

DO NOT go do a fancy fancy decor job and all the goodies on a building if your a small church.... start out small but nice. Yes a church can be nice without going overboard... in a couple of years then go thru and redecorate and make it look better but dont spend tons of money you dont have and then get in financial messes...

I know this wasnt the kind of things Rhoni was asking for but thats the one that rings loudest in my mind right this moment...

The rest I will keep to myself for now... (yall so dont want into this brain of mine LOL)

[Rhoni]

There's a hint in these few words that will tell us the reason that some churches are NOT growing...*smile*
YES, I AM being bad....

Yes, you are intuitive...what I was thinking was built on the word: CONTROL

The John Maxwell series on leadership was an excellent example of how to grow churches...it is to grow LEADERS.

Momentum is lost if you have to go through more than one supervisor to get anything accomplished. When you structure the church so that no person has any authority to utilize their gifts/talents withouth going to one leader, who has to go to another leader, who has to go to another leaders, who has to go to one more leader to get permission to accomplish something that could have happened in 5 minutes with the right person.

Another thing: A 6-7 level leader cannot have any leaders above them who are 8-10 leaders. 6-7 level leaders need people working under them that look to leadership as a God and can't move without asking persmission, and who pat the leader on the back constantly,; whereas, a 10 leader will not have CONTROL issues, will not want to be indisposable but will mentor leaders and trust them to do what they are gifted to do with little to no supervision.

Good leaders mentor leaders who will eventually replace them. Good leaders want to be replaced. It reminds me of a Missions class I took at JCM, The Indigenous Church. I practiced this when I went to my first church post Bible College...I grew them a deaf ministry that would continue in my abscence. I grew gifted and talented leaders to take my place so that when I left they still had an active Deaf Ministry.

With this said, many church leaders feel and handicap people into dependence so that if they leave people cannot continue on...this is sad. We should get ego out of the way, relinguish control issues, and mentor leaders that take our place in the future or leave and grow their own leaders...

Blessings, Rhoni

[AmazingGrace]

Yes, you are intuitive...what I was thinking was built on the word: CONTROL

The John Maxwell series on leadership was an excellent example of how to grow churches...it is to grow LEADERS.

Momentum is lost if you have to go through more than one supervisor to get anything accomplished. When you structure the church so that no person has any authority to utilize their gifts/talents withouth going to one leader, who has to go to another leader, who has to go to another leaders, who has to go to one more leader to get permission to accomplish something that could have happened in 5 minutes with the right person.

Another thing: A 6-7 level leader cannot have any leaders above them who are 8-10 leaders. 6-7 level leaders need people working under them that look to leadership as a God and can't move without asking persmission, and who pat the leader on the back constantly,; whereas, a 10 leader will not have CONTROL issues, will not want to be indisposable but will mentor leaders and trust them to do what they are gifted to do with little to no supervision.

Good leaders mentor leaders who will eventually replace them. Good leaders want to be replaced. It reminds me of a Missions class I took at JCM, The Indigenous Church. I practiced this when I went to my first church post Bible College...I grew them a deaf ministry that would continue in my abscence. I grew gifted and talented leaders to take my place so that when I left they still had an active Deaf Ministry.

With this said, many church leaders feel and handicap people into dependence so that if they leave people cannot continue on...this is sad. We should get ego out of the way, relinguish control issues, and mentor leaders that take our place in the future or leave and grow their own leaders...

Blessings, Rhoni



This is so so true.... The church we worked at in La... this was the case and horribly so. The pastor was mentoring the men... he was growing up leaders he thought... my husband always felt so bound there though because he just didnt seem to want them to be able to go outside of those 4 walls... to the point of when my husband would get calls to come preach out he would be very very hesitant to tell him of the calls... as he was with all of the young men...

When we were there this last time...for a visit I was informed that they had no services the week prior to us coming and when I asked the pastors wife why she said oh we had to go to Dallas on business...

Rhoni.... as she told me this he had 5 young preachers 2 newly licensed sitting on his platform..... but he keeps them so much under lock and key and such a control freak that they didnt feel they could conduct services on their own with him away?!?!?!

These people need to be mentored and it needs to be done in a way that these things will carry on when the one mentoring in whatever area leaves... but not just that... they need to be used before that person is gone so that they have that confidence in their ability....

Just as I noticed and I was so glad to see that when you spoke to your sign class yesterday you spoke it with much confidence that you were leaving..... in charge of the interpreting while you were gone for your sons wedding... A ministry you can leave in the hands of someone else for long or short tterm with confidence is a ministry well built and founded!!!!

[Rhoni]

I'd love to be turned loose in a church that really wants to grow...*sigh*

[whollyHis]

This is so so true.... The church we worked at in La... this was the case and horribly so. The pastor was mentoring the men... he was growing up leaders he thought... my husband always felt so bound there though because he just didnt seem to want them to be able to go outside of those 4 walls... to the point of when my husband would get calls to come preach out he would be very very hesitant to tell him of the calls... as he was with all of the young men...

When we were there this last time...for a visit I was informed that they had no services the week prior to us coming and when I asked the pastors wife why she said oh we had to go to Dallas on business...

Rhoni.... as she told me this he had 5 young preachers 2 newly licensed sitting on his platform..... but he keeps them so much under lock and key and such a control freak that they didnt feel they could conduct services on their own with him away?!?!?!

These people need to be mentored and it needs to be done in a way that these things will carry on when the one mentoring in whatever area leaves... but not just that... they need to be used before that person is gone so that they have that confidence in their ability....

Just as I noticed and I was so glad to see that when you spoke to your sign class yesterday you spoke it with much confidence that you were leaving..... in charge of the interpreting while you were gone for your sons wedding... A ministry you can leave in the hands of someone else for long or short tterm with confidence is a ministry well built and founded!!!!


If a lay minister is spiritual enough for you to use him to go to prisons and nursing homes, why isn't he spiritual enough to handle a Weds. night Bible Class while pastor is out of town??

Our church dismisses when Pastor and/ or Assistant (his son) is out of town. We have no less than 5-6 'lay' ministers in our congregation...I don't get it...

[Rhoni]

This is so so true.... The church we worked at in La... this was the case and horribly so. The pastor was mentoring the men... he was growing up leaders he thought... my husband always felt so bound there though because he just didnt seem to want them to be able to go outside of those 4 walls... to the point of when my husband would get calls to come preach out he would be very very hesitant to tell him of the calls... as he was with all of the young men...

When we were there this last time...for a visit I was informed that they had no services the week prior to us coming and when I asked the pastors wife why she said oh we had to go to Dallas on business...

Rhoni.... as she told me this he had 5 young preachers 2 newly licensed sitting on his platform..... but he keeps them so much under lock and key and such a control freak that they didnt feel they could conduct services on their own with him away?!?!?!

These people need to be mentored and it needs to be done in a way that these things will carry on when the one mentoring in whatever area leaves... but not just that... they need to be used before that person is gone so that they have that confidence in their ability....

Just as I noticed and I was so glad to see that when you spoke to your sign class yesterday you spoke it with much confidence that you were leaving..... in charge of the interpreting while you were gone for your sons wedding... A ministry you can leave in the hands of someone else for long or short tterm with confidence is a ministry well built and founded!!!!

Thank-you! Notice I left her in charge and gave her resources if she needed them;)! I will not go back and bug her about it either...she'll do fine...I trust her to do the best job she can do. Another might do it better but with less enthusiasm and have to be begged;)!

Blessings, Rhoni

[Rhoni]

Other opnions welcome

[Rhoni]

If a lay minister is spiritual enough for you to use him to go to prisons and nursing homes, why isn't he spiritual enough to handle a Weds. night Bible Class while pastor is out of town??

Our church dismisses when Pastor and/ or Assistant (his son) is out of town. We have no less than 5-6 'lay' ministers in our congregation...I don't get it...

CONTROL

[AmazingGrace]

Thank-you! Notice I left her in charge and gave her resources if she needed them;)! I will not go back and bug her about it either...she'll do fine...I trust her to do the best job she can do. Another might do it better but with less enthusiasm and have to be begged;)!

Blessings, Rhoni



You know what else I noticed? Her smile changed a lot when you did that also... she had a walk and attitude of sheer confidence... and when she was signing she looked at me once when she messed up and kind of shrugged and all I did was wink at her and she kept on and as we were leaving she said she was glad to have me and then paused and said... thanks... it was a given... I didnt have to say thanks for what.... I didnt have to say a word... All I said is you will do wonderful and she smiled and walked on....

She is the right one! I agree with begging the other one.. It will not be worth it.. and I also noticed that Victor seems to be responding more... he smiles now when you are signing and he seems to be more alert of his surroundings.. one time when she seemed to lose track he helped her and had a huge smile after doing so.... this is a good thing and something I have to say you are doing much better then has ever been done there and with much more grace and I am not saying that just because you are my friend.. I am saying this because I have been a part of that church since I was 4 yrs old and I have seen these things come and go and none done with quiet the manner and dignity that it is now being handled. :highfive

[Rhoni]

You know what else I noticed? Her smile changed a lot when you did that also... she had a walk and attitude of sheer confidence... and when she was signing she looked at me once when she messed up and kind of shrugged and all I did was wink at her and she kept on and as we were leaving she said she was glad to have me and then paused and said... thanks... it was a given... I didnt have to say thanks for what.... I didnt have to say a word... All I said is you will do wonderful and she smiled and walked on....

She is the right one! I agree with begging the other one.. It will not be worth it.. and I also noticed that Victor seems to be responding more... he smiles now when you are signing and he seems to be more alert of his surroundings.. one time when she seemed to lose track he helped her and had a huge smile after doing so.... this is a good thing and something I have to say you are doing much better then has ever been done there and with much more grace and I am not saying that just because you are my friend.. I am saying this because I have been a part of that church since I was 4 yrs old and I have seen these things come and go and none done with quiet the manner and dignity that it is now being handled. :highfive

*pass the tissues*..Now I'll never get anything accomplished tonight...stop that!

[AmazingGrace]

*pass the tissues*..Now I'll never get anything accomplished tonight...stop that!


sniff sniff.... I will try.... its the truth!!!!

[RevDWW]

You can really grow a church with love, compassion, and passion!

[Rhoni]

You can really grow a church with love, compassion, and passion!

:highfive I will have to add...the passion has to have the right direction;)!

Blessings, Rhoni

[RevDWW]

Misdirected or misguided passion will not grow a church!
If you're not going the right direction repentance is in order..........


Love for all mankind.
Compassion for the sick, wounded, and hurting.
Passion for His kingdom

[Neck]

I have observed many churches in the past decade and I know for a fact that not many people know how to grow a church, mentor leadership, and empower the people into taking pride in their church through exercising their gifts. I see so much potential but not enough people willing to give up control enough to let God move? What is this about? How do you think churches should be grown? How do you grow your church?

Blessings, Rhoni

Rhoni,
The comments I made in the other thread. Are actually inline with your observations. I think your views come from a solid foundation and much experience.

Sincerely,

Nathan Eckstadt

[Rhoni]

Rhoni,
The comments I made in the other thread. Are actually inline with your observations. I think your views come from a solid foundation and much experience.

Sincerely,

Nathan Eckstadt

:ty

Blessings, Rhoni

[Rhoni]

Community outreach is reaching out to the community with help for the homeless, those without food, clothing, and shelter...when you do things for such as these you have done it unto Christ.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Felicity]

God grows churches by sovereign moves of His Spirit - and He works within and particular to the framework of time, place, and situation. We must use every available means to win people. There's no excuse for doing nothing or sitting back on our haunches waiting for a move of God. We have to work while it's day but at the same time I've seen in every church we've been in God just moved by His Spirit sovereignly ushering in a whole wave of new people.

"Cast your bread upon the waters" is a scripture I always think about in regard to reaching people with the message of salvation. God will honour our sincere attempts at evangelism within our communities but I do think sometimes a lot of energy goes into some programs that yield little if any result.

We need to be wise and be led by the Spirit in regard to how we go about reaching out to people. Not every method will work in every community or for every church. God works with us as individuals and in our individual situations.

Just a few thots....... :)

[Rhoni]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esther
There are a lot of valid post on this thread.

Every individual and every situation can not be given a specific answer. Each situation has varying degrees.

1. If you are not faithful to attend service, you are not likely to be used.

2. It is common for pastors to use the same ones, because they feel they KNOW who will get the job done. Although, there is some merit to that, it can also cause harm in not giving others a chance.

3. Many pastors do not understand the importance of using people according to their temperaments. The very one that is most qualified to lead, appears to be the most threatening and scares an insecure pastor.

4. As Ferd mentioned, you can let your pastor know you are dependable by staying to help clean up after an event, without being asked.

5. As Barb mentioned there are ways to help that doesn't require permission.

Just a few thoughts.

Esther,

This is exactly what John Maxwell says. A level 6-7 Pastor will not use a 10 leader related to the intimidation factor. It is their own issue of insecurity and not that of the 10 person/leader wanting to be used. This is sad for all those truly gifted who have desire to be used.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Rhoni]

God grows churches by sovereign moves of His Spirit - and He works within and particular to the framework of time, place, and situation. We must use every available means to win people. There's no excuse for doing nothing or sitting back on our haunches waiting for a move of God. We have to work while it's day but at the same time I've seen in every church we've been in God just moved by His Spirit sovereignly ushering in a whole wave of new people.

"Cast your bread upon the waters" is a scripture I always think about in regard to reaching people with the message of salvation. God will honour our sincere attempts at evangelism within our communities but I do think sometimes a lot of energy goes into some programs that yield little if any result.

We need to be wise and be led by the Spirit in regard to how we go about reaching out to people. Not every method will work in every community or for every church. God works with us as individuals and in our individual situations.

Just a few thots....... :)


:ty Great thoughts and you are right...churches have individual needs and personalities just as people do. What works for one isn't necessarily what will work for the other!

Blessings, Rhoni

[Felicity]

ATTENTION!!

We need someone to oversee two kitchens - one is a large commercial type kitchen in our Family Life Center. It's beautiful and has just about everything a person could wish for.

The other is a more typical Church kitchen in the lower level of the sanctuary - again fully stocked with everything you can think of.

This will be a "volunteer" type of job/position. All interested parties please PM either I or TB. ;)

There will be certain perks -- one being the opportunity to live in one of the most beautiful places in the world. Another the opportunity to serve in other areas as well and to sit under some good preaching. Ability to work in the altar would be an asset!

Hehe. :)

[Rhoni]

ATTENTION!!

We need someone to oversee two kitchens - one is a large commercial type kitchen in our Family Life Center. It's beautiful and has just about everything a person could wish for.

The other is a more typical Church kitchen in the lower level of the sanctuary - again fully stocked with everything you can think of.

This will be a "volunteer" type of job/position. All interested parties please PM either I or TB. ;)

There will be certain perks -- one being the opportunity to live in one of the most beautiful places in the world. Another the opportunity to serve in other areas as well and to sit under some good preaching. Ability to work in the altar would be an asset!

Hehe. :)

TB & Felicity,

I am not so good in the kitchen, but if you need a staff counselor, Adult Bible teacher, and an altar worker...I may apply for the job!:ty

Blessings, Rhoni

[Falla39]

God grows churches by sovereign moves of His Spirit - and He works within and particular to the framework of time, place, and situation. We must use every available means to win people. There's no excuse for doing nothing or sitting back on our haunches waiting for a move of God. We have to work while it's day but at the same time I've seen in every church we've been in God just moved by His Spirit sovereignly ushering in a whole wave of new people.

"Cast your bread upon the waters" is a scripture I always think about in regard to reaching people with the message of salvation. God will honour our sincere attempts at evangelism within our communities but I do think sometimes a lot of energy goes into some programs that yield little if any result.

We need to be wise and be led by the Spirit in regard to how we go about reaching out to people. Not every method will work in every community or for every church. God works with us as individuals and in our individual situations.

Just a few thots....... :)


And good thoughts, Sis. Felicity,:highfive

A triple AMEN to the being wise (if lacking, ask of God, who gives

liberally), and being led by the Spirit of God! If there is a

feeling of not being able to be led by the Holy Ghost (Spirit),

we must check the plug in and make sure our connection hasn't

been broken. Sometimes my computer doesn't seem to be doing

right. My expert tech sons tell me, "Mom, why don't you just turn

it off and re-boot. That may clear up your problem". Sometimes

we just need to turn everything off, make sure there is no inter-

ference between us and the MAIN SOURCE of POWER!!! Then

RE-CONNECT, Make sure we have a good connection with Him

and then allow (let, or permit) the FLOW to come FROM HIM

through us (conduit) to others. I do not want to be battery-

operated but be connected to the MAIN SOURCE of POWER, the

HOLY GHOST. The Spirit of Almighty God!!

Just thinking out loud!!

Blessings,

Falla39

[Rhoni]

And good thoughts, Sis. Felicity,:highfive

A triple AMEN to the being wise (if lacking, ask of God, who gives

liberally), and being led by the Spirit of God! If there is a

feeling of not being able to be led by the Holy Ghost (Spirit),

we must check the plug in and make sure our connection hasn't

been broken. Sometimes my computer doesn't seem to be doing

right. My expert tech sons tell me, "Mom, why don't you just turn

it off and re-boot. That may clear up your problem". Sometimes

we just need to turn everything off, make sure there is no inter-

ference between us and the MAIN SOURCE of POWER!!! Then

RE-CONNECT, Make sure we have a good connection with Him

and then allow (let, or permit) the FLOW to come FROM HIM

through us (conduit) to others. I do not want to be battery-

operated but be connected to the MAIN SOURCE of POWER, the

HOLY GHOST. The Spirit of Almighty God!!

Just thinking out loud!!

Blessings,

Falla39

:highfive AWESOME

[Felicity]

TB & Felicity,

I am not so good in the kitchen, but if you need a staff counselor, Adult Bible teacher, and an altar worker...I may apply for the job!:ty

Blessings, RhoniDo you think you could work with the pastor's wife? LOL. ;) :)

[Rhoni]

Do you think you could work with the pastor's wife? LOL. ;) :)

She would be a joy...we would get along famously! I have a burden to be Pastor's wife's armour bearer...nobody would get to her without going through me and the blood of Jesus!:drawguns

Blessings, Rhoni:praying

[Falla39]

:highfive AWESOME

Thank you, Sis. Rhoni,

Blessings,

Falla39

[Felicity]

And good thoughts, Sis. Felicity,:highfive

A triple AMEN to the being wise (if lacking, ask of God, who gives

liberally), and being led by the Spirit of God! If there is a

feeling of not being able to be led by the Holy Ghost (Spirit),

we must check the plug in and make sure our connection hasn't

been broken. Sometimes my computer doesn't seem to be doing

right. My expert tech sons tell me, "Mom, why don't you just turn

it off and re-boot. That may clear up your problem". Sometimes

we just need to turn everything off, make sure there is no inter-

ference between us and the MAIN SOURCE of POWER!!! Then

RE-CONNECT, Make sure we have a good connection with Him

and then allow (let, or permit) the FLOW to come FROM HIM

through us (conduit) to others. I do not want to be battery-

operated but be connected to the MAIN SOURCE of POWER, the

HOLY GHOST. The Spirit of Almighty God!!

Just thinking out loud!!

Blessings,

Falla39Thanks for this Sis. Excellent! :highfive

[Falla39]

:bliss Thanks for this Sis. Excellent! :highfive

Thank you, Sis. Felicity,

Your thoughts made me think!!!:bliss :bliss

You are being effective when you are able to

provoke others to think!! :bliss :bliss

Blessings,

Falla39

[Felicity]

:bliss

Thank you, Sis. Felicity,

Your thoughts made me think!!!:bliss :bliss

You are being effective when you are able to

provoke others to think!! :bliss :bliss

Blessings,

Falla39And to good works!

Hbr 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

:)

[Rhoni]

The Bible says, He who winneth souls is wise......you have to be wise to grow churches...it is more than being a good Christian and hanging a shingle.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Falla39]

And to good works!

Hbr 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

:)


Amen!! That's the word I thought of when

I started to send that last post! Perhaps we

are all PROVOKING one another unto love and

good works on this forum!!! If it is received in

love and in the spirit is is given, it will!!!! !:bliss :bliss

Blessings,

Falla39

[Felicity]

Bottom line might be right here .........

Psa 127:1 Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it:

[Falla39]

Bottom line might be right here .........

Psa 127:1 Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it:


Sis. Felicity,

I believe you hit the nail right on the head!! Also

"except the Lord keep the city, the watchman waketh

but in vain". Nothing like the good Word of God, is there!!

Blessings,

Falla39

[Charlie Brown]

Churches can do nothing less than grow when good seed is sown into receptive hearts.

[Felicity]

Sis. Felicity,

I believe you hit the nail right on the head!! Also

"except the Lord keep the city, the watchman waketh

but in vain". Nothing like the good Word of God, is there!!

Blessings,

Falla39Thanks for completing the scripture for me sis. :highfive

[Falla39]

Churches can do nothing less than grow when good seed is sown into receptive hearts.

Bro. Charlie Brown,

That is SO true! Good ground (hearts) and good seed (Word of God)

will produce results every time!

Blessings,

Falla39

[Falla39]

Thanks for completing the scripture for me sis. :highfive


You are welcome! My late dad was so insistant that we learn

to quote scripture correctly that once when a visitor came with

my sister in law to church, heard me quietly quoting along with

my dad, asked my SIL if I helped prepare Bro. B's sermons. She

thought I knew the scriptures because I had helped him with his

sermon. If she had only known the years Dad had invested in

sowing the seed of the Word of God into our young hearts, in the

home (family alter) and from the pulpit!! I thank God for that today.

Dad has been gone for a long time but the seed sown has germinated

and now comes out of my mouth, sowing to my own children and

grandchildren!! Just keeps on reproducing! The Word of God is quick

and powerful and is energetic!!!

Blessings,

Falla39

[Rhoni]

You are welcome! My late dad was so insistant that we learn

to quote scripture correctly that once when a visitor came with

my sister in law to church, heard me quietly quoting along with

my dad, asked my SIL if I helped prepare Bro. B's sermons. She

thought I knew the scriptures because I had helped him with his

sermon. If she had only known the years Dad had invested in

sowing the seed of the Word of God into our young hearts, in the

home (family alter) and from the pulpit!! I thank God for that today.

Dad has been gone for a long time but the seed sown has germinated

and now comes out of my mouth, sowing to my own children and

grandchildren!! Just keeps on reproducing! The Word of God is quick

and powerful and is energetic!!!

Blessings,

Falla39

Sis. Falla,

You have a very rich inheritance from your parents...your family I have met are proof of that. I am like you...I loved the word and was on Bible Quiz teams from 12-17. If I had to choose between good music in the church or good teaching/preaching...I'd rather have the word.

Bro. A.D. Spears, back in the 70's, could preach for hours and it seemed but minutes...I hang on to every word the Preacher says...If I can't be fed then there is no use sitting at the table!

Blessings, Rhoni

[Falla39]

Sis. Falla,

You have a very rich inheritance from your parents...your family I have met are proof of that. I am like you...I loved the word and was on Bible Quiz teams from 12-17. If I had to choose between good music in the church or good teaching/preaching...I'd rather have the word.

Bro. A.D. Spears, back in the 70's, could preach for hours and it seemed but minutes...I hang on to every word the Preacher says...If I can't be fed then there is no use sitting at the table!

Blessings, Rhoni

Yes, Sis. Rhoni,

I am so grateful for my heritage! It means more to me today

than ever before!

Did you go to Bro. A.D. Spears church! In Kilgore or Longview!

Yes, we were very priviledged to have been taught God's Word.

Blessings,

Falla39

[Rhoni]

Yes, Sis. Rhoni,

I am so grateful for my heritage! It means more to me today

than ever before!

Did you go to Bro. A.D. Spears church! In Kilgore or Longview!

Yes, we were very priviledged to have been taught God's Word.

Blessings,

Falla39

Sis. Falla,

When I heard Bro. Spears he was evangelizing and holding a revival in Jackson, Mississippi for Bro. Craft. It was my first month [yes - revivals lasted a long time back in the day] of Bible College. I was 17 years old, first time away from home, and very disillusioned with the things I saw going on around me at JCM. My expectations were high for my Bible College experience. I was expecting OHIO BUCKEYE Lake campmeeting 24/7. What I got was similar to my Public High School experience: sex, drugs, cheating, and discrimination.:sad

But Bro. Spears put it all into perspective for me and I grew up a lot at JCM. I realized I had to live for God for myself. I had to cultivate a prayer life of my own and not depend on that of my Prayer Warrior mother. I realized that I was not so outgoing, a bit scared, and more than a little insecure. Not altogether sure where it all came from. I was so secure in my own world in Ohio...but had to learn to find security in God where ever and whom ever I am.

Building churches takes a lot of work and giftedness. I learned though that this was not enough. All the talent and education you may possess is not enough without the blessing and anointing of God. Martha's works, without Mary's relationship cannot a church make. Martha and Mary together can bring in a great harvest.

Love & Blessings, Rhoni

[Falla39]

Sis. Falla,

When I heard Bro. Spears he was evangelizing and holding a revival in Jackson, Mississippi for Bro. Craft. It was my first month [yes - revivals lasted a long time back in the day] of Bible College. I was 17 years old, first time away from home, and very disillusioned with the things I saw going on around me at JCM. My expectations were high for my Bible College experience. I was expecting OHIO BUCKEYE Lake campmeeting 24/7. What I got was similar to my Public High School experience: sex, drugs, cheating, and discrimination.:sad

But Bro. Spears put it all into perspective for me and I grew up a lot at JCM. I realized I had to live for God for myself. I had to cultivate a prayer life of my own and not depend on that of my Prayer Warrior mother. I realized that I was not so outgoing, a bit scared, and more than a little insecure. Not altogether sure where it all came from. I was so secure in my own world in Ohio...but had to learn to find security in God where ever and whom ever I am.

Building churches takes a lot of work and giftedness. I learned though that this was not enough. All the talent and education you may possess is not enough without the blessing and anointing of God. Martha's works, without Mary's relationship cannot a church make. Martha and Mary together can bring in a great harvest.

Love & Blessings, Rhoni


Sis. Rhoni,

Very true!! I recall Sis. Felicity's quoting a verse in Ps. 127 yesterday

and it is so true, "Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain

that build it: except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh but

in vain". We must have Him in everything we do, if we are to be successful.

Whether it is a family, a church, a business, or organization, etc., we must

have Him! Without Him, we are nothing, and cannot do anything worth

doing! You mentioned co-dependency in another post! I think we are

connected and dependent upon HIM, wouldn't you say?:bliss :bliss

Lord, I depend on You;
Lord. I depend on You,
Like a child reaching out
to his father and mother.
Lord, I depend on You!

Expound on that a bit, Sis. Rhoni. Co-dependency!

I am going to the doctor with my little sister for a checkup so

won't be on for a while!

Blessings,

Falla39

[Rhoni]

Sis. Rhoni,

Very true!! I recall Sis. Felicity's quoting a verse in Ps. 127 yesterday

and it is so true, "Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain

that build it: except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh but

in vain". We must have Him in everything we do, if we are to be successful.

Whether it is a family, a church, a business, or organization, etc., we must

have Him! Without Him, we are nothing, and cannot do anything worth

doing! You mentioned co-dependency in another post! I think we are

connected and dependent upon HIM, wouldn't you say?:bliss :bliss

Lord, I depend on You;
Lord. I depend on You,
Like a child reaching out
to his father and mother.
Lord, I depend on You!

Expound on that a bit, Sis. Rhoni. Co-dependency!

I am going to the doctor with my little sister for a checkup so

won't be on for a while!

Blessings,

Falla39

I will take this to the Dear Rhoni thread as a question....:ty

Blessings, Rhoni

P.S. Co-dependency is different than dependency...and YES...we are all dependent on God.:praying

[Rhoni]

Here are some things that may help you to understand the nature of co-dependency:

Co-Dependency Characteristics:
The primary identifying factor of co-dependency is the fact that the person/individual tends to take care of everyone around them in regards to; feelings, actions, words, everything to the neglect of themselves. The person who is co-dependent is a reactive individual who neglects to take action for him/her self.

The co-dependent person is characterized by having a dysfunctional relationship with others as well as themselves. They tend to live through others instead of for him or herself. Many times they are controlling and will blame others instead of taking responsibility for themselves and live in a state of 'Victimization' while trying to fix others. They generally will exhibit intense anxiety when it comes to intimacy issues.

*always having to take care of others at the expense of your own self
*Unable to trust your own feelings
*depression
*isolation
*Workaholism
*perfectionism
*no clear boundaries
*low self-esteem - seeks the approval in others

[Rhoni]

People with a co-dependent personality are often considered rescuers and are constantly trying to save people from the consequences of their behaviors. This enables the person they are trying to rescue to stay dependent on them for their well-being. They will go to great lengths to do this; giving money, lying for them, and defending them when it would be better to stay out of the middle of this person's problems. The actions/behaviors of the co-dependent person are many times well founded but executed in the wrong way. The co-dependent person needs to learn that the only one who's behaviors they can control are their own. Once the co-dependent person realizes this then they will be able to help the dysfunctional people in their lives start to take responsibility for their own actions.

[Rhoni]

Recovery for a Co-Dependent Person:

The prime objective to recovery in healing is to learn to take care of one's self and not worry about how others are going to get along. The thing that has to happen is that the co-dependent person needs to get in touch with their own feelings and actions and learn to DETACH from involvement in other people's affairs.

Detachment means using energy for yourself insted of using it on others and neglecting yourself. Understanding your own boundaries and making others do the same in regards to you is very important to the healing process of the co-dependent.

Giving your love, energy, emotions and person to a dysfunctional person is draining and can have a long-lasting effect on your life long after the individual is gone. Part of the healing process is to let go of the pain and then learn how to make your life happy again.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Rhoni]

Sister Falla,

Where it would be questioned about the line between caring for others and being narcississtic would be when the caring for others is not about the others but the need for you to take care of someone else's business to the neglect of taking care of your own. A good evidence of this is found in the Bible when using the analogy of: one trying to judge another without first taking the beam out of his own eye.

Another way to check yourself is when the person you are trying to rescue or defend has little reason to be connected to you. I think many use the term 'friend' or 'relative' loosely. I have clients who tell me...this or that one is an aunt, uncle, brother, or sister only to find out...they are not related at all.

Using myself as an example: my co-dependent behavior is a product of being in an alcoholic family. I was the oldest of five children, I parented and was my Mom's best friend even though she was the parent. My father was an alcoholic and I was the family hero...always rescuing and trying to divert the attention from the dysfunction in our home. Trying to take care of everyone else's feelings, excuse their behavior and blame it on circumstance, and trying really hard not to focus on my own issues.

Like most good co-dependents...I refused to believe I had a problem. I had to join a group meeting for a counsleing project and chose ALANON. I was in my 40's so I didn't think I needed it, had gotten past all my issues...and in the first session within the first 5 minutes...I was exposed!

I still fight battles with co-dependency, but through the past few years have gotten better at the boundary thing and not accepting other people's problems as my own and worry over them or with them. Even writing all this down..I have seen how I contribute to the issues in regards to my son's wedding. Co-dependency has a way of creeping back into your life - just when you thought you had it whipped!

Hope this helps.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Falla39]

Sister Falla,

Where it would be questioned about the line between caring for others and being narcississtic would be when the caring for others is not about the others but the need for you to take care of someone else's business to the neglect of taking care of your own. A good evidence of this is found in the Bible when using the analogy of: one trying to judge another without first taking the beam out of his own eye.

Another way to check yourself is when the person you are trying to rescue or defend has little reason to be connected to you. I think many use the term 'friend' or 'relative' loosely. I have clients who tell me...this or that one is an aunt, uncle, brother, or sister only to find out...they are not related at all.

Using myself as an example: my co-dependent behavior is a product of being in an alcoholic family. I was the oldest of five children, I parented and was my Mom's best friend even though she was the parent. My father was an alcoholic and I was the family hero...always rescuing and trying to divert the attention from the dysfunction in our home. Trying to take care of everyone else's feelings, excuse their behavior and blame it on circumstance, and trying really hard not to focus on my own issues.

Like most good co-dependents...I refused to believe I had a problem. I had to join a group meeting for a counsleing project and chose ALANON. I was in my 40's so I didn't think I needed it, had gotten past all my issues...and in the first session within the first 5 minutes...I was exposed!

I still fight battles with co-dependency, but through the past few years have gotten better at the boundary thing and not accepting other people's problems as my own and worry over them or with them. Even writing all this down..I have seen how I contribute to the issues in regards to my son's wedding. Co-dependency has a way of creeping back into your life - just when you thought you had it whipped!

Hope this helps.

Blessings, Rhoni

Sis. Rhoni,

Thank you so much for this valuable information and also using

some of your own experiences to dialogue. I believe we can help

each other by exchanging information whether it be life's experiences

or by educational learning.

My late dad had a little motto hanging in his personal home office

which read "There are a lot of things we could all learn, if we were

not already convinced we knew it all". He felt he could learn as long

as he BELIEVED he COULD learn more. He would say about the time he

thought he had learned quite a bit about God, something would happen

and he would realize how little he knew about God!!! But one thing he

did know was that God is Great and Greatly to be Praised!! His eldest

daughter feels the same way!! I first learned it from my father, who

has now departed, so I just go directly to his FATHER and my FATHER.

NOTHING BETWEEN!!!:bliss :bliss :bliss :bliss :bliss

Again, thank you for the info I enquired about from you!! Love you,

Sister!:highfive

Blessings,

Falla39

[Rhoni]

Sis. Rhoni,

Thank you so much for this valuable information and also using

some of your own experiences to dialogue. I believe we can help

each other by exchanging information whether it be life's experiences

or by educational learning.

My late dad had a little motto hanging in his personal home office

which read "There are a lot of things we could all learn, if we were

not already convinced we knew it all". He felt he could learn as long

as he BELIEVED he COULD learn more. He would say about the time he

thought he had learned quite a bit about God, something would happen

and he would realize how little he knew about God!!! But one thing he

did know was that God is Great and Greatly to be Praised!! His eldest

daughter feels the same way!! I first learned it from my father, who

has now departed, so I just go directly to his FATHER and my FATHER.

NOTHING BETWEEN!!!:bliss :bliss :bliss :bliss :bliss

Again, thank you for the info I enquired about from you!! Love you,

Sister!:highfive

Blessings,

Falla39

Sis. Falla,

You are so right. We do learn from each other. I know the older I become and the more knowledge I acquire the more I know I don't know!

:ty I hope the information helps you in ministering to others. Hope to see you again real soon...I know a place close to firewheel where we can eat;)!

Blessings, Rhoni

[Falla39]

Sis. Falla,

You are so right. We do learn from each other. I know the older I become and the more knowledge I acquire the more I know I don't know!

:ty I hope the information helps you in ministering to others. Hope to see you again real soon...I know a place close to firewheel where we can eat;)!

Blessings, Rhoni

Sis. Rhoni,

I noticed where you had taken our dialogue to "Dear Rhoni" and

was trying to figure out if I needed to take my last post there!

Printing out the information you gave me so I can study and

compare it with what I already know from my life's 67 yrs, teaching

and experiences.

Yes, I would love to get together again soon!

Blessings,

Falla39

[Rhoni]

Sis. Rhoni,

I noticed where you had taken our dialogue to "Dear Rhoni" and

was trying to figure out if I needed to take my last post there!

Printing out the information you gave me so I can study and

compare it with what I already know from my life's 67 yrs, teaching

and experiences.

Yes, I would love to get together again soon!

Blessings,

Falla39

Sis. Falla,

I didn't know where you wanted to reference so I posted it both places. Many people do not go into the blog section and co-dependency affects so many I thought it would be good to make it available to all.

I'll call you this weekend.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Warmbee]

When you talk about 'growing' a church are you talking numbers or actual souls? I know there are churches that are started and people from another church move to them and then there are the churches that start with a pastor and his wife going out and winning souls..... I believe to grow a church you need a burden for winning souls, teaching truth, nuturing those new souls, and a big part is to (I believe this was mentioned, I didn't read the whole thread) raise those souls up that they would be leaders. I really believe that it's more about spiritual strength and consistantanly winning new souls than in having 100's of people. My pastor always says if he wanted to pastor a huge church all he'd have to do is drop the standards and water down the preaching, but he's more concerned with spiritual strength.

I hope that made sense:hmmm

[Pragmatist]

If a lay minister is spiritual enough for you to use him to go to prisons and nursing homes, why isn't he spiritual enough to handle a Weds. night Bible Class while pastor is out of town??

Our church dismisses when Pastor and/ or Assistant (his son) is out of town. We have no less than 5-6 'lay' ministers in our congregation...I don't get it...

I am astounded that church would be canceled because the pastor is out of town. I've never seen that in all the churches I've attended in many different states. Even if there is no one qualified or willing to lead the service, the church at least got together and had a prayer meeting.

[Bishop1]

A CHURCH HAS TO BE

PLANTED

BEFORE IT CAN

GROW -


Bishop1
:beatdeadhorse

[RevDWW]

A CHURCH HAS TO BE

PLANTED

BEFORE IT CAN

GROW -


Bishop1
:beatdeadhorse

Lord, touch Bishop1's hearing so he doesn't have to holler all the time......:heeheehee :killinme

[Bishop1]

Lord, touch Bishop1's hearing so he doesn't have to holler all the time......:heeheehee :killinme


HUH ?

Did Sumbody Say Somethin ?


Bishop1
:beatdeadhorse

[Ronzo]

HUH ?

Did Sumbody Say Somethin ?


Bishop1
:beatdeadhorse

Do you really need to use 50 point font all the time, bro?

[Bishop1]

Do you really need to use 50 point font all the time, bro?



NOPE

SUMTIMES I CAN USE " 40"

But Only On My Good Days !


{BTW -- Yos Post Like A NOOYARK TAXEN !}
Bishop1
:beatdeadhorse

[Fireside]

If a lay minister is spiritual enough for you to use him to go to prisons and nursing homes, why isn't he spiritual enough to handle a Weds. night Bible Class while pastor is out of town??

Our church dismisses when Pastor and/ or Assistant (his son) is out of town. We have no less than 5-6 'lay' ministers in our congregation...I don't get it...


I NEVER cancel services because I am gone.

It honestly never ocurred to me to do do, and to tell the truth, I never even heard of any pastor doing that until I read this thread. At least not if there was anybody at all to take care of it.

Even if there were no preachers there, I can't see canceling a service. Have some good man in the church give a Bible lesson, or at least have a prayer meeting...but cancel? Not in this life time. I think church is too important to be cancelling for frivolous reasons.

I am fortunate to have some young preachers I can trust. I have spent a lot of time with tem, trying to pour everything I can into them. When i have to be gone, I leave them to take care of things without a second thought. I can't imagine doing otherwise.

[Malvaro]

I NEVER cancel services because I am gone.

It honestly never ocurred to me to do do, and to tell the truth, I never even heard of any pastor doing that until I read this thread. At least not if there was anybody at all to take care of it.

Even if there were no preachers there, I can't see canceling a service. Have some good man in the church give a Bible lesson, or at least have a prayer meeting...but cancel? Not in this life time. I think church is too important to be cancelling for frivolous reasons.

I am fortunate to have some young preachers I can trust. I have spent a lot of time with tem, trying to pour everything I can into them. When i have to be gone, I leave them to take care of things without a second thought. I can't imagine doing otherwise.

I agree.... and both my old church in WI and church here have never just cancelled a service.... i personally think that would be an insult to the many "good" people that are in our churches.... imho, I also think that very quickly breeds the deadly "God can only use the pastor(s)" church attitude....