May I smoke here??!

[2020Vision]

Lol, you guys kill me.

No one is saying smoking is ok, we're just asking why the same amount of emphasis is not placed on other things that are just as dangerous to one's health?????????????????????????

Argh, I give up!

Back to work!

Phelps just a few posts ago YOU said smoking IS okay (not a sin). Don't go ballistic. It's what you said. Remember, you were being honest...

[Amos]

Lol, you guys kill me.

No one is saying smoking is ok, we're just asking why the same amount of emphasis is not placed on other things that are just as dangerous to one's health?????????????????????????

Argh, I give up!

Back to work!

I bumped several posts where members said it wasn't a sin.

[Michael Phelps]

Phelps just a few posts ago YOU said smoking IS okay (not a sin). Don't go ballistic. It's what you said. Remember, you were being honest...

Ha, sometimes I think you're St. Mark in disguise.

Where did I say smoking was ok?

[Michael Phelps]

I bumped several posts where members said it wasn't a sin.

I only saw the one post you bumped.

[Ferd]

Oh brother, not you too.

I'm tired of the old "if anyone questions a teaching, they must not believe in preaching against ANY sin" refrain.

I doubt you'll find one person on this forum who condones smoking, but some of the same people who put smokers in hell laugh about Apostolics over eating.

Ferd, you have to acknowledge that we've made some issues our "hot buttons" throughout the years, but some other equally dangerous issues we've ignored, and even laughed about.


Yea. me too. But only in that i read here the justification of smoking ("May I smoke here") because someone else sins in some other way.

MP, it isnt that this place is becoming anti-apostolic. Its that some of this stuff is just down right un-christian.


... unless you are a methodist and then you can be a preacher and gay at the same time...


and least we forget, the Methodists were the orriginal Protestant Holiness people....

I wonder how long until we become like them....considering we came from them?

[2020Vision]

Ha, sometimes I think you're St. Mark in disguise.

Where did I say smoking was ok?

Okay, Phelps. Let's get you on the record again. Is it a sin to smoke? If so, does sin keep you from heaven?

[2020Vision]

Ha, sometimes I think you're St. Mark in disguise.

Where did I say smoking was ok?

LOL St Mark in disguise! Careful now. I know how much you hate to be called Fred (thanks to someone who posted the explanation!!) hahaha

If this whole post is "we really should preach more against gluttony" I don't think it would have gone this far. All would say "amen".

[Michael Phelps]

Okay, Phelps. Let's get you on the record again. Is it a sin to smoke? If so, does sin keep you from heaven?

Well, apparently, I already answered that!:santathumb

I'll just wait for you to find my answer and repost it.

[Michael Phelps]

LOL St Mark in disguise! Careful now. I know how much you hate to be called Fred (thanks to someone who posted the explanation!!) hahaha

If this whole post is "we really should preach more against gluttony" I don't think it would have gone this far. All would say "amen".

That's been my premise all along, but you guys kept telling me I was saying smoking was ok.

Again, my argument is for consistency!

[Amos]

Yea. me too. But only in that i read here the justification of smoking ("May I smoke here") because someone else sins in some other way.

MP, it isnt that this place is becoming anti-apostolic. Its that some of this stuff is just down right un-christian.


... unless you are a methodist and then you can be a preacher and gay at the same time...


and least we forget, the Methodists were the orriginal Protestant Holiness people....

I wonder how long until we become like them....considering we came from them?

Ferdinand,

Watching the change in some of these folks over the last four years has been absolutely incredible.

I have seen them go a long way down that proverbial slippery slope.

Where will they stop, is the only question.

[2020Vision]

That's been my premise all along, but you guys kept telling me I was saying smoking was ok.

Again, my argument is for consistency!

You like straight answers, yours wasn't too straight. Is it a sin or not?

[Michael Phelps]

You like straight answers, yours wasn't too straight. Is it a sin or not?

You tell me. You seem to know what I believe.

Go back and find my post.:gotcha

[2020Vision]

Cigarette smoking, justification by faith, anti-standards, etc... some posters want the Apostolic Church to look like the church they left their Apostolic church for.

[StMark]

Ha, sometimes I think you're St. Mark in disguise.Where did I say smoking was ok?


Some folks can hurl insults with unabandon freedom but let others merely tease someone and it's the end of the world.

[2020Vision]

You tell me. You seem to know what I believe.

Go back and find my post.:gotcha

I found your post and it was ambiguous. Is it hard to just answer YES or NO?

[aak1972]

just because something is preached as a sin....doesn't make it one. I think I understand the original post....and believe the problem isn't with smoking....its with the idea that everything MUST be defined as "sin" or "not-a-sin". Why? Why can't somethings just be "bad for you"....why do they need the label of "sin" attached to them? Have we(believers) become so void of thought & reason that we need someone to preach to us that ingesting smoke into our bodies will hurt us? Read the package!!

Very good point! Paul says many time that its better to ____ than to ____ i.e. Its better to marry than burn. Is either a sin?

[2020Vision]

AAk, the original poster. We KNOW for a fact he doesn't believe smoking is a sin. Or... does he? Please. Since we are all accused of making huge assumptions, how about it? Tell us what you believe? Phelps hasn't answered back.

[edjen01]

I no not believe smoking is a "sin".....but i also don't believe something has to be a "sin" or "not-a-sin".

[Michael Phelps]

I found your post and it was ambiguous. Is it hard to just answer YES or NO?

Well, I can. However, I took exception with your statement that I said smoking was OK, since I NEVER said that.

I appreciate you admitting that you read something in to my post that wasn't there.

I am getting ready to get on a conference call, but when I'm finished, I'll detail my position unequivocally - deal?

[Praxeas]

Legalism

strict adherence, or the principle of strict adherence, to law or prescription, esp. to the letter rather than the spirit.

BTW, that something is not specifically mentioned in the bible does not mean there isn't a principle IN the bible covering it. I don't know that those individuals are looking for loopholes, but they certainly are ignorant to think it has to be explicitly spelled out, verbatim they way they claim it has to be. That's not legalism...it's foolishness, but not legalism.

On the other hand, we have to be careful with "principles" and such as they can become subjective tools too.

There are or is a principle in the bible that covers drugs and such things as tobacco.

[Rhoni]

Nicotine Dependence 305.1 Is a diagnosed mental illness. Enough said!:christmoose

AAk, the original poster. We KNOW for a fact he doesn't believe smoking is a sin. Or... does he? Please. Since we are all accused of making huge assumptions, how about it? Tell us what you believe? Phelps hasn't answered back.

I no not believe smoking is a "sin".....but i also don't believe something has to be a "sin" or "not-a-sin".

Well, I can. However, I took exception with your statement that I said smoking was OK, since I NEVER said that.

I appreciate you admitting that you read something in to my post that wasn't there.

I am getting ready to get on a conference call, but when I'm finished, I'll detail my position unequivocally - deal?

It may not be a sin but is a diagnosed mental illness:):christmoose

[edjen01]

i grew up around churches where everything had to be defined. in my experience it created weak believers. ones who had to ask if something was sin or not....instead of allowing the Holy Spirit to do its work. It made "gods" out of pastors who now had the "power" to declare anything a "sin".

[Michael Phelps]

It may not be a sin but is a diagnosed mental illness:):christmoose

3 minutes until my conference call, but before I go, let me state emphatically that I do not believe nicotine dependence is a mental illness, and whoever classified it as such is incompetent, at best.

Now, THAT'S a loophole if I ever heard one.

Smoking is a nasty, unnecessary habit, and it is definitely within anyone's power to break, if they so desire.

[Praxeas]

Cigarette smoking, justification by faith, anti-standards, etc... some posters want the Apostolic Church to look like the church they left their Apostolic church for.
Justification by faith??? What's wrong with that? That's bible, not a church one left.

BTW for the record I can't stand that term "standard" or "standard of holiness"....since the term Holiness was never used in the bible in regards to hair length, makeup, jewelry or clothing. Following those things is fine, but to make it a "standard of Holiness" to me is presumptuos and missleading. True Holiness is in the heart and a true "standard" of Holiness should be the fruit of the Spirit vs the Works of the flesh. Anyone can wear a costume and pretend to be something they are not.

[edjen01]

It may not be a sin but is a diagnosed mental illness:):christmoose

so are many of the things practiced by Apostolics.

[Rhoni]

3 minutes until my conference call, but before I go, let me state emphatically that I do not believe nicotine dependence is a mental illness, and whoever classified it as such is incompetent, at best.

Now, THAT'S a loophole if I ever heard one.

Smoking is a nasty, unnecessary habit, and it is definitely within anyone's power to break, if they so desire.

I didn't write the book...just telling you how we treat it in substance abuse counseling:christmoose Anything can be an addiction...just like mine is chocolate:santathumb

[Rhoni]

so are many of the things practiced by Apostolics.

:christmoose

[2020Vision]

i grew up around churches where everything had to be defined. in my experience it created weak believers. ones who had to ask if something was sin or not....instead of allowing the Holy Spirit to do its work. It made "gods" out of pastors who now had the "power" to declare anything a "sin".

I grew up in a church just the opposite. Strong believers, strong families, strong young people, and not too many have fallen away. We've gained more than we've lost, and continually.

[2020Vision]

so are many of the things practiced by Apostolics.

What an indictment. Care to explain or further ellaborate? Are you Apostolic yourself?

[Praxeas]

I no not believe smoking is a "sin".....but i also don't believe something has to be a "sin" or "not-a-sin".
If that is the case, what do you think of what Paul said and how does it apply?

1Co 6:12 "All things are lawful for me," but not all things are helpful. "All things are lawful for me," but I will not be enslaved by anything.

1Co 10:23 "All things are lawful," but not all things are helpful. "All things are lawful," but not all things build up.
1Co 10:24 Let no one seek his own good, but the good of his neighbor.
That kind of stuff is addicting..if you had a brother that quit, would you smoke around them or try to convince them it is fine to do? Would you do something you might become enslaved to?

[edjen01]

I grew up in a church just the opposite. Strong believers, strong families, strong young people, and not too many have fallen away. We've gained more than we've lost, and continually.

are they strong because everything was defined for them? or are they strong because they listen/obey the Holy Spirit?

[Praxeas]

Very good point! Paul says many time that its better to ____ than to ____ i.e. Its better to marry than burn. Is either a sin?
I don't see how that applies. Who would suggest marrying is a sin or "burning" is a sin?

BTW burn means to "be aflame with passion"...

[2020Vision]

3 minutes until my conference call, but before I go, let me state emphatically that I do not believe nicotine dependence is a mental illness, and whoever classified it as such is incompetent, at best.

Now, THAT'S a loophole if I ever heard one.

Smoking is a nasty, unnecessary habit, and it is definitely within anyone's power to break, if they so desire.

Sin or not? Does it please God?

To him therefore that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

I'm not interpreting your position for you. I'm taking you at the words I'm reading, which is something we all do. But if you think I'm misunderstanding you, I've asked to to clarify.

[Praxeas]

Rhoni, nothing personal but the fact that they are making nicotine addition a mental illness just reaffirms a lot of suspicions people have of that field.

Anyone that smokes will become addicted to nicotine. Some people might have mental disorders that lead them to become addicted to food or something, but most people just start smoking because it's cool and then become addicted

[2020Vision]

are they strong because everything was defined for them? or are they strong because they listen/obey the Holy Spirit?

Both. There's a lot to be said for obedience and submission. In fact, it's a common thread througout the whole Bible. We are happy Apostolics! And yes, the Holy Ghost actually does instruct us too! Imagine that! :christmoose

[aak1972]

Well guys thanks for the enetainment I needed it today!!!

[edjen01]

What an indictment. Care to explain or further ellaborate? Are you Apostolic yourself?

I am. I've been an Apostolic preacher for over 20 years.

I think most "professionals" would consider "tongues" to be a sign of mental illness....as well as some other "demonstrations" that can be seen in an Apostolic church.

[Trouvere]

gluttony is a sin as well.
We just have to admit it.
I have seen alot of gluttony in the church.
I have a friend who prays over her food and asks Jesus to remove the calories.
Itsn't that a trip?
I suppose you could pray over your cigarettes and ask Jesus to remove the poison from them but then you would be admitting that you know they are poison.
I wish you could come to work with me tonight and take care of my hospice ward patients at the prison who are dying of lung cancer and admit they did it to themselves then smoking would no longer be an issue. Love yourself and quit I did.

[2020Vision]

If that is the case, what do you think of what Paul said and how does it apply?

1Co 6:12 "All things are lawful for me," but not all things are helpful. "All things are lawful for me," but I will not be enslaved by anything.

1Co 10:23 "All things are lawful," but not all things are helpful. "All things are lawful," but not all things build up.
1Co 10:24 Let no one seek his own good, but the good of his neighbor.
That kind of stuff is addicting..if you had a brother that quit, would you smoke around them or try to convince them it is fine to do? Would you do something you might become enslaved to?

And if one doesn't believe it's a sin, this is the next place I'd go.

I'm confused on this thread though. Shall I just agree in advance that obesity is sin? Or is there another argument that some are trying to make?

[Tina]

3 minutes until my conference call, but before I go, let me state emphatically that I do not believe nicotine dependence is a mental illness, and whoever classified it as such is incompetent, at best.

Now, THAT'S a loophole if I ever heard one.

Smoking is a nasty, unnecessary habit, and it is definitely within anyone's power to break, if they so desire.

Before I type my response-- I will state that I have only read the last page of this thread.

A person smokes by choice, not because it's a mental illness. The smoking becomes an addiction to the nicotine. An addiction can be broken, but the person has to want to be free from the addiction.

I smoked for 16 years. I stopped smoking almost 10 years ago. The pediatrician looked at me and said that I was making my son sick. I threw my cigarettes in the trash, and quit on that day-- cold turkey. I knew I could only stay away from them with God's help-- so I asked my mother to pray that I'd have strength to overcome the addiction. Because of God answering my mother's prayer I am free from the addiction. My mother prayed that the smell of smoke would make me feel sick so that I would NEVER desire to pick up another cigarette. Even now, I cannot be around smoke because I feel lightheaded and sick to my stomach--and I have no desire to ever smoke another one.

Not only did God deliver me from smoking, he also restored my lungs to a healthy condition. I have no lingering health problems from all the years that I smoked.

[aak1972]

But my question is still why are the other sins never preached?

[2020Vision]

Food doesn't have poisons. The wrong food and excessive use of some foods have poison. Food is a necessary thing. Try to go without for a year. Food is also part of the Feasts in Scripture. God loves a good party too! Gluttony is not eating and having a good time. Let's be careful to interpret this.

Cigarettes put our pleasures in the way of our testimony. They have no value to you, but are filthy. Go YouTube "affects of tobacco use" and see for yourself.

[KWSS1976]

Edjen01 just started whole new topic "tongues" I am going to sit back and watch where this goes...

[Ferd]

And if one doesn't believe it's a sin, this is the next place I'd go.

I'm confused on this thread though. Shall I just agree in advance that obesity is sin? Or is there another argument that some are trying to make?

agreeing that obesity is a sin will not quench the thirst here to take a stand against those who take stands my friend.

I have a greater understanding of this thread now after taking the time to consider things.

This isn't about justifying smoking anymore than it is about proving that gluttony is also a sin.

It is about proving how morally bankrupt Holiness people are and therefore justifying those who have walked away from Holiness.

[edjen01]

Both. There's a lot to be said for obedience and submission. In fact, it's a common thread througout the whole Bible. We are happy Apostolics! And yes, the Holy Ghost actually does instruct us too! Imagine that! :christmoose

i do not doubt you....or your church. Please do not think I am talking down or bad about you or your church. God leads us all by different paths.

I do see a call for submission and obedience. But also see where there is very little tolerance for those who say "thus saith the Lord"...when the Lord didn't sayeth.

[edjen01]

Edjen01 just started whole new topic "tongues" I am going to sit back and watch where this goes...

sorry....i'm new here.

[2020Vision]

But my question is still why are the other sins never preached?

Who says they aren't preached? Why are you so obsessed with this? Maybe pastors should mail you cards about the "other sins" they preach about to keep you in the loop. This just seems to be another lame attempt to attack the church and prove some great error and inconsistency. It's not working.

If AAK and Phelps both agree cigarettes are not pleasing to God, then what is left to talk about? Is there a poster here that doesn't believe gluttony is wrong?

[Praxeas]

And if one doesn't believe it's a sin, this is the next place I'd go.

I'm confused on this thread though. Shall I just agree in advance that obesity is sin? Or is there another argument that some are trying to make?
Maybe food addiction is a sin....or maybe it is not. That is the danger we risk though. Pretty soon a lot of things are sin. Neckties are sin.

[Trouvere]

Many preach against gluttony and smoking. I do. I have done both and both are wrong. Anything that takes us away from being what we need for Jesus is wrong. I have a hard time listening to anyone preach who is self indulgent in any way. Jesus is not self indulgent.

[2020Vision]

i do not doubt you....or your church. Please do not think I am talking down or bad about you or your church. God leads us all by different paths.

I do see a call for submission and obedience. But also see where there is very little tolerance for those who say "thus saith the Lord"...when the Lord didn't sayeth.

Agree, a true prophet only speaks for God when He has spoken.

It doesn't take "thus saith the Lord" for me to obey and follow my Pastor though. If it's in harmony with scripture, has good intention for the interest of the flock, and come from a man of love, then I'm with him. If I ever felt he was off, I would really take it from the Lord. If a man is off in one area, chances are that would repeat, and I could address that then. All that to say, God uses the Pastor to lead and make decisions in 21st Century America.

[2020Vision]

Many preach against gluttony and smoking. I do.

My Pastor does both. I talked about it previously. Has to do with appetites. He preaches on the principles of it as well.

More importantly, my Pastor preaches on the Holiness of God and His call for us to be Holy, and not much else needs to be said. We examine ourselves, and cigarettes have a hard time matching God's definition of holiness - as does gluttony.

Some were confusing obesity with gluttony. Others are saying if we can eat a candy bar, and it's no good for us, why can't we smoke a joint? Silly argumentation.

[aak1972]

Who says they aren't preached? Why are you so obsessed with this? Maybe pastors should mail you cards about the "other sins" they preach about to keep you in the loop. This just seems to be another lame attempt to attack the church and prove some great error and inconsistency. It's not working.

If AAK and Phelps both agree cigarettes are not pleasing to God, then what is left to talk about? Is there a poster here that doesn't believe gluttony is wrong?

LOL I am not obsessed!! I merely started a thread b/c I knew you guys couldnt resist bashing each other and I needed some enertainment.

[KWSS1976]

O edjen01 it is ok I do not care I was just saying cause someone will bring it up... O you said your new.... Welcome.....

[edjen01]

Agree, a true prophet only speaks for God when He has spoken.

It doesn't take "thus saith the Lord" for me to obey and follow my Pastor though. If it's in harmony with scripture, has good intention for the interest of the flock, and come from a man of love, then I'm with him. If I ever felt he was off, I would really take it from the Lord. If a man is off in one area, chances are that would repeat, and I could address that then. All that to say, God uses the Pastor to lead and make decisions in 21st Century America.

I respect your faith and comittment.

For me....I like God to cut out the middle-man. And it apprears that God has given you and I shephers after our own hearts.

[Kay B]

Well - if they drank overate, etc before they were then I hope they are doing something about it now. There are things you can do to help you live a better life with COPD - plenty of Vitamin C helps; Omega 3 supplements, magnesium; flaxsee and walnuts; kidney beans, soybeans; eat salmon, haibut or tuna at least 3 times a week. Studies have been done that proves this is just a few of the things you can do if you suffer from COPD to help you live a better life.

The best thing I believe is to also quit smoking. My mother died from this and she never would take the advice of her doctor.She would not give up the cigarettes.

[edjen01]

O edjen01 it is ok I do not care I was just saying cause someone will bring it up... O you said your new.... Welcome.....

thanks.

[Ferd]

My Pastor does both. I talked about it previously. Has to do with appetites. He preaches on the principles of it as well.

More importantly, my Pastor preaches on the Holiness of God and His call for us to be Holy, and not much else needs to be said. We examine ourselves, and cigarettes have a hard time matching God's definition of holiness - as does gluttony.

Some were confusing obesity with gluttony. Others are saying if we can eat a candy bar, and it's no good for us, why can't we smoke a joint? Silly argumentation.


actually there has already been an exchange in this tread that seems to suggest that smoking a joint not only isnt bad but is often done by a poster here.

[2020Vision]

LOL I am not obsessed!! I merely started a thread b/c I knew you guys couldnt resist bashing each other and I needed some enertainment.

Right....

And if true... provoking your brethern to wrath, eh?

So what is your position on this matter?

[2020Vision]

I respect your faith and comittment.

For me....I like God to cut out the middle-man. And it apprears that God has given you and I shephers after our own hearts.

Well, hearing from God is one thing. Being submitted to a pastor is something altogether different. It's the Apostolic model, and is a pattern after scripture. This is Apostolic Friends Forum. But yes, God has given me not only a shepherd after MY heart, but after God's heart.

[2020Vision]

actually there has already been an exchange in this tread that seems to suggest that smoking a joint not only isnt bad but is often done by a poster here.

Ferd, that's what I thought. But others are accusing of over-reacting and jumping to conclusions.

[aak1972]

Right....

And if true... provoking your brethern to wrath, eh?

So what is your position on this matter?

I believe smoking is a sin b/c of the health hazards but mainly b/c of the addiction. I think any addiction is a sin no matter how trivial. Including AFF!

[edjen01]

Well, hearing from God is one thing. Being submitted to a pastor is something altogether different. It's the Apostolic model, and is a pattern after scripture. This is Apostolic Friends Forum. But yes, God has given me not only a shepherd after MY heart, but after God's heart.

then you are truely blessed.

as for the Apostolic model....that is whole different topic. :)

[Praxeas]

If that is the case, what do you think of what Paul said and how does it apply?

1Co 6:12 "All things are lawful for me," but not all things are helpful. "All things are lawful for me," but I will not be enslaved by anything.

1Co 10:23 "All things are lawful," but not all things are helpful. "All things are lawful," but not all things build up.
1Co 10:24 Let no one seek his own good, but the good of his neighbor.
That kind of stuff is addicting..if you had a brother that quit, would you smoke around them or try to convince them it is fine to do? Would you do something you might become enslaved to?
BUMP

[Ferd]

Ferd, that's what I thought. But others are accusing of over-reacting and jumping to conclusions.

LOL! well then I am over reacting.


like I said, this isnt about smoking, eating too much or drinking too many cokes.

it is about pointing out the hypocracy of Holiness people and proving Holiness people are morally bankrupt in an effort to justify walking away from the Holiness message.

[aak1972]

LOL! well then I am over reacting.


like I said, this isnt about smoking, eating too much or drinking too many cokes.

it is about pointing out the hypocracy of Holiness people and proving Holiness people are morally bankrupt in an effort to justify walking away from the Holiness message.

You guys are more fun than Judge Judy!!

[rgcraig]

actually there has already been an exchange in this tread that seems to suggest that smoking a joint not only isnt bad but is often done by a poster here.

I hope you took the time to read a couple posts that stated HE DOES NOT SMOKE. What he posted was TIC. Was it a smart thing to post, no, but it did clarify that he doesn't.

[aak1972]

I hope you took the time to read a couple posts that stated HE DOES NOT SMOKE. What he posted was TIC. Was it a smart thing to post, no, but it did clarify that he doesn't.

Did I miss something!!

[Ferd]

You guys are more fun than Judge Judy!!

right. we are the knuckleheads.

[rgcraig]

I believe smoking is a sin b/c of the health hazards but mainly b/c of the addiction. I think any addiction is a sin no matter how trivial. Including AFF!

For Ferd in case you missed his other posts.

[aak1972]

right. we are the knuckleheads.

You guys are to easily manipulated!

[Pressing-On]

You guys are more fun than Judge Judy!!

:toofunny :toofunny

[Ferd]

You guys are to easily manipulated!

if it makes you feel better to say that, lay on.... im not offended by the statement.


and it does nothing to the reality that this thread isnt about smoking or gluttany.

its about proving hypocracy in those who are doing their best to live holy lives.

[Ferd]

For Ferd in case you missed his other posts.

Renda I saw that. It doesnt undo what was done in this thread in the least. and our friend in question wasnt the only one posting.

but as he pointed out, this was simply about drawing some of us off sides.

which proves the real point. This thread isnt about what this thread is about.

[rgcraig]

Renda I saw that. It doesnt undo what was done in this thread in the least. and our friend in question wasnt the only one posting.

but as he pointed out, this was simply about drawing some of us off sides.

which proves the real point. This thread isnt about what this thread is about.

The poster that has stated several time now that he doesn't not smoke and he believe smoking is a sin is the one that posted what concerned you. I promise. I just checked.

[aak1972]

Renda I saw that. It doesnt undo what was done in this thread in the least. and our friend in question wasnt the only one posting.

but as he pointed out, this was simply about drawing some of us off sides.

which proves the real point. This thread isnt about what this thread is about.

Well well we have a mind reader on board!! I started this thread simply b/c I wanted to see the arguements that would go on. If I wanted to prove hypocrisy it would be much easier!!!

[2020Vision]

LOL! well then I am over reacting.


like I said, this isnt about smoking, eating too much or drinking too many cokes.

it is about pointing out the hypocracy of Holiness people and proving Holiness people are morally bankrupt in an effort to justify walking away from the Holiness message.

BINGO!!! No rocket scientists to see that! LOL Glad YOU said it.

[Ferd]

Well well we have a mind reader on board!! I started this thread simply b/c i wanted to see the arguements that would go on. If I wanted to prove hypocrisy it would be much easier!!!

oh ok. so you go with if smoking is a sin why dont they preach against B, C, and D...


but that isnt what you were doing? right aak. you werent doing that! no way! nothing to see here just 20 odd pages of slamming anyone who doesnt preach against eating pork but does preach that smoking is a sin but we arent attempting to point out hypocracy!

No way! LOL! good for you aak.

[2020Vision]

You guys are more fun than Judge Judy!!

Guess we should not take the time to answer on your threads anymore, since they are for entertainment purposes only. Glad we could entertain. I'm starting to discern your age.

[aak1972]

The poster that has stated several time now that he doesn't not smoke and he believe smoking is a sin is the one that posted what concerned you. I promise. I just checked.

Thanks dear but you dont have to defend me. I have to be here in the office today my staff is all gone and the carpenters are here. I would much rather be hunting. Once again I just wanted to start an arguement. I was successful!!

[Ferd]

BINGO!!! No rocket scientists to see that! LOL Glad YOU said it.

Just follow along for a while. you will find that to be a reoccuring theme. It one of our favorite past times.

[aak1972]

Guess we should not take the time to answer on your threads anymore, since they are for entertainment purposes only. Glad we could entertain. I'm starting to discern your age.

And since you have that great gift what is my age?? It would be easier to discern my boredom!!

[2020Vision]

The poster that has stated several time now that he doesn't not smoke and he believe smoking is a sin is the one that posted what concerned you. I promise. I just checked.

To the rescue!

[aak1972]

oh ok. so you go with if smoking is a sin why dont they preach against B, C, and D...


but that isnt what you were doing? right aak. you werent doing that! no way! nothing to see here just 20 odd pages of slamming anyone who doesnt preach against eating pork but does preach that smoking is a sin but we arent attempting to point out hypocracy!

No way! LOL! good for you aak.

You dont read me slamming anyone!! Thats the problem with people like you, you cannot answer a question without gettin defensive!

[Cindy]

Justification by faith??? What's wrong with that? That's bible, not a church one left.

BTW for the record I can't stand that term "standard" or "standard of holiness"....since the term Holiness was never used in the bible in regards to hair length, makeup, jewelry or clothing. Following those things is fine, but to make it a "standard of Holiness" to me is presumptuos and missleading. True Holiness is in the heart and a true "standard" of Holiness should be the fruit of the Spirit vs the Works of the flesh. Anyone can wear a costume and pretend to be something they are not.

Preach!!!!

[2020Vision]

Thanks dear but you dont have to defend me. I have to be here in the office today my staff is all gone and the carpenters are here. I would much rather be hunting. Once again I just wanted to start an arguement. I was successful!!

One honest poster. Doesn't seem that would be hard to do on AFF. You are congratulating yourself? Pathetic.

[aak1972]

One honest poster. Doesn't seem that would be hard to do on AFF. You are congratulating yourself? Pathetic.

What is pathetic is the way you let yourself fall under the spell of this thread!

[2020Vision]

You dont read me slamming anyone!! Thats the problem with people like you, you cannot answer a question without gettin defensive!

You've already made clear you are on the OFFENSIVE, so I guess defense is the natural position. You slam plenty. If I take the time to copy/paste all your own responses though, you'd just giggle at how smart you are that you got us to look it up. It is what is. You are what you are.

Furthermore, it would come as no surprise if you believed in cigarette smoking. That's what's funny. I expect that position from you.

[2020Vision]

What is pathetic is the way you let yourself fall under the spell of this thread!

Fall under the spell?

By answering questions and having a discussion with other posters. You're proving yourself childish and ignorant right now.

[Pressing-On]

Regardless of the arguments - I thought a lot of good question and answering has been done on the subject. :santathumb

[aak1972]

You've already made clear you are on the OFFENSIVE, so I guess defense is the natural position. You slam plenty. If I take the time to copy/paste all your own responses though, you'd just giggle at how smart you are that you got us to look it up. It is what is. You are what you are.

Furthermore, it would come as no surprise if you believed in cigarette smoking. That's what's funny. I expect that position from you.

Find one slamming post made by me on this thread!

[aak1972]

Fall under the spell?

By answering questions and having a discussion with other posters. You're proving yourself childish and ignorant right now.

LOL But you cant stop responding so I am still controlling you!! Dont you get it?? Oh by the way great discerner whats my age??!!

[2020Vision]

Find one slamming post made by me on this thread!

Look it up yourself. Boy Who Cries Wolf. You've just lost a LOT of credibility. In my book, you had little to begin with.

AAK are you Apostolic?

[Ferd]

But my question is still why are the other sins never preached?

You dont read me slamming anyone!! Thats the problem with people like you, you cannot answer a question without gettin defensive!

No you dont slam anyone... you just make statments like the above and act like its just a simple and reasonable question!


what ever.

and defensive? get real. your question was what we like around here. you tossed a granade into the enemy camp and now your complaining when the guns come out and the fire is returned?

NOW you want to play the injured party?

spare me the goofiness. I prefer to just have the discussion.... or verbal jousting....or what ever you call it.

[rgcraig]

To the rescue!

No - just stating the facts. Ferd was confused on who said what concerned him. Not defending anyone. I just wanted to make sure Ferd had it all straight.

[2020Vision]

LOL But you cant stop respondinf so I am still controlling you!! Dont you get it?? Oh by the way great discerner whats my age??!!

I'm under such a great spell.. can't help it. Man, your powers are strong.
Fact is, I'm grinning ear to ear. BTW... age or not, I got your maturity level pegged down.

[Ferd]

Look it up yourself. Boy Who Cries Wolf. You've just lost a LOT of credibility. In my book, you had little to begin with.

AAK are you Apostolic?

Of course he is! dont you remember? he SAID he thinks smoking is a sin! LOL!

[aak1972]

Look it up yourself. Boy Who Cries Wolf. You've just lost a LOT of credibility. In my book, you had little to begin with.

AAK are you Apostolic?

Yep But what is my age dear friend whom I dont know or care to. And please refrain from the name calling.

[2020Vision]

Of course he is! dont you remember? he SAID he thinks smoking is a sin! LOL!

So do Baptists and Methodists. Judging by his position on many other issues on this board, I'm not sure (truthfully) if he even attends an Apostolic church - I mean, Sunday School class.

Anyhow... I'm done with him. Don't know if he ever deserves a response again. Not because he GOT ME under some great SPELL, but because he's proven himself devoid of good sense, with little to offer and lend to a discussion except question marks.

[aak1972]

No you dont slam anyone... you just make statments like the above and act like its just a simple and reasonable question!


what ever.

and defensive? get real. your question was what we like around here. you tossed a granade into the enemy camp and now your complaining when the guns come out and the fire is returned?

NOW you want to play the injured party?

spare me the goofiness. I prefer to just have the discussion.... or verbal jousting....or what ever you call it.

Injured party LOL LOL !!!! I simply asked a question at the start of this thread. I dont smoke never have !!

[rgcraig]

What is really surprising me is this has been discussed numerous times on AFF - not sure why some are so up in arms today.

I think it's more about people than the subject.

[aak1972]

I'm under such a great spell.. can't help it. Man, your powers are strong.
Fact is, I'm grinning ear to ear. BTW... age or not, I got your maturity level pegged down.

LOL If your grinning ear to ear buddy then like it or not we have the same personality!

[Ferd]

So do Baptists and Methodists. Judging by his position on many other issues on this board, I'm not sure (truthfully) if he even attends an Apostolic church - I mean, Sunday School class.

Anyhow... I'm done with him. Don't know if he ever deserves a response again. Not because he GOT ME under some great SPELL, but because he's proven himself devoid of good sense, with little to offer and lend to a discussion except question marks.

you must have missed my post on that subject. I think the baptist still call it a sin but who really knows?

as for the methodist you know, they were the orriginal Holiness Protestants.... and now look at them. You can be gay and a preacher of righteousness...

It is worthy to point out we came (by and large) from the methodist holiness movement. Its pretty clear to me where some parts of us are headed.

[Ferd]

What is really surprising me is this has been discussed numerous times on AFF - not sure why some are so up in arms today.

I think it's more about people than the subject.

didnt I already say that?

LOL! who doesnt like a good fight anyway?

[aak1972]

you must have missed my post on that subject. I think the baptist still call it a sin but who really knows?

as for the methodist you know, they were the orriginal Holiness Protestants.... and now look at them. You can be gay and a preacher of righteousness...

It is worthy to point out we came (by and large) from the methodist holiness movement. Its pretty clear to me where some parts of us are headed.

I have a good friend who is a deacon at a southern Baptist church here and he said it is a sin!

[2020Vision]

you must have missed my post on that subject. I think the baptist still call it a sin but who really knows?

as for the methodist you know, they were the orriginal Holiness Protestants.... and now look at them. You can be gay and a preacher of righteousness...

It is worthy to point out we came (by and large) from the methodist holiness movement. Its pretty clear to me where some parts of us are headed.

Ferd, I think we agree more than you realize. Analyze how the Methodist church got there. Analyze how even the AOG got where they are. Same arguments, in different contexts. Same labels. Same techniques. Nothing new here. Glad someone realizes that. Everyone else feels they are so wise and smart, and have been "enlightened". It's a joke.

[rgcraig]

didnt I already say that?

LOL! who doesnt like a good fight anyway?

Not really. I think it's WHO is saying things that is the problem not what they are saying.

[2020Vision]

Not really. I think it's WHO is saying things that is the problem not what they are saying.

Say what you really mean. WHO?

[Ferd]

Not really. I think it's WHO is saying things that is the problem not what they are saying.

honestly, I dont think ive crossed paths with aak... unless this is a new incarnation of some other poster and I dont realize it yet....

so in this instance, it was really the what and not the who for me.


I cannot speak for the others.

[aak1972]

honestly, I dont think ive crossed paths with aak... unless this is a new incarnation of some other poster and I dont realize it yet....

so in this instance, it was really the what and not the who for me.


I cannot speak for the others.

Ferd have I really offended you??

[rgcraig]

Say what you really mean. WHO?

I don't have anyone in mind - - what I'm saying is this same conversation has been hashed out before between a different group of posters - - it didn't seem to be an issue then.

[Ferd]

Ferd have I really offended you??

offended me? Now how in the world would I have eleven thousand posts on this forum and be offended by as innocuous a thread as this?
As forum dust ups go, this one hardly has anything in it worthy of being considered offensive! LOL!

No you didnt offend me. You didnt even come close.

[2020Vision]

I don't have anyone in mind - - what I'm saying is this same conversation has been hashed out before between a different group of posters - - it didn't seem to be an issue then.

I can't speak for the previous posters. I think some of us are just trying to get to the bottom of this. Is it a genuine interest in wanting to preach more about gluttony, or yet another snide attempt at poking fun of Apostolics, namely the stereotype about waistlines.

Secondly, the original poster himself has declared this to be a grand experiment (for his social science class presumably since school is almost out).

I've seen many threads repeated over and over in different ways.

[Cindy]

I don't have anyone in mind - - what I'm saying is this same conversation has been hashed out before between a different group of posters - - it didn't seem to be an issue then.

I think you're right. Again!!!!!!:penguin

[aak1972]

I started this thread simply for my enertainment. If that offends anyone I am sorry. For the one of you that got caught up in it dont blame that on me, it might be time to look in the mirror. I have also learned a lot about 2020 , man what a temper and then he resorts to name calling. I am deeply hurt and may never see Apostolics the same. And a grand experiment you need to practice up on your discernment skills I said for my enertainment.

[2020Vision]

offended me? Now how in the world would I have eleven thousand posts on this forum and be offended by as innocuous a thread as this?
As forum dust ups go, this one hardly has anything in it worthy of being considered offensive! LOL!

No you didnt offend me. You didnt even come close.

Ditto. Not to say I haven't made certain judgements for future interaction with this poster.

[rgcraig]

Here's a thread where this has been discussed before -- interesting posts there.

Attitudes are a bit different because of who asked the question. Doesn't seem to be an attempt to paint them as only trying to discredit Apostolics for not being consistent. All I've been trying to say is the attitudes shown on this thread seem to have been thwarted because of some unknowns posting. Not saying it's right or wrong - just trying to make some sense of it all.

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=18598

[2020Vision]

deeply hurt? Never see Apostolics the same? Can even be serious?
No, I'm blunt and straight with my words. You and some others prefer to play the game. Name calling? Perhaps evidence would help. You ACTED and were BEING as one ignorant and immature. I don't think anyone got "caught up" in anything. This was a fairly typical post like many others on here. If it exacerbates your pleasure and entertainment senses, we'll let you believe that.

[edjen01]

aak1972....I am not offended by your cause for this thread....I have had some interesting discussion. But I definitely will think twice before reading or answering you or another of your threads.

fool me once....shame on you....fool me twice....

[Cindy]

Here's a thread where this has been discussed before -- interesting posts there.

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=18598

I think the difference might be that this thread started out with a different premise. The other was more about overeating being gluttony. This one seemed to be about preachers not preaching that it's as sinful to overeat as it is to smoke. Although neither argument has a scripture for it in black and white, as some claim. Gluttony does not refer to only over indulgence in food.

[Amos]

if it makes you feel better to say that, lay on.... im not offended by the statement.


and it does nothing to the reality that this thread isnt about smoking or gluttany.

its about proving hypocracy in those who are doing their best to live holy lives.

That is exactly how it reads to me.

I'm glad I am not the only one who sees it.

There is a deeply ingrained hostility toward holiness, strong new birth people here.

It didn't used to be that way, but it is now.

Vitriolic and venomous is how I would describe it.

But it's ok. I understand exactly why.

[aak1972]

aak1972....I am not offended by your cause for this thread....I have had some interesting discussion. But I definitely will think twice before reading or answering you or another of your threads.

fool me once....shame on you....fool me twice....

I hate that you feel that way. And I can understand why. However I did have my own selfish agenda in starting this thread.

[Esther]

I think what is being said here is the messeges being preached on smoking and drinking and not being preached on the other unhealthy things in the world I have heard plenty testify how jesus saved them from drinking and smoking but never heard anyone testify about being delivered from KFC,POYPES OR CHURCHES CHICKEN I myself personally think this should not be preached since it is not biblical about smoking and drinking but you should use common since.

Did you vote for Obama? lol

There are a lot of common sense reasons to not smoke; I have only read the first 20 pages and need to go for awhile, but no one up to that point has mentioned the unbelievable high cost of cigerattes. That alone would motivate me not to smoke. :)

[Amos]

What is really surprising me is this has been discussed numerous times on AFF - not sure why some are so up in arms today.

I think it's more about people than the subject.

Why we are so up in arms?

Oh, maybe because being mocked and baited gets old.

You answer questions as if they were sincere, only to be sneered at and told the poster doing the asking just wanted to see if he could manipulate you.

That might do it.

[Theresa]

I would like to know why tobacco is a sin? Is it b/c its unhealthy? If thats the case a lot of things could be added to the list. Sugar, sodium, and phenylalanine. The last one is found in diet drinks and is known to cause multiple health issues. Is it b/c of the addiction? I have read that nicotine has the same addictive qualities as herion. If thats the case we should still adhere to the preachers I heard years ago preaching against caffiene.

I dont personally think smoking is anymore sinful than gluttony and or any other addictive, harmful activity.

[aak1972]

That is exactly how it reads to me.

I'm glad I am not the only one who sees it.

There is a deeply ingrained hostility toward holiness, strong new birth people here.

It didn't used to be that way, but it is now.

Vitriolic and venomous is how I would describe it.

But it's ok. I understand exactly why.

I did not ask this question to bash holiness. It really was an honest question that I still have no clear answer on. I am currently happy being what most on here would consider an ultra-con. Atleast I didnt start a thread objections to the Bible!

[Ferd]

I did not ask this question to bash holiness. It really was an honest question that I still have no clear answer on. I am currently happy being what most on here would consider an ultra-con.

but isnt the answer really simple?

sin is sin. smoking is a sin and gluttany is a sin. justifying one and preaching against the other is wrong.

Isnt it just that simple? havent we already said that?

[2020Vision]

I did not ask this question to bash holiness. It really was an honest question that I still have no clear answer on. I am currently happy being what most on here would consider an ultra-con.

Both of these statements contrasts your most recent posts. Which is true?

[Amos]

Both of these statements contrasts your most recent posts. Which is true?


I don't really think we can put much stock in what he says.

He contradicts himself, and plays little word games.

Not interested, myself.

[aak1972]

but isnt the answer really simple?

sin is sin. smoking is a sin and gluttany is a sin. justifying one and preaching against the other is wrong.

Isnt it just that simple? havent we already said that?

My question was not about gluttony. It was why are other things that have proven to be addictive (caffiene) and harmful (phenylalanine) not preached against. I am not trying to justify anything. Just a question.

[rgcraig]

Why we are so up in arms?

Oh, maybe because being mocked and baited gets old.

You answer questions as if they were sincere, only to be sneered at and told the poster doing the asking just wanted to see if he could manipulate you.

That might do it.

I do understand that being mocked and baited does get old.

[aak1972]

Both of these statements contrasts your most recent posts. Which is true?

Both it was a honest question that I knew would get a lot of response and that would make my day go by a lot faster since I have no court dates or clients to see till after christmas. And I still have no answer.

[Praxeas]

That is exactly how it reads to me.

I'm glad I am not the only one who sees it.

There is a deeply ingrained hostility toward holiness, strong new birth people here.

It didn't used to be that way, but it is now.

Vitriolic and venomous is how I would describe it.

But it's ok. I understand exactly why.
There are people here that Do NOT believe in Holiness standards. There always were, here, NFCF and at FCF. There are people here, and always were, that are One steppers. It was ALWAYS that way.

[aak1972]

why we are so up in arms?

Oh, maybe because being mocked and baited gets old.

You answer questions as if they were sincere, only to be sneered at and told the poster doing the asking just wanted to see if he could manipulate you.

That might do it.

When did i become a pastor??????!!!!!!!! Wow !!!!!!

[Cindy]

My question was not about gluttony. It was why are other things that have proven to be addictive (caffiene) and harmful (phenylalanine) not preached against. I am not trying to justify anything. Just a question.

I would like to know why tobacco is a sin? Is it b/c its unhealthy? If thats the case a lot of things could be added to the list. Sugar, sodium, and phenylalanine. The last one is found in diet drinks and is known to cause multiple health issues. Is it b/c of the addiction? I have read that nicotine has the same addictive qualities as herion. If thats the case we should still adhere to the preachers I heard years ago preaching against caffiene.

This is the original post.

[rgcraig]

When did i become a pastor??????!!!!!!!! Wow !!!!!!

Poster - not Pastor.

[Cindy]

You probably won't get many responses on this - I don't believe bible-thumpers can defend this - all the other stuff you listed is just as unhealthy if not unhealthier as smoking. They like to quote the "strong drink" scripture about drinking alcohol but alcoholic beverages are NOT the only strong drink - they want to preach against smoking the whole time downing cokes, coffee and fried chicken - but you let them catch me with a cigarette and oh my goodness - I am defiling my body, the temple of God (if they can say that much without stuffing their mouth full of fat infested, carbohydrate filled food) - does that state how I feel about it - LOL. Let me smoke 10 cigarettes a week and compare my health to someone who eats 10 meals a week at a fast food restaurant and let's see who is in better health - I would bet any amount of money I WOULD BE IN MUCH BETTER HEALTH!!!

I think this is the post that actually started the argument. By jtork.

[Praxeas]

Poster - not Pastor.
lol...

[rgcraig]

There are people here that Do NOT believe in Holiness standards. There always were, here, NFCF and at FCF. There are people here, and always were, that are One steppers. It was ALWAYS that way.

:santathumb

[Ferd]

My question was not about gluttony. It was why are other things that have proven to be addictive (caffiene) and harmful (phenylalanine) not preached against. I am not trying to justify anything. Just a question.

well I think that is a huge question and appears quite different than how you framed the orriginal question....

but if you want to talk about that I honestly think there is a huge difference between caffiene and nicotine.

you cannot smoke in moderation and not be harmed. you can drink coffee in moderation and not only not be harmed but actually get some benifits.

I dont know what Phenylalanine is.

As for gluttany, I really dont think most folk really know what that means. if one think it means eating too much from time to time, I would suggest that isnt a very good definition.

[aak1972]

Poster - not Pastor.

O man I thaught i was being called!!!!!!

[Praxeas]

2Ti 2:24 And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil,
2Ti 2:25 correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth,
2Ti 2:26 and they may escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.

[aak1972]

well I think that is a huge question and appears quite different than how you framed the orriginal question....

but if you want to talk about that I honestly think there is a huge difference between caffiene and nicotine.

you cannot smoke in moderation and not be harmed. you can drink coffee in moderation and not only not be harmed but actually get some benifits.

I dont know what Phenylalanine is.

As for gluttany, I really dont think most folk really know what that means. if one think it means eating too much from time to time, I would suggest that isnt a very good definition.

I am sorry if my original question did not come across like this one. But this is really what I wanted an answer to. phenylalanine is the chemical in diet drinks to give them a sweeter taste and has proven to have extremely harmful health hazards.

[Amos]

When did i become a pastor??????!!!!!!!! Wow !!!!!!

I said "poster."

[aak1972]

I said "poster."

Yea see that lol!!

[Praxeas]

Pastor poster?

[Ferd]

I am sorry if my original question did not come across like this one. But this is really what I wanted an answer to. phenylalanine is the chemical in diet drinks to give them a sweeter taste and has proven to have extremely harmful health hazards.

well brother, concerning diet drinks, I have always taken a HARD stand against them!

LOL.

the question is, are they harmful in moderation? ie 1 drink or less a day?

I am coming around to viewing High Fructose Corn Syrup as very damaging to the human body almost as damaging as cigerettes.

[aak1972]

well I think that is a huge question and appears quite different than how you framed the orriginal question....

but if you want to talk about that I honestly think there is a huge difference between caffiene and nicotine.

you cannot smoke in moderation and not be harmed. you can drink coffee in moderation and not only not be harmed but actually get some benifits.

I dont know what Phenylalanine is.

As for gluttany, I really dont think most folk really know what that means. if one think it means eating too much from time to time, I would suggest that isnt a very good definition.

Ok i am with you on the moderation thing. And you are very correct about the high fructose cor syrup!

[aak1972]

I had a nearly 12 cokes a day habit! I know first hand the health and addictive nature of soft drinks!

[Praxeas]

Has anyone ever thought of looking at some of these issues more dynamically? Rather than labeling everything a sin and then pressuring people to conform, maybe just maybe if we stressed a closer walk with Jesus on a spiritual level people's hearts and minds would be changed to the point that they would stop leaning on stuff like food and tobacco for support and lean on Jesus?

[Ferd]

Ok i am with you on the moderation thing. And you are very correct about the high fructose cor syrup!

great! then you now have your answer!

[aak1972]

Has anyone ever thought of looking at some of these issues more dynamically? Rather than labeling everything a sin and then pressuring people to conform, maybe just maybe if we stressed a closer walk with Jesus on a spiritual level people's hearts and minds would be changed to the point that they would stop leaning on stuff like food and tobacco for support and lean on Jesus?

Best idea I have heard all day!

[Ferd]

I had a nearly 12 cokes a day habit! I know first hand the health and addictive nature of soft drinks!

that would be quite sinful if you ask me!

[aak1972]

great! then you now have your answer!

Almost! Yea I found it to be also! I hated the fact that I was addicted more than the health issues!

[rgcraig]

well brother, concerning diet drinks, I have always taken a HARD stand against them!

LOL.

the question is, are they harmful in moderation? ie 1 drink or less a day?

I am coming around to viewing High Fructose Corn Syrup as very damaging to the human body almost as damaging as cigerettes.

Yep!

So is the difference to you the habitual side of smoking that makes it worse to you?

Actually, I'm a carboholic - - which is damaging too, so we are back to the orginal question - - is it a sin too?

[Ferd]

Has anyone ever thought of looking at some of these issues more dynamically? Rather than labeling everything a sin and then pressuring people to conform, maybe just maybe if we stressed a closer walk with Jesus on a spiritual level people's hearts and minds would be changed to the point that they would stop leaning on stuff like food and tobacco for support and lean on Jesus?

Prax, what you are suggesting is that we practice good teaching.... that is what Ive pretty much been given my whole life.


but I grew up in the home of a God called teacher (not a preacher). So maybe I am blessed.

[rgcraig]

Prax, what you are suggesting is that we practice good teaching.... that is what Ive pretty much been given my whole life.


but I grew up in the home of a God called teacher (not a preacher). So maybe I am blessed.

Moderation - - that was what I was taught all my life.

[Ferd]

Yep!

So is the difference to you the habitual side of smoking that makes it worse to you?

Actually, I'm a carboholic - - which is damaging too, so we are back to the orginal question - - is it a sin too?

Renda, there is nothing redeming about smoking. nothing. everything about nicotine in all its forms is first harmful to the human body from ones first encounter. Putting a loaded gun in your mouth and pulling the trigger isnt addictive but it is harmful. I dont suggest it.

the addictive nature of smoking is just one more reason to add to the already deadly reasons not to smoke, and to consider the use of nicotine sinful.

[Ferd]

Moderation - - that was what I was taught all my life.

Moderation where there is something of value. Not moderation with something that has no value.


You cannot have moderation in adultry. You cannot have moderation in gluttany, you cannot have moderation in smoking.


You can eat bacon in moderation. You can drink caffiene in moderation.

you can even eat ice cream in moderation (or so I have heard)....I would even argue that a glass of wine is not only moderate but biblical...although I do not drink alcohol.

[rgcraig]

Moderation where there is something of value. Not moderation with something that has no value.


You cannot have moderation in adultry. You cannot have moderation in gluttany, you cannot have moderation in smoking.


You can eat bacon in moderation. You can drink caffiene in moderation.

you can even eat ice cream in moderation (or so I have heard)....I would even argue that a glass of wine is not only moderate but biblical...although I do not drink alcohol.
Agreed!

[aak1972]

Ok people I get to leave the office now! If I offended anyone please accept my apologies! I do admit I had my own selfish agenda on this thread. I have also been made aware that I am addicted to arguements. So I will try to break this addiction starting with AFF. My goal is to stay away from the argumentative threads.

[Ferd]

Ok people I get to leave the office now! If I offended anyone please accept my apologies! I do admit I had my own selfish agenda on this thread. I have also been made aware that I am addicted to arguements. So I will try to break this addiction starting with AFF. My goal is to stay away from the argumentative threads.

well personally I want to thank you! I needed to get my post count up. ive been off my game the last few days with work and sundry other distractions!

Ive got a couple of posters nipping at my heals right now so it was a good day all in all!

bagged a couple of liberals, got the post count up, who can complain?

[Michael Phelps]

Sin or not? Does it please God?

To him therefore that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

I'm not interpreting your position for you. I'm taking you at the words I'm reading, which is something we all do. But if you think I'm misunderstanding you, I've asked to to clarify.

Ok, I'm back. I had an incident here at work and one of my employees is in the Med Center right now, and the paperwork and phone calls are overwhelming.

Anyway, here's my position:

I DO think smoking is a sin. Is it a sin that will send you to hell?

I'm not sure that I can say the act of smoking a cigarette will send one to hell, but I would say that any person who desires to please God, and who's heart is right before God would want to rid themselves of this filthy, destructive habit.

If there is a person who does not WANT to stop smoking, and is looking for a loophole to continue smoking, I would say they have "heart" issues, and I can definitively state that a heart issue can cause a person to be lost.

I would say this about many things that the Bible does not specifically call out as sin, so it's not just smoking. Smoking is an outward manifestation of an inward craving that is not controlled.

Now, I realize there are people who have recently been saved who may be struggling to rid themselves of the addiction, but I can also say that anyone who really wants to quit can and will quit. My father is a shining example of this. Before he was saved, he was a two pack a day smoker, and drank all of his money away. He was twice divorced, a bar room brawler, and when he met my mother, she told him she would never dream of dating him until he got saved. He was baptized in Jesus' name, received the Holy Ghost, and to this day - 47 years later - he has never touched another drop of alcohol, nor had nicotine to his lips.

Again, let me emphatically state that I believe smoking is a sin, and for the same reasons many of my worthy opponents on this thread have stated, and if a person's heart is right with God, they will WANT to quit this habit, as well as many others.

Now, to my original point, it's inconsistent to tell someone that the habit of smoking in and of itself will send them to hell, because it's destroying their body, when we don't tell them the same thing about other destructive habits.

Hopefully, that's straightforward enough for you, 2020!

[Michael Phelps]

I didn't write the book...just telling you how we treat it in substance abuse counseling:christmoose Anything can be an addiction...just like mine is chocolate:santathumb

I know you didn't write the book, Rhoni, that wasn't my point.

I would totally agree that smoking is an addiction. There is a part of the brain that nicotine travels to that makes a person feel temporarily calmer.

But, to classify it as a mental illness? Unbelievable!

[Ferd]

Hey Mike while you were gone we lobbed some molotov cocktails at each other, shot from the hip,

then settled down to the dirty business of answering the question.

so to catch you up.

smoking is a sin. eating too much is not glutany. drinking 12 cokes is a sin. one cup of coffee a day isnt.

we need to learn the difference between moderation where some things are concerned and the need to abstain from other things that are harmful from the get-go.


problem solved, post counts raised, and all is right in the world.

[mizpeh]

Now, to my original point, it's inconsistent to tell someone that the habit of smoking in and of itself will send them to hell, because it's destroying their body, when we don't tell them the same thing about other destructive habits.

So it's an underlying principle across the board that you would like to see taught which is what 20/20 has been saying his pastor teaches. :santathumb

[2020Vision]

Moderation where there is something of value. Not moderation with something that has no value.


You cannot have moderation in adultry. You cannot have moderation in gluttany, you cannot have moderation in smoking.


You can eat bacon in moderation. You can drink caffiene in moderation.

you can even eat ice cream in moderation (or so I have heard)....I would even argue that a glass of wine is not only moderate but biblical...although I do not drink alcohol.

Amen.

[Michael Phelps]

Hey Mike while you were gone we lobbed some molotov cocktails at each other, shot from the hip,

then settled down to the dirty business of answering the question.

so to catch you up.

smoking is a sin. eating too much is not glutany. drinking 12 cokes is a sin. one cup of coffee a day isnt.

we need to learn the difference between moderation where some things are concerned and the need to abstain from other things that are harmful from the get-go.


problem solved, post counts raised, and all is right in the world.

Yeah, I just read thru the entire thread, and had to refrain from posting responses so I wouldn't lose my place!

I am complete and total agreement with this!

I would like to see health classes taught as part of "taking care of the temple".

Let me recap:

*I am firmly AGAINST smoking, it is a filthy, destructive habit, and it is detrimental for anyone who is trying to please God.


*I think we need to teach it as such, instead of just telling people they will go to hell if they do it.

*I think we need to teach people the same thing about eating, drinking, general nutrition, etc.

Some may say, "There's no place in the church for that type of teaching".

Well, I beg to differ - If God thought it was important enough to teach the Israelites about nutrition and avoiding disease to devote entire chapters in the OT, I do not think we would be out of line to teach it in 2008. ESPECIALLY in 2008!

[Michael Phelps]

So it's an underlying principle across the board that you would like to see taught which is what 20/20 has been saying his pastor teaches. :santathumb

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[2020Vision]

Ok, I'm back. I had an incident here at work and one of my employees is in the Med Center right now, and the paperwork and phone calls are overwhelming.

Anyway, here's my position:

I DO think smoking is a sin. Is it a sin that will send you to hell?

I'm not sure that I can say the act of smoking a cigarette will send one to hell, but I would say that any person who desires to please God, and who's heart is right before God would want to rid themselves of this filthy, destructive habit.

If there is a person who does not WANT to stop smoking, and is looking for a loophole to continue smoking, I would say they have "heart" issues, and I can definitively state that a heart issue can cause a person to be lost.

I would say this about many things that the Bible does not specifically call out as sin, so it's not just smoking. Smoking is an outward manifestation of an inward craving that is not controlled.

Now, I realize there are people who have recently been saved who may be struggling to rid themselves of the addiction, but I can also say that anyone who really wants to quit can and will quit. My father is a shining example of this. Before he was saved, he was a two pack a day smoker, and drank all of his money away. He was twice divorced, a bar room brawler, and when he met my mother, she told him she would never dream of dating him until he got saved. He was baptized in Jesus' name, received the Holy Ghost, and to this day - 47 years later - he has never touched another drop of alcohol, nor had nicotine to his lips.

Again, let me emphatically state that I believe smoking is a sin, and for the same reasons many of my worthy opponents on this thread have stated, and if a person's heart is right with God, they will WANT to quit this habit, as well as many others.

Now, to my original point, it's inconsistent to tell someone that the habit of smoking in and of itself will send them to hell, because it's destroying their body, when we don't tell them the same thing about other destructive habits.

Hopefully, that's straightforward enough for you, 2020!

Nothing like exchanging 20 posts only for the other guy to say he's saying the same thing! ha! Well, with exception to the part in bold, which I haven't quite decided yet how it can be reconciled: I DO think smoking is a sin. Is it a sin that will send you to hell?

I'm not sure that I can say the act of smoking a cigarette will send one to hell,

But I'm never quick to press the "Go to Hell" button. As long as we can agree it's sinful though! :santathumb

[Michael Phelps]

Nothing like exchanging 20 posts only for the other guy to say he's saying the same thing! ha! Well, with exception to the part in bold, which I haven't quite decided yet how it can be reconciled: I DO think smoking is a sin. Is it a sin that will send you to hell?

I'm not sure that I can say the act of smoking a cigarette will send one to hell,

But I'm never quick to press the "Go to Hell" button. As long as we can agree it's sinful though! :santathumb

I knew we agreed, it just took a while to get there!

I go back to my original premise, if a born again Christian doesn't want to stop smoking, there is something not quite right in their heart, and a wrong heart will cause someone to be lost - plain and simple.

[dizzyde]

I did not say it was the only definition but is is a definition and you are too defensive - I know pentecostals are not the only ones that overeat - geeze - but this an "apostolic" website thus why I said that - lighten up. I am sorry you suffer from COPD - but do you have "poor little ole me" syndrome?

OK, I only made it to about page 10 of this lovely thread before jumping to the end, and it looks like everyone is leaving happy, but I just need to say a couple of things...

First off, "hey, new guy, STEP BACK OFF OF GRANNY CINDY"!!!!!! :foottap :girlfriend

[dizzyde]

Caffiene is not neccesary for survival....... It is necesary for REvival.


Secondly; :highfive :amen

:party :happydance :happydance

[2020Vision]

OK, I only made it to about page 10 of this lovely thread before jumping to the end, and it looks like everyone is leaving happy, but I just need to say a couple of things...

First off, "hey, new guy, STEP BACK OFF OF GRANNY CINDY"!!!!!! :foottap :girlfriend

HAHA Who's the Grandma?

[dizzyde]

HAHA Who's the Grandma?

Our resident granny is Cindy, formerly known as Cneastx. She has a thread right now showing off her grandkids, and ain't nobody pickin on her without my say-so!! :christmoose

[2020Vision]

Our resident granny is Cindy, formerly known as Cneastx. She has a thread right now showing off her grandkids, and ain't nobody pickin on her without my say-so!! :christmoose

Yes, maam!

I didn't know she was being picked on though! But I also didn't know she was a grandma.

Off Subject: Hey where is Brattified? I always enjoy her posts. Haven't seen her lately.

[dizzyde]

Yes, maam!

I didn't know she was being picked on though! But I also didn't know she was a grandma.

Off Subject: Hey where is Brattified? I always enjoy her posts. Haven't seen her lately.

She is like the wind... She comes and she goes, and no one knows where... :christmoose

Seriously, she has small children and with holidays in full force, she is probably pretty busy right now. It is only those of us without lives who are able to indulge in AFF right now!! :jolly

Actually, I am neglecting things to be here, I am really working on my guilt complex, it seems to be damaged... :christmasjig

[Pressing-On]

She is like the wind... She comes and she goes, and no one knows where... :christmoose


Diz,
She's not going to appreciate you telling people she has gas!

:doggyrun

[COOPER]

Smoking is great! Makes meat tasty!

[dizzyde]

Diz,
She's not going to appreciate you telling people she has gas!

:doggyrun

:uhoh :whistle :largehalo

[Hoovie]

I like the smell of bourbon soaked cigars and pipe tobacco. My wife does not. Guess whose conscience wins out?

[Revelationist]

I would like to know why tobacco is a sin? Is it b/c its unhealthy? If thats the case a lot of things could be added to the list. Sugar, sodium, and phenylalanine. The last one is found in diet drinks and is known to cause multiple health issues. Is it b/c of the addiction? I have read that nicotine has the same addictive qualities as herion. If thats the case we should still adhere to the preachers I heard years ago preaching against caffiene.

I see no difference in smoking than over eatting and being overweight. There are some things that if done in moderation are not bad for you, but over indulging in them is.... so wisdom has to be used... tobacco like herion is bad for you even in moderation...

[Cindy]

OK, I only made it to about page 10 of this lovely thread before jumping to the end, and it looks like everyone is leaving happy, but I just need to say a couple of things...

First off, "hey, new guy, STEP BACK OFF OF GRANNY CINDY"!!!!!! :foottap :girlfriend

:highfive

[Cindy]

I like the smell of bourbon soaked cigars and pipe tobacco. My wife does not. Guess whose conscience wins out?

Kristen's!

[Hoovie]

Kristen's!

No it's spelled with an i - Kristin! :santathumb

[Aquila]

I think we can all agree that smoking isn't the best for one's health. The question is still, is it a "sin". If it's a "sin" then smoking becomes a Heaven or Hell issue.

My personal opinion, is that smoking isn't a sin.

So the admonishment to quit smoking should be based on a sincere concern with one's health and general welfare, not Hellfire dogma.

I'll confess, when I'm old and grey, I'm going to sit on my back porch on rainy Saturday mornings, study my Bible, sip on a glass of expensive brandy, and enjoy a nice pipe. lol

[Randy Davis]

I want to weigh in on this one. I started smoking when I was 19 and backslidden. I came back to the Lord two or three years later. It took me over ten years to kick this habit! Whether smoking is a sin or not I don't know, but I can honestly say cigarettes are the devil!

I have done my research and the modern cigarette is a finely tuned instrument of nicotine addiction. It hads been specifically developed to deliver a high of nicotine that will last about an hour or two before the user needs another hit.

I see this as an issue of living life more abundantly, not sin or heaven/hell. I have met very few people who are over 25 and are happy that they smoke. Go talk to some smokers and they will tell you how many times they have tried to quit.

If there is someone out there who is struggling with this addiction, don't look for excuses to stay smoking. So what if you can stay saved and smoke? Thats not going to give you life more abundantly. If you partner with God he can and will deliver you of nicotine addiction! I am living proof.

[Michael Phelps]

I want to weigh in on this one. I started smoking when I was 19 and backslidden. I came back to the Lord two or three years later. It took me over ten years to kick this habit! Whether smoking is a sin or not I don't know, but I can honestly say cigarettes are the devil!

I have done my research and the modern cigarette is a finely tuned instrument of nicotine addiction. It hads been specifically developed to deliver a high of nicotine that will last about an hour or two before the user needs another hit.

I see this as an issue of living life more abundantly, not sin or heaven/hell. I have met very few people who are over 25 and are happy that they smoke. Go talk to some smokers and they will tell you how many times they have tried to quit.

If there is someone out there who is struggling with this addiction, don't look for excuses to stay smoking. So what if you can stay saved and smoke? Thats not going to give you life more abundantly. If you partner with God he can and will deliver you of nicotine addiction! I am living proof.

Post of the day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Excellent!

[Ferd]

I want to weigh in on this one. I started smoking when I was 19 and backslidden. I came back to the Lord two or three years later. It took me over ten years to kick this habit! Whether smoking is a sin or not I don't know, but I can honestly say cigarettes are the devil!

I have done my research and the modern cigarette is a finely tuned instrument of nicotine addiction. It hads been specifically developed to deliver a high of nicotine that will last about an hour or two before the user needs another hit.

I see this as an issue of living life more abundantly, not sin or heaven/hell. I have met very few people who are over 25 and are happy that they smoke. Go talk to some smokers and they will tell you how many times they have tried to quit.

If there is someone out there who is struggling with this addiction, don't look for excuses to stay smoking. So what if you can stay saved and smoke? Thats not going to give you life more abundantly. If you partner with God he can and will deliver you of nicotine addiction! I am living proof.


Good words Randy! very good words.

[meBNme]

Our resident granny is Cindy, formerly known as Cneastx. She has a thread right now showing off her grandkids, and ain't nobody pickin on her without my say-so!! :christmoose

I'm gunna pick on both of yall!

Wathcha got to say about that?
Huh? Huh?

[meBNme]

I like the smell of bourbon soaked cigars and pipe tobacco. My wife does not. Guess whose conscience wins out?

weeeeel.... lets see.


Are you a happy man?

then your wife won.





In the dog house?

then you wo........ OK, you um..... yeah she won.

[Timmy]

I like the smell of bourbon soaked cigars and pipe tobacco. My wife does not. Guess whose conscience wins out?

You need a Man Cave! A very well ventilated Man Cave! :santathumb

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover
I like the smell of bourbon soaked cigars and pipe tobacco. My wife does not. Guess whose conscience wins out?

My dad used to smoke Bourbon flavored Borkum Riff with his pipe.

I always liked the smell of it (before it was smoked mind you... I simply cannot handle smoke of any kind... when my kids open the firebox and some smoke gets in the house I about lose my breath).

When we would walk into the tobacco store when I was a kid I always liked the smell too.

[Hoovie]

weeeeel.... lets see.


Are you a happy man?

then your wife won.





In the dog house?

then you wo........ OK, you um..... yeah she won.

Kristen's!

You need a Man Cave! A very well ventilated Man Cave! :santathumb

My dad used to smoke Bourbon flavored Borkum Riff with his pipe.

I always liked the smell of it (before it was smoked mind you... I simply cannot handle smoke of any kind... when my kids open the firebox and some smoke gets in the house I about lose my breath).

When we would walk into the tobacco store when I was a kid I always liked the smell too.

Yep.

At some point, and at some level, it can become a moot issue whether things are sin and "heaven and hell" dealbreakers.

What if one indulged in a pleasurable innocent activity, but consequently made is own life hell on earth??

:jolly

[Neck]

You can't smoke here the question one might ask will you be smoking there?

[HaShaliach]

Forty five pages and 445 posts! Mercy! Smoking, eating, drinking, even sex and who know what all? Gambling? I could not work my way through all of the posts.

In answer to the original (and following issues): Can you do in any of these things here? The clear answer is no, you can not. First, because it is physically impossible to do so! This is an electric environment, not a “physical” one. Also, the question is: Are engaging in any of these things, in and of themselves a sin? No, rather one does not do engage in these activities on this board because none of these behaviors are appropriate to a forum of this nature.

!. There are too many with weak consciences. Don't let your liberty be spoken evil of: Don’t be a stumbling block to your brother.

2. There are those to whom many things are a sin, and to them they are sins indeed. For some people, everything is evil. So others, nothing is a sin!

3. To bring up such subjects for discussion generally results in inviting controversy, contention, judgments and condemnation.

These things bring do not bring harmony, unity nor edification to the body of Christ, so why engage in them? Simple, they are an attraction to our carnal appetites.

Obviously pastors, teachers and other suchlike church elders have failed miserably in their assigned responsibilities to (1) rightly divide the word of truth, and (2) to effectively teach the assemblies the basics of spiritual living. The other failing, is that of the individual saints to study the word of God for them selves - in an honest manner.

Too much church dogma and weak doctrines - not enough Word and Holy Spirit.

[2020Vision]

Forty five pages! Mercy! Smoking, eating, drinking, even sex and who know what all? Gambling? I could not work my way through all of the posts.

In answer to the original (and following issues): Can you do in any of these things here? The clear answer is no, you can not. First, because it is physically impossible to do so! This is an electric environment, not a “physical” one. Also, the question is: Are engaging in any of these things, in and of themselves a sin? No, rather one does not do engage in these activities on this board because none of these behaviors are appropriate to a forum of this nature.

!. There are too many with weak consciences. Don't let your liberty be spoken evil of: Don’t be a stumbling block to your brother.

2. There are those to whom many things are a sin, and to them they are sins indeed. For some people, everything is evil.

3. To bring up such subjects for discussion generally results in inviting controversy, contention, judgments and condemnation.

These things bring do not bring harmony, unity nor edification to the body of Christ, so why engage in them? Simple, they are an attraction to our carnal appetites.

Obviously pastors, teachers and other suchlike church elders have failed miserably in their assigned responsibilities to (1) rightly divide the word of truth, and (2) to effectively teach the assemblies the basics of spiritual living. The other failing, is that of the individual saints to study the word of God for them selves - in an honest manner.

Too much church dogma and weak doctrines - not enough Word and Holy Spirit.

Wow, quite an indictment Doc.

[brotherjason]

I smoked when I was younger, haven't done so for years. Then I couldn't have told you why I smoked, now I really wonder why. They stink, they make it hard to breathe and I've seen people almost burn the house down because of them(course that was cigarettes and alcohol mixed). Is it a sin? I don't know, is it stupid? Yup!

[Amos]

Forty five pages and 445 posts! Mercy! Smoking, eating, drinking, even sex and who know what all? Gambling? I could not work my way through all of the posts.

In answer to the original (and following issues): Can you do in any of these things here? The clear answer is no, you can not. First, because it is physically impossible to do so! This is an electric environment, not a “physical” one. Also, the question is: Are engaging in any of these things, in and of themselves a sin? No, rather one does not do engage in these activities on this board because none of these behaviors are appropriate to a forum of this nature.

!. There are too many with weak consciences. Don't let your liberty be spoken evil of: Don’t be a stumbling block to your brother.

2. There are those to whom many things are a sin, and to them they are sins indeed. For some people, everything is evil. So others, nothing is a sin!

3. To bring up such subjects for discussion generally results in inviting controversy, contention, judgments and condemnation.

These things bring do not bring harmony, unity nor edification to the body of Christ, so why engage in them? Simple, they are an attraction to our carnal appetites.

Obviously pastors, teachers and other suchlike church elders have failed miserably in their assigned responsibilities to (1) rightly divide the word of truth, and (2) to effectively teach the assemblies the basics of spiritual living. The other failing, is that of the individual saints to study the word of God for them selves - in an honest manner.

Too much church dogma and weak doctrines - not enough Word and Holy Spirit.

Yep.

Them rotten pastors...bunch of failures. :)

Disclaimer:

No pastor bashing goes on here. I know, because several people have told me.:christmasjig

[Cindy]

You need a Man Cave! A very well ventilated Man Cave! :santathumb

He cleans chimneys ya know. That's got ventilation usually.:christmoose

[HaShaliach]

Sorry for all of the typos in my oroginal missive - and a few grammatical lapses and the addition of one or two “extra” words in a sentence or two. Nimble fingers going much too fast for the time allotted.

No, I don’t really bash pastors, ;) , but I do “hold their feet to the fire”. Because in today’s religious society, pastors are considered to be much like the captain of a ship – and the ultimate responsibility of the church’s conditions rests on them alone. The spiritual maturity or failure of a congregation (individual saints), church growth or death; in all these things and more, pastors have assumed to include in their personal bag of responsibilities. However, I assign equal responsibility to every spiritual leader ("… teachers and other such like church elders".) even down to the individual saint - where true spiritual responsibility really rests!. No. I do not exempt anyone, not even myself.

But really, if the word of God was truly understood and correctly taught, what justification would there be for threads such as this one? Or, threads on standards? Or, discussions concerning the Godhead? Etc.? On subjects such as these we cannot achieve a common understanding among pastors - even within the same organization!

So why is it such a big surprise that the rest of the believers are in such a disarray? No surprise at all! This thread, with all of its posts and its included ancillary subjects stands as a witness to that sad fact.After 2,000 years of study, one would think that by now we would have a sense of unity on such subjects! And, that is in truth a harsh judgment!

[Scott Hutchinson]

I used to smoke left-handed cigarettes.

[HaShaliach]

Hey brother Hutchinson -

It is such a blessing to see you within the assembly. I apologize for dropping in unannounced, as it were, and messing with the pot.

Well, I had my little say, such as it was, so I am off the thread and on to something I hope will be more productive. Somewhere on this forum I think I have a study started on Matthew, starting with chapter five. LOLOL I’ll get back to it right after the rest of the holidays (providing I can find it again). :) Right now I need the break and a little time for additional study.

Shalom Aleichem

[brotherjason]

I used to smoke left-handed cigarettes.

Lol, we are not going with admissions of guilt here are we?

It amazes me that people used to roll their own, smoke pipes and cigars with little effect, now that the tobacco companies spray all that junk on them while the tobacco is growing and then slap filters on them people drop left and right. Maybe the companies should have left well enough alone?

[Aquila]

I want to weigh in on this one. I started smoking when I was 19 and backslidden. I came back to the Lord two or three years later. It took me over ten years to kick this habit! Whether smoking is a sin or not I don't know, but I can honestly say cigarettes are the devil!

I have done my research and the modern cigarette is a finely tuned instrument of nicotine addiction. It hads been specifically developed to deliver a high of nicotine that will last about an hour or two before the user needs another hit.

I see this as an issue of living life more abundantly, not sin or heaven/hell. I have met very few people who are over 25 and are happy that they smoke. Go talk to some smokers and they will tell you how many times they have tried to quit.

If there is someone out there who is struggling with this addiction, don't look for excuses to stay smoking. So what if you can stay saved and smoke? Thats not going to give you life more abundantly. If you partner with God he can and will deliver you of nicotine addiction! I am living proof.

Good post. I think that's a fair analysis.

[Aquila]

I guess I've just never been addicted to smoking. I've smoked recreationally when I was younger but never got hooked. I could set them down, take 'em or leave em.

But here's my vice...I really enjoy a glass of fine wine with dinner or before bed. ;)

[brotherjason]

But here's my vice...I really enjoy a glass of fine wine with dinner or before bed. ;)

So don't the French and Italians and they enjoy longer lives than we do!

[BrotherEastman]

Tex Williams was annoyed by smokers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWXbVsMkz1U
That reminded me of an old Japanese movie. LOL!

[Hoovie]

only if you roll your own.

[Neck]

I would like to know why tobacco is a sin? Is it b/c its unhealthy? If thats the case a lot of things could be added to the list. Sugar, sodium, and phenylalanine. The last one is found in diet drinks and is known to cause multiple health issues. Is it b/c of the addiction? I have read that nicotine has the same addictive qualities as herion. If thats the case we should still adhere to the preachers I heard years ago preaching against caffiene.

Most of what you are talking about is your own risk to your own DNA make up.

When you smoke you are testing the strength of those around you DNA.

Take a risk with yourself. Kill yourself.

Take a risk with others kill others...

Simple concept...

[RandyWayne]

Not only will I not let someone smoke IN our house (as most of you won't), I will not let them smoke in front or in the back yard.

This is a problem because we have relatives who do smoke, but they will just have to "suck it up" and quit for the time they are over.

I don't consider it a 'sin' issue (and DO believe their will be smokers in the bride -contrary to proclamations made by Epley). I just cannot stand it.

[Mrs. LPW]

I want to weigh in on this one. I started smoking when I was 19 and backslidden. I came back to the Lord two or three years later. It took me over ten years to kick this habit! Whether smoking is a sin or not I don't know, but I can honestly say cigarettes are the devil!

I have done my research and the modern cigarette is a finely tuned instrument of nicotine addiction. It hads been specifically developed to deliver a high of nicotine that will last about an hour or two before the user needs another hit.

I see this as an issue of living life more abundantly, not sin or heaven/hell. I have met very few people who are over 25 and are happy that they smoke. Go talk to some smokers and they will tell you how many times they have tried to quit.

If there is someone out there who is struggling with this addiction, don't look for excuses to stay smoking. So what if you can stay saved and smoke? Thats not going to give you life more abundantly. If you partner with God he can and will deliver you of nicotine addiction! I am living proof.


Excellent and heart felt post. Thank you.

[shawndell]

The devil is like a roaring lion roaming to and frough seeking whom he may devour.Satan wants to kill us any way he can before we can witness,share,love,being the greatest of them all and praying for our loved ones salvation.He wants to kill us before our work is done.

[pastorrick1959]

here how i see it . anything you have to get delivered from is sin. smokeing is definitly one of them.if you have never casted a nicoteen spirit off someone, whew its nasty. puke up brown stuff all over the place ..i can think of about 4 times this has happened in our ministry . usually people that smoke or have friends that smoke run to the eating or whatever to cover it up.

when you get done running around your bush it will still be sin ,just because you ease your conscience ,because others agree with you still wont help you either come judgement day.!i shall pray for you . and if you have a spirit of glutony that wrong too.

[edjen01]

here how i see it . anything you have to get delivered from is sin. smokeing is definitly one of them.if you have never casted a nicoteen spirit off someone, whew its nasty. puke up brown stuff all over the place ..i can think of about 4 times this has happened in our ministry . usually people that smoke or have friends that smoke run to the eating or whatever to cover it up.

when you get done running around your bush it will still be sin ,just because you ease your conscience ,because others agree with you still wont help you either come judgement day.!i shall pray for you . and if you have a spirit of glutony that wrong too.

honest question....does every person who smokes have a "nicoteen spirit"? Or do some just smoke?
What about those other things people get addicted to(coffee, chocolate, etc...)...do they have a spirit or just a destructive habit?

[MomOfADramaQn]

honest question....does every person who smokes have a "nicoteen spirit"? Or do some just smoke?
What about those other things people get addicted to(coffee, chocolate, etc...)...do they have a spirit or just a destructive habit?

No one wants to talk about that coffee/chocolate/food destructive habit - just the smoking - I personally see no difference in smoking and any other thing that you willing do that destroys your body but I have never heard any preacher preach it that way.

[RandyWayne]

No one wants to talk about that coffee/chocolate/food destructive habit - just the smoking - I personally see no difference in smoking and any other thing that you willing do that destroys your body but I have never heard any preacher preach it that way.

I don't drink coffee, but will have 3 cans of Coke before noon on most days (and a few more between noon and bedtime). I have yet to hear anyone preaching against Coke -the only one who does is my dentist.

[edjen01]

I guess my question was not so much about what is preached...but rather about what all has a "spirit" attached to it. Do you believe that coke, coffee, and chocolate have "spirits" or are they simple bad?

[RandyWayne]

I believe that the only "spirits" are those associated with living, or once living, things. This idea that there is a spirit to go with everything -be it coffee, nicotine, porn, make-up, music, and the list is truly endless, sounds like something from religion practiced by the original native Americans.

[Threads]

here how i see it . anything you have to get delivered from is sin. smokeing is definitly one of them.if you have never casted a nicoteen spirit off someone, whew its nasty. puke up brown stuff all over the place ..i can think of about 4 times this has happened in our ministry . usually people that smoke or have friends that smoke run to the eating or whatever to cover it up.

when you get done running around your bush it will still be sin ,just because you ease your conscience ,because others agree with you still wont help you either come judgement day.!i shall pray for you . and if you have a spirit of glutony that wrong too.

*Namecalling Edited by Admin* Your thought makes no sence. Run to eating to cover it up? Sorry but that one dosn't hold any weight. Have you ever been around a smoker? They stink. You can't hide it no matter what you do. A spirt of glutony? Then every church going person would be going to hell. :ursofunny

[MomOfADramaQn]

*Edited by admin Your thought makes no sence. Run to eating to cover it up? Sorry but that one dosn't hold any weight. Have you ever been around a smoker? They stink. You can't hide it no matter what you do. A spirt of glutony? Then every church going person would be going to hell. :ursofunny

Well - the bible does say gluttony is a sin - can you make it to heaven with sin in your life?

[edjen01]

*Edited by Admin Your thought makes no sence. Run to eating to cover it up? Sorry but that one dosn't hold any weight. Have you ever been around a smoker? They stink. You can't hide it no matter what you do. A spirt of glutony? Then every church going person would be going to hell. :ursofunny

Threads....your response is the reason why people don't like forums. surely you can state your opinion without resulting to name calling. if you disagree...thats ok...but IMO what you posted is not ok.

[pastorrick1959]

what i meant waas that people that smoke . when u get on the smokers ,they start on eating to much , or cokes or whatever . but that still doesnt change smokeing being addictive ..
cant say i have ever prayed for someone to be delivered off coffee or know of a spirit attached to it ..but tobacco a definite yes. but i do believe some are hooked on coffee and need to be delivered from it . like i have said if ur addicted to anything except god , be it cokes ,coffee or tobacco it is sin to you.!

only thing i gotta have is god.! i dont drink many cokes at all , hate coffee love tea but only drink about 3 glasses a week //drink lots of water real good for ya. i am trying out for worlds oldest man lol.minus all the bad and at least maybe i can increase my odds.