View Full Version : Shock! PAW having Baptist Preacher as a guest SPeaker!!!
At their upcoming National convention this summer in Nashville, The PAW is having A Trinitarian and a Baptist as one of the nightly Speakers!!!!
Bishop Paul S Morton, Head of the full gospel BAPTIST organization is Speaking.
Also, they are having COGIC Evangelist Joyce Rogers on thursday night and COGIC evangelist Prophet Todd Hall for saturday!!!!
So here is the order of their nightly speakers:
monday - oneness
Tuesday - Trinitarian
wednedsay- oneness
thursday oneness
friday- trinitarian
saturday - trinitarian
Last Year they had charles Blake speak and 1/2 of the convention protested and stayed home. I can't believe they would do this again (only more so!) after the firstorm it caused last time.
your opinioins on this please
Fonix
04-23-2007, 05:17 AM
Just from what I know I have a few friends who are actually PAW. In fact, one is a preacher.
Just speaking from the ones I know they arent die hard oneness. I dont understand why they would allow a trinitarian to preach to there people.
I dont believe the Oneness message is preached strong in the PAW at least not to services I have attended there.
Brother Price
04-23-2007, 06:29 AM
I have preached in PAW churches as of recently, and the pastors I have been in with have held hard the Oneness and Acts 2:38 message. If they go to this conference, they will not be attending the nightly trinity pagan preachers come out to preach. They know better.
Steve Epley
04-23-2007, 07:20 AM
The PAW is gone and no longer the organization of G.T. Haywood, Robert Tobin, Carl Smith, P. L. Scott and others. Wagoner-Jones-Braizer-company have led them into apostasy. David Ellis wouldn't even be welcome inhis own church. It is a joke and a bad one at that.
BoredOutOfMyMind
04-23-2007, 08:30 AM
Is Blake looking their way.....
Steve Epley
04-23-2007, 08:41 AM
Is Blake looking their way.....
They are looking Blake's way!:tiphat
MONEY-CROWD-PRESTIGE.
BoredOutOfMyMind
04-23-2007, 08:55 AM
They are looking Blake's way!:tiphat
MONEY-CROWD-PRESTIGE.
Same point, Bro.
The PAW is gone and no longer the organization of G.T. Haywood, Robert Tobin, Carl Smith, P. L. Scott and others. Wagoner-Jones-Braizer-company have led them into apostasy. David Ellis wouldn't even be welcome inhis own church. It is a joke and a bad one at that.
not all of them are for this. in fact some are fighting it and some have left as a result. we have a girl going to college in Los angeles who is going to a PAW church "Peace Apostolic church" a church of about 500. He left for this very reason. he told them, you have Blake preach and I'm GONE. and he did too.
Brother Price
04-23-2007, 12:02 PM
I did something I maybe should not have, but felt I needed to. I e-mailed the PAW asking them to reconsider. I know it may do no good, but for the sake of conscience, I felt I should do something.
I am nothing. But, I know the God of the Bible, and He is more than faithful to restore people back to Apostolic continuance. I pray that repentance sweeps the PAW in a mighty way, and they see their error, and come clean before the Lord. I pray this happens.
Hoovie
04-23-2007, 12:14 PM
Perhaps they need to invite the SBC speaker that we all watched on you tude a few nights ago.
Steve Epley
04-23-2007, 12:16 PM
not all of them are for this. in fact some are fighting it and some have left as a result. we have a girl going to college in Los angeles who is going to a PAW church "Peace Apostolic church" a church of about 500. He left for this very reason. he told them, you have Blake preach and I'm GONE. and he did too.
Good for him. I was sent the document sent by the Bishop of DC but too little too late. It is gone.
Jekyll
04-23-2007, 12:17 PM
At their upcoming National convention this summer in Nashville, The PAW is having A Trinitarian and a Baptist as one of the nightly Speakers!!!!
Bishop Paul S Morton, Head of the full gospel BAPTIST organization is Speaking.
Also, they are having COGIC Evangelist Joyce Rogers on thursday night and COGIC evangelist Prophet Todd Hall for saturday!!!!
So here is the order of their nightly speakers:
monday - oneness
Tuesday - Trinitarian
wednedsay- oneness
thursday oneness
friday- trinitarian
saturday - trinitarian
Last Year they had charles Blake speak and 1/2 of the convention protested and stayed home. I can't believe they would do this again (only more so!) after the firstorm it caused last time.
your opinioins on this please
THE PAW IS GOING DOWN IN FLAMES!!!!!
Oh wait, wrong forum...they only believe that to be true for the UPC here... :grampa
Perhaps they need to invite the SBC speaker that we all watched on you tude a few nights ago.
southern Baptist at PAW convention?? now that i would have to see :slaphappy
David Bernard preached a few Years back. I was told that some were offended by a comment he made. according to the source, he said " I have COLORED People in my church". first, they took it that he was trying to PROVE that he was not racist. next, that term is not well received
* * * News Flash* * *
did You Hear That Sister Vicki Yohe Is Singing At The Paw Convention In Nashville ???????????????????????????????????????
What Do You Think ???
Steve Epley
04-23-2007, 12:35 PM
* * * News Flash* * *
did You Hear That Sister Vicki Yohe Is Singing At The Paw Convention In Nashville ???????????????????????????????????????
What Do You Think ???
She believes and lives about as much as the rest of them so what????? She would fit in without the wig.
without the wig? never heard that expression
Steve Epley
04-23-2007, 12:38 PM
without the wig? never heard that expression
She said she wore the bun wig when singing at UPC meetings.:tiphat
She said she wore the bun wig when singing at UPC meetings.:tiphat
OH!!!! Yes she has done that !:slaphappy
Scott Hutchinson
04-23-2007, 01:12 PM
I may be incorrect here ,but it seems to me alot of folks who were in The PAW have started little orgs.
There are sites out there of groups who have had PAW backgrounds.
jshorts
04-23-2007, 01:17 PM
There's more to truth than a mathmetical equation.
I may be incorrect here ,but it seems to me alot of folks who were in The PAW have started little orgs.
There are sites out there of groups who have had PAW backgrounds.
it's true. They have splintered and split many times over the years.
remember, they are a much older organization than UPC. I believe they were founded in 1913? or maybe 1916.
one of the biggest splits came over the teaching of hair coverings
Scott Hutchinson
04-23-2007, 01:37 PM
Yes Thad that's true but it seems like in recent times there alot of PAW splinter groups , perhaps I can find some links.
Yes Thad that's true but it seems like in recent times there alot of PAW splinter groups , perhaps I can find some links.
you are right. I was just pointing out the one that caused the largest and most historic split
Scott Hutchinson
04-23-2007, 02:20 PM
Thad ,these are some folks with PAW roots.
I'm not sure if one can be PAW. and belong to another org ,or not but these men have their own ministerial fellowships.
http://www.christkingdomchurch.com
http://www.sofcc.com
http://www.pmmw.us
Steve Epley
04-23-2007, 03:09 PM
ALL American Oneness groups have their roots in the PAW.
ALL American Oneness groups have their roots in the PAW.
Epley you are right about that
Thad ,these are some folks with PAW roots.
I'm not sure if one can be PAW. and belong to another org ,or not but these men have their own ministerial fellowships.
http://www.christkingdomchurch.com
http://www.sofcc.com
http://www.pmmw.us
i love the inside of that first church "christ kingdom"
I can't blame some people for leaving organizations - they get so political, so many power struggles. it just has a way of changing the nature of even good people into something terrible
Scott Hutchinson
04-23-2007, 07:09 PM
i love the inside of that first church "christ kingdom"
I can't blame some people for leaving organizations - they get so political, so many power struggles. it just has a way of changing the nature of even good people into something terrible
I don't know Elder Haywood personally but I post on a board with him,and he seems to be a good man.
Thad ,I bet your organ with fit right in,in those places.
Steve Epley
04-23-2007, 07:16 PM
I don't know Elder Haywood personally but I post on a board with him,and he seems to be a good man.
Thad ,I bet your organ with fit right in,in those places.
He died 1931.:coffee2
Scott Hutchinson
04-23-2007, 07:28 PM
He died 1931.:coffee2
I meant Elder Mark Haywood.
Hey who was that PAW preacher from Nashville ,that could shuck the corn ?
He pastored a Grace church or something like that ,his name escapes me at the moment.
Steve Epley
04-23-2007, 07:33 PM
I meant Elder Mark Haywood.
Hey who was that PAW preacher from Nashville ,that could shuck the corn ?
He pastored a Grace church or something like that ,his name escapes me at the moment.
Dr. Melvin Boyd what a preacher and teacher.
Scott Hutchinson
04-23-2007, 07:34 PM
Dr. Melvin Boyd what a preacher and teacher.
Yes that was his name.
He died 1931.:coffee2
are you sure ? I think haywood died in the early 50s
Steve Epley
04-23-2007, 07:49 PM
are you sure ? I think haywood died in the early 50s
Nope Haywood was in his 50's but he died in 1931 and I think Tobin died in 47 0r 48 he followed Haywood. Both were in their 50's when they died.
Nope Haywood was in his 50's but he died in 1931 and I think Tobin died in 47 0r 48 he followed Haywood. Both were in their 50's when they died.
surely Haywood didn't die that long ago- i don't believe it Epley.
I know a lady who said she got the holy ghost in his church Christ temple in Indianapolis.
Steve Epley
04-23-2007, 07:52 PM
surely Haywood didn't die that long ago- i don't believe it Epley.
I know a lady who said she got the holy ghost in his church Christ temple in Indianapolis.
There are many saints yet alive that recieved the Holy Ghost under Haywood but they did it before 31 for he died in 31 that is a fact.
Praxeas
04-23-2007, 07:53 PM
At their upcoming National convention this summer in Nashville, The PAW is having A Trinitarian and a Baptist as one of the nightly Speakers!!!!
Bishop Paul S Morton, Head of the full gospel BAPTIST organization is Speaking.
Also, they are having COGIC Evangelist Joyce Rogers on thursday night and COGIC evangelist Prophet Todd Hall for saturday!!!!
So here is the order of their nightly speakers:
monday - oneness
Tuesday - Trinitarian
wednedsay- oneness
thursday oneness
friday- trinitarian
saturday - trinitarian
Last Year they had charles Blake speak and 1/2 of the convention protested and stayed home. I can't believe they would do this again (only more so!) after the firstorm it caused last time.
your opinioins on this please
Not enough good preachers in the PAW? BTW do they have any white preachers from other Oneness organizations or Trinitarian preaching?
Not enough good preachers in the PAW? BTW do they have any white preachers from other Oneness organizations or Trinitarian preaching?
LIke I said they had david Bernard a few Years ago. from the reports I heard, they didn't care for some comments he said
Scott Hutchinson
04-23-2007, 07:58 PM
Here are some PAW links.
http://afcserv.org
http://greatergrace.org
http://calvaryinternational.org
Scott Hutchinson
04-23-2007, 08:01 PM
What was that bishop's name where Bro.Bernard use to debate at ?
Bishop Trout or something like that ?
What was that bishop's name where Bro.Bernard use to debate at ?
Bishop Trout or something like that ?
Yes BIshop Trout in San Diego. They were originally PAW but they left and started their own organization called IAM . Last Year Trout had to give up his church .. that's all I'll say on that one !!!!
Scott Hutchinson
04-23-2007, 08:15 PM
Let's wasn't that called full power church or something like that ? Or a park something or other ?
Let's wasn't that called full power church or something like that ? Or a park something or other ?
UH ?? you mean the name of Trout's church ??
It's called North Park Apostolic
again, he is no longer the pastor
Scott Hutchinson
04-23-2007, 08:18 PM
UH ?? you mean the name of Trout's church ??
It's called North Park Apostolic
again, he is no longer the pastor
That's it North Park.Spare me the story ,cause if someone fell into moral failure ,I don't need to know the details.
That's it North Park.Spare me the story ,cause if someone fell into moral failure ,I don't need to know the details.
i'll spare you the details (even though it is quite interesting! lol)
Scott Hutchinson
04-23-2007, 08:23 PM
The man ,is not with his wife ,yes I know something about it.
Scott Hutchinson
04-23-2007, 08:29 PM
Thad before I had a home pc ,I used to go online at the library ,and the North Park site was one of the first OP churches I ever saw online.
I used to enjoy that site.
Thad before I had a home pc ,I used to go online at the library ,and the North Park site was one of the first OP churches I ever saw online.
I used to enjoy that site.
the way it all went down was VERY Ugley and Very public! VERY!!!
Praxeas
04-23-2007, 08:33 PM
It appears they have not found a new pastor yet
Scott Hutchinson
04-23-2007, 08:33 PM
I used to remember a org called The UACI online ,but I don't if they still exist or not?
Scott Hutchinson
04-23-2007, 08:34 PM
It appears they have not found a new pastor yet
PRAX apply for the job ,maybe they'll vote you in ?
Praxeas
04-23-2007, 08:37 PM
How much does it pay and can I only work part time like most Pastors? :hypercoffee
Prax,
TRout was a powerful speaker and a charismatic leader. right now the assistant pastor Elder garcia is acting as pastor but I don't know what will transpire at this point
Scott Hutchinson
04-23-2007, 08:41 PM
Yeah the rest of the time you can golf ,and play around on forums.
Sherri
04-23-2007, 09:05 PM
I have preached in PAW churches as of recently, and the pastors I have been in with have held hard the Oneness and Acts 2:38 message. If they go to this conference, they will not be attending the nightly trinity pagan preachers come out to preach. They know better.If you can't listen to a preacher who doesn't believe exactly like you and still remain saved, then it's pretty sad. You can learn something from those who aren't oneness; just take the good and throw out the bad. I can see if this were a new convert or something, but a mature pastor who won't listen to someone else??? Ridiculous!
Brother Price
04-23-2007, 10:04 PM
Why should I sit and listen to those who preach another Jesus? They won't, and I assure you, I would not.
Why should I sit and listen to those who preach another Jesus? They won't, and I assure you, I would not.
Sherri, what is your response to this comment ?
ILuvFPC
04-23-2007, 10:15 PM
If you can't listen to a preacher who doesn't believe exactly like you and still remain saved, then it's pretty sad. You can learn something from those who aren't oneness; just take the good and throw out the bad. I can see if this were a new convert or something, but a mature pastor who won't listen to someone else??? Ridiculous!
i don't think anyone will have a problem staying saved.. but the whole point is why would an "oneness" org have trinnies preaching at their national conference???
Old Paths
04-23-2007, 10:37 PM
i don't think anyone will have a problem staying saved.. but the whole point is why would an "oneness" org have trinnies preaching at their national conference???
Because of race.
Elder Morris Golder stated that PAW preachers had more problem crossing racial lines (black to white) than crossing doctrinal lines (Oneness to trinity).
Smacks of compromise.
Steadfast
04-23-2007, 11:34 PM
Yes BIshop Trout in San Diego. They were originally PAW but they left and started their own organization called IAM . Last Year Trout had to give up his church .. that's all I'll say on that one !!!!
Wow. That's kind of ironic. He had preached one of my messages (not sure where he would have gotten it) and had it on his web site for all to hear. What's bad is that he did much of it word for word.
I didn't know that he wasn't Pastoring now, though.
See what happens if you preach one of my pitiful messages?!?
Wow. That's kind of ironic. He had preached one of my messages (not sure where he would have gotten it) and had it on his web site for all to hear. What's bad is that he did much of it word for word.
I didn't know that he wasn't Pastoring now, though.
See what happens if you preach one of my pitiful messages?!?
are you serious ??? he preached one of your messages?
he probably figured his people would ever know. I'm sure he aint preaching your sermon now.
Steadfast
04-24-2007, 12:00 AM
are you serious ??? he preached one of your messages?
he probably figured his people would ever know. I'm sure he aint preaching your sermon now.
Yep! And put it up on his website. "Frustration's Grande Finale" was my title... kind of interesting to see it up there.
Yep! And put it up on his website. "Frustration's Grande Finale" was my title... kind of interesting to see it up there.
you should have confronted him ! why not ?
Steadfast
04-24-2007, 12:32 AM
you should have confronted him ! why not ?
Why? It wasn't the first time it had happened. I generally don't get too worked up about it.
There was a time that I got a little cranked off about it, however. A certain Evangelist (one you might know even) was traveling and preaching several of my messages. He was also a member of a forum type situation. Not knowing I was on the forum someone called his hand at preaching my messages... He told them that I got the notes from HIM! (I had not, to set the record straight: He asked me for MY notes and I didn't give them to him.) He went on to talk about how much better 'his' version was than mine, anyway... :preach Then someone who knew me and recognized my messages sent me some of his messages from a revival... sure enough, practically word for word and even USED MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCES claiming them to be his.:faint
I'm not so naive to think that some preachers won't 'borrow' sermons but to claim my experiences as your own is lying. THAT I have a BIG problem with. :thwak
Why? It wasn't the first time it had happened. I generally don't get too worked up about it.
There was a time that I got a little cranked off about it, however. A certain Evangelist (one you might know even) was traveling and preaching several of my messages. He was also a member of a forum type situation. Not knowing I was on the forum someone called his hand at preaching my messages... He told them that I got the notes from HIM! (I had not, to set the record straight: He asked me for MY notes and I didn't give them to him.) He went on to talk about how much better 'his' version was than mine, anyway... :preach Then someone who knew me and recognized my messages sent me some of his messages from a revival... sure enough, practically word for word and even USED MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCES claiming them to be his.:faint
I'm not so naive to think that some preachers won't 'borrow' sermons but to claim my experiences as your own is lying. THAT I have a BIG problem with. :thwak
now that is totally over the line. having said that, don't you think that most preachers borrow thoughts and little sayings from each other?
BTW, you ought be flattered that so many preachers are trying to imulate you :thumbsup
PaPaDon
04-24-2007, 05:15 AM
What's the difference in having a Baptist preacher speak at a convention of PAW Oneness ministers than having a Trinitarian speak at a UPCI General Conference? Has that ever happened? Of course! And not only did this Trinitarian speak at a UPCI General Conference, the UPCI even went further by publishing his entire speech in a later edition of the Pentecostal Herald. Want to know the name of the Trinitarian whom I am referring? His name is George W. Bush....
So where is the reasoning for the discussion against something the PAW ministerial leadership is about to do (or has done in times past), than what the ministerial leadership of the UPCI has already done as well! Oh! I know... but he is the President of the US of A, and that is the difference. Well, pardon me! First, and foremost, George W. Bush is a mortal, not unlike the rest of us. And, the govermental position of leadership which he holds bears absolutely NO relevance to the mission of God's church upon the earth (IMO)! Do we find it recorded in the book of Acts that the apostles invited the Roman or Jewish govermental leaders to speak at their meetings? I don't think so!
I just don't get it (of course, I'm just dumb - but I acknowlege it, whereas most people either don't, or won't!).
Lets exert our best efforts to remove the log from our own eyes before we undertake to remove the splinter from the eyes of others.
Steve Epley
04-24-2007, 07:05 AM
MH in his golden years told about Elder Verbal Bean's experiences as his own. When Elder Bean confronted him he said well it happened to you and it built faith so what's the difference?
Did W preach or teach on doctrinal issues?
Old Paths
04-24-2007, 08:28 AM
Anyone preaching my messages ain't praying enough.
:D
JTULLOCK
04-24-2007, 08:30 AM
i don't think anyone will have a problem staying saved.. but the whole point is why would an "oneness" org have trinnies preaching at their national conference???
Should it matter who preaches at our conferences? I think no. At GC maybe it should be mostly UPC people, but the fact is that there are "trinnies" that can out preach us. They may not have the same doctrine beliefs but that should not matter.
You can say they preach lies and paganism(bro. price), but the fact is that some of these men and women are great speakers. Some of them are experts in certain fields. Just because they are not oneness does not mean that have nothing good to say. They can put a fresh spin on something or open up a story in a way that you or others have not seen and it touch lives. Do not be so quick to discount other ministers because of their doctrinal stance.
Should it matter who preaches at our conferences? I think no. God! Don't EVER let this guy pastor me!! PLEASE!!!! :begging
Old Paths
04-24-2007, 08:42 AM
Don't you just love those "great speakers" that "can out preach us".
Now here was a "great speaker"!
What an "expert" in demostrations.
Zedekiah didn't have the "same doctrine beliefs", but he was so good at putting "a fresh spin".
Too bad for Ahab that he listen to him. :(
1 Kings 22:11-12
11 And Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah made him horns of iron: and he said, Thus saith the LORD, With these shalt thou push the Syrians, until thou have consumed them.
12 And all the prophets prophesied so, saying, Go up to Ramoth-gilead, and prosper: for the LORD shall deliver it into the king's hand.
KJV
Don't you just love those "great speakers" that "can out preach us".
Now here was a "great speaker"!
What an "expert" in demostrations.
Zedekiah didn't have the "same doctrine beliefs", but he was so good at putting "a fresh spin".
Too bad for Ahab that he listen to him. :(
1 Kings 22:11-12
11 And Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah made him horns of iron: and he said, Thus saith the LORD, With these shalt thou push the Syrians, until thou have consumed them.
12 And all the prophets prophesied so, saying, Go up to Ramoth-gilead, and prosper: for the LORD shall deliver it into the king's hand.
KJVAmen, OP!!
1 Kings 22
20 And the LORD said, ‘Who will persuade Ahab to go up, that he may fall at Ramoth Gilead?’ So one spoke in this manner, and another spoke in that manner.
21 Then a spirit came forward and stood before the LORD, and said, ‘I will persuade him.’
22 The LORD said to him, ‘In what way?’ So he said, ‘I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ And the LORD said, ‘You shall persuade him, and also prevail. Go out and do so.’
I don't want a "lying spirit" in any pulpit I'm sitting under!! There are plenty of them who'll volunteer and who the Lord will ALLOW to do their deceitful work in the minds of them that love not the truth.
JTULLOCK
04-24-2007, 08:54 AM
God! Don't EVER let this guy pastor me!! PLEASE!!!! :begging
You again?? God! Please do not let me pastor this man. Look there are preachers in the UPC that will tell you that if they are weak in an area or know of an expert in a certain are that they will bring them in and have them teach the church.
I can say that it should not matter too much because at a time in my life I could not breakthrough a funk I was in. I bought dvd's, cd's, and tapes of "oneness" preaching and nothing happened. One day I was watching a preacher on tv and the message he preached set me free from what was holding me down. Now if I had the same attitude as some of you all here then it is possible I could still be bound up. But the way I was fasting and praying for a release from what was binding me, but until that message I was still bound. I think Sherri said it best. Take the good in and put the bad out.
Like that one video I posted from the SBC. That would preach at many UPC events, but take out the parts you don't agree with and take the parts you do agree with. You can not honetly say you believe every UPC preacher you hear? With them you take out the part you do not agree with and hold the parts you do. Why would that be any different it were someone not in the "oneness" movement?
God! Please do not let me pastor this man. Cool! We've got a deal!! :thumbsup
JTULLOCK
04-24-2007, 10:11 AM
Cool! We've got a deal!! :thumbsup
Same page, sametime. Finally
Steadfast
04-24-2007, 10:37 AM
now that is totally over the line. having said that, don't you think that most preachers borrow thoughts and little sayings from each other?
BTW, you ought be flattered that so many preachers are trying to imulate you :thumbsup
Thad,
Emulation would have been one thing. Being a lazy opportunist was quite another thing. I think all of us are inspired by someone's else's preaching or teaching and can glean thoughts from it. However, at the very least one should put his own thoughts, emotions and experiences into their ministry.
I have NEVER taken a man's message and tried to preach it. A thought? A point of inspiration that I could build on? A specific phrase that could be expanded into a needed message? Sure. But I've never taken a man's message and preached it specifically.
It wasn't emulation. It was a spiritually defunct, lazy, opportunist doing what they do best; saying or doing anything they can do - with literally no restrictions - to climb a ladder of carnal affirmation and popularity.
Did W preach or teach on doctrinal issues?
OGIA,
Obviously he did not. As for the whole 'Baptist at PAW' / 'trinitarian at GC' my opinion is simple. It is an absolute insult to the message, the ministry and the constituency of an organization to tell them, "We are so proud of our organization that we're bringing in people that (a) don't believe like us, (b) despise our core beliefs and (c) propagate inferior disciplines of a holy life.
By bringing them in we're carelessly (a) telling our people that what we say we're willing to die for isn't really that important, (b) telling our preachers that even though they have been faithful to the cause we're bringing in someone who is unfaithful to truth and giving them a platform and a voice over you and (c) confusing the next generation by minimizing truth and promoting unholy lifestyles."
The Bishops who walked out last year were justified and right. I wish those precious PAW men that still cherish truth would rise back up and take the reigns back from the Hollywood hyped preachers and Pope perceived liberals who are taking a once great organization down the tubes! I hope they walk out in an even larger manner this year. Let the compromised officials who invited them stay there and listen to their deceptive tripe. The righteous - especially at their own National Convocation - shouldn't have to be subjected to that.
As for the Commander in Chief? He was NOT there in a capacity of admonition, direction or ministry. It was a matter, in my opinion, of giving honor where honor is due... a scriptural mandate. The 'grass roots' level probably are strengthened to know that the most powerful man in the world knows something about their organization and see it as a 'recognition' instead of a 'ministry'.
On the other hand, putting false doctrines up to preach, especially at the meeting to promote their existence, makes about as much sense as using rusty tools to perform a delicate surgery.
Makes me want to hurl.
JTULLOCK
04-24-2007, 10:47 AM
[SIZE="4"][COLOR="Blue"]OGIA,
Obviously he did not. As for the whole 'Baptist at PAW' / 'trinitarian at GC' my opinion is simple. It is an absolute insult to the message, the ministry and the constituency of an organization to tell them, "We are so proud of our organization that we're bringing in people that (a) don't believe like us, (b) despise our core beliefs and (c) propagate inferior disciplines of a holy life.
By bringing them in we're carelessly (a) telling our people that what we say we're willing to die for isn't really that important, (b) telling our preachers that even though they have been faithful to the cause we're bringing in someone who is unfaithful to truth and giving them a platform and a voice over you and (c) confusing the next generation by minimizing truth and promoting unholy lifestyles."[/QUOTE]
You think it is insulting the message? The real message has nothing to do with oneness. Act2:38 is not the message it is our response to the message. The real message is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus. Almost every Christian believes in the death, burial and resurrestion. That is the whole message. So to say it insults the message is wrong. I know you are tying to say though. You see it as an insult to the doctrine and the ministers in the organization. I do not agree with you in that reguard, but I see your argument.
I would not and do not take offense if there is another person from another organization preaching at "our" conference. God does not only give words to the oneness crowds, but to all men. He will and is pouring out His spirit on all flesh. We can all learn from each other.
Theresa
04-24-2007, 10:50 AM
makes about as much sense as using rusty tools to perform a delicate surgery.
Makes me want to hurl.
and having a copier repair man do the job...
ChicagoPastor
04-24-2007, 11:03 AM
I'm not saying that this makes it all better....
I met a PAW Pastor in Michigan who told me that Paul Morton had been baptized in Jesus name and Spirit filled.
I know there's rumors like that about a lot of people, but it did come from a PAW pastor.
ChicagoPastor
04-24-2007, 11:05 AM
Not enough good preachers in the PAW? BTW do they have any white preachers from other Oneness organizations or Trinitarian preaching?
I remeber back in '95 or '96 when Dan Willis dropped his license with the UPC and joined the PAW's and most everyone in the Illinois district said he went Charasmatic.
JTULLOCK
04-24-2007, 11:50 AM
I remeber back in '95 or '96 when Dan Willis dropped his license with the UPC and joined the PAW's and most everyone in the Illinois district said he went Charasmatic.
I think it is so very funny that when ministers turn in their license that suddenly people think of them as traders or backsliders. It is like if you are not "in the way" then you are not "in the way." I tell people that think the are "in the way" to get out of the way because they are in my way.
But there is a HUGE life outside the UPCI. There is life in the UPCI too, but do not be fooled into thinking there is not life out or after the UPCI.
* * * NEWS FLASH * * *
i was told Yesterday that the PAW put together a Team and this team was instructed to go around to the various churches that they believed was going Off Doctrinally. this team was sent to striaghten them out
**ALSO**
The brochere for the PAW convention is up.
To verify what i have posted about the speakers that are speaking at PAW convention, you can go to their website - go to "events". you have to wait about 15 seconds for it to down load.
JTULLOCK
04-24-2007, 03:01 PM
* * * NEWS FLASH * * *
i was told Yesterday that the PAW put together a Team and this team was instructed to go around to the various churches that they believed was going Off Doctrinally. this team was sent to striaghten them out
A team to straighten people out? Wow that is definately a conservative pentecostal way of getting it done.:2cents
A team to straighten people out? Wow that is definately a conservative pentecostal way of getting it done.:2cents
the churches that were getting weak on the doctrine so I was told
JTULLOCK
04-24-2007, 03:17 PM
the churches that were getting weak on the doctrine so I was told
That is possible. But the fact of the matter can be that sometime we change to methods on how to do things and some people think you are changing the message.
There is a thin line between the spirit and flesh sometimes. That is why people do strange things and fall on their face or stand on the mountain. Sometimes the :grumpy and old people that have been in the way for years think that things always have to be the same and does the same. Not so. Acts 2:38 has not changed, but the way to get it out there has. :tvhappy
JTULLOCK
04-24-2007, 03:24 PM
I will say that some of these men that are not in the PAW but speaking at the PAW events may be looking to conform more the PAW than the PAW looking to conform to other denominations. We have to fellowship with people that have like faith. People tend to say "faith" as like in the same doctrine, but I am not sure that is altogether what is being said.
It is very, very possible that people like Bishop Noel Jones that preach at other denominal events have made these ministers think harder about the doctrine. Who are we to point fingers. I remember hearing a guy preach once that was in the AoG and God had given him the oneness revelation, but still he was in the AoG. God puts people where He wants them and it doesn't matter what we think. We think we know all sometimes, but God knows everything all the time.:preach
I will say that some of these men that are not in the PAW but speaking at the PAW events may be looking to conform more the PAW than the PAW looking to conform to other denominations. We have to fellowship with people that have like faith. People tend to say "faith" as like in the same doctrine, but I am not sure that is altogether what is being said.
It is very, very possible that people like Bishop Noel Jones that preach at other denominal events have made these ministers think harder about the doctrine. Who are we to point fingers. I remember hearing a guy preach once that was in the AoG and God had given him the oneness revelation, but still he was in the AoG. God puts people where He wants them and it doesn't matter what we think. We think we know all sometimes, but God knows everything all the time.:preach
so you think they are going to win them to the PAW or change their doctrine ??
some say that jake's influence has changed some of the Big names
Bishop1
04-24-2007, 11:01 PM
surely Haywood didn't die that long ago- i don't believe it Epley.
I know a lady who said she got the holy ghost in his church Christ temple in Indianapolis.
Thadelupis:
Elde Epley Is RIGHT On Track -
Pastor # 1
Bishop G T Haywood,
Pastor and Founder of Christ Temple
430 West Fall Creek Parkway,
Indianapolis
Indiana,
died
of a rare heart disease
at 10:40 AM,
Sunday
April 12
1931
at the age of 50 -
Pastor # 2
Bishop Robert Franklin Tobin
Left his Duties As Pastor of
Apostolic Faith Church,
57 Rena St,
Grand Rapids, Michigan
to Assume the Pastorate Of
Christ Temple,
430 West Fall Creek Parkway,
Indianapolis,
Indiana
at the ripe old age of 34
and pastored there for 16 years
Bishop R F Tobin
died
April 7,
1947
at the age of 50 -
Pastor # 3
Bishop Morris E Golder
left his position as Pastor of
Bethesda Apostolic Temple,
St Louis
Missouri
To Assume Pastorate Of
Christ Temple
430 West Fall Creek Parkway
Indianapolis
Indiana
at the Ripe Old Age of 35 -
Bishop1
:beatdeadhorse
Steadfast
04-24-2007, 11:35 PM
Thadelupis:
Elde Epley Is RIGHT On Track -
Pastor # 1
Bishop G T Haywood,
Pastor and Founder of Christ Temple
430 West Fall Creek Parkway,
Indianapolis
Indiana,
died
of a rare heart disease
at 10:40 AM,
Sunday
April 12
1931
at the age of 50 -
Pastor # 2
Bishop Robert Franklin Tobin
Left his Duties As Pastor of
Apostolic Faith Church,
57 Rena St,
Grand Rapids, Michigan
to Assume the Pastorate Of
Christ Temple,
430 West Fall Creek Parkway,
Indianapolis,
Indiana
at the ripe old age of 34
and pastored there for 16 years
Bishop R F Tobin
died
April 7,
1947
at the age of 50 -
Pastor # 3
Bishop Morris E Golder
left his position as Pastor of
Bethesda Apostolic Temple,
St Louis
Missouri
To Assume Pastorate Of
Christ Temple
430 West Fall Creek Parkway
Indianapolis
Indiana
at the Ripe Old Age of 35 -
Bishop1
:beatdeadhorse
Bishop1,
He's right about a lot of other stuff too... but those things aren't generally as well received as his knowledge of history. :hypercoffee
Thadelupis:
Elde Epley Is RIGHT On Track -
Pastor # 1
Bishop G T Haywood,
Pastor and Founder of Christ Temple
430 West Fall Creek Parkway,
Indianapolis
Indiana,
died
of a rare heart disease
at 10:40 AM,
Sunday
April 12
1931
at the age of 50 -
Pastor # 2
Bishop Robert Franklin Tobin
Left his Duties As Pastor of
Apostolic Faith Church,
57 Rena St,
Grand Rapids, Michigan
to Assume the Pastorate Of
Christ Temple,
430 West Fall Creek Parkway,
Indianapolis,
Indiana
at the ripe old age of 34
and pastored there for 16 years
Bishop R F Tobin
died
April 7,
1947
at the age of 50 -
Pastor # 3
Bishop Morris E Golder
left his position as Pastor of
Bethesda Apostolic Temple,
St Louis
Missouri
To Assume Pastorate Of
Christ Temple
430 West Fall Creek Parkway
Indianapolis
Indiana
at the Ripe Old Age of 35 -
Bishop1
:beatdeadhorse
okay, sounds to me like you have your facts. how do you know so much about the PAW ?
and are you sure that golder took over CT ? I thought he had his own church. the reason is, he had a big thriving church while CT has gone waaay down
Steadfast
04-25-2007, 12:30 AM
okay, sounds to me like you have your facts. how do you know so much about the PAW ?
and are you sure that golder took over CT ? I thought he had his own church. the reason is, he had a big thriving church while CT has gone waaay down
Thad,
I'm an Indiana boy and used to run the PAW Churches in the Indy area. Bishop M. E. Golder did, in fact, serve Christ Temple before ending up at Grace Church Apostolic.
Ironically, there is a white man who pastors at Grace now and they say he can preach just like Golder used to. Don't know the name, however. Can't many people preach like Golder... that's a fact!
Bishop1
04-25-2007, 12:39 AM
okay, sounds to me like you have your facts. how do you know so much about the PAW ?
and are you sure that golder took over CT ? I thought he had his own church. the reason is, he had a big thriving church while CT has gone waaay down
Bishop Golder pastored Christ Temple
for over 5 Years and he started Grace Apostolic Church
on November 22,1953
Bishop1
:beatdeadhorse
Fireside
04-25-2007, 06:04 AM
Why shouldn't trinitarians preach at Oneness meetings?
Simple.
Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Jhn 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Jhn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
If a man has not experienced the New Birth, which is obedience to Acts 2:38, he hasn't even seen, much less entered the Kingdom of God.
I don't care how good he can speak on whatever topic, there is a line drawn between us and him that no amount of talent or knowledge can bridge.
We have a totally different perspective and paradigm, because we have entered the Kingdom, and he hasn't.
These guys that have trinitarians preach under the guise of "take the good and throw out the bad" always end up sowing the seeds of compromise and confusion in their people.
If you have the kind of revelation of Oneness that I received, you could never put a trinitarian in your pulpit, period. It is unthinkable.
chseeads
04-25-2007, 06:13 AM
Thad,
I'm an Indiana boy and used to run the PAW Churches in the Indy area. Bishop M. E. Golder did, in fact, serve Christ Temple before ending up at Grace Church Apostolic.
Ironically, there is a white man who pastors at Grace now and they say he can preach just like Golder used to. Don't know the name, however. Can't many people preach like Golder... that's a fact!
Larry Hunt is his name.
Steve Epley
04-25-2007, 06:17 AM
okay, sounds to me like you have your facts. how do you know so much about the PAW ?
and are you sure that golder took over CT ? I thought he had his own church. the reason is, he had a big thriving church while CT has gone waaay down
There was a moral charge against Elder Golder however is was never proven he left and started Grace Apostolic Church which grew into the largest Apostolic Church in the city. Elder Willie Lee then took pastorate of Christ Temple if I am not mistaken. During his tenure the mother church left the PAW for a season. Golder had the church in St. Louis that James Johnson now pastors.
Brother Price
04-25-2007, 06:27 AM
Why shouldn't trinitarians preach at Oneness meetings?
Simple.
Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Jhn 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Jhn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
If a man has not experienced the New Birth, which is obedience to Acts 2:38, he hasn't even seen, much less entered the Kingdom of God.
I don't care how good he can speak on whatever topic, there is a line drawn between us and him that no amount of talent or knowledge can bridge.
We have a totally different perspective and paradigm, because we have entered the Kingdom, and he hasn't.
These guys that have trinitarians preach under the guise of "take the good and throw out the bad" always end up sowing the seeds of compromise and confusion in their people.
If you have the kind of revelation of Oneness that I received, you could never put a trinitarian in your pulpit, period. It is unthinkable.
Amen Elder! That'll preach right there! Good word!
Steve Epley
04-25-2007, 06:30 AM
Larry Hunt is his name.
How is my neighbor doing??????????????????????????????? I still oxe you a visit don't give up on me. I am going to surprize you one Saturday night.
chseeads
04-25-2007, 07:09 AM
I'm doing alright I guess.
Steve Epley
04-25-2007, 07:14 AM
I'm doing alright I guess.
Married yet?????????????????????:donuts
chseeads
04-25-2007, 07:22 AM
Hahaha.....that's scheduled to happen shortly after pigs fly.
JTULLOCK
04-25-2007, 07:49 AM
so you think they are going to win them to the PAW or change their doctrine ??
some say that jake's influence has changed some of the Big names
Yeah I think that Jakes' has influenced some Big names. I do not think that the PAW is changing the doctrine. I think that there is a place in the community of the church that we can fellowship together. Not waffle on doctrine, but we do not have to debate the doctrine everytime we are around non-oneness people.
Back to Jakes, I believe that there are people that have seen his success outside of a major organization. He is a part of a oneness organization called Higher Grounds something. But what most people have seen is that there is an anointing and blessing outside oganizations. Not that you can not have success in organizations, but you are dead in the water if you leave. Because people see him on TBN and other they assume that he is no longer "preaching truth." That is false. I have many of his dvd series and he is right on with what he preaches.
We will see what the future holds for different organizations. I think that there will be a great revival as promised in the Word. I believe that this will happen in and out of an organization. There are alot of people out there that may not choose a church in an organization with strict standards so those people might go to the ones that have left, but some will not. God will make a market for both streams.
Steve Epley
04-25-2007, 07:50 AM
Yeah I think that Jakes' has influenced some Big names. I do not think that the PAW is changing the doctrine. I think that there is a place in the community of the church that we can fellowship together. Not waffle on doctrine, but we do not have to debate the doctrine everytime we are around non-oneness people.
Back to Jakes, I believe that there are people that have seen his success outside of a major organization. He is a part of a oneness organization called Higher Grounds something. But what most people have seen is that there is an anointing and blessing outside oganizations. Not that you can not have success in organizations, but you are dead in the water if you leave. Because people see him on TBN and other they assume that he is no longer "preaching truth." That is false. I have many of his dvd series and he is right on with what he preaches.
We will see what the future holds for different organizations. I think that there will be a great revival as promised in the Word. I believe that this will happen in and out of an organization. There are alot of people out there that may not choose a church in an organization with strict standards so those people might go to the ones that have left, but some will not. God will make a market for both streams.
PHOOEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PHOOEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:killinme
I was thinking of a response to ol' JT, elder, but your's just takes the cake!! :donuts
JTULLOCK
04-25-2007, 07:54 AM
PHOOEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Phooey on youie!!!!!!!!!!
How is that Phooey? Look at people that go to the churches outside the organizations. They are in revival too and people are changing their lives and changing the world. I see it first had as I have been in a church that left the UPC and have a great revival with the HG moving. Still preaching Acts 2:38 and changing lives. go figure.
Steve Epley
04-25-2007, 07:56 AM
Phooey on youie!!!!!!!!!!
How is that Phooey? Look at people that go to the churches outside the organizations. They are in revival too and people are changing their lives and changing the world. I see it first had as I have been in a church that left the UPC and have a great revival with the HG moving. Still preaching Acts 2:38 and changing lives. go figure.
I think you mistake talent for annointing. Jakes is NOT annointed to compromize and this is NOT about organizations but truth. The UPC or PAW is NOT the church. If numbers prove you are right head to Mecca!!!!!!!!!! I hear they are having some blow up services over there.
Brother Price
04-25-2007, 07:58 AM
Yeah I think that Jakes' has influenced some Big names. I do not think that the PAW is changing the doctrine. I think that there is a place in the community of the church that we can fellowship together. Not waffle on doctrine, but we do not have to debate the doctrine everytime we are around non-oneness people.
Back to Jakes, I believe that there are people that have seen his success outside of a major organization. He is a part of a oneness organization called Higher Grounds something. But what most people have seen is that there is an anointing and blessing outside oganizations. Not that you can not have success in organizations, but you are dead in the water if you leave. Because people see him on TBN and other they assume that he is no longer "preaching truth." That is false. I have many of his dvd series and he is right on with what he preaches.
We will see what the future holds for different organizations. I think that there will be a great revival as promised in the Word. I believe that this will happen in and out of an organization. There are alot of people out there that may not choose a church in an organization with strict standards so those people might go to the ones that have left, but some will not. God will make a market for both streams.
In the words of another great man of God I know.....
HOGWASH!!!
Steve Epley
04-25-2007, 08:03 AM
In the words of another great man of God I know.....
HOGWASH!!!
Mega Dittos a quote from the golden microphone.
JTULLOCK
04-25-2007, 08:08 AM
In the words of another great man of God I know.....
HOGWASH!!!
You guys are just jealous it seems. I mean come on. You think that someone is compromising. That is your thoughts based on you think. I see differently. Look I have seen it from both sides of the fence. I have no problems with you believing what you do. I would never tell you that you do not believe truth even though I do not agree with you. You all see that when people go to these church because God draws them and when they were deep in an organization the church was not as large then you chalk it up to compromising. You all are in the shallow end of the pool here. The church I am attending now has no TV or radio programs and they are running in the area of 650. Who would not want that? You all get too caught up in the dress code UPCI preaches and not enough of the revival the Bible talks about.
If you all think that the great revival in the last days are only going to happen to the oneness churches that preach things so tight you can not breath air then you are sadly sadly mistaken. Sometime the grass is not greener on the other side, but you know what sometimes it is. It is the same grass but this yard is not fenced in. Now I do not agree with living like you want to, drinking partying, etc. But if you are having a real prayer life and not just a patty-cake prayer time then God is going to speak. I would rather hear God speak to me than to listen to some people that all they want is to control people.
Steve Epley
04-25-2007, 08:10 AM
You guys are just jealous it seems. I mean come on. You think that someone is compromising. That is your thoughts based on you think. I see differently. Look I have seen it from both sides of the fence. I have no problems with you believing what you do. I would never tell you that you do not believe truth even though I do not agree with you. You all see that when people go to these church because God draws them and when they were deep in an organization the church was not as large then you chalk it up to compromising. You all are in the shallow end of the pool here. The church I am attending now has no TV or radio programs and they are running in the area of 650. Who would not want that? You all get too caught up in the dress code UPCI preaches and not enough of the revival the Bible talks about.
If you all think that the great revival in the last days are only going to happen to the oneness churches that preach things so tight you can not breath air then you are sadly sadly mistaken. Sometime the grass is not greener on the other side, but you know what sometimes it is. It is the same grass but this yard is not fenced in. Now I do not agree with living like you want to, drinking partying, etc. But if you are having a real prayer life and not just a patty-cake prayer time then God is going to speak. I would rather hear God speak to me than to listen to some people that all they want is to control people.
The revival in the last days the BIBLE talks about is found where in the Bible?
JTULLOCK
04-25-2007, 09:12 AM
The revival in the last days the BIBLE talks about is found where in the Bible?
Acts 2:17
And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams.
Seems that is talking about a great revival. It is happening now and will continue to happen. The Bible speaks....
Steve Epley
04-25-2007, 09:13 AM
Acts 2:17
And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams.
Seems that is talking about a great revival. It is happening now and will continue to happen. The Bible speaks....
Did you read Peter said This is That you might be behind?
Whole Hearted
04-25-2007, 09:23 AM
I think you mistake talent for annointing. Jakes is NOT annointed to compromize and this is NOT about organizations but truth. The UPC or PAW is NOT the church. If numbers prove you are right head to Mecca!!!!!!!!!! I hear they are having some blow up services over there.
:thumbsup :thumbsup
JTULLOCK
04-25-2007, 09:39 AM
Did you read Peter said This is That you might be behind?
Yeah I know what you are saying and no I did not forget. This is that and Acts does not have an Amen at the end so the revival is still going. And the UPC and other cons organizations are not the only one reaping in the revival. There you go Epley.
Oh and if I go to Mecca I would get on Tv and preach the Message of Jesus and the response of what Acts 2:38 says and I might have a revival. It could work. But the one thing you are forgetting in your statement is that Islam is not a Bible teaching and niether is tv. So what is next?
JTULLOCK
04-25-2007, 09:59 AM
I think you mistake talent for annointing. Jakes is NOT annointed to compromize and this is NOT about organizations but truth. The UPC or PAW is NOT the church. If numbers prove you are right head to Mecca!!!!!!!!!! I hear they are having some blow up services over there.
Come on man. You think that Jakes has compromised because God has opened doors for him to go places? You are so closed minded. Did you know Jakes before he started being on tv alot? How do you know he "compromised" anything? You have no proof, do you?
God has brought Jakes to the forefront and people like you think that if someone is in the position of Jakes then he must have compromised or something. The thing you are not considering is that may be God put him in the place he is at. The gifts and callings are with out repentance. So he is anointed reguardless of what you say. I think it is so so so funny that if someone does not measure up to what you think and what you feel then that means they are wrong. That is a bad attitude to have Epley. Have you considered that you are wrong?
Whole Hearted
04-25-2007, 10:19 AM
Jake's is a compromising hireling. God did not bring him to the forefront, people with itching ears did.
JTULLOCK
04-25-2007, 10:24 AM
Jake's is a compromising hireling. God did not bring him to the forefront, people with itching ears did.
People with itching ears need a oinment from the doctors. Hunger in people and God's mving brought Jakes to the front. To "assume" otherwise is a mistake.
Steve Epley
04-25-2007, 10:28 AM
Come on man. You think that Jakes has compromised because God has opened doors for him to go places? You are so closed minded. Did you know Jakes before he started being on tv alot? How do you know he "compromised" anything? You have no proof, do you?
God has brought Jakes to the forefront and people like you think that if someone is in the position of Jakes then he must have compromised or something. The thing you are not considering is that may be God put him in the place he is at. The gifts and callings are with out repentance. So he is anointed reguardless of what you say. I think it is so so so funny that if someone does not measure up to what you think and what you feel then that means they are wrong. That is a bad attitude to have Epley. Have you considered that you are wrong?
I called the Potter's House myself and asked how they baptized the lady did not know and forwarded me to the head of the baptismal committee and she did not know. Does that sound like an Apostolic church to you? He is a compromiser and yes I know when he baptizes he does it in Jesus Name I am not deying that. He is not annointed but is talented. He sold out.
JTULLOCK
04-25-2007, 10:39 AM
I called the Potter's House myself and asked how they baptized the lady did not know and forwarded me to the head of the baptismal committee and she did not know. Does that sound like an Apostolic church to you? He is a compromiser and yes I know when he baptizes he does it in Jesus Name I am not deying that. He is not annointed but is talented. He sold out.
How are you sitting there and telling me that he is not anointed? He is anointed. It is up to God to anoint, not Epley. IF it were then only 10 people would be anointed. Apostolic church? Yes. But because someone did not answer a question for you doesn't mean anything accept the person you talked needs to be talked to. Do not judge a book by its cover. You can not resend an anointing. Neither can the anointed person. They choose not to opperate under the anointing, but they can not give back or give up the anointing. Jakes was anointed by God and that is final.
You are right on one account. He is sold out. He is sold out to Jesus and reaching people and making a difference, not to a system.
Steve Epley
04-25-2007, 10:42 AM
How are you sitting there and telling me that he is not anointed? He is anointed. It is up to God to anoint, not Epley. IF it were then only 10 people would be anointed. Apostolic church? Yes. But because someone did not answer a question for you doesn't mean anything accept the person you talked needs to be talked to. Do not judge a book by its cover. You can not resend an anointing. Neither can the anointed person. They choose not to opperate under the anointing, but they can not give back or give up the anointing. Jakes was anointed by God and that is final.
You are right on one account. He is sold out. He is sold out to Jesus and reaching people and making a difference, not to a system.
The man is teaching NOTHING if the baptismal committee don't know how they baptize. The annointing in Acts taught the truth. Jakes is talented NOT annointed. He sold out NOT to Jesus but to money-fame.
Whole Hearted
04-25-2007, 10:43 AM
People with itching ears need a oinment from the doctors. Hunger in people and God's mving brought Jakes to the front. To "assume" otherwise is a mistake.
II Tim. 4:3&4
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after THEIR OWN LUST shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
and they shall turn away their ears from the TRUTH, and shall be turned unto fables.
We are in that time. People with itching ears have put Jakes where he is. those who don't want sound doctrine.
Whole Hearted
04-25-2007, 10:46 AM
I called the Potter's House myself and asked how they baptized the lady did not know and forwarded me to the head of the baptismal committee and she did not know. Does that sound like an Apostolic church to you? He is a compromiser and yes I know when he baptizes he does it in Jesus Name I am not deying that. He is not annointed but is talented. He sold out.
AMEN Brother
JTULLOCK
04-25-2007, 10:48 AM
II Tim. 4:3&4
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after THEIR OWN LUST shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
and they shall turn away their ears from the TRUTH, and shall be turned unto fables.
We are in that time. People with itching ears have put Jakes where he is. those who don't want sound doctrine.
Did you forget that 1Timothy and 2 Timothy were done after the Freedom chapter in Galations 5? You are lumping tv into sound doctrine. Very interesting.
Whole Hearted
04-25-2007, 10:52 AM
Did you forget that 1Timothy and 2 Timothy were done after the Freedom chapter in Galations 5? You are lumping tv into sound doctrine. Very interesting.
There are many things that jakes doesn't preach. TV is just one of them. Jakes is no more Aposotlic and the Jws.
JTULLOCK
04-25-2007, 10:54 AM
There are many things that jakes doesn't preach. TV is just one of them. Jakes is no more Aposotlic and the Jws.
Why are you all soooooo insistant on adding to the Bible by preaching things that are not in there? Like Tv.
Whole Hearted
04-25-2007, 11:04 AM
Why are you all soooooo insistant on adding to the Bible by preaching things that are not in there? Like Tv.
Everything I preach is bible friend.
Is anyone else confused here?
How are you sitting there and telling me that he is not anointed?
It is up to God to anoint, not Epley.
He is anointed.
JT, did God speak to you about TD being anointed? Maybe you're the chairman of the anointing committe now? :covereyes
JTULLOCK
04-25-2007, 11:21 AM
Is anyone else confused here?
JT, did God speak to you about TD being anointed? Maybe you're the chairman of the anointing committe now? :covereyes
No I am not the chair I am the CEO. You are being childish here. These signs shall follow them that believe...proof is in the pudding. Pudding is this stuff that is made to be a dessert. It is liquid that has gelled into this sweet treat. I was letting you know what pudding is. . .That is childish....kinda like what you are doing.
Sorry, JT. Just calling them like I see them.
You told the elder he didn't decide who was anointed; that only God did. But, you stated that Jakes IS anointed.
So what I gathered is that YOU can decide who is anointed, but an elder who's probably been around twice your lifetime can't?
JTULLOCK
04-25-2007, 11:37 AM
Sorry, JT. Just calling them like I see them.
You told the elder he didn't decide who was anointed; that only God did. But, you stated that Jakes IS anointed.
So what I gathered is that YOU can decide who is anointed, but an elder who's probably been around twice your lifetime can't?
I said that Jakes in anointed because at some point God not JT, Epley or You anointed him. Nobody can take that away. The reason I say he is anointed is the signs that follow him and his ministry. NOT the people but the signs. If you ever get a chance to watch a dvd of the services, not the edited for tv version then you would see the sign to confirm.
ChicagoPastor
04-25-2007, 04:45 PM
I called the Potter's House myself and asked how they baptized the lady did not know and forwarded me to the head of the baptismal committee and she did not know. Does that sound like an Apostolic church to you? He is a compromiser and yes I know when he baptizes he does it in Jesus Name I am not deying that. He is not annointed but is talented. He sold out.
Elder,
I too have called Potterhouse and they did tell me that the ONLY way they baptize is in Jesus name.
I spoke with the head of the baptismal committee who is also a Pastor at Pottershouse. Without ANY hesitation he quoted Acts 2:38 and said in Jesus name.
Because of what you wrote, I called Pottershouse again, and once again they confirmed Acts 2:38.
I even asked, well if I have a family member that wants to be baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost instead of in Jesus name, would you all do that? I was given a resounding NO and a 3 minute Bible study on why baptism should be done in Jesus name.
Steve Epley
04-25-2007, 04:50 PM
Elder,
I too have called Potterhouse and they did tell me that the ONLY way they baptize is in Jesus name.
I spoke with the head of the baptismal committee who is also a Pastor at Pottershouse. Without ANY hesitation he quoted Acts 2:38 and said in Jesus name.
Because of what you wrote, I called Pottershouse again, and once again they confirmed Acts 2:38.
I even asked, well if I have a family member that wants to be baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost instead of in Jesus name, would you all do that? I was given a resounding NO and a 3 minute Bible study on why baptism should be done in Jesus name.
I am glad they got that straighten out but the day I called it was NOT that way. The receptionist did not know and the head of the baptismal committee did not know.
Whole Hearted
04-25-2007, 08:48 PM
I said that Jakes in anointed because at some point God not JT, Epley or You anointed him. Nobody can take that away. The reason I say he is anointed is the signs that follow him and his ministry. NOT the people but the signs. If you ever get a chance to watch a dvd of the services, not the edited for tv version then you would see the sign to confirm.
The Antichrist is going to do miracles too, but they won't be of God.
vrblackwell
04-25-2007, 09:01 PM
I have met several people that attend the Potters house. One is on staff there. I asked each of them how Jake's baptized. Each one said "in the name of Jesus".
Steve Epley
04-25-2007, 09:11 PM
I have met several people that attend the Potters house. One is on staff there. I asked each of them how Jake's baptized. Each one said "in the name of Jesus".
Most of the folks who were on the FCF remembers the episode myself and another poster who doubted me I guess both called I got farther than the other did but neither of us got an answer so maybe they are doing better? However I may call again and see myself.
JTULLOCK
04-26-2007, 07:01 AM
The Antichrist is going to do miracles too, but they won't be of God.
You can not lump Jakes in to being the or like the antichrist. The antichrist will not do things out of an anointing such as Jakes does. People are making way too much out of it. I have heard him in person and he is dynamic. Like I have said before I have many of his dvd sets and he is certainly a pentecostal man and by the signs given in them if is hard to deny that he is anointed.
Steve Epley
04-26-2007, 07:11 AM
You can not lump Jakes in to being the or like the antichrist. The antichrist will not do things out of an anointing such as Jakes does. People are making way too much out of it. I have heard him in person and he is dynamic. Like I have said before I have many of his dvd sets and he is certainly a pentecostal man and by the signs given in them if is hard to deny that he is anointed.
What are those signs?????????
The same operated by Benny Hinn??? Leroy Jenkins?? Don Stewart????
Brother Price
04-26-2007, 07:11 AM
Anointed or talented? That is the question. No true Apostolic would ever welcome a trinitarian onto his pulpit. Jakes does.
JTULLOCK
04-26-2007, 07:17 AM
Anointed or talented? That is the question. No true Apostolic would ever welcome a trinitarian onto his pulpit. Jakes does.
Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.
Unless they are preaching the trinitarian doctrine while in a oneness pulpit then what is the problem?
Steve Epley
04-26-2007, 07:19 AM
Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.
Unless they are preaching the trinitarian doctrine while in a oneness pulpit then what is the problem?
Maybe Reba will come and speak for you???????????????????
JTULLOCK
04-26-2007, 07:21 AM
What are those signs?????????
The same operated by Benny Hinn??? Leroy Jenkins?? Don Stewart????
Look it is very, very childish to say that God never anointed them. They may not do things the way you think it should be done. That does not make them unanointed. God anoint Saul even though he tried to be a murderer. He anoint Samson when he told the source of his anointing and slept with Delilah. Which after that did you forget he brought the house down?
Come on guys. God anoints whom ever He wants. Some people may abuse the anointing and you can think what you want to, but you are not there in the prayer closet and the quite times with God. You do not know what God is telling them and where He is leading them. To say otherwise is unwise.
Steve Epley
04-26-2007, 07:25 AM
Look it is very, very childish to say that God never anointed them. They may not do things the way you think it should be done. That does not make them unanointed. God anoint Saul even though he tried to be a murderer. He anoint Samson when he told the source of his anointing and slept with Delilah. Which after that did you forget he brought the house down?
Come on guys. God anoints whom ever He wants. Some people may abuse the anointing and you can think what you want to, but you are not there in the prayer closet and the quite times with God. You do not know what God is telling them and where He is leading them. To say otherwise is unwise.
So God is just annointing everyone eh????????????????????????????????????
JTULLOCK
04-26-2007, 07:33 AM
So God is just annointing everyone eh????????????????????????????????????
God can and will anoint whom He wants and your opinion, bro price opinion and my opinion does not matter at all. But I can tell you from seeing him and watching him a long long time that he is anointed. Did you know lastyear on Pentecost Sunday in New york Bro Klinedinst and TD Jakes did the services at a UPC church. Everyone there was UPC except some visitors and the whole time he preached "It's all in the Name." So people agree with me and people in the UPC nonetheless.
CHECK MATE!
Whole Hearted
04-26-2007, 10:58 AM
God doesn't anoint false doctrine or false prophet or false teachers.
JTULLOCK
04-26-2007, 11:29 AM
God doesn't anoint false doctrine or false prophet or false teachers.
I will let those false doctrine teachers know when I meet one. As for Jakes...jealousy is a tough thing to fight I see.
BoredOutOfMyMind
04-26-2007, 12:17 PM
God doesn't anoint false doctrine or false prophet or false teachers.
There is an annointing, but not a full inheritance aka blessing for all.
Saul was among the school of Prophets and he WAS The Lord's Annointed.
:preach
JTULLOCK
04-26-2007, 12:50 PM
There is an annointing, but not a full inheritance aka blessing for all.
the topic is the anointing not inheritance....stick to topic
Saul was among the school of Prophets and he WAS The Lord's Annointed. :preach
captain obvious has arrived. thanks for announcing your arrival
TRFrance
11-10-2007, 01:22 AM
If you can't listen to a preacher who doesn't believe exactly like you and still remain saved, then it's pretty sad. You can learn something from those who aren't oneness; just take the good and throw out the bad. I can see if this were a new convert or something, but a mature pastor who won't listen to someone else??? Ridiculous!
Its not simply a question of "listening to someone else". Its a question of not wanting to send the wrong message by putting him in your pulpit. If a pastor invites someone to preach in his pulpit, that by itself is a tacit endorsement of his (the guest speaker's) ministry.
So if the Pastor is preaching that Oneness/Acts 2:38 are the only correct godhead/salvation doctrines, (and that anything other than those are false doctrine), what kind of message does it send to have someone preach to your flock who openly advocates a different message?
It would be compromise, plain and simple. There's already too much of that going on in Apostolic circles.
Pure water + mud = muddy water. And Lord knows we have too many "apostolics" already muddying the waters.
nwlife
11-10-2007, 01:38 AM
Its not simply a question of "listening to someone else". Its a question of not wanting to send the wrong message by putting him in your pulpit. If a pastor invites someone to preach in his pulpit, that by itself is a tacit endorsement of his (the guest speaker's) ministry.
So if the Pastor is preaching that Oneness/Acts 2:38 are the only correct godhead/salvation doctrines, (and that anything other than those are false doctrine), what kind of message does it send to have someone preach to your flock who openly advocates a different message?
It would be compromise, plain and simple. There's already too much of that going on in Apostolic circles.
Pure water + mud = muddy water. And Lord knows we have too many "apostolics" already muddying the waters.
Just reverse this scenario and you have some of the trinitarians saying the same thing.
Hoovie
11-10-2007, 05:04 AM
Just from what I know I have a few friends who are actually PAW. In fact, one is a preacher.
Just speaking from the ones I know they arent die hard oneness. I dont understand why they would allow a trinitarian to preach to there people.
I dont believe the Oneness message is preached strong in the PAW at least not to services I have attended there.
Is a Oneness or hell message a "strong" message or a weak message?
Timmy
11-10-2007, 07:56 AM
They couldn't find any Twoness preachers?
TRFrance
11-10-2007, 07:22 PM
Just reverse this scenario and you have some of the trinitarians saying the same thing.
OK ... not sure exactly what your point is, nwlife.
My point here is pretty simple. If you hold that a key doctrinal position is true, then your choice of who you bring into your pulpit should reflect that, rather than compromising your convictions. And if you hold that a particular position (like Trinity/baptism into titles) is false doctrine, then you shouldn't bring a false doctrine preacher to preach to your people.
Do you disagree with that? If so, Please tell us why.
And "reversing the scenario", as you put it...if a Trinitarian pastor was to refuse to allow a Oneness preacher in his pulpit, then, even though I disagree with his doctrine, I would still respect the fact that he is being true to his convictions. (No inconsistency there at all, in my book.)
So, based on your response to my post, what are you really saying? ...that we should allow Trinitarian preachers to preach in Oneness pulpits? And if so, why?.. would it be because, as you say, if we "reverse this scenario... you have some of the trinitarians saying the same thing" ? Why would it even matter what 'some of the trinitarians' would say? I'm not sure why thats even a relevant issue.
Fact is, either we're going to be Apostolic or we're not. Either Oneness/Acts 2:38 matters, or it really doesn't. Either we hold fast to what we know to be the truth, and resist compromise, or we don't.
Frankly, I'm not going to be a part of any church that brings a Trinitarian to the pulpit to preach to me. I don't know if you're ok with that kind of thing, but I certainly am not.
RevDWW
11-10-2007, 07:43 PM
I don't know who the speakers are or what they preach, but I do have a CD of Morton and Choir with the lead singer speaking in tongues...might even be Paul himself. But don't many African-American Baptist churches believe in baptizing in Jesus and Name and receiving the Holy Ghost?
nwlife
11-11-2007, 12:35 AM
TRFrance,
All I was saying is many of the trinitarians will say the same thing, but just from their perspective...say no oneness in their pulpits. what else would it be by saying "in reverse"?
TRFrance
11-11-2007, 01:58 PM
TRFrance,
All I was saying is many of the trinitarians will say the same thing, but just from their perspective...say no oneness in their pulpits. what else would it be by saying "in reverse"?
Well, that's understood. It seemed as if there was some other point you were making, or to trying to make, with the previous comment.
Sure, they say that about Oneness preachers, and they have for generations.
We've long known that. Frankly, I don't think we should be all that concerned about their opinion of us, although clearly there are quite a few Apostolics who are.
You'll never see a oneness preacher invited to an AG church to preach. Apostolics are the ones who seem to want to compromise with Trinitarians, in order to win their favor. You generally don't see Trinitarians caring too much about trying to appease our side or meet with our approval as much as you Apostolics try to do the same with the Trinitarians. Just my 2 cents.
nwlife
11-14-2007, 12:43 AM
Well, that's understood. It seemed as if there was some other point you were making, or to trying to make, with the previous comment.
Sure, they say that about Oneness preachers, and they have for generations.
We've long known that. Frankly, I don't think we should be all that concerned about their opinion of us, although clearly there are quite a few Apostolics who are.
You'll never see a oneness preacher invited to an AG church to preach. Apostolics are the ones who seem to want to compromise with Trinitarians, in order to win their favor. You generally don't see Trinitarians caring too much about trying to appease our side or meet with our approval as much as you Apostolics try to do the same with the Trinitarians. Just my 2 cents.
Hmmm....I have gotten to minister quite a few times in trinitarian churches, I have standing invitation at 2 churches right now. As for the AOG, there is always a first...I got too many relatives in the AOG churches including a pastor, so who knows!!!
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