Eulogy of a Virtuous Woman

[warrior]

What do you think of this? Is this a true depiction of the Biblical idea of a virtuous woman?

Who can find a virtuous woman? For her price is far above rubies.
(Proverbs 31:10)

After much sorrow, painful meditations and many prayers, I undertake an unpleasant task: a eulogy on the death of a virtuous woman.

The task is made more difficult and saddening by the knowledge that there are so few of her kind left. She was different from most women in so many ways. Of course, that is true of all who seek to please God: few enter into the strait and narrow way (Matthew 7:13).

Since she is in so many points different from most others, to write in her praise has its risks. The majority who read this may be offended. I may anger some by praising qualities that many feel are out-dated and even demeaning. But being compelled by God and her memory to tell the whole truth, I write on.

What can be said of her? She was among the rare and declining sort of woman to whom the "traditional role" was an honorable vocation. She was scandalized when a younger woman complained of being "just a housewife," for she knew by whatever name her occupation was God-given, highly responsible, and immensely important. She held her head high in any company.

Sometimes others would speak down to her, saying she "didn’t have to go to work" like they did. She would agree with quick wit: "How true. My work comes to me every day."

And truly, she labored abundantly in her home (Titus 2:5). To her with a heart in heaven (Matthew 19:21) and a mind on what is truly important work at home was not just a set of exasperating chores that lasted from dawn until dusk. She "guided" her house (1 Timothy 4:15), a vocation she approached with perseverance, calm wisdom and quiet speech. She knew her life was more than mopping floors, cooking meals and making beds. She also had to train her children, teach the younger women (Titus 2:4) and labor in the gospel in any other ways that she could (Philippians 4:3). Nevertheless; she tended these "homely" jobs with full care and enthusiasm as well.

While many seemed to think that keeping the house in order was hopeless ("cleanliness is next to impossible"), she was assured that what God had commanded, He would give strength and wisdom to perform.

She loved her children. She could never understand the modern notion that children mainly just got in the way of better career opportunities. She could imagine no greater and fulfilling occupation than raising up children for God. Only the ignorant might call her unambitious. Her goal for her children, the salvation of their eternal souls, was the greatest ambition that any parent could have.

She epitomized the word hospitality (Romans 12:13). Everyone felt welcome in her house. However, she never had the finest of dining room furniture, no ostentatious china, no silverware that was truly silver (not even plated). But, under her guiding hand, her home was always a comfortable and inviting place to be. Few guests were so shallow as to disdain her lack of finery.

Though her appearance was pleasant, she was never anything of a "beauty", at least, not in the way the world sees it. Her appearance was modest in every way (1 Timothy 2:9). She would never use fine clothes, sparkling jewelry or makeup to draw undo attention to herself. But her outward appearance always reflected the beauty of character that all who knew her saw clearly. The "ornament of a meek and quiet spirit" (1 Peter 3:4) was to her the best jewelry and makeup she could possibly wear.

She was highly loved for she was genuinely kind (1 Corinthians 13:4). She seemed always to find a kind word about most everybody. Failing that, when the evil deeds of others were brought to light, she would only remind her children, "our works will follow us" (Romans 2:6; Revelation 14:13). Even so, she never stooped to gossip (1 Timothy 5:13), a common practice of men and women these days.

She sought a place at her husband’s side that brought honor to him (Proverbs 31:11, 12, 23; 1 Corinthians 11:3-5). Most today consider this to be degrading and cheapening. Her very existence was an affront to those determined to have "equality" in the home and on the job. But her heart was elsewhere. She put into practice the words of Jesus, "whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant" (Matthew 20:26, NIV). Like all good Christians, she sought opportunities to serve, not rule.

So she honored her husband and was not embarrassed to obey him (Titus 2:5). Her conversation around him or about him was circumspect. She did not take part in the "husband-bashing" that is so common today.

Not surprisingly, this honor she gave so freely came back to herself. Her children and her husband held her in the highest esteem (Proverbs 31:28). Especially her husband appreciated her and treated her with the highest respect (1 Peter 3:7). Her behavior made his obedience to this command of God easy.

Over the years her quiet example rang out loud in the ears and minds of her husband and children: a strong example that demanded imitation.Pastor James Groce


There is no value that can be attached to such as she. We rejoice that she has gone to be with Jesus, but we are deeply saddened to say good-bye. She will be sorely missed. Will there be any to take her place?

Give her the reward she has earned, and let her works bring her praise at the city gate. (Proverbs 31:31)

[DAII]

She would never use fine clothes, sparkling jewelry or makeup to draw undo attention to herself. But her outward appearance always reflected the beauty of character that all who knew her saw clearly. The "ornament of a meek and quiet spirit" (1 Peter 3:4) was to her the best jewelry and makeup she could possibly wear?

She didn't?

Proverbs 31:22 She maketh herself coverings of tapestry; her clothing is silk and purple.

[DAII]

Despite taking care of her home responsibilites as part of caring for her first priority, her family ...

She is also very entrepreneurial and ambitious...

She maketh fine linen, and selleth it; and delivereth girdles unto the merchant.

She seeketh wool, and flax, and worketh willingly with her hands.
She is like the merchants' ships; she bringeth her food from afar.


She considereth a field, and buyeth it: with the fruit of her hands she planteth a vineyard

The entire context of Proverbs 31 is sorely missing from many of the good ideas expressed by Warrior's posting.

[warrior]

DAII, I didn't write this. I copied and pasted it from somewhere else. I thought the source was attached but it wasn't.

I have my own personal thoughts about this as well. .

[DAII]

Looks like it is James Groce ....

[DAII]

What do you think of this? Is this a true depiction of the Biblical idea of a virtuous woman?

Who can find a virtuous woman? For her price is far above rubies.
(Proverbs 31:10)

After much sorrow, painful meditations and many prayers, I undertake an unpleasant task: a eulogy on the death of a virtuous woman.

The task is made more difficult and saddening by the knowledge that there are so few of her kind left. She was different from most women in so many ways. Of course, that is true of all who seek to please God: few enter into the strait and narrow way (Matthew 7:13).

Since she is in so many points different from most others, to write in her praise has its risks. The majority who read this may be offended. I may anger some by praising qualities that many feel are out-dated and even demeaning. But being compelled by God and her memory to tell the whole truth, I write on.

What can be said of her? She was among the rare and declining sort of woman to whom the "traditional role" was an honorable vocation. She was scandalized when a younger woman complained of being "just a housewife," for she knew by whatever name her occupation was God-given, highly responsible, and immensely important. She held her head high in any company.

Sometimes others would speak down to her, saying she "didn’t have to go to work" like they did. She would agree with quick wit: "How true. My work comes to me every day."

And truly, she labored abundantly in her home (Titus 2:5). To her with a heart in heaven (Matthew 19:21) and a mind on what is truly important work at home was not just a set of exasperating chores that lasted from dawn until dusk. She "guided" her house (1 Timothy 4:15), a vocation she approached with perseverance, calm wisdom and quiet speech. She knew her life was more than mopping floors, cooking meals and making beds. She also had to train her children, teach the younger women (Titus 2:4) and labor in the gospel in any other ways that she could (Philippians 4:3). Nevertheless; she tended these "homely" jobs with full care and enthusiasm as well.

While many seemed to think that keeping the house in order was hopeless ("cleanliness is next to impossible"), she was assured that what God had commanded, He would give strength and wisdom to perform.

She loved her children. She could never understand the modern notion that children mainly just got in the way of better career opportunities. She could imagine no greater and fulfilling occupation than raising up children for God. Only the ignorant might call her unambitious. Her goal for her children, the salvation of their eternal souls, was the greatest ambition that any parent could have.

She epitomized the word hospitality (Romans 12:13). Everyone felt welcome in her house. However, she never had the finest of dining room furniture, no ostentatious china, no silverware that was truly silver (not even plated). But, under her guiding hand, her home was always a comfortable and inviting place to be. Few guests were so shallow as to disdain her lack of finery.

Though her appearance was pleasant, she was never anything of a "beauty", at least, not in the way the world sees it. Her appearance was modest in every way (1 Timothy 2:9). She would never use fine clothes, sparkling jewelry or makeup to draw undo attention to herself. But her outward appearance always reflected the beauty of character that all who knew her saw clearly. The "ornament of a meek and quiet spirit" (1 Peter 3:4) was to her the best jewelry and makeup she could possibly wear.

She was highly loved for she was genuinely kind (1 Corinthians 13:4). She seemed always to find a kind word about most everybody. Failing that, when the evil deeds of others were brought to light, she would only remind her children, "our works will follow us" (Romans 2:6; Revelation 14:13). Even so, she never stooped to gossip (1 Timothy 5:13), a common practice of men and women these days.

She sought a place at her husband’s side that brought honor to him (Proverbs 31:11, 12, 23; 1 Corinthians 11:3-5). Most today consider this to be degrading and cheapening. Her very existence was an affront to those determined to have "equality" in the home and on the job. But her heart was elsewhere. She put into practice the words of Jesus, "whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant" (Matthew 20:26, NIV). Like all good Christians, she sought opportunities to serve, not rule.

So she honored her husband and was not embarrassed to obey him (Titus 2:5). Her conversation around him or about him was circumspect. She did not take part in the "husband-bashing" that is so common today.

Not surprisingly, this honor she gave so freely came back to herself. Her children and her husband held her in the highest esteem (Proverbs 31:28). Especially her husband appreciated her and treated her with the highest respect (1 Peter 3:7). Her behavior made his obedience to this command of God easy.

Over the years her quiet example rang out loud in the ears and minds of her husband and children: a strong example that demanded imitation.Pastor James Groce

There is no value that can be attached to such as she. We rejoice that she has gone to be with Jesus, but we are deeply saddened to say good-bye. She will be sorely missed. Will there be any to take her place?

Give her the reward she has earned, and let her works bring her praise at the city gate. (Proverbs 31:31)

Looks like it was attributed to James Groce.

[Trouvere]

I love to read the writings of Pastor James Groce. He is a fine person. We don't all have to agree with everything all the time.

Why does everything hinge on bringing up petty things like standards etc. I am sure he meant something entirely different in his perspective.

[warrior]

I never mentioned standards, sis. Dana.

[DAII]

Neither did I.

[Trouvere]

I never mentioned standards, sis. Dana.

I know you did not. It was the cheap shot pointed out about what was in the article about what the woman that would or would not wear that gave me this impression.
I hate when a really good idea is circumvented.


I believe possibly that Brother Groce may have written this at someones passing or for Mothers day because it sounds like a memorial.

[DAII]

The problem I see with Groce's eisegesis here, Warrior is that he does let the context of Proverbs 31 guide his reasonings.

As many of the traditional crowd do in their bible interpretations is start with a main text and then prooftext exisiting notions and ideas to fit their assertions.

Rather than unraveling the text.

[DAII]

I know you did not. It was the cheap shot pointed out about what was in the article about what the woman that would or would not wear that gave me this impression.
I hate when a really good idea is circumvented.


I believe possibly that Brother Groce may have written this at someones passing or for Mothers day because it sounds like a memorial.

Cheap shot, Trouvere?

The question plainly asked by Warrior asked if this was an accurate depiction of a virtuous woman :
What do you think of this? Is this a true depiction of the Biblical idea of a virtuous woman?

[Trouvere]

I still think this is memorial stuff. I would love him to come on and explain some of his thoughts. He does post here.I am sure he is very busy though.

[Trouvere]

Cheap shot, Trouvere?

The question plainly asked by Warrior asked if this was an accurate depiction of a virtuous woman :
What do you think of this? Is this a true depiction of the Biblical idea of a virtuous woman?

I still think its more than just an expository but a memorial written with someone or something in mind. Dan will you admit you focus on standards a lot?
I did not grow up Apostolic so standards aren't an issue with me. I see more to what Brother Groce has written than something to be picked apart.

[DAII]

I still think its more than just an expository but a memorial written with someone or something in mind. Dan will you admit you focus on standards a lot?
I did not grow up Apostolic so standards aren't an issue with me. I see more to what Brother Groce has written than something to be picked apart.

Maybe a memorial to the pioneer woman of the Plains?

:bigbaby

[rgcraig]

Maybe a memorial to the pioneer woman of the Plains?

:bigbaby

Maybe a memorial to a woman that didn't work outside the home.

[warrior]

When something is posted on the internet, it is always subject to a closer look. After seeing this, I wanted to discuss it because I am in a stage of trying to become the virtuous woman that God has called women to be but hoping to accomplish this without losing my identity to something I don't like or recognize anymore. I want to be the virtuous woman with style. :)

[DAII]

Maybe a memorial to a woman that didn't work outside the home.

True ... the 1950's Leave It to Beaver mom ... with her new home appliances and faithful mop?

[rgcraig]

When something is posted on the internet, it is always subject to a closer look. After seeing this, I wanted to discuss it because I am in a stage of trying to become the virtuous woman that God has called women to be but hoping to accomplish this without losing my identity to something I don't like or recognize anymore. I want to be the virtuous woman with style. :)

Why would you lose your identity or not recognize yourself?

Very interesting. Does this fit into the Apostolic Identity that is being talked about?

[DAII]

Groce brought standards into the discussion in his "memorial", Dana.

Though her appearance was pleasant, she was never anything of a "beauty", at least, not in the way the world sees it. Her appearance was modest in every way (1 Timothy 2:9). She would never use fine clothes, sparkling jewelry or makeup to draw undo attention to herself. But her outward appearance always reflected the beauty of character that all who knew her saw clearly. The "ornament of a meek and quiet spirit" (1 Peter 3:4) was to her the best jewelry and makeup she could possibly wear.

The implication one is not virtuous if one "fixes" herself up or even wears fine clothes.

You are blaming the messengers ... T.

[warrior]

Why would you lose your identity or not recognize yourself?

Very interesting. Does this fit into the Apostolic Identity that is being talked about?


I like the best of both worlds. I love the idea of traveling, being a mother, working outside of the home, looking beautiful inside and out, being creative, hanging with my friends, meeting the needs of a husband as well as mine being met when I reach that point, and being saved ALL AT THE SAME TIME.

However, as I read this man's opinion of the virtuous woman I could only see a frumpy woman who is surrounded by kids and spends her day doing things that only pleases her family. Who takes care of her? Who seeks to meet her needs? That is what I want to avoid.

[Trouvere]

Groce brought standards into the discussion in his "memorial", Diana.



The implication one is not virtuous is one "fixes" herself up or even where fine clothes.

You are blaming the messengers ... T.

haha.....Brother.......Its Dana not Diana but I like the reference to the Princess.
She was pretty and thankfully the Prince rescued her and she did not have to work.lol...same here.....

I am a writer. I love Bro.Groce's stuff. I don't always agree but coming from his back ground and world view and those he is trying to minister to I think he is excellent. He may not appeal to everyone but I like his stuff. I think his reference here is more to an Esther type of persona.



Sister Renda,
Some day your Prince will come. I am praying. Then you can spend all your time baby sitting new grand babies.
lv Sis.Dana

[DAII]

I like the best of both worlds. I love the idea of traveling, being a mother, working outside of the home, looking beautiful inside and out, being creative, hanging with my friends, meeting the needs of a husband as well as mine being met when I reach that point, and being saved ALL AT THE SAME TIME.

However, as I read this man's opinion of the virtuous woman I could only see a frumpy woman who is surrounded by kids and spends her day doing things that only pleases her family. Who takes care of her? Who seeks to meet her needs? That is what I want to avoid.

I think God meets the needs and takes care of both the male and female ...

I have learned that going into a relationship with the expectation of having one's needs met ... is frustrating and never truly attainable ....

We are called to fulfill our roles and excel in our duties while esteeming our loved ones as more than ourselves and allowing God to fill our voids.

If both spouses do this ... putting Him and spouse first... needs are met without the frustration of "who takes care of me?".

I do agree that the virtuous woman is a lot more multi-faceted and dynamic than Groce depicts.

[warrior]

I think God meets the needs and takes care of both the male and female ...

I have learned that going into a relationship with the expectation of having one's needs met ... is frustrating and never truly attainable ....

We are called to fulfill our roles and excel in our duties while esteeming our loved ones as more than ourselves and allowing God to fill our voids.

If both spouses do this ... putting Him first ... needs are met.

I do agree that the virtuous woman is a lot more multi-faceted and dynamic than Groce depicts.


I can agree to an extent.

[DAII]

I can agree to an extent.

I think the command to love our wives as Christ has loved the Church ... is an awesome and daunting task ... that if obeyed ... husbands would meet their spouses " other needs".

The most challenging command for a father and husband in my opinon.

IT TAKES SERIOUS WORK, COMMITMENT, SELFLESSNESS ... but if we rely on Him as our obedience ... all things are possible.

[Trouvere]

I like the best of both worlds. I love the idea of traveling, being a mother, working outside of the home, looking beautiful inside and out, being creative, hanging with my friends, meeting the needs of a husband as well as mine being met when I reach that point, and being saved ALL AT THE SAME TIME.

However, as I read this man's opinion of the virtuous woman I could only see a frumpy woman who is surrounded by kids and spends her day doing things that only pleases her family. Who takes care of her? Who seeks to meet her needs? That is what I want to avoid.

I suppose I don't see the picture of a frumpy woman there Sister. I have the life that travels(missionary), mother(6), looks beautiful( I am told daily x 100 by spouse), creative(writer,aritist,musician), hangs out with friends(conferences,
book club, church, shopping, visits), ministers to a husband and he does to me and am saved all at the same time.
Sometimes I just like to spend time at home (like today for instance) and write or research or just type fun stuff at forums. I enjoy making meatloaf or going over homework with the children. I enjoy teaching the our nightly Bible Study. I love to travel the earth and teach the Bible to churches and bless people but I also think the best thing I do is mothering. I don't want them to remember me for my pretty clothes or public attention (because I get a lot of attention.) I want them to remember when I let them put their baby feet on my guitar and learned to hum along and sing.
I suppose its a values issue. We cannot expect Brother Groce to really take
on all that a Virtuous woman is or feels but possibly he is writing from his
own perspective of his own mama. That is why it sounds so pioneer. He is not
the youngest man on the block. He is though very nice and meant very well by it. I am sure his mama is well up in years or gone on to glory.


The best thing you can be is a Woman after God's own heart then everything else puts itself into perspective. You must be a great person in person or
this sort of subject would not have even appealed to you.

[Trouvere]

I think the command to love our wives as Christ has loved the Church ... is an awesome and daunting task ... that if obeyed ... husbands would meet their spouses " other needs".

The most challenging command for a father and husband in my opinon.

IT TAKES SERIOUS WORK, COMMITMENT, SELFLESSNESS ... but if we rely on Him as our obedience ... all things are possible.

Those are good words Brother. I am quite impressed.

[RandyWayne]

I like the best of both worlds. I love the idea of traveling, being a mother, working outside of the home, looking beautiful inside and out, being creative, hanging with my friends, meeting the needs of a husband as well as mine being met when I reach that point, and being saved ALL AT THE SAME TIME.

However, as I read this man's opinion of the virtuous woman I could only see a frumpy woman who is surrounded by kids and spends her day doing things that only pleases her family. Who takes care of her? Who seeks to meet her needs? That is what I want to avoid.

By all accounts (according to the eulogy) THIS lady is the epitome of virtuous.
http://www.internationalrivers.org/files/images/american_gothic.preview.jpg

I'm still not sure if this is a real eulogy or like one of those "Death of common sense" lists that people keep publishing from time to time.

[warrior]

I suppose I don't see the picture of a frumpy woman there Sister. I have the life that travels(missionary), mother(6), looks beautiful( I am told daily x 100 by spouse), creative(writer,aritist,musician), hangs out with friends(conferences,
book club, church, shopping, visits), ministers to a husband and he does to me and am saved all at the same time.
Sometimes I just like to spend time at home (like today for instance) and write or research or just type fun stuff at forums. I enjoy making meatloaf or going over homework with the children. I enjoy teaching the our nightly Bible Study. I love to travel the earth and teach the Bible to churches and bless people but I also think the best thing I do is mothering. I don't want them to remember me for my pretty clothes or public attention (because I get a lot of attention.) I want them to remember when I let them put their baby feet on my guitar and learned to hum along and sing.
I suppose its a values issue. We cannot expect Brother Groce to really take
on all that a Virtuous woman is or feels but possibly he is writing from his
own perspective of his own mama. That is why it sounds so pioneer. He is not
the youngest man on the block. He is though very nice and meant very well by it. I am sure his mama is well up in years or gone on to glory.


The best thing you can be is a Woman after God's own heart then everything else puts itself into perspective. You must be a great person in person or
this sort of subject would not have even appealed to you.

Sending you a pm.

[RandyWayne]

....
I suppose its a values issue. We cannot expect Brother Groce to really take
on all that a Virtuous woman is or feels but possibly he is writing from his
own perspective of his own mama. That is why it sounds so pioneer. He is not
the youngest man on the block. He is though very nice and meant very well by it. I am sure his mama is well up in years or gone on to glory.
....


This is probably why I was not offended in the least even though I didn't agree with the final interpretations he gave. It is the world view he grew up with.

[MissBrattified]

I don't completely agree with the author's interpretation of the "virtuous woman." We don't get an idea of a plain, "frumpy" woman who lacks finery from Proverbs 31. Nor do we get the picture of a woman who avoids business decisions or doesn't have her own monetary resources. Furthermore, she is so savvy when it comes to business that she makes decisions independent of her husband, and he trusts her to only bring favor to their family name.

Also, I don't know why the author seems to think the virtuous woman isn't beautiful! There IS great validity in the idea that inner beauty will outshine natural beauty, and of course natural beauty fades, leaving only the inward to be seen, over time. However, a passage written about a woman possessing inward beauty doesn't point to a woman who wasn't pretty outwardly, necessarily. The way the comments are written, it makes outward beauty almost seem like a vice, and plainness a virtue.

I DO see a woman who puts God first, tends to her family's needs diligently, is handy with financial matters, and also sees carefully to her own health & appearance.

[Trouvere]

This is probably why I was not offended in the least even though I didn't agree with the final interpretations he gave. It is the world view he grew up with.

You are one smart cookie.

[rgcraig]

This is probably why I was not offended in the least even though I didn't agree with the final interpretations he gave. It is the world view he grew up with.

Exactly, and the audience he was addressing.

[rgcraig]

I think the command to love our wives as Christ has loved the Church ... is an awesome and daunting task ... that if obeyed ... husbands would meet their spouses " other needs".

The most challenging command for a father and husband in my opinon.

IT TAKES SERIOUS WORK, COMMITMENT, SELFLESSNESS ... but if we rely on Him as our obedience ... all things are possible.

Good stuff!

"Wild At Heart" kind of man!

[dizzyde]

Stuff like this is wonderful... to the woman who has been lucky enough to live the "traditional" Christian life. For all others there is an unintended (I hope) guilt trip pushed and a level of depression that goes along with reading it.

As though we have somehow failed, because that is not the way that life has turned out. I realize that we can't always consider/shield every single person that a thought or article or even sermon might touch, but I do think the message that something like this sends to a large portion of women who don't have a lot of control over their situation, is slightly cruel.

Personally, I am pretty tough at this point, it takes a whole lot more than something like this to make me feel like a failure or that I am not "virtuous", but I know a lot of women that would be hurt by it.

[MissBrattified]

I feel that the virtuous woman passage in Proverbs 31 is an ideal, and rarely do you find a "real" person who will live up to everything listed. It's something to personally aspire to, but definitely not something over which you hold another woman's feet to the fire.