Rare Sister Charlotte Testimony - tortured nun

[mfblume]

Remember Sister Charlotte, the ex-nun who testified of being tortured in the Carmelite convent? I helped publish a book about her life story, FROM CONVENT TO PENTECOST, and was privileged to obtain many pics of Charlotte and a series of cassette tapes of her testmony.

Here is the first part of a 5 night series of audio recordings on my youtube channel. VERY RARE recording.

Note her emphasis on JESUS' NAME BAPTISM!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41zJrPKlwg4

[Cindy]

I remember her. She spoke at our church when I was growing up.

[canam]

She spoke at our camp, in a heavily catholic town and the local priest showed up ,he would keep shouting thats not true!.He totaly destroyed a nice felt hat he had been wearing, by twisting it nervously in his hands.They even let him on the platform as i remember, so everyone got a good view of him,while he was beside himself in protest ,amazing to read and how everything she said has been proven true ,then, people would ridicule you for thinking or saying the priests were abusing everyone from altar boys to nuns.

[mfblume]

Others have printed her testimony but censored her Jesus' name baptism and Spirit infilling experiences. They also said she was missing or killed by the catholic church which is not true. It will be interesting to see how this fares on youtube.

[commonsense]

I never saw her in person, but I certainly heard of her. There were lots of stories about her former life.

[Cindy]

I never saw her in person, but I certainly heard of her. There were lots of stories about her former life.

It was horrifying, and fascinating at the same time.

[crakjak]

Remember Sister Charlotte, the ex-nun who testified of being tortured in the Carmelite convent? I helped publish a book about her life story, FROM CONVENT TO PENTECOST, and was privileged to obtain many pics of Charlotte and a series of cassette tapes of her testmony.

Here is the first part of a 5 night series of audio recordings on my youtube channel. VERY RARE recording.

Note her emphasis on JESUS' NAME BAPTISM!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41zJrPKlwg4

I heard Charlotte's story three times when I was growing up, its was a fascinating and yet horrible story of pain and suffering; "under the cloak of religion". She came twice to give her testimony at the church that my father pastored, she kept the youth like myself spellbound.

[Falla39]

This precious lady stayed in our home both times our late father invited her to speak
at the church he pastored in the early 60's. Our church as right across the street from
the catholic church. We were young marrieds. with a child less than a year. The second
time she came, we had our second child. She encouraged us as a young married couple.
Falla39

[Sister Alvear]

Thank you. I had both her tapes and book but over the years loaned them out and you know how that goes....what an awesome lady she was...thank you for putting this here for our forum friends to see and hear.

[Falla39]

If I remember correctly, Bro. T.F. Tenney received the Holy Ghost under the
preaching of Sis. Nila Means/Sis. Charlotte's ministry!

Falla39

[sandie]

Are there still the kind of convents she experienced in operation today?

Talk about something out of the pit. Her story is spell binding and made me think of the nazi consentration camps.

[mfblume]

If I remember correctly, Bro. T.F. Tenney received the Holy Ghost under the
preaching of Sis. Nila Means/Sis. Charlotte's ministry!

Falla39

TF Tenney wrote the foreword in her book, and was a Baptist teenager when he came to her meetings. He became a convert there and then. Not sure if that is when he got the Holy Ghost but he saw Jesus' name and Pentecost.

[mfblume]

Are there still the kind of convents she experienced in operation today?

Talk about something out of the pit. Her story is spell binding and made me think of the nazi consentration camps.

Yes, they are Carmelite convents.

Thank you. I had both her tapes and book but over the years loaned them out and you know how that goes....what an awesome lady she was...thank you for putting this here for our forum friends to see and hear.

This video series is from a set of five tapes!

[Cindy]

Are there still the kind of convents she experienced in operation today?

Talk about something out of the pit. Her story is spell binding and made me think of the nazi consentration camps.

You have to remember that this convent was in a place behind the "Iron Curtain".

[sandie]

Yes, they are Carmelite convents.

Are they open to inspections now? Or do you think the same evils are being done?

[sandie]

You have to remember that this convent was in a place behind the "Iron Curtain".

Oh, so that's what made the difference? Convents in open societies don't do such things?

[mfblume]

You have to remember that this convent was in a place behind the "Iron Curtain".

It was actually in Canada.

[mfblume]

Are they open to inspections now? Or do you think the same evils are being done?

Mexico had them opened and shut down. But anywhere there is a Carmelite convent the potential for these things is there. It very well could vary with more honest leadership in such convents.

[sandie]

Mexico had them opened and shut down. But anywhere there is a Carmelite convent the potential for these things is there. It very well could vary with more honest leadership in such convents.

I hope those responsible were prosecuted.

It's mind boggling that such evil could still persist today. Her story was riveting. I had a hard time understanding some of it on the second video so I've been reading about it.
That those babies were murdered is beyond awful. It would definatley take the work of God to heal Sis. Charlotte from such trauma.

[mfblume]

I hope those responsible were prosecuted.

It's mind boggling that such evil could still persist today. Her story was riveting. I had a hard time understanding some of it on the second video so I've been reading about it.
That those babies were murdered is beyond awful. It would definatley take the work of God to heal Sis. Charlotte from such trauma.

The videos get easier to hear and contain things that the writings in her book and otherwise online did not mention.

[Cindy]

It was actually in Canada.

Really, I thought it was some other place. I was just a kid, but I do remember her.

[mfblume]

Really, I thought it was some other place. I was just a kid, but I do remember her.

Charlotte did not want to identify the location during her testimony. But I believe it was in Quebec City.

[Sister Alvear]

you may have already given the information but I will ask...where can we order a video?

[TGBTG]

Hey Bro Blume,

This is off topic. Anyway, I saw your youtube videos on "Is Israel Gods chosen people?" The idea that Ishmael is anybody who rejects the gospel of Jesus Christ was insightful (not just Arabs, re:Gal 4:26-28).

In the 2nd video in the series, you read Rom 11:25-26, but you did not expand on those verses. I was wondering if you could do that. ("The mystery Paul says we should not be ignorant of.") Thanks.

Always enjoy your inputs...

[mfblume]

you may have already given the information but I will ask...where can we order a video?

The videos are not live action film of her actually giving her testimony, but only a rare audio recording of her five night series with somewhat of a slideshow of a few of her photos that repeat and cycle, which I am putting on Youtube. I can make a video of it for DVD. I wish someone had an old film of her actually preaching that could be made into a dvd.

[mfblume]

Hey Bro Blume,

This is off topic. Anyway, I saw your youtube videos on "Is Israel Gods chosen people?" The idea that Ishmael is anybody who rejects the gospel of Jesus Christ was insightful (not just Arabs, re:Gal 4:26-28).

In the 2nd video in the series, you read Rom 11:25-26, but you did not expand on those verses. I was wondering if you could do that. ("The mystery Paul says we should not be ignorant of.") Thanks.

Always enjoy your inputs...

Thanks for the encouragement and suggestion! Will try to get it done! I just brought up the issue of Ishmael on the "A ? about messianic jews" thread.

[Sister Alvear]

yes, a DVD would be awesome...since we live and work in a Catholic country I have heard many stories...one thing I know we are so blessed to know Jesus as our savior and Lord and not live under the shadow of Rome...

[mfblume]

yes, a DVD would be awesome...since we live and work in a Catholic country I have heard many stories...one thing I know we are so blessed to know Jesus as our savior and Lord and not live under the shadow of Rome...

Amen.

So long as you know it is really only audio with a slideshow for the visual. I will make it up for dvd!

[Sister Alvear]

Thanks to you my friend. I would love it and have patience to show and translate it to our folks here so that they could understand.

[ReformedDave]

Besides her testimony can the allegations be substantiated?

[timlan2057]

Besides her testimony can the allegations be substantiated?

Well, for perspective, here's an interesting link ...

http://web.archive.org/web/20040109041001/http://www.angelfire.com/ms/seanie/forgeries/charlottewells.html

[sandie]

Well, for perspective, here's an interesting link ...

http://web.archive.org/web/20040109041001/http://www.angelfire.com/ms/seanie/forgeries/charlottewells.html

I don't see where this person was able to refute anything.
He's a Catholic with a pro-catholic bias.

What he is saying is this woman had to have been an epic liar.

[Falla39]

A few years ago, I found a small, very old booklet where a lady gives her testimony of
being in a cloistered convent. It sounded much like Sis. Charlotte's testimony.
Bro. Blume is correct. Sis. Charlotte did not want to tell where her testimony happened
and didn't want her book published until after her death.

When Sis. Charlotte came to give her testimony, she would make a telephone call to let
someone know she had arrived. Before she would leave, she also called to let someone
know she was leaving our city. She checked in with someone regularly. Didn't know if it
was headquarters, etc. All kings of rumors got started about what had happened to her,
that she had disappeared after boarding an airplane, etc. We were told that she was in
a nursing facility in California and was safe, so we knew it wasn't true. I believe she died
in that senior care facility.
While giving her testimony she would tell of an experience and then she would say,
"Don't God hate your nasty pride"!

Falla39

[mfblume]

Well, for perspective, here's an interesting link ...

http://web.archive.org/web/20040109041001/http://www.angelfire.com/ms/seanie/forgeries/charlottewells.html

The accusations of Charlotte's story in that website are offkey. She is alleged to have used CHARLOTTE WELLS as a pseudonym, when she never did that at all. Someone started that when they made a website years ago since they did not know her actual name. I actually spoke with the person who started that name, since I saw the website and was correcting the person. They said they picked one out of the air since they did not know her name.

She hid her actual name because her family was deathly opposed to her leaving the catholic church. She did not want her family associated with her testimony.

[Falla39]

I don't see where this person was able to refute anything.
He's a Catholic with a pro-catholic bias.

What he is saying is this woman had to have been an epic liar.

http://web.archive.org/web/200401090...ottewells.html

I guess there is no proof of the numerous cases of abuse to young men
by catholic priests either! Just sayin...!

[Falla39]

If anyone met Sis. Charlotte and had any spiritual discernment at all, they would never perceive her to be a "fake".
I remember hearing that there was a book out about Sis. Charlotte's testimony. Later heard that someone had gotten hold of Sis. Charlotte's testimony tapes and had taken out the part about Jesus Name baptism, oneness teaching, etc. and had used the story to make money from the sale of the books. I knew Sis. Charlotte had written or was writing a book about her testimony, but she told us it would not be made available until AFTER her death. Later the book came out through the Pent. Publ. House. I knew this was the legitimate book. She and Sis. Nila were UPC!

Falla39

[timlan2057]

I don't see where this person was able to refute anything.
He's a Catholic with a pro-catholic bias.

What he is saying is this woman had to have been an epic liar.

Oh, so he's a Catholic so that AUTOMATICALLY makes everything he says invalid?

Why not deal with his material point-by-point?

Interesting reasoning. :ursofunny

Frankly, just one minor point of his I thought interesting, she supposedly went "anonymous" because she was afraid those big, bad Catholics would get her.

But yet, she went public with her "testimony" with open meetings like Billy Graham, in spirit if not in number.

All an assassin would have to do is show up at one of her meetings.

If the Catholic church was as menacing as the Mafia they are portrayed as, with their unlimited funds, the FBI's witness protection program couldn't have helped that woman.

Everything I've read about this "Sister Charlotte" leads me to conclude she was a brass-plated fraud. :thumbsup

[timlan2057]

http://web.archive.org/web/200401090...ottewells.html

I guess there is no proof of the numerous cases of abuse to young men
by catholic priests either! Just sayin...!

No. There is.

That's not the point.

In those cases, we have names, places and facts--just like we have for every fundamentalist minister that can't keep his pants zipped up--which I daresay that, per capita, is as much or more moral failings as abusive catholic priests.

In the good "Sister's" case, we have nothing but assertion and claims that this happened in a convent, the location of which was secret, of course.

Let's see some hard evidence as the proof of this story.

Otherwise, I put it in the same category as Jonathan Urshan's forerunner of the anti-christ who told him some 50 years ago he was about to reveal himself to the world in another year or so. :toofunny

[mfblume]

Oh, so he's a Catholic so that AUTOMATICALLY makes everything he says invalid?

Why not deal with his material point-by-point?

Interesting reasoning. :ursofunny

Frankly, just one minor point of his I thought interesting, she supposedly went "anonymous" because she was afraid those big, bad Catholics would get her.

But yet, she went public with her "testimony" with open meetings like Billy Graham, in spirit if not in number.

All an assassin would have to do is show up at one of her meetings.

If the Catholic church was as menacing as the Mafia they are portrayed as, with their unlimited funds, the FBI's witness protection program couldn't have helped that woman.[/u]

Everything I've read about this "Sister Charlotte" leads me to conclude she was a brass-plated fraud. :thumbsup

Whew. You should read her book. She tells of harrowing ordeals with mobs and threats. She and Sis Nilah had to run for their lives after many meetings, Mobs came down the road with clubs and bats. Nilah told me personally that one meeting saw the host pastor come and grab her and Charlotte, and say, "Come with me." He pulled them away out of the tent meeting and put them in his car, and told them to duck down. A mob of people were coming. This was in Antigonish, Nova Scotia. They took off for their lives!

They stayed one night at Bro. Haney's dad's house, when he was pastor. And the house was out in the country down a long driveway. Bro Haney Sr. came upstairs to get his shotgun. He said there was a strange car showed up at the dirveway, but it ended up leaving.

They had open meetings and had the police out to ensure Charlotte's safety.

You need to get more facts, bro., before you speak about Charlotte's alleged fraud. It was the Lord who kept them safe.

[mfblume]

No. There is.

That's not the point.

In those cases, we have names, places and facts--just like we have for every fundamentalist minister that can't keep his pants zipped up--which I daresay that, per capita, is as much or more moral failings as abusive catholic priests.

In the good "Sister's" case, we have nothing but assertion and claims that this happened in a convent, the location of which was secret, of course.

Let's see some hard evidence as the proof of this story.

Otherwise, I put it in the same category as Jonathan Urshan's forerunner of the anti-christ who told him some 50 years ago he was about to reveal himself to the world in another year or so. :toofunny

It was Quebec, Canada.

[timlan2057]

Whew. You should read her book. She tells of harrowing ordeals with mobs and threats. She and Sis Nilah had to run for their lives after many meetings, Mobs came down the road with clubs and bats. Nilah told me personally that one meeting saw the host pastor come and grab her and Charlotte, and say, "Come with me." He pulled them away out of the tent meeting and put them in his car, and told them to duck down. A mob of people were coming. This was in Antigonish, Nova Scotia. They took off for their lives!

They stayed one night at Bro. Haney's dad's house, when he was pastor. And the house was out in the country down a long driveway. Bro Haney Sr. came upstairs to get his shotgun. He said there was a strange car showed up at the dirveway, but it ended up leaving.

They had open meetings and had the police out to ensure Charlotte's safety.

You need to get more facts, bro., before you speak about Charlotte's alleged fraud. It was the Lord who kept them safe.

Uh, no thanks Mike.

I don't think I need to read the book.

Would there be a mob or two come out to break up the meeting in heavily Catholic Nova Scotia in the 1940s that was trashing the catholic church?

Yep. Not unexpected.

Those attending an open civil rights rally in the south around the same time probably put this "Sister" to shame with the risks for their lives--and necks--they were taking.

So what does that prove but that some folks are ignorant and bigoted and willing to act on it?

Mike, if a guy tells me he has a baseball in his coat pocket and I say "I don't believe it, show me," then he'll pull out the baseball and I'll say I was wrong.

In "Sister" Charlotte's case, I ask to see the baseball, and all you can say is "YOU CAN'T PROVE I DON'T HAVE ONE!" :toofunny

No, let's see some facts, dates, places and verification--which of course, Sister Charlotte failed to provide in her barnstorming.

By the way, I thought it was interesting that a Carmelite order was limited to 20 nuns and "Sister" Charlotte claimed that there werre 180 in her wing alone--didn't you?

Oh well.

Carry on.

[mfblume]

Charlotte would take the women separately at her meetings and bare her back to them, showing them the scars from her lacerations inflicted upon her from flagellation whippings.

Her story is true blue.

[mfblume]

Uh, no thanks Mike.

I don't think I need to read the book.

Would there be a mob or two come out to break up the meeting in heavily Catholic Nova Scotia in the 1940s that was trashing the catholic church?

Yep. Not unexpected.

Those attending an open civil rights rally in the south around the same time probably put this "Sister" to shame with the risks for their lives--and necks--they were taking.

So what does that prove but that some folks are ignorant and bigoted and willing to act on it?

Mike, if a guy tells me he has a baseball in his coat pocket and I say "I don't believe it, show me," then he'll pull out the baseball and I'll say I was wrong.

In "Sister" Charlotte's case, I ask to see the baseball, and all you can say is "YOU CAN'T PROVE I DON'T HAVE ONE!" :toofunny

No, let's see some facts, dates, places and verification--which of course, Sister Charlotte failed to provide in her barnstorming.

By the way, I thought it was interesting that a Carmelite order was limited to 20 nuns and "Sister" Charlotte claimed that there werre 180 in her wing alone--didn't you?

Oh well.

Carry on.

Closed minded. Come on, TL. If you never personally heard her story, then you're not even being fair about it all. You cite some critiques from Catholics and do not even hear her yourself, and you claim she is a fraud. Hello?

I asked Nilah about accusations saying Charlotte was a fraud, and Nilah said that for fourteen years nobody was able to discount anything she said. The reason she left out her family name and refused to speak of the location of the convent is due to what I already stated. Her family was deathly opposed to her having left the catholic church. They disowned her and she simply did not want to associate their name by implication to her.

The reason I mentioned the book is to show the SCORES AND SCORES of times her life was threatened. Granted, as you say, she would get threats whether her story was true or not. But these were two women in the 50's and 60's, who for fourteen years really did not need to have their lives threatened.

Can you prove the number of nuns in a carmelite convent? Sounds like you are taking the critic's words for fact without proof that way, as well.

I found this about the Puebla Carmelite convent: "Former Convent of Santa Monica: Intricate tunnels and hidden passages configure this singular religious precinct, in which dozens of nuns lived in a clandestine manner for more than 70 years to escape the anticlerical laws passed by the government of the Reform (1855-1861). They were discovered in 1934 only and then the Convent was dislodged.".

And this is in a book:

From the prior general Rubeo‟s visit to the Incarnation in 1567, we
learn that there were one hundred forty-four nuns with the black veil
(in solemn profession), that there was only enough food to feed the
community for a third of the year, that the monastery was in debt, that
the maximum number of nuns sustainable would be sixty, and that the
unfinished church was about ready to collapse.

http://researchspace.ukzn.ac.za/xmlui/bitstream/handle/10413/622/Donnell_DL_2009_Thesis.pdf?sequence=1

[mfblume]

Charlotte told of these sorts of stories.

Found this in a newspaper in 2001

Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Newspaper article:


VATICAN ADMITS
PRIESTS RAPED NUNS,
FORCED ABORTIONS

APRIL 10, 2001

ROME - The Vatican acknolwedged yesterday a damning report detailing dozens of cases of Roman Catholic priests and missionaries forcing nuns to have sex with them, including one case in which 29 nuns in a single diocese became pregnant.

In some cases, nuns were raped or forced to have abortions. Others were forced to take the contraceptive pill, said the report, cited in the Italian daily newspaper La Repubblica.

Though most of the problems were in Africa, the report indicated similar incidents have taken place in at least 23 countries, including the United States, Ireland, India and Brazil.

"The problem is known about and restricted to a certain geographical area," said Joaquin Navarr-Valls, the Vatican's chief spokesman.

"The Holy See is dealing with the issue in collaboration with bishops, the Union of Superiors General [grouping of heads of male religious orders] and the International Union of Superiors General [head sof female religious orders]."

The report was presented in February 1995, but the Vatican only admitted its contents yesterday, after La Repubblica published details.

The report was prepared by Maura O'Donohue made specific reference to certain cases, one in which a priest forced a nun to have an abortion, after which she died. He then officiated at her requiem mass.

It said some priests in Africa sought out nuns for sex because they were worried about getting AIDS from prostitutes and saw the nuns as a safe alternative.

In African society, it said, "It is impossible for a woman or an adolescent to refuse a man, espcially an older man and in particular a priest.

"There are cases in which priests make nuns take the pill ... and there was one case of 20 nuns in one religious community being pregnant at the same time."

It said a mother suprerior was continually ignored by the local bishop when she compained that priests in the diocese had made 29 of her nuns pregnant. The bishop eventually relieved her of her duties, the report said.

The article in La Repubblica was based on one published by the National Catholic Reporter, a weekly newspaper based in Kansas City, and Adista, a small Italian religious news agency.
The Vatican had refused to respond to the Reporter's writer.

Sister O'Donohue presented her report to Martinez Cardinal Somalo, head of the Vatican's Congregation for Holy Orders. He ordered a working group from the Congregation to study the problem with Sister O'Donohue.

Since then, the article said, the Vatican has monitored the situation, making sure bishops were aware of the phenomenon, but no direct action had been taken.

Mr. Navarro-Valls, in statement, said, "We are working on two fronts, training of people and finding a solution to individual cases."

"Some negative cannot let us forget the often heroic faith expressed by the large majority of those men and women in religious orders of the clergy."

The National Catholic Reporter said there are no comprehensive statistics on the sexual abuse of nuns, but the "frequency and consistency of the reports .. point to a problem that needs to be addressed."

Rev. Bernardo Cervellera, director of Fides, the news agency of the Vatican's missionary arm, said celibacy has always been a struggle for some priests, but he was surprised at the accounts of sexual abuse.

"I was a missionary for 25 years and I never encountered such a problem," he said. "Instead, I found priests and nuns who gave themselves wholly to people with leprosy, with AIDS ... priests and nuns who live their love for Christ."

National Post, with files from Reuters

[mfblume]

AN EXPOSURE OF CONVENT LIFE

Minnie Scott Morrison - Sister Teresa


This girl was left alone at the age of three – a Protestant child – placed in a Protestant home in Indianapolis – was after wards stolen from there by a Mrs. Trook and hidden in the Good Shepherd Convent, Indianapolis – making her escape from that "House of Death" at the age of 24.

The cruel tortures she suffered there all those long years is almost unbelievable. She was made to kiss the dirty floor again and again – kneel on the hard floor with her arms extended for days at a time – eat soup with bugs in it – put into a dark cold dungeon for three weeks with only bread and water – made to run a high-power machine, making eighty to one hundred dozen overalls a day for a firm in the city – was taken out of convent to be placed in a private home and while on train was kidnapped by a priest at a station where the train stopped. Put into an auto, chloroformed by a priest and taken to the "House of Death" again where she spent over ten years of slavery. Slapped in the face – head beat against the wall time and again – unconscious – buckets of cold water poured on us to bring us to life again. “Mother Superior" one day gave me a bundle of men's underwear to mark size 46 on, after they were all marked she told me to mark them 36. I said, "Mother Alexander, I beg your pardon, you told me to mark them 46." For talking back to her she made me kneel in the middle of the floor for five days.

One day while in the chapel dusting I saw my rings on the infant plaster paris baby Jesus' finger on the altar. I took them Off and put them on my finger and kept them hidden A sister told the mother on me – I was sent to go to her room. she wanted to see me. she took me to the engine room, strapped my right arm to a water pipe. I struggled and tried to get away, but all in vain. The engineer caught hold of me by the waist and held me so I could not get away. The mother took a red hot poker from the furnace, took hold of my left arm and said, "You will never wear rings on these fingers again." She put the red hot poker against my rings and melted them from my fingers, burning my fingers so badly I lost consciousness, and when I came to I was in the mangle room and Mother Irene said to Mother Priscilla, "What happened to her?" and I heard her say, "Nothing, only that she caught her hand in the mangle." I became unconscious again from the awful pain and Mother Irene threw a bucket of cold water on me again.

I nearly lost my life from this terrible suffering. My fingers had to be amputated, as you will see by my photo.

One day I saw Mother Priscilla take Sister Genevieve into the trunk room – a place equipped to flog and beat the girls She fastened both hands with straps, which hung from the ceiling, her feet clamped to the floor, and they beat her till she was unconscious, with sewing machine belts. They unfastened the buckles and let her fall to the floor, then poured a bucket of cold water on her to bring her to, and left her in that awful condition all day. I myself was punished in this way one time.

Sister Rose had been tormented by the priests until her health was ruined. One day while sitting in her chair sewing the bell rang for church. Sister Rose did not move. I went to her to tell her to come. she was dead. The beds we slept on were of boards, with no mattress of any kind. The penances put on us were not fit to be printed.

The day I left I had to sign the oath with my own blood taken from an incision on mv wrist, never to tell what went on in the convent. I had to make oath that my hand was caught in the mangle. The oath was placed on the main altar of the chapel The priest asked me questions in the confessional box I could not put on paper.

One day I went to the priest of Saint Mary's church and asked him to marry us. He told me that if I would stay and be his housekeeper for a week, he would marry us in his parlor – not in the church because my husband was a Protestant – so we were married by a justice of the peace. I now have three boys, a good husband and a happy home. They have tried to steal my babies but God has defeated them.

Affidavit of H. E. Scott, 3534 E. 10th St., Indianapolis, Ind.

I do hereby solemnly affirm that Mrs. Minnie Scott Morrison my sister, was at the House of the Good Shepherd at the time of the accident to her hand, and upon calling to see her at the above place was refused admittance. I was told it was against the rules to talk to anyone confined therein.

Upon going to St. Vincent's Hospital to see her when she was taken there to have her hand amputated, the nurse told me that her hand was hurt in the mangle, but Mrs. Morrison was unconscious at the time, being unable to recognize me, or tell me anything.

(Signed) H. R. Scott.

Subscribed and sworn to before me, this 12th day of November, 1924.

James R. Stewart,
Notary Public

[hawks-cry]

I remember Sister Charlotte. I can't remember when exactly that it was that I heard her in person,...but I also remember us bible college students in the early 60's having deep discussions of her writings. Our cook at the college (Texas Bible College, Houston) in the first few years the college started,...(middle-aged then, but ) had been a young catholic brother studying for the priesthood. I don't recall what monastary he said he was at the time. But his story had many of the same elements as does Sister Charlotte's testimony. His stories griped us with his details of being forced to lie prone on the floor for days without food or water. When allowed to finally eat,..he was made to eat it off the floor like an animal. Sadly,..over the years, there was so much I forgot. He was a wonderful person.

[canam]

Anyone that would call this woman a fraud is to be ignored.unbelievable !

[crakjak]

I remember Sister Charlotte. I can't remember when exactly that it was that I heard her in person,...but I also remember us bible college students in the early 60's having deep discussions of her writings. Our cook at the college (Texas Bible College, Houston) in the first few years the college started,...(middle-aged then, but ) had been a young catholic brother studying for the priesthood. I don't recall what monastary he said he was at the time. But his story had many of the same elements as does Sister Charlotte's testimony. His stories griped us with his details of being forced to lie prone on the floor for days without food or water. When allowed to finally eat,..he was made to eat it off the floor like an animal. Sadly,..over the years, there was so much I forgot. He was a wonderful person.

That was Bro. Murphy, he was a great guys, haven't heard of him for years.

[crakjak]

Uh, no thanks Mike.

I don't think I need to read the book.

Would there be a mob or two come out to break up the meeting in heavily Catholic Nova Scotia in the 1940s that was trashing the catholic church?

Yep. Not unexpected.

Those attending an open civil rights rally in the south around the same time probably put this "Sister" to shame with the risks for their lives--and necks--they were taking.

So what does that prove but that some folks are ignorant and bigoted and willing to act on it?

Mike, if a guy tells me he has a baseball in his coat pocket and I say "I don't believe it, show me," then he'll pull out the baseball and I'll say I was wrong.

In "Sister" Charlotte's case, I ask to see the baseball, and all you can say is "YOU CAN'T PROVE I DON'T HAVE ONE!" :toofunny

No, let's see some facts, dates, places and verification--which of course, Sister Charlotte failed to provide in her barnstorming.

By the way, I thought it was interesting that a Carmelite order was limited to 20 nuns and "Sister" Charlotte claimed that there werre 180 in her wing alone--didn't you?

Oh well.

Carry on.

Tim,

You are way off base on this, the link you posted provided absolutely no refutation of Charlotte's story.

The context was early in the twentieth century, things have changed a bit since that time.

My question would be, "Why did not the RCC prosecute her if they were not afraid of exposure?" She was greatly at risk for slander if she was a "brass plated fraud".

You have no idea of the reasons for her manner of dealing with her past, she was sharing "her story" she was not taking on the RCC.

BTW, there is plenty of evidence of this type of abuse in the RCC, so the case for her truthfulness is highly probable.

[Sister Alvear]

Her story to me rings true of course I DO live and work in a catholic country....I personally have no reason to doubt the things she told...It happened many years ago...For those that think Rome is some lily white flower visit a few countries in the backlands where the word of the priest is law...(unwritten and unofficial of course but try to go against it...)

[sandie]

Oh, so he's a Catholic so that AUTOMATICALLY makes everything he says invalid?

Why not deal with his material point-by-point?

Interesting reasoning. :ursofunny

Frankly, just one minor point of his I thought interesting, she supposedly went "anonymous" because she was afraid those big, bad Catholics would get her.

But yet, she went public with her "testimony" with open meetings like Billy Graham, in spirit if not in number.

All an assassin would have to do is show up at one of her meetings.

If the Catholic church was as menacing as the Mafia they are portrayed as, with their unlimited funds, the FBI's witness protection program couldn't have helped that woman.

Everything I've read about this "Sister Charlotte" leads me to conclude she was a brass-plated fraud. :thumbsup

Guess you're entitled to think this woman was a "brass-plated fraud".
That was my point of the so called rebuttal to her testimony. The person writing it had an obvious pro-catholic bias, so unless you can come up with someone who doesn't have an ax to grind then I'd like to read that point of view. And hopefully with some actual facts that you think are so sorely missing in her testimony.

[Falla39]

Oh, so he's a Catholic so that AUTOMATICALLY makes everything he says invalid?

Why not deal with his material point-by-point?

Interesting reasoning. :ursofunny

Frankly, just one minor point of his I thought interesting, she supposedly went "anonymous" because she was afraid those big, bad Catholics would get her.But yet, she went public with her "testimony" with open meetings like Billy Graham, in spirit if not in number.

All an assassin would have to do is show up at one of her meetings.

If the Catholic church was as menacing as the Mafia they are portrayed as, with their unlimited funds, the FBI's witness protection program couldn't have helped that woman.

Everything I've read about this "Sister Charlotte" leads me to conclude she was a brass-plated fraud. :thumbsup

Who do you suppose the ones that choose to remain anonymous on this
forum are afraid of. Big Bad ??? Many on here went public on Facebook, etc.
Perhaps were anonymous when they first joined the forum but lost their "fear"
after becoming more familiar with others on here.

Falla39

[Sister Alvear]

I believe she was true blue...as I said I live in a country that I could relate certain things...but will not...never under estimate the powers of Rome...

[NotforSale]

A few years ago, I found a small, very old booklet where a lady gives her testimony of
being in a cloistered convent. It sounded much like Sis. Charlotte's testimony.
Bro. Blume is correct. Sis. Charlotte did not want to tell where her testimony happened
and didn't want her book published until after her death.

When Sis. Charlotte came to give her testimony, she would make a telephone call to let
someone know she had arrived. Before she would leave, she also called to let someone
know she was leaving our city. She checked in with someone regularly. Didn't know if it
was headquarters, etc. All kings of rumors got started about what had happened to her,
that she had disappeared after boarding an airplane, etc. We were told that she was in
a nursing facility in California and was safe, so we knew it wasn't true. I believe she died
in that senior care facility.
While giving her testimony she would tell of an experience and then she would say,
"Don't God hate your nasty pride"!

Falla39

My wife and I attended the Church where Sis Charlotte passed away. We both knew her briefly before she died. It was in Napa, California, in Bro Price's Church.

[NotforSale]

Anyone that would call this woman a fraud is to be ignored.unbelievable !

There is no wrong in questioning anyone who makes strong claims of abuse, or, who tells stories with no factual backing.

I don't expect the Church to believe my stories just because I tell them they are true. Everyone needs a check and balance, regardless of who they are.

The longer I've been in the Apostolic Church the more I've seen people say things that were either exaggarated or completely false. We had a Missionary from Africa come to our Church years ago telling us fantastic stories. Years later he was found to be a fraud.

I'm not saying Sis Charlotte's Testimony is false, but there is nothing wrong with verifying the things that she said.

[hawks-cry]

That was Bro. Murphy, he was a great guys, haven't heard of him for years.
..you remember Bro. Murphy!!!!! That's terrific! Yes,..he had a HUGE heart of gold,...and I enjoyed helping him out in the kitchen in those very early years.

[mfblume]

My wife and I attended the Church where Sis Charlotte passed away. We both knew her briefly before she died. It was in Napa, California, in Bro Price's Church.

Do you still live around there? I would very much like to somehow get a photo of her grave to validate that she was not missing or killed by the Catholic church as some people claimed.

[mfblume]

I'm not saying Sis Charlotte's Testimony is false, but there is nothing wrong with verifying the things that she said.

I agree. Nothing wrong with verification.

[mfblume]

Charlotte "laying it down" about Acts 2:38.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wCWmtFL5o8

She claimed God gave her a vision of Acts 2:38 written on a wall, after she had been praying for truth.

[crakjak]

..you remember Bro. Murphy!!!!! That's terrific! Yes,..he had a HUGE heart of gold,...and I enjoyed helping him out in the kitchen in those very early years.

I do, he was a genuine fella!

[canam]

I agree. Nothing wrong with verification.

No argument there, but to call someone you never met ,in all likelyhood,a brass plated fraud, is not to be believed and that person should be ignored as an illogical person.The RCC is the most abusive religious org.in history, physically and mentally, that i have ever heard or read of.

[Sister Alvear]

No argument there, but to call someone you never met ,in all likelyhood,a brass plated fraud, is not to be believed and that person should be ignored as an illogical person.The RCC is the most abusive religious org.in history, physically and mentally, that i have ever heard or read of.

so true....

[deadeye]

Where did timlan go ??????....did he cop out when Elder Blume slapped him down with the facts.....

Where are you timlan?????

[mfblume]

No argument there, but to call someone you never met ,in all likelyhood,a brass plated fraud, is not to be believed and that person should be ignored as an illogical person.The RCC is the most abusive religious org.in history, physically and mentally, that i have ever heard or read of.

And I say AMEN to that as well!

We have a church movement that claims direct descent from Peter as Pope, that openly murdered multitudes of people, and claimed it was a "mistake." The true church would never remotely involve MURDER and have the gall to call themselves the true church that made a mistake. Regardless of who else murdered people in the name of God as well, who would also be as far from God as possible, there is no excuse for those things. And then catholics have the audacity to question Charlotte and say such things could never go on as she described? Reality check, folks.

[NotforSale]

No argument there, but to call someone you never met ,in all likelyhood,a brass plated fraud, is not to be believed and that person should be ignored as an illogical person.The RCC is the most abusive religious org.in history, physically and mentally, that i have ever heard or read of.

I disagree with this statement. Religious fanaticism and abuse is nothing new today. Other Faith's in the World have a long line of abuse, including the Jewish Faith.

When my son in law came home from the Middle East during the Gulf War, I was shocked to learn how women are treated and abused in this culture that is based and reeking in Religion.

No offense, but it is statements like yours that can carry on as a "Fact", which in turn is really not the Truth. I was born and raised a Catholic and have deep Catholic roots in my family. The Father of the parish where we attended church was a very good man and was loved by the community. The Catholic School I attended was excellent and the Nuns were great teachers. Mind you, this was in the 60's when the child molestation problem was going on.

I don't think it is fair to paint with such a broad brush. Think about your statement. Have you considered the abuse, mentally, physically, and emotionally within the Apostolic Church?

Look at how Jesus rebuked the Religious of his day. Look at how the Religious treated Stephen, Paul, and how they crucified Jesus.

[whoami]

I'm probably going to get blasted for saying this, but I've often wondered what the history of abuse would be like if the UPC was as old and vast as the RCC. There are bad people in every organization, and the bigger the org. is, the more of them it will contain.

[NotforSale]

I'm probably going to get blasted for saying this, but I've often wondered what the history of abuse would be like if the UPC was as old and vast as the RCC. There are bad people in every organization, and the bigger the org. is, the more of them it will contain.

Nothing wrong with saying this at all. You bring up a very good point and one that must be considered.

The only potential wrong with what you've said, is if you decided to say nothing at all.

The greatest danger to any movement whether it be political, religious, business, or historical, would be to ridicule those who challenge the authenticity of that particular movement.

[mfblume]

There are some apostolics with as much false "tradition" as the Roman Catholic Church, I think.

[whoami]

There are some apostolics with as much false "tradition" as the Roman Catholic Church, I think.

Yes there are, and some that are sexual abusers too. Just as there are in every organization.

[mfblume]

Yes there are, and some that are sexual abusers too. Just as there are in every organization.

Exactly.

[canam]

The MAJOR difference being that no one else just moved the offenders around every time they were about to get caught and then deny, deny, deny, until irrefutable proof was delivered in a deluge.And they havent even seen the tip of the ice berg imo.!

[Sister Alvear]

I have no doubt that horrible things happen ...however things happen in Oneness groups..I know people who have been disfellowshiped and treated like some kind of dangerous crimminal...since the church(?) they were going to is the ONLY true church....

[houston]

I read this: http://seanhyland.wordpress.com/2009/01/04/a-refutation-of-the-testimony-of-charlotte-wells-charlotte-keckler/

As an ex Catholic... have to say... I dun believe her story.

[crakjak]

I read this: http://seanhyland.wordpress.com/2009/01/04/a-refutation-of-the-testimony-of-charlotte-wells-charlotte-keckler/

As an ex Catholic... have to say... I dun believe her story.

I guess you don't believe the abuse by priests either?

[houston]

I guess you don't believe the abuse by priests either?

Which account?

[sandie]

I read this: http://seanhyland.wordpress.com/2009/01/04/a-refutation-of-the-testimony-of-charlotte-wells-charlotte-keckler/

As an ex Catholic... have to say... I dun believe her story.

As soon as someone comes up with a refutation without an obvious Catholic bias, let me know. And in this case he also seems to have an anti-oneness bias.

[houston]

As soon as someone comes up with a refutation without an obvious Catholic bias, let me know. And in this case he also seems to have an anti-oneness bias.

Sure thing, as soon as "oneness" stop refuting with a "oneness" bias. :jolly

That's not even possible. The bias is there becasue he is Catholic. I am an ex- Catholic. If that was my article, would you say that it has a Catholic bias?

[sandie]

Sure thing, as soon as "oneness" stop refuting with a "oneness" bias. :jolly

That's not even possible. The bias is there becasue he is Catholic. I am an ex- Catholic. If that was my article, would you say that it has a Catholic bias?

There's a difference between being an ex something and still steeped in certain beliefs.
This guy is defending his belief system by calling someone he never met one huge epic liar.
She would have had to been certifiably insane to come up with what she has reported to have happened to her and tell others. And when she was alive, where was the proof then that she was lieing thru her teeth?
That would have been the time to expose this woman's life story as a collasal lie.
I never met her, but there are fine people on this forum who have and vouch for the validity of her story.
I guess anyone can be fooled, but this one would have taken huge efforts to pull off as real when it was fake, imo.

[houston]

There's a difference between being an ex something and still steeped in certain beliefs.
This guy is defending his belief system by calling someone he never met one huge epic liar.
She would have had to been certifiably insane to come up with what she has reported to have happened to her and tell others. And when she was alive, where was the proof then that she was lieing thru her teeth?
That would have been the time to expose this woman's life story as a collasal lie.
I never met her, but there are fine people on this forum who have and vouch for the validity of her story.
I guess anyone can be fooled, but this one would have taken huge efforts to pull off as real when it was fake, imo.The burden of proof rested on her shoulders. When you make a claim, you have to prove that it is true. You can not make a claim and expect people to prove you wrong. That is...insane. Nobody attempted to expose her story as a lie... because... that was the era of "pentecost" where nobody asked questions. Preacher/preachette said it... people believed it.

[Sam]

Sis. Charlotte is from a previous era in time:

The RCC had absolute control in some places.
Non-Catholics were suspicious and afraid of the RCC church.
There were rumors and stories about what went on behind cloistered walls.
We "wanted" to hear stuff about RCC "secrets."
We even saw some of that in 1960 when a Catholic ran for President of the US.

[houston]

Sis. Charlotte is from a previous era in time:

The RCC had absolute control in some places.
Non-Catholics were suspicious and afraid of the RCC church.
There were rumors and stories about what went on behind cloistered walls.
We "wanted" to hear stuff about RCC "secrets."
We even saw some of that in 1960 when a Catholic ran for President of the US.

The RCC had control in some places, right. But in Canada and the United States? Really?

There's always stories about what goes on behind ...walls. I don't believe every story I
hear about the UPCI. People lie. It's the nature of the beast.
AND
It would not surprise me if "higher ups" in the org knew that the story was not true.

[sandie]

The burden of proof rested on her shoulders. When you make a claim, you have to prove that it is true. You can not make a claim and expect people to prove you wrong. That is...insane. Nobody attempted to expose her story as a lie... because... that was the era of "pentecost" where nobody asked questions. Preacher/preachette said it... people believed it.

How do you know nobody attempted to expose her story?
You're placing your belief she lied on an "era of pentecost". That doesn't sound logical either.

[houston]

How do you know nobody attempted to expose her story?
You're placing your belief she lied on an "era of pentecost". That doesn't sound logical either.

My opinion is that nobody attempted to expose her story in that era of pentecost. My belief that she lied has nothing to do with that era. :)

[houston]

Ya know. What's so screwy about this is this: she sounds so sincere and I want to believe her.

[Sam]

The RCC had control in some places, right. But in Canada and the United States? Really?
...
.

That was in Montreal, Quebec, a RCC stronghold several generations ago.

[houston]

That was in Montreal, Quebec, a RCC stronghold several generations ago.

Thank you. :jolly

[RandyWayne]

It sounds like her story is the basis for most of the Chic comics I have read over the years.

[Sister Alvear]

I used to have a colection of Chic comics...

[Sister Alvear]

http://www.weirdload.com/mmonk.html

I read some on this site and it's links...

I once spent the night in a convent however I was their guest...they were kind to me...however I personally beleive Sister Charlotte's testimony...

[Azzan]

It sounds like her story is the basis for most of the Chic comics I have read over the years.

Those are still available? Those things used to give me nightmares as a kid.

[mfblume]

Jack Chick's comics had Alberto Rivera's story in them, and he referenced Charlotte. I personally met Alberto Rivera in Toronto in the early 80's when Charlotte was still alive, and told him that his statement about Charlotte being killed was wrong. This was before I worked with and helped Nilah (Rutledge) Mean publish FROM CONVENT TO PENTECOST. I told Alberto we had a manuscript of Charlotte's own story, and ALBERTO WANTED NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. I was asking him if Chick would print it since Sis Nilah was afraid to get it printed.

I informed Alberto that Charlotte was still alive in a Senior's home, but would not say where. Alberto questioned the manuscript, and did not want to hear of anything I said. He said Nilah had nuns and priests in her church all the time, and I knew that was bogus.

Alberto claimed in the Chick comics that Charlotte tried contacting him before she disappeared and told him they were after her. He lied. Flatly lied. I later pastored with Sis Nilah and preached for her for 8 years. She said they never were in contact with Alberto Rivera.

Made me wonder about how baptists are Calvinists and SOME (not all obviously) may even tell untruths to to reach people. You know, cannot lose your salvation anyway, so lie.

But Charlotte often sometimes took the women apart with her and showed them her back and the scars of lacerations she was inflicted with in the convent. She was REAL.

[Sister Alvear]

I have been trying to read and look up things...wish I had more time....

[whoami]

It sounds like her story is the basis for most of the Chic comics I have read over the years.

Ugh, my parents bought those for me when I was a kid, gave me nightmares and my little sister would have panic attacks whenever we drove by a Catholic church up into her teenage years. :-/

[canam]

My opinion is that nobody attempted to expose her story in that era of pentecost. My belief that she lied has nothing to do with that era. :)

Ya she self flaggellated herself just to go around telling lies,you people are unbelievable!

[houston]

Ya she self flaggellated herself just to go around telling lies,you people are unbelievable!
The scars could have been from another source.

[coadie]

I'm probably going to get blasted for saying this, but I've often wondered what the history of abuse would be like if the UPC was as old and vast as the RCC. There are bad people in every organization, and the bigger the org. is, the more of them it will contain.

Don't imagine it. With the alcohol abuse by both nuns and priests, all kinds of moral control slips away. When priests get drunk, they concoct all kinds of sin and when they become alcoholic, self control is gone.

[coadie]

The MAJOR difference being that no one else just moved the offenders around every time they were about to get caught and then deny, deny, deny, until irrefutable proof was delivered in a deluge.And they havent even seen the tip of the ice berg imo.!

Rome, the church of Scientology and a few other man made religions have people that full time fight cooperating with the law and fight claims of crime.
I had a scientologist employee. When he worked for me he had some foreign travel. i fired him one day when my secretary busted him with porn on his desktop, I read his personal "church" e-mail and it laid a trail of deception. If I had not fired him, he may one day have quit and erased his documentation of fraudulent deeds. They were doing the things I had read about in several books and I didn't believe.

[canam]

The scars could have been from another source.

Ya and like the priest from Boston said that abused hundreds of boys ,they needed love ,i provided it ,same mentality,you wouldnt believe it if ya saw it happen, you would say she had it coming.

[houston]

Ya and like the priest from Boston said that abused hundreds of boys ,they needed love ,i provided it ,same mentality,you wouldnt believe it if ya saw it happen, you would say she had it coming.

That's just stupid. Carry on.

[coadie]

The burden of proof rested on her shoulders. When you make a claim, you have to prove that it is true. You can not make a claim and expect people to prove you wrong. That is...insane. Nobody attempted to expose her story as a lie... because... that was the era of "pentecost" where nobody asked questions. Preacher/preachette said it... people believed it.

In many sex cases, the victim was encouraged to drop the story because they had no witnesses or they had no independent evidence.

Sexist people like Muslims say one mans testimony is stronger than the testimony of 2 women

[canam]

A lot of people still dont believe the priests did anything wrong its all just lies,from people who want money.Shocking that people deny, with overwhelming evidence staring at them.Houston must have been on the OJ jury and ex catholic too.

[Sister Alvear]

Many things are hid from the public eye however any student of history KNOWS the RCC has a dark background...and I will also be the first to admit they have done many good things also...however I have no doubt about what Sister Charlotte told...

[Cindy]

I don't think there is any way to resolve the issue one way or the other.

[Sister Alvear]

you are right...eternity will tell us...

[whoami]

I think it's very likely that her story could be true, but I don't see this as a reason to condemn every cloistered convent or every RCC priest. I believe that any organization with as much time and resources as the RCC would have a history just as corrupt. There are plenty of sexual and physical abusers in the UPC, and if the org. was as big as the RCC it would have more, and if it had a history as vast as the RCC's, there would be a vast history of abuse. This is just because there are bad people in EVERY organization, in my opinion.

[Sister Alvear]

I think it's very likely that her story could be true, but I don't see this as a reason to condemn every cloistered convent or every RCC priest. I believe that any organization with as much time and resources as the RCC would have a history just as corrupt. There are plenty of sexual and physical abusers in the UPC, and if the org. was as big as the RCC it would have more, and if it had a history as vast as the RCC's, there would be a vast history of abuse. This is just because there are bad people in EVERY organization, in my opinion.


That is also true there are bad and good people everywhere. That is why I mentioned in an earlier post I once sent the night at a convent and was treated wonderful. However we do not know what goes on anywhere behind closed doors...

Blessings and love to all...

[whoami]

That is also true there are bad and good people everywhere. That is why I mentioned in an earlier post I once sent the night at a convent and was treated wonderful. However we do not know what goes on anywhere behind closed doors...

Blessings and love to all...

This is true, and applies to many more places than convents and monasteries.

[mfblume]

This is true, and applies to many more places than convents and monasteries.

Amen.

[Bro-Larry]

Why not go to "Old Mexico" and see for your self, if you don't believe her. I've heard her complete testimony twice from her lips. I washed and waxed her blue-green 1960 Chevy Bel-Aire, when I was 16 years old. I believe every word she said. The strongest proof I see is the fact that the RCC hasn't hauled her into court. She dared then to do so many times. They cannot afford to have the closed order convents opened.

[canam]

Why not go to "Old Mexico" and see for your self, if you don't believe her. I've heard her complete testimony twice from her lips. I washed and waxed her blue-green 1960 Chevy Bel-Aire, when I was 16 years old. I believe every word she said. The strongest proof I see is the fact that the RCC hasn't hauled her into court. She dared then to do so many times. They cannot afford to have the closed order convents opened.

:thumbsup

[AreYouReady?]

I've never even heard of Sister Charlotte, nor read her story. I would be interested in reading the story.

I was raised in the RCC. Catholics in our neighborhood were expected to place their children in the local parochial school, which went up to grade eight. My oldest sister went there all 8 years. My brothers were taken out by the time they were in 2nd and 3rd grade. Mother never started me in the parochial school. She started me at public school. The excuse was that we could not afford tuition for 4 children. Why that might be true, I suspect that there was a whole lot more to it than the excuse that was given. She probably was the talk of the neighborhood at that time because she dared to be the first one to remove her children from the school. Other people followed her example several years later.

I remember my brother was punished for something he did at school. I never knew exactly what it was that he did. In our neighborhood, the church bells rang every 6 hours. At 6 am, 12 noon and 6 pm. When my brother did not come home by 6 pm, my mother was frantic. She walked over to the school building and let herself in. Nobody locked doors in that day. She walked all over the halls looking in each room. Then she heard faint sobbing in the boiler room. She went down there and there was my brother, probably about 6 or 7 years old crying. The nun made him sit down there and threatened him if he got up. She must have forgotten him after school let out at 2:30 pm. So....she must have been pretty scary for him to stay seated for over 3 hours after school let out. My mother was livid!

One of them nuns noticed that my brother was left-handed. So whenever she saw him writing with his left hand, she took the chalkboard wooden pointer stick and whacked him on his left hand.

While I was placed in public school since kindergarden, I was to go to catechism classes every Monday night. I was terrified to go some days. The nun would question us and yell at us if she did not like our answer.

During practice for our first Holy Communion, we public school students were merged with the parochial school students for practice. The nun never got seats for us who went to public school. She made us public school children stand in the back of the room during instruction.

On the Sunday we made our first Holy Communion, I made a mistake and did not even realize it. After church, she herded us into the classroom and she literally screamed at me in front of the whole class that I ruined the entire first Holy Communion ceremony because I forgot to take off my gloves during the Eucharist. That nun was flat mean! It made an impression on me for me to remember my terrified feelings after all these years.

I never remembered the Priest's coming to visit us. They may have a time or two, but never as much as I knew they visited other families in the neighborhood. Maybe that was a blessing. :)

So yeah....I can believe Sister Charlotte's story to be authentic. I can believe that her family disowned her. My own sister told me that she knew "what I was" without explanation as to what the "what" was and that I am to leave her alone. She doesn't even answer my phone calls to ask how my mother is doing. She is a cruel person. Her home has a shrine to Mary with pine cones all around it and she wants to replicate the "grotto" in her backyard patterned after the one at Notre Dame University.

That's not saying all Catholics are mean and cruel though. My mother was mostly mild and sweet. She was nurturing when we were growing up. She loves Jesus. She's been catholic all her life.

[Hoovie]

I've never even heard of Sister Charlotte, nor read her story. I would be interested in reading the story.

I was raised in the RCC. Catholics in our neighborhood were expected to place their children in the local parochial school, which went up to grade eight. My oldest sister went there all 8 years. My brothers were taken out by the time they were in 2nd and 3rd grade. Mother never started me in the parochial school. She started me at public school. The excuse was that we could not afford tuition for 4 children. Why that might be true, I suspect that there was a whole lot more to it than the excuse that was given. She probably was the talk of the neighborhood at that time because she dared to be the first one to remove her children from the school. Other people followed her example several years later.

I remember my brother was punished for something he did at school. I never knew exactly what it was that he did. In our neighborhood, the church bells rang every 6 hours. At 6 am, 12 noon and 6 pm. When my brother did not come home by 6 pm, my mother was frantic. She walked over to the school building and let herself in. Nobody locked doors in that day. She walked all over the halls looking in each room. Then she heard faint sobbing in the boiler room. She went down there and there was my brother, probably about 6 or 7 years old crying. The nun made him sit down there and threatened him if he got up. She must have forgotten him after school let out at 2:30 pm. So....she must have been pretty scary for him to stay seated for over 3 hours after school let out. My mother was livid!

One of them nuns noticed that my brother was left-handed. So whenever she saw him writing with his left hand, she took the chalkboard wooden pointer stick and whacked him on his left hand.

While I was placed in public school since kindergarden, I was to go to catechism classes every Monday night. I was terrified to go some days. The nun would question us and yell at us if she did not like our answer.

During practice for our first Holy Communion, we public school students were merged with the parochial school students for practice. The nun never got seats for us who went to public school. She made us public school children stand in the back of the room during instruction.

On the Sunday we made our first Holy Communion, I made a mistake and did not even realize it. After church, she herded us into the classroom and she literally screamed at me in front of the whole class that I ruined the entire first Holy Communion ceremony because I forgot to take off my gloves during the Eucharist. That nun was flat mean! It made an impression on me for me to remember my terrified feelings after all these years.

I never remembered the Priest's coming to visit us. They may have a time or two, but never as much as I knew they visited other families in the neighborhood. Maybe that was a blessing. :)

So yeah....I can believe Sister Charlotte's story to be authentic. I can believe that her family disowned her. My own sister told me that she knew "what I was" without explanation as to what the "what" was and that I am to leave her alone. She doesn't even answer my phone calls to ask how my mother is doing. She is a cruel person. Her home has a shrine to Mary with pine cones all around it and she wants to replicate the "grotto" in her backyard patterned after the one at Notre Dame University.

That's not saying all Catholics are mean and cruel though. My mother was mostly mild and sweet. She was nurturing when we were growing up. She loves Jesus. She's been catholic all her life.

Not to minimize some serious disagreements I have with the Catholic Church, I think your last statement is very telling - and I can relate.

While there is some meanness and abuse by some, it does not necessarily speak of the sum.

I can say the same thing about my family and the Mennonite church I was raised in, and, oddly enough about Pentecostal churches as well.

[AreYouReady?]

Not to minimize some serious disagreements I have with the Catholic Church, I think your last statement is very telling - and I can relate.

While there is some meanness and abuse by some, it does not necessarily speak of the sum.

I can say the same thing about my family and the Mennonite church I was raised in, and, oddly enough about Pentecostal churches as well.

Yes Hoovie. I have serious disagreements with the RCC also. I went through a period of anger when I found out what I've been taught all my life was not totally from biblical sources. I also went through some anger when standards became more important (to some people) than what Christ taught while I was in the Pentecostal church.

That is twice I have had to "reprogram" myself on what I have been taught. Or should I just say that I have outgrown what I have been taught by others and hope to continue to grow in the Word through the Holy Spirit?

But...I have come to some conclusion that since there are so many different denominations out there who nitpick scriptures with how we will spend eternity, I will have to always go back to the CROSS where my Savior shed His blood for my salvation. That's where it's all at. Nobody can supersede that action that Jesus took for us.

[Steve Epley]

I saw and hear Sis. Charlotte when I was a boy.

[AreYouReady?]

Is your opinion of her favorable or do you believe that she was embellishing her experience?

[Jay]

Is your opinion of her favorable or do you believe that she was embellishing her experience?



I have heard from others that such things have occured in other closed convents, and it an open joke that the priests have relations with the nuns. I work with some Catholics, and they have told me that it is known that the priests have done this, and the issues of illicit sex with minors has always been a problem.

[Barb]

I have heard from others that such things have occured in other closed convents, and it an open joke that the priests have relations with the nuns. I work with some Catholics, and they have told me that it is known that the priests have done this, and the issues of illicit sex with minors has always been a problem.

My great aunt had a baby in a convent...

[Steve Epley]

Is your opinion of her favorable or do you believe that she was embellishing her experience?

I do know the Church where she was testifying recieved threatening letters saying they would burn the church down.

[Titus2woman]

I absolutely can not fathom how someone who got free of the horrors in Charlotte's book could possibly, if they had any sliver of conscience at all, have left other women behind to be repeatedly raped, tortured and killed and infants to be murdered. The fact that she never revealed enough details to help anyone else and never sought to get her story out to the authorities seems in my opinion beyond cowardly and truly monstrous if the experiences she relates are true. Who would deny that it is the legal and moral obligation of every human being with knowledge or something so henious to do their utmost to bring perpetrators to justice and save innocent victims.

The simple answer would be that she would have been in danger, but she did not feel in enough danger to not carry this tale into Pentecostal churches all over the country, so in my opinion that is absolutely no excuse. All the baloney about not wanting to upset her already estranged, still catholic family is just so much petty drivel when we are talking about saving the lives of women and infants... What in the world were those who paraded her from church to church thinking? If I ever heard such a story I would insist that we move heaven and earth to rescue those left behind and bring the criminals to justice.

I am not going to make any attempt to judge if or how many of her stories are true, only God knows the answer to that. But because she used her story for personal gain rather than to truly be a help to others, in my view she becomes less a person for each story that that is true, not each one that isn't.

And I feel truly terrible for my low opinion of someone who may have suffered so much.

[Jay]

I absolutely can not fathom how someone who got free of the horrors in Charlotte's book could possibly, if they had any sliver of conscience at all, have left other women behind to be repeatedly raped, tortured and killed and infants to be murdered. The fact that she never revealed enough details to help anyone else and never sought to get her story out to the authorities seems in my opinion beyond cowardly and truly monstrous if the experiences she relates are true. Who would deny that it is the legal and moral obligation of every human being with knowledge or something so henious to do their utmost to bring perpetrators to justice and save innocent victims.

The simple answer would be that she would have been in danger, but she did not feel in enough danger to not carry this tale into Pentecostal churches all over the country, so in my opinion that is absolutely no excuse. All the baloney about not wanting to upset her already estranged, still catholic family is just so much petty drivel when we are talking about saving the lives of women and infants... What in the world were those who paraded her from church to church thinking? If I ever heard such a story I would insist that we move heaven and earth to rescue those left behind and bring the criminals to justice.

I am not going to make any attempt to judge if or how many of her stories are true, only God knows the answer to that. But because she used her story for personal gain rather than to truly be a help to others, in my view she becomes less a person for each story that that is true, not each one that isn't.

And I feel truly terrible for my low opinion of someone who may have suffered so much.



There are some things that we must consider before becoming to severe about her apparent lack of agresssion against the RCC.

1) Cloisters were legal in most countries and off limits to all outsiders.

2) The influence weilded by the RCC is enough to make most officials turn a blind eye to the abuses inside a facility such as this.

3) The RCC being a well known entity would be difficult to attack because of the level of respect given to religious institutions. This would render her accusations of none effect, especially as so few were inclined to speak out about these issues.

4) She was raising awareness of these practices by giving her testimony.

5) If memory serves, her first convent was over seas making it difficult if not impossible for her to arrange the freedom of the women involved.

6) The cultic atmosphere would make it very difficult for anyone to leave the cloister, and only a few did willingly.

There are other things to consider as well. Including the fact that many of the cloisters in the U.S. and Mexico have now been opened, we have discovered that many of the descriptions of the cloistered life as she described were true.

[Sister Alvear]

Working in the largest Catholic country in the world...I must say I believe every word of her book...yes, I too heard her many years ago. Brother Blume can give you information about her.

[Titus2woman]

There are some things that we must consider before becoming to severe about her apparent lack of agresssion against the RCC.

I did not suggest that SHE needed to be 'aggressive' toward any person or organization, I suggested that it was her moral and legal duty to get her story to the proper authorities, not carry it around the country making a living off it's sensationalism.

1) Cloisters were legal in most countries and off limits to all outsiders. Rape, abortion against a womans will, murdering babies and nuns has NEVER been legal anywhere in North America and there has never been a time in the history of Canada or the U.S. that those charges would have not been investigated.

2) The influence weilded by the RCC is enough to make most officials turn a blind eye to the abuses inside a facility such as this. You are simply restating what you have said above with different words as if it ia new and separate argument.

3) The RCC being a well known entity would be difficult to attack because of the level of respect given to religious institutions. This would render her accusations of none effect, especially as so few were inclined to speak out about these issues. HUH? She claims to have escaped from a place where she was tortured, sexually abused, women and babies were murdered... these are not ISSUES... they are CRIMES. Huge capital crimes. The kind that carry the DEATH PENALTY in many places. She was solely responsible for leaving behind women who were NEVER GIVEN THE CHANCE TO SPEAK OUT ABOUT ANYTHING. That makes her a monster not a hero.

4) She was raising awareness of these practices by giving her testimony. Raising awareness was not a concept that even existed then... very new age. These women did not need awareness raised they needed to be rescued from a place where they were being held against their will and repeatedly raped and sometimes killed. HOW WOULD YOU FEEL ABOUT SOMEONE WHO LEFT YOU IN A SITUATION LIKE THAT?????

5) If memory serves, her first convent was over seas making it difficult if not impossible for her to arrange the freedom of the women involved. Nope, Canada. But if it was overseas...so what?

6) The cultic atmosphere would make it very difficult for anyone to leave the cloister, and only a few did willingly. PLUHEEZZEEE. Young girls who sign up to live a life dedicated to God, in which they will remain eternal virgins, who will spend all their days doing good and helping those less fortunate... or will dedicate themselves to a life of prayer for humanity, sacrificing all worldly things... DO NOT expect to become the sex slaves of a bunch of nasty gross old men who rape and torture them. Her story was that she had to escape. She was kept locked away. She got OUT and she left everyone else BEHIND and did not ever make any attempt to rescue them. She only wanted her story published AFTER her death when it would do no one any good and it is still so sketchy that law enforcement would have nothing to go on... No names, dates and times, exact locations. Just drivel.

There are other things to consider as well. Including the fact that many of the cloisters in the U.S. and Mexico have now been opened, we have discovered that many of the descriptions of the cloistered life as she described were true. Proof of this big broad statement please?

These convents have been named as close as Canada and Mexico. I still believe there has never, ever, ever in history been a time anywhere in North America that there was not a secular branch of government completely unaffected by any religious affiliation that would have acted, had she been seeking freedom and justice for those she claimed to have left behind.

It was SHE who kept secrecy surrounding her previous situation, I can have no respect for that at all and truly hope that the reason for that secrecy was that she did not want her claims to be found exaggerated or false. For me false claims would be the very best outcome of this story when compared to the other possibilities. If the worst thing Charlotte ever did was con a bunch of Pentecostals who wanted to buy what she was selling I would be a lot happier.

I read Charlotte's book many years ago and at the end of reading it I threw it in the garbage, something I have never done with a book before or since.
It is Charlotte's complete lack of Christian principles in her unwillingness to sacrifice what ever she would have had to lose by insisting that something be done to to stop abuse that upset me. It is not that I do not believe that abuse happens, even to nuns. It is that I see someone who claims to have real details that could put abusers in jail and does not share them. As big a sin as the abuse itself.

Comparing Charlotte to people like Alfred Weczler and Rudolf Vrba- who escaped Auschwitz and were in large part responsible for letting the world know what was going on in concentration camps- I find her completely lacking. These men were almost singlehandedly responsible for the Nuremberg trials. There is a world that cares about protecting innocents and when we convince ourselves that there is not we hit a kind of apathy that we better all fear.

In my opinion, instead of doing the right thing, this woman became a self appointed evangelist going from revival to revival, filling her own pockets by selling her story. As far as I am aware this became her primary source of income as I have never heard that she did any other meaningful work in her lifetime after leaving the convent. Selling her story appears to have been enough to sustain her, since one can assume that she would have escaped with narry a penny to her name and states that she was disowned by her family. Yet she managed to live a life of prestige, while presumably the others she spoke of were left behind with no justice and criminals walked free to harm others that she had never even met. How horrible.

[Falla39]

Sis. Charlotte stayed in our home twice in the early 60's, and gave her testimony in the church our late father founded and pastored. One thing that comes to mind, how a Methodist neighbor lady told her, "Charlotte, I am going to pray for you every day until God delivers you out of that place". When Charlotte did escape, at one point the neighbor lady told her that she had prayed every day for her! 23 years! Could God trust us to pray for someone until the answer came! The prayers of a righteous man/woman availeth much!

A few years ago I came in contact with an old, old booklet in a used book store. It is the story written by a Catholic lady who was also in a cloistered convent. The stories are
remarkabley similar.
Perhaps many children have been afraid to tell things that happened to them because they feared that those the closest to them will not believe them. So they continue to live in a prison of fear and shame.
What a shame!

Falla39

[crakjak]

I did not suggest that SHE needed to be 'aggressive' toward any person or organization, I suggested that it was her moral and legal duty to get her story to the proper authorities, not carry it around the country making a living off it's sensationalism.

Rape, abortion against a womans will, murdering babies and nuns has NEVER been legal anywhere in North America and there has never been a time in the history of Canada or the U.S. that those charges would have not been investigated.

You are simply restating what you have said above with different words as if it ia new and separate argument.

HUH? She claims to have escaped from a place where she was tortured, sexually abused, women and babies were murdered... these are not ISSUES... they are CRIMES. Huge capital crimes. The kind that carry the DEATH PENALTY in many places. She was solely responsible for leaving behind women who were NEVER GIVEN THE CHANCE TO SPEAK OUT ABOUT ANYTHING. That makes her a monster not a hero.

Raising awareness was not a concept that even existed then... very new age. These women did not need awareness raised they needed to be rescued from a place where they were being held against their will and repeatedly raped and sometimes killed. HOW WOULD YOU FEEL ABOUT SOMEONE WHO LEFT YOU IN A SITUATION LIKE THAT?????

Nope, Canada. But if it was overseas...so what?

PLUHEEZZEEE. Young girls who sign up to live a life dedicated to God, in which they will remain eternal virgins, who will spend all their days doing good and helping those less fortunate... or will dedicate themselves to a life of prayer for humanity, sacrificing all worldly things... DO NOT expect to become the sex slaves of a bunch of nasty gross old men who rape and torture them. Her story was that she had to escape. She was kept locked away. She got OUT and she left everyone else BEHIND and did not ever make any attempt to rescue them. She only wanted her story published AFTER her death when it would do no one any good and it is still so sketchy that law enforcement would have nothing to go on... No names, dates and times, exact locations. Just drivel.

Proof of this big broad statement please?

These convents have been named as close as Canada and Mexico. I still believe there has never, ever, ever in history been a time anywhere in North America that there was not a secular branch of government completely unaffected by any religious affiliation that would have acted, had she been seeking freedom and justice for those she claimed to have left behind.

It was SHE who kept secrecy surrounding her previous situation, I can have no respect for that at all and truly hope that the reason for that secrecy was that she did not want her claims to be found exaggerated or false. For me false claims would be the very best outcome of this story when compared to the other possibilities. If the worst thing Charlotte ever did was con a bunch of Pentecostals who wanted to buy what she was selling I would be a lot happier.

I read Charlotte's book many years ago and at the end of reading it I threw it in the garbage, something I have never done with a book before or since.
It is Charlotte's complete lack of Christian principles in her unwillingness to sacrifice what ever she would have had to lose by insisting that something be done to to stop abuse that upset me. It is not that I do not believe that abuse happens, even to nuns. It is that I see someone who claims to have real details that could put abusers in jail and does not share them. As big a sin as the abuse itself.

Comparing Charlotte to people like Alfred Weczler and Rudolf Vrba- who escaped Auschwitz and were in large part responsible for letting the world know what was going on in concentration camps- I find her completely lacking. These men were almost singlehandedly responsible for the Nuremberg trials. There is a world that cares about protecting innocents and when we convince ourselves that there is not we hit a kind of apathy that we better all fear.

In my opinion, instead of doing the right thing, this woman became a self appointed evangelist going from revival to revival, filling her own pockets by selling her story. As far as I am aware this became her primary source of income as I have never heard that she did any other meaningful work in her lifetime after leaving the convent. Selling her story appears to have been enough to sustain her, since one can assume that she would have escaped with narry a penny to her name and states that she was disowned by her family. Yet she managed to live a life of prestige, while presumably the others she spoke of were left behind with no justice and criminals walked free to harm others that she had never even met. How horrible.

You have no idea what she did concerning the others "left behind" this was an abandoned woman, that was left physically, emotionally and financially completely broken.

And you fault her for not throwing herself to the wolves, against the most powerful and corrupt religious entity in the world.

Your assumptions are only outweighed by your ignorance. This was her story, and she had every right to tell it, and there was plenty of evidence of its validity.

She bravely told her story in city after city where the RCC had loyal defenders, without any protection save her trust in the living God. And the idea that she enriched herself is complete nonsense.

The corruption of the RCC has been exposed by her story and the stories of the homosexuality and pedophilia of the priesthood, and hopefully some reforms have come about because of such exposure. Or do you not believe those stories either?

[TGBTG]

I absolutely can not fathom how someone who got free of the horrors in Charlotte's book could possibly, if they had any sliver of conscience at all, have left other women behind to be repeatedly raped, tortured and killed and infants to be murdered. The fact that she never revealed enough details to help anyone else and never sought to get her story out to the authorities seems in my opinion beyond cowardly and truly monstrous if the experiences she relates are true. Who would deny that it is the legal and moral obligation of every human being with knowledge or something so henious to do their utmost to bring perpetrators to justice and save innocent victims.

The simple answer would be that she would have been in danger, but she did not feel in enough danger to not carry this tale into Pentecostal churches all over the country, so in my opinion that is absolutely no excuse. All the baloney about not wanting to upset her already estranged, still catholic family is just so much petty drivel when we are talking about saving the lives of women and infants... What in the world were those who paraded her from church to church thinking? If I ever heard such a story I would insist that we move heaven and earth to rescue those left behind and bring the criminals to justice.

I am not going to make any attempt to judge if or how many of her stories are true, only God knows the answer to that. But because she used her story for personal gain rather than to truly be a help to others, in my view she becomes less a person for each story that that is true, not each one that isn't.

And I feel truly terrible for my low opinion of someone who may have suffered so much.

ReallY??? :thumbsdown :thumbsdown :thumbsdown

[houston]

Funny that this thread was bumped. I repent of the comments that I made. I have my own stories that I could tell, and have told. Family and friends think I'm nuts or lying. SMH.

[Sister Alvear]

As I said I believe every word she wrote...I happen to work and live in the largest Catholic country in the world...Never think ROME is your friend....

[Titus2woman]

You have no idea what she did concerning the others "left behind" this was an abandoned woman, that was left physically, emotionally and financially completely broken.

And you fault her for not throwing herself to the wolves, against the most powerful and corrupt religious entity in the world.

Your assumptions are only outweighed by your ignorance. This was her story, and she had every right to tell it, and there was plenty of evidence of its validity.

She bravely told her story in city after city where the RCC had loyal defenders, without any protection save her trust in the living God. And the idea that she enriched herself is complete nonsense.

The corruption of the RCC has been exposed by her story and the stories of the homosexuality and pedophilia of the priesthood, and hopefully some reforms have come about because of such exposure. Or do you not believe those stories either?

Yes I believe them. And I am not saying I do not believe her story. I am saying that I also believe that she had personal motive for not doing all she could have to help others who with all her years in convent should have been her friends. Only she knows what that motive was, I simply speculated a couple of possibilities. Just how then, since you are so well informed, did she make her living?

She is dead and I can not hurt her feelings. It was her desire that her book only be realeased and up for discussion AFTER HER DEATH, not mine. As a matter of fact, since by her own accounting her own family diswoned her and she had no children there is not anyone to hurt by expressing an honest opinon, except you apparently... Which makes me wonder why YOU would be so attached to the idea of this being truth that you would be willing to publically berate me, a living person. :)

And what of all these Pentecostal preachers who heard her story? Not one made sure that she had filed a formal complaint with legal authorities before they put her behind their pulpits? Isn't that typical of desireing the sensational more than truth or justice?

I did not think that this would be a popular opinion... and hesitated to post it, but I will not be numbered with the cowardly. It is my honest opinion, as I assume your's is to you. You don't have to like it. As a victim of assault I made sure my attacker went to prison where he could not hurt others. It was neither comfortable or safe to do so. I speak from experience, not ignorance.

[crakjak]

Yes I believe them. And I am not saying I do not believe her story. I am saying that I also believe that she had personal motive for not doing all she could have to help others who with all her years in convent should have been her friends. Only she knows what that motive was, I simply speculated a couple of possibilities.

She is dead and I can not hurt her feelings. It was her desire that her book only be realeased and up for discussion AFTER HER DEATH, not mine. Dead people can not be thrown to the wolves. As a matter of fact, since by her own accounting her own family diswoned her and she had no children there is not anyone to hurt by expressing an honest opinon, except you apparently... Which makes me wonder why YOU would be so attached to the idea of this being truth that you would be willing to publically berate me, a living person. :)

And what of all these Pentecostal preachers who heard her story? Not one would have made sure that she had filed a formal complaint with legal authorities before they put her behind their pulpits?

I did not think that this would be a popular opinion... and hesitated to post it, but I will not be numbered with the cowardly. It is my honest opinion, as I assume your's is to you. You don't have to like it. As a victim of assault I made sure my attacker went to prison. It was neither comfortable or safe to do so. I speak from experience, not ignorance.

This story, of Charlotte is a very old story, its beginning is now nearing 100 years ago, so to say that no action was done is where I applied ignorance, it was not an attack on your intelligence. She did not want to associate any of her living family to her story, to prevent any abuse of them to get to her, that was the reason for her not revealing details in a book while she lived. I can't imagine the pain that she suffered both physically and emotionally, but I have no doubt that she presented her story in truth. There was numerous attempts by the RCC to silence her, and they threatened all members of her family with eternal torment in hell, for that reason her father returned her to the convent after she had come back to the US, can you imagine how broken she was??? Fortunately, she escape the second time and never trusted her family again.

I am sorry for your pain, and very glad the perpetrator was imprisoned, but your position was much stronger than Charlotte's, she was broken over many, many years. She stayed with some of my family, she was no fraud.

[Titus2woman]

This story, of Charlotte is a very old story, its beginning is now nearing 100 years ago, so to say that no action was done is where I applied ignorance, it was not an attack on your intelligence.

I am sorry for your pain, and very glad the perpetrator was imprisoned, but your position was much stronger than Charlotte's, she was broken over many, many years. She stayed with some of my family, she was no fraud.

Than just on your word I am more likely to find her believeable. Her book was very surreal and not very convincing, sorry.

[Hoovie]

I hear what Ms Titus is saying, but I think we have to acknowledge the resources available to victims are much greater now than in the past century.

[Titus2woman]

I hear what Ms Titus is saying, but I think we have to acknowledge the resources available to victims are much greater now than in the past century.

While I agree with this statement completely this was the reason I gave the examples of those who escaped concentration camps... same time period, more or less?

Please understand I have no reason to want to malign this woman... I just think it a shame that she set this up so that there was no chance of anyone ever being brought to justice or any other victim ever being helped by her testimony, which belonged in a court of law more than behind a Pentecostal pulpit. She may very well have just been broken and unable to clearly think through what needed to be done...

So where were all of the people who used her story? Why did none of them do the right thing? Many ministers were well respected and even connected people who could have DONE something. A lot of people knew her story in time to know that abuses would have STILL BEEN GOING ON!

[houston]

I hear what Ms Titus is saying, but I think we have to acknowledge the resources available to victims are much greater now than in the past century.

Yeah. I didn't take that into consideration when I made my comments at the start of this thread. Her story took place in a different time. People didn't speak out, and those that did were silenced in one fashion or another...

[Falla39]

I have read counterfeit copies of Sis. Charlotte's story. Easily recognized by the omission of full truth. Others have used her story to make a profit but her story is written under the title, "From Convent To Pentecost". Bro. Mike Blume, as he has stated, helped Sis. Nilah Means get this story published. Sis. Charlotte told us in the early 60's that her book would be published after her decease.
It seems to me that perhaps there is a lack of confidence in those who allowed Sis. Charlotte to give her testimonies at their churches. Did they not have discernment. These were pastors who had the Spirit of God in them. Evidently they didn't doubt her story. If they had had the lack of confidence some have, perhaps her story would never have been told. I personally believe GOD perserved her and her story. HE knew WHO would allow it to be told and made the connection. It wasn't allowed in the hands of those who would not believe her, and could only cause further hurt!
I do remember that Sis. Charlotte made a phone call when she arrived at our home to inform that she had arrived safely. She made another phone call when she was leaving
to inform that she was leaving our city. Her whereabouts were being monitored by those whose hands GOD allowed to watch out for her safety.

Falla39

[Titus2woman]

I have read counterfeit copies of Sis. Charlotte's story. Easily recognized by the omission of full truth. Others have used her story to make a profit but her story is written under the title, "From Convent To Pentecost". Bro. Mike Blume, as he has stated, helped Sis. Nilah Means get this story published. Sis. Charlotte told us in the early 60's that her book would be published after her decease.
It seems to me that perhaps there is a lack of confidence in those who allowed Sis. Charlotte to give her testimonies at their churches. Did they not have discernment. These were pastors who had the Spirit of God in them. Evidently they didn't doubt her story. If they had had the lack of confidence some have, perhaps her story would never have been told. I personally believe GOD perserved her and her story. HE knew WHO would allow it to be told and made the connection. It wasn't allowed in the hands of those who would not believe her, and could only cause further hurt!
I do remember that Sis. Charlotte made a phone call when she arrived at our home to inform that she had arrived safely. She made another phone call when she was leaving
to inform that she was leaving our city. Her whereabouts were being monitored by those whose hands GOD allowed to watch out for her safety.

Falla39

I am sure the answer is no before I even ask the queston... but have you seen the excerpt from the movie Borat where Pentecostal 'men of God' give us a not so shining example of their powers of discernment?

I do not have faith in ministers 'decernment' and there are many reasons... not the least of which is that of all the ministers who ever heard Charlotte's story, it appears none thought contacting the authorities about abuse that would certainly still have been going at the time, was a prudent thing to do.

Sweet Sister Falla I am so very sorry to disagree with one who is so kind and gracious.

The book I read was called From Convent to Pentecost and was from Pentecostal Publishing House.

[canam]

You would be laughed into oblivion if you tried to get authorities to investigate anything against the rcc in the 50's and 60's,i believe every word she said ,priests came to our camp meeting during her testimony in our area and jumped up constantly, yelling thats a lie ,it has now been revealed that she was spot on,not only were they raping the altar boys, some in the Boston area in the near hundreds, they were raping the nuns, with rampant alcoholism also involved.

[AreYouReady?]

Again, being raised Roman Catholic, I know first hand the tripe that church system (RCC) feeds the people. They instill a lot of fear into them from childhood on up. They teach the people to equate the church with being God. That the Priests have some special channel to God. I've heard since childhood rumors of people in the neighborhood leaving the church. Instead of saying they left the church, they would say that so and so left God and not the organized church system. Then there are the Catholic "indulgences". You pay a priest to say a Mass for someone who is deceased in the attempt to get them out of purgatory. The rest of us were just told to pray the poor souls out of purgatory. I grew up learning a vast supply of religious and cultural superstition and fear to never utter anything against the church.

This is just my understanding from it all. I've left that system officially 33 years ago and subconsciously (spiritually) 42 years ago, so I may have forgotten much of the specific hypocrisy I've learned about that system.

After living through some of the *fear of hell* that the RCC leadership puts the people through, I can understand Charlotte's fear of reprisal against herself and her family. During the 50s and 60s, people never believed anything negative about the the RCC hierarchy. In fact, right or wrong, they sided with the hierarchy. I've heard it said so many times.."You are not supposed to question leadership" to the point that I become very frustrated. My sister and I are on the outs in our relationship because I question and she doesn't. Yet I did not have the years of indoctrination my sister has had, as well as Charlotte had and lived through. I guess I could describe myself to be too stupid to think about reprisals.

Hey! The thought just came to me that maybe this is the very reason why my sister disowned me. :nod

Now, I've seen the same fear-mongering happen even in the Pentecostal Churches. While the majority of preachers realize that they are mere human beings...of like passion as other men and women, some do not. Some feel that they are above reproach and that the "laity", an unbiblical term no less, should not have anything to say about it. This mindset is a breeding ground for corruption. Some preachers equate themselves as sitting in the seat of Moses, while they ignore Matthew 20:25-27.

Not bashing all Pentecostal preachers because I also know that the congregation can be brutal to the ministry.

That being said, Titus2Woman is not disputing the validity of what has happened to thousands of young boys, girls and nuns. Although I have not read the book, (of which I would love to read) I am gathering from the posts here that Charlotte is telling her own story of her own abuse and escape. I understand from what I am reading is merely that T2W is questioning why Charlotte did not talk about any attempt made to have the authorities investigate? That is a reasonable request coming from someone who found kindness from a Catholic woman in her life. Many from the Catholic "laity" have much more kindness in their hearts than the Catholic "clergy" imho.

I have my own questions too just from reading the posts here. The indoctrination I have had was that you sacrificed yourself for the church. That the RCC mindset was the more you suffer in this life, the more "spiritual" you are. That we humans are not better than our suffering Savior. I may be speaking ignorantly here, not having read the book, but could it be that the nuns in that convent felt it was their duty to submit to these men from hades and to suffer accordingly as well as to defend what was being done to them? Perhaps Charlotte felt that none of the nuns (no pun intended) would substantiate her story and even lie in favor of their perpetrators for the sake of "the church"? (Stockholm Syndrome) These are questions I have and more. This story intrigues me.

T2W has every right spiritually and morally to state her opinion and question as to why Charlotte did not push for a proper authority investigation. I perceive that T2W is a woman of integrity, even if it means that her own reputation will get smeared by some defending what she questions. (not saying anyone here will do so, but those out in the world by people who have no belief in our Savior) I perceive that she feels, at least if nobody else believes or agrees with her, God knows her heart and that she feels she has said and done what is expected of her by God. It's not easy being the lone gunman that blasts away at the solid rock of secrecy or to question the motives of sensational speakers. It makes others exercise their thinking caps. I also have seen that T2W is humble when she is mistaken as all of us sometimes are. Many of us never admit our mistakes, while she does if she realizes she may be mistaken. It is painful to admit our faults, because we all want to be right in our views. We all want to be loved by others.

Tituswoman displays the kind of honesty and humbleness that is honorable, of which I would do well if I learned to try to pattern my actions after these attributes.

Let people state their opinion and let us all examine ourselves over what anybody has to say here. This freedom of opinion is what sets this forum a cut above all other forums.

[AreYouReady?]

...it has now been revealed that she was spot on,not only were they raping the altar boys, some in the Boston area in the near hundreds, they were raping the nuns, with rampant alcoholism also involved.

I can remember hearing the rumors of cases and cases of beer being delivered to the Parish Rectory back in the 60s at our local church. I do remember being at a friend's home when one of the priests come to visit the family. The first thing that was done was to place an opened bottle of beer in front of the priest. I saw this with my own eyes so I can believe alcoholism may be involved. The priests can go from house to house for a beer until they get their buzz and walk back to the Rectory without fear of being arrested for public drunk because they are a "man of the cloth".

Heh...the term "house to house" takes on a different meaning here. :nod

[Falla39]

I have seen the exerpt of the Borat movie. TRUE discernment comes from the Spirit of God. Just as other spiritual gifts.
"Borat" isn't the first one to fake that he received the Holy Ghost, and he won't be the last. WE are told in the Word to try the spirits, to see IF they be of GOD. Which is worse, to fake it, or deny that someone has received the Spirit, when indeed they have received it. The enemy will try to get people that have truly received the Holy Ghost, to doubt that they really received it. There are spirits of deception, lies, intimidating, etc., and all kinds of evil spirits. We need the Holy Ghost (the Spirit of Truth) to discern all false spirits. Another spirit the enemy uses to control and intimidate God's people is a/the spirit of FEAR and DOUBT!

I am SO thankful for a GOD who knows all there is to know about anyone, anything, anywhere, or anytime!! There are deceiving spirits, and many other spirits that have gone out into the world. BUT there are also the gifts of the SPIRIT in which we can measure or discern false christs (so-called anointings). Try, or test the spirits by the HOLY SPIRIT (Spirit of TRUTH)!

Falla39

[Titus2woman]

I have seen the exerpt of the Borat movie. TRUE discernment comes from the Spirit of God. Just as other spiritual gifts.
"Borat" isn't the first one to fake that he received the Holy Ghost, and he won't be the last. WE are told in the Word to try the spirits, to see IF they be of GOD. Which is worse, to fake it, or deny that someone has received the Spirit, when indeed they have received it. The enemy will try to get people that have truly received the Holy Ghost, to doubt that they really received it. There are spirits of deception, lies, intimidating, etc., and all kinds of evil spirits. We need the Holy Ghost (the Spirit of Truth) to discern all false spirits. Another spirit the enemy uses to control and intimidate God's people is a/the spirit of FEAR and DOUBT!

I am SO thankful for a GOD who knows all there is to know about anyone, anything, anywhere, or anytime!! There are deceiving spirits, and many other spirits that have gone out into the world. BUT there are also the gifts of the SPIRIT in which we can measure or discern false christs (so-called anointings). Try, or test the spirits by the HOLY SPIRIT (Spirit of TRUTH)!

Falla39

Amen Sister Falla.

I stand amazed that you have seen Borat :)

Some of your good reports of this woman help me to believe that perhaps the book itself is just poorly written and not convincing but that in person she seemed sincere.

My heart still breaks for those who had to have seen a glimmer of hope in her escape that would never have seen anything come from it.

[Titus2woman]

AYR- you are truly a friend. I am speechless.

[AreYouReady?]

I feel in my heart that you do not mean any harm to anybody in this world. That sometimes...some things need to be said...and that it takes courage to say these things, even if it is not a popular thought process.

I like your courage, honesty and integrity. I wanna be like you when I grow up. :heeheehee

[Jay]

T2W, I understand and was not trying to start an argument. I felt that each of those points raised would need to be addressed separately, especially considering that during this same era there were people who traveled pretending to be preachers of the Gospel, but were actually stealing and lying to the people with lying wonders. Many times these people were not brought to justice as they skipped out just ahead of the mob (Mark Twain depicts just such a scene in Huckleberry Finn).

Also as most of her abuse occurred in a foreign country, she would not have had the recourse possible in the United States. This was also a time when Italy and Spain were more Catholic than secular. I do not remember where she was held, but it was obvious that there was a very strong cultic influence on the nuns in the cloister.

We had a cloistered convent that had been closed withing a few hours drive of us, when we lived in Kansas. One of the ladies of the church had visited it several years before, and when the pastor of the church promoted Sis. Charlotte's book, reported that she had seen very similar things remaining from the defunct cloister there.

As to how they get away with it? How was it that Gacy, BTK, the Zodiac, and other horrible serial killers go for years and kill unknown numbers of people without being caught? How do the perpetrators of domestic violence escape from justice?

The answer to every single question is the same. The air or respectability provides them cover to hide the darkness inside their souls. Sometimes they are so well hid that any who report them are not believed until it is too late. At that time there are questions asked as to why no one knew or believed. If one looks at the RCC with the same vision, we are asking the same questions that we do when confronted by abuse or murder.

[Falla39]

Another link regarding Sis. Charlotte's Testimony

http://oldlandmark.wordpress.com/2007/07/04/25/

[AreYouReady?]

...especially considering that during this same era there were people who traveled pretending to be preachers of the Gospel, but were actually stealing and lying to the people with lying wonders.

Heh...things have not changed all that much. Only the method of deception has changed.

[Jay]

Sis Falla, I had read the book many years ago, and reading the review from that website disturbed me all over again. This in not really a book to be read by anyone under the age of 18 because of the content (I know because I read it at 13-14).

[Jay]

Heh...things have not changed all that much. Only the method of deception has changed.


Yes now they can deceive all men at once over the television. You are right, the more things change, the more they stay the same.

[AreYouReady?]

Yes now they can deceive all men at once over the television. You are right, the more things change, the more they stay the same.

:thumbsup


and I have seen some of the local church leadership look up to these tee vee preachers to be their mentors. They try to pattern their church to be just like them. There was one church here that brought in men to preach from the Brownsville "Revival". <shudder>

[Jay]

:thumbsup


and I have seen some of the local church leadership look up to these tee vee preachers to be their mentors. They try to pattern their church to be just like them. There was one church here that brought in men to preach from the Brownsville "Revival". <shudder>


You simply must elaborate on this topic some more as I am interested. I have no use for TV style preaching and antics either. They have no place. (Time to go eat.)

[AreYouReady?]

Please be aware that when I am talking about "local churches" it does not mean UPC or any other Oneness assemblies. They know different.

[Jay]

Please be aware that when I am talking about "local churches" it does not mean UPC or any other Oneness assemblies. They know different.



Correction, they should know better, but there are those who are so enamored by the 'results' of the television preachers that they happily follow in their steps.

[houston]

Correction, they should know better, but there are those who are so enamored by the 'results' of the television preachers that they happily follow in their steps.

:foottap

[Hoovie]

Yo Jay, is your church not still pastored by a UPC minister?

[houston]

not still...

[Hoovie]

not still...

:foottap

[crakjak]

T2W, I understand and was not trying to start an argument. I felt that each of those points raised would need to be addressed separately, especially considering that during this same era there were people who traveled pretending to be preachers of the Gospel, but were actually stealing and lying to the people with lying wonders. Many times these people were not brought to justice as they skipped out just ahead of the mob (Mark Twain depicts just such a scene in Huckleberry Finn).

Also as most of her abuse occurred in a foreign country, she would not have had the recourse possible in the United States. This was also a time when Italy and Spain were more Catholic than secular. I do not remember where she was held, but it was obvious that there was a very strong cultic influence on the nuns in the cloister.

We had a cloistered convent that had been closed withing a few hours drive of us, when we lived in Kansas. One of the ladies of the church had visited it several years before, and when the pastor of the church promoted Sis. Charlotte's book, reported that she had seen very similar things remaining from the defunct cloister there.

As to how they get away with it? How was it that Gacy, BTK, the Zodiac, and other horrible serial killers go for years and kill unknown numbers of people without being caught? How do the perpetrators of domestic violence escape from justice?

The answer to every single question is the same. The air or respectability provides them cover to hide the darkness inside their souls. Sometimes they are so well hid that any who report them are not believed until it is too late. At that time there are questions asked as to why no one knew or believed. If one looks at the RCC with the same vision, we are asking the same questions that we do when confronted by abuse or murder.

To quote Charlotte: "...you would not believe what is done...under the cloak of religion..."

[crakjak]

Than just on your word I am more likely to find her believeable. Her book was very surreal and not very convincing, sorry.

I have not seen nor read the book, but I heard with my own ears, from Charlotte's own mouth, her story in full, two different times. Her love for the Lord and her sincerity was extremely evident in person, I cannot speak for the book.

I believe you are sincere in your opinion, the story is extremely gruesome and painful to hear. I listened to some of the tapes of her speaking many years later and it was so painful that I could not continue to listen. Had I not meet her, seen and heard her speak, I very well might be skeptical.

[Falla39]

Isaiah 61:1
The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound

Luke 4:18
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

Heb. 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and forever”.

Sis. Charlotte escaped, not once, but twice from the convent which was her "prison" for 23 yrs. Her dear Methodist neighbor had told her, "Charlotte, I am going to pray every day until God delivers you from that place". After Charlotte escaped that dear neighbor told her she HAD prayed for her every day. God sees the heart and knows those who will hear His Voice, after HE has set them free.
No doubt Charlotte was the "voice crying in the wilderness", that God chose for this deliverance. And tell it she did.

Reminds me of my dear paternal grandmother, a devout Bible reading, praying Methodist, who lay dying of typhoid fever in 1926. The doctor told her husband she was dying, indicated by the blue on her feet and legs. This young mother of three small children breathed a sincere prayer, "LORD, IF YOU would see fit, let me live to raise my three children". She lapsed into a coma. She awoke the next evening, her fever had broke, she was hungry and thirsty. Not only did she live to raise her three children (Dad was 8 when the dr said she was dying). she lived to see our first grandson born. She died in 1984, 20 days before her 87th birthday.

God didn't just let her live, but she was the one, who GOD chose to lead (5 generations of her family to Apostolic Pentecostal Truth. The 6th generation has begun.) GOD didn't just deliver her from death to continue on in her religious tradition. He brought her out of darkness into His Marvelous LIGHT, which were not a people, but are now the people of GOD.

Is it a wonder why I believe Charlotte's story. I had heard my grandmother and her son, our late father, relate the story many, many times.
Not only Charlotte and Lizzie Blakey, but could it be that they were of those which was liken unto those spoken of in Rev.7: 13,14.

And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. (Didn't say THE great tribulation. Jesus told his disciples that in this world they would have tribulation (again it does not say THE great tribulation). But Jesus told them to be of GOOD CHEER, for HE had overcome the world. So they could too.

Rev.12:11
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

And let us not forget Heb.11:32-40

32 And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:

33 Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions.

34 Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.

35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:

37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;

38 (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.

39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect. (The whole 11th chapter of Hebrews is powerful!)

Falla39

[Jay]

:foottap

:p

Yo Jay, is your church not still pastored by a UPC minister?

Nope, we switched affiliations in 2008. We are now WPF. However, we have maintained fellowship with some who are still in the UPC.

[mfblume]

Charlotte used to take aside the women in her meetings after her testimony and show them the scars all over her back from the whipping she received as described in her testimony.

[Jay]

I checked the link that Sis. Falla had posted, and in the comments I saw that you had her testimony posted on youtube. Is that still there?

[Steve Epley]

I was a impessionable child when I heard her and I can vividly remember her story. I have NO doubt it was real.

[mfblume]

I checked the link that Sis. Falla had posted, and in the comments I saw that you had her testimony posted on youtube. Is that still there?

Yes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41zJrPKlwg4

PART 1

[Jay]

Thank you very much. I intend to listen at my first available oportunity.

[Falla39]

This thread had gone to the second page. I wondered if the thread had died. Then I looked at a record I had jotted down, showing the date and how many responses and then how many VIEWS. On 4-3-12(Tues) at 7:38 in the evening, there was 157 responses and 5680 views.
This morning (Fri., 4-6-12) there are 163 responses and 5896. Although the responses have remained at 163 since Wed. eve (4-4-12), the VIEWS has risen to 216. Which evidently means that although people have quit saying anything, they have still continued to VIEW! NO, this thread hasn't died at all! lol

Falla39

[Titus2woman]

This thread had gone to the second page. I wondered if the thread had died. Then I looked at a record I had jotted down, showing the date and how many responses and then how many VIEWS. On 4-3-12(Tues) at 7:38 in the evening, there was 157 responses and 5680 views.
This morning (Fri., 4-6-12) there are 163 responses and 5896. Although the responses have remained at 163 since Wed. eve (4-4-12), the VIEWS has risen to 216. Which evidently means that although people have quit saying anything, they have still continued to VIEW! NO, this thread hasn't died at all! lol

Falla39

Wow I wish I had that kind of time ;)

[Falla39]

Wow I wish I had that kind of time ;)

LOL! Titus2woman,
It just takes a few moments "from time to time". And of
course it possibly would depend upon how much interest
one had in a subject.

Blessings,

Falla39

[Falla39]

This thread had gone to the second page. I wondered if the thread had died. Then I looked at a record I had jotted down, showing the date and how many responses and then how many VIEWS. On 4-3-12(Tues) at 7:38 in the evening, there was 157 responses and 5680 views.
This morning (Fri., 4-6-12) there are 163 responses and 5896. Although the responses have remained at 163 since Wed. eve (4-4-12), the VIEWS has risen to 216. Which evidently means that although people have quit saying anything, they have still continued to VIEW! NO, this thread hasn't died at all! lol

Falla39

the views had risen BY 216 views.

[Timmy]

the views had risen BY 216 views.

It's interesting, too, that the ratio of views to posts is much higher than most threads. It's usually in the ballpark of 10 to 1, but this one is 5,920 to 167, or about 35:1. This happens sometimes with the more controversial topics. ;)

[Jay]

It's interesting, too, that the ratio of views to posts is much higher than most threads. It's usually in the ballpark of 10 to 1, but this one is 5,920 to 167, or about 35:1. This happens sometimes with the more controversial topics. ;)


I have seen that myself. It would seem to indicate that our more controversial threads are also the more popular. It could also be that more of us are spending time reading those threads to build our arguments and thereby extend the life of the thread.

[Timmy]

I have seen that myself. It would seem to indicate that our more controversial threads are also the more popular. It could also be that more of us are spending time reading those threads to build our arguments and thereby extend the life of the thread.

Yes, but I bet, also, more lurkers are attracted to it from googling something. They may tend to read, without joining and commenting.

Isn't that right, LURKERS?! :)

[Timmy]

There are two guests in this thread right now!

[Timmy]

BTW, lurkers, have you seen "Timmy Talk (http://apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=25404)"? (View-to-post ratio of 37:1 :lol)

[Jay]

BTW, lurkers, have you seen "Timmy Talk (http://apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=25404)"? (View-to-post ratio of 37:1 :lol)


Timmy, thy name is Shameless.:foottap

[houston]

most hits via a webcrawler

[Jay]

Yes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41zJrPKlwg4

PART 1


I deeply appreciate the link. I have been all night listening to her testimony. It brought to mind a recent thread in which the issue of healings and miracles were discussed. Truly she suffered much, but she also saw the power and majesty of God. God grant us all such grace as Sis. Charlotte displayed.

[Falla39]

This morning (Fri., 4-6-12) there are 163 responses and 5896 to
this thread.
Sun. night 11:21 pm, the total responses is 175 and views 6178.
While there have not been a lot of additional responses, there is
still quite a bit of viewing. Quite interesting!

Falla39

[Falla39]

Mon. Night, 4-9-2012, 11:07 PM
Responses 176, Views 6321.

[houston]

Every time you view the thread after a knew post counts as a "view."

[Brad Murphy]

If anyone wants an update on the Bro. Murphy mentioned on page 5 or 6 of this thread (which was a couple of years ago), please message me privately, my dad asked me to post this as he reads but doesn't have an account. Bro. Murphy, the cook from TBC was my grandfather.

[hawks-cry]

If anyone wants an update on the Bro. Murphy mentioned on page 5 or 6 of this thread (which was a couple of years ago), please message me privately, my dad asked me to post this as he reads but doesn't have an account. Bro. Murphy, the cook from TBC was my grandfather.
I sent you a PM,...
and I will have to really focus and try to remember stuff from that time and place. A lot has happened in the years since the 60's,..and the details get a bit blurred. But I certainly do remember how very nice your granddad was! I remember a little of the stories he told about himself,...and when he was studying for the priesthood. He said they would make him go without food for days on end,...and he would have to lie prone, and motionless on the floor for hours to prove his disipline to God and the order. He said that is the very reason he LOVED to cook,....as he always remembered the feeling of being so very hungry all the time.

[jen4yeshua]

Remember Sister Charlotte, the ex-nun who testified of being tortured in the Carmelite convent? I helped publish a book about her life story, FROM CONVENT TO PENTECOST, and was privileged to obtain many pics of Charlotte and a series of cassette tapes of her testmony.

Here is the first part of a 5 night series of audio recordings on my youtube channel. VERY RARE recording.

Note her emphasis on JESUS' NAME BAPTISM!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41zJrPKlwg4

Thank you for sharing these. I saw a youtube recording of Sister Charlotte's tesyimony a while ago but didn't realise that she was an apostolic. I will watch this when I have time to view on the PC without interruption.

[jen4yeshua]

BTW, lurkers, have you seen "Timmy Talk (http://apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=25404)"? (View-to-post ratio of 37:1 :lol)

:smack

[Timmy]

:smack

Now it's 48! :lol

[Miss Scarlett]

It was horrifying, and fascinating at the same time.

I read her book, then wished that I hadn't done so. :girlytantrum

[Whole Hearted]

I have read her book through three times. Would love to have heard her in person.

[jen4yeshua]

Now it's 48! :lol

:blah:heeheehee

[jacko]

Charlotte Keckler was a fraud and a professional liar as the following data proves beyond a doubt.

Charlotte Edna Keckler was born Rhoda Edna Cackler April 12th 1898 in Lucas Co. Iowa to her parents William Henry Cackler & Cora Belle Triggs. Her parents married April 18th 1888 in Spencer, Clay, Iowa and they had 9 children, four boys & five girls, Charlotte ( Rhoda) was the fifth in line. Charlotte was named after her paternal grandmother who was Rhoda Charlotte Porter and used her grandmother’s second name for her fictitious name along with a corrupted version of her family name.

The family was definitely not catholic as Charlotte’s grandmother divorced her husband, and Charlotte’s grandfather’s brother also divorced and remarried. Apparently Charlotte’s grandparents on both sides moved to Lucas Co. to settle it. They were of some Protestant denomination, perhaps Lutherans? So all her rant of “I was reared in a devout Roman Catholic home” is completely false. If Charlotte had been reared a catholic she would know perfectly well that the teachings she declares are catholic as regards telling lies and robbing up to $40 are totally false and a medieval invention by Protestant Churches to discredit the Catholic Church.

William, Cora and their first five children (Charlotte aged 2) were living in Doyle Township Hopeville town, Clarke, Iowa on the 1900 census.

By 1910 they had moved to Wolf River, Doniphan, Kansas. The next two children after Charlotte were born in Missouri and the last two were born in Kansas. (Charlotte is age 12 on this census).
On the 1920 census the family is at Hiawatha, Brown, Kansas, and Charlotte is 21. The family name is miss transcribed as Cacler.

In 1925 according to Kansas State census Charlotte is still in Kansas.

The 1930 census finds her parents and her youngest sibling in Sabetha, Nemaha, Kansas.
And Charlotte was in Hiawatha, Brown County, Kansas age 30, should be 32 in 1930! working at a hospital and as a bookkeeper.

So how does this lady manage to be with her parents until 1925 and at the same time declares she had been locked away in a convent since 1910 With difficulty I would think!

According to the 1940 census, Charlotte was living in Moline, Rock Island, Illinois in 1935.

The following is the information on her 1940 census record and her name is Rhoda C. Keckler, this is the first reference to having changed her surname.
She was lodging and lived at 19th Street, Moline, Rock Island, Illinois
High school 4th year, nurse, age 34, (42 would be correct) why did she lie about her age?

Her Uncle John Cackler lived in Moline ward 4, Rock Island, Ill. On the 1920 & 1930 census. This town was 400 miles from Sabetha, Nemaha, where Charlotte's’ father lived.

When her eldest brother died in 1975 Charlotte was named as Miss Rhoda Kackler and was in Napa California. He was a member of the Christian Church.

It is clear from all this data that Charlotte never left the USA for any length of time and was never locked away in a convent.

This guy claims “I helped publish the book Charlotte wrote, FROM CONVENT TO PENTECOST. She was in a convent in Quebec, Canada. Charlotte WAS a Carmelite nun. She would not say it was in Canada during her testimony. But it was.”
Sorry to say the first Carmelite convent in Quebec, Canada was founded from USA in 1877 and only lasted until 1877 due to lack of numbers and revenue. The sisters returned to USA. The second attempt was made in 1951 and was a success, so that couldn't be true!

[Disciple4life]

I believe her, but I get all my information about the Catholic Church from Chick tracts! :heeheehee

[crakjak]

Charlotte Keckler was a fraud and a professional liar as the following data proves beyond a doubt.

Charlotte Edna Keckler was born Rhoda Edna Cackler April 12th 1898 in Lucas Co. Iowa to her parents William Henry Cackler & Cora Belle Triggs. Her parents married April 18th 1888 in Spencer, Clay, Iowa and they had 9 children, four boys & five girls, Charlotte ( Rhoda) was the fifth in line. Charlotte was named after her paternal grandmother who was Rhoda Charlotte Porter and used her grandmother’s second name for her fictitious name along with a corrupted version of her family name.

The family was definitely not catholic as Charlotte’s grandmother divorced her husband, and Charlotte’s grandfather’s brother also divorced and remarried. Apparently Charlotte’s grandparents on both sides moved to Lucas Co. to settle it. They were of some Protestant denomination, perhaps Lutherans? So all her rant of “I was reared in a devout Roman Catholic home” is completely false. If Charlotte had been reared a catholic she would know perfectly well that the teachings she declares are catholic as regards telling lies and robbing up to $40 are totally false and a medieval invention by Protestant Churches to discredit the Catholic Church.

William, Cora and their first five children (Charlotte aged 2) were living in Doyle Township Hopeville town, Clarke, Iowa on the 1900 census.

By 1910 they had moved to Wolf River, Doniphan, Kansas. The next two children after Charlotte were born in Missouri and the last two were born in Kansas. (Charlotte is age 12 on this census).
On the 1920 census the family is at Hiawatha, Brown, Kansas, and Charlotte is 21. The family name is miss transcribed as Cacler.

In 1925 according to Kansas State census Charlotte is still in Kansas.

The 1930 census finds her parents and her youngest sibling in Sabetha, Nemaha, Kansas.
And Charlotte was in Hiawatha, Brown County, Kansas age 30, should be 32 in 1930! working at a hospital and as a bookkeeper.

So how does this lady manage to be with her parents until 1925 and at the same time declares she had been locked away in a convent since 1910 With difficulty I would think!

According to the 1940 census, Charlotte was living in Moline, Rock Island, Illinois in 1935.

The following is the information on her 1940 census record and her name is Rhoda C. Keckler, this is the first reference to having changed her surname.
She was lodging and lived at 19th Street, Moline, Rock Island, Illinois
High school 4th year, nurse, age 34, (42 would be correct) why did she lie about her age?

Her Uncle John Cackler lived in Moline ward 4, Rock Island, Ill. On the 1920 & 1930 census. This town was 400 miles from Sabetha, Nemaha, where Charlotte's’ father lived.

When her eldest brother died in 1975 Charlotte was named as Miss Rhoda Kackler and was in Napa California. He was a member of the Christian Church.

It is clear from all this data that Charlotte never left the USA for any length of time and was never locked away in a convent.

This guy claims “I helped publish the book Charlotte wrote, FROM CONVENT TO PENTECOST. She was in a convent in Quebec, Canada. Charlotte WAS a Carmelite nun. She would not say it was in Canada during her testimony. But it was.”
Sorry to say the first Carmelite convent in Quebec, Canada was founded from USA in 1877 and only lasted until 1877 due to lack of numbers and revenue. The sisters returned to USA. The second attempt was made in 1951 and was a success, so that couldn't be true!

Jacko, from whence have you come??? One POST? How about reference and sources to prove your claims??

[ILG]

Having come from a Catholic family and having had an aunt who was a nun, I would really like to know if this is true or not.

[Sister Alvear]

It is true as far as I know...I know people that knew her very close...I think Brother Blume had close connections in some way also...

[Praxeas]

Charlotte Keckler was a fraud and a professional liar as the following data proves beyond a doubt.

Charlotte Edna Keckler was born Rhoda Edna Cackler April 12th 1898 in Lucas Co. Iowa to her parents William Henry Cackler & Cora Belle Triggs. Her parents married April 18th 1888 in Spencer, Clay, Iowa and they had 9 children, four boys & five girls, Charlotte ( Rhoda) was the fifth in line. Charlotte was named after her paternal grandmother who was Rhoda Charlotte Porter and used her grandmother’s second name for her fictitious name along with a corrupted version of her family name.

The family was definitely not catholic as Charlotte’s grandmother divorced her husband, and Charlotte’s grandfather’s brother also divorced and remarried. Apparently Charlotte’s grandparents on both sides moved to Lucas Co. to settle it. They were of some Protestant denomination, perhaps Lutherans? So all her rant of “I was reared in a devout Roman Catholic home” is completely false. If Charlotte had been reared a catholic she would know perfectly well that the teachings she declares are catholic as regards telling lies and robbing up to $40 are totally false and a medieval invention by Protestant Churches to discredit the Catholic Church.

William, Cora and their first five children (Charlotte aged 2) were living in Doyle Township Hopeville town, Clarke, Iowa on the 1900 census.

By 1910 they had moved to Wolf River, Doniphan, Kansas. The next two children after Charlotte were born in Missouri and the last two were born in Kansas. (Charlotte is age 12 on this census).
On the 1920 census the family is at Hiawatha, Brown, Kansas, and Charlotte is 21. The family name is miss transcribed as Cacler.

In 1925 according to Kansas State census Charlotte is still in Kansas.

The 1930 census finds her parents and her youngest sibling in Sabetha, Nemaha, Kansas.
And Charlotte was in Hiawatha, Brown County, Kansas age 30, should be 32 in 1930! working at a hospital and as a bookkeeper.

So how does this lady manage to be with her parents until 1925 and at the same time declares she had been locked away in a convent since 1910 With difficulty I would think!

According to the 1940 census, Charlotte was living in Moline, Rock Island, Illinois in 1935.

The following is the information on her 1940 census record and her name is Rhoda C. Keckler, this is the first reference to having changed her surname.
She was lodging and lived at 19th Street, Moline, Rock Island, Illinois
High school 4th year, nurse, age 34, (42 would be correct) why did she lie about her age?

Her Uncle John Cackler lived in Moline ward 4, Rock Island, Ill. On the 1920 & 1930 census. This town was 400 miles from Sabetha, Nemaha, where Charlotte's’ father lived.

When her eldest brother died in 1975 Charlotte was named as Miss Rhoda Kackler and was in Napa California. He was a member of the Christian Church.

It is clear from all this data that Charlotte never left the USA for any length of time and was never locked away in a convent.

This guy claims “I helped publish the book Charlotte wrote, FROM CONVENT TO PENTECOST. She was in a convent in Quebec, Canada. Charlotte WAS a Carmelite nun. She would not say it was in Canada during her testimony. But it was.”
Sorry to say the first Carmelite convent in Quebec, Canada was founded from USA in 1877 and only lasted until 1877 due to lack of numbers and revenue. The sisters returned to USA. The second attempt was made in 1951 and was a success, so that couldn't be true!
Where are you getting this info?

[KeptByTheWord]

The Catholic church put out all kind of information to try to say this never happened. Without seeing the actual census records, there is no way to know for sure, if this guy has any credible information or not.

[jacko]

All this research is my own and if anyone should wish to verify it all they have to do is go on the family research sites such as ancestry and family search and look up the census records mentioned in my post.

What in my post makes you presume I'm a catholic and trying to cover up for the Catholic church?

In fact I believe absolutely in honesty in the media and if a story just doesn't ring true, independent to what human society it belong to, in honour of honesty it should be thoroughly investigated, don't you think so?

I would be very happy to hear on this forum from anyone who can prove my research wrong, I would have no problem whatsoever in stepping down and admitting I was wrong. Thank you.

[Sister Alvear]

I would say contact pastor blume

[aegsm76]

All this research is my own and if anyone should wish to verify it all they have to do is go on the family research sites such as ancestry and family search and look up the census records mentioned in my post.

What in my post makes you presume I'm a catholic and trying to cover up for the Catholic church?

In fact I believe absolutely in honesty in the media and if a story just doesn't ring true, independent to what human society it belong to, in honour of honesty it should be thoroughly investigated, don't you think so?

I would be very happy to hear on this forum from anyone who can prove my research wrong, I would have no problem whatsoever in stepping down and admitting I was wrong. Thank you.

Can you post your links where you found this info?

[Disciple4life]

Wow!!! I tried to listen to the video but the audio was too bad. So I found this on youtube and it is much better audio quality.
I listened for about an hour.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_4ZytFF-NM

[jacko]

From familysearch.org

Parent's marriage

Wm. H. Cackler, "Iowa, County Marriages, 1838-1934"
Name: Wm. H. Cackler
Titles and Terms:
Event Type: Marriage
Event Date: 18 Apr 1888
Event Place: Spencer, Clay, Iowa, United States
Age:
Birth Year (Estimated):
Birthplace:
Father's Name:
Father's Titles and Terms:
Mother's Name:
Mother's Titles and Terms:
Spouse's Name: Cora Belle Triggs

Spouse's Titles and Terms:
Spouse's Birth Year (Estimated):
Spouse's Birthplace:
Spouse's Father's Name:
Spouse's Father's Titles and Terms:
Spouse's Mother's Name:
Spouse's Mother's Titles and Terms:
Reference ID: item 1 p 165
GS Film Number: 1435879

Digital Folder Number: 004312787

1900 Census
William Cackler, "United States Census, 1900"
Name: William Cackler
Titles and Terms:
Event Type: Census
Event Year: 1900
Event Place: Doyle Township Hopeville town, Clarke, Iowa, United States
District: 29
Gender: Male
Age: 33
Marital Status: Married
Race: White
Race (Original): W
Relationship to Head of Household: Head
Relationship to Head of Household (Original): Head
Number of Living Children:
Years Married: 12
Birth Date: Jan 1867
Birthplace: Iowa
Marriage Year (Estimated): 1888
Immigration Year:
Father's Birthplace: Illinois
Mother's Birthplace: Pennsylvania
Mother of how many children:
Sheet Number and Letter: 5B
Household ID: 109
Line Number: 58
Affiliate Name: The U.S. National Archives and Records Administration (NARA)
Affiliate Publication Number: T623
GS Film Number: 1240424

Digital Folder Number: 004120102

Image Number: 00260
Household Gender Age Birthplace
Head William Cackler M 33 Iowa
Wife Cora B Cackler
F 33 Iowa
Son Clarence Cackler
M 13 Iowa
Son Clinton Cackler
M 10 Iowa
Daughter Liddie Cackler
F 7 Iowa
Son Wayne Cackler
M 5 Iowa
Daughter Endna Cackler (Charlotte)
F 2 Iowa

Endna Cackler in household of William Cackler, "United States Census, 1900"
Name: Endna Cackler
Titles and Terms:
Event Type: Census
Event Year: 1900
Event Place: Doyle Township Hopeville town, Clarke, Iowa, United States
District: 29
Gender: Female
Age: 2
Marital Status: Single
Race: White
Race (Original): W
Relationship to Head of Household: Daughter
Relationship to Head of Household (Original): Daughter
Number of Living Children:
Years Married:
Birth Date: Apr 1898
Birthplace: Iowa

1910 census
Rhodie Cackler in household of William Cackler, "United States Census, 1910"
Name: Rhodie Cackler
Titles and Terms:
Event Type: Census
Event Year: 1910
Event Place: Wolf River, Doniphan, Kansas, United States
District: 47
Gender: Female
Age: 12
Marital Status: Single
Race: White
Race (Original): White
Relationship to Head of Household: Daughter
Relationship to Head of Household (Original): Daughter
Birth Year (Estimated): 1898
Birthplace: Iowa
Immigration Year:
Father's Birthplace: Iowa
Mother's Birthplace: Iowa
Sheet Number and Letter: 3B
Household ID: 70
Line Number:
Affiliate Name: The U.S. National Archives and Records Administration (NARA)
Affiliate Publication Number: M1283
GS Film number: 1374450

Digital Folder Number: 004328332

Image Number: 00896
Household Gender Age Birthplace
Head William Cackler
M 45 Iowa
Wife Cora Belle Cackler
F 44 Iowa
Son Clinton Henry Cackler
M 18 Iowa
Daughter Lydia Ellen Cackler
F 16 Iowa
Son Wayne Raymond Cackler
M 14 Iowa
Daughter Rhodie Cackler F 12 Iowa

1920 Census

Rhoda Cacler in household of Wm Cacler, "United States Census, 1920"
Name: Rhoda Cacler (Charlotte)
Titles and Terms:
Event Type: Census
Event Year: 1920
Event Place: Hiawatha, Brown, Kansas, United States
District: 22
Gender: Female
Age: 21
Marital Status: Single
Race: White
Race (Original): White
Can Read:
Can Write:
Relationship to Head of Household: Daughter
Relationship to Head of Household (Original): Daughter
Own or Rent:
Birth Year (Estimated): 1899
Birthplace: Iowa
Immigration Year:
Father's Birthplace: Iowa
Mother's Birthplace: Iowa
Sheet Number and Letter: 4A
Household ID: 97
Line Number: 43
Affiliate Name: The U.S. National Archives and Records Administration (NARA)
Affiliate Publication Number: T625
GS Film number: 1820525

Digital Folder Number: 004300842

Image Number: 00581
Household Gender Age Birthplace
Head Wm Cacler
M 51 Iowa
Wife Cora Cacler
F 50 Iowa
Daughter Rhoda Cacler F 21 Iowa
Daughter Bessie Cacler
F 20 Iowa
Daughter Elva Cacler
F 17 Missouri
Daughter Lena Cacler
F 14 Kansas
Son Chester Cacler
M 8 Kansas

From ancestry
1Rhoda C. Keckler 1940 Census C Keckler
Name: Rhoda C Keckler
Age: 34
Estimated birth year: abt 1906
Gender: Female
Race: White
Birthplace: Kansas
Marital Status: Single
Relation to Head of House: Lodger
Home in 1940: Rock Island, Rock Island, Illinois
Map of Home in 1940: View Map

Street: 19th Street
Inferred Residence in 1935: Moline, Illinois
Residence in 1935: Moline, Illinois
Resident on farm in 1935: No
Sheet Number: 10B
Occupation: Nurse
Attended School or College: No
Highest Grade Completed: High School, 4th year
Hours Worked Week Prior to Census: 50
Class of Worker: Wage or salary worker in private work
Weeks Worked in 1939: 52
Income: 400
Income Other Sources: No
Neighbors: View others on page

Household Members: Name Age
Minnie C Kieley
75
Rhoda C Keckler
34
Emmett L Hartley
33
Robert F Brown
37


More of this another day as I didn´t copy all the records to my pc just took notes so will have to look for them again.

[jacko]

This is taken from Charlotte's account,

“As the years dragged by I learned to use a hammer, saw, shovel and anything else a man normally does. We worked very hard, performing heavy manual labor, digging out underground rooms and tunnels, building walls, plastering, etc. Often we were two, three or four miles back in the tunnels. Sometimes we wondered if we even had voices because of the strict rule of silence, and would speak in whispers to each other. The very next morning Mother Superior would call the offenders out and say, "You are going to do penance." We wondered how she could have heard us. One day we learned that all thirty-five miles of tunnel under the convent were wired so she could hear every whisper.”

This passage (along some others that will be mentioned in due course) in Charlotte’s story is what really got under my skin and set off all the alarms that this story can´t be true and gave me the motivation to investigate her whole story. Can someone please explain how on earth young girls and women with presumable a very limited education would have the know-how to dig out and build tunnels for miles underground, without them caving in and provide them with ventilation and on top of that bug the whole place, something that wasn’t invented until 1941? And nothing less than Thirty-five miles, a feat that not even the best engineers in the world would have been able to accomplish without all their studies and equipment! Besides, lets presume the convent would have at most an acre or two of land, keep in mind, one square mile = 640 acres (260ha) for what purpose would they want or need 35 miles?
This is so far-fetched one would have to be pretty crazy to swallow this fat fish!

[Sister Alvear]

Have you ever talked with Bro. Blume?

[Sister Alvear]

You must not be aquianted with the Catholic church....I live in a very Catholic country...I do not doubt her story at all.

[Sister Alvear]

I have sent an e mail to Pastor Blume and maybe he can come over and give some more information...

[Sweet Pea]

How do you make this leap: that Endna Cackler = (Charlotte)
and this one: Rhoda Cacler = (Charlotte)

:foottap

[mfblume]

Hi all, I was informed of the discussion continuing. The information I gave was given to me. I have no personal way to prove it all, but I never made any of it up. I was told this by Sis Nilah who traveled with Charlotte for 14 years.

[mfblume]

This is taken from Charlotte's account,

“As the years dragged by I learned to use a hammer, saw, shovel and anything else a man normally does. We worked very hard, performing heavy manual labor, digging out underground rooms and tunnels, building walls, plastering, etc. Often we were two, three or four miles back in the tunnels. Sometimes we wondered if we even had voices because of the strict rule of silence, and would speak in whispers to each other. The very next morning Mother Superior would call the offenders out and say, "You are going to do penance." We wondered how she could have heard us. One day we learned that all thirty-five miles of tunnel under the convent were wired so she could hear every whisper.”

This passage (along some others that will be mentioned in due course) in Charlotte’s story is what really got under my skin and set off all the alarms that this story can´t be true and gave me the motivation to investigate her whole story. Can someone please explain how on earth young girls and women with presumable a very limited education would have the know-how to dig out and build tunnels for miles underground, without them caving in and provide them with ventilation and on top of that bug the whole place, something that wasn’t invented until 1941? And nothing less than Thirty-five miles, a feat that not even the best engineers in the world would have been able to accomplish without all their studies and equipment! Besides, lets presume the convent would have at most an acre or two of land, keep in mind, one square mile = 640 acres (260ha) for what purpose would they want or need 35 miles?
This is so far-fetched one would have to be pretty crazy to swallow this fat fish!

Which account did you get that from again?

[Praxeas]

From familysearch.org

Parent's marriage

Wm. H. Cackler, "Iowa, County Marriages, 1838-1934"
Name: Wm. H. Cackler
Titles and Terms:
Event Type: Marriage
Event Date: 18 Apr 1888
Event Place: Spencer, Clay, Iowa, United States
Age:
Birth Year (Estimated):
Birthplace:
Father's Name:
Father's Titles and Terms:
Mother's Name:
Mother's Titles and Terms:
Spouse's Name: Cora Belle Triggs

Spouse's Titles and Terms:
Spouse's Birth Year (Estimated):
Spouse's Birthplace:
Spouse's Father's Name:
Spouse's Father's Titles and Terms:
Spouse's Mother's Name:
Spouse's Mother's Titles and Terms:
Reference ID: item 1 p 165
GS Film Number: 1435879

Digital Folder Number: 004312787

1900 Census
William Cackler, "United States Census, 1900"
Name: William Cackler
Titles and Terms:
Event Type: Census
Event Year: 1900
Event Place: Doyle Township Hopeville town, Clarke, Iowa, United States
District: 29
Gender: Male
Age: 33
Marital Status: Married
Race: White
Race (Original): W
Relationship to Head of Household: Head
Relationship to Head of Household (Original): Head
Number of Living Children:
Years Married: 12
Birth Date: Jan 1867
Birthplace: Iowa
Marriage Year (Estimated): 1888
Immigration Year:
Father's Birthplace: Illinois
Mother's Birthplace: Pennsylvania
Mother of how many children:
Sheet Number and Letter: 5B
Household ID: 109
Line Number: 58
Affiliate Name: The U.S. National Archives and Records Administration (NARA)
Affiliate Publication Number: T623
GS Film Number: 1240424

Digital Folder Number: 004120102

Image Number: 00260
Household Gender Age Birthplace
Head William Cackler M 33 Iowa
Wife Cora B Cackler
F 33 Iowa
Son Clarence Cackler
M 13 Iowa
Son Clinton Cackler
M 10 Iowa
Daughter Liddie Cackler
F 7 Iowa
Son Wayne Cackler
M 5 Iowa
Daughter Endna Cackler (Charlotte)
F 2 Iowa

Endna Cackler in household of William Cackler, "United States Census, 1900"
Name: Endna Cackler
Titles and Terms:
Event Type: Census
Event Year: 1900
Event Place: Doyle Township Hopeville town, Clarke, Iowa, United States
District: 29
Gender: Female
Age: 2
Marital Status: Single
Race: White
Race (Original): W
Relationship to Head of Household: Daughter
Relationship to Head of Household (Original): Daughter
Number of Living Children:
Years Married:
Birth Date: Apr 1898
Birthplace: Iowa

1910 census
Rhodie Cackler in household of William Cackler, "United States Census, 1910"
Name: Rhodie Cackler
Titles and Terms:
Event Type: Census
Event Year: 1910
Event Place: Wolf River, Doniphan, Kansas, United States
District: 47
Gender: Female
Age: 12
Marital Status: Single
Race: White
Race (Original): White
Relationship to Head of Household: Daughter
Relationship to Head of Household (Original): Daughter
Birth Year (Estimated): 1898
Birthplace: Iowa
Immigration Year:
Father's Birthplace: Iowa
Mother's Birthplace: Iowa
Sheet Number and Letter: 3B
Household ID: 70
Line Number:
Affiliate Name: The U.S. National Archives and Records Administration (NARA)
Affiliate Publication Number: M1283
GS Film number: 1374450

Digital Folder Number: 004328332

Image Number: 00896
Household Gender Age Birthplace
Head William Cackler
M 45 Iowa
Wife Cora Belle Cackler
F 44 Iowa
Son Clinton Henry Cackler
M 18 Iowa
Daughter Lydia Ellen Cackler
F 16 Iowa
Son Wayne Raymond Cackler
M 14 Iowa
Daughter Rhodie Cackler F 12 Iowa

1920 Census

Rhoda Cacler in household of Wm Cacler, "United States Census, 1920"
Name: Rhoda Cacler (Charlotte)
Titles and Terms:
Event Type: Census
Event Year: 1920
Event Place: Hiawatha, Brown, Kansas, United States
District: 22
Gender: Female
Age: 21
Marital Status: Single
Race: White
Race (Original): White
Can Read:
Can Write:
Relationship to Head of Household: Daughter
Relationship to Head of Household (Original): Daughter
Own or Rent:
Birth Year (Estimated): 1899
Birthplace: Iowa
Immigration Year:
Father's Birthplace: Iowa
Mother's Birthplace: Iowa
Sheet Number and Letter: 4A
Household ID: 97
Line Number: 43
Affiliate Name: The U.S. National Archives and Records Administration (NARA)
Affiliate Publication Number: T625
GS Film number: 1820525

Digital Folder Number: 004300842

Image Number: 00581
Household Gender Age Birthplace
Head Wm Cacler
M 51 Iowa
Wife Cora Cacler
F 50 Iowa
Daughter Rhoda Cacler F 21 Iowa
Daughter Bessie Cacler
F 20 Iowa
Daughter Elva Cacler
F 17 Missouri
Daughter Lena Cacler
F 14 Kansas
Son Chester Cacler
M 8 Kansas

From ancestry
1Rhoda C. Keckler 1940 Census C Keckler
Name: Rhoda C Keckler
Age: 34
Estimated birth year: abt 1906
Gender: Female
Race: White
Birthplace: Kansas
Marital Status: Single
Relation to Head of House: Lodger
Home in 1940: Rock Island, Rock Island, Illinois
Map of Home in 1940: View Map

Street: 19th Street
Inferred Residence in 1935: Moline, Illinois
Residence in 1935: Moline, Illinois
Resident on farm in 1935: No
Sheet Number: 10B
Occupation: Nurse
Attended School or College: No
Highest Grade Completed: High School, 4th year
Hours Worked Week Prior to Census: 50
Class of Worker: Wage or salary worker in private work
Weeks Worked in 1939: 52
Income: 400
Income Other Sources: No
Neighbors: View others on page

Household Members: Name Age
Minnie C Kieley
75
Rhoda C Keckler
34
Emmett L Hartley
33
Robert F Brown
37


More of this another day as I didn´t copy all the records to my pc just took notes so will have to look for them again.
Just curious but how do you know that's Charlotte?

[Praxeas]

This is taken from Charlotte's account,

“As the years dragged by I learned to use a hammer, saw, shovel and anything else a man normally does. We worked very hard, performing heavy manual labor, digging out underground rooms and tunnels, building walls, plastering, etc. Often we were two, three or four miles back in the tunnels. Sometimes we wondered if we even had voices because of the strict rule of silence, and would speak in whispers to each other. The very next morning Mother Superior would call the offenders out and say, "You are going to do penance." We wondered how she could have heard us. One day we learned that all thirty-five miles of tunnel under the convent were wired so she could hear every whisper.”

This passage (along some others that will be mentioned in due course) in Charlotte’s story is what really got under my skin and set off all the alarms that this story can´t be true and gave me the motivation to investigate her whole story. Can someone please explain how on earth young girls and women with presumable a very limited education would have the know-how to dig out and build tunnels for miles underground, without them caving in and provide them with ventilation and on top of that bug the whole place, something that wasn’t invented until 1941? And nothing less than Thirty-five miles, a feat that not even the best engineers in the world would have been able to accomplish without all their studies and equipment! Besides, lets presume the convent would have at most an acre or two of land, keep in mind, one square mile = 640 acres (260ha) for what purpose would they want or need 35 miles?
This is so far-fetched one would have to be pretty crazy to swallow this fat fish!
Someone else could have told them how.

What was the date of this excavation?

I think you are mistaken about the ability to dig shafts. Miners have been doing it for years even before 1940

[Praxeas]

How do you make this leap: that Endna Cackler = (Charlotte)
and this one: Rhoda Cacler = (Charlotte)

:foottap
I was wondering that

[ILG]

Interesting conversation, everybody!

[Light]

I met Charlotte the first time in Texaco NM. Then again when she came to our church in Calif. It was her practice to have a ladies only night where she would partially disrobe. There was no doubt according to my wife and mother she was beaten very badly as her body was covered with scars.

[jacko]

I was logged in and I had written a long post to answer all your questions but when I went to post I was told I wasn´t logged in so I lost it, I sincerely hope you are not going to cut me off?

Unfortunately I hadn´t saved my post so, if I'm allowed back on this site I will have to leave it for another day.

[jacko]

OK, you want to know how I did my research and how I came to the conclusions that I did!

First of all, I have been doing family research for over 10 years so have acquired some knowledge and experience in this field over time.

The only information I had to go on to begin my research was the data supplied in Charlotte’s death record which I am posting here so everyone can understand what I’m talking about.

https://familysearch.org/‎
Charlotte Keckler
United States Social Security Death Index birth: 12 April 1898
death: September 1983 Napa, California

Given Name Charlotte
Middle Name
Surname Keckler
Name Suffix
Birth Date 12 April 1898
Social Security Number 261-58-5764
State Florida
Last Place of Residence Napa, California
Previous Residence Postal Code 94558
Event Date September 1983
Age 85



Last Name First Name Middle Birth Date Mother Maiden Father Last Sex Birth Place Death Place Residence Death Date SSN Age Post-ems Order
Record
KECKLER CHARLOTTE EDNA 04/12/1898 TRIGGS F IOWA NAPA
09/28/1983 261-58-5764
85 yrs Add



www.ancestry.com

Charlotte Edna Keckler, "California, Death Index, 1940-1997"
Name: Charlotte Edna Keckler
Event Type: Death
Event Date: 28 Sep 1983
Event Place: Napa, California, United States
Birth Date: 12 Apr 1898
Birthplace: Iowa
Gender: Female
Father's Name:
Mother's Name: Triggs

I entered this data in the search engine on every family research site I could find for the USA with no results which coincide with other people’s research who tried to track this lady down. This is exceptionally rare and strange that you get absolutely no returns for neither births, marriages, census, etc.
The golden rule in genealogy is when you get no results with the names you have to branch out into alternative spellings, which I did and no returns again. Then I deleted her first name and that´s where I got the 1900 census which gives April 1898, as birth date and Iowa as birth place which correspond exactly with Charlotte’s death record’s data. Also the first name was Edna and coincides with Charlotte’s second name with an “n” added on.

Then I went on to look for a marriage for a William Cackler & a Cora B. and bingo Cora´s surname was Triggs, once again this squares up with the death record. From there I went on to look for all census with corroborative evidence i.e. parents & children’s names, places of birth and ages that more or less square up as ages on census records are usually very unreliable as most people didn’t know their real age as it was very seldom required back then, I have always found that the age on the census nearest to birth usually gives the correct estimate of birth year!

I am convinced that all this corroborative evidence proves beyond a doubt that Charlotte Keckler & Rhoda Edna Cackler is one and the same person.

From there I was able to go on to further research. Ancestry.com has 17 online family trees with this family in it and you can find more on line family trees if you Google the parent´s names.
I hope I have made myself clear and understandable, if not please don´t hesitate to ask.

[Disciple4life]

Jacko,
Are you Catholic? Or do you work for the Catholic Church in any capacity?

[Disciple4life]

What in my post makes you presume I'm a catholic and trying to cover up for the Catholic church?

Asking a question doesn't answer a question.

[jacko]

No, I am not catholic nor do I have anything to do with the Catholic Church.

However does your question imply that my painstaking and serious research is to be judged by the colour of my skin (so to speak) rather than the merit of the evidence it presents?

That implication probably didn't even enter your head when you wrote it, even so, I’m really glad you asked it because it’s a perfect reflection of the hypocritical political correct society in which we live, (no personal offence to Diciple4life). We are all the unfortunate products of the society we live in which is so clogged up with fog that very often we can’t reason like rational human beings, instead we get carried along by the tide and tend to judge people by the colour of their skin, their race, their church or whatever rather than their personal merits!

My greatest respects to Pastor Blume, he came out straight and said he had no way to prove Charlotte’s story, it takes a bigger man to do that, I take my hat off to you Sir!

If a story is true it should be able to stand up to any scrutiny.

I don`t think it could ever be acceptable for Christians to sell truth for lies nor vice versa and that is what is the whole aim of this discussion, so let’s not get side-tracked.

[Disciple4life]

Jacko,

Thanks for the answer. If you had posted here more than once I probably would not have even asked.

You probably have some questions of your own. I love all people including Catholics. We as Christians are called to love everybody regardless of their skin color or their current walk with God.

All abuse should be looked into. All people who make accusations should be looked into. We should not just believe people because of our own prejudice.

[Sister Alvear]

There are those that say Richard Wurmbrand was a fraud.....but he was not...

[Disciple4life]

I want to know if Alberto Rivera is for real.

[crakjak]

Charlotte Keckler was a fraud and a professional liar as the following data proves beyond a doubt.

Charlotte Edna Keckler was born Rhoda Edna Cackler April 12th 1898 in Lucas Co. Iowa to her parents William Henry Cackler & Cora Belle Triggs. Her parents married April 18th 1888 in Spencer, Clay, Iowa and they had 9 children, four boys & five girls, Charlotte ( Rhoda) was the fifth in line. Charlotte was named after her paternal grandmother who was Rhoda Charlotte Porter and used her grandmother’s second name for her fictitious name along with a corrupted version of her family name.

The family was definitely not catholic as Charlotte’s grandmother divorced her husband, and Charlotte’s grandfather’s brother also divorced and remarried. Apparently Charlotte’s grandparents on both sides moved to Lucas Co. to settle it. They were of some Protestant denomination, perhaps Lutherans? So all her rant of “I was reared in a devout Roman Catholic home” is completely false. If Charlotte had been reared a catholic she would know perfectly well that the teachings she declares are catholic as regards telling lies and robbing up to $40 are totally false and a medieval invention by Protestant Churches to discredit the Catholic Church.

William, Cora and their first five children (Charlotte aged 2) were living in Doyle Township Hopeville town, Clarke, Iowa on the 1900 census.

By 1910 they had moved to Wolf River, Doniphan, Kansas. The next two children after Charlotte were born in Missouri and the last two were born in Kansas. (Charlotte is age 12 on this census).
On the 1920 census the family is at Hiawatha, Brown, Kansas, and Charlotte is 21. The family name is miss transcribed as Cacler.

In 1925 according to Kansas State census Charlotte is still in Kansas.

The 1930 census finds her parents and her youngest sibling in Sabetha, Nemaha, Kansas.
And Charlotte was in Hiawatha, Brown County, Kansas age 30, should be 32 in 1930! working at a hospital and as a bookkeeper.

So how does this lady manage to be with her parents until 1925 and at the same time declares she had been locked away in a convent since 1910 With difficulty I would think!

According to the 1940 census, Charlotte was living in Moline, Rock Island, Illinois in 1935.

The following is the information on her 1940 census record and her name is Rhoda C. Keckler, this is the first reference to having changed her surname.
She was lodging and lived at 19th Street, Moline, Rock Island, Illinois
High school 4th year, nurse, age 34, (42 would be correct) why did she lie about her age?

Her Uncle John Cackler lived in Moline ward 4, Rock Island, Ill. On the 1920 & 1930 census. This town was 400 miles from Sabetha, Nemaha, where Charlotte's’ father lived.

When her eldest brother died in 1975 Charlotte was named as Miss Rhoda Kackler and was in Napa California. He was a member of the Christian Church.

It is clear from all this data that Charlotte never left the USA for any length of time and was never locked away in a convent.

This guy claims “I helped publish the book Charlotte wrote, FROM CONVENT TO PENTECOST. She was in a convent in Quebec, Canada. Charlotte WAS a Carmelite nun. She would not say it was in Canada during her testimony. But it was.”
Sorry to say the first Carmelite convent in Quebec, Canada was founded from USA in 1877 and only lasted until 1877 due to lack of numbers and revenue. The sisters returned to USA. The second attempt was made in 1951 and was a success, so that couldn't be true!

The census may not have picked up that she had gone to the convent, may have still considered her a part of her father's household. Then she did return to her fathers house for a time after her first escape. The information on the census is not the most accurate in the world.

Her facts could have been distorted to some extent due to the context, of pain and suffering.

I don't have scientific evidence, but with other stories that have come out, and then the current abuse by priests, it is not a stretch to believe her story. There was evidence that she had been badly abused in her physical body, at least the ladies agreed that she had.

[mfblume]

I want to know if Alberto Rivera is for real.

Here's where things get interesting. I met Alberto in Toronto just before Charlotte died. Of course we did not know she would die very soon. But I approached him about printing Charlotte's book. I told him that she was alive and well in Napa, CA. He asked where. I only knew it was a senior's home. Anyway, after I said that he got very fidgety. I mentioned a manuscript we had which was FROM CONVENT TO PENTECOST. I wondered if Chick might publish it since Sis Nilah was fearful to get it printed. He said, "A very WELL PREPARED manuscript." I sensed questioning in him as to its authenticity. He wanted nothing to do with it! When I mentioned Sis Nilah had the manuscript, he said priests and nuns are in her church all the time, and that he heard of Nilah's name in the Vatican before he got "saved.". I wound up working with Sis Nilah in Dartmouth, NS, years later for 8 years. Alberto flat-out lied.

He claimed she contacted him before she went missing for one final time after which they figure she was murdered. I actually did not know he claimed Charlotte contacted him before she went missing til years later. No wonder he wanted nothing to do with us since we caught him in a lie.

[Disciple4life]

Thanks for the info Mike. I am a big fan of your books!

[mfblume]

Thanks for the info Mike. I am a big fan of your books!

You're welcome, and thank you for your encouraging word about my books!

[Sister Alvear]

I talked to people last night that KNEW Sister Charolette...I can give you some contact numbers if needed...yes she was real....

[Sister Alvear]

she has kin still alive...

[mfblume]

I heard people say they were in campmeetings with her ministry and she did indeed show the women in a private meeting her back and all the scars on it.

[UnTraditional]

Religion is not holiness. Religion states one must do this or that to be right with God. Holiness is us walking in Christ because of Christ's finished work. Religion kills, but holiness is walking as we should because of real relationship and acceptance of God's unmerited favor.

[Sister Alvear]

jack were are you I want to help you get in contact with people that really knew her and people that are kin to her...

[jacko]

I’m very sorry I haven’t been around as I have been extremely busy and still am, however I thank you all for your input.

Evidently Charlotte did have scars on her back as so many ladies have testified to it so they can’t possible have made it up, nonetheless it doesn’t and can’t prove that she got those scars in a convent.

As has been suggested there could have been an overlap in census records i.e. at home and in the convent but that evidence does not appear to be available, if someone can find it, it would prove her case true. On the lack of other evidence that could support her case we will have to examine and analyse her story carefully for possible incoherences. Can someone please give me the link to Charlotte’s story which you consider the authentic version and I will go through it in small doses and post here accordingly.

What is truly amazing about this story is that the Church she served for so many years haven’t come forward in all these years to provide the evidence to back up this story. This is a very big “WHY”?

Charlotte wasn't afraid in life to travel around for 14 years telling her story and her written story wasn't to be published until after her death so why wasn't that evidence supplied in her published account?

The following is a small example of so many contradictions in Charlotte’s story

“After the vows were signed all of my personal identification was destroyed”.

All of a sudden she had a legal passport to travel abroad, how can we explain that?

“The next step was my initiation and for this I had to go to my convent. They had my passport all signed and tickets ready to ship me out to a foreign country”.


If she has kin who are willing to come forward and speak out, that would be great and presumable they will be able to contribute factual evidence of her case. If real evidence could be supplied I would rest my case immediately, I only look for an honest investigation of this story as I stated earlier.

That Charlotte’s case is proved true or false does not and could not constitute evidence that every other case of torture we have been told about in the Catholic Church or any other Church for that matter is true or false. As in everything in life each and every case must be examined on its own and can only be believed on the weight of the evidence it provides. Unfortunately, we flawed human beings get carried away very quickly with sensationalism.

I will be back as soon as I can.

[Disciple4life]

Jacko,

I find it odd that you come hear and only want to talk about this one thread.

No post on anything else. Hmmm. In fact it is kind of creepy.

In fact I had no Idea that this thread existed until it got bumped. I never heard the story.

You though seem very, very interested almost like you are obsessed.

I am not trying to offend you but I just don't get why you care sooo much about this story.

[Sister Alvear]

Jacko do you want a phone number to call?

[crakjak]

I’m very sorry I haven’t been around as I have been extremely busy and still am, however I thank you all for your input.

Evidently Charlotte did have scars on her back as so many ladies have testified to it so they can’t possible have made it up, nonetheless it doesn’t and can’t prove that she got those scars in a convent.

As has been suggested there could have been an overlap in census records i.e. at home and in the convent but that evidence does not appear to be available, if someone can find it, it would prove her case true. On the lack of other evidence that could support her case we will have to examine and analyse her story carefully for possible incoherences. Can someone please give me the link to Charlotte’s story which you consider the authentic version and I will go through it in small doses and post here accordingly.

What is truly amazing about this story is that the Church she served for so many years haven’t come forward in all these years to provide the evidence to back up this story. This is a very big “WHY”?

Charlotte wasn't afraid in life to travel around for 14 years telling her story and her written story wasn't to be published until after her death so why wasn't that evidence supplied in her published account?

The following is a small example of so many contradictions in Charlotte’s story

“After the vows were signed all of my personal identification was destroyed”.

All of a sudden she had a legal passport to travel abroad, how can we explain that?

“The next step was my initiation and for this I had to go to my convent. They had my passport all signed and tickets ready to ship me out to a foreign country”.


If she has kin who are willing to come forward and speak out, that would be great and presumable they will be able to contribute factual evidence of her case. If real evidence could be supplied I would rest my case immediately, I only look for an honest investigation of this story as I stated earlier.

That Charlotte’s case is proved true or false does not and could not constitute evidence that every other case of torture we have been told about in the Catholic Church or any other Church for that matter is true or false. As in everything in life each and every case must be examined on its own and can only be believed on the weight of the evidence it provides. Unfortunately, we flawed human beings get carried away very quickly with sensationalism.

I will be back as soon as I can.

Yes, she travel very carefully for "fourteen years", she was very cautious as to who she saw and where she went.

An opposing question would be, if her story was false, why did the RCC not file suit for slander???? With it resources you would think that it could shut her down, and where you believe it or not it tried.

Again, you are looking at this case thru the eyes of a very different era. And you are nitpicking. Her identification was taken from her, the RCC had the experience and the resources to provide what ever was necessary for her travel. At the personal level she was de-personalized, she had no voice, no say in where she went or what she had to do.

She was a very strong and smart women, if you talked to her personally, your questions would have been answered. She had a very cruel experience at the hands of the RCC, and she chose to tell that story. You didn't meet her, nor hear her personally, I did, and I believed her and her story. I tried to listen to the tapes later, without her person involved, I could not listen to them.

You have every right to argue against her story, and no one really can answer all your questions, but I believe you are terribly wrong.

She was not flawless, she had been completely broken, twice, but some how she rose out of the ashes to testify against a wicked and cruel human institution. The known history of the RCC has proven over and over that men are terribly flawed. Is every member or leader in the RCC this evil, of course not, I know many folks that are RCC that I respect, but I have no respect for the institutional machine.

[Disciple4life]

The known history of the RCC has proven over and over that men are terribly flawed. Is every member or leader in the RCC this evil, of course not, I know many folks that are RCC that I respect, but I have no respect for the institutional machine.

:thumbsup

[canam]

Why don't this person do some research on b husseio obama or barry whatever in betting they won't

[canam]

Jacko do you want a phone number to call?

Jacko gonzo :)

[jacko]

You say I’m nitpicking from Charlotte’s story, well here are some more examples of serious inconsistencies.

Charlotte states that she had a brother a catholic priest and his name was Chet and lived on the west coast. After been made a priest he was supposed to have lived with his housekeeper for seven years, after that he left the R. church and married her. It appears that priests in the RC have to study at least seven years after high school before they can be ordained, so he would have to be about 25 when made a priest and at least 32 when he married, yet Charlotte’s four brothers were all married before they were 26 years of age. Her youngest brother Chester is the only brother who lived, married and died on the west coast, he moved there after 1935, the other three brothers all lived and died in Kansas. On Chester’s 1940 census record it states he was a labourer, married, high school 4th year and lived in Los Angeles, Ca. He was 26 when he married in 1936 in Los Angeles. As she says her priest brother was Chet, we can only presume she was referring to Chester. This data obviously doesn’t square up!

She also declared that when she returned from the convent all her siblings had been to college except herself, however the census tells us otherwise. The three older brothers had only done grade school on the 1940 census and were all labourers or farm hands. Both Chester and Charlotte did up to 4th year high school.

According to Charlotte, the doctor her father called in to see her after her first escape from the convent was the same Dr. who brought her into the world and he was also her godfather and he could only recognized her by her birth mark. At the same time giving to understand that her parents were living in the same town where she was born only in a different house, yet they had changed town three times since Charlotte was born?

She states her father was a very wealthy man yet he doesn´t appear to have owned his own house on census records and was also a farm hand?

Her mother was senile and totally paralysed and didn't recognize Charlotte when she returned home yet she was able to give orders to her lawyer to leave money to Charlotte when she learned that her father had disinherited her?

She declares, after her Uncle John died, she went on to nurse for three years in a roman catholic hospital, of all places! Was she not afraid that they would ship her back to the convent again given her last experience? I have no doubt I would have run a million miles from anything catholic if I had been through that hell!

I also compared Charlotte’s garb on her on-line picture as a carmelite nun with an online catholic carmelite nun’s picture of the same time period as Charlottes’ and there are very marked differences!

Should I go on?

The Pentecostal church in Napa, Ca. should have been privy to all the background information for Charlotte when she started her ministry in that Church, can they not provide it? I’m sure they would never have allowed anyone to take up a ministry in their church rashly.

I personally could not possible accept and believe a story such as Charlottes without some supporting evidence, it would be very dishonest of me to do so! Gone are the days when people took everything their Pastor said for granted!

When I first heard one of her tapes, I was convinced her story was true like everyone else, I have to admit the emotional impact is huge! I was so upset and horrified that I wanted to see if these guys had been brought to justice. Finding nothing to that effect is what got me reading her on-line accounts and that is when so many fallacies started to emerge in her story.

If this story is true its implications both for the RC church and our Christina Churches more especially for the Pentecostal Church that Charlotte belonged to, are absolutely horrific to say the least. To think that nobody did absolutely nothing to bring civil and criminal charges against the rc church and to rescue the remaining nuns in that hell hole is totally unbelievable and unacceptable as Christians!
Why did nobody do anything? I mean this story is in circulation since 1945 nearly 70 years! In the last two decades, the rc church has undergone huge court cases for abuse etc. of which everyone is aware, why wasn't this case presented?

I have only come across one person on the net who considered taking up Charlotte’s case seriously, a journalist from Alberta, Canada. He/she unfortunately made contact with a Pastor Reckart for backup evidence as his father was supposed to have known Charlotte personally. Wow! what a guy this Pastor must be, instead of providing the evidence required graciously he does nothing but berate and insult the poor guy in a dreadful manner, in my opinion, disgusting and totally unacceptable. You can read the whole exchange on this link.

http://members.shaw.ca/alyzza/Phelps/reckart.html

What Pastor Keckart proved with this behaviour is that he is not worthy of any credibility whatsoever and calls into question even more so Charlotte’s account! How sad!

To the best of my knowledge I don’t think the fact that the rc church didn’t take a libel case against Charlotte would constitute proof either ways and very unlikely would stand in a court of law.

As I appear to be upsetting people on this site who sincerely believe Charlotte’s story, I will refrain from further posting, hoping and praying that some day it may all be clarified.

Thank you for allowing me to post my serious concerns on your site and take my leave in fraternal charity.

[mfblume]

Jacko, what picture of Charlotte did you see with her and nun's garb on? Please provide link if you can. Thanks.

[Sister Alvear]

Do you want the phone number to call?

[jacko]

The first link is for Charlotte's picture as a nun

http://youtu.be/pqBJ6iN4lUM

This second one is for Carmelite nuns garbe
http://www.carmelnuns.com/Pages/CarmeliteSaints/CarmeliteSaintsPage2.html

Sister Alvear,
Thank you for your offer of a contact number, is it for the States? because I don't live there. An email address would be much handier but how can you pass it on to me?

[Sister Alvear]

I will get you an e mail address..

[crakjak]

The first link is for Charlotte's picture as a nun

http://youtu.be/pqBJ6iN4lUM

This second one is for Carmelite nuns garbe
http://www.carmelnuns.com/Pages/CarmeliteSaints/CarmeliteSaintsPage2.html

Sister Alvear,
Thank you for your offer of a contact number, is it for the States? because I don't live there. An email address would be much handier but how can you pass it on to me?

The first one is NOT Charlotte, (the one in the habit) that is some so called saint from an earlier time.

[mfblume]

The first link is for Charlotte's picture as a nun

http://youtu.be/pqBJ6iN4lUM

This second one is for Carmelite nuns garbe
http://www.carmelnuns.com/Pages/CarmeliteSaints/CarmeliteSaintsPage2.html

Sister Alvear,
Thank you for your offer of a contact number, is it for the States? because I don't live there. An email address would be much handier but how can you pass it on to me?

That is not a picture of Charlotte with the nun's habit. It is a random picture someone used for the story.

[mfblume]

As an aside, the pics of Charlotte with the embossed lettering "Sister Charlotte" were made by yours truly. Folks are stealing that left and right! lol I had access to many of Charlotte's pics in the late 90's.

[jacko]

Yes, it appears you are all right as regards what is been posted all over the internet as Charlotte's picture in the nun's garb, crakjak comment reminded me of what someone suggestion on another site about this picture belonging to an rc Australian nun, I did some research and I think that Mary MacKillop could be whom that person must have been referring to. Google "picture of Saint Mary MacKillop" and compare the black & white ones with Charlotte's picture and there does appear to be great similarities between the two, what do you guys think? At lease the garb appears to be very similar???