UPC Districts - Your Opinions Please

[Hesetmefree238]

I would like to start a thread in which we discuss the characteristics and
personalities of the various districts in the UPC.
My church is part of the Tennessee district. I would classify our district as
very moderate. I do not believe that very many ministers in this district,
especially in the Western portion which is where most of the churches are
located, could be classified as utlra cons. Probably, 80% of the members
of the churches in our area (West TN) have televisions, and I do not know
of very many pastors in our area who take a hard line approach against it.
Also, I think it is very common for UPC members to be involved in organized
sports, and for those of the younger crowd to even attend a college or
pro sports ballgame on occasion.
So, some of you give your posts on your opinions of our district, and also
of other districts of which you may or may not be a member of. This
should make for some interesting reading and discussion.

[Thad]

I would like to start a thread in which we discuss the characteristics and
personalities of the various districts in the UPC.
My church is part of the Tennessee district. I would classify our district as
very moderate. I do not believe that very many ministers in this district,
especially in the Western portion which is where most of the churches are
located, could be classified as utlra cons. Probably, 80% of the members
of the churches in our area (West TN) have televisions, and I do not know
of very many pastors in our area who take a hard line approach against it.
Also, I think it is very common for UPC members to be involved in organized
sports, and for those of the younger crowd to even attend a college or
pro sports ballgame on occasion.
So, some of you give your posts on your opinions of our district, and also of other districts of which you may or may not be a member of.


I would like to hear Steve Epley's comments on this please :ursofunny :icecream

[Hesetmefree238]

I would like to hear Steve Epley's comments on this please :ursofunny :icecream

Liberal, hellbound, charismatic, weak, etc.........

[Thad]

Liberal, hellbound, charismatic, weak, etc.........


how did you know ???

[Hesetmefree238]

Thad, what are your perceptions of the TN district? Also, how would you
characterize your own district?

[CC1]

Hesetyoufree2819,

Realistically I think most would put the TN district of the UPC in the moderate to liberal camp.

Some of the ultra cons remarked over the past year that the current TN DS is apparently trying to move the district more conservative. Good luck with that!!

[Hesetmefree238]

how did you know ???

I've been reading his posts for some time. He is a mega ultra con! We have
a lot of those in our area as well, but none of them are associated with the
UPC in our part of the country.

[Hesetmefree238]

Hesetyoufree2819,

Realistically I think most would put the TN district of the UPC in the moderate to liberal camp.

Some of the ultra cons remarked over the past year that the current TN DS is apparently trying to move the district more conservative. Good luck with that!!


I think he like to appear that he is more conservative than he really is. His roots do go back to a more conservative Canadian district, but in doctrine
and lifestyle I would classify him as moderate.

[Sherri]

Hesetyoufree2819,

Realistically I think most would put the TN district of the UPC in the moderate to liberal camp.

Some of the ultra cons remarked over the past year that the current TN DS is apparently trying to move the district more conservative. Good luck with that!!He's not as conservative as I used to think. That's all I can say on that subject!

[Thad]

Thad, what are your perceptions of the TN district? Also, how would you
characterize your own district?

honestly, i don't know that much about it.

I have heard for years it was liberal ?? when people thought of TN. no offense, but they thought of Tim Dyson. that's probably not fair though. but know this, when I say im from CA. people automatically think im some over the top lunitic who believes fresh air is a sin. understand ?

i vaugely know a little about a few of the churches there that friends have or do attend mostly in Nashville.

[Sherri]

honestly, i don't know that much about it.

I have heard for years it was liberal ?? when people thought of TN. no offense, but they thought of Tim Dyson. that's probably not fair though. but know this, when I say im from CA. people automatically think im some over the top lunitic who believes fresh air is a sin. understand ?

i vaugely know a little about a few of the churches there that friends have or do attend mostly in Nashville.Yeah, i thought all California UPC'ers were ultra cons until I got to know some of them.

[Hesetmefree238]

honestly, i don't know that much about it.

I have heard for years it was liberal ?? when people thought of TN. no offense, but they thought of Tim Dyson. that's probably not fair though. but know this, when I say im from CA. people automatically think im some over the top lunitic who believes fresh air is a sin. understand ?

i vaugely know a little about a few of the churches there that friends have or do attend mostly in Nashville.

I've been a part of the TN district for 24 years, and I can't remember Tim
Dyson. Who is he?
I do think it is ironic that you have one of the most liberal states in the
country in California, but the church in California is known for being very
conservative, and at the same time, TN is one of the more conservative states, but the UPC in it is more moderate to liberal.

[Felicity]

I'm from the Atlantic District in eastern Canada and I would definitely classify it as moderate. It was always the strongest district in Canada and was always compared proportionately and favourably with the Louisiana district as far as # of churches per population.

I am so proud of and thankful for my roots. The AD produced a lot of very strong men and leaders and many missionaries have gone out from that district.

The AD is very unique in that first of all it's Canadian, but secondly that they withdrew from the UPCI back in the early 50s I believe over some kind of disagreement (I think it had to do with FMD). So for a couple of decades they were the United Pentecostal Church of New Brunswick. Then they re-affiliated in 1973 with UPCI, the year we got married.

There are some strong conservatives there though. :D

[Steve Epley]

honestly, i don't know that much about it.

I have heard for years it was liberal ?? when people thought of TN. no offense, but they thought of Tim Dyson. that's probably not fair though. but know this, when I say im from CA. people automatically think im some over the top lunitic who believes fresh air is a sin. understand ?

i vaugely know a little about a few of the churches there that friends have or do attend mostly in Nashville.

From Nashville to the Mississippi most UPC preachers did NOT believe the new birth message of water and Spirit since most were influenced by Elders Gurley, Greer, Henson. I have heard that has changed by pastors taking churches from out of the Tn. district. Holiness wise they have been weak as water television no big deal, hair was marginal, dress was worldly etc. I think the problem around Nashville is all of them are trying to compete with Christ Church and fail miserably. I would like to see a good conservative church in Nashville.

[woodstock]

I've lived in Tennessee (Memphis area), Louisiana, and Florida. I'd classify those three districts as liberal, moderate, and conservative, respectively. The church I attended in TN did not stress standards at all.

[Thad]

I've been a part of the TN district for 24 years, and I can't remember Tim
Dyson. Who is he?
I do think it is ironic that you have one of the most liberal states in the
country in California, but the church in California is known for being very
conservative, and at the same time, TN is one of the more conservative states, but the UPC in it is more moderate to liberal.


Tim Dyson was a big time evangelist in the 80s.

He went on TBN and BASHED his own organization while being interviewed by Paul Crouch during the General conference that year(early 90s)

as far as the other, you, I, and many others have thought about that very thing. you have to know the roots of the CA. Dist. to understand how that came about.
It's might be a good thing that the churches are little more conseravtive here? The first generation people that get saved here need a little more structure

[Steve Epley]

I've lived in Tennessee (Memphis area), Louisiana, and Florida. I'd classify those three districts as liberal, moderate, and conservative, respectively. The church I attended in TN did not stress standards at all.

That is pretty well the story of UPC in Tn. even the ALJC were somewhat stronger than them and that is saying something. When I lived in the Nashville area the strongest church doctrinally and holiness wise was a PAW church what does that say?

[CC1]

From Nashville to the Mississippi most UPC preachers did NOT believe the new birth message of water and Spirit since most were influenced by Elders Gurley, Greer, Henson. I have heard that has changed by pastors taking churches from out of the Tn. district. Holiness wise they have been weak as water television no big deal, hair was marginal, dress was worldly etc. I think the problem around Nashville is all of them are trying to compete with Christ Church and fail miserably. I would like to see a good conservative church in Nashville.

This is a fair description of the situation as I see it also (other than I would not characterize the things he did as "weak", of course!).

However in 1986 once Christ Church left the UPC I imagine by default the district became a little more conservative!

I have seen wedding pictures of Pastor Hardwick and Montelle and Montelle had on earrings. I think he became pastor of CC the same year he got married, about 55 years ago.

First Church (Becton's) is liberal by UPC standards but with important distinctions from Christ Church. At First Church you are free to attend, worship, be fellowshipped, etc without the traditional dress standards BUT you are a second class citizen and not eligible to be on the platform, teach Sunday School,etc.

[Hesetmefree238]

From Nashville to the Mississippi most UPC preachers did NOT believe the new birth message of water and Spirit since most were influenced by Elders Gurley, Greer, Henson. I have heard that has changed by pastors taking churches from out of the Tn. district. Holiness wise they have been weak as water television no big deal, hair was marginal, dress was worldly etc. I think the problem around Nashville is all of them are trying to compete with Christ Church and fail miserably. I would like to see a good conservative church in Nashville.

Brothers Gurley and Greer baptized in Jesus name, and believed it was
important to do so, but they would not say that someone who had truly
repented and placed faith in Christ was lost if he was not baptized
correctly. They also emphasized the need for being baptized with the
Holy Ghost, but did not emphasize it as essential to salvation as it is
today. In my 24 yrs in the TN district of the UPC, I have never heard
baptism in Jesus name or the baptism of the Holy Ghost taught or preached
as optional. I think you are correct that over time the district has gotten
more conservative on the salvation message.

[woodstock]

Tim Dyson's father pastored in Memphis while I lived there. At the time, I thought he was independent or ALJC. I may be wrong about that. He was very strong on Acts 2:38 but not standards.

[Hesetmefree238]

First Church (Becton's) is liberal by UPC standards but with important distinctions from Christ Church. At First Church you are free to attend, worship, be fellowshipped, etc without the traditional dress standards BUT you are a second class citizen and not eligible to be on the platform, teach Sunday School,etc.

I think that is true in most UPC churches in TN. Leaders are expected
to live the standards, and for the most part church members are to, but
they will still be fellowshipped and accepted in the congregation if they
do not uphold the standards, only they wouldn't be placed in a position
of leadership.

[Steve Epley]

This is a fair description of the situation as I see it also (other than I would not characterize the things he did as "weak", of course!).

However in 1986 once Christ Church left the UPC I imagine by default the district became a little more conservative!

I have seen wedding pictures of Pastor Hardwick and Montelle and Montelle had on earrings. I think he became pastor of CC the same year he got married, about 55 years ago.

First Church (Becton's) is liberal by UPC standards but with important distinctions from Christ Church. At First Church you are free to attend, worship, be fellowshipped, etc without the traditional dress standards BUT you are a second class citizen and not eligible to be on the platform, teach Sunday School,etc.

I moved in 90 into the Nashville area I visited most of the UPC churches in the area without anyone knowing I was a preacher. I saw plenty of cut hair, amkeup, jewelry, facial hair on men, even one church had a member mowing it's grass with shorts on. So holiness issues were not an issue in the Nashville area UPC churches.

[Sherri]

Tim Dyson's father pastored in Memphis while I lived there. At the time, I thought he was independent or ALJC. I may be wrong about that. He was very strong on Acts 2:38 but not standards.Do I know you? We were in Memphis from 1980-1984 at Bethel UPC.

[Scott Hutchinson]

I'm not UPCI but in AL. most in the UPCI would be classed MOD.Or LIB.
Most UPCI folks in AL. wouldn't fellowship other Oneness folks.
There are IND.UC churches in AL. and some AMF churches too.
A church in Cottondale , and Atmore are UC. But they aren't UPCI churches.The UCs in AL. aren't UPCI.

[Sherri]

I moved in 90 into the Nashville area I visited most of the UPC churches in the area without anyone knowing I was a preacher. I saw plenty of cut hair, amkeup, jewelry, facial hair on men, even one church had a member mowing it's grass with shorts on. So holiness issues were not an issue in the Nashville area UPC churches.I remember when the JCM chorale went to Nashville to sing at Christ Church. The choir kids were shocked that all the homes they stayed in had TV's. That was the norm to me though, so it was no big deal.

[josh]

I would like to start a thread in which we discuss the characteristics and
personalities of the various districts in the UPC.
My church is part of the Tennessee district. I would classify our district as
very moderate. I do not believe that very many ministers in this district,
especially in the Western portion which is where most of the churches are
located, could be classified as utlra cons. Probably, 80% of the members
of the churches in our area (West TN) have televisions, and I do not know
of very many pastors in our area who take a hard line approach against it.
Also, I think it is very common for UPC members to be involved in organized
sports, and for those of the younger crowd to even attend a college or
pro sports ballgame on occasion.
So, some of you give your posts on your opinions of our district, and also
of other districts of which you may or may not be a member of. This
should make for some interesting reading and discussion.


Having pastored in TN I would say that your observations are right on target.

[Hesetmefree238]

I'm not UPCI but in AL. most in the UPCI would be classed MOD.Or LIB.
Most UPCI folks in AL. wouldn't fellowship other Oneness folks.
There are IND.UC churches in AL. and some AMF churches too.
A church in Cottondale , and Atmore are UC. But they aren't UPCI churches.The UCs in AL. aren't UPCI.


Scott, do you know Brother Traywick? I believe he pastors a UPC church near
either Montgomery or Selma. He seems pretty conservative to me.

[Scott Hutchinson]

This group is in TN.
http://tcojc.org

[Sherri]

This group is in TN.
http://tcojc.org
THEY are definitely ultracon!! I know some of those folks.

[Scott Hutchinson]

Scott, do you know Brother Traywick? I believe he pastors a UPC church near
either Montgomery or Selma. He seems pretty conservative to me.

I don't know him ,but yes there a few cons in the AL. UPCI.

[woodstock]

Do I know you? We were in Memphis from 1980-1984 at Bethel UPC.

I don't know you. I lived in Memphis in the 90's. I know where Love and Truth is though - I have friends in Selmer and Bethel Springs.

[Scott Hutchinson]

THEY are definitely ultracon!! I know some of those folks.

If that name ain't on your church sign you're not right.

[Hesetmefree238]

This group is in TN.
http://tcojc.org

I don't personally know any of those folks, but I know of them. They are
definetely ultra con. I have heard they have some peculiar beliefs.

[Sherri]

I don't know you. I lived in Memphis in the 90's. I know where Love and Truth is though - I have friends in Selmer and Bethel Springs.Well, we're in Jackson now. We started a church here five years ago.

[Scott Hutchinson]

I don't personally know any of those folks, but I know of them. They are
definetely ultra con. I have heard they have some peculiar beliefs.

I think this is one of the groups that teach the name Church Of Jesus Christ must be on the building.

[Hesetmefree238]

Well, we're in Jackson now. We started a church here five years ago.

Sherri, I would like to ask you a question. I have known a few people that
attended your church in Adamsville. Do you guys teach a oneness view of
the godhead, and do you place any emphasis on baptism in Jesus name, and
do you baptize in Jesus name?

[Sherri]

I think this is one of the groups that teach the name Church Of Jesus Christ must be on the building.
Yes, they have some quirky ideas. I think you cannot just baptize someone in the name of Jesus; you have to say Jesus Christ or it's not valid.

[Steve Epley]

I don't personally know any of those folks, but I know of them. They are
definetely ultra con. I have heard they have some peculiar beliefs.

NOT ultra-con that is any I know which is many!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Steve Epley]

I think this is one of the groups that teach the name Church Of Jesus Christ must be on the building.

That is their main teaching.

[Scott Hutchinson]

NOT ultra-con that is any I know which is many!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I knew you knew these folks.HA HA HA.
You know something about the name of the sign doctrine.
Hey is Elder Pylant in Atmore ,AMF ?

[Thad]

Sherri, I would like to ask you a question. I have known a few people that
attended your church in Adamsville. Do you guys teach a oneness view of
the godhead, and do you place any emphasis on baptism in Jesus name, and
do you baptize in Jesus name?



now this is going to be interesting :killinme

[Sherri]

Sherri, I would like to ask you a question. I have known a few people that
attended your church in Adamsville. Do you guys teach a oneness view of
the godhead, and do you place any emphasis on baptism in Jesus name, and
do you baptize in Jesus name?We don't have the church in Adamsville anymore, by the way. Long story....don't want to go into it here.

Anyway, to answer your questions, we do baptize in Jesus' name and we teach why we do it. But we do not tell everyone else that they're lost if they have not been; we simply don't believe that. However, because of what we see in Scripture, Jesus' name is the only way we will put someone under. We don't teach anything called "oneness" or "trinity". Honestly, I don't think anyone completely understands the whole godhead thing, and so we don't use either of those terms. We do believe in one God, Who has come to mankind in different forms. Not different personalities, but different manifestations, i guess.

[Steve Epley]

I knew you knew these folks.HA HA HA.
You know something about the name of the sign doctrine.
Hey is Elder Pylant in Atmore ,AMF ?

Yes he is.

[Scott Hutchinson]

I thought so.

[Hesetmefree238]

NOT ultra-con that is any I know which is many!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Who are the AMF ministers in West TN? I assume Elder Mustain and Elder
Keith Garner are, but I am not sure. What about Roger Brantley and
Ted Wade?

[Steve Epley]

Who are the AMF ministers in West TN? I assume Elder Mustain and Elder
Keith Garner are, but I am not sure. What about Roger Brantley and
Ted Wade?

Elder Mustain and Elder Wade are AMF guys. Elders Garner and Price are good GIBs and friends of mine. Brantley evangelizes out of Elder Wade's church.

[Hesetmefree238]

We don't have the church in Adamsville anymore, by the way. Long story....don't want to go into it here.

Anyway, to answer your questions, we do baptize in Jesus' name and we teach why we do it. But we do not tell everyone else that they're lost if they have not been; we simply don't believe that. However, because of what we see in Scripture, Jesus' name is the only way we will put someone under. We don't teach anything called "oneness" or "trinity". Honestly, I don't think anyone completely understands the whole godhead thing, and so we don't use either of those terms. We do believe in one God, Who has come to mankind in different forms. Not different personalities, but different manifestations, i guess.

I read some of your church literature several years ago. It was some sort of
discipleship course (it was not printed by your church, but it was being used
in some sort of class), and it seemed to promote a trinitarian viewpoint of
the godhead. Also, the people that I worked with who were leaders in your
church or at least very involved members had a trinitarian concept of the
godhead, so this is why I asked.

[woodstock]

We don't have the church in Adamsville anymore, by the way. Long story....don't want to go into it here.

Anyway, to answer your questions, we do baptize in Jesus' name and we teach why we do it. But we do not tell everyone else that they're lost if they have not been; we simply don't believe that. However, because of what we see in Scripture, Jesus' name is the only way we will put someone under. We don't teach anything called "oneness" or "trinity". Honestly, I don't think anyone completely understands the whole godhead thing, and so we don't use either of those terms. We do believe in one God, Who has come to mankind in different forms. Not different personalities, but different manifestations, i guess.

Did you know Bro. Harrell Conaway when you were in Adamsville?

[Scott Hutchinson]

THAD I've heard Pastor EC teach and does a good job on pratical living subjects.
I don't agree with Him on everything his teaching on the family and such is first rate.

[Sherri]

Did you know Bro. Harrell Conaway when you were in Adamsville?Yes, he had a son in my daughter's class, I think. I knew his wife better than him; very sweet.

[Thad]

I read some of your church literature several years ago. It was some sort of
discipleship course (it was not printed by your church, but it was being used
in some sort of class), and it seemed to promote a trinitarian viewpoint of
the godhead. Also, the people that I worked with who were leaders in your
church or at least very involved members had a trinitarian concept of the
godhead, so this is why I asked.



OOOO MY

[Scott Hutchinson]

I'm done for the evening and yall have a good day tomorrow.

[Hesetmefree238]

Elder Mustain and Elder Wade are AMF guys. Elders Garner and Price are good GIBs and friends of mine. Brantley evangelizes out of Elder Wade's church.

I don't want to ruin his reputation with you guys, but Brother Brantley went
on a trip with me to Because of the Time many years ago. Of course he eventually drifted back to the ultra con movement. Brother Garner is a good
man. Obviously I don't agree with him on a lot of issues, but he is a good
man, and Roger Brantley is a good evangelist.

[Hesetmefree238]

OOOO MY

Thad, you are so funny!:ursofunny

[Steve Epley]

I don't want to ruin his reputation with you guys, but Brother Brantley went
on a trip with me to Because of the Time many years ago. Of course he eventually drifted back to the ultra con movement. Brother Garner is a good
man. Obviously I don't agree with him on a lot of issues, but he is a good
man, and Roger Brantley is a good evangelist.

If I had been in the area I would go to BOTT just like I have UPC, ALJC, PAW meetings. I have always visited meetings not of my stripe.

[Sherri]

I read some of your church literature several years ago. It was some sort of
discipleship course (it was not printed by your church, but it was being used
in some sort of class), and it seemed to promote a trinitarian viewpoint of
the godhead. Also, the people that I worked with who were leaders in your
church or at least very involved members had a trinitarian concept of the
godhead, so this is why I asked.Well, I don't know who you're talking about, but some of our people definitely leaned that way because of their backgrounds. We definitely never promoted anything that we felt like was trinitarian, but we also don't believe that you have to understand the godhead to be saved. God is infinite; we are finite--I'm note sure we will understand everything about Him until we get to heaven.

[Hesetmefree238]

That's good. I respect you for doing that. Got to call it a night. Goodnight.

[Sherri]

Me too!! 7 AM seems really early.

[Hesetmefree238]

Well, I don't know who you're talking about, but some of our people definitely leaned that way because of their backgrounds. We definitely never promoted anything that we felt like was trinitarian, but we also don't believe that you have to understand the godhead to be saved. God is infinite; we are finite--I'm note sure we will understand everything about Him until we get to heaven.

I don't believe you have to understand the godhead to be saved, but I do
believe it is important to understand the deity of Christ, and that he is
Lord and Saviour over all, and that he is not number 2 in the godhead.
Hopefully, we can both agree on that. Goodnight.

[Thad]

Well, I don't know who you're talking about, but some of our people definitely leaned that way because of their backgrounds. We definitely never promoted anything that we felt like was trinitarian, but we also don't believe that you have to understand the godhead to be saved. God is infinite; we are finite--I'm note sure we will understand everything about Him until we get to heaven.


Sherri, even the baptist church, evangelical church, Presbyterian church (and the list goes on and on) at least have a firm view of what they teach on the godhead and they do not waver, they are quite Proud of it. in fact, ive been to Trinitarian services where they all read their statment of faith together to affirm their faith. I don't know why we have to hunker down and hide what will believe.
I do think that there are those that are a little "simple" in our churches who perhaps cannot grasp a lot of teaching (their comprehension level is about 3rd grade) but from what i have witnessed, even those who are a little slow can learn that there is not a trinity of 3 people in God. I am rather surprised that you all are okay with your members believing in the Trinity

[CC1]

Sherri, even the baptist church, evangelical church, Presbyterian church (and the list goes on and on) at least have a firm view of what they teach on the godhead and they do not waver, they are quite Proud of it. in fact, ive been to Trinitarian services where they all read their statment of faith together to affirm their faith. I don't know why we have to hunker down and hide what will believe.
I do think that there are those that are a little "simple" in our churches who perhaps cannot grasp a lot of teaching (their comprehension level is about 3rd grade) but from what i have witnessed, even those who are a little slow can learn that there is not a trinity of 3 people in God. I am rather surprised that you all are okay with your members believing in the Trinity

Why? Trinitarians are not the poytheistic demons Oneness folks have made them out to be. They are monotheistic (except for a few that don't understand their own doctrine).

There are differences in our Oneness view of the godhead and the Trinitarian view but not one that affects ones salvation. I agree with Sherri that no one perfectly understands God.

It is only if you believe that people must share your view of the godhead to be saved that it becomes as big a deal as it is for you.

[LaGirl]

I've lived in Tennessee (Memphis area), Louisiana, and Florida. I'd classify those three districts as liberal, moderate, and conservative, respectively. The church I attended in TN did not stress standards at all.



where at in Louisiana

[Sherri]

Why? Trinitarians are not the poytheistic demons Oneness folks have made them out to be. They are monotheistic (except for a few that don't understand their own doctrine).

There are differences in our Oneness view of the godhead and the Trinitarian view but not one that affects ones salvation. I agree with Sherri that no one perfectly understands God.

It is only if you believe that people must share your view of the godhead to be saved that it becomes as big a deal as it is for you.
Good post, CC1!! We do teach that Jesus Christ is fully God, but I promise you--if you were not raised or taught specific oneness doctrine, when you read the Bible, it does sound like there's distinction between the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. I understand why people are confused about it, or why they lean toward trinitarian thinking. I don't condemn them for it; I just don't see it the way they do.

[woodstock]

where at in Louisiana

Baton Rouge area

[LaGirl]

Baton Rouge area

oh okay......i am north La

[Hoovie]

Good post, CC1!! We do teach that Jesus Christ is fully God, but I promise you--if you were not raised or taught specific oneness doctrine, when you read the Bible, it does sound like there's distinction between the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. I understand why people are confused about it, or why they lean toward trinitarian thinking. I don't condemn them for it; I just don't see it the way they do.

Good post except there really is distinction between the Father, Son and Holy Ghost... good discussion for another thread. :)

[Hesetmefree238]

Why? Trinitarians are not the poytheistic demons Oneness folks have made them out to be. They are monotheistic (except for a few that don't understand their own doctrine).

There are differences in our Oneness view of the godhead and the Trinitarian view but not one that affects ones salvation. I agree with Sherri that no one perfectly understands God.

It is only if you believe that people must share your view of the godhead to be saved that it becomes as big a deal as it is for you.

I don't believe they are polytheistic demons, but this does not negate the
importance of teaching people the proper concept of the Godhead, so that
they can better understand the God that they worship.

[Sam]

I'm from the Atlantic District in eastern Canada and I would definitely classify it as moderate. It was always the strongest district in Canada and was always compared proportionately and favourably with the Louisiana district as far as # of churches per population.
...
There are some strong conservatives there though. :D

How about the old question of one-step vs. three-step?
How would you classify the AD on that issue?

[Thumper]

I don't want to ruin his reputation with you guys, but Brother Brantley went
on a trip with me to Because of the Time many years ago. Of course he eventually drifted back to the ultra con movement. Brother Garner is a good
man. Obviously I don't agree with him on a lot of issues, but he is a good
man, and Roger Brantley is a good evangelist.



ooooohhhhh mmmmmmyyyy

I'll never speak to him again!!!

[berkeley]

ooooohhhhh mmmmmmyyyy

I'll never speak to him again!!!
because he attended BOTT.. or because he went back to the UC's??

[Thumper]

because he attended BOTT.. or because he went back to the UC's??

No because he went on a trip with Hesetmefree238

[berkeley]

No because he went on a trip with Hesetmefree238




Also Boom,

There are some who I simply ignore entirely because in my humble estimation they are a waste of bandwidth.




I wasn't ignored!!:highfive

[Sam]

This group is in TN.
http://tcojc.org

The organization you referenced is one of several who call themselves “The Church of Jesus Christ.”

As far as I understand, Bishop Mark Lawson organized and chartered “The Church of Jesus Christ” in 1927. He was Presiding Bishop of that organization for quite some time. I was licensed by them in 1959 when I went to a conference in Charleston, WV.

Over the years there have been splits, fragmentation, etc. Many have left that original group and formed other organizations and quite often they use some form of “Church of Jesus Christ” in their name. I may be wrong about this, but I think one splinter group called themselves “The Assemblies of the Church of Jesus Christ” and they later merged with two other groups called “The Jesus Only Apostolic Church of God” and “The Church of the Lord Jesus Christ” in March 1952 and formed the ALJC (Assemblies of the Lord Jesus Christ).

There is a group called “The Church of Jesus Christ” with headquarters in Kingsport, TN. Their Presiding Bishop or General Overseer is Anthony Adinolfi.Their web site is:
http://tcojc.us/index.htm

The group you referenced is another group using the name “The Church of Jesus Christ”. Their Presiding Bishop is Jarret Spence in Portage, IN. As you stated in your post. their web site is
http://tcojc.org/

There is a group called “The Churches of Jesus Christ International” with headquarters in Cleveland, TN. The Chairman or Presiding Bishop of that group is Boyd Lawson. He is the son of the late Mark Lawson and they claim the 1927 charter date. Their web site is
http://www.angelfire.com/tn3/cojci/

There is another group called the United Apostolic Church of Jesus Christ which has about 18 churches mostly in Indiana and Kentucky. Their website is
http://uac-jc.org/home.php

Some who use the name “Church of Jesus Christ” believe that you are not baptized properly if the title “Lord” is used in baptism. Some believe that the name “The Church of Jesus Christ” has to be on the church building or you are in error. Some teaching on that can be found in some tracts listed at
http://tcojc.org/tracts.htm

Eld. Epley is familiar with some of the folks in these various “Church of Jesus Christ” groups.

[Felicity]

How about the old question of one-step vs. three-step?
How would you classify the AD on that issue?There's a mix - definitely. The numbers fluctuate somewhat over time depending on leadership for one thing and depending whether or not those of one persuasion or the other exit from the fellowship.

I would say the AD had a strong PCI contingent at one time - probably less today although I believe and know that there are many still who believe no differently than we do.

[Sam]

I'm not UPC and don't go to a UPC church.
There are three UPC churches in the Cincinnati area.
When I came here in 1957 there was only one UPC assembly here.
Our pastor was F.E. Curts and he was the D.S.
I think everybody had a TV. Rings (wedding, engagement, birthstone, school, friendship, etc) were very common. The pastor's grand daughter and some others got their hair trimmed for youth camp. Hair was usually kept "long" but was trimmed regularly by many of the women. A couple of the men had facial hair. This was in 1957 until we left that church in 1964 or 65.

From 1964/65 until 1978 we went to an ALJC church. It had split off Bro. Curts' church in 1945. Many women (officers' wives included) had short hair and it was obviously dyed. Our pastor's wife (Sis. Sizemore) had painted on eyebrows. In the late nineteen seventies our pastor, Joe David Sizemore, began preaching on long hair on women and against facial hair on men. We left back then. In 2003 this church got a new pastor, Shelly Hendricks. I don't know how he preaches on things like "standards."

The third UPC in this area is a split off Bro. Curts in 1968. Bro. Norman Paslay was the pastor until his death and now his son is pastor. I don't know how strict he might be.

When I see women from any of the three UPC churches they usually have a "Pentecostal" hairdo but it doesn't look like there's much there.

Ohio has lots of churches and I'm sure they range from liberal to conservative when it comes to standards. But, one thing about Ohio that should be remembered is that this district sent a resolution to the UPC headquarters to revisit the tv issue.

[StillStanding]

Wow! I attended Tennessee Campmeeting last year and it appeared very conservative to me! Those of you calling Tennessee UPC 'liberal' are nuts!!!!!

What I saw:

All women wore dresses
Almost all men wore SUITS!
90% of women had hair piled on their head
All men/boys had short hair (off of ears)
There were no shorts/pants or sleeveless tops on women
There were no shorts or sleeveless tops for men

What they DID do:
Shockamoo
They had good preaching
They had jamming choirs :eek:
They had a big screen with words for the choruses! :eek:
They sung NEW CONTEMPORARY choruses! :eek:
They had cameras VIDEO TAPING the services! :eek:

[CC1]

Wow! I attended Tennessee Campmeeting last year and it appeared very conservative to me! Those of you calling Tennessee UPC 'liberal' are nuts!!!!!

What I saw:

All women wore dresses
Almost all men wore SUITS!
90% of women had hair piled on their head
All men/boys had short hair (off of ears)
There were no shorts/pants or sleeveless tops on women
There were no shorts or sleeveless tops for men

What they DID do:
Shockamoo
They had good preaching
They had jamming choirs :eek:
They had a big screen with words for the choruses! :eek:
They sung NEW CONTEMPORARY choruses! :eek:
They had cameras VIDEO TAPING the services! :eek:

Are you going to TN Campmeeting any this year? If so and you have room I want to hitch a ride!! Where is it this year? I think somebody said it is not in Nashville this year but in or near Jackson and if that is the case that is too far for a quick drive there and back.

[Steve Epley]

Just a few remarks.
Bishop Rex Dyson was in THE Church of Jesus Christ at Memphis.

He taught the essentiality of the new birth also taught the name of the door at one time but retreated from that stand. He was a moderate in holiness standards.
Don Johnson taught the essentiality of the new birth and was a con years ago but went to mod to lib leaning in holiness standards.

The independent brethren in Tn. took a stronger stand on the new birth and holiness standards in Tn.

[StillStanding]

Are you going to TN Campmeeting any this year? If so and you have room I want to hitch a ride!! Where is it this year? I think somebody said it is not in Nashville this year but in or near Jackson and if that is the case that is too far for a quick drive there and back.
If it's in Jackson, I probably won't go! (too far!)
I will go if it's in Nashville! :)

[TalkLady]

Just a few remarks.
Bishop Rex Dyson was in THE Church of Jesus Christ at Memphis.

He taught the essentiality of the new birth also taught the name of the door at one time but retreated from that stand. He was a moderate in holiness standards.
Don Johnson taught the essentiality of the new birth and was a con years ago but went to mod to lib leaning in holiness standards.

The independent brethren in Tn. took a stronger stand on the new birth and holiness standards in Tn.

I am sure some or most of you have heard this story. I was told by someone who was supposed to have been there the day Elvis Presley was baptised. If it is an Untruth, it was his untruth:

http://www.elvis.com.au/presley/article_wasthekingbaptizedintwobeliefs.shtml

http://www.calvaryslighthouse.com/Memphis,TN.htm

[Steve Epley]

I am sure some or most of you have heard this story. I was told by someone who was supposed to have been there the day Elvis Presley was baptised. If it is an Untruth, it was his untruth:

http://www.elvis.com.au/presley/article_wasthekingbaptizedintwobeliefs.shtml

http://www.calvaryslighthouse.com/Memphis,TN.htm

He did baptize Elvis when he was a boy. Elvis and Old Path's brother ran around together and Rex Dyson baptized them.

[TalkLady]

Bro. Epley, I was told that Elvis had been baptized by Bro. Rex Dyson by someone who was supposed to have been there that day. (The person is now deceased)...Apparently, this was true. Thanks for letting me know about Old Path's brother.

[Hesetmefree238]

If it's in Jackson, I probably won't go! (too far!)
I will go if it's in Nashville! :)

It's in Jackson.

[CC1]

It's in Jackson.

We could all go and spend the night with Scupples and Eddie in Jackson!!!!!!!!!!!
:icecream

[Straightline]

Wow! I attended Tennessee Campmeeting last year and it appeared very conservative to me! Those of you calling Tennessee UPC 'liberal' are nuts!!!!!

What I saw:

All women wore dresses
Almost all men wore SUITS!
90% of women had hair piled on their head
All men/boys had short hair (off of ears)
There were no shorts/pants or sleeveless tops on women
There were no shorts or sleeveless tops for men

What they DID do:
Shockamoo
They had good preaching
They had jamming choirs :eek:
They had a big screen with words for the choruses! :eek:
They sung NEW CONTEMPORARY choruses! :eek:
They had cameras VIDEO TAPING the services! :eek:


The UPC of Tennessee, with a few exceptions, is loose as a goose!
:haloplug

The Bible plumbline is a
Straightline

[tamor]

We could all go and spend the night with Scupples and Eddie in Jackson!!!!!!!!!!!
:icecream

Party in the house!!

:woohoo :woohoo :woohoo :woohoo

[Sherri]

We could all go and spend the night with Scupples and Eddie in Jackson!!!!!!!!!!!
:icecream
I just started to say.....I DO HAVE A GUEST ROOM, YOU KNOW!!!

[Steve Epley]

Bro. Epley, I was told that Elvis had been baptized by Bro. Rex Dyson by someone who was supposed to have been there that day. (The person is now deceased)...Apparently, this was true. Thanks for letting me know about Old Path's brother.

Rex Dyson baptized alot of people in his day. If Old Paths gets on today he can tell the whole story. I think Elvis' family were not happy they were AG folks?

[Hesetmefree238]

Rex Dyson baptized alot of people in his day. If Old Paths gets on today he can tell the whole story. I think Elvis' family were not happy they were AG folks?

The really interesting story about Elvis is when he visited the TN district
campmeeting in disguise. He came to the alter and left talking in tongues.
They had to load him into his car, and noone there knew who he was.
Brother Pasley was the camp evangelist. He received various phone calls over
the years from members of Elvis's entorouge about what they witnessed with
Elvis and what they experienced in their own lives during that eventful service.

[deacon blues]

I have a couple of interesting stories to corroborate the Rex Dyson/Elvis legend and one about the TN Camp/Elvis/Paslay connection.

When we moved to Memphis Bro Kenneth and Sis Mary Dyson were attending our church (Bethel) when they were not out of town evangelizing. Brother Rex was still alive. They used our church building to celebrate his 101st birthday. I got to meet the man and asked him about the Elvis story. He told the same story as was recorded in the article that was linked earlier. I heard it straight from the man who performed the baptism.

One Sunday after church we were eating at a Mexican restaurant and ran into Don and Charlie Johnson. I was recounting Rex Dyson's story to them and Charlie said, "We had a woman from our church who was a hospice nurse and she was assigned to help take care of Vern Presley as he was dying. One day she felt a burden to witness to him about JN baptism and as she was sharing the Word with Vern, he reached up and took her by the hand and said, 'Honey, Rex Dyson already took care of this with me a long time ago.'"

Norm Paslay, a personal friend and mentor, came to Memphis and preached for me several years ago. I shared these stories with him one day as we were taking a tour of Graceland and he said, "You know, my parents preached TN Campmeetings for many years. I had always heard the stories about Elvis sneaking into the Campmeeting and being blessed in the services. I had always doubted them as exaggerations. Then one night a few years ago I got a long distance call from Chicago from a man who claimed to have been one of Elvis' former band members. The man was obviously drunk as he spoke with me but I recognized in the background the sound of music playing. As the man spoke to me I realized that the music that was playing was one of my parents old LP albums they had recorded many years ago. The man said, 'Is this Rev. Paslay?' To which I answered, 'Yes'. The man said, 'I am ____________ and I used to play in Elvis Presley's band. We were traveling once near the UPC Campground in TN and decided to pay it a visit. We were so blessed by your ministry I purchased your album and I was listening to it tonight and decided to try to get a hold of you and talk to you about God.'"

Bro Paslay said he explained he was the son of the man and woman on the album and proceeded to witness to the man. The event convinced Bro Norm that the rumors of Elvis' attendance to the TN Cmapmeeting were true.

[stmatthew]

Hesetyoufree2819,

Realistically I think most would put the TN district of the UPC in the moderate to liberal camp.

Some of the ultra cons remarked over the past year that the current TN DS is apparently trying to move the district more conservative. Good luck with that!!

I am just seeing this thread.

CC1,

Don't believe a word about the DS. He is allowing ministers to be ordained knowing they have tv in their home. He is weak in this area for sure.

[deacon blues]

Campmeeting in TN is in Jackson but only for three days: Wed-Fri, July 11-13. I thinkJeff Arnold is supposed to preach, but I am not sure.

[deacon blues]

I am just seeing this thread.

CC1,

Don't believe a word about the DS. He is allowing ministers to be ordained knowing they have tv in their home. He is weak in this area for sure.

Ron Brown is a fine DS and is a friend. He is not a "weak" Apostolic! St Matt, how would he know if a minister has a tv in their homes? I doubt that statement very seriously and I call on you to recant the charge unless you can prove it to be so. Don't repeat conjecture as fact!

I have watched Bro Brown do a fantastic job as DS. I know of a preacher who left the UPC and Brother Brown as his former Presbyter (before he became Supt) continued to call the man about once a month maintaining friendship with him. I knew the man and he told me so. Bro Brown and I later had a conversation and he told me he kept in touch with the preacher hoping he would eventually come back into the org.

Don't even start to dis my DS!

[stmatthew]

Ron Brown is a fine DS and is a friend. He is not a "weak" Apostolic! St Matt, how would he know if a minister has a tv in their homes? I doubt that statement very seriously and I call on you to recant the charge unless you can prove it to be so. Don't repeat conjecture as fact!

I have watched Bro Brown do a fantastic job as DS. I know of a preacher who left the UPC and Brother Brown as his former Presbyter (before he became Supt) continued to call the man about once a month maintaining friendship with him. I knew the man and he told me so. Bro Brown and I later had a conversation and he told me he kept in touch with the preacher hoping he would eventually come back into the org.

Don't even start to dis my DS!

I know cause when my former pastor went for his ordination last year, he talked with Bro Brown, and explained to him that he had a tv in his home, and that he watched video's of tv shows on it. He asked the DS if this was a problem, and was told by the DS that "NO, and no one will be disciplined in TN over TV." (The reason he asked the DS is because he said he didn't want any surprise questions being asked that he could not answer)

No recanting here. I know too much. If they started enforcing the TV issue as it is written in the manual, then most of the eastern TN preachers would be on the curb. I was there. I saw the dvd's of seasons of CSI and 24 being passed around by the pastors.

[stmatthew]

Bump for the deacon

[Kansas Preacher]

Since this thread is supposed to be about the various districts and where they stand, I thought it might interest some of you to know that Kansas is a conservative district.


I figured that was a secret, so I'm breaking the news. I hope Thad isn't too mad that I "scooped" him on this one.

[Steve Epley]

I know cause when my former pastor went for his ordination last year, he talked with Bro Brown, and explained to him that he had a tv in his home, and that he watched video's of tv shows on it. He asked the DS if this was a problem, and was told by the DS that "NO, and no one will be disciplined in TN over TV." (The reason he asked the DS is because he said he didn't want any surprise questions being asked that he could not answer)

No recanting here. I know too much. If they started enforcing the TV issue as it is written in the manual, then most of the eastern TN preachers would be on the curb. I was there. I saw the dvd's of seasons of CSI and 24 being passed around by the pastors.


Good grief Tn has always been as weak as water about standards and doctrine. When I lived in Lebanon we went to eat one evening after service in a resturant in a neighboring town and the UPC pastor and entourage was kicked back watching tv in the resturant like it was nothing. And when the 'saints'(?) they were saying they had to hurry home to see the rest. Laugh, laugh!!!! They saw us there I spoke to them on the way in barely got a nod they were so involved. Forget the apology you are on the mark they could care less about television or mush of anything.

[Whole Hearted]

Ron Brown is a fine DS and is a friend. He is not a "weak" Apostolic! St Matt, how would he know if a minister has a tv in their homes? I doubt that statement very seriously and I call on you to recant the charge unless you can prove it to be so. Don't repeat conjecture as fact!

I have watched Bro Brown do a fantastic job as DS. I know of a preacher who left the UPC and Brother Brown as his former Presbyter (before he became Supt) continued to call the man about once a month maintaining friendship with him. I knew the man and he told me so. Bro Brown and I later had a conversation and he told me he kept in touch with the preacher hoping he would eventually come back into the org.

Don't even start to dis my DS!

When I went before the board in TX to get my license I was ask point blank "do you have a TV? Do you watch TV when you go to family's house or any place where there might be a TV?"


So there is a way to know is one who is applying has as TV or not.

[Kansas Preacher]

Since this thread is supposed to be about the various districts and where they stand, I thought it might interest some of you to know that Kansas is a conservative district.


I figured that was a secret, so I'm breaking the news. I hope Thad isn't too mad that I "scooped" him on this one.

You mean nobody is shocked at this breaking news?

[chaotic_resolve]

Two Districts I know and have been a part of

Nebraska - this is definitely the place to be! *especially if you're a Messianic Jew* :lol Ah, yes, Nebraska. The land of incredible revival . . . or so they say. :nod

Arizona - you must choose sides! Either you're with the Conservatives or you're with the Liberals . . . there's no in between here. *no unity here for that matter, either.* :haloplug

Okay, for real, I love both Districts. There are great ministers and churches in both Districts. We may not always agree on everything, but I do respect the ministers from these Districts. *well most of them anyway.* :largehalo

Unfortunately though, for a little while at least, Nebraska will be known as the "Jewish revival fraud" state. The good thing is there are some Joshua and Caleb-type pastors that are rising up and the old guard is ready to be replaced. Soon Nebraska ~will~ have a great revival . . . pictures and video included. :thumbsup

[Straightline]

You mean nobody is shocked at this breaking news?

:icecream




I can drive through Kansas in a
Straightline

[philjones]

Two Districts I know and have been a part of

Nebraska - this is definitely the place to be! *especially if you're a Messianic Jew* :lol Ah, yes, Nebraska. The land of incredible revival . . . or so they say. :nod

Arizona - you must choose sides! Either you're with the Conservatives or you're with the Liberals . . . there's no in between here. *no unity here for that matter, either.* :haloplug

Okay, for real, I love both Districts. There are great ministers and churches in both Districts. We may not always agree on everything, but I do respect the ministers from these Districts. *well most of them anyway.* :largehalo

Unfortunately though, for a little while at least, Nebraska will be known as the "Jewish revival fraud" state. The good thing is there are some Joshua and Caleb-type pastors that are rising up and the old guard is ready to be replaced. Soon Nebraska ~will~ have a great revival . . . pictures and video included. :thumbsup

did you know Rob Bibb when you were in AZ? I have known Rob since we were youngsters and I went to TBC with his precious wife!

I count them as friends.. just not sure which side of the AZ divide the fall on!:heeheehee

[chaotic_resolve]

did you know Rob Bibb when you were in AZ? I have known Rob since we were youngsters and I went to TBC with his precious wife!

I count them as friends.. just not sure which side of the AZ divide the fall on!:heeheehee
Are you talking about the younger Bibb (Pentecostals of Phx) or the elder Bibb? I know the younger Bibb, pastor of the PoP (http://pentecostalsofphoenix.org/ME2/Sites/Default.asp?SiteID=B516E66236704264B4CAF45E4ECABB5 D). Great man, awesome pastor. Has a great church that's growing and doing really well. I spoke with him a couple months ago and I believe they had just purchased land to build on!

At PoP they have a banner that says "balance." That's how they are, very balanced. They're open and receptive to all the UPC churches, regardless of leanings.

[philjones]

Are you talking about the younger Bibb (Pentecostals of Phx) or the elder Bibb? I know the younger Bibb, pastor of the PoP (http://pentecostalsofphoenix.org/ME2/Sites/Default.asp?SiteID=B516E66236704264B4CAF45E4ECABB5 D). Great man, awesome pastor. Has a great church that's growing and doing really well. I spoke with him a couple months ago and I believe they had just purchased land to build on!

At PoP they have a banner that says "balance." That's how they are, very balanced. They're open and receptive to all the UPC churches, regardless of leanings.

You got the right one... PoP... and Thank the Lord they have acquired land... Their location is not good and is not getting any better.

I know Rob's dad as well... the entire family actually. They are all good folks!

I have played golf with Bro. Bibb so I know that he is definitely, as you say, balanced and not a total ultra con.:tease

If I am not mistaken Elder Bibb pastored where Rob is now before Rob took the church. It also seems like I remember that Elder Bibb is now in a Home Missions work in another area around Phoenix.

Again, a great family of great folks.

[Hesetmefree238]

No recanting here. I know too much. If they started enforcing the TV issue as it is written in the manual, then most of the eastern TN preachers would be on the curb. I was there. I saw the dvd's of seasons of CSI and 24 being passed around by the pastors.

TV is very prevelant in West TN UPC churches. I am glad that they
do not try to enforce a rule that many know should be removed from our
manual.

[FRINGE_NUTTER]

Good grief Tn has always been as weak as water about standards and doctrine. When I lived in Lebanon we went to eat one evening after service in a resturant in a neighboring town and the UPC pastor and entourage was kicked back watching tv in the resturant like it was nothing. And when the 'saints'(?) they were saying they had to hurry home to see the rest. Laugh, laugh!!!! They saw us there I spoke to them on the way in barely got a nod they were so involved. Forget the apology you are on the mark they could care less about television or mush of anything.

I love it Bro. Epley. MUSH of anything. You are right on the money, Brother.

[Hesetmefree238]

At PoP they have a banner that says "balance." That's how they are, very balanced. They're open and receptive to all the UPC churches, regardless of leanings.

That's the way we all should be!
Balanced!!!!!!!!!
And we should be receptive to all Jesus name brethren, regardless of their
leanings on the issues that divide us.

[CC1]

That's the way we all should be!
Balanced!!!!!!!!!
And we should be receptive to all Jesus name brethren, regardless of their
leanings on the issues that divide us.


More liberal gobbedly gook.:icecream

[nathan_slatter]

More liberal gobbedly gook.:icecream

You called? :D

[stmatthew]

TV is very prevelant in West TN UPC churches. I am glad that they
do not try to enforce a rule that many know should be removed from our
manual.

Leaves one wondering whether ethics and honesty matters anymore though.

[Hesetmefree238]

Leaves one wondering whether ethics and honesty matters anymore though.

I love the UPC, but I don't love everything about it. I don't love the
regulations against TV. Why can't people be a part of it, but not agree
with every jot and title? I really believe the UPC is the best thing going, but
I don't agree with every jot and title that is in the manual. Not many of
the original members agreed on everything, but they did agree on the
fundamental doctrine of full salvation as described in Acts 2:38.
There was also a spirit in the beginning, as read in our doctrinal statement, that the brethren should not contend for their different views to the
disunity of the body.

[Religious Nut]

Yeah, i thought all California UPC'ers were ultra cons until I got to know some of them.

Even though I do not know a whole lot about the California district, I am surprised to find out that it is a conservative district since California is a pretty liberal state, and because Christian Life College is out there, and from my observations, it seems to be a pretty liberal school, (at least in comparison to the UPC as a whole).

[Ferd]

Every UPCI district should endevor to be like the Louisiana district.

that is all I have to say about this.

[Fonix]

Every UPCI district should endevor to be like the Louisiana district.


that is all I have to say about this.


I have noticed the LA womens leadership wear there skirts short. Why is that?

[scooterbugs25]

Ohio is dead and liberal. WV don't have much.. and VA is liberal and dead as well, I see a trend going here..Not many upc churches still holding on too the way of holiness.

I go to a NON upc church..We are independent. Jeff Weaver is my Pastor, He does not hold back on any thing. If he feels the need to preach it he will call it out. I LOVE IT! That is what a man of God does. Warns you of your sin, not patting you on the back tell you it will get better.

[Hesetmefree238]

Even though I do not know a whole lot about the California district, I am surprised to find out that it is a conservative district since California is a pretty liberal state, and because Christian Life College is out there, and from my observations, it seems to be a pretty liberal school, (at least in comparison to the UPC as a whole).

I have always thought it is very ironic that the UPC in Californina for the most
part has been very conservative in a state that is known for it's liberal and
securlar leanings.

[Hesetmefree238]

I have noticed the LA womens leadership wear there skirts short. Why is that?


HOW SHORT?????

[Ferd]

I have noticed the LA womens leadership wear there skirts short. Why is that?

cuz they are hot?

[Monkeyman]

I have always thought it is very ironic that the UPC in Californina for the most
part has been very conservative in a state that is known for it's liberal and
securlar leanings.
This is an untrue statement, Cali has always had a strong conservative political body, there are areas such as orange county and san diego that supports the conservative agengda strongly, especially financially. It's because of Hollywood and San Francisco/bay area that the rest of the US thinks this about it. There are huge areas of conservative thinking and it shows in many of the UPC and non upc churches.

[Monkeyman]

cuz they are hot?
hahahahaha, that is the funniest thing I've read here!

[Monkeyman]

I have noticed the LA womens leadership wear there skirts short. Why is that?I've always noticed they cover the knee, so is that short????? Hmmmm, I guess I should clarify...my wife has noticed that too, whew!!! She reads AFF sometimes!

[PaPaDon]

There are differences in our Oneness view of the godhead and the Trinitarian view but not one that affects ones salvation. I agree with Sherri that no one perfectly understands God.


I must say that I am both amazed and utterly perplexed at such statements as this that I've read within this thread! Please, folks, consider the following:

Jeremiah 9:23-24
Thus saith the LORD, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches: BUT let him that glorieth glory in THIS, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the LORD which exerciseth lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight.

Is it sufficient that one say he ONLY knows God, yet does NOT understand Him (that is to say the underlying reason for His relationship and interaction with mankind)? Did God intend that we remain ignorant/unaware of some things pertaining to Him, and not learn of them until the end of all things? I hardly think so! I make this assertion based upon the following:

Revelation 10:7
But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath DECLARED unto his servants the prophets.

Does not this statement disclose that God has already DECLARED all of the information regarding the mystery pertaining to Him to His servants, the prophets (spokesmen) of olden times, who were "moved" (inspired/motivated) by the Holy Ghost to record them for our enlightenment?

The point I seek to make is simply this: If one is yet ignorant of the manner in which God acts, or of things which pertain to the mysteries which surround Him, then such lack of understanding can only be attributed to a failure to heed and obey Paul's instructions to Timothy:

II Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

I do NOT make these statements with the intent of shaming or belittling anyone, but ONLY to stress our need to carefully attend to the things which we publish, lest we be found "ashamed" when appearing before the coming Judgment seat of Christ" for failing to "...grow in grace, AND in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ." (II Peter 3:18)

Did not Jesus EXPLICITLY state: Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth is come, he will guide you into ALL truth... AND he will shew you things to come"? (John 16:13) What excuse do we have for remaining ignorant of the manner, or mannerisms of God's actions regarding man? Did not Jesus also assert: Unto you it is given to KNOW the mystery of the kingdom of God..."? (Mark 4:11) Even the apostle Paul admonished us to be aware of the gravity of our responsibility with respect to this matter: Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and STEWARDS of the mysteries of God." (I Corinthians 4:1)

Is anyone yet ignorant of anything which pertains to God and the great mysteries which surround Him? If so, then the problem lies with the failure to make the necessary investment of our time and energies to explore the Word of God to determine them, for surely God has caused them to be recorded there for our benefit! And yes, it does take some effort on our part - It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to SEARCH out a matter. (Proverbs 25:2)

[Whole Hearted]

I've always noticed they cover the knee, so is that short????? Hmmmm, I guess I should clarify...my wife has noticed that too, whew!!! She reads AFF sometimes!

Well I've seen some of the LA. women and their skirts would not cover their knees and they wee on the platform.

[Just a Shepherd]

Since this thread is supposed to be about the various districts and where they stand, I thought it might interest some of you to know that Kansas is a conservative district.


I figured that was a secret, so I'm breaking the news. I hope Thad isn't too mad that I "scooped" him on this one.

Do they allow for the use of the Internet in Kansas? If so, they are NOT conservative. Moderate maybe but not conservative. Don't kid yourself...

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Do they allow for the use of the Internet in Kansas? If so, they are NOT conservative. Moderate maybe but not conservative. Don't kid yourself...

I do not know of any District who takes a stance against use of the Internet.

Quite a few it seems do not take a stance against much at all.

The Brethern in Kansas have bucked this trend for many years. :thumbsup

[Kansas Preacher]

Well I've seen some of the LA. women and their skirts would not cover their knees and they wee on the platform.

How embarrassing!!!! I've seen a lot of things happen in church, but never THIS!!!!

:ursofunny :ursofunny :ursofunny :ursofunny :ursofunny

[Kansas Preacher]

Do they allow for the use of the Internet in Kansas? If so, they are NOT conservative. Moderate maybe but not conservative. Don't kid yourself...

Obviously "conservative" is a relative term. I would dare that, in relation to most other districts in the UPCI it is safe to say that Kansas is conservative.

[Falla39]

I must say that I am both amazed and utterly perplexed at such statements as this that I've read within this thread! Please, folks, consider the following:

Jeremiah 9:23-24
Thus saith the LORD, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches: BUT let him that glorieth glory in THIS, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the LORD which exerciseth lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight.

Is it sufficient that one say he ONLY knows God, yet does NOT understand Him (that is to say the underlying reason for His relationship and interaction with mankind)? Did God intend that we remain ignorant/unaware of some things pertaining to Him, and not learn of them until the end of all things? I hardly think so! I make this assertion based upon the following:

Revelation 10:7
But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath DECLARED unto his servants the prophets.

Does not this statement disclose that God has already DECLARED all of the information regarding the mystery pertaining to Him to His servants, the prophets (spokesmen) of olden times, who were "moved" (inspired/motivated) by the Holy Ghost to record them for our enlightenment?

The point I seek to make is simply this: If one is yet ignorant of the manner in which God acts, or of things which pertain to the mysteries which surround Him, then such lack of understanding can only be attributed to a failure to heed and obey Paul's instructions to Timothy:

II Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

I do NOT make these statements with the intent of shaming or belittling anyone, but ONLY to stress our need to carefully attend to the things which we publish, lest we be found "ashamed" when appearing before the coming Judgment seat of Christ" for failing to "...grow in grace, AND in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ." (II Peter 3:18)

Did not Jesus EXPLICITLY state: Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth is come, he will guide you into ALL truth... AND he will shew you things to come"? (John 16:13) What excuse do we have for remaining ignorant of the manner, or mannerisms of God's actions regarding man? Did not Jesus also assert: Unto you it is given to KNOW the mystery of the kingdom of God..."? (Mark 4:11) Even the apostle Paul admonished us to be aware of the gravity of our responsibility with respect to this matter: Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and STEWARDS of the mysteries of God." (I Corinthians 4:1)

Is anyone yet ignorant of anything which pertains to God and the great mysteries which surround Him? If so, then the problem lies with the failure to make the necessary investment of our time and energies to explore the Word of God to determine them, for surely God has caused them to be recorded there for our benefit! And yes, it does take some effort on our part - It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to SEARCH out a matter. (Proverbs 25:2)


Bro. PaPaDon,

What a profound post you have made! May God continue to open the

understanding of those that are seeking Him with their whole hearts, in

Jesus Name! After Jesus had spent many days teaching his disciples after

his resurrection, just a few days before Pentecost, He OPENED their

understanding, (why?) that they might understand the scriptures. That's

how they knew how to baptize and what to teach, because He taught

them and opened their understanding Himself.

Blessings,

Falla39

[Just a Shepherd]

Obviously "conservative" is a relative term. I would dare that, in relation to most other districts in the UPCI it is safe to say that Kansas is conservative.

You're right (no pun intended). Conservative is a very subjective, non biblical term used to further alienate us from the responsibility of "knowing them that labor among you."

If the criteria for conservatism is separation from the world, then compared with the Amish who live nearby me, Kansas is a district of flaming liberals, and my district is then Hell itself. :lol

[mizpeh]

I must say that I am both amazed and utterly perplexed at such statements as this that I've read within this thread! Please, folks, consider the following:

Jeremiah 9:23-24
Thus saith the LORD, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches: BUT let him that glorieth glory in THIS, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the LORD which exerciseth lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight.

Is it sufficient that one say he ONLY knows God, yet does NOT understand Him (that is to say the underlying reason for His relationship and interaction with mankind)? Did God intend that we remain ignorant/unaware of some things pertaining to Him, and not learn of them until the end of all things? I hardly think so! I make this assertion based upon the following:

Revelation 10:7
But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath DECLARED unto his servants the prophets.

Does not this statement disclose that God has already DECLARED all of the information regarding the mystery pertaining to Him to His servants, the prophets (spokesmen) of olden times, who were "moved" (inspired/motivated) by the Holy Ghost to record them for our enlightenment?

The point I seek to make is simply this: If one is yet ignorant of the manner in which God acts, or of things which pertain to the mysteries which surround Him, then such lack of understanding can only be attributed to a failure to heed and obey Paul's instructions to Timothy:

II Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

I do NOT make these statements with the intent of shaming or belittling anyone, but ONLY to stress our need to carefully attend to the things which we publish, lest we be found "ashamed" when appearing before the coming Judgment seat of Christ" for failing to "...grow in grace, AND in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ." (II Peter 3:18)

Did not Jesus EXPLICITLY state: Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth is come, he will guide you into ALL truth... AND he will shew you things to come"? (John 16:13) What excuse do we have for remaining ignorant of the manner, or mannerisms of God's actions regarding man? Did not Jesus also assert: Unto you it is given to KNOW the mystery of the kingdom of God..."? (Mark 4:11) Even the apostle Paul admonished us to be aware of the gravity of our responsibility with respect to this matter: Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and STEWARDS of the mysteries of God." (I Corinthians 4:1)

Is anyone yet ignorant of anything which pertains to God and the great mysteries which surround Him? If so, then the problem lies with the failure to make the necessary investment of our time and energies to explore the Word of God to determine them, for surely God has caused them to be recorded there for our benefit! And yes, it does take some effort on our part - It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to SEARCH out a matter. (Proverbs 25:2)

Thank you! :highfive

[mizpeh]

You're right (no pun intended). Conservative is a very subjective, non biblical term used to further alienate us from the responsibility of "knowing them that labor among you."

If the criteria for conservatism is separation from the world, then compared with the Amish who live nearby me, Kansas is a district of flaming liberals, and my district is then Hell itself. :lol

What district are you in?

[Just a Shepherd]

What district are you in?

Right... Like I'm going to tell you :ursofunny

[ReformedDave]

What district are you in?

Amish country......

[Just a Shepherd]

Amish country......

You narrowed it down. It's not Houston or Los Angeles. Your getting warmer...

[Hoovie]

You narrowed it down. It's not Houston or Los Angeles. Your getting warmer...

Likely OH., PA., IN, IL. or MI.


How is that??

[tv1a]

Do the liberals and moderates get leeway?

Obviously "conservative" is a relative term. I would dare that, in relation to most other districts in the UPCI it is safe to say that Kansas is conservative.

[tv1a]

Whatever happened to the label christian? That's good enough for me.

[Hesetmefree238]

This is an untrue statement, Cali has always had a strong conservative political body, there are areas such as orange county and san diego that supports the conservative agengda strongly, especially financially. It's because of Hollywood and San Francisco/bay area that the rest of the US thinks this about it. There are huge areas of conservative thinking and it shows in many of the UPC and non upc churches.

I'm not saying there are not people of conservative leaning that live in the
state of California. My family members who live there are conservative.
However, the state of California has been both politically and socially liberal
for some time. When was the last time a conservative republican carried
the state of California in an election? We have to go back to Bush vs. Dukakis.

[Hesetmefree238]

[QUOTE=BoredOutOfMyMind;111473]I do not know of any District who takes a stance against use of the Internet.

Quite a few it seems do not take a stance against much at all. [ /QUOTE]

Oh, I don't know about that. Most districts I know of take a stand against
fornication, adultery, lying, stealing, cursing, blaspheming, drunkeness, etc...
things that the Bible CLEARLY takes a stand against.

[SoCaliUPC]

I'm not saying there are not people of conservative leaning that live in the
state of California. My family members who live there are conservative.
However, the state of California has been both politically and socially liberal
for some time. When was the last time a conservative republican carried
the state of California in an election? We have to go back to Bush vs. Dukakis.


Part of what MonkeyMan is saying is correct.....if you took a look at a map of the State of California and look at a county "red and blue" map....there is far more conservative counties. You have Los Angeles County as liberal and the Bay area. They are heavily concentrated with a very liberal view and mindset...and take the votes.

[Hesetmefree238]

Part of what MonkeyMan is saying is correct.....if you took a look at a map of the State of California and look at a county "red and blue" map....there is far more conservative counties. You have Los Angeles County as liberal and the Bay area. They are heavily concentrated with a very liberal view and mindset...and take the votes.

Oh, I know you are absolutely right about that. I remember looking at the
polical map after the last presidential election, and California had many more
red counties (republican) than blue counties (democratic), however the
problem is there are way more people in those handful of blue counties, than
there are in all of the red counties put together.

[PoorWiddleMe]

[QUOTE=BoredOutOfMyMind;111473]I do not know of any District who takes a stance against use of the Internet.

Quite a few it seems do not take a stance against much at all. /QUOTE]

Oh, I don't know about that. Most districts I know of take a stand against
fornication, adultery, lying, stealing, cursing, blaspheming, drunkeness, etc...
things that the Bible CLEARLY takes a stand against.

oh, let's pray they will.