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Barb
02-17-2007, 10:03 AM
If so, ignore me with my permission.

I am wondering, does anyone have proof, be it Scripture or Church historical letters/documents that the early Church practiced Foot Washing?

Was it a rite ordained by Christ and followed by the Saints of old, or have we taken an incident in the Bible and made it common practice?!:confused:

whollyHis
02-17-2007, 10:33 AM
Barb...when I was about 19 years old, I asked this question of my dad- he was a UPCI licensed evangelist- he could give me no example of the CHURCH doing this. He suggested that I ask my pastor the question. I did. Wrong thing to do. He told me I was being proud and a tiny bit contentious. Maybe if I had myself a good prayer meeting, I might not worry about the 'WHYS' so much...after all, obedience IS better than sacrifice...*sigh*

Thanks for asking this...

Barb
02-17-2007, 10:56 AM
Barb...when I was about 19 years old, I asked this question of my dad- he was a UPCI licensed evangelist- he could give me no example of the CHURCH doing this. He suggested that I ask my pastor the question. I did. Wrong thing to do. He told me I was being proud and a tiny bit contentious. Maybe if I had myself a good prayer meeting, I might not worry about the 'WHYS' so much...after all, obedience IS better than sacrifice...*sigh*

Thanks for asking this...

It must be indeed a silly question or one for which there is no sound answer...thanks, WH...

Sherri
02-17-2007, 10:59 AM
We don't do it, but I'm not against it. I remember some of those old foot washing services when I was a kid. I never really got anything out of it, but some did.

freeatlast
02-17-2007, 11:08 AM
My thoughts Barb is that it is an example of humble service. We should practice acts of humble service, the greater serving the lesser.

Today my feet are not dirty and the practice of footwashing by our culture has long since ceased.

You can see in the word mentions of footwashing in Genesis. Much like parapets on roofs, times have changed and we don't see the need to build railings on our roofs anymore.

The subject has been argued on fcf and nfcf till I thought sure the cows would come home.

Some believe it is a command that we must follow or our soul will surely be lost.

I think that view is all wet. Wet feet and all.

Hope you find the answer you are looking for.

Esther
02-17-2007, 11:16 AM
Barb, I have never figures out how we can NOT do foot washing when Jesus clearly told the deciples this OUGHT you to do.

In fact, when Peter told Him not to wash his feet, Jesus told Peter if he didn't wash his feet he would have no part with Him. (paraphrased)

With that kind of emphasis being made how can we NOT do it???

YET, there are things that we do not do where there is no scripture that says one way or the other.

My question is IF Communion is continued then why not foot washing? Were they not done at the same time?

Where they not equally important?

I think we have become too proud to wash one anothers feet. And PRIDE WILL bring us down.

Barb
02-17-2007, 11:18 AM
My thoughts Barb is that it is an example of humble service. We should practice acts of humble service, the greater serving the lesser.

Today my feet are not dirty and the practice of footwashing by our culture has long since ceased.

You can see in the word mentions of footwashing in Genesis. Much like parapets on roofs, times have changed and we don't see the need to build railings on our roofs anymore.

The subject has been argued on fcf and nfcf till I thought sure the cows would come home.

Some believe it is a command that we must follow or our soul will surely be lost.

I think that view is all wet. Wet feet and all.

Hope you find the answer you are looking for.
Thank you and I agree with the above...as for humility and all, love and service to the household of faith cab be displayed in many ways.

I'm with Sherri, too...I never get anything out of it either.

My aunt used to always shout and kick the basin over, water flying everywhere. When we were young and played church, I was always Aunt LaJean 'cause I wanted to kick the water and make a mess...:heeheehee

Remington
02-17-2007, 11:22 AM
Here is one.

I Timothy 5:10
Well reported of for good works; if she have brought up children, if she have lodged strangers, if she have washed the saints' feet, if she have relieved the afflicted, if she have diligently followed every good work.

Barb
02-17-2007, 11:25 AM
Barb, I have never figures out how we can NOT do foot washing when Jesus clearly told the deciples this OUGHT you to do.

In fact, when Peter told Him not to wash his feet, Jesus told Peter if he didn't wash his feet he would have no part with Him. (paraphrased)

With that kind of emphasis being made how can we NOT do it???

YET, there are things that we do not do where there is no scripture that says one way or the other.

My question is IF Communion is continued then why not foot washing? Were they not done at the same time?

Where they not equally important?

I think we have become too proud to wash one anothers feet. And PRIDE WILL bring us down.

I mentioned that very Scripture to my mom this morning when we were out and about. It is my understanding/belief that Jesus was speaking directly to Peter..."If you refuse to wash my feet, you have no part with me."

It is not pride that makes me feel this way...I simply do not believe that this is a mandate that if I don't do it, I have no part with Him. Does that mean then that my salvation is null and void? Am I going to be kept out of that Pearly White City because I don't wash feet?

Re Communion, Jesus said ,"As oft as you do this..." In other words, continue...I don't see this with Foot Washing, but I am NOT contentious. If it can be proven that it is a rite set forth by the Master, great...I will comply.

Barb
02-17-2007, 11:26 AM
Here is one.

I Timothy 5:10
Well reported of for good works; if she have brought up children, if she have lodged strangers, if she have washed the saints' feet, if she have relieved the afflicted, if she have diligently followed every good work.

Oi...well, there ya go...thank you...

Esther
02-17-2007, 11:29 AM
I mentioned that very Scripture to my mom this morning when we were out and about. It is my understanding/belief that Jesus was speaking directly to Peter..."If you refuse to wash my feet, you have no part with me."

It is not pride that makes me feel this way...I simply do not believe that this is a mandate that if I don't do it, I have no part with Him. Does that mean then that my salvation is null and void? Am I going to be kept out of that Pearly White City because I don't wash feet?

Re Communion, Jesus said ,"As oft as you do this..." In other words, continue...I don't see this with Foot Washing, but I am NOT contentious. If it can be proven that it is a rite set forth by the Master, great...I will comply.

Then what do you think Jesus meant when he said "this OUGHT you to do"?

To me if Jesus tells me I ought (should) do something, I would think I should do it.

But that is just me.

Barb
02-17-2007, 11:32 AM
Then what do you think Jesus meant when he said "this OUGHT you to do"?

To me if Jesus tells me I ought (should) do something, I would think I should do it.

But that is just me.

Well, hon, Remington put the Word on me, so now I am convinced. I've read that verse a zillion times and forgot it was in there...oi...

As for what we ought to do, again some things were for a specific time or person/persons...I never took Foot Washing to be something we HAD to do.

But, it's in the epistles, so...

Esther
02-17-2007, 11:37 AM
Well, hon, Remington put the Word on me, so now I am convinced. I've read that verse a zillion times and forgot it was in there...oi...

As for what we ought to do, again some things were for a specific time or person/persons...I never took Foot Washing to be something we HAD to do.

But, it's in the epistles, so...

Then how do you define what specific time or person/persons? What was for them only and what is for everyone?

What is your determing factor?

Just curious.

I have brought this subject up myself.

Now, the way I personally like to do footwashing, is with ladies of like mindedness. When we gather together in our home after a time of fasting, and then wash each others feet and pray over them together.

For instance I would invite about 5-7 ladies to come over. We would have a time of prayer and then we would have one lady sit in the chair and we would each wash her feet and all of us would pray over that lady.

I liked to do this in January of each year. We would pray over each lady that God would use her this year to do His will, etc.

Always had a special of move of God.

We all fasted before coming that day.

Felicity
02-17-2007, 11:38 AM
Here is one.

I Timothy 5:10
Well reported of for good works; if she have brought up children, if she have lodged strangers, if she have washed the saints' feet, if she have relieved the afflicted, if she have diligently followed every good work.

Oi...well, there ya go...thank you...But that was talking about a custom in that culture and at that time. We don't do that in N.A. Never have because our customs here are different. We do things though to show our good works and service to others.

Esther
02-17-2007, 11:39 AM
But that was talking about a custom in that culture and at that time. We don't do that in N.A. Never have because our customs here are different. We do things though to show our good works and service to others.

Then why do you think he said "saints" feet instead of visitors feet?

Felicity
02-17-2007, 11:40 AM
Then why do you think he said "saints" feet instead of visitors feet?Saints came to visit. It was customary to wash the feet of visitors regardless if they were saints or visitors.

Felicity
02-17-2007, 11:41 AM
Then why do you think he said "saints" feet instead of visitors feet?

Saints came to visit. It was customary to wash the feet of visitors regardless if they were saints or visitors.Regardless, it has never been our custom in North America or in most western countries for that matter.

freeatlast
02-17-2007, 11:42 AM
Barb, I have never figures out how we can NOT do foot washing when Jesus clearly told the deciples this OUGHT you to do.

In fact, when Peter told Him not to wash his feet, Jesus told Peter if he didn't wash his feet he would have no part with Him. (paraphrased)

With that kind of emphasis being made how can we NOT do it???

YET, there are things that we do not do where there is no scripture that says one way or the other.

My question is IF Communion is continued then why not foot washing? Were they not done at the same time?

Where they not equally important?

I think we have become too proud to wash one anothers feet. And PRIDE WILL bring us down.

A thimball a grape juice and tiny piece of cracker ? I'm not so sure we do quite do communoin or the Lord's Supper as the early apostolic did.

As far as Peter having no part with the Lord if he if he did not allowed to wash him. The washing refered to was a cleansing of his soul by the blood, not a foot washing.

As far as being told we are to do unto each other as he did. Again humble service of the greater to the lesser is implied here. Not necesarily footwashing forever in the 21st century.

Footwashing was a common practice among Jews and others alike in Bible times. It was not something that was of religeous signifagance.

To make it a salvational issue... I can't quite fathom that.

If it is, then how many times does one have to wash feet to make it to heaven?

Is once enough...10 times enough??

Felicity
02-17-2007, 11:44 AM
A thimball a grape juice and tiny piece of cracker ? I'm not so sure we do quite do communoin or the Lord's Supper as the early apostolic did.

As far as Peter having no part with the Lord if he if he did not allowed to wash him. The washing refered to was a cleansing of his soul by the blood, not a foot washing.

As far as being told we are to do unto each other as he did. Again humble service of the greater to the lesser is implied here. Not necesarily footwashing forever in the 21st century.

Footwashing was a common practice among Jews and others alike in Bible times. It was not something that was of religeous signifagance.

To make it a salvational issue... I can't quite fathom that.

If it is, then how many times does one have to wash feet to make it to heaven?

Is once enough...10 times enough??Good response!

Esther
02-17-2007, 11:45 AM
Regardless, it has never been our custom in North America or in most western countries for that matter.

It is true it has never been our custom. But that is not what Jesus was about.

Consider it was their custom, so why would Peter be against it?

I think Jesus was teaching more than just a custom here. HE was teaching the need for us to be humble to one another.

Barb
02-17-2007, 11:46 AM
Then how do you define what specific time or person/persons? What was for them only and what is for everyone?

What is your determing factor?

Just curious.

I have brought this subject up myself.

Now, the way I personally like to do footwashing, is with ladies of like mindedness. When we gather together in our home after a time of fasting, and then wash each others feet and pray over them together.

For instance I would invite about 5-7 ladies to come over. We would have a time of prayer and then we would have one lady sit in the chair and we would each wash her feet and all of us would pray over that lady.

I liked to do this in January of each year. We would pray over each lady that God would use her this year to do His will, etc.

Always had a special of move of God.

We all fasted before coming that day.

That is what the study of hermeneutics is...determining when the Scripture was written, to whom and the purpose. It gives a clear interpretaion of the Word so that one doesn't follow every wind of doctrine.

So, without study and just from cursory reading, I took it as being for a specific moment and purpose.

But according to I Timothy 5:10, I was wrong...it was practiced in the early Church.

I am not too proud to admit my error, even if I don't care for FW...;)

Barb
02-17-2007, 11:47 AM
But that was talking about a custom in that culture and at that time. We don't do that in N.A. Never have because our customs here are different. We do things though to show our good works and service to others.

Oi now that makes sense...oh, I am so confused...!!:heeheehee

freeatlast
02-17-2007, 11:47 AM
There is no way to take the verse and Timothy and know it was in referenc eto a footwashing "service" or anything close to what the Lord did to the disciples at the Lords Supper.

It was used to know if a widow in that time had and was humbly serving others.

It more than likely referes to common household footwashing that widely practiced as a CUSTOM in that day.

Esther
02-17-2007, 11:49 AM
A thimball a grape juice and tiny piece of cracker ? I'm not so sure we do quite do communoin or the Lord's Supper as the early apostolic did.

As far as Peter having no part with the Lord if he if he did not allowed to wash him. The washing refered to was a cleansing of his soul by the blood, not a foot washing.

As far as being told we are to do unto each other as he did. Again humble service of the greater to the lesser is implied here. Not necesarily footwashing forever in the 21st century.

Footwashing was a common practice among Jews and others alike in Bible times. It was not something that was of religeous signifagance.

To make it a salvational issue... I can't quite fathom that.

If it is, then how many times does one have to wash feet to make it to heaven?

Is once enough...10 times enough??

I am not going to make this a salvation issue. I can't say that it is, although, when He told Peter, if he didn't allow Him to wash his feet then he would have no part of Him. I think that is pretty strong, don't you?

And as I stated already, yes footwashing was their custom, so why would Peter object to a custom?

I disagree that communion is all that is needed for washing. IF that were the case then why did Jesus wash their feet AFTER communion?

Felicity
02-17-2007, 11:50 AM
It is true it has never been our custom. But that is not what Jesus was about.

Consider it was their custom, so why would Peter be against it?

I think Jesus was teaching more than just a custom here. HE was teaching the need for us to be humble to one another.Exactly, and like I said in a previous post there are lots of ways we can demonstrate humility without going through a ritual i.e. washing feet which is never done in our culture because the 'world' we live in is different than that of the Middle East, there isn't the need for it here, and it's really just a sham. There are much more down to earth ways that really matters and makes a difference in peoples lives than washing their feet because someone has told us to do it.

It's really about service to others -- being willing to serve.

freeatlast
02-17-2007, 11:51 AM
It is true it has never been our custom. But that is not what Jesus was about.

Consider it was their custom, so why would Peter be against it?

I think Jesus was teaching more than just a custom here. HE was teaching the need for us to be humble to one another.

Peter had to much pride to let HIS GREATER serve him tha fassion.

Usally you washed your own feet. If your host was wealthty and had servants then you maight have your feet washed by a servant.

The wealthy house holder did not wash tha feet of the quest.

Barb
02-17-2007, 11:51 AM
There is no way to take the verse and Timothy and know it was in referenc eto a footwashing "service" or anything close to what the Lord did to the disciples at the Lords Supper.

It was used to know if a widow in that time had and was humbly serving others.

It more than likely referes to common household footwashing that widely practiced as a CUSTOM in that day.

Exactly, and like I said in a previous post there are lots of ways we can demonstrate humility without going through a ritual i.e. washing feet which is never done in our culture because the 'world' we live in is different than that of the Middle East, there isn't the need for it here, and it's really just a sham. There are much more down to earth ways that really matters and makes a difference in peoples lives than washing their feet because someone has told us to do it.

It's really about service to others -- being willing to serve.

Amen to both posts...:ty

Felicity
02-17-2007, 11:52 AM
There is no way to take the verse and Timothy and know it was in referenc eto a footwashing "service" or anything close to what the Lord did to the disciples at the Lords Supper.

It was used to know if a widow in that time had and was humbly serving others. :thumbsup

Esther
02-17-2007, 11:54 AM
I think this is where we can be like other religions we can find scripture to prove what WE WANT to believe. :)

Seek out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

freeatlast
02-17-2007, 12:00 PM
Here's a little article I wrote for a cover story on ninetyandnine a few years ago.
)__________________________________________-

Seriously, My Feet Are Clean - Footwashing in the 21st Century
By
May 2, 2005

When the announcement was made from the pulpit that your church was going to have a foot washing, did your heart leap for joy, or did you start making plans to be out of town?

Seriously, have you ever stopped to think why Jesus washed His disciples’ feet? Could it be just that they had disgustingly dirty feet?

We learn from Genesis that the people throughout Bible times would set aside a place where a guest might wash his feet (Genesis 18:4, 19:2, 24:32, 43:24), and they would bring the traveler water to do so. Their guests washed their own feet, much like your overnight guest might use your shower facilities.

Stop for a moment and realize it was the Master who washed the feet of the servants, not vice versa. He did this solely for the purpose to teach them to serve others, and that the greater should be a servant to the lesser.

To wash their feet was a practical service. There was water available because the disciples walked on dirty dusty trails and streets, unless perhaps it had recently rained. Then they would have been walking through mud. Don’t forget that oxen and mules walked these same paths and it was quite possible to step in some “exhaust pollution” of that days’ mode of transportation. He washed their feet as a humble act of kindness and service to them because their feet were dirty. It was customary 2,000 years ago for water basins and towels to be provided for your guests to wash their own feet. If you owned a slave, you might even have had your slave wash the feet of your guests.

That Made Sense Then…
When was the last time you went to a foot washing and actually needed your feet washed? Seriously, my feet aren’t dirty. But my shoes could use a good shining. My car got pretty dirty driving to church—could you wash that for me, please?

I shared these thoughts, tongue-in-cheek, with my pastor a few months ago. Months later as we planned a Good Friday service, I was happy when pastor asked if I would want to help in “washing the saints’ cars” that Friday afternoon before watching Mel Gibson’s The Passion of the Christ and taking communion together. So from 1 p.m. - 4 p.m., we washed anyone’s car that stopped by the church.

If we want to be Apostolic in what we do and follow Christ’s example, we should perform a valuable service to our brother or sister that would actually be of service to them. Remember, the disciples had dirty feet that needed washing. The Master blessed them with a wonderful act of kindness!

But My Feet are Clean
So many view footwashing today as, well, just so weird—even Apostolics. And when Apostolics think something is weird, well, that’s just scary.

The term “random acts of kindness” got stuck in my mind from something I read some time ago. That’s how we should live. Think how blessed someone will feel when you bestow a “help” upon them (1 Corinthians 12:28).

■ Take your mower and go mow someone’s lawn.

■ Load up your snow blower and go clean out someone’s driveway.

■ Take someone to dinner.

■ Watch someone’s kids so they can have a night out.

I’m sure you can think of 20 more random acts of kindness (or helps) that you can bestow on someone that would mean so much more to them than washing their feet, which hopefully in our day and age of indoor plumbing with baths and showers, are already clean.

But you could point out that they can easily cut their own grass or shovel their own snow. And you’d be right.

I can also wash my own feet.

The Essence of His Teaching
If we would allow ourselves to think about what was being taught to the disciples when Christ washed their feet … well, I just think we may have missed Christ’s intent on this lesson if we think washing someone’s “clean” feet is what our Lord wanted us to be doing here in America in this century.

I think there is laughter in heaven when Christ looks down at us and sees and hears some of the many things we major on. I wonder—will He look at some us when we get to the throne and say, “You spent all your time preaching about what?”

I hope that I see the day that we Apostolics might better discern the Scriptures and come to a realization that some things were written for doctrinal purposes and others were just written as a history of things they did in their day and time. (Like that Holy Kiss thing. Really brother, I love ya, but a handshake will do me just fine.)

Some tell me that’s wishful thinking; that most of us made up our minds (or had them made up for us) many years ago.

I’ve been told I’m just dreaming! I did go “north” of 50 about four years ago, so I guess that would make me an old man, so I am well qualified then to “dream dreams” as stated in Acts 2:17.

So I’ll dream of a church with people who truly love one another and do humble acts of service to others in their demonstrations of that love. If you stop by my house with a dirty car, I’ll probably wash it for you. If you need a ride somewhere, I’ll try to accommodate. If you need your house painted, I’d be glad to help.

But really, my feet are clean and hopefully yours are, too!

Neck
02-17-2007, 12:10 PM
If so, ignore me with my permission.

I am wondering, does anyone have proof, be it Scripture or Church historical letters/documents that the early Church practiced Foot Washing?

Was it a rite ordained by Christ and followed by the Saints of old, or have we taken an incident in the Bible and made it common practice?!:confused:

Not sure. However I have not been to a foot washing serice since 1987 or 1988. So not so sure of the common practice anymore?

Barb
02-17-2007, 12:55 PM
Here's a little article I wrote for a cover story on ninetyandnine a few years ago.
)__________________________________________-

Seriously, My Feet Are Clean - Footwashing in the 21st Century
By
May 2, 2005

When the announcement was made from the pulpit that your church was going to have a foot washing, did your heart leap for joy, or did you start making plans to be out of town?

Seriously, have you ever stopped to think why Jesus washed His disciples’ feet? Could it be just that they had disgustingly dirty feet?

We learn from Genesis that the people throughout Bible times would set aside a place where a guest might wash his feet (Genesis 18:4, 19:2, 24:32, 43:24), and they would bring the traveler water to do so. Their guests washed their own feet, much like your overnight guest might use your shower facilities.

Stop for a moment and realize it was the Master who washed the feet of the servants, not vice versa. He did this solely for the purpose to teach them to serve others, and that the greater should be a servant to the lesser.

To wash their feet was a practical service. There was water available because the disciples walked on dirty dusty trails and streets, unless perhaps it had recently rained. Then they would have been walking through mud. Don’t forget that oxen and mules walked these same paths and it was quite possible to step in some “exhaust pollution” of that days’ mode of transportation. He washed their feet as a humble act of kindness and service to them because their feet were dirty. It was customary 2,000 years ago for water basins and towels to be provided for your guests to wash their own feet. If you owned a slave, you might even have had your slave wash the feet of your guests.

That Made Sense Then…
When was the last time you went to a foot washing and actually needed your feet washed? Seriously, my feet aren’t dirty. But my shoes could use a good shining. My car got pretty dirty driving to church—could you wash that for me, please?

I shared these thoughts, tongue-in-cheek, with my pastor a few months ago. Months later as we planned a Good Friday service, I was happy when pastor asked if I would want to help in “washing the saints’ cars” that Friday afternoon before watching Mel Gibson’s The Passion of the Christ and taking communion together. So from 1 p.m. - 4 p.m., we washed anyone’s car that stopped by the church.

If we want to be Apostolic in what we do and follow Christ’s example, we should perform a valuable service to our brother or sister that would actually be of service to them. Remember, the disciples had dirty feet that needed washing. The Master blessed them with a wonderful act of kindness!

But My Feet are Clean
So many view footwashing today as, well, just so weird—even Apostolics. And when Apostolics think something is weird, well, that’s just scary.

The term “random acts of kindness” got stuck in my mind from something I read some time ago. That’s how we should live. Think how blessed someone will feel when you bestow a “help” upon them (1 Corinthians 12:28).

■ Take your mower and go mow someone’s lawn.

■ Load up your snow blower and go clean out someone’s driveway.

■ Take someone to dinner.

■ Watch someone’s kids so they can have a night out.

I’m sure you can think of 20 more random acts of kindness (or helps) that you can bestow on someone that would mean so much more to them than washing their feet, which hopefully in our day and age of indoor plumbing with baths and showers, are already clean.

But you could point out that they can easily cut their own grass or shovel their own snow. And you’d be right.

I can also wash my own feet.

The Essence of His Teaching
If we would allow ourselves to think about what was being taught to the disciples when Christ washed their feet … well, I just think we may have missed Christ’s intent on this lesson if we think washing someone’s “clean” feet is what our Lord wanted us to be doing here in America in this century.

I think there is laughter in heaven when Christ looks down at us and sees and hears some of the many things we major on. I wonder—will He look at some us when we get to the throne and say, “You spent all your time preaching about what?”

I hope that I see the day that we Apostolics might better discern the Scriptures and come to a realization that some things were written for doctrinal purposes and others were just written as a history of things they did in their day and time. (Like that Holy Kiss thing. Really brother, I love ya, but a handshake will do me just fine.)

Some tell me that’s wishful thinking; that most of us made up our minds (or had them made up for us) many years ago.

I’ve been told I’m just dreaming! I did go “north” of 50 about four years ago, so I guess that would make me an old man, so I am well qualified then to “dream dreams” as stated in Acts 2:17.

So I’ll dream of a church with people who truly love one another and do humble acts of service to others in their demonstrations of that love. If you stop by my house with a dirty car, I’ll probably wash it for you. If you need a ride somewhere, I’ll try to accommodate. If you need your house painted, I’d be glad to help.

But really, my feet are clean and hopefully yours are, too!

Good article...:highfive

SDG
02-17-2007, 01:21 PM
Now ... Im not sure but wasn't Timothy's mother Jewish??? ... if so did she wash their feet because it was a Jewish tradition or because of it being a Christian ordinance?