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ReformedDave
02-19-2007, 02:24 PM
What makes sin sin is not first that it hurts people, but that it blasphemes God. This is the ultimate evil and the ultimate outrage in the universe.

The glory of God is not honored.
The holiness of God is not reverenced.
The greatness of God is not admired.
The power of God is not praised.
The truth of God is not sought.
The wisdom of God is not esteemed.
The beauty of God is not treasured.
The goodness of God is not savored.
The faithfulness of God is not trusted.
The promises of God are not relied upon.
The commandments of God are not obeyed.
The justice of God is not respected.
The wrath of God is not feared.
The grace of God is not cherished.
The presence of God is not prized.
The person of God is not loved.

The infinite, all-glorious Creator of the universe, by whom and for whom all things exist (Rom. 11:36) – who holds every person’s life in being at every moment (Acts 17:25) – is disregarded, disbelieved, disobeyed, and dishonored by everybody in the world. That is the ultimate outrage of the universe.

Why is it that people can become emotionally and morally indignant over poverty and exploitation and prejudice and the injustice of man against man and yet feel little or no remorse or indignation that God is so belittled? It’s because of sin. That is what sin is. Sin is esteeming and valuing and honoring and enjoying man and his creations above God. So even our man-centered anger at the hurt of sin is part of sin. God is marginal in human life. That is our sin, our condition.

- John Piper, Overview of Romans 1-7, 09/02/2001.

Felicity
02-19-2007, 02:26 PM
Awesome!

Honestly ....... I just wonder if the average church attender understands much about God at all. My observation is that they don't.

ReformedDave
02-19-2007, 02:39 PM
Awesome!

Honestly ....... I just wonder if the average church attender understands much about God at all. My observation is that they don't.

I'm just beginning to realize how much I don't.

One thing is to keep God the focus and that we do what we do for Him and not for us. It's not about us.

When I hear someone say that 'we had a great service' I wonder what does that really mean.

Barb
02-19-2007, 02:40 PM
What makes sin sin is not first that it hurts people, but that it blasphemes God. This is the ultimate evil and the ultimate outrage in the universe.

The glory of God is not honored.
The holiness of God is not reverenced.
The greatness of God is not admired.
The power of God is not praised.
The truth of God is not sought.
The wisdom of God is not esteemed.
The beauty of God is not treasured.
The goodness of God is not savored.
The faithfulness of God is not trusted.
The promises of God are not relied upon.
The commandments of God are not obeyed.
The justice of God is not respected.
The wrath of God is not feared.
The grace of God is not cherished.
The presence of God is not prized.
The person of God is not loved.

The infinite, all-glorious Creator of the universe, by whom and for whom all things exist (Rom. 11:36) – who holds every person’s life in being at every moment (Acts 17:25) – is disregarded, disbelieved, disobeyed, and dishonored by everybody in the world. That is the ultimate outrage of the universe.

Why is it that people can become emotionally and morally indignant over poverty and exploitation and prejudice and the injustice of man against man and yet feel little or no remorse or indignation that God is so belittled? It’s because of sin. That is what sin is. Sin is esteeming and valuing and honoring and enjoying man and his creations above God. So even our man-centered anger at the hurt of sin is part of sin. God is marginal in human life. That is our sin, our condition.

- John Piper, Overview of Romans 1-7, 09/02/2001.

This is a great question. The answer given is not the one folks want to hear or believe, but is absolutely true.

Barb
02-19-2007, 02:41 PM
I'm just beginning to realize how much I don't.

One thing is to keep God the focus and that we do what we do for Him and not for us. It's not about us.

When I hear someone say that 'we had a great service' I wonder what does that really mean.

Wow!! That gave me pause...

ReformedDave
02-19-2007, 02:43 PM
Wow!! That gave me pause...

Since our service is for Him I wonder if He ever says "Wow! We had a great service"......as long as I'm there I doubt it.

Barb
02-19-2007, 02:52 PM
Since our service is for Him I wonder if He ever says "Wow! We had a great service"......as long as I'm there I doubt it.

Hmmm...

Felicity
02-19-2007, 02:54 PM
I'm just beginning to realize how much I don't.

One thing is to keep God the focus and that we do what we do for Him and not for us. It's not about us.

When I hear someone say that 'we had a great service' I wonder what does that really mean.Well the thing is most of the things listed below .....

The glory of God
The holiness of God
The greatness of God
The power of God
The truth of God
The wisdom of God
The beauty of God
The goodness of God
The faithfulness of God
The promises of God a
The commandments
The justice of God is
The wrath of God
The grace of God
The presence of God
The person of God

..... are attributes of God. Not all but most. I really don't think that many church members have any real in depth understanding of those things. I find overall people's understanding of God i.e. His attributes, his Person, His omniscience and omnipotence, etc. is very shallow. It's evidenced in their conversation and their manner of living as well.

I don't mean to be saying this in a judgmental way or with an attitude that I have a superior understanding an knowledge but compared to the average churchgoer in apostolic ranks I might. :)

Seems like so much of their understanding and knowledge of God is wrapped up in Acts 2:38 and standards.

ReformedDave
02-19-2007, 03:02 PM
Well the thing is most of the things listed below .....

The glory of God
The holiness of God
The greatness of God
The power of God
The truth of God
The wisdom of God
The beauty of God
The goodness of God
The faithfulness of God
The promises of God a
The commandments
The justice of God is
The wrath of God
The grace of God
The presence of God
The person of God

..... are attributes of God. Not all but most. I really don't think that many church members have any real in depth understanding of those things. I find overall people's understanding of God i.e. His attributes, his Person, His omniscience and omnipotence, etc. is very shallow. It's evidenced in their conversation and their manner of living as well.

I don't mean to be saying this in a judgmental way or with an attitude that I have a superior understanding an knowledge but compared to the average churchgoer in apostolic ranks I might. :)

Seems like so much of their understanding and knowledge of God is wrapped up in Acts 2:38 and standards.

The more I 'know' the more I 'don't'.

Barb
02-19-2007, 03:03 PM
The more I 'know' the more I 'don't'.

Ain't that the truth...not referring to you, sir, but myself...

ReformedDave
02-19-2007, 03:09 PM
Ain't that the truth...not referring to you, sir, but myself...

It's oK. You can refer to me!

Barb
02-19-2007, 03:14 PM
Well the thing is most of the things listed below .....

The glory of God
The holiness of God
The greatness of God
The power of God
The truth of God
The wisdom of God
The beauty of God
The goodness of God
The faithfulness of God
The promises of God a
The commandments
The justice of God is
The wrath of God
The grace of God
The presence of God
The person of God

..... are attributes of God. Not all but most. I really don't think that many church members have any real in depth understanding of those things. I find overall people's understanding of God i.e. His attributes, his Person, His omniscience and omnipotence, etc. is very shallow. It's evidenced in their conversation and their manner of living as well.

I don't mean to be saying this in a judgmental way or with an attitude that I have a superior understanding and knowledge but compared to the average churchgoer in apostolic ranks I might. :)

Seems like so much of their understanding and knowledge of God is wrapped up in Acts 2:38 and standards.
This is true when we realize that holiness is not something we do, rather holiness is who/what we are.

ReformedDave
02-19-2007, 03:17 PM
This is true when we realize that holiness is not something we do, rather holiness is who/what we are.

Actually it's a reflection of what we think He is.........

mizpeh
02-20-2007, 09:00 AM
BUMP!!!!

Chan
02-20-2007, 09:08 AM
Well the thing is most of the things listed below .....

The glory of God
The holiness of God
The greatness of God
The power of God
The truth of God
The wisdom of God
The beauty of God
The goodness of God
The faithfulness of God
The promises of God a
The commandments
The justice of God is
The wrath of God
The grace of God
The presence of God
The person of God

..... are attributes of God. Not all but most. I really don't think that many church members have any real in depth understanding of those things. I find overall people's understanding of God i.e. His attributes, his Person, His omniscience and omnipotence, etc. is very shallow. It's evidenced in their conversation and their manner of living as well.

I don't mean to be saying this in a judgmental way or with an attitude that I have a superior understanding an knowledge but compared to the average churchgoer in apostolic ranks I might. :)

Seems like so much of their understanding and knowledge of God is wrapped up in Acts 2:38 and standards.Perhaps the best book on the subject of God's attributes is Stephen Charnock's The Existence and Attributes of God.

By the way, the lack of understanding about the attributes of God is not limited to the Apostolic ranks. The problem, I think, is that so many Christians keep saying they don't want to hear preachers talk about doctrine from the pulpit but they want preachers to make them feel good about themselves.