Ministers that leave the UPCI

[Disciple4life]

Isn’t strange that after ministers leave the UPCI they keep a low profile. They may still pastor a church, but it is very hard to find out information on them or their current beliefs. Pastors that leave the UPCI usually do not write a book on their new beliefs. If they do it is sold out or out of print very quickly. The same goes for websites.

I am not saying there is a Pentecostal Mafia, BUT it sure does seem suspicious.
So who am I talking about? Robert Sabin is one. I am sure there are many more.
The Pentecostal Publishing House and Word Aflame Press has given the UPCI a megaphone to drown out anybody who disagrees with them.

I have no beef with the UPCI and I am not talking ill of them either. It just seems that more Pentecostal publishers would be a good thing.

BUT it is suspicious. :nod

[LifeGuide]

I'm not so sure there's a "conspiracy". But I do think your statement bears some merit. Sabin, Yadon, Wasmundt, (just a few who have authored books who are pretty much off the radar) and the list goes on and on...

[Disciple4life]

I am always on the look out for new books.

Do you have any titles of books by Yadon, Wasmendt ect...? Or where to find them?

No, No, Conspiracy is such an ugly word. I just seems curious. :nah

[Esaias]

I thought PPH was the publishing arm of the UPCI?

The ALJC has their own publishing arm as well, I believe.

[Esaias]

'Say not, a conspiracy'.

[Disciple4life]

I thought PPH was the publishing arm of the UPCI?

The ALJC has their own publishing arm as well, I believe.

The PPH is the publishing arm of the UPCI. Sorry for the confusion.

If the ALJC has a website that sells their books I sure can't find it. I have searched many times.

OOPPSS? I found it, my bad.

[n david]

"Neo-Phariseeism" and "Pendulum Extremes" are two by David Wasmundt.

[Disciple4life]

"Neo-Phariseeism" and "Pendulum Extremes" are two by David Wasmundt.

Thank you!
:yourock

[LifeGuide]

I will add that it's fairly difficult to get your hands on any recordings of these men as well as those of more recent men who have left the org. I personally know of a man who served on staff at one of the larger churches in the upci. He left his position with high regard. The church no longer offers any of his messages preached in the 10+ years he served. Just an observation.

[LifeGuide]

Yadon wrote what used to be one of the foremost used discipleship books. "From An Acorn To An Oak". There's one available on eBay for $100. He also wrote an excellent book on Joseph. As well as a few more titles.

[Disciple4life]

I read Christianity Without the Cross, that is why I even know any of these ministers.

I bought a book by Kenneth Reeves at
http://www.thelastcommissionministries.com/#!books

I bought a book by Ralph Reynolds off of Amazon. He also has a website here
http://www.alphabiblepublications.com/index.htm

I noticed that he has The Alpha Bible Course for sale on this site. The PPH offers the same coarse. I wonder if the PPH version is "cleaned up"?

[Abiding Now]

It's not only liberals, when Crawford Coon got out of the UPCI to lead the WPF, the PPH pulled all of his material.

[Ferd]

Isn’t strange that after ministers leave the UPCI they keep a low profile. They may still pastor a church, but it is very hard to find out information on them or their current beliefs. Pastors that leave the UPCI usually do not write a book on their new beliefs. If they do it is sold out or out of print very quickly. The same goes for websites.

I am not saying there is a Pentecostal Mafia, BUT it sure does seem suspicious.
So who am I talking about? Robert Sabin is one. I am sure there are many more.
The Pentecostal Publishing House and Word Aflame Press has given the UPCI a megaphone to drown out anybody who disagrees with them.

I have no beef with the UPCI and I am not talking ill of them either. It just seems that more Pentecostal publishers would be a good thing.

BUT it is suspicious. :nod

LOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!

Waaaachu talking 'bout Willis????????????????????


Dude have you lost your mind? Have you heard of Scott Jones??????

So some guy you like left the org and no longer has a platform to sell books etc, and all the suddent Word Aflame and the UPCI are bullies that beat down poor preacherwholeftman? What? By their very existance?

I suppose the UPCI needs to just SHUT UP? or better yet, turn the publishing house over to those who left?

seriously you need to find a couch with a bespeckeled german accented psychiatrist to talk to.

[Abiding Now]

LOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!

Waaaachu talking 'bout Willis????????????????????


Dude have you lost your mind? Have you heard of Scott Jones??????

So some guy you like left the org and no longer has a platform to sell books etc, and all the suddent Word Aflame and the UPCI are bullies that beat down poor preacherwholeftman? What? By their very existance?

I suppose the UPCI needs to just SHUT UP? or better yet, turn the publishing house over to those who left?

seriously you need to find a couch with a bespeckeled german accented psychiatrist to talk to.

I agree.

The PPL has the RIGHT to sell or not sell whatever they please.

While they refused to sell Crawford Coon's material, they chose to sell T.D. Jake's material.

Like it or not, it's THEIR right.


jmho

[Disciple4life]

LOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!

Waaaachu talking 'bout Willis????????????????????


Dude have you lost your mind? Have you heard of Scott Jones??????

So some guy you like left the org and no longer has a platform to sell books etc, and all the suddent Word Aflame and the UPCI are bullies that beat down poor preacherwholeftman? What? By their very existance?

I suppose the UPCI needs to just SHUT UP? or better yet, turn the publishing house over to those who left?

seriously you need to find a couch with a bespeckeled german accented psychiatrist to talk to.

I didn't say the PPH should not exist. I do not care what the PPH does. I made an observation. I did not call for everybody to get torches and pitchforks.

But by your response it sounds like you would like me to shut up and not exist. Everybody can ask questions as long as they agree with you?

[KWSS1976]

Esaias, per your commit below

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I thought PPH was the publishing arm of the UPCI?

The ALJC has their own publishing arm as well, I believe.


I went to a ALJC church and our Sunday school material came from (A Worldaflame Press) with I believe is a UPCI company..That was so funny to cause when we left our church I talked to the preacher and mentioned he be petecost and he said he was not, I scratched my head not understanding that statement seeing as where we got our reading material from and the sign outside said (Pentecostal church) I think the ALJC is just not big enough to have a publising company thats why they use the above mentioned....

[Disciple4life]

Isn’t strange that after ministers leave the UPCI they keep a low profile. They may still pastor a church, but it is very hard to find out information on them or their current beliefs. Pastors that leave the UPCI usually do not write a book on their new beliefs. If they do it is sold out or out of print very quickly. The same goes for websites.

I am not saying there is a Pentecostal Mafia, BUT it sure does seem suspicious.
So who am I talking about? Robert Sabin is one. I am sure there are many more.
The Pentecostal Publishing House and Word Aflame Press has given the UPCI a megaphone to drown out anybody who disagrees with them.

I have no beef with the UPCI and I am not talking ill of them either. It just seems that more Pentecostal publishers would be a good thing.

BUT it is suspicious. :nod

This is my first post. These are the points I made.

1. It is hard to find materials from the ministers that leave.
2. The PPH is the biggest publisher.
3. More Pentecostal publishers would be a good thing.

I can not see how someone could think I was saying that I should have the power to regulate someone else's business. AND I said I have no beef with PPH. WOW has anybody read my signature.

[Ferd]

I didn't say the PPH should not exist. I do not care what the PPH does. I made an observation. I did not call for everybody to get torches and pitchforks.

But by your response it sounds like you would like me to shut up and not exist. Everybody can ask questions as long as they agree with you?

im good with you not shutting up.

but when you say something that is just so clearly not so.... well... err... uhm....


there you go.


People who have left the UPCI have certainly NOT shut up. or been pounced on by the UPCI Mafia.

Ever hear of Tommy Tenny and his goD splitting pulpit? dude even made a movie after he left the UPCI.

[Ferd]

This is my first post. These are the points I made.

1. It is hard to find materials from the ministers that leave.
2. The PPH is the biggest publisher.
3. More Pentecostal publishers would be a good thing.

I can not see how someone could think I was saying that I should have the power to regulate someone else's business. AND I said I have no beef with PPH. WOW has anybody read my signature.

if this had been your OP, (opening post) I would have pretty much moved along.

but that isnt how you said it.

including things like:
I am not saying there is a Pentecostal Mafia, BUT it sure does seem suspicious.


leaves me with a bad taste and a willingness to say something more directly...

[ILG]

We left the UPC and left after pastoring for 10 years. I wrote a book and then never published it. I'm afraid my peaceful life would be destroyed. Yup. :nod

[Disciple4life]

I think you are misunderstanding me. Let's all calm down.

I do not know Scott Jones. Was he in the Monkeyes?

I do not know Tommy Tenny.

I never left the UPCI. I will go worship with anybody.
I apologize I might have come off as rash. But still at least we are talking.

[n david]

Guess I didn't get the memo. I left the UPC years ago, should I write a book too? :hmmm :)

[Disciple4life]

if this had been your OP, (opening post) I would have pretty much moved along.

but that isnt how you said it.

including things like:
I am not saying there is a Pentecostal Mafia, BUT it sure does seem suspicious.


leaves me with a bad taste and a willingness to say something more directly...

I was just being sarcastic and telling a little joke. I thought it was funny. I didn't mean to get you upset. This is how I joke with people. Maybe that is why I don't have any friends.:sad

[Esaias]

Esaias, per your commit below

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




I went to a ALJC church and our Sunday school material came from (A Worldaflame Press) with I believe is a UPCI company..That was so funny to cause when we left our church I talked to the preacher and mentioned he be petecost and he said he was not, I scratched my head not understanding that statement seeing as where we got our reading material from and the sign outside said (Pentecostal church) I think the ALJC is just not big enough to have a publising company thats why they use the above mentioned....

Well, they do have a bookstore - https://pentecostalbookstore.com/bookstore/

[Disciple4life]

Guess I didn't get the memo. I left the UPC years ago, should I write a book too? :hmmm :)

O.K. I don't want anybody to write a book. I don't want the PPH to go out of business. I didn't mean to offend or not offend anyone. I didn't mean to start a controversial thread. Can't we all just get along? :heeheehee

[Ferd]

I think you are misunderstanding me. Let's all calm down.

I do not know Scott Jones. Was he in the Monkeyes?

I do not know Tommy Tenny.

I never left the UPCI. I will go worship with anybody.
I apologize I might have come off as rash. But still at least we are talking.

you are hard to be fussy with.

I appologize for amping up the temp in the room!

Tommy Tenny wrote God Chasers after leaving the UPCI. You should check into the book. You will find he did quite well with that. He wrote at least one more book, then made a movie about Esther. It wasnt bad. Im not saying Oscar calaber but I didnt wish I could get those minutes of my life back.

Scott Jones left the UPCI and has started a new organization that includes OPs and non-OPs. As a general rule you can call them pentecostals who believe you are saved when you repent and are pretty mainstream orthodox christian.

Its a pretty big group. If they dont have a publishing house, I suspect they have access on some level.

I suspect the guys that left that have stopped being in the spotlight have gone quiet because they chose to.

[n david]

O.K. I don't want anybody to write a book. I don't want the PPH to go out of business. I didn't mean to offend or not offend anyone. I didn't mean to start a controversial thread. Can't we all just get along? :heeheehee
Well, if I did write a book, it'd be a NY Times best seller. Ha!

[Ferd]

LOL! Im UPCI. If I ever get around to writing the book, ive got bouncing around in my head, I dont want WoF to be the publisher! LOL

[n david]

I suspect the guys that left that have stopped being in the spotlight have gone quiet because they chose to.
Not just that, but do UPC'ers even know there are books by non-UPC'ers? Are they aware there are other Christian, even other Pentecostal, authors out there?

:toofunny


I'm kidding, I'm kidding!

[Disciple4life]

Ferd "you are hard to be fussy with".

:thumbsup

[Disciple4life]

Not just that, but do UPC'ers even know there are books by non-UPC'ers? Are they aware there are other Christian, even other Pentecostal, authors out there?

:toofunny


I'm kidding, I'm kidding!

No you actually bring up a great point. Are there any Apostolic Fiction Books?

[navygoat1998]

No you actually bring up a great point. Are there any Apostolic Fiction Books?

:largehalo

[Disciple4life]

Maybe I should write one. And I could come out with the first Apostolic sitcom too. I am a genius!!! :happydance

[Jermyn Davidson]

No you actually bring up a great point. Are there any Apostolic Fiction Books?

BWAHAHAHA!!!!!

There's so many directions one could go with such an innocent question.

[Disciple4life]

NO NO NO!!! I didn't mean it like that.

I was wondering if there was an Apostolic Christian that wrote Apostolic themed fiction books.

[n david]

I was wondering if there was an Apostolic Christian that wrote Apostolic themed fiction books.
I think RRH wrote a couple...

:nod :toofunny

[Disciple4life]

RRH?

[ILG]

O.K. I don't want anybody to write a book. I don't want the PPH to go out of business. I didn't mean to offend or not offend anyone. I didn't mean to start a controversial thread. Can't we all just get along? :heeheehee

You haven't been around long, have you? :heeheehee

[ILG]

If I do write a book to be published at some point, it will probably be "fiction". :)

[Ferd]

Not just that, but do UPC'ers even know there are books by non-UPC'ers? Are they aware there are other Christian, even other Pentecostal, authors out there?

:toofunny


I'm kidding, I'm kidding!

LOL! the adults at my church do! We are going thru Purpose Drivin Life right now.

[n david]

LOL! the adults at my church do! We are going thru Purpose Drivin Life right now.
Heresy! That right there could get your license pulled! :lol When I was in the UPC, I heard a lot about how UPC'ers don't read anything that isn't published by WAP/PPH. It's not true, of course, but that was the rub I heard a lot back in the day.

[n david]

RRH?

http://pentecostalpublishing.com/node/5531

http://pentecostalpublishing.com/node/5709

:icecream

[Disciple4life]

Wow!!! those are the only two fiction books on the website that are not pioneer romance novels.

[RandyWayne]

http://pentecostalpublishing.com/node/5531

http://pentecostalpublishing.com/node/5709

:icecream

I am willing to bet they would sell a TON of these if converted to audio book format and narrated by Cote de Pablo.


Wow!!! those are the only two fiction books on the website that are not pioneer romance novels.

:slaphappy

[Praxeas]

Isn’t strange that after ministers leave the UPCI they keep a low profile. They may still pastor a church, but it is very hard to find out information on them or their current beliefs. Pastors that leave the UPCI usually do not write a book on their new beliefs. If they do it is sold out or out of print very quickly. The same goes for websites.

I am not saying there is a Pentecostal Mafia, BUT it sure does seem suspicious.
So who am I talking about? Robert Sabin is one. I am sure there are many more.
The Pentecostal Publishing House and Word Aflame Press has given the UPCI a megaphone to drown out anybody who disagrees with them.

I have no beef with the UPCI and I am not talking ill of them either. It just seems that more Pentecostal publishers would be a good thing.

BUT it is suspicious. :nod
Sabin was never High Profile except in UPCI circles. The only time anyone heard of him outside of the UPC is when they watched the Ancherberg Show. He was not a prolific author before leaving.

Sabin belongs to no group. The UPCI has nothing to do with whether or not he publishes anything nor does the PPH

It's suspicious that you find it suspicious, thats all

[navygoat1998]

Sabin was never High Profile except in UPCI circles. The only time anyone heard of him outside of the UPC is when they watched the Ancherberg Show. He was not a prolific author before leaving.

Sabin belongs to no group. The UPCI has nothing to do with whether or not he publishes anything nor does the PPH

It's suspicious that you find it suspicious, thats all

:tinfoil :couch

[Praxeas]

Here's the thing. It costs money to print and publish someone elses books and carry it as inventory. If nobody is buying it's just taking up space

If Saban wanted to, or someone else, they can self publish and sell on Amazon

[Disciple4life]

Sabin was never High Profile except in UPCI circles. The only time anyone heard of him outside of the UPC is when they watched the Ancherberg Show. He was not a prolific author before leaving.

Sabin belongs to no group. The UPCI has nothing to do with whether or not he publishes anything nor does the PPH

It's suspicious that you find it suspicious, thats all

Ah, you make a great point! Mr. Sabin was not a prolific writer before his departure so why would that change? I guess I must agree with you on this point.

You calling out my suspicion makes me think there is something suspicious about you. :heeheehee

[Praxeas]

Ah, you make a great point! Mr. Sabin was not a prolific writer before his departure so why would that change? I guess I must agree with you on this point.

You calling out my suspicion makes me think there is something suspicious about you. :heeheehee
You saying Im suspicious because I called out your suspicion is highly suspicious.....

[Disciple4life]

Here's the thing. It costs money to print and publish someone elses books and carry it as inventory. If nobody is buying it's just taking up space

If Saban wanted to, or someone else, they can self publish and sell on Amazon

No I get that. I totally understand the money thing.
My argument is starting to fall apart. But, Kenneth Reeves and Ralph Reynolds both published books outside of PPH. That did not agree with UPCI on certain things. To my knowledge there was not a fuss about it from the UPCI. I dunnow!

Wasn't there a guy who had a church in Nashville who left like in 1985 or something. Why didn't he write a book?
I looked on the internet like five times! I couldn't find it! :blah

[Disciple4life]

You saying Im suspicious because I called out your suspicion is highly suspicious.....

Do not go look out you window! Nobody is watching you from the vehicle with government license plates on it.

[Praxeas]

No I get that. I totally understand the money thing.
My argument is starting to fall apart. But, Kenneth Reeves and Ralph Reynolds both published books outside of PPH. That did not agree with UPCI on certain things. To my knowledge there was not a fuss about it from the UPCI. I dunnow!

Wasn't there a guy who had a church in Nashville who left like in 1985 or something. Why didn't he write a book?
I looked on the internet like five times! I couldn't find it! :blah
Reeves was more a prolific author

There is nothing preventing Sabin from self publishing and selling on line through his own website or on other venders

BTW there's no conspiracy. It's pretty obvious they don't sell Sabin's stuff because he left.

The UPC is too small to exert control over someone not writing a book. As I said ANYONE can write and publish their own book if they want. You can do it online now adays

How is the UPC supposed to prevent someone from writing a book? That makes no sense. Do they collaborate with the CIA and use the Mind Ray to subvert the thoughts of these former UPCers?

[n david]

Wasn't there a guy who had a church in Nashville who left like in 1985 or something. Why didn't he write a book?
I looked on the internet like five times! I couldn't find it! :blah
Christ Church? L H Hardwick?

[Praxeas]

the only people that write books, generally, are those that have a reason to believe someone will buy them. If you are Independent and NOT on TV, view know or care how "big" your church is outside of your city.

There are actually a LOT of large churches the size of Christ Church most of us never heard of because they are not on TV.

[Disciple4life]

the only people that write books, generally, are those that have a reason to believe someone will buy them. If you are Independent and NOT on TV, view know or care how "big" your church is outside of your city.

There are actually a LOT of large churches the size of Christ Church most of us never heard of because they are not on TV.

It was never my intent that the UPCI was bullying people. That is why I threw the JOKE in there. I agree with everything you said in this post. Ministers write books when they think there is a demand.

Finally a logical argument. :happydance

[houston]

No you actually bring up a great point. Are there any Apostolic Fiction Books?Yes. Anything by David Bernard.

[MarcBee]

Yes. Anything by David Bernard.

:heeheehee

[KeptByTheWord]

Wasn't there some guy on here a while back, maybe a year or so, who left the UPC, and said he had a "hair cutting party" or something to that effect? I can't remember his name, but he was on here advertising a book that he had written... anyone know who I'm referring to?

I also know MF Blume, who occasionally posts here, also left the UPC, and has recently written quite a few books. I always enjoyed his posts, and thoughts, even though he doesn't post much here any more, and even though I didn't always agree... he was an intellectual, and kind during discussions.

[KeptByTheWord]

If I do write a book to be published at some point, it will probably be "fiction". :)

Writing it in a "fiction" genre would probably be best.... perhaps the most peaceful way to do it!

[Esaias]

I also know MF Blume, who occasionally posts here, also left the UPC, and has recently written quite a few books. I always enjoyed his posts, and thoughts, even though he doesn't post much here any more, and even though I didn't always agree... he was an intellectual, and kind during discussions.

Agreed! Not only that, but he maintains integrity in formal debate as well.

[houston]

Wasn't there some guy on here a while back, maybe a year or so, who left the UPC, and said he had a "hair cutting party" yeah. His wife sat on the altar of the church (before they had it removed). He raised the scissors to the air and they shimmered in the production stage lights. CHOP! CUT! The hair of bondage fell to the floor. The wife jumped off of the altar and began to yell "I'm free! I'm free!" She even spoke in tongues.

People walked up to the front of the church. They passed the scissors around, one by one. There were too many women wanting this freedom so they got all the scissors from the Sunday school dept.

[houston]

yeah. His wife sat on the altar of the church (before they had it removed). He raised the scissors to the air and they shimmered in the production stage lights. CHOP! CUT! The hair of bondage fell to the floor. The wife jumped off of the altar and began to yell "I'm free! I'm free!" She even spoke in tongues. People walked up to the front of the church. They passed the scissors around, one by one. There were too many women wanting this freedom so they got all the scissors from the Sunday school dept.Nevah happened

[Sasha]

I want to know how many ex UPC ministers recommend books written by UPC people are they leave?

[CC1]

dunnow!

Wasn't there a guy who had a church in Nashville who left like in 1985 or something. Why didn't he write a book?
I looked on the internet like five times! I couldn't find it! :blah

As someone else mentioned I think you are probably referring to Pastor L.H. Hardwick who was Sr. Pastor of Christ Church Nashville for over 50 years until he retired a few years ago.

I attended Christ Church for about nine or ten years and don't think Pastor Hardwick felt his calling was to be an author. His calling was to be a pastor and he was a fabulous one!

He started pastoring CC when he was 18 or 19 years old and held a full time job and did fundraisers like church folks selling donuts on the weekends to make ends meet. He left the UPC in 1989 I believe. Christ Church grew from a small group of people to around 4,000 at the time of his retirement.

While he did not write a book he was asked to present a paper at Oxford University in England that there used to be a print copy of on the church website. Don't know if it is still there.

[CC1]

Even though the book is several decades old now I recommend David Wasmundt's book Neo Phariseeism that was brought up in this thread. Particularly for those who have been raised with a very legalistic mindset and would like to see a different view from what they have heard preached and taught in old time Pentecost for the most part.

Here is a link to the author's webiste and book order page;

http://www.wordonwings.com/wow-store.html

[tv1a]

Yes. Anything by David Bernard.



Best line on this thread ever.

[Jason B]

I didn't say the PPH should not exist. I do not care what the PPH does. I made an observation. I did not call for everybody to get torches and pitchforks.

But by your response it sounds like you would like me to shut up and not exist. Everybody can ask questions as long as they agree with you?

That's how Ferd rolls....if you're not UPC he treats you like MSNBC treats the Tea Party.

[jediwill83]

yeah. His wife sat on the altar of the church (before they had it removed). He raised the scissors to the air and they shimmered in the production stage lights. CHOP! CUT! The hair of bondage fell to the floor. The wife jumped off of the altar and began to yell "I'm free! I'm free!" She even spoke in tongues.

People walked up to the front of the church. They passed the scissors around, one by one. There were too many women wanting this freedom so they got all the scissors from the Sunday school dept.


Is it wrong that Im imagining what a pain it is to try and cut hair with safety scissors?

[houston]

Is it wrong that Im imagining what a pain it is to try and cut hair with safety scissors?
Lol. Why did you dig this up? It’s my telling of a fabricated story spread about a hair cutting party that never took place at a church pastored by a former poster.

[houston]

Guess I didn't get the memo. I left the UPC years ago, should I write a book too? :hmmm :)

Yes

[CC1]

Wow! Another golden oldie thread from 5 years ago!

[Steve Epley]

Even though the book is several decades old now I recommend David Wasmundt's book Neo Phariseeism that was brought up in this thread. Particularly for those who have been raised with a very legalistic mindset and would like to see a different view from what they have heard preached and taught in old time Pentecost for the most part.

Here is a link to the author's webiste and book order page;

http://www.wordonwings.com/wow-store.html

:heeheehee

[Evang.Benincasa]

Even though the book is several decades old now I recommend David Wasmundt's book Neo Phariseeism that was brought up in this thread. Particularly for those who have been raised with a very legalistic mindset and would like to see a different view from what they have heard preached and taught in old time Pentecost for the most part.

Here is a link to the author's webiste and book order page;

http://www.wordonwings.com/wow-store.html

I didn't know Carhartt is now an Armani company?

[RachelRose]

Yadon wrote what used to be one of the foremost used discipleship books. "From An Acorn To An Oak". There's one available on eBay for $100. He also wrote an excellent book on Joseph. As well as a few more titles.

Here is the front and back of my original copy of Brother Yadon's book.
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/album.php?albumid=300&pictureid=1674
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/album.php?albumid=300&pictureid=1673

I had a conversation with him many years ago in his office (it was just to the left of the lobby entrance of the old POA church) which I still remember today. I asked him about the "mark of the beast."

He said it would never happen because the mafia would lose too much money.

[CC1]

I didn't know Carhartt is now an Armani company?

Apparently things change in five years !

[Evang.Benincasa]

Apparently things change in five years !

I wonder if Ermenegildo Zegna will add a work clothes line?