View Full Version : Appearance of inconsistency
OP_Carl
06-06-2007, 09:23 AM
There have been a couple threads here lately that have highlighted the apparent inconsistency in Pentecost that we preach against many of the addictive and damaging influences of the world, but we seldom preach or teach on gluttony.
That got me to thinking . . . . Fundamentalist Eastern Orthodox Christians and Catholics believe that birth control is wrong. The bible support for this stance seems fairly plain to me.
Why don't Apostolics teach on this topic?
Support for a stance against BC:
God's commandment to Noah to re-populate the earth was not rescinded.
Children are to be considered blessings from God is a consistent thematic element in the bible.
Many popular forms of BC are chemical abortifacents, i.e. they cause zygotes and embryos to be killed.
mis-applied support for a stance against BC:
The Lord slew Onan because he did not want to raise up children for his brother by impregnating his brother's wife, so he "spilled his seed on the ground." I believe it's fairly clear that Onan was slain for disobedience in general, not for what he specifically did.
What is the biblical support for the use of birth control?
Is it done via the principle of stewardship?
Or to avoid being "worse than an infidel?" (I Timothy 5:8) due to the perception that children cost so much money that more than two or three will induce deprivating financial hardship?
And yes, I'm well aware what curiosity did for the cat . . .
Steve Epley
06-06-2007, 09:28 AM
I for one do not believe Planned Parenthood should be setting the model for the Apostolic Church.
Timmy
06-06-2007, 10:07 AM
God's commandment to Noah to re-populate the earth was not rescinded.
Let old Noah keep at it, then! :lol
HeavenlyOne
06-06-2007, 11:30 AM
There have been a couple threads here lately that have highlighted the apparent inconsistency in Pentecost that we preach against many of the addictive and damaging influences of the world, but we seldom preach or teach on gluttony.
That got me to thinking . . . . Fundamentalist Eastern Orthodox Christians and Catholics believe that birth control is wrong. The bible support for this stance seems fairly plain to me.
Why don't Apostolics teach on this topic?
Support for a stance against BC:
God's commandment to Noah to re-populate the earth was not rescinded.
Children are to be considered blessings from God is a consistent thematic element in the bible.
Many popular forms of BC are chemical abortifacents, i.e. they cause zygotes and embryos to be killed.
mis-applied support for a stance against BC:
The Lord slew Onan because he did not want to raise up children for his brother by impregnating his brother's wife, so he "spilled his seed on the ground." I believe it's fairly clear that Onan was slain for disobedience in general, not for what he specifically did.
What is the biblical support for the use of birth control?
Is it done via the principle of stewardship?
Or to avoid being "worse than an infidel?" (I Timothy 5:8) due to the perception that children cost so much money that more than two or three will induce deprivating financial hardship?
And yes, I'm well aware what curiosity did for the cat . . .
Noah had three sons. There is no mention of him having other children or daughters.
The command to re-populate the earth wasn't a universal one that included us today.
I don't believe people should have children if they can't afford them. I have known people who think they should have as many children as they can but are on welfare. That's wrong.
There is no Biblical support nor opposition to birth control.
Sheltiedad
06-06-2007, 11:33 AM
I consider the population project a success already... all I have to do is go to the grocery store or anywhere else for that matter and I see the results. I do believe that this is one of the reasons why other ethnicities are slowly becoming the majority population though, because of their Catholic, etc. roots...
Adding... I believe that for someone on welfare to have even one child is irresponsible.
Carpenter
06-06-2007, 11:43 AM
Removed
Sheltiedad
06-06-2007, 12:03 PM
Was Carpenter's post a response to me? He's my friend and I don't want to offend him, so just want to make sure since it was removed.
tbpew
06-06-2007, 12:08 PM
OP_Carl,
would you mind sharing what you are doing in regard to invention or lack of intervention in the topical area of this thread?
Trouvere
06-06-2007, 12:17 PM
I have read numerous disclosures on the BC issue.Usually the ones writing it are men.I wonder if any of the women on this forum have studied it out.
I would be interested in their imput.:girlpopcorn
Scott Hutchinson
06-06-2007, 01:00 PM
So does this Brother think it's a sin for a woman to get her tubes tied ?
OP_Carl
06-06-2007, 02:22 PM
I don't believe people should have children if they can't afford them.And other, more intelligent cultures have determined this as well. The ability to afford children is/was considered by such to be the measure of readiness to MARRY. Or, more succinctly, if you aren't prepared to feed children, you aren't prepared to be married.
There is no Biblical support nor opposition to birth control.There is for abortifacent forms of birth control. A simple little line about thou shalt not murder, or something . . .
However, preventing conception does not kill.
would you mind sharing what you are doing I am hoping to learn the perspective of other Apostolic people, such as yourself, on the subject. I am hoping that collectively we Apostolics live up to our deep-digging bible study reputation, and can shed some more light from the word on the topic than what I presently know. I don't want to affect the flow of ideas in this thread with my present opinions.
Usually the ones writing it are men.Perhaps this is so on AFF, but I've only recently discovered AFF. My observations in literature, media, and other forums are the opposite of yours. I also know at least a dozen women who fiercely oppose abortion and anything that might even come close to abortion.
So does this Brother think it's a sin for a woman to get her tubes tied ?If you'll share your perspective and biblical knowledge on my questions, I'll answer this question a little later.
Trouvere
06-06-2007, 03:01 PM
So does this Brother think it's a sin for a woman to get her tubes tied ?
which tube left or right?
Sherri
06-06-2007, 03:13 PM
My tubes were tied after Zac was born. My doctor told me I couldn't have any more kids. I probably would have had them tied anyway. Providing for two has been a stretch at times in our lives. Financially, things are easier now, but I still feel fulfilled as a mom with two kids. If people want to have 12, I think that's fine, but I don't think it was for us.
Jack Shephard
06-06-2007, 03:15 PM
My tubes were tied after Zac was born. My doctor told me I couldn't have any more kids. I probably would have had them tied anyway. Providing for two has been a stretch at times in our lives. Financially, things are easier now, but I still feel fulfilled as a mom with two kids. If people want to have 12, I think that's fine, but I don't think it was for us.
Having that many kids can not be for anyone unless you are LDS, Latter Day Saints, Mormons.
Sherri
06-06-2007, 03:16 PM
Having that many kids can not be for anyone unless you are LDS, Latter Day Saints, Mormons.
Actually we have a black family in our church here that has 12 kids, most of whom are grown now. They are Pentecostal people to the core!
Trouvere
06-06-2007, 03:24 PM
Having that many kids can not be for anyone unless you are LDS, Latter Day Saints, Mormons.
or catholic or apostolic
Jack Shephard
06-06-2007, 03:39 PM
or catholic or apostolic
I have never known anyone in the Apostolic faith that way but there is always the exception.
OP_Carl
06-06-2007, 09:03 PM
I have never known anyone in the Apostolic faith that way but there is always the exception.
Our movement has them, but you are correct that they are rare.
Pastor Charles Benninghoff of Bloomington, Indiana, has six children
The Gordon sisters, a singing group of six sisters from Colorado, have two brothers. That means there must be a Brother & Sister Gordon somewhere who had at least eight.
I have met in passing two Apostolic families that had large families. I didn't get a count, but something in the order of seven for one of them, and perhaps eleven for the other. The family with eleven was a Foster home that had adopted some of their Foster kids.
Six families in my church have five children. One family has seven. Five more families have four.
Steve Epley
06-06-2007, 09:46 PM
Our movement has them, but you are correct that they are rare.
Pastor Charles Benninghoff of Bloomington, Indiana, has six children
The Gordon sisters, a singing group of six sisters from Colorado, have two brothers. That means there must be a Brother & Sister Gordon somewhere who had at least eight.
I have met in passing two Apostolic families that had large families. I didn't get a count, but something in the order of seven for one of them, and perhaps eleven for the other. The family with eleven was a Foster home that had adopted some of their Foster kids.
Six families in my church have five children. One family has seven. Five more families have four.
The church I was raised in the man who is the pastor now if I remember correctly was a sibling of 20 children. One family had 19 children. Two families had 8 children and one had seven children.
Sherri
06-06-2007, 09:47 PM
The church I was raised in the man who is the pastor now if I remember correctly was a sibling of 20 children. One family had 19 children. Two families had 8 children and one had seven children.Well, that's one way to grow a church!!:lol
Trouvere
06-06-2007, 09:59 PM
I have never known anyone in the Apostolic faith that way but there is always the exception.
I know lots of them.I have only heard one UPC preacher though preach
against birth control but not from the pulpit.He taught it in classes.
Most are other orgs or Independant.
Pragmatist
06-07-2007, 10:06 AM
I know a pastor that started teaching that natural family planning was the only form of birth control that should be used. Within the next year, numerous babies were born at that church, and the teaching fell by the wayside. :lol
CupCake
06-07-2007, 10:23 AM
My tubes were tied after Zac was born. My doctor told me I couldn't have any more kids. I probably would have had them tied anyway. Providing for two has been a stretch at times in our lives. Financially, things are easier now, but I still feel fulfilled as a mom with two kids. If people want to have 12, I think that's fine, but I don't think it was for us.
Took the man to the vet many, many moons ago...Alot cheaper by the way....;)
ForeverBlessed
06-07-2007, 10:29 AM
Our movement has them, but you are correct that they are rare.
Pastor Charles Benninghoff of Bloomington, Indiana, has six children
The Gordon sisters, a singing group of six sisters from Colorado, have two brothers. That means there must be a Brother & Sister Gordon somewhere who had at least eight.
I have met in passing two Apostolic families that had large families. I didn't get a count, but something in the order of seven for one of them, and perhaps eleven for the other. The family with eleven was a Foster home that had adopted some of their Foster kids.
Six families in my church have five children. One family has seven. Five more families have four.
I never really considered the Benninghoff's to have a lot of kids.. it wasn't unusual to have a lot of kids then.. Our family is good friends with their family.... there are 5 of us.
My husband was from a family of 7 kids with the youngest being 30 now.. and his aunt, a family in the church I grew up with had 7 kids... youngest is now 37. I guess some people just like big families.
I love kids and had three kids the first three years of my marriage.. would have continued having them and refused to have my tubes tied. However, I struggled through 3 C-sections and it probably wouldn't have been a good idea to have more. When my youngest was about 18 months old, I had an illness that caused me to be sterile. :) God's way of stopping the kids before I died I guess. lol Considering my past circumstances... it was God's blessing that came from that illness.
mfblume
06-07-2007, 11:36 AM
There is faith, foolishness and presumption. Some things are truly stood upon as a form of genuine faith in God's word. Other things are plain nutty, such as dying of cancer with no healing occurring and refusing to get medical help. But other things are presumption, such as birth control being wrong.
Scott Hutchinson
06-07-2007, 11:40 AM
The doctor told my wife physically it would be unhealthy for her have any more children ,she had probelms with the last one ,she is a Holy woman of God ,if she isn't saved I doubt anybody would make it.
She lives the life.
She has her tubes tied.
originalsecretplace
06-07-2007, 11:56 AM
I think it's a family decision. We decided to have 2 children and that was it.
As far as how to stop having more chilgren... my husband and I looked at the different methods and decided that he should get the big V. To my husband, it looked like a women bearing that burden of BC whether tubes tied or the pill was not as safe as he would like and was more invasive than the man's side. I had no medical reasons for having my tubes tied, etc.
He said he was responsible for the family and it was his burden to bear.
OP_Carl
06-07-2007, 03:21 PM
There is faith, foolishness and presumption. . . . But other things are presumption, such as birth control being wrong.
There is also naivete, in this case caused by conservative squeamishness and leftist cultural inundation and conditioning. "Everybody else is doing it, it's taught in school, and I've never heard my preacher say anything about it."
CupCake
06-07-2007, 03:50 PM
I think it's a family decision. We decided to have 2 children and that was it.
As far as how to stop having more chilgren... my husband and I looked at the different methods and decided that he should get the big V. To my husband, it looked like a women bearing that burden of BC whether tubes tied or the pill was not as safe as he would like and was more invasive than the man's side. I had no medical reasons for having my tubes tied, etc.
He said he was responsible for the family and it was his burden to bear.
It's a blessing to be married to a man who'll stand up and take responsibility and get a vasectomies ! After there babies and the lost of a fourth son (stillborn), my husband said I went through enough, it was the least he could do, nor did he want me in such physical pain .
Scott Hutchinson
06-07-2007, 05:06 PM
I guess we could pray that God would take our biological urges away.
berkeley
06-07-2007, 05:27 PM
I guess we could pray that God would take our biological urges away.
Never worked for me:::::::::::
CupCake
06-07-2007, 06:00 PM
Never worked for me:::::::::::
http://www.biggercheese.com/;_;/200.jpg
berkeley
06-07-2007, 06:01 PM
speaking of past experience... that pic is awful!!
CupCake
06-07-2007, 06:02 PM
speaking of past experience... that pic is awful!!
Yes it is.....:killinme
Trouvere
06-07-2007, 06:10 PM
I guess we could pray that God would take our biological urges away.
oh yeah a neuter
berkeley
06-07-2007, 06:11 PM
oh yeah a neuter
:blink
OP_Carl
06-08-2007, 08:08 AM
So much for a serious discussion. :rolleyes2
I for one do not believe Planned Parenthood should be setting the model for the Apostolic Church.
And that means??
I consider the population project a success already... all I have to do is go to the grocery store or anywhere else for that matter and I see the results. I do believe that this is one of the reasons why other ethnicities are slowly becoming the majority population though, because of their Catholic, etc. roots...
Adding... I believe that for someone on welfare to have even one child is irresponsible.
That's why they are supposed to get married first! (Most on welfare are single mothers!)
My view on this subject is that Christian families should, I think, have as many children as possible. By this, I don't mean that birth control is a sin. I don't mean this in a legalistic way. But, having children I think has many benefits. American society has taught too many people that children are a curse rather than a blessing, as the Bible teaches.
OP_Carl
06-08-2007, 09:39 AM
My view on this subject is that Christian families should, I think, have as many children as possible. By this, I don't mean that birth control is a sin. I don't mean this in a legalistic way. But, having children I think has many benefits. American society has taught too many people that children are a curse rather than a blessing, as the Bible teaches.
Nicely done.
I'll try to sum up my opinions on the topic now:
1) I believe all Christians should receive teaching that enables them to re-evaluate the societal norms they have accepted since childhood.
2) I believe that the advent of the birth control pill brought the dawn of a new era of human sexuality that has transformed society's views of sex, procreation, abortion, and children. Although perhaps intended to help families that struggled financially due to the size of their family, the pill has served much more as license for promiscuity and adultery, and to accelerate the spread of disease. (see #1)
3) I believe that the new prevailing attitude that children are a burden to be avoided in most circumstances is wrong. What's surprising is the strength of this attitude in today's young women. Christians should be taught that children are a blessing from God, and that they are part of God's plan for our training and perfecting as saints. (see #1)
4) I believe abortion is murder, and the use of abortifacent forms of birth control are tantamount to manslaughter. I believe Christians should be taught how the various forms of birth control actually work to prevent pregnancy.
5) I believe that the decision to employ preventative forms of birth control is ultimately one of faith. There are strong arguments for the invocation of the principle of stewardship here, but I will once again refer back to #1, above, and suggest that Christians should re-evaluate how their culture has influenced their pre-conceived notions about the costs of raising children, the priority they place upon their standard of living, and what things are worthy of sacrifice as the scales of life are balanced.
6) It is not a sin to plan the size of your family, or to choose sterilization for medical reasons.
7) In my opinion, people who limit the size of their family solely for financial or lifestyle reasons are depriving themselves of God's blessings. My father owns the cattle on 1000 hills. When Solomon was old, he taught that he had never seen the righteous forsaken, nor His seed begging bread.
I have five children. My wife and I have made our slow journey of incremental learning and faith together. We used the pill for the first three years we were married. Sometimes we have employed preventive measures between children, and sometimes we haven't. I first learned of the abortifacent nature of the pill, and of the quiver-full movement, at her urging. I almost got a vasectomey several years ago. I'm so glad I didn't!
We have put our trust in HIM, yet we understand that many are not ready to follow in our footsteps, as it took us a long time to arrive where we are.
Because of the long and arduous path we took to arrive at our place of faith, I can partly understand why this topic is avoided in Apostolic churches. But on the other hand . . . our movement has many, many fine people, more full of faith than I, and many, many brave preachers who confront other unpopular topics in the pulpit. I think people should be informed. I grieve for the tiny unborn ones that my wife and I unknowingly chemically aborted. I wonder what sort of children they might have been, what they would have looked like, how old they would be now.
I value how those early years without children allowed us to get to know each other more fully, and develop and strengthen our marriage and teamwork, but I regret the methods by which we acquired them.
God bless you all.
Chewy
06-08-2007, 09:57 AM
Well, one problem that might help you with your guilt. Unless you believe that a child is an actual child in the form of raw DNA in uncombined creative cells and materials, you cannot say that these would have combined on every occasion they came into contact to create a zygote.
You would then have to consider that every time your wife has her monthly deal, and every time you follow nature's call, you would have to consider this aborted life.
OP_Carl
06-08-2007, 10:10 AM
Recommend Chewy do some research on the term abortifacent. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortifacent)
originalsecretplace
06-08-2007, 10:12 AM
We have put our trust in HIM, yet we understand that many are not ready to follow in our footsteps, as it took us a long time to arrive where we are.
Because of the long and arduous path we took to arrive at our place of faith, I can partly understand why this topic is avoided in Apostolic churches. But on the other hand . . . our movement has many, many fine people, more full of faith than I, and many, many brave preachers who confront other unpopular topics in the pulpit. I think people should be informed. I grieve for the tiny unborn ones that my wife and I unknowingly chemically aborted. I wonder what sort of children they might have been, what they would have looked like, how old they would be now.
I value how those early years without children allowed us to get to know each other more fully, and develop and strengthen our marriage and teamwork, but I regret the methods by which we acquired them.
God bless you all.
Although you probably didn't mean it this way, it reads like you are saying that anyone who doesn't believe the same and practice the same regarding their family lacks your measure of faith or in other words doesn't have as much faith as you do.
COOPER
06-08-2007, 10:40 AM
So does this Brother think it's a sin for a woman to get her tubes tied ?
After Three kids I saw visited the Doc *snip*.....
Is that a sin?
OP_Carl
06-08-2007, 11:02 AM
Although you probably didn't mean it this way, it reads like you are saying that anyone who doesn't believe the same and practice the same regarding their family lacks your measure of faith or in other words doesn't have as much faith as you do.
Although you probably didn't mean to, your response reveals more about yourself than my writing.
I'm not impugning the faith of others. I'm asserting that there isn't enough questioning of our cultural paradigms. I've expressed my opinions and beliefs about the interaction between American Christianity and new cultural developments.
I see that it is an issue that Christianity is overlooking. We're letting the Catholics do the heavy lifting. We haven't thought about what the Christian position should be.
Different people exercise different amounts of faith in different areas of their lives. Do you carry a gun to protect yourself and your family from violent evildoers, or do you have faith that God will protect you?
I am well aware that what I have presented will be an affront to some. For many it is too late, and it is human nature to justify what's already been decided rather than to confront new ideas. And I am not saying that individuals have made wrong choices or committed sin.
I'm just saying, I did some questioning, did a little digging, and came away with a new perspective that appears to me to be a more accurate representation of a biblical worldview. I also feel that I am a much more blessed man for my journey. I'm not out of line for sharing it.
If you think that I have convinced myself that I have more faith than people who choose BC, you're wrong.
If you think I question the priorities of Christian couples who choose fancy cars and nice houses over children, you're right. I question their priorities, but not their motives, because - as I think I have gleaned from this thread - people have scarcely any exposure to critical thinking on the Christian perspective of birth control.
We as Apostolics merrily scoff at the concept of peer pressure in so many other areas of our lives. We're proud to be different. Is there the appearance of inconsistency on BC?
originalsecretplace
06-08-2007, 12:29 PM
Although you probably didn't mean to, your response reveals more about yourself than my writing.
Oops! Caught again... :haloplug
I'm not impugning the faith of others. I'm asserting that there isn't enough questioning of our cultural paradigms. I've expressed my opinions and beliefs about the interaction between American Christianity and new cultural developments.
I see that it is an issue that Christianity is overlooking. We're letting the Catholics do the heavy lifting. We haven't thought about what the Christian position should be.
Different people exercise different amounts of faith in different areas of their lives. Do you carry a gun to protect yourself and your family from violent evildoers, or do you have faith that God will protect you?
I don't carry a gun to protect myself and my family because it's illegal where I live to shoot people. :)
I don't think it's totally a matter of God's protection or my faith in God that I don't carry a gun to ward off evildoers but that I have some faith in humanity also. So it's not a black and white issue of faith or not but other factors enter into the equation. Same as BC.
Actually, I question things alot -- culturally both inside and outside the church. Too much for my own good sometimes. I take careful thought and study and prayer when I make decisions. Both my husband and I do. I don't rely on the status quo anwers.
As far as the Chrisitan position on BC, I think it's up to the individual family to decide. There's no Biblical Apostolic teaching on BC -- for or against. The methods of BC are up to the individuals and God to decide.
I don't believe everything I read on a topic from one source or other sources that may have a biased toward a certain paradigm. I read all sides, pray and make a decision. eg some argue that the pill is not abortifacent.
I am well aware that what I have presented will be an affront to some. For many it is too late, and it is human nature to justify what's already been decided rather than to confront new ideas. And I am not saying that individuals have made wrong choices or committed sin.
I'm just saying, I did some questioning, did a little digging, and came away with a new perspective that appears to me to be a more accurate representation of a biblical worldview. I also feel that I am a much more blessed man for my journey. I'm not out of line for sharing it.
If you think that I have convinced myself that I have more faith than people who choose BC, you're wrong.
What you presented isn't an affront to me. It was our family's choice and we made it. Others have and will make their own choice.
I don't think necessarily your perspective is any better a "biblical" view than another's veiw. Whether a couple has children and how many they have hasn't got anything to so with how much God blesses a person or a marriage. He blesses those with and without children. Children are a blessing. But it is a cultural belssing. It was also considered more blessed to have sons. Why? Because a woman needed a son to look after her if her husband died. In many cultures a woman without children is destitute when the spouse dies or becomes unable to work. She depends on her children.
We don't have the extended families today that were common even 100 years ago. The parents dont' have the support they used to have raising children.
Let's face it. Some people, even in the church, shouldn't have children or should limit the number severely. They can barely look after themselves let alone a child both emotionally and financially.
If you think I question the priorities of Christian couples who choose fancy cars and nice houses over children, you're right. I question their priorities, but not their motives, because - as I think I have gleaned from this thread - people have scarcely any exposure to critical thinking on the Christian perspective of birth control.
We as Apostolics merrily scoff at the concept of peer pressure in so many other areas of our lives. We're proud to be different. Is there the appearance of inconsistency on BC?
Could be, for some. Maybe some should be told to hold off having kids until they are mature enough to handle them. Start with not getting married until you are mature.
Come to think of it, many put the cart before the horse on this issue. Maybe if the churches didn't support couples marrying so young, the older women ones taught the younger how to be wives and mothers...
OP_Carl
06-08-2007, 01:12 PM
As far as the Chrisitan position on BC, I think it's up to the individual family to decide. There's no Biblical Apostolic teaching on BC -- for or against. The methods of BC are up to the individuals and God to decide.
What you presented isn't an affront to me. It was our family's choice and we made it. Others have and will make their own choice.
All this choice Think about it. For all of history, the human race has not had the ability to choose something other than the natural course of events for a husband and wife. And now in the last 60 years all of a sudden we can choose abortion, choose BC, choose to cut off life support, choose artificial insemination. We're allowing technological advances to drive moral and sociological thought. We scarcely even know how to theologically address genetic experimentation and human cloning.
I don't think necessarily your perspective is any better a "biblical" view than another's veiw. There isn't a "biblical" view on smoking, either.
Whether a couple has children and how many they have hasn't got anything to so with how much God blesses a person or a marriage. Absolutely.
He blesses those with and without children. Children are a blessing.
Yup.
But it is a cultural belssing. It was also considered more blessed to have sons. Why? Because a woman needed a son to look after her if her husband died. In many cultures a woman without children is destitute when the spouse dies or becomes unable to work. She depends on her children.
We don't have the extended families today that were common even 100 years ago. The parents dont' have the support they used to have raising children.
Note: This is exactly what I'm talking about. We are measuring this with our yardsticks, not God's. We apply cultural arguments to all aspects of our lives without even realizing it.
Let's face it. Some people, even in the church, shouldn't have children or should limit the number severely. They can barely look after themselves let alone a child both emotionally and financially.
Sister.
Hoo doggies!!!
I know what you're saying but this is a 4-mile freight train of cans of worms.
Could be, for some. Maybe some should be told to hold off having kids until they are mature enough to handle them. Start with not getting married until you are mature. Ding! Ding! Ding! Agreed this is the proper solution and Christians should train their children with an eye toward the prevention of this type of disaster.
Come to think of it, many put the cart before the horse on this issue. Maybe if the churches didn't support couples marrying so young, the older women ones taught the younger how to be wives and mothers...
Where EVER did you get such a marvelous idea?????? ;)
Thank you for taking the time to think and discuss with me.
HeavenlyOne
06-08-2007, 03:29 PM
So much for a serious discussion. :rolleyes2
It only get serious when insults are being thrown around. If you've been around any length of time, you'd know that.
I wish more serious conversations would happen.
HeavenlyOne
06-08-2007, 03:34 PM
I grieve for the tiny unborn ones that my wife and I unknowingly chemically aborted. I wonder what sort of children they might have been, what they would have looked like, how old they would be now.
Unless your wife had tests done to prove she was pregnant or fertilization took place, the above might not even be true. In most cases, the pill prevents fertilization from even occurring.
HeavenlyOne
06-08-2007, 03:40 PM
All this choice Think about it. For all of history, the human race has not had the ability to choose something other than the natural course of events for a husband and wife. And now in the last 60 years all of a sudden we can choose abortion, choose BC, choose to cut off life support, choose artificial insemination. We're allowing technological advances to drive moral and sociological thought. We scarcely even know how to theologically address genetic experimentation and human cloning.
Birth control has been around since the time of Moses. Or thereabouts. :D
I think choice is a great thing, especially in the medical community. In some countries, one doesn't have a choice. If the doctor declares the child can't live with quality of life, they are 'let go'.
Technological advances have always driven moral and sociological thoughts. That's not a new thing.
OP_Carl
06-14-2007, 08:32 AM
Preventative birth control has been around for a long time, but not widely available, practiced, promoted, or advertised.
The pill as a way of life, as a means to enter a brave new world, is new. The pill is instrumental in the present paradigm shift away from the traditional nuclear family.
I'm familiar with the odds, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_oral_contraceptive_pill#Postfertilization _effects) but I still feel that we were duped into consuming a product that is inconsistent with our beliefs about the sanctity of human life.
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