All things good?????

[ReformedDave]

Romans 8:26-30 - "26 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. 27 And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. 28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified."



Do we really believe all things work to the good for the believer????

[Felidae]

Romans 8:26-30 - "26 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. 27 And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. 28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified."



Do we really believe all things work to the good for the believer????
YES, I do believe that. More and more as time passes. Especially lately!

[ReformedDave]

YES, I do believe that. More and more as time passes. Especially lately!

What about death, financial ruin, etc????

[Ron]

All things "Work For Good" not "All Things Are Good!"

Big difference.

[Felidae]

What about death, financial ruin, etc????
That's a tough one; as I've never experienced those things... However, I have experienced some rough times in other areas of life - especially lately. And so far, I do believe that. I pray that I will always know & believe that.

Good question, though!

[ReformedDave]

All things "Work For Good" not "All Things Are Good!"

Big difference.

Agree! Explain the distinction.

[Blubayou]

What about death, financial ruin, etc????

I do believe this. I think that when bad things happen to us as Christians, that is the opportunity to build a relationship with God. Learn to depend on Him and see his hand in our lives work things out. Trials and struggles also, build a platform on which God can work and move in our lives. I do not mean that this happens only during struggles and trails, but sometimes in the good times, we do not give God credit, or do not slow down long enough to allow God to work in our lives. IMO

[HeavenlyOne]

What about death, financial ruin, etc????

Sometimes, in hindsight, we see the good that those things bring to us.

I used to wonder why God allowed me to suffer with my illness for so long, eventually making me have brain surgery.

Now I know.

[Felidae]

I do not mean that this happens only during struggles and trails, but sometimes in the good times, we do not give God credit, or do not slow down long enough to allow God to work in our lives. IMO
I agree with this. At least, this is true in my life. I need to be more careful to give GOD the glory in and for ALL things! Good AND [seemingly] "bad."

[ReformedDave]

O.K. Here's a twist. If 'good' happens to the believer does that mean no 'good' happens to the unbeliever???

We both can face the same thing and it result in the good for a christian and bad for a sinner.

Just a thought.......

[HeavenlyOne]

O.K. Here's a twist. If 'good' happens to the believer does that me no 'good' happens to the unbeliever???

We both can face the same thing and it result in the good for a christian and bad for a sinner.

Just a thought.......

Rain falls on the just and the unjust.

I remember that as a kid, I wished my mom was a sinner because on our way to church, we had to pass through a bad part of town and I remember seeing the Cadillacs and nice cars parked in front of the 'Go-Go-Girls' club and everyone on the streets laughing and having fun. Yet I lived a hard life where we struggled with money and having the basics, even heat for the house. In my child-like mind, I felt that if we quit church and lived that life instead, we would have the same things those people had.

Now that I'm grown, I can see things differently. The easy life really isn't that easy.

[ReformedDave]

Rain falls on the just and the unjust.

I remember that as a kid, I wished my mom was a sinner because on our way to church, we had to pass through a bad part of town and I remember seeing the Cadillacs and nice cars parked in front of the 'Go-Go-Girls' club and everyone on the streets laughing and having fun. Yet I lived a hard life where we struggled with money and having the basics, even heat for the house. In my child-like mind, I felt that if we quit church and lived that life instead, we would have the same things those people had.

Now that I'm grown, I can see things differently. The easy life really isn't that easy.

But even 'good' things can further ruin a sinner.......

[Ron]

Agree! Explain the distinction.

Yes it rains on the just as well as the unjust, but the just have a plan of God for their life and a God who is there in the midst of them making sure that everything works "for Good!"

[ReformedDave]

Yes it rains on the just as well as the unjust, but the just have a plan of God for their life and a God who is there in the midst of them making sure that everything works "for Good!"

Isn't God involved in the sinner's life?

[SDG]

Romans 8:26-30 - "26 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. 27 And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. 28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified."



Do we really believe all things work to the good for the believer????

All things work together for good ... for those who are called according to His purpose

Do all things work to the good for the believer????

Many times we only see God's goodness in the form of financial, physical and spiritual blessings in our lives.

But we need to understand that what we deem as good for ourselves is not always what He has orchestrated for His greater purposes - His Kingdom and His Church.

Even when it seems like things aren't good ... behind the scenes our God is working everything together for the greater good.

I am personally only beginning to see this greater good in my own life.

On May 4th, 2005, My Dad and I entered New York University hospital to be admitted for a live liver transplant. My Dad was suffering from chonic liver disease and was in the final stages. Only a transplant would prolong his life and had been waiting for a cadaver for 2 years.

For months I tried to convince him into a live donor procedure and in January of 2005 he reluctantly agreed.

You see ... God had promised Dad that all things would work together for the good, months prior to the transplant ... and so it only felt natural to think that God would answer our prayers through this procedure. Surely, He would answer the prayers of the saints.

After months of testing, the day had arrived, May 5th 2005 ... everything was a go.

I entered the OR at 7 am and Dad would come into the OR at eleven. The plan was he would receive my right lobe .... 60% of the liver and we all would live happily ever after.

After the surgeons made their large incision, and removed my gall bladder to get to my liver ... they then realized I would have 100% complication.

The doctors saw something that they could not see in the CAT scans.
I had a third set of bile ducts that did not fork out into both liver lobes but crossed over ... making an incision almost impossible.

You see .... the psalmist once said "You formed my inmost being; you knit me in my mother's womb. ... "

God took us to a place where we thought would be good for own lives .... and we forgot he had a greater purpose planned years before.

They sewed me back up and Dad died 6 months later.

Where is the good in all this ???? It was a question that tortured my mind in the ensuing months ....

What's worst were the post-op doctor visits ... Dad and I would sit with other successful transplant patients while we waited in the lobby. They would tell us their stories with so much joy and oh, how I hated it.

In one post-op visit in July, I remember weeping openly in front of one of the surgeons and Dad in the doctor's office. It was then ... that the surgeon, a believer, looked me in the eye and told me ....

"Dan, you are thread in a beautiful tapestry. You are sitting inside the tapestry and cant see the beautiful tapestry. But if you could step out of the tapestry and see what God has made, you would think differently.

In the last year in a half, we have dealt with grief .... but even in what appears to be tragic, God has begun to reveal His greater goodness for us.

My oldest brother who was backslidden for over 10 years returned to Christ and is living for Him till this day. In my own life, God has broken me in so many ways that I have had to come to a point where I entirely rely on Him .... and I know He's not done.

...and who knows how Dad's passing has impacted, and will impact,the hundreds he touched during his ministry for God's Kingdom.

God's goodness is not relegated to our lifespans, agenda or personal prosperity. We get to see glimpses of his goodness during our lives and for this we are to be thankful ... but as threads we have only a micro myopic view ....

His greater purpose is a beautiful tapestry ... if we could only see His goodness from His vantage point.

[Ron]

Isn't God involved in the sinner's life?

Not nearly like he is a Child of God. Most of us are trying to at least co operate.
That's why it says "We know" not "we like" or "we want" or "we desire."

[ReformedDave]

God's goodness is not relegated to our lifespans, agenda or personal prosperity. We get to see glimpses of his goodness during our lives and we are to be thankdul ... but as threads we have a micro myopic view ....

His greater purpose is a beautiful tapestry ... if we could only see His goodness from His vantage point.

Great testimony. The emphasized portion says it all.

[ReformedDave]

Not nearly like he is a Child of God. Most of us are trying to at least co operate.
That's why it says "We know" not "we like" or "we want" or "we desire."

Really? I thought God was omniscient and omnipotent.

[SDG]

Great testimony. The emphasized portion says it all.

Dave ... God is good ALL THE TIME.

[HeavenlyOne]

But even 'good' things can further ruin a sinner.......

I agree, and I've seen that happen.