More On Beards

[jediwill83]

Can anyone give me a single scripture where a godly man shaved?

[jediwill83]

Besides scriptures where they did it in mourning or where God commanded it as in Ezekiel.

[Amanah]

this is going to be a lonely thread:chirp

[jediwill83]

Lol it ok...I'm used to being lonely.

I posted it for this reason because the argument keeps being made to "show one scripture where a Godly woman wore pants."

The only times I can find where Godly men shaved was in extreme mourning and humbling themselves and when God commanded it as was in Ezekiel and it almost reads like what traditionally happened when a Nazarite vow ended.

With all the arguments of "gender separation" which I agree with and in a time where there is the belief of 90+ genders, and since shaving was preached as a reaction against ungodly culture such as the hippie movement, should not we react by being as gender distinct as possible by ceasing preaching against facial hair?

We harp on women who dress like men, but why aren't we harping on men who shave and look like women?

We jump on women for outward apparel but men who shave actually modify their natural form and in doing so become more like a woman.

[Esaias]

No movement is going to get started on AFF, brother.

Also, you would need "clout" to convince preachers, pastors, elders, etc to get on board. Otherwise, you have to look to the next generation of ministers. I doubt the no-beards position came in overnight from one person. I doubt it would change overnight from one person.

Also, a lot of people are starting to associate facial hair with being a "hipster" now, and that doesn't bode well for the beard.

:)

[Pliny]

Can anyone give me a single scripture where a godly man shaved?

Besides scriptures where they did it in mourning or where God commanded it as in Ezekiel.

Sounds like you answered your own question. LOL!

[LOVE JESUS]

this is going to be a lonely thread:chirp

I hope it is. Wow, I checked the thread of women's pants and it now has over 10,000 views and over 600 responses. I would like to see something new but not on the same bandwagon. So I hope you are right, Sister. God Bless.

[consapente89]

I thought God spoke to you and told you to shave? I thought God told you to shave and that if you didn't you were rebelling against him?? So why the change of position?

[n david]

No Biblical mandate against beards. Only personal conviction.

[Evang.Benincasa]

The Bible has no prohibition against facial hair and no prohibition against shaving off a facial hair. Not one verse telling men they are an abomination for not having a beard or having a beard. This and the Deuteronomy 22:5 thread are like comparing lemons and bowling balls.

Now that consapente89 mentioned some who God told them to call on Norelco. I have a few stories one has to do with a Cuban brother of mine who had the biggest moustache. We were in prayer meeting and he was hit hard with the Holy Ghost. Power of God was all over him (if you don't know what I'm talking about then go to an Apostolic church and find out) we had a great prayer meeting. The next time I saw him he was clean shaven. Personally I was shocked, I looked at my wife and her eyes were as big as Kennedy half a dollars. I asked him what happened? Where was the cookie duster? He told me without blinking an eye, and told me Jesus dealt with it in the prayer meeting. Now I was puzzled because there isn't a prohibition against facial hair nor is their an admonition to have facial hair. So, I mentioned this to my pastor, and some other elders.

The issue that this brother had, had little to do with the moustache. But with pride concerning the moustache. I remember we were in a Bible study years before this event. The Bible study was about forgiveness, and self sacrifice. Well, this brother leaped up and told everyone that he would NEVER shave off his lip cover. All 50 of us looked at him and shrugged our shoulders, with Mr Spock puzzled looks. He then proclaimed "my moustache is ME man!"


I remember a older sister replying to him "well that so sweet, why don't you sit down and join us"

So many things happen to us personally on so many levels when we allow the conviction of Jesus Christ to deal with us. Jesus is our pastor and He knows how to get the job done. I'm not called to go 500 pages with Aquila, to me it is like having a comic book collection, or Hot Wheels collection or even coins. It is somewhat relaxing to a point. But you always have to keep in mind that the person you are going round and round the mulberry bush with, is not going to change their position. They're convinced, signed, sealed, and delivered.

Only Jesus can change a heart, or close it shut. I just call'em like I see'em. Someone believes Deuteronomy 22:5 is about a pagan religious ceremony? Who am I to change their mind, they have far more bigger fish to fry in their skillet then if a woman can wear a pair of seal skin pants.

2017 we are heading towards 2018. This place is sinking like proverbial Atlantis. The amount of perversion is rolling its tentacles around the throat of Christendom of this country. I will never forget the time Pastor Keith McCann made a statement which went like this, "the Russian Orthodox clergy were arguing about the length of tassels on their robes. When the Communists took over the country" At that point I realized that the amount of Christians on these forums who really care are slim to none. Flamethrowing red hot Holy Ghost services are cooling down. Prayer rooms have more brooms, buckets, then weeping and snotting. Had an amazing service today, troubled teens getting blessed by the move of the Holy Ghost. Maybe one will catch a vision and go forward. My main scope of work is my city and county. If I can help my brothers around the country or around the world. But as far as forum crusading goes we just post what we believe and fly it up the flagpole. If it gets a thumbs up then hip hip hooray. If it gets attacked then on with the show. But when all is said and done we will all have to give an account for everything we have done. If we were a help or a hindrance.

Transgender United States of America and we go 600 posts on Deuteronomy 22:5. Good God from Zion.

We did more than blow the engine on this one.

[CC1]

Gabby Hayes had whiskers. Lenin had a beard!

[Evang.Benincasa]

Gabby Hayes had whiskers. Lenin had a beard!

And Choo Choo Charlie was an engineer.

[Esaias]

The Bible has no prohibition against facial hair and no prohibition against shaving off a facial hair. Not one verse telling men they are an abomination for not having a beard or having a beard. This and the Deuteronomy 22:5 thread are like comparing lemons and bowling balls.

Now that consapente89 mentioned some who God told them to call on Norelco. I have a few stories one has to do with a Cuban brother of mine who had the biggest moustache. We were in prayer meeting and he was hit hard with the Holy Ghost. Power of God was all over him (if you don't know what I'm talking about then go to an Apostolic church and find out) we had a great prayer meeting. The next time I saw him he was clean shaven. Personally I was shocked, I looked at my wife and her eyes were as big as Kennedy half a dollars. I asked him what happened? Where was the cookie duster? He told me without blinking an eye, and told me Jesus dealt with it in the prayer meeting. Now I was puzzled because there isn't a prohibition against facial hair nor is their an admonition to have facial hair. So, I mentioned this to my pastor, and some other elders.

The issue that this brother had, had little to do with the moustache. But with pride concerning the moustache. I remember we were in a Bible study years before this event. The Bible study was about forgiveness, and self sacrifice. Well, this brother leaped up and told everyone that he would NEVER shave off his lip cover. All 50 of us looked at him and shrugged our shoulders, with Mr Spock puzzled looks. He then proclaimed "my moustache is ME man!"


I remember a older sister replying to him "well that so sweet, why don't you sit down and join us"

So many things happen to us personally on so many levels when we allow the conviction of Jesus Christ to deal with us. Jesus is our pastor and He knows how to get the job done. I'm not called to go 500 pages with Aquila, to me it is like having a comic book collection, or Hot Wheels collection or even coins. It is somewhat relaxing to a point. But you always have to keep in mind that the person you are going round and round the mulberry bush with, is not going to change their position. They're convinced, signed, sealed, and delivered.

Only Jesus can change a heart, or close it shut. I just call'em like I see'em. Someone believes Deuteronomy 22:5 is about a pagan religious ceremony? Who am I to change their mind, they have far more bigger fish to fry in their skillet then if a woman can wear a pair of seal skin pants.

2017 we are heading towards 2018. This place is sinking like proverbial Atlantis. The amount of perversion is rolling its tentacles around the throat of Christendom of this country. I will never forget the time Pastor Keith McCann made a statement which went like this, "the Russian Orthodox clergy were arguing about the length of tassels on their robes. When the Communists took over the country" At that point I realized that the amount of Christians on these forums who really care are slim to none. Flamethrowing red hot Holy Ghost services are cooling down. Prayer rooms have more brooms, buckets, then weeping and snotting. Had an amazing service today, troubled teens getting blessed by the move of the Holy Ghost. Maybe one will catch a vision and go forward. My main scope of work is my city and county. If I can help my brothers around the country or around the world. But as far as forum crusading goes we just post what we believe and fly it up the flagpole. If it gets a thumbs up then hip hip hooray. If it gets attacked then on with the show. But when all is said and done we will all have to give an account for everything we have done. If we were a help or a hindrance.

Transgender United States of America and we go 600 posts on Deuteronomy 22:5. Good God from Zion.

We did more than blow the engine on this one.

Thank you for posting this. It helped me put things back in perspective.

:highfive

[Aquila]

The there is no law for or against beards for the NT Christian.

But I say unto you, there are two kinds of people in this world, those with beards...and women. Lol

[FlamingZword]

I shaved my beard but it was not out of religious conviction, my beard simply made me look like some wild eyed crazy guy. It simply did not fitted me, so no I am not against beards even though I shave every morning.

I am simply against men wearing beards that are unkempt or simply do not look good. :D

[jediwill83]

I thought God spoke to you and told you to shave? I thought God told you to shave and that if you didn't you were rebelling against him?? So why the change of position?

That's right. God told me to shave and that is a PERSONAL conviction and I do shave.

I'm NOT in rebellion or seeking excuses to step outside of what God has commanded me to do.

My issue is the reasoning and logic used to preach against facial hair.

@Benincasa love your comment bro and with I could have been at that prayer meeting.

Sorry my post is a bit disjointed...long night.

The reasons other than personal conviction that I've seen for facial hair=sin...many not all seem to have little or nothing to do with scripture*except for the example given about the brother in blatently pride*

No, I'm not on any kind of crusade. With all the wet blankets and weirdos on here anything attempted to be started on here would be extenguished, smothered, picked apart, murdered from the starting line.

I've seen some of the same hateful trolling argumentative attitudes amongst other groups out on the world and it kinda saddens me to see it on display here...yeah yeah I know...you have your "reasons" and you consider yourselves as though you're mocking the modern day prophets of Ba'al, but they are your brothers, they may have different views and they may be off on the other side of the spectrum from you, but they're still all our brothers...you're all my brothers and my sisters and while the bombs and insults continue to be thrown, and you bask in your superior skills of arguing, projection and gaslighting, while you may win your argument, you are losing your brother.

Proverbs says,"A brother who is offended is harder to win than a fortified city."

If your brother is indeed taken in a fall, restore him, minister in reconciliation because he has gifts, talents, annointing that the body needs.

The only reason I'm tempted to harp on beards is the cultural attack against masculinity and the ever increasingly popular view that there are over 67 genders and for all the silly things we have used to justify preaching against facial hair*Well Disney doesn't allow beards...The homosexual wears the beard"

We have a serious attack rising up against our people and culture that the church is about to have a rude awakening with and we are going to have to cling to an anchor of Truth... real Truth and not one crafted of personal preference.


Blame this on insomnia and a upset stomach.

Bless you and may your bacon forever increase. Amen

[Amanah]

That's right. God told me to shave and that is a PERSONAL conviction and I do shave.

. . .

Bless you and may your bacon forever increase. Amen

I'm not saying this is the case for you Brother, I think in might be true in some cases.

I think sometimes when we feel we are having a personal conviction about something, it is actually peer pressure and wanting to be in agreement with our brethren rather than an actual person conviction.

Therefore a tender sincere hearted person might feel they are having a personal conviction from God about shaving or something else because they want to be obedient to their elders, and then later, after study and scrutiny of the issue, they may find that is wasn't a personal conviction at all.

They may then still continue the practice to be in agreement with the brethren even though they might not personally agree.

[Aquila]

In the Evangelical Apex Network of Community churches (house churches) over the past six months God has spoken to a number of people. We saw that 2 were called by God to the mission field, 7 were called to commit to helping hands ministry in the local food bank and homeless shelters, 4 couples felt God call them to adopt.

Among Apostolics, I typically hear about God calling people to do things regarding beards, pants, makeup, jewelry, and stuff like that.

Am I missing something?

[n david]

Am I missing something?
Yes

[Evang.Benincasa]

The there is no law for or against beards for the NT Christian.

But I say unto you, there are two kinds of people in this world, those with beards...and women. Lol


http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02533/bearded-lady_2533542b.jpg

[Evang.Benincasa]

Yes

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Shocked-William-Shatner-Star-Trek.gif

[Aquila]

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02533/bearded-lady_2533542b.jpg

LOL!

[Aquila]

Yes

I figured. Thanks for squaring me away. lol :thumbsup

[n david]

In the Evangelical Apex Network of Community churches (house churches) over the past six months God has spoken to a number of people. We saw that 2 were called by God to the mission field, 7 were called to commit to helping hands ministry in the local food bank and homeless shelters, 4 couples felt God call them to adopt.
Congrats.

Among Apostolics, I typically hear about God calling people to do things regarding beards, pants, makeup, jewelry, and stuff like that.
:ohplease That's what you read on AFF, not what's actually happening among Apostolics.

Am I missing something?
Yes. Enlarge your network. Connect to people in other Apostolic organizations. Don't cherry pick what you hear and choose to report.

Most of my family is in the UPCI. I also have a lot of friends who are active in the UPCI as well. The North American Missions program had a seminar a month or two ago where they trained and equipped a couple dozen families to establish new churches in various cities around the US. They also have regular training seminar's like the annual Harvest conference in the northeast and northwest and Equip 240 which are district NAM training events.

The Global Missions department has AIMer's in which people go to the missions fields to assist missionaries for a period of time.

The Youth Department has partnered with NAM and GM to have young people visit a North American city or foreign country to work with the church or missionary in that city/country.

My niece has been on the YD North American missions and this year went to Spain for a couple months with the YD Global missions. I know a few other young people who have used their summer to assist the NAM or GM teams.

There are people answering the calling of God each and every day.

To belittle Apostolics and claim all you typically hear God calling them to is outward standards is petty and wrong.

[Aquila]

Congrats.


:ohplease That's what you read on AFF, not what's actually happening among Apostolics.


Yes. Enlarge your network. Connect to people in other Apostolic organizations. Don't cherry pick what you hear and choose to report.

Most of my family is in the UPCI. I also have a lot of friends who are active in the UPCI as well. The North American Missions program had a seminar a month or two ago where they trained and equipped a couple dozen families to establish new churches in various cities around the US. They also have regular training seminar's like the annual Harvest conference in the northeast and northwest and Equip 240 which are district NAM training events.

The Global Missions department has AIMer's in which people go to the missions fields to assist missionaries for a period of time.

The Youth Department has partnered with NAM and GM to have young people visit a North American city or foreign country to work with the church or missionary in that city/country.

My niece has been on the YD North American missions and this year went to Spain for a couple months with the YD Global missions. I know a few other young people who have used their summer to assist the NAM or GM teams.

There are people answering the calling of God each and every day.

To belittle Apostolics and claim all you typically hear God calling them to is outward standards is petty and wrong.

In the church I attended we gave financially to a lot of UPCI causes. But no one was ever released to work on the missions fields or to start new works. And when we asked if we could loosely organize a small group to volunteer in local missions, food pantries, or shelters, we were told that since those organizations weren't Apostolic we weren't to involve ourselves.

It was a bummer.

[Amanah]

FPC Palm bay:

Hands for Healing International is a non-profit organization focused on Humanitarian Assistance, Disaster Relief, and Medical Missions. Headquartered in Palm Bay, Florida, Hands for Healing is an international organization that works at home and abroad to help those in need. Our goal is to one day have offices not only across the United States, but across the world as well. Until then, we are working tirelessly to send help where needed across the United States and the world.

Currently, Hands for Healing acts as first responders in times of crisis and disaster bringing supplies and manpower to areas hit by a natural disaster.

http://hands4healing.org/what-we-do/

A seriously awesome Pastor, see link below:

http://hands4healing.org/board-of-directors/david-myers-biography/

http://hands4healing.org/board-of-directors/

[n david]

In the church I attended we gave financially to a lot of UPCI causes. But no one was ever released to work on the missions fields or to start new works. And when we asked if we could loosely organize a small group to volunteer in local missions, food pantries, or shelters, we were told that since those organizations weren't Apostolic we weren't to involve ourselves.

It was a bummer.
So based on your experience with one church, you belittle all Apostolics?

I attended a church briefly where the pastor tried keeping good people, instead of blessing and congratulating them on their new calling. A close friend got married and wanted to move to help the small church in his wife's city. They had prayed about it for months and he felt it was where God was calling them to go. The pastor told them that God told him they needed to stay there. He said if they left it would be rebellion. And then he told him he wanted him to sit on the platform and assist with the service.

My friend moved anyway, though a couple months later than planned. God blessed his ministry and he's done an incredible job there.

There are some Pastors who don't want to lose good people, but as a whole, people are responding to the call of God each and every day.

[Evang.Benincasa]

So based on your experience with one church, you belittle all Apostolics?

I attended a church briefly where the pastor tried keeping good people, instead of blessing and congratulating them on their new calling. A close friend got married and wanted to move to help the small church in his wife's city. They had prayed about it for months and he felt it was where God was calling them to go. The pastor told them that God told him they needed to stay there. He said if they left it would be rebellion. And then he told him he wanted him to sit on the platform and assist with the service.

My friend moved anyway, though a couple months later than planned. God blessed his ministry and he's done an incredible job there.

There are some Pastors who don't want to lose good people, but as a whole, people are responding to the call of God each and every day.

:thumbsup

[Evang.Benincasa]

LOL!

That is her real facial hair.

No joke.

[Aquila]

That is her real facial hair.

No joke.

No way. That's crazy. LOL

[Evang.Benincasa]

No way. That's crazy. LOL

http://maudmanyore.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/1-16.png

Yes way, everyone has facial hair, it is hormones and their balance which allow what happens with it.

Same reason why some men are as weak as a child. Can't retain body muscle, get tired easily.

[jediwill83]

http://maudmanyore.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/1-16.png

Yes way, everyone has facial hair, it is hormones and their balance which allow what happens with it.

Same reason why some men are as weak as a child. Can't retain body muscle, get tired easily.

All I know is that if she's looking our way, she better be investing in a razor!

[Evang.Benincasa]

All I know is that if she's looking our way, she better be investing in a razor!

How the story on all these women go, is that they feel comfortable with their beards. If you go through each story of these women they are all about how they felt rejected by society. But now they have been embraced by accepting new society. This is how we circle the drain. These women aren't the first to have more facial hair growth than their other female counterparts. They just choose not to pluck or wax it off. One woman's growth happened after she had her son. Nothing that can't be taken care of. Sad thing is we are just stuck in a world where the circus train has crashed and everyone is wandering around aimlessly.

[seguidordejesus]

In the Evangelical Apex Network of Community churches (house churches) over the past six months God has spoken to a number of people. We saw that 2 were called by God to the mission field, 7 were called to commit to helping hands ministry in the local food bank and homeless shelters, 4 couples felt God call them to adopt.

Among Apostolics, I typically hear about God calling people to do things regarding beards, pants, makeup, jewelry, and stuff like that.

Am I missing something?

:highfive:smack:happydance:thumbsup

[Aquila]

How the story on all these women go, is that they feel comfortable with their beards. If you go through each story of these women they are all about how they felt rejected by society. But now they have been embraced by accepting new society. This is how we circle the drain. These women aren't the first to have more facial hair growth than their other female counterparts. They just choose not to pluck or wax it off. One woman's growth happened after she had her son. Nothing that can't be taken care of. Sad thing is we are just stuck in a world where the circus train has crashed and everyone is wandering around aimlessly.

If that's how they are naturally, and they wish not to shave, what's the issue with just accepting them as they are? Are we saying that God makes mistakes?

[jediwill83]

If that's how they are naturally, and they wish not to shave, what's the issue with just accepting them as they are? Are we saying that God makes mistakes?


God didn't make them. God created Adam and Eve and gave them the ability to self replicate and said"Go make like bunnies...that's YOUR job now."

Then sin entered the picture and the previously perfect self replicating creation passed along it's flaws.

[Evang.Benincasa]

If that's how they are naturally, and they wish not to shave, what's the issue with just accepting them as they are? Are we saying that God makes mistakes?

Then you must also be in favor of allowing children to live with cleft lip, cleft palates.

[Evang.Benincasa]

When people become leftist does it cause severe brain damage?

[Aquila]

God didn't make them. God created Adam and Eve and gave them the ability to self replicate and said"Go make like bunnies...that's YOUR job now."

Then sin entered the picture and the previously perfect self replicating creation passed along it's flaws.

Are you saying that sin can effect our hormonal development??? But doesn't genetics play a part in that? :eek:

[Aquila]

Then you must also be in favor of allowing children to live with cleft lip, cleft palates.

Are you really comparing facial hair on an adult to cleft lip and cleft palates in children?

[Aquila]

When people become leftist does it cause severe brain damage?

Are you saying that if someone thinks we should accept others as they are, they must have brain damage?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Are you really comparing facial hair on an adult to cleft lip and cleft palates in children?


What's the issue with just accepting them as they are? Are we saying that God makes mistakes?

Your words were?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Are you saying that if someone thinks we should accept others as they are, they must have brain damage?

No, just when it comes from you it just sounds so fake.

[Aquila]

No, just when it comes from you it just sounds so fake.

I know. It must be hard to recognize the real deal when you're buried in so much human tradition.

[Aquila]

So, you'd make a straight and even married woman with this condition shave if they wished to attend your church?

[Evang.Benincasa]

I know. It must be hard to recognize the real deal when you're buried in so much human tradition.

Well, well, well, look what we have here? I just posted you as Mr Wonderful. Don't I win the cookie tonight. I do believe you use to send your wife marching back into the house not because of some religious mandate. Set by your religious captain. You sent her back in tears because your image. Amen, the real deal. Sweet. Ah, yes the liberal who believes with his whole tiny heart, that he escaped the tractor beams of the wicked Ultra Con Borge vessel. To only find out that he was assimilated long long ago. Real deal. Love it. :thumbsup

[Evang.Benincasa]

So, you'd make a straight and even married woman with this condition shave if they wished to attend your church?

You see, that's the BB that continues to roll round and round your within your head. Hey, Aquila we aren't like you. Read your words, MAKE. You'd MAKE. You'd force. That's YOU. You make.

[Aquila]

Well, well, well, look what we have here? I just posted you as Mr Wonderful. Don't I win the cookie tonight. I do believe you use to send your wife marching back into the house not because of some religious mandate. Set by your religious captain. You sent her back in tears because your image. Amen, the real deal. Sweet. Ah, yes the liberal who believes with his whole tiny heart, that he escaped the tractor beams of the wicked Ultra Con Borge vessel. To only find out that he was assimilated long long ago. Real deal. Love it. :thumbsup

Another personal attack. *yawn*

Strange...my position is liberal compared to yours. However, when I've talked to true religious liberals and most evangelicals, I'm told I'm too conservative. I have liberal Sadducees on the left cursing me, conservative Pharisees on the right cursing me. That leaves me standing in the middle with Jesus.

I can live with that.

[Aquila]

You see, that's the BB that continues to roll round and round your within your head. Hey, Aquila we aren't like you. Read your words, MAKE. You'd MAKE. You'd force. That's YOU. You make.

More insults, but generally a fair response in consideration of wording. I'll reword my question.

Would you "encourage" that she shave, or simply accept her as she is?

[Aquila]

So based on your experience with one church, you belittle all Apostolics?

I attended a church briefly where the pastor tried keeping good people, instead of blessing and congratulating them on their new calling. A close friend got married and wanted to move to help the small church in his wife's city. They had prayed about it for months and he felt it was where God was calling them to go. The pastor told them that God told him they needed to stay there. He said if they left it would be rebellion. And then he told him he wanted him to sit on the platform and assist with the service.

My friend moved anyway, though a couple months later than planned. God blessed his ministry and he's done an incredible job there.

There are some Pastors who don't want to lose good people, but as a whole, people are responding to the call of God each and every day.

Sounds kinda like the church I was talking about.

I had a pastor tell me point blank in Tim Horton's one day that he knows he has men with a pastoral calling and anointing on their lives, but he couldn't let them go. He explained that they were the most dedicated financial supporters of the church, and to let them go would bring financial hardship on the church. However, when a single mom voiced difficulty paying tithes, he told he that it was better to obey God, and to just have faith in God's provision.

She continued to tithe.
He has kept those families with a pastoral call on a pew for nearly 9 years now.


Perhaps that sister should give him a study on faith.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Another personal attack. *yawn*

Strange...my position is liberal compared to yours. However, when I've talked to true religious liberals and most evangelicals, I'm told I'm too conservative. I have liberal Sadducees on the left cursing me, conservative Pharisees on the right cursing me. That leaves me standing in the middle with Jesus.

I can live with that.

Aquila, why are you always the hero at the end of all your stories?
Please consider this.
Also you had no problem calling me an idiot. You then gave the excuse to another poster that we wet all men and it was cool. So, please take what you dish out. Don't act like a martyr.

[Evang.Benincasa]

More insults, but generally a fair response in consideration of wording. I'll reword my question.

Would you "encourage" that she shave, or simply accept her as she is?

I would encourage her to have a prayer life. To seek the Holy Ghost, to follow His leading. Then tell her to not listen to spiritual wet blankets like you who would tell her she never heard from God. You live and thrive in a world we're church is nothing more than a group session. You love to MAKE people?

Good grief

[Evang.Benincasa]

Sounds kinda like the church I was talking about.

I had a pastor tell me point blank in Tim Horton's one day that he knows he has men with a pastoral calling and anointing on their lives, but he couldn't let them go. He explained that they were the most dedicated financial supporters of the church, and to let them go would bring financial hardship on the church. However, when a single mom voiced difficulty paying tithes, he told he that it was better to obey God, and to just have faith in God's provision.

She continued to tithe.
He has kept those families with a pastoral call on a pew for nearly 9 years now.


Perhaps that sister should give him a study on faith.

Aquila you forgot the part where they had human sacrifices.

[Aquila]

I would encourage her to have a prayer life. To seek the Holy Ghost, to follow His leading. Then tell her to not listen to spiritual wet blankets like you who would tell her she never heard from God. You live and thrive in a world we're church is nothing more than a group session. You love to MAKE people?

Good grief

Have you ever noticed that legalists only believe that people "hear from God" when it agrees with their man made traditions?

What would you say if she claimed to have heard from God and felt that God was fine with her simply being as she is, beard and all. Would you welcome her among your congregation?

[Aquila]

Aquila, why are you always the hero at the end of all your stories?
Please consider this.
Also you had no problem calling me an idiot. You then gave the excuse to another poster that we wet all men and it was cool. So, please take what you dish out. Don't act like a martyr.

LOL

Yes, I called you an idiot. I apologized and decided to handle the issue as guys just joshing around. I figured you'd reciprocate and intelligent conversation could begin. However, you continue to write long and personally insulting posts over and over and over. I'm beginning to think it's a spirit.

You clearly believe I'm in error. Have you prayed for me?

P.S.
I'm not always the hero in my stories. I gave you a personal testimony in which we both agreed that I had been a real jerk to my ex-wife. You even used that information to attack me, deeply and personally. But, I'm still standing.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Have you ever noticed that legalists only believe that people "hear from God" when it agrees with their man made traditions?

What would you say if she claimed to have heard from God and felt that God was fine with her simply being as she is, beard and all. Would you welcome her among your congregation?

Bro, you are a child.

I had a "Brother" tell me that my new born would die because of what I believe concerning eschatology. I didn't flame out, I didn't cry, I most certainly didn't do what you would of done. My brother and I had a prayer meeting. The difference between you and I. Is that you actually believe you have control over others. Because you have learned that if you say something convincing enough they will do it. My world people need to hear from Jesus Christ, they need to be led by Him. Even if they come to the wrong conclusions, which if this forum is any indicator they most certainly do. Do I allow people to harm themselves and others, no. If you come to me and tell me that Russia is going to bomb the United States into oblivion and you need to take your young wife, and newborn to another country. Another country because God said so, we will have a discussion concerning the scriptures. Especially if your wife is shaking like a puppy passing peach pits.
I ask questions, I wait for Biblical answers, and most of all that everyone in your family is at peace. Wife stops shaking, husband still believes Jesus told him in a dream. My job is done. I now pray for the brother and his family.

No matter what I always have an open door, and if I did the Hulk Smash, then all contact is smoked.

I believe I already answered you concerning the woman with the whiskers. She would be doing a lot better with Jesus Christ as her pastor. You on the other hand when you first saw her, gave us YOUR reaction.

Aquila, i don't know what to say to you.

Have fun. :heeheehee

[Evang.Benincasa]

LOL

Yes, I called you an idiot. I apologized and decided to handle the issue as guys just joshing around. I figured you'd reciprocate and intelligent conversation could begin. However, you continue to write long and personally insulting posts over and over and over. I'm beginning to think it's a spirit.

You clearly believe I'm in error. Have you prayed for me?

P.S.
I'm not always the hero in my stories. I gave you a personal testimony in which we both agreed that I had been a real jerk to my ex-wife. You even used that information to attack me, deeply and personally. But, I'm still standing.

No, you are a hero in all your stories. Seriously.

Also calling me an idiot and then apologizing doesn't win favor in my eyes. Why? Because the apology is given just because someone said something. Also because you are a "Churchmen" therefore apologies flow like a bloody nose. All I ask is take what you give. You want to act like we are "joshing around" then do it and don't wince when the "josh" hits you. :heeheehee

[n david]

https://media.giphy.com/media/OxrsNMDjPKlPO/giphy.gif

:heeheehee

[Aquila]

Bro, you are a child.

I had a "Brother" tell me that my new born would die because of what I believe concerning eschatology. I didn't flame out, I didn't cry, I most certainly didn't do what you would of done.

I'm curious, what do you think I would have done? lol

I believe I already answered you concerning the woman with the whiskers. She would be doing a lot better with Jesus Christ as her pastor. You on the other hand when you first saw her, gave us YOUR reaction.

Aquila, i don't know what to say to you.

Have fun. :heeheehee

I'm pleasantly surprised. You'd allow this woman to attend your church if Jesus led her to do so, even if she also felt that He told her to keep her facial hair. I'm glad you'd take that approach.

[Aquila]

No, you are a hero in all your stories. Seriously.

I wasn't the hero in my story regarding how I spiritually abused my first wife.

Also calling me an idiot and then apologizing doesn't win favor in my eyes.

I didn't apologize for you. I apologized because it was the right thing to do. And, in all honesty, I'll probably call you an idiot again. And, I'll feel convicted that it wasn't right and apologize again.

Why? Because the apology is given just because someone said something. Also because you are a "Churchmen" therefore apologies flow like a bloody nose. All I ask is take what you give. You want to act like we are "joshing around" then do it and don't wince when the "josh" hits you. :heeheehee

Don't be an idiot. lol

[jediwill83]

Bro, you are a child.

I had a "Brother" tell me that my new born would die because of what I believe concerning eschatology. I didn't flame out, I didn't cry, I most certainly didn't do what you would of done. My brother and I had a prayer meeting. The difference between you and I. Is that you actually believe you have control over others. Because you have learned that if you say something convincing enough they will do it. My world people need to hear from Jesus Christ, they need to be led by Him. Even if they come to the wrong conclusions, which if this forum is any indicator they most certainly do. Do I allow people to harm themselves and others, no. If you come to me and tell me that Russia is going to bomb the United States into oblivion and you need to take your young wife, and newborn to another country. Another country because God said so, we will have a discussion concerning the scriptures. Especially if your wife is shaking like a puppy passing peach pits.
I ask questions, I wait for Biblical answers, and most of all that everyone in your family is at peace. Wife stops shaking, husband still believes Jesus told him in a dream. My job is done. I now pray for the brother and his family.

No matter what I always have an open door, and if I did the Hulk Smash, then all contact is smoked.

I believe I already answered you concerning the woman with the whiskers. She would be doing a lot better with Jesus Christ as her pastor. You on the other hand when you first saw her, gave us YOUR reaction.

Aquila, i don't know what to say to you.

Have fun. :heeheehee

Shaking like a puppy passin peach pits.....o...m....g I can't stop laughing...I'm laughing so hard I have the hiccups!

[Aquila]

Shaking like a puppy passin peach pits.....o...m....g I can't stop laughing...I'm laughing so hard I have the hiccups!

Yeah, I'm laughing too. That was a real class act. LOL

[Jason B]

The Bible has no prohibition against facial hair and no prohibition against shaving off a facial hair. Not one verse telling men they are an abomination for not having a beard or having a beard. This and the Deuteronomy 22:5 thread are like comparing lemons and bowling balls.
You shall not round off the side-growth of your heads nor harm the edges of your beard. Leviticus 19:27

The word abomination is missing, so I guess it's all good. :blah

[Jason B]

In the Evangelical Apex Network of Community churches (house churches) over the past six months God has spoken to a number of people. We saw that 2 were called by God to the mission field, 7 were called to commit to helping hands ministry in the local food bank and homeless shelters, 4 couples felt God call them to adopt.

Among Apostolics, I typically hear about God calling people to do things regarding beards, pants, makeup, jewelry, and stuff like that.

Am I missing something?
Exactly.

:thumbsup

[Evang.Benincasa]

You shall not round off the side-growth of your heads nor harm the edges of your beard. Leviticus 19:27

The word abomination is missing, so I guess it's all good. :blah

I told you, you are just a slow learner. :killinme

[Evang.Benincasa]

In the Evangelical Apex Network of Community churches (house churches) over the past six months God has spoken to a number of people. We saw that 2 were called by God to the mission field, 7 were called to commit to helping hands ministry in the local food bank and homeless shelters, 4 couples felt God call them to adopt.

Among Apostolics, I typically hear about God calling people to do things regarding beards, pants, makeup, jewelry, and stuff like that.

Am I missing something?

Evangelical Apex Network of Community churches are called to lead the blind into a ditch.

And stuff like that. :throwrock

[Jason B]

I told you, you are just a slow learner. :killinme

School me o wise one that teachest the law. Why does Deut 22:5 have authority over us today and Leviticus 19:27 not. Yet Lev 19:28 still applies, while Deut 22:8, 22:11 and Lev 11:7 do not. I'll admit I'm slow, and await the lesson.

[Evang.Benincasa]

School me o wise one that teachest the law. Why does Deut 22:5 have authority over us today and Leviticus 19:27 not. Yet Lev 19:28 still applies, while Deut 22:8, 22:11 and Lev 11:7 do not. I'll admit I'm slow, and await the lesson.

You don't read the threads you post in either. Go back over to the skirt thread, and read what I posted to Brother Pitta when he brought up the other portions of the law.

[Jason B]

You don't read the threads you post in either. Go back over to the skirt thread, and read what I posted to Brother Pitta when he brought up the other portions of the law.

That thread has like 10,000 posts, give me link

[Evang.Benincasa]

That thread has like 10,000 posts, give me link

Get to work, do some heavy lifting around here.

[mfblume]

Can anyone give me a single scripture where a godly man shaved?

Well, not shaved..... but close enough:

Prophecy of Jesus:

Isaiah 50:6 I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting.

[mfblume]

No Biblical mandate against beards. Only personal conviction.

The worst was crazy TRADITION derived from some alleged accusation that beards are hippy associated from 60 years ago!

:lol

[Aquila]

That thread has like 10,000 posts, give me link

EB draws distinction between those things that the LORD states is an abomination to Himself and those things that are said to be an abomination to the people. This makes some sins especially detestable to God, who never changes, and some sins only an abomination to the Old Covenant Israelites.

However, I've not put emphasis on the fact that all sin is an abomination to God. Shhhh. It makes EB more entertaining. ;)

[Evang.Benincasa]

EB draws distinction between those things that the LORD states is an abomination to Himself and those things that are said to be an abomination to the people. This makes some sins especially detestable to God, who never changes, and some sins only an abomination to the Old Covenant Israelites.

However, I've not put emphasis on the fact that all sin is an abomination to God. Shhhh. It makes EB more entertaining. ;)

Aquila the Killa

Boy, I checked out your Wu Tang style over in the political section.

You are finished, misrepresentation is your entire lifestyle. Now, I don't even believe that story. On how you were such a hard guy marching your wife back into the house to change her head covering. She probably marched you into the house to change your head covering.

[Aquila]

Aquila the Killa

Boy, I checked out your Wu Tang style over in the political section.

You are finished, misrepresentation is your entire lifestyle. Now, I don't even believe that story. On how you were such a hard guy marching your wife back into the house to change her head covering. She probably marched you into the house to change your head covering.

Yeah, political discussions can get nasty. However, you still have me beaten 10 to 1 when it comes to insults, jabs, insinuations, and general nastiness. I've received personal messages about you and how you are known to be. Your reputation proceeds you. Me, I have significant flare-ups from time to time, and I apologize and tone it down. You however, you make excuses as to why you don't have to apologize and you never wish to tone it down and be civil.

[Godsdrummer]

Well, not shaved..... but close enough:

Prophecy of Jesus:

Isaiah 50:6 I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting.

That is not close to Jesus shaving, he was plucked by others as a sign of shame.

[mfblume]

That is not close to Jesus shaving, he was plucked by others as a sign of shame.

You missed the point. It's the closest you can get. What's that tell you?

[Evang.Benincasa]

That is not close to Jesus shaving, he was plucked by others as a sign of shame.

Brother Blume was just saying it was the closet thing. He wasn't trying to prove shaving. Calm down everyone. I think there may be blood in the shark tank. Someone cut themselves shaving :lol

[mfblume]

Brother Blume was just saying it was the closet thing. He wasn't trying to prove shaving. Calm down everyone. I think there may be blood in the shark tank. Someone cut themselves shaving :lol

:spit

lol

[Sabby]

The non-beard culture goes back to the first world war. Prior to that facial hair was simply a fact of life. The conscripts for that war were de-loused and their heads shaved. This continued through our conflicts in WW2 and Korea. It became part of (primarily) white American culture. All one needs to recall is the 1950's stereotypical white male viewed in historical records (and television). There was always a counterculture (beatniks, etc.) that was outside the "church", but short hair was the culturally accepted hair style, and naturally, what was then generally accepted in the church was culturally wrapped in the American flag.
Then came the counterculture against our involvement in Viet Nam. It was a counterculture rebellion against everything traditional, with beards representing protest against the established culture and the American political system.
More later. gotta go.

[Aquila]

I agree with Charles Spurgeon... LOL

http://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.7GOAXt2RDiXzm0ufWypmMQEyDL&w=299&h=197&c=7&qlt=90&o=4&pid=1.7

[Aquila]

I thought this was funny. LOL

http://tse4.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.6QRmntCBcalU9o4-oSA-7wEsEC&w=240&h=197&c=7&qlt=90&o=4&pid=1.7

[Aquila]

Nice... lol

http://tse4.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.1_06PupWlxLD0qn77QKbfAEsDw&w=248&h=188&c=7&qlt=90&o=4&pid=1.7

[Amanah]

I agree with Charles Spurgeon... LOL

http://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.7GOAXt2RDiXzm0ufWypmMQEyDL&w=299&h=197&c=7&qlt=90&o=4&pid=1.7

and also a great way to trap bits of lunch and dinner for snacking on in the evening.

[Aquila]

and also a great way to trap bits of lunch and dinner for snacking on in the evening.

Ewww... any man professing Godliness will have a well kept and clean beard. LOL

[Esaias]

Ewww... any man professing Godliness will have a well kept and clean beard. LOL

Was John the Baptist's beard "well kept and clean" by your standards?

How would he have kept it "well kept and clean" while living in the wilderness eating wild bugs?

[Amanah]

Was John the Baptist's beard "well kept and clean" by your standards?

How would he have kept it "well kept and clean" while living in the wilderness eating wild bugs?

:heeheehee

[jediwill83]

:heeheehee

Bugs n sticky honey!!!!

[Evang.Benincasa]

I agree with Charles Spurgeon... LOL

http://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.7GOAXt2RDiXzm0ufWypmMQEyDL&w=299&h=197&c=7&qlt=90&o=4&pid=1.7

The guy couldn't read

[Evang.Benincasa]

Was John the Baptist's beard "well kept and clean" by your standards?

How would he have kept it "well kept and clean" while living in the wilderness eating wild bugs?

He used a comb.

[jediwill83]

His beard emitted a glory cloud that obscured his vision...your argument is invalid.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Ewww... any man professing Godliness will have a well kept and clean beard. LOL

You probably don't brush your teeth after you eat tuna fish.
You work to be as rupulsive as possible. No wonder you like Hillary Clinton she is another one who looks like she doesn't bathe. :lol

[Esaias]

He used a comb.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/7e/fd/4f/7efd4fa508a7e38e6afcf910353c639b.jpg

[Evang.Benincasa]

His beard emitted a glory cloud that obscured his vision...your argument is invalid.

No Bob Marley had a beard that emitted a glory cloud. It was ganja he got from Peter Tosh and Yellow Man.

[Evang.Benincasa]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/7e/fd/4f/7efd4fa508a7e38e6afcf910353c639b.jpg

Hey Brother Ronnie! His beard was way longer. His head way balder.

[Evang.Benincasa]

and also a great way to trap bits of lunch and dinner for snacking on in the evening.

I had a buddy named Slick. Back in my BC days. We rode together.
One day we stopped at a roadside burger stand. Now, his beard was to the top of his belt like mine "was." When he would eat he would get all his food and beer in his beard. Well, his girlfriend would pick and eat the food out of his beard.
It was pretty disgusting even back then. :lol

[n david]

I had a buddy named Slick. Back in my BC days. We rode together.
One day we stopped at a roadside burger stand. Now, his beard was to the top of his belt like mine "was." When he would eat he would get all his food and beer in his beard. Well, his girlfriend would pick and eat the food out of his beard.
It was pretty disgusting even back then. :lol

http://i.imgur.com/8dKWKwe.gif

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/25/1c/7a/251c7a4e6373e4765e95dd424cdc919a.jpg

[Evang.Benincasa]

http://i.imgur.com/8dKWKwe.gif

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/25/1c/7a/251c7a4e6373e4765e95dd424cdc919a.jpg

It was mostly like this, but with pieces of food stuck into a larger beard.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/76/a4/e7/76a4e78a7404497f348d35941d56a410.jpg

[Esaias]

Eww, that's pretty grodie.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Eww, that's pretty grodie.

I was riding from New York to Sturgis and passing through Wisconsin I hit a swarm of what the locals called corn borers. It was night, and I didn't know what it was. I knew it was insects but never hit a swarm that bad. When I reach the hotel later that evening, I walked up to the front desk. The guy behind the desk, drew back. He said man, you must of hit largest bunch of corn borers ever. I said, I know, I rode through some sort of flying insects, but I need a room, shower, and one of those unisex Hebrew garments you all call incorrectly "bathrobes" (I just added that now). The guy looked at me, and said sorry sir, no vacancy. I said can I use your bathroom? He said non guests can't use the restrooms. I had to get back on the bike and go further down the road wearing my bug filled beard, leather jacket, and my MAN bifurcated denim jeans.

[Michael The Disciple]

Its not as if this pathetic, hypocrite doctrine wont have consequences. Matter of fact it already has been reaping them for a long time. Tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of good Spirit filled believers loving Jesus who found Oneness truth and desired fellowship.

Instead they found scorn and rejection. They were told just shave and submit. So many of them seeing the total shallowness and hypocrisy decided to pass on "Apostolic" Churches.

So the BIG consequence will no doubt be when the "men of God" who chased off many good Children Of Light have to stand before the blazing anger of a righteous judge.

They may look upon Christ and tell him what gives YOU who are wearing a hippified beard the right to judge ME! Shave that thing off and THEN we can talk!

[Aquila]

No Bob Marley had a beard that emitted a glory cloud. It was ganja he got from Peter Tosh and Yellow Man.

:toofunny

[Aquila]

Its not as if this pathetic, hypocrite doctrine wont have consequences. Matter of fact it already has been reaping them for a long time. Tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of good Spirit filled believers loving Jesus who found Oneness truth and desired fellowship.

Instead they found scorn and rejection. They were told just shave and submit. So many of them seeing the total shallowness and hypocrisy decided to pass on "Apostolic" Churches.

So the BIG consequence will no doubt be when the "men of God" who chased off many good Children Of Light have to stand before the blazing anger of a righteous judge.

They may look upon Christ and tell him what gives YOU who are wearing a hippified beard the right to judge ME! Shave that thing off and THEN we can talk!

Ouch.

Doctrines and commandments of men are more worldly than Hollywood.

[jediwill83]

Its not as if this pathetic, hypocrite doctrine wont have consequences. Matter of fact it already has been reaping them for a long time. Tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of good Spirit filled believers loving Jesus who found Oneness truth and desired fellowship.

Instead they found scorn and rejection. They were told just shave and submit. So many of them seeing the total shallowness and hypocrisy decided to pass on "Apostolic" Churches.

So the BIG consequence will no doubt be when the "men of God" who chased off many good Children Of Light have to stand before the blazing anger of a righteous judge.

They may look upon Christ and tell him what gives YOU who are wearing a hippified beard the right to judge ME! Shave that thing off and THEN we can talk!

Christ said,"By your traditions, you have made the word of God of no effect."

[Evang.Benincasa]

Its not as if this pathetic, hypocrite doctrine wont have consequences. Matter of fact it already has been reaping them for a long time. Tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of good Spirit filled believers loving Jesus who found Oneness truth and desired fellowship.

Instead they found scorn and rejection. They were told just shave and submit. So many of them seeing the total shallowness and hypocrisy decided to pass on "Apostolic" Churches.

So the BIG consequence will no doubt be when the "men of God" who chased off many good Children Of Light have to stand before the blazing anger of a righteous judge.

They may look upon Christ and tell him what gives YOU who are wearing a hippified beard the right to judge ME! Shave that thing off and THEN we can talk!

You can't chase off a child of light.

[Michael The Disciple]

You can't chase off a child of light.

Oh really now? But I guess they dont want to think about the anger of a holy God.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Oh really now? But I guess they dont want to think about the anger of a holy God.

Child of light doesn't have to worry about an angry God. :)

[Michael The Disciple]

Child of light doesn't have to worry about an angry God. :)

If they do contrary to his will they need to fear. Hopefully many of them will repent of their false doctrines. If we judge ourselves we will not be judged.

[Evang.Benincasa]

If they do contrary to his will they need to fear. Hopefully many of them will repent of their false doctrines. If we judge ourselves we will not be judged.

You are doing a great job with Layman in the Godhead debate section. :thumbsup

[UnTraditional]

Sorry, but I cannot find the Shaved To Get And Stay Saved doctrine anywhere in Scripture... :D

Look, I know some churches have this belief that ministers ought to be "clean shaven". I am glad that I am not at any such church. Besides, I look good with facial hair, even if me and my mirror do say so ourselves! :D

[Evang.Benincasa]

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p306/jugglervain/jesuschristsmall.gif

[Esaias]

Is that Cesar Borgia?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Is that Cesar Borgia?

http://static.snopes.com/app/uploads/2017/01/cesare-borgia-jesus.jpg

[Evang.Benincasa]

Pictures of what was supposedly to be Jesus Christ were based on the shroud of turin. Prior to that Jesus was depicted without a beard and short hair.

https://openthewordblog.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/jesus-depicted-on-glass-plate-4th-century-spain-forvm-mmx.jpg?w=840

https://2guysreadinggibbon.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/early-christian-mosaic.jpg?w=500

http://pravoslavie.ru/sas/image/101096/109680.x.jpg

[Aquila]

The ancient depictions are Romanized. Remember the Romans were big on shaving. Jesus was a rabbi. I think Jesus probably looked more like this:

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2009/01/08/j460.jpg

[Aquila]

Pictures of what was supposedly to be Jesus Christ were based on the shroud of turin. Prior to that Jesus was depicted without a beard and short hair.

https://openthewordblog.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/jesus-depicted-on-glass-plate-4th-century-spain-forvm-mmx.jpg?w=840

https://2guysreadinggibbon.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/early-christian-mosaic.jpg?w=500

http://pravoslavie.ru/sas/image/101096/109680.x.jpg

He's wearing some very nice Roman garb.

[Evang.Benincasa]

He's wearing some very nice Roman garb.

Everyone looked like a medieval Rabbinical Jew?

How Churchian. :heeheehee

[Aquila]

Everyone looked like a medieval Rabbinical Jew?

How Churchian. :heeheehee

The Jews are a people slow to change. I didn't say that the depiction was exactly as I see Jesus. I said that it was most likely closer to how Jesus actually looked than the Roman depictions.

[n david]

And yet the Roman guards yanked out his beard. Oh, I know, Jesus had miraculous follicles which caused him to grow a full beard overnight. :lol

[Evang.Benincasa]

And yet the Roman guards yanked out his beard. Oh, I know, Jesus had miraculous follicles which caused him to grow a full beard overnight. :lol

http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/mp/6HRqMXURp4Yl.jpg

[Evang.Benincasa]

The Jews are a people slow to change. I didn't say that the depiction was exactly as I see Jesus. I said that it was most likely closer to how Jesus actually looked than the Roman depictions.

They were all Hellenized during the time of Jesus. So, much in fact that Paul didn't even recognize the High Priest Acts 23:5.

[jediwill83]

http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/mp/6HRqMXURp4Yl.jpg


Well one of the Messianic prophecies WAS that none of His bones would be broken....Jesus had a Adamantium skeleton you think?

[Aquila]

Well one of the Messianic prophecies WAS that none of His bones would be broken....Jesus had a Adamantium skeleton you think?

lol

[Evang.Benincasa]

Well one of the Messianic prophecies WAS that none of His bones would be broken....Jesus had a Adamantium skeleton you think?

Jesus is God.

Mickey Mouse has an Adamantium skeleton.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/63/55/c5/6355c559ae36a1059f66185c3b3c319f.jpg

So, Logan is really Mickey Mouse.

[jediwill83]

Jesus is God.

Mickey Mouse has an Adamantium skeleton.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/63/55/c5/6355c559ae36a1059f66185c3b3c319f.jpg

So, Logan is really Mickey Mouse.

Now THAT is Disney done right!

[Evang.Benincasa]

Now THAT is Disney done right!

https://media.giphy.com/media/kB32Woh7dNRiE/source.gif

[jediwill83]

https://media.giphy.com/media/kB32Woh7dNRiE/source.gif

If you think that's bad, check out how Hansen looks now.

[Evang.Benincasa]

If you think that's bad, check out how Hansen looks now.

Wow! MKUltra

[TK Burk]

https://media.giphy.com/media/kB32Woh7dNRiE/source.gif

That's bad enough that I'd leave him home alone. :nod

[jediwill83]

That's bad enough that I'd leave him home alone. :nod


Dude you know you'd come home to a empty house after he hocked all your stuff to buy blow.

[TK Burk]

Dude you know you'd come home to a empty house after he hocked all your stuff to buy blow.

Yep, he grew up to be like Harry and Marv....only he wasn't funny.

[jediwill83]

Yep, he grew up to be like Harry and Marv....only he wasn't funny.


Yeah...kid destroyed by fame.

[Esaias]

Yeah...kid destroyed by fame.

MKUltra Illuminati Monarch Hollywood programmed mind control slave.

[Evang.Benincasa]

MKUltra Illuminati Monarch Hollywood programmed mind control slave.

http://theconspiracyblog.com/images/article_images/entertainment_and_music/justin_bieber/justin-bieber-the-next-mk-ultra-mind-control-victim-06.jpg

[n david]

Back to the OP. My wife and I have been attending a UPC church again and yesterday the Pastor spoke with me for a few minutes before service. It was an introductory conversation. He mentioned that there were opportunities to be used in the ministry there, but there was one request. He started by saying, "There is no scripture against it, and I don't believe it will send anyone to hell."

I knew where he was going, kind of chuckled, rubbed my beard and said, "So you're asking me to shave?" He laughed and said, "Again, I haven't read any scriptures against it, I don't believe you're wrong for it, but if you want to be in leadership here, I would prefer you to be clean shaven."

I've had ministers go on about beards equaling rebellion or beards coming from the 60s hippie movement. I appreciated how up front and honest he was about it. No bible against it, not going to hell, just a preference for church leadership.

I worked with a large corporation who did not allow facial hair for men (not sure about a bearded lady...), and I followed their dress code without complaint. My current employer requires a certain dress code which I follow as well.

I have no problem shaving my beard. It's mostly laziness as to why I keep it. I just hate shaving all the time. Plus, and I understand this is vanity, but I have a bald head and the short beard was the only gray which showed aging. I already look young for my age, so the beard helped me look older, more distinguished. :lol

[Scott Pitta]

If we say the Bible is the sole rule of faith, we cannot preach against beards.

[Aquila]

Back to the OP. My wife and I have been attending a UPC church again and yesterday the Pastor spoke with me for a few minutes before service. It was an introductory conversation. He mentioned that there were opportunities to be used in the ministry there, but there was one request. He started by saying, "There is no scripture against it, and I don't believe it will send anyone to hell."

I knew where he was going, kind of chuckled, rubbed my beard and said, "So you're asking me to shave?" He laughed and said, "Again, I haven't read any scriptures against it, I don't believe you're wrong for it, but if you want to be in leadership here, I would prefer you to be clean shaven."

I've had ministers go on about beards equaling rebellion or beards coming from the 60s hippie movement. I appreciated how up front and honest he was about it. No bible against it, not going to hell, just a preference for church leadership.

I worked with a large corporation who did not allow facial hair for men (not sure about a bearded lady...), and I followed their dress code without complaint. My current employer requires a certain dress code which I follow as well.

I have no problem shaving my beard. It's mostly laziness as to why I keep it. I just hate shaving all the time. Plus, and I understand this is vanity, but I have a bald head and the short beard was the only gray which showed aging. I already look young for my age, so the beard helped me look older, more distinguished. :lol

So he admits he has an unbiblical requirement for ministry. :lol

[Aquila]

A man once told me that I should consider shaving my beard to be used in his church. I told him I'm a vet, and that I feel I earned the right to wear a beard. Besides, I told him, I think clean shaven men look gay. Lol. He just smiled and stared at me, with his clean shaven face. :lol

http://www.visualnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/2-bearded-gospel-men.jpg

[aegsm76]

If we say the Bible is the sole rule of faith, we cannot preach against beards.

For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.

And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;

To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

[n david]

If we say the Bible is the sole rule of faith, we cannot preach against beards.
He doesn't preach against beards. There are a few men there who have facial hair - goatee, beard. Again, not a heaven/hell issue, just a preference for leadership position.

So he admits he has an unbiblical requirement for ministry. :lol
You may view it this way, I do not. Most churches, even non-holiness churches, have requirements for ministry.

Again, I have no issue with his request. I have followed leadership requirements in the past, and have submitted to dress codes for employers all my working life. If I'm willing to do that for secular employers, I should be even more willing to do it in ministry.

[TakingDominion]

He doesn't preach against beards. There are a few men there who have facial hair - goatee, beard. Again, not a heaven/hell issue, just a preference for leadership position.


You may view it this way, I do not. Most churches, even non-holiness churches, have requirements for ministry.

Again, I have no issue with his request. I have followed leadership requirements in the past, and have submitted to dress codes for employers all my working life. If I'm willing to do that for secular employers, I should be even more willing to do it in ministry.

love this attitude! Obedience is better than sacrifice!:yourock

[n david]

A man once told me that I should consider shaving my beard to be used in his church. I told him I'm a vet, and that I feel I earned the right to wear a beard. Besides, I told him, I think clean shaven men look gay. Lol. He just smiled and stared at me, with his clean shaven face. :lol
You do know there are gay men with beards, right? In fact, studies have shown gay men love bearded partners. Are you a closeted bear?

[Barb]

So he admits he has an unbiblical requirement for ministry. :lol

Not a requirement...a preference.

[Barb]

He doesn't preach against beards. There are a few men there who have facial hair - goatee, beard. Again, not a heaven/hell issue, just a preference for leadership position.


You may view it this way, I do not. Most churches, even non-holiness churches, have requirements for ministry.

Again, I have no issue with his request. I have followed leadership requirements in the past, and have submitted to dress codes for employers all my working life. If I'm willing to do that for secular employers, I should be even more willing to do it in ministry.

:thumbsup

[Aquila]

He doesn't preach against beards. There are a few men there who have facial hair - goatee, beard. Again, not a heaven/hell issue, just a preference for leadership position.


You may view it this way, I do not. Most churches, even non-holiness churches, have requirements for ministry.

Again, I have no issue with his request. I have followed leadership requirements in the past, and have submitted to dress codes for employers all my working life. If I'm willing to do that for secular employers, I should be even more willing to do it in ministry.

Doesn't the Bible give us the requirements of ministry?

1 Timothy 3 English Standard Version (ESV)

Qualifications for Overseers
3 The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task. 2 Therefore an overseer[a] must be above reproach, the husband of one wife,[b] sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4 He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive, 5 for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church? 6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil. 7 Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil.

Qualifications for Deacons
8 Deacons likewise must be dignified, not double-tongued,[c] not addicted to much wine, not greedy for dishonest gain. 9 They must hold the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience. 10 And let them also be tested first; then let them serve as deacons if they prove themselves blameless. 11 Their wives likewise[d] must be dignified, not slanderers, but sober-minded, faithful in all things. 12 Let deacons each be the husband of one wife, managing their children and their own households well. 13 For those who serve well as deacons gain a good standing for themselves and also great confidence in the faith that is in Christ Jesus.

And....

Titus 1:5-9

Qualifications for Elders
5 This is why I left you in Crete, so that you might put what remained into order, and appoint elders in every town as I directed you— 6 if anyone is above reproach, the husband of one wife,[d] and his children are believers[e] and not open to the charge of debauchery or insubordination. 7 For an overseer,[f] as God's steward, must be above reproach. He must not be arrogant or quick-tempered or a drunkard or violent or greedy for gain, 8 but hospitable, a lover of good, self-controlled, upright, holy, and disciplined. 9 He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound[g] doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it.

Why add a facial hair requirement? Isn't that adding to the Word a tradition of man?

[Aquila]

You do know there are gay men with beards, right? In fact, studies have shown gay men love bearded partners. Are you a closeted bear?

I wasn't serious. :lol

I know good men without beards.

When Jesus comes back, He'll be wearing a beard. :laffatu

[Aquila]

Not a requirement...a preference.

I know men who might prefer a man be clean shaven, but they will still welcome a bearded man into leadership. If a pastor states a man must be shaved to be in leadership, is it not a requirement?

[TakingDominion]

I know men who might prefer a man be clean shaven, but they will still welcome a bearded man into leadership. If a pastor states a man must be shaved to be in leadership, is it not a requirement?

Doesn't the pastor have this authority, to request his leadership/platform be clean shaven? Are not some things left up to the local shepherd? Don't most people who want to argue about every little detail, really just have a problem with authority and submission?

just questions, only questions....

[Aquila]

Doesn't the pastor have this authority, to request his leadership/platform be clean shaven? Are not some things left up to the local shepherd? Don't most people who want to argue about every little detail, really just have a problem with authority and submission?

just questions, only questions....

Yes, a pastor has that authority. And yes, he will answer for how he uses it. With much power comes much responsibility. He can require tinfoil hats if he wishes. But how might Jesus feel about such unbiblical requirements, especially one that would disqualify the Lord Himself?

Is it his leadership/platform? Or is it the Lord's?

Ah, so glad we house church and were delivered from those kinds of problems. :happydance

The pic below is the church I attend. That's me in the stripes on the right. Lol

[Amanah]

The clean shaven thing reminds me of corporate America, clean shaven, suit and tie.
I'm sure all the prophets and apostles and Jesus himself had a beard. I think it's time for OPs to cut loose and have beards.

[Aquila]

The clean shaven thing reminds me of corporate America, clean shaven, suit and tie.
I'm sure all the prophets and apostles and Jesus himself had a beard. I think it's time for OPs to cut loose and have beards.

Could that be worldly corporate culture in the church? :heeheehee

Most modern churches are exactly that, incorporated bodies, corporations.

The real church isn't an incorporated organization. It's a living organism.

[Amanah]

Could that be worldly corporate culture in the church? :heeheehee

don't push it :throwrock

[TakingDominion]

Yes, a pastor has that authority. And yes, he will answer for how he uses it. With much power comes much responsibility. He can require tinfoil hats if he wishes. But how might Jesus feel about such unbiblical requirements, especially one that would disqualify the Lord Himself?

Is it his leadership/platform? Or is it the Lord's?

Ah, so glad we house church and were delivered from those kinds of problems. :happydance

The pic below is the church I attend. That's me in the stripes on the right. Lol

it's a beautiful thing to see God's people gathering together. You look pretty clean shaven in that pic #justsayin. I've never had the pleasure of being in a house church, although this past Sunday we were in a Holiday Inn Express conference room. I gotta tell yah though, it would be hard to run the aisles in that room :heeheehee

In all seriousness, I think there would be a few things that I would miss being part of a house church. I love worshiping together with God's people. I love when it gets hot in the middle of a Sunday night worship service, and I've gotta go back to turn the fans on. I love to hear God's word preached with passion and zeal. I love to see people in the altar repenting of their sins and starting a new life in Jesus Christ.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Clean shaven look was brought into Judea through the Greeks and the Romans.
Alexander had his army shave for the purpose of fighting. I've have never heard anyone make a comment that clean shaven look was homosexual. I've heard the opposite. Matter of fact their is something called Gay Bears. What ever you all do, don't by any means Google it. But just take my word for it. Down here in Fort Lauderdale and Miami the Gay Bear group all wear beards.

[FlamingZword]

Clean shaven look was brought into Judea through the Greeks and the Romans.
Alexander had his army shave for the purpose of fighting. I've have never heard anyone make a comment that clean shaven look was homosexual. I've heard the opposite. Matter of fact their is something called Gay Bears. What ever you all do, don't by any means Google it. But just take my word for it. Down here in Fort Lauderdale and Miami the Gay Bear group all wear beards.

The transvestites shave their beards so that they can pass for women. :D

[Aquila]

don't push it :throwrock

Okay. I'll stop there. Lol

[Aquila]

it's a beautiful thing to see God's people gathering together. You look pretty clean shaven in that pic #justsayin. I've never had the pleasure of being in a house church, although this past Sunday we were in a Holiday Inn Express conference room. I gotta tell yah though, it would be hard to run the aisles in that room :heeheehee

In all seriousness, I think there would be a few things that I would miss being part of a house church. I love worshiping together with God's people. I love when it gets hot in the middle of a Sunday night worship service, and I've gotta go back to turn the fans on. I love to hear God's word preached with passion and zeal. I love to see people in the altar repenting of their sins and starting a new life in Jesus Christ.

There's nothing wrong with any of that. House church sees more prostration, clapping, and weeping than running. But, I'd never judge one who chooses to take a lap, be it around the pews, or around a house. Lol

Yes I'm clean shaven in the pic. I raz some about the being clean shaven thing, but I'm not serious. Lol

[Aquila]

Clean shaven look was brought into Judea through the Greeks and the Romans.
Alexander had his army shave for the purpose of fighting. I've have never heard anyone make a comment that clean shaven look was homosexual. I've heard the opposite. Matter of fact their is something called Gay Bears. What ever you all do, don't by any means Google it. But just take my word for it. Down here in Fort Lauderdale and Miami the Gay Bear group all wear beards.

Thanks for the info. You brought this point before. I'll take your word for it. Lol

[Aquila]

The transvestites shave their beards so that they can pass for women. :D

Lol.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Thanks for the info. You brought this point before. I'll take your word for it. Lol

:thumbsup

[Evang.Benincasa]

The transvestites shave their beards so that they can pass for women. :D

They also wear make up, and a wig, so what's your point?

[houston]

Eww. Bears. I don't think they are a big sub type in most places. Florida is... something else.

[Esaias]

In all seriousness, I think there would be a few things that I would miss being part of a house church. I love worshiping together with God's people.

You don't think you'd be worshipping together with God's people if y'all met in a living room?

I love when it gets hot in the middle of a Sunday night worship service, and I've gotta go back to turn the fans on.

Most houses in the US have air conditioning nowadays. You could always bring a fan if it was comforting for you, though.

I love to hear God's word preached with passion and zeal.

Some of the most passionate and zealous preaching of the Word that I've ever heard has been in the living room of an elder's house down in Dickinson, Texas. No electric PA system with hidden reverb to "enhance"" the preaching and still more white hot apostolic anointing than I've seen in a lot of brick-and-mortar meeting houses. :heeheehee

I love to see people in the altar repenting of their sins and starting a new life in Jesus Christ.

You may not see em at an altar but you'd see em instead on their knees at their chair, couch, or just in the middle of the floor repenting just the same.

[houston]

Esaias,

Know of a house church in Houston?

[JoeBandy]

Clean shaven look was brought into Judea through the Greeks and the Romans.
Alexander had his army shave for the purpose of fighting. I've have never heard anyone make a comment that clean shaven look was homosexual. I've heard the opposite. Matter of fact their is something called Gay Bears. What ever you all do, don't by any means Google it. But just take my word for it. Down here in Fort Lauderdale and Miami the Gay Bear group all wear beards.

Prime example of Culturalism.

[Amanah]

Esaias,

Know of a house church in Houston?

relocate to where Bro Esaias or Bro Benincasa lives?

[houston]

relocate to where Bro Esaias or Bro Benincasa lives?

I'm not fit to attend with Benincasa. Esaias lives in the sticks. Relocating to attend a church is kinda... I don't know. Extreme.

Though, I almost did 5 years ago. But that was because I have a friend who had great plans for me. LOL. Anyway. That didn't work out.

[jediwill83]

I'm not fit to attend with Benincasa. Esaias lives in the sticks. Relocating to attend a church is kinda... I don't know. Extreme.

Though, I almost did 5 years ago. But that was because I have a friend who had great plans for me. LOL. Anyway. That didn't work out.

a church alive is worth the drive.

[Amanah]

If I was a single young man and didn't have a church near me, I'd relocate if at all possible.

[houston]

a church alive is worth the drive.
Or a flight? :foottap
Let me see if SouthWest is having any specials.

[houston]

If I was a single young man and didn't have a church near me, I'd relocate if at all possible.

There are churches all around me.

[jediwill83]

Or a flight? :foottap
Let me see if SouthWest is having any specials.

bro I know money is tight...I wasnt saying go states away or anything....

[houston]

And I have too much debt at the moment. :)

[houston]

bro I know money is tight...I wasnt saying go states away or anything....

Lol

[houston]

Back to beards... I keep it short.

[FlamingZword]

They also wear make up, and a wig, so what's your point?

That having a beard is a sure sign that a person is a male, yes I know the exception of the bearded lady, but she is that an exception.

the point is that it is easy for a shaven men to look like a woman, but not for a bearded man. :D

[Michael The Disciple]

So is there anyone left on the Forum who believes a beard is a sin? I might say how is it that the members of this Forum are more attuned to the Holy Spirit than the big Pastors and Evangelists still out there fighting beards?

Why cant THEY hear the truth? Are they content with preaching against beards even tho they have been proven wrong by ANYONE who would care to confront them?

[houston]

Now who said it was a Heaven and Hell issue? Not me. It is a pastoral issue in the church I am pastoring if they want to have facial hair they are at liberty to have it and go to Heaven but they just ain'y going to Heaven from here with facial hair. That is the bottom line.


So is there anyone left on the Forum who believes a beard is a sin? I might say how is it that the members of this Forum are more attuned to the Holy Spirit than the big Pastors and Evangelists still out there fighting beards?

Why cant THEY hear the truth? Are they content with preaching against beards even tho they have been proven wrong by ANYONE who would care to confront them?
I'm sorry, but SE's response still makes me :spit

[Captain]

It’s been my experience that those who disagree with beards always give some example like hippies wore beards, or some gay guys wear beards or they’ll point out some weirdo at the workplace that happens to have a beard. This misses the point however, and misses it badly.

Every author of the Bible plus Jesus himself had a beard. Leviticus prescribed that men wear beards. When David’s diplomats had their beards shorn by the Ammonites they were humiliated to the point that David told them to remain in Jericho until their beards were grown back. The apostles did not shave their beards in their conversion from Judaism to the Christianity. And so on.

So there’s Bible for beards, but nothing against beards. The argument then against beards always relies on very narrow, anecdotal and usually outdated examples while completely ignoring actual scripture. But why this is important goes beyond some meaningless argument on the internet – it goes to how we are – or how we are not – reaching people in the world.

I hate long forum posts so I’ll keep this as short as possible, but straining at gnats while swallowing camels makes for a weak spiritual environment.

[FlamingZword]

It’s been my experience that those who disagree with beards always give some example like hippies wore beards, or some gay guys wear beards or they’ll point out some weirdo at the workplace that happens to have a beard. This misses the point however, and misses it badly.

Every author of the Bible plus Jesus himself had a beard. Leviticus prescribed that men wear beards. When David’s diplomats had their beards shorn by the Ammonites they were humiliated to the point that David told them to remain in Jericho until their beards were grown back. The apostles did not shave their beards in their conversion from Judaism to the Christianity. And so on.

So there’s Bible for beards, but nothing against beards. The argument then against beards always relies on very narrow, anecdotal and usually outdated examples while completely ignoring actual scripture. But why this is important goes beyond some meaningless argument on the internet – it goes to how we are – or how we are not – reaching people in the world.

I hate long forum posts so I’ll keep this as short as possible, but straining at gnats while swallowing camels makes for a weak spiritual environment.

You are absolutely right, Jesus had a beard, was he a homosexual "bear"?

[Amanah]

It’s been my experience that those who disagree with beards always give some example like hippies wore beards, or some gay guys wear beards or they’ll point out some weirdo at the workplace that happens to have a beard. This misses the point however, and misses it badly.

Every author of the Bible plus Jesus himself had a beard. Leviticus prescribed that men wear beards. When David’s diplomats had their beards shorn by the Ammonites they were humiliated to the point that David told them to remain in Jericho until their beards were grown back. The apostles did not shave their beards in their conversion from Judaism to the Christianity. And so on.

So there’s Bible for beards, but nothing against beards. The argument then against beards always relies on very narrow, anecdotal and usually outdated examples while completely ignoring actual scripture. But why this is important goes beyond some meaningless argument on the internet – it goes to how we are – or how we are not – reaching people in the world.

I hate long forum posts so I’ll keep this as short as possible, but straining at gnats while swallowing camels makes for a weak spiritual environment.

are you saying we can reach people more effectively when men don't wear beards?

[houston]

are you saying we can reach people more effectively when men don't wear beards?

No. It means that we waste time on things that don't matter.

[jfrog]

You are absolutely right, Jesus had a beard, was he a homosexual "bear"?

I'm sure someone somewhere thinks he was :(

[Aquila]

I've always liked this Charles Spurgeon quote:

http://gospelgeeks.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/spurgeon-beard-quote-i0.jpg

[n david]

It’s been my experience that those who disagree with beards always give some example like hippies wore beards, or some gay guys wear beards or they’ll point out some weirdo at the workplace that happens to have a beard. This misses the point however, and misses it badly.
The only reason I mentioned bears and gays liking beards is because the statement was made that a man who shaves looks "gay." Stupid.

[n david]

I've always liked this Charles Spurgeon quote:
Do you know the context of that quote?

[Aquila]

Do you know the context of that quote?

This was what I could find:

When you have done preaching take care of your throat by never wrapping it up tightly. From personal experience I venture with some diffidence to give this piece of advice. If any of you possess delightfully warm woollen comforters, with which there may be associated the most tender remembrances of mother or sister, treasure them — treasure them in the bottom of your trunk, but do not expose them to any vulgar use by wrapping them round your necks. If any brother wants to die of influenza let him wear a warm scarf round his neck, and then one of these nights he will forget it, and catch such a cold as will last him the rest of his natural life.

You seldom see a sailor wrap his neck up. No, he always keeps it bare and exposed, and has a turn-down collar, and if he has a tie at all, it is but a small one loosely tied, so that the wind can blow all round his neck. In this philosophy I am a firm believer, having never deviated from it for these fourteen years, and having before that time been frequently troubled with colds, but very seldom since.

If you feel that you want something else, why, then grow your beards! A habit most natural, scriptural, manly, and beneficial. One of our brethren, now present, has for years found this of great service. He was compelled to leave England on account of the loss of his voice, but he has become as strong as Samson now that his locks are unshorn.

If your throats become affected consult a good physician, or if you cannot do this, give what attention you please to the following hint. Never purchase “Marsh-mallow Rock,” “Cough-no-more Lozenges,” “Pulmonic Wafers,” Horehound, Ipecacuanha, or any of the ten thousand emollient compounds. They may serve your turn for a time by removing present uneasiness, but they ruin the throat by their laxative qualities. If you wish to improve your throat take a good share of pepper — good Cayenne pepper, and other astringent substances, as much as your stomach can bear. (Lecture to My Students, lecture 8 "On the Voice")

[n david]

This was what I could find:

When you have done preaching take care of your throat by never wrapping it up tightly. From personal experience I venture with some diffidence to give this piece of advice. If any of you possess delightfully warm woollen comforters, with which there may be associated the most tender remembrances of mother or sister, treasure them — treasure them in the bottom of your trunk, but do not expose them to any vulgar use by wrapping them round your necks. If any brother wants to die of influenza let him wear a warm scarf round his neck, and then one of these nights he will forget it, and catch such a cold as will last him the rest of his natural life.

You seldom see a sailor wrap his neck up. No, he always keeps it bare and exposed, and has a turn-down collar, and if he has a tie at all, it is but a small one loosely tied, so that the wind can blow all round his neck. In this philosophy I am a firm believer, having never deviated from it for these fourteen years, and having before that time been frequently troubled with colds, but very seldom since.

If you feel that you want something else, why, then grow your beards! A habit most natural, scriptural, manly, and beneficial. One of our brethren, now present, has for years found this of great service. He was compelled to leave England on account of the loss of his voice, but he has become as strong as Samson now that his locks are unshorn.

If your throats become affected consult a good physician, or if you cannot do this, give what attention you please to the following hint. Never purchase “Marsh-mallow Rock,” “Cough-no-more Lozenges,” “Pulmonic Wafers,” Horehound, Ipecacuanha, or any of the ten thousand emollient compounds. They may serve your turn for a time by removing present uneasiness, but they ruin the throat by their laxative qualities. If you wish to improve your throat take a good share of pepper — good Cayenne pepper, and other astringent substances, as much as your stomach can bear. (Lecture to My Students, lecture 8 "On the Voice")

Yes, it was instruction on how to care for your throat and voice, not an exegesis on scriptural authority for beards.

[Aquila]

Yes, it was instruction on how to care for your throat and voice, not an exegesis on scriptural authority for beards.

Nevertheless, in the midst of this instruction, Spurgeon said that growing a beard was indeed, "A habit most natural, scriptural, manly, and beneficial." :thumbsup

[n david]

Nevertheless, in the midst of this instruction, Spurgeon said that growing a beard was indeed, "A habit most natural, scriptural, manly, and beneficial." :thumbsup

He also smoked cigars "to the glory of God," and drank alcohol.

[Aquila]

He also smoked cigars "to the glory of God," and drank alcohol.

No way! LOL

http://likegif.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/friendsjoey-tribbianimatt-leblancshock.gif

[Captain]

The only reason I mentioned bears and gays liking beards is because the statement was made that a man who shaves looks "gay." Stupid.

I wasn't specifically referring to your post. Some gay men are known for doing certain overtly masculine things as a way of compensating. Gay rodeo is a thing, amazingly enough.

And I don't think a shaven face looks gay or effeminate. There's some decent research on facial hair through the centuries and while there's no single pattern, shaving tends to become popular when a society has reached a point of relative advancement. The men are seeking to be more civilized and refined and a clean shaven face tends to follow. When society is in a growth mode - think America from 1840s to 1900 - beards tend to follow. It's a more independent attitude. The same kind of men that were eager to explore the frontier were also more apt to sport some whiskers. As the 20the century rolled in, the frontier was closing up, the industrial revolution was reaching an advanced stage, more men worked in factories and offices and in large corporations in general and we started shaving again to go along with a conformist, more domesticated zeitgeist.

Read some of the literature in the late 19th century. There was a wide spread concern about men being made soft by the fast pace of technological progress at the time. Everything from the NRA to the Boy Scouts to the "muscular Christianity" movement were all in that period and resulted from the effort to resist what they saw as the effeminate effects of modern society. Growing their beards was seen as a way to promote natural manliness.

Whether or not a beard is "wrong" for a Christian of course is the height of legalism. Not trying to throw stones but it's just such a subjective stance to take, especially considering the ubiquitous presence of beards in the Bible. My pastor does not teach against beards or facial hair but if a man is going to be on the platform he will be clean shaven and I'm ok with that.

[n david]

My pastor does not teach against beards or facial hair but if a man is going to be on the platform he will be clean shaven and I'm ok with that.
Same where we attend.

[Scott Pitta]

Jesus died for our sins and probably sported a beard while doing so. But the rest of those in ministry need to be clean shaven ?

There is something to be said for having a Bible based theology.

Cultural rules are fine. But they are not Bible.

[aegsm76]

20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;

21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

[Amanah]

20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;

21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

I'm not understanding how this relates to not wearing a beard.

[Scott Pitta]

No one in the Bible condemned or bothered to spill ink about the evils of facial hair.

[Carl]

My pastor was okay with beards, he just said keep it trimmed. You don't have to look like a mountain man.

[n david]

No one in the Bible condemned or bothered to spill ink about the evils of facial hair.
Because it was part of the culture. Men wore robes back then as well.

[jediwill83]

My pastor was okay with beards, he just said keep it trimmed. You don't have to look like a mountain man.

But grizzly Adams is my spirit animal!

[Scott Pitta]

Our culture allows it now. If it was culturally acceptable then it still is now.

[Esaias]

The Bible is the revelation from God to man. If we survey the Bible on any topic, we discover God's opinion of that topic.

So, what does the Bible say about beards? Learn that, and you will learn God's opinion about beards. And that's the only opinion that matters.

[jediwill83]

The Bible is the revelation from God to man. If we survey the Bible on any topic, we discover God's opinion of that topic.

So, what does the Bible say about beards? Learn that, and you will learn God's opinion about beards. And that's the only opinion that matters.

Abel offered from his flocks and Cain offered what he had grown therefore by the principle of God wanting meat I declare that I will never again eat vegatables....I got scripture durn it.lol

[Evang.Benincasa]

He also smoked cigars "to the glory of God," and drank alcohol.

He was also obese.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Abel offered from his flocks and Cain offered what he had grown therefore by the principle of God wanting meat I declare that I will never again eat vegatables....I got scripture durn it.lol

STOP STOP STOP STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Between you and Esaias!!!

Again! :foottap

I'm going to use this Sunday, and you will be quoted.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Never laugh while you are eating habanero and ghost pepper, green tamato salsa.

:foottap

[n david]

He was also obese.

The fat is the Lord's.

https://i.imgur.com/TUPDUkA.gif

[aegsm76]

Our culture allows it now. If it was culturally acceptable then it still is now.

Unless I have missed something, the only beards that are approved in the Bible would be uncut ones.
As in do not mar the corners of your beard.
So, looks like the duck dynasty look is the way to go.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Unless I have missed something, the only beards that are approved in the Bible would be uncut ones.
As in do not mar the corners of your beard.
So, looks like the duck dynasty look is the way to go.

Amen, the oil ran down Aaron's beard Psalm 133:2.

Not dripped off his chin.

[Evang.Benincasa]

The fat is the Lord's.

https://i.imgur.com/TUPDUkA.gif

I just hope he made it to the bathroom.

[Esaias]

Unless I have missed something, the only beards that are approved in the Bible would be uncut ones.
As in do not mar the corners of your beard.
So, looks like the duck dynasty look is the way to go.

Leviticus 19:27
You shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shall you mar the corners of your beard.




Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(27) Round the corners of your heads.—That is, they are not to shave off the hair around the temples and behind the ears, so as to leave the head bald except a dish-like tuft upon the crown, thus imparting to their heads the form of a hemisphere. This was done by the Arabs, and other worshippers of the god Orotal. Hence the Arabs are ironically called “those with the corner of their hair polled,” as it is rightly rendered in the Margin (Jeremiah 9:26; Jeremiah 25:23; Jeremiah 49:32).
Mar the corners of thy beard.—The beard was regarded by the Hebrews and other eastern nations as the greatest ornament of a man, and was as dear to them as life itself. It was the object of salutation (2Samuel 20:9), and the mutilation of it was looked upon as the greatest disgrace and most degrading punishment (2Samuel 10:4; Isaiah 7:20; Ezra 5:1-5, &c.). It was only in seasons of sorrow that the Hebrews neglected their beards; and sometimes, to show how deeply they were afflicted, they covered them up, or even cut them off, or tore them out (2Samuel 19:24; Isaiah 15:2; Jeremiah 41:5, &c.). Because it was so precious a treasure, it was customary among some of the ancients to present to their gods the firstlings of their beards. The prohibition before us alludes to this practice.

Benson Commentary
Leviticus 19:27. The corners of your heads — That is, your temples; ye shall not cut off the hair of your heads round about your temples. This the Gentiles did, either for the worship of their idols, to whom young men used to consecrate their hair, being cut off from their heads, as Homer, Plutarch, and many others write; or in funerals or immoderate mournings, as appears from Isaiah 15:2; Jeremiah 48:37. And the like is to be thought concerning the beard, or the hair in the corner, that is, corners of the beard. The reason then of this prohibition is, because God would not have his people agree with idolaters, neither in their idolatries, nor in their excessive sorrowing, nor so much as in the appearances of it.

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
Ye shall not round the corners of your heads,.... The extremities of the hairs of the head, round about, on the forehead, temples, and behind the ears; this is done, as Jarchi says, when any one makes his temples, behind his ears, and his forehead alike, so that the circumference of his head is found to be round all about, as if they had been cut as with a bowl; and so the Arabians cut their hair, as Herodotus (b) reports; see Gill on Jeremiah 9:26,
neither shall thou mar the corners of thy beard; by shaving them entirely; Jarchi and other Jewish writers say, there are five of them, two on the right, as Gersom reckons them, one on the upper jaw, the other on the nether, and two over against them on the left, and one in the place where the nether jaw joins the right to the left, the chin;

So then, it appears the Bible forbids, not trimming the beard as to length or neatness, but the shaving of the beard off the face, either in whole or in part (thus goatees are forbidden).

[Esaias]

In a rough and ready way, of course, this question is decided for us by spirits far deeper down in the Lowerarchy than you and I. It is the business of these great masters to produce in every age a general misdirection of what may be called sexual “taste”. This they do by working through the small circle of popular artists, dressmakers, actresses and advertisers who determine the fashionable type. The aim is to guide each sex away from those members of the other with whom spiritually helpful, happy, and fertile marriages are most likely.

Thus we have now for many centuries triumphed over nature to the extent of making certain secondary characteristics of the male (such as the beard) disagreeable to nearly all the females—and there is more in that than you might suppose.

CS Lewis, Screwtape Letters, Letter XX

[houston]

So, Esaias looks like the cast ofnDuck Dinasty. :happydance

[Amanah]

So, Esaias looks like the cast ofnDuck Dinasty. :happydance

with a red beard since he is Irish?

[jediwill83]

with a red beard since he is Irish?

I was born a redhead and when I first grew mine out bout 7 years ago I thought it was pretty cool that my beard was mostly red.

[Esaias]

I'm a blond, actually. Its gotten pretty dark over the years, but still technically blond.

I couldn't grow an "epic" beard if my life depended on it. Closest I've gotten is east Texas redneck Skynyrd fan beard. No ZZ Top in my DNA, apparently.

:D

[Captain]

Unless I have missed something, the only beards that are approved in the Bible would be uncut ones.
This is a common misconception but no, marring the corners of the beard no more meant an uncut beard than did not rounding the corners of your head meant uncut hair on the head. Marring the “edges” of the beard as this verse is more accurately translated means cutting various shapes or cuts into the beard. As in goatees, or the like. It was common pagan practice to cut odd shapes into the hair of the head and the beard. No mohawks and no sculpted facial hair.

This is even argued amongst modern day Jews so I know there’s not going total agreement on this, but it’s backed up by the full context of the verse i.e. not cutting unnatural shapes in the scalp hair OR the beard.

We also have evidence from 2 Samuel 19:24 when David was dealing with the uprising of Absalom. Mephibosheth was in a state of mourning of sorts and the Bible said he hadn’t taken care of his feet, nor washed his clothes or trimmed his beard. Again, considering the context of the whole thing, it is clear that it was normal and expected for him to have trimmed his beard.

[Aquila]

The beard was regarded by the Hebrews and other eastern nations as the greatest ornament of a man, and was as dear to them as life itself.

Stay bearded my friends. ;)

[Ferd]

The Bible has no prohibition against facial hair and no prohibition against shaving off a facial hair. Not one verse telling men they are an abomination for not having a beard or having a beard. This and the Deuteronomy 22:5 thread are like comparing lemons and bowling balls.

Now that consapente89 mentioned some who God told them to call on Norelco. I have a few stories one has to do with a Cuban brother of mine who had the biggest moustache. We were in prayer meeting and he was hit hard with the Holy Ghost. Power of God was all over him (if you don't know what I'm talking about then go to an Apostolic church and find out) we had a great prayer meeting. The next time I saw him he was clean shaven. Personally I was shocked, I looked at my wife and her eyes were as big as Kennedy half a dollars. I asked him what happened? Where was the cookie duster? He told me without blinking an eye, and told me Jesus dealt with it in the prayer meeting. Now I was puzzled because there isn't a prohibition against facial hair nor is their an admonition to have facial hair. So, I mentioned this to my pastor, and some other elders.

The issue that this brother had, had little to do with the moustache. But with pride concerning the moustache. I remember we were in a Bible study years before this event. The Bible study was about forgiveness, and self sacrifice. Well, this brother leaped up and told everyone that he would NEVER shave off his lip cover. All 50 of us looked at him and shrugged our shoulders, with Mr Spock puzzled looks. He then proclaimed "my moustache is ME man!"


I remember a older sister replying to him "well that so sweet, why don't you sit down and join us"

So many things happen to us personally on so many levels when we allow the conviction of Jesus Christ to deal with us. Jesus is our pastor and He knows how to get the job done. I'm not called to go 500 pages with Aquila, to me it is like having a comic book collection, or Hot Wheels collection or even coins. It is somewhat relaxing to a point. But you always have to keep in mind that the person you are going round and round the mulberry bush with, is not going to change their position. They're convinced, signed, sealed, and delivered.

Only Jesus can change a heart, or close it shut. I just call'em like I see'em. Someone believes Deuteronomy 22:5 is about a pagan religious ceremony? Who am I to change their mind, they have far more bigger fish to fry in their skillet then if a woman can wear a pair of seal skin pants.

2017 we are heading towards 2018. This place is sinking like proverbial Atlantis. The amount of perversion is rolling its tentacles around the throat of Christendom of this country. I will never forget the time Pastor Keith McCann made a statement which went like this, "the Russian Orthodox clergy were arguing about the length of tassels on their robes. When the Communists took over the country" At that point I realized that the amount of Christians on these forums who really care are slim to none. Flamethrowing red hot Holy Ghost services are cooling down. Prayer rooms have more brooms, buckets, then weeping and snotting. Had an amazing service today, troubled teens getting blessed by the move of the Holy Ghost. Maybe one will catch a vision and go forward. My main scope of work is my city and county. If I can help my brothers around the country or around the world. But as far as forum crusading goes we just post what we believe and fly it up the flagpole. If it gets a thumbs up then hip hip hooray. If it gets attacked then on with the show. But when all is said and done we will all have to give an account for everything we have done. If we were a help or a hindrance.

Transgender United States of America and we go 600 posts on Deuteronomy 22:5. Good God from Zion.

We did more than blow the engine on this one.

I would like to report to you my dear friend, that our church has had some of its most red hot services in the last month. God has blessed beyond belief...

That has little if anything to do with this thread, other than you point out some truth... as it relates to this thread, the beard is not an issue in any amount in our local assembly. thank God....

[Evang.Benincasa]

I would like to report to you my dear friend, that our church has had some of its most red hot services in the last month. God has blessed beyond belief...

That has little if anything to do with this thread, other than you point out some truth... as it relates to this thread, the beard is not an issue in any amount in our local assembly. thank God....

How's your family doing?

Keeping you all in prayer my brother.

In Jesus name.

[FlamingZword]

I am a person who avoids debates, but I am sick and tired of this idiotic doctrine that having beards is evil.

I do not have a beard, so I got nothing to gain, but I challenge any preacher to debate me on this issue using the Bible.

Yes I know it is kind of silly for me who does not wear a beard to debate in favor of the beard, but I am simply fed up with such idiocy.

I will prove from scriptures that there is absolutely nothing wrong with men wearing beards, come on, I am ready to take any preacher on this subject.

It is time to put a stop to such foolish nonsense, and I am willing to have a public debate on this subject. any takers?

[UnTraditional]

I am a person who avoids debates, but I am sick and tired of this idiotic doctrine that having beards is evil.

I do not have a beard, so I got nothing to gain, but I challenge any preacher to debate me on this issue using the Bible.

Yes I know it is kind of silly for me who does not wear a beard to debate in favor of the beard, but I am simply fed up with such idiocy.

I will prove from scriptures that there is absolutely nothing wrong with men wearing beards, come on, I am ready to take any preacher on this subject.

It is time to put a stop to such foolish nonsense, and I am willing to have a public debate on this subject. any takers?

Where is the Like button?! Why can't I find the Like button already?!

Great post!

[Amanah]

I am a person who avoids debates, but I am sick and tired of this idiotic doctrine that having beards is evil.

I do not have a beard, so I got nothing to gain, but I challenge any preacher to debate me on this issue using the Bible.

Yes I know it is kind of silly for me who does not wear a beard to debate in favor of the beard, but I am simply fed up with such idiocy.

I will prove from scriptures that there is absolutely nothing wrong with men wearing beards, come on, I am ready to take any preacher on this subject.

It is time to put a stop to such foolish nonsense, and I am willing to have a public debate on this subject. any takers?

this is easily solved, all men should just grow a beard, have a beard strike, withhold tithes and offerings till the beard ban is lifted. Women could care a less to be honest, stubbles are irritating.

[Evang.Benincasa]

My beard went down to my belt. When I had my Fumanchu it was always soaked when I was eating and drinking. Clean shaven is good choice for ME. FZ needs to grow a beard :D

[Amanah]

My beard went down to my belt. When I had my Fumanchu it was always soaked when I was eating and drinking. Clean shaven is good choice for ME. FZ needs to grow a beard :D

I see your point, I'm thinking your wife is thankful your beard is gone. :heeheehee

[Aquila]

this is easily solved, all men should just grow a beard, have a beard strike, withhold tithes and offerings till the beard ban is lifted. Women could care a less to be honest, stubbles are irritating.

My love likes my beard. When I shaved it last, she was disappointed and made me promise to grow it out again. But, that's her preference I guess.

Honestly it doesn't matter if a man wears a beard or not. The issue I have is that there is no biblical law for or against it. Yet we often behave as though there is. There isn't a biblical mandate on the issue. So, to prohibit beards or to require beards is going well above and beyond what is found in Scripture. It's sad that our founders in this movement were so fixated on such trivial matters. We waist more energy and time debating over these non-issues than we should, because of them. Now, I say this with much hesitation... our founders were spiritual giants in some things... and truly spiritually immature babes in others. God gave a great and awesome revelation to a humble and simple people. We shouldn't judge and condemn them in areas where their spiritual immaturity might show. We would have done the same thing. And I'm sure that we are doing the same thing in other areas today. What we should do is honor them by growing beyond the limitations they had, and striving to come into the fullness of maturity in Christ.

Until then...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BkuEF3ZIUAIZWQ1.jpg:large

[Aquila]

I thought this was funny. Some of you bearded men who are military movie nuts might enjoy this:

:lol

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/de/e8/63/dee863714704a201968d688eead3e1a3--awesome-beards-beard-styles.jpg

[Ferd]

How's your family doing?

Keeping you all in prayer my brother.

In Jesus name.
very well. we are getting ready for school to start...

[Michael The Disciple]

Lets not lose sight of the real issue among Apostolic Churches. The great majority (from what I understand) still teach that at worst a beard is a sin and at best they are somewhat shameful even to the point you cannot "minister on the platform" if you have one.

This along with the doctrine that if a woman trims her hair (even if it is still long) cannot enter Heaven have turned away multitudes of sincere Jesus loving people from the faith.

And yet many still think we should "honor" such Preachers. We will honor them when they humble themselves and admit they have done wrong and move on and stop hindering Gods work.

[TakingDominion]

I was having this discussion with my wife last night, (not specifically beards, but more along the lines of church traditions that we hold as biblical absolutes). The problem isn't the beards, the problem is with the mindset that says we can't change!

I was talking about how church folks in general and apostolics especially are against changing anything. Changing the lights, changing the pulpit (gasp), trading pews for chairs (liberals!) is usually met with cries of compromise and rhetoric about holding on to the "old paths".

She immediately accused me of compromise on things like dress standards etc. To that point in the conversation, I hadn't brought up dress standards at all. And that is the problem. Pennycostals hear the word change, and they immediately correlate it with "letting down standards" or compromising the message.

I told her, I'm not advocating changing the message. I'm saying we should look at changing the methods. Paul said, I have become all things to all people in order to try and save some!

I don't know what you guys are seeing, but in my local church we are LOSING this generation. I believe the biggest problem is that in rejecting any change within the conservative apostolic movement, we are not becoming all things to all people. In rejecting social media, we are rejecting the BIGGEST medium teenagers use today. In rejecting any change in service structure, we are telling the next generation they have to worship just like grandpa did. The truth is, this generation doesn't do ANYTHING like grandpa did anymore.

[Amanah]

I was having this discussion with my wife last night, (not specifically beards, but more along the lines of church traditions that we hold as biblical absolutes). The problem isn't the beards, the problem is with the mindset that says we can't change!

I was talking about how church folks in general and apostolics especially are against changing anything. Changing the lights, changing the pulpit (gasp), trading pews for chairs (liberals!) is usually met with cries of compromise and rhetoric about holding on to the "old paths".

She immediately accused me of compromise on things like dress standards etc. To that point in the conversation, I hadn't brought up dress standards at all. And that is the problem. Pennycostals hear the word change, and they immediately correlate it with "letting down standards" or compromising the message.

I told her, I'm not advocating changing the message. I'm saying we should look at changing the methods. Paul said, I have become all things to all people in order to try and save some!

I don't know what you guys are seeing, but in my local church we are LOSING this generation. I believe the biggest problem is that in rejecting any change within the conservative apostolic movement, we are not becoming all things to all people. In rejecting social media, we are rejecting the BIGGEST medium teenagers use today. In rejecting any change in service structure, we are telling the next generation they have to worship just like grandpa did. The truth is, this generation doesn't do ANYTHING like grandpa did anymore.

This is an important issue and also a slippery slope, I watched a UC church circle the drain when it let down standards in the hope of trying to save the youth group we were losing. I don't have answers but like your wife, it's one of my biggest concerns.

The other being, how do we make course corrections without becoming worldly and lost in entertainment forgetting the prayer closet.

We need to focus first on saving our families, and then on reaching the lost. If we save 30 people and our kids die lost, what is that worth?

[JoeBandy]

This is an important issue and also a slippery slope, I watched a UC church circle the drain when it let down standards in the hope of trying to save the youth group we were losing. I don't have answers but like your wife, it's one of my biggest concerns.

The other being, how do we make course corrections without becoming worldly and lost in entertainment forgetting the prayer closet.

We need to focus first on saving our families, and then on reaching the lost. If we save 30 people and our kids die lost, what is that worth?

I do not want to come across the wrong way with this... first off I do know what you mean by the word "we". If you lead 30 people to salvation that's awesome! But to ask if our kids die lost what is it worth??? Ask those 30 people!!! Our kids have their own salvation to work out! Do you not love thy neighbor as thyself??

[Amanah]

I do not want to come across the wrong way with this... first off I do know what you mean by the word "we". If you lead 30 people to salvation that's awesome! But to ask if our kids die lost what is it worth??? Ask those 30 people!!! Our kids have their own salvation to work out! Do you not love thy neighbor as thyself??

I have won many families, many who still are in contact with me and thank me for teaching them home bible studies and such.

But I almost lost my son while I was so busy in church ministry, teaching home bible studies, visitation follow up, bus ministry, teaching Sunday School. Involved with the Youth Group. When he walked away from church I felt like I was going to die. I feel like I was gone more than I should have been reaching others and somehow missed seeing what my own child needed.

Now I feel like the first priority needs to be securing our children, and then reaching the lost.

If you don't agree that is fine.

[houston]

I have won many families, many who still are in contact with me and thank me for teaching them home bible studies and such.

But I almost lost my son while I was so busy in church ministry, teaching home bible studies, visitation follow up, bus ministry, teaching Sunday School. Involved with the Youth Group. When he walked away from church I felt like I was going to die. I feel like I was gone more than I should have been reaching others and somehow missed seeing what my own child needed.

Now I feel like the first priority needs to be securing our children, and then reaching the lost.

If you don't agree that is fine.

The mindset for many is church first, family second. Strong churches don't make for strong families. Strong families make strong churches.

[n david]

The mindset for many is church first, family second. Strong churches don't make for strong families. Strong families make strong churches.

:thumbsup

[n david]

Now I feel like the first priority needs to be securing our children, and then reaching the lost.

If you don't agree that is fine.

:thumbsup

[returnman]

I was having this discussion with my wife last night, (not specifically beards, but more along the lines of church traditions that we hold as biblical absolutes). The problem isn't the beards, the problem is with the mindset that says we can't change!

I was talking about how church folks in general and apostolics especially are against changing anything. Changing the lights, changing the pulpit (gasp), trading pews for chairs (liberals!) is usually met with cries of compromise and rhetoric about holding on to the "old paths".

She immediately accused me of compromise on things like dress standards etc. To that point in the conversation, I hadn't brought up dress standards at all. And that is the problem. Pennycostals hear the word change, and they immediately correlate it with "letting down standards" or compromising the message.

I told her, I'm not advocating changing the message. I'm saying we should look at changing the methods. Paul said, I have become all things to all people in order to try and save some!

I don't know what you guys are seeing, but in my local church we are LOSING this generation. I believe the biggest problem is that in rejecting any change within the conservative apostolic movement, we are not becoming all things to all people. In rejecting social media, we are rejecting the BIGGEST medium teenagers use today. In rejecting any change in service structure, we are telling the next generation they have to worship just like grandpa did. The truth is, this generation doesn't do ANYTHING like grandpa did anymore.

Very admirable for you to acknowledge this issue. The statistics for decades have always been that the UPC lost 90% of their youth eventually. There has been a lot of changes from what I see even from my distant vantage point. Young people need to participate in activities with others outside the church such as sports. Here is a big reason why that I even pointed out years ago. When they went to work at the big grocery store or where ever they mix with the world eventually. I saw it time and again where they were so brittle they succumbed immediately trying to be accepted. Not every church is so large they can incorporate enough activity to keep youth occupied till they are in their early 20's. I know I'll get blasted.

[JoeBandy]

The mindset for many is church first, family second. Strong churches don't make for strong families. Strong families make strong churches.

:thumbsup

[Aquila]

I've seen churches let down the dress standards and something strange happens... the preachers don't return to those passages that teach modesty as frequently as they used to. It's almost as though they don't know how to interpret those things outside of the "standards" they were taught back when they held those standards. Christian modesty is indeed a biblical practice. Even if a church ceases to require dresses and skirts on women, or allows men to wear short sleeves, it doesn't mean that now Daisy Dukes and muscle shirts are appropriate attire. Just because you allow shorts, it doesn't mean that Speedos are appropriate.

There has to be a spiritual balance to it all.

And when it comes to beards... there is absolutely no biblical basis for requiring them or prohibiting them. And some preachers might say, "Not on my platform.", well, that might not be the kind of preacher you want. Because the church isn't his, it's Christ's. And if Jesus had a problem with beards, the Bible would make it plain.

Most churches I visit don't make a big deal out of beards at all. But in Apostolic churches I'm often treated like a second class citizen and my salvation is questioned. Why? Because I'm a man? Because I'm growing what my Father naturally gave me? Doth not even nature teach you that only women and children don't have beards? LOL What gives?

This weekend a Methodist pastor who is a dear friend of mine paid for me to go on a non-denominational retreat known as The Walk to Emmaus. Beginning on Thursday night, myself and about 20 other men from various denominations will be shut into a church for prayer, discussion, life application teaching, confession, and healing. Oh, and there will be food. That's why I'm going. lol We'll be there until late Sunday evening. But I'm willing to wager that not a single person on this retreat will even really care if I have a beard. If it were an Apostolic church, I'd not even be invited.

[JoeBandy]

Very admirable for you to acknowledge this issue. The statistics for decades have always been that the UPC lost 90% of their youth eventually. There has been a lot of changes from what I see even from my distant vantage point. Young people need to participate in activities with others outside the church such as sports. Here is a big reason why that I even pointed out years ago. When they went to work at the big grocery store or where ever they mix with the world eventually. I saw it time and again where they were so brittle they succumbed immediately trying to be accepted. Not every church is so large they can incorporate enough activity to keep youth occupied till they are in their early 20's. I know I'll get blasted.

I agree with you, plus have additional points I may add later.

[JoeBandy]

I have won many families, many who still are in contact with me and thank me for teaching them home bible studies and such.

But I almost lost my son while I was so busy in church ministry, teaching home bible studies, visitation follow up, bus ministry, teaching Sunday School. Involved with the Youth Group. When he walked away from church I felt like I was going to die. I feel like I was gone more than I should have been reaching others and somehow missed seeing what my own child needed.

Now I feel like the first priority needs to be securing our children, and then reaching the lost.

If you don't agree that is fine.

I agree with "children'' being a priority. However it is impossible to "secure" them as they become adults.

[returnman]

I've seen churches let down the dress standards and something strange happens... the preachers don't return to those passages that teach modesty as frequently as they used to. It's almost as though they don't know how to interpret those things outside of the "standards" they were taught back when they held those standards. Christian modesty is indeed a biblical practice. Even if a church ceases to require dresses and skirts on women, or allows men to wear short sleeves, it doesn't mean that now Daisy Dukes and muscle shirts are appropriate attire. Just because you allow shorts, it doesn't mean that Speedos are appropriate.

There has to be a spiritual balance to it all.

And when it comes to beards... there is absolutely no biblical basis for requiring them or prohibiting them. And some preachers might say, "Not on my platform.", well, that might not be the kind of preacher you want. Because the church isn't his, it's Christ's. And if Jesus had a problem with beards, the Bible would make it plain.

Most churches I visit don't make a big deal out of beards at all. But in Apostolic churches I'm often treated like a second class citizen and my salvation is questioned. Why? Because I'm a man? Because I'm growing what my Father naturally gave me? Doth not even nature teach you that only women and children don't have beards? LOL What gives?

This weekend a Methodist pastor who is a dear friend of mine paid for me to go on a non-denominational retreat known as The Walk to Emmaus. Beginning on Thursday night, myself and about 20 other men from various denominations will be shut into a church for prayer, discussion, life application teaching, confession, and healing. Oh, and there will be food. That's why I'm going. lol We'll be there until late Sunday evening. But I'm willing to wager that not a single person on this retreat will even really care if I have a beard. If it were an Apostolic church, I'd not even be invited.

It's a security set within cultural walls. Period. No pastor is ever going to admit that rather he will use his authority to exercise the enforcement of it.

[TakingDominion]

This is an important issue and also a slippery slope, I watched a UC church circle the drain when it let down standards in the hope of trying to save the youth group we were losing. I don't have answers but like your wife, it's one of my biggest concerns.

The other being, how do we make course corrections without becoming worldly and lost in entertainment forgetting the prayer closet.

We need to focus first on saving our families, and then on reaching the lost. If we save 30 people and our kids die lost, what is that worth?

Again, I'm not advocating changing dress standards. I don't think teens mind holiness standards if we're honest with them about the reason for standards.

It's not about changing standards, it's about the Church staying relevant!

[n david]

Again, I'm not advocating changing dress standards. I don't think teens mind holiness standards if we're honest with them about the reason for standards.

It's not about changing standards, it's about the Church staying relevant!

I was waiting for the "r" word.

smh

[Aquila]

I was waiting for the "r" word.

smh

I know. Everyone knows that the last thing we want is to be relevant. :heeheehee

[n david]

I know. Everyone knows that the last thing we want is to be relevant. :heeheehee
Relevance is overrated. A large problem with modern Christianity is it has fallen for the lie of the need to be relevant.

[TakingDominion]

Relevance is overrated. A large problem with modern Christianity is it has fallen for the lie of the need to be relevant.

wasn't that what Paul was striving for when he wrote 1 Corinthians 9:19?

19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.

20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;

21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

[n david]

wasn't that what Paul was striving for when he wrote 1 Corinthians 9:19?

19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.

20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;

21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

No.

[Aquila]

Definitions:


rel·e·vant.
.[ˈreləvənt]
ADJECTIVE
closely connected or appropriate to what is being done or considered:
"what small companies need is relevant advice" ·
[more]
synonyms: pertinent · applicable · apposite · material · apropos · to the point · germane · connected · related · linked · on-topic
•appropriate to the current time, period, or circumstances; of contemporary interest:
"critics may find themselves unable to stay relevant in a changing world" ·
[more]


ir·rel·e·vant.
.[əˈreləvənt]
ADJECTIVE
not connected with or relevant to something.
synonyms: beside the point · immaterial · not pertinent · not germane · off the subject · unconnected · unrelated · peripheral · extraneous · inapposite · inapplicable · unimportant · inconsequential ·
[more]

Personally, I'd rather be "relevant".

Whenever we have these conversations about relevancy, I picture some old-timer from the brush arbor days all in a tizzy over churches wanting air conditioning. lol

[Aquila]

Relevance is overrated. A large problem with modern Christianity is it has fallen for the lie of the need to be relevant.

What exactly is it about being "relevant" that you disagree with? We might agree on most things. I've never had it broken down for me.