THe Current PCI Beliefs

[Charlie Brown]

I would venture to guess that on AFF folks with "PCI Beliefs" concerning salvation differ as much as the Oneness understanding differs from Apostolic to Apostolic. I think it would be interesting to see if that is a correct surmising. So would those of you that are what we call PCI in doctrine please explain where you stand in regards to salvation.

[ManOfWord]

Sure, why not?

Sincere repentance and surrender of one's life to Jesus Christ makes one rapture ready.

Water Baptism is to be done in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ (in whatever form) The initial receiving of the baptism of the Holy Ghost is evidenced by speaking in tongues.

Water baptism and HGB are necessary. The question is, necessary for what?
My answer is obedience and power.

There you have it. That's where I stand and I'm stickin' to it! :D

[SDG]

Sure, why not?

Sincere repentance and surrender of one's life to Jesus Christ makes one rapture ready.

Water Baptism is to be done in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ (in whatever form) The initial receiving of the baptism of the Holy Ghost is evidenced by speaking in tongues.

Water baptism and HGB are necessary. The question is, necessary for what?
My answer is obedience and power.

There you have it. That's where I stand and I'm stickin' to it! :D

Ditto.

[Mr. Steinway]

Sure, why not?

Sincere repentance and surrender of one's life to Jesus Christ makes one rapture ready.

Water Baptism is to be done in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ (in whatever form) The initial receiving of the baptism of the Holy Ghost is evidenced by speaking in tongues.

Water baptism and HGB are necessary. The question is, necessary for what?
My answer is obedience and power.

There you have it. That's where I stand and I'm stickin' to it! :D
Very nice short and concise answer! I agree with you! :)

[Ronzo]

Sure, why not?

Sincere repentance and surrender of one's life to Jesus Christ makes one rapture ready.

Water Baptism is to be done in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ (in whatever form) The initial receiving of the baptism of the Holy Ghost is evidenced by speaking in tongues.

Water baptism and HGB are necessary. The question is, necessary for what?
My answer is obedience and power.

There you have it. That's where I stand and I'm stickin' to it! :D

Yep

[RevDWW]

Sure, why not?

Sincere repentance and surrender of one's life to Jesus Christ makes one rapture ready.

Water Baptism is to be done in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ (in whatever form) The initial receiving of the baptism of the Holy Ghost is evidenced by speaking in tongues.

Water baptism and HGB are necessary. The question is, necessary for what?
My answer is obedience and power.

There you have it. That's where I stand and I'm stickin' to it! :D

Would Noah have been saved without building and entering into the ark?
Would Namaan have been cleansed without dipping 7 times?

[OneAccord]

1. Repentance, being sorry, and turning from sin, brings forgiveness of sin. The Blood of Christ, shed at the death of Christ, takes away our sin when we die to sin at repentance. A p[erson who has truly repented and had his soul cleasned by the Blood of Christ, is ready to meet the Lord.

2. Once a person repents, he should be instucted as to the purpose of water baptism and, as an act of obedience to the Word of God, is to be baptized in water by immersion in the Name of Jesus Christ. This is his response of obedience to being a child of God.

3. God gave the promise of the Holy Ghost as enduement of power enabling us to live a victorious Christian life, and through the Holy Ghost, we are raise in newness of Life. The baptism of the Holy Ghost is evidenced by speaking in tongues.

4. A Christian is to live a godly life that goes beyond a mere dress code. All that he does, with special emphasis on conduct and conversation, is to be holy. He is to keep himself unspotted from the world and live a life in conformity to the life and teachings of Jesus Christ.

[ManOfWord]

Would Noah have been saved without building and entering into the ark?
Would Namaan have been cleansed without dipping 7 times?



Your point would be?

[Ronzo]

Would Noah have been saved without building and entering into the ark?
Would Namaan have been cleansed without dipping 7 times?

Would either of them done those things without faith?

[OneAccord]

Originally Posted by RevDWW
Would Noah have been saved without building and entering into the ark?
Would Namaan have been cleansed without dipping 7 times?

Nope and Nope. But that has nothing to do with water. Its does, however, have everything to do with obedience. Water didn't save Noah, nor did water heal Naaman. Even Hebrews states "BY faith, Noah..." Faith (obeying and responding to the word) is what saves us. Not water. Water baptism is our response of obedience for what Jesus did for us at repentance.

[SDG]

Nope and Nope. But that has nothing to do with water. Its does, however, have everything to do with obedience. Water didn't save Noah, nor did water heal Naaman. Even Hebrews states "BY faith, Noah..." Faith (obeying and responding to the word) is what saves us. Not water. Water baptism is our response of obedience for what Jesus did for us at repentance.

You mean the water doesn't transubstantiate to blood or wash away my sins ....or somehow the blood is applied through the water ???? :heeheehee

[Ronzo]

Dude... if it was bloody water, I wouldn't have gotten in it to be baptized.

;)

[SDG]

You gotta love the guys at the True Jesus church who have take the baptismal regeneration doctrine to a new height ....

"Water baptism is the sacrament for the remission of sins for regeneration. The baptism must take place in natural living water, such as the river, sea, or spring. The Baptist, who already has had received baptism of water and the Holy Spirit, conducts the baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. And the person receiving the baptism must be completely immersed in water with head bowed and face downward."

See their statement of faith .... (http://www.tjc.org/catLanding.aspx?tab=about&catno=about01)

[OneAccord]

You mean the water doesn't transubstantiate to blood or wash away my sins ....or somehow the blood is applied through the water ???? :heeheehee

Nope and Nope again, bro.

[The Kid]

Y'all are backsliders...


:heeheehee

[OneAccord]

No, not a backslider. I believe what I have always believed (haven't changed a thing). Not a backslider, just a Pathetic Compromising Ingrate as someone else said on another (and related) thread.

[Ronzo]

Y'all are backsliders...


:heeheehee
Go whittle some wood...

[OneAccord]

Oh-Oh...Epleys in da house...We're in for some zingy oneliners now!

[Steve Epley]

Hate to disappoint y'all there is NO such thing as a PCI existing today y'all are about 60 years behind.

[ManOfWord]

Hate to disappoint y'all there is NO such thing as a PCI existing today y'all are about 60 years behind.

You're about 60 yrs too late for that statement! :D

[SDG]

Hate to disappoint y'all there is NO such thing as a PCI existing today y'all are about 60 years behind.

Well ... not your neck of the woods ... The AS assured the annihilation of our kind.

[Steve Epley]

The PCI no longer exists. Only in memory.:bliss :bliss

[OneAccord]

What??? No Pentecostal Church, Incorporated? When, what happened? Why wasn't I notified? I'll call Bro. Goss and get down to the bottom of this!

No, the PCI no longer exists. But the same truth prevails. Something good about SAMENESS. Seems like I read that somewhere.

[Steve Epley]

Well ... not your neck of the woods ... The AS assured the annihilation of our kind.

Who are the officials aand where is the headquarters???????????? And who are the members????????????????

Number one they wouldn't let most of you guys have a license back then for what you preach and believe.

[Sherri]

1. Repentance, being sorry, and turning from sin, brings forgiveness of sin. The Blood of Christ, shed at the death of Christ, takes away our sin when we die to sin at repentance. A p[erson who has truly repented and had his soul cleasned by the Blood of Christ, is ready to meet the Lord.

2. Once a person repents, he should be instucted as to the purpose of water baptism and, as an act of obedience to the Word of God, is to be baptized in water by immersion in the Name of Jesus Christ. This is his response of obedience to being a child of God.

3. God gave the promise of the Holy Ghost as enduement of power enabling us to live a victorious Christian life, and through the Holy Ghost, we are raise in newness of Life. The baptism of the Holy Ghost is evidenced by speaking in tongues.

4. A Christian is to live a godly life that goes beyond a mere dress code. All that he does, with special emphasis on conduct and conversation, is to be holy. He is to keep himself unspotted from the world and live a life in conformity to the life and teachings of Jesus Christ.

Great post!!

[ManOfWord]

Great post!!

Well, so far, we've got concensus, but I know that could change! :D

[Nahum]

Sure, why not?

Sincere repentance and surrender of one's life to Jesus Christ makes one rapture ready.

Water Baptism is to be done in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ (in whatever form) The initial receiving of the baptism of the Holy Ghost is evidenced by speaking in tongues.

Water baptism and HGB are necessary. The question is, necessary for what?
My answer is obedience and power.

There you have it. That's where I stand and I'm stickin' to it! :D

Originally posted by Daniel:
Ditto

Daniel, you finally admit what you believe?
This is pretty much what I surmised on the other thread, and you denied it.

Lilly-liver :heeheehee

[Sam]

You gotta love the guys at the True Jesus church who have take the baptismal regeneration doctrine to a new height ....

"Water baptism is the sacrament for the remission of sins for regeneration. The baptism must take place in natural living water, such as the river, sea, or spring. The Baptist, who already has had received baptism of water and the Holy Spirit, conducts the baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. And the person receiving the baptism must be completely immersed in water with head bowed and face downward."

See their statement of faith .... (http://www.tjc.org/catLanding.aspx?tab=about&catno=about01)

Well, as far as we know, mikveh/baptism/ritual cleansing was to be done in running water and the person self-immersed three times. That was most likely the method used by John the Baptist, then Jesus, then the followers of Jesus who became the NT church.

This is a quote from The Didache which was written some time between 50 AD and 250 AD (various dates are given). It is part of chapter 15 of the Book of Acts in some Bibles. It mentions the three fold immersion in living or running water.

7:1 But concerning baptism, thus shall ye baptize.
7:2 Having first recited all these things, baptize {in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit} in living (running) water.
7:3 But if thou hast not living water, then baptize in other water;
7:4 and if thou art not able in cold, then in warm.
7:5 But if thou hast neither, then pour water on the head thrice in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
7:6 But before the baptism let him that baptizeth and him that is baptized fast, and any others also who are able;
7:7 and thou shalt order him that is baptized to fast a day or two before.

[SDG]

Daniel, you finally admit what you believe?
This is pretty much what I surmised on the other thread, and you denied it.

Lilly-liver :heeheehee

Wording is everything ... PP ...

[ManOfWord]

Well, as far as we know, mikveh/baptism/ritual cleansing was to be done in running water and the person self-immersed three times. That was most likely the method used by John the Baptist, then Jesus, then the followers of Jesus who became the NT church.

This is a quote from The Didache which was written some time between 50 AD and 250 AD (various dates are given). It is part of chapter 15 of the Book of Acts in some Bibles. It mentions the three fold immersion in living or running water.

7:1 But concerning baptism, thus shall ye baptize.
7:2 Having first recited all these things, baptize {in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit} in living (running) water.
7:3 But if thou hast not living water, then baptize in other water;
7:4 and if thou art not able in cold, then in warm.
7:5 But if thou hast neither, then pour water on the head thrice in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
7:6 But before the baptism let him that baptizeth and him that is baptized fast, and any others also who are able;
7:7 and thou shalt order him that is baptized to fast a day or two before.


Welcome Sam!!! We missed you!!!! :D

[freeatlast]

Gotta say I am in agreement with my brothers on the bible (or former PCI view) doctrine of salvation.

It's not near as confusing as some of ya all (3 to 7 steppers) try to make it.

[Sam]

Welcome Sam!!! We missed you!!!! :D

Well, I'm on GNC, actually been there for quite some time.
I'm also on forums called Bible Talk, Apostolic Library, and Christian Koinonia.

[SDG]

Sam ... I'm so glad ... that I repented of my sins ...and born of God in 1980.

endued w/ power when I received the baptism of the Holy Ghost [Oct 4, 1981]

and

obeyed His command to be water baptized in Jesus name [Nov. 8,1981]


http://respiracreative.com/baptism.jpg

EN EL NOMBRE DE JESUS ... BRONX, NY

[Felicity]

1. Repentance, being sorry, and turning from sin, brings forgiveness of sin. The Blood of Christ, shed at the death of Christ, takes away our sin when we die to sin at repentance. A p[erson who has truly repented and had his soul cleasned by the Blood of Christ, is ready to meet the Lord.

2. Once a person repents, he should be instucted as to the purpose of water baptism and, as an act of obedience to the Word of God, is to be baptized in water by immersion in the Name of Jesus Christ. This is his response of obedience to being a child of God.

3. God gave the promise of the Holy Ghost as enduement of power enabling us to live a victorious Christian life, and through the Holy Ghost, we are raise in newness of Life. The baptism of the Holy Ghost is evidenced by speaking in tongues.

4. A Christian is to live a godly life that goes beyond a mere dress code. All that he does, with special emphasis on conduct and conversation, is to be holy. He is to keep himself unspotted from the world and live a life in conformity to the life and teachings of Jesus Christ.Good summation ... except that I'd add to #1 that we are born again/spiritually regenerated at that point - not just forgiven.

I'd also emphasize the necessity of water baptism for salvation. I just don't see how a person can be saved without it.

[OneAccord]

Good summation ... except that I'd add to #1 that we are born again/spiritually regenerated at that point - not just forgiven.

I'd also emphasize the necessity of water baptism for salvation. I just don't see how a person can be saved without it.

You are correct. When sins are forgiven, we become new creatures in Christ as Paul taught. We are regenerated... we die to sin, and are made alive in Christ.

I do believe in the necessity of water baptism as obedience to what the Bible teaches. Baptism is that first step a new born Christian tales in completely surrendering his all to the Lord.

[Felicity]

You are correct. When sins are forgiven, we become new creatures in Christ as Paul taught. We are regenerated... we die to sin, and are made alive in Christ.

I do believe in the necessity of water baptism as obedience to what the Bible teaches. Baptism is that first step a new born Christian tales in completely surrendering his all to the Lord.Then I think we're pretty much in total agreement here!

Except one other thing........ I don't think we do baptism right. I think repentance and baptism are supposed to go together like hand in glove. I think we make too much separation between the two because it's pretty plain in scripture they're very very much linked together in regard to forgiveness and repentance.

[OneAccord]

Then I think we're in total agreement here! :highfive


Maybe, but... well you're a woman and well...if I agree with ya that may mean you are 'surpin' my authority as a manly man and, well...you know I can't have you 'surpin' my authorty. :killinme

I appreciate your spirit, you say what you mean and mean what you say without being mean about it!

[ManOfWord]

I'm in agreement here.

I believe that the scripures teach that we are justified at repentance. To me, if a person resists water baptism, I question whether they have actually been justified. If you surrender, you surrender!

[SDG]

You are correct. When sins are forgiven, we become new creatures in Christ as Paul taught. We are regenerated... we die to sin, and are made alive in Christ.

I do believe in the necessity of water baptism as obedience to what the Bible teaches. Baptism is that first step a new born Christian tales in completely surrendering his all to the Lord.

Willful disobedience would constitute unbelief.

......The first step of many in a wonderful faith walk ... from faith to faith.

[Sam]

I would venture to guess that on AFF folks with "PCI Beliefs" concerning salvation differ as much as the Oneness understanding differs from Apostolic to Apostolic. I think it would be interesting to see if that is a correct surmising. So would those of you that are what we call PCI in doctrine please explain where you stand in regards to salvation.

Pardon and forgiveness of sins is obtained by genuine repentance, a confessing
and forsaking of sins. We are justified by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ (Romans 5:1).
John the Baptist preached repentance, Jesus proclaimed it, and the apostles emphasized
it to both Jews and Gentiles (Acts 2:38, 11:18, 17:30).

The word "repentance" means a change of views and purpose, change of heart,
change of mind, change of life, transformation, etc.

Jesus said, "Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish" (Luke 13:3).

Luke 24:47 says, "And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached
in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem."

In my opinion, this repentance experience is salvation/justification/regeneration.

[Ronzo]

In the first century, they got baptized BECAUSE of salvation... not to obtain it.

They did it as a public display to identify themselves with Christ. NOT in order to get saved.

[Sam]

Sam ... I'm so glad ... that I repented of my sins ...and born of God in 1980.

endued w/ power when I received the baptism of the Holy Ghost [Oct 4, 1981]

and

obeyed His command to be water baptized in Jesus name [Nov. 8,1981]



I was born again March 28, 1955.
I was baptized in Jesus' Name October 27, 1955.
I was baptized in the Holy Spirit May 20, 1956.

[SDG]

I was born again March 28, 1955.
I was baptized in Jesus' Name October 27, 1955.
I was baptized in the Holy Spirit May 20, 1956.

You got me beat ... good thing it was in the right order .... those breech births can be iffy.

[RevDWW]

Pardon and forgiveness of sins is obtained by genuine repentance, a confessing
and forsaking of sins. We are justified by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ (Romans 5:1).
John the Baptist preached repentance, Jesus proclaimed it, and the apostles emphasized
it to both Jews and Gentiles (Acts 2:38, 11:18, 17:30).

The word "repentance" means a change of views and purpose, change of heart,
change of mind, change of life, transformation, etc.

Jesus said, "Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish" (Luke 13:3).

Luke 24:47 says, "And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached
in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem."

In my opinion, this repentance experience is salvation/justification/regeneration.Isn't this what Peter told the crowd in Acts chaoter 2 say around verse 38?

[ManOfWord]

I was born again March 28, 1955.
I was baptized in Jesus' Name October 27, 1955.
I was baptized in the Holy Spirit May 20, 1956.

I was born again and water baptized in Jesus' name March 7, 1976
I was baptized in the Holy Spirit June 1, 1976

[Barb]

Then I think we're pretty much in total agreement here!

Except one other thing........ I don't think we do baptism right. I think repentance and baptism are supposed to go together like hand in glove. I think we make too much separation between the two because it's pretty plain in scripture they're very very much linked together in regard to forgiveness and repentance.

I agree with this...

[SDG]

I was born again and water baptized in Jesus' name March 7, 1976
I was baptized in the Holy Spirit June 1, 1976

The two-three month interim must've been scary??????

[ManOfWord]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and state that it will probably "shake out" that the PCI'ers will have less disagreement than the PAJC'ers.

[Ronzo]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and state that it will probably "shake out" that the PCI'ers will have less disagreement than the PAJC'ers.
Are you implying they're an ornery bunch?


:heeheehee

[ManOfWord]

The two-three month interim must've been scary??????

Actually, it was. I was very worried that the rapture would take place and I wouldn't make it.

[SDG]

Actually, it was. I was very worried that the rapture would take place and I wouldn't make it.

What a shame ... Imagine how many are going through this right now ... and have endured it ... in years passed ....

[Felicity]

I'm in agreement here.

I believe that the scripures teach that we are justified at repentance. To me, if a person resists water baptism, I question whether they have actually been justified. If you surrender, you surrender!:bow

[tv1a]

This is what I know. (plz correct me if I'm wrong.)
PCI'ers are saved @ repentance, but baptism of water and Spirit is encouraged but not shoved down one's throat. I have serious reservations about this doctrine. I haven't had anyone attempt to answer these questions.

1. I do not understand how a person can be saved at repentance, have Jesus live in their heart, then be filled with the Holy Ghost. How can that be reconciled to the "Oneness" doctrine?

2. I do not understand if Jesus lives in your heart why a person needs the Holy Ghost. It looks like God is sharing space with the Holy Ghost in one's heart.

[ManOfWord]

This is what I know. (plz correct me if I'm wrong.)
PCI'ers are saved @ repentance, but baptism of water and Spirit is encouraged but not shoved down one's throat. I have serious reservations about this doctrine. I haven't had anyone attempt to answer these questions.

1. I do not understand how a person can be saved at repentance, have Jesus live in their heart, then be filled with the Holy Ghost. How can that be reconciled to the "Oneness" doctrine?

2. I do not understand if Jesus lives in your heart why a person needs the Holy Ghost. It looks like God is sharing space with the Holy Ghost in one's heart.

Because there is a difference in experience from repentance to being baptized in the Spirit.

[SDG]

Because there is a difference in experience from repentance to being baptized in the Spirit.

Perhaps, MOW, an illustration would do ... or some deeper clarification ... for my TV friend ... He's searching for truth.

[Scott Hutchinson]

Here is a group with PCI leanings.
http://www.interma.net

[Sam]

This is what I know. (plz correct me if I'm wrong.)
PCI'ers are saved @ repentance, but baptism of water and Spirit is encouraged but not shoved down one's throat. I have serious reservations about this doctrine. I haven't had anyone attempt to answer these questions.

1. I do not understand how a person can be saved at repentance, have Jesus live in their heart, then be filled with the Holy Ghost. How can that be reconciled to the "Oneness" doctrine?

2. I do not understand if Jesus lives in your heart why a person needs the Holy Ghost. It looks like God is sharing space with the Holy Ghost in one's heart.

1. At salvation/regeneration/justification Jesus comes into a person's heart as the Holy Spirit/Spirit of Jesus Christ/Spirit of the Lord/Holy Ghost. He is Christ in you the hope of glory.

2. Baptism in the Spirit is an immersion/overwhelming/saturation/empowerment experience in the Spirit subsequent to salvation

At salvation, the Holy Spirit comes in and takes over and transforms the individual. This is living water within according to John 4 and drinking from the well of salvation according to Isaiah 12. The HGB (Holy Ghost Baptism) is rivers of living water flowing out according to John 7:37-39.

At salvation the Holy Spirit comes in and is like a pilot light (for you who are old enough to remember that term). At HGB the pilot light becomes a flame, energizing, anointing, and releasing gifts in us.

John chapter 20 was a maternity ward. Acts chapter 2 was a bapsitmal tank.

It has been described this way.
Imagine an empty water glass and a pitcher full of water on a table.
1. Lift the pitcher and fill the glass. Set the pitcher back on the table. The glass is full of water. This represents salvation/regeneration.
2. Pick up the glass full of water, and gently lower it into the pitcher of water until it is sitting on its bottom in the pitcher. Now the glass is not only filled with water, it is also submerged/immersed/saturated in the water. This represents the Holy Ghost baptism.

[SDG]

1. At salvation/regeneration/justification Jesus comes into a person's heart as the Holy Spirit/Spirit of Jesus Christ/Spirit of the Lord/Holy Ghost. He is Christ in you the hope of glory.

2. Baptism in the Spirit is an immersion/overwhelming/saturation/empowerment experience in the Spirit subsequent to salvation

At salvation, the Holy Spirit comes in and takes over and transforms the individual. This is living water within according to John 4 and drinking from the well of salvation according to Isaiah 12. The HGB (Holy Ghost Baptism) is rivers of living water flowing out according to John 7:37-39.

At salvation the Holy Spirit comes in and is like a pilot light (for you who are old enough to remember that term). At HGB the pilot light becomes a flame, energizing, anointing, and releasing gifts in us.

John chapter 20 was a maternity ward. Acts chapter 2 was a bapsitmal tank.

It has been described this way.
Imagine an empty water glass and a pitcher full of water on a table.
1. Lift the pitcher and fill the glass. Set the pitcher back on the table. The glass is full of water. This represents salvation/regeneration.
2. Pick up the glass full of water, and gently lower it into the pitcher of water until it is sitting on its bottom in the pitcher. Now the glass is not only filled with water, it is also submerged/immersed/saturated in the water. This represents the Holy Ghost baptism.

TV ... Sam has explained this to me before ... it's so clear.

[Sam]

Here is a group with PCI leanings.
http://www.interma.net

The I.M.A. has been around for quite a while. If I remember correctly, Bro. Kidson was part of the formation of that organization. He was a respected pioneer in the Pentecostal movement. In Bro. Ewart's book, The Phenomenon of Pentecost, he spoke highly of Bro. Kidson and included a picture of him. I'm not sure if current editionsstill of that book mention Bro. Kidson or if the UPC has "sanitized" it to remove him from it.

[Sam]

Here is a group with PCI leanings.
http://www.interma.net

I am not affiliated with the I.M.A. but I do receive their newsletter.
But I guess that doesn't surprise the folks here who are familiar with me.

[Felicity]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and state that it will probably "shake out" that the PCI'ers will have less disagreement than the PAJC'ers.This statement has caught my attention and got me thinking. I'm not sure if I agree or not.

Want to explain what you mean here bro? How and why would there be less disagreement? Just want to hear your thinking on this.

[SDG]

I would venture to guess that on AFF folks with "PCI Beliefs" concerning salvation differ as much as the Oneness understanding differs from Apostolic to Apostolic. I think it would be interesting to see if that is a correct surmising. So would those of you that are what we call PCI in doctrine please explain where you stand in regards to salvation.

Hey Chuck ... I see consensus on this thread among the PCIers... Thou art not a prophet ....

now the PAJCers ... different story all together ... they agree on Acts 2:38 as THE MESSAGE ...but the interpretations abound ....

[Bryan]

My thoughts..

John 3:3-5
"...Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

PCI believes that you are born again at repentance, is that correct?
I always thought this passage of scripture taught that being "born again" is one and the same as being born of water and of the Spirit (baptism and infilling of the Holy Ghost).

[SDG]

My thoughts..



PCI believes that you are born again at repentance, is that correct?
I always thought this passage of scripture taught that being "born again" is one and the same as being born of water and of the Spirit (baptism and infilling of the Holy Ghost).

Any takers on Berk's question???

[ManOfWord]

This statement has caught my attention and got me thinking. I'm not sure if I agree or not.

Want to explain what you mean here bro? How and why would there be less disagreement? Just want to hear your thinking on this.

Hey Chuck ... I see consensus on this thread among the PCIers... Thou art not a prophet ....

now the PAJCers ... different story all together ... they agree on Acts 2:38 as THE MESSAGE ...but the interpretations abound ....

DA's post above pretty much explains what I meant. Some PAJC'ers or more adamant than others.............then you have the "Epleys." :D

[Steve Epley]

Who are the officials aand where is the headquarters???????????? And who are the members????????????????

Number one they wouldn't let most of you guys have a license back then for what you preach and believe.

Preach it Elder OPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPS that's me!:highfive

[MrRight]

Preach it Elder OPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPS that's me!:highfive

Steve is da bomb..................just aks him!

[Steve Epley]

Steve is da bomb..................just aks him!

Mr. Right I am completely and totallly RIGHT on this as if I was from RIGHTSVILLE!!!!!!!!:highfive

I am also RIGHT saying they are WRONG!!!!!!!!:highfive

[Sherri]

My thoughts..



PCI believes that you are born again at repentance, is that correct?
I always thought this passage of scripture taught that being "born again" is one and the same as being born of water and of the Spirit (baptism and infilling of the Holy Ghost).

You must be born of the water and the Spirit. Born of the water is natural physical birth; born of the Spirit is when you are born into the kingdom of God (redeemed).

[Bryan]

You must be born of the water and the Spirit. Born of the water is natural physical birth; born of the Spirit is when you are born into the kingdom of God (redeemed).if born of water is the natural physical birth, then what was the point of mentioning it??

[SDG]

if born of water is the natural physical birth, then what was the point of mentioning it??

Perhaps a parallel that Jesus was making between the physical and the spiritual and the earthly and the heavenly.

[Sherri]

Perhaps a parallel that Jesus was making between the physical and the spiritual and the earthly and the heavenly.
Exactly! That you need to be born of the Spirit just as you were born of the natural. That natural birth isn't enough.

[Bryan]

Perhaps a parallel that Jesus was making between the physical and the spiritual and the earthly and the heavenly.hmm..

[Sam]

if born of water is the natural physical birth, then what was the point of mentioning it??

Because Nicodemus had asked how a man could be born when he was old --could he reenter the womb and be born a second time? Jesus explained that there are two separate births. The first birth is a natural birth and affects the natural man. When the water (actually amniotic fluid) is spilled that is the first birth. It affects the flesh part of us. That which is born of the flesh is flesh. The second birth is by the Spirit and affects the spirit man within. That which is born of (God's) Spirit is (our human) spirit.

[Bryan]

Because Nicodemus had asked how a man could be born when he was old --could he reenter the womb and be born a second time? Jesus explained that there are two separate births. The first birth is a natural birth and affects the natural man. When the water (actually amniotic fluid) is spilled that is the first birth. It affects the flesh part of us. That which is born of the flesh is flesh. The second birth is by the Spirit and affects the spirit man within. That which is born of (God's) Spirit is (our human) spirit.that makes a bit of sense to this PAJC guy.. lol

[Sherri]

Because Nicodemus had asked how a man could be born when he was old --could he reenter the womb and be born a second time? Jesus explained that there are two separate births. The first birth is a natural birth and affects the natural man. When the water (actually amniotic fluid) is spilled that is the first birth. It affects the flesh part of us. That which is born of the flesh is flesh. The second birth is by the Spirit and affects the spirit man within. That which is born of (God's) Spirit is (our human) spirit.
Well, that's what I was wanting to say, but you just said it SO much better.:ty

[ManOfWord]

Because Nicodemus had asked how a man could be born when he was old --could he reenter the womb and be born a second time? Jesus explained that there are two separate births. The first birth is a natural birth and affects the natural man. When the water (actually amniotic fluid) is spilled that is the first birth. It affects the flesh part of us. That which is born of the flesh is flesh. The second birth is by the Spirit and affects the spirit man within. That which is born of (God's) Spirit is (our human) spirit.

Sam, you are of great value to this forum. Please hang around more often!!!!

(agreeing with me has nothing to do with it) :D

[SDG]

Sam, you are of great value to this forum. Please hang around more often!!!!

(agreeing with me has nothing to do with it) :D

Sam needs to be teaching at a bible school ... or giving seminars ... for real.

I'm thinking of becoming Sam groupie.

[ManOfWord]

Sam needs to be teaching at a bible school ... or giving seminars ... for real.

I'm thinking of becoming Sam groupie.

Sam is a very balanced guy. He always has something of value, if not humor to add!

[Steve Epley]

Because Nicodemus had asked how a man could be born when he was old --could he reenter the womb and be born a second time? Jesus explained that there are two separate births. The first birth is a natural birth and affects the natural man. When the water (actually amniotic fluid) is spilled that is the first birth. It affects the flesh part of us. That which is born of the flesh is flesh. The second birth is by the Spirit and affects the spirit man within. That which is born of (God's) Spirit is (our human) spirit.

Right when answering the question about being born AGAIN Jesus said now you have to be born naturally first like that makes a lot of sense. If they hadn't been born naturally they question would not have been asked in the first place HOWEVER the question was about being born AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Except a man be born naturally!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good grief!
The subject is the new birth being born again. Can a man enter the second time into his mother's womb???????????? Except ye be born of water and of the Spirit that is the born again not the first birth. The foolishness folks go to in order to dismiss truth.:drawguns

[SDG]

Right when answering the question about being born AGAIN Jesus said now you have to be born naturally first like that makes a lot of sense. If they hadn't been born naturally they question would not have been asked in the first place HOWEVER the question was about being born AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Except a man be born naturally!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good grief!
The subject is the new birth being born again. Can a man enter the second time into his mother's womb???????????? Except ye be born of water and of the Spirit that is the born again not the first birth. The foolishness folks go to in order to dismiss truth.:drawguns

Elder Epley you need you're own show ... preferably on TV. :tease

[Sam]

Sam needs to be teaching at a bible school ... or giving seminars ... for real.

I'm thinking of becoming Sam groupie.

Have your people contact my people.
We may be able to visit your area.
We require:
--lease of a commercial type aircraft for our trip
--limousine transportation from airport to motel
--a suite of first class motel rooms for our entourage
--catered meals
--limousine transportation from motel to meeting site
--down payment of $750,000 for each anticipated day of meetings
--broadcast of meetings on at least one local network affiliated tv station
--any and all offerings received during meetings deposited to my personal checking account on a daily basis
--video and audio tape of all services available for sale
--funds from video and audio tapes transferred at the end of each business day to my personal checking account
--personal introduction by local city mayor and UPC distr. supt. for each service
--clergy and members of each local church to be ordered to attend each meeting by hierarchy of respective organization/denomination
--other details to be worked out and made part of the contract at least 6 months before meeting

[SDG]

Have your people contact my people.
We may be able to visit your area.
We require:
--lease of a commercial type aircraft for our trip
--limousine transportation from airport to motel
--a suite of first class motel rooms for our entourage
--catered meals
--limousine transportation from motel to meeting site
--down payment of $750,000 for each anticipated day of meetings
--broadcast of meetings on at least one local network affiliated tv station
--any and all offerings received during meetings deposited to my personal checking account on a daily basis
--video and audio tape of all services available for sale
--funds from video and audio tapes transferred at the end of each business day to my personal checking account
--personal introduction by local city mayor and UPC distr. supt. for each service
--clergy and members of each local church to be ordered to attend each meeting by hierarchy of respective organization/denomination
--other details to be worked out and made part of the contract at least 6 months before meeting

No new toilet seats ...in your suite???

[ManOfWord]

Have your people contact my people.
We may be able to visit your area.
We require:
--lease of a commercial type aircraft for our trip
--limousine transportation from airport to motel
--a suite of first class motel rooms for our entourage
--catered meals
--limousine transportation from motel to meeting site
--down payment of $750,000 for each anticipated day of meetings
--broadcast of meetings on at least one local network affiliated tv station
--any and all offerings received during meetings deposited to my personal checking account on a daily basis
--video and audio tape of all services available for sale
--funds from video and audio tapes transferred at the end of each business day to my personal checking account
--personal introduction by local city mayor and UPC distr. supt. for each service
--clergy and members of each local church to be ordered to attend each meeting by hierarchy of respective organization/denomination
--other details to be worked out and made part of the contract at least 6 months before meeting


Hey, that's the same "contract" I was given by Rev. _________________

[Sam]

Eld. Epley,
I like the picture in the hat.
Wasn't that from when you visited Coonskinner a while back?
I noticed that you had some pictures in the January-April issue of The Apostolic Standard including a front row seat in the group picture for the August 2006 General Assembly and your name listed in the General Council of Elders.

[Sam]

No new toilet seats ...in your suite???

They don't have to be new, as long as they are clean, padded, and heated.

[Steve Epley]

Eld. Epley,
I like the picture in the hat.
Wasn't that from when you visited Coonskinner a while back?
I noticed that you had some pictures in the January-April issue of The Apostolic Standard including a front row seat in the group picture for the August 2006 General Assembly and your name listed in the General Council of Elders.

That's ole ugly me.

[ManOfWord]

They don't have to be new, as long as they are clean, padded, and heated.

No bidet? :killinme

[SDG]

Bump ...because We Rock!!!

[Sherri]

Hey, that's the same "contract" I was given by Rev. _________________
We got one of these once from someone who was basically a nobody, but wanted to be a somebody, and we imediately cancelled his meetings. I hate this kind of stuff!! I know some people have agents and the agents send these out to avoid really bad situations, but it gets ridiculous.

[Scott Hutchinson]

Hey I'll come hold ya a meeting I don't have any contracts.