Is Acts 2:38 your god?

[SDG]

In a captivating message at the 2007 BOTT, Jeff Arnold, a solid PAJCer, and a favorite preacher of mine, remarked that many within the movement have not moved beyond Acts 2:38 and Knowing the book.

He went as far to exhort the listeners that many in the movement don't really KNOW GOD.

One interesting quote from the message and I paraphrase is .....

"You are married to doctrine and have divorced youself from Deity."

What say ye of this message? I will post audio of the message later.

Have some made Acts 2:38 and standards THE MESSAGE ... while Jesus is sitting on the outside looking in????


Just asking a question ....

[Ron]

In a captivating message at the 2007 BOTT, Jeff Arnold, a solid PAJCer, and a favorite preacher of mine, remarked that many within the movement have not moved beyond Acts 2:38 and Knowing the book.

He went as far to exhort the listeners that many in the movement don't really KNOW GOD.

One interesting quote from the message and I paraphrase is .....

"You are married to doctrine and have divorced youself from Deity."

What say ye of this message? I will post audio of the message later.

Have some made Acts 2:38 and standards THE MESSAGE ... while Jesus is sitting on the outside looking in????


Just asking a question ....

That is important questions, and something I have been thinking along the same lines recently.

Whether we know God or not, doesn't negate the importance or validity of the message though!


JMHO Though.

[SDG]

Can "having truth" become a graven image ... by which God and all others are measured?

[Nahum]

Your methodology is clear here:

1. A de-emphasis on what the Word says.
2. A disdain for what the Word says.
3. An emphasis on new "revelation" over what the Word says.

There is no way in hades Jeff Arnold meant that as a slam against people who believe Acts 2:38.

[SDG]

Your methodology is clear here:

1. A de-emphasis on what the Word says.
2. A disdain for what the Word says.
3. An emphasis on new "revelation" over what the Word says.

There is no way in hades Jeff Arnold meant that as a slam against people who believe Acts 2:38.

PP .... your accusations are false ... I am simply highlighting how some are presenting the God-breathed inerrant and holy Acts 2:38 message.

If you don't like what you read ... don't accept it ... but to accuse me of somehow disdaining the Word or having some type of new revelation that know one else has ... is a weak attempt to marginalize what is happening in the Oneness movement and its PCI history ... which is still trying to be SANITIZED apparently.

I expect an apology.

[Nahum]

PP .... your accusations are false ... I am simply highlighting how some are presenting the God-breathed inerrant and holy Acts 2:38 message.

If you don't like what you read ... don't accept it ... but to accuse me of somehow disdaining the Word or having some type of new revelation that know one else has ... is a weak attempt to marginalize what is happening in the Oneness movement and its PCI history ... which is still trying to be SANITIZED.

I expect an apology.

I'm horribly sorry, Daniel.

Why continue to attack those you say you agree with? The spirit of your post is that we elevate Acts 2:38 above God. That is wrong, and insidious. You are not-so-subtly accusing us of idol worship. The reason we love Acts 2:38 so much is because it tells us how to get right with God.

What's wrong with loving that message?

[SDG]

Your methodology is even clearer ... PP.

I have simply posed questions in this thread ...

and you make divisive assertions ... what gives, Bro????

Then Peter suggested unto them, repent -although it is completely unnecessary, be baptized however you want to - in order to keep an out-dated tradition alive, and eventually God may baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

A powerless message from a powerless church.

You're sounding like them.

[COOPER]

PP .... your accusations are false ... I am simply highlighting how some are presenting the God-breathed inerrant and holy Acts 2:38 message.

If you don't like what you read ... don't accept it ... but to accuse me of somehow disdaining the Word or having some type of new revelation that know one else has ... is a weak attempt to marginalize what is happening in the Oneness movement and its PCI history ... which is still trying to be SANITIZED.

I expect an apology.
Very interesting what Jeff Arnold said.
To apply such strong holds on standards and manuals will cause the man of God to tune out the voice of God.:
Traditions and those that govern such and the "don't touch my:drawguns rules" attitudes, will cause the man of God to loose sight of God.
Man has built the gaurd rails so far away from the edge of the cliff, that it is hard to find the path. The narrow path has become a razors edge.

[Felicity]

You see this is what always happens when you get into this "us against you" mentality. It's really just too bad. :depressed

Just preach what the apostles did. Put the emphasis where they did. You'll get the same results! :highfive

[Fireside]

This accusation would have applied to Peter, I guess, and his compatriots in Jerusalem.

Then went the captain with the officers, and brought them without violence: for they feared the people, lest they should have been stoned.


Act 5:27 And when they had brought them, they set [them] before the council: and the high priest asked them,


Act 5:28 Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us.

There are three things the devil hates; the Doctrine, the Name, and the Blood.

These were the things that infuriated the high priest and his minions.

I am reading posts from folks who want to de-emphasize the doctrine, explain why the Name isn't necessary, and confuse the message of the Blood.

This is an old and time honored strategy.

Congratulations. :)

[SDG]

Very interesting what Jeff Arnold said.
To apply such strong holds on standards and manuals will cause the man of God to tune out the voice of God.:
Traditions and those that govern such and the "don't touch my:drawguns rules" attitudes, will cause the man of God to loose sight of God.
Man has built the gaurd rails so far away from the edge of the cliff, that it is hard to find the path. The narrow path has become a razors edge.

JA also quipped that the manual now weighs some inordinate weight ... I can't agree with you more Coop.

[Nahum]

Your methodology is even clearer ... PP.

I have simply posed questions in this thread ...

and you make divisive assertions ... what gives, Bro????

You're sounding like them.

Why, Dear Daniel, did you "simply pose questions" of such an insulting nature?
To suggest that Acts 2:38 believers and adherents may be idolaters?

Who is divisive?

Your camp brought this whole issue to the fore and won't let it go. If you don't want divisiveness, quit talking about things you know we vehemently disagree on.

[SDG]

This accusation would have applied to Peter, I guess, and his compatriots in Jerusalem.

Then went the captain with the officers, and brought them without violence: for they feared the people, lest they should have been stoned.




There are three things the devil hates; the Doctrine, the Name, and the Blood.

These were the things that infuriated the high priest and his minions.

I am reading posts from folks who want to de-emphasize the doctrine, explain why the Name isn't necessary, and confuse the message of the Blood.

This is an old and time honored strategy.

Congratulations. :)

I see questions ... no accusations CS ... but you can spin the DE-EMPHASIS record all day ....

[Felicity]

Oops........

I'm in the wrong thread. LOL! Thot I was in the same one I've been posting in. :lol

[SDG]

Why, Dear Daniel, did you "simply pose questions" of such an insulting nature?
To suggest that Acts 2:38 believers and adherents may be idolaters?

Who is divisive?

Your camp brought this whole issue to the fore and won't let it go. If you don't want divisiveness, quit talking about things you know we vehemently disagree on.

This coming from a someone who accused many within the movement of spiritual abortion ... we're here to opine not censor PP.

[SDG]

Why, Dear Daniel, did you "simply pose questions" of such an insulting nature?
To suggest that Acts 2:38 believers and adherents may be idolaters?

Who is divisive?

Your camp brought this whole issue to the fore and won't let it go. If you don't want divisiveness, quit talking about things you know we vehemently disagree on.

Just for the record Ron thought they were legitimate questions ....:ty

[COOPER]

This accusation would have applied to Peter, I guess, and his compatriots in Jerusalem.

Then went the captain with the officers, and brought them without violence: for they feared the people, lest they should have been stoned.




There are three things the devil hates; the Doctrine, the Name, and the Blood.

These were the things that infuriated the high priest and his minions.

I am reading posts from folks who want to de-emphasize the doctrine, explain why the Name isn't necessary, and confuse the message of the Blood.This is an old and time honored strategy.:dunno

Congratulations. :)
I would never.:dunno

[LadyChocolate]

so. anyone want some pizza?

[COOPER]

so. anyone want some pizza?
Meat lovers- pan, please.

[LadyChocolate]

meat lovers, pan , please.

That's the only way to have it...........and anyone who disagrees with me doesn't believe in acts 2:38! :killinme

[Nahum]

This coming from a someone who accused many within the movement of spiritual abortion ... we're here to opine not censor PP.

I accused a small, but vocal minority, and I stand by that statement. What does that have to do with this discussion?

[COOPER]

I accused a small, but vocal minority, and I stand by that statement. What does that have to do with this discussion?
I say lets go down to the river and fish!

[SDG]

I accused a small, but vocal minority, and I stand by that statement. What does that have to do with this discussion?

Everything.

[LaVonne]

In a captivating message at the 2007 BOTT, Jeff Arnold, a solid PAJCer, and a favorite preacher of mine, remarked that many within the movement have not moved beyond Acts 2:38 and Knowing the book.

He went as far to exhort the listeners that many in the movement don't really KNOW GOD.

One interesting quote from the message and I paraphrase is .....

"You are married to doctrine and have divorced youself from Deity."

What say ye of this message? I will post audio of the message later.

Have some made Acts 2:38 and standards THE MESSAGE ... while Jesus is sitting on the outside looking in????


Just asking a question ....

I've heard one of our preachers say much of the same thing....He said the Baptists are better Christians than some of us, because we focus too much on ACTS 2:28 and don't preach/teach enough on Christian living.

[Scott Hutchinson]

ACTS 2:38 is not the truth,it is a truth that points us to the Great Fountain Of Truth,The Lord Jesus Christ.

[SDG]

I've heard one of our preachers say much of the same thing....He said the Baptists are better Christians than some of us, because we focus too much on ACTS 2:28 and don't preach/teach enough on Christian living.

My point exactly. Amen. Some real preaching!!!!

[Fireside]

My point exactly. Amen. Some real preaching!!!!

Right.

Anything that heaps institutional guilt on Apostolic people and causes them to feel inferior is awesome.

[SDG]

No institutional guilt ... CS ... Pointing out a problem that is pervasive ... shoud we ignore it? ... not talk about ?... sweep it under a rug ?... because it would be deemed as blasphemy .....

Every church and pastor is different but .... many solid Apostolics are seeing red flags, CS.

My dad preached Acts 2:38 ... but his focus was relationship ... WHILE some would OTHERS would rather beat up folks with THE MESSAGE and point out how everyone else has it wrong....

[Fireside]

No institutional guilt ... CS ... Pointing out a problem that is pervasive ... shoud we ignore it ... not talk about ... sweep under a rug ... because it would be deemed as blasphemy .....

Every church and pastor is different but .... many solid Apostolics are seeing red flags, CS.

My dad preached Acts 2:38 ... but his focus was relationship ... WHILE some would OTHERS would rather beat up folks with THE MESSAGE and point out how everyone else has it wrong....

I am glad there are so many who have been to enough of the thousands of APostolic churches in this country to be able to speak authoritatively about how pervasive the lack of teaching relationship is among us.

Among the men I fellowship, it is taught extensively.

[SDG]

I am glad there are so many who have been to enough of the thousands of APostolic churches in this country to be able to speak authoritatively about how pervasive the lack of teaching relationship is among us.

Among the men I fellowship, it is taught extensively.

We've got eyes and ears ... and can process for ourselves ... and can opine.

[RevDWW]

So Dan, is your real question, "are there those that just milk feed their Saint's and never get into the meat?".

Acts 2:38 is the new birth message. But we should not stop there, if we want to grow in Grace.

[AGAPE]

Anyone ever notice that the folks who post this garbage are the same ones that would jump to the defense of homosexuals and abortionist, and fornicators and adulterors, etc

[AGAPE]

I've heard one of our preachers say much of the same thing....He said the Baptists are better Christians than some of us, because we focus too much on ACTS 2:28 and don't preach/teach enough on Christian living.

Impossible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Read Galatians 3:27

[RevDWW]

Anyone ever notice that the folks who post this garbage are the same ones that would jump to the defense of homosexuals and abortionist, and fornicators and adulterors, etc

I detect a bad attitude coming from somone who's screen name is suppose to mean Charity.

The only defense for those you named is the Gospel message. But you have to love them to the alter not hate them!

[SDG]

Anyone ever notice that the folks who post this garbage are the same ones that would jump to the defense of homosexuals and abortionist, and fornicators and adulterors, etc

More extremism ... grow in Agape.

[SDG]

So Dan, is your real question, "are there those that just milk feed their Saint's and never get into the meat?".

Acts 2:38 is the new birth message. But we should not stop there, if we want to grow in Grace.

Yes. DW. and I think it's more than that ... can we be so in love with having TRUTH we forget how to extend grace and love to others?

[Steve Epley]

I have not had an opportunity to read this but my answer is YES!

Acts 2:38 is MY God have ye NOT read?

In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the WORD WAS GOD! Acts 2:38 is the WORD correct?
There are Three that bear record in Heaven the Father-WORD-the Holy Ghost and these three are ONE!!!!!!!! The WORD includes Acts 2:38 right?

[SDG]

I have not had an opportunity to read this but my answer is YES!

Acts 2:38 is MY God have ye NOT read?

In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the WORD WAS GOD! Acts 2:38 is the WORD correct?
There are Three that bear record in Heaven the Father-WORD-the Holy Ghost and these three are ONE!!!!!!!! The WORD includes Acts 2:38 right?

Sure Elder Epley ... you've got it ... and we don't.

[RevDWW]

Yes. DW. and I think it's more than that ... can we be so in love with having TRUTH we forget how to extend grace?

Dan,
The Truth is LOVE! The Truth is HOLY! The Truth is Jesus. He is the encapsulation of God's Love and Truth in the flesh.

Read the Love Chapter in Cor. That's Jesus!

[Steve Epley]

Sure Epley ... you've got it ... and we don't.

Your hostility toward Peter's message the one Jesus gave the keys to is noted. Why do you hate the message so??????????????????


Like a child who hates his father and mother.

Isn't there a verse about cursing your father and mother???????????

You hate and despise Peter's inpired message but millions have heard it and loved it and it changed their lifes and it is still being preachers around the world.

Sir your little squirt gun you have pointed at the Sun will never put the light out!

[SDG]

Dan,
The Truth is LOVE! The Truth is HOLY! The Truth is Jesus. He is the encapsulation of God's Love and Truth in the flesh.

Read the Love Chapter in Cor. That's Jesus!

Agreed, and how I yearn to know that Truth ... Love ... in the power of His resurrection ... and the fellowship of His suffering.

[COOPER]

ACTS 2:38 is not the truth,it is a truth that points us to the Great Fountain Of Truth,The Lord Jesus Christ.
Ah yes, for he is the way, the truth , the life.

[Steve Epley]

Ah yes, for he is the way, the truth , the life.

And He is the WORD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The WORD made flesh!!!!!!!

Thy WORD is Truth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Acts 2:38 is the WORD which is THE Truth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:bliss :bliss

[MrsMcD]

Yes. DW. and I think it's more than that ... can we be so in love with having TRUTH we forget how to extend grace and love to others?

Some people can't/won't extend grace and love to christians. How can they extend grace and love to others that do not have the truth?

[COOPER]

Some people can't/won't extend grace and love to Christians. How can they extend grace and love to others that do not have the truth?

It is easier to fight with the ones you love than a stranger.

[Steve Epley]

HERE we are contending there we are converting I hope same message different approach. I do not dislike or hate anyone on this forum. I hate what they say sometimes but never them. Postions not persons are in the sword fight. Although I confess sometimes it is hard to distinquish the two.:highfive

[Praxeas]

Can "having truth" become a graven image ... by which God and all others are measured?
Yes...look at the Jews. They were arrogant about where they came from. They said "Look, Abraham is our father".....they said "Look Moses gave US the law"....they said "Look, we are doctors and scribes, don't tell US about the law"

[MrsMcD]

It is easier to fight with the ones you love than a stranger.

Unfortunately, you are right.

[Praxeas]

I'm horribly sorry, Daniel.

Why continue to attack those you say you agree with? The spirit of your post is that we elevate Acts 2:38 above God. That is wrong, and insidious. You are not-so-subtly accusing us of idol worship. The reason we love Acts 2:38 so much is because it tells us how to get right with God.

What's wrong with loving that message?
That's not what I got out of it. It seems he was saying SOME Of us do and that was infact what Jeff Arnold said and I agree For some folks all they know is Acts 2:38 and Standards and nothing more when there is so much more. He was not saying it's wrong to love Acts 2:38, but there is so much more in the word beyond Acts 2:38

Consider what Hebrews says
Heb 6:1 Therefore, having left the discourse of the beginning of Christ, let us go on to full growth, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Heb 6:2 of the baptisms, of doctrine, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

Heb 6:3 And this we will do, if God permits.

[COOPER]

Unfortunately, you are right.
I am guilty...............:sad

[Praxeas]

Very interesting what Jeff Arnold said.
To apply such strong holds on standards and manuals will cause the man of God to tune out the voice of God.:
Traditions and those that govern such and the "don't touch my:drawguns rules" attitudes, will cause the man of God to loose sight of God.
Man has built the gaurd rails so far away from the edge of the cliff, that it is hard to find the path. The narrow path has become a razors edge.
Which is probably why a lot of the Pharisees did not accept Jesus..."

Joh 5:37 And He sending Me, the Father Himself, has borne witness of Me. Neither have you heard His voice at any time nor seen His shape.

Joh 5:38 And you do not have His Word abiding in you, for you do not believe Him whom He has sent.

Joh 5:39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life. And they are the ones witnessing of Me,

[SDG]

HERE we are contending there we are converting I hope same message different approach. I do not dislike or hate anyone on this forum. I hate what they say sometimes but never them. Postions not persons are in the sword fight. Although I confess sometimes it is hard to distinquish the two.:highfive

Amen my good brother.

[MrsMcD]

I am guilty...............:sad

We are all guilty. :-(

[ManOfWord]

Some might remember that one of the threads I started on NFCF was entitled, "Has Ac. 2:38 been exalted higher than Jesus Christ"


My thread was not started to cast stones but to start discussion and cause folks to think. It was a good thread and went on for quite a while. It also had some very good discussions as well.

It is my opinion that in some circles, Ac. 2:38 has been exalted above Jesus Christ, due to the fact that, again, in some circles the "formula" for salvation is more important than the "person" of salvation. I'm not painting with a broad brush, but when the ONLY or MAIN indentifier of a child of God is three "check boxes" if you will, then I think the accusation sticks.

Mind you now, I am not talking about all in apostolic circles or all apostolic churches. But the same thing happened in Jesus' day. When the "person" of salvation came, they were quite content to dwell in their doctrine, thinking that it was sufficient of itself to save them.

Doctrinal obedience is NEVER sufficient. It is important, indeed, but sufficient in and of itself......NEVER!!!

[SDG]

I am guilty...............:sad

Likewise.

[Praxeas]

Some might remember that one of the threads I started on NFCF was entitled, "Has Ac. 2:38 been exalted higher than Jesus Christ"


My thread was not started to cast stones but to start discussion and cause folks to think. It was a good thread and went on for quite a while. It also had some very good discussions as well.

It is my opinion that in some circles, Ac. 2:38 has been exalted above Jesus Christ, due to the fact that, again, in some circles the "formula" for salvation is more important than the "person" of salvation. I'm not painting with a broad brush, but when the ONLY or MAIN indentifier of a child of God is three "check boxes" if you will, then I think the accusation sticks.

Mind you now, I am not talking about all in apostolic circles or all apostolic churches. But the same thing happened in Jesus' day. When the "person" of salvation came, there were quite content to dwell in their doctrine, thinking that it was sufficient of itself to save them.

Doctrinal obedience is NEVER sufficient. It is important, indeed, but sufficient in and of itself......NEVER!!!
Yeah and what bothers me is that people are reading what this man posted and reading something entirely different from what I read....they read "Acts 2:38 baaaaaaad, those that preach it are baaaaaaad" and that is not what I read in Dan's post anymore than they would have read it in yours.

[SDG]

Yeah and what bothers me is that people are reading what this man posted and reading something entirely different from what I read....they read "Acts 2:38 baaaaaaad, those that preach it are baaaaaaad" and that is not what I read in Dan's post anymore than they would have read it in yours.

Appreciate it, Praxeas.

[MrsMcD]

Some might remember that one of the threads I started on NFCF was entitled, "Has Ac. 2:38 been exalted higher than Jesus Christ"


My thread was not started to cast stones but to start discussion and cause folks to think. It was a good thread and went on for quite a while. It also had some very good discussions as well.

It is my opinion that in some circles, Ac. 2:38 has been exalted above Jesus Christ, due to the fact that, again, in some circles the "formula" for salvation is more important than the "person" of salvation. I'm not painting with a broad brush, but when the ONLY or MAIN indentifier of a child of God is three "check boxes" if you will, then I think the accusation sticks.

Mind you now, I am not talking about all in apostolic circles or all apostolic churches. But the same thing happened in Jesus' day. When the "person" of salvation came, there were quite content to dwell in their doctrine, thinking that it was sufficient of itself to save them.

Doctrinal obedience is NEVER sufficient. It is important, indeed, but sufficient in and of itself......NEVER!!!

I remember the thread and I agree.

[Michael The Disciple]

I believe in Acts 2:38 and love it. But I have certainly noticed for many years that many seem to think its the only thing that is essential. Look at the doctrinal discussions on Oneness forums. No matter what the topic it USUALLY ends up saying as long as we believe in Acts 2:38 we are all Apostolic.

There is nothing at all wrong with doctrine. True doctrine that is. It will lead you the right way even to Jesus Christ himself.

But for doctrine (word of God) to do its work it must be OBEYED. Doctrine that is KNOWN and not obeyed will make us educated sinners. We need the WHOLE COUNSEL of God. We then need to teach the WHOLE COUNSEL of God to all who will listen.

Acts 2:38 will get us into Christ but it takes the WHOLE COUNSEL of God to get us into the Heavenly Kingdom.

[Steve Epley]

Some might remember that one of the threads I started on NFCF was entitled, "Has Ac. 2:38 been exalted higher than Jesus Christ"


My thread was not started to cast stones but to start discussion and cause folks to think. It was a good thread and went on for quite a while. It also had some very good discussions as well.

It is my opinion that in some circles, Ac. 2:38 has been exalted above Jesus Christ, due to the fact that, again, in some circles the "formula" for salvation is more important than the "person" of salvation. I'm not painting with a broad brush, but when the ONLY or MAIN indentifier of a child of God is three "check boxes" if you will, then I think the accusation sticks.

Mind you now, I am not talking about all in apostolic circles or all apostolic churches. But the same thing happened in Jesus' day. When the "person" of salvation came, there were quite content to dwell in their doctrine, thinking that it was sufficient of itself to save them.

Doctrinal obedience is NEVER sufficient. It is important, indeed, but sufficient in and of itself......NEVER!!!

I understand what you are saying but in the name of this thread it appears hostile towar what is written. If you despise the writing you despise the Author who wrote them. In balanced churches which I have been blessed to be around my entire life Acts 2:38 is not like a toy or hobby horse where someone pulls it out and everyone jumps. But the the word of God is preached the person and plan of God is exalted and saints are blessed and edified. However Acts 2:38 is preached to the lost as God's ONLY message that saves and we are not offended. But it seems Acts 2:38 is offensive to some here. I hope NONE of the blood bought-Spirit inspired-Word is offensive to me.

[Praxeas]

For what it's worth Dan. I think some here read some of your other posts and assume every thing you post is going to be negative about the UPC in general and are already on the defensive to begin with

[SDG]

For what it's worth Dan. I think some here read some of your other posts and assume every thing you post is going to be negative about the UPC in general and are already on the defensive to begin with

I accept your assessment ... everything seems absolute and perhaps hyperbole. Will examine.

[Steve Epley]

I believe in Acts 2:38 and love it. But I have certainly noticed for many years that many seem to think its the only thing that is essential. Look at the doctrinal discussions on Oneness forums. No matter what the topic it USUALLY ends up saying as long as we believe in Acts 2:38 we are all Apostolic.

There is nothing at all wrong with doctrine. True doctrine that is. It will lead you the right way even to Jesus Christ himself.

But for doctrine (word of God) to do its work it must be OBEYED. Doctrine that is KNOWN and not obeyed will make us educated sinners. We need the WHOLE COUNSEL of God. We then need to teach the WHOLE COUNSEL of God to all who will listen.

Acts 2:38 will get us into Christ but it takes the WHOLE COUNSEL of God to get us into the Heavenly Kingdom.


The reason for the hackles getting raised here is it SEEMS that there is a certain hostility to the message that saved us and the only message that will save. So when it is minimized or reduced to a standard like seams in stockings we are offended and will come out of our corners swinging everytime. You can count on it. Some of us has NO-ZERO-NONE-ZILCH-NADA
elasticity when it comes to the Acts 2:38 message. And we do NOT apologize for it. Our zeal might get out of hand but the message is perfect and pure.

[LaVonne]

I believe in Acts 2:38 and love it. But I have certainly noticed for many years that many seem to think its the only thing that is essential. Look at the doctrinal discussions on Oneness forums. No matter what the topic it USUALLY ends up saying as long as we believe in Acts 2:38 we are all Apostolic.

There is nothing at all wrong with doctrine. True doctrine that is. It will lead you the right way even to Jesus Christ himself.

But for doctrine (word of God) to do its work it must be OBEYED. Doctrine that is KNOWN and not obeyed will make us educated sinners. We need the WHOLE COUNSEL of God. We then need to teach the WHOLE COUNSEL of God to all who will listen.

Acts 2:38 will get us into Christ but it takes the WHOLE COUNSEL of God to get us into the Heavenly Kingdom.

This is a great post!!!!!:ty

[LaVonne]

The reason for the hackles getting raised here is it SEEMS that there is a certain hostility to the message that saved us and the only message that will save. So when it is minimized or reduced to a standard like seams in stockings we are offended and will come out of our corners swinging everytime. You can count on it. Some of us has NO-ZERO-NONE-ZILCH-NADA
elasticity when it comes to the Acts 2:38 message. And we do NOT apologize for it. Our zeal might get out of hand but the message is perfect and pure.

I have no problem with this...we will NEVER compromise the ACTS 2:38 message. But there's more to being a Christian afterthis message has been obeyed.

[Steve Epley]

The reason for the hackles getting raised here is it SEEMS that there is a certain hostility to the message that saved us and the only message that will save. So when it is minimized or reduced to a standard like seams in stockings we are offended and will come out of our corners swinging everytime. You can count on it. Some of us has NO-ZERO-NONE-ZILCH-NADA
elasticity when it comes to the Acts 2:38 message. And we do NOT apologize for it. Our zeal might get out of hand but the message is perfect and pure.

I have no problem with this...we will NEVER compromise the ACTS 2:38 message. But there's more to being a Christian afterthis message has been obeyed.

Did anyone say Acts 2:38 is all there is to being a Christian??????????? Not me I certainly have never said that. This is only the birth or beginning NOT the ending.

[SDG]

Did anyone say Acts 2:38 is all there is to being a Christian??????????? Not me I certainly have never said that. This is only the birth or beginning NOT the ending.

It's a bummer when folks misunderstand you, isn't it Elder? :heeheehee

[LaVonne]

Did anyone say Acts 2:38 is all there is to being a Christian??????????? Not me I certainly have never said that. This is only the birth or beginning NOT the ending.
Right you are...but there are those among us who do this very thing. And on top of that they preach so much doom and gloom that there's no joy in this walk with Jesus.

[LaVonne]

It's a bummer when folks misunderstand you, isn't it Elder? :heeheehee

I did not misunderstand Bro. E

[SDG]

Right you are...but there are those among us who do this very thing. And on top of that they preach so much doom and gloom that there's no joy in this walk with Jesus.

Then some of those same folks are insulted and question your HG if you question this attitude ... JMO.

[Neck]

In a captivating message at the 2007 BOTT, Jeff Arnold, a solid PAJCer, and a favorite preacher of mine, remarked that many within the movement have not moved beyond Acts 2:38 and Knowing the book.

He went as far to exhort the listeners that many in the movement don't really KNOW GOD.

One interesting quote from the message and I paraphrase is .....

"You are married to doctrine and have divorced youself from Deity."

What say ye of this message? I will post audio of the message later.

Have some made Acts 2:38 and standards THE MESSAGE ... while Jesus is sitting on the outside looking in????


Just asking a question ....


What I can tell u if you or I posted that as our material. We would be slapped. But if Jeff Arnold preaches it might be heard.

Acts 2:38 is our way to God.

After that God would like to take us on a journey.

However we stay on the square marked Acts 2:38.

[ManOfWord]

Y'all keep having fun and playing nice and enjoying the discusion! :D

Have a funeral showing I must attend with Mrs. MOW.


(B bk l8tr!) :D

[Nahum]

That's not what I got out of it. It seems he was saying SOME Of us do and that was infact what Jeff Arnold said and I agree For some folks all they know is Acts 2:38 and Standards and nothing more when there is so much more. He was not saying it's wrong to love Acts 2:38, but there is so much more in the word beyond Acts 2:38

Consider what Hebrews says
Heb 6:1 Therefore, having left the discourse of the beginning of Christ, let us go on to full growth, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Heb 6:2 of the baptisms, of doctrine, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

Heb 6:3 And this we will do, if God permits.

Praxeas,

I, having read the full body of Daniel's posting in the past few days, completely disagree. We all have agendas, and Daniel's is crystal clear here.
He has every right to believe whatever he wants to - no matter how cloaked, misguided, and wrong it may be.

[Nahum]

BTW, I do agree Acts 2:38 is foundational.
I just don't think I am an idolater for loving that message so much.

[SDG]

Praxeas,

I, having read the full body of Daniel's posting in the past few days, completely disagree. We all have agendas, and Daniel's is crystal clear here.
He has every right to believe whatever he wants to - no matter how cloaked, misguided, and wrong it may be.

PP you're right ... Dan has an agenda and it's your job to uproot it.

PP I respect and love you. We don't have to agree on everything. But to call me out is not cool.

It sounds cliche but let's agree to disagree.

[Steve Epley]

It's a bummer when folks misunderstand you, isn't it Elder? :heeheehee

What have I misunderstood?????????????????? If I have misspoken I will apologize for all to read.

[Steve Epley]

I did not misunderstand Bro. E

Care to explain?

[LaVonne]

Then some of those same folks are insulted and question your HG if you question this attitude ... JMO.

Right.

[LaVonne]

Care to explain?

Explain what? I did not misunderstand you...what's to explain.

Sorry, got a very sick child today and must go care him.

God bless!

[Nahum]

PP you're right ... Dan has an agenda and it's your job to uproot it.

PP I respect and love you. We don't have to agree on everything. But to call me out is not cool.

It sounds cliche but let's agree to disagree.


But to call me an ultracon, and to paint me as rigid and an obstructionist is perfectly okay? I see how this works friend. No problem.

Oh and an idolater as well.

[Steve Epley]

Explain what? I did not misunderstand you...what's to explain.

Sorry, got a very sick child today and must go care him.

God bless!

The YOU think I teach only Acts 2:38 is necessary to be a Christian???? That it is the finish instead of the beginning??????? I am confused I must admit. I doubt if anyone on here believe I think Acts 2:38 is all there is to being saved. I think it will take alot more than that to make it.

[SDG]

But to call me an ultracon, and to paint me as rigid and an obstructionist is perfectly okay? I see how this works friend. No problem.

I know you're not an Ultracon ...PP ... you've made it clear you're liberal on social issues. Just challenging you to think as you have to me ... let's kiss and make up????

[Praxeas]

Praxeas,

I, having read the full body of Daniel's posting in the past few days, completely disagree. We all have agendas, and Daniel's is crystal clear here.
He has every right to believe whatever he wants to - no matter how cloaked, misguided, and wrong it may be.
It's a good topic and question, despite what else he has posted on other threads

[Praxeas]

What have I misunderstood?????????????????? If I have misspoken I will apologize for all to read.
hehe....I think he was saying YOU were misunderstood

[Nahum]

I know you're not an Ultracon ...PP ... you've made it clear you're liberal on social issues. Just challenging you to think as you have to me ... let's kiss and make up????

I guess I must be an ultracon, because I have no intention of kissing you or wearing make up. :bliss

For real reconciliation to take place someone needs to admit they were wrong. I choose you! :tease

[SDG]

Anymore thoughts on those that reify the THE MESSAGE as they interpret it and shape it, Praxeas?

[Nahum]

I know you're not an Ultracon ...PP ... you've made it clear you're liberal on social issues. Just challenging you to think as you have to me ... let's kiss and make up????

And by the way, I am not liberal on social issues. I am increasingly liberal.
Big difference.

[Praxeas]

Anymore thoughts on those that reify the THE MESSAGE as they interpret it and shape it, Praxeas?
Nope :-)

[Praxeas]

And by the way, I am not liberal on social issues. I am increasingly liberal.
Big difference.
Ah! You are a progressive liberal...wow :killinme

[Nahum]

I guess I must be an ultracon, because I have no intention of kissing you or wearing make up. :bliss

For real reconciliation to take place someone needs to admit they were wrong. I choose you! :tease

For Daniel. :killinme

[SDG]

Praxeas ... he's my PET PROJECT.

[Praxeas]

Praxeas ... he's my PET PROJECT.
heh...just as long as you two behave....you all should know I have an itchy trigger finger :drawguns

[SDG]

For Daniel. :killinme

Me wrong ... that's funny.

Two rules PP

1. Dan is never wrong
2. When he is .... see rule #1.

[The Swordsman]

Romans 12:16 - Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.

[Nahum]

Romans 12:16 - Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.

Classic! LOL:heeheehee

[Fireside]

The reason for the hackles getting raised here is it SEEMS that there is a certain hostility to the message that saved us and the only message that will save. So when it is minimized or reduced to a standard like seams in stockings we are offended and will come out of our corners swinging everytime. You can count on it. Some of us has NO-ZERO-NONE-ZILCH-NADA
elasticity when it comes to the Acts 2:38 message. And we do NOT apologize for it. Our zeal might get out of hand but the message is perfect and pure.

I don't mind being Brother Eoley's Amen corner when he gets to preaching it this good!

[LaVonne]

In a captivating message at the 2007 BOTT, Jeff Arnold, a solid PAJCer, and a favorite preacher of mine, remarked that many within the movement have not moved beyond Acts 2:38 and Knowing the book.

He went as far to exhort the listeners that many in the movement don't really KNOW GOD.

One interesting quote from the message and I paraphrase is .....

"You are married to doctrine and have divorced youself from Deity."

What say ye of this message? I will post audio of the message later.

Have some made Acts 2:38 and standards THE MESSAGE ... while Jesus is sitting on the outside looking in????


Just asking a question ....

Bro. Epley,

I was really just responding to this post. I do in no way feel that YOU think Acts 2:38 is all we must do to be saved. I apologize for not making myself more clear. I have no arguement with you...I appreciate your stand!

[Felicity]

Bro. Epley,

I was really just responding to this post. I do in no way feel that YOU think Acts 2:38 is all we must do to be saved. I apologize for not making myself more clear. I have no arguement with you...I appreciate your stand!Carey, I felt you made yourself quite clear and that you made good points! :ty

[LaVonne]

Carey, I felt you made yourself quite clear and that you made good points! :ty

Thank you! I am a bit out of sorts today as our 4 year old was up most the night with stomach flu...so, it's very possible that I'm not making a lot of sense.

[Jekyll]

What I can tell u if you or I posted that as our material. We would be slapped. But if Jeff Arnold preaches it might be heard.

Acts 2:38 is our way to God.

After that God would like to take us on a journey.

However we stay on the square marked Acts 2:38.
No, it's our rock solid answer when false doctrine wants to try to erode a foundation of the church...do not mistake our defense of the Word of God for blindly stumbling around on just one principle...

And to try to discredit a key to salvation by ragging on the UPC for defending it is tired immature babble that has been tried before and is old and transparent...


phssssht pleeeze...

[NLYP]

Acts 2;38 is certainly not my God...but then neither is only half of it!

[Felicity]

Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2: 38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts:38

Yadayadayada ......... whatever. :killinme

[NLYP]

Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2: 38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts 2:38 Acts:38

Yadayadayada ......... whatever. :killinme

Felicity......This can be taken two ways...

#1.....GO ACTS 2:38 - the saving message of God..


or

#2 the saddest most disrespectful post you have ever done.

Which is it??

[Felicity]

I was just being silly and just slightly facetious. That's all. I meant no disrespect and I think the posters here will ALL understand that Dan.

Lighten up. Everything's cool. :)

[RevDWW]

I was just being silly and just slightly facetious. That's all. I meant no disrespect and I think the posters here will ALL understand that Dan.

Lighten up. Everything's cool. :)

I knew you were just cutting to the heart of the posts here. Sorts like a review. Finding the common thread. :killinme :killinme :killinme :killinme

[NLYP]

I was just being silly and just slightly facetious. That's all. I meant no disrespect and I think the posters here will ALL understand that Dan.

Lighten up. Everything's cool. :)

Im fine...just checking!:highfive

[RevDWW]

Does anyone here think sinners should not obey Acts 2:38?















:beatdeadhorse

[Barb]

I knew you were just cutting to the heart of the posts here. Sorts like a review. Finding the common thread. :killinme :killinme :killinme :killinme

There ya go!!:ty

[Felicity]

I knew you were just cutting to the heart of the posts here. Sorts like a review. Finding the common thread. :killinme :killinme :killinme :killinme :heeheehee :heeheehee :heeheehee

[Felicity]

Does anyone here think sinners should not obey Acts 2:38?















:beatdeadhorse:killinme

[J-Roc]

Actually, saved folks obey Acts 2:38!

[RevDWW]

Actually, saved folks obey Acts 2:38!

At what point can any of us really say we are saved?


Ezekiel 18:24 (KJV) 24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

[Praxeas]

Actually, saved folks obey Acts 2:38!
So someone can be saved before repenting?

[mizpeh]

So someone can be saved before repenting?

Where have you been hiding? Check out the thread with over a thousand posts on it!

[Nahum]

At what point can any of us really say we are saved?


Ezekiel 18:24 (KJV) 24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

Good post RevDWW!

I have a slight problem with the word "saved" some times.

Saved from what?

Hell? Sin? Self?

Most people really want to be saved from Hell. The idea of leaving sin and self behind is an entirely different matter.

[J-Roc]

So someone can be saved before repenting?

Was referring to PAJCers step 2 and 3 hurdles to salvation...sorry for not clarifying.

[Felicity]

If I can't know that I am "saved" here and now - today - then I have a weak and ineffective God and an inconsequential salvation.

[Nahum]

If I can't know that I am "saved" here and now - today - then I have a weak and ineffective God and an inconsequential salvation.

Not my point at all.

[J-Roc]

At what point can any of us really say we are saved?


Anyone who thinks like this appears to be living in fear. I choose to fear not concerning my salvation for I am comforted by the LORD.


"But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love." (1 John)



"But fear not thou, O my servant Jacob, and be not dismayed, O Israel: for, behold, I will save thee from afar off, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and be in rest and at ease, and none shall make him afraid." (Jeremiah 46)

"For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father." (Romans 8)

"And I am convinced that nothing can ever separate us from God’s love. Neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither our fears for today nor our worries about tomorrow—not even the powers of hell can separate us from God’s love." (Romans 8)

"For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind." (2 Timothy 1)

[stmatthew]

In a captivating message at the 2007 BOTT, Jeff Arnold, a solid PAJCer, and a favorite preacher of mine, remarked that many within the movement have not moved beyond Acts 2:38 and Knowing the book.

He went as far to exhort the listeners that many in the movement don't really KNOW GOD.

One interesting quote from the message and I paraphrase is .....

"You are married to doctrine and have divorced youself from Deity."

What say ye of this message? I will post audio of the message later.

Have some made Acts 2:38 and standards THE MESSAGE ... while Jesus is sitting on the outside looking in????


Just asking a question ....

Let me address this.

First, Jeff Arnold made a stupid remark when he stated that "Many in the movement do not know God". Does he have statistics on this?? Has he got a line to God where God has told him this? JA is real good at being a "shock jock" type preacher, IMHO.

His statement "You are married to doctrine and have divorced yourself from Deity" is another "Shock Jock" type comment. If examined, this is as ignorant a statement as the first one. The Word, which is exalted even above the name of Jesus, is profitable for DOCTRINE. We only know God by knowing his DOCTRINE.

Paul must have thought DOCTRINE was pretty important when he stated to Timothy:

1Ti 4:13 Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.

and

1Ti 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

or his warning to those that did not want DOCTRINE.

2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;


John sums it up nicely when he says:

2Jo 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
2Jo 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into [your] house, neither bid him God speed:


Lets face the facts that God places a great emphasis upon doctrine, because it is by doctrine that we can know Christ. Evidentially, JA does not have that same emphesis.

[Fireside]

Let me address this.

First, Jeff Arnold made a stupid remark when he stated that "Many in the movement do not know God". Does he have statistics on this?? Has he got a line to God where God has told him this? JA is real good at being a "shock jock" type preacher, IMHO.

His statement "You are married to doctrine and have divorced yourself from Deity" is another "Shock Jock" type comment. If examined, this is as ignorant a statement as the first one. The Word, which is exalted even above the name of Jesus, is profitable for DOCTRINE. We only know God by knowing his DOCTRINE.

Paul must have thought DOCTRINE was pretty important when he stated to Timothy:

1Ti 4:13 Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.

and

1Ti 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

or his warning to those that did not want DOCTRINE.

2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;


John sums it up nicely when he says:

2Jo 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
2Jo 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into [your] house, neither bid him God speed:


Lets face the facts that God places a great emphasis upon doctrine, because it is by doctrine that we can know Christ. Evidentially, JA does not have that same emphesis.

thanks, Matt.

I thought about doing this, but have just about gotten jaded with trying to convince former Apostolics that doctrine matters.

[Felicity]

Not my point at all.Okay. So then you believe that a person can know today ... right now :) ..... that they are ready for heaven and that if they died or the rapture took place they would spend eternity with the Lord???

I ask because I've known people in our apostolic churches who live with no assurance of salvation or heaven even though they're living for God faithfully and consistently. I think this is very very sad and the result of wrong teaching somewhere along the way or else they simply haven't understood what they were taught if they were taught correctly.

[Ronzo]

thanks, Matt.

I thought about doing this, but have just about gotten jaded with trying to convince former Apostolics that doctrine matters.
And some of us are just as 'jaded' trying to convince you that we never said 'doctrine doesn't matter'.

[RevDWW]

Anyone who thinks like this appears to be living in fear. I choose to fear not concerning my salvation for I am comforted by the LORD.


"But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love." (1 John)



"But fear not thou, O my servant Jacob, and be not dismayed, O Israel: for, behold, I will save thee from afar off, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and be in rest and at ease, and none shall make him afraid." (Jeremiah 46)

"For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father." (Romans 8)

"And I am convinced that nothing can ever separate us from God’s love. Neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither our fears for today nor our worries about tomorrow—not even the powers of hell can separate us from God’s love." (Romans 8)

"For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind." (2 Timothy 1)

Your making me afraid :eek: by putting "fear" in red.....:killinme :killinme



My Brother, appearances can be deceiving..........:killinme




Perfect Love comes with muturity and understanding. There was a time I was afraid of my Dad spanking me. That fear helped me act correctly, until I could come to understand the good and loving reasons to act appropriately. As I grew I understood what my Dad was trying to teach me and began to obey out of love and respect rather than fear.

[RevDWW]

Okay. So then you believe that a person can know today ... right now :) ..... that they are ready for heaven and that if they died or the rapture took place they would spend eternity with the Lord???

I ask because I've known people in our apostolic churches who live with no assurance of salvation or heaven even though they're living for God faithfully and consistently. I think this is very very sad and the result of wrong teaching somewhere along the way or else they simply haven't understood what they were taught if they were taught correctly.

Yes we have the assurance of the earnest of our inheritance, but like the prodigal son we can squander it if we so desire.

[Felicity]

Yes we have the assurance of the earnest of our inheritance, but like the prodigal son we can squander it if we so desire.No question that we can forfeit our salvation. Absolutely we can!!!

But do you know with full assurance that if the rapture took place tonight or if you died tonight that you will spend eternity with Christ? If you do - great!

Many don't. Sad. :depressed

[Ronzo]

But do you know with full assurance that if the rapture took place tonight or if you died tonight that you will spend eternity with Christ? If you do - great!

Many don't. Sad. :depressed
You mean our salvation doesn't teeter on the head of a pin?

I can finally live my life without being afraid of getting struck by lightning for making one false move?


:bliss

[Bryan]

No question that we can forfeit our salvation. Absolutely we can!!!

But do you know with full assurance that if the rapture took place tonight or if you died tonight that you will spend eternity with Christ? If you do - great!

Many don't. Sad. :depressedSo many don'ts, people are scared and walk on egg shells. It creates anxiety.

[Nahum]

Okay. So then you believe that a person can know today ... right now :) ..... that they are ready for heaven and that if they died or the rapture took place they would spend eternity with the Lord???

I ask because I've known people in our apostolic churches who live with no assurance of salvation or heaven even though they're living for God faithfully and consistently. I think this is very very sad and the result of wrong teaching somewhere along the way or else they simply haven't understood what they were taught if they were taught correctly.

I do not believe in the false doctrine of unconditional eternal security.
I do not believe you lose the Holy Ghost every time you fail.
I do believe our assurance lies in Jesus Christ, and his Mercy and Power.

[Ronzo]

So many don'ts, people are scared and walk on egg shells. It creates anxiety.
and anxiety creates sickness...

[SDG]

I do not believe in the false doctrine of unconditional eternal security.
I do not believe you lose the Holy Ghost every time you fail.
I do believe our assurance lies in Jesus Christ, and his Mercy and Power.

Now that's solid doctrine PP.

[Ronzo]

I do not believe in the false doctrine of unconditional eternal security.
I do not believe you lose the Holy Ghost every time you fail.
I do believe our assurance lies in Jesus Christ, and his Mercy and Power.
Wow. We agree on something.

[RevDWW]

No question that we can forfeit our salvation. Absolutely we can!!!

But do you know with full assurance that if the rapture took place tonight or if you died tonight that you will spend eternity with Christ? If you do - great!

Many don't. Sad. :depressed

And why don't they? Because they are not taugh or because they are unteachable? Because they still want a bottle instead of a steak? The Holy Ghost is supposed to lead and guide us into all Truth.

[Bryan]

And why don't they? Because they are not taugh or because they are unteachable? Because they still want a bottle instead of a steak? The Holy Ghost is supposed to lead and guide us into all Truth.If it's truth that the preacher doesn't agree with it's not truth. You see, the preacher is right even when he is wrong. :)

[Felicity]

I do not believe in the false doctrine of unconditional eternal security.
I do not believe you lose the Holy Ghost every time you fail.
I do believe our assurance lies in Jesus Christ, and his Mercy and Power.Agreed! I do not believe in unconditional eternal security either! Definitely not!!

Can you proclaim with full assurance here and now that if the rapture takes place 10 min. from now or if something happened and you died that you would be okay as far as your soul is concerned?

Do you teach your people that if they're living an overcoming life they don't have to worry about hell?

[Nahum]

Wow. We agree on something.

I agree with a lot of things you say, but what fun is agreement on a forum?
:killinme :killinme :killinme :killinme :heeheehee :heeheehee :heeheehee

[RevDWW]

Now that's solid doctrine PP.

So then you disgree with it???? :smack :thwak :smack :killinme :killinme



Just kidding. Dan, I like it that we are here clanking to steel together.

Love Yah Man. And how could I not love a guy with such a great first name!

[Nahum]

Agreed! I do not believe in unconditional eternal security either! Definitely not!!

Can you proclaim with full assurance here and now that if the rapture takes place 10 min. from now or if something happened and you died that you would be okay as far as your soul is concerned?

Do you teach your people that if they're living an overcoming life they don't have to worry about hell?

Let's cut through all of the theological crud here.
Here is the essence of salvational assurance..... are you ready??????????

Do you want me to post it?

[Ronzo]

And why don't they? Because they are not taugh or because they are unteachable? Because they still want a bottle instead of a steak? The Holy Ghost is supposed to lead and guide us into all Truth.
Is it always the people's fault bro? How can they listen to the Holy Ghost leading and guiding them when sometimes (notice: SOMETIMES) it's the fault of those teaching who are pumping them full of that junk.

[Steve Epley]

Let me address this.

First, Jeff Arnold made a stupid remark when he stated that "Many in the movement do not know God". Does he have statistics on this?? Has he got a line to God where God has told him this? JA is real good at being a "shock jock" type preacher, IMHO.

His statement "You are married to doctrine and have divorced yourself from Deity" is another "Shock Jock" type comment. If examined, this is as ignorant a statement as the first one. The Word, which is exalted even above the name of Jesus, is profitable for DOCTRINE. We only know God by knowing his DOCTRINE.

Paul must have thought DOCTRINE was pretty important when he stated to Timothy:

1Ti 4:13 Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.

and

1Ti 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

or his warning to those that did not want DOCTRINE.

2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;


John sums it up nicely when he says:

2Jo 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
2Jo 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into [your] house, neither bid him God speed:


Lets face the facts that God places a great emphasis upon doctrine, because it is by doctrine that we can know Christ. Evidentially, JA does not have that same emphesis.

The man knocks the ball out of the park!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:highfive :highfive :highfive :highfive :highfive :highfive

[SDG]

Let's cut through all of the theological crud here.
Here is the essence of salvational assurance..... are you ready??????????

Do you want me to post it?

No ... I think it fits well in the context of this discussion ...

[RevDWW]

If it's truth that the preacher doesn't agree with it's not truth. You see, the preacher is right even when he is wrong. :)

I was wrong once.............I thought I was mistaken but that was incorrect.:killinme :killinme :killinme :killinme

[Nahum]

No ... I think it fits well in the context of this discussion ...

Well, since you DON'T want me to post it I will.

The essence of salvational assurance is this.......









GOD IS NOT STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!







Think about it.

[SDG]

The man knocks the ball out of the park!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:highfive :highfive :highfive :highfive :highfive :highfive

Do you agree w/ this PP???

How do you reconcile this with Hebrews 6, Matt and Elder???

1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

2Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

3And this will we do, if God permit.

9But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

[RevDWW]

Is it always the people's fault bro? How can they listen to the Holy Ghost leading and guiding them when sometimes (notice: SOMETIMES) it's the fault of those teaching who are pumping them full of that junk.
My friend Ronzo, there comes a time in every persons life that we must find out for ourselves. Those that teach error will be held accountable, but those that choose not to seek out their own salvation, WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING, will also be held accountable.

[Felicity]

You mean our salvation doesn't teeter on the head of a pin?

I can finally live my life without being afraid of getting struck by lightning for making one false move?


:blissLOL! Well it's great to know and understand this but there are many people sitting in pews who don't.

We can teach people the carefulness with which they need to live their lives and the proper attention they need to pay to HOW they live in regard to a lot of things but I fear that too often that is emphasized to the point where many feel they can never measure up, don't measure up and so they have no real assurance of salvation.

We need balanced teaching in this regard.

[Fireside]

Wow. We agree on something.

I have always believed, preached, and taught the same thing as PP posted.

[J-Roc]

Let me address this.

First, Jeff Arnold made a stupid remark when he stated that...


...If examined, this is as ignorant a statement as the first one.


I thought these words are no-nos here...I used it and was spanked. :ranting :heeheehee

[Felicity]

Let's cut through all of the theological crud here.
Here is the essence of salvational assurance..... are you ready??????????

Do you want me to post it?Excuse me? Theological crud?!

This is not an attempt to make some doctrinal statement or to correct doctrinal error. It's simply a question just to check and see how you believe. I think it's really important.

I thought you'd just answer with a simple "yes". Guess it can't be that simple.

I'm not trying to make you angry although you seem to be getting that way. Sorry. :(

[Steve Epley]

Do you agree w/ this PP???

How do you reconcile this with Hebrews 6, Matt and Elder???

1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

2Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

3And this will we do, if God permit.

9But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

That is the foundational doctrine in Heb. 6 from there we go like to long sleeves.:tease :tease

[Ronzo]

My friend Ronzo, there comes a time in every persons life that we must find out for ourselves. Those that teach error will be held accountable, but those that choose not to seek out their own salvation, WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING, will also be held accountable.

I agree... but we don't have to quake with fear... we have assurance, if we follow Him.

The fear and trembling spoken of in that verse points to reverance and love for God. Not hiding under a rock in fear like the Israelites did when Moses presented them to God at Sinai.

[Ronzo]

I thought these words are no-nos here...I used it and was spanked. :ranting :heeheehee
I guess the admins can and get away with it?

[stmatthew]

I thought these words are no-nos here...I used it and was spanked. :ranting :heeheehee

I did not state that JA was stupid or ignorant, but that his statements were. Big difference. I dealt with the statement, and not the man that made the statement.

[IAintMovin]

In a captivating message at the 2007 BOTT, Jeff Arnold, a solid PAJCer, and a favorite preacher of mine, remarked that many within the movement have not moved beyond Acts 2:38 and Knowing the book.

He went as far to exhort the listeners that many in the movement don't really KNOW GOD.

One interesting quote from the message and I paraphrase is .....

"You are married to doctrine and have divorced youself from Deity."

What say ye of this message? I will post audio of the message later.

Have some made Acts 2:38 and standards THE MESSAGE ... while Jesus is sitting on the outside looking in????


Just asking a question ....Hummm... kinda funny how you just threw that in there. I have only read the first post - so this may have already been discussed, but I just wonder is it standards you are after, or the message of salvation? hummmmm

[Nahum]

Do you agree w/ this PP???

How do you reconcile this with Hebrews 6, Matt and Elder???

1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

2Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

3And this will we do, if God permit.

9But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

I do not believe God is itching to throw us all in Hell. Quite the contrary.
We are told He is "not willing that any should perish". The danger lies in thinking that God is absent of either His Mercy or Judgement.

I will be politically correct, and completely honest, in saying that I do not believe Matt is at odds with Hebrews 6.

I attempted to engage a dialogue concerning this very subject last night.
My reference was the letters from Christ to the seven churches in Asia Minor.

Some churches were deeply involved in sinful activity, yet given space to repent before the light was put out in them. God repeatedly expressed His displeasure with their sin, but extended a space to repent.

Think about it.

[stmatthew]

Do you agree w/ this PP???

How do you reconcile this with Hebrews 6, Matt and Elder???

1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

2Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

3And this will we do, if God permit.

9But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.



So do you think that you leave doctrine to go on into perfection??

I am all for going on into perfection, but I really do not think Paul was meaning that we abandon Doctrine in order to do it. We build upon the foundation.

[SDG]

Hummm... kinda funny how you just threw that in there. I have only read the first post - so this may have already been discussed, but I just wonder is it standards you are after, or the message of salvation? hummmmm

You caught me .. Aint ... now answer the question ....

[Ronzo]

I did not state that JA was stupid or ignorant, but that his statements were. Big difference. I dealt with the statement, and not the man that made the statement.
He's got a point, J.

Next time, just say the comment someone made was stupid or ignorant.

You'll be treated much better by that person's friends, I'm sure.

[J-Roc]

Your making me afraid :eek: by putting "fear" in red.....:killinme :killinme



My Brother, appearances can be deceiving..........:killinme




Perfect Love comes with muturity and understanding. There was a time I was afraid of my Dad spanking me. That fear helped me act correctly, until I could come to understand the good and loving reasons to act appropriately. As I grew I understood what my Dad was trying to teach me and began to obey out of love and respect rather than fear.


DWW, yes we do love and respect our LORD and when we refer to the fear of the LORD we refer to reverence...and although you feared of being spanked by your dad, I am willing to bet you never thought he would kill you provided that his correction was clear demonstration of wanting better things for you...If he was a good dad, I am sure you felt secure in his love.

[SDG]

So do you think that you leave doctrine to go on into perfection??

I am all for going on into perfection, but I really do not think Paul was meaning that we abandon Doctrine in order to do it. We build upon the foundation.

I agree. But are some stuck on making sure everyone is on the foundation???

[IAintMovin]

I thought these words are no-nos here...I used it and was spanked. :ranting :heeheeheeBelieve it or not you can disagree with someone without insulting them personally, this is what Matt did. He delt with the statement and not the man. There was no disrespect to Bro. Arnold as a minister.

[Nahum]

Excuse me? Theological crud?!

This is not an attempt to make some doctrinal statement or to correct doctrinal error. It's simply a question just to check and see how you believe. I think it's really important.

I thought you'd just answer with a simple "yes". Guess it can't be that simple.

I'm not trying to make you angry although you seem to be getting that way. Sorry. :(

Sister, that comment was tic, and not at all meant as insult. I communicated poorly. Forgive me?

[J-Roc]

You mean our salvation doesn't teeter on the head of a pin?

I can finally live my life without being afraid of getting struck by lightning for making one false move?


:bliss


Yes, my brother....dance in your freedom found in Christ!

[LaVonne]

Hummm... kinda funny how you just threw that in there. I have only read the first post - so this may have already been discussed, but I just wonder is it standards you are after, or the message of salvation? hummmmm

Aaaaakkkk...I missed that!

[Felicity]

Sister, that comment was tic, and not at all meant as insult. I communicated poorly. Forgive me?Yes of course, but there was really no need to ask for apology at all. I just wanted a yes or no really.

I agree totally with the 3 points you made but you never really answered my question directly. :ranting


:) ;)

[J-Roc]

So many don'ts, people are scared and walk on egg shells. It creates anxiety.


People like that are obviously not hearing the GOOD news...I am attracted to the gospel for the promises it offers me, not for the damnation I am trying to avoid...my focus aint on staying away from hell, my focus is on developing a relationship with my Savior so that one day I have the hope of spending eternity with such a good God!

[Nahum]

I do not believe God is itching to throw us all in Hell. Quite the contrary.
We are told He is "not willing that any should perish". The danger lies in thinking that God is absent of either His Mercy or Judgement.

I will be politically correct, and completely honest, in saying that I do not believe Matt is at odds with Hebrews 6.

I attempted to engage a dialogue concerning this very subject last night.
My reference was the letters from Christ to the seven churches in Asia Minor.

Some churches were deeply involved in sinful activity, yet given space to repent before the light was put out in them. God repeatedly expressed His displeasure with their sin, but extended a space to repent.

Think about it.

For Daniel

[LaVonne]

People like that are obviously not hearing the GOOD news...I am attracted to the gospel for the promises it offers me, not for the damnation I am trying to avoid...my focus aint on staying away from hell, my focus is on developing a relationship with my Savior so that one day I have the hope of spending eternity with such a good God!

That's how it should be!

[Nahum]

Agreed! I do not believe in unconditional eternal security either! Definitely not!!

Can you proclaim with full assurance here and now that if the rapture takes place 10 min. from now or if something happened and you died that you would be okay as far as your soul is concerned?

Do you teach your people that if they're living an overcoming life they don't have to worry about hell?


Felicity,
YES

[SDG]

For Daniel

Perhaps then you agree with part of the spirit of the questions I posted early in this thread?

[Bryan]

People like that are obviously not hearing the GOOD news...I am attracted to the gospel for the promises it offers me, not for the damnation I am trying to avoid...my focus aint on staying away from hell, my focus is on developing a relationship with my Savior so that one day I have the hope of spending eternity with such a good God!I endorse this post! :highfive

[Nahum]

Perhaps then you agree with part of the spirit of the questions I posted early in this thread?

I don't see the connection. Let's not go back there, okay?

[SDG]

I endorse this post! :highfive

me too.

[J-Roc]

And why don't they? Because they are not taugh or because they are unteachable? Because they still want a bottle instead of a steak? The Holy Ghost is supposed to lead and guide us into all Truth.

If you search you will find....but many are complacent with thinking every thought and idea that comes from their Pastor must be accurate...the HG will lead you if you excavate...but if you wont go into the mine, your chances of finding golden nuggets decrease...

[IAintMovin]

Aaaaakkkk...I missed that!
Funny how you dont get an answer aint it?

Oh well....

[Felicity]

Felicity,
YES Great! I'm glad to hear this!

:thumbsup

[SDG]

Funny how you dont get an answer aint it?

Oh well....

I answered you ... go back Aint ... I said you've got me .. now answer the questions.

[LaVonne]

Funny how you dont get an answer aint it?

Oh well....

It is interesting.

I feel stupid for not seeing it in the first place. I still feel the same way about the things I posted though.

[Felicity]

Hummm... kinda funny how you just threw that in there. I have only read the first post - so this may have already been discussed, but I just wonder is it standards you are after, or the message of salvation? hummmmmWell the fact is standards haven't been discussed here at all.

It's a miracle!! :bliss

LOL!

[J-Roc]

The man knocks the ball out of the park!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:highfive :highfive :highfive :highfive :highfive :highfive


That's what the announcers thought, but wait...Hideki Matsui leaps over the left field wall and snatches the alleged homer....HE'S OUT! Yankees win...duuuhhhhhhh, Yankees win1 :heeheehee

[SDG]

It is interesting.

I feel stupid for not seeing it in the first place. I still feel the same way about the things I posted though.

That means you see the problem affect our movement.

[Bryan]

me too.
lol

[mizpeh]

Lets face the facts that God places a great emphasis upon doctrine, because it is by doctrine that we can know Christ. Evidentially, JA does not have that same emphesis.

I think Bro Arnold was making a point that just because we know God by knowing God's word, it may be possible that we may not know the one who speaks the word. If we are like the Pharisees and the Saducees who lived by the law and not by faith, then we may not recognize Christ if He was right in front of us! He came unto his own and his own received him not.

I think Bro Arnold may be prodding some to a deeper walk and more intimate knowledge of God.

[SDG]

Hideki Matsui ... has no hops ... J.

[SDG]

I think Bro Arnold was making a point that just because we know God by knowing God's word, it may be possible that we may not know the one who speaks the word. If we are like the Pharisees and the Saducees who lived by the law and not by faith, then we may not recognize Christ if He was right in front of us! He came unto his own and his own received him not.

I think Bro Arnold may be prodding some to a deeper walk and more intimate knowledge of God.

Ya think.

[stmatthew]

I agree. But are some stuck on making sure everyone is on the foundation???

I can't deny that this could be the case. But I also can't deny the fact that if they are not on the foundation, then it makes little difference what they build.


The problem I see is that it is a broadbrush type statement. I have been to many churches and have not heard Acts 2:38 preached every service. Believe it or not, though we dog on it a lot here, it isn't preached as much as some believe.

[SDG]

I can't deny that this could be the case. But I also can't deny the fact that if they are not on the foundation, then it makes little difference what they build.


The problem I see is that it is a broadbrush type statement. I have been to many churches and have not heard Acts 2:38 preached every service. Believe it or not, though we dog on it a lot here, it isn't preached as much as some believe.

:ty

[Fireside]

I agree. But are some stuck on making sure everyone is on the foundation???

If you aren't on the foundation, you aren't part of the building.

[J-Roc]

My friend Ronzo, there comes a time in every persons life that we must find out for ourselves. Those that teach error will be held accountable, but those that choose not to seek out their own salvation, WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING, will also be held accountable.


More of that knee-knocking trembling....why do some approach salvation in fear...is this not referring to respect and reverence when it says fear and trembling?

[IAintMovin]

I answered you ... go back Aint ... I said you've got me .. now answer the questions.
Took me a minute wanted to go back and re-read the question and see if it really was as simple to answer as I thought it was.

Easy question, thanks for asking an easy on.

It it totally impossible to embrace the Acts 2:38 message and leave the deity of the Acts 2:38 message on the back burner. Oh you may run with some rule or guideline and call it God, but when you really embrace Acts 2:38, John 3:5 and in reality the whole of the Word of God, you cannot leave God out of the picture. If all you are following is rules and guidelines that someone has passed down, biblically backed up or not, you are not embracing the God of that salvation message.

If you truly embrace Acts 2:38 - you truly embrace God.

[SDG]

If you aren't on the foundation, you aren't part of the building.

You gotta love the TRUTH POLICE.

[Ronzo]

If you truly embrace Acts 2:38 - you truly embrace God.


Acts 2:38 is God, then eh?

[IAintMovin]

If you aren't on the foundation, you aren't part of the building.Me understands that if you are not on the foundation, you are on the sand, unless there was a third place that a house was built that I dont remember Jesus speaking of, but I think that was the two that He spoke of.

[Fireside]

You gotta love the TRUTH POLICE.


Your flippant remarks do not obscure the fact that you cannot refute the statement.:)

You will not insult me by poking at me about my love for Truth. I don't find that insulting.

[IAintMovin]

Acts 2:38 is God, then eh?Thanks for another easy one.... no it is His Word.....Good Book ..... everybody should read it...

[J-Roc]

I did not state that JA was stupid or ignorant, but that his statements were. Big difference. I dealt with the statement, and not the man that made the statement.


Oh, it depends on what 'is' is? For the record, I used it in the same light as you did....

[stmatthew]

You gotta love the TRUTH POLICE.

Its called Sound Doctrine.

[Steve Epley]

Acts 2:38 is God, then eh?

Yes the WORD is God and Acts 2:38 is WORD!!!!!!!

[SDG]

Thanks for another easy one.... no it is His Word.....Good Book ..... everybody should read it...

so why not say that???

[IAintMovin]

Your flippant remarks do not obscure the fact that you cannot refute the statement.:)

You will not insult me by poking at me about my love for Truth. I don't find that insulting.LOL....when it is not insulting he will not even get in trouble for stating it... LOL.... LOVE THAT TRUTH.... throw everything that you can at it and when it is all said and done... still standing.....still shining... not even a scratch.....

[SDG]

Its called Sound Doctrine.

THE SOUND DOCTRINE POLICE???

[Felicity]

Hummm... kinda funny how you just threw that in there. I have only read the first post - so this may have already been discussed, but I just wonder is it standards you are after, or the message of salvation? hummmmm

Well the fact is standards haven't been discussed here at all.

It's a miracle!! :bliss

LOL!

[IAintMovin]

so why not say that???
dude my bad.... how stupid of me.... I thought I just did....


You are a funny man daniel......woooo hooooo

[Nahum]

Acts 2:38 is the proper response to the gospel. My obedience to it makes right relationship with God possible. How is a love for that message so wrong?

I STILL don't get the vitriol from you guys.

[Fireside]

Acts 2:38 is the proper response to the gospel. My obedience to it makes right relationship with God possible. How is a love for that message so wrong?

I STILL don't get the vitriol from you guys.

Nobody fights it as hard as those who once embraced it, because as long as someone is left still standing for the message they now scorn, they are condemned.

[Scott Hutchinson]

I'll be quite honest,I lean towards the three-step view,but I don't see any need to insult anybody.

[Nahum]

I'll be quite honest,I lean towards the three-step view,but I don't see any need to insult anybody.


Who's insulting anybody? This is mild Bro, very, very mild.

[stmatthew]

Oh, it depends on what 'is' is? For the record, I used it in the same light as you did....

If you feel that you were treated unfairly, PM admin, and it will be looked at. Each admin makes a judgment call in each individual circumstance.

But it has normally been the case that as long as one does not attack a person, but deals with the post or idea, then it is ok. We try to look at the attitude as well though. Again, each attending admin makes their own judgment in each instance.

[SDG]

SO AIN'T is there more to knowing God's Holiness then ensuring everyone is dress and adorned correctly and not watching TV???

[IAintMovin]

Truth doesnt move
Truth doesnt waiver
Truth doesnt blend
Truth doesnt bend
Truth could care less about popular opinion
Truth doesnt read polls
Truth is still truth when sin gets through with it
Truth will face the whole earth and still win
Change whatever doctrine you want to change to fit your standard and idea, Truth could care less, you know why, it is Truth.

John 8:32
John 14:6

[Fireside]

SO AIN'T is there more to knowing God's Holiness then ensuring everyone is dress and adorned correctly and not watching TV???

Changeing the subject?

[SDG]

dude my bad.... how stupid of me.... I thought I just did....


You are a funny man daniel......woooo hooooo

not as funny as you.

[Nahum]

If you feel that you were treated unfairly, PM admin, and it will be looked at. Each admin makes a judgment call in each individual circumstance.

But it has normally been the case that as long as one does not attack a person, but deals with the post or idea, then it is ok. We try to look at the attitude as well though. Again, each attending admin makes their own judgment in each instance.

For the record, Matthew is one of the most level-headed, and fair, posters on any forum. Leave him alone, he is right, the comments were stupid.

[SDG]

Changeing the subject?

Of course not .. look at post 1 ... fair game.

[Scott Hutchinson]

Who's insulting anybody? This is mild Bro, very, very mild.

Yes I know,I'm just speaking for myself.

[Nahum]

Truth doesnt move
Truth doesnt waiver
Truth doesnt blend
Truth doesnt bend
Truth could care less about popular opinion
Truth doesnt read polls
Truth is still truth when sin gets through with it
Truth will face the whole earth and still win
Change whatever doctrine you want to change to fit your standard and idea, Truth could care less, you know why, it is Truth.

John 8:32
John 14:6


I'm really starting to like you. You know what this post is?

TRUTH!!!!

[Nahum]

Of course not .. look at post 1 ... fair game.

Post one was a poorly veiled attempt to call us idolaters.

[SDG]

Post one was a poorly veiled attempt to call us idolaters.

Now answer it ... in light of standards PP ...

[SDG]

Post one was a poorly veiled attempt to call us idolaters.

It was a direct response to your assertions that PCIers have a powerless message hence ... if there's no power ... there is no God.

[IAintMovin]

SO AIN'T is there more to knowing God's Holiness then ensuring everyone is dress and adorned correctly and not watching TV???
Uhh..... when you cant win, you change the conversation????? you ask about Acts 2:38 did you not??

For the record DA, everyone has standards as you put them and they are a direct reflection of what is living inside of them.

If my life reflects in its whole the world than I guess that is what is inside of me, if I am separated and Holy in my conversation, dress, activities, guess that too reflects what is inside of me.

I have never known of one person who let "everything" go that stuck with the truth gospel message. They may still "preach" it themselves, but they will also state that those who do not are still all right.

Sorry bro, kinda sidestepped there.... Acts 2:38 now that was your question right???

Do you believe Acts 2:38????

[Nahum]

Now answer it ... in light of standards PP ...

What in the world are you talking about Daniel?
What does this have to do with standards?

[SDG]

What in the world are you talking about Daniel?
What does this have to do with standards?

Ain't pointed it out ... it's in Post 1 ... look at it.

[IAintMovin]

I'm really starting to like you. You know what this post is?

TRUTH!!!!Dont tell anybody... we may have to fight tomorrow... LOL....Thanks

[Steve Epley]

SO AIN'T is there more to knowing God's Holiness then ensuring everyone is dress and adorned correctly and not watching TV???

Dan do you realize how insulting this is???????????? I taught a standard series once in the last 5 years.
Tonite I taught on Propitiation
Last Bible class I taught Reconciliation
Before that Imputation
Before that "Made Accepted in the Beloved."
I promise you from this pulpit there is a constant thundering of redemption, righteousness of God, the holiness of God, the failure of man, the blood-grace-mercy,
Of the churches I have been associated with all teach in this manner some may say more about externals and some may say less. But our people do not get a steady diet of standards. I am not saying this does NOT happen in some places but the majority of places I preach this is NOT the norm. Our meetings are not filled with this type of preaching. However at times at home and in meetings we are not afraid of the subject of standards but they are not our diet. But standards are NOT the topic here!!!!!!!!!!!! It is the salvation message of Acts 2 :38!

[SDG]

Uhh..... when you cant win, you change the conversation????? you ask about Acts 2:38 did you not??

For the record DA, everyone has standards as you put them and they are a direct reflection of what is living inside of them.

If my life reflects in its whole the world than I guess that is what is inside of me, if I am separated and Holy in my conversation, dress, activities, guess that too reflects what is inside of me.

I have never known of one person who let "everything" go that stuck with the truth gospel message. They may still "preach" it themselves, but they will also state that those who do not are still all right.

Sorry bro, kinda sidestepped there.... Acts 2:38 now that was your question right???

Do you believe Acts 2:38????

I've said it I do a million times on this forum ... asking it won't change it.

[Nahum]

It was a direct response to your assertions that PCIers have a powerless message hence ... if there's no power ... there is no God.

You are not a PCIer, as there is no such thing.

BTW, without the Holy Ghost, there is no power. See Acts 1:8

dunamis = dynamite

[IAintMovin]

What in the world are you talking about Daniel?
What does this have to do with standards?Dan has apples and fish - two great topics.... he is just trying to make em brothers......if you truly obey Actss 2:38, "standards" are no problem whatsoever..... cause you are in Love with God and He will lead you into all Truth..... oopppssss that is that Truth again....

[SDG]

Dan do you realize how insulting this is???????????? I taught a standard series once in the last 5 years.
Tonite I taught on Propitiation
Last Bible class I taught Reconciliation
Before that Imputation
Before that "Made Accepted in the Beloved."
I promise you from this pulpit there is a constant thundering of redemption, righteousness of God, the holiness of God, the failure of man, the blood-grace-mercy,

Of the churches I have been associated with all teach in this manner some may say more about externals and some may say less. But our people do not get a steady diet of standards. I am not saying this does NOT happen in some places but the majority of places I preach this is NOT the norm. Our meetings are not filled with this type of preaching. However at times at home and in meetings we are not afraid of the subject of standards but they are not our diet.

So if does happen in SOME places then it is a legitimate question.

[Sherri]

Dan do you realize how insulting this is???????????? I taught a standard series once in the last 5 years.
Tonite I taught on Propitiation
Last Bible class I taught Reconciliation
Before that Imputation
Before that "Made Accepted in the Beloved."
I promise you from this pulpit there is a constant thundering of redemption, righteousness of God, the holiness of God, the failure of man, the blood-grace-mercy,
Of the churches I have been associated with all teach in this manner some may say more about externals and some may say less. But our people do not get a steady diet of standards. I am not saying this does NOT happen in some places but the majority of places I preach this is NOT the norm. Our meetings are not filled with this type of preaching. However at times at home and in meetings we are not afraid of the subject of standards but they are not our diet.

Bro. Epley, I think sometimes we misunderstand you on this forum, because on here, you are constantly harping on standards. That gives people the impression that it's what you would preach about all the time. I used to think that, but I know that you are much deeper than that now. I believe that you are a good Godly pastor that loves his people very much.

Bet you didn't expect that, coming from me!!!:tease

[Bryan]

This kinda reminds me of a convo I had with an English teacher when I was a sophomore in high school.
We used to discuss the bible on an almost daily basis. One day Peter says to me:
"You are so focused on the bible almost to the point of worshipping it. I don't care
if Mary ascended into heaven or if the pope is infallible.."

[SDG]

You are not a PCIer, as there is no such thing.

BTW, without the Holy Ghost, there is no power. See Acts 1:8

dunamis = dynamite

The extermination is complete

you're right about the HG ... and it's a gift from God ...

[IAintMovin]

I've said it I do a million times on this forum ... asking it won't change it.I say this kindly, I have not read your post because I do not think they are really worth my time, you have every right to post here as do I as long as we stay in the "standards" (hehe) set forth in the rules of this forum. I ask because I have not read your stuff, and asking a simple quesition is easier than reading hundreds of post.

sorry if my asking offends you.

[SDG]

I say this kindly, I have not read your post because I do not think they are really worth my time, you have every right to post here as do I as long as we stay in the "standards" (hehe) set forth in the rules of this forum. I ask because I have not read your stuff, and asking a simple quesition is easier than reading hundreds of post.

sorry if my asking offends you.

Aint I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

[Nahum]

Ain't pointed it out ... it's in Post 1 ... look at it.

Okay, yes I agree with you partially. Some have made standards the message. Acts 2:38 must be the response to the message, which is the gospel (death, burial and resurrection). That can never, ever change - no matter what cultural standard changes.

[Steve Epley]

So if does happen in SOME places then it is a legitimate question.

Some places is not this place like in SOME places they have NO standards but that has nothing to do with this topic.:tease

[J-Roc]

If you feel that you were treated unfairly, PM admin, and it will be looked at. Each admin makes a judgment call in each individual circumstance.

But it has normally been the case that as long as one does not attack a person, but deals with the post or idea, then it is ok. We try to look at the attitude as well though. Again, each attending admin makes their own judgment in each instance.


God said, "My people are destroyed from lack of knowledge"

when I used the word ignorant, I simply meant he had the right to lack that knowledge....obviously, one of the admins didn't like it so to be compliant, I removed it...but again, I think I used it in the same light as you did...no, I won't take it further and protest in PMs...I'll leave it at that. I was just surprised that you could use it in the same light that I was using it without any spank.

[IAintMovin]

Have a great night all. God bless, I am off to spend some time riding with our police department..... gonna go hunt real bad guys.. LOL

Later....

[Steve Epley]

Bro. Epley, I think sometimes we misunderstand you on this forum, because on here, you are constantly harping on standards. That gives people the impression that it's what you would preach about all the time. I used to think that, but I know that you are much deeper than that now. I believe that you are a good Godly pastor that loves his people very much.

Bet you didn't expect that, coming from me!!!:tease

We fuss here like now!:highfive Thank you for the compliment.

[Nahum]

I say this kindly, I have not read your post because I do not think they are really worth my time, you have every right to post here as do I as long as we stay in the "standards" (hehe) set forth in the rules of this forum. I ask because I have not read your stuff, and asking a simple quesition is easier than reading hundreds of post.

sorry if my asking offends you.

Daniel's a very bright guy.....most of the time.:heeheehee
He just needs my help every now and again. :tease

[IAintMovin]

Aint I will give you the benefit of the doubt.FTR I ask not to jab at you... I honestly didnt know..... God bless

[ChTatum]

Dan has apples and fish - two great topics.... he is just trying to make em brothers......if you truly obey Actss 2:38, "standards" are no problem whatsoever..... cause you are in Love with God and He will lead you into all Truth..... oopppssss that is that Truth again....

But whose standards, IAM?

If one is not real level-headed, reading the above post almost sounds as if those who do not adhere haven't truly obeyed Acts 2:38, and may not be in love with God.

I assure you, we all have some, some Biblical, some extra-Biblical,and some even un-Biblical.

So which ones are you referencing?

[SDG]

Okay, yes I agree with you partially. Some have made standards the message. Acts 2:38 must be the response to the message, which is the gospel (death, burial and resurrection). That can never, ever change - no matter what cultural standard changes.

Ah ... so your anger this morning ... was only partial ... lol.

:killinme :killinme :killinme :killinme :killinme

[J-Roc]

For the record, Matthew is one of the most level-headed, and fair, posters on any forum. Leave him alone, he is right, the comments were stupid.


If you wish to step up to me, first catch a real fish...don't come to with your tiny fishy....so saith Goliath. :tease :heeheehee

[SDG]

But whose standards, IAM?

If one is not real level-headed, reading the above post almost sounds as if those who do not adhere haven't truly obeyed Acts 2:38, and may not be in love with God.

I assure you, we all have some, some Biblical, some extra-Biblical,and some even un-Biblical.

So which ones are you referencing?

Those that are extrabiblical ... and unbiblical as measures that define God and His people.

[Nahum]

Ah ... so your anger this morning ... was only partial ... lol.

:killinme :killinme :killinme :killinme :killinme

I was not angry at you, I just love the message.

[SDG]

I was not angry at you, I just love the message.

Are the message and the extrabiblical standards forever intertwined? Do both seek to define God's salvation and holiness?

[SDG]

I was not angry at you, I just love the message.

I am glad you agree with half of my original post though.

[LaVonne]

That means you see the problem affect our movement.

That means that I can see how we may be focusing too much on Acts 2:38. However, I am just now remembering a Pastor we sat under for a time who rarely preached Acts 2:38 and the interesting thing is no one recieved the HG in the year we were there. There does need to be a balance. Acts 2:38 is sooo important, it's what makes us the Bride of Christ, if we obey it.

[Steve Epley]

Are the message and the extrabiblical standards forever intertwined? Do both seek to define God's salvation and holiness?

PP can't you see the message and standards are one in the same to them. They are living proof standard first then doctrine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is not broadbrushing just an observation.

[J-Roc]

I am glad you agree with half of my original post though.


Looks like you half-way own him, Danny-Boy...your Pet Project as you say. :heeheehee