Preaching Evil Attitudes

[J-Roc]

What on earth is this? Is this nasty or what? :ignore

I've never seen anything like this...



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[redeemedcynic84]

eh...

if this were a guy at a men's conference no one would bat an eye...

[J-Roc]

I doubt that! Has nothing to do with the sex of the individual...

[redeemedcynic84]

I doubt that! Has nothing to do with the sex of the individual...

depends...

who's Bishop Weeks and what in the world did I miss?? lol

some of the things seemed wierd because a girl was saying it, but I didn't see anything wrong with any of what she said, but I have no idea who Bishop Weeks is... :googling: I'll be back in 10 minutes lol

[AmazingGrace]

Well all I can say is .... HMMMMMMMMM

And I guess she knew what she was doing well in advance huh?!

And he did too... I am not discounting what he did was wrong... yes it was

But I almost have to wonder and have since the first thread came up on this... DID he do it or did SHE?

[redeemedcynic84]

found articles... I still don't see anything wrong with it...

She's telling those women to stand up for themselves... She didn't tell them to beat thier husbands...

And whether she was in a happy marriage or not, it has nothing to do with the fact that there were probably a lot of women there who had thier husband leave them and were hurting and just sitting and moping about it and that kind of stuff can help a person who is feeling like that.... (the desperate to take him back no matter how bad what he did was type)

I have to say its hilarious that they're trying to say the guy was set up... lol What she had someone else beat her up so she could say he did it?

[AmazingGrace]

found articles... I still don't see anything wrong with it...

She's telling those women to stand up for themselves... She didn't tell them to beat thier husbands...

And whether she was in a happy marriage or not, it has nothing to do with the fact that there were probably a lot of women there who had thier husband leave them and were hurting and just sitting and moping about it and that kind of stuff can help a person who is feeling like that.... (the desperate to take him back no matter how bad what he did was type)

I have to say its hilarious that they're trying to say the guy was set up... lol What she had someone else beat her up so she could say he did it?

You have to know the personality type.. its very possible!

[J-Roc]

depends...

who's Bishop Weeks and what in the world did I miss?? lol

some of the things seemed wierd because a girl was saying it, but I didn't see anything wrong with any of what she said, but I have no idea who Bishop Weeks is... :googling: I'll be back in 10 minutes lol


Are you serious? Her attitude was right? She demonstrated the thoughts of Christ to you? Using the Sopranos (mafia family) as a model for behavior is okay with you?

[redeemedcynic84]

umm... Why was his first indication of marital problems her announcing she was leaving if he "walked away from many situations" with his wife throughout thier marriage???

So they had physical altercations all throughout thier marriage and his first indication there were problems was when she walked out the door? Give me a break...

[redeemedcynic84]

Are you serious? Her attitude was right? She demonstrated the thoughts of Christ to you? Using the Sopranos (mafia family) as a model for behavior is okay with you?

if you take in in context, yes... She was telling them not to freak out and yell and go crazy, but stay calm in a situation where there is a disagreement or a fight...

Rather than yell and go crazy and get violent, just stay calm and still and talk about it...

then she used a popular pop culture reference to illustrate that point...

Absolutely nothing wrong with it...

[bishoph]

Most of the replies to this topic of Juanita and Bishop Weeks causes me to laugh, because it is clear that most of the people responding don't have a real clue as to the dynamics of and African American (politically correct) or Black family. (And yes they are different)

[Fireside]

How anyone could defend this kind of screeching and caterwauling and blatant manifestation of a jezebel spirit I have no clue.

Get a grip--this is ungodly down to the core.

[Fireside]

Most of the replies to this topic of Juanita and Bishop Weeks causes me to laugh, because it is clear that most of the people responding don't have a real clue as to the dynamics of and African American (politically correct) or Black family. (And yes they are different)


Brother, I disagree.

I pastor Black families, and their "dynamic" isn't represented by this screeching termagent.

[revrandy]

Women trying to be like Men... that's the problem with this stuff...

Women trying to Preach like men...

[Digging4Truth]

How anyone could defend this kind of screeching and caterwauling and blatant manifestation of a jezebel spirit I have no clue.

Get a grip--this is ungodly down to the core.

Yes sir... fleshly... sensual.... carnal reasoning.

Would you still feel this way if it was a man preaching these words?

I assume you would brother... not confronting you or anything... just asking.

[bishoph]

How anyone could defend this kind of screeching and caterwauling and blatant manifestation of a jezebel spirit I have no clue.

Get a grip--this is ungodly down to the core.

I think you took my comments wrong. I am not justifying her actions at all quite the contrary. I am referring to those who seem to be defending her.

[mfblume]

Are you serious? Her attitude was right? She demonstrated the thoughts of Christ to you? Using the Sopranos (mafia family) as a model for behavior is okay with you?

She did not condone the attitude of the Sopranos. lol She said that is the way people are and then they cut your throat. She was ahgainst that attitude.

I saw nothing wrong either. If you want to see attitudes in preaching, I have seen them amongst many UC's. Not all, but many. And any man who would beat up on his wife needs her to speak back and say she could find another man in a minute. I would recommend it, too!

[redeemedcynic84]

How anyone could defend this kind of screeching and caterwauling and blatant manifestation of a jezebel spirit I have no clue.

Get a grip--this is ungodly down to the core.

wait...

please define the "Jezebel" spirit, 'cuz I always thought it had to do with sex...

[Fireside]

Yes sir... fleshly... sensual.... carnal reasoning.

Would you still feel this way if it was a man preaching these words?

I assume you would brother... not confronting you or anything... just asking.


Absolutely.

The content is what is objectionable and ungodly.

It would be wicked no matter who was saying it.

Telling those women to tell themselves, "I can get another man in a minute!"

Dear goodness, how can anyone defend that mess?

As well as all that stuff that was nothing more than the wisdom of this world, earthly, sensual and devilish.

[Fireside]

wait...

please define the "Jezebel" spirit, 'cuz I always thought it had to do with sex...


It has as much to do with control and defiance of authority as it does sex. probably more, really, because sex is just a means to an end with the jezebel spirit. Another tool of manipulation when control is the real issue.

[revrandy]

It has as much to do with control and defiance of authority as it does sex. probably more, really, because sex is just a means to an end with the jezebel spirit. Another tool of manipulation when control is the real issue.

Nailed it...

[Fireside]

She did not condone the attitude of the Sopranos. lol She said that is the way people are and then they cut your throat. She was ahgainst that attitude.

I saw nothing wrong either. If you want to see attitudes in preaching, I have seen them amongst many UC's. Not all, but many. And any man who would beat up on his wife needs her to speak back and say she could find another man in a minute. I would recommend it, too!


I am amazed that you would defend this tirade.

Well, maybe not. :)

[redeemedcynic84]

Absolutely.

The content is what is objectionable and ungodly.

It would be wicked no matter who was saying it.

Telling those women to tell themselves, "I can get another man in a minute!"

Dear goodness, how can anyone defend that mess?

As well as all that stuff that was nothing more than the wisdom of this world, earthly, sensual and devilish.

ok... seriously, bro, you need to look at this from the angle of the specific people she was addressing that to...

She was addressing it to the meek, desperate ex-wives who sit and wish that thier husband who left them for some young girl will come back and beg him to come home every chance they get...

You are completely misunderstanding what she is saying...

She's saying to stop sitting there and pining and being absurdly, pathetically desperate for a guy who left you for someone else and doesn't want you anymore... Stand up and be srong... That's it... And I don't see how you could possibly see anything wrong in that...

[Scott Hutchinson]

I'm on dial-up so I can't see the video ,but I have heard this woman before these folks talk alot but don't really say anything, what some folks call preaching is pitiful.

[redeemedcynic84]

It has as much to do with control and defiance of authority as it does sex. probably more, really, because sex is just a means to an end with the jezebel spirit. Another tool of manipulation when control is the real issue.

yeah, not seeing how she is having a "Jezebel spirit" then...

She isn't telling those women to take control over people... She's telling women to stop letting thier ex-husbands control thier lives.... that's a good thing...

[Fireside]

ok... seriously, bro, you need to look at this from the angle of the specific people she was addressing that to...

She was addressing it to the meek, desperate ex-wives who sit and wish that thier husband who left them for some young girl will come back and beg him to come home every chance they get...

You are completely misunderstanding what she is saying...

She's saying to stop sitting there and pining and being absurdly, pathetically desperate for a guy who left you for someone else and doesn't want you anymore... Stand up and be srong... That's it... And I don't see how you could possibly see anything wrong in that...


The whole spirit and direction of what she was preaching was ungodly.

The wisdom of this world, not the wisdom which is from above.

Go read James for more information on that reference.

[Digging4Truth]

Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded [is] death; but to be spiritually minded [is] life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

[Fireside]

yeah, not seeing how she is having a "Jezebel spirit" then...

She isn't telling those women to take control over people... She's telling women to stop letting thier ex-husbands control thier lives.... that's a good thing...


If you think this is cool, marry a gal steeped in that kind of thinking and you will learn more about jezebel in the first six monthsof your blissful marriage than I could ever tell you.

You don't listen much anyway. :)

[revrandy]

Bynum is a performer no doubt... shallowness can only last so long before people stop buying it...

[redeemedcynic84]

The whole spirit and direction of what she was preaching was ungodly.

The wisdom of this world, not the wisdom which is from above.

Go read James for more information on that reference.

how did you get the spirit or direction of anything from a 30 second clip?? I'm sure if I video-recorded a few of your sermons I could cut out a few clips that made you look pretty bad, too...

and what exactly was wrong with what she said??? You keep saying this "wisdom of the world" nonsense, but that's a copout... What actually is wrong with what she said?

And I know good and well where that reference was from, thanks for the thought, though...

[Scott Hutchinson]

I can't see this video ,but I have seen alot of so-Christian television and the content of alot of the so-called preaching is slim pickings.
It's a shame people listen to alot of the hog slop that passes for Christian ministry

[redeemedcynic84]

If you think this is cool, marry a gal steeped in that kind of thinking and you will learn more about jezebel in the first six monthsof your blissful marriage than I could ever tell you.

You don't listen much anyway. :)

in what kind of thinking?? Thinking that you can't let your ex-husband who ran off with someone else dictate your life to you???

I still don't see how that is bad... She isn't saying "don't let your husband dictate your life" she's saying "don't let your EX-husband dictate your life to you"...

[Digging4Truth]

how did you get the spirit or direction of anything from a 30 second clip?? I'm sure if I video-recorded a few of your sermons I could cut out a few clips that made you look pretty bad, too...

and what exactly was wrong with what she said??? You keep saying this "wisdom of the world" nonsense, but that's a copout... What actually is wrong with what she said?

And I know good and well where that reference was from, thanks for the thought, though...

So you do feel that these clips make her look bad and are not in line with a true Christian spirit?

[redeemedcynic84]

I'm on dial-up so I can't see the video ,but I have heard this woman before these folks talk alot but don't really say anything, what some folks call preaching is pitiful.

I can't see this video ,but I have seen alot of so-Christian television and the content of alot of the so-called preaching is slim pickings.
It's a shame people listen to alot of the hog slop that passes for Christian ministry

I have to say I'm excited to see the version that gets posted on page 5!! :killinme (Just messin' with ya bro...)

[redeemedcynic84]

So you do feel that these clips make her look bad and are not in line with a true Christian spirit?

not really, but I see how one could take them badly... Especially if one ignores the context of what she says (audience, meaning, etc.)...

[Fireside]

I think Ineed to just bow out of this thread with all my "nonsense."

I am hearing "Where Is My Hairbrush" playing in my head. :)

Have fun, bub.

Thanks for the correction.:)

[Scott Hutchinson]

I'm not UPCI but since alot of folks watch Christian television so- called they need have a alternative to what is out there.
All I can say is that Biblical ignorance is not bliss.

[redeemedcynic84]

I think Ineed to just bow out of this thread with all my "nonsense."

I am hearing "Where Is My Hairbrush" playing in my head. :)

Have fun, bub.

Thanks for the correction.:)

just back up what you say... making generalized statements like "Thati s the wisdom of the world" without giving any reason WHY you see it that way doesn't hold any water in my book... ya know?

I want a reason... if you are going to dismiss something or blast someone for something they say/do just have a reason for it...

[Fireside]

just back up what you say... making generalized statements like "Thati s the wisdom of the world" without giving any reason WHY you see it that way doesn't hold any water in my book... ya know?

I want a reason... if you are going to dismiss something or blast someone for something they say/do just have a reason for it...

I'm not going to labor trying to convince you of the obvious.

I've tried that before, and remember what an endless merry-go-round that is.

If you can't see how diametrically oposed her whole message and presentation is to what the Bible teaches, I don't think you would be convinced if I went back and quoted statement after statement, and then refuted it with Scripture, point by point.

You would then simply start obfuscating about context, and culture, and how the Bible isn't really blah blah blah...

So here's what we'll do:

I'll move on, and you pat yourself on the back and tell yourself that I obviously was intimidated by your superior intellect and command of the Scriptures, and excused myself to spare my tender feelings experiencing the agony of defeat.

:poloroid

[redeemedcynic84]

I'm not going to labor trying to convince you of the obvious.

I've tried that before, and remember what an endless merry-go-round that is.

If you can't see how diametrically oposed her whole message and presentation is to what the Bible teaches, I don't think you would be convinced if I went back and quoted statement after statement, and then refuted it with Scripture, point by point.

You would then simply start obfuscating about context, and culture, and how the Bible isn't really blah blah blah...

So here's what we'll do:

I'll move on, and you pat yourself on the back and tell yourself that I obviously was intimidated by your superior intellect and command of the Scriptures, and excused myself to spare my tender feelings experiencing the agony of defeat.

:poloroid

How's this, I'll do it for you... please show me where this is against scripture:

1. Don't yell and scream, be calm when in a disagreement...

2. Don't spend your life fretting and desperately fawning for your ex, get over him and move on with your life, he obviously did...

3. don't be a pushover, stand up for yourself, don't let yourself get walked all over constantly...

have fun :hypercoffee

[Hegavmelif]

Women trying to be like Men... that's the problem with this stuff...

Women trying to Preach like men...

YEA, preach like men, hunt like men (have you read that thread?), dress like men......but you let a man help out around the house or comb his daughter's hair (remember that thread) or go shopping and you got a homo. Please, what is with the double standard? :hypercoffee

[Fireside]

How's this, I'll do it for you... please show me where this is against scripture:

1. Don't yell and scream, be calm when in a disagreement...

2. Don't spend your life fretting and desperately fawning for your ex, get over him and move on with your life, he obviously did...

3. don't be a pushover, stand up for yourself, don't let yourself get walked all over constantly...

have fun :hypercoffee

I could sift through some old Hitler speeches and find isolated statements I agreed with too.

But that doesn't make him or his message righteous.

[redeemedcynic84]

I could sift through some old Hitler speeches and find isolated statements I agreed with too.

But that doesn't make him or his message righteous.

but those aren't isolated statements, it was EXACTLY WHAT SHE WAS SAYING!!

Did she use modern illustrations? Yes. But you are saying it was a worldly MESSAGE and the message of what she was saying was exactly what I just posted...

So, again I ask you, what exactly about the message she was getting across is wordly?

[Fireside]

but those aren't isolated statements, it was EXACTLY WHAT SHE WAS SAYING!!

Did she use modern illustrations? Yes. But you are saying it was a worldly MESSAGE and the message of what she was saying was exactly what I just posted...

So, again I ask you, what exactly about the message she was getting across is wordly?

OK, against my better judgement, briefly:

Her message taught a belligerent, bellicose, in-your-face attitude that was focused on the preservation of self and personal power.

This is 180 degrees opposite the message of the Scripture with concepts like meekness, submission, self-denial, etc.

[redeemedcynic84]

OK, against my better judgement, briefly:

Her message taught a belligerent, bellicose, in-your-face attitude that was focused on the preservation of self and personal power.

This is 180 degrees opposite the message of the Scripture with concepts like meekness, submission, self-denial, etc.

See, that makes sense...

I don't completely agree with you, but I think there was probably more "in-your-face" to it than is good...

But how else do you get those messages she was trying to get across to people??

I mean, aren't there situations where being meek and denying self is bad? Isn't there a point where those good things become too much of a good thing?

[Praxeas]

eh...

if this were a guy at a men's conference no one would bat an eye...
Yup...and those men would not be buying soy candles HAHAHAHAHAHA :killinme

[Praxeas]

See, that makes sense...

I don't completely agree with you, but I think there was probably more "in-your-face" to it than is good...

But how else do you get those messages she was trying to get across to people??

I mean, aren't there situations where being meek and denying self is bad? Isn't there a point where those good things become too much of a good thing?
You tell them verbatim what they need to hear? How do we know they even "got it"? I see a lot of excitement at some woman strutting up and down the aisles and making facial gestures...I've seen the evangelist go into a dance and everyone goes nuts.....because he was dancing. OK is that a universal message or something? I've seen it happen many times. Getting excited is not getting the message

[redeemedcynic84]

You tell them verbatim what they need to hear? How do we know they even "got it"? I see a lot of excitement at some woman strutting up and down the aisles and making facial gestures...I've seen the evangelist go into a dance and everyone goes nuts.....because he was dancing. OK is that a universal message or something? I've seen it happen many times. Getting excited is not getting the message

that is the other question... are people actually getting what she is trying to get across to them...

I don't have the answer to that (I don't think anyone here does)... So we really can't answer that question...

[Praxeas]

Are you serious? Her attitude was right? She demonstrated the thoughts of Christ to you? Using the Sopranos (mafia family) as a model for behavior is okay with you?
Brother you're sounding sane now....did you take a trip a little right of left? You'd make a great moderate :hypercoffee whooooohooooooooooooo

J/K, but I do agree with you here

[Praxeas]

that is the other question... are people actually getting what she is trying to get across to them...

I don't have the answer to that (I don't think anyone here does)... So we really can't answer that question...
What IS she trying to get across to them? What came across to you? I got "attitude" out of it, the opposite of a meek and gentle spirit.

[redeemedcynic84]

What IS she trying to get across to them? What came across to you? I got "attitude" out of it, the opposite of a meek and gentle spirit.

by and large, it was stand up for yourself stuff...

It was said in a brash way, yeah, but I don't think most people went out of there (if they got what she was saying) and acted how she did when she said it, rather in the middle ground between overly meek and brash...

Go watch it again, the subject of most of what she was saying was the overly meek person who, because they have no self-confidence, allows everyone to walk all over them... That isn't good...

its one thing to be meek and still have confidence... its another to be meek because you think that you aren't worth anything... She's speaking to those who think they aren't worth anything....

[MissBrattified]

Worldly principle: Stand up for yourself.
Biblical principle: Meekness

I believe in strength, and defending yourself, and all that good stuff, but at the same time, a CHRISTIAN woman will respond to a husband begging for forgiveness with mercy and forgiveness...not grabbing him by the nose and leading him around the grocery store and making him grovel.

The latter is very gratifying, but it isn't Christian. We aren't to pursue revenge against anyone either.

I think perhaps that some of what she said could have arisen from her personal troubles, but definitely not from God's Word!

I would label this video as unchristian. Not necessarily unfeminine. Angry woman, is the message I'm getting.

I would say that...I can understand her telling women not to sit around and feel sorry for themselves, and to move on and be successful. However, I don't think she said it in the right way.

[Praxeas]

by and large, it was stand up for yourself stuff...

That sounds like a generalized interpretation. Im asking you to be objective at each and every set of what she was saying and doing. TO me it said "get an attitude" contrary to the meek and humble spirit the bible speaks of. IN fact she seems to mock such a spirit in a couple of those sets

Go watch it again, the subject of most of what she was saying was the overly meek person who, because they have no self-confidence, allows everyone to walk all over them... That isn't good...
You watch it again. I watched a couple times now. And it seems she is saying to get an attitude towards men that is NOT a meek and humble attitude. In fact if you ever listen to Jessie Lee Peterson talk about black culture he says a LOT of black women have that attitude towards men. They allow the devil and bad men to give them wrong attitudes towards men.

its one thing to be meek and still have confidence... its another to be meek because you think that you aren't worth anything... She's speaking to those who think they aren't worth anything....
She was mocking having a meek attitude. She was taking this one step further from having confidence to being aggressive. This was a womens Empowerment seminar just as most of them are. It's not about becoming biblical virtuous women. In fact she even said in her opening remarks this is not about the church but about the world. She is moving in the same direction Paula White is...they are appealing to a secular market about secular issues and the solution is not Christ but a change in attitude by becoming bolder, agressive, proud...everything the opposite of meekness and humility, because they see that as a weakness

[Praxeas]

Worldly principle: Stand up for yourself.
Biblical principle: Meekness

I believe in strength, and defending yourself, and all that good stuff, but at the same time, a CHRISTIAN woman will respond to a husband begging for forgiveness with mercy and forgiveness...not grabbing him by the nose and leading him around the grocery store and making him grovel.

The latter is very gratifying, but it isn't Christian. We aren't to pursue revenge against anyone either.

I think perhaps that some of what she said could have arisen from her personal troubles, but definitely not from God's Word!

I would label this video as unchristian. Not necessarily unfeminine. Angry woman, is the message I'm getting.

I would say that...I can understand her telling women not to sit around and feel sorry for themselves, and to move on and be successful. However, I don't think she said it in the right way.
Exactly! She was not preaching self confidence, she was preaching aggressiveness, attitude, contrary to the bible and NOT just for a woman but for all Christians.

She is giving those women what they want to hear, not what they truly need

[redeemedcynic84]

I believe in strength, and defending yourself, and all that good stuff, but at the same time, a CHRISTIAN woman will respond to a husband begging for forgiveness with mercy and forgiveness...not grabbing him by the nose and leading him around the grocery store and making him grovel.

that wasn't the kind of relationship she was talking about...

It seemed to me she was talking about a guy who left and found someone else and doesn't wnat her back and she goes into "beg him to come back" mode any time she sees him...

The latter is very gratifying, but it isn't Christian. We aren't to pursue revenge against anyone either.

in your example, yeah... But the way I took it (and I think that's how she meant it) I don't see how one could have an issue with it...

I would say that...I can understand her telling women not to sit around and feel sorry for themselves, and to move on and be successful. However, I don't think she said it in the right way.

I definately think that she could have said it better... but there is a wide gap between "she could have said it better" and "its an evil worldly attitude", ya know?

[MissBrattified]

1Pe 3:1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
1Pe 3:2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.
1Pe 3:3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;
1Pe 3:4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.
1Pe 3:5 For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:
1Pe 3:6 Even as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.

THIS is Bible. The things that Juanita Bynum preached...well...they're gratifying...to the FLESH...but they are NOT based on biblical principles. Period. When a woman has a wayward husband, she can "win" him with her PURE BEHAVIOR! (chaste conversation) There's nothing there about punishing him.

[Praxeas]

Seems to me the biblical mode would be to just forgive him and move on...find a man in the church. Was she preaching to godly women who just lost a godly man?

[redeemedcynic84]

That sounds like a generalized interpretation. Im asking you to be objective at each and every set of what she was saying and doing. TO me it said "get an attitude" contrary to the meek and humble spirit the bible speaks of. IN fact she seems to mock such a spirit in a couple of those sets

no, she mocks a lack of self-confidence... In order to be meek like the Bible says you have to first have self-confidence...

Jesus didn't stand silently and take the beating because he didn't think he was worth enough to fight back, he took it because he knew it was best...

You watch it again. I watched a couple times now. And it seems she is saying to get an attitude towards men that is NOT a meek and humble attitude. In fact if you ever listen to Jessie Lee Peterson talk about black culture he says a LOT of black women have that attitude towards men. They allow the devil and bad men to give them wrong attitudes towards men.

again, I really think it was more talking about lack of confidence and self-worth than it was against meekness...

I don't think a woman who has no self-esteem is meek, even if her actions seem meek... they're not, they're defeated....

She was mocking having a meek attitude. She was taking this one step further from having confidence to being aggressive. This was a womens Empowerment seminar just as most of them are. It's not about becoming biblical virtuous women. In fact she even said in her opening remarks this is not about the church but about the world. She is moving in the same direction Paula White is...they are appealing to a secular market about secular issues and the solution is not Christ but a change in attitude by becoming bolder, agressive, proud...everything the opposite of meekness and humility, because they see that as a weakness

to a point yes, and that first part was hte part I had a problem with more than any other by far...

and I don't know anything about Paula White...

[MissBrattified]

Exactly! She was not preaching self confidence, she was preaching aggressiveness, attitude, contrary to the bible and NOT just for a woman but for all Christians.

She is giving those women what they want to hear, not what they truly need

I agree.

I can't imagine diatribe like this coming from Nona Freeman or Vesta Mangun or other godly women.

[redeemedcynic84]

1Pe 3:1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
1Pe 3:2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.
1Pe 3:3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;
1Pe 3:4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.
1Pe 3:5 For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:
1Pe 3:6 Even as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.

THIS is Bible. The things that Juanita Bynum preached...well...they're gratifying...to the FLESH...but they are NOT based on biblical principles. Period. When a woman has a wayward husband, she can "win" him with her PURE BEHAVIOR! (chaste conversation) There's nothing there about punishing him.

I think her point was that they can't win him back and they should move on and stop giving him the satisfaction of thinking she is lost without him...

most of the time when a guy leaves a woman for someone else, they aren't coming back... no matter what she does....

[Fireside]

Folks, this will never end.

[redeemedcynic84]

Seems to me the biblical mode would be to just forgive him and move on...find a man in the church. Was she preaching to godly women who just lost a godly man?

essentially she was hitting the "move on" part...

forgiveness doesn't always eliminate all the hurt that is left...

[MissBrattified]

I definately think that she could have said it better... but there is a wide gap between "she could have said it better" and "its an evil worldly attitude", ya know?

I think you're way to scared of the words "evil" and "worldly"...she is teaching worldliness, and I think teaching women something contrary to the word of God IS evil. I don't think its her intention, and like I said, the events in her personal life probably tainted what she had to say, but nevertheless, its in opposition to God's Word, appeals to the flesh, and therefore "worldly" and "evil" are apt descriptions.

[Fireside]

I agree.

I can't imagine diatribe like this coming from Nona Freeman or Vesta Mangun or other godly women.

Not in a million years.

[MissBrattified]

essentially she was hitting the "move on" part...

forgiveness doesn't always eliminate all the hurt that is left...

I think you'd be a lot less positive if this were a UPCI woman speaking at a UPCI Ladies' Conference.

This message is Drivel. Plain and simple.

[redeemedcynic84]

I think you're way to scared of the words "evil" and "worldly"...she is teaching worldliness, and I think teaching women something contrary to the word of God IS evil. I don't think its her intention, and like I said, the events in her personal life probably tainted what she had to say, but nevertheless, its in opposition to God's Word, appeals to the flesh, and therefore "worldly" and "evil" are apt descriptions.

like I said, though, how??

Telling women to have self-confidence? I don't see how that is un-Biblical...

Telling women who's husbands left them to move on and stop pining for him pathetically? Again, not seeing how that isn't Biblical...

Telling people to have some confidence in themselves? Again, you can't be meek if you have no self-confidence...

[Fireside]

I think you're way to scared of the words "evil" and "worldly"...she is teaching worldliness, and I think teaching women something contrary to the word of God IS evil. I don't think its her intention, and like I said, the events in her personal life probably tainted what she had to say, but nevertheless, its in opposition to God's Word, appeals to the flesh, and therefore "worldly" and "evil" are apt descriptions.

This is exactly right.

[Subdued]

See, that makes sense...

I don't completely agree with you, but I think there was probably more "in-your-face" to it than is good...

But how else do you get those messages she was trying to get across to people??

I mean, aren't there situations where being meek and denying self is bad? Isn't there a point where those good things become too much of a good thing?

Wouldn't this point make her message rather counterproductive - perhaps even "worldly?"

[redeemedcynic84]

I think you'd be a lot less positive if this were a UPCI woman speaking at a UPCI Ladies' Conference.

This message is Drivel. Plain and simple.

I'm not positive about it, I just think we're massively overstating how bad what she is saying is because its easy to rip on her...

it is mostly motivational-speaking drivel, it is mostly meaningless, and most of it is just going to get people to applaud and go buy the book (even though they'll never read it)... But the thing is that there are women in that audience who need to hear what she said...

I think the biggest issue is that the audience is much larger than the target audience....

[Fireside]

Everybody does a lot of feeling; some folks mistake it for thinking.

[Fireside]

I'm not positive about it, I just think we're massively overstating how bad what she is saying is because its easy to rip on her...

it is mostly motivational-speaking drivel, it is mostly meaningless, and most of it is just going to get people to applaud and go buy the book (even though they'll never read it)... But the thing is that there are women in that audience who need to hear what she said...

I think the biggest issue is that the audience is much larger than the target audience....

No woman "needs" to be taught unscriptural concepts, regardless of how appealing to the flesh or pop psych culture they may be.

[MissBrattified]

like I said, though, how??

Telling women to have self-confidence? I don't see how that is un-Biblical...

Telling women who's husbands left them to move on and stop pining for him pathetically? Again, not seeing how that isn't Biblical...

Telling people to have some confidence in themselves? Again, you can't be meek if you have no self-confidence...

I already told you "how". :)

1. The Bible doesn't encourage self-confidence. It teaches confidence in GOD.

2. She didn't just say to stop pining. She basically said that humiliating them in the grocery store was the way to go, and "success was the best revenge." Revenge shouldn't even be the goal, nor should "success" be the goal, if its simply to show a man what he's missing, instead of abiding in God's will.

3. Same as #1.

I've effectively proven my points. Moving on.

[Praxeas]

essentially she was hitting the "move on" part...

forgiveness doesn't always eliminate all the hurt that is left...
It sounds like you are pressuming to know what she really meant and then are reading it into what she actually said. Do that in reverse. Listen to what she actually said now without the presumption of what she meant

[Fireside]

I already told you "how". :)

1. The Bible doesn't encourage self-confidence. It teaches confidence in GOD.

2. She didn't just say to stop pining. She basically said that humiliating them in the grocery store was the way to go, and "success was the best revenge." Revenge shouldn't even be the goal, nor should "success" be the goal, if its simply to show a man what he's missing, instead of abiding in God's will.

3. Same as #1.

I've effectively proven my points. Moving on.


You have efectively and concisely proven your points.

But this poster NEVER concedes anything.

[redeemedcynic84]

I already told you "how". :)

1. The Bible doesn't encourage self-confidence. It teaches confidence in GOD.

2. She didn't just say to stop pining. She basically said that humiliating them in the grocery store was the way to go, and "success was the best revenge." Revenge shouldn't even be the goal, nor should "success" be the goal, if its simply to show a man what he's missing, instead of abiding in God's will.

3. Same as #1.

I've effectively proven my points. Moving on.

1. I don't see any place in the Bible where we are suppose to not think anything of ourselves (read: we are not suppose to see ourselves as worthless)

2. but it was a figurative thing, not a literal one... the humiliation is that she doens't need him anymore and he always LIKED that she needed him still... There was no active, well, action in the revenge, just her acting like she doesn't need him, because she doesn't...

[redeemedcynic84]

You have efectively and concisely proven your points.

But this poster NEVER concedes anything.

are you capable of posting something worthwhile or do you just like padding your post count?

[Praxeas]

I'm not positive about it, I just think we're massively overstating how bad what she is saying is because its easy to rip on her...

it is mostly motivational-speaking drivel, it is mostly meaningless, and most of it is just going to get people to applaud and go buy the book (even though they'll never read it)... But the thing is that there are women in that audience who need to hear what she said...

I think the biggest issue is that the audience is much larger than the target audience....
Even the liberals here are admitting what she said here was bad....Do you ever agree with anyone? Be objective.

[redeemedcynic84]

It sounds like you are pressuming to know what she really meant and then are reading it into what she actually said. Do that in reverse. Listen to what she actually said now without the presumption of what she meant

yes, I was attempting to figure out the kind of person she was speaking to...

You really have to do that to understand what someone is saying and to decipher any meaning...

messages gain and lose a lot of meaning when the audience is considered...

[Praxeas]

are you capable of posting something worthwhile or do you just like padding your post count?
Well he has a point. I made the same comment in the later post. It seems that you just disagree with everyone just for the sake of disagreeing...playing Devils Advocate...hey...you wouldn't happen to be......nah

[Praxeas]

yes, I was attempting to figure out the kind of person she was speaking to...

You really have to do that to understand what someone is saying and to decipher any meaning...

messages gain and lose a lot of meaning when the audience is considered...
No, what you really have to do is just listen to her words. Try it. Listen to her words from an unassuming non-subjective position

[redeemedcynic84]

Well he has a point. I made the same comment in the later post. It seems that you just disagree with everyone just for the sake of disagreeing...playing Devils Advocate...hey...you wouldn't happen to be......nah

lol, no, I'm not anyone else (except for who I admitted I was... I miss my name BTW }=o( )

and it is a little bit of Devil's Advocate...

and the point wasn't that he said it, its that he said it like 5 times in 10 posts in the thread....

[redeemedcynic84]

No, what you really have to do is just listen to her words. Try it. Listen to her words from an unassuming non-subjective position

but your position is just as assuming as mine is, yours is just assuming bad, whereas mine is looking for good...

what she said was brash, but her message wasn't... I would say her mannerisms were closer to ungodly than the points she was trying to make...

oh, and I don't think she always did a good job of making her point, nor do I think her illustrations were that great, but we didn't see the whole message and that probably has a little to do with that....

[MissBrattified]

Jas 3:10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.

Jas 3:11 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?

Jas 3:12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.

[redeemedcynic84]

Jas 3:10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.

Jas 3:11 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?

Jas 3:12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.

have you ever met anyone who never says anything wrong?

That verse applies to everyone and condemns us all...

[MissBrattified]

have you ever met anyone who never says anything wrong?

That verse applies to everyone and condemns us all...

*sigh*

[Praxeas]

but your position is just as assuming as mine is, yours is just assuming bad, whereas mine is looking for good...

what she said was brash, but her message wasn't... I would say her mannerisms were closer to ungodly than the points she was trying to make...

oh, and I don't think she always did a good job of making her point, nor do I think her illustrations were that great, but we didn't see the whole message and that probably has a little to do with that....
how do you know I assumed bad? I never said anything about what I assumed or presumed she meant. You did though. I just watched it. In fact I was a little skeptical since J-roc posted it because he is sort of liberal compared to me and I thought he was doing this TIC. But as I watched it I was genuinely disappointed and had the same reason J-roc did. Now I am assuming HE was being serious and I see others are in agreement.

It seems that you make a LOT of assumptions and then you base your entire thinking, posts, dialog and assessments of others on that presumption you have

[mfblume]

How's this, I'll do it for you... please show me where this is against scripture:

1. Don't yell and scream, be calm when in a disagreement...

2. Don't spend your life fretting and desperately fawning for your ex, get over him and move on with your life, he obviously did...

3. don't be a pushover, stand up for yourself, don't let yourself get walked all over constantly...

have fun :hypercoffee


Exactly.

Maybe it is control freaks who do not like to see this sort of thing.

[bishoph]

essentially she was hitting the "move on" part...

forgiveness doesn't always eliminate all the hurt that is left...

While this is a little bit off the ongoing subject, I strongly disagree with the highlighted portion. One of the greatest indicators that true forgiveness has been realized is when the pain is no longer felt. When I can still feel pain from an offense the forgiving/healing has not been complete.

I have scars today from injuries I experienced throughout the years. While I can look at those scars and remember the incident that caused the scar I no longer feel the pain from the injury. If I could still feel the pain from those long ago injuries it would mean that infection and other issues were compounding/prolonging the wound and if not treated properly would result in my demise. If when you look back at situations in your life, you still feel the pain, you have not healed, nor have you truly forgiven. True forgiveness does not equate to no longer remembering it equates to no more pain.

Having said that, Juanita's rant does nothing to heal her listeners, but rather seeks to tranquilize them with the anesthesia of bitterness and revenge. The end result of this is that when they wake up years down the road they will still be hurting, confused, and reliving the pain of their past in stead of being delivered. And that my friends is evil and worldly.

[mfblume]

I am amazed that you would defend this tirade.

Well, maybe not. :)

Dude, wwod was far worse than that in mere typing, and you condoned him? Wow. :) Maybe MEN can do that, but not women? Consistency, thou art a rare jewel indeed.

I think some folks have so much of a "They're not one of us" that they LOOK for problems, while ignoring the same things in their own ranks.

[Fireside]

Exactly.

Maybe it is control freaks who do not like to see this sort of thing.

Here you have it, ladies and gentlemen--a nice judgmental remark from one of the love-filled grace teachersthat got liberated from the UPC and its hateful clutches.

[mfblume]

Here you have it, ladies and gentlemen--a nice judgmental remark from one of the love-filled grace teachersthat got liberated from the UPC and its hateful clutches.

My point proven. :) .. from both my latest posts

[Nahum]

The video is just another example of a feminist agenda in the pulpit.

[Fireside]

The video is just another example of a feminist agenda in the pulpit.

Obviously you must be a control freak, as per the Blume revelation.

[Nahum]

Obviously you must be a control freak, as per the Blume revelation.

Oh well, and she isn't?

:hypercoffee

[mfblume]

Anyone hear of the term "Maybe"? :)


Maybe it is control freaks who do not like to see this sort of thing.

[AmazingGrace]

Oh well, and she isn't?

:hypercoffee

Of course she isnt.. havent you read??? She is just trying to "guide them as to what to do!":killinme:killinme:killinme

[Subdued]

While this is a little bit off the ongoing subject, I strongly disagree with the highlighted portion. One of the greatest indicators that true forgiveness has been realized is when the pain is no longer felt. When I can still feel pain from an offense the forgiving/healing has not been complete.

I have scars today from injuries I experienced throughout the years. While I can look at those scars and remember the incident that caused the scar I no longer feel the pain from the injury. If I could still feel the pain from those long ago injuries it would mean that infection and other issues were compounding/prolonging the wound and if not treated properly would result in my demise. If when you look back at situations in your life, you still feel the pain, you have not healed, nor have you truly forgiven. True forgiveness does not equate to no longer remembering it equates to no more pain.

I disagree with the statement above. See my post from the spiritual abuse thread, here:

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=108070&postcount=149

and particularly here:

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=108071&postcount=150


Having said that, Juanita's rant does nothing to heal her listeners, but rather seeks to tranquilize them with the anesthesia of bitterness and revenge. The end result of this is that when they wake up years down the road they will still be hurting, confused, and reliving the pain of their past in stead of being delivered. And that my friends is evil and worldly.

I do agree with the above, though. :)

[J-Roc]

Isnt the clinching of her jaws and speaking through her teeth enough evidence of someone that is speaking with so much hatred...she is suggesting that these women should harbor an attitude of hate and revenge...she promotes silent murder...she promotes an attitude of staring down (a clear invitation to more war and fighting)....she is teaching to be aggressive which is the opposite of what she perceives to be passive....both extremes are unnecessary....she is not promoting assertiveness - the true way to go.

This is nasty.... uuuugggggggghhhhhh

[Nahum]

Isnt the clinching of her jaws and speaking through her teeth enough evidence of someone that is speaking with so much hatred...she is suggesting that these women should harbor an attitude of hate and revenge...she promotes silent murder...she promotes an attitude of staring down (a clear invitation to more war and fighting)....she is teaching to be aggressive which is the opposite of what she perceives to be passive....both extremes are unnecessary....she is not promoting assertiveness - the true way to go.

This is nasty.... uuuugggggggghhhhhh

She needs Miss Brattified to teach her a thing or two.

[SDG]

My thoughts:

Some are using this situation to take shots at JB, a spirit-filled Christian, her ministry and the TBN crowd ... however that aside .... these recent JB statements are reprehensible, carnal and unChrist-like.

Let's look at this situation from some of things going on in her life right now.

Everyone knows her marriage is on the rocks ... and has been estranged from her husband for some time. She has made the mistake that many ministers have made over the years by allowing their pulpits to become bully pulpits to work out and justify personal battles and problems in their own lives.

We all do this ... we're upset w/ someone or something and try to justify or project it on others .... I've seen Apostolic preachers to David Koresh use the bible to justify poor decision and attitudes

Yet, a minister has a duty to separate some of their personal strife when ministering to the Body ... and not take it "out on them".

Someone has said that this video is 11 days before her skirmish w/ her estranged husband ... She was obviously feeling turmoil over it ... and it ran over to expressing an ungodly aggressive attitude in her teaching .... this could be one factor to why she and her husband are having problems.

If my memory is correct ... the day he hit her ... they had met ... to finalize some things ... he left the hotel room ... and she followed him down to the parking lot ....

Mistake #1 ... if they had come to a conclusion ... why follow him ...???

Mistake #2 ... I have to assume that she must've been very provocative towards her husband for him to raise his hand ... this in no way ... justifies this cowardly and reprehensible action by him ... however, if she displayed aggression when preaching about this ... I have to think that in private she was out of control ... and aggressive. Nothing good could result in confronting him like this in public.

True holiness ... God dwelling in us ... should be reflected at all times ... JB needs to find an altar and ask God to examine her and repent for her lack of temperance ... She must do whatever it takes to work out her marriage ... cause we're all watching.

[Nahum]

My thoughts:

Some are using this situation to take shots at JB, a spirit-filled Christian, her ministry and the TBN crowd ... however that aside .... these recent JB statements are reprehensible, carnal and unChrist-like.

Let's look at this situation from some of things going on in her life right now.

Everyone knows her marriage is on the rocks ... and has been estranged from her husband for some time. She has made the mistake that many ministers have made over the years by allowing their pulpits to become bully pulpits to work out and justify personal battles and problems in their own lives.

We all do this ... we're upset w/ someone or something and try to justify or project it on others ....

Yet, a minister has a duty to separate some of their personal strife when ministering to the Body ... and not take it "out on them".

Someone has said that this video is 11 days before her skirmish w/ her estranged husband ... She is obviously feeling turmoil over it ... and expressed an ungodly aggressive attitude which could be one factor to why she and her having problems.

If my memory is correct ... the day he hit her ... they had met ... to finalize some things ... he left the hotel room ... and she followed him ....

Mistake #1 ... if they had come to a conclusion ... why follow him ...???

Mistake #2 ... I have to assume that she must've been very provocative towards her husband for him to raise his hand ... this in no way ... justifies this cowardly and reprehensible action by him ... however, if she displayed aggression when preaching about this ... I have to think that in private she was out of control ... and aggressive.

True holiness ... God dwelling in us ... should be reflected at all times ... JB needs to find an altar and ask God to examine her ... and do whatever it takes to work out her marriage ... cause we're all watching.

Great post Daniel.

[MissBrattified]

My thoughts:

Some are using this situation to take shots at JB, a spirit-filled Christian, her ministry and the TBN crowd ... however that aside .... these recent JB statements are reprehensible, carnal and unChrist-like.

Let's look at this situation from some of things going on in her life right now.

Everyone knows her marriage is on the rocks ... and has been estranged from her husband for some time. She has made the mistake that many ministers have made over the years by allowing their pulpits to become bully pulpits to work out and justify personal battles and problems in their own lives.

We all do this ... we're upset w/ someone or something and try to justify or project it on others ....

Yet, a minister has a duty to separate some of their personal strife when ministering to the Body ... and not take it "out on them".

Someone has said that this video is 11 days before her skirmish w/ her estranged husband ... She is obviously feeling turmoil over it ... and expressed an ungodly aggressive attitude which could be one factor to why she and her having problems.

If my memory is correct ... the day he hit her ... they had met ... to finalize some things ... he left the hotel room ... and she followed him ....

Mistake #1 ... if they had come to a conclusion ... why follow him ...???

Mistake #2 ... I have to assume that she must've been very provocative towards her husband for him to raise his hand ... this in no way ... justifies this cowardly and reprehensible action by him ... however, if she displayed aggression when preaching about this ... I have to think that in private she was out of control ... and aggressive. Nothing good could result in confronting him like this in public

True holiness ... God dwelling in us ... should be reflected at all times ... JB needs to find an altar and ask God to examine her and repent for her lack of temperance ... She must do whatever it takes to work out her marriage ... cause we're all watching.

Good post. :bliss

[J-Roc]

Are you serious? Her attitude was right? She demonstrated the thoughts of Christ to you? Using the Sopranos (mafia family) as a model for behavior is okay with you?

Brother you're sounding sane now....did you take a trip a little right of left? You'd make a great moderate :hypercoffee whooooohooooooooooooo

J/K, but I do agree with you here



Nothing new here on my part....I am being consistent with what I have always promoted on this forum....that is,that holiness and godliness are demonstrated by our actions and behavior. (i.e. the fruit that we bear)

I haven't followed the Juanita story and don't know much about it...but I am simply calling a spade a spade...and the attitude demonstrated in the video reeks....this has nothing to do with UC / liberal etc..... this is all about attitude. I've observed ugly attitudes in UCs as well where they have demonstrated an attitude of "spiritual" haughtiness and that reeks just as bad (even Ministers who are members of this forum)... so for me, it's not about UC / Liberal. :hypercoffee

[mfblume]

It seems to me, from after having seen the video the first time, that she is speaking at a women's conference about abused women. She is speaking to women who tolerate beatings and such abuse. She is telling these women to get out of those situations and not stand there to take them.

Maybe I am wrong, but that is what it looked like to me. And when I consider such situations and what some women take, it makes me spitting mad, too, I'll tell you! lol

To take segments from messages and not show the context of them, could make ANYONE'S messages seem carnal, etc.

Like I said, I saw worse coming from some of "our's", who were defended.

[redeemedcynic84]

The video is just another example of a feminist agenda in the pulpit.

really???

So women who's husbands left them for another woman should go around constantly begging him to come back to them???

Women should let men treat them like dirt because they have no self-respect, self-confidence, or self-esteem???

Women should yell and scream and get all crazy anytime they are in a disagreement with someone (specifically thier husband)???

[redeemedcynic84]

she promotes silent murder...

your entire post is made completely useless by the simple fact that you don't understand that she is using the Sopranos thing as an allegory, a parable... She is NOT in any way, shape, or form telling them to kill people and if you can't even realize that you really shouldn't be ripping on her for what she said in that video...

[redeemedcynic84]

It seems to me, from after having seen the video the first time, that she is speaking at a women's conference about abused women. She is speaking to women who tolerate beatings and such abuse. She is telling these women to get out of those situations and not stand there to take them.

Maybe I am wrong, but that is what it looked like to me. And when I consider such situations and what some women take, it makes me spitting mad, too, I'll tell you! lol

To take segments from messages and not show the context of them, could make ANYONE'S messages seem carnal, etc.

Like I said, I saw worse coming from some of "our's", who were defended.

The bolded part is EXACTLY how I took it, too... She wasn't talking to everyday women, she was talking to beaten down, abused women...

[mfblume]

The bolded part is EXACTLY how I took it, too... She wasn't talking to everyday women, she was talking to beaten down, abused women...

Right. It is plain to see if one is not looking for fault in her manner, really. lol

[philjones]

Right. It is plain to see if one is not looking for fault in her manner, really. lol

Bro. Blume,

I hear what you are saying regarding the context of the meeting but I am afraid the context of the meeting is dwarfed and overshadowed by the much more significant context of her personal life.

Surely you agree!:hypercoffee:hypercoffee

[MissBrattified]

Right. It is plain to see if one is not looking for fault in her manner, really. lol

I didn't watch it "looking for fault in her manner"....I didn't even find her manner all that offensive...I just found it to be...carnal. If a woman is going to LEAD and TEACH other women, she needs to hold herself to a higher standard, and give the women she is teaching an example of what they ought to be, not a reflection of what they already are, and what they already know.

She was presenting "Juanita Bynum", not "Jesus Christ."

Considering her personal problems, I can even say its understandable. But that doesn't mean she couldn't or shouldn't have done better.

[Fireside]

I didn't watch it "looking for fault in her manner"....I didn't even find her manner all that offensive...I just found it to be...carnal. If a woman is going to LEAD and TEACH other women, she needs to hold herself to a higher standard, and give the women she is teaching an example of what they ought to be, not a reflection of what they already are, and what they already know.

She was presenting "Juanita Bynum", not "Jesus Christ."

Considering her personal problems, I can even say its understandable. But that doesn't mean she couldn't or shouldn't have done better.

The content of what she said bothered me, not her tone of voice so much.

[redeemedcynic84]

Bro. Blume,

I hear what you are saying regarding the context of the meeting but I am afraid the context of the meeting is dwarfed and overshadowed by the much more significant context of her personal life.

Surely you agree!:hypercoffee:hypercoffee

so because she was having marital issues of her own and was about to get beat up by her husband in just a few short weeks she can't teach a seminar to abused/battered women???

[redeemedcynic84]

I didn't watch it "looking for fault in her manner"....I didn't even find her manner all that offensive...I just found it to be...carnal. If a woman is going to LEAD and TEACH other women, she needs to hold herself to a higher standard, and give the women she is teaching an example of what they ought to be, not a reflection of what they already are, and what they already know.

She was presenting "Juanita Bynum", not "Jesus Christ."

Considering her personal problems, I can even say its understandable. But that doesn't mean she couldn't or shouldn't have done better.

everyone could pretty much always do better... There is a massive gulf, however, between "could've down better" and "evil"...