View Full Version : (WOW) Letter Against Stephan Hoover & Other UPC pastors!
Here's the Letter- It's LONG! but I highlighted in Red where he addresses the issue of "wife swap" and also the Blackshere's who went on the Letterman show!
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written by a pastor from north Dakota!!
“Can two walk together, except they be agreed?” Amos 3:3
This very important question was asked not by the prophet but by the Lord. The Prophet was the medium that God used. (KJV)
The apostle Paul asked this question: “And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.” 2 Corinthians 6:16 (KJV)
My Question Is Where Is The Agreement?
In a recently published web article there was a call for UNITY to the ignoring of the things that are disagreed among us. I admire the desire of the author and wish that it were as simple as he makes it sound. However the Lord was the one to ask the Question ““Can two walk together, except they be agreed?” The author of the article has several valid points about the importance of being able to disagree and still have unity. There are things that all of us will never agree on and we can still have unity whether in the church or in the home. However there are some things that when they are transgressed will in and of themselves bring about disunity. It was the authors’ contention that the TV issue and the resolution should not bring about a disunity of the Body.
The issues involved in the TV Resolution carries with them grave consequences. Not least of those consequences is the division it has brought. A division not by those that are content, nay committed to maintaining the old paths, but by those not content to accept the decisions made on more than one occasion by the majority of the brethren, decisions dating back to less than ten years from the merger.
That really does sound like an ideal situation doesn’t it. However this issue can never be satisfied by just uniting on the doctrine ofActs 2:38 and the Oneness of God. The issues involved in the TV Resolution carries with them grave consequences. Not least of those consequences is the division it has brought. A division caused not by those that are content, nay but committed to maintaining the old paths, but by those not content to accept the decisions made on more than one occasion by the majority of the brethren, decisions dating back to less than ten years from the merger.
As has been often stated by those on both sides of the issue, “Television is not the Issue”.
Too be very honest I don’t believe the issue will be settled when the question of using and appearing on TV comes to a vote again no matter which way it goes or how often it is brought up.
Why, “Because Television is not the Issue”. Neither is the Issue Unity.
The real issue facing the United Pentecostal Church is the issue of Integrity and Honesty.
These are essential attributes which every man of God must possess and are not debatable nor can they be ignored. To debate, ignore or delete either one from our lives and ministry is to court disaster.
I want to believe that many of those that are pushing for this change are sincere and really believe that they want to do it for the right reasons. However, there are several things about this whole thing that troubles me and gives me reason to believe that possibly many of the honest people are being influenced by something other than the word of God.
Without a doubt one of the greatest influences is the spirit of the age in which we live. The Spirit of the age is a spirit of lawlessness and rebellion against authority. It is the spirit of self gratification and sensual desires. This spirit is described in Romans chapter one as well as the consequences of following such a spirit.
When Integrity and Honesty are compromised it creates a landslide effect from which there seems to be no stopping. I have recently revisited a couple of books written by a man that describes the loss of integrity and honesty out of his life. They are quite telling, the titles are “Integrity, How I Lost It, and My Journey Back” and “Fatal Conceit”, the author is Richard W. Dortch former president of PTL. In these books Mr. Dortch describes the path that he and those associated with him followed to their demise as leaders and how they lost their integrity. . I would recommend that everyone read these books to see where misguided ambitions can take a person.
CONTINUED.....
Not wanting to wear out the prophecy of our esteemed elder the Late David Gray I feel compelled again to quote from his words in the book Questions Pentecostals Ask by David Gray Volume 3 pages 142-146 under the title of Holiness:
"There is no question in my mind but that attempts will be made to alter our Articles of Faith on these important issues. And if they do not succeed, their hope will be to render them ineffective through simply ignoring them and permitting violations to continue unchecked; in other words, to not require compliance with them. To do this will surely spell the death knell of the United Pentecostal Church as a body upholding the holiness principles of the Word of God in the earth in this end time."
At first it was just a few that flaunted their pride and had television in violation of the manual. No one wanted to deal with them sometimes because of threats of law suits and other unscriptural and ungodly practices. From there it began to become more common in the church members and then the ministers homes until today I am told by those that circulate in much larger circles than I that it is as normal as anything else in if not the majority at least a large percentage of our ministers homes. And still the sin goes unchecked.
I want to emphasize the word SIN!
Since to behave in such a way and to do such a thing a minister with license or ordination papers with the UPCI must also lie. To those of us that feel compelled to follow the rules which we willing agreed to follow when we signed our application to say nothing of a biennial affirmation, that we signed, find ourselves asking the same question that God asked through the prophet Amos. “Can two walk together, except they be agreed?” Amos 3:3 We find ourselves asking the question how do we fulfill the commandment given us by the Apostle Paul in Ephesians 5:11 “And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them”, and still have unity. To me and too many others it seems impossible to accomplish such a feat. Scriptural unity comes from obeying scripture. The writer of Ecclesiastes makes it clear concerning vows. While we understand he was no doubt talking about money lets look at the word vow. Vow 1. An earnest promise to perform a specified act or behave in a certain manner, especially a solemn promise to live and act in accordance with the rules of a religious order: 2. A declaration or an assertion1
Brethren, let it be known this is a HOLINESS ISSUE even though we are constantly being told it isn’t. What makes it a holiness issue?
The reason I believe it is a Holiness Issue is because of the direction and involvement of such an action. Just a few short years ago we licensed the use of Video the guide lines were clear and concise. In just a short time the abuse of that privilege became overwhelming. Churches were showing videos that were totally out of the guidelines Youth Groups began using them for entertaining the youth and outreach. Today there is no difference between a large number of UPCI Churches and the rest of the world when it comes to entertainment of the youth. Again to quote an elder, the Late E.L Holley was often heard to say “Whatever entertains instructs.”
So now we have talent contest at national events and promote the sin of emulation. We have youth appearing on television with the most ungodly of people. Even in recent days a Pentecostal Family was involved with the TV’s “Wife Swap” program (with nearly 9 million weekly viewers). In another flagrant violation of the manual and another blow to the desired unity one of our pastors and his wife were guest on the “Dave Letterman Show”.
Here is a portion of an interview produced by Kent d Cury concerning the Wife Swap Program on his website 90&9.
“A majority of Apostolic viewers felt the producers were even-handed in their presentation, showing the emptiness of family life for the punk rockers and the regimentation within the Apostolic family, as well as the positives in both families.
Despite the pressures, Kristin was able to share her genuine love for God and a godly compassion in many scenes, though Steve was often portrayed as an inflexible patriarch protecting his children.”<!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]-->
<!--[endif]-->
We have churches hosting super bowl parties and installing TV’s in what used to be called a sanctuary. We have both preachers and saints attending Professional Organized Sporting Events.
How do we find a place of unity in this when it violates the laws of integrity and honesty?
Just recently a UPCI pastor was interviewed about his mission to make a science fiction movie about Joseph and God’s directive to produce 42 movies a year. While reading the interview I was impressed again that somewhere it becomes impossible to be identified with this type of thing and so we find another crack in the unity that should be among us.
All of this in direct opposition to the manual of the United Pentecostal Church
As a result of the TV and Media influence on the Leadership the advertising and theme of many of our youth conventions has all of the flavor of the world while the leadership strives to be relevant.
As I have been writing the above and during the course of receiving the information I could not help but ask the question, “If This Is Happening when we have The Prohibition Of These Things, What Will Happen If We License It?”
To again quote The Novelist Alexander Solzhenitsyn, “In keeping silent about evil, in burying it so deep within us that no sign of it appears on the surface, we are implanting it, and it will rise up a thousand fold in the future. When we neither punish nor reproach evildoers...we are ripping the foundations of justice from beneath new generations.” (Emphasis mine)
The cry for unity seems to emanate from a desire to not lose numbers even though God has never been impressed with large numbers just for the sake of numbers. No one should be foolish enough to say numbers don’t mean anything to God, they do. However numbers are not God’s first priority. To be honest I don’t think that unity is God’s first priority. God’s first priority is obedience.
God has often pared back the numbers of unified groups that were in disobedience.
Call it anything you want to but God said “Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God”.
James 4:4
CONTINED...
Recently at a large gathering of Pentecostals a noted pastor boasted about the money given to UPCI endeavors by the church he pastored. It was a rather impressive amount but it wasn’t the widows mite, she gave her living while the others gave of their abundance. Comparing apples for apples this church gave no more than anyone else. And it wasn’t theirs anyway. It was God’s, it was given by people making up a congregation for the very purposes he stated. It was in no way given (or at least I hope not) for the purpose of buying prestige or influence pedaling to influence voters to his way of thinking.
To make matters worse, after his rather lengthy and impassioned presentation he then stated he was for using television. To say I was not impressed would be an untruth. To say the impression was somewhat less than good would be an understatement.
Have we come to the place in the UPCI where money and position take precedence over integrity and humility? Does our position in society carry more weight in the affairs of the organization than it should? Again I would think it would be well to look at others that have thought that they could succeed by their own abilities and prominence.
As I have said many times the Issue is not Television. The issue is whether we are taking yet another step away from the simplicity that is in Christ. The statistics and information concerning the detrimental effects of moving into the Television arena have been and will be quoted and tossed around many times over the next few months. I am not going to get involved there at least not at this time since there are so many more qualified to do so.
I want to focus our attention on the bigger picture of purging out the old leaven from among us. My appeal is not for unity at any cost but my appeal is for brethren that have made up their minds to keep their integrity intact and live up to their commitments to unify. We all know that there will be differences of opinions on some subjects however let us not make the mistake of unifying with the world.
I believe it is time for the men and women of this organization to call for the leadership at every level to enforce the manual. I believe it is time for all of those committed to seeing the Whole Gospel preached to The Whole World to move forward to make sure it is a pure gospel not tainted with the world and its bright lights and cheap makeup.
The phrase the Whole Gospel to the Whole World was our theme for many years it has only been in recent years that the addition of the words by any means possible were added. I hope that the addition of that was not a precursor of the move to go on television.
The Whole Gospel to the Whole World must include Integrity and Honesty or it is not the whole Gospel. The Whole gospel is more than Acts 2:38, it is the Sermon on the Mount and the Apostles’ doctrine, it is the Old Testament Law of a just weight and measure, it is the manifestation of the spirit of holiness both in word and in action.
<!--[if !vml]-->As a movement we are fond of using the reference of building our house on the rock, a phrase taken from the words of Jesus in Matthew 7:24 “Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:.” These words were spoken at the conclusion of the “Sermon on the Mount” which is Jesus teaching about the way we need to live. To leave out Honesty, Integrity from the foundation of our house is to court disaster such as met the house built on the sand.<!--[endif]-->
LaVonne
09-26-2007, 12:21 PM
Thad, are the highlighted parts out of David Grey's book?
Thad, are the highlighted parts out of David Grey's book?
No, I did highlight his name for a point of interest but the colored highlighted portion is that part where he addresses "wife swap" and other incidents
LaVonne
09-26-2007, 12:26 PM
No, I did highlight his name for a point of interest but the colored highlighted portion is that part where he addresses "wife swap" and other incidents
Ok, that's what I thought.
Interesting.
Mr. Steinway
09-26-2007, 12:39 PM
It's amazing that he masks the real TV issue by saying it's about integrity and honesty, when it's REALLY about CONTROL!!!!
There is a lack of integrity and honesty on BOTH sides of the TV disagreement!
Only ONE side wants to control the other side! Think about it!
Digging4Truth
09-26-2007, 12:41 PM
It's amazing that he masks the real TV issue by saying it's about integrity and honesty, when it's REALLY about CONTROL!!!!
There is a lack of integrity and honesty on BOTH sides of the TV disagreement!
Only ONE side wants to control the other side! Think about it!
So true.
Integrity is defined as complete obedience without question or thought.
The Bereans were more noble because they refused to do just that.
lovemyjesus
09-26-2007, 12:41 PM
I've heard the name Blackshere. Where are they from?
dizzyde
09-26-2007, 12:45 PM
Where is this letter from, and do you know who the pastor is who wrote it? If you can't say on the forum, could you send it to me privately. I have a very strong reason for needing to know.
LaVonne
09-26-2007, 12:48 PM
It's amazing that he masks the real TV issue by saying it's about integrity and honesty, when it's REALLY about CONTROL!!!!
There is a lack of integrity and honesty on BOTH sides of the TV disagreement!
Only ONE side wants to control the other side! Think about it!
No kidding!!
chseeads
09-26-2007, 12:52 PM
I've heard the name Blackshere. Where are they from?
Alaska.
Where is this letter from, and do you know who the pastor is who wrote it? If you can't say on the forum, could you send it to me privately. I have a very strong reason for needing to know.
I'll post the link but i don't know if were allowed to say the name of the arthur or not. are we ??
It's amazing that he masks the real TV issue by saying it's about integrity and honesty, when it's REALLY about CONTROL!!!!
There is a lack of integrity and honesty on BOTH sides of the TV disagreement!
Only ONE side wants to control the other side! Think about it!
I disagree with this
lovemyjesus
09-26-2007, 12:55 PM
Alaska.
Who are you going to ask? HA HA
Thanks!
tp://conservativeapostolics.com/page2.html
links not working for some reason... ummm I don't know
LaVonne
09-26-2007, 12:58 PM
http://conservativeapostolics.com/page2.html
LaVonne
09-26-2007, 01:00 PM
thanks!
No problem.
However, I do not find the author's name on the article itself.
Esther
09-26-2007, 01:02 PM
Thad would his last name start with a "R"?
LaVonne
09-26-2007, 01:03 PM
Thad would his last name start with a "R"?
That's the only inital I could come up with...sorry, I'm not Thad~
Esther are we allowed to say ??? you're an admin so .....?
i was told the last name begins with "W"
DividedThigh
09-26-2007, 01:05 PM
hey thad tell me why you disagree with pianomans take on the tv deal, curious, dt:hypercoffee
dizzyde
09-26-2007, 01:11 PM
tp://conservativeapostolics.com/page2.html
links not working for some reason... ummm I don't know
http://conservativeapostolics.com/page2.html
Thanks!
chseeads
09-26-2007, 01:37 PM
Esther are we allowed to say ??? you're an admin so .....?
i was told the last name begins with "W"
Article tells where the author (or arthur) :D is from in ND, so all you have to do is look up who pastors there on the UPC webpage and voila.
HeavenlyOne
09-26-2007, 01:45 PM
It's amazing that he masks the real TV issue by saying it's about integrity and honesty, when it's REALLY about CONTROL!!!!
There is a lack of integrity and honesty on BOTH sides of the TV disagreement!
Only ONE side wants to control the other side! Think about it!
Absolutely. I haven't read all of the posts here, but why the assumptions about 'what will happen if this goes through' when the ALJC has allowed TV for years and they are still on the up and up?
Absolutely. I haven't read all of the posts here, but why the assumptions about 'what will happen if this goes through' when the ALJC has allowed TV for years and they are still on the up and up?
on the up & up as far as outward grooming ??
that is an interesting point- they do still look PC after all these years of have televisions
Mr. Steinway
09-26-2007, 01:46 PM
hey thad tell me why you disagree with pianomans take on the tv deal, curious, dt:hypercoffee
BUMP for Thad!
BUMP for Thad!
because i really don't believe that it's just about control. I dont believe this man just wants to control all of UPC. I think that HE thinks that the UPC will lose it's spiritual barrings and become like paul and Jan crouch if we go the way of TV. I think these guys are genuinly concerned- some of them anyways.
that's my take on it
Mr. Steinway
09-26-2007, 02:02 PM
because i really don't believe that it's just about control. I dont believe this man just wants to control all of UPC. I think that HE thinks that the UPC will lose it's spiritual barrings and become like paul and Jan crouch if we go the way of TV. I think these guys are genuinly concerned- some of them anyways.
that's my take on it
Putting the Apostolic message on TV is "worldliness"? Would you lose your spiritual barrings if you go to skidrow to give the drunks the saving message of Jesus Christ?
Why should they care what another church does to evangelize?
The "spiritual barrings" angle is a facade to mask the control issue!
Esther
09-26-2007, 02:12 PM
Esther are we allowed to say ??? you're an admin so .....?
i was told the last name begins with "W"
As for as I know you can use initals.
Putting the Apostolic message on TV is "worldliness"? Would you lose your spiritual barrings if you go to skidrow to give the drunks the saving message of Jesus Christ?
Why should they care what another church does to evangelize?
The "spiritual barrings" angle is a facade to mask the control issue!
I am just interputating what is in the minds of those who oppose this.
don't get mad at the messenger PM :killinme
HeavenlyOne
09-26-2007, 02:22 PM
on the up & up as far as outward grooming ??
that is an interesting point- they do still look PC after all these years of have televisions
Those against TV talk about how it will lead to people going further into the pit and such when other Apostolics have been watching TV for years......even those in the UPC.
Those against TV talk about how it will lead to people going further into the pit and such when other Apostolics have been watching TV for years......even those in the UPC.
not in the UPC you mean ALJC
revrandy
09-26-2007, 02:25 PM
Hey is this the North Dakota guy who spoke about "great" revival among the Jews??
LaVonne
09-26-2007, 02:26 PM
Hey is this the North Dakota guy who spoke about "great" revival among the Jews??
OOOOhhhh...the false one?
I think that was Nebraska, not ND....
I think that was Nebraska, not ND....
Right
"D.W" is the one writing all the letters
he wrote a SCATHING letter against guitarist Larry carter, john Moore, 1159, (the band) and against POA if you recall ! it was jaw dropping!!!
HeavenlyOne
09-26-2007, 02:30 PM
not in the UPC you mean ALJC
People in the UPC have also had TV for years, they just had to hide theirs. ;)
Subdued
09-26-2007, 02:31 PM
People in the UPC have also had TV for years, they just had to hide theirs. ;)
No they don't. They have "monitors." ;)
HeavenlyOne
09-26-2007, 02:33 PM
No they don't. They have "monitors." ;)
My bad!!! LOL!
Weird though. I'm accused of wearing pants (men's apparel) but I consider them 'bifurcated skirts'.
:D
People in the UPC have also had TV for years, they just had to hide theirs. ;)
That;s so mean
LaGirl
09-26-2007, 02:43 PM
i cant hide mine.....its too big! lol
HeavenlyOne
09-26-2007, 02:53 PM
That;s so mean
Thad, it's the truth and you know it......LOL!
I have the perfect UPC pastor's TV closet in my living room.
It was originally for a Murphy bed (the old-time beds that stored in the wall). I can put my 27" console TV in there and shut the door with ease! Even the plug-in and cable outlet are in there!
Subdued
09-26-2007, 03:14 PM
My bad!!! LOL!
Weird though. I'm accused of wearing pants (men's apparel) but I consider them 'bifurcated skirts'.
:D
Well, there ya go!
Fireside
09-26-2007, 03:21 PM
So true.
Integrity is defined as complete obedience without question or thought.
The Bereans were more noble because they refused to do just that.
Let's be clear about the Bereans--they received the Word with all readiness of mind, and searched the Scriptures for deeper validation of what they heard.
They were not skeptics with a jaundiced view of leadership, looking for ways to refute what they were taught.
ReformedDave
09-26-2007, 03:23 PM
Let's be clear about the Bereans--they received the Word with all readiness of mind, and searched the Scriptures for deeper validation of what they heard.
They were not skeptics with a jaundiced view of leadership, looking for ways to refute what they were taught.
Exactly. They were discerning, not contentious or rebellious.
Mr. Steinway
09-26-2007, 03:24 PM
I am just interputating what is in the minds of those who oppose this.
don't get mad at the messenger PM :killinme
How could I be angry with you, Thad! :D
Now Mrs. Pianoman, That's another story!!!!!! :killinme
Subdued
09-26-2007, 03:26 PM
Thad, it's the truth and you know it......LOL!
I have the perfect UPC pastor's TV closet in my living room.
It was originally for a Murphy bed (the old-time beds that stored in the wall). I can put my 27" console TV in there and shut the door with ease! Even the plug-in and cable outlet are in there!
And don't forget that they can watch TV shows on their monitors as long as it's through a DVD player.
RevDWW
09-26-2007, 03:32 PM
Let's be clear about the Bereans--they received the Word with all readiness of mind, and searched the Scriptures for deeper validation of what they heard.
They were not skeptics with a jaundiced view of leadership, looking for ways to refute what they were taught.
Perhaps some skeptics become skeptical because of what the see happen in "leadership". Someones experience with bad leadership can taint their view of all leadership. That would be another good reason for those in positions of leadership to be careful to be upright, just, and true. UPC leadership is not all, and not most by far, bad leadership. There are plenty of good leaders in the UPC and other organizations and most don't get any press and neither are they looking for it. But those that don't have the first clue about being a leader, yet hold a position, can muddy the waters for all and often gain too much attention.
Digging4Truth
09-26-2007, 03:33 PM
Let's be clear about the Bereans--they received the Word with all readiness of mind, and searched the Scriptures for deeper validation of what they heard.
They were not skeptics with a jaundiced view of leadership, looking for ways to refute what they were taught.
Exactly...
Fireside
09-26-2007, 03:54 PM
Exactly...
I'm glad we agree.
I've seen a lot of nasty attitudes justified under the term "Berean."
Mr. Steinway
09-26-2007, 04:30 PM
I'm glad we agree.
I've seen a lot of nasty attitudes justified under the term "Berean."
I can agree with that! :)
Hoovie
09-26-2007, 05:42 PM
Thad, I am not much in favor of TV, Football or even Birth Control!
So, some of the arguements in this letter make sense to me on a personal level.
But when I do watch a TV program (not often and usually on the net) I deem worthy of my time, I certainly do not want to be reprimanded because of the media type. I can get porn on my cell phone.
Have we forgotten Bro Urshan appearing on the Walter Martin show? Is it not totally and wholly an issue about content and the time consumed in viewing etc?
I think watching football in a sancturary is a bad idea. The problem is it did happen and likely will again whether or not TV is "legit".
As to Wife Swap - I doubt the author of that letter saw the Hoover/Meeks show. I am not saying that he should have or that he should even watch any TV. But here is what someone (Hirschorn Exectutive V P of VH1) who did watch it had to say...
THE CASE FOR REALITY TV
BY MICHAEL HIRSCHORN
“Value systems are smashed into each other, like atoms in an accelerator, on ABC’s Wife Swap, where the producers find the most extreme pairings possible: lesbian mommies with bigots, godless cosmopolites with Bible thumpers. On one February show, a Pentecostal family, the Hoovers, was paired with the family of a former pastor, Tony Meeks, who has turned from God to follow his rock-and-roll dreams (mom Tish rocks out as well). “I feel by being there,” Kristin Hoover said, “I was able to remind Tony that God still loves him and is not finished with him.” The episode took seriously the Hoovers’ commitment to homeschooling and their rejection of contemporary culture (a rejection not taken to the extreme of declining an invitation to appear on reality TV). Compare this with the tokenism of “born-again Christian” Harriet Hayes on NBC’s dramedy Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip. Harriet’s but a cipher, a rhetorical backboard against which ex-boyfriend Matt Albie can thwack his heathen wisecracks.”
hoover, what do you say about his comments about you going on wife swap?
you didn't address that one
Hoovie
09-26-2007, 05:50 PM
hoover, what do you say about his comments about you going on wife swap?
you didn't address that one
So now we have talent contest at national events and promote the sin of emulation. We have youth appearing on television with the most ungodly of people. Even in recent days a Pentecostal Family was involved with the TV’s “Wife Swap” program (with nearly 9 million weekly viewers). In another flagrant violation of the manual and another blow to the desired unity one of our pastors and his wife were guest on the “Dave Letterman Show”.
Here is a portion of an interview produced by Kent d Cury concerning the Wife Swap Program on his website 90&9.
“A majority of Apostolic viewers felt the producers were even-handed in their presentation, showing the emptiness of family life for the punk rockers and the regimentation within the Apostolic family, as well as the positives in both families.
Despite the pressures, Kristin was able to share her genuine love for God and a godly compassion in many scenes, though Steve was often portrayed as an inflexible patriarch protecting his children.”
The Wife Swap comments are accurate. Unless the author is aluding something when have says "In another flagrant violation of the manual" -- The manual does not apply to me - I don't know that I even have one.
So now we have talent contest at national events and promote the sin of emulation. We have youth appearing on television with the most ungodly of people. Even in recent days a Pentecostal Family was involved with the TV’s “Wife Swap” program (with nearly 9 million weekly viewers). In another flagrant violation of the manual and another blow to the desired unity one of our pastors and his wife were guest on the “Dave Letterman Show”.
Here is a portion of an interview produced by Kent d Cury concerning the Wife Swap Program on his website 90&9.
“A majority of Apostolic viewers felt the producers were even-handed in their presentation, showing the emptiness of family life for the punk rockers and the regimentation within the Apostolic family, as well as the positives in both families.
Despite the pressures, Kristin was able to share her genuine love for God and a godly compassion in many scenes, though Steve was often portrayed as an inflexible patriarch protecting his children.”
The Wife Swap comments are accurate. Unless the author is aluding something when have says "In another flagrant violation of the manual" -- The manual does not apply to me - I don't know that I even have one.
well you must be mighty important for a dist. Supt to include you and your happenings in his letter don't you think??:killinme
I mean.... what is your take on this?? what is comment on the fact that HE is upset over it ??? does he have just cause or not?? ask your wife too thanks
dizzyde
09-26-2007, 05:56 PM
[QUOTE=Stephen Hoover;252053]Thad, I am not much in favor of TV, Football or even Birth Control!
So, some of the arguements in this letter make sense to me on a personal level.
But when I do watch a TV program (not often and usually on the net) I deem worthy of my time, I certainly do not want to be reprimanded because of the media type. I can get porn on my cell phone.
Which is exactly why, in my opinion, TV is moot issue in this day & age. Anyone who has high-speed internet access has TV and a whole lot worse. It comes down to accountability, and if our churches don't realize this, and start addressing that issue, they will have a whole lot more to worry about than just TV. And probably already do. I am not for TV (necessarily) nor am I trying to promote it, but it is just a medium, and we as pentecostals (yes, that is what I am, for lack of a more definitive term) have got to grow up, and stop having to be led by the hand every hour of the day. :2cents
[QUOTE=Stephen Hoover;252053]Thad, I am not much in favor of TV, Football or even Birth Control!
So, some of the arguements in this letter make sense to me on a personal level.
But when I do watch a TV program (not often and usually on the net) I deem worthy of my time, I certainly do not want to be reprimanded because of the media type. I can get porn on my cell phone.
Which is exactly why, in my opinion, TV is moot issue in this day & age. Anyone who has high-speed internet access has TV and a whole lot worse. It comes down to accountability, and if our churches don't realize this, and start addressing that issue, they will have a whole lot more to worry about than just TV. And probably already do. I am not for TV (necessarily) nor am I trying to promote it, but it is just a medium, and we as pentecostals (yes, that is what I am, for lack of a more definitive term) have got to grow up, and stop having to be led by the hand every hour of the day. :2cents
I asked a Very conservative pastor on this forum this Question Yesterday and HE REFUSED TO ANSWER ME!!!!!
again i say, the computers they are selling now at costco are 30 in screens! they are not making them that big for nothing!! the computer and TV is Merging HELLO!!!!! what do we do then? Ban computers??? I'm not trying to trap anyone. I'm just asking for honesty
dizzyde
09-26-2007, 06:04 PM
[QUOTE=dizzyde;252064]
I asked a Very conservative pastor on this forum this Question Yesterday and HE REFUSED TO ANSWER ME!!!!!
again i say, the computers they are selling now at costco are 30 in screens! they are not making them that big for nothing!! the computer and TV is Merging HELLO!!!!! what do we do then? Ban computers??? I'm not trying to trap anyone. I'm just asking for honesty
The reason that the hard-liners and old-timers don't want to address this is because it is scary. (IN my opinion) I totally sympathize with them, it is a very scary time for a Pentecostal to be living in. I go through it with my dad, but burying our heads in the sand isn't going to make it go away.
[QUOTE=Thad;252069]
The reason that the hard-liners and old-timers don't want to address this is because it is scary. (IN my opinion) I totally sympathize with them, it is a very scary time for a Pentecostal to be living in. I go through it with my dad, but burying our heads in the sand isn't going to make it go away.
you have summed up it perfectly!!!
that is it right there 400%
Hoovie
09-26-2007, 06:09 PM
well you must be mighty important for a dist. Supt to include you and your happenings in his letter don't you think??:killinme
I mean.... what is your take on this?? what is comment on the fact that HE is upset over it ??? does he have just cause or not?? ask your wife too thanks
HA! It's not our importance of course, but the fact that we tasted the forbidden fruit!
My fine wife is at General Conference.
dizzyde
09-26-2007, 06:10 PM
[QUOTE=dizzyde;252072]
you have summed up it perfectly!!!
that is it right there 400%
Well, Thanks!!! :highfive
Hoovie
09-26-2007, 06:10 PM
[QUOTE=dizzyde;252072]
you have summed up it perfectly!!!
that is it right there 400%
OK this quoting system is broke! We have thad agreeing with himself 400% :killinme:killinme:killinme
HA! It's not our importance of course, but the fact that we tasted the forbidden fruit!
My fine wife is at General Conference.
come on steve! come on out with it !!! you're holding out on me !!!!!
[QUOTE=Thad;252078]
OK this quoting system is broke! We have thad agreeing with himself 400% :killinme:killinme:killinme
no i was agreeing with Ms dizzyD
Hoovie
09-26-2007, 06:14 PM
come on steve! come on out with it !!! you're holding out on me !!!!!
yer funny!
yer funny!
whatever i'm disappointed in you
Hoovie
09-26-2007, 06:32 PM
whatever i'm disappointed in you
I can't imagine what response you expected. There was really no inaccuracies about the Hoover's and their participation on the show...
You wouldn't happen to just be wanting to "stir the pot" now would you?????:hypercoffee
Praxeas
09-26-2007, 11:31 PM
Apparently even when the UPC started and they said "United" the realized we did not and would not agree on EVERYTHING..who does agree on everything? Some of the most UC pastors think other UC pastors are nuts for some of their "standards"
What part of "not contending for our differences to the disunity of the body" did those UPC framers not understand?
It seems the author's manual is his bible. The manual is infallable. Even with its contradictions. The author needs to chuck the honesty and integrity issue out the window since his precioussss manual is contradicitory with internet and television. Someone needs to tell the author that part of honesty and integrity means admitting one is wrong.
It would take the author of that letter 10 years to witness toh as many people as the Hoovers witnessed to in 60 minutes. I would rather be obedient to God and appear on a television show than have the approval of my peers and miss the opportunity.
So now we have talent contest at national events and promote the sin of emulation. We have youth appearing on television with the most ungodly of people. Even in recent days a Pentecostal Family was involved with the TV’s “Wife Swap” program (with nearly 9 million weekly viewers). In another flagrant violation of the manual and another blow to the desired unity one of our pastors and his wife were guest on the “Dave Letterman Show”.
Here is a portion of an interview produced by Kent d Cury concerning the Wife Swap Program on his website 90&9.
“A majority of Apostolic viewers felt the producers were even-handed in their presentation, showing the emptiness of family life for the punk rockers and the regimentation within the Apostolic family, as well as the positives in both families.
Despite the pressures, Kristin was able to share her genuine love for God and a godly compassion in many scenes, though Steve was often portrayed as an inflexible patriarch protecting his children.”
The Wife Swap comments are accurate. Unless the author is aluding something when have says "In another flagrant violation of the manual" -- The manual does not apply to me - I don't know that I even have one.
Fireside
09-27-2007, 05:38 AM
Perhaps some skeptics become skeptical because of what the see happen in "leadership". Someones experience with bad leadership can taint their view of all leadership. That would be another good reason for those in positions of leadership to be careful to be upright, just, and true. UPC leadership is not all, and not most by far, bad leadership. There are plenty of good leaders in the UPC and other organizations and most don't get any press and neither are they looking for it. But those that don't have the first clue about being a leader, yet hold a position, can muddy the waters for all and often gain too much attention.
All of us have seen bad leadership.
Not all of us let it turn us bitter.
RevDWW
09-27-2007, 05:41 AM
All of us have seen bad leadership.
Not all of us let it turn us bitter.
That, my friend, is the key! We can learn from it and purpose not to emulate it and thus become better not bitter.
I suppose we could say that bad leadership is in the eye of the beholder, unless you have two or three witness'.......:killinme
Enjoying GC so far?
Fireside
09-27-2007, 06:18 AM
That, my friend, is the key! We can learn from it and purpose not to emulate it and thus become better not bitter.
I suppose we could say that bad leadership is in the eye of the beholder, unless you have two or three witness'.......:killinme
Enjoying GC so far?
So far, yes.
Today is when the unenjoyable part starts. :)
aquestioninggirl
09-27-2007, 08:12 AM
HA! It's not our importance of course, but the fact that we tasted the forbidden fruit!
My fine wife is at General Conference.
I wonder how many will be asking for her autograph!!! LOL!!!!
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