PDA

View Full Version : Book that will Shake you up!


Sherri
03-02-2007, 09:45 PM
I just finished Rolland and Heidi Baker's book "Always Enough" about their years of missions work in Mozambique, one of the poorest countries in the world. The miracles they've seen are amazing and undeniable. They live to lay down their lives for God, serving in the garbage dumps and villages in the bush where no white men have ever been.

One thing that would blow your mind is reading about their baptisms. She definitely says that they baptize in the name of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit, but they pray over them beforehand (in the water) in the name of Jesus and they are set free from demons and all kinds of oppression before they go under water. Several of them are thrashed about by demonic powers, especially those that are leaving prostitution. At the name of Jesus, they are set free. Almost all of them come up out of the water speaking in tongues, and they've never been taught about it. God is setting them free by the thousands!

There is no way that I would say these precious people are not saved just because they don't understand going under in the name of Jesus. I would be ashamed to stand beside Heidi and Rolland Baker on Judgment Day.

What do you think???

Coonskinner
03-02-2007, 10:07 PM
Let God be true and every man a liar.

I admire these folks for their sacrifice, but "neither is their salvation in any other..."

Sherri
03-02-2007, 10:15 PM
Let God be true and every man a liar.

I admire these folks for their sacrifice, but "neither is their salvation in any other..."
Do you think by praying over them in the water in the name of Jesus, that they are essentially baptized in his name? Just curious.

Scott Hutchinson
03-02-2007, 10:25 PM
I would like to this read this book.

Praxeas
03-02-2007, 10:28 PM
Do you think by praying over them in the water in the name of Jesus, that they are essentially baptized in his name? Just curious.
Some people might say that. In fact perhaps what is more important is that THEY are being baptized "in Jesus name" as opposed to WHO was baptising them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost...in other words by their faith in Jesus name during baptism they were baptized in jesus name. I think that is how some believe.

I'd still show them baptism in Jesus name from Acts, but Im not going to say they are lost either

Sherri
03-02-2007, 10:53 PM
Some people might say that. In fact perhaps what is more important is that THEY are being baptized "in Jesus name" as opposed to WHO was baptising them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost...in other words by their faith in Jesus name during baptism they were baptized in jesus name. I think that is how some believe.

I'd still show them baptism in Jesus name from Acts, but Im not going to say they are lost either
Well, I definitely know that Heidi teaches about the power in Jesus' name. I'm sure she's just never heard about the differences in baptism. She has seen the blind healed, the deaf healed, five raised from the dead in their services, etc. etc. I sure can't criticize her. I guess this is one of those things that God will have to sort out.

Felicity
03-02-2007, 11:10 PM
We had a couple who were involved with the Gideons who have made trips to Africa and they told some amazing stories -- including casting demons out of people .

They're Wesleyan.

Ronzo
03-02-2007, 11:14 PM
We had a couple who were involved with the Gideons who have made trips to Africa and they told some amazing stories -- including casting demons out of people .

They're Wesleyan.

Impossible. They don't have "The TRUTH".




















:tease

Felicity
03-02-2007, 11:19 PM
Impossible. They don't have "The TRUTH".

:teaseWhat causes the demons to go?

Michael The Disciple
03-02-2007, 11:21 PM
Many years ago I met Pastor (considered an Apostle by them) Don Spiers of the Ceylon Pentecostal Mission. I was fellowshipping with their group at the time. They are strong Trinitarians and I told him I had been baptized in Jesus name.

He had been preaching world wide for many years at this time. He said he had seen many people healed of various diseases including Cancer at their baptism in the Father, Son, and Spirit.

Yet he said he had also seen people healed at baptism in Jesus name. He said he was drawn toward Oneness for a while but finally rejected it for the Trinity.

My thinking is that God wonderfully grants blessings and his power to people who repent and believe in him. Yet he continuesto guide them into all truth. Hey thats the way he dealt with ME so its easy to believe.

Ronzo
03-02-2007, 11:23 PM
What causes the demons to go?
fairy dust...



:killinme




(I was being facetious, Felicity)

Felicity
03-02-2007, 11:25 PM
fairy dust...



:killinme




(I was being facetious, Felicity) LOL! I know you were. But I wasn't. I was being serious. :)

Ronzo
03-02-2007, 11:27 PM
LOL! I know you were. But I wasn't. I was being serious. :)

They got tired of living in those people and moved to a nicer home... on their own. Just so happened that the time they decided to leave coincided with the time those Weslyans told them to get lost.

It was all a coinkidink.

;)

rrford
03-02-2007, 11:28 PM
Faith is not bound by doctrinal position.





Salvation is, though.

Hoovie
03-02-2007, 11:28 PM
I just finished Rolland and Heidi Baker's book "Always Enough" about their years of missions work in Mozambique, one of the poorest countries in the world. The miracles they've seen are amazing and undeniable. They live to lay down their lives for God, serving in the garbage dumps and villages in the bush where no white men have ever been.

One thing that would blow your mind is reading about their baptisms. She definitely says that they baptize in the name of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit, but they pray over them beforehand (in the water) in the name of Jesus and they are set free from demons and all kinds of oppression before they go under water. Several of them are thrashed about by demonic powers, especially those that are leaving prostitution. At the name of Jesus, they are set free. Almost all of them come up out of the water speaking in tongues, and they've never been taught about it. God is setting them free by the thousands!

There is no way that I would say these precious people are not saved just because they don't understand going under in the name of Jesus. I would be ashamed to stand beside Heidi and Rolland Baker on Judgment Day.

What do you think???


I think it's important that we focus less on others doing a work in Christ's name, and more on the majority who is unchurched and non practicing Christians. We we did this, our faith and distinctions may be more appealing to other groups.

Ronzo
03-02-2007, 11:29 PM
Faith is not bound by doctrinal position.





Salvation is, though.


ok, boss.

rrford
03-02-2007, 11:32 PM
ok, boss.

Just stating what the Word does, Bro.

Remember those who stood before Him and laid claim to performing the miraculous in His name yet He cast them out? Sounds to me like their faith and miracles did not give them a right to eternity in heaven.

Ronzo
03-02-2007, 11:34 PM
Just stating what the Word does, Bro.

Remember those who stood before Him and laid claim to performing the miraculous in His name yet He cast them out? Sounds to me like their faith and miracles did not give them a right to eternity in heaven.
The same could have been said for those that were claiming to be "doctrinally sound"...

Anyway... I'm not looking to get into a fight.

I really don't have it in me anymore. I'm tired of it.


You're the boss. You win.

Felicity
03-02-2007, 11:35 PM
There's no way we'd have unconverted sinners speaking to our congregation.

Ronzo
03-02-2007, 11:38 PM
There's no way we'd have unconverted sinners speaking to our congregation.

Then you better make sure your congregation holes up in their homes and keeps the TV, radio, newspapers, and internet off for good.

;)

rrford
03-02-2007, 11:38 PM
The same could have been said for those that were claiming to be "doctrinally sound"...

Anyway... I'm not looking to get into a fight.

I really don't have it in me anymore. I'm tired of it.


You're the boss. You win.

I didn't realize it was a contest. Never viewed salvation or scripture in that light. And your point about "doctrinally sound" proves my point further.

It ain't about winning and losing. It's about getting it right and enduring to the end.

Felicity
03-02-2007, 11:40 PM
Then you better make sure your congregation holes up in their homes and keeps the TV, radio, newspapers, and internet off for good.

;) You know what I mean. :ranting

LOL.

Ronzo
03-02-2007, 11:42 PM
You know what I mean. :ranting

LOL.
Yeah, but it wouldn't have made me laugh as much if I left it alone...

cut me some slack, sis. :D

Ronzo
03-02-2007, 11:42 PM
I didn't realize it was a contest. Never viewed salvation or scripture in that light. And your point about "doctrinally sound" proves my point further.

It ain't about winning and losing. It's about getting it right and enduring to the end.
To some of your friends, it's all about winning an argument...

I'm not interested in that... anymore. It tires me out.

rrford
03-02-2007, 11:45 PM
To some of your friends, it's all about winning an argument...

I'm not interested in that... anymore. It tires me out.

I have no interest in arguing. I do have great interest in making sure I get it right and never let my being blessed and used by God fool me into thinking I am right with God.

stmatthew
03-03-2007, 05:47 PM
Pro 16:25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof [are] the ways of death.

Sherri
03-03-2007, 08:32 PM
Pro 16:25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof [are] the ways of death.
I understand this, Matt, but I tend to think this would fit more for ministers (or just saints) who play a religious game, live carnally, and still have anointings in their lives, and they think they are ok with God. I can't relate this scripture to someone like Rolland and Heidi Baker who spend hours and hours in prayer and intercession for their mission field and see so many people come to Jesus! Sorry, but I just don't see it.

I can't see why God would fill people with His spirit, deliver them from all kinds of decadent lifestyles including witchcraft, heal their diseases and then let them be lost. Just doesn't make sense!

stmatthew
03-03-2007, 10:48 PM
I understand this, Matt, but I tend to think this would fit more for ministers (or just saints) who play a religious game, live carnally, and still have anointings in their lives, and they think they are ok with God. I can't relate this scripture to someone like Rolland and Heidi Baker who spend hours and hours in prayer and intercession for their mission field and see so many people come to Jesus! Sorry, but I just don't see it.

I can't see why God would fill people with His spirit, deliver them from all kinds of decadent lifestyles including witchcraft, heal their diseases and then let them be lost. Just doesn't make sense!

I do not doubt their repentance is real, and I don't doubt their deliverance is real. And God fills folks with his Spirit to lead them. So I am not discounting what they have received of God. But of course I am one of those 3 stepper, Jesus name baptism folks, so while I am grateful for what God has done, I believe there is more light that they need in order to be saved.