**** News Flash *** News Flash****

[Thad]

Did you hear that the UPC would not let wealthy businessman David Ramsey advertise in the Pentecostal Hearld NOR was he allowed to have a Booth at General Conference because he had a Beard ?????


your opinons and more information would be welcomed

[Nahum]

Who cares?

[SDG]

Did you hear that the UPC would not let wealthy businessman David Ramsey advertise in the Pentecostal Hearld NOR was he allowed to have a Booth at General Conference because he had a Beard ?????


your opinons and more information would be welcomed

Didn't Clint Brown have a booth ... doesn't he have facial hair?

[Mr. Steinway]

Did you hear that the UPC would not let wealthy businessman David Ramsey advertise in the Pentecostal Hearld NOR was he allowed to have a Booth at General Conference because he had a Beard ?????


your opinons and more information would be welcomed
This sounds like hogwash!!!!

I know Dave, and he has better things to do than advertise in the Herald or have a booth at GC!!! He would have his employees man the booth!

[tamor]

This sounds like hogwash!!!!

I know Dave, and he has better things to do than advertise in the Herald or have a booth at GC!!! He would have his employees man the booth!

Doesn't he go to CC, Pianoman?

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Who is David Ramsey and why do we care if he is bearded or not?

There are limited ads in the Herald.

Besides, who reads ads in the Herald anyway?

[Thadisdaman]

That is becaue the UPCI wants to stay in debt! If you ever get a chance to take the Financial Peace university do it, it is awesome. If you are a pastor it would be great for your church. I offered it to my church and it was a great community outreach tool. Dave is Awesome

[Thad]

This sounds like hogwash!!!!

I know Dave, and he has better things to do than advertise in the Herald or have a booth at GC!!! He would have his employees man the booth!


It is not hogwash PM. someone that works for ..... told me


how's he relationship w/ CC ????????????????????????????????

[Mr. Steinway]

Doesn't he go to CC, Pianoman?
He was the Youth Leader at Christ Church in his younger days! He and his family have been baptised in Jesus name! He attended CC for many years before getting sideways with Stan Mitchell when he was assistant pastor.

Even though Stan Mitchell was eventually fired and started his own church, Dave has to this day not returned to CC. Dave now attends a church called Bible Fellowship in Nashville.

He still comes with his family to friend get-togethers! :)

[Mr. Steinway]

It is not hogwash PM. someone that works for ..... told me


how's he relationship w/ CC ????????????????????????????????
I have ways of finding out if this is true! :)

[Mr. Steinway]

Who is David Ramsey and why do we care if he is bearded or not?

There are limited ads in the Herald.

Besides, who reads ads in the Herald anyway?

As JCM Alumni, we were not allowed to advertise the JCM Alumni DVD in the Herald. The reason was because ex-UPCers were prominantly seen on the video!

[chaotic_resolve]

CB had a booth at GC?

[Thad]

I have ways of finding out if this is true! :)


someone is going to come on and verify this - you'll see

[Thad]

As JCM Alumni, we were not allowed to advertise the JCM Alumni DVD in the Herald. The reason was because ex-UPCers were prominantly seen on the video!



you cannot be serious?? why would this matter ??

[SDG]

As JCM Alumni, we were not allowed to advertise the JCM Alumni DVD in the Herald. The reason was because ex-UPCers were prominantly seen on the video!

My goodness.

[James Griffin]

That is becaue the UPCI wants to stay in debt! If you ever get a chance to take the Financial Peace university do it, it is awesome. If you are a pastor it would be great for your church. I offered it to my church and it was a great community outreach tool. Dave is Awesome

I taught the FPU at our church, very excellent course

[James Griffin]

As JCM Alumni, we were not allowed to advertise the JCM Alumni DVD in the Herald. The reason was because ex-UPCers were prominantly seen on the video!

What year JCM? 1975 here. :driving

[Mr. Steinway]

someone is going to come on and verify this - you'll see
I'd rather hear it from the horse's mouth! :)

[Mr. Steinway]

What year JCM? 1975 here. :driving

1974!

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

I'd rather hear it from the horse's mouth! :)

Thad is "back in the saddle again!"

[Thad]

I'd rather hear it from the horse's mouth! :)


I'd rather not comment further until this person post but i am right about it !! you might as well accept it

[AtlantaBishop]

Did Clint have a booth? I cannot believe that!

[Nahum]

He did not have a booth.

[James Griffin]

1974!

Piano 1975 was the first year of JCM, 1974 it was still PBI I believe...

:shhh

But if you were there in 75 as well we probably have a lot of mutual acquant.

[Thad]

He did not have a booth.


no he didnt because he was declined a booth

[Thad]

Did Clint have a booth? I cannot believe that!



NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

no he didnt because he was declined a booth

He had a commanding presense in the trashcan markets!

[AtlantaBishop]

As JCM Alumni, we were not allowed to advertise the JCM Alumni DVD in the Herald. The reason was because ex-UPCers were prominantly seen on the video!

Hey Pianoman - I want a copy of that - is that the one where Lanny and Dave were singing and Marietta came out singing? I would LOVE to have it! How can I get a copy? I heard they could not put it out because of copy write infringements or something - too many artist on it had contracts with music companies that would not allow them to distribute it. Is that true?
MAN - I WANT ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mr. Steinway]

Hey Pianoman - I want a copy of that - is that the one where Lanny and Dave were singing and Marietta came out singing? I would LOVE to have it! How can I get a copy? I heard they could not put it out because of copy write infringements or something - too many artist on it had contracts with music companies that would not allow them to distribute it. Is that true?
MAN - I WANT ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Click on this: JCM Alumni Reunion DVD (http://jcmalumni.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=28&osCsid=b4782231e3cbb6f1d2a9e45edc6b0089)

There was a lawsuit with the so-called production company. We had no problems with the various artists. :)

[AtlantaBishop]

Click on this: JCM Alumni Reunion DVD (http://jcmalumni.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=28&osCsid=b4782231e3cbb6f1d2a9e45edc6b0089)

There was a lawsuit with the so-called production company. We had no problems with the various artists. :)

Thanks so much - I appreciate it!

[Mr. Steinway]

Piano 1975 was the first year of JCM, 1974 it was still PBI I believe...

:shhh

But if you were there in 75 as well we probably have a lot of mutual acquant.

I'll have to look at my yearbooks from '75 and '76!

I'm sure I'll have a "V-8" moment as soon as I see your JCM pic! :)

I hung around the music majors at the time, which were James Shockly, Dan Dean, David Graham, and others!

[James Griffin]

figured as much from the name.:shhh Another music major...

I was only there 75-76. Theology. Wrote first front page for JCM newspaper.

PM if you like.

[James Griffin]

Humming its a small world after all.:killinme

[Mr. Steinway]

figured as much from the name.:shhh Another music major...

I was only there 75-76. Theology. Wrote first front page for JCM newspaper.

PM if you like.

Yes!! You and Tim Landry did a great job with the paper! :)

TimLan posts here ocassionally! :)

[James Griffin]

Yes!! You and Tim Landry did a great job with the paper! :)

TimLan posts here ocassionally! :)

Really? Still remember his lame joke in chapel about Red China LOL

Great to reconnect.

[True Believer]

That is becaue the UPCI wants to stay in debt! If you ever get a chance to take the Financial Peace university do it, it is awesome. If you are a pastor it would be great for your church. I offered it to my church and it was a great community outreach tool. Dave is Awesome


:iagree He is great and makes a lot of sense. I agree he is awesome!

[SDG]

JG ... I didn't know you attended JCM ... there's quite a handful of alums here that have, also.

[rgcraig]

Yes!! You and Tim Landry did a great job with the paper! :)

TimLan posts here ocassionally! :)

1976 - 1978 and I worked with Tim on the newpaper!

[stmatthew]

1976 - 1978 and I worked with Tim on the newpaper!


Looks like we have the makings of a family reunion here. :hug3

[James Griffin]

JG ... I didn't know you attended JCM ... there's quite a handful of alums here that have, also.

so many JG(s) written about in here. :killinme

If me then yes 4th gen apostolic, heard Andrew Urshan preach as a child, Apopka church BEFORE Pat or Mike Williams, then JCM 1975-76. Had UPC license at one time. All family still in UPC. So still feel VERY connected. Have nothing but respect for the VAST majority.

[lisafitzh2o]

so many JG(s) written about in here. :killinme

If me then yes 4th gen apostolic, heard Andrew Urshan preach as a child, Apopka church BEFORE Pat or Mike Williams, then JCM 1975-76. Had UPC license at one time. All family still in UPC. So still feel VERY connected. Have nothing but respect for the VAST majority.

Are you any relation to the Griffins currently attending the Apopka church?

[James Griffin]

1976 - 1978 and I worked with Tim on the newpaper!

Tim helped edit. (hard work) But Mary Wallace was great

I was just privileged to write the front page article on the first ever edition.... These Who Have Turned the World Upside Down.

[James Griffin]

Are you any relation to the Griffins currently attending the Apopka church?

Griffin Hall at Apopka is named after my father. Related by blood or marriage to half the church. Including for a time Mike Williams. Only one in my family to ever move away.

[lisafitzh2o]

Griffin Hall at Apopka is named after my father. Related by blood or marriage to half the church. Including for a time Mike Williams. Only one in my family to ever move away.

Holy Moses!!! It really IS a small world!

[timlan2057]

Jim Griffin, I just remember beating your butt in ping-pong ... chess ... tiddly-winks ... etc, etc, etc.

And talk about LAME ... that was you screaming like a banshee when I said "holler when you're ready" when we were warming up before a ping-pong game.

Yep ... beating you down in ping-pong is one of my pleasant JCM memories ... along with driving Kirby Higginbotham's old bomb Chevy Biscayne. :killinme


















Uh ... that of course was all tongue-in-cheek, JG.

Good to hear from you again.

How's Rick?

[James Griffin]

Jim Griffin, I just remember beating your butt in ping-pong ... chess ... tiddly-winks ... etc, etc, etc.



Good to hear from you again.

How's Rick?

mumbling to self, something about engaging in battle of wits with an unarmed person. LOL


Tim, never would have recognized yah, course I kinda look like Santa now myself. I will accept the tiddly-winks because of my Red China crack, however I was and am master of the chess board.

PM me sometime, let me know what cha been up do man!!!!

Rick is good, preaches jail ministry in Apopka, (along with Kirby). Rick had a couple get Holy Ghost week or so ago.

[James Griffin]

Holy Moses!!! It really IS a small world!

what is your connection with Apopka if I may ask?

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Looks like we have the makings of a family reunion here. :hug3

And they say NOTHING ever comes good from The Tub!

:ernie

[crakjak]

Did you hear that the UPC would not let wealthy businessman David Ramsey advertise in the Pentecostal Hearld NOR was he allowed to have a Booth at General Conference because he had a Beard ?????


your opinons and more information would be welcomed

Now that is about as stupid as it gets. The message that DR teaches about stewardship, living below our means, and debt-free is a most liberating message.

How many have taken his course, "Financial Peace University? I taught it at our church 3 years ago, everyone in America needs this kind of training. It is on DVD and is fun to do.

What Dave does helps folks that are already in deep do do, most financial advisers just want to help those who have big buck to invest.

[vrblackwell]

DR was going to have a booth at GC. However, becuase he was not allowed to run an add in the Herald he changed his mind. There were no hard feelings.

The Herald does have rules about beards. However, they also cannot run certain types of adds due to postal rates. The postal rate rules are set by the post office. If those rules are broken they could lose low shipping rates.

[Thad]

DR was going to have a booth at GC. However, becuase he was not allowed to run an add in the Herald he changed his mind. There were no hard feelings.

The Herald does have rules about beards. However, they also cannot run certain types of adds due to postal rates. The postal rate rules are set by the post office. If those rules are broken they could lose low shipping rates.


And there you have it Pianoman!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


see i told you so !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[slave4him]

Did you hear that the UPC would not let wealthy businessman David Ramsey advertise in the Pentecostal Hearld NOR was he allowed to have a Booth at General Conference because he had a Beard ?????


your opinons and more information would be welcomed

I have a hard time believing this. Dave Ramsey has been in many of our churches. He attends Christ Church Nashville Tn or atleast use to. This is a former UPC church.

[CC1]

I have a hard time believing this. Dave Ramsey has been in many of our churches. He attends Christ Church Nashville Tn or atleast use to. This is a former UPC church.

Dave Ramsey has not attended Christ Church Nashville for several years now but last fall he spoke at the church one Sunday kicking off an upcoming video session of his Financial Peace series that the church did on Wednesday nights.

[Steve Epley]

Dave Ramsey has not attended Christ Church Nashville for several years now but last fall he spoke at the church one Sunday kicking off an upcoming video session of his Financial Peace series that the church did on Wednesday nights.

Does he have UPC roots?

[CC1]

Does he have UPC roots?

No. He was a neighbor of the Hardwicks growing up and knew the Pastors sons who are about his age I think.

I am trying to remember his testimony. If I remember right he did not get into church until he was in a huge life crisis. He was big into real estate and ended up losing it all.

He got in church at Christ Church Nashville and then turned his life around by getting out of debt and becoming a believer in no credit card debt, etc.

Eventually that became Financial Peace University, his books, and his radio show.

He left CC around the time of Stan Mitchell's troubles. I have been told he was a huge fan of Dan Scott during Dan's original ten year stint as Associate Pastor at CC so I have been a little surprised he did not come back when Dan did.

There is no bad blood however and Dave has spoken at the church a couple of times over the past few years. His daughters kept coming to Christ Church after he left and I beleive did so until they left town for College.

My sons were friends with Dave's girls and one summer spent many a weekend at Dave's lake house riding jet ski's and speedboats. My kids are friends with the Ramsey family and while the daughers have been in my home numerous times I have never officially met Dave or his wife.

[Mr. Steinway]

Response from Dave Ramsey so far:

I have no idea if any of this is true. If it is Debbie L. will know. Debbie?

Dave Ramsey

The Lampo Group, Inc.

Note: I left out the personal stuff! :)

I will post what Debbie sends me!

[Sherri]

Humming its a small world after all.:killinme
I REMEMBER YOU!!!! I was Sherri Graham (74-77).

[James Griffin]

I REMEMBER YOU!!!! I was Sherri Graham (74-77).

Will PM

[timlan2057]

mumbling to self, something about engaging in battle of wits with an unarmed person. LOL


Tim, never would have recognized yah, course I kinda look like Santa now myself. I will accept the tiddly-winks because of my Red China crack, however I was and am master of the chess board.

PM me sometime, let me know what cha been up do man!!!!

Rick is good, preaches jail ministry in Apopka, (along with Kirby). Rick had a couple get Holy Ghost week or so ago.

Griffin, what do you mean you look like Santa Claus NOW?

You looked like Santa Claus 32 years ago.

What have I been up to?

Oh yeah, you threw me off with that "he HELPED edit."

I forgot you were a one-year wonder.

Because the next year (when your brother showed up in your stead) I was editor of the whole enchilada - such as it was.

After grad in 1978, I evangelized 8 and one-half years.

Pastored 4 and 1/2.

Had two great kids out of a marriage that was mostly pure hell but because of the kids, I'd do it all over again the same way.

Debated, spoke at the 1990 Oneness Symposium with Hall, Bernard, Urshan and the other usual suspects. Wrote a little and served in a couple district offices.

Divorced in 1992, got in the car business.

Was sales manager and finance manager at John Decker Lincoln-Mercury for 14 years until a corporate buyout in 2004.

Moved to Baton Rouge and worked for a complete idiot trying to be general sales manager of a couple dealerships rife with nepotism, cronyism and general incompetence.

Came back to Alexandria in 2006 where I am now a humble car salesman at the local Toyota dealership.

I spend my days twiddling my thumbs and trying to get a couple kids through college.

Wolfe helped me out some; I sing bass in the Red River Chorale, the most elite group of singers in central Louisiana.

Well hey, it beats being the piano player in a non respectable place.

How in the world did you end up in Houston?

I do make it over there on occasion. I think Westheimer is one of the most exciting streets in the world.

I'm just now to the point where I think I could find a bit of satisfaction going to church again - DEFINITELY with more structure, liturgy, history and tradition than what I came out of.


Uh ... you?

[Monkeyman]

Griffin, what do you mean you look like Santa Claus NOW?

You looked like Santa Claus 32 years ago.

What have I been up to?

Oh yeah, you threw me off with that "he HELPED edit."

I forgot you were a one-year wonder.

Because the next year (when your brother showed up in your stead) I was editor of the whole enchilada - such as it was.

After grad in 1978, I evangelized 8 and one-half years.

Pastored 4 and 1/2.

Had two great kids out of a marriage that was mostly pure hell but because of the kids, I'd do it all over again the same way.

Debated, spoke at the 1990 Oneness Symposium with Hall, Bernard, Urshan and the other usual suspects. Wrote a little and served in a couple district offices.

Divorced in 1992, got in the car business.

Was sales manager and finance manager at John Decker Lincoln-Mercury for 14 years until a corporate buyout in 2004.

Moved to Baton Rouge and worked for a complete idiot trying to be general sales manager of a couple dealerships rife with nepotism, cronyism and general incompetence.

Came back to Alexandria in 2006 where I am now a humble car salesman at the local Toyota dealership.

I spend my days twiddling my thumbs and trying to get a couple kids through college.

Wolfe helped me out some; I sing bass in the Red River Chorale, the most elite group of singers in central Louisiana.

Well hey, it beats being the piano player in a non respectable place.

How in the world did you end up in Houston?

I do make it over there on occasion. I think Westheimer is one of the most exciting streets in the world.

I'm just now to the point where I think I could find a bit of satisfaction going to church again - DEFINITELY with more structure, liturgy, history and tradition than what I came out of.


Uh ... you?
This sentence blew me away! Tim, that is an amazing thing to say, kudos for thinking of your kids like that, wow!

[QueenEsther]

That is becaue the UPCI wants to stay in debt! If you ever get a chance to take the Financial Peace university do it, it is awesome. If you are a pastor it would be great for your church. I offered it to my church and it was a great community outreach tool. Dave is Awesome

Amen!! We are taking it right now through our church!

[Nina]

I'm just now to the point where I think I could find a bit of satisfaction going to church again - DEFINITELY with more structure, liturgy, history and tradition than what I came out of.




Tim,

Anyplace in particular sound satisfying?

Nina

PS What do You think of Church of Christ?

[CC1]

Tim,

Anyplace in particular sound satisfying?

Nina

PS What do You think of Church of Christ?

The music is not so great!!!! Very few churches can pull off the acapella singing and have it sound good.

[mizpeh]

Sounds like the Roman Catholics have just what you're looking for. :D

[Nina]

I'm just now to the point where I think I could find a bit of satisfaction going to church again - DEFINITELY with more structure, liturgy, history and tradition than what I came out of.



Tim,

Anyplace in particular sound satisfying?

Nina



Hey Tim,

You know You opened Yourself up for this question. :largehalo


The reason for the question about Church of Christ is that I am reading the transcript of the Jackson- Bayer Debate in Fulton MS from 1979, and I wondered how someone like You would debate today.

Nina

PS I know You will find what You're looking for.

[AmazingGrace]

Ok..........

This thread is back to the top so I must add.......................GOEWBTB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!

[James Griffin]

Griffin, what do you mean you look like Santa Claus NOW?

You looked like Santa Claus 32 years ago.

What have I been up to?

Oh yeah, you threw me off with that "he HELPED edit."

I forgot you were a one-year wonder.

Because the next year (when your brother showed up in your stead) I was editor of the whole enchilada - such as it was.

After grad in 1978, I evangelized 8 and one-half years.

Pastored 4 and 1/2.

Had two great kids out of a marriage that was mostly pure hell but because of the kids, I'd do it all over again the same way.

Debated, spoke at the 1990 Oneness Symposium with Hall, Bernard, Urshan and the other usual suspects. Wrote a little and served in a couple district offices.

Divorced in 1992, got in the car business.

Was sales manager and finance manager at John Decker Lincoln-Mercury for 14 years until a corporate buyout in 2004.

Moved to Baton Rouge and worked for a complete idiot trying to be general sales manager of a couple dealerships rife with nepotism, cronyism and general incompetence.

Came back to Alexandria in 2006 where I am now a humble car salesman at the local Toyota dealership.

I spend my days twiddling my thumbs and trying to get a couple kids through college.

Wolfe helped me out some; I sing bass in the Red River Chorale, the most elite group of singers in central Louisiana.

Well hey, it beats being the piano player in a non respectable place.

How in the world did you end up in Houston?

I do make it over there on occasion. I think Westheimer is one of the most exciting streets in the world.

I'm just now to the point where I think I could find a bit of satisfaction going to church again - DEFINITELY with more structure, liturgy, history and tradition than what I came out of.


Uh ... you?

True, but 32 years ago it was sans white hair and beard, a situation now remedied.

Long story short about ending up in Houston. After leaving the UPC and ministry in 1983 or so I held a series of exotic jobs in exciting fields such as fast food. At age 31 my father died which snapped me out of my lethargy. While working full time, and raising a family, I acquired an AA and BA in about 9 months, I aspired to go to law school and since there were none in central Florida at the time, and I knew I was going to have to work full time while attending I moved to Houston and matriculated at South Texas College of Law. (Answering your question about ending up in Houston)

Worked for Harris County DA office while in school and since no one wanted to hire a 38 year old first year associate, went into what I knew, criminal law, and a series of jobs both prosecutorial and defense. (Most recently felony prosecutor in Victoria) Went through an amicable no fault divorce, remarried to someone just met, and promptly separated. Broke everyone of God's commandments but perhaps murder. Experienced everything up to and including clinical depression. Quit criminal (though still licensed). Spent 9 months learning the 4 years of accounting necessary to sit for CPA (in process of obtaining both that and CFE) Starting a few years ago, began journey of restoration. I too stayed married mostly for the benefit of my step-daughters. (Wife number two patiently waited for years for me to reach place where I really wanted marriage to work.)

Even though it has been 25 years since I had been in an Apostolic pulpit, doors are opening. Largely through the ministries of Wendell Hutchins and Jonathan Suber I have experienced what is lacking in most Apostolic circles. The ability to be real and transparent and still be surrounded by unconditional love.(Most Apostolics attack their wounded).

I have no doubt you will be successful in your journey back into your own unique ministry. Persons of candor, wisdom, and intelligence are needed in Christendom.

As far as a ritualistic, structured, church with liturgy and tradition might I suggest your local Apostolic church. Most seem to have unconsciously developed their own.

[Nina]

I'm just now to the point where I think I could find a bit of satisfaction going to church again - DEFINITELY with more structure, liturgy, history and tradition than what I came out of.




Tim Landry,

Just in case You missed this question, here it is again.

Have You seen anything out there that meets these requirements?

Respectfully,
Nina

[Dora]

Tim Landry,

Just in case You missed this question, here it is again.

Have You seen anything out there that meets these requirements?

Respectfully,
Nina

Somebody call Dan Scott, QUICK!

[timlan2057]

Tim Landry,

Just in case You missed this question, here it is again.

Have You seen anything out there that meets these requirements?

Respectfully,
Nina

Hi Nina.

I'm sorry that I missed this.

I haven't been checking here since Thad left a couple weeks ago, and of course he starts so many threads with multiple exclamation points that things get lost.

I would probably attend some place like the Episcopal Church and I wouldn't rule out attending the Roman Catholic Church.

I sing in the Red River Chorale with the Catholic Bishop, Ronald Herzog. He is one of the most christian and down-to-earth men I have ever met.

He has a doctorate in education, was a chaplain and reached the rank of brigadier general in the US army.

Yes, my thinking regarding my own personal views on God and religion has changed dramatically.

Jim Griffin, you hit it on the head.

How in the world do we think that just because we yelled and screamed and carried on that that made it "heart worship."

Repeating the same tongues-mantra from church to church from one end of the country to the other - praying in that same singsong: "Haaave your WAAAaaaAAAAY, GooOOOOD (repeat a million times) -

I have been humbled and affected singing not only old traditional hymns but religious compositions by Mendelssohn and others in my chorale repertoire.

They are classics for a reason. They've stood the test of time and they move me like some of these nursery-rhyme little songs or doggerel like "I'm a Pentecostal" never could.

Yes, we all are conditioned like Pavlov's dogs, to bark when a pentecostal preacher says "dead, dry denominationalism."

You know what? I'm SICK of every preacher saying God has talked to him directly about every opinion he pulls out of a cocked hat.

I think God is a lot bigger than that and is much more a mystery than any of us can figure out and I would personally feel I was expressing my faith a lot better, a lot more sincerely, and a lot more humbly, by worshipping through what a lot of uninformed, ignorant and prejudiced folks would call "dead and dry."

At this point I have not started attending regularly anywhere.

But this is what I meant when I said I would be happy in an environment with much more liturgy, structure and tradition.

I spent much more time on this than what I intended since I have a busy day today, but you asked what I feel is a sincere question so I wanted to explain what I meant and how I was feeling.

[Nina]

May the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob bless You Tim!

[Coffee99]

Tim Landry,

Just in case You missed this question, here it is again.

Have You seen anything out there that meets these requirements?

Respectfully,
Nina

Visit your local Greek or Eastern Orthodox Church if you have these requirements

[Mr. Steinway]

Hi Nina.

I'm sorry that I missed this.

I haven't been checking here since Thad left a couple weeks ago, and of course he starts so many threads with multiple exclamation points that things get lost.

I would probably attend some place like the Episcopal Church and I wouldn't rule out attending the Roman Catholic Church.

I sing in the Red River Chorale with the Catholic Bishop, Ronald Herzog. He is one of the most christian and down-to-earth men I have ever met.

He has a doctorate in education, was a chaplain and reached the rank of brigadier general in the US army.

Yes, my thinking regarding my own personal views on God and religion has changed dramatically.

Jim Griffin, you hit it on the head.

How in the world do we think that just because we yelled and screamed and carried on that that made it "heart worship."

Repeating the same tongues-mantra from church to church from one end of the country to the other - praying in that same singsong: "Haaave your WAAAaaaAAAAY, GooOOOOD (repeat a million times) -

I have been humbled and affected singing not only old traditional hymns but religious compositions by Mendelssohn and others in my chorale repertoire.

They are classics for a reason. They've stood the test of time and they move me like some of these nursery-rhyme little songs or doggerel like "I'm a Pentecostal" never could.

Yes, we all are conditioned like Pavlov's dogs, to bark when a pentecostal preacher says "dead, dry denominationalism."

You know what? I'm SICK of every preacher saying God has talked to him directly about every opinion he pulls out of a cocked hat.

I think God is a lot bigger than that and is much more a mystery than any of us can figure out and I would personally feel I was expressing my faith a lot better, a lot more sincerely, and a lot more humbly, by worshipping through what a lot of uninformed, ignorant and prejudiced folks would call "dead and dry."

At this point I have not started attending regularly anywhere.

But this is what I meant when I said I would be happy in an environment with much more liturgy, structure and tradition.

I spent much more time on this than what I intended since I have a busy day today, but you asked what I feel is a sincere question so I wanted to explain what I meant and how I was feeling.

Timlan, I can certainly understand you wanting to go a different direction than "Ole Time Pentecost". You can see all the faults and hypocrisy from your inside view that you had for years.

This past Sunday I went to a concert of the Nashville City Choir and the Nashville Symphony. The choir is composed of choir members from churches all over the city.

The music started with acapella and then erupted into glorious hymn arrangements with a huge pipe organ and the orchestra. I sat in awe of how awesome it sounded, and how God looked so majestic to me.

I made a comment to a friend that was with me of how much I loved this type of music. He responded that it was indeed awesome, but that I would tire of a steady diet of it! Sure enough, at the end of the concert they sang the song "Total Praise" which is a contemporary worship song, and tears filled my eyes and I saw hands being lifted up all over the concert hall! I realized that THAT was what I REALLY liked! :)

Sometimes a change is warranted or needed, but somewhere way back in one's mind will always be the sight and sounds of that first genuine touch of God on their life. That first love.

[philjones]

Timlan, I can certainly understand you wanting to go a different direction than "Ole Time Pentecost". You can see all the faults and hypocrisy from your inside view that you had for years.

This past Sunday I went to a concert of the Nashville City Choir and the Nashville Symphony. The choir is composed of choir members from churches all over the city.

The music started with acapella and then erupted into glorious hymn arrangements with a huge pipe organ and the orchestra. I sat in awe of how awesome it sounded, and how God looked so majestic to me.

I made a comment to a friend that was with me of how much I loved this type of music. He responded that it was indeed awesome, but that I would tire of a steady diet of it! Sure enough, at the end of the concert they sang the song "Total Praise" which is a contemporary worship song, and tears filled my eyes and I saw hands being lifted up all over the concert hall! I realized that THAT was what I REALLY liked! :)

Sometimes a change is warranted or needed, but somewhere way back in one's mind will always be the sight and sounds of that first genuine touch of God on their life. That first love.

Great observation and post, PM!:scoregood

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

I made a comment to a friend that was with me of how much I loved this type of music. He responded that it was indeed awesome, but that I would tire of a steady diet of it! Sure enough, at the end of the concert they sang the song "Total Praise" which is a contemporary worship song, and tears filled my eyes and I saw hands being lifted up all over the concert hall! I realized that THAT was what I REALLY liked! :)

Sometimes a change is warranted or needed, but somewhere way back in one's mind will always be the sight and sounds of that first genuine touch of God on their life. That first love.

There is a vast difference in Annointing and Blessing.

[Esther]

Hi Nina.

I'm sorry that I missed this.

I haven't been checking here since Thad left a couple weeks ago, and of course he starts so many threads with multiple exclamation points that things get lost.

I would probably attend some place like the Episcopal Church and I wouldn't rule out attending the Roman Catholic Church.

I sing in the Red River Chorale with the Catholic Bishop, Ronald Herzog. He is one of the most christian and down-to-earth men I have ever met.

He has a doctorate in education, was a chaplain and reached the rank of brigadier general in the US army.

Yes, my thinking regarding my own personal views on God and religion has changed dramatically.

Jim Griffin, you hit it on the head.

How in the world do we think that just because we yelled and screamed and carried on that that made it "heart worship."

Repeating the same tongues-mantra from church to church from one end of the country to the other - praying in that same singsong: "Haaave your WAAAaaaAAAAY, GooOOOOD (repeat a million times) -

I have been humbled and affected singing not only old traditional hymns but religious compositions by Mendelssohn and others in my chorale repertoire.

They are classics for a reason. They've stood the test of time and they move me like some of these nursery-rhyme little songs or doggerel like "I'm a Pentecostal" never could.

Yes, we all are conditioned like Pavlov's dogs, to bark when a pentecostal preacher says "dead, dry denominationalism."

You know what? I'm SICK of every preacher saying God has talked to him directly about every opinion he pulls out of a cocked hat.

I think God is a lot bigger than that and is much more a mystery than any of us can figure out and I would personally feel I was expressing my faith a lot better, a lot more sincerely, and a lot more humbly, by worshipping through what a lot of uninformed, ignorant and prejudiced folks would call "dead and dry."

At this point I have not started attending regularly anywhere.

But this is what I meant when I said I would be happy in an environment with much more liturgy, structure and tradition.

I spent much more time on this than what I intended since I have a busy day today, but you asked what I feel is a sincere question so I wanted to explain what I meant and how I was feeling.

Tim I understand you wanting to make changes and I am thrilled you are considering going back to church. But Catholic??? Why would you consider Catholic?

[JTULLOCK]

He was the Youth Leader at Christ Church in his younger days! He and his family have been baptised in Jesus name! He attended CC for many years before getting sideways with Stan Mitchell when he was assistant pastor.

Even though Stan Mitchell was eventually fired and started his own church, Dave has to this day not returned to CC. Dave now attends a church called Bible Fellowship in Nashville.

He still comes with his family to friend get-togethers! :)

Pianoman, I saw him on your website teach/preach early this year.

[Mr. Steinway]

Pianoman, I saw him on your website teach/preach early this year.

Yes, Christ Church has Dave speak about once a year or so.

I recently found out that the reason Dave doesn't attend Christ Church anymore is because Dave's wife got sideways with our music director.

Also, Dave's assistant, Debbie (who is also a good friend), told me that the situation with the UPCI was basically true! They had agreed to buy several ads in the Herald and display at GC, but they wanted Dave's picture off of the advertising because of his goatee!!! They turned it down!

Debbie was raised UPC, so she understood the situation! :)

You may already know this, but Dave has a show on the new FOX business channel!

[Thad]

Yes, Christ Church has Dave speak about once a year or so.

I recently found out that the reason Dave doesn't attend Christ Church anymore is because Dave's wife got sideways with our music director.

Also, Dave's assistant, Debbie (who is also a good friend), told me that the situation with the UPCI was basically true! They had agreed to buy several ads in the Herald and display at GC, but they wanted Dave's picture off of the advertising because of his goatee!!! They turned it down!

Debbie was raised UPC, so she understood the situation! :)

You may already know this, but Dave has a show on the new FOX business channel!


HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Now would someone Admit that THAD was Right ???????????????
i get Bashed constantly for supposedly posting false information yet when it comes out No One will admit that I was right !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I told the for um 4 years ago that a split was coming over TV and NO ONE believed me !!!!!!! Well, here we are in 2007 and I haven't heard from any of the Nay sayers as of Yet !!!!

[Thad]

TIM!! Had no Idea That YOU sung!
what part ? I'm guessing either baritone or Bass .

[SDG]

TIM!! Had no Idea That YOU sung!
what part ? I'm guessing either baritone or Bass .

I hear him as a contralto.

[Mr. Steinway]

HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Now would someone Admit that THAD was Right ???????????????
i get Bashed constantly for supposedly posting false information yet when it comes out No One will admit that I was right !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I told the for um 4 years ago that a split was coming over TV and NO ONE believed me !!!!!!! Well, here we are in 2007 and I haven't heard from any of the Nay sayers as of Yet !!!!

You were Basically correct, Thad! BRAVO! BRAVO!!!!!!!

You were correct about the Herald, but his goetee had nothing to do with the booth at GC. The booth would have been manned by his staff, not him!

The whole thing was a package deal, so the Lampo Group declined all of it!

[tamor]

HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now would someone Admit that THAD was Right ???????????????
i get Bashed constantly for supposedly posting false information yet when it comes out No One will admit that I was right !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I told the forum 4 years ago that a split was coming over TV and NO ONE believed me !!!!!!! Well, here we are in 2007 and I haven't heard from any of the Nay sayers as of Yet !!!!

:bow :bow :bow :bow :bow :bow :bow :bow

You were right, Thad!!
We're so proud of you!!

:bow :bow :bow :bow :bow :bow :bow :bow

[revrandy]

Thad Bustard....:D

[Thad]

You were Basically correct, Thad! BRAVO! BRAVO!!!!!!!

You were correct about the Herald, but his goetee had nothing to do with the booth at GC. The booth would have been manned by his staff, not him!

The whole thing was a package deal, so the Lampo Group declined all of it!


O please! I believe that like I believe I have a bullet hole in my head!

you know Better than that PM

[Thad]

Thad Bustard....:D


UH?????????????????????

[dizzyde]

Thad Bustard....:D

LOL!!!

:slaphappy :slaphappy :slaphappy

But just a note, I never doubted you Thad!!! :largehalo

[revrandy]

UH?????????????????????

Gifted with Prophecy...:D

[Thad]

:bow :bow :bow :bow :bow :bow :bow :bow

You were right, Thad!!
We're so proud of you!!

:bow :bow :bow :bow :bow :bow :bow :bow

I ususally am tamor i get crucified on some slight technicality afterwhich I am villified for everything all the while others get away with murder!!!!!!

[Thad]

LOL!!!

:slaphappy :slaphappy :slaphappy

But just a note, I never doubted you Thad!!! :largehalo


That's because you're one of the GOOD Girls DixzyD!!!! :pirate

[Thad]

Gifted with Prophecy...:D



Touch Randy LOrd!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:runhills:runhills :runhills

[tamor]

Thad Bustard....:D

:toofunny That was BAD!! :toofunny

[dizzyde]

That's because you're one of the GOOD Girls DixzyD!!!! :pirate

That's right, and don't you forget it!!!!

[Mr. Steinway]

O please! I believe that like I believe I have a bullet hole in my head!

you know Better than that PM

Dave's picture is on all of his products, but he wasn't planning on manning the booth himself. Since Dave wasn't going to be there, the hangup had to be his picture on the ads for the UPCI.

[JTULLOCK]

Yes, Christ Church has Dave speak about once a year or so.

I recently found out that the reason Dave doesn't attend Christ Church anymore is because Dave's wife got sideways with our music director.

Also, Dave's assistant, Debbie (who is also a good friend), told me that the situation with the UPCI was basically true! They had agreed to buy several ads in the Herald and display at GC, but they wanted Dave's picture off of the advertising because of his goatee!!! They turned it down!

Debbie was raised UPC, so she understood the situation! :)

You may already know this, but Dave has a show on the new FOX business channel!

Yeah I knew that but have not been able to catch it. I think they have only had one show, but I missed it. I like Dave alot and he seems like an awesome guy. You know I guy I like that goes to CC is Ken Abraham. He seems like a great guy too. I saw him preach about the HG alittle while ago. It was very good.

[Joseph Miller]

Would someone PLEASE show me just ONE scripture where facial hair is a sin. I am of the belief that you must have 2 or 3 to forum a doctrine, but just ONE would at least show principle.

btw, I know it ain't there, so get over it already.

[Thad]

That's right, and don't you forget it!!!!



HEY! that's one of MY sayings !
:slaphappy

[dizzyde]

HEY! that's one of MY sayings !
:slaphappy

You know what they say about great minds! LOL!!

:highfive :highfive

[Thad]

Would someone PLEASE show me just ONE scripture where facial hair is a sin. I am of the belief that you must have 2 or 3 to forum a doctrine, but just ONE would at least show principle.

btw, I know it ain't there, so get over it already.



I was thinking about this the other day and this is what i came to a conclusion on..

we Men should have to repent every morning that we wake up because the sin that we removed the day before from our faces has again Returned! :pirate

[Joseph Miller]

I was thinking about this the other day and this is what i came to a conclusion on..

we Men should have to repent Very morning that we wake up because the sin that we removed the day before from our faces has again Returned! :pirate


Maybe when Paul said, I die daily, he meant he shaved daily. :drama

[Mr. Steinway]

Yeah I knew that but have not been able to catch it. I think they have only had one show, but I missed it. I like Dave alot and he seems like an awesome guy. You know I guy I like that goes to CC is Ken Abraham. He seems like a great guy too. I saw him preach about the HG alittle while ago. It was very good.

Ken Abraham is a good friend of mine and he is a pretty successful author. i.e. He helps Joel Osteen write his books.

Ken is indeed a great guy and has a wonderful spirit.

[timlan2057]

TIM!! Had no Idea That YOU sung!
what part ? I'm guessing either baritone or Bass .

Huh?

What do you mean you didn't know I sang? We've talked about that many times.

You'd be doing somersaults for joy if I sang in your choir.

And you've heard me talk and you wonder WHAT PART I SING?

Uh ... no.

I don't sing a sissy baritone.

And I won't even MENTION those tenors.

I sing the REAL man's part.

When I'm in good voice I can clobber the low G at the bottom of the piano.

I trust that answers your question as to what part I sing. :hypercoffee

[Sherri]

Ken Abraham is a good friend of mine and he is a pretty successful author. i.e. He helps Joel Osteen write his books.

Ken is indeed a great guy and has a wonderful spirit.
Ken & Lisa had Ashley over for dinner the last night she was in Nashville; she loves them!!

[SDG]

Huh?


And you've heard me talk and you wonder WHAT PART I SING?

Uh ... no.

I don't sing a sissy baritone.

And I won't even MENTION those tenors.



So ... you're a mezzo-soprano???

[Thad]

Huh?

What do you mean you didn't know I sang? We've talked about that many times.

You'd be doing somersaults for joy if I sang in your choir.

And you've heard me talk and you wonder WHAT PART I SING?

Uh ... no.

I don't sing a sissy baritone.

And I won't even MENTION those tenors.

I sing the REAL man's part.

When I'm in good voice I can clobber the low G at the bottom of the piano.

I trust that answers your question as to what part I sing. :hypercoffee

that is too funny !:pirate
come to think of it, you did tell me that you were in the JCM chorale lol !
and didn't you sing in a Quartet ?? have you heard of the new UPC Quartet convention ? it's called Aqua. they are having their annual convention next month at Bro carney's church at woodlawn.

Hey, these days the choir vocal parts are a LOT higher then even 25 years ago. If i didn't have some high tenors, we'd be in trouble.
whn our men's group sings, I sing low baritone, but when i led or teach parts I have to stretch to high tenor.

[timlan2057]

that is too funny !:pirate
come to think of it, you did tell me that you were in the JCM chorale lol !
and didn't you sing in a Quartet ?? have you heard of the new UPC Quartet convention ? it's called Aqua. they are having their annual convention next month at Bro carney's church at woodlawn.

Hey, these days the choir vocal parts are a LOT higher then even 25 years ago. If i didn't have some high tenors, we'd be in trouble.
whn our men's group sings, I sing low baritone, but when i led or teach parts I have to stretch to high tenor.

Seriously, you are correct.

While I love singing low bass, in most of our chorale repertoire even the bass 2s are up around middle C quite a bit.

However, we are expected to sight read.

On such music as Mendelssohn's Psalms 115, the director does not have near the time to try and "teach" every part by singing it.

Many in the Red River Chorale are music professors and so cold sight-reading comes as naturally to them as breathing.

For me it is a little harder but I'm getting there.

I was a "late bloomer." I could not sing worth a flip at JCM.

I was in choir but if you breathed, you were in choir.

It was on the evangelistic field that I began to get a handle on singing.

I preached quite a bit for J. M. Russell in Billings, Montana and his daughter Vicki (who attended JCM) had a young peoples' chorale that was my first real experience in becoming proficient at singing bass.

I do credit what I learned from Wolfe at JCM for helping bloom relatively late.

[timlan2057]

Now on the upper end of the scale, I'll just about strip a gear trying to hit the G above middle C.

Of course below middle C, I have a wonderful three-and-a-half octave range and close to four when artificially enhanced with a mike with the treble turned off.

So uh, yes.

My voice is quite low-pitched.

[Thad]

Seriously, you are correct.

While I love singing low bass, in most of our chorale repertoire even the bass 2s are up around middle C quite a bit.

However, we are expected to sight read.

On such music as Mendelssohn's Psalms 115, the director does not have near the time to try and "teach" every part by singing it.

Many in the Red River Chorale are music professors and so cold sight-reading comes as naturally to them as breathing.

For me it is a little harder but I'm getting there.

I was a "late bloomer." I could not sing worth a flip at JCM.

I was in choir but if you breathed, you were in choir.

It was on the evangelistic field that I began to get a handle on singing.

I preached quite a bit for J. M. Russell in Billings, Montana and his daughter Vicki (who attended JCM) had a young peoples' chorale that was my first real experience in becoming proficient at singing bass.

I do credit what I learned from Wolfe at JCM for helping bloom relatively late.

times sure have changed. most gospel choirs no longer even use bass or baritone including mine :) with the exception of perhaps a christmas contata or something like that. another exception is when i attend a choir convention such as GMWA when 4 part harmony with sheet music is required by each presenter.

the keys and arrangments to gospel selections are in the rafters! as a result,I have trained my choir to sing exceptionally high and they have adapted quite well i will add.

most of the predominantly "spirit filled" and Pentecostal groups are now primarily singing Praise choruses which are not challenging at all both vocally & musically or even as far as range.

with the exception of your mainline "high churches" and school choirs, choral music is a thing of the past. It might make a comeback one day, who knows

[Thad]

Now on the upper end of the scale, I'll just about strip a gear trying to hit the G above middle C.

Of course below middle C, I have a wonderful three-and-a-half octave range and close to four when artificially enhanced with a mike with the treble turned off.

So uh, yes.

My voice is quite low-pitched.


Ha! you are definitley not a first tenor then. wow! that is reeeeally "down there".
I can hit a "C" above middle C when my voice is warmed up and I'm not congested. a "B" note above middle C is easy. The reason again is teaching parts has stretched my range like a rubber band ,plus our songs are in such High Keys. however, I can also sing Bass, but after a while it seems to aggrevate my vocal chords - I'm not sure why

[timlan2057]

times sure have changed. most gospel choirs no longer even use bass or baritone including mine :) with the exception of perhaps a christmas contata or something like that. another exception is when i attend a choir convention such as GMWA when 4 part harmony with sheet music is required by each presenter.

the keys and arrangments to gospel selections are in the rafters! as a result,I have trained my choir to sing exceptionally high and they have adapted quite well i will add.

most of the predominantly "spirit filled" and Pentecostal groups are now primarily singing Praise choruses which are not challenging at all both vocally & musically or even as far as range.

with the exception of your mainline "high churches" and school choirs, choral music is a thing of the past. It might make a comeback one day, who knows

That's definitely understandable.

Even way back in the early seventies when I was in youth camps, the camp choirs only had the males sing tenor.

Of course this is pentecostal style and it fits best a choir that does not have a lot of formal musical training.

However, the classics are around because they stand the test of time.

Last night at chorale rehearsal we went over a few pieces from Handel's "Messiah."

We'll be singing along with the Louisiana College Choir when Barbara Bush comes to town on December 1st.

I had not sung "Hallelujah Chorus" since college but it came right back. Most everyone had sung it before so we just took off with it.

I give credit to Lanny Wolfe - he taught that to the JCM choir and we did not have individual scores.

That was the most worshipful I remember a Music Conference; when we sang that piece. Quite a tribute to Handel - and Wolfe.

I had to agree with LW. If any single piece of human-composed music is sung in heaven, it will be Handel's "Hallelujah Chorus."

You know what you should do, Thad?

Forget the shockamoo just for once and teach your choir that piece.

It would give them some appreciation for the great composers and broaden their musical horizons.

And ... with some hard, focused practice, it's not THAT hard.

[CC1]

That's definitely understandable.

Even way back in the early seventies when I was in youth camps, the camp choirs only had the males sing tenor.

Of course this is pentecostal style and it fits best a choir that does not have a lot of formal musical training.

However, the classics are around because they stand the test of time.

Last night at chorale rehearsal we went over a few pieces from Handel's "Messiah."

We'll be singing along with the Louisiana College Choir when Barbara Bush comes to town on December 1st.

I had not sung "Hallelujah Chorus" since college but it came right back. Most everyone had sung it before so we just took off with it.

I give credit to Lanny Wolfe - he taught that to the JCM choir and we did not have individual scores.

That was the most worshipful I remember a Music Conference; when we sang that piece. Quite a tribute to Handel - and Wolfe.

I had to agree with LW. If any single piece of human-composed music is sung in heaven, it will be Handel's "Hallelujah Chorus."

You know what you should do, Thad?

Forget the shockamoo just for once and teach your choir that piece.

It would give them some appreciation for the great composers and broaden their musical horizons.

And ... with some hard, focused practice, it's not THAT hard.

Handel's Messiah is a timeless classic. I get goosebumps when I hear it done right. Not many songs convey the majesty of God like that one.

[rgcraig]

Handel's Messiah is a timeless classic. I get goosebumps when I hear it done right. Not many songs convey the majesty of God like that one.

And I bet we all still know our parts!

I too love to sing and hear this song!!!