View Full Version : The Office of Bishop: A six letter dirty word?
Bishop comes from the Greek word episkopos (επίσκοπος, from επι "over" and σκοπος "seeing"). It can be generally translated bishop, overseer, superintendent, supervisor, the first, leader or foreman. From the word episkopos are derived the English words episcopacy, episcopate and episcopal.
A few years back, I sat in a business meeting, in which a resolution was brought to the floor, to define this word "Bishop". A couple of leaders did not like that this term was being directed at a particular person. The argument was made that only a select few should be honored with this term. The resolution failed to garner enough support.
I know various denominations use this word differently but ...
What does it mean to you?
What does the bible teach us about this word?
Can females be bishops?
Rhoni
03-03-2007, 12:12 PM
This is a good question...if it means overseer...then it would seem to me that it is fair to assume...the highest Pastor in one assemby. The District Superintendent over a particular District. Could be male or female...but can only have one spouse;)!
Blessings, Rhoni
Bishop comes from the Greek word episkopos (επίσκοπος, from επι "over" and σκοπος "seeing"). It can be generally translated bishop, overseer, superintendent, supervisor, the first, leader or foreman. From the word episkopos are derived the English words episcopacy, episcopate and episcopal.
A few years back, I sat in a business meeting, in which a resolution was brought to the floor, to define this word "Bishop". A couple of leaders did not like that this term was being directed at a particular person. The argument was made that only a select few should be honored with this term. The resolution failed to garner enough support.
I know various denominations use this word differently but ...
What does it mean to you?
What does the bible teach us about this word?
Can females be bishops?
I think it should be synonymous with Apostle. I would call a Senior or Pastor of Emeritus Bishop.
This is a good question...if it means overseer...then it would seem to me that it is fair to assume...the highest Pastor in one assemby. The District Superintendent over a particular District. Could be male or female...but can only have one spouse;)!
Blessings, Rhoni
A traditional answer ... Rhoni ... which I respect and understand...
however,
IF a pastor of many years opens 10-12 daughter works .... can he be viewed as a bishop by those under his pastoral authority?
rgcraig
03-03-2007, 12:15 PM
I'm a supervisor, so I guess that means I could be called a Bishop - lol!!
Rhoni
03-03-2007, 12:18 PM
Absolutely! Anyone who oversees more than one assembly has many people in trust to oversee! I am a traditional girl despite many who think otherwise;)!
Blessings, Rhoni
Rhoni
03-03-2007, 12:19 PM
Bishop Craig...that has a nice ring to it;)!
Blessings, Rhoni
P.S. I think it means overseeing God's ministry...but you could be.
Would a missionary like Nona Freeman be considered a BISHOP???
Interestingly ... in the Spanish Reina Valera ... often bishop, as found in the KJV, is translated into pastor.
Ronzo
03-03-2007, 12:28 PM
Interestingly ... in the Spanish Reina Valera ... often bishop, as found in the KJV, is translated into pastor.
Because that's what it really means. "One who takes care of the church" is what it really boils down to.
Brett Prince
03-03-2007, 12:37 PM
Sorry. Bishops and Elders are the husbands of ONE WIFE. Only liberal Episcopalean types could allow a woman to be bishop, as she would have to be a lesbian, and they would have to define her lesbian relationship as a marriage. Both are ungodly. So, no, a woman cannot be a bishop.
Praxeas
03-03-2007, 12:40 PM
Bishop comes from the Greek word episkopos (επίσκοπος, from επι "over" and σκοπος "seeing"). It can be generally translated bishop, overseer, superintendent, supervisor, the first, leader or foreman. From the word episkopos are derived the English words episcopacy, episcopate and episcopal.
A few years back, I sat in a business meeting, in which a resolution was brought to the floor, to define this word "Bishop". A couple of leaders did not like that this term was being directed at a particular person. The argument was made that only a select few should be honored with this term. The resolution failed to garner enough support.
I know various denominations use this word differently but ...
What does it mean to you?
What does the bible teach us about this word?
Can females be bishops?
Bible titles are underused. This is really just passed on traditions from previous denominations. It's funny...that we "pride" ourselves on being biblical and avoiding non-biblical language and yet can't call people Bishops, Elders, Prophets, Presbyters, Apostles or Teachers....all we got are Pastors and Evangelists (locally). While we do call certain people presbyters I think it's being misused there. And where is General Superintendent in the bible?
Let it rain ... Father ...
Ronzo
03-03-2007, 12:47 PM
Sorry. Bishops and Elders are the husbands of ONE WIFE. Only liberal Episcopalean types could allow a woman to be bishop, as she would have to be a lesbian, and they would have to define her lesbian relationship as a marriage. Both are ungodly. So, no, a woman cannot be a bishop.
In reality, the original language points to the Bishop being at one with his wife. Not the husband of one wife. Oh how that changes the amount of men qualified for such a position.
If it truly meant the husband of one wife, you'd have to take it exactly literally and that means any man who has been married more than once, regardless of whether the first marriage was ended by death, could not be a Bishop.
Felicity
03-03-2007, 12:57 PM
In reality, the original language points to the Bishop being at one with his wife. First time I've ever heard this!
In reality, the original language points to the Bishop being at one with his wife. Not the husband of one wife. Oh how that changes the amount of men qualified for such a position.
If it truly meant the husband of one wife, you'd have to take it exactly literally and that means any man who has been married more than once, regardless of whether the first marriage was ended by death, could not be a Bishop.
Ron ...very interesting and logical points ... what evidence do you have for this translation?
BoredOutOfMyMind
03-03-2007, 01:10 PM
Would a missionary like Nona Freeman be considered a BISHOP???
Sorry. Bishops and Elders are the husbands of ONE WIFE. Only liberal Episcopalean types could allow a woman to be bishop, as she would have to be a lesbian, and they would have to define her lesbian relationship as a marriage. Both are ungodly. So, no, a woman cannot be a bishop.
Can you elaborate on your feeling of a missionary who is a woman then?
Sis Freeman is a good example, Sis Else Lund (who never married) is another. What of a man who never married, is he then disqualified to be a Bishop?
Bible titles are underused. This is really just passed on traditions from previous denominations. It's funny...that we "pride" ourselves on being biblical and avoiding non-biblical language and yet can't call people Bishops, Elders, Prophets, Presbyters, Apostles or Teachers....all we got are Pastors and Evangelists (locally). While we do call certain people presbyters I think it's being misused there. And where is General Superintendent in the bible?
Bishop Praxeus ... perhaps because a business corporate model has replaced Apostolic church gov't?
Rhoni
03-03-2007, 01:29 PM
Praxeus ... perhaps because a business corporate model has replace Apostolic church gov't?
You have a point. I never heard the terms: "Bishop" or "Elder" until my daughter married a young man from an ALJC church. I still don't truly understand the distinctions.:dunno
Blessings, Rhoni
whollyHis
03-03-2007, 01:33 PM
It's been my experience that the title 'BISHOP' means little, if anything. The only Bishop that I have known, was never used to anything in the church, and his advice was NEVER appreciated, nor taken. He was pastor Emeritus- whatever THAT means. He sits in a pew along with everyone else, and stays in his own corner...
In reality, the original language points to the Bishop being at one with his wife. Not the husband of one wife. Oh how that changes the amount of men qualified for such a position.
If it truly meant the husband of one wife, you'd have to take it exactly literally and that means any man who has been married more than once, regardless of whether the first marriage was ended by death, could not be a Bishop.
Husband of One wife according to the authority of scripture. Being divorced would be outside the scope of the authority of Scripture.
Taking on a wife once has already passed does not fit into the idea of being the husband of one wife for the office of Bishop or Pastor.
What is your thought on a man becoming a Bishop if his divorce happened years before he was saved?
I think the record starts at salvation.
Rhoni
03-03-2007, 01:38 PM
Husband of One wife according to the authority of scripture. Being divorced would be outside the scope of the authority of Scripture.
Taking on a wife once has already passed does not fit into the idea of being the husband of one wife for the office of Bishop or Pastor.
What is your thought on a man becoming a Bishop if his divorce happened years before he was saved?
I think the record starts at salvation.
Depends on the organization you want to affiliate with. UPCI might see it the way you have posted, but I think ALJC will not allow anyone to hold license that has ever been divorced regardless of fault or timing. At least this is the way I understand it to be.
Bryan
03-03-2007, 03:06 PM
It's been my experience that the title 'BISHOP' means little, if anything. The only Bishop that I have known, was never used to anything in the church, and his advice was NEVER appreciated, nor taken. He was pastor Emeritus- whatever THAT means. He sits in a pew along with everyone else, and stays in his own corner...
Emeritus... He kept the title of pastor,but is retired. In some churches, the Sr. Pastor is "emeritus."
Steve Epley
03-03-2007, 03:11 PM
Bishop-pastor-shepherd-presbyter-elder are names for the same office however 'elder' is used for other offices. The pastor is the bishop.
Praxeas
03-03-2007, 03:16 PM
In reality, the original language points to the Bishop being at one with his wife. Not the husband of one wife. Oh how that changes the amount of men qualified for such a position.
Please support this assertion.
If it truly meant the husband of one wife, you'd have to take it exactly literally and that means any man who has been married more than once, regardless of whether the first marriage was ended by death, could not be a Bishop.
As to your second assertion. I find it is also unsupported. It's just you asserting it.
What you are saying in the bold part is a contradiction. You said "ended by death", yet your assertion really is based upon the idea that the marriage was NOT ended by death...that they are still married and thus that man has two wives.
If the marriage was "ended" then they are no longer married.
Steve Epley
03-03-2007, 03:22 PM
Please support this assertion.
As to your second assertion. I find it is also unsupported. It's just you asserting it.
What you are saying in the bold part is a contradiction. You said "ended by death", yet your assertion really is based upon the idea that the marriage was NOT ended by death...that they are still married and thus that man has two wives.
If the marriage was "ended" then they are no longer married.
Not so it means "a one woman-man" It seems like we have discussed this subject before????????????????????????
NO there is NO such thing as a WOMAN bishop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:beatdeadhorse
MissBrattified
03-03-2007, 03:34 PM
In reality, the original language points to the Bishop being at one with his wife. Not the husband of one wife. Oh how that changes the amount of men qualified for such a position.
I'd like to see the support for this, Ron.
If it truly meant the husband of one wife, you'd have to take it exactly literally and that means any man who has been married more than once, regardless of whether the first marriage was ended by death, could not be a Bishop.
Considering that one definition of "one" is first, it would be quite possible to interpret the passage to mean the "husband of his first wife."
Steve Epley
03-03-2007, 03:38 PM
I'd like to see the support for this, Ron.
Considering that one definition of "one" is first, it would be quite possible to interpret the passage to mean the "husband of his first wife."
Probably written by someone with their second or third wife.
Bryan
03-03-2007, 03:38 PM
Probably written by someone with their second or third wife.lol
Elder Epley ... do you think that a fellowship needs to define terms such as Bishop?
MissBrattified
03-03-2007, 03:50 PM
Probably written by someone with their second or third wife.
It does sound like a rather prejudicial theory... :killinme
Praxeas
03-03-2007, 04:03 PM
Not so it means "a one woman-man" It seems like we have discussed this subject before????????????????????????
NO there is NO such thing as a WOMAN bishop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:beatdeadhorse
Im not sure what you are trying to say here or how it relates to me asking someone else to back up his assertions. Maybe you were quoting the wrong person. I never asserted anything...so far, in this area
Ronzo
03-03-2007, 04:24 PM
I'll see what I can find for those of you looking for 'proof' of my comments...
I remember finding the 'proof' awhile back and I'll see if I can still get it.
Bryan
03-03-2007, 04:27 PM
I'll see what I can find for those of you looking for 'proof' of my comments...
I remember finding the 'proof' awhile back and I'll see if I can still get it.
Translation: I don't have any proof
Translation: I don't have any proof
Take a chill .. Berk ... he said give him time ....
Bryan
03-03-2007, 04:28 PM
Take a chill .. Berk ... he said give him time ....
don't tell me to chill.
Ronzo
03-03-2007, 04:28 PM
Translation: I don't have any proof
Actually, if I can't find it, I will gladly recant the position...
So... stick that in your redsox lovin' pipe and smoke it.
Bryan
03-03-2007, 04:28 PM
Actually, if I can't find it, I will gladly recant the position...
So... stick that in your redsox lovin' pipe and smoke it.stick that in your... and ....
Ronzo
03-03-2007, 04:29 PM
stick that in your... and ....
Go and do thou likewise....
Ronzo
03-03-2007, 04:43 PM
If I do recant, Berk can be the first to stone me for it.
Maybe it'll make him feel better.
Brett Prince
03-03-2007, 04:43 PM
In reality, the original language points to the Bishop being at one with his wife. Not the husband of one wife. Oh how that changes the amount of men qualified for such a position.
If it truly meant the husband of one wife, you'd have to take it exactly literally and that means any man who has been married more than once, regardless of whether the first marriage was ended by death, could not be a Bishop.
Sorry. Ron, the original language DOES NOT say what you are trying to claim. It says that he is a one-woman kind of man. That would not eliminate him if he were single, nor would it eliminate him if his first wife were dead. In my opinion, in would not eliminate him if he were divorced justly, and had remarried. It DOES eliminate him if he were not a he, but a she.
Brett Prince
03-03-2007, 04:44 PM
Can you elaborate on your feeling of a missionary who is a woman then?
Sis Freeman is a good example, Sis Else Lund (who never married) is another. What of a man who never married, is he then disqualified to be a Bishop?
See post # 42.
Ronzo
03-03-2007, 04:44 PM
You can be second in the stoning line, Brett. Would you like that?
MissBrattified
03-03-2007, 04:45 PM
You can be second in the stoning line, Brett. Would you like that?
I don't think asking for your source is stoning you, Ron. :dunno Nor is disagreement with your point.
Brett Prince
03-03-2007, 04:46 PM
You can be second in the stoning line, Brett. Would you like that?
No sir. I like you too much. I would not want you a goner. Bro, just because I disagree with you here doesn't mean I don't like you.
PM incoming.
Ronzo
03-03-2007, 04:46 PM
Hey, Ab... I'm having some fun here.
:tease
Ronzo
03-03-2007, 04:47 PM
No sir. I like you too much. I would not want you a goner. Bro, just because I disagree with you here doesn't mean I don't like you.
PM incoming.
I don't like anyone that disagrees with me.
;)
Bryan
03-03-2007, 04:50 PM
Por Favor!
Ronzo
03-03-2007, 04:51 PM
Por Favor!
Please what?
Brett Prince
03-03-2007, 04:52 PM
I don't like anyone that disagrees with me.
;)
Yeah, you do! You're just too tough to admit it! :killinme
Steve Epley
03-03-2007, 04:52 PM
Elder Epley ... do you think that a fellowship needs to define terms such as Bishop?
No the scripture is clear enough.
Ronzo
03-03-2007, 04:54 PM
Yeah, you do! You're just too tough to admit it! :killinme
Nope. Can't stand 'em.:ranting:ranting :ranting
:toofunny
Nope. Can't stand 'em.:ranting:ranting :ranting
:toofunny
Ron ... hurry up w/ your exegesis ... or I get first licks
Ronzo
03-03-2007, 05:01 PM
Ron ... hurry up w/ your exegesis ... or I get first licks
Et tu, Daniel?
Might as well throw your first rock, Dan... I'll get to it when I get to it.
Dan ... steps off the mound ... fixes his cap .. he puts his toe back on the rubber ... he sets ... the windup and the pitch ...
Ronzo
03-03-2007, 05:02 PM
Some friend you are....
Bryan
03-03-2007, 05:03 PM
Dan ... steps off the mound ... fixes his cap .. he puts toe back on the rubber ... he sets ... the windup and the pitch ...
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l242/disorderlyprofusion/RedSoxIcon.png
MissBrattified
03-03-2007, 05:08 PM
Hey, Ab... I'm having some fun here.
:tease
Then use more smilies! :ranting I can't tell when you're joking or serious, Oh Thou Of Most Dry Humor.
Scott Hutchinson
03-03-2007, 07:53 PM
Bishop, Elder , Pastor are synonymous terms for the same office.
Apostles in the NT. set the churches in order but Bishops oversaw the local assemblies.
Councils like the Jerusalem council in ACTS .15 were voluntary meetings for consenus on fonudational doctrine and practice but the local assemblies were autonomous and soverign.
A NT. presybetry were a group of Elders in a local assembly.
Ronzo
03-03-2007, 08:01 PM
ein-ai mi-as gu-nai-kos an-dra
exist as one with wife husband
The key word in the Greek is, ein-ai. The English translation leaves this word out, it is to exist, to be.
To translate this phrase in English we have to move the subject and thus, "husband exist as one with your wife."
Don't like it? Fine. Don't believe it. Think what you've always thought then.
Scott Hutchinson
03-03-2007, 08:09 PM
RONZO wouldn't this exclude women from being Bishops?
A Bishop have to be at one with his wife and not be at odds with her and have alot of contention in the home.
Praxeas
03-03-2007, 08:25 PM
ein-ai mi-as gu-nai-kos an-dra
exist as one with wife husband
The key word in the Greek is, ein-ai. The English translation leaves this word out, it is to exist, to be.
To translate this phrase in English we have to move the subject and thus, "husband exist as one with your wife."
Don't like it? Fine. Don't believe it. Think what you've always thought then.
Actually that word IS translated. You realize that other languages, like greek, are not translated word for word...sometimes the word order is turned around from ours...
That word is translated "be" as in "A Bishop must then BE blameless, the husband of one (mia) wife"
In fact the very first word in the greek is the greek word for "must"...yet we see the translators translate that word third
BTW here is how this word is translated in the KJV
to be 33, be 28, was 15, is 14, am 7, are 6, were 4, not translated 11, miscellaneous 8
If Ronzo is indeed wrong ... and Elder Epley feels that a bishop is a pastor then pastors must also be males and must have had only one wife. Elder Epley, am I correct in my assessment?
Philemon 1:2 2And to our beloved Apphia, and Archippus our fellowsoldier, and to the church in thy house:
Based on this scripture can we assume the Apphia, a woman, was either pastoring or co-pastoring this house church?
What say ye ... of Carmen Quiles, a Puerto Rican woman pastor for decades, who is also viewed as a church leader on the island .... if a bishop is essentially a pastor then is she living in disobedience????
She was featured in Pioneer Pentecostal Women, Volume III
by Mary Wallace, published by PPH (http://www.pentecostalpublishing.com/Home/home_details.asp?product_id=7481&subject=0&author_id=146)
http://www.pentecostalpublishing.com/Home/..%5Cpos%5Cimages%5C1567226175.jpg
Truthseeker
03-04-2007, 09:22 PM
Bishop comes from the Greek word episkopos (επίσκοπος, from επι "over" and σκοπος "seeing"). It can be generally translated bishop, overseer, superintendent, supervisor, the first, leader or foreman. From the word episkopos are derived the English words episcopacy, episcopate and episcopal.
A few years back, I sat in a business meeting, in which a resolution was brought to the floor, to define this word "Bishop". A couple of leaders did not like that this term was being directed at a particular person. The argument was made that only a select few should be honored with this term. The resolution failed to garner enough support.
I know various denominations use this word differently but ...
What does it mean to you?
What does the bible teach us about this word?
Can females be bishops?
Bishops were the elders in the local church. It wasn't like today with one man being the bishop of a church
Truthseeker
03-04-2007, 09:25 PM
Philemon 1:2 2And to our beloved Apphia, and Archippus our fellowsoldier, and to the church in thy house:
Based on this scripture can we assume the Apphia, a woman, was either pastoring or co-pastoring this house church?
No it means they had a church in their house. that's it
Truthseeker
03-04-2007, 09:28 PM
Bishop, Elder , Pastor are synonymous terms for the same office.
Apostles in the NT. set the churches in order but Bishops oversaw the local assemblies.
Councils like the Jerusalem council in ACTS .15 were voluntary meetings for consenus on fonudational doctrine and practice but the local assemblies were autonomous and soverign.
A NT. presybetry were a group of Elders in a local assembly.
and the churches had more then one elder/bishop overseeing the local church.
Steve Epley
03-04-2007, 09:55 PM
If Ronzo is indeed wrong ... and Elder Epley feels that a bishop is a pastor then pastors must also be males and must have had only one wife. Elder Epley, am I correct in my assessment?
Correct on both points this office is gender restrictive and then the man can only have been married once since being in the church.
Truthseeker
03-04-2007, 09:58 PM
Correct on both points this office is gender restrictive and then the man can only have been married once since being in the church.
what about if his wife died?
Steve Epley
03-04-2007, 09:58 PM
what about if his wife died?
No problem. This was speaking of living wives.
What would you say about your fellowship supporting a woman like Carmen Quiles ... see post 66.
Steve Epley
03-04-2007, 10:03 PM
What would you say about your fellowship supporting a woman like Carmen Quiles ... see post 66.
I do not preach or preach for women preachers. I do believe some wonderful but misguided women has done good things in the kingdom of God but certainly do not believe it is scriptural for women to preach to men in a public assembly.
I do not preach or preach for women preachers. I do believe some wonderful but misguided women has done good things in the kingdom of God but certainly do not believe it is scriptural for women to preach to men in a public assembly.
If you dont preach ... what is it that you do Elder??/
Steve Epley
03-04-2007, 10:07 PM
If you dont preach ... what is it that you do Elder??/
I meant I do not allow a woman to preach here!
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