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Theophilus
03-04-2007, 07:23 AM
Greetings to you all in the Name of Jesus Christ!

A book was brought to my attention last night that I would like to share. It may induce a discussion on the matter, or it may drop to the archival grave yard on the sea floor of our esteemed forum like the Titanic. Either way, I must share it. Click the title for the free online version.


THE
BLOODY THEATER
OR
MARTYRS MIRROR
OF THE
DEFENSELESS CHRISTIANS
(http://www.homecomers.org/mirror/martyrs001.htm)
Who Baptized Only Upon Confession of Faith, and Who Suffered and Died for the Testimony of Jesus, Their Saviour, From the Time of Christ to the Year A.D. 1660

COMPILED FROM VARIOUS AUTHENTIC CHRONICLES, MEMORIALS, AND TESTIMONIES, BY

THIELEMAN J. van BRAGHT

Translated from the original Dutch or Holland Language from the Edition of 1660

BY JOSEPH F. SOHM


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ILLUSTRATED
HERALD PRESS
Scottdale, Pennsylvania
Waterloo, Ontario


The book that was shown to me was a high quality hard bound as big as a concordance. I will be obtaining my own copy. If you would like one and find the cost too high from your source, PM me. I can get them for $25 and would ship it to you for the cost of shipping. I will ship internationally as well and to missionaries for free.

As I perused the work I was terribly moved by the many detailed accounts of the many martyrs. This is chiefly an Anabaptist book as it gets on into the time of their movement. It does start with the Jesus and the Apostles and makes its way into the 17th century. This isn't intended to be an exhaustive work for all Christian martyrs. I don't think any work ever can be. However, it is a strictly factual effort, complete with public records.

I found this very interesting with some references to Act 2:38 and accounts of baptisms taking place in homes wherein the man baptizing was speaking loudly in a language that the subject had never heard before. I can't remember where I was reading this as I paged through the entire work, but I will find it again.

I also found what I would consider to be those with doctrinal errors. However, the accounts of their situations and dedication and resolve to die for the confession of Christ when all that they had to do was deny and walk left me beside myself.

I read letters that are published from those awaiting torture and execution in prison to their wives that basically state:

"Well honey, I could be home for dinner tonight, but I will not deny Jesus Christ so this looks like this is it, Love ya, me."

Can you imagine! Some of these martyrs were not killed for being caught as a Christian; they were given the option to walk if only they would deny Christ.

There are also many accounts of catholic verses Christian persecution, torture, and execution simply because these would not claim allegiance to the "mother roman catholic church" as they called themselves. In one interview, the prisoner declared straight to the friar's face that the catholic church was the whore found in Rev 18. Bold to the end! Absolutely Fearless of what man can do!

This doesn't even begin to scratch the surface. I would recommend this book to anyone and everyone. I believe that it can change your perspective and edify your walk. I've always tried to imagine the plight of the martyrs, but these detailed accounts moved me and touched me beyond my imagination.

I realize that we might not agree with some of these martyrs doctrinally. However, it poses the question:

Are these martyrs glory bound despite their doctrinal shortcomings, despite the position that they were in with respect to their walk with Jesus, when time stood still, the question was posed, and the answer that cost them everything was given?

God Bless, Theo.

SDG
03-04-2007, 07:25 AM
Heaven bound ... next question.

SDG
03-04-2007, 07:30 AM
Just kidding ... Theo ... great question .... I will ponder it further.

The Swordsman
03-04-2007, 04:02 PM
Revelation 2:13 - I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.

Theophilus
03-04-2007, 07:35 PM
Heaven bound ... next question.

Right, well, this is what I felt as well. Did you manage to page through the book at all?

Felicity
03-04-2007, 08:18 PM
I believe they were glory bound as well of course. What other answer would you expect from me? :)

As for doctrinal error ... is it not alive and well in the OP movement?

seguidordejesus
03-04-2007, 08:20 PM
If, as some believe, Trinitarians worship another god....

Then why on earth would their dying for THEIR god be any different than a Buddhist dying for theirs?

(this, of course, is only applicable to those who believe the initial statement)

Felicity
03-04-2007, 08:25 PM
The book that was shown to me was a high quality hard bound as big as a concordance. I will be obtaining my own copy. If you would like one and find the cost too high from your source, PM me. I can get them for $25 and would ship it to you for the cost of shipping. I will ship internationally as well and to missionaries for free.How much in Canadian $$$?

Theophilus
03-04-2007, 08:33 PM
How much in Canadian $$$?

I'm not sure of the exchange rate currently. I'd have to look into how to do that, good point.

Theophilus
03-04-2007, 08:47 PM
I believe they were glory bound as well of course. What other answer would you expect from me? :)

As for doctrinal error ... is it not alive and well in the OP movement?

I wouldn't expect any other answer from you, but I did feel as though there might be some that would challenge a martyr's salvation.

I suppose that there are variant doctrines within the OP movement, even concerning salvation, however some of these Anabaptist doctrines vary much further, especially with respect to time amongst themselves. However, it seems that early Anabaptist doctrines are more akin to some of ours.

I've even read of some more recent examples of martyrdom and thought on the eternal fate of these that refused to deny Christ. I tend to believe that these circumstances bring forth a whole new perspective on salvation and wanted some unbridled Apostolic input. Thanks, God Bless, Theo.

Felicity
03-04-2007, 08:53 PM
I wouldn't expect any other answer from you, but I did feel as though there might be some that would challenge a martyr's salvation.

I suppose that there are variant doctrines within the OP movement, even concerning salvation, however some of these Anabaptist doctrines vary much further, especially with respect to time amongst themselves. However, it seems that early Anabaptist doctrines are more akin to some of ours.

I've even read of some more recent examples of martyrdom and thought on the eternal fate of these that refused to deny Christ. I tend to believe that these circumstances bring forth a whole new perspective on salvation and wanted some unbridled Apostolic input. Thanks, God Bless, Theo.Yes .... well that I've been thinking about that mixing up a pan of squares here since I wrote what I did and thinking that maybe I should have taken more care with my answer.

I certainly don't believe that martyrdom is in and of itself salvatory and possibly not even accompanied by faith.

Felicity
03-04-2007, 08:54 PM
I'm not sure of the exchange rate currently. I'd have to look into how to do that, good point.Aha! So you didn't even take us foreigners into consideration. :(


:)

Theophilus
03-04-2007, 09:03 PM
If, as some believe, Trinitarians worship another god....

Then why on earth would their dying for THEIR god be any different than a Buddhist dying for theirs?

(this, of course, is only applicable to those who believe the initial statement)

That is a great point. Although it is apparent that some trinitarians did/do worship another god, most did/do not. They simply are under a centuries old misunderstanding of the Godhead as a unified threesome "mystery." It becomes particularly troublesome when it interfers with baptism wherein a rejection of Christ's Name may well be just as costly as if one denied Christ in any other way.

I believe that most accounts of martyrdom are the result of an understanding of both what Jesus warned and taught, and who they were dying for, even if they didn't understand the Godhead completely.

Theophilus
03-04-2007, 09:06 PM
Aha! So you didn't even take us foreigners into consideration. :(


:)

I sure did, I just didn't consider any other medium of exchange. :dunno

Theophilus
03-04-2007, 09:16 PM
Yes .... well that I've been thinking about that mixing up a pan of squares here since I wrote what I did and thinking that maybe I should have taken more care with my answer.

I certainly don't believe that martyrdom is in and of itself salvatory and possibly not even accompanied by faith.

See now you'll have to expound.

First, I would suggest that it takes phenomenal faith to face the question knowing the repercussions: "Do you confess or deny Jesus Christ?"

It takes phenomenal faith to respond with the answer that will cost you everything.

Can you think of a martyr's situation that doesn't require a sincere walk with God, irregardless of the place wherein that person was?

Felicity
03-04-2007, 09:29 PM
I agree with your suggestion - absolutely and I agree that it would take exceptional faith but I've watched Roman Catholics mount hundreds of steps on their knees because of "faith". Of what sort of faith though ... that is the question. Do they have a real personal relationship with Jesus Christ? Have they been truly regenerated/born again? Or is it the works expected of those with a dead religion?

Could martyrdom not occur based on the same premise and from the same kind of religious fervency and devotion?

Theophilus
03-04-2007, 10:02 PM
I agree with your suggestion - absolutely and I agree that it would take exceptional faith but I've watched Roman Catholics mount hundreds of steps on their knees because of "faith". Of what sort of faith though ... that is the question. Do they have a real personal relationship with Jesus Christ? Have they been truly regenerated/born again? Or is it the works expected of those with a dead religion?

Could martyrdom not occur based on the same premise and from the same kind of religious fervency and devotion?

Good points and questions. Interesting that you mention the Catholics for they have been the perpetrators of much persecution against the Christian faith.

I'm not sure that those of a shallow or superficial walk could answer such a question knowing that torture, and often slow, cruel death awaits.

You're last question brings to mind the Islamists that martyr themselves. I am assuming that you might have this in mind. I'm only considering those that were martyred for Christ and His Name.

Of course this also brings to mind those "christians" killed during the crusades. Perhaps this is your reference. Were they really martyrs? I don't believe so.

I suppose believing that you have died for Christ and actually dying for Christ can be two separate things. However, the accounts of martyrs in this book are quite different from someone dying while murdering there fellow man while using the name of Christ.

Studying church history, with respect to the various Catholic onslaughts, coupled with a study into the great whore of The Book of Revelation, leads me to consider these, and other martyrs at the hands of the catholic church, to be valid in God's sight, despite the potential for doctrinal shortcomings with respect to the plan of salvation. I have to believe that these accounts are of those that were in a sincere and personal walk with Christ to some degree when they were given an ultimatum. God Bless, Theo.