View Full Version : His or Not His?: God is pouring out His Spirit
The baptism of the Holy Spirit is defined by many as that work whereby the Spirit of God places the believer into union with Christ and into union with other believers in the Body of Christ at the moment of salvation.
1 Corinthians 12:12-13 and Romans 6:1-4 are the central passages in the Bible where we find this doctrine. 1 Corinthians 12:13 states, "For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.
NOW IF THIS BE TRUE ....
and Wikipedia and other sources report:
The largest Pentecostal denominations in the United States are the Assemblies of God, the Church of God in Christ, New Testament Church, Church of God (Cleveland), Pentecostal Assemblies of the World, Assemblies of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the United Pentecostal Church. According to a Spring 1998 article in Christian History, there are about 11,000 different Pentecostal or charismatic denominations worldwide.
The size of Pentecostalism in the U.S. is estimated to be more than 20 million including approximately 918,000 (4%) of the Hispanic-American population, counting all unaffiliated congregations, although the numbers are uncertain, in part because some tenets of Pentecostalism are held by members of non-Pentecostal denominations in what has been called the charismatic movement. Toronto Canada, has a large Pentecostal population. The influence of immigrants from Jamaica, Africa, Latin America, Korea and basically everywhere, have created diverse churches throughout the city.
Pentecostalism was estimated to number around 115 million followers worldwide in 2000; lower estimates place the figure near to 22 million (eg. Cambridge Encyclopedia), while the highest estimates apparently place the figure between 400 and 600 million. The great majority of Pentecostals are to be found in Developing Countries (see the Statistics subsection below), although much of their international leadership is still North American. Pentecostalism is sometimes referred to as the "third force of Christianity.
If this be true .... and we assume these millions, for the most part, have received the baptism of the Holy Ghost .... ARE THEY HIS OR NOT HIS???
What say ye?
whollyHis
03-04-2007, 11:33 AM
The Name of Jesus is what sets His children apart- not the Holy Ghost. IMO
mizpeh
03-04-2007, 11:40 AM
They are His.
They are His.
Care to elaborate Mizpeh.
chosenbyone
03-04-2007, 03:34 PM
I believe that God is the only one that knows for sure who would enter into his kingdom. I believe in the Apostolic doctrine, but I know that God's grace and mercy are limitless.
"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life." John 6:47
I believe that God is the only one that knows for sure who would enter into his kingdom. I believe in the Apostolic doctrine, but I know that God's grace and mercy are limitless.
"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life." John 6:47
I agree Chosen ... only God knows for sure ....
but Paul seems to be saying that all Spirit-filled Christians are baptized into one body .... 1 Corinthians 12:13 states, "For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.
This same verse is used by many to argue that Holy Ghost baptism is required for salvation.
but my question is not about whether or not they are saved ...
but if they are part of the Body ...
denominations and organizations have decided with whom they will fellowship and who they consider as part of the Body ... so the question still remains ARE THEY OR THEY NOT HIS?
Well, I am upset! I re-wrote history on wiki a few months ago. Someone has changed what I wrote!
Then do your homework partner ... Everyone from the "trusted' and "reliable" New York Times to the National Inquirer ... knows about the explosive growth of Pentecostalism ....
I did my homework. Someone completely blotted out my contributions, erasing the merger history of the P.A.J.C. and the P.C.I. *shrugs*
You may want ask J.L. Hall about it.
See: http://www.upci.org/historical/pioneers/articles/merger/rdtmrgr.htm
ManOfWord
03-04-2007, 03:52 PM
If God is omniscient and is the ONLY one who can baptize someone with Himself, then it would stand to reason that they are completely accepted by Him. To presume otherwise, IMO, is dangerous, ludicrous and just plain not smart.
How can a mere man or woman conclude that God gives His spirit to someone whom He has not accepted except by the acceptance of man's interpretation of scripture instead of God's actions. Our interpretation needs to line up with God's actions or we don't correctly understand His word.
It's not rocket science..........they are HIS!!!!!! :D
Bryan
03-04-2007, 03:52 PM
You may want ask J.L. Hall about it.
See: http://www.upci.org/historical/pioneers/articles/merger/rdtmrgr.htm
I'm not asking him anything...
If God is omniscient and is the ONLY one who can baptize someone with Himself, then it would stand to reason that they are completely accepted by Him. To presume otherwise, IMO, is dangerous, ludicrous and just plain not smart.
How can a mere man or woman conclude that God gives His spirit to someone whom He has not accepted except by the acceptance of man's interpretation of scripture instead of God's actions. Our interpretation needs to line up with God's actions or we don't correctly understand His word.
It's not rocket science..........they are HIS!!!!!! :D
Some would say they received a false Holy Ghost ... while others say that they've had just had an experience w/ God ... what say ye, MOW???? :dunno
ManOfWord
03-04-2007, 04:07 PM
Some would say they received a false Holy Ghost ... while others say that they've had just had an experience w/ God ... what say ye, MOW???? :dunno
Ahhhhh......I say, "Check the fruit!" It is not hard to see who has the fruit, tongues or no tongues. I've seen people with more of the fruit of the spirit who didn't speak with tongues than some who boasted of their tongues and even Jesus' name experience.
I'll take someone with a "walk" over someone with a "talk" any day of the week.
ManOfWord
03-04-2007, 04:08 PM
Also, someone saying they received a "false" Holy Ghost is in direct contradiction of the scriptures if they are seeking the HG. You can't get a counterfeit if you're seeking the real thing. "How much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Ghost to them that ask Him?"
Is this church congregation .... HIS OR NOT HIS ???... they are trinitarian ... but are Holy Ghost baptized and are strict adherents to many holiness dress standards .....
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/khtml/2007/01/14/nyregion/20070114_EN-STOREFRONT_FEATURE.html
ManOfWord
03-04-2007, 04:23 PM
Is this church congregation .... HIS OR NOT HIS ???... they are trinitarian ... but are Holy Ghost baptized and are strict adherents to many holiness dress standards .....
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/khtml/2007/01/14/nyregion/20070114_EN-STOREFRONT_FEATURE.html
Well, after watching most of the video, I can conclude that these people are indeed, heathens! They are in a false religion and have been lead astray by the devil. They don't preach Jesus' name baptism and don't understand the Godhead correctly! I don't know why God fills them with the Holy Ghost other than maybe to mock their shallow commitment and false doctrine. They will split hell wide open on judgement day!!!!
At least that is what some will think of them...............but not me and I don't think Jesus does either.
May the Lord bless them and lead them into all truth! But if not into the truth that we know, may He bless them according to His will!!!!
Brett Prince
03-04-2007, 04:26 PM
They need to obey the Word and be baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ, receive the revelation of the Oneness of the Godhead--and establish some separation in their lives. Are they God's? Ask HIM!
chosenbyone
03-04-2007, 04:36 PM
Is this church congregation .... HIS OR NOT HIS ???... they are trinitarian ... but are Holy Ghost baptized and are strict adherents to many holiness dress standards .....
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/khtml/2007/01/14/nyregion/20070114_EN-STOREFRONT_FEATURE.html
Brother -
That was off the hook! I felt the Holy Ghost! Thank you for sharing this with us, Dan.
Great job!!!
Our God is an AWESOME God!!!
Bryan
03-04-2007, 04:39 PM
They need to obey the Word and be baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ, receive the revelation of the Oneness of the Godhead--and establish some separation in their lives. Are they God's? Ask HIM!
They should become legalists??
Brother -
That was off the hook! I felt the Holy Ghost! Thank you for sharing this with us, Dan.
Great job!!!
Our God is an AWESOME God!!!
Every time ... I watch it ... I weep Chosen ...
I love my city and my people ....
Brett Prince
03-04-2007, 04:40 PM
They should become legalists??
No sir. But, many denominational folks are so into stuff that is so worldly it is unreal. Of course, I understand your definition of legalism to be somewhat different from mine. :D
Bryan
03-04-2007, 04:42 PM
No sir. But, many denominational folks are so into stuff that is so worldly it is unreal. Of course, I understand your definition of legalism to be somewhat different from mine. :D
Apostolic youth fall into this category many times over. What is worse, to have some truth and fall, or to have "all" truth and fall?
Brett Prince
03-04-2007, 04:47 PM
Apostolic youth fall into this category many times over. What is worse, to have some truth and fall, or to have "all" truth and fall?
Neither is worse. To fall is still to fall.
And, yes, you are correct...many Apostolic youth do fall into "this" category. But, one of the reasons is that, though they have the dress on, or the sleeves down to the elbow, they still are attempting to mimic the Britney Spears and others like her of the world in their styles, their interactions with others (talking lingo here), and are "up" on whatever is the going thing anyhow. That's not separation. Not doing so is NOT legalism. Doing so is spiritual suicide. Not doing so is just good common sense.
chosenbyone
03-04-2007, 04:48 PM
Every time ... I watch it ... I weep Chosen ...
I love my city and my people ....
I can see why you would love those people. They are reaching out to the lost and hurting community around them.
Why is it that people can't see the move of God when it's so vividly clear? God is going to move right past all the ones who are so blinded by their traditions! I want to be in sync with what God is doing!
I can see why you would love those people. They are reaching out to the lost and hurting community around them.
Why is it that people can't see the move of God when it's so vividly clear? God is going to move right past all the ones who are so blinded by their traditions! I want to be in sync with what God is doing!
Chosen ... some would argue w/ you that God never changes ... and so we must not.
but I submit to you that this is indeed true ...He never changes ...
but he's also ever moving ... He is the I am ...
always in the present moving towards the future ...
he's not stuck in the past like some are ... stuck on the light of true revelation that He has shone .... of His infiniteness.
God is moving over the earth ...
He was moving in Genesis ... over the face of the waters ...
He was moving when all ... Moses could do was catch a glimpse of his back ...
In the NT ... he was moving ....when said "My Father is working right now, and so am I." ....
He moved in Pentecost like a rushing mighty wind
... He's moving today ...
and moving towards His coming ....
If we are not careful ... we will miss His moving today ... March 4, 2007.
chosenbyone
03-04-2007, 05:02 PM
Chosen ... some would argue w/ you that God never changes ... and so we must not.
but I submit to you that this is indeed true ...
but he's also ever moving ... He is the I am ...
always in the present moving towards the future ...
he's not stuck in the past like some are ... stuck on the light of true revelation that He has shone .... of His infiniteness.
God is moving over the earth ...
He was moving in Genesis ... over the face of the waters ...
He was moving when all ... Moses could do was catch a glimpse of his back ...
In the NT ... he was moving ....when said "My Father is working right now, and so am I." ....
He moved in Pentecost like a rushing mighty wind
... He's moving today ...
and moving towards His coming ....
If we are not careful ... we will miss His moving today ... March 4, 2007.
TRUTH
Bryan
03-04-2007, 05:06 PM
Is this church congregation .... HIS OR NOT HIS ???... they are trinitarian ... but are Holy Ghost baptized and are strict adherents to many holiness dress standards .....
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/khtml/2007/01/14/nyregion/20070114_EN-STOREFRONT_FEATURE.html
If I'm not mistaken, that is the same church from this article..
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/16/nyregion/16storefront.html?ex=1173157200&en=e015635eada647b7&ei=5070
mizpeh
03-04-2007, 07:26 PM
Care to elaborate Mizpeh.
Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
They belong to God and hopefully they will go on into further truth and be baptized in the name of the Lord.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Ro 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
J-Roc
03-04-2007, 08:12 PM
Ahhhhh......I say, "Check the fruit!" It is not hard to see who has the fruit, tongues or no tongues. I've seen people with more of the fruit of the spirit who didn't speak with tongues than some who boasted of their tongues and even Jesus' name experience.
I'll take someone with a "walk" over someone with a "talk" any day of the week.
Was going to post that but ya already said it...two :highfive :highfive and a thumbs up!
PS: sandusky, huh? was there a few years ago...went to a six flags (or some other amusement park, forget if it was S.F.)...
J-Roc
03-04-2007, 08:35 PM
Ahhh...what a wonderful video...that Pastor truly demonstrates his love for God's sheep...these are the children of God worshipping him in spirit and truth!
Bump for Mizpeh ... see your own post #27
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