View Full Version : The UPCI Needs a Healer
rkentsmith
10-29-2007, 08:55 PM
The United Pentecostal Church Needs a Healer
Shocked silence filled the conference when the announcement was made….
The resolution passed….
Those there, will never forget the sudden vacuum….
Time only will tell what really happened in that moment….
Some declare Ichabod…..
Others Revival….
I personally feel our movement was swept with a spirit of confusion….
We all have been confused since the vote….
We have all grieved….
However….
Such a decision will not be without consequence….
The consequence may well be more painful than any really understood….
Unity has been called for….
Global Impact desired….
But now division is greater than ever….
Now we hear of a great convocation in Tulsa…..
Great men from the east coast are leaving….
Great men from the west are leaving….
Great men from the south as well….
Great men from all over…..
Leaving……
Will the UPCI loose 100 ….500….1000….
Or more….
Now, many men who favored the resolution realize that those leaving had promised to do so before the vote….
The leavers are only keeping promises….
I have not heard from any who regret voting No…
I have heard from many who regret voting Yes…
“If we had only known”, one said an hour ago….
Brethren it appears there will be a major exodus…..
Sadly all will suffer…
I have come to a new conclusion today…
We need a healer…
Blessed are the peacemakers….
The United Pentecostal Church Needs A Healer….
Brethren….
Some are saying the 2000 seat convention center in Tulsa will not be large enough…
What if such predictions are true and we see over 1000 UPCI credentialed men make some sort of commitment to leave….
The UPCI will suffer greatly….
The United Pentecostal Church Needs A Healer….
If indeed unity is a mandate….
Then should not unity come from World Evangelism Center….
Indeed the United Pentecostal Church Needs A Healer….
General Superintendent Haney….
Lead the way to healing….
Go to Tulsa and tell the brethren you will lead the charge in reversing Tulsa’s decision….
Pastor Mangun….
Use your platform this year at Because of the Times to help heal the UPCI….
Without a healer….
We are divided and weakened….
Two organizations will never be united….
Rather both….
Untied….
The United Pentecostal Church Needs A Healer….
Is there a voice….
Is there a man …..
Who can stand and serve as healer….
Somewhere within the UPCI is a man with a voice who is able to help bring healing….
Will the leadership come from WEC….
The General Superintendent….
The General Secretary….
Alexandria….
Indianapolis….
Home or Foreign Missions….
Indeed the UPCI must have a healer from within….
The healing will not come from those convening in Tulsa….
The course they choose was selected for them….
Brethren….
The United Pentecostal Church International Needs a Healer….
RKS
BoredOutOfMyMind
10-29-2007, 08:58 PM
Great words, and those decrying fast action themselves help to reopen a wound that would partially heal given time.
Others will grant no time to heal these grievous wounds.
Nahum
10-29-2007, 08:59 PM
It will never be reversed.
Never.
Very eloquent words but I think you are missing some very key points.
This "division" was not brought about by this resolution. The unhappiness of conservatives has been growing for some time. They have railed against the use of video in any capacity including image magnification at large events, the style of music, any synchronized motions associated with music, any lighting effects, etc.
The resolution may be fairly characterized as the "line in the sand" or for some "the straw that broke the camels back" but never the less the resolution itself only exposed this division that has been growing for years.
The positive outlook is that both groups should now find more unity. The conservatives are leaving to chart their own path with an org. that will surely preach against the evils of exposed elbows and toes and the moderate / libs left in the UPC can move forward in a biblical and unified manner fulfilling their view of carrying out the Great Commission.
BoredOutOfMyMind
10-29-2007, 09:04 PM
Very eloquent words but I think you are missing some very key points.
Interesting you state "missing some key points" then you castigate the conservative side.
What of the Moderates who really had reservations about this ordeal prior also and feel now on a sinking island?
It needs a strong voice and there needs to be a healing for all involved.
Nahum
10-29-2007, 09:04 PM
Hmm, Bro Smith thinks the only way healing can come is to capitulate to those who are leaving. Somehow that seems wrong to me.
Why not stay and work things out?
It will never be reversed.
Never.
Are we supposed to take the words of a preacher whose avatar is of himself baptizing a fish seriously?:hypercoffee
Nahum
10-29-2007, 09:07 PM
Are we supposed to take the words of a preacher whose avatar is of himself baptizing a fish seriously?:hypercoffee
What can I say? I am a fundamentalist.:pirate
stmatthew
10-29-2007, 09:08 PM
Very eloquent words but I think you are missing some very key points.
This "division" was not brought about by this resolution. The unhappiness of conservatives has been growing for some time. They have railed against the use of video in any capacity including image magnification at large events, the style of music, any synchronized motions associated with music, any lighting effects, etc.
The resolution may be fairly characterized as the "line in the sand" or for some "the straw that broke the camels back" but never the less the resolution itself only exposed this division that has been growing for years.
The positive outlook is that both groups should now find more unity. The conservatives are leaving to chart their own path with an org. that will surely preach against the evils of exposed elbows and toes and the moderate / libs left in the UPC can move forward in a biblical and unified manner fulfilling their view of carrying out the Great Commission.
You know, I have to do the Phil Jones here and question you skewed view on this. You paint the Conservatives as folks that are just preaching about elbows and toes, and then show the mod/libs as being the "biblical" ones, and the ones that are "going and carrying out the Great Commission". I for one think that you underestimate the role that many conservative churches have played in carrying the gospel into all the world. You post is very "one sided", and is in no way balanced.
I give you an :scorebad
Interesting you state "missing some key points" then you castigate the conservative side.
What of the Moderates who really had reservations about this ordeal prior also and feel now on a sinking island?
It needs a strong voice and there needs to be a healing for all involved.
Not only did I castigate the conservative side I also gave a falsley optimistic view of the UPC that is left! I do think this "shedding" process is a key first step though in the UPC moving away from the corporate legalism. It will just take another 15 or 20 years though to really see any movement I fear.
If it is any consolation I think the conservatives are absolutely right that res 4 opens up the door to other things. That is good from my perspective. I actually forsee a world where a UPC pastors wife won't react in horror when handed a grape or cherry chapstick as a potential purchase.
You know, I have to do the Phil Jones here and question you skewed view on this. You paint the Conservatives as folks that are just preaching about elbows and toes, and then show the mod/libs as being the "biblical" ones, and the ones that are "going and carrying out the Great Commission". I for one think that you underestimate the role that many conservative churches have played in carrying the gospel into all the world. You post is very "one sided", and is in no way balanced.
I give you an :scorebad
You are correct and I addressed this point that BORED brought up. We were probably typing at the same time!
Bottom line is that I feel that I characterized the vast majority of the conservatives correctly but was entirely too optimisitc about my description of the UPCers left.
Praxeas
10-29-2007, 09:37 PM
Some of these men were planning on leaving anyways. Why should it be a reversal that heals? The men that left don't like those ones that voted this in. They don't want to stay in fellowship with them. They've already have been having their own camp meetings and such.
BoredOutOfMyMind
10-29-2007, 09:40 PM
Some of these men were planning on leaving anyways. Why should it be a reversal that heals? The men that left don't like those ones that voted this in. They don't want to stay in fellowship with them. They've already have been having their own camp meetings and such.
This view is not the same on a national basis Prax, but the wounds were felt around the world.
Pastor Keith
10-29-2007, 09:42 PM
The United Pentecostal Church Needs a Healer
Shocked silence filled the conference when the announcement was made….
The resolution passed….
Those there, will never forget the sudden vacuum….
Time only will tell what really happened in that moment….
Some declare Ichabod…..
Others Revival….
I personally feel our movement was swept with a spirit of confusion….
We all have been confused since the vote….
We have all grieved….
However….
Such a decision will not be without consequence….
The consequence may well be more painful than any really understood….
Unity has been called for….
Global Impact desired….
But now division is greater than ever….
Now we hear of a great convocation in Tulsa…..
Great men from the east coast are leaving….
Great men from the west are leaving….
Great men from the south as well….
Great men from all over…..
Leaving……
Will the UPCI loose 100 ….500….1000….
Or more….
Now, many men who favored the resolution realize that those leaving had promised to do so before the vote….
The leavers are only keeping promises….
I have not heard from any who regret voting No…
I have heard from many who regret voting Yes…
“If we had only known”, one said an hour ago….
Brethren it appears there will be a major exodus…..
Sadly all will suffer…
I have come to a new conclusion today…
We need a healer…
Blessed are the peacemakers….
The United Pentecostal Church Needs A Healer….
Brethren….
Some are saying the 2000 seat convention center in Tulsa will not be large enough…
What if such predictions are true and we see over 1000 UPCI credentialed men make some sort of commitment to leave….
The UPCI will suffer greatly….
The United Pentecostal Church Needs A Healer….
If indeed unity is a mandate….
Then should not unity come from World Evangelism Center….
Indeed the United Pentecostal Church Needs A Healer….
General Superintendent Haney….
Lead the way to healing….
Go to Tulsa and tell the brethren you will lead the charge in reversing Tulsa’s decision….
Pastor Mangun….
Use your platform this year at Because of the Times to help heal the UPCI….
Without a healer….
We are divided and weakened….
Two organizations will never be united….
Rather both….
Untied….
The United Pentecostal Church Needs A Healer….
Is there a voice….
Is there a man …..
Who can stand and serve as healer….
Somewhere within the UPCI is a man with a voice who is able to help bring healing….
Will the leadership come from WEC….
The General Superintendent….
The General Secretary….
Alexandria….
Indianapolis….
Home or Foreign Missions….
Indeed the UPCI must have a healer from within….
The healing will not come from those convening in Tulsa….
The course they choose was selected for them….
Brethren….
The United Pentecostal Church International Needs a Healer….
RKS
Not to be a smart alec, but do you actually believe that it was United before the vote, in reality is only will validate those who leave and those who stay.
Yes a healer is needed, we need more of Jesus and less of the stuff that gets in his way, false holiness and real worldliness, alot of blame on both sides.
I can't get in the UPC because the guy in my city wont let me, do you think that represents a healthy organization, this happened before the vote, guess what he will most likely leave, now I might if I so choose be able to get into a organization that I owe much to and owes much to me.
Now that the vote is a fete cumpli and the org is about to split because a divisive spirit has dominated the hearts of many the right ... we ask for a healer? ..... The right was asking for a purging before that fateful Friday morning ...
God is healing by subtraction.
COOPER
10-29-2007, 09:50 PM
The United Pentecostal Church Needs a Healer
Shocked silence filled the conference when the announcement was made….
The resolution passed….
Those there, will never forget the sudden vacuum….
Time only will tell what really happened in that moment….
Some declare Ichabod…..
Others Revival….
I personally feel our movement was swept with a spirit of confusion….
We all have been confused since the vote….
We have all grieved….
However….
Such a decision will not be without consequence….
The consequence may well be more painful than any really understood….
Unity has been called for….
Global Impact desired….
But now division is greater than ever….
Now we hear of a great convocation in Tulsa…..
Great men from the east coast are leaving….
Great men from the west are leaving….
Great men from the south as well….
Great men from all over…..
Leaving……
Will the UPCI loose 100 ….500….1000….
Or more….
Now, many men who favored the resolution realize that those leaving had promised to do so before the vote….
The leavers are only keeping promises….
I have not heard from any who regret voting No…
I have heard from many who regret voting Yes…
“If we had only known”, one said an hour ago….
Brethren it appears there will be a major exodus…..
Sadly all will suffer…
I have come to a new conclusion today…
We need a healer…
Blessed are the peacemakers….
The United Pentecostal Church Needs A Healer….
Brethren….
Some are saying the 2000 seat convention center in Tulsa will not be large enough…
What if such predictions are true and we see over 1000 UPCI credentialed men make some sort of commitment to leave….
The UPCI will suffer greatly….
The United Pentecostal Church Needs A Healer….
If indeed unity is a mandate….
Then should not unity come from World Evangelism Center….
Indeed the United Pentecostal Church Needs A Healer….
General Superintendent Haney….
Lead the way to healing….
Go to Tulsa and tell the brethren you will lead the charge in reversing Tulsa’s decision….
Pastor Mangun….
Use your platform this year at Because of the Times to help heal the UPCI….
Without a healer….
We are divided and weakened….
Two organizations will never be united….
Rather both….
Untied….
The United Pentecostal Church Needs A Healer….
Is there a voice….
Is there a man …..
Who can stand and serve as healer….
Somewhere within the UPCI is a man with a voice who is able to help bring healing….
Will the leadership come from WEC….
The General Superintendent….
The General Secretary….
Alexandria….
Indianapolis….
Home or Foreign Missions….
Indeed the UPCI must have a healer from within….
The healing will not come from those convening in Tulsa….
The course they choose was selected for them….
Brethren….
The United Pentecostal Church International Needs a Healer….
RKS
:snapoutAnd all of this for what?..:sos....TV? .:drama
COOPER
10-29-2007, 09:52 PM
It's about time for change and I say God bless it!
Joseph Miller
10-29-2007, 09:56 PM
The United Pentecostal Church Needs a Healer
Shocked silence filled the conference when the announcement was made….
The resolution passed….
Those there, will never forget the sudden vacuum….
Time only will tell what really happened in that moment….
Some declare Ichabod…..
Others Revival….
I personally feel our movement was swept with a spirit of confusion….
We all have been confused since the vote….
We have all grieved….
However….
Such a decision will not be without consequence….
The consequence may well be more painful than any really understood….
Unity has been called for….
Global Impact desired….
But now division is greater than ever….
Now we hear of a great convocation in Tulsa…..
Great men from the east coast are leaving….
Great men from the west are leaving….
Great men from the south as well….
Great men from all over…..
Leaving……
Will the UPCI loose 100 ….500….1000….
Or more….
Now, many men who favored the resolution realize that those leaving had promised to do so before the vote….
The leavers are only keeping promises….
I have not heard from any who regret voting No…
I have heard from many who regret voting Yes…
“If we had only known”, one said an hour ago….
Brethren it appears there will be a major exodus…..
Sadly all will suffer…
I have come to a new conclusion today…
We need a healer…
Blessed are the peacemakers….
The United Pentecostal Church Needs A Healer….
Brethren….
Some are saying the 2000 seat convention center in Tulsa will not be large enough…
What if such predictions are true and we see over 1000 UPCI credentialed men make some sort of commitment to leave….
The UPCI will suffer greatly….
The United Pentecostal Church Needs A Healer….
If indeed unity is a mandate….
Then should not unity come from World Evangelism Center….
Indeed the United Pentecostal Church Needs A Healer….
General Superintendent Haney….
Lead the way to healing….
Go to Tulsa and tell the brethren you will lead the charge in reversing Tulsa’s decision….
Pastor Mangun….
Use your platform this year at Because of the Times to help heal the UPCI….
Without a healer….
We are divided and weakened….
Two organizations will never be united….
Rather both….
Untied….
The United Pentecostal Church Needs A Healer….
Is there a voice….
Is there a man …..
Who can stand and serve as healer….
Somewhere within the UPCI is a man with a voice who is able to help bring healing….
Will the leadership come from WEC….
The General Superintendent….
The General Secretary….
Alexandria….
Indianapolis….
Home or Foreign Missions….
Indeed the UPCI must have a healer from within….
The healing will not come from those convening in Tulsa….
The course they choose was selected for them….
Brethren….
The United Pentecostal Church International Needs a Healer….
RKS
So we need to limit how people can spread the gospel in order to have healing and unity? I don't think so. I think that people need to stay in and allow their neighbor to do what they feel is the best way to spread the gospel and show the world that christians can stand in unity as brothers even when we don't agree every issue.
Felicity
10-29-2007, 10:00 PM
Bro. Smith.......
I'm wondering. What do you think a man could do to bring about "healing" at this point. Hundreds have left in the past over resolutions that won a yes or no vote. The fracture was never repaired -- not even when apologies were issued by highly respected men and leaders.
So, I'm wondering ....... what do you think could be said or done to repair any fracture damage done as a result of the implementation of Res. 4?
pelathais
10-29-2007, 10:01 PM
Hmm, Bro Smith thinks the only way healing can come is to capitulate to those who are leaving. Somehow that seems wrong to me.
Why not stay and work things out?
We have always "capitulated" to that crowd. This is the first time that the movement has ever stood up to them. They have so completely changed the face of Pentecost over the last 62 years that most people don't even recognize what the Fundamental Doctrine was formulated for.
Now, we're told that some of them were on the way out all along. They have impugned their brethren here with slander ("cleavage and 'unmentionables' on the platform...") Why have we gone to such great lengths to placate a crowd that never accepted us as brethren and never supported our efforts and has gone to such great lengths to malign us?
It may be that they "went out from us" but "they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out." 1 John 1:29
I don't know RKS, and I don't know if what his heart cries for isn't already being supplied, but just silently and in a low key fashion. Those that "won" in Tampa aren't the type to do a little dance when they know that their victory came at the cost of the feelings of men that they counted as brethren. That's why they have been low key in the things they say and have done so far.
If you want to hear from "WEC, Indianapolis or Alexandria" you may need to give them a call. They don't appear to be doing any more politicing now than they did before the vote. They seem to fear going back on their oaths not to "cause division" in the body. Meanwhile others are using the mailing list to do just the opposite.
And notice the little dance the "Tulsa guys" do whenever the get on here and bring it up. It's evident where the division and the wounds have come from over the last 60+ years.
As far as where the healing comes from, that's all of us. Stand tall and do your forebears and the Lord Himself proud. Don't dance over those who may depart, but work to bring new ones in - then rejoice!
Nahum
10-29-2007, 10:04 PM
BOSM
BrotherEastman
10-29-2007, 10:04 PM
BOSM
BOSM?
COOPER
10-29-2007, 10:09 PM
BOSM
Broadcast On Sunday Ministries
Felicity
10-29-2007, 10:11 PM
It's certainly interesting to sit where I'm at and read and hear all the comments being made.
I know enough to know that the "issue" isn't always necessarily the issue. Certainly not all of it anyhow.
This year was the first time legalism was challenged. Legalism loses every challenge because it is based on faulty premises. The same legalistic spirit who can scare the "hell" out of people could not use the same intimidation tactics with their peers. The moderates realized no matter what they did, the legalists would not be satisfied until every opinion contrary to theirs was destroyed.
crakjak
10-29-2007, 10:33 PM
Hmm, Bro Smith thinks the only way healing can come is to capitulate to those who are leaving. Somehow that seems wrong to me.
Why not stay and work things out?
Isn't this what has happened in the past, yet no unity was to be found?
BRO. RKS...
I love you...and I know you love me....
What has happened will turn out to be a very healthy thing for ALL involved.
It will NEVER be reversed...there is no turning back.
Attitude will be our altitude!
The far right has wanted their own thing for years....
They could not get elected in, so they feel its best to move on....
MOST of what we are seeing is political jockeying.....for positions.....positions they could have not gotten had they stayed in.
I love these men and wish them well...BUT...the future of the United Pentecostal Church is brighter then it has ever been...from the merger of 1945 to present...WE have never been more poised to win the lost and impact our world.
Just sit back,,,take a deep breath...keep winning Conroe...BUT watch...you will see...its gonna be great!
My Respect
Bro. Dan
pelathais
10-29-2007, 10:48 PM
Broadcast On Sunday Ministries
You gotta help me and Easty out with this one... we're both "slow" guys.
BOSM and/or "Broadcast On Sunday Ministries" ???
The United Pentecostal Church Needs a Healer
Shocked silence filled the conference when the announcement was made….
The resolution passed….
Those there, will never forget the sudden vacuum….
Time only will tell what really happened in that moment….
Some declare Ichabod…..
Others Revival….
I personally feel our movement was swept with a spirit of confusion….
We all have been confused since the vote….
We have all grieved….
However….
Such a decision will not be without consequence….
The consequence may well be more painful than any really understood….
Unity has been called for….
Global Impact desired….
But now division is greater than ever….
Now we hear of a great convocation in Tulsa…..
Great men from the east coast are leaving….
Great men from the west are leaving….
Great men from the south as well….
Great men from all over…..
Leaving……
Will the UPCI loose 100 ….500….1000….
Or more….
Now, many men who favored the resolution realize that those leaving had promised to do so before the vote….
The leavers are only keeping promises….
I have not heard from any who regret voting No…
I have heard from many who regret voting Yes…
“If we had only known”, one said an hour ago….
Brethren it appears there will be a major exodus…..
Sadly all will suffer…
I have come to a new conclusion today…
We need a healer…
Blessed are the peacemakers….
The United Pentecostal Church Needs A Healer….
Brethren….
Some are saying the 2000 seat convention center in Tulsa will not be large enough…
What if such predictions are true and we see over 1000 UPCI credentialed men make some sort of commitment to leave….
The UPCI will suffer greatly….
The United Pentecostal Church Needs A Healer….
If indeed unity is a mandate….
Then should not unity come from World Evangelism Center….
Indeed the United Pentecostal Church Needs A Healer….
General Superintendent Haney….
Lead the way to healing….
Go to Tulsa and tell the brethren you will lead the charge in reversing Tulsa’s decision….
Pastor Mangun….
Use your platform this year at Because of the Times to help heal the UPCI….
Without a healer….
We are divided and weakened….
Two organizations will never be united….
Rather both….
Untied….
The United Pentecostal Church Needs A Healer….
Is there a voice….
Is there a man …..
Who can stand and serve as healer….
Somewhere within the UPCI is a man with a voice who is able to help bring healing….
Will the leadership come from WEC….
The General Superintendent….
The General Secretary….
Alexandria….
Indianapolis….
Home or Foreign Missions….
Indeed the UPCI must have a healer from within….
The healing will not come from those convening in Tulsa….
The course they choose was selected for them….
Brethren….
The United Pentecostal Church International Needs a Healer….
RKS
You sound like JFK. "Ask not what the UPC can do for you, but what you can do for the UPC?"
Why is it that men will follow what was before them because the men had vision for their day and time.
Then men continue to follow the old beat down path.
Then when men of God hear again the voice of God a fresh.
They then say it is not of God!
A fire will heal the land, it adds nutrients to the soil that will bring a greener forest to thrive.
Even lightening adds nitrogen to the soil that is needed.
Lightening needs to strike.
A healing will not take place nor will unity until their is a clearing of the land.
Once again even Jesus spoke from the boat so the his voice, the voice of the God could be carried and amplified so the masses could hear him.
If there would have been TV in his day he would have spoke for the whole world to hear him....
In Milwaukee they lower the radio broadcast waves after 8PM.
It is the FCC regulation.
Why because stations with the same call numbers get crossed over the lake.
I hear stations at 10PM from Detroit like they are Milwaukee stations.
Because sould and radio waves carry futher at night accross the water....
Many of times Jesus spoke it was in the evening from a boat...
Makes sense to me.....
Use what is available in your time....
Ichabod
10-29-2007, 11:06 PM
Now, many men who favored the resolution realize that those leaving had promised to do so before the vote….
The leavers are only keeping promises….
I have not heard from any who regret voting No…
I have heard from many who regret voting Yes…
“If we had only known”, one said an hour ago….
Could it be that many of the regrets is because they have hurt their brothers? Not that they regret the vote. I think most will really say that they don't want these brothers leaving. It will hurt, but it is a choise not a requirement for these people to leave.
Could it be that many of the regrets is because they have hurt their brothers? Not that they regret the vote. I think most will really say that they don't want these brothers leaving. It will hurt, but it is a choise not a requirement for these people to leave.
I agree. I think a lot of the moderate brethern love their conservative brethern and honestly hate to see them leave. However I am not sure they are still willing to let the conservatives will dictate what everybody else does just to keep them on board. That day seems to have passed with this vote.
Praxeas
10-30-2007, 12:38 AM
This view is not the same on a national basis Prax, but the wounds were felt around the world.
I think it's irrational. Wounds? Wounds are when you find out your wife is sleeping with another man.
It's far far too much like the world to play the victim card. And to be sure the UPC like other church orgs have been reflecting the world. It's not about TV. It's not about dress. The world is the attitude.
We built our own "family" traditions, demanded everyone else follow them, then feel insulted when someone rejects them.
I've seen it happen on a local level when someone leaves our church because of standards.The church members feel insulted. It's the same feeling that causes Muslims to hack a family member to pieces for rejecting Islam for another religion. The tradition and the religion itself became more important than they should be. They became paradigms and eventually became "law"...
mfblume
10-30-2007, 12:54 AM
Very rhetorical first post. ...not in any way negating it's nature.
Irrellevant, I know. Carry on! :)
BRO. RKS...
I love you...and I know you love me....
What has happened will turn out to be a very healthy thing for ALL involved.
It will NEVER be reversed...there is no turning back.
Attitude will be our altitude!
The far right has wanted their own thing for years....
They could not get elected in, so they feel its best to move on....
MOST of what we are seeing is political jockeying.....for positions.....positions they could have not gotten had they stayed in.
I love these men and wish them well...BUT...the future of the United Pentecostal Church is brighter then it has ever been...from the merger of 1945 to present...WE have never been more poised to win the lost and impact our world.
Just sit back,,,take a deep breath...keep winning Conroe...BUT watch...you will see...its gonna be great!
My Respect
Bro. Dan
Dan you hit a home run on this one! You'll NEVER get any admission to this but truely, that sums it up in a nut shell. It was always be in the name of "standing for Truth" when in reality, most of it is a fight for power for most.
I told you all there was a split coming 4-5 years ago but you laughed and scorned me - I knew i was right because i saw it develop before my very eyes.
There is a shaking going on Everywhere, in every Apostolic organization and really, in all of christiandom.
look for some major things to be uncovered in the years to come. scoff if you want to but I will be right about it in the end and it will be those who proclaim to be most holy holy. unforunatley, a lot of laity that put their faith in Men will be hurt and disollusioned of course. But who can tell them anything at this point? you just have to let it runs its course
pelathais
10-30-2007, 01:58 AM
I think it's irrational. Wounds? Wounds are when you find out your wife is sleeping with another man.
It's far far too much like the world to play the victim card. And to be sure the UPC like other church orgs have been reflecting the world. It's not about TV. It's not about dress. The world is the attitude.
We built our own "family" traditions, demanded everyone else follow them, then feel insulted when someone rejects them.
I've seen it happen on a local level when someone leaves our church because of standards.The church members feel insulted. It's the same feeling that causes Muslims to hack a family member to pieces for rejecting Islam for another religion. The tradition and the religion itself became more important than they should be. They became paradigms and eventually became "law"...
That's some good points, there Prax. :thumbsup
timlan2057
10-30-2007, 04:13 AM
Hmm, Bro Smith thinks the only way healing can come is to capitulate to those who are leaving. Somehow that seems wrong to me.
You noticed that too, eh?
When these guys are on the losing end, they play the "victim" card like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton play the "race" card.
Back in those long-ago days of the fifties, at the height of the Cold War, when Soviet Communism was the big booger-bear, Richard Nixon was seeking advice before his historic trip to Moscow when he was Vice President to meet Khruschev.
He received this advice from (I believe) a dying Christian Herter, former Secretary of State, who said:
"The Communists keep probing as long as they encounter mush. Only when they finally encounter steel do they back off."
The radical conservative movement in the UPC has encountered mush the last 30 years or so and has kept pushing and probing.
Finally, in Tampa, they encountered steel.
So yes, like Al and Jesse, now is the time to play the "victim" card.
Sheltiedad
10-30-2007, 05:38 AM
The United Pentecostal Church Needs a Healer
Shocked silence filled the conference when the announcement was made….
The resolution passed….
Those there, will never forget the sudden vacuum….
Time only will tell what really happened in that moment….
Some declare Ichabod…..
Others Revival….
I personally feel our movement was swept with a spirit of confusion….
We all have been confused since the vote….
We have all grieved….
However….
Such a decision will not be without consequence….
The consequence may well be more painful than any really understood….
Unity has been called for….
Global Impact desired….
But now division is greater than ever….
Now we hear of a great convocation in Tulsa…..
Great men from the east coast are leaving….
Great men from the west are leaving….
Great men from the south as well….
Great men from all over…..
Leaving……
Will the UPCI loose 100 ….500….1000….
Or more….
Now, many men who favored the resolution realize that those leaving had promised to do so before the vote….
The leavers are only keeping promises….
I have not heard from any who regret voting No…
I have heard from many who regret voting Yes…
“If we had only known”, one said an hour ago….
Brethren it appears there will be a major exodus…..
Sadly all will suffer…
I have come to a new conclusion today…
We need a healer…
Blessed are the peacemakers….
The United Pentecostal Church Needs A Healer….
Brethren….
Some are saying the 2000 seat convention center in Tulsa will not be large enough…
What if such predictions are true and we see over 1000 UPCI credentialed men make some sort of commitment to leave….
The UPCI will suffer greatly….
The United Pentecostal Church Needs A Healer….
If indeed unity is a mandate….
Then should not unity come from World Evangelism Center….
Indeed the United Pentecostal Church Needs A Healer….
General Superintendent Haney….
Lead the way to healing….
Go to Tulsa and tell the brethren you will lead the charge in reversing Tulsa’s decision….
Pastor Mangun….
Use your platform this year at Because of the Times to help heal the UPCI….
Without a healer….
We are divided and weakened….
Two organizations will never be united….
Rather both….
Untied….
The United Pentecostal Church Needs A Healer….
Is there a voice….
Is there a man …..
Who can stand and serve as healer….
Somewhere within the UPCI is a man with a voice who is able to help bring healing….
Will the leadership come from WEC….
The General Superintendent….
The General Secretary….
Alexandria….
Indianapolis….
Home or Foreign Missions….
Indeed the UPCI must have a healer from within….
The healing will not come from those convening in Tulsa….
The course they choose was selected for them….
Brethren….
The United Pentecostal Church International Needs a Healer….
RKS
Thanks to this post, there aren't enough periods for the rest of us to use for the next three days
TRIPLE E
10-30-2007, 05:47 AM
Interesting you state "missing some key points" then you castigate the conservative side.
What of the Moderates who really had reservations about this ordeal prior also and feel now on a sinking island?
It needs a strong voice and there needs to be a healing for all involved.
That is true.As a moderate what are we to do? Without the conservative voice the pendulum will only swing more liberal and charismatic.
philjones
10-30-2007, 06:16 AM
That is true.As a moderate what are we to do? Without the conservative voice the pendulum will only swing more liberal and charismatic.
Actually, you are now the new ultra-con!:bdayparty
COOPER
10-30-2007, 06:46 AM
BOSM
Broadcast On Sunday Ministries
You gotta help me and Easty out with this one... we're both "slow" guys.
BOSM and/or "Broadcast On Sunday Ministries" ???
Broadcast On Sunday Ministries. :hypercoffee
philjones
10-30-2007, 06:50 AM
Broadcast On Sunday Ministries. :hypercoffee
Bunch Of Stupid Mess.:santathumb
Mr. Steinway
10-30-2007, 07:24 AM
That is true.As a moderate what are we to do? Without the conservative voice the pendulum will only swing more liberal and charismatic.
Why don't you be the conservative voice that keeps things in balance? :)
Mr. Steinway
10-30-2007, 07:33 AM
rkentsmith says a reversal of res #4 will bring healing.
Others say a reversal of the 1992 AS agreement will bring healing.
I'm sure you will find some that will say that a reversal of all resolutions since 1945 would bring healing!
In my opinion, what will bring healing is for a revival of humility to break out at the Tulsa meeting!
rkentsmith says a reversal of res #4 will bring healing.
Others say a reversal of the 1992 AS agreement will bring healing.
I'm sure you will find some that will say that a reversal of all resolutions since 1945 would bring healing!
In my opinion, what will bring healing is for a revival of humility to break out at the Tulsa meeting!
Don't hold your breath.
COOPER
10-30-2007, 07:38 AM
rkentsmith says a reversal of res #4 will bring healing.
Others say a reversal of the 1992 AS agreement will bring healing.
I'm sure you will find some that will say that a reversal of all resolutions since 1945 would bring healing!
In my opinion, what will bring healing is for a revival of humility to break out at the Tulsa meeting!
I believe Rkentsmith has a broken heart.
Mr. Steinway
10-30-2007, 07:40 AM
Don't hold your breath.
:D
rgcraig
10-30-2007, 07:44 AM
I think God is very disappointed in all this!
Here you have two groups of men that feel they are following God's lead, but they are going in two different directions.
God doesn't do that - - people do.
I think God is very disappointed in all this!
Here you have two groups of men that feel they are following God's lead, but they are going in two different directions.
God doesn't do that - - people do.
At first, I was going to say I disagree. That I dont think God is disappointed because I believe that God was the one who orchistrated this.
But then, I have to think that while I still believe that God was behind the vote, behind the desire that led to the vote, and behind what appears to be a parting of ways, that doesnt mean He is happy about it at all.
Folks want healing? here is an idea, repent. get down on your knees and beg God to forgive you for being willing to allow the politics of the organizatoin to sour to this point. Don't make a demand that someone come to you and appologize. good grief what a nutty way of viewing things.
Steve Epley
10-30-2007, 08:16 AM
At the tower of Babel when the language was confounded the folks there found those who spoke the same language which became their identity. Thus in these last days it is the same men of differing stripes are looking for those who speak the same language over the complete spectrum of Pentecost. Have you noticed NO cons have been preaching at Christ Church? Likes attract. Is this evil??? I think not. I believe the Lord is in this myself. :runhills:runhills If the passing of Res. 4 was the sole reason it would be foolish but everyone on each side knows this is NOT the reason but the last straw.
rgcraig
10-30-2007, 08:20 AM
At first, I was going to say I disagree. That I dont think God is disappointed because I believe that God was the one who orchistrated this.
But then, I have to think that while I still believe that God was behind the vote, behind the desire that led to the vote, and behind what appears to be a parting of ways, that doesnt mean He is happy about it at all.
Folks want healing? here is an idea, repent. get down on your knees and beg God to forgive you for being willing to allow the politics of the organizatoin to sour to this point. Don't make a demand that someone come to you and appologize. good grief what a nutty way of viewing things.
At the tower of Babel when the language was confounded the folks there found those who spoke the same language which became their identity. Thus in these last days it is the same men of differing stripes are looking for those who speak the same language over the complete spectrum of Pentecost. Have you noticed NO cons have been preaching at Christ Church? Likes attract. Is this evil??? I think not. I believe the Lord is in this myself. :runhills:runhills If the passing of Res. 4 was the sole reason it would be foolish but everyone on each side knows this is NOT the reason but the last straw.
That is exactly what I meant! The division is not the two different groups going their different ways - the division is how the men are handling it.
Blaming each other and pointing fingers is what I feel God is disappointed in.
Felicity
10-30-2007, 08:36 AM
I don't think God is disappointed. LOL. He's pretty knowledgeable about the ways of men. ;) :)
rgcraig
10-30-2007, 08:37 AM
I don't think God is disappointed. LOL. He's pretty knowledgeable about the ways of men. ;) :)
Oh please......God can be disappointed in the way men are acting. Remember what he did in the temple?
Mr. Steinway
10-30-2007, 08:40 AM
At the tower of Babel when the language was confounded the folks there found those who spoke the same language which became their identity. Thus in these last days it is the same men of differing stripes are looking for those who speak the same language over the complete spectrum of Pentecost. Have you noticed NO cons have been preaching at Christ Church? Likes attract. Is this evil??? I think not. I believe the Lord is in this myself. :runhills:runhills If the passing of Res. 4 was the sole reason it would be foolish but everyone on each side knows this is NOT the reason but the last straw.
Nearly all special speakers at Christ Church are non-Pentecostal, much less conservative Pentecostals!!
Steve Epley
10-30-2007, 08:44 AM
Nearly all special speakers at Christ Church are non-Pentecostal, much less conservative Pentecostals!!
If this is out of bounds forgive me I have no desire to offend you please. What about your grandchildren???????????? You and your wife have experienced the HGB doesn't it concern you that they might not ever hear or recieve it? Just say it is not necessary to be saved it is certainly necessary to live an overcoming life and the assistance in prayer? Again if this is too personal ignore it.
I don't think God is disappointed. LOL. He's pretty knowledgeable about the ways of men. ;) :)
Oh please......God can be disappointed in the way men are acting. Remember what he did in the temple?
I am with Renda on this one. I belive we have clear evidence of Gods dissappointment with mankind at different times.
I think the way some are acting right now, God is very dissapointed with them.
Felicity
10-30-2007, 08:50 AM
Oh please. :)
Felicity
10-30-2007, 08:51 AM
If this is out of bounds forgive me I have no desire to offend you please. What about your grandchildren???????????? You and your wife have experienced the HGB doesn't it concern you that they might not ever hear or recieve it? Just say it is not necessary to be saved it is certainly necessary to live an overcoming life and the assistance in prayer? Again if this is too personal ignore it.This is a MAJOR consideration Bro. Epley.
Oh please. :)
Thank you.
Ps, neither of us are saying Gods dissapointment is in the different direction. Just in the manner some have choesn to go about it.
Mr. Steinway
10-30-2007, 08:54 AM
If this is out of bounds forgive me I have no desire to offend you please. What about your grandchildren???????????? You and your wife have experienced the HGB doesn't it concern you that they might not ever hear or recieve it? Just say it is not necessary to be saved it is certainly necessary to live an overcoming life and the assistance in prayer? Again if this is too personal ignore it.
My son-in-law, who was raised Baptist, has been attending Christ Church with us for almost four years. A few months ago, I brought up HGB in a conversation that we were having, and he responded, "What's that?". :eek: I try to be very careful not to offend, but I do say how important that HGB is!
My children have all received the HGB, but not all of the spouses have. I do pray for my grandchildren! :)
Whole Hearted
10-30-2007, 08:55 AM
At the tower of Babel when the language was confounded the folks there found those who spoke the same language which became their identity. Thus in these last days it is the same men of differing stripes are looking for those who speak the same language over the complete spectrum of Pentecost. Have you noticed NO cons have been preaching at Christ Church? Likes attract. Is this evil??? I think not. I believe the Lord is in this myself. :runhills:runhills If the passing of Res. 4 was the sole reason it would be foolish but everyone on each side knows this is NOT the reason but the last straw.
:scoregood
good post elder
Joseph Miller
10-30-2007, 08:57 AM
My son-in-law, who was raised Baptist, has been attending Christ Church with us for almost four years. A few months ago, I brought up HGB in a conversation that we were having, and he responded, "What's that?". :eek: I try to be very careful not to offend, but I do say how important that HGB is!
My children have all received the HGB, but not all of the spouses have. I do pray for my grandchildren! :)
Has he not heard anyone speak in tongues during a service in 4 years?
Has he not seen anyone get the Holy Ghost during a service in 4 years?
Mr. Steinway
10-30-2007, 09:02 AM
Has he not heard anyone speak in tongues during a service in 4 years?
Has he not seen anyone get the Holy Ghost during a service in 4 years?
He has heard tongues and interpretation, and folks speak in tongues while praying, but he thought that was all the charismatic gift of tongues. He doesn't remember a message about a personal baptism of the Holy Ghost with speaking in tongues.
We have a large church so the alter area is pretty far from where he sits. He has not been close enough to witness someone receiving the HGB!
Whole Hearted
10-30-2007, 09:02 AM
Many See the UPC just as people saw the titanic. They said it could not go down. When it was reported that they would sink people went right on doing what they were doing, saying it can't sink. the first life boats left half full. People keep on dancing to the music and ignoring the warning.
Only when it was too late did they believe.
The same thingis happening in the UPC. She is on her way down. People are daincing to the music form WEC and ignore the warning cries.
Mr. Steinway
10-30-2007, 09:05 AM
Many See the UPC just as people saw the titanic. They said it could not go down. When it was reported that they would sink people went right on doing what they were doing, saying it can't sink. the first life boats left half full. People keep on dancing to the music and ignoring the warning.
Only when it was too late did they believe.
The same thingis happening in the UPC. She is on her way down. People are daincing to the music form WEC and ignore the warning cries.
Oh brother!!! :banghead
You seem like a person at a railroad crossing gleaming about a wreck that could happen because you did something to the track!!! :foottap
chaotic_resolve
10-30-2007, 09:06 AM
The United Pentecostal Church is better off . . .
The resolution passed . . .
I won't forget the moment I heard the results of the vote . . .
I declared Hallelujah! Let the local assembly choose their what's best for them . . .
Instead of Rev. Immaginit who resides on the other side of the District or further . . .
I felt a moment of clarity . . .
Instead of the issue being put off and causing more conflict . . .
Finally there was a resolution to the resolution . . . (no pun intended)
There's no confusion here . . .
Only confusion that may exist is caused by one's own double-mindedness . . .
Yes, there may be consequences . . .
Those who leave will be better off . . .
As will the organization they leave . . .
Unity was called for . . . in the name of pro-ad ministers abandoning their convictions . . .
It's always the pro-ad or moderates who are supposed to capitulate to the right . . .
Now comes the “preferred” apostolic assembly of Tulsa . . .
Supposed great men are jumping ship from all areas of the US . . .
Will the UPCI lose 100? 500? 1000? Or more . . .
'Tis folly to leap from a perfectly floating ship . . .
Only sharks await in the waters below . . .
These “great” men will find something to disagree with each other on eventually . . .
They can't agree on much else than television and basic doctrine . . .
Amazing it took this long for RKS to come to this conclusion . . .
Too bad it's self-serving . . .
Too bad it requires the pro-ad ministers . . .
The moderates . . .
The ministers he doesn't agree with . . .
To back down . . .
To try and reverse the vote on Resolution 4 . . .
The UPCI will only suffer so long as the grand stagemasters remain . . .
Once the drama is ended . . .
Once these "great" few leave the organization . . .
Healing can and will begin . . .
And it won't be from a man . . .
Healing of this kind can and will only come from God . . .
CR
Steve Epley
10-30-2007, 09:06 AM
He has heard tongues and interpretation, and folks speak in tongues while praying, but he thought that was all the charismatic gift of tongues. He doesn't remember a message about a personal baptism of the Holy Ghost with speaking in tongues.
We have a large church so the alter area is pretty far from where he sits. He has not been close enough to witness someone receiving the HGB!
Again forgive the personal reference I certainly have no desire to offend you. I was visiting my father once and went to service with him he is a Charismatic preacher I guess because I was there he preached about the HGB and asked how many had spoken in tongues maybe 20% raised their hands in a crowd of about 2000. The shock on my father's face was evident. As we went to lunch he did not mention it and neither did I.
rgcraig
10-30-2007, 09:07 AM
Many See the UPC just as people saw the titanic. They said it could not go down. When it was reported that they would sink people went right on doing what they were doing, saying it can't sink. the first life boats left half full. People keep on dancing to the music and ignoring the warning.
Only when it was too late did they believe.
The same thingis happening in the UPC. She is on her way down. People are daincing to the music form WEC and ignore the warning cries.
:nuke
:drama
:groan
Whole Hearted
10-30-2007, 09:09 AM
Oh brother!!! :banghead
You seem like a person at a railroad crossing gleaming about a wreck that could happen because you did something to the track!!! :foottap
Not at all.
I have spent many sleepless night and cried many tears over this,
I have bee grieved over this situation.
You couldn't be more wrong about this.
But I will not go down on this ship that MEN are saying can't go down/
Nahum
10-30-2007, 09:10 AM
At the tower of Babel when the language was confounded the folks there found those who spoke the same language which became their identity. Thus in these last days it is the same men of differing stripes are looking for those who speak the same language over the complete spectrum of Pentecost. Have you noticed NO cons have been preaching at Christ Church? Likes attract. Is this evil??? I think not. I believe the Lord is in this myself. :runhills:runhills If the passing of Res. 4 was the sole reason it would be foolish but everyone on each side knows this is NOT the reason but the last straw.
Wisdom speaks.
Many See the UPC just as people saw the titanic. They said it could not go down. When it was reported that they would sink people went right on doing what they were doing, saying it can't sink. the first life boats left half full. People keep on dancing to the music and ignoring the warning.
Only when it was too late did they believe.
The same thingis happening in the UPC. She is on her way down. People are daincing to the music form WEC and ignore the warning cries.
Many people see those that are mad at the UPCI for allowing TV ads, as control freaks bent on tell God how to be saved.
Steve Epley
10-30-2007, 09:12 AM
Many people see those that are mad at the UPCI for allowing TV ads, as control freaks bent on tell God how to be saved.
Fern anyone who know anything about this(and I am an outsider) must surely know Res. 4 is not the reason it is the cataylist that pushed it over.
Whole Hearted
10-30-2007, 09:13 AM
Many people see those that are mad at the UPCI for allowing TV ads, as control freaks bent on tell God how to be saved.
I for one am not mad, but hurt, disappointed, and grieved, but not mad.
I haven't talked to anyone who is mad. The one I have talk to are just like me, hurt disappointed and grieved. Big difference.
Mr. Steinway
10-30-2007, 09:14 AM
Not at all.
I have spent many sleepless night and cried many tears over this,
I have bee grieved over this situation.
You couldn't be more wrong about this.
But I will not go down on this ship that MEN are saying can't go down/
I hate to tell you this, but there are also reports of record numbers of preachers joining the UPCI since GC.
I personally believe the UPCI will not only survive, but thrive!! :bliss
Nahum
10-30-2007, 09:14 AM
Fern anyone who know anything about this(and I am an outsider) must surely know Res. 4 is not the reason it is the cataylist that pushed it over.
Yeah Fern.
Brother Epley is right.
Res 4 was the Waterloo of the radical right fringe.
The battle had been hot for a long time before that, however.
I would also like to add that I have heard that the UPCI was going to go down in flames all of my life.
And I have heard the rebuttle from preachers who love truth and have given thier lives for this Gospel message, that the UPCI will not go down in flames.
HISTORY says that EVERY organization made by man will come to an ignoble end. This is the way of man.
Much like the rantings of the distruction of America, these rantings have no real value. No preacher has given prophesy that even comes close to the truth on the subject!
Will the UPCI end? I can say with certainty that yes it will one day not be what it currently is. That it will end. Why? because it was formed by men.
those that seek to create a new organization, will build one that will also end. and for the exact same reasons.
that aint prophesy that is understanding history and human nature.
people need to quit wringing thier hands and do their deal and stop pointing at others.
Whole Hearted
10-30-2007, 09:17 AM
I hate to tell you this, but there are also reports of record numbers of preachers joining the UPCI since GC.
I personally believe the UPCI will not only survive, but thrive!! :bliss
OLf there weill always be a UPC, but what will it be?
It will just be a name , not the org standing for truth, just a watered down, powerless group of people or a tbn type of mess.
I hate to tell you this, but there are also reports of record numbers of preachers joining the UPCI since GC.
I personally believe the UPCI will not only survive, but thrive!! :bliss
Assessing the impact of all the ones leaving vs. the ones coming in isn't as simple as just counting noses in each line.
Losing a Johnny Godair with his influence and credibility cannot be replaced by just getting another preacher licensed.
Initially, the finances these men take with them will be felt in a major way.
But the long term impact of the absence of their voice and influence in the movement, and in the shaping of the next generation of young UPC preachers will have a huge impact, and one not easy to calculate right now.
When you lose the caliber of men that the UPC is going to lose, it is not a small thing.
Fern anyone who know anything about this(and I am an outsider) must surely know Res. 4 is not the reason it is the cataylist that pushed it over.
Brother Epley, you are 100% right. AND I would add, that my comment was acinine and meant to be as a retort to what was said. it was not how i feel about many of the men that are leaving the UPCI.
there are underlying reasons that are deep and important. this was nothing more than the place of the "last battle" if you will.
I would also like to add that I have heard that the UPCI was going to go down in flames all of my life.
And I have heard the rebuttle from preachers who love truth and have given thier lives for this Gospel message, that the UPCI will not go down in flames.
HISTORY says that EVERY organization made by man will come to an ignoble end. This is the way of man.
Much like the rantings of the distruction of America, these rantings have no real value. No preacher has given prophesy that even comes close to the truth on the subject!
Will the UPCI end? I can say with certainty that yes it will one day not be what it currently is. That it will end. Why? because it was formed by men.
those that seek to create a new organization, will build one that will also end. and for the exact same reasons.
that aint prophesy that is understanding history and human nature.
people need to quit wringing thier hands and do their deal and stop pointing at others.
This is exactly right.
And this is why I refuse to villify men who want to belong to something like the UPC was when they became a part of it, not the UPC as it appears to be going.
Mr. Steinway
10-30-2007, 09:20 AM
I for one am not mad, but hurt, disappointed, and grieved, but not mad.
I haven't talked to anyone who is mad. The one I have talk to are just like me, hurt disappointed and grieved. Big difference.
Does one leave a marriage because they are disappointed, grieved or hurt? Or is it because these feelings lead to anger which makes them be assertive and leave the situation?
If you were not angry, you would not leave or encourage your buddies to leave. If you were not angry, you would pray that God's will be done. You would find some way reconcile.
I don't see that coming from you at all! I see you gloating about a "Titanic" going down!
I for one am not mad, but hurt, disappointed, and grieved, but not mad.
I haven't talked to anyone who is mad. The one I have talk to are just like me, hurt disappointed and grieved. Big difference.
WH, you can be grieved and hurt all you want. but when you say the things you say, and put forth this argument about the UPCI going down like the titanic. making proclimations like this, what it shows is a degree of pettiness.
I am very sorry, but I have a hard time being overly sympathetic with you guys (many whom I call friend and highly respect) because, this is no different than what happened in 1992. I dont think you were grieved over those that left then.
Your grief is not for the UPCI. It is for what you lost. There is a big difference.
Mr. Steinway
10-30-2007, 09:25 AM
OLf there weill always be a UPC, but what will it be?
It will just be a name , not the org standing for truth, just a watered down, powerless group of people or a tbn type of mess.
Ok! So now the UPCI will no longer stand for truth because they voted to allow TV advertising! Their message will now be watered down and powerless because of a vote on a resolution. They are turning into TBN because they voted "yes" on res #4!!!! :banghead Oh brother!!!
This is exactly right.
And this is why I refuse to villify men who want to belong to something like the UPC was when they became a part of it, not the UPC as it appears to be going.
we agree in the refusal to villify.
we do NOT agree on what the UPCI was when many of these men joined.
we agree in the refusal to villify.
we do NOT agree on what the UPCI was when many of these men joined.
The strong anti-tv position has beenin place since the 1950's.
That predates the ministries of most, if not all these men.
Joseph Miller
10-30-2007, 09:30 AM
OLf there weill always be a UPC, but what will it be?
It will just be a name , not the org standing for truth, just a watered down, powerless group of people or a tbn type of mess.
I dealt with this same attitude from another UC last night. Since Res 4 passed the UPCI has go to the dogs to hear them tell it. The truth of the matter is that the vote didn't go the way they wanted so now they are mad and are beginning to become bitter. I think it very sad.
Pastor Keith
10-30-2007, 09:30 AM
At the tower of Babel when the language was confounded the folks there found those who spoke the same language which became their identity. Thus in these last days it is the same men of differing stripes are looking for those who speak the same language over the complete spectrum of Pentecost. Have you noticed NO cons have been preaching at Christ Church? Likes attract. Is this evil??? I think not. I believe the Lord is in this myself. :runhills:runhills If the passing of Res. 4 was the sole reason it would be foolish but everyone on each side knows this is NOT the reason but the last straw.
I have been trying to think of NT example of this, the only comparable one that would be close, is when Peter tried to seperate from the Gentiles to eat with his buddies and kin and was rebuked for causing division by Paul.
Whole Hearted
10-30-2007, 09:33 AM
Does one leave a marriage because they are disappointed, grieved or hurt? Or is it because these feelings lead to anger which makes them be assertive and leave the situation?
If you were not angry, you would not leave or encourage your buddies to leave. If you were not angry, you would pray that God's will be done. You would find some way reconcile.
I don't see that coming from you at all! I see you gloating about a "Titanic" going down!
Again you are wrong. Would you stay in a marriage where your wife was unfaithful?
Top say I at gloating is a pine blank lie. You don't know me, only what you read here. You have not seen the tears I have shed. You have not known how I have grieved over this. I have not encouraged one person to leave.
It wasn't God who took the UPC in the direction of TV it was carnal men.
Pastor Keith
10-30-2007, 09:34 AM
Many See the UPC just as people saw the titanic. They said it could not go down. When it was reported that they would sink people went right on doing what they were doing, saying it can't sink. the first life boats left half full. People keep on dancing to the music and ignoring the warning.
Only when it was too late did they believe.
The same thingis happening in the UPC. She is on her way down. People are daincing to the music form WEC and ignore the warning cries.
You have to be kidding right? WEC does not have that much control over what happens in the local church, your post is an example of the rampant fear and misplaced idea of what the UPC is and isn't. It's almost as if you want to division and see the others get their just due.
Pastor Keith
10-30-2007, 09:39 AM
Assessing the impact of all the ones leaving vs. the ones coming in isn't as simple as just counting noses in each line.
Losing a Johnny Godair with his influence and credibility cannot be replaced by just getting another preacher licensed.
Initially, the finances these men take with them will be felt in a major way.
But the long term impact of the absence of their voice and influence in the movement, and in the shaping of the next generation of young UPC preachers will have a huge impact, and one not easy to calculate right now.
When you lose the caliber of men that the UPC is going to lose, it is not a small thing.
Amos
You know I have utmost respect for you, but how does a man like Godair influence preachers when in some parts of the country he and others like him wouldn't even come because of so called liberal churches or what has been spread about the conference sponsor or host.
For example:
Kenneth Haney has been more than accomdating to have men that he would necessarily agree with over the years, but have the reprocicated, no.
Again you are wrong. Would you stay in a marriage where your wife was unfaithful?
Top say I at gloating is a pine blank lie. You don't know me, only what you read here. You have not seen the tears I have shed. You have not known how I have grieved over this. I have not encouraged one person to leave.
It wasn't God who took the UPC in the direction of TV it was carnal men.
again, you are grieved. I acknowlege that.
but it is for what you have lost and not over the UPCI.
Amos
You know I have utmost respect for you, but how does a man like Godair influence preachers when in some parts of the country he and others like him wouldn't even come because of so called liberal churches or what has been spread about the conference sponsor or host.
For example:
Kenneth Haney has been more than accomdating to have men that he would necessarily agree with over the years, but have the reprocicated, no.
This doesn't change the fact that his influence on the national scale is signifigant.
... ...I can't get in the UPC because the guy in my city wont let me, do you think that represents a healthy organization, this happened before the vote, guess what he will most likely leave, now I might if I so choose be able to get into a organization that I owe much to and owes much to me.
Keith, would you like for me to call him and see what he is planning? :winkgrin
Regarding the upc, would you really be willing to sign the AS?
Pastor Keith
10-30-2007, 09:49 AM
Keith, would you like for me to call him and see what he is planning? :winkgrin
Regarding the upc, would you really be willing to sign the AS?
Sure, and I would sign the AS. :tvhappy
Pastor Keith
10-30-2007, 09:51 AM
This doesn't change the fact that his influence on the national scale is signifigant.
Yes, his influence is significant and the loss of those guys will have a impact, good or bad.
This doesn't change the fact that his influence on the national scale is signifigant.
Amos, truely it is a sad thing to loose men like JG, and so many others. They are great men
but if life has taught me anything, it is that none of us are irreplaceable. Their departure will simple make room for others to step up. This is they way of things.
Sure these guys will be missed. Their influence has been valuable. But there are others who arent going anywhere. there are others that will step up. It is always that way.
Yes, his influence is significant and the loss of those guys will have a impact, good or bad.
This is my point exactly.
Whether you think it is a positive or negative thing, the impact will definitely be considerable.
Whole Hearted
10-30-2007, 09:53 AM
again, you are grieved. I acknowlege that.
but it is for what you have lost and not over the UPCI.
And just what have I lost?
I can't see where my life will be any different outside the UPC that it is in.
Joseph Miller
10-30-2007, 09:53 AM
I believe that the greatest preachers are people we have never heard of. Maybe this will bring exposure to them.
Amos, truely it is a sad thing to loose men like JG, and so many others. They are great men
but if life has taught me anything, it is that none of us are irreplaceable. Their departure will simple make room for others to step up. This is they way of things.
Sure these guys will be missed. Their influence has been valuable. But there are others who arent going anywhere. there are others that will step up. It is always that way.
Sure, there will be leadership that will step up.
But their loss will make a difference in the direction and emphasis of the UPC.
I predict that it is going to take a turn to the left.
The Kid
10-30-2007, 10:12 AM
I know this debate isn't about the personal convictions of Bro. Haney, but I just spoke to a man who came up with Brother Haney and he said in very endearing terms..."The Bishop isn't as conservative as you think he is, in fact I know for certain he doesn't believe that WE are the only ones who are going to heaven..."
I asked him who is WE, and he said, "Ya know who I am talking about..."
Joseph Miller
10-30-2007, 10:15 AM
I am glad that someone knows who WE is.
Felicity
10-30-2007, 10:22 AM
anyone who know anything about this(and I am an outsider) must surely know Res. 4 is not the reason it is the cataylist that pushed it over.
The issue isn't always the issue.
Felicity
10-30-2007, 10:25 AM
I would also like to add that I have heard that the UPCI was going to go down in flames all of my life.
And I have heard the rebuttle from preachers who love truth and have given thier lives for this Gospel message, that the UPCI will not go down in flames.
HISTORY says that EVERY organization made by man will come to an ignoble end. This is the way of man.
Much like the rantings of the distruction of America, these rantings have no real value. No preacher has given prophesy that even comes close to the truth on the subject!
Will the UPCI end? I can say with certainty that yes it will one day not be what it currently is. That it will end. Why? because it was formed by men.
those that seek to create a new organization, will build one that will also end. and for the exact same reasons.
that aint prophesy that is understanding history and human nature.
people need to quit wringing thier hands and do their deal and stop pointing at others.Now here's a good post.
The Kid
10-30-2007, 10:29 AM
again, you are grieved. I acknowlege that.
but it is for what you have lost and not over the UPCI.
Good Posts Ferd.
One of the rallying cries of the UPC is "UPON THIS ROCK will I build my CHURCH and the gates of hell shall not prevail against IT!!!"
The problem is when these ministers have full and complete conviction that the scripture really means, "Upon this rock will I build my ORGANIZATION and the gates of hell shall not prevail against IT (the organization)."
You know it and I know it and others know it as well...
Felicity
10-30-2007, 10:41 AM
I would also like to add that I have heard that the UPCI was going to go down in flames all of my life.
And I have heard the rebuttle from preachers who love truth and have given thier lives for this Gospel message, that the UPCI will not go down in flames.
HISTORY says that EVERY organization made by man will come to an ignoble end. This is the way of man.
Much like the rantings of the distruction of America, these rantings have no real value. No preacher has given prophesy that even comes close to the truth on the subject!
Will the UPCI end? I can say with certainty that yes it will one day not be what it currently is. That it will end. Why? because it was formed by men.
those that seek to create a new organization, will build one that will also end. and for the exact same reasons.
that aint prophesy that is understanding history and human nature.
people need to quit wringing thier hands and do their deal and stop pointing at others. Not sure it will ever "end" per se. I hope not. I think it's still the most viable option at this point anyhow.
There are many denominations today that in spite of their struggles and "past glory" are still strong and ongoing.
Pastor Keith
10-30-2007, 10:41 AM
I know this debate isn't about the personal convictions of Bro. Haney, but I just spoke to a man who came up with Brother Haney and he said in very endearing terms..."The Bishop isn't as conservative as you think he is, in fact I know for certain he doesn't believe that WE are the only ones who are going to heaven..."
I asked him who is WE, and he said, "Ya know who I am talking about..."
Your a little late to the party, we bantered this around last a few weeks ago, but thanks for sharing
Felicity
10-30-2007, 10:48 AM
Thot:
The UPCI is part of the Church and has its part to play in the overall scope of what God is doing in the world and His plan for the world as far as salvation of souls go. Whatever part the UPCI is playing in all of this will continue in regard to the overall picture of what God's plan, will and purpose is.
Of that I have no doubt.
After all, HE is still the One who's in control. ;) :)
Mr. Steinway
10-30-2007, 11:33 AM
I know this debate isn't about the personal convictions of Bro. Haney, but I just spoke to a man who came up with Brother Haney and he said in very endearing terms..."The Bishop isn't as conservative as you think he is, in fact I know for certain he doesn't believe that WE are the only ones who are going to heaven..."
I asked him who is WE, and he said, "Ya know who I am talking about..."
He meant AMF, PAW, and ALJC!!!! :D
Yeah Fern.
Brother Epley is right.
Res 4 was the Waterloo of the radical right fringe.
The battle had been hot for a long time before that, however.
Waterloo, More like the "Little Bighorn"
The issue isn't always the issue.
Thats the issue.
Mr. Steinway
10-30-2007, 11:42 AM
The issue isn't always the issue.
Thats the issue.
...and I have an issue with that! :foottap
And just what have I lost?
I can't see where my life will be any different outside the UPC that it is in.
then you arent grieved at all.
IMHO what you have lost is the IDEAL of what you think the UPCI ought to be. that hope is gone.
Sure, there will be leadership that will step up.
But their loss will make a difference in the direction and emphasis of the UPC.
I predict that it is going to take a turn to the left.
then it will have corrected the previous hard right course change.
Mr. Steinway
10-30-2007, 11:49 AM
then it will have corrected the previous hard right course change.
It's kind of funny to hear the assertions of where the opposing group is headed!
The UPCI is going loosey goosey.! The Tulsa group is going Amish-like ultra-con!
Both will remain basically identical accept for TV advertising for the next several years!
Sure, there will be leadership that will step up.
But their loss will make a difference in the direction and emphasis of the UPC.
I predict that it is going to take a turn to the left.
Hallelujah!!!! From your keyboard to the ears of God.
It's kind of funny to hear the assertions of where the opposing group is headed!
The UPCI is going loosey goosey.! The Tulsa group is going Amish-like ultra-con!
Both will remain basically identical accept for TV advertising for the next several years!
From where you are sitting, I suspect that is true enough. I dont know that I agree.
I see the UPCI taking a middle of the road approach that is much like the Louisiana Dristrict that I know and love.
the Tulsa group will be what they have always been. Conservitive in pretty much every way.
I just want it over and for this tit for tat business to end. it seems to me that there is room for both without a lot of strife.
Mr. Steinway
10-30-2007, 11:55 AM
From where you are sitting, I suspect that is true enough. I dont know that I agree.
I see the UPCI taking a middle of the road approach that is much like the Louisiana Dristrict that I know and love.
the Tulsa group will be what they have always been. Conservitive in pretty much every way.
I just want it over and for this tit for tat business to end. it seems to me that there is room for both without a lot of strife.
Whatever happens, I feel that the UPCI will experience more unity than they have experienced in YEARS!! That is definitely a good thing! :bliss
Whatever happens, I feel that the UPCI will experience more unity than they have experienced in YEARS!! That is definitely a good thing! :bliss
I believe you are right.
I also believe these guys going to Tulsa have a real chance to create somethign they can really be a part of, and have real unity as well.
I just want everyone to do their deal and go forward.
Felicity
10-30-2007, 12:14 PM
Whatever happens, I feel that the UPCI will experience more unity than they have experienced in YEARS!! That is definitely a good thing! :blissIt's kind of funny.... all us Xers who care, eh? ;) :)
Felicity
10-30-2007, 12:30 PM
QUESTION:
Who are the leaders of this Tulsa initiative?
Felicity
10-30-2007, 12:35 PM
Why does R Kent Smith not comment on his own post and thread that he started?
Why does R Kent Smith not comment on his own post and thread that he started?
Information in Poster
"Mapping direction for a preferred Apostolic future"
January 24-25, 2008
Tulsa, Oklahoma
Facilitating Committee:
Johnny Godair
Floyd Odom
Nathaniel Wilson
Larry Booker
Kenny Godair
Crawford Coon
Felicity
10-30-2007, 12:50 PM
Thanks Ferd. I've met personally L. Booker, K. Godair and Crawford Coon. None of these men on the personal level came across as unreasonable or "hard" men. I liked them all, particularly K Godair and C Coon.
Of course a fair amount of time has passed since then. Time and leadership changes what the issues are at a given time.
revrandy
10-30-2007, 12:53 PM
Maybe we could get Joel "Smilie" Olsteen to come and bring some of the charm and charisma to the group...
Can't you see...
"Group Hug" everybody...
I wonder if God won't make some of these guys neighbors in Heaven??? :)
BrotherEastman
10-30-2007, 01:06 PM
Not at all.
I have spent many sleepless night and cried many tears over this,
I have bee grieved over this situation.
You couldn't be more wrong about this.
But I will not go down on this ship that MEN are saying can't go down/
Then get off!
dizzyde
10-30-2007, 01:08 PM
Hmm, Bro Smith thinks the only way healing can come is to capitulate to those who are leaving. Somehow that seems wrong to me.
Why not stay and work things out?
My thoughts exactly, why is healing only to be achieved by those leaving ultimately getting their way?? Whose definition of healing are we using? And, I have no idea if the convention center in Tulsa will be big enough or not, but how many of those attending will be spectators?
I was at a large WD event last night, and I felt a strong spirit of unity. I guess we all will see the outcome eventually, but I'm a little tired of the doomsday theatrics.
BrotherEastman
10-30-2007, 01:09 PM
Does one leave a marriage because they are disappointed, grieved or hurt? Or is it because these feelings lead to anger which makes them be assertive and leave the situation?
If you were not angry, you would not leave or encourage your buddies to leave. If you were not angry, you would pray that God's will be done. You would find some way reconcile.
I don't see that coming from you at all! I see you gloating about a "Titanic" going down!
A big fat amen! It looks more like a gloat than a disappointment. It looks more like a lie coming from a preacher than the truth.
BrotherEastman
10-30-2007, 01:11 PM
I dealt with this same attitude from another UC last night. Since Res 4 passed the UPCI has go to the dogs to hear them tell it. The truth of the matter is that the vote didn't go the way they wanted so now they are mad and are beginning to become bitter. I think it very sad.
Amen!:scoregood
BrotherEastman
10-30-2007, 01:13 PM
Again you are wrong. Would you stay in a marriage where your wife was unfaithful?
Top say I at gloating is a pine blank lie. You don't know me, only what you read here. You have not seen the tears I have shed. You have not known how I have grieved over this. I have not encouraged one person to leave.
It wasn't God who took the UPC in the direction of TV it was carnal men.
You will recieve the same judgment that you give, I promise you that! I didn't join an organization to cater to one group over the other, nor did I join this org to coddle a crybaby preacher!
BrotherEastman
10-30-2007, 01:14 PM
again, you are grieved. I acknowlege that.
but it is for what you have lost and not over the UPCI.
He's grieved because he didn't get his poor little way. I wanna vomit.
revrandy
10-30-2007, 01:15 PM
Using Carnal seems as wide an abuse as Moderate is to Conservatives...
Easty going hard on this one ! LOL!
The more I think about it, the more I believe the UPCI already had the Healer come and do his job.
BrotherEastman
10-30-2007, 01:16 PM
And just what have I lost?
I can't see where my life will be any different outside the UPC that it is in.
Then if you can't see what you've lost, why grieve?
dizzyde
10-30-2007, 01:17 PM
OLf there weill always be a UPC, but what will it be?
It will just be a name , not the org standing for truth, just a watered down, powerless group of people or a tbn type of mess.
:groan
Whole Hearted
10-30-2007, 01:21 PM
then you arent grieved at all.
IMHO what you have lost is the IDEAL of what you think the UPCI ought to be. that hope is gone.
Yes I am grieved to see something that I have supported and been apart of for over 32 years going down.
Would you be grieved to see your child going down the wrong path?
Life must go on but that doesn't stop on from grieving at their lose.
BrotherEastman
10-30-2007, 01:22 PM
Yes I am grieved to see something that I have supported and been apart of for over 32 years going down.
Would you be grieved to see your child going down the wrong path?
Life must go on but that doesn't stop on from grieving at their lose.
Need a napkin?
You will recieve the same judgment that you give, I promise you that! I didn't join an organization to cater to one group over the other, nor did I join this org to coddle a crybaby preacher!
That was rather mean-spirited Bro Eastman. whole hearted is a pastor you know
revrandy
10-30-2007, 01:23 PM
Yes I am grieved to see something that I have supported and been apart of for over 32 years going down.
Would you be grieved to see your child going down the wrong path?
Life must go on but that doesn't stop on from grieving at their lose.
WH...all I've ever seen you do since I've seen you post is downgrade and call names on your supposed "support" of the Org....
was there ever a time when you were really happy with the ORg???
and when was it??
BrotherEastman
10-30-2007, 01:24 PM
That was rather mean-spirited Bro Eastman. whole hearted is a pastor you know
I know exactly who he is.
Whole Hearted
10-30-2007, 01:30 PM
You will recieve the same judgment that you give, I promise you that! I didn't join an organization to cater to one group over the other, nor did I join this org to coddle a crybaby preacher!
I'll have you know that I am not a cry baby preacher, but one with a backbone.
I joined an Org. that stood against TV and it's use and now they have changed. They are not the org., that I joined. I didn't join an org. to cater to compromise rs.
Praxeas
10-30-2007, 01:31 PM
rkentsmith says a reversal of res #4 will bring healing.
Others say a reversal of the 1992 AS agreement will bring healing.
I'm sure you will find some that will say that a reversal of all resolutions since 1945 would bring healing!
In my opinion, what will bring healing is for a revival of humility to break out at the Tulsa meeting!
I personally think Res 3 and the original A/S agreement are far more detrimental to church org than allowing advertisement on TV
Oh and BTW..some people felt betrayed and hurt over the A/S agreement and left....did we discuss some way of getting them back by undoing the A/S? Was there a meeting? Or did nobody care because they were backslidden liberals?
Praxeas
10-30-2007, 01:32 PM
Don't hold your breath.
Oh is that what it is? I thought he looked constipated :reaction
Felicity
10-30-2007, 01:33 PM
Writing quickly here........
I hate to see good men leave over this issue just as many (in the UPC) hated to see good men leave over other issues that have been divisive.
Being on this side of the fence gives me perspective that others don't\can't have and my plea and advice would be..........
Please don't leave.
You think the grass is going to be greener and that there'll be cohesion, total agreement, cooperation and no contention or issues or power struggles on the other side of the fence?
Think again. :) There may be a regret in time to come.
And yes, I understand about the "leaving on principle and standing on conviction" thing. But like I said, the issue isn't always the issue.
Praxeas
10-30-2007, 01:34 PM
At the tower of Babel when the language was confounded the folks there found those who spoke the same language which became their identity. Thus in these last days it is the same men of differing stripes are looking for those who speak the same language over the complete spectrum of Pentecost. Have you noticed NO cons have been preaching at Christ Church? Likes attract. Is this evil??? I think not. I believe the Lord is in this myself. :runhills:runhills If the passing of Res. 4 was the sole reason it would be foolish but everyone on each side knows this is NOT the reason but the last straw.
lol...comparing Oneness Pentecostals to the folks at the Tower of Babel is NOT NOT NOT NOT flattering! Good grief. Did Nimrod go with the UCs too?
The purpose of Babel also was to spread the human race around the world. If you can prove that this split will result in winning more souls or spreading more missionaries around the world, I'd love to see you try
Whole Hearted
10-30-2007, 01:36 PM
WH...all I've ever seen you do since I've seen you post is downgrade and call names on your supposed "support" of the Org....
was there ever a time when you were really happy with the ORg???
and when was it??
I would say I was fairly happy until 9 or 10 years ago when I began to see things that bothered me, but it wasn't until about 4 years ago that I began to wonder what was happening..
I have supported mission, and every program up until a few months ago.
lol...comparing Oneness Pentecostals to the folks at the Tower of Babel is NOT NOT NOT NOT flattering! Good grief. Did Nimrod go with the UCs too?
The purpose of Babel also was to spread the human race around the world. If you can prove that this split will result in winning more souls or spreading more missionaries around the world, I'd love to see you try
EPLEY??????
Praxeas
10-30-2007, 01:41 PM
At the tower of Babel when the language was confounded the folks there found those who spoke the same language which became their identity. Thus in these last days it is the same men of differing stripes are looking for those who speak the same language over the complete spectrum of Pentecost. Have you noticed NO cons have been preaching at Christ Church? Likes attract. Is this evil??? I think not. I believe the Lord is in this myself. :runhills:runhills If the passing of Res. 4 was the sole reason it would be foolish but everyone on each side knows this is NOT the reason but the last straw.
Oh, BTW....how do you know no cons preached at CC? You're limited narrow minded definition of what a CON is is NOT necessarily the correct one. I suggest there is a better word. Conservative does not have to mean legalism. Hate mongering. Man made rules you know? Not that you would agree. The Baptists are considered conservative by evangelical standards. They are fundamentalists. But they don't have a strict outward standard, yet they are against sin. They even boycotted Disney for having a pro gay agenda...while OPs just keep going to these places.
You see, There is far more to being Christian, conservative or holy than just posing/
Oh yes, like attracts like? You know when the AOG first voted on the Trinity clause the Oneness brothers still preached in their churches and vice versa. They were ok with it. It was narrow minded politics hungry men that later changed all that and made OP synonymous with elitism...and that monster just gets bigger and bigger with each passing moment.
Not only are many elitists pulling out of the UPC, the UPC voted in a very elitists LAW in Res 3.
It's funny how none of the so called "cons" had a problem with that one. It's all about elitism and control. Sad
Praxeas
10-30-2007, 01:42 PM
:scoregood
good post elder
Hey, did Nimrod's wife go with him too?
Yes I am grieved to see something that I have supported and been apart of for over 32 years going down.
Would you be grieved to see your child going down the wrong path?
Life must go on but that doesn't stop on from grieving at their lose.
Right! and that is the point. you arent grieved over what is wrong with the upci. you are grieved over what you precieve to be wrong with the upci.
namely the upci isnt going the direction YOU want it to!
and further more, it never was going the direction you want it to.
you said that you joined an organization that was against TV and wasnt an organization of compromisers.
WRONG. While the UPCI has been against TV in all forms, it has always been an organization of men who differed greatly in many issues. your inablility to co-exist with the rest of the organization is a reflection on you bro. Not the organization.
the things that have been most wrong with the UPCI has been the attempts thru the years make the UPCI into something other than what it always was.
rgcraig
10-30-2007, 02:13 PM
Right! and that is the point. you arent grieved over what is wrong with the upci. you are grieved over what you precieve to be wrong with the upci.
namely the upci isnt going the direction YOU want it to!
and further more, it never was going the direction you want it to.
you said that you joined an organization that was against TV and wasnt an organization of compromisers.
WRONG. While the UPCI has been against TV in all forms, it has always been an organization of men who differed greatly in many issues. your inablility to co-exist with the rest of the organization is a reflection on you bro. Not the organization.
the things that have been most wrong with the UPCI has been the attempts thru the years make the UPCI into something other than what it always was.
Probably stronger words than I would have been able to say, but I agree with what you are saying here Fernado!
rkentsmith
10-30-2007, 02:18 PM
Quite a response....
WOW....
Indeed the UPCI needs a healer....
The yes vote wanted change...
Apparently it will get exactly what it voted for...
Change...
Too many are leaving.....
Some celebrate....
Many weep.....
The UPCI Needs a Healer....
God Bless
Praxeas
10-30-2007, 02:19 PM
For Epley
http://uk.gizmodo.com/babel.jpg
Praxeas
10-30-2007, 02:21 PM
Quite a response....
WOW....
Indeed the UPCI needs a healer....
The yes vote wanted change...
Apparently it will get exactly what it voted for...
Change...
Too many are leaving.....
Some celebrate....
Many weep.....
The UPCI Needs a Healer....
God Bless
You really mean the UPCI needs a compromiser and a dictator, one that can tell the people that voted yes "stick it in your ear peons" and change it so we can supposedly get the crying weeping minority to come back?
Truly Blessed
10-30-2007, 02:23 PM
I am with Renda on this one. I belive we have clear evidence of Gods dissappointment with mankind at different times.
I think the way some are acting right now, God is very dissapointed with them.In the eternal purpose of God I doubt very very very very much that a few men being out of sorts with a man made organization even registers on His radar screen. :)
I am more inclined to believe that God is probably somewhat amused at how serious some folks believe their views are to Him. I'm sure He has had a few chuckles at my own sense of self importance through the years. :)
Elihu
10-30-2007, 02:30 PM
Quite a response....
WOW....
Indeed the UPCI needs a healer....
The yes vote wanted change...
Apparently it will get exactly what it voted for...
Change...
Too many are leaving.....
Some celebrate....
Many weep.....
The UPCI Needs a Healer....
God Bless
Kent, how exactly do you think your posts will affect needed "healing?"
I can't imagine how you drawing attention to this supposed "new" division and confusion is helpful. Seems to me you are just stirring the pot yourself.
rgcraig
10-30-2007, 02:31 PM
Quite a response....
WOW....
Indeed the UPCI needs a healer....
The yes vote wanted change...
Apparently it will get exactly what it voted for...
Change...
Too many are leaving.....
Some celebrate....
Many weep.....
The UPCI Needs a Healer....
God Bless
The no vote wanted change too, so how can you blame this all on the yes votes!
Good grief! And you are right Sham - - there's no feeling on loss or unity coming from that post.
In the eternal purpose of God I doubt very very very very much that a few men being out of sorts with a man made organization even registers on His radar screen. :)
I am more inclined to believe that God is probably somewhat amused at how serious some folks believe their views are to Him. I'm sure He has had a few chuckles at my own sense of self importance through the years. :)
you just had to show up and poke holes in my theory didnt you?
I get that whole "we arent near as important as we think we are"
and I agree with God being bemused at our own self importance.
I still think He gets disappointed in any of His kids when they act up.
Quite a response....
WOW....
Indeed the UPCI needs a healer....
The yes vote wanted change...
Apparently it will get exactly what it voted for...
Change...
Too many are leaving.....
Some celebrate....
Many weep.....
The UPCI Needs a Healer....
God Bless
my view is that the vote WAS the healing.
rgcraig
10-30-2007, 02:36 PM
you just had to show up and poke holes in my theory didnt you?
I get that whole "we arent near as important as we think we are"
and I agree with God being bemused at our own self importance.
I still think He gets disappointed in any of His kids when they act up.
Me too. Sticking with it.
rkentsmith
10-30-2007, 02:45 PM
Folks...
Families will be torn between churches....
Someone on this forum just told me they are placed in a bad place of deciding to leave with pastor..
Or keep credentials and stay....
The family and church will be torn......
Change for change sake is damaging once again...
We need a healer to step up and say enough....
Sometimes...
Doing right is dirty work....
The UPCI Needs a Healer
Elihu
10-30-2007, 02:50 PM
Folks...
Families will be torn between churches....
Someone on this forum just told me they are placed in a bad place of deciding to leave with pastor..
Or keep credentials and stay....
The family and church will be torn......
Change for change sake is damaging once again...
We need a healer to step up and say enough....
Sometimes...
Doing right is dirty work....
The UPCI Needs a Healer
You say you want healing, but what you are implying is that advertising proponents submit to an outdated system that shackles their congregation's ability to reach the lost.
That seems extremely selfish, petty, controlling, manipulative, and unloving to me.
Healing will not come by going back to what was. It can only come by accepting what is, and learning to tolerate each other's insignificant differences.
rgcraig
10-30-2007, 02:52 PM
You say you want healing, but what you are implying is that advertising proponents submit to an outdated system that shackles their congregation's ability to reach the lost.
That seems extremely selfish, petty, controlling, manipulative, and unloving to me.
Healing will not come by going back to what was. It can only come by accepting what is, and learning to tolerate each other's insignificant differences.
Loving that!
Folks...
Families will be torn between churches....
Someone on this forum just told me they are placed in a bad place of deciding to leave with pastor..
Or keep credentials and stay....
The family and church will be torn......
Change for change sake is damaging once again...
We need a healer to step up and say enough....
Sometimes...
Doing right is dirty work....
The UPCI Needs a Healer
Start your own organization and get over it....
The attitude has always been can so many good men be wrong.
When it came to standards and TV.
Now the majority has spoken you have the guall to step into the shoes of which you blasted for years. AND question the same men you held up as the reason why we should not question authority.
If you deem that you question their authority.
Then you need to leave.
rkentsmith
10-30-2007, 02:53 PM
You say you want healing, but what you are implying is that advertising proponents submit to an outdated system that shackles their congregation's ability to reach the lost.
That seems extremely selfish, petty, controlling, manipulative, and unloving to me.
Healing will not come by going back to what was. It can only come by accepting what is, and learning to tolerate each other's insignificant differences.
If I remember correctly...
Shamgar got quite a bit done with an ox goad while his enemies had all the fancy equipment.....
God Bless
Elihu
10-30-2007, 02:55 PM
If I remember correctly...
Shamgar got quite a bit done with an ox goad while his enemies had all the fancy equipment.....
God Bless
That is right.
Shamgar used everything at his disposal to defeat his enemy and reap a harvest.
He did not worry about another man's field. He decided to protect his own harvest.
Think about it.
rkentsmith
10-30-2007, 02:57 PM
Simply put...
The UPCI Needs a Healer
Whole Hearted
10-30-2007, 02:57 PM
You say you want healing, but what you are implying is that advertising proponents submit to an outdated system that shackles their congregation's ability to reach the lost.
That seems extremely selfish, petty, controlling, manipulative, and unloving to me.
Healing will not come by going back to what was. It can only come by accepting what is, and learning to tolerate each other's insignificant differences.
:scorebad
Elihu
10-30-2007, 02:58 PM
Simply put...
The UPCI Needs a Healer
Interpretation: The UPCI needs to reverse resolution four.
rgcraig
10-30-2007, 02:58 PM
If I remember correctly...
Shamgar got quite a bit done with an ox goad while his enemies had all the fancy equipment.....
God Bless
And you are trying to say that you are hurt over all this - - - :drama
Praxeas
10-30-2007, 02:59 PM
You say you want healing, but what you are implying is that advertising proponents submit to an outdated system that shackles their congregation's ability to reach the lost.
That seems extremely selfish, petty, controlling, manipulative, and unloving to me.
Healing will not come by going back to what was. It can only come by accepting what is, and learning to tolerate each other's insignificant differences.
Is it me or does it just seem the legalists got more stricter as time went on?
The UPC was formed with two different groups that did not agree and supposedly would tolerate each other. Was it a lie? Was it a pipe dream?
I have a friend who was working with a client and on the wall was a plaque that read United Pentecostal Church, in spanish. He asked the guy about it to see if he was UPC. Well what ensued was interesting. The guy was from South America. I guess there is a "UPC" down there not affiliated with us. But the most interesting part was this: He asked why we OPs can't get along when Trinitarians from many different denominations can get together despite their doctrinal differences?
rgcraig
10-30-2007, 02:59 PM
That is right.
Shamgar used everything at his disposal to defeat his enemy and reap a harvest.
He did not worry about another man's field. He decided to protect his own harvest.
Think about it.:scoregood
Praxeas
10-30-2007, 03:00 PM
Simply put...
The UPCI Needs a Healer
The AOG needs a healer...let's accept the Trinity and go back to them eh?
The folks that left the UPC and feel "hurt" over something so absurd are the ones that need a healer....where's Rhoni?
Simply put...
The UPCI Needs a Healer
The UPCI needs a new add campaign.
Or I should say it should hire a firm for it's first offical add campaign.
The first thing the UPCI should do is change it's offical name.
The name itself holds so many negative vibes in the christian community.
rgcraig
10-30-2007, 03:04 PM
Here's what everyone is missing - - the WORLD needs a healer....
Elihu
10-30-2007, 03:07 PM
Is it me or does it just seem the legalists got more stricter as time went on?
The UPC was formed with two different groups that did not agree and supposedly would tolerate each other. Was it a lie? Was it a pipe dream?
I have a friend who was working with a client and on the wall was a plaque that read United Pentecostal Church, in spanish. He asked the guy about it to see if he was UPC. Well what ensued was interesting. The guy was from South America. I guess there is a "UPC" down there not affiliated with us. But the most interesting part was this: He asked why we OPs can't get along when Trinitarians from many different denominations can get together despite their doctrinal differences?
The UPCI is NOT a cult or legalistic, but there is a radical fringe within the UPCI that is cultic. We are seeing that small group flex their muscle in a fit of absolute rage because the dominant strangle-hold they have held for so long has been broken.
This group came to power in the early-to-mid seventies, and have consistently pushed an extremist agenda, with no regard for those who disagreed.
The worm has turned.
One of the greatest biblical laws is found in Galatians 6:7, "Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap."
nathan_slatter
10-30-2007, 03:08 PM
Here's what everyone is missing - - the WORLD needs a healer....
I'd be happy with my own Healer... but that's just the western, capitalistic, and selfish, culture influencing my spirituality...
Here's what everyone is missing - - the WORLD needs a healer....
They will get one soon in the form of the Anti-Christ.
What the world needs is a saviour who is Chrsit the Lord.
Healing is about emotional state.
What we need is world repentance.
rkentsmith
10-30-2007, 03:11 PM
The UPCI is NOT a cult or legalistic, but there is a radical fringe within the UPCI that is cultic. We are seeing that small group flex their muscle in a fit of absolute rage because the dominant strangle-hold they have held for so long has been broken.
This group came to power in the early-to-mid seventies, and have consistently pushed an extremist agenda, with no regard for those who disagreed.
The worm has turned.
One of the greatest biblical laws is found in Galatians 6:7, "Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap."
Yup....
There is a kook fringe on both sides of the spectrum....
Yup....
There is a kook fringe on both sides of the spectrum....
Which kook are you?
Elihu
10-30-2007, 03:15 PM
Yup....
There is a kook fringe on both sides of the spectrum....
I'm surprised you agree, but thanks.:hypercoffee
There are liberal psychos who believe anything goes, everybody is saved, and deer meat isn't venison. But they have never been in power in the UPCI. The difference is the radical right has been in power in the UPCI for a long, long time.
Everybody from the "magic hair" ladies to the "sports will kill you" kooks.
I'm sure they feel rejected right now, and I don't want to gloat, but I say it's about time the UPCI goes moderate. Let's go mainstream and show the world what biblical Christianity is all about.
Joseph Miller
10-30-2007, 03:21 PM
Folks...
Families will be torn between churches....
Someone on this forum just told me they are placed in a bad place of deciding to leave with pastor..
Or keep credentials and stay....
The family and church will be torn......
Change for change sake is damaging once again...
We need a healer to step up and say enough....
Sometimes...
Doing right is dirty work....
The UPCI Needs a Healer
Bro. Smith would the vote have to be over turned for healing to come or can the 2 groups come together somehow without the vote being over turned?
If you say that the vote must be over turned then your thread is not about healing it is about the cons getting their way or throwing a fit because they didn't.
Felicity
10-30-2007, 03:23 PM
In the eternal purpose of God I doubt very very very very much that a few men being out of sorts with a man made organization even registers on His radar screen. :)
I am more inclined to believe that God is probably somewhat amused at how serious some folks believe their views are to Him. I'm sure He has had a few chuckles at my own sense of self importance through the years. :)Yep! :thumbsup
nathan_slatter
10-30-2007, 03:23 PM
Well, I think that it was the other Resolution that caused more problems (or will cause, rather) than the TV resolution. Granted, I'm out of the picture completely so I'm speaking from outside the org altogether.
There are a lot of good posts here...:scoregood
rkentsmith
10-30-2007, 03:29 PM
Bro. Smith would the vote have to be over turned for healing to come or can the 2 groups come together somehow without the vote being over turned?
If you say that the vote must be over turned then your thread is not about healing it is about the cons getting their way or throwing a fit because they didn't.
Please understand....
The vote is done...
The die cast....
Yes was the decision.....
I hold not the answers but anyone can clearly see we are more divided after Tampa than before....
But also please understand....
Those men leaving are not having fits or tantrums....
They have for years simply promised that when the UPCI embraces TV they will withdraw....
They are simply keeping promises.....
Some here can label them and castigate them but you make yourself look so small with such immature babble....
They promised...
They but keep their promises....
And to keep the deep wound from the UPCI...
She needs a healer...
Praxeas
10-30-2007, 03:31 PM
Please understand....
The vote is done...
The die cast....
Yes was the decision.....
I hold not the answers but anyone can clearly see we are more divided after Tampa than before....
But also please understand....
Those men leaving are not having fits or tantrums....
They have for years simply promised that when the UPCI embraces TV they will withdraw....
They are simply keeping promises.....
Some here can label them and castigate them but you make yourself look so small with such immature babble....
They promised...
They but keep their promises....
And to keep the deep wound from the UPCI...
She needs a healer...
Well which is it? They left because of a promise or because they are nursing deep wounds, ie, they left out of bitterness?
Felicity
10-30-2007, 03:31 PM
Finally! RKS shows up. :)
Praxeas
10-30-2007, 03:32 PM
.
She needs a healer...
And why are you personifying an organization? lol
The die was cast. It's done. What "she" needs now is a leader. Direction. Let's move on and forward and leave the backward thinkers where they chose to go
rkentsmith
10-30-2007, 03:33 PM
Well which is it? They left because of a promise or because they are nursing deep wounds, ie, they left out of bitterness?
I daresay Praxeous...
One will find much more bitterness here...
Than there....
rkentsmith
10-30-2007, 03:34 PM
Finally! RKS shows up. :)
Hello Felicity...
Nice to meet you in Tampa.....
nathan_slatter
10-30-2007, 03:34 PM
I daresay Praxeous...
One will find much more bitterness here...
Than there....
If I may...
Amen!
rgcraig
10-30-2007, 03:35 PM
Please understand....
The vote is done...
The die cast....
Yes was the decision.....
I hold not the answers but anyone can clearly see we are more divided after Tampa than before....
But also please understand....
Those men leaving are not having fits or tantrums....
They have for years simply promised that when the UPCI embraces TV they will withdraw....
They are simply keeping promises.....
Some here can label them and castigate them but you make yourself look so small with such immature babble....
They promised...
They but keep their promises....
And to keep the deep wound from the UPCI...
She needs a healer...I don't believe that for a minute. The vote just made it more visible.
Mr. Steinway
10-30-2007, 03:35 PM
Well which is it? They left because of a promise or because they are nursing deep wounds, ie, they left out of bitterness?
The cons have reached level two!!
Level 1 - Shock!
Level 2 - Anger!
Level 3, which is acceptance, will take a few months. Maybe after the Tulsa meeting many will realize that they don't have it so bad after all! :)
rgcraig
10-30-2007, 03:36 PM
Hello Felicity...
Nice to meet you in Tampa.....
Felice - did he smile in Tampa?
Joseph Miller
10-30-2007, 03:36 PM
Please understand....
The vote is done...
The die cast....
Yes was the decision.....
I hold not the answers but anyone can clearly see we are more divided after Tampa than before....
But also please understand....
Those men leaving are not having fits or tantrums....
They have for years simply promised that when the UPCI embraces TV they will withdraw....
They are simply keeping promises.....
Some here can label them and castigate them but you make yourself look so small with such immature babble....
They promised...
They but keep their promises....
And to keep the deep wound from the UPCI...
She needs a healer...
If you guys are leaving because you promised you would then go ahead and leave, there is no need in remaining on the fringe and keeing things stirred up. There will never be a healing for either side as long as people keep the wound open.
rkentsmith
10-30-2007, 03:37 PM
If I may...
Amen!
Hello Bro Nate...
How's Cel and the kids
Felicity
10-30-2007, 03:37 PM
I think some of you lack perspective. :)
rkentsmith
10-30-2007, 03:38 PM
If you guys are leaving because you promised you would then go ahead and leave, there is no need in remaining on the fringe and keeing things stirred up. There will never be a healing for either side as long as people keep the wound open.
Kook fringe is sad place to live.......
How you been Bro Miller
IAintMovin
10-30-2007, 03:38 PM
I have not read this thread.........only this last page.......havent read it in other places I have seen it either, so excuse me if I am off subject in my comments.........
Tampa did not divide the UPCI.......that was already done.......not one person walked into that room clueless to the vote that was about to be cast.......The UPCI was already divided....Tampa and the vote was mearly the excuse that some had been looking for to leave.....
I say that with no ill will toward anyone........I am glad that these who are leaving are man enough to follow what they feel in their heart.... I do not for one minute think they are wrong for their actions.....but those of us who are staying will follow our heart too......we are not wrong for our actions.........
The UPCI was already divided..........
I now return you to your regularly sch. broadcast...............
Felicity
10-30-2007, 03:38 PM
Hello Felicity...
Nice to meet you in Tampa.....Likewise sir! :)
IAintMovin
10-30-2007, 03:39 PM
Felice - did he smile in Tampa?
I was typing my answer while you wrote that.........great minds.........
rkentsmith
10-30-2007, 03:39 PM
I have not read this thread.........only this last page.......havent read it in other places I have seen it either, so excuse me if I am off subject in my comments.........
Tampa did not divide the UPCI.......that was already done.......not one person walked into that room clueless to the vote that was about to be cast.......The UPCI was already divided....Tampa and the vote was mearly the excuse that some had been looking for to leave.....
I say that with no ill will toward anyone........I am glad that these who are leaving are man enough to follow what they feel in their heart.... I do not for one minute think they are wrong for their actions.....but those of us who are staying will follow our heart too......we are not wrong for our actions.........
The UPCI was already divided..........
I now return you to your regularly sch. broadcast...............
haha
nathan_slatter
10-30-2007, 03:40 PM
Hello Bro Nate...
How's Cel and the kids
Hey sir... They are doing well. She's doing well. We work in the same building (different depts) which is really cool. We get to spend a lot of time together. Nat and Kendall are growing faster that I care to admit. Nat is in 4th grade (and doing 5th grade level stuff in a few areas. Kendall is in 1st and is smart as a whip... he takes after his mother. Well, they both do unless they're in trouble, then I'll admit -- it's my fault.
How about Sis Smith and your kids?
IAintMovin
10-30-2007, 03:40 PM
haha
Sorry didnt realize it was a joke............
Praxeas
10-30-2007, 03:41 PM
I daresay Praxeous...
One will find much more bitterness here...
Than there....
There? Where is there? lol
Read your own words. First you say it's this, then it's that...which is it? They were gonna leave anyways and they kept a promise.....they left because they were deeply hurt?
As I said, deep hurt is when you find your wife was cheating on you. For goodness sake people....they voted to allow delivery of the gospel on TV...one more medium than we have already been using through the Internet and radio. It's NOT somethign to be hurt over. I think, as far as healing is concerned, the UPC does not need a healer...Certain people need a healer to find out why they get hurt so badly by such things.
What is it about these laws, this organization, the attitude that can allow one to become so deeply hurt because they voted to allow winning souls through the TV?
I supposed I will not get it, though I think I do (see my post on Islam), but for that I am glad that I don't.
The JWs have the same mindset. Anytime someone leaves their fold they get insulted. They shun that person. They feel as though they were betrayed. They take their organization way way too personally
revrandy
10-30-2007, 03:41 PM
I still say....Let's Bring Smilin' Joe Osteen in....
:D
rgcraig
10-30-2007, 03:42 PM
I think some of you lack perspective. :)
And some have great perspective!
rkentsmith
10-30-2007, 03:42 PM
Hey sir... They are doing well. She's doing well. We work in the same building (different depts) which is really cool. We get to spend a lot of time together. Nat and Kendall are growing faster that I care to admit. Nat is in 4th grade (and doing 5th grade level stuff in a few areas. Kendall is in 1st and is smart as a whip... he takes after his mother. Well, they both do unless they're in trouble, then I'll admit -- it's my fault.
How about Sis Smith and your kids?
Doni is 21...onstaff....needs a husband bad....
Trent is 20 and flipped out over a good girl...he is at TBC....
Sis S is still as beautiful as ever.....
Come see me.....
So thankful things worked out for your mom.....
rgcraig
10-30-2007, 03:43 PM
I was typing my answer while you wrote that.........great minds.........
think alike....:hypercoffee
Joseph Miller
10-30-2007, 03:43 PM
Kook fringe is sad place to live.......
How you been Bro Miller
I am great Bro. Smith. How are things going for you?
Praxeas
10-30-2007, 03:44 PM
haha
Kent, inside I bet you are a cat lover with a smile. I imagine you inside smiling like this
http://www.moreno-stone.co.il/playground/humor/photo/smile%20cat.jpg
:-)
rgcraig
10-30-2007, 03:44 PM
haha
Just exactly what do you NOT agree with?
I think his post was pretty on target!
Mr. Steinway
10-30-2007, 03:45 PM
Doni is 21...onstaff....needs a husband bad....
Trent is 20 and flipped out over a good girl...he is at TBC....
Sis S is still as beautiful as ever.....
Come see me.....
So thankful things worked out for your mom.....
Will Trent be leaving TBC since it is now affiliated with a heathen organization?
rkentsmith
10-30-2007, 03:46 PM
Do I know Praxeas in real life?
IAintMovin
10-30-2007, 03:48 PM
Do I know Praxeas in real life?
Well.........how many donut eating cavemen do you know???????????
rkentsmith
10-30-2007, 03:50 PM
Well.........how many donut eating cavemen do you know???????????
I'm gonna need more help than that....kinda dense here
rgcraig
10-30-2007, 03:53 PM
I'm gonna need more help than that....kinda dense here
That would probably be a "no" since you don't watch TV.
Folks...
Families will be torn between churches....
Someone on this forum just told me they are placed in a bad place of deciding to leave with pastor..
Or keep credentials and stay....
The family and church will be torn......
Change for change sake is damaging once again...
We need a healer to step up and say enough....
Sometimes...
Doing right is dirty work....
The UPCI Needs a Healer
then convince the leaders of the leavers to stay and agree to the will of the body.
rkentsmith
10-30-2007, 03:58 PM
Regardless of all the wisdom and answers offered here.....
The UPCI Needs a Healer.....
nathan_slatter
10-30-2007, 03:59 PM
then convince the leaders of the leavers to stay and agree to the will of the body.
**grin**
That's just almost too tempting... but I'll not give in...
Praxeas
10-30-2007, 03:59 PM
The UPCI needs a weed wacker
Elihu
10-30-2007, 04:00 PM
There? Where is there? lol
Read your own words. First you say it's this, then it's that...which is it? They were gonna leave anyways and they kept a promise.....they left because they were deeply hurt?
As I said, deep hurt is when you find your wife was cheating on you. For goodness sake people....they voted to allow delivery of the gospel on TV...one more medium than we have already been using through the Internet and radio. It's NOT somethign to be hurt over. I think, as far as healing is concerned, the UPC does not need a healer...Certain people need a healer to find out why they get hurt so badly by such things.
What is it about these laws, this organization, the attitude that can allow one to become so deeply hurt because they voted to allow winning souls through the TV?
I supposed I will not get it, though I think I do (see my post on Islam), but for that I am glad that I don't.
The JWs have the same mindset. Anytime someone leaves their fold they get insulted. They shun that person. They feel as though they were betrayed. They take their organization way way too personally
Dear Praxeas,
The word for the day starts with a "C".
The word is control.
Now let's sound it out together.
Control.
Now let's divide the word into syllables and pronounce it properly.
Con.
Can you say "con?"
Good.
"Con" means against, or opposed.
Now let's say the second syllable.
trol.
Can you say "trol?"
Good.
"trol" means a gruff person who is anti-social. Some even go so far as to hide out under bridges.
Now let's say them together.
Control.
One more time.
Control.
Can you put the definitions together and decipher the meaning of the word?
Praxeas, you are such a quick learner!:scoregood
You have earned a gold star today!
Together, we have learned a valuable lesson about a very important word, "control."
This concludes our lesson.
rgcraig
10-30-2007, 04:00 PM
Regardless of all the wisdom and answers offered here.....
The UPCI Needs a Healer.....
And I guess the meeters in Tulsa don't?
IAintMovin
10-30-2007, 04:01 PM
then convince the leaders of the leavers to stay and agree to the will of the body.
If the leaders of the leavers decides to stay then he will no longer be the leader of the leavers but one of the members..........as much as I respect the leaders of the leavers (whoever they are) ..........few want to go from leader to member.......
Please understand....
The vote is done...
The die cast....
Yes was the decision.....
I hold not the answers but anyone can clearly see we are more divided after Tampa than before....
But also please understand....
Those men leaving are not having fits or tantrums....
They have for years simply promised that when the UPCI embraces TV they will withdraw....
They are simply keeping promises.....
Some here can label them and castigate them but you make yourself look so small with such immature babble....
They promised...
They but keep their promises....
And to keep the deep wound from the UPCI...
She needs a healer...
we may be more seperated, but we are not more devided.
in fact, we are less devided because we have seperated. what is UPCI is more united. what has seperated is more united.
two wholes that are united is far better than one whole that cant get along with itself.
Mr. Steinway
10-30-2007, 04:02 PM
If the leaders of the leavers decides to stay then he will no longer be the leader of the leavers but one of the members..........as much as I respect the leaders of the leavers (whoever they are) ..........few want to go from leader to member.......
No!!! This can't be about politics!!!!!!! :eek:
Elihu
10-30-2007, 04:03 PM
The UPCI needs a weed wacker
Yep.
I think resolution four is our weed wacker.
Praxeas
10-30-2007, 04:04 PM
Unfortunately resolution three is the crab grass
If the leaders of the leavers decides to stay then he will no longer be the leader of the leavers but one of the members..........as much as I respect the leaders of the leavers (whoever they are) ..........few want to go from leader to member.......
LOL! right. and I also agree 100% with your previous post by the way.
but can you say leaders of the leaders 5 times fast?
Joseph Miller
10-30-2007, 04:06 PM
Resolution 3 is a major move away from unity.
Elihu
10-30-2007, 04:06 PM
When I review the first post of this thread I am reminded of the scene in the Wizard of Oz when the Wicked Witch screams "I'M MELTING!!!"
It's over baby.
We ain't in Kansas any more.
Mr. Steinway
10-30-2007, 04:09 PM
Yep.
I think resolution four is our weed wacker.
Unfortunately resolution three is the crab grass
:ursofunny
The UPCI needs less of holding the fort and more vision with a fresh love for the lost.
It appears it is more about holding to what the UPCi already has then expanding to new vision...
Felicity
10-30-2007, 04:57 PM
In the cryptic style some use here........
I don't mind the idea of being able to televise commercially and I've said so before and the reasoning why .......
Don't like the idea of men leaving because of it .......
Am really sensitive to those who could care less and have the attitude .... "let them go ...... we're better off without them" ......
Believe THIS would be an attitude which might displease God more than all the rest of it.
He's grieved because he didn't get his poor little way. I wanna vomit.
What a sweet spirit.
In the cryptic style some use here........
I don't mind the idea of being able to televise commercially and I've said so before and the reasoning why .......
Don't like the idea of men leaving because of it .......
Am really sensitive to those who could care less and have the attitude .... "let them go ...... we're better off without them" ......
Believe THIS would be an attitude which might displease God more than all the rest of it.
Very well said. This "we're better off without them" attitude is not new and is growing more intense by the minute.
I don't understand it, but have been singing this song since GC and before...
What a sweet spirit.
My sentiments exactly, sir...
dizzyde
10-30-2007, 05:20 PM
Very well said. This "we're better off without them" attitude is not new and is growing more intense by the minute.
I don't understand it, but have been singing this song since GC and before...
I understand your sentiment, and I don't entirely disagree, but if you had lived through the slander and persecution that that some of those leaving have dished out over the years, you might understand a little more the "fine, go ahead" mentality.
Nahum
10-30-2007, 05:21 PM
Honestly, if all "they" are going to do is whine and complain, I wish they would leave, and we are better off without them.
Why beg someone to stay who doesn't want to?
I hope they do well in their new environment, however.
Sheltiedad
10-30-2007, 05:22 PM
If someone believed that blue and yellow butterflies turned into unicorns, would you want them to stay in the same fellowship as you?
:)
In the cryptic style some use here........
I don't mind the idea of being able to televise commercially and I've said so before and the reasoning why .......
Don't like the idea of men leaving because of it .......
Am really sensitive to those who could care less and have the attitude .... "let them go ...... we're better off without them" ......
Believe THIS would be an attitude which might displease God more than all the rest of it.
I dont think it is a matter of "we are better off without them....
I think it is a matter of everyone will be more productive...
more unified....
with two seperate groups....
I have great respect for many of those that are leaving....
Nahum
10-30-2007, 05:27 PM
I dont think it is a matter of "we are better off without them....
I think it is a matter of everyone will be more productive...
more unified....
with two seperate groups....
I have great respect for many of those that are leaving....
Well said!:scoregood
Felicity
10-30-2007, 05:53 PM
I dont think it is a matter of "we are better off without them....
I think it is a matter of everyone will be more productive...
more unified....
with two seperate groups....
I have great respect for many of those that are leaving....Well thanks for the clarification Ferd, but it does seem to be the way some are feeling judging from some of the attitudes and the posts and comments made on this thread and others.
Well thanks for the clarification Ferd, but it does seem to be the way some are feeling judging from some of the attitudes and the posts and comments made on this thread and others.
Terms like "crybaby preachers" and statements like "I wanna vomit" tend to give that impression.
Straightline
10-30-2007, 06:08 PM
"The United Pentecostal Church Needs a Healer"
Duct Tape works pretty good, too.
:pirate
A perpendicular
Straightline
Felicity
10-30-2007, 06:36 PM
Terms like "crybaby preachers" and statements like "I wanna vomit" tend to give that impression.I was thinking on the drive home from work........
How is the UPC better off without Crawford Coon?
How is the UPC better off without Johnny and Ken Godair?
How is the UPC better off without many of the fine, highly respected, looked up to and successful men of God who may be leaving?
How can this be?
Sarah
10-30-2007, 06:37 PM
In the cryptic style some use here........
I don't mind the idea of being able to televise commercially and I've said so before and the reasoning why .......
Don't like the idea of men leaving because of it .......
Am really sensitive to those who could care less and have the attitude .... "let them go ...... we're better off without them" ......
Believe THIS would be an attitude which might displease God more than all the rest of it.
I so much agree with this post........every line of it.
Joseph Miller
10-30-2007, 06:38 PM
I was thinking on the drive home from work........
How is the UPC better off without Crawford Coon?
How is the UPC better off without Johnny and Ken Godair?
How is the UPC better off without many of the fine, highly respected, looked up to and successful men of God who may be leaving?
How can this be?
I don't believe that it is the UPCI will be better off without certain men as much as it is that they will be better off without certain attitudes and hinderances to progress.
Sarah
10-30-2007, 06:39 PM
I was thinking on the drive home from work........
How is the UPC better off without Crawford Coon?
How is the UPC better off without Johnny and Ken Godair?
How is the UPC better off without many of the fine, highly respected, looked up to and successful men of God who may be leaving?
How can this be?
I love everyone of the men you mentioned, Felicity. And it really bothers me to know that we might never have Bro Booker at another campmeeting.
Felicity
10-30-2007, 06:41 PM
I don't believe that it is the UPCI will be better off without certain men as much as it is that they will be better off without certain attitudes and hinderances to progress. What kind of progress do you envision without some of these men?
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