STARTLING! LARRY BOOKER'S Latest Message!!!(wait til you see this!!!)

[Thad]

Did you Hear about Larry Booker's Latest controversial message???????

here are bits and pieces (quotes) taken from it.


give your opinion, good or bad so that we can discuss it.


Booker told his church this past sunday night about how the tv vote went - said the organization took a turn towards destruction. He also said he was suprised at how many ministers nationwide are not happy.


Booker went on to say that the day of the vote was such an emotional day of sadness just like when JFK was shot and when the towers were hit on 9/11. He got the same feeling when the vote passed as on 9/11.


It is interesting to note that the original vote against tv took place in Tulsa in 1955 - maybe that's why they picked Tulsa as the place to form the new organization - to make a statement?


Also, Tommy Craft went to see Ken Phillips before the vote and apparently Wanda Phillips pleaded with Tommy Craft saying "don't let the movement (upc) go the way we did in regards to television. TV will steal everything from you"

crying and screaming Booker said in his message "me and and many other good men refuse to go that route - we will stand for holiness"


gave an example of how the PAW lost its standards and holiness.


said he would still fellowship his close (ulta-con) friends that stay in the upc

[deltaguitar]

When these guys leave will they be known as CHARISMATICS???


:stirpot

[Sandra]

When these guys leave will they be known as CHARISMATICS???


:stirpot

Yeah, you are right. I don't consider myself charismatic. To me Charismatics run around the church with flags , very flakey and always talking about love ,love ,love.:D

[delta soundman]

Is it safe to say that most of the loudest critics of Res 4 at some point in their ministry made this bold statement "HAVING A TV WILL SEND YOU TO HELL!!". Making statements like this box you into a corner. What blows my mind is that they think people don't see this. These men cannot fathom having to look into the faces of people they have condemned all these years and now say its ok. How many funerals have these men preached and in their hearts "known" they didn't make it cause they had a TV. Pride is pushing the Tulsa meeting, rotten stinking pride. :digging

[Thad]

****BONUS FLASH *****


Did you also hear that REV. Larry Booker is no longer listed in the online minister's directory - he must have pulled out already right after the vote?

several other CA. pastors are no longer listed either. however Myles young still is (probably did not process it yet).

[Sandra]

Is it safe to say that most of the loudest critics of Res 4 at some point in their ministry made this bold statement "HAVING A TV WILL SEND YOU TO HELL!!". Making statements like this box you into a corner. What blows my mind is that they think people don't see this. These men cannot fathom having to look into the faces of people they have condemned all these years and now say its ok. How many funerals have these men preached and in their hearts "known" they didn't make it cause they had a TV. Pride is pushing the Tulsa meeting, rotten stinking pride. :digging

Why can't they just be honest and stand before their people and say " I was wrong". PRIDE , PRIDE , PRIDE, they won't do it.

[Thad]

When these guys leave will they be known as CHARISMATICS???


:stirpot


No, They'll be calling the UPC charismatic- don't you think ??


A friend of mine talked to their niece yesterday and the niece's friend who goes to a Large church here in CA. that's pulling out called her and said" what side are you on " ? the niece said " i'm not on any side". the other girl said" well if you stay UPC we can no longer be friends"

[Thad]

Is it safe to say that most of the loudest critics of Res 4 at some point in their ministry made this bold statement "HAVING A TV WILL SEND YOU TO HELL!!". Making statements like this box you into a corner. What blows my mind is that they think people don't see this. These men cannot fathom having to look into the faces of people they have condemned all these years and now say its ok. How many funerals have these men preached and in their hearts "known" they didn't make it cause they had a TV. Pride is pushing the Tulsa meeting, rotten stinking pride. :digging

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------







I'm reporting this comment to BOOMM!!!!!!

[LaVonne]

No, They'll be calling the UPC charismatic- don't you think ??


A friend of mine talked to their niece yesterday and the niece's friend who goes to a Large church here in CA. that's pulling out called her and said" what side are you on " ? the niece said " i'm not on any side". the other girl said" well if you stay UPC we can no longer be friends"

That's too bad...sad day indeed, sounds like Oregon or typical West Coast style.

[MrsMcD]

No, They'll be calling the UPC charismatic- don't you think ??


A friend of mine talked to their niece yesterday and the niece's friend who goes to a Large church here in CA. that's pulling out called her and said" what side are you on " ? the niece said " i'm not on any side". the other girl said" well if you stay UPC we can no longer be friends"

She wasn't a friend to begin with. That's what I call warped thinking!

[Thad]

That's too bad...sad day indeed, sounds like Oregon or typical West Coast style.



you mean you've heard of this type of thing before ??

[Thad]

She wasn't a friend to begin with. That's what I call warped thinking!


any thoughts on Larry booker's message ???

[LaVonne]

you mean you've heard of this type of thing before ??

It's the same as when you decide to change churches in Oregon...you can no longer fellowship with the people of the church you left, even if you stay UPC.

[deltaguitar]

No, They'll be calling the UPC charismatic- don't you think ??


A friend of mine talked to their niece yesterday and the niece's friend who goes to a Large church here in CA. that's pulling out called her and said" what side are you on " ? the niece said " i'm not on any side". the other girl said" well if you stay UPC we can no longer be friends"

You know. I have a hard time believing stuff like this. I am from one of the most backward UPC districts there is and I just don't hear stuff like this.

[Thad]

It's the same as when you decide to change churches in Oregon...you can no longer fellowship with the people of the church you left, even if you stay UPC.



HEY!! speaking or Oregon, I hear there is quite a shaking going on up there!!!!

11 churches leving last i heard ??????? going with the Tulsa group!!!!!!

[Thad]

You know. I have a hard time believing stuff like this. I am from one of the most backward UPC districts there is and I just don't hear stuff like this.


Believe you me DG, we live it, breathe it, and even have to smell it! :ursofunny - you just cannot imagine how polorizing it is out here.

[Sandra]

This is so exciting to me all these people leaving the UPC, it has been divided for years.

[DividedThigh]

No, They'll be calling the UPC charismatic- don't you think ??


A friend of mine talked to their niece yesterday and the niece's friend who goes to a Large church here in CA. that's pulling out called her and said" what side are you on " ? the niece said " i'm not on any side". the other girl said" well if you stay UPC we can no longer be friends"

no they will not be known as charasmatics, more likely radical fundamentalists or ultra con hard heads, it really is all the same and badge of honor for them, dt:donuts

[MrsMcD]

any thoughts on Larry booker's message ???

I disagree with LB that the organization has taken a turn toward destruction. I think the organization will end up better.

I can’t imagine Wanda Phillips pleading with Tommy Craft about TV. If ministers are only advertising on TV, I don’t see what TV will take away from them. If anything, it will get the message out there that their church exist.

[delta soundman]

Why can't they just be honest and stand before their people and say " I was wrong". PRIDE , PRIDE , PRIDE, they won't do it.

When these ministers reflect on their minstry they cannot imagine the numbers they have affected in a negative way. After the reflection, some might realize they have drove more away than they brought in. You know those kind, "the us four and no more" people. They don't even realize how bad they look justifing internet and condemning TV. That one point marginalizes anything they say. No matter how many point they make against TV, internet will always trump it.

[ChicagoPastor]

Yeah, you are right. I don't consider myself charismatic. To me Charismatics run around the church with flags , very flakey and always talking about love ,love ,love.:D

HEY! we use flags! :bliss
:tattle (and we're still UPC)

[Thad]

She wasn't a friend to begin with. That's what I call warped thinking!



All of this is having a profound effect on the Youth

[Thad]

CP

any thoughts on this message ?

[Pastor Keith]

Thad,

Larry's Name is still in the online directory,

http://wec.upci.org/churches/locator/search_last.asp

[deltaguitar]

any thoughts on Larry booker's message ???

Typical. Fear, fear, and more fear.

I have heard this fear message preached my whole life. That is how they keep us locked in.

Watch out the anti-christ is coming to put a chip in your hand.

Look out there is a demon in your house because you listened to "CHRISTIAN ROCK" music.

Don't let your kids play baseball because there was a family once that did and they left church.

If you cut your hair God won't protect your family.

If you don't shout when the preacher yells you must not love Jesus.

If you grow a beard then you are rebellious which is the same as the sin of witchcraft.

Watchout those charismatics will get you and you will be lost forever.

You know after a while the fear stops working and it make these folks develope serious hate issues. That is why so many UPCers have bad attitudes, I can say this because I used to be this way. Because they feel that because they do certain things that they will be more holy and more spiritual and when they see someone going to a baseball game or wearing shorts they just can't understand why God would bless those people.

I remember coming home from youth camp and having this guilt that we shouldn't do anything in life that might make us "perform" less in church.




:runhills

[SDG]

For all the rhetoric ... guess who will be the leaders and saviors of God's holiness movement???

[Sandra]

HEY! we use flags! :bliss
:tattle (and we're still UPC)

Flakey with flags.... charismatic:D
Flags without being flakey... ok....lol

[ChicagoPastor]

Bro. Booker is VERY good at stirring up emotion. (i know most preachers are)
This reminds me of when he got up at Salt Lake City three years ago with his compelling reason why we needed to vote against the TV resolution then...

i can't remeber the story he used, something about a medium......anyhow he totally took the story out of context to fit what he was trying to say and it stirred up emotion, but it was out of context.

To compare the TV vote to 9/11 OR JFK being shot? ?????????????? that's drama that's little over-the-top for me.

[Thad]

Thad,

Larry's Name is still in the online directory,

http://wec.upci.org/churches/locator/search_last.asp

interesting

A friend of mine checked it just a few days ago and it was not on the list.

[Thad]

For all the rhetoric ... guess who will be the leaders and saviors of God's holiness movement???


Dan, what point are you trying to make here??

and who are you referring to ?

[delta soundman]

Bro. Booker is VERY good at stirring up emotion. (i know most preachers are)
This reminds me of when he got up at Salt Lake City three years ago with his compelling reason why we needed to vote against the TV resolution then...

i can't remeber the story he used, something about a medium......anyhow he totally took the story out of context to fit what he was trying to say and it stirred up emotion, but it was out of context.

To compare the TV vote to 9/11?????????????? that's drama or JFK being shot? that's little over-the-top for me.

This just shows the extent some "men of God" will go to be seen as right. Quite sad and disgusting IMO.

[Thad]

Bro. Booker is VERY good at stirring up emotion. (i know most preachers are)
This reminds me of when he got up at Salt Lake City three years ago with his compelling reason why we needed to vote against the TV resolution then...

i can't remeber the story he used, something about a medium......anyhow he totally took the story out of context to fit what he was trying to say and it stirred up emotion, but it was out of context.

To compare the TV vote to 9/11?????????????? that's drama or JFK being shot? that's little over-the-top for me.



Yea! comparing the day TV passed to the Day JFK got shot- wow


.

[Neck]

Did you Hear about Larry Booker's Latest controversial message???????

here are bits and pieces (quotes) taken from it.


give your opinion, good or bad so that we can discuss it.


Booker told his church this past sunday night about how the tv vote went - said the organization took a turn towards destruction. He also said he was suprised at how many ministers nationwide are not happy.


Booker went on to say that the day of the vote was such an emotional day of sadness just like when JFK was shot and when the towers were hit on 9/11. He got the same feeling when the vote passed as on 9/11.


It is interesting to note that the original vote against tv took place in Tulsa in 1955 - maybe that's why they picked Tulsa as the place to form the new organization - to make a statement?


Also, Tommy Craft went to see Ken Phillips before the vote and apparently Wanda Phillips pleaded with Tommy Craft saying "don't let the movement (upc) go the way we did in regards to television. TV will steal everything from you"

crying and screaming Booker said in his message "me and and many other good men refuse to go that route - we will stand for holiness"


gave an example of how the PAW lost its standards and holiness.


said he would still fellowship his close (ulta-con) friends that stay in the upc

His statements come from his belief that the UPCI is a moving force in the world.

He will find once out after leaving the organization... (for Liberal or Con reasons) that he was in a very narrow and sheltered world.



:hanky

[Pastor G]

You know, I am just sitting here this morning reflecting on our day yesterday at the church I pastor... As a pastor I feel pretty good today after baptising a brand new family of 5 yesteday in Jesus name... I also had a family come back to our church after leaving a few months ago... I was also thinking how my saints might feel this morning after reflecting on yesterday... They wrapped their collective arms around a new family and an old one that returned... The father of the new family was one who worked with a few of the guys in our church and their witness is what brought the new family in... I believe after hearing a message on the goodness of God at this Thanksgiving time and seeing new and old families added to the kingdom, our saints have a very positive start to their week..

I say that because if the original post is true, some saints in LB's church after this sermon are not focused on witnessing, but deciding who they can now fellowship and who they can't... Some are probably sitting back and asking themselves... "Is this guy serious? I might need to rethink where I go to church."

Thad, my thoughts about his sermon? IMO is might have been a sermon, but not the gospel!!

BTW, I know the Phillips well and I don't believe for one minute Wanda said that... Like a lot of those guys do, they might have read that from the SAV version... (The Slightly Altered Version)

[SDG]

Bro. Booker is VERY good at stirring up emotion. (i know most preachers are)
This reminds me of when he got up at Salt Lake City three years ago with his compelling reason why we needed to vote against the TV resolution then...

i can't remeber the story he used, something about a medium......anyhow he totally took the story out of context to fit what he was trying to say and it stirred up emotion, but it was out of context.

To compare the TV vote to 9/11?????????????? that's drama or JFK being shot? that's little over-the-top for me.

His medium story sounds like his non-biblical argument against organized sports ... I believe in one of his books ... when he could not give a biblical reason ... he simply could relate a dream about sports and his kids ... and how God showed him that they would be lost if they got involved.

It's pandering and manipulation, IMO.

[Sandra]

His statements come from his belief that the UPCI is a moving force in the world.

He will find once out the organization for Liberal or Con reasons that his was in a very narrow and sheltered world.



:hanky

Is he living under a ROCK? When I mention UPC to people most have NEVER heard of it.

[SDG]

BTW, I know the Phillips well and I don't believe for one minute Wanda said that... Like a lot of those guys do, they might have read that from the SAV version... (The Slightly Altered Version)

I would pay money to the person who could verify the veracity of the alleged WP quote w/ Wanda herself.

[Sandra]

You know, I am just sitting here this morning reflecting on our day yesterday at the church I pastor... As a pastor I feel pretty good today after baptising a brand new family of 5 yesteday in Jesus name... I also had a family come back to our church after leaving a few months ago... I was also thinking how my saints might feel this morning after reflecting on yesterday... They wrapped their collective arms around a new family and an old one that returned... The father of the new family was one who worked with a few of the guys in our church and their witness is what brought the new family in... I believe after hearing a message on the goodness of God at this Thanksgiving time and seeing new and old families added to the kingdom, our saints have a very positive start to their week..

I say that because if the original post is true, some saints in LB's church after this sermon are not focused on witnessing, but deciding who they can now fellowship and who they can't... Some are probably sitting back and asking themselves... "Is this guy serious? I might need to rethink where I go to church."

Thad, my thoughts about his sermon? IMO is might have been a sermon, but not the gospel!!

BTW, I know the Phillips well and I don't believe for one minute Wanda said that... Like a lot of those guys do, they might have read that from the SAV version... (The Slightly Altered Version)


Great post!

[delta soundman]

His statements come from his belief that the UPCI is a moving force in the world.

He will find once out the organization for Liberal or Con reasons that his was in a very narrow and sheltered world.


:hanky

Since jumping ship a few months ago, I find that the great respect that my former church had in the community was not so great afterall. People I have known for years come up to me and say "I've always respected your family but that church was just offensive" or "I never felt I could get holy enough to visit your church." It is amazing how skewed your perspective is when you are on the ship.

[LaVonne]

HEY!! speaking or Oregon, I hear there is quite a shaking going on up there!!!!

11 churches leving last i heard ??????? going with the Tulsa group!!!!!!

I posted some of this somewhere in TT.

PM me and tell me who all it it...I'm so curious!

[Neck]

Originally Posted by Thad
any thoughts on Larry booker's message ???

I disagree with LB that the organization has taken a turn toward destruction. I think the organization will end up better.

I can’t imagine Wanda Phillips pleading with Tommy Craft about TV. If ministers are only advertising on TV, I don’t see what TV will take away from them. If anything, it will get the message out there that their church exist.
__________________


The UPCI has not been relevant since the early 1960's.

If I were stilll in the UPCI I would not want many of the men on TV either.

Their message of salavation by Standards and how as quoted on AFF, Standards protect inward Holiness!

Would not be watched by anyone for more than 2 minutes.

Nate

[rgcraig]

Also, Tommy Craft went to see Ken Phillips before the vote and apparently Wanda Phillips pleaded with Tommy Craft saying "don't let the movement (upc) go the way we did in regards to television. TV will steal everything from you"


So, did Booker say this in his sermon?

Or, was this just an added comment?

I don't believe it at all.

[SDG]

Why do these men think it's necessary to legitimize their kingdoms at every waking moment?

[MrsMcD]

Originally Posted by Thad
any thoughts on Larry booker's message ???

I disagree with LB that the organization has taken a turn toward destruction. I think the organization will end up better.

I can’t imagine Wanda Phillips pleading with Tommy Craft about TV. If ministers are only advertising on TV, I don’t see what TV will take away from them. If anything, it will get the message out there that their church exist.
__________________


The UPCI has not been relevant since the early 1960's.

If I were stilll in the UPCI I would not want many of the men on TV either.

Their message of salavation by Standards and how as quoted on AFF, Standards protect inward Holiness!

Would not be watched by anyone for more than 2 minutes.

Nate

If the wrong UPCI preachers end up on tv it will be an embarrassment.

[Sandra]

If the wrong UPCI preachers end up on tv it will be an embarrassment.

Lawd Help:hanky:hanky:hanky:hanky

[chseeads]

Well, the ones that are willing to go on TV and preach probably won't be the ones that are so gungho to lay out the clothesline, ya know?

[Pastor G]

If the wrong UPCI preachers end up on tv it will be an embarrassment.

I have never seen a program or commercial, where a church or pastor identified what organization they were affiliated with...

[delta soundman]

If the wrong UPCI preachers end up on tv it will be an embarrassment.

LOL! I have had the same thought. There are a lot of preachers that have NO business on TV.:bubble

[Thad]

I posted some of this somewhere in TT.

PM me and tell me who all it it...I'm so curious!


PM coming...

[Thad]

back in a while folks.....

stay tuned !! more news flashes and threads to come :bliss

[Sandra]

I have never seen a program or commercial, where a church or pastor identified what organization they were affiliated with...

this is true, the name of the church may have united pentecostal in it.:hanky

[LaVonne]

PM coming...

Thanks!

[Pastor G]

this is true, the name of the church may have united pentecostal in it.:hanky

Thinking of who may go on, I doubt there are too many that have that in their church name... Even still most if not all at this point will only be in their immediate area, not national.... In my area the commercial area is broken up into about 10 districts...

[Neck]

Did you Hear about Larry Booker's Latest controversial message???????

here are bits and pieces (quotes) taken from it.


give your opinion, good or bad so that we can discuss it.


Booker told his church this past sunday night about how the tv vote went - said the organization took a turn towards destruction. He also said he was suprised at how many ministers nationwide are not happy.


Booker went on to say that the day of the vote was such an emotional day of sadness just like when JFK was shot and when the towers were hit on 9/11. He got the same feeling when the vote passed as on 9/11.


It is interesting to note that the original vote against tv took place in Tulsa in 1955 - maybe that's why they picked Tulsa as the place to form the new organization - to make a statement?


Also, Tommy Craft went to see Ken Phillips before the vote and apparently Wanda Phillips pleaded with Tommy Craft saying "don't let the movement (upc) go the way we did in regards to television. TV will steal everything from you"

crying and screaming Booker said in his message "me and and many other good men refuse to go that route - we will stand for holiness"


gave an example of how the PAW lost its standards and holiness.


said he would still fellowship his close (ulta-con) friends that stay in the upc

******************************

Allright! My Dad John Eckstadt left Jackson college in 1975 and moved us to Ft. Worth where he taught at Mark Hanby's Wide World Of Ministries Bible College.

Right in the heart of Mark Hanby and Kenneth Phillips talking about buying a TV Studio.

When we left Jackson Tommy Craft said scaving things to my Dad about his leaving and about both Mark Hanby and Kenneth Phillips.

I know that MH and KP have gone in their directions over the past 30 years.

I don't believe for a moment that Kenneth or Wanda Phillips talked to him or made any of these statements.

I also saw Tommy Craft within feet of MH and KP at a preconference rally at the Capus Drive Church of Mark Hanby in 1975.

I see Kenneth Phillips on Friday Night Lights. He does not look beated down because of TV.

Nathan Eckstadt

[Thad]

*** UPDATE*** MORE REVELATIONS ***


(((Attention Keith and Renda)))


In the church directory he is listed but on the online ministers directory https://wec.upci.org/ministers/default.asp

he is not listed

Also, regarding Tommy Craft and the phillips, he did not say their names, but said the two men who left in 1977 over tv.

I assumed hanby and phillips. Bookers said one of the preachers has gone down to nothing (that would be hamby correct?)

he said the other preacher has a large church, but looks nothing remotely apostolic - booker said this is the one tommy craft visited, so I assumed ken phillips

I also know that craft and phillips were good friends, phillips even came to the jackson homecoming last year.

So that is how I deduced ken and wanda phillips names - it maybe inaccurate, but who else would it be ??????

[deltaguitar]

LOL! I have had the same thought. There are a lot of preachers that have NO business on TV.:bubble

Like . . .?

[triumphant1]

So, did Booker say this in his sermon?

Or, was this just an added comment?

I don't believe it at all.

Go to inlandlighthouse.com

Go to the sermoms online link

The sermon tiltled "protecting the bean patch".

It is only on audio...of coarse...LOL.

He told the story but left out the names...so you'd have to be knowledgeable of the the "friends" of TC to know it was the Phillips....he also talked abot Mark Hamby....

Thad's original post was a truthful (except with the names added) I just listened to the sermon....

[rgcraig]

*** UPDATE*** MORE REVELATIONS ***


(((Attention Keith and Renda)))


In the church directory he is listed but on the online ministers directory https://wec.upci.org/ministers/default.asp

he is not listed

Also, regarding Tommy Craft and the phillips, he did not say their names, but said the two men who left in 1977 over tv.

I assumed hanby and phillips. Bookers said one of the preachers has gone down to nothing (that would be hamby correct?)

he said the other preacher has a large church, but looks nothing remotely apostolic - booker said this is the one tommy craft visited, so I assumed ken phillips

I also know that craft and phillips were good friends, phillips even came to the jackson homecoming last year.

So that is how I deduced ken and wanda phillips names - it maybe inaccurate, but who else would it be ??????
Assuming is what can get ya in trouble Thadeous!

[triumphant1]

His altar call was to call all the kids 12 and under to the platform....

He used the as an object lesson to say, This is why we are not going that way...these kids deserve a chance to be a part of a move of God....to get drunk on the Holy Ghost....We're not goingto let them go to hell in a hand basket....I want my babies to feel and know God"

That'll pull the ole heartstrings and solidify the young couples to his new direction...

BTW THAD, did you notice how he didn't use any scripture past his text? All he did was tell one "horror story" after the next about ex-UPC preachers and churches.....glad to see his sermon so heavily rooted in the word....

[Straightline]

Did you Hear about Larry Booker's Latest controversial message???????

here are bits and pieces (quotes) taken from it.


give your opinion, good or bad so that we can discuss it.


Booker told his church this past sunday night about how the tv vote went - said the organization took a turn towards destruction. He also said he was suprised at how many ministers nationwide are not happy.


Booker went on to say that the day of the vote was such an emotional day of sadness just like when JFK was shot and when the towers were hit on 9/11. He got the same feeling when the vote passed as on 9/11.


It is interesting to note that the original vote against tv took place in Tulsa in 1955 - maybe that's why they picked Tulsa as the place to form the new organization - to make a statement?


Also, Tommy Craft went to see Ken Phillips before the vote and apparently Wanda Phillips pleaded with Tommy Craft saying "don't let the movement (upc) go the way we did in regards to television. TV will steal everything from you"

crying and screaming Booker said in his message "me and and many other good men refuse to go that route - we will stand for holiness"


gave an example of how the PAW lost its standards and holiness.


said he would still fellowship his close (ulta-con) friends that stay in the upc

Are these actually QUOTES, as promised? Most of the paragraphs are not quotes. For clearest communication, please provide actual quotes (I assume that you have the actual sermon...)

:bubble


There is no circular logic in a
Straightline

[triumphant1]

Are these actually QUOTES, as promised? Most of the paragraphs are not quotes. For clearest communication, please provide actual quotes (I assume that you have the actual sermon...)

:bubble


There is no circular logic in a
Straightline

GO listen to it yourself...

www.inlandlighthouse.com

go to sermons online...

the name of the sermon is, "Protecting the bean patch"...

It is audio format so you don't have to be afraid of that evil video....

[Thad]

as was stated by Triumpant, you can go to their website and here the sermon in its entirety.

Renda, okay who then would it be?? it's quite obvious who it was being made reference to

[MrsMcD]

His altar call was to call all the kids 12 and under to the platform....

He used the as an object lesson to say, This is why we are not going that way...these kids deserve a chance to be a part of a move of God....to get drunk on the Holy Ghost....We're not goingto let them go to hell in a hand basket....I want my babies to feel and know God"

That'll pull the ole heartstrings and solidify the young couples to his new direction...

BTW THAD, did you notice how he didn't use any scripture past his text? All he did was tell one "horror story" after the next about ex-UPC preachers and churches.....glad to see his sermon so heavily rooted in the word....

Scare tactics! This is really sad. I feel sorry for the kids. This is how we end up so brain washed.

[LaVonne]

Scare tactics! This is really sad. I feel sorry for the kids. This is how we end up so brain washed.

This is so typical of this bunch of people...rule by fear.

[Sacerdotal]

Well here we go again. This whole thread epitomizes what is warped about the way some people think. Cast a lot of assumptions out there and sprinkle it with a dash of truth and you have a half truth pie to smash in the face of innocent people.

Does Larry Booker preach strong? Yes. But, honestly, look at how completely stupid this thread is:'
He's not in the manual. Oops, yes he is.
He said this about her. Oops, I assumed it was her.
He talked about them. Oops, he didn't say them by name.
He did this. Oops, it was my friend that said it not me.

Go on people. Rally the troops. Let's attack good men we know pretty much nothing about. Arm yourselves with facts that just aren't.

Puke. What a pathetic mess of suppositions some people will gather around.

[triumphant1]

as was stated by Triumpant, you can go to their website and here the sermon in its entirety.

Renda, okay who then would it be?? it's quite obvious who it was being made reference to

Thad..those who know the history know the "three" were KP, TC, and MH....you did not miss your assumption...

[Neck]

*** UPDATE*** MORE REVELATIONS ***


(((Attention Keith and Renda)))


In the church directory he is listed but on the online ministers directory https://wec.upci.org/ministers/default.asp

he is not listed

Also, regarding Tommy Craft and the phillips, he did not say their names, but said the two men who left in 1977 over tv.

I assumed hanby and phillips. Bookers said one of the preachers has gone down to nothing (that would be hamby correct?)

he said the other preacher has a large church, but looks nothing remotely apostolic - booker said this is the one tommy craft visited, so I assumed ken phillips

I also know that craft and phillips were good friends, phillips even came to the jackson homecoming last year.

So that is how I deduced ken and wanda phillips names - it maybe inaccurate, but who else would it be ??????

I did not see love from KP and TC years ago. Maybe that has changed.

[delta soundman]

Well here we go again. This whole thread epitomizes what is warped about the way some people think. Cast a lot of assumptions out there and sprinkle it with a dash of truth and you have a half truth pie to smash in the face of innocent people.

Does Larry Booker preach strong? Yes. But, honestly, look at how completely stupid this thread is:'
He's not in the manual. Oops, yes he is.
He said this about her. Oops, I assumed it was her.
He talked about them. Oops, he didn't say them by name.
He did this. Oops, it was my friend that said it not me.

Go on people. Rally the troops. Let's attack good men we know pretty much nothing about. Arm yourselves with facts that just aren't.

Puke. What a pathetic mess of suppositions some people will gather around.

You may not be a company man but you sure act like one.:bubble

[MrsMcD]

Well here we go again. This whole thread epitomizes what is warped about the way some people think. Cast a lot of assumptions out there and sprinkle it with a dash of truth and you have a half truth pie to smash in the face of innocent people.

Does Larry Booker preach strong? Yes. But, honestly, look at how completely stupid this thread is:'
He's not in the manual. Oops, yes he is.
He said this about her. Oops, I assumed it was her.
He talked about them. Oops, he didn't say them by name.
He did this. Oops, it was my friend that said it not me.

Go on people. Rally the troops. Let's attack good men we know pretty much nothing about. Arm yourselves with facts that just aren't.

Puke. What a pathetic mess of suppositions some people will gather around.

Is it okay that LB said the organization is headed for destruction?

[Thad]

Well here we go again. This whole thread epitomizes what is warped about the way some people think. Cast a lot of assumptions out there and sprinkle it with a dash of truth and you have a half truth pie to smash in the face of innocent people.

Does Larry Booker preach strong? Yes. But, honestly, look at how completely stupid this thread is:'
He's not in the manual. Oops, yes he is.
He said this about her. Oops, I assumed it was her.
He talked about them. Oops, he didn't say them by name.
He did this. Oops, it was my friend that said it not me.

Go on people. Rally the troops. Let's attack good men we know pretty much nothing about. Arm yourselves with facts that just aren't.

Puke. What a pathetic mess of suppositions some people will gather around.

the manual?? or the online directory? the clarification was made on that.

the preachers who left in '77 over TV???? who else was it then if it wasn't phillips and hanby??

i'm not attacking anyone-show me where? talk about assumptions!

[ChurchMouse]

Well here we go again. This whole thread epitomizes what is warped about the way some people think. Cast a lot of assumptions out there and sprinkle it with a dash of truth and you have a half truth pie to smash in the face of innocent people.

Does Larry Booker preach strong? Yes. But, honestly, look at how completely stupid this thread is:'
He's not in the manual. Oops, yes he is.
He said this about her. Oops, I assumed it was her.
He talked about them. Oops, he didn't say them by name.
He did this. Oops, it was my friend that said it not me.

Go on people. Rally the troops. Let's attack good men we know pretty much nothing about. Arm yourselves with facts that just aren't.

Puke. What a pathetic mess of suppositions some people will gather around.



:amen

[triumphant1]

Well here we go again. This whole thread epitomizes what is warped about the way some people think. Cast a lot of assumptions out there and sprinkle it with a dash of truth and you have a half truth pie to smash in the face of innocent people.

Does Larry Booker preach strong? Yes. But, honestly, look at how completely stupid this thread is:'
He's not in the manual. Oops, yes he is.
He said this about her. Oops, I assumed it was her.
He talked about them. Oops, he didn't say them by name.
He did this. Oops, it was my friend that said it not me.

Go on people. Rally the troops. Let's attack good men we know pretty much nothing about. Arm yourselves with facts that just aren't.

Puke. What a pathetic mess of suppositions some people will gather around.

GO listen to the sermon...

www.inlandlighthouse.com

Then say who is assuming what...

I just listened to it in its entirety and this thread is not off base as far as content...

The only assumptions here was that LB never actually said the names of the ones he was talking about...but in 1977 there were three close friends and everyone knows it...two left and one stayed...and everyone knows it...two went on TV, one lost his church in about three years the other pastors still...

Dn't be stupid please....everyone who knows the history knows the two that left were Kenneth Phillips and Mark Hamby...and that Mark Hamby lost his church...everyone also knows that Tommy Craft still maintains close contact witht he Phillips...

When you are talking about TV, the UPC, and 1977...there is NO DOUBT it is Phillips and Hamby.

[Neck]

Is it okay that LB said the organization is headed for destruction?

It's headed to more obscurity.

[Thad]

Thad..those who know the history know the "three" were KP, TC, and MH....you did not miss your assumption...


I know I didn't!!!! the folks that are attacking me are reaching at best!(maybe including renda)

[Steadfast]

Are these actually QUOTES, as promised? Most of the paragraphs are not quotes. For clearest communication, please provide actual quotes (I assume that you have the actual sermon...)

:bubble


There is no circular logic in a
Straightline

What?!?!? And ruin a good bashing? You've got to be kidding!

I know Larry Booker... I preach for him and am scheduled to be there again in a few months. SO MUCH of what is being said of the man is simply not true.

He's a man of convictions and depth who has the guts to stand by his convictions even if it makes him unpopular. Obviously that is not a very 'welcomed' thing among some of the AFF crowd.

If you don't share his convictions, fine. But why attack someone over something they have a conviction over? It simply shows the shallowness of some on this forum.

For the record, I have spoken to Bro. Booker at some length and have NEVER heard him trash one person by name. I've never heard him put ONE PERSON IN HELL over this resolution. His mentality is simply, "I don't agree and will find fellowship elsewhere to protect what I believe is best for my church."

Oddly enough, I don't see that mentality reciprocated on this thread... or forum much for that matter.

In regards to his license? He says he isn't sure what he'll do and will have to make up his mind when the time comes.

Those are the facts... Not that facts would matter to those who would rather carry a club to pummel than 'good intentions'.

Sad.

[Steadfast]

Well here we go again. This whole thread epitomizes what is warped about the way some people think. Cast a lot of assumptions out there and sprinkle it with a dash of truth and you have a half truth pie to smash in the face of innocent people.

Does Larry Booker preach strong? Yes. But, honestly, look at how completely stupid this thread is:'
He's not in the manual. Oops, yes he is.
He said this about her. Oops, I assumed it was her.
He talked about them. Oops, he didn't say them by name.
He did this. Oops, it was my friend that said it not me.

Go on people. Rally the troops. Let's attack good men we know pretty much nothing about. Arm yourselves with facts that just aren't.

Puke. What a pathetic mess of suppositions some people will gather around.

:bliss
My sentiments pretty much exactly.

[ChurchMouse]

:yourockWhat?!?!? And ruin a good bashing? You've got to be kidding!

I know Larry Booker... I preach for him and am scheduled to be there again in a few months. SO MUCH of what is being said of the man is simply not true.

He's a man of convictions and depth who has the guts to stand by his convictions even if it makes him unpopular. Obviously that is not a very 'welcomed' thing among some of the AFF crowd.

If you don't share his convictions, fine. But why attack someone over something they have a conviction over? It simply shows the shallowness of some on this forum.

For the record, I have spoken to Bro. Booker at some length and have NEVER heard him trash one person by name. I've never heard him put ONE PERSON IN HELL over this resolution. His mentality is simply, "I don't agree and will find fellowship elsewhere to protect what I believe is best for my church."

Oddly enough, I don't see that mentality reciprocated on this thread... or forum much for that matter.

In regards to his license? He say he isn't sure what he'll do and will have to make up his mind when the time comes.

Those are the facts... Not that facts would matter to those who would rather carry a club to pummel than 'good intentions'.

Sad.

[Thad]

What?!?!? And ruin a good bashing? You've got to be kidding!

I know Larry Booker... I preach for him and am scheduled to be there again in a few months. SO MUCH of what is being said of the man is simply not true.

He's a man of convictions and depth who has the guts to stand by his convictions even if it makes him unpopular. Obviously that is not a very 'welcomed' thing among some of the AFF crowd.

If you don't share his convictions, fine. But why attack someone over something they have a conviction over? It simply shows the shallowness of some on this forum.

For the record, I have spoken to Bro. Booker at some length and have NEVER heard him trash one person by name. I've never heard him put ONE PERSON IN HELL over this resolution. His mentality is simply, "I don't agree and will find fellowship elsewhere to protect what I believe is best for my church."

Oddly enough, I don't see that mentality reciprocated on this thread... or forum much for that matter.

In regards to his license? He say he isn't sure what he'll do and will have to make up his mind when the time comes.

Those are the facts... Not that facts would matter to those who would rather carry a club to pummel than 'good intentions'.

Sad.


Bro Steadfast,

can you point out to me what was said that was not true ? His sermon was put on their website for the public to hear- no?
Other than the fact that he didnt come right out and say "wanda", we that know and rememebr the '77 split, automatically know exactly who he was referring to.
i started the thread so that posters could make their comments pro or against the sermon.

[Steadfast]

Is it okay that LB said the organization is headed for destruction?

I suspect that's exactly where he feels it's headed. I'm a part of the UPC but I don't suspect it will ever again be the 'UPC' that it once was. I'm of the camp that could 'live with' TV advertising but also believe that it will NEVER stop there.

There are many who think the 'best days' of the UPC are behind us. I sincerely hope they are wrong.

[SDG]

His altar call was to call all the kids 12 and under to the platform....

He used the as an object lesson to say, This is why we are not going that way...these kids deserve a chance to be a part of a move of God....to get drunk on the Holy Ghost....We're not goingto let them go to hell in a hand basket....I want my babies to feel and know God"

That'll pull the ole heartstrings and solidify the young couples to his new direction...

BTW THAD, did you notice how he didn't use any scripture past his text? All he did was tell one "horror story" after the next about ex-UPC preachers and churches.....glad to see his sermon so heavily rooted in the word....

What was his prooftext ..... who knew the bean patch needed protecting?

Guess who has been deputized as the bean patch PROTECTOR?

[SoCaliUPC]

Here is my opinion....

-I do not think the UPC is headed for destruction. I think it is wishful thinking of a few.

-I think he is speaking evangelistically when he says many ministers are upset. Let the final numbers speak for themselves.

[triumphant1]

What?!?!? And ruin a good bashing? You've got to be kidding!

I know Larry Booker... I preach for him and am scheduled to be there again in a few months. SO MUCH of what is being said of the man is simply not true.

He's a man of convictions and depth who has the guts to stand by his convictions even if it makes him unpopular. Obviously that is not a very 'welcomed' thing among some of the AFF crowd.

If you don't share his convictions, fine. But why attack someone over something they have a conviction over? It simply shows the shallowness of some on this forum.

For the record, I have spoken to Bro. Booker at some length and have NEVER heard him trash one person by name. I've never heard him put ONE PERSON IN HELL over this resolution. His mentality is simply, "I don't agree and will find fellowship elsewhere to protect what I believe is best for my church."

Oddly enough, I don't see that mentality reciprocated on this thread... or forum much for that matter.

In regards to his license? He say he isn't sure what he'll do and will have to make up his mind when the time comes.

Those are the facts... Not that facts would matter to those who would rather carry a club to pummel than 'good intentions'.

Sad.

I agree in part at least...and am sorry if my interaction on this thread has contributed to unfair criticism....I have tried to present the sermon facts in order to keep it straight since it is a topic this morning...

I do not agree with him...I do not like to hear sermons with little scriptural backing (but understand that sometimes it is more of a "state of the union" address than a sermon)....I am not accustomed any more to the use of multiple "scare stories" to prove a spiritual point (which to me serve to elicite some emotional response through the means of fear)...but hey,

LB can preach what he wants to preach and it's no skin off my teeth.

I have also repeatedly tried to encourage people to go to:

www.inlandlighthouse.com

and listen to the sermon for themselves if they care to....

[SDG]

Why is it only attacking and bashing when we discuss the UC Levites but the TBN crowd is fair game????

[Thad]

Why is it only attacking and bashing when we discuss the UC Levites but the TBN crowd is fair game????


They are not in the truth

[rgcraig]

Here is my opinion....

-I do not think the UPC is headed for destruction. I think it is wishful thinking of a few.

-I think he is speaking evangelistically when he says many ministers are upset. Let the final numbers speak for themselves.

I think since the link is there that everyone needs to listen to it before jumping to conclusions.

I also know that "conversations" between two people get all messed up after being told over and over again and sometimes those "conversations" are spiced up a bit to enhance the point.

[SDG]

They are not in the truth

Has anyone seen the motion sickness bag???

[Steadfast]

They are not in the truth

Sounds like a pretty accurate assessment to me. :bubble

[triumphant1]

What was his prooftext ..... who knew the bean patch needed protecting?

Guess who has been deputized as the bean patch PROTECTOR?

2 Samuel 23 beginning with verse 8....

[SDG]

Sounds like a pretty accurate assessment to me. :bubble

Sounds like a load of hooey to me .... fair game if your sermon's online ....

[Thad]

Bro Steadfast,

can you point out to me what was said that was not true ? His sermon was put on their website for the public to hear- no?
Other than the fact that he didnt come right out and say "wanda", we that know and rememebr the '77 split, automatically know exactly who he was referring to.
i started the thread so that posters could make their comments pro or against the sermon.


bump for steadfast

[triumphant1]

If you folks want to discuss and defend it....why don't you just go to:

www.inlandlighthouse.com

and listen to the sermon....it is titled "Protecting the bean patch".

[Steadfast]

Sounds like a load of hooey to me .... fair game if your sermon's online ....


I would expect nothing less from you, DA. However, I think you meant 'open season' instead of 'fair game'.

:tattle The 'kinder, gentler' you of late has probably disappointed so many people here.

[SDG]

2 Samuel 23 beginning with verse 8....

Interesting that he would use David's men as his text ... the destitute, indebted, and the lowly ... AND BEARDED.

too bad they're not allowed in his church unless they've shaven ...

[SDG]

I would expect nothing less from you, DA. However, I think you meant 'open season' instead of 'fair game'.

:tattle The 'kinder, gentler' you of late has probably disappointed so many people here.

Never mistake my gentleness for weakness ... my good Elder. :donuts

[Thad]

Has anyone seen the motion sickness bag???


be sure and hydrate afterwards (try gaterade :bliss)

[Thad]

I think since the link is there that everyone needs to listen to it before jumping to conclusions.

I also know that "conversations" between two people get all messed up after being told over and over again and sometimes those "conversations" are spiced up a bit to enhance the point.


and just who do you think uses these types of quotes & examples?

[rgcraig]

Bro Steadfast,

can you point out to me what was said that was not true ? His sermon was put on their website for the public to hear- no?
Other than the fact that he didnt come right out and say "wanda", we that know and rememebr the '77 split, automatically know exactly who he was referring to.
i started the thread so that posters could make their comments pro or against the sermon.

Apparently, from others listening to the sermon (I can't at work) it appears that he did say these things, so Thad has reported what he heard.

What concerns me is how sometimes things are relayed in sermons that might not be exactly word for word correct, but are told as if they were there themselves. That IS where I get upset.

[rgcraig]

and just who do you think uses these types of quotes & examples?

Whoever wants to make a point.

[Thad]

Apparently, from others listening to the sermon (I can't at work) it appears that he did say these things, so Thad has reported what he heard.

What concerns me is how sometimes things are relayed in sermons that might not be exactly word for word correct, but are told as if they were there themselves. That IS where I get upset.

are you referring mainly to preachers ???

[SDG]

I anticipate more rhetoric coming from the mini-kingdom pulpits as we approach the HOLY CONVOCATION and CORONATION.

Legitimacy is in.

[rgcraig]

are you referring mainly to preachers ???

I referring to anyone that tells something to enhance their point.

[Steadfast]

bump for steadfast

Thad, it didn't look too good to do the whole 'this is what was said' followed by the 'I didn't know for sure' stuff but... hey... we've seen that before. Honestly, the 'so many things said here' statement was NOT solely in reference to this thread alone but to a dozen other threads that try to make Bro. Booker out to be a vicious ogre on so many levels.

Again, he's simply not. I spent days with the man... spoke of MANY subjects (including this forum)... dealt with many issues (including the TV stuff) and NOT ONE TIME did the man say a negative word about anybody or be anything less than a gentleman.

This forum has had the man turning in his license when he hadn't... and various other things time and again. They were all fabrications of what 'someone told someone told someone'... just making them rumors at best and liars at worst!

I'm not saying that everyone has to agree with Bro. Booker on all issues. I do think, however, that those with carnal agendas disqualify themselves from having a legitimate opinion. Additionally, those without facts (even if they don't have agendas) should value their walk with God more than to jeopardize it over outright lies or half truths.

[ILG]

There was a time I would have been totally on board with the ultra-cons. I'm glad I'm not. :bubble

[Thad]

If you folks want to discuss and defend it....why don't you just go to:

www.inlandlighthouse.com

and listen to the sermon....it is titled "Protecting the bean patch".


Great point Triumpant! thanks

[ILG]

Thad, it didn't look too good to do the whole 'this is what was said' followed by the 'I didn't know for sure' stuff but... hey... we've seen that before. Honestly, the 'so many things said here' statement was NOT solely in reference to this thread alone but to a dozen other threads that try to make Bro. Booker out to be a vicious ogre on so many levels.

Again, he's simply not. I spent days with the man... spoke of MANY subjects (including this forum)... dealt with many issues (including the TV stuff) and NOT ONE TIME did the man say a negative word about anybody or be anything less than a gentleman.

This forum has had the man turning in his license when he hadn't... and various other things time and again. They were all fabrications of what 'someone told someone told someone'... just making them rumors at best and liars at worst!

I'm not saying that everyone has to agree with Bro. Booker on all issues. I do think, however, that those with carnal agendas disqualify themselves from having a legitimate opinion. Additionally, those without facts (even if they don't have agendas) should value their walk with God more than to jeopardize it over outright lies or half truths.

Larry Booker is a very kind, good man who just happens to be very conservative. He is living what he believes.

[SDG]

I referring to anyone that tells something to enhance their point.

Enhance or embellish?

Whatever happened to preaching the Gospel???

Anecdotal preaching without scriptural support .... gets me SICK ... cuz I leave HUNGRY

[Thad]

I anticipate more rhetoric coming from the mini-kingdom pulpits as we approach the HOLY CONVOCATION and CORONATION.

Legitimacy is in.



that was a little unkind Dan

[Steadfast]

Larry Booker is a very kind, good man who just happens to be very conservative. He is living what he believes.

ILG, that's too much solid reasoning for some here to handle. By the way, it's also a very good, very accurate post.

Thanks.

[triumphant1]

Thad, it didn't look too good to do the whole 'this is what was said' followed by the 'I didn't know for sure' stuff but... hey... we've seen that before. Honestly, the 'so many things said here' statement was NOT solely in reference to this thread alone but to a dozen other threads that try to make Bro. Booker out to be a vicious ogre on so many levels.

Again, he's simply not. I spent days with the man... spoke of MANY subjects (including this forum)... dealt with many issues (including the TV stuff) and NOT ONE TIME did the man say a negative word about anybody or be anything less than a gentleman.

This forum has had the man turning in his license when he hadn't... and various other things time and again. They were all fabrications of what 'someone told someone told someone'... just making them rumors at best and liars at worst!

I'm not saying that everyone has to agree with Bro. Booker on all issues. I do think, however, that those with carnal agendas disqualify themselves from having a legitimate opinion. Additionally, those without facts (even if they don't have agendas) should value their walk with God more than to jeopardize it over outright lies or half truths.

If you will take the time to listen to the sermon:

www.inlandlighthouse.com

"Protecting the Bean Patch"

You can authoritatlively say, "LB NEVER said in the sermon that he was "Leaving" the UPC....but since you havn't let me do it for you...

LB never said that he was leaving the UPC...only alluded to the fact that he might would 'seek other fellowship" and "would always fellowship the UC UPC whether they stay or leave"...but he didn't come right out and say, "I'm leaving."

I do think that he left the impression that he might...and that he was rallying the troops around the importance of being holiness, oneness, Apostolics and not "UPC"....he certainly rallied them around him and not around the org....

[Thad]

Thad, it didn't look too good to do the whole 'this is what was said' followed by the 'I didn't know for sure' stuff but... hey... we've seen that before. Honestly, the 'so many things said here' statement was NOT solely in reference to this thread alone but to a dozen other threads that try to make Bro. Booker out to be a vicious ogre on so many levels.

Again, he's simply not. I spent days with the man... spoke of MANY subjects (including this forum)... dealt with many issues (including the TV stuff) and NOT ONE TIME did the man say a negative word about anybody or be anything less than a gentleman.

This forum has had the man turning in his license when he hadn't... and various other things time and again. They were all fabrications of what 'someone told someone told someone'... just making them rumors at best and liars at worst!

I'm not saying that everyone has to agree with Bro. Booker on all issues. I do think, however, that those with carnal agendas disqualify themselves from having a legitimate opinion. Additionally, those without facts (even if they don't have agendas) should value their walk with God more than to jeopardize it over outright lies or half truths.


Have you heard the sermon? I really felt like i tried to be as accuarte as possible and clarified wherever needed and necessary.
If this was his statements and he stands by it, how can it be called lies and an attack on him ?

[triumphant1]

I have found LB to be very kind...and a man strong to his convitions as well.

[ILG]

ILG, that's too much solid reasoning for some here to handle. By the way, it's also a very good, very accurate post.

Thanks.

Larry Booker and I came out of the same church. I don't know him extremely well, but I have heard him preach a number of times, have eaten with him and know a lot of people who know him and have heard countless stories of his conversion and have known people who were in the bunch that was converted with him. I think he is a really good man. He just happens to be very conservative. I have a lot of respect for the man, I just don't agree with his views anymore. I usually refrain from spekaing anything when he is brought up, caught between my knowledge of him personally and my disagreement with his views. We can disagree without throwing stones.

[triumphant1]

Have you heard the sermon? I really felt like i tried to be as accuarte as possible and clarified wherever needed and necessary.
If this was his statements and he stands by it, how can it be called lies and an attack on him ?

I listened to the sermon...your posts about the sermon were accurate....
I don't feel you or I ever bashed it....

[Thad]

it just dawned on me......... ILG posting in Thad's Tab!! wow

[ILG]

it just dawned on me......... ILG posting in Thad's Tab!! wow

Shocking newsflash eh??? I usually tune in when it comes to LB.

[triumphant1]

Larry Booker and I came out of the same church. I don't know him extremely well, but I have heard him preach a number of times, have eaten with him and know a lot of people who know him and have heard countless stories of his conversion and have known people who were in the bunch that was converted with him. I think he is a really good man. He just happens to be very conservative. I have a lot of respect for the man, I just don't agree with his views anymore. I usually refrain from spekaing anything when he is brought up, caught between my knowledge of him personally and my disagreement with his views. We can disagree without throwing stones.

I used to preach revivals for him...he was always VERY GOOD to us...he is a hoot to be with...he is kind...

But when it comes to his convictions....you'd better not touch him...:hanky

[timlan2057]

BTW, I know the Phillips well and I don't believe for one minute Wanda said that... Like a lot of those guys do, they might have read that from the SAV version... (The Slightly Altered Version)

If Wanda Phillips said to Tommy Craft: "Oh Tommy, PLEASE don't let the UPC go the way we did on TV lest they make shipwreck!!!" - - -

I'll run around in front of this car dealership I work at in my underwear.

Now the more important question:

I don't have time to listen to this sermon online nor am I much interested.

Could someone tell me if Booker did indeed assert that Wanda Phillips told this to Craft?

[ILG]

I used to preach revivals for him...he was always VERY GOOD to us...he is a hoot to be with...he is kind...

But when it comes to his convictions....you'd better not touch him...:hanky

Well you have to admire that someone stays true to what they believe. Even if they are wrong! :) I think God rewards staying true to what you believe. We can't judge whether someone is sticking to the "old paths" for gain or because they really believe it. Hey, I believed it all TOTALLY for 16 years. I did what I thought I had to do. I can respect that. I just hate the division it causes that both sides blame the other for.

[rgcraig]

I listened to the sermon...your posts about the sermon were accurate....
I don't feel you or I ever bashed it....

Thanks for listening and reporting for those of us that can't listen right now.

I believe threads like this bring out the passion of some. I don't disrespect anyone for having their convictions and beliefs.

[Thad]

I listened to the sermon...your posts about the sermon were accurate....
I don't feel you or I ever bashed it....


i don't feel that you are or I did either yet Stedfast and other UCs seem to have taken it otherwise.

[rgcraig]

If Wanda Phillips said to Tommy Craft: "Oh Tommy, PLEASE don't let the UPC go the way we did on TV lest they make shipwreck!!!" - - -

I'll run around in front of this car dealership I work at in my underwear.

Now the more important question:

I don't have time to listen to this sermon online nor am I much interested.

Could someone tell me if Booker did indeed assert that Wanda Phillips told this to Craft?
It seems that was exactly what he was saying without saying the names as verfied by T1 that has listened to it.

I do not believe Wanda said that at all.

[triumphant1]

If Wanda Phillips said to Tommy Craft: "Oh Tommy, PLEASE don't let the UPC go the way we did on TV lest they make shipwreck!!!" - - -

I'll run around in front of this car dealership I work at in my underwear.

Now the more important question:

I don't have time to listen to this sermon online nor am I much interested.

Could someone tell me if Booker did indeed assert that Wanda Phillips told this to Craft?

LB never said her by name...he was talking about 1977 and the three friends. Those who know the history know that it was craft, phillips, and hamby.

He talked about the one who left and lost his church and alcoholism...(hamby)

He talked aboutth e one who stayed and then named him...(Craft)

He then said Craft went and talked with the other at their church (which no longer looks anything remoely apostolic) and the Wife, the wife, the wife, the wife (his emphasis) said......."don't let them do it, yada, yada, yada....) ( Has to be phillips...only phillips stills has a church and has a vocal wife)....

[ILG]

It seems that was exactly what he was saying without saying the names as verfied by T1 that has listened to it.

I do not believe Wanda said that at all.

But implying that Booker is intentionally twisting words for gain or really believing his own stuff is different.

[Thad]

If Wanda Phillips said to Tommy Craft: "Oh Tommy, PLEASE don't let the UPC go the way we did on TV lest they make shipwreck!!!" - - -

I'll run around in front of this car dealership I work at in my underwear.

Now the more important question:

I don't have time to listen to this sermon online nor am I much interested.

Could someone tell me if Booker did indeed assert that Wanda Phillips told this to Craft?


He said 2 preachers who left in '77 over TV. mark hanby's wife is remarried and is not in contact with too many people whereas wanda and ken still have connections. really, it's a no brainer

[rgcraig]

i don't feel that you are or I did either yet Stedfast and other UCs seem to have taken it otherwise.

Thad, it's their passion. When someone believes so deeply their convictions and beliefs they will protect them with all their passion. I don't fault them for that.

[Steadfast]

If you will take the time to listen to the sermon:

www.inlandlighthouse.com

"Protecting the Bean Patch"

You can authoritatlively say, "LB NEVER said in the sermon that he was "Leaving" the UPC....but since you havn't let me do it for you...

LB never said that he was leaving the UPC...only alluded to the fact that he might would 'seek other fellowship" and "would always fellowship the UC UPC whether they stay or leave"...but he didn't come right out and say, "I'm leaving."

I do think thet he left the impression that he might...and that he was rallying the troops around the importance of being holiness, oneness, Apostolics and not "UPC"....he certainly rallied them around him and not around the org....

In conversation with his he was FAR from saying he'd 'never' leave the UPC. However, he hadn't left it at the time and had been accused of it time and again on this very forum.

I suspect that he may, in fact, leave but I don't know that for sure. I was with Nate Wilson a few weeks ago and he said that the fellowship they were trying to facilitate was NOTHING that one would have to turn their license in to be a part of... but it didn't stop them from doing the whole 'NW leaves UPC' type things almost immediately.

I think the real difference, T1, is that I actually talk to these very people and preach meetings with them. Rumors don't mean much to me (and, by the way, thanks for your earlier post about just listening to the message and not the snide comments or rumors) as rumors seldom reflect the real truth.

These are good men who have convictions that are real. How can that be so wrong? The only way I can see that being so wrong is if you're an individual that hates the very principles they stand for.

Appreciate the post, T1.

P.S.: As far as not 'rallying the troops around the organization'? I've told my Church for 19 years now that we will build this Church around a relationship with God and a life within His principles. NEVER do I intend to build a Church around an organization comprised of humans with votes. God's principles were never given the option of a 'vote'.

[ILG]

[These are good men who have convictions that are real. How can that be so wrong? The only way I can see that being so wrong is if you're an individual that hates the very principles they stand for.
]

I think the majority here do not hate the principles that it stands for even if we disagree with how those principles should be applied. Unfortunatley, the ultra-con view, because of their very beliefs, must reject any other view. That is why the division is happening. I think God understands the division even though it is grievous. The key thing is that we all need to search our hearts and find out whether what we are doing is because we believe it or if we stand to gain from it. The latter is the one guilty of sin.

[Straightline]

If you folks want to discuss and defend it....why don't you just go to:

www.inlandlighthouse.com

and listen to the sermon....it is titled "Protecting the bean patch".

Thank you for the url, but I already knew where to find it. :bubble
My point is: QUOTES were promised in the original post, but no one will now say they were quotes. You seem to agree that thad's paraphrased version leaves much to be desired (why else send everyone to the url?). Not everybody has time to listen to online sermons.
Someone please provide the quotes....

Why read between the lines?
Insist on a
Straightline

[triumphant1]

In conversation with his he was FAR from saying he'd 'never' leave the UPC. However, he hadn't left it at the time and had been accused of it time and again on this very forum.

I suspect that he may, in fact, leave but I don't know that for sure. I was with Nate Wilson a few weeks ago and he said that the fellowship they were trying to facilitate was NOTHING that one would have to turn their license in to be a part of... but it didn't stop them from doing the whole 'NW leaves UPC' type things almost immediately.

I think the real difference, T1, is that I actually talk to these very people and preach meetings with them. Rumors don't mean much to me (and, by the way, thanks for your earlier post about just listening to the message and not the snide comments or rumors) as rumors seldom reflect the real truth.

These are good men who have convictions that are real. How can that be so wrong? The only way I can see that being so wrong is if you're an individual that hates the very principles they stand for.

Appreciate the post, T1.

P.S.: As far as not 'rallying the troops around the organization'? I've told my Church for 19 years now that we will build this Church around a relationship with God and a life within His principles. NEVER do I intend to build a Church around an organization comprised of humans with votes. God's principles were never given the option of a 'vote'.

I believe you and i do not disagree... I felt the same way just on the other side of the coin....I do not believe these men are bad men or whatever...I have been with them too and enjoyed my time.

I disagree with you guys...but I do not think you are bad. I also agree that the church should be built around relationship with God and NOT on an organization....so in this we agree as well.

[SDG]

If Wanda Phillips said to Tommy Craft: "Oh Tommy, PLEASE don't let the UPC go the way we did on TV lest they make shipwreck!!!" - - -

I'll run around in front of this car dealership I work at in my underwear.

Now the more important question:

I don't have time to listen to this sermon online nor am I much interested.

Could someone tell me if Booker did indeed assert that Wanda Phillips told this to Craft?

Talk about "one upsmanship" ....

I offered money ... and you offer a freak show.

[triumphant1]

Thank you for the url, but I already knew where to find it. :bubble
My point is: QUOTES were promised in the original post, but no one will now say they were quotes. You seem to agree that thad's paraphrased version leaves much to be desired (why else send everyone to the url?). Not everybody has time to listen to online sermons.
Someone please provide the quotes....

Why read between the lines?
Insist on a
Straightline

I have posted repeatedly that thad's account is accurate....can you read???

I gave the URL in hopes that you'd see that for yourself...

I gave some accurate quotes as well...but you obviously are blind to them as well....

[Steadfast]

i don't feel that you are or I did either yet Stedfast and other UCs seem to have taken it otherwise.

Thad, let me help you out here. I reiterate that my statement about half truths wasn't solely about this thread. Booker has been a favorite bashing target for many on the forum here... and its usually build around things that aren't totally accurate.

That being said (again) you simply have to know that anytime YOU (who has been repeatedly shot at) do the whole "He said: I thought he did / Their name isn't...: Well, my friend is the one who told me"" type stuff there are going to be 100 red flags fly up.

Regardless, even if your posts were totally accurate and well intended it's a fact that many of the responses were much less than 'well intended'. That, my friend, is something that will never sit well with me.

Hope that clears it all up!

[rgcraig]

So could someone call Booker and ask him if in fact TLC said Wanda told him that?

[rosebud]

You know. I have a hard time believing stuff like this. I am from one of the most backward UPC districts there is and I just don't hear stuff like this.

Believe it! It happened to my family, folks turned their backs on us when they saw us and would not speak to us even ones we considered our closest friends. Even my son who attended a UPC church at that time where he goes to school was told he was not welcomed back to our original church that we had left.

This kind of stuff is Lame and irritates the fire out of me

[Thad]

Thad, let me help you out here. I reiterate that my statement about half truths wasn't solely about this thread. Booker has been a favorite bashing target for many on the forum here... and its usually build around things that aren't totally accurate.

That being said (again) you simply have to know that anytime YOU (who has been repeatedly shot at) do the whole "He said: I thought he did / Their name isn't...: Well, my friend is the one who told me"" type stuff there are going to be 100 red flags fly up.

Regardless, even if your posts were totally accurate and well intended it's a fact that many of the responses were much less than 'well intended'. That, my friend, is something that will never sit well with me.

Hope that clears it all up!

okay, fair enough. and again i ask, did you hear the message?
If so, who do you think he was referring to ??? if it was not wanda thne who ?

[Thad]

So could someone call Booker and ask him if in fact TLC said Wanda told him that?



you know, that is not a bad suggestion- would that suffice the folks who are picking this thread apart ??

[Thad]

Believe it! It happened to my family, folks turned their backs on us when they saw us and would not speak to us even ones we considered our closest friends. Even my son who attended a UPC church at that time where he goes to school was told he was not welcomed back to our original church that we had left.

This kind of stuff is Lame and irritates the fire out of me


It is true Rosebud but people from other areas can't comprehend it. the south has a totally different vibe then the west. the west is wild and lives for a good gun fight. it's always been like that. they thrive on a rukus :ursofunny

[TRIPLE E]

What a solemn message!

[Thad]

What a solemn message!


Good morning TRIPPY

you stood staunchly against the TV resolution- so are you staying or pulling out ?? (been meaning to ask you)

[TRIPLE E]

Good morning TRIPPY

you stood staunchly against the TV resolution- so are you staying or pulling out ?? (been meaning to ask you)

in the valley of decision Thad

[Thad]

in the valley of decision Thad


i want to be the FIRST to know if you decide to leave! PM me before you post it

[MrsMcD]

Thad, it's their passion. When someone believes so deeply their convictions and beliefs they will protect them with all their passion. I don't fault them for that.

I don't fault them either but the organization isn't headed for destruction. That's something LB shouldn't be telling his saints if he did.

[LaGirl]

this thread REALLY took off FAST!!!!

[timlan2057]

Talk about "one upsmanship" ....

I offered money ... and you offer a freak show.


"Freak Show" is right.

"Freak" as in "Javon Kearse." :bubble

[rgcraig]

I don't fault them either but the organization isn't headed for destruction. That's not something LB should be telling his saints if he did.

I agree, but it's all relative.

To them, it would be destruction because of the strong convictions they hold.

[Buffy]

A friend of mine pastors a UPC church in one state, His father is a licensed minister in another state. The father told his son that he is leave the org and that if he(his son) did not that was the end of their relationship. Now, you can't tell me the father is in the right! Mark3:25 "If a house is divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand.
These men that are "leaving" are doing more harm than good, especially if it is splitting families!

[bishoph]

So could someone call Booker and ask him if in fact TLC said Wanda told him that?

I can tell you that I have heard this from TLC's own lips. I have no reason to question the veracity of his words, as I do not believe that he would lie.

[rgcraig]

A friend of mine pastors a UPC church in one state, His father is a licensed minister in another state. The father told his son that he is leave the org and that if he(his son) did not that was the end of their relationship. Now, you can't tell me the father is in the right! Mark3:25 "If a house is divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand.
These men that are "leaving" are doing more harm than good, especially if it is splitting families!

Now that is just downright sad.

[philjones]

Yeah, you are right. I don't consider myself charismatic. To me Charismatics run around the church with flags , very flakey and always talking about love ,love ,love.:D

Hey Sandra,

I am just sitting here enjoying your Christmas CD... Thanks again for a wonderful gift that continues to bless me!:santathumb

[bishoph]

A friend of mine pastors a UPC church in one state, His father is a licensed minister in another state. The father told his son that he is leave the org and that if he(his son) did not that was the end of their relationship. Now, you can't tell me the father is in the right! Mark3:25 "If a house is divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand.
These men that are "leaving" are doing more harm than good, especially if it is splitting families!

I agree that this is exceedingly sad! However I know that this is not the attitude of any of the men who are leading the Tulsa group.

[Sister Alvear]

Brother Booker is a good man and a good preacher. I pray for him and all involved.
I don´t think we should bash anyone...we should respect them, pray for them...and time works out a lot of things.

[Coffee99]

Comparing this vote to 9/11 or the death of JFK is nothing more than emotional manipulation and an ugly exercise in mind control over those who won't think for themselves in an objective, truth-based way.

Not cool.

[rgcraig]

I agree that this is exceedingly sad! However I know that this is not the attitude of any of the men who are leading the Tulsa group.

But this guy might be a part of that group or will they not allow that attitude to be a part of them?

[philjones]

Thad,

Larry's Name is still in the online directory,

http://wec.upci.org/churches/locator/search_last.asp

You obviously don't have access to that secret list of ALL ministers... not churches... in the UPCI. It takes clout to get that link... and The Thadmiester has the clout!:santathumb

[philjones]

I would pay money to the person who could verify the veracity of the alleged WP quote w/ Wanda herself.

Call her at Promiseland. She is very accessible. :)

[ChurchMouse]

Brother Booker is a good man and a good preacher. I pray for him and all involved.
I don´t think we should bash anyone...we should respect them, pray for them...and time works out a lot of things.

:highfive

[StillStanding]

Call her at Promiseland. She is very accessible. :)
He could have been referring to Mark Hanby's wife who divorced him!

All we know is that it was The WIFE THE WIFE THE WIFE!!

[ChurchMouse]

Brother Booker is a good man and a good preacher. I pray for him and all involved.
I don´t think we should bash anyone...we should respect them, pray for them...and time works out a lot of things.

Hey, Sis. Alvear, my family and I are planning to visit Bro. Holmes this coming weekend. Can't wait. Haven't seen them since campmeeting.. We are praying for you and your family.

[StillStanding]

OK! I listened to the sermon, and found Thad's post to be surprisingly accurate!! :D

I see this as a good conservative man who is over-reacting! This is a typical "hold the fort" sermon preached many times by conservative preachers. This man honestly believes what he is saying!

[chseeads]

I'm partway through listening to it, it's at the 'good part' right now...

I don't know why the big name guys that preach this kind of stuff are so high and heralded if this is the kind of stuff they preach. Good grief. (Yeah, I realize one message is not representative of all messages that they preach....) I've heard much better from much less 'famous.' :)

[philjones]

Larry Booker and I came out of the same church. I don't know him extremely well, but I have heard him preach a number of times, have eaten with him and know a lot of people who know him and have heard countless stories of his conversion and have known people who were in the bunch that was converted with him. I think he is a really good man. He just happens to be very conservative. I have a lot of respect for the man, I just don't agree with his views anymore. I usually refrain from spekaing anything when he is brought up, caught between my knowledge of him personally and my disagreement with his views. We can disagree without throwing stones.

I didn't know you were out of the Bartlesville Church! Your pastor was a target back when he was Youth President. Looking back I have often felt that he was too much rules and not enough relationship. Time has changed much of that opinion. I will never forget that he is the one who introduced me to singing Psalms 19: 7-10 as a worship song. I wept and still weep everytime I sing that song. It has moved me so. I do now understand some of your history better now.

[chseeads]

He could have been referring to Mark Hanby's wife who divorced him!

All we know is that it was The WIFE THE WIFE THE WIFE!!

That was a really good impression, but I don't think you said WIFE as many times as he did. :)

[pentecostisalive]

I'm partway through listening to it, it's at the 'good part' right now...

I don't know why the big name guys that preach this kind of stuff are so high and heralded if this is the kind of stuff they preach. Good grief. (Yeah, I realize one message is not representative of all messages that they preach....) I've heard much better from much less 'famous.' :)

It is not a Camp Meeting message, and obviously is not intended to be. Bro. Booker is one of the best Camp Meeting speakers around. But this message is intended to explain the actions that he is taking to his church.

In my opinion, he did a good job. When a line is moved, everything else often follows. All students of history will tell you that. It has happened many times.

[Neck]

Here is my opinion....

-I do not think the UPC is headed for destruction. I think it is wishful thinking of a few.

-I think he is speaking evangelistically when he says many ministers are upset. Let the final numbers speak for themselves.


You are on the Titanic and will be one to hear the entire song!

[Neck]

He could have been referring to Mark Hanby's wife who divorced him!

All we know is that it was The WIFE THE WIFE THE WIFE!!

Actually his first Gloria divorced him.

His second wife he divorced her.

As for the Lord Jesus Christ he has divorced Mark Hanby as well.

[chseeads]

It is not a Camp Meeting message, and obviously is not intended to be. Bro. Booker is one of the best Camp Meeting speakers around. But this message is intended to explain the actions that he is taking to his church.

In my opinion, he did a good job. When a line is moved, everything else often follows. All students of history will tell you that. It has happened many times.

I know it's not a campmeeting message. It wasn't much of a Biblical one either. :) Lots of stories, that was about the long and the short of it.

[StillStanding]

I went to his website to look at pictures of both the outside and inside of his church. Nowhere to be found is a picture or symbol of a cross!! :eek:

Is this christianity without the cross? It's definitely a church without a cross!

BTW, I never heard of Bro. Booker before I visited this forum. I'm sure he is a great man!

[Praxeas]

Did you Hear about Larry Booker's Latest controversial message???????

here are bits and pieces (quotes) taken from it.


give your opinion, good or bad so that we can discuss it.


Booker told his church this past sunday night about how the tv vote went - said the organization took a turn towards destruction. He also said he was suprised at how many ministers nationwide are not happy.


Booker went on to say that the day of the vote was such an emotional day of sadness just like when JFK was shot and when the towers were hit on 9/11. He got the same feeling when the vote passed as on 9/11.


It is interesting to note that the original vote against tv took place in Tulsa in 1955 - maybe that's why they picked Tulsa as the place to form the new organization - to make a statement?


Also, Tommy Craft went to see Ken Phillips before the vote and apparently Wanda Phillips pleaded with Tommy Craft saying "don't let the movement (upc) go the way we did in regards to television. TV will steal everything from you"

crying and screaming Booker said in his message "me and and many other good men refuse to go that route - we will stand for holiness"


gave an example of how the PAW lost its standards and holiness.


said he would still fellowship his close (ulta-con) friends that stay in the upc

I still don't get it....how does staying in the UPC mean they are not still standing for Holiness etc etc? They are still able to preach what they want. BTW I know of at least one UC that did not even go and vote..I wonder how many other UCs had that kind of apathy?

[Praxeas]

I went to his website to look at pictures of both the outside and inside of his church. Nowhere to be found is a picture or symbol of a cross!! :eek:

Is this christianity without the cross?

BTW, I never heard of Bro. Booker before I visited this forum. I'm sure he is a great man!
Not having an icon of a cross on or in a building does not mean Christianity with out the cross.

[The Closer]

Actually his first Gloria divorced him.

His second wife he divorced her.

As for the Lord Jesus Christ he has divorced Mark Hanby as well.
i sure hope that was meant TIC

i do not in any way agree with the steps that MH has taken in his life but to say that the Lord has divorced him would be against the Word of God imho

if i took your comments wrong i apologize but i was taken back when i read them

[StillStanding]

Not having an icon of a cross on or in a building does not mean Christianity with out the cross.

I was adding to my original post as you were typing this post! :)

All I can say is that the cross must not be of utmost importance. The cross is not the focus.

[Praxeas]

It is not a Camp Meeting message, and obviously is not intended to be. Bro. Booker is one of the best Camp Meeting speakers around. But this message is intended to explain the actions that he is taking to his church.

In my opinion, he did a good job. When a line is moved, everything else often follows. All students of history will tell you that. It has happened many times.
Really? Well wait a second...a line was moved against TV in the past right? And using your logic EVERYTHING should have followed....right? So if your logic is true, why is the line going the other direction now?

And, are you saying that on TV alone everything rests? If the UPC had not voted against TV in such absolute terms in the past, would the UPC by this time be allowing homosexual preachers etc etc??? I mean....if it's true everything else will follow as you put it?

[dizzyde]

That's too bad...sad day indeed, sounds like Oregon or typical West Coast style.

Amen to that!

[Praxeas]

I was adding to my original post as you were typing this post! :)

All I can say is that the cross must not be of utmost importance. The cross is not the focus.
Again, not having an icon of a cross inside or outside a building is not indicative of their view OF the cross in salvation...at least it shows they don't idolize the cross.

BTW the cross Jesus died on saves no one. It's his death on the cross that saves. It could have been a table of stone...it's not the cruel method that saves. It's not the wood or the fact that two beams bisect each other. It's him ON the cross.

So to truly be indicative, using what you said here, each church must have a cross with a bloody corpse on it hanging from the wall

[Neck]

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t201/Neckstadt/pastor-larry-booker.jpg

Pastor Larry Booker 1971 and Today:

:donuts

[dizzyde]

What?!?!? And ruin a good bashing? You've got to be kidding!

I know Larry Booker... I preach for him and am scheduled to be there again in a few months. SO MUCH of what is being said of the man is simply not true.

He's a man of convictions and depth who has the guts to stand by his convictions even if it makes him unpopular. Obviously that is not a very 'welcomed' thing among some of the AFF crowd.

If you don't share his convictions, fine. But why attack someone over something they have a conviction over? It simply shows the shallowness of some on this forum.

For the record, I have spoken to Bro. Booker at some length and have NEVER heard him trash one person by name. I've never heard him put ONE PERSON IN HELL over this resolution. His mentality is simply, "I don't agree and will find fellowship elsewhere to protect what I believe is best for my church."

Oddly enough, I don't see that mentality reciprocated on this thread... or forum much for that matter.

In regards to his license? He says he isn't sure what he'll do and will have to make up his mind when the time comes.

Those are the facts... Not that facts would matter to those who would rather carry a club to pummel than 'good intentions'.

Sad.

Brother, I appreciate your sentiments, but unless you have lived and breathed the politics in CA, pastored and tried to fellowship in this district, you really have no idea what we have lived with.

[StillStanding]

Again, not having an icon of a cross inside or outside a building is not indicative of their view OF the cross in salvation...at least it shows they don't idolize the cross.

BTW the cross Jesus died on saves no one. It's his death on the cross that saves. It could have been a table of stone...it's not the cruel method that saves. It's not the wood or the fact that two beams bisect each other. It's him ON the cross.

So to truly be indicative, using what you said here, each church must have a cross with a bloody corpse on it hanging from the wall

The icon of the cross has been the christian symbol of the crucifiction for hundreds of years. We know that the cross itself doesn't save us, but what the cross represents can save us. Since the cross icon is prevelent in most all Christian churches, there had to be a conscious effort to NOT include it on their facilities.

BTW, a lighthouse doesn't save us either!

[Praxeas]

The icon of the cross has been the christian symbol of the crucifiction for hundreds of years. We know that the cross itself doesn't save us, but what the cross represents can save us. Since the cross icon is prevelent in most all Christian churches, there had to be a conscious effort to NOT include it on their facilities.

BTW, a lighthouse doesn't save us either!
My point was and still is unchanged...NOT having the icon of a cross inside a building does not logically mean that church does not believe in the cross or does not emphasize it enough.

[Sister Alvear]

Hey, Sis. Alvear, my family and I are planning to visit Bro. Holmes this coming weekend. Can't wait. Haven't seen them since campmeeting.. We are praying for you and your family.]]


Such a beautiful place. Blessing to you all from Brazil.

[StillStanding]

My point was and still is unchanged...NOT having the icon of a cross inside a building does not logically mean that church does not believe in the cross or does not emphasize it enough.
One can also logically assume that a Christian church without the icon of the cross in it's newly built premises, has a focus other than on the cross.

I was minister of music at a church that built a new 1,200 seat worship center. We had a cross on the outside of the church, but not in the auditorium.

You wouldn't believe the complaints we heard from visitors that there wasn't a cross! In our baptistry area, we had a painting of a babbling brook. We had a plexiglass pulpit specially made that didn't include a cross. Oh how awful it was!!! :D I told people thaat we assumed that they saw the cross on our building as they entered the church property! :)

[mizpeh]

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t201/Neckstadt/pastor-larry-booker.jpg

Pastor Larry Booker 1971 and Today:

:donuts

So this is Pelathais' deep, dark secret! :girlpopcorn

[Dora]

I just wonder how many of these guys were piled in hotel rooms and lobbies watching the Clarence Thomas/Anita Hill confirmation debacle at General Conference???

[Dora]

I disagree with LB that the organization has taken a turn toward destruction. I think the organization will end up better.

I can’t imagine Wanda Phillips pleading with Tommy Craft about TV. If ministers are only advertising on TV, I don’t see what TV will take away from them. If anything, it will get the message out there that their church exist.

Hate to say it, but I think this was a complete fabrication IF the dear brother did hail this from the pulpit. Can't believe there is a tiny glimmer of truth to this statement.

[Dora]

I'm still wonder what's the "pay off?" Not a literal money pay-off, but where in the world is this kind of behavior getting them? Do they really think they are getting a leg up on holiness or in with a richer more prestigious group of ministers? More power? More personal accolades? A bigger mansion in heaven??? What is it???

[Enlightened]

I'm still wonder what's the "pay off?" Not a literal money pay-off, but where in the world is this kind of behavior getting them? Do they really think they are getting a leg up on holiness or in with a richer more prestigious group of ministers? More power? More personal accolades? A bigger mansion in heaven??? What is it???

Mainly the idea of giving in, or allowing something that was once looked down upon, whether it be worldy or not is only giving ground to the evil/world and will lead to more concessions down the road. His message regarding the bean field merely was to point out that giving up this ground is giving in...no matter how small it may be.

Whether you agree with the standard or not, he's preaching from conviction, and like my father, a man of his convictions will not be swayed. Why question it? He's still a man of God and I respect him.

[Barb]

Brother, I appreciate your sentiments, but unless you have lived and breathed the politics in CA, pastored and tried to fellowship in this district, you really have no idea what we have lived with.

Diz, I appreciate the fact that you have first hand experience with the political climate in CA, something I do not.

However, you do know that others are basing their opinions on their experiences with the men who will be founders of this new org...

Though not doubting you in the least, you can apppreciate I am sure that a lot of what some of us read here is foreign to us and not at all like the men we know.

[Jekyll]

Here is my opinion....

-I do not think the UPC is headed for destruction. I think it is wishful thinking of a few.

-I think he is speaking evangelistically when he says many ministers are upset. Let the final numbers speak for themselves.
The UPC as it seems to be heading, toward a certain split seems to be on shaky ground. Are fellowships strong? Absolutely. Are doctrines and local church governments solid? They are in place, being preached, and stable, whether in the UPC Boat or not.

The UPC as a thriving organization is facing a very uncertain future. The economics alone along with the exodus of ministers, missionaries, church/district fellowships are in the air. To give any guess of numbers whether supporting or not supporting whether leaving or staying would be erroneous and ignorant on both sides. NO ONE KNOWS what will be happening over the next year. One's opinion is as good as the next guy's or gal's. I definitely have my own. But anyone saying that there is numerical evidence supporting ANY outcome is grandiose.

Of the many ministers Bro. Booker has spoken with about this, I would have no doubt that many of them are upset. His fellowship of bretheren are those who would be upset with the result of this vote. Who are you to say this is evangelistical? Were you in on these discussions? Do you know final numbers?? You have a vote total, but, the margin of victory was less than 1.6% of the total voting population. Check the numbers? You would be wise to use another set of numbers when issuing this statement.

[Jekyll]

I'm still wonder what's the "pay off?" Not a literal money pay-off, but where in the world is this kind of behavior getting them? Do they really think they are getting a leg up on holiness or in with a richer more prestigious group of ministers? More power? More personal accolades? A bigger mansion in heaven??? What is it???
Can there be NO payoff?? Why will non members of an organization begrudge the members of that organization of its beliefs?

I see no one railing against the Masons, the Elks, or the Eagles for their little secret laws. I don't care what they do...why do the UPC exes care?

[HangingOut]

For the sake of redundancy, I would like to put a few cents worth in after listening to L. Booker’s “Bean Patch” message. Like a lot of you, I have had years of experience in both camps con and mod. I have to be perfectly honest when I say that the struggles with attitude and spirit are pretty equal. I know that LB is as sincere a man as can be in preserving the standards, but what I have observed and feel I have learned is that no matter where you set that bar, it doesn’t do that much for the sake of the individual but becomes more of something that labels the body as such. It certainly allows for a better way of keeping things shored up, but doesn’t make it any less likely to fall than the lesser stand.
The message had several areas begging for question, especially about the MH and KP departure. MH’s problems where issues unrelated to TV and KP has not done too bad from what I know in terms of growth. So for all the doom predicted, I didn’t hear any scenarios that depicted where the TV advertising might be in the near future. It was more an emotional plea at best.

[Thad]

A friend of mine pastors a UPC church in one state, His father is a licensed minister in another state. The father told his son that he is leave the org and that if he(his son) did not that was the end of their relationship. Now, you can't tell me the father is in the right! Mark3:25 "If a house is divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand.
These men that are "leaving" are doing more harm than good, especially if it is splitting families!


Buffy,


90% percent of the posters here will think you are making this up (been there many times). count me in the 10% that believes you.
we've witessed churches being publically disfellowshipped and the members told not to even greet the members from the neighboring church. thing is , they were BOTH UPC.

[Thad]

Actually his first Gloria divorced him.

His second wife he divorced her.

As for the Lord Jesus Christ he has divorced Mark Hanby as well.



And did you know that Gloria Married a UPC pastor fairly recently?
perhaps 2005-2006.He's from the Dallas area(name slips my mind right now).I believe he dropped out of UPC shortly after the marriage - caught tremendous flack for it

[rgcraig]

Buffy,


90% percent of the posters here will think you are making this up (been there many times). count me in the 10% that believes you.
we've witessed churches being publically disfellowshipped and the members told not to even greet the members from the neighboring church. thing is , they were BOTH UPC.

Thad, it's a small percentage that doesn't believe that's happening. The large percent knows it is.

I believe it's very hard for those that love this org to realize that there are people out there that will do just as Buffy's example shows. It's not the majority that feel this way, but there are many out there that do and it's silly to keep saying over and over that there aren't out there.

We can only speak for what we know. If we are only around people that don't feel that way, then it's easy to say no one feels differently.

[Jekyll]

For the sake of redundancy, I would like to put a few cents worth in after listening to L. Booker’s “Bean Patch” message. Like a lot of you, I have had years of experience in both camps con and mod. I have to be perfectly honest when I say that the struggles with attitude and spirit are pretty equal. I know that LB is as sincere a man as can be in preserving the standards, but what I have observed and feel I have learned is that no matter where you set that bar, it doesn’t do that much for the sake of the individual but becomes more of something that labels the body as such. It certainly allows for a better way of keeping things shored up, but doesn’t make it any less likely to fall than the lesser stand.
The message had several areas begging for question, especially about the MH and KP departure. MH’s problems where issues unrelated to TV and KP has not done too bad from what I know in terms of growth. So for all the doom predicted, I didn’t hear any scenarios that depicted where the TV advertising might be in the near future. It was more an emotional plea at best.
Growth is not always just measured by physical numbers.

[Thad]

Thad, it's a small percentage that doesn't believe that's happening. The large percent knows it is.

I believe it's very hard for those that love this org to realize that there are people out there that will do just as Buffy's example shows. It's not the majority that feel this way, but there are many out there that do and it's silly to keep saying over and over that there aren't out there.

We can only speak for what we know. If we are only around people that don't feel that way, then it's easy to say no one feels differently.

Renda, I remember 4 or 5 years ago trying to tell folks what was coming. we who lived here saw this coming long ago- most laughed and thought it was silly.

some of the preachers who are apart of this whole split are still telling folks that things that are circling around are ALL rumors and even up until recently, denied they were even leaving. some that said they were not leaving HAVE LEFT!!!
There have been talks of splitting off for 10 years. when asked about it, it was " I don't know what you are talking about"....... well, what do we see now???
I think that some are playing their cards.

[rgcraig]

Renda, I remember 4 or 5 years ago trying to tell folks what was coming. we who lived here saw this coming long ago- most laughed and thought it was silly.

some of the preachers who are apart of this whole split are still telling folks that things that are circling around are ALL rumors and even up until recently, denied they were even leaving. some that said they were not leaving HAVE LEFT!!!
There have been talks of splitting off for 10 years. when asked about it, it was " I don't know what you are talking about"....... well, what do we see now???
I think that some are playing their cards.
And I believe some of it is motivated by power - nothing more.

[Praxeas]

One can also logically assume that a Christian church without the icon of the cross in it's newly built premises, has a focus other than on the cross.

No one can not logically assume that anymore than one can logically assume that the Pastor is a pedophile because they have an outreach to children. If one can logically assume that (I hope everyone knows what happens when we assume things about others) then you should be able to show logically how this is true. Just asserting it over and over does not make it more true


I was minister of music at a church that built a new 1,200 seat worship center. We had a cross on the outside of the church, but not in the auditorium.

You wouldn't believe the complaints we heard from visitors that there wasn't a cross! In our baptistry area, we had a painting of a babbling brook. We had a plexiglass pulpit specially made that didn't include a cross. Oh how awful it was!!! :D I told people thaat we assumed that they saw the cross on our building as they entered the church property! :)

I see the fun in all this, but I hope you see my point. It's an assumption, but not based on logic. It might be asserted that some people might FALSELY assume a church that does not sport a huge cross above the pulpit does not preach the cross but there is no logical proofs that say that HAS to be the case,.

[Thad]

And I believe some of it is motivated by power - nothing more.


Really???? that is SHOCKING!!!


you may want to apologize

[Steadfast]

And did you know that Gloria Married a UPC pastor fairly recently?
perhaps 2005-2006.He's from the Dallas area(name slips my mind right now).I believe he dropped out of UPC shortly after the marriage - caught tremendous flack for it

Thad... your info is not quite correct about this. I know: my son in the gospel is Pastoring the Church the man you speak of left behind. His departure had nothing to do with his new wife but with his 'I changed my mind about what it takes to get to Heaven' message.

MUCH more to the story than catching 'tremendous flack' over it. In fact, I don't think he had a chance to catch flack... I actually think he bailed out just before he married the woman.

[chaotic_resolve]

The funny thing is LB wouldn't be much without his rantings against TV. The only reason he's known so well is because of his publishings and messages against television.

He should be thanking the UPC for both the debate and the vote for Res 4 that has given him a voice.

So my question is this: is LB going to allow TV and this vote on Res 4 to define his message and ministry, or is going to be better than that?

Thus far, this is dictating his ministry and message and that's pretty sad.

[crakjak]

Go to inlandlighthouse.com

Go to the sermoms online link

The sermon tiltled "protecting the bean patch".
It is only on audio...of coarse...LOL.

He told the story but left out the names...so you'd have to be knowledgeable of the the "friends" of TC to know it was the Phillips....he also talked abot Mark Hamby....

Thad's original post was a truthful (except with the names added) I just listened to the sermon....

Wow! What an appropiate name for the message, the BEAN PATCH. More emotional manipulation, and fear mungering.

[Thad]

Thad... your info is not quite correct about this. I know: my son in the gospel is Pastoring the Church the man you speak of left behind. His departure had nothing to do with his new wife but with his 'I changed my mind about what it takes to get to Heaven' message.

MUCH more to the story than catching 'tremendous flack' over it. In fact, I don't think he had a chance to catch flack... I actually think he bailed out just before he married the woman.


okay i didn't know the part about leaving the doctrine too.

[Jekyll]

The funny thing is LB wouldn't be much without his rantings against TV. The only reason he's known so well is because of his publishings and messages against television.

He should be thanking the UPC for both the debate and the vote for Res 4 that has given him a voice.

So my question is this: is LB going to allow TV and this vote on Res 4 to define his message and ministry, or is going to be better than that?

Thus far, this is dictating his ministry and message and that's pretty sad.
Too bad that this is all you get from his message.

He is known much more outside of this resolution issue and I think it's pretty sad that this is how you try to paint this man.

[anapko]

If the wrong UPCI preachers end up on tv it will be an embarrassment.

Ma'am...it's a chance we all have to take. Yes there will be some buffoons that will get on tv and make the Apostolic message look ridiculous. But...I've seen other religious broadcasting that wasn't Apostolic that looked just as ridiculous!

[Thad]

Wow! What an appropiate name for the message, the BEAN PATCH. More emotional manipulation, and fear mungering.


how is calling the sermon by this title "emotional" ?

[Praxeas]

If the wrong UPCI preachers end up on tv it will be an embarrassment.
If the wrong UPCI preachers end up on Radio it will be an embarrasment...if they end up on the internet....it will be an embarrasment..

Maybe the REAL problem with us is NOT TV....but the embarrasing ones among us and the UPC doing nothing about them.

BTW what if the RIGHT preachers get on TV?

[Jekyll]

Wow! What an appropiate name for the message, the BEAN PATCH. More emotional manipulation, and fear mungering.
And why are you still here? and it's mOngering.

[Thad]

Ma'am...it's a chance we all have to take. Yes there will be some buffoons that will get on tv and make the Apostolic message look ridiculous. But...I've seen other religious broadcasting that wasn't Apostolic that looked just as ridiculous!


I seriously doubt very many of our churches will even be able to afford advertising

[anapko]

I seriously doubt very many of our churches will even be able to afford advertising

That's because they haven't budgeted tv into their allowances. Many were solely intent on bringing it in to the " storehouse " that the vision became closeted! If anything, the tv resolution will cause some serious minded-soul-winning churches and pastors to expand their vision.

[crakjak]

What?!?!? And ruin a good bashing? You've got to be kidding!

I know Larry Booker... I preach for him and am scheduled to be there again in a few months. SO MUCH of what is being said of the man is simply not true.

He's a man of convictions and depth who has the guts to stand by his convictions even if it makes him unpopular. Obviously that is not a very 'welcomed' thing among some of the AFF crowd.

If you don't share his convictions, fine. But why attack someone over something they have a conviction over? It simply shows the shallowness of some on this forum.

For the record, I have spoken to Bro. Booker at some length and have NEVER heard him trash one person by name. I've never heard him put ONE PERSON IN HELL over this resolution. His mentality is simply, "I don't agree and will find fellowship elsewhere to protect what I believe is best for my church."
Oddly enough, I don't see that mentality reciprocated on this thread... or forum much for that matter.

In regards to his license? He says he isn't sure what he'll do and will have to make up his mind when the time comes.

Those are the facts... Not that facts would matter to those who would rather carry a club to pummel than 'good intentions'.

Sad.

Nonsense, this sermon is demonizing those that support the Res.4 period. Plus trying to denigrate the Phillips previous actions in the process, if he is only trying to do what is best for his church, then he should just preach his interpretation of the WORD and leave everyone else out of it. This is classic trying to make his light brighter by dimming someone else's.

BTW, neither Wanda or Kenneth were there to bring context to his declarations, so his use of that information is just wrong.

[Steadfast]

The funny thing is LB wouldn't be much without his rantings against TV. The only reason he's known so well is because of his publishings and messages against television.

He should be thanking the UPC for both the debate and the vote for Res 4 that has given him a voice.

So my question is this: is LB going to allow TV and this vote on Res 4 to define his message and ministry, or is going to be better than that?

Thus far, this is dictating his ministry and message and that's pretty sad.

Chaotic... this statment is so far off base it's not even funny. Larry Booker is one of the most sought after Campmeeting teachers / preachers in the movement. Has been for years.

Granted, he may be known to some for his 'stands' but to most they know him for the many meetings he's preached.

While it may, in fact, be your opinion I find it a very unrealistic one. His record of preaching these meetings for many, many years testify to his sucessful ministry.

He also has one of the very best Churches I've ever preached at. So many things I could say about those great people.

[anapko]

If the wrong UPCI preachers end up on Radio it will be an embarrasment...if they end up on the internet....it will be an embarrasment..

Maybe the REAL problem with us is NOT TV....but the embarrasing ones among us and the UPC doing nothing about them.

BTW what if the RIGHT preachers get on TV?

Exactly Prax...the problem that the ultra-against-tv crowd has is what if the right one gets on and portrays a postive Apostolic gospel. They can't get away from the old school of doing things that it just irks them to even think of change.

[CC1]

I know Wanda Phillips. Wanda Phillips is a friend of mine. Larry Booker is no Wanda Phllips. Er...wait a minute. Wrong saying.

Actually I know both TLC and Wanda and I trust both of them implicitly. I don't know what was or was not said but I can tell you that in my experience by the time something gets repeated a couple of times, even by good honest people, a word or two can be changed that greatly changes what was actually said.

[Steadfast]

Nonsense, this sermon is demonizing those that support the Res.4 period. Plus trying to denigrate the Phillips previous actions in the process, if he is only trying to do what is best for his church, then he should just preach his interpretation of the WORD and leave everyone else out of it. This is classic trying to make his light brighter by dimming someone else's.

BTW, neither Wanda or Kenneth were there to bring context to his declarations, so his use of that information is just wrong.

Crak... I totally disagree with you. I suspect you knew that already. It comes as no surprise that you would disagree with this good man's message... I mean, after all, aren't you the one that don't agree that people will go to Hell, too?

[Steadfast]

I know Wanda Phillips. Wanda Phillips is a friend of mine. Larry Booker is no Wanda Phllips. Er...wait a minute. Wrong saying.




:bubble

I wondered when that would come... hehehe

[Jekyll]

I know Wanda Phillips. Wanda Phillips is a friend of mine. Larry Booker is no Wanda Phllips. Er...wait a minute. Wrong saying.

Actually I know both TLC and Wanda and I trust both of them implicitly. I don't know what was or was not said but I can tell you that in my experience by the time something gets repeated a couple of times, even by good honest people, a word or two can be changed that greatly changes what was actually said.
You think my man Thad might have a few words mixed up??:ursofunny

:tattle

[Jekyll]

Crak... I totally disagree with you. I suspect you knew that already. It comes as no surprise that you would disagree with this good man's message... I mean, after all, aren't you the one that don't agree that people will go to Hell, too?
Plese feel free. I think this needs a little attention.

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=9782

[Thad]

You think my man Thad might have a few words mixed up??:ursofunny

:tattle


I was wondering when that would come Hehehe

[Coonskinner]

I'm still wonder what's the "pay off?" Not a literal money pay-off, but where in the world is this kind of behavior getting them? Do they really think they are getting a leg up on holiness or in with a richer more prestigious group of ministers? More power? More personal accolades? A bigger mansion in heaven??? What is it???


Sis, are you so thoroughly jaded and cynical that you think the only reason people do thinbgs are for money, accolades and prestige?

Is that what motivates you?

These men are walking away from a lot to remain true to their convictions.

As hard as it is for some of you more enlightened types to grasp, there are still men in this world who live according to principle and not expediency.

[Jekyll]

Sis, are you so thoroughly jaded and cynical that you think the only reason people do thinbgs are for money, accolades and prestige?

Is that what motivates you?

These men are walking away from a lot to remain true to their convictions.

As hard as it is for some of you more enlightened types to grasp, there are still men in this world who live according to principle and not expediency.
Great post...Yes yes yes! Very good, very good.

[bishoph]

The funny thing is LB wouldn't be much without his rantings against TV. The only reason he's known so well is because of his publishings and messages against television.

He should be thanking the UPC for both the debate and the vote for Res 4 that has given him a voice.

So my question is this: is LB going to allow TV and this vote on Res 4 to define his message and ministry, or is going to be better than that?

Thus far, this is dictating his ministry and message and that's pretty sad.

I'm not sure where you get your insight from, however, the reality is that LB is a quite well known and respected conference/campmeeting speaker in his own right. The TV issue is not what has made him popular/famous but rather his preaching and integrity to the message of truth that has garnered him much respect and some notoriety.

IMO it does not matter which side of the debate one may find themselves, the attacks on the character of men who stand on either side is unwarranted. Further, if one feels the need to launch these attacks, I think they are void of any substance on the issue and resort to such remarks out of ignorance or arrogance which are kissing cousins.

[Coonskinner]

The funny thing is LB wouldn't be much without his rantings against TV. The only reason he's known so well is because of his publishings and messages against television.

He should be thanking the UPC for both the debate and the vote for Res 4 that has given him a voice.

So my question is this: is LB going to allow TV and this vote on Res 4 to define his message and ministry, or is going to be better than that?

Thus far, this is dictating his ministry and message and that's pretty sad.

You have just shot your credibility in the foot.

Larry Booker is a great preacher and a very learned individual, widely read and very erudite.

His ministry has been sought after for years all across this fellowship, and I promise you he has a lot more subject matter in his repertoire than tv.

You are either speaking out of ignorance or deliberate obfuscation, because your statement is about as wrong as it can be.

[PastorD]

*** UPDATE*** MORE REVELATIONS ***


(((Attention Keith and Renda)))


In the church directory he is listed but on the online ministers directory https://wec.upci.org/ministers/default.asp

he is not listed

Also, regarding Tommy Craft and the phillips, he did not say their names, but said the two men who left in 1977 over tv.

I assumed hanby and phillips. Bookers said one of the preachers has gone down to nothing (that would be hamby correct?)

he said the other preacher has a large church, but looks nothing remotely apostolic - booker said this is the one tommy craft visited, so I assumed ken phillips

I also know that craft and phillips were good friends, phillips even came to the jackson homecoming last year.

So that is how I deduced ken and wanda phillips names - it maybe inaccurate, but who else would it be ??????


I haven't read the entire thread, but am far enough in to want to run down the street screaming!

I flew with TLC out of Tampa....have known him well for years since being an A+ Bible College student. We talked of KP and everyone....he never mentioned ANY thing like this. I know KP well, there is no truth to it whatsoever.

These ultra-cons think nothing of making up stories to fit their opinions. I really don't want to go as far as to call them liars, but I have a feeling Hell will have some long-sleeve wearing brethren to fellowship.

As far as Hanby is concerned, everyone lumps him in. Study the history.....he was as ultra as anyone. Long sleeves, white shirts, no cuff links...he was still sleeping with secretaries and girls in the youth group. His downfall was long before wanting to be on TV.

[Coonskinner]

I can tell you that I have heard this from TLC's own lips. I have no reason to question the veracity of his words, as I do not believe that he would lie.


This post was in response to this...


Quote:
Originally Posted by rgcraig
So could someone call Booker and ask him if in fact TLC said Wanda told him that?

It seems we have established by at least one witness that heard TLC say this.

[Jekyll]

I haven't read the entire thread, but am far enough in to want to run down the street screaming!

I flew with TLC out of Tampa....have known him well for years since being an A+ Bible College student. We talked of KP and everyone....he never mentioned ANY thing like this. I know KP well, there is no truth to it whatsoever.

These ultra-cons think nothing of making up stories to fit their opinions. I really don't want to go as far as to call them liars, but I have a feeling Hell will have some long-sleeve wearing brethren to fellowship.

As far as Hanby is concerned, everyone lumps him in. Study the history.....he was as ultra as anyone. Long sleeves, white shirts, no cuff links...he was still sleeping with secretaries and girls in the youth group. His downfall was long before wanting to be on TV.
So you are ready to condemn someone to hell as a liar over information reported here? From THIS forum? Wow...

[CC1]

You think my man Thad might have a few words mixed up??:ursofunny

:tattle

I know that if Wanda did tell TLC something in a personal conversation she would not appreciate it ending up in a sermon so thinly disguised as to who they are referring to that anybody that has been around awhile would know.

I will probably be seeing Wanda in a few weeks. Should I ask her about it? LOL!!!

[Thad]

I haven't read the entire thread, but am far enough in to want to run down the street screaming!

I flew with TLC out of Tampa....have known him well for years since being an A+ Bible College student. We talked of KP and everyone....he never mentioned ANY thing like this. I know KP well, there is no truth to it whatsoever.

These ultra-cons think nothing of making up stories to fit their opinions. I really don't want to go as far as to call them liars, but I have a feeling Hell will have some long-sleeve wearing brethren to fellowship.

As far as Hanby is concerned, everyone lumps him in. Study the history.....he was as ultra as anyone. Long sleeves, white shirts, no cuff links...he was still sleeping with secretaries and girls in the youth group. His downfall was long before wanting to be on TV.


If someone contacted Wanda and she states that what LB preached was untrue, what then ???
i got blasted into the firey furnace simply for stating the obvious.......

[Jekyll]

I know that if Wanda did tell TLC something in a personal conversation she would not appreciate it ending up in a sermon so thinly disguised as to who they are referring to that anybody that has been around awhile would know.

I will probably be seeing Wanda in a few weeks. Should I ask her about it? LOL!!!

So you are ready to condemn someone to hell as a liar over information reported here? From THIS forum? Wow...
This quote was not in response to you, but I hope that this is not a commonly accepted practice.

[Nahum]

So, how's everybody doing tonight?:donuts

Why is it that the mere mention of the initials LB engenders so much strife?

Talk about a controversial figure!


BTW, His books are not widely read.

Unless you consider the few hundred people dumb enough to slurp up that garbage a crowd.

[Coonskinner]

So, how's everybody doing tonight?:donuts

Why is it that the mere mention of the initials LB engenders so much strife?

Talk about a controversial figure!


BTW, His books are not widely read.

Unless you consider the few hundred people dumb enough to slurp up that garbage a crowd.

Color me dumb enough. :)

[StillStanding]

Can't you feel the love tonight? :ursofunny

[SDG]

So, how's everybody doing tonight?:donuts

Why is it that the mere mention of the initials LB engenders so much strife?

Talk about a controversial figure!


BTW, His books are not widely read.

Unless you consider the few hundred people dumb enough to slurp up that garbage a crowd.

So he's a highly requested campmeeting speaker .... but his books don't sell???

[Steadfast]

Sis, are you so thoroughly jaded and cynical that you think the only reason people do thinbgs are for money, accolades and prestige?

Is that what motivates you?

These men are walking away from a lot to remain true to their convictions.

As hard as it is for some of you more enlightened types to grasp, there are still men in this world who live according to principle and not expediency.

This post is better than just good... it's incredible. Too bad it won't be accepted by a few.

[Jekyll]

So, how's everybody doing tonight?:donuts

Why is it that the mere mention of the initials LB engenders so much strife?

Talk about a controversial figure!


BTW, His books are not widely read.

Unless you consider the few hundred people dumb enough to slurp up that garbage a crowd.
Here we go again...widely = what?

He is a nationally known figure. I'm sure that his books have been read wherever he has gone, by sheer curiosity

[Nahum]

The UPC as it seems to be heading, toward a certain split seems to be on shaky ground. Are fellowships strong? Absolutely. Are doctrines and local church governments solid? They are in place, being preached, and stable, whether in the UPC Boat or not.

The UPC as a thriving organization is facing a very uncertain future. The economics alone along with the exodus of ministers, missionaries, church/district fellowships are in the air. To give any guess of numbers whether supporting or not supporting whether leaving or staying would be erroneous and ignorant on both sides. NO ONE KNOWS what will be happening over the next year. One's opinion is as good as the next guy's or gal's. I definitely have my own. But anyone saying that there is numerical evidence supporting ANY outcome is grandiose.

Of the many ministers Bro. Booker has spoken with about this, I would have no doubt that many of them are upset. His fellowship of bretheren are those who would be upset with the result of this vote. Who are you to say this is evangelistical? Were you in on these discussions? Do you know final numbers?? You have a vote total, but, the margin of victory was less than 1.6% of the total voting population. Check the numbers? You would be wise to use another set of numbers when issuing this statement.

What would we consider a split?

200?

500?

Over 1000?

Can we really consider the departure of this small insignificant group of insurrectionists a split?

[bishoph]

I'll repeat part of my previous post. IMO it does not matter which side of the debate one may find themselves, the attacks on the character of men who stand on either side is unwarranted. Further, if one feels the need to launch these attacks, I think they are void of any substance on the issue and resort to such remarks out of ignorance or arrogance which are kissing cousins.

[SDG]

Color me dumb enough. :)

Aaron ... pass me your crayons.

[Thad]

So, how's everybody doing tonight?:donuts

Why is it that the mere mention of the initials LB engenders so much strife?

Talk about a controversial figure!


BTW, His books are not widely read.

Unless you consider the few hundred people dumb enough to slurp up that garbage a crowd.

That was really Bad

[Neck]

And did you know that Gloria Married a UPC pastor fairly recently?
perhaps 2005-2006.He's from the Dallas area(name slips my mind right now).I believe he dropped out of UPC shortly after the marriage - caught tremendous flack for it

I could start a truth thread on my life and times with the Mark David Hanby family from 1975.

I spent the entire school year in the same Public school class 5th grade with Todd Hanby.

I ran into them when the Genreal conference went back to Ft. Worth, maybe 1983-1984?

I can tell you when Gloria Hanby took Todd, Mark Jr. Myself and my younger brother Philip to the Go-kart track. We had a blast.

Gloria seemed sad...

It would be happy days for Gloria if she did find someone to be with...


Nathan Eckstadt

[Nahum]

Here we go again...widely = what?

He is a nationally known figure. I'm sure that his books have been read wherever he has gone, by sheer curiosity

Hilarious!:ursofunny

Nationally known figure?

What nation?

Do you mean he's known by a few hundred hardline Pentecostal ultra-whiners?

[SDG]

Hilarious!:ursofunny

Nationally known figure?

What nation?

Do you mean he's known by a few hundred hardline Pentecostal ultra-whiners?

How many district campmeetings does this equate to? 15, tops?

[Nahum]

So he's a highly requested campmeeting speaker .... but his books don't sell???

What does widely read mean?

Are we measuring by the very, very limited readership that he gleans from customers of PPH?

Hello!

That ship is sinking because nobody wants the junk they offer anyhow.

Widely read?

Gimme a break!

[Nahum]

How many district campmeetings does this equate to? 15, tops?

Maybe.

But I guess they are the really big ones like Kansas and Oklahoma.

[Jekyll]

What would we consider a split?

200?

500?

Over 1000?

Can we really consider the departure of this small insignificant group of insurrectionists a split?
and HOW do you know it will be that small? that big?? If you are buying into these nonsubjective estimations, you are in the same box you put these men in

[Thad]

I could start a truth thread on my life and times with the Mark David Hanby family from 1975.

I spent the entire school year in the same Public school class 5th grade with Todd Hanby.

I ran into them when the Genreal conference went back to Ft. Worth, maybe 1983-1984?

I can tell you when Gloria Hanby took Todd, Mark Jr. Myself and my younger brother Philip to the Go-kart track. We had a blast.

Gloria seemed sad...

It would be happy days for Gloria if she did find someone to be with...


Nathan Eckstadt

what are the 2 sons doing now? are either in ministry?
what do they think of their past life and all that has transpired, the upc? their dad, etc ?

[Steadfast]

I haven't read the entire thread, but am far enough in to want to run down the street screaming!

I flew with TLC out of Tampa....have known him well for years since being an A+ Bible College student. We talked of KP and everyone....he never mentioned ANY thing like this. I know KP well, there is no truth to it whatsoever.

These ultra-cons think nothing of making up stories to fit their opinions. I really don't want to go as far as to call them liars, but I have a feeling Hell will have some long-sleeve wearing brethren to fellowship.

As far as Hanby is concerned, everyone lumps him in. Study the history.....he was as ultra as anyone. Long sleeves, white shirts, no cuff links...he was still sleeping with secretaries and girls in the youth group. His downfall was long before wanting to be on TV.

In my opinion, this post pushes the limits. In fact, I think it's uncalled for to insinuate that good men standing for their convictions are Hell bound.

Perhaps the last element of good taste just flew out the window.

Sorry, friend... don't know you. But I do know that was uncalled for.

[StillStanding]

What does widely read mean?

Are we measuring by the very, very limited readership that he gleans from customers of PPH?

Hello!

That ship is sinking due to nobody wanting the junk that is offered anyhow.

Widely read?

Gimme a break!

PP, you're really pumped up tonight!!!!!

Who publishes Booker's books? If it's Word Aflame, will they drop it if he leaves the UPCI?

[bishoph]

How many district campmeetings does this equate to? 15, tops?

If I use you figures that would equate to more than 30% of the UPCI Camps. Thats pretty well known in my estimation.

[Nahum]

and HOW do you know it will be that small? that big?? If you are buying into these nonsubjective estimations, you are in the same box you put these men in


Here's an idea.

Call HQ and ask them how many cards they've recieved.

If it's less than 500 can we really consider this a split?

They will be replaced by spring no problem.

[Thad]

In my opinion, this post pushes the limits. In fact, I think it's uncalled for to insinuate that good men standing for their convictions are Hell bound.

Perhaps the last element of good taste just flew out the window.

Sorry, friend... don't know you. But I do know that was uncalled for.



Pastor D ???

[Steadfast]

Color me dumb enough. :)

Me too... I enjoyed his books.

What I didn't enjoy was another uncalled for statement.